Also merchandising is very important too!! Yogurt from Spaceballs was an expert on the subject: Spaceballs the T-shirt, Spaceballs the coloring book, Spaceballs the breakfast cereal, Spaceballs the lunchbox, and I’m sure I don’t need to mention *SPACEBALLS THE FLAMETHROWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* The kids love that one!!!
@@davidmcaninch4714 I will say I think it's an interesting subject. When it comes to bands, yes merchandising is crucial. But if as a venue, it can be a giant waste of money depending on how it operates. If you are a destination spot. Like you are open every weekend and people just go because they love the venue awesome. But my venue was only open for concerts. So no one was there because of the venue. It was for the band. So when we have a competing merch table it actually pissed off some bands. And they'd lay someone to man the booth all night and we sold close to nothing every night
I'm currently part of a small team running a lil bitty DIY venue. We're nowhere near needing all this info yet, but we are looking at expanding soon and this is all super important info!! Ty
Best advice I can say is branch out. Comic Con Events, comedians, whatever. Just get things in your venue and keep money flowing. The worst thing to see is a venue vacant on a friday night. Where is the venue located?
It's from experience like yourself. It's interesting when you work in a bar or a venue as a lower level employee. My boss had no grasp of reality of how things operated. He had experience as a touring bass player for many years back in the 80s/90s but it's amazing how little he knew about how venues worked. The lower level people see a lot of the day to day issues that make a venue go out of business. The owners typically just go by without any real clue as to why it's not working.
if I could love react this video, I would. you did such an amazing job at explaining so many processes and giving advice about them. I personally have experienced many of the stories you have shared about doing shows over the years. this video is the most detailed I've seen. the end when you had spoke about your friend and what you had to deal with your boss was so personal and powerful. I appreciate the time you took putting this together so well and sharing your experiences. cheers.
React away my friend! Thank you for the positive comment. I made some videos years ago and did a very immature job at explaining. I always felt I could of done better so I really wanted to put this out. You can see this isn't a booming youtube channel and I know it's not a topic that will bring in millions of views, but I know where you've been and know how it feels. It's a slimy industry and I just want to get information out there so people can understand.
Thank you so much for this video, it's a dream of mine to start my own music venue and you have given me so many valuable tools to begin planning. You seem like a really extraordinary guy.
Amena thank you for the kind words that is so kind of you. I am glad it has helped at least getting you thinking. I learned a lot in the short time I was at a concert venue. It's definitely a difficult industry. Have you started promoting shows? Or just putting on concerts at random places?
Thank you Casey!! This is awesome! I’m from Provo, Utah! We have a lot of venues here around town and they’re all very good at giving a lot of respect and having great hospitality for local bands. I’m hoping to start a venue here too, and this video was quite inspiring.
That is awesome Dallin! I wish I could say the area I'm in. It's a lot more of a how can I suck as much money out of you as possible and then I'll dispose of you.
Thank you for the positivity Ryan. I really truly hope it was helpful. The business is so competitive that no one likes to share information. So I wanted to try and get something out there for people.
Sammy I hope it was helpful! I struggled to find any information like this when I made that first video, and I know someone out there would benefit from it. Thank you for watching!
This was a great video. This sounds like an impossible industry to be in. My dream is to own my own venue and this was enlightening. The biggest question for me is the size of the venue to go with. Something small and more intimate or something like The Fillmore.
