While these hooks you; there are other things that can make your track sound ameteur. Let me explain in this video: ruclips.net/video/YqaLRk2PyAg/видео.html
Those things I tend to do sometimes: 1. Let the track play and do some other stuff, like cleaning your studio. Sometimes I begin to humm the 'missing' notes. 2. Use Riffer for melodies in a specific key and scale 3. Use the vst from Magenta (uses a neuronal net [tensorflow] to create or iterate over existing midi notes) and cherry pick the melodies 4. When having an Idea, I record it any where I am 5. Use a different instrument to play the melody. (Guitar, Bass, Different Synth, well even different vst-preset)
One thing that's always fascinated me is how often the song I like least on an album ends up becoming my favourite and I think it's important not to throw out "bad ideas" without giving them a decent chance.
I think is related to accessibility. Some songs are not quite accessible but still pretty catchy so they first sound pretty weird but get stuck in your head until you love it. Had this with Radiohead and King Crimson e.g.
Like the distinction between good / catchy. I like the overlap and analysis but I like also to think that caring to achieve catchiness is overrated and formulaic and limiting. Catchy combined w surprise I suppose is a decent compromise.
Excellent video! I've heard the bit about a good melody being easy to hum before. The part about being able to whistle is both genius and true. Well done!
Back in the distant past, pop stars would aspire to writing melodies that the milkman would whistle. When there were fewer cars on the road, you'd literally hear the milkman whistling songs (like Burt Bacharach's "Magic Moments" or The Beatles' "Eleanor Rugby") as he drove his electric milkfloat up the street at 7:30 in the morning. Later on, when milkmen more or less ceased to exist, my dream was to write a riff/bassline that could be chanted by football fans. Good examples that actually happened are "No Limits" (2 Unlimited), "Seven Nation Army" (White Stripes), and "Kernkraft 400" (Zombie Nation). All the above are easy to play on a keyboard, and even easier to hum or whistle.
Nice analysis thanks Alice - I love your enthusiasm! I was sort of hoping you’d say something about harmony - as in playing with tension and release against the harmonic structure. I find that’s where the really juicy stuff lies! Though your videos are lovely glimpses into a much bigger world. Thank you.
5:59 The coordinated movement up and down here is super interesting because it's something you are really not supposed to do according to the rules of counterpoint. I guess the thing is that counterpoint is not at all trying to be catchy and it is more about the vibe of being extremely balanced while in motion than any of the phrases?
That makes sense, counterpoint is designed to ensure that as the piece moves through its harmonic development the perceived strength of the sound is never compromised by unbalanced tonal relationships. But a phrase that might unbalance the overall body of a choral or orchestral piece could still for another reason be pleasing to the ear
I write a melody, and leave it to one side. go away and do other things. if after a fair amount of time I am still humming that melody, I know it works. Otherwise, it gets pushed to one side and I come up with something else until it sticks.
When I'm stuck and having difficulty finding a solid melodic guitar or bass line, I will move over to the keyboard and select a mode (often times randomly by rolling a 10 sided die to select a mode/scale) and then use little Post-it note stickers to mark off each individual note/key from that mode on the keyboard, in or around the key center of the tune I'm working on. Then I just start tapping stuff out (finger drums style) using only those keys I marked. If I'm not feelin it, roll again and switch modes. It sort of pulls me outside of my comfort zone and pushes my tunes into new sounds and styles that I wouldn't otherwise come up with by just noodling it out on the guitar. Sharing my technique with other musicians results in many disappointed eye-rolls, especially from the keys playin' folks; but it has consistently worked for me time and time again. It's also SO much fun for me that many times I will start a new song from scratch by rolling two dice (d10 for the scale/mode & d12 for the key) and tap out a couple melodies and then build a whole song around the result.
Thanks for putting Levels back in my ear. I got rid of that last week with Forever Young. Drat, before I found a good tune to listen to I have Where Them Girls At by David Guetta. Now I have to go shopping thinking about you popping bubbles. Love and light.
On a scientific level I believe "catchy" comes from how you utilize the Perfect 5th. You should be able to sing your melody too. Why the perfect 5th? It's the second most stable next to the root being the most stable of the scale. The 5th note of the scale but the 7th semi tone.
