I respect Matt for dealing with piglet, dardoch and loco while also trying to improve himself. He was unlucky to be in TL, look at fox, they have such a good team environment despite being last
I don't think so. Regi would get smashed. Regi has his rep cuz of fights with Dyrus but it's fucking Dyrus dude, the guy is the most chill person ever. That's like someone smashing Matt and making a big deal out of it. No shit.
Dardoch and piglet are toxic, but honestly I think 90% of the blame should be at loco. As someone who's coached traditional and a handful of league teams, this man is extremely poor at facilitating productive conversation, accepting responsibility, or building a positive environment. He's less mature than any of the players, and he's supposed to be the emotional leader of the team.
Honestly I cannot agree more. All I got from this was that Loco is a god awful coach with way too big an ego. Every thing he says is with the goal of deflecting blame from himself, not facilitating discussion of helping the team work together.
@@afonflip came a bit late to the party but yeah thats what i noticed immediately as well.they talked about each other as if they weren't even in the same room all the while sitting next to each other. if you wanna make a point and actually solve a conflict, make eye contact and speak directly to the person. this is probably the most simple rule you learn when holding a conversation. but as it was already pointed out multiple times, they acted extremely immature and weren't really respecting each other. even though dardoch said he looked up to piglet as a big brother, they couldn't be in the same team. conflicting personalities right there and don't even get me started on loco.
yo I honestly can't get over the creative direction of that intro the song choice, the imagery with the damn stone horse slowly falling apart in the deep, dark ocean WHO MADE THIS WHY IS IT SO WELL DONE?
Just want to point out that the production on this is legit perfect. Like whoever worked on this all deserve applause and recognition for just how amazingly produced this was.
what piglet said is totally fine, "I'm not a leader, just a player." Not everyone can be a great leader, but a great leader can come from anywhere. the staff was saying you should be the leader because you're the oldest and thats not necessarily true. 1:00:00
I think they're just trying to talk him into being the opposite of a piece of shit. The problem with Piglet wasn't that he wasn't a leader, but that he wasn't a follower. If you can't get a guy to follow you better pray he can lead.
@@Serryy Well it is relevant because Piglet is Korean and he is a complete foreigner in NA. As being said, with less friends and pretty lonely, how should he adapt, if everything he knows comes form Korea.
@@OlafJorigson Him being the oldest doesnt mean that he has to be the leader, especially in western culture. Im not saying anything about him being lonely or not, maybe you replied to the wrong person?
Sebastian Ag Origen is just full of lazy Europeans, I bet they're all great friends but they don't put in the work or the effort. Forgiven left almost immediately because he was pissed off with such a lazy environment.
Matt is honestly my biggest revelation in this documentary. Mature and objective way of thinking, analyzing the problem. The part about people should fix themselves before trying to fix each others is brilliant too bad Loco is just too busy trying to pass the bomb to someone else (players) before it blows to actually take time to think about what Matt said
outlook and understanding isn't everything and cannot always compensate for the gap in skill, matt has always been 1 of the weakest players in LCS doesn't matter how good his attitude is when he constantly underperforms
the problem is its impossible to be perfect and it creates an atmosphere where less skilled players will not be able to give criticism and the higher skilled players will not recieve criticism
Philippe Blanchard I actually disagree. I don't think that anyone can totally solve all their problems, as they're all human. New problems probably come with every game, unless you play every game flawlessly, which obviously isn't the case. I think that nurturing a good team atmosphere where everyone is polite, kind and respectful of each other is far more important. Even if Matt has problems himself, I still think it would be better to politely give suggestions to teammates than bottle everything up. With this, I also think it's his teammates' responsibility to accept the criticism politely and perhaps even point out Matt's issues.
Man I'd love it if we could go back in time and create a movie like this for the bjergsen 1v9 era tsm, clg with doublelift or c9 when hai was jungling.
Thank god Loco is gone. He asks what the players are feeling, and then shits on what they say. Every thought coming out of his mouth is a defensive stance against what his players are telling him directly. Absolutely no class or finesse required to be a coach. Dardoch said it best when talking to Loco: "When you bring up a fault of your own, you bring up someone else's fault, instead of admitting your own fault and trying to fix it." Same goes for actually taking into account the thoughts and feelings of his players, he simply deflects and tries to negate the point entirely. Current iteration of Team Liquid in 2018 seems to operate in an entirely different universe. Hope no one makes the mistake of giving Loco a coaching position again anytime soon. Overall, amazing documentary, and an incredible insight into the minds and activities of the players we see competing each week.
I honestly blame the people that thought it would be a good idea to put him in that position. Hey, here's some kid that plays videogames - perfect counsellor!
Dardoch makes good points but complains he's the only one being called out at one point WHEN HE'S CLEARLY THE ACTUAL PROBLEM. This whole thing was probably so fucking stressful that he couldn't actually see that for himself. Crazy
The only reason why he was stressed out was because the team wasn't cooperating with him, if Locodoco actually helped the team to start fixing those types of problems then Dardoch would be one of the best Junglers for NA. Sadly, that will not happen with Locodoco coaching the team. :\
And the only reason Loco can't help the team is because his players don't want to cooperate? I'm not a Loco fanboy or anything but the problem was definitely both of them.
Matt speakin that truth. "I need to fix myself before I can fix everyone else, that's the coach's job." Then loco's dumb ass saying it's not his job lol.
What are talking about? It's a team sport ain't it? Shouldn't player foster chemistry between themselves rather than the coach playing puzzle piece and assume what a player should do and be?
@@hereticsign if the puzzle dont fit, shouldnt him just throw the one that doesnt fit away? That what they did at least, and even the toxic guy agree that when Pig was move, the chemistry was better and he had best friend and stuff.