Honestly it's easier to start small. Way more room to grow and learn from. When you got a large venue it has more daily cost. Also it's good to start out doing concert promoting. renting a place that you can have a concert at. If you can start to really build events doing that then getting your own place is good
He was truly one of a kind. I could tell lots of stories about Denny. He stood up for what was right. He was partners with a guy for years. Found out the guy was scraping money off the tickets. Lying to the bands on how many they sold then pocketing the money. So Denny left him and went on his own. In this industry I haven't met a lot of people who would have done that (sadly). He was actually just the booking agent they hired. The venue I was at had three owners. Which caused some pretty sitcom like days. Not so funny when you are in it, but the owner who was there every day was... a character to say the least. He liked to belittle the employees, to make himself feel like a tough guy. The sad thing is they fired Denny, because they wanted money NOW. Denny explained to them that being successful in this industry means longterm investments. You won't be making large profits until you put in the work. Originally they agreed, but my boss was a reactionary guy. He fired Denny hired (ironically the Denny's former partner). What really made me agree is that my boss spent months telling everyone that Denny was just out of it and couldn't do it anymore. He ran his name through the mud because he was an impatient child who didn't understand business. The place went under QUICK! After they fired Denny I got out about 6 months later. They only lasted another year after that. It was sad, it could of been a great venue. But like I compared in the end of the video. People don't always look at the numbers. They want glory or the big acts they love, and they end up losing money left and right until they can't do it anymore. (I will say the other two owners were good guys, they just weren't as involved in the day to day as they should of been. They were way smarter, and would of kept that place running smoothly)
@@sodapopizze8367 just start small. Keep your cost low and try to build up a following with local bands and make sure you have a market of people who want to come to shows.
Honestly finding the venues a decent distance from you is good. I'd look up regularly places in chicago, st. louis, indianapolis, Des Moine... its a lot of work but it really helps when you are first starting out. Finding those groups who look like they'd like to get more gigs. Just check their rosters, espcially the ones a ways in advance. Besides that Pollstar might not be super updated with their tour schedule. But it's possible. Also just being aware of what up and coming bands are out there. Denny (who I talk about in the video) was a master and just looking up bands on youtube and finding these unknown artists. I will never forget this band that had a song called "pumping blood" and he said they are going to go somewhere. video had maybe 2,000 view. A year later that song was on a panteen commercial. Millions of views on that video after that. Eventually you will get connections with bands and they will start letting you know when they are looking to book venues. That's when you know you are doing well. But it honestly takes a long time to get to that point. You just can't give up. I think the venues who just get tired and stop trying to find artists on their own are the ones who fall quickly.
Justin, it warms my heart you including Denny. What an incredible man who helped so many musicians throughout his life. But there are a lot of those unknown heroes out there. I hope this was helpful Justin! Thank you for watching!
hey bro! i have your next drink if you happen to be in kansas i learned a lot about you, plust collective soul!!! i love it, you obviously have talent bro!
Dude that is so kind of you! I honestly don't have a crazy amount of experience but I learned a lot from Denny, that guy was amazing and just knew his stuff. I went to work every day with him and took in every single word like it was my final exam paper or something. Please let me know if you are using any of this and if you are booking grounds or not. Best of luck to you Dane of GHRecords!
What would I be looking at if the venue was held once a year, possibly a 3 day show, and multiple acts? 100,000+ attendance. How would anyone go about starting this?
If you've never promoted in the past. To be frank, you're gonna lose every dime to your name if you try to pull this off from the start. I've seen if happen time after time. It's like a kid learning to play guitar. You can't start with Eruption by Van Halen. You have to learn a G chord first. Or at least how to play a couple strings and get your placement correct on the neck. Those type of events have to start small. Start with local acts. Don't try and grab Jellyroll or some giant name year one. You'll probably lose all your money, and if the event is a disaster your looking at lawsuits up the rear. So you have to start out small. Get comfortable running events. And as you go you can build up to a festival. Also most of those people who run festivals have the names because they've built relationships with them for years and years. If you have been doing it awhile that is a different story.
I use to book tours which I loved doing it. Overall, and I would not quote me on this but deal making I probably had an 80%+, however issuing contracts...that's when promoters would still want to do the show but started dropping the ball. Always tried to make things fair, where both the artist & promoter would be able to profit...that said while not accounting for alcohol sales. In my mind...you as a venue or promoter still took a risk. Any idea why some of them may have canceled last minute ? curious what you may have to say because talent fees versus venue cap...always under 50% of avail tickets. However, I would also ask for a percentage on top of the guarantee, which I'd always aim for 50% after expense...that way there's still incentive. Talent fees weren't much, the artists were signed with merch in physical store fronts. Extremely different from what you mentioned someone asking to play a show you booked and wanting 2k...without. Part of me has always wondered...were those that canceled...doing so because they went from in their mind fantasy to reality? in turn being overwhelmed? While I'm sure there's things I could've done better...it's just a little odd how they seemed excited, willing but in the end just all talk. I even routed the tours intentionally so the stops were never to far apart so the talent fee without percentage they'd still get there and have a chance to sell merch. That said, when I say 80% that being, if someone got back without outright saying no, usually ended up with a deal being solidified.