My technique as someone with little knowledge or experience is to lean very heavily on whatever "crutch" or "cheat" I can find to get into having fun making sounds. Lots of generative patching, dialing in a scale on the quantizer, Turing machines and Euclidean rhythm generators. Patch it up, see what it sounds like. Ok, change something. Keep going until I have something I like the sound of. Then see what I can do to spice it up, or vary it in some way. Three quarters of the fun I have is in the patching and sound design process.
I do think that octaves can be the catchiest of all though, even the ones that aren't very singable can be very simple to listen to. As long as you don't jump like crazy it should at least be good for people who can reach that high, stuff like just repeating a phrase an octave up is an incredibly easy way to support making it catchy. To make the singability issue moot, I guess octaves would work very well in a suplementary layer where things like harmony notes and/or rhythmic additions would go
Probably my favorite two tests for "good" melodies and hooks in my own songwriting: - Is it fun to practice & rehearse? - Is it still stuck in my head the day AFTER I come up with it? Maybe other people still won't like it, but at that point I've usually got something I want to keep in my song :)
I just bought your core pack and percussion pack and it will be my new go to packs. I was using vengeance but it was very time consuming trying to find something suitable. Your loop pack is well designed and immediately usable.
Thank you Alice, can't wait for another video from you. May I ask if you'll be making a Melodic Techno production course? Similar to the peak-time one? Low end is cool and such but I feel like melodies and leads are the second most important thing (which I have troubles with lol).
Alice! Love your vids. Had a quick question. When you mentioned moving things off the grid so they don't sound too robotic, you still leave the kick and snare on the grid, right? More so move the hats and percs off? Thank you.
thanks Alice. If I am not mistaken, the vocal part of around the world has 4 little variation in note duration, so it's more like 19 repetitions. I wondering why this so with so little variation on the vocals was still so pleasent while other shorter songs over repetitive songs get annoying really fast. My theory was because it works more as meditative/ intrumental song then a lyric focus song, feels like the writer cant think any more to say. I like the song halo by beyounce, but the chorus even with a good melody is a bit annoying with the word repetition.
I'm not a fan of catchy melodies TBH! I prefer good and interesting melodies rather than just repetitive and too rhythmic melodies. I actually like to span my melodies across at least two octaves, and put some notes with a difference of more than 7 semitones close to each other. This helps to create sudden but harmonic changes which I think can make the melody more interesting. I also like the "chord" trick that you showed where you play chords but slightly changing notes within them. And I really hate the Daft Punk's track "Around the World" because it's too repetitive... However that chord progression and melody from Solomun's track is awesome! But your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
it would really be nice if you mention how many times repetition is good for the ear or in genreal take some songs and see how many times the repitite a catchy melody in a 4 bar loop or 8 bar
There are loads of good tracks that have a bassline that lasts one bar and that plays constantly for the whole track. One of my favourites would be "Can You Feel It" by Mr Fingers. It uses 3 notes in a 6-note melody and in the extended version it gets played about 150 times. The other elements in the track change every 4 bars, which keeps it interesting. Loads of old funk tunes did this, along with most of the early house and techno classics. Dance music is often quite repetitive/hypnotic, innit?
Our hearts are with the people who suffered by the cruel earthquake in Turkey 😥 These videos are recorded and scheduled in advance unfortunately hence no comment about it.
Alice, love your channel. But for someone who is so good with sound, when you speak, it's not easy to decipher or understand the way you speak. If you could make this as clear as your mixes, I would watch twice as much of your content ! Great stuff !
You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times. You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times. You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times.
Long notes also make a song really catchy. Making notes either 3 long or 6 in length is instantly a big difference. If all the notes are the same length then it sounds more boring, and if you whistle it the tempo of the whistle will sound the same. The long note will make it catchy
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
While these hooks you; there are other things that can make your track sound ameteur. Let me explain in this video:
ruclips.net/video/YqaLRk2PyAg/видео.html
I can tell you're obsessed with music. Can feel the passion through the screen. Inspiring
I remember some really inspiring content a couple of years ago, now it’s a bit infantile.
@@sandwich-breath Care to elaborate?
