Imagine being a critic calling a movie “one of the worst films ever” only for that same movie to become critically acclaimed and then call it a masterpiece years later
@@Otokichi786 And The Thirteenth Warrior. I didn't watch that movie for years because Ebert panned it. I think he was woke ahead of his time, in that anything that seemed a celebration of masculinity was something he had an instant aversion to.
Let's not forget that the theatrical release of Blade Runner was a completely different film than the director's cut, which was released years later. It is the director's cut that is a cult classic. It's actually hard to find the theatrical release these days.
Indeed, that studio-mandated voiceover - which Harrison Ford deliberately did as badly as possible because he rightly hated it - was a real detriment to the whole thing. Once it was released _sans_ voiceover, as originally intended, everyone was like, oh, this is actually a really good movie! And then he had to go back and fiddle with it some more and ... about that the less said, the better.
Blade Runner is the best over all sci fi film. The complete set has the narrative version. It is the best one. The point of the movie was humans were becoming like androids and and androids were being humans.
There are critics, that coped with their depression by joining an underground fighting club to become a somekind of a brainwashed red pill cult member, and then moved on to terrorism?
I’m glad you included Children of Men. I think it’s one of the best if not the best post apocalyptic film. I saw it twice in the theaters. And thank goodness it wasn’t a zombie movie.
Changed my views on birthing. Before I saw it, I thought the world should quit breeding for ten years. But then I saw what it would do to most people. Now I just wish they'd slow down.
@@tricivenola8164well to be fair, choosing not to breed and finding out people just can't breed anymore would have vastly different social implications
@@Ytinasniiable Very true! I am child free by choice, but I have an enormous commitment to creating art. Many people don't have something like that. They have children.
The critics who hated _Fight Club_ didn't get it in the exact same way as a certain kind of guy who _loves_ it, for all the wrong reasons. (Hint: Tyler Durden is _not_ the hero/aspirational figure and you're not supposed to follow his "philosophy") Likewise with _Starship Troopers_
Fight Club is about deprogramming yourself...it's starting/final countdown literally leads not to the blowing of the edifices, but the protagonist brain (>old conformist personality)
@@dwc1964 I hated Fight Club. It glorified violence for violence sake. I tuned out about a third of a way into it. It's considered a classic in the same way that Clockwork Orange is. Another movie that I hated. I have always thought I should give it another try since it is thought of so highly. I just can't get it into myself to do it.
@@nikolatesla5553 maybe if you watched the whole thing you'd have gotten the point of it, which is the opposite of what you got from watching the first third of it
The same for me. I had rented it a few years later, watched it, watched it again in the morning, and one more time in the afternoon. I have watched it once every couple of years ever since then. One of my favourite movies of all time.
I avoided Blade Runner 2049 when it was released because I assumed it would be just another case of sequelitis. Apparently, I wasn't alone in that thought, as it was somewhat of a commercial failure. However, as time has passed, its perspective on AI relationships has started to seem quite prescient. In a way, it has become a true sequel.
2049 is truly a great movie. One I can watch again and again. Strong women, incredible set design, great performances, all around top 10 in the neighborhood of 2001 a Space Odessey in this dog's opinion.
The perfection of Bladerunner (IMO) was the ambiguity of the ending. "Is he... or isn't he?!" 2049 would take away from the original, not add to it. It's like "The Shining" (great!) and "Dr. Sleep" (not so much). Leave the ambiguity alone!
I think that the failure of The Shawshank Redemption was primarily due to the obscurity of the two main actors; at that time, neither Morgan Freeman nor Tim Robbins had much success in cinema. So you understand, the role of Red could have been given to such legends as Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Gene Hackman and Robert Duvall. Well, of course, the name Frank Darabont also didn’t really mean anything to the audience; he had only one TV movie, which no one really saw. However, the box office failure pales in comparison to the cult status that The Shawshank Redemption received.
I dunno. Morgan Freeman was on a big hot streak coming into 1993. He had received Oscar nominations for Street Smart and Driving Ms. Daisy in the prior handful of years, and was in major cultural hits Lean on Me and Glory in that time as well. Tim Robbins broke out BIG in Bull Durham in 1988 and won major awards for his role in The Player just before Shawshank. Jacob's Ladder was a big movie as well. The selling-power of the actors wasn't the issue. It was definitely the title/subject-matter combo. It's such a dark subject matter for so much of the film, even though its final 20 minutes is one of the most joyful, emotional, and satisfying things you will ever see.
Hehe.. reason why I saw the film cause all the other films were full. Me and my gf were absolutely floored after the film and told indecisive ppl (mostly couples) in the lobby to watch Shawshank. Had no clue who Freeman was and this was the film that made me watch the other films he was in. Robbins although I did like The Player.. wasn't the reason why I watched it cause I didn't even recognize him in the poster.. so it was only due to availability. Also the picture of the character standing in the rain didn't say block buster.. I knew nothing of the film cept the the people that watched it with us were also ppl the same predicament. We were there for Pulp or Gump.. ended up with Shank. Only one film made me tear up (ST2:TWoK) and I was a kid/teen back then.. this is first film to make me tear up as an adult(mid 20's).
@hellman9128 Sorry, I don't buy that. Morgan Freeman was very well known by the time The Shawshank Redemption came out. He played in Unforgiven, Street Smart, Driving Miss Daisy, Glory, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. They did a poor job marketing it. But it would be a tough movie to market regardless who might be playing the main roles.
The Thing is one of my alltime favorites! Fight Club is great too. While I don’t personally agree with all of these picks, it is an interesting, good list👍🏻
I am surprised about Blade Runner, Fight Club, and The Shawshank Redemption. I thought these movies did well. They were very popular with most people I knew.
Someone needs to explain how Fight Club had a $65 million dollar budget. That movies budget should have been $30 mil on the high end. That must be what studios call "enhanced accounting technique"
I remember how annoying it was as a kid when the 3 Amigos came out and all the adults who did not get the proto-Simpsons humor were trying to convince us kids it was not a masterpiece.