Just curious because someone I worked with I agreed for them to be paid 700 however it was several states away from where they were from, which if I remember correctly resulted in dates to/from also. Never had an artist complain about the talent fees I was getting but kept having promoters end up canceling and more often then not they didn't have much or any prior experience promoting. Some promoters, integrity wise I was pretty confident didn't need a contract, those I feel that way towards...never canceled. When agreeing to that though originally was suppose to be a one off...given that's what was being offered plus the travel...had no issue with it. If you were a local venue/promoter and they couldn't even bring in that I wouldn't feel right agreeing.
@@caseydoremus5324 By that I mean take a 10 day tour. I contact 10 promoters, they all show interest...8 of the 10 I would get the terms that I was looking for whereas the other 2 of 10...either I would have to agree to their counter or either continue negotiating with a different promoter from the same area or find a new contact. If not, either it turns into a door deal with no talent fee or an off day.
@@caseydoremus5324 8 of 10 shows able to get terms I felt were fair, the other 2 of 10 having to accept a counter or continue negotiating with other promoters. Overall the first few tours, more so helping bands find shows. One of the first only roughly 45% of dates had shows whereas the last several I did 95%, where the 5% remaining had preplanned possibility of off dates that could be filled.
You dont even know how much this video helped me as I'm entering event management with a passion for concerts! Thank you for sharing the info and template, absolutely loved the video from start to finish! :)
I am really glad it helped! When I was working at the venue I couldn't find a single video about promoting. So I wanted to make this because I think the more information out there the more music can thrive! Please let me know what events you are doing I love to see what people are doing
That's all I know haha, I just knew there wasn't a lot of honest information out there about this stuff and wanted to share what I've learned. Thank you for the kind words!
Also merchandising is very important too!! Yogurt from Spaceballs was an expert on the subject: Spaceballs the T-shirt, Spaceballs the coloring book, Spaceballs the breakfast cereal, Spaceballs the lunchbox, and I’m sure I don’t need to mention *SPACEBALLS THE FLAMETHROWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* The kids love that one!!!
@@davidmcaninch4714 I will say I think it's an interesting subject. When it comes to bands, yes merchandising is crucial. But if as a venue, it can be a giant waste of money depending on how it operates. If you are a destination spot. Like you are open every weekend and people just go because they love the venue awesome. But my venue was only open for concerts. So no one was there because of the venue. It was for the band. So when we have a competing merch table it actually pissed off some bands. And they'd lay someone to man the booth all night and we sold close to nothing every night
I've been a promoter for 15 years. this video is fantastic
Thanks for the positive vibes again Ryan! I really appreciate it. Where are you located? I'd love to hear about your experience.
@@caseydoremus5324 I'm in Spokane, WA and have been an independent promoter for 15 years now booking concerts at various small clubs over the years
@@ryan2flyin That is awesome! I appreciate your positive comment especially with your experience!
I'm currently part of a small team running a lil bitty DIY venue. We're nowhere near needing all this info yet, but we are looking at expanding soon and this is all super important info!! Ty
Best advice I can say is branch out. Comic Con Events, comedians, whatever. Just get things in your venue and keep money flowing. The worst thing to see is a venue vacant on a friday night. Where is the venue located?
Thank you! This answer questions I didn't even know I had.
Great video, thank you all the way from Dublin!
@@DAVIDBLACOE greetings! That's so cool. It's amazing to me that I get to interact with people in other countries
This was an excellent video. Thank you very much.
Thank you!
Awesome video, I work at a bar and you told the story perfectly.
It's from experience like yourself. It's interesting when you work in a bar or a venue as a lower level employee. My boss had no grasp of reality of how things operated. He had experience as a touring bass player for many years back in the 80s/90s but it's amazing how little he knew about how venues worked.