Those things I tend to do sometimes:
1. Let the track play and do some other stuff, like cleaning your studio. Sometimes I begin to humm the 'missing' notes.
2. Use Riffer for melodies in a specific key and scale
3. Use the vst from Magenta (uses a neuronal net [tensorflow] to create or iterate over existing midi notes) and cherry pick the melodies
4. When having an Idea, I record it any where I am
5. Use a different instrument to play the melody. (Guitar, Bass, Different Synth, well even different vst-preset)
yeah I do your 1. all the time. If I am happy with it I will go back to my guitar or keyboard and add extra notes to give it more life.
Thanks for the insights!
wait that first tip is really interesting
6:48 This melody is so reminiscent of arcade music from the early 80s. Nice how much you can do with so little polyphony
One thing that's always fascinated me is how often the song I like least on an album ends up becoming my favourite and I think it's important not to throw out "bad ideas" without giving them a decent chance.
I think is related to accessibility. Some songs are not quite accessible but still pretty catchy so they first sound pretty weird but get stuck in your head until you love it. Had this with Radiohead and King Crimson e.g.
Great video! At 3:07, be careful though..you came dangerously close to Darude - Sandstorm 😂
The dangerous moment that your melody starts to converges into Darude - Sandstorm. A real phenomena 😅
Alice your teaching capability is outstanding!!!
3:07 It's not boring, it's SANDSTORM
Like the distinction between good / catchy. I like the overlap and analysis but I like also to think that caring to achieve catchiness is overrated and formulaic and limiting. Catchy combined w surprise I suppose is a decent compromise.
Excellent video! I've heard the bit about a good melody being easy to hum before. The part about being able to whistle is both genius and true. Well done!
Back in the distant past, pop stars would aspire to writing melodies that the milkman would whistle. When there were fewer cars on the road, you'd literally hear the milkman whistling songs (like Burt Bacharach's "Magic Moments" or The Beatles' "Eleanor Rugby") as he drove his electric milkfloat up the street at 7:30 in the morning.
Later on, when milkmen more or less ceased to exist, my dream was to write a riff/bassline that could be chanted by football fans. Good examples that actually happened are "No Limits" (2 Unlimited), "Seven Nation Army" (White Stripes), and "Kernkraft 400" (Zombie Nation). All the above are easy to play on a keyboard, and even easier to hum or whistle.
Nice analysis thanks Alice - I love your enthusiasm!
I was sort of hoping you’d say something about harmony - as in playing with tension and release against the harmonic structure. I find that’s where the really juicy stuff lies!
Though your videos are lovely glimpses into a much bigger world. Thank you.
5:59 The coordinated movement up and down here is super interesting because it's something you are really not supposed to do according to the rules of counterpoint. I guess the thing is that counterpoint is not at all trying to be catchy and it is more about the vibe of being extremely balanced while in motion than any of the phrases?
That makes sense, counterpoint is designed to ensure that as the piece moves through its harmonic development the perceived strength of the sound is never compromised by unbalanced tonal relationships. But a phrase that might unbalance the overall body of a choral or orchestral piece could still for another reason be pleasing to the ear
Speaking of catchy melodies, the Jaws theme (that's in this video) is just two notes, and yet it's so memorable, it's insane!
you are so knowledgeable about everything you choose to discuss. I am truly inspired. Thanks for the upload
What other tactics do you use to make good and cathy melodies? 😊
A piano keyboard or acoustic
I write a melody, and leave it to one side. go away and do other things. if after a fair amount of time I am still humming that melody, I know it works. Otherwise, it gets pushed to one side and I come up with something else until it sticks.
@@AKAtAGG Haha the good old, forget about it; if it comes back to you method 😊
When I'm stuck and having difficulty finding a solid melodic guitar or bass line, I will move over to the keyboard and select a mode (often times randomly by rolling a 10 sided die to select a mode/scale) and then use little Post-it note stickers to mark off each individual note/key from that mode on the keyboard, in or around the key center of the tune I'm working on. Then I just start tapping stuff out (finger drums style) using only those keys I marked. If I'm not feelin it, roll again and switch modes. It sort of pulls me outside of my comfort zone and pushes my tunes into new sounds and styles that I wouldn't otherwise come up with by just noodling it out on the guitar.
Sharing my technique with other musicians results in many disappointed eye-rolls, especially from the keys playin' folks; but it has consistently worked for me time and time again. It's also SO much fun for me that many times I will start a new song from scratch by rolling two dice (d10 for the scale/mode & d12 for the key) and tap out a couple melodies and then build a whole song around the result.