@@isaacwilliaiii843 That's the issue there. Loco kept circling around the same issue without ever resolving them. Just because the video shows Dardoch's lashing out or passive-aggressiveness like it's was like this from the beginning, I will never believe that. There is no way Dardoch never told loco about the issues before at least 2 or 3 times and when he saw that nothing changed, he became like that.
Lost all respect for Loco I never knew he was such a TRASH coach. You know there's a problem when the coach is the most emotionally unstable person on the team.
@@nema4250 I just watched this after dardoch's mental boomed after ending up 0-2 in playoffs again. Poor guy was just running it down on udyr spamming zoe emotes once the third game seemed lost. Let's hope he can keep it together till the end of the season
@@nema4250 lol "final" chance. Assuming nobody will sign him again is moronic. He's a poison but plenty of people think they're gonna be the one to cure it. He'll either grow up or he'll continue this streak until his skills fall off enough that he just fades away
This actually gave me insight as to how rough it can be even in these pro teams. For some reason I always had this illusion that they all got along with each other.
Aid I have no idea why he was mad. I remember watching that game. That was literally a historical play that in retrospect was unavoidable. Darshan made a big call and he outplayed them. It was either going to work or it wouldn't. I still have goosbumos from that play
That's because bjergsen and loco had differences with how to play the game. Not surprised though since western coaches get zero respect because the organization thinks the players have the same power as their coaches. Even with parth as their coach, they had one of the best western roster to date and achieved absolutely nothing with horrendous pick and bans and zero improvement in TSM macro play. They basically hired a yes man and got worse internationally.
the reason was pretty extensive. the players on tsm had to wake him up for scrims and treat him like a child because he would throw fits. the players lost all respect for him and couldn't look at him like a superior... i think giving him reign on TL was a horrible decision on the part of steve. loco has a good mind for the game, but he should have no bearing on setting the moral ground for any team.
You say the players but based on TSM legends, only one person that was up front and vocal is bjergsen. Everyone was just quiet. You're using TSM as an example but you forget that 4/5 of the roster got replaced. That's how bad the roster really was. Santorin never ganks. Dyrus never talks. Lustboy is too shy to talk. Wildturtle is wildturtle(not a good thing). Hell, it took FNC to do bad for their coach to get the boot, and 3/5 of the roster replaced. The problem is the hierarchy of players and coaches are on the same level. Any professional team will first use the coach system, and when it doesn't work, then he gets replaced. Simple as that. Right now western coaches are consider scape goats. You know what the scary part is. Do me a favor and go look at oracle elixir. Look at world stats and see which mid laner has the highest gold %. Bjergsen #1/2. I don't think I've ever seen someone given this much resources and never taken the blame once. This person gets more gold invested than faker/crown/maple/kuro/febiven/and many other prominent mid laners. The problem with western organization is that superstar hold so much control that they will never improve as a team. Remember this is the same player who wanted to only play yasuo in the finals, get dumpster, question by reginald, and get excused for forcing the coach to have his picks. Loco is no saint but god damn stop acting like coaches have real influence when organization don't give them the power to insert any action.
I honestly didn't mind their performance this year because I saw it as an improvement rather than a disappointment. I know that they didn't make it out of the groups but the fact that they were close to beating RNG who had UZI, MATA and Looper as compared to Doublelift who was already low on the tank and Hauntzer and Biofrost who have never been in worlds. So I don't think it was that bad this year.
so the reason its hard for loco to be a na coach is the fact that it doesnt matter what he says the players dont respect him because of america culture.
around 22 mins, Dardoch is right about some things. Loco just doesn't put into account a player's feelings and attitude and just says what he wants to say. Like I understand being rude to Dardoch because he's pretty toxic, but holy shit man don't shit on Matt just cause he's trying to give his opinion on what can help the team as a whole. Loco is basically saying like "Well, since you came out with this problem, where's your solution?" Or he brings up the past and makes the whole room go gloom, but the main thing he does, is shift the blame away from himself and back on to the person who told him the problem. But from what I'm getting is, Loco and Piglet have a special friendship/relation and so they're both pretty close, and with this just back up each other most, if not all of the time. Like Piglet, I get Loco is the coach and you should listen to him, but he has some pretty big flaws and shitty ways of trying to help the team. And Like Loco, I know Piglet was a world champion and that he is also Korean, but that doesn't mean you should play favorites at all. One thing that annoys me is specifically when there is arguments, most of the people keep their eye contact to a minimal. It's kind of disrespectful to not be looking at someone when you're talking to them, especially if you're arguing, it makes you seem like you don't give two flying fucks. Another thing, around 42:30, Loco is cursing way tooo much, for no reason. It feels really unneeded.
I understand Loco's problem but I feel we shouldn't look away from Matt's flaws either. Loco was pretty blunt and unprofessional in dealing with the situation but what he said has some truths to it. Matt didn't really want to be friends with Dardoch, Piglet and Loco since they had big personalities even though he himself said they should all be more friendly to each other. It's not a big part of the problem, but Matt is also part of the problem himself and I feel like it's being overlooked here.
@@ruidechen everyone has flaws that's just life. But when u ask your team to help resolve then n then you don't listen n cut them off what are you to do. So of course you don't say anything anymore.
More like a kids coaching kids. Loco isn't even a good coach himself. Teams like this need bootcamp level coaches to control the situation. Loco has no power over them.
That environment is just way too different to him than tsm, the whole liquid roster is just bad chemistry and he doesn't know how to deal with it so he just ends up driving it longer, not saying its his fault that it continues that way or its become that but he needs to take more action
Tons of people who weren't good sport stars later became amazing coaches. EX Phil jackson, Doc River... Dont forget Mj who is one of the greater basketball players of all time but failed at being a ceo of a basketball team. Your argument about him being a bad player is just bad.
“If you make mistakes, it’s hard for me to care about you guys” -Locodoco. The coach. THE COACH. His job is to improve his players, create an environment for learning and try to make the best team possible. How did this guy ever get this job saying crazy shit like this?!?!