The lower level people see a lot of the day to day issues that make a venue go out of business. The owners typically just go by without any real clue as to why it's not working.
Thanks for everything! Especially the copy-able spreadsheet
Of course!
Your video is so good and so well explained! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! 😇🙏🎶
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thank you for watching!
if I could love react this video, I would.
you did such an amazing job at explaining so many processes and giving advice about them. I personally have experienced many of the stories you have shared about doing shows over the years. this video is the most detailed I've seen. the end when you had spoke about your friend and what you had to deal with your boss was so personal and powerful.
I appreciate the time you took putting this together so well and sharing your experiences. cheers.
React away my friend!
Thank you for the positive comment. I made some videos years ago and did a very immature job at explaining. I always felt I could of done better so I really wanted to put this out. You can see this isn't a booming youtube channel and I know it's not a topic that will bring in millions of views, but I know where you've been and know how it feels. It's a slimy industry and I just want to get information out there so people can understand.
@@caseydoremus5324 you are good dude! I really liked this video and I'm glad I found it
Thank you so much for this video, it's a dream of mine to start my own music venue and you have given me so many valuable tools to begin planning. You seem like a really extraordinary guy.
Amena thank you for the kind words that is so kind of you. I am glad it has helped at least getting you thinking. I learned a lot in the short time I was at a concert venue. It's definitely a difficult industry. Have you started promoting shows? Or just putting on concerts at random places?
@@caseydoremus5324 not yet but I definitely want to!
Thank you Casey!! This is awesome! I’m from Provo, Utah! We have a lot of venues here around town and they’re all very good at giving a lot of respect and having great hospitality for local bands. I’m hoping to start a venue here too, and this video was quite inspiring.
That is awesome Dallin! I wish I could say the area I'm in. It's a lot more of a how can I suck as much money out of you as possible and then I'll dispose of you.
Thank you so much for sharing this! Just watch the video and loved it. Using the sheet now to work on a new project.
Looking forward to hearing more about what you got going on Chaez! Please talking to you the other day
This video is SO good, thank you
Thank you for the positivity! I hope it helps
10/10. Thanks for taking the time and making this. Very in depth
Thank you for the positivity Ryan. I really truly hope it was helpful. The business is so competitive that no one likes to share information. So I wanted to try and get something out there for people.
Great video 👊 thanks for all the insight
My pleasure I hope it helps
Unreal. Thank you!!!
Of course!
Thanks for making this video!
I hope it helps!
Amazing, thank you so much for sharing. Loved this from start to finish ❤
I'm glad you did, I wanted to do it justice. There is so much to it. Thank you for watching!
By far one of the best annd most helpful videos, thank you Casey!
Thank you I really appreciate the positive feed back. It took some time but it was well worth it!
Very insightful and helpful video, thank you!
Thank you for your postive vibes. I hope it does help some people.
Great video... I have a property wanting to start some type of outdoor music venue. Space is about 2.5 acres. A lot of good info Thanks
I'm glad it can help
This was truly In depth! Appreciate the work
Thank you! I hope it helps people. That's all I wanted it to be
Yea, man. Thanx. Good looking out 💪🏾🙏🏾
Thanks man and best of luck!
This was a very good and helpful video! Thank you so much for sharing it.
💥BOOM!!!💥™
My pleasure. I'm glad it helped!
thanks for the insight man !!
Sammy I hope it was helpful! I struggled to find any information like this when I made that first video, and I know someone out there would benefit from it. Thank you for watching!
So much information! Thank you
I just hope it helps! Thank you so much for watching!
Very helpful video thanks Casey!
Thank you Jason. I really hope so. I know it's a bit long winded but I really wanted to give every side of the venue world in this.
This was a great video. This sounds like an impossible industry to be in. My dream is to own my own venue and this was enlightening. The biggest question for me is the size of the venue to go with. Something small and more intimate or something like The Fillmore.
Honestly it's easier to start small. Way more room to grow and learn from. When you got a large venue it has more daily cost. Also it's good to start out doing concert promoting. renting a place that you can have a concert at. If you can start to really build events doing that then getting your own place is good
Thank you man, really really really providential.