@@garyphisher7375 because a comedy cannot be a masterpiece? 3 Amigos is hilariously written, beautifully filmed, and has performances that shaped a generation. It is more akin to the Godfather than an eighties comedy.
I remember seeing the trailers of "Fight Club" and thinking "Hollywood beau Brad Pitt is trying to star in a Van Damme movie? Nope, not for me, for multiple reasons" Man, was I deceived.
I've heard "It's a Wonderful Life" wasn't embraced by critics and was a box-office disappointment upon its initial release in the 1940s. Hard to believe.
I love watching old movies. TCM shows forgotten movies of the 70's and 80's sometimes. They're usually pretty good, but for some reason they are regularly run on TV.
Fight Club is about deprogramming yourself, not about fascism, neither masculinity...and just symbolically about violence. It's way more interesting than the source novel
Palianuk is my favorite writer, but he is a satirist who takes his character on a long crazy road of discovery, where the extremely unlikely circumstances replace the magic we aspire to believe in. And we are forced to view our reality in a completely different way. His books are difficult to translate into films for that reason.
Speed Racer flopped harder than any of these films and if you look online it has gone through a huge surge in change of attitude toward it.. Now many call it their favorite film.
It's always interesting to see how people come around to movies over long periods of time. It's always always heartening to see, as it is in this case.
Children of Men has great camera work, and a very compelling story. I do remember talking it up to friends and family and them being disinterested. It's marketing was bad, and also the director was unknown. My circle just didn't want to give it a shot.
I haven't conducted any research, but I imagine one reason Fight Club flopped when it was released was because of the marketing. I had seen the previews, and I didn't want to watch a movie that was about a bunch of guys beating each other up. But a year or so later, a friend who knew me well brought me his copy of the DVD and said, "You want to watch this. It isn't just about fighting." I took a chance and watched it. It quickly became one of my favorite movies because of what it says about capitalism and about the pointlessness of reacting to women's increased power as a macho "alpha" dude. If the previews had dealt with something other than guys beating each other to a bloody pulp, more of us would have gone to see it.
"John Carter" may be a film that the next generation may rediscover, especially if it is re-released with its original title, "John Carter of Mars". General consensus is that Disney purposefully sabotaged the marketing of "John Carter", even by giving the film its bland title, because corporate was about to acquire the "Star Wars" franchise and decided it didn't want a competing action-adventure-SciFi franchise.
Solid suggestions, especially Dredd and Valerian. I included Dredd in a recent one, so I didn't recap it in here but it definitely would've fit. It's unfortunate Valerian didn't do well - I actually enjoyed it in theaters.
@@Syntopikon Ah, yes you did Dredd, I'm seeing so many RUclips videos I don't recall where I've seen what. About Valerian, I too do like it, but the production was always going to be too expensive to be profitable I think. Also Dehane was a bit too cocky in the role perhaps so that was legitimate critisism. As for Idiocracy, 20cent only distributed it to 5 theaters or so, with no marketing.
Being an older guy I remember when Blade Runner was released and the reaction to it at that time. * This is important. At the time the mass audience wanted optimistic happy endings with science fiction and fantasy. The “good” films included; ET, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Close Encounters. - Blade Runner; the dark reality of capitalist domination grinding people down, with their police hunting sentient slaves, was too much for most viewers at the time to handle even with Harrison Ford. I loved the film. - The Thing; the negativity to the film was more than the horror involving the monster. It was also a message about humanity. That under extreme pressure humans will viciously turn on each other. I thought The Thing was brilliant. - A PS. Nolan understood the problem of the mass audience not wanting too much of a negative view of humanity. That’s why in The Dark Knight Nolan made it clear that the people of Gotham were good. Even the killers on the ferry were good. This made the film more kid friendly which = more box office. - Another PS. The Empire Strikes Back; was obviously not a flop but when released, the film had a lot of negative reviews and negative comments from audience members as well as by George Lucas. The movie was dark and the bad guys were winning at that point. I thought Empire Strikes Back was excellent.
To be fair, there are films I didn’t get the first time, like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind or memento, which I love now and appreciate there brilliance.
You left out Night of the Hunter directed by Charles Laughton. It was a big flop but has attained cult status. The French who really know cinema think it's the second greatest film after Citizen Kane. It broke its director's heart and sadly he never directed another film. He was, however, one of the best actors who ever lived.
Yeah, the only reason I left Night of the Hunter out is because I spoke about the film in the video just before this one. But you're right: the negative reception to it made it so Laughton never directed a again, a true shame considering how excellent the movie is (also perhaps the coolest name for a movie ever besides Blade Runner).
Yeah, it took a couple of releases to get its box office numbers up there but without the TV syndication + home video releases, I don't think it would've been as beloved as it is today. I remember a time where you couldn't turn on the TV without Shawshank playing on TNT.
@@stellviahohenheim I agree! I think the scene with the opera record was one of the most insipid things ever committed to film. Darabont should have been banned from making films forever for that!
I loved ALL of these instantly, the first time I watched them ... except I thought the ending of Blade Runner made no sense at all. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Ridley Scott agreed with me!
Editing and marketing also play big parts in how well a film is received in theaters. The theatrical cut is sometimes a muted or incoherent mess due to studio interference and would not become known as a masterpiece no matter how much time passes.