Am I really the only one who thinks that Dardoch makes some really good points, yea maybe he actually makes it sound arrogant I still feel like he has a lot of good points most of the time.
I got a hypocritical vibe. He was just up locodoco ass whenever he felt someone got mistreated but would do the same to his teammates. It's like he expected the coach to be more soft with their approach but had no issue with him being an ass to his coworkers. Honestly it felt like he created a hostile environment. KR coaches get respect, western coaches are treated like ass. No wonder west teams are trash compared to LCK.
Gurpreet Basra TBH you have to earn the respect, treating players differently will always lead to players who disrespect you. Idk for sure but wasnt that the reason why Loco got kicked/left TSM? I know this may sound strange but I feel like I kinda would acted the same way as Dardoch maybe not that arrogant but yeah idk... I feel with dardoch somehow
Earn respect? Can you tell me what sports organization has this demand? Seems like a thing that people keep spouting yet here I am watching NHL/MMA/NBA/NFL and this is completely foreign. In Korea they respect their coaches so it just seems like an isolated western league of legends thing where some fan groupies embrace for some odd reason. Loco got kicked because of bjergsen and loco. There is a reason why most Korean players have said it's weird seeing the coach with no authority then western fans go puzzle when there region gets stomped like no tomorrow. Dardoch was even acting the same way with their owner so not sure if that is the behavior you would want to exhibit. In terms of west, you disrespect your star player, you're out. In Korea, you get benched. CLG did much better when they kicked that garbage out.
26:55 - 29:29 Everything can be fixed with a different coach. Communication is not like this when coach shows respect to players and get the respect loco can earn from others. It's obvious that Dardoch lost all respects for Loco
What's the point of a coach in this capacity? He's not really coaching anything... it could just be the way the footage was presented, but it seems Loco is more interested in telling people they're bad, than showing players how to improve
Listening to Loco tilts me hardcore. His interpersonal skills are extremely poor and he is very dismissive and close minded. I don't have the most insight into the situation but from what I've seen I don't think he's a very good coach. Also, talk about an anger issue! Poor keyboard thingie he smashed :o
you gotta remember that this is about the drama and issues in the team, not the good bits so much. not a big fan of loco but yaknow? this isnt really a fair show of his coaching
This is one of the best documentaries of gaming... you can basically see everything that most people wouldn't think of when they hear the term "pro gamer"
@@murdurburd9422 DD always wanted to be on TSM...its a dream come true for him. I have no doubt he'll take the chance with both hands and light a fire under the team's ass!
The owner in this is so spot on with his points. If he was there all along they would have avoided more. But his mediation around 36 minutes is much better than Loco's.
Love the fact that D-Lim is coming in. Loco is just too immature to be a professional coach, and D-Lim seemed calm and relaxed, kind of like Matt. I think the only thing Loco would have over him is experience and game knowledge which is far easier to improve than mentality. Dardoch leaving is also good for the organisation. I hope he finds success on Echo Fox, and I hope he matures as a player.
I know this was 3 years ago but I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that thought Loco was way too immature to be a coach and he’s not even a good coach he’s so basic. God given luck to be hired as a coach for well known teams with *probably* good pay
So I recently led a group of eight 6-8 year olds at a day camp for a week, and there were numerous times throughout the week when there was ridiculous drama between them, and it was always the same 3 or so kids. And I kept having to sit them down and talk to them to get them to try to move past it, and try to improve. And all I can say is watching this documentary I've been constantly reminded of that week and those little kids lol.. Geez, I always thought TL's management sucked, but now I honestly just feel bad for them. I felt so stressed out and at the end of my rope for just a week, if that kept up for months and months on end every single day..? Damn.
I mean tbf these TL players are friends out of game, and it’s not drama, the players and loco are getting constantly frustrated at each other for underperforming and messing up in scrims, and the players get frustrated at loco for the way he coaches (a bit inconsiderately), and they never broke the cycle or got better which led to this implosion
What I got out of this is I learned Loco was an absolute shit coach and I lost a lot of respect for him, and that Piglet is a 2 year old in a man’s body. I gained a lot of respect for Matt. Dardoch honestly doesn’t seem that toxic, he just says it straight and you can either accept or reject it
@@khirsah666 Loco literally coached a team with Dyrus in it to not only win games but be the best team in NA for several splits. It's not like Santorin, Wildturtle and Lustboy were that extraordinary either. So unless you're suggesting Bjergsen literally 1v9 carried every single game they ever won whilst Loco was coach, he must have had at least some positive impact on TSM. The thing was though, whilst most of the TSM players weren't great, they were all decent people personality-wise. That TL squad though was absolute dogshit when it came to personalities. Dardoch had the biggest ego in existence, Piglet thought he was still in Korea where age trumps everything when it comes to prestige and respect, Fenix was Piglet's bitch and just agreed to everything he said, and i'm 100% sure both Matt and Lourlo are somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I'm not saying Loco is in any way a perfect character; he's super immature and will literally defend his bullshit opinions to the point of sounding like a retard, but if you watched this documentary and your only takeaway wass 'Wow Loco sucks' instead of 'wow, everyone on that 2016 TL team sucked', then you're just as dumb as the people in the documentary.
@@chtholly8084 bjerg literally carried 1v9 tho. not saying loco is a bad coach, but bjergsen was the only good player on that team and 1v9 every game xD
Most of the time it was Loco shittalking him tho Sure, he's pretty emotional, but throughout the video you really saw him trying to put in effort changing that fact for the better, whereas Piglet and Loco especially constantly bashed his play (and Loco his personality aswell). Up until the suspension I also thought: "Holy fuck is he toxic - but some truth was in his statements, it's just the way he said it was bad" Loco however just repeated the same shit over and over again, bashing Dardoch, Matt and Piglet for things he could have done better in the way he coaches aswell. (for example the non-verbal/ semi-verbal communication he bashed Dardoch for with his sarcasm - in the exact same clip, he rolled his eyes at Matt... that's plain hypocrisy) After Dardoch was suspended and subbed back in, you saw the growth - he has no perfect mindset but it was better than before. What Dlim said was right. He just needs to let out some steam (you could see that in the 1on1 talk with the owner - after he let out some steam he could think normally and accept his faults). Loco didn't allow that at all, which is why I think the team was that dysfunctional.