Raul, happy that it can be helpful. I knew this wouldn't be a popular video, but i know it can help some people
You mentioned Peoria. I live in Springfield and have been to a few venues in Peoria. Do you live there now?
yes! I am still in the area.
aw man i’m sorry about your boss he seemed awesome !
He was truly one of a kind. I could tell lots of stories about Denny. He stood up for what was right. He was partners with a guy for years. Found out the guy was scraping money off the tickets. Lying to the bands on how many they sold then pocketing the money. So Denny left him and went on his own. In this industry I haven't met a lot of people who would have done that (sadly).
He was actually just the booking agent they hired. The venue I was at had three owners. Which caused some pretty sitcom like days. Not so funny when you are in it, but the owner who was there every day was... a character to say the least. He liked to belittle the employees, to make himself feel like a tough guy. The sad thing is they fired Denny, because they wanted money NOW. Denny explained to them that being successful in this industry means longterm investments. You won't be making large profits until you put in the work. Originally they agreed, but my boss was a reactionary guy. He fired Denny hired (ironically the Denny's former partner). What really made me agree is that my boss spent months telling everyone that Denny was just out of it and couldn't do it anymore. He ran his name through the mud because he was an impatient child who didn't understand business. The place went under QUICK!
After they fired Denny I got out about 6 months later. They only lasted another year after that. It was sad, it could of been a great venue. But like I compared in the end of the video. People don't always look at the numbers. They want glory or the big acts they love, and they end up losing money left and right until they can't do it anymore. (I will say the other two owners were good guys, they just weren't as involved in the day to day as they should of been. They were way smarter, and would of kept that place running smoothly)
i want to learn how to do this.
this year, this goal has been bothering me so much like its a calling…
@@sodapopizze8367 just start small. Keep your cost low and try to build up a following with local bands and make sure you have a market of people who want to come to shows.
What research sources do you recommend for finding 'passing dates' in your area? PollStar
Honestly finding the venues a decent distance from you is good. I'd look up regularly places in chicago, st. louis, indianapolis, Des Moine... its a lot of work but it really helps when you are first starting out. Finding those groups who look like they'd like to get more gigs. Just check their rosters, espcially the ones a ways in advance.
Besides that Pollstar might not be super updated with their tour schedule. But it's possible.
Also just being aware of what up and coming bands are out there. Denny (who I talk about in the video) was a master and just looking up bands on youtube and finding these unknown artists. I will never forget this band that had a song called "pumping blood" and he said they are going to go somewhere. video had maybe 2,000 view. A year later that song was on a panteen commercial. Millions of views on that video after that.
Eventually you will get connections with bands and they will start letting you know when they are looking to book venues. That's when you know you are doing well. But it honestly takes a long time to get to that point. You just can't give up. I think the venues who just get tired and stop trying to find artists on their own are the ones who fall quickly.
Thanks Casey (and Denny)!
Justin, it warms my heart you including Denny. What an incredible man who helped so many musicians throughout his life. But there are a lot of those unknown heroes out there.
I hope this was helpful Justin! Thank you for watching!
hey bro! i have your next drink if you happen to be in kansas
i learned a lot about you, plust collective soul!!! i love it, you obviously have talent bro!
Dude that is so kind of you! I honestly don't have a crazy amount of experience but I learned a lot from Denny, that guy was amazing and just knew his stuff.
I went to work every day with him and took in every single word like it was my final exam paper or something. Please let me know if you are using any of this and if you are booking grounds or not. Best of luck to you Dane of GHRecords!
@@caseydoremus5324 hell yeah!
Awesome video!
Thank you so much brian!
Pollstar 3:00
Spreadsheet Wages @ 7:51
What would I be looking at if the venue was held once a year, possibly a 3 day show, and multiple acts? 100,000+ attendance. How would anyone go about starting this?
If you've never promoted in the past. To be frank, you're gonna lose every dime to your name if you try to pull this off from the start. I've seen if happen time after time. It's like a kid learning to play guitar. You can't start with Eruption by Van Halen. You have to learn a G chord first. Or at least how to play a couple strings and get your placement correct on the neck.