One of the issues with The Thing was its R rating in the USA and 18 rating here in the UK. In those days, once you hit 18 you were going to the movies more as a date night. Most people who saw The Thing saw it underage on home video or pirated. I was around 13 at the time and saw it with a big group of high school friends at someone's house whose parents were away. Reviews also made a massive difference at the time. Fight Club got slated and that's why I didn't go. I eventually saw it on a plane - despite the plane crash opening and loved it.
the village is a film that i would’ve put on here. everyone hated it when it came out but it’s quietly improved as the years went by and people love it now
Blade Runner, The Thing, and Children of Men are 3 of my favorite films of all time. They rank in the top 15 films of my lifetime. I'm unsure what that says about my personality, but then again, I don't really care. I was deployed when I saw Blade Runner, but I wanted to see it based on the fact that Ridley Scott had made The Duelists which was the last movie I'd seen before enlisting. I was a fan of how skilfully he'd made that film. It was not an easy film to get made I'm sure, but it was filmed very lovingly. I figured if he could put that much care into that film, Blade Runner had to be incredible. I was right. The guys I was working with stayed up all night talking about Blade Runner when we were all ON GUNS the next day. We were kids, we just drank a shipload of coffee and probably should have been Court-martialed for taking out a lot more enemies than we might have otherwise. Oddly enough, we were all given ATTABOYS for our efforts that day. The military can be crazy. I was a young sniper back then and no, it was not a high prestige job back then. Most of the guys who found out I was going to sniper school gave me nothing crap about it. Being a sniper back then was like the lowest of the low in jobs. People called me a coward, and that was the nicest thing they said. So, don't get started on how I must think highly of myself because I was a sniper, nope I did everything I could to get out of it, to no avail. Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless you were in the military from 1976 on. I don't think there are that many of us still alive. The only folks that did appreciate us were guys we protected, and there were a few of those guys who gave up crap about not taking out bad guys soon enough. Here's another fantasy you can get rid of, headshots are for movies. Center mass was what we were taught back then. Look it up or talk to someone who did the job back then.
Absolutely! Kurosawa was not appreciated in Japan. One of the greatest geniuses of cinema. I had a husband who refused to watch anything but top=quality films. His favorite was Kurosawa. Wish there were more pple like him. Maybe we'd have less trash.
In the first year Blade Runner was screened here in Brazil I saw it 6 up to 9 nine times. Fight Club resonated greatly with me the same way as a kind of mad satyre. a glorious mess of a perverse narrative, deviously funny as Doctor Strangelove, for instance. These films made me very happy, thank God. I am still very grateful for them.
Blade runner resonated with me. I had it on beta and when it came out on LaserDisc I bought it. I consider that one of the greatest movies of the 20th century. And I did at the time.
Right on. It was one of those movies I've always wanted to see on the big screen and I finally got a chance a couple of weeks ago. Very memorable experience.
I saw Blade Runner two nights in a row when it first came out in my small home town, opening night and the second night showing. Hardly anyone else was in the theatre. What a bunch of fools!
@@gregorycarver9256 I like the theatrical release with the narration way more than the later-released director’s cut. Especially because Harrison Ford’s has an uninterested tone of voice, which is because he reluctantly made the voiceover per the studio’s demand to avoid getting sued for breach of contract despite agreeing with Ridley Scott’s objection to it. IMO, it adds a tone of resignation by the protagonist to the story, which contributes to the notion that he was caught up in something he despised but was powerless to fight against.
IMO, "Blade Runner" had awesome production design, but the plot was kinda boring. They should have kept the sets intact and made another, BETTER movie.
The studio took the movie away from the director and butchered it to cut it down to a runtime that was at the maximum tolerable length for theatre-released movies at the time. The director’s cut, in contrast, is well worth the slog.
3:15 - there; that's the issue Blade Runner faced. It was a "thinking piece." Thinking is an activity that most Americans shy away from at every opportunity.
Can't believe you left out the Wizard of Oz. Its box office flop led to its being a cheap option for tv broadcast, which in turn led to its establishment as a classic.
Mike Judge's films get no respect. Not even from people making lists of such films. I can barely go three days without hearing someone making a reference to either Idiocracy or Office Space. I mean seriously, what other movie could compel an office supply company to expand their product line to include a particularly colored stapler? Ask anyone "what ***are*** electrolytes?" and they're likely to come back at you quoting half the movie.
It's a fair list, although I was kind of bored with Children of Men. Don't forget Scarface and This is Spinal Tap - both flopped at the theatres but found new life on video.
If they were released now, I think James Cameron's "Aliens" would still succeed, and (despite it's technical brilliance) Carpenter's "The Thing" would still flop. One is exciting, with likeable characters and a satisfying ending, while the other (though occasionally exciting) is pretty grim with characters who aren't as quotable, and an ending that is something of a bummer. "The Thing" probably works better in a living room than it ever would in a theatre full of 18 years old's- dragging their girlfriends along with them- in search of a summer thrill ride.
I think that's a wise assessment. Aliens is, for lack of a better word, more of a movie-ish movie than The Thing. More action, a clearly delineated adversary, and, as you say, more exciting. Both are great movies for their own reasons, but Aliens is just more Hollywood, in a way.
Right off the start I disagree on Battleship. I think it is very entertaining, and sometimes that's all you want from a movie. There are times we look for deep content and extraordinary acting, etc and then there are times you just want to have a good time thats all. Is similar to Smokey and the Bandit, it is just fun.
I tried to watch Citizen Kane again and again and tried to like it. I can’t. It is boring, plot too non subtle, too much overacting, and not pleasant watching. Very overrated in my opinion.
Every movie in this list except _Citizen Kane_ is an adaptation, and all but one is credited as such - but no love for _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_
Ehh with Blade Runner, you can influence film and sci-fi for decades and still be a mediocre movie. Saying it had bad timing because a bunch of better movies came out at the same time is kinda says it all.
A lot of these critics will pan a film because it’s not what they wanted it to be. Today if a superhero movie isn’t loaded with slapstick comedy, with the exception of Batman, they will bash the film. They wanted a campy bad comedy with a non threatening villain not an epic sci-fi, superhero adventure with great acting music, villains, hero, directing, visuals and plot execution.
At long last it's time to talk about Fight Club. I didn't see it when it came out, but everyone, and I mean everyone, talked about it. I'm surprised that it tanked financially. When I did finally see it on DVD, I wished I'd seen it when it came out. I had been noticing the systematic demonization of testosterone in my culture (I'm female from LA) and in film. Just watched it again and each time it gets better. And now, of course, the idiots are making a "girls' version." Thanks for your insightful video. And thanks for your take on Blade Runner. That movie was so good that we just stayed in the theater and saw it again. We told everybody about it, but it was over a year later, in art school, that I realized it had become a cult. Gibson said shortly after it came out that he took a break from writing Neuromancer to go to the movies. But he had to leave after 20 minutes. "There on the screen was everything I had been writing about. I was afraid it would affect my own vision, so I left."