I drive my scooter everyday and i always hum on the way. Later i stop and record the humming and later back in the studio i try it on a synth lol.
Thanks for putting Levels back in my ear. I got rid of that last week with Forever Young. Drat, before I found a good tune to listen to I have Where Them Girls At by David Guetta. Now I have to go shopping thinking about you popping bubbles. Love and light.
On a scientific level I believe "catchy" comes from how you utilize the Perfect 5th. You should be able to sing your melody too. Why the perfect 5th? It's the second most stable next to the root being the most stable of the scale. The 5th note of the scale but the 7th semi tone.
Lol
@@KSHMRmusic Bro what're you doing here lol
You went from "scientific level" to "I believe" in like 0.2 seconds. Those don't mix.
No one tell him what a dominant/subdominant is
@@JakkeJakobsen i mean... they’ve postulated a testable hypothesis...
My technique as someone with little knowledge or experience is to lean very heavily on whatever "crutch" or "cheat" I can find to get into having fun making sounds. Lots of generative patching, dialing in a scale on the quantizer, Turing machines and Euclidean rhythm generators. Patch it up, see what it sounds like. Ok, change something. Keep going until I have something I like the sound of. Then see what I can do to spice it up, or vary it in some way. Three quarters of the fun I have is in the patching and sound design process.
Tldr how I get a melody I like is by trial and error.
I like the slightly different direction your content is taking now. More of this! A pleasure to watch :)
Yess
I do think that octaves can be the catchiest of all though, even the ones that aren't very singable can be very simple to listen to.
As long as you don't jump like crazy it should at least be good for people who can reach that high, stuff like just repeating a phrase an octave up is an incredibly easy way to support making it catchy. To make the singability issue moot, I guess octaves would work very well in a suplementary layer where things like harmony notes and/or rhythmic additions would go
I'd still love to see part 2 of this some day soon :)
The space where nothing happens as well as where something happens.
6:43 That's the Blues change :)
Alice! Thanks for everything you share. When are we going to listen to those Pandora's melodies? Great name!
Probably my favorite two tests for "good" melodies and hooks in my own songwriting:
- Is it fun to practice & rehearse?
- Is it still stuck in my head the day AFTER I come up with it?
Maybe other people still won't like it, but at that point I've usually got something I want to keep in my song :)
I just bought your core pack and percussion pack and it will be my new go to packs. I was using vengeance but it was very time consuming trying to find something suitable. Your loop pack is well designed and immediately usable.
Really great to hear that! Hope they bring you tons of inspiration
You are great Alice!! Thank you so much for the video!
Yay, Birdlady whistleable is now in the lexicon.
That "off melody" was not weird but much better than a boring overused one from the get go
Thanks. Insightful and quite an original way you have managed to articulate this.
Somehow I had skipped this video and just watched it.
It's awesome 🥳
It's fun 🤣
And it's really helpful 🚀
Thanks so much 🤗
Award for most whistleable song is PPK Resurrection
Thank you Alice, can't wait for part 2.
When do we get the continuation to this? I’ve been hoping each release will be the next one. You really know how leave off on a cliffhanger. 😅
Whistleable is a perfectly cromulent word :)
DJ Edge - Cmpnded one of the greatest melodies ever
one of the best youtube channels, thats it...
"Melodies that remind me I suck" lmao 🤣 I can relate
Best thumbnail I’ve ever seen 💛
Thank you Alice, can't wait for another video from you.
May I ask if you'll be making a Melodic Techno production course? Similar to the peak-time one? Low end is cool and such but I feel like melodies and leads are the second most important thing (which I have troubles with lol).
Uuugh that would be awesome🤗
There will a course like that in upcoming months 😊
We've DJed in Whistler!
The Andy Griffith theme song is a great example of a catchy whistling tune.
Just discovered your channel and I LOVE IT!!
Thank you really enjoyed the video
Thank you!
You are such an inspiration for me!
Best music eletronic creator ever
Great stuff. Had to subscribe! Love how you don't f*ck about and get straight to the sh*t.
Huge thanks!!
You instantly catched me with this Video. Have subscribed to your channel.
Welcome to our community 😊🙋♀️
Thanks!