Those type of events have to start small. Start with local acts. Don't try and grab Jellyroll or some giant name year one. You'll probably lose all your money, and if the event is a disaster your looking at lawsuits up the rear. So you have to start out small. Get comfortable running events. And as you go you can build up to a festival.
Also most of those people who run festivals have the names because they've built relationships with them for years and years. If you have been doing it awhile that is a different story.
Why so many rental costs...said it was a industrial printer...so what were you printing to need that.
running a business. It adds up quick
Where would I be able to go to get access to the Google sheets spreadsheet? Thanks.
link in the description
I use to book tours which I loved doing it. Overall, and I would not quote me on this but deal making I probably had an 80%+, however issuing contracts...that's when promoters would still want to do the show but started dropping the ball. Always tried to make things fair, where both the artist & promoter would be able to profit...that said while not accounting for alcohol sales. In my mind...you as a venue or promoter still took a risk. Any idea why some of them may have canceled last minute ? curious what you may have to say because talent fees versus venue cap...always under 50% of avail tickets. However, I would also ask for a percentage on top of the guarantee, which I'd always aim for 50% after expense...that way there's still incentive. Talent fees weren't much, the artists were signed with merch in physical store fronts. Extremely different from what you mentioned someone asking to play a show you booked and wanting 2k...without. Part of me has always wondered...were those that canceled...doing so because they went from in their mind fantasy to reality? in turn being overwhelmed? While I'm sure there's things I could've done better...it's just a little odd how they seemed excited, willing but in the end just all talk. I even routed the tours intentionally so the stops were never to far apart so the talent fee without percentage they'd still get there and have a chance to sell merch. That said, when I say 80% that being, if someone got back without outright saying no, usually ended up with a deal being solidified.
Just curious because someone I worked with I agreed for them to be paid 700 however it was several states away from where they were from, which if I remember correctly resulted in dates to/from also. Never had an artist complain about the talent fees I was getting but kept having promoters end up canceling and more often then not they didn't have much or any prior experience promoting. Some promoters, integrity wise I was pretty confident didn't need a contract, those I feel that way towards...never canceled. When agreeing to that though originally was suppose to be a one off...given that's what was being offered plus the travel...had no issue with it. If you were a local venue/promoter and they couldn't even bring in that I wouldn't feel right agreeing.
@@wertyghjkl-fc3dx what do you mean by you had an 80%+?
@@caseydoremus5324 By that I mean take a 10 day tour. I contact 10 promoters, they all show interest...8 of the 10 I would get the terms that I was looking for whereas the other 2 of 10...either I would have to agree to their counter or either continue negotiating with a different promoter from the same area or find a new contact. If not, either it turns into a door deal with no talent fee or an off day.
@@caseydoremus5324 Meaning 8 out of 10 able to get terms I felt were fair without having to negotiate with a different promoter.
@@caseydoremus5324 8 of 10 shows able to get terms I felt were fair, the other 2 of 10 having to accept a counter or continue negotiating with other promoters. Overall the first few tours, more so helping bands find shows. One of the first only roughly 45% of dates had shows whereas the last several I did 95%, where the 5% remaining had preplanned possibility of off dates that could be filled.
I'm from Peoria IL, what venue did you work at??
It was Limelight Eventplex...after I left is was sold and turned into Monarch Music Hall... now it's just abandoned
Where do you work now?
You dont even know how much this video helped me as I'm entering event management with a passion for concerts! Thank you for sharing the info and template, absolutely loved the video from start to finish! :)
I am really glad it helped! When I was working at the venue I couldn't find a single video about promoting. So I wanted to make this because I think the more information out there the more music can thrive! Please let me know what events you are doing I love to see what people are doing
SUper informative, thank you so much for covering these basics!
That's all I know haha, I just knew there wasn't a lot of honest information out there about this stuff and wanted to share what I've learned. Thank you for the kind words!
why not put a second stage in an the type of wall you see in gyms/cafes...least then smaller promoters might be a bit more willing.
do you mean dividers for the room? To make it smaller?