Sad to think these films floped not because they were bad but because of the year and time they released, to think if the thing and blade runner released before ET
Fight Club did NOT "flop hard" at the box office, that's a lie. It was the #1 movie the 3rd week of October. The blockbuster movies at that time were Phantom Menace, and the 6th Sense, (among others) Fight Club did not flop, it was a different time... how can a movie that cost $60 million to make, but grossed $140 million worldwide, not to mention all the awards it was nominated for, be suggested as a "hard flop"?! It's just ridiculous.
Fight Club is absolutely a modern retelling of a story by Edgar Allen Poe called "William Wilson". For some inexplicable reason NOBODY has ever discussed the absolute truth, nor made the connection. There is no legal reason to avoid admitting this, as all of Poe's tales are in the public domain. If you are a fan of Fight Club, please read this story and you'll understand the origins of F.C.'s major themes. Then post your responses & let me know what revelations you've gained. Thank-you
There’s eight sequences I can think of off the top of my head that are some of the finest oners in history for CoM. That last shot one in the combat zone w/the baby is FIRE.
Imagine being a critic calling a movie “one of the worst films ever” only for that same movie to become critically acclaimed and then call it a masterpiece years later
Well, if he/she after all these years still doesn't like it at least he/she was honest.
@@KapiteinKrentebol Which reminds me of Roger Ebert's review of "Tora! Tora! Tora!" (1970).
@@Otokichi786 And The Thirteenth Warrior. I didn't watch that movie for years because Ebert panned it. I think he was woke ahead of his time, in that anything that seemed a celebration of masculinity was something he had an instant aversion to.
@@Otokichi786 _Tora! Tora! Tora!_ is not considered a masterpiece.
@@Otokichi786 I almost always found that if Ebert panned a movie, I could count on liking it.
Let's not forget that the theatrical release of Blade Runner was a completely different film than the director's cut, which was released years later. It is the director's cut that is a cult classic. It's actually hard to find the theatrical release these days.
You’d need to find the collectors edition shaped like a briefcase
It's not expectation or anything it's studio interference
Indeed, that studio-mandated voiceover - which Harrison Ford deliberately did as badly as possible because he rightly hated it - was a real detriment to the whole thing. Once it was released _sans_ voiceover, as originally intended, everyone was like, oh, this is actually a really good movie!
And then he had to go back and fiddle with it some more and ... about that the less said, the better.
Final cut, not the director's cut.
Blade Runner is the best over all sci fi film. The complete set has the narrative version. It is the best one. The point of the movie was humans were becoming like androids and and androids were being humans.
The movie critics didn't like Fight Club because it ridicules guys like them.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGG......RIGHT!..ON!!....BRUTHARRRRR!!!!!.....YEEEEEEAAHHHH!!!😫😖😡🤕💀
@@brettrobinson2901 A simple like would have been enough.
@@TheGuyInTheCheapSeats 😇
There are critics, that coped with their depression by joining an underground fighting club to become a somekind of a brainwashed red pill cult member, and then moved on to terrorism?
@@TheGuyInTheCheapSeatshow about a simple “correct”?
I think that GATTACA needs to be on that list.
Yup. Gattaca would also fit here.
its all about the soundtrack and a good well written narration. Love Alan Arkin.
"It's a Wonderful Life" flopped in 1946.
One of my favourite movies.
The Thing is one of my favorite movies EVER- saw it in the theatre and it scared the CRAP out of me... a great remake of another GREAT film...
Lucky. I keep a lookout for it returning to theaters. It's one of those movies I need to see on the big screen.
I'm not sure it would be regarded as a flop but a film that has grown in stature immensely since is The Big Lebowski
I’m glad you included Children of Men. I think it’s one of the best if not the best post apocalyptic film. I saw it twice in the theaters. And thank goodness it wasn’t a zombie movie.
It's one of those movies I wish comes back to theaters so I can watch it there. I only ever saw it on TV.
Changed my views on birthing. Before I saw it, I thought the world should quit breeding for ten years. But then I saw what it would do to most people. Now I just wish they'd slow down.
@@tricivenola8164well to be fair, choosing not to breed and finding out people just can't breed anymore would have vastly different social implications
@@Ytinasniiable Very true! I am child free by choice, but I have an enormous commitment to creating art. Many people don't have something like that. They have children.
The critics who hated _Fight Club_ didn't get it in the exact same way as a certain kind of guy who _loves_ it, for all the wrong reasons. (Hint: Tyler Durden is _not_ the hero/aspirational figure and you're not supposed to follow his "philosophy")
Likewise with _Starship Troopers_
Fight Club is about deprogramming yourself...it's starting/final countdown literally leads not to the blowing of the edifices, but the protagonist brain (>old conformist personality)
@@dwc1964 I hated Fight Club. It glorified violence for violence sake. I tuned out about a third of a way into it. It's considered a classic in the same way that Clockwork Orange is. Another movie that I hated. I have always thought I should give it another try since it is thought of so highly. I just can't get it into myself to do it.
@@nikolatesla5553 maybe if you watched the whole thing you'd have gotten the point of it, which is the opposite of what you got from watching the first third of it
I saw The Thing in 1982 and loved it so much I had to see it again the next day. I knew immediately it was a masterpiece. Critics are just stupid.
The same for me. I had rented it a few years later, watched it, watched it again in the morning, and one more time in the afternoon.
I have watched it once every couple of years ever since then.
One of my favourite movies of all time.
A Masterpiece of Sci Fi Horror. The best of it's kind
@@artdonovandesign A Masterpiece about paranoia.
I love how over-dramatic critics were back then “death no longer has any meaning” and “qualifies only as instant junk” is gold
Critics are just sellouts
From what I saw of these excerpts I think The Thing is junk. Why it's here I don't know.