You keep me inspired my friend 🙏🏻
Thanks
We need the next one 🤩🙌
Nonono, not Pandora's melodies..
@@Alice-Efe 🤣
Alice! Love your vids. Had a quick question. When you mentioned moving things off the grid so they don't sound too robotic, you still leave the kick and snare on the grid, right? More so move the hats and percs off? Thank you.
Cheers! I only have the kick on the grid. Everything else probably slightly of grid 😊
@@Alice-Efe Thank you, angelface 🖤
BANGER
Alice I'm in littel trouble I forget Alot, there is something between my eyes and 3eye chakra this pain is like wooow
thanks Alice. If I am not mistaken, the vocal part of around the world has 4 little variation in note duration, so it's more like 19 repetitions. I wondering why this so with so little variation on the vocals was still so pleasent while other shorter songs over repetitive songs get annoying really fast. My theory was because it works more as meditative/ intrumental song then a lyric focus song, feels like the writer cant think any more to say.
I like the song halo by beyounce, but the chorus even with a good melody is a bit annoying with the word repetition.
Hi Alice, I saw you had a segment up on Sonic Academy, would love to see a few courses there from you! Thank you.
I'm not a fan of catchy melodies TBH! I prefer good and interesting melodies rather than just repetitive and too rhythmic melodies. I actually like to span my melodies across at least two octaves, and put some notes with a difference of more than 7 semitones close to each other. This helps to create sudden but harmonic changes which I think can make the melody more interesting. I also like the "chord" trick that you showed where you play chords but slightly changing notes within them. And I really hate the Daft Punk's track "Around the World" because it's too repetitive... However that chord progression and melody from Solomun's track is awesome! But your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
As always writing a comment to support the channel
I really appreciate you! ❤
I like your knowledge and humor 😃👍
4:18 Nah this already sounds great lol
Great video!
i love all of your videos and soon i'll buy every pack that you have jahha HUGS!!!
Awww cheers ✌️❤️
it would really be nice if you mention how many times repetition is good for the ear or in genreal take some songs and see how many times the repitite a catchy melody in a 4 bar loop or 8 bar
Well there are two songs in there with a truly ridiculous number of repetitions that were huge hits, so I don't think there's a hard limit
There are loads of good tracks that have a bassline that lasts one bar and that plays constantly for the whole track. One of my favourites would be "Can You Feel It" by Mr Fingers. It uses 3 notes in a 6-note melody and in the extended version it gets played about 150 times. The other elements in the track change every 4 bars, which keeps it interesting.
Loads of old funk tunes did this, along with most of the early house and techno classics. Dance music is often quite repetitive/hypnotic, innit?
3:08 Darude Sandstorm
great vid but i would loove to have chapters so if i want to revisit a specific part again i can quickly find it 😢:)
Great video, thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Love yours videos Alice ♥
you are awesome
good videos !
I love your videos! 🥰
Kızım bi geçmiş olsun ekleseydin video nun başına...
Our hearts are with the people who suffered by the cruel earthquake in Turkey 😥 These videos are recorded and scheduled in advance unfortunately hence no comment about it.
great video
how the hell did Skrillex make his og monster basses CATCHY
The catchy Makes Catchy Melodies, CATCHY!...
Ha cute earworm
Solomun is king
Alice, love your channel. But for someone who is so good with sound, when you speak, it's not easy to decipher or understand the way you speak. If you could make this as clear as your mixes, I would watch twice as much of your content ! Great stuff !
You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times.
You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times.
You are required to say repetition legitimizes at least 3 times.
Dude you are awesome 😂
Hi why you delete pole group video?😢😢😢 i need them! 😢😢😢😢 please
You are very funny
Long notes also make a song really catchy. Making notes either 3 long or 6 in length is instantly a big difference. If all the notes are the same length then it sounds more boring, and if you whistle it the tempo of the whistle will sound the same. The long note will make it catchy
Frist :D nice video as always !
Thank you Maracuda, I appreciate it! ❤
We all know Darude - Sandstorm was in the box..
not the swedish anthem xD!
What makes clickbait titles, CLICKBAITY?
'around the world' and 'levels'...probably the 2 most annoying tracks in the 'world'
Great video but the grossest intro I've seen 😅
what is this creature?