What? After Dardoch got subbed back in, sure, they won some games, but then you can hear them in-game where he and (someone else) just doesn't give a fuck and laughs about losing. And that basically made Piglet want to leave the team. When they're locked in for fourth, Dardoch goes off on how he's the only consistent player and how it's fucking embarrassing that his carries don't do shit (damage). Then, later, during the series against CLG, he just says "Give me whatever"..."Let's fucking lose in peace." You say Loco just repeated the same shit, bashing Dardoch, but where was the bashing when Dardoch CONTINUED to act out after he was plugged back into the team (and was supposedly a large factor in Piglet wanting to 'leave' the team). Loco basically stopped challenging Dardoch's bullshit, and Piglet left with his complaints about his jungler. So, now, Dardoch gets to just mouth off every time they start losing. I'm not saying it's Dardoch's fault that the team essentially fell apart, as I think a lot of people are at fault, but I think it's disingenuous to say that he "got better" when the first half of this video is just him arguing with Loco, and then, the second half (after Loco talks with the owner about his attitude) is just Dardoch giving up or just complaining about his teammates. And, in fact, I think the subbing out and then back in only boosted his ego and made it worse, as they had success with him and not the other jungler. He never got a "real" punishment for his attitude until he was removed from the team entirely. And, hopefully, as Dardoch said himself, he's changed and gotten better with handling his emotions and teammates. We'll have to see next split. And again, there should be caution viewing this as we don't see everything. They advertised this movie as uncensored, which may be true (I believe it to be so), but they still decided to pick segments to show in the movie. Maybe Loco did continue to go off on Dardoch off camera, maybe Dardoch was even worse during scrims (they seem to only show LCS game meetings after they get back from Korea), etc.
not sure if you watched the documentary to its end. I agree to your statement for the first 30 minutes. But after that it was only about everyone is trying to help Dardoch out, but he just can`t overcome his Ego. The ultimative highlight was the talk to the team owner, where Dardoch was so unbelievable insulting to everyone surrounding him. I think Loco has to improve a LOT as a coach, but Dardoch is simply this genious kind of player, who will stay uncoachable forever. He can take Rank1 in each region, but a behaviour like this is simply never gonna work, in any circumstances. BTW when I started watching this documentary I hated Loco and just misliked Dardoch, but holy crap i was so missjudging... Like the guy above us said, he is fucking north korean nuclear power station, and who shall work with this kind of weapon?!?!??!
I wish I could talk at my superiors that way and still have a job. Dardoch's* approach & volatility completely takes away from his very valid arguments. And it sucks too because he is clearly a good guy that works hard. If you ever read this bro. You have to understand that you can be respectful and up-front at the same time with the people. And a persons place in the chain of command should strongly influence that ratio. #D5BotLane #FeelsBad
Glenn Gutierrez I'm surprised Steve didn't lose his shit there, I would have completely lost it at that point and go ham on dardoch. You should never talk to a boss like that, ever.
Shows how genuinely shitty of a person Dardoch is. He was probably pampered as a kid and now doesn't know what to do when he doesn't get his way. Doesn't even know how to show respect to his superior ffs.
I can't help but feel for dardoch here. Faaabbyy was a horrible player and I dont think Dardoch should have flamed him, but Piglet and Loco were horrible coworkers. Like neither one of them acknowledged their role they just wanted to blame Dardoch's tilt for all of their problems. Loco, as a supervisor in a professional workplace, should have stayed in an authoritative position instead he got goaded into emotional arguments and Piglet just gave up on playing with TL, TLA is where he belongs
I honostly felt like Loco was the problem. He lacked authority and leadership. When a player is disrespecting you, you have to set them straight. A good Coach needs to be respected by the players.
I'm sure Loco didn't help the situation, but unless Immortals, CLG and maybe even Echo fox and Optic had just as bad coaches as loco...it must be Dardoch being the problem. Because if Loco was the problem, Dardoch would have thrived in other teams.
@@amraouizakaria6097 yea that’s true, but I think most esports coaches (at this time) were prepared to coach gameplay and minor problems, not a major team fallout like this. It’s still his fault, but I don’t think he knew what he was getting into when he took the job.
this just shows the difference in culture of coaching in NA team vs culture in korea. you can't have players disrespecting the coach and vice versa the coach disrespecting the players. the conflict was not just between dardoch and loco or dardoch and piglet. it spread out through the entire team. there needed to be a higher up who put the hammer down, whether that be loco or liquid's owner.
i remember watching the tl rebirth series while it was still being produced and i had such a different idea of what were the issues within this team. im 24 mins in and it's so easy to tell that loco was the biggest problem. he's asking the players what they think the problems are and then asking how they think it could be fixed, but literally does not try to put in any work of his own to help solve them at all. feelsbadman truly unlucky
Yeah but remove Dardoch from the equation and none of it happens. Loco is far from perfect but he had the worst possible situation with a player who brings out the worst in everyone and was insubordinate at every turn. The way he talked to Steve was inexcusable.
TheJodalorn loco said that when he tries to help them be friends, that they all just say they can't be friends, or that their personalities don't mesh lol. I don't think Loco had the best coaching obviously, but this team as a unit was uncoachable.
i think a lot of people confuse his passion for wanting to win as being toxic. Most competitive people including myself do rage but its because we can't accept a loss or things that aren't in our control.