@@stellviahohenheim Not all.
time and time again the Oscars get it wrong too 😢 only time tells (Shawshank Redemption lost Best Picture to Forrest Gump, as did Pulp Fiction)
I avoided Blade Runner 2049 when it was released because I assumed it would be just another case of sequelitis. Apparently, I wasn't alone in that thought, as it was somewhat of a commercial failure. However, as time has passed, its perspective on AI relationships has started to seem quite prescient. In a way, it has become a true sequel.
Somewhat of a commercial failure? The studio lost $80 million.
2049 is truly a great movie. One I can watch again and again. Strong women, incredible set design, great performances, all around top 10 in the neighborhood of 2001 a Space Odessey in this dog's opinion.
I watched half an hour of it when it was on TV. It was so slow and boring. Should I give it another chance?
@@lordprotector3367 I say yes, in a dark room and a good sound system.. the movie builds to a pretty good end..
The perfection of Bladerunner (IMO) was the ambiguity of the ending. "Is he... or isn't he?!" 2049 would take away from the original, not add to it. It's like "The Shining" (great!) and "Dr. Sleep" (not so much). Leave the ambiguity alone!
Why are you talking about Fight Club? Not allowed.
The first two rules were always the least obeyed.
I think that the failure of The Shawshank Redemption was primarily due to the obscurity of the two main actors; at that time, neither Morgan Freeman nor Tim Robbins had much success in cinema. So you understand, the role of Red could have been given to such legends as Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Gene Hackman and Robert Duvall. Well, of course, the name Frank Darabont also didn’t really mean anything to the audience; he had only one TV movie, which no one really saw. However, the box office failure pales in comparison to the cult status that The Shawshank Redemption received.
I dunno. Morgan Freeman was on a big hot streak coming into 1993. He had received Oscar nominations for Street Smart and Driving Ms. Daisy in the prior handful of years, and was in major cultural hits Lean on Me and Glory in that time as well. Tim Robbins broke out BIG in Bull Durham in 1988 and won major awards for his role in The Player just before Shawshank. Jacob's Ladder was a big movie as well. The selling-power of the actors wasn't the issue. It was definitely the title/subject-matter combo. It's such a dark subject matter for so much of the film, even though its final 20 minutes is one of the most joyful, emotional, and satisfying things you will ever see.
Hehe.. reason why I saw the film cause all the other films were full. Me and my gf were absolutely floored after the film and told indecisive ppl (mostly couples) in the lobby to watch Shawshank. Had no clue who Freeman was and this was the film that made me watch the other films he was in. Robbins although I did like The Player.. wasn't the reason why I watched it cause I didn't even recognize him in the poster.. so it was only due to availability. Also the picture of the character standing in the rain didn't say block buster.. I knew nothing of the film cept the the people that watched it with us were also ppl the same predicament. We were there for Pulp or Gump.. ended up with Shank. Only one film made me tear up (ST2:TWoK) and I was a kid/teen back then.. this is first film to make me tear up as an adult(mid 20's).
Freeman was famous before Shawshank, that film just gave him opportunity to land famous roles.
@hellman9128 Sorry, I don't buy that. Morgan Freeman was very well known by the time The Shawshank Redemption came out. He played in Unforgiven, Street Smart, Driving Miss Daisy, Glory, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. They did a poor job marketing it. But it would be a tough movie to market regardless who might be playing the main roles.
The Thing is one of my alltime favorites! Fight Club is great too. While I don’t personally agree with all of these picks, it is an interesting, good list👍🏻
I am surprised about Blade Runner, Fight Club, and The Shawshank Redemption. I thought these movies did well. They were very popular with most people I knew.
Children of men is genuinely one of the best dystopian movies ever made
It's way overrated. In my opinion, it's......pish
I loved it, grim as it was.
It's got some of the best long takes
@@Ytinasniiable yes, that's true.
Someone needs to explain how Fight Club had a $65 million dollar budget. That movies budget should have been $30 mil on the high end. That must be what studios call "enhanced accounting technique"
I remember how annoying it was as a kid when the 3 Amigos came out and all the adults who did not get the proto-Simpsons humor were trying to convince us kids it was not a masterpiece.
You're setting the bar for masterpieces, extremely low.
@@garyphisher7375 because a comedy cannot be a masterpiece? 3 Amigos is hilariously written, beautifully filmed, and has performances that shaped a generation. It is more akin to the Godfather than an eighties comedy.
@@bltvd Wow - that is a serious double-down! Performances that shaped a generation. More akin to The Godfather.
I'll need to take five.
@@bltvd As much as I liked 3 Amigos, there is no WAY it rose to the level of being able to shape a generation. Blazing Saddles, on the other hand...
I remember seeing the trailers of "Fight Club" and thinking "Hollywood beau Brad Pitt is trying to star in a Van Damme movie? Nope, not for me, for multiple reasons"
Man, was I deceived.
I have seen several videos that refer to The Shawshank Redemption as a novel thank you for getting it right.
Fantasia was a failure upon release.
Now, it is a well loved must-see classic.
Same as the 1940 version of Pinocchio.
I've heard "It's a Wonderful Life" wasn't embraced by critics and was a box-office disappointment upon its initial release in the 1940s. Hard to believe.
Yup. I think it got more popular when it got TV syndication, but it did a number on Capra's reputation, too.
I love watching old movies. TCM shows forgotten movies of the 70's and 80's sometimes. They're usually pretty good, but for some reason they are regularly run on TV.
TCM is great. Between it & Criterion Channel, there's a near endless supply of excellent movies to watch.
The reviews for Fight Club would make more sense if they actually knew what fascism is.
Fight Club is about deprogramming yourself, not about fascism, neither masculinity...and just symbolically about violence.
It's way more interesting than the source novel
@@pepeluisito2842 I was actually saying that the reviewer doesn't know what fascism is.
Palianuk is my favorite writer, but he is a satirist who takes his character on a long crazy road of discovery, where the extremely unlikely circumstances replace the magic we aspire to believe in. And we are forced to view our reality in a completely different way. His books are difficult to translate into films for that reason.
if you review just the script i could kind of see their point, but the performances and overall quality of production really elevates the whole movie
Speed Racer flopped harder than any of these films and if you look online it has gone through a huge surge in change of attitude toward it.. Now many call it their favorite film.