I think if you're going to have "big ego" personalities like Piglet and Dardoch on a team, you *need* to either have them be super-close friends (like SoaZ and xPeke in the old Fnatic glory days - which can only happen "by accident") - or you need to have a *really* strict coach like Deilor. And I know Deilor got a lot of flak after he left by Febiven and even a bit by Huni because they didn't like his strict coaching style, but the thing is: They don't *have* to like it, they just have to be successful (and they were). The idea of the "strict coach" approach (the one were the coach always has the last word and players - even star players - either do what they are told, after giving their input and the coach listening, of course) is *not* to have the head coach be every players "best friend" and talk about their feelings and the players' feelings 24/7, it's to have other people (like the manager, or an analyst or a sports psychologist) be that "friendly guy" and the coach just be a respected person. And it seems to me - judging from this documentary - that Locodoco wasn't really either a "true friend" to the players, nor a "strict coach", he was flip-flopping between the two and that lost him a lot of respect by the players because they didn't know what to think of him and had no real trust in him.
Rewatching this years later.. I can’t help but say the blame for this team crumbling is on Loco’s shoulders. Babying Piglet, defaulting to Piglet, always bickering with Josh, no control over his emotions, incredibly passive aggressive, refusal to accept any level of responsibility, never willing to implement any change in his own part of the team. Always pointing fingers.
Wow, I didn't realize how bad Loco is as a coach. His maturity is the same level as his team's and he needs to be better than that. It's obvious he has no experience at actually being a coach. He would probably be a great strategist, but he has no idea how to coach or lead a team. He just plays the part of a 6th teammate during this whole documentary.
they are far behind yes, but this is by no means a showcase of why. Don't you think some Korean teams have the same issues? Do you really think they are emotional machines? I don't think so. Korea is known for their shit-talk community so.. yea
+Filip Kubaník It's not that, there's a general form of respect you are expected to have of your leaders/elders, and the leaders feel obligated to demand such respect. They innately respect the leaders, it's basically morals over law.
These are young people. I'm pretty sure everyone wants to play his best and wants to win and is dedicated 100%. But my god, they also need a private life with all that goes with it. Give them days off. Don't play 18 hours over weeks. You will gain absolutely nothing. These coaches are beyond terrible at fixing these issues because they're basically kids as well.
You can't just replace people and hope they will click with each other. You can clearly see that in this video. Individual skill is important but it's not the ultimate truth. there are many sports and professions where people compete and do their best and they will not live together for months, share the same rooms, dont have a life outside the game and do nothing else for 18-20 hours per day. These teams need to rethink their work life balance.
Looking at all the comments here it’s hard to believe that people still blame loco. Look at dardoch’s record now. He has fully proven himself to be unmanageable and managed to pull loco down with him.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the very best esports documentaries ever made.
Thooorin Best supporting actor 2016
Thooorin yeah great sample size to say that. Dumb ass Ginger
except for your 3 mins of rant
Wtf is with these guys? lol what you said is spot on
Best because your opinions were finally framed in a documentary? Or best because it's something like the 3rd documentary about esports ever released?
their support player seems to be the only person that understands how people should improve themselves personally.
Matt is by far the most mature guy on that roster... He deserves better. Hopefully their mentality becomes more positive next split
Yeah Matt is my favorite because he is mature and he's actually really good. I hope the rest of Liquid either grow up or he goes somewhere else.
Hawaii people are the most laid back :)
+Shen Kai true, Matt deserves it
I respect Matt for dealing with piglet, dardoch and loco while also trying to improve himself. He was unlucky to be in TL, look at fox, they have such a good team environment despite being last
I would pay to watch Regi and Dardoch talk after a game.
Damn this should be interesting!
i think Regi would put him down like he put down Dyrus
Alex Cayer regi would destroy him
I don't think so. Regi would get smashed. Regi has his rep cuz of fights with Dyrus but it's fucking Dyrus dude, the guy is the most chill person ever. That's like someone smashing Matt and making a big deal out of it. No shit.
Don't think they'd have much trouble because Dardoch is a super try-hard in the game. Regi would respect that as he does in his current players.
"I`m not crazy , i`m just locoo" 32:03
Was looking for that clip lol thanks
Dardoch and piglet are toxic, but honestly I think 90% of the blame should be at loco. As someone who's coached traditional and a handful of league teams, this man is extremely poor at facilitating productive conversation, accepting responsibility, or building a positive environment. He's less mature than any of the players, and he's supposed to be the emotional leader of the team.
J Sung this but i dont see them as toxic, what i do see thou, is they talk abouy their teammates in 3rd person lmao... doomed
Townzie and the team is doing much better without him. GGS has actually played some really good games since he left.
Honestly I cannot agree more. All I got from this was that Loco is a god awful coach with way too big an ego. Every thing he says is with the goal of deflecting blame from himself, not facilitating discussion of helping the team work together.
@@afonflip came a bit late to the party but yeah thats what i noticed immediately as well.they talked about each other as if they weren't even in the same room all the while sitting next to each other. if you wanna make a point and actually solve a conflict, make eye contact and speak directly to the person. this is probably the most simple rule you learn when holding a conversation. but as it was already pointed out multiple times, they acted extremely immature and weren't really respecting each other. even though dardoch said he looked up to piglet as a big brother, they couldn't be in the same team. conflicting personalities right there and don't even get me started on loco.
All three of them share an equal amount of the blame. Loco can't coach, Dardoch and Piglet wont listen.
Dardoch is phd in passive agressiveness
?
so is Loco
the only phd he will ever have
I don't think he was being very passive dude lmfao. He was pretty clearly very aggressive.
Pk3rEvross
yo I honestly can't get over the creative direction of that intro
the song choice, the imagery with the damn stone horse slowly falling apart in the deep, dark ocean
WHO MADE THIS WHY IS IT SO WELL DONE?