It's always interesting to see how people come around to movies over long periods of time. It's always always heartening to see, as it is in this case.
I didn't like it. The cartoon is much better.
I like that movie.. Wild process.. Christine Ricci and Susan Sarandon ooh la la.. Go speed racer go!
Children of Men has great camera work, and a very compelling story. I do remember talking it up to friends and family and them being disinterested. It's marketing was bad, and also the director was unknown. My circle just didn't want to give it a shot.
I saw Sawshank because another movie was sold out. I had never heard of it. Good movie to see in the theater.
I haven't conducted any research, but I imagine one reason Fight Club flopped when it was released was because of the marketing. I had seen the previews, and I didn't want to watch a movie that was about a bunch of guys beating each other up. But a year or so later, a friend who knew me well brought me his copy of the DVD and said, "You want to watch this. It isn't just about fighting." I took a chance and watched it. It quickly became one of my favorite movies because of what it says about capitalism and about the pointlessness of reacting to women's increased power as a macho "alpha" dude. If the previews had dealt with something other than guys beating each other to a bloody pulp, more of us would have gone to see it.
This is an excellent video essay, thank you. I agree with you on so many of your points. Cheers!
"John Carter" may be a film that the next generation may rediscover, especially if it is re-released with its original title, "John Carter of Mars". General consensus is that Disney purposefully sabotaged the marketing of "John Carter", even by giving the film its bland title, because corporate was about to acquire the "Star Wars" franchise and decided it didn't want a competing action-adventure-SciFi franchise.
Nice, here are a few others to consider, Dredd, Idiocracy, Shoot 'Em Up, Valerian and the city of a thousand planets, Super Troopers, Event Horizon.
Solid suggestions, especially Dredd and Valerian. I included Dredd in a recent one, so I didn't recap it in here but it definitely would've fit. It's unfortunate Valerian didn't do well - I actually enjoyed it in theaters.
@@Syntopikon Ah, yes you did Dredd, I'm seeing so many RUclips videos I don't recall where I've seen what. About Valerian, I too do like it, but the production was always going to be too expensive to be profitable I think. Also Dehane was a bit too cocky in the role perhaps so that was legitimate critisism. As for Idiocracy, 20cent only distributed it to 5 theaters or so, with no marketing.
@@SyntopikonBaseketball
valerian is garbage
@@TheNimdude Them be fighting words.
Being an older guy I remember when Blade Runner was released and the reaction to it at that time.
* This is important. At the time the mass audience wanted optimistic happy endings with science fiction and fantasy. The “good” films included; ET, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Close Encounters.
- Blade Runner; the dark reality of capitalist domination grinding people down, with their police hunting sentient slaves, was too much for most viewers at the time to handle even with Harrison Ford. I loved the film.
- The Thing; the negativity to the film was more than the horror involving the monster. It was also a message about humanity. That under extreme pressure humans will viciously turn on each other. I thought The Thing was brilliant.
- A PS. Nolan understood the problem of the mass audience not wanting too much of a negative view of humanity. That’s why in The Dark Knight Nolan made it clear that the people of Gotham were good. Even the killers on the ferry were good. This made the film more kid friendly which = more box office.
- Another PS. The Empire Strikes Back; was obviously not a flop but when released, the film had a lot of negative reviews and negative comments from audience members as well as by George Lucas. The movie was dark and the bad guys were winning at that point. I thought Empire Strikes Back was excellent.
Loved that movie!
Uggg blade runner is so over blown. People go on and on about it till I want to walk into a chopper blade.
These films you mentioned and featured are in my TOP TEN FOR SURE!
But I still *LOATH* 'Citizen Kane' and for many, many decades.
It's absolutely mad how a critic can ruin a great film but a cult film by so many people 😢
Wise statement
Fight Club was a flop??? I didn't know that
How's that working out for you? Being clever?? Pitt has had some real good characters. This was his best in my opinion.
@@timothyslaughter476 You are the single most interesting single-serving friend I've ever met
@@timothyslaughter476 For some reason, I thought of my first fight... with Tyler....
@@timothyslaughter476 I am Jack's complete and total lack of surprise
@@timothyslaughter476 To me, Fight Club is David Finchers best
To be fair, there are films I didn’t get the first time, like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind or memento, which I love now and appreciate there brilliance.
You left out Night of the Hunter directed by Charles Laughton. It was a big flop but has attained cult status. The French who really know cinema think it's the second greatest film after Citizen Kane. It broke its director's heart and sadly he never directed another film. He was, however, one of the best actors who ever lived.
Yeah, the only reason I left Night of the Hunter out is because I spoke about the film in the video just before this one. But you're right: the negative reception to it made it so Laughton never directed a again, a true shame considering how excellent the movie is (also perhaps the coolest name for a movie ever besides Blade Runner).
Didn't realize Shawshank was a flop. I always thought it was wildly overrated, so that isn't a surprise to me.
Yeah, it took a couple of releases to get its box office numbers up there but without the TV syndication + home video releases, I don't think it would've been as beloved as it is today. I remember a time where you couldn't turn on the TV without Shawshank playing on TNT.
Yeah Shawshank redemption is the worst movie ever made
@@stellviahohenheim have you ever seen dragon ball evolution? watch it, then look me in the eyes and tell me it’s not the worst movie ever made
@@stellviahohenheim I agree! I think the scene with the opera record was one of the most insipid things ever committed to film. Darabont should have been banned from making films forever for that!
I loved ALL of these instantly, the first time I watched them ... except I thought the ending of Blade Runner made no sense at all. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Ridley Scott agreed with me!
Editing and marketing also play big parts in how well a film is received in theaters. The theatrical cut is sometimes a muted or incoherent mess due to studio interference and would not become known as a masterpiece no matter how much time passes.
Shawshank could have had a more attractive title. It gives no idea of what the film is about.
One of the issues with The Thing was its R rating in the USA and 18 rating here in the UK. In those days, once you hit 18 you were going to the movies more as a date night. Most people who saw The Thing saw it underage on home video or pirated. I was around 13 at the time and saw it with a big group of high school friends at someone's house whose parents were away.
Reviews also made a massive difference at the time. Fight Club got slated and that's why I didn't go. I eventually saw it on a plane - despite the plane crash opening and loved it.
the village is a film that i would’ve put on here. everyone hated it when it came out but it’s quietly improved as the years went by and people love it now
The Village wasn't really a flop though. It still made over 250 million on an estimated 60 million budget,
@@Mike-pd6fm oh damn i didn’t know that. that’s impressive
I never understood the dislike for the village.
@@troyarrington5492 it’s an incredible movie imo
I loved The Village.
Blade Runner, The Thing, and Children of Men are 3 of my favorite films of all time. They rank in the top 15 films of my lifetime.
I'm unsure what that says about my personality, but then again, I don't really care.
I was deployed when I saw Blade Runner, but I wanted to see it based on the fact that Ridley Scott had made The Duelists which was the last movie I'd seen before enlisting.
I was a fan of how skilfully he'd made that film. It was not an easy film to get made I'm sure, but it was filmed very lovingly.
I figured if he could put that much care into that film, Blade Runner had to be incredible. I was right. The guys I was working with stayed up all night talking about Blade Runner when we were all ON GUNS the next day. We were kids, we just drank a shipload of coffee and probably should have been Court-martialed for taking out a lot more enemies than we might have otherwise. Oddly enough, we were all given ATTABOYS for our efforts that day. The military can be crazy.
I was a young sniper back then and no, it was not a high prestige job back then. Most of the guys who found out I was going to sniper school gave me nothing crap about it.
Being a sniper back then was like the lowest of the low in jobs. People called me a coward, and that was the nicest thing they said.
So, don't get started on how I must think highly of myself because I was a sniper, nope I did everything I could to get out of it, to no avail.
Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless you were in the military from 1976 on. I don't think there are that many of us still alive.
The only folks that did appreciate us were guys we protected, and there were a few of those guys who gave up crap about not taking out bad guys soon enough. Here's another fantasy you can get rid of, headshots are for movies. Center mass was what we were taught back then. Look it up or talk to someone who did the job back then.
The Thing. A horror classic. No where to run to. More scary than Alien!
Great video. Speaking of "Seven Samurai" you should do a video on the GOAT: Akira Kurosawa.
Absolutely! Kurosawa was not appreciated in Japan. One of the greatest geniuses of cinema. I had a husband who refused to watch anything but top=quality films. His favorite was Kurosawa. Wish there were more pple like him. Maybe we'd have less trash.
Interesting that Fight Club got so beaten upon by reviewers in the US. I remember most reviewers here in Sweden liked it upon release.
Same in the UK. You couldn't watch and advert breaks without it being advertised.
In the first year Blade Runner was screened here in Brazil I saw it 6 up to 9 nine times. Fight Club resonated greatly with me the same way as a kind of mad satyre. a glorious mess of a perverse narrative, deviously funny as Doctor Strangelove, for instance. These films made me very happy, thank God. I am still very grateful for them.
Love the videos, man. Keep it up!!!
Blade runner resonated with me. I had it on beta and when it came out on LaserDisc I bought it. I consider that one of the greatest movies of the 20th century. And I did at the time.
Right on. It was one of those movies I've always wanted to see on the big screen and I finally got a chance a couple of weeks ago. Very memorable experience.
"It's a Wonderful Life" flopped at the box office. It's been a Christmas season favorite ever since.
It depends what people go to the cinema for. In the age of Marvel, all these films would flop
I saw Blade Runner two nights in a row when it first came out in my small home town, opening night and the second night showing. Hardly anyone else was in the theatre. What a bunch of fools!
Now that is enviable. It's finally showing at a local theater on September 30th this year and I can't wait to see it on the big screen.
Me too! loved every minute even though it included Harry's narration.. in this dog's opinion.. Light years ahead of it's time..
@@gregorycarver9256 I like the theatrical release with the narration way more than the later-released director’s cut. Especially because Harrison Ford’s has an uninterested tone of voice, which is because he reluctantly made the voiceover per the studio’s demand to avoid getting sued for breach of contract despite agreeing with Ridley Scott’s objection to it. IMO, it adds a tone of resignation by the protagonist to the story, which contributes to the notion that he was caught up in something he despised but was powerless to fight against.
you go back the CITIZEN KANE, but how about THE GENERAL? SEVEN SAMURAI was also a flop on its initial US release having been grievously cut short
The General, Buster Keaton. A masterpiece of comedy for sure.
21:23 That's the same bank in DTLA that gets robbed in Heat (1995). What film is that?
Two comedies that fit the theme is office space and Idiocracy
I love Idiocracy 😂
IMO, "Blade Runner" had awesome production design, but the plot was kinda boring. They should have kept the sets intact and made another, BETTER movie.
It always starts with Babylon lol
The Babylon featurette where they show the old school movie making is just too good to pass on lol
Heavens gate (1980) is a great example, one of my all time favorites
The studio took the movie away from the director and butchered it to cut it down to a runtime that was at the maximum tolerable length for theatre-released movies at the time. The director’s cut, in contrast, is well worth the slog.
Sadly, it was a vile, speciesist piece of shit, that rightly destroyed Cimino's career.
Great content... I just find the audio kinda muffled...😢
3:15 - there; that's the issue Blade Runner faced. It was a "thinking piece." Thinking is an activity that most Americans shy away from at every opportunity.
Blade Runner was way ahead of its time
Children of Men was a pile of shit. The only reason "artsy" movie fans consider it anything worth watching is all the super long single shot scenes.
More than the commercial flop, these deranged critics simply astonish me. Disgusting those critics.
Can't believe you left out the Wizard of Oz. Its box office flop led to its being a cheap option for tv broadcast, which in turn led to its establishment as a classic.
Sad fact…. I know fight club word for word, and my wife absolutely hates me for it. 😂
Children of men is one of those movies that I liked better than the book. Scary as hell too
Children of Men is another yawn fest with no actual plot or acting. The fact that "film critics" liked it is another indictment.