Hooks you in hard right?
www.1upstudios.gg
+dia tiu what's the song name I can't find it?
Darude - Sandstorm
Obi-Wan Kenobi it's called Telepathic Humans and it's by the band Lucy. It's on soundcloud and bandcamp
The owner is a better coach than loco, he actually had authority and made an effort to be articulate
Can't believe it's already been over 5 years
Feels like yesterday
Come back once a year for a little ptsd?
This has to be the best esports documentary ever made.
Saqib Mansoor IMO 'The Smash Brothers' by EastPointPictures (Samox) is better. It played a big part in turning an entire community around.
Dota 2 True Sight is much better
Just want to point out that the production on this is legit perfect. Like whoever worked on this all deserve applause and recognition for just how amazingly produced this was.
"I can't fucking save 5 men" described this whole episode lol
I love matts voice.
He's legit fucking dyrus 2.0
I was just thinking that, glad to see it's mutual.
Must be the Hawaiian accent lol
you fucking gay go fuck yourself
Is there something wrong with being gay? No.
Is there something wrong with what you said? Yes.
what piglet said is totally fine, "I'm not a leader, just a player." Not everyone can be a great leader, but a great leader can come from anywhere. the staff was saying you should be the leader because you're the oldest and thats not necessarily true. 1:00:00
I think they're just trying to talk him into being the opposite of a piece of shit. The problem with Piglet wasn't that he wasn't a leader, but that he wasn't a follower. If you can't get a guy to follow you better pray he can lead.
In Korea the culture is the oldest is the leader.
@@ryankotze4717 How is that relevant to NA staff? Also older=leader is a terrible way to think about leadership.
@@Serryy Well it is relevant because Piglet is Korean and he is a complete foreigner in NA. As being said, with less friends and pretty lonely, how should he adapt, if everything he knows comes form Korea.
@@OlafJorigson Him being the oldest doesnt mean that he has to be the leader, especially in western culture. Im not saying anything about him being lonely or not, maybe you replied to the wrong person?
Watching this 5 years later when Dardoch got benched in Dignitas :DD
Now cut💀😂
Jeeebers
lol
this team is a disaster.. i love it.. makes a great film
RIGHT?!
Not as bad as Origen or...?
Sebastian Ag Origen is just full of lazy Europeans, I bet they're all great friends but they don't put in the work or the effort. Forgiven left almost immediately because he was pissed off with such a lazy environment.
the eu dignitas
no loco is.. the way he was fidgeting and flickering the lighter was triggering me too
Matt is honestly my biggest revelation in this documentary. Mature and objective way of thinking, analyzing the problem. The part about people should fix themselves before trying to fix each others is brilliant too bad Loco is just too busy trying to pass the bomb to someone else (players) before it blows to actually take time to think about what Matt said
outlook and understanding isn't everything and cannot always compensate for the gap in skill, matt has always been 1 of the weakest players in LCS doesn't matter how good his attitude is when he constantly underperforms
the problem is its impossible to be perfect and it creates an atmosphere where less skilled players will not be able to give criticism and the higher skilled players will not recieve criticism
Philippe Blanchard I actually disagree. I don't think that anyone can totally solve all their problems, as they're all human. New problems probably come with every game, unless you play every game flawlessly, which obviously isn't the case. I think that nurturing a good team atmosphere where everyone is polite, kind and respectful of each other is far more important. Even if Matt has problems himself, I still think it would be better to politely give suggestions to teammates than bottle everything up. With this, I also think it's his teammates' responsibility to accept the criticism politely and perhaps even point out Matt's issues.
Man I'd love it if we could go back in time and create a movie like this for the bjergsen 1v9 era tsm, clg with doublelift or c9 when hai was jungling.
Thank god Loco is gone. He asks what the players are feeling, and then shits on what they say. Every thought coming out of his mouth is a defensive stance against what his players are telling him directly. Absolutely no class or finesse required to be a coach. Dardoch said it best when talking to Loco: "When you bring up a fault of your own, you bring up someone else's fault, instead of admitting your own fault and trying to fix it." Same goes for actually taking into account the thoughts and feelings of his players, he simply deflects and tries to negate the point entirely. Current iteration of Team Liquid in 2018 seems to operate in an entirely different universe. Hope no one makes the mistake of giving Loco a coaching position again anytime soon.
Overall, amazing documentary, and an incredible insight into the minds and activities of the players we see competing each week.
I honestly blame the people that thought it would be a good idea to put him in that position. Hey, here's some kid that plays videogames - perfect counsellor!
32:04 Loco when Zven threw game 5
Thooorin literally broke down almost half of the conflict in that 30 sec clip and they didn't even give him credit in the description lol
but they did in the credits 1:46:45
Rewatching this to prepare for the sequel
LOL
Loco is the most toxic coach ive ever seen. doesnt respect his own players, or other teams. underestimates everyone.
Well his an asian coach and here in the east coaches.will tend to get strict but i get your point
@@midnightbunnie714 i believe he was wasnt strict enough,there was like no respect towards him,like he was their teammate and not coach.
he's lazy as fuck too
Locos relationship reminds me of my relationship with my dad where he “listens” but never changes. FeelsBadMan FeelsWeirdMan.
Loco should have never been a coach. He was hurting the team instead of helping.
Why does Locodoco swear unnecessarily when explaining things if he wants to be respected? Immature and triggering
He is adapting to the team language common strategy to gain respect in every enviroment
He did the same thing on TSM so no, and how is talking like dardoch gonna get his respect?
he's Asian duh
Dardoch makes good points but complains he's the only one being called out at one point WHEN HE'S CLEARLY THE ACTUAL PROBLEM. This whole thing was probably so fucking stressful that he couldn't actually see that for himself. Crazy
The only reason why he was stressed out was because the team wasn't cooperating with him, if Locodoco actually helped the team to start fixing those types of problems then Dardoch would be one of the best Junglers for NA. Sadly, that will not happen with Locodoco coaching the team. :\
And the only reason Loco can't help the team is because his players don't want to cooperate? I'm not a Loco fanboy or anything but the problem was definitely both of them.