Mike Judge's films get no respect. Not even from people making lists of such films. I can barely go three days without hearing someone making a reference to either Idiocracy or Office Space. I mean seriously, what other movie could compel an office supply company to expand their product line to include a particularly colored stapler? Ask anyone "what ***are*** electrolytes?" and they're likely to come back at you quoting half the movie.
It's a fair list, although I was kind of bored with Children of Men. Don't forget Scarface and This is Spinal Tap - both flopped at the theatres but found new life on video.
If they were released now, I think James Cameron's "Aliens" would still succeed, and (despite it's technical brilliance) Carpenter's "The Thing" would still flop. One is exciting, with likeable characters and a satisfying ending, while the other (though occasionally exciting) is pretty grim with characters who aren't as quotable, and an ending that is something of a bummer. "The Thing" probably works better in a living room than it ever would in a theatre full of 18 years old's- dragging their girlfriends along with them- in search of a summer thrill ride.
I think that's a wise assessment. Aliens is, for lack of a better word, more of a movie-ish movie than The Thing. More action, a clearly delineated adversary, and, as you say, more exciting. Both are great movies for their own reasons, but Aliens is just more Hollywood, in a way.
What's your opinion of the prequel?
Right off the start I disagree on Battleship. I think it is very entertaining, and sometimes that's all you want from a movie. There are times we look for deep content and extraordinary acting, etc and then there are times you just want to have a good time thats all. Is similar to Smokey and the Bandit, it is just fun.
I tried to watch Citizen Kane again and again and tried to like it. I can’t. It is boring, plot too non subtle, too much overacting, and not pleasant watching. Very overrated in my opinion.
Every movie in this list except _Citizen Kane_ is an adaptation, and all but one is credited as such - but no love for _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_
Ehh with Blade Runner, you can influence film and sci-fi for decades and still be a mediocre movie. Saying it had bad timing because a bunch of better movies came out at the same time is kinda says it all.
John Carpenter's "Elvis" TV biopic from 1979 is also great
A lot of these critics will pan a film because it’s not what they wanted it to be. Today if a superhero movie isn’t loaded with slapstick comedy, with the exception of Batman, they will bash the film. They wanted a campy bad comedy with a non threatening villain not an epic sci-fi, superhero adventure with great acting music, villains, hero, directing, visuals and plot execution.
0:51 looks familiar but I can't place the actress or the movie.
The actress is Joanna Cassidy playing Zhora in Blade Runner
@@Syntopikon Thanks! I guess it has been too long since I've seen the movie.
Whoops - perhaps I should hae said 0:52 - that one isn't Joanna.
I think that's Cynthia Rhodes from Staying Alive, the sequel to Saturday Night Fever.
Yay! I’ve seen all but the last one of these! It’s on my list now 😊
Shawshank Redemption always comes to mind first when I hear this topic
I think it'll be that and Blade Runner for a lot of people (though Blade Runner might just be me projecting).
@@Syntopikon Haha. Love your channel by the way. Keep up the good work!
Maybe we can say the same thing about Dredd (2012), Valerian and Suckerpunch in the future
At long last it's time to talk about Fight Club. I didn't see it when it came out, but everyone, and I mean everyone, talked about it. I'm surprised that it tanked financially. When I did finally see it on DVD, I wished I'd seen it when it came out. I had been noticing the systematic demonization of testosterone in my culture (I'm female from LA) and in film. Just watched it again and each time it gets better. And now, of course, the idiots are making a "girls' version." Thanks for your insightful video. And thanks for your take on Blade Runner. That movie was so good that we just stayed in the theater and saw it again. We told everybody about it, but it was over a year later, in art school, that I realized it had become a cult. Gibson said shortly after it came out that he took a break from writing Neuromancer to go to the movies. But he had to leave after 20 minutes. "There on the screen was everything I had been writing about. I was afraid it would affect my own vision, so I left."
Off the top of my head, I could also name _Heaven's Gate, Sorcerer, The 13th Warrior_ and _John Carter._
Much of John Carpenters filmography
Fight Club didn’t exactly flop. EW gave it a C- and is now considered great.
More great films which flopped:
Dark City
The Rocketeer
Scot Pilgrim
Yup. In general, I feel bad for Alex Proyas because the guy makes some great films.
The Shawshank Redemption. Bad things can happen in Maine
Hyronically, real-life Citizen Kane proved the movie about himself right by doing exactly the same things Orson Welles showed in it...
I would add Speed Racer on this list, the movie flooped but is a movie that came before it should had been release.
Hey it’s wrong but saying a film has not a single redeeming quality and might have to find its audience in hell is a cold line
Sad to think these films floped not because they were bad but because of the year and time they released, to think if the thing and blade runner released before ET
I didn't like ET.
King of comedy
Oh yeh...and another Scorsese, After Hours (1985) which is just a brilliant film, but under-performed, if not flopped.
Yes. My very critical husband loved it.
In Children of Men, the Michael Caine scene where he gets mad while doing Tai Chi is the funniest scene in a non comedy ever
Fight Club did NOT "flop hard" at the box office, that's a lie. It was the #1 movie the 3rd week of October. The blockbuster movies at that time were Phantom Menace, and the 6th Sense, (among others) Fight Club did not flop, it was a different time... how can a movie that cost $60 million to make, but grossed $140 million worldwide, not to mention all the awards it was nominated for, be suggested as a "hard flop"?! It's just ridiculous.
Fight Club is absolutely a modern retelling of a story by Edgar Allen Poe called "William Wilson". For some inexplicable reason NOBODY has ever discussed the absolute truth, nor made the connection. There is no legal reason to avoid admitting this, as all of Poe's tales are in the public domain. If you are a fan of Fight Club, please read this story and you'll understand the origins of F.C.'s major themes. Then post your responses & let me know what revelations you've gained. Thank-you
There’s eight sequences I can think of off the top of my head that are some of the finest oners in history for CoM. That last shot one in the combat zone w/the baby is FIRE.
The Fight Club reviews are why nobody take movies critics seriously any more.
After Earth was NOT a good movie.