Lol loco is still on TL but dardoch moved to FOX nearly 2 months ago.
Matt speakin that truth. "I need to fix myself before I can fix everyone else, that's the coach's job." Then loco's dumb ass saying it's not his job lol.
thank u for saying this was thinking the exact same
What are talking about? It's a team sport ain't it? Shouldn't player foster chemistry between themselves rather than the coach playing puzzle piece and assume what a player should do and be?
@@isaacwilliaiii843 The coach was playing puzzle pieces and assuming what a player should do.
@@hereticsign if the puzzle dont fit, shouldnt him just throw the one that doesnt fit away? That what they did at least, and even the toxic guy agree that when Pig was move, the chemistry was better and he had best friend and stuff.
@@isaacwilliaiii843 That's the issue there. Loco kept circling around the same issue without ever resolving them. Just because the video shows Dardoch's lashing out or passive-aggressiveness like it's was like this from the beginning, I will never believe that. There is no way Dardoch never told loco about the issues before at least 2 or 3 times and when he saw that nothing changed, he became like that.
Lost all respect for Loco I never knew he was such a TRASH coach. You know there's a problem when the coach is the most emotionally unstable person on the team.
its been well known that Loco is really good analytically at league of legends but he has always had behavioural issues on teams
@@iceicejay9569 He would have been such a good strategic coch but main coch and leader? nah it doesnt fit his skill set
Matt seems to be the most responsible and mature one.
Yes he is
Feels bad when tyler1 is more reformed than piglet
Who's here after Leena talked about nobody wanting Dardoch and Locodoco covering it?
meeee
And now Dignitas is giving the final chance to Dardoch to redeem himself as a player
@@nema4250 dardoch is bad
@@nema4250 I just watched this after dardoch's mental boomed after ending up 0-2 in playoffs again. Poor guy was just running it down on udyr spamming zoe emotes once the third game seemed lost. Let's hope he can keep it together till the end of the season
@@nema4250 lol "final" chance. Assuming nobody will sign him again is moronic. He's a poison but plenty of people think they're gonna be the one to cure it. He'll either grow up or he'll continue this streak until his skills fall off enough that he just fades away
amazing work
This actually gave me insight as to how rough it can be even in these pro teams. For some reason I always had this illusion that they all got along with each other.
And that is not even all of the shit that went down, Dom recalled how supports that played with Piglet would break down crying
32:04 loco breaking the innocent keyboard. RIP XD
Aid I have no idea why he was mad. I remember watching that game. That was literally a historical play that in retrospect was unavoidable. Darshan made a big call and he outplayed them. It was either going to work or it wouldn't. I still have goosbumos from that play
cus they lost you fucken idiot. "no idea why he was mad" you fucken stupid child
HE MUST HAVE ONLY THOUGHT IT WAS ONE
This could be the reason why locodoco is not a coach for tsm
That's because bjergsen and loco had differences with how to play the game. Not surprised though since western coaches get zero respect because the organization thinks the players have the same power as their coaches. Even with parth as their coach, they had one of the best western roster to date and achieved absolutely nothing with horrendous pick and bans and zero improvement in TSM macro play. They basically hired a yes man and got worse internationally.
the reason was pretty extensive. the players on tsm had to wake him up for scrims and treat him like a child because he would throw fits. the players lost all respect for him and couldn't look at him like a superior... i think giving him reign on TL was a horrible decision on the part of steve. loco has a good mind for the game, but he should have no bearing on setting the moral ground for any team.
You say the players but based on TSM legends, only one person that was up front and vocal is bjergsen. Everyone was just quiet. You're using TSM as an example but you forget that 4/5 of the roster got replaced. That's how bad the roster really was. Santorin never ganks. Dyrus never talks. Lustboy is too shy to talk. Wildturtle is wildturtle(not a good thing). Hell, it took FNC to do bad for their coach to get the boot, and 3/5 of the roster replaced. The problem is the hierarchy of players and coaches are on the same level. Any professional team will first use the coach system, and when it doesn't work, then he gets replaced. Simple as that. Right now western coaches are consider scape goats.
You know what the scary part is. Do me a favor and go look at oracle elixir. Look at world stats and see which mid laner has the highest gold %. Bjergsen #1/2. I don't think I've ever seen someone given this much resources and never taken the blame once. This person gets more gold invested than faker/crown/maple/kuro/febiven/and many other prominent mid laners. The problem with western organization is that superstar hold so much control that they will never improve as a team. Remember this is the same player who wanted to only play yasuo in the finals, get dumpster, question by reginald, and get excused for forcing the coach to have his picks. Loco is no saint but god damn stop acting like coaches have real influence when organization don't give them the power to insert any action.
I honestly didn't mind their performance this year because I saw it as an improvement rather than a disappointment. I know that they didn't make it out of the groups but the fact that they were close to beating RNG who had UZI, MATA and Looper as compared to Doublelift who was already low on the tank and Hauntzer and Biofrost who have never been in worlds. So I don't think it was that bad this year.
so the reason its hard for loco to be a na coach is the fact that it doesnt matter what he says the players dont respect him because of america culture.
holy shit this is stressful to watch
*Thtrethful
+Marcsman07 LOOOOOOOL
loco?
same
at any point do they just start committing acts of cannibalism?
4:05 Before the name Dardoch comes in, slow the video down, LOL.
Look at the name
holy shit, how did you catch that lol
Lol Dont kwon, but on every player name has one meme
Diego L. Lol
Holy shit, good catch
lmao
I've never seen a video about league so well put together, ty for this
This has been such an inspiration and quite possibly the best lol related documentary I've ever had the enjoyment of watching.
around 22 mins, Dardoch is right about some things. Loco just doesn't put into account a player's feelings and attitude and just says what he wants to say. Like I understand being rude to Dardoch because he's pretty toxic, but holy shit man don't shit on Matt just cause he's trying to give his opinion on what can help the team as a whole. Loco is basically saying like "Well, since you came out with this problem, where's your solution?" Or he brings up the past and makes the whole room go gloom, but the main thing he does, is shift the blame away from himself and back on to the person who told him the problem.
But from what I'm getting is, Loco and Piglet have a special friendship/relation and so they're both pretty close, and with this just back up each other most, if not all of the time. Like Piglet, I get Loco is the coach and you should listen to him, but he has some pretty big flaws and shitty ways of trying to help the team. And Like Loco, I know Piglet was a world champion and that he is also Korean, but that doesn't mean you should play favorites at all.
One thing that annoys me is specifically when there is arguments, most of the people keep their eye contact to a minimal. It's kind of disrespectful to not be looking at someone when you're talking to them, especially if you're arguing, it makes you seem like you don't give two flying fucks.
Another thing, around 42:30, Loco is cursing way tooo much, for no reason. It feels really unneeded.
I understand Loco's problem but I feel we shouldn't look away from Matt's flaws either. Loco was pretty blunt and unprofessional in dealing with the situation but what he said has some truths to it. Matt didn't really want to be friends with Dardoch, Piglet and Loco since they had big personalities even though he himself said they should all be more friendly to each other. It's not a big part of the problem, but Matt is also part of the problem himself and I feel like it's being overlooked here.
@@ruidechen everyone has flaws that's just life. But when u ask your team to help resolve then n then you don't listen n cut them off what are you to do. So of course you don't say anything anymore.
Welcome to NA, Not only is solo que trash, but Half the teams in LCS can’t even get their shit together 🤦🏻♂️
Dysfunctional. Never knew it was this severe, to coach a team full of kids.
Team full of kids coached by a kid. Woo
Haste I think Dardoch was the main problem. The rest of them are fine.
More like a kids coaching kids. Loco isn't even a good coach himself. Teams like this need bootcamp level coaches to control the situation. Loco has no power over them.
THe worst part of it all is that you get degraded to their level and makes all things worst.
I think Dardoch is actually not the problem because the arguments that he brought is very true and he have evidences to back it up.
The intro was dope
Loco contradicts himself so much wtf
That environment is just way too different to him than tsm, the whole liquid roster is just bad chemistry and he doesn't know how to deal with it so he just ends up driving it longer, not saying its his fault that it continues that way or its become that but he needs to take more action
loco was never a good player. why is he even hired as a coach?
Tons of people who weren't good sport stars later became amazing coaches. EX Phil jackson, Doc River... Dont forget Mj who is one of the greater basketball players of all time but failed at being a ceo of a basketball team. Your argument about him being a bad player is just bad.
@@vFunz Kinda ironic now right
@@letsgetit90 Right, except Loco is both a shit player and shit coach...
“If you make mistakes, it’s hard for me to care about you guys” -Locodoco. The coach. THE COACH. His job is to improve his players, create an environment for learning and try to make the best team possible. How did this guy ever get this job saying crazy shit like this?!?!
Am I really the only one who thinks that Dardoch makes some really good points, yea maybe he actually makes it sound arrogant I still feel like he has a lot of good points most of the time.
I got a hypocritical vibe. He was just up locodoco ass whenever he felt someone got mistreated but would do the same to his teammates. It's like he expected the coach to be more soft with their approach but had no issue with him being an ass to his coworkers. Honestly it felt like he created a hostile environment. KR coaches get respect, western coaches are treated like ass. No wonder west teams are trash compared to LCK.
Gurpreet Basra TBH you have to earn the respect, treating players differently will always lead to players who disrespect you. Idk for sure but wasnt that the reason why Loco got kicked/left TSM? I know this may sound strange but I feel like I kinda would acted the same way as Dardoch maybe not that arrogant but yeah idk... I feel with dardoch somehow
Earn respect? Can you tell me what sports organization has this demand? Seems like a thing that people keep spouting yet here I am watching NHL/MMA/NBA/NFL and this is completely foreign. In Korea they respect their coaches so it just seems like an isolated western league of legends thing where some fan groupies embrace for some odd reason.
Loco got kicked because of bjergsen and loco. There is a reason why most Korean players have said it's weird seeing the coach with no authority then western fans go puzzle when there region gets stomped like no tomorrow. Dardoch was even acting the same way with their owner so not sure if that is the behavior you would want to exhibit. In terms of west, you disrespect your star player, you're out. In Korea, you get benched. CLG did much better when they kicked that garbage out.
TurkishEleven yeah I mean he's not entirely wrong, he has his points, he's just too aggressive in talking, and can't stand losses
usually coaches have a reputation and know what the fuck they're doing. How is any player supposed to take a butthurt emo like loco serious?
23 minutes in and straight up the answer here is a new coach
Who else here after the Listen Loco blow up?
what blow up ??
i don't think they will make any other episodes loco didn't even post the blast episode (#97)
Just look at the Twitter
TSM DARDOCH TAKING DOWN THE TL IN THE FINALES THATS THE DESTINY LETS GO
PrettyTSoul did you proofread the script?
lets gooo
Lets goo
Not gonna happen lmao
TL then and TL now is completely different. loco is gone, piglet is gone, and fenix is gone
26:55 - 29:29 Everything can be fixed with a different coach. Communication is not like this when coach shows respect to players and get the respect loco can earn from others. It's obvious that Dardoch lost all respects for Loco
What's the point of a coach in this capacity? He's not really coaching anything... it could just be the way the footage was presented, but it seems Loco is more interested in telling people they're bad, than showing players how to improve
LordTwan plus he has to waste 75% of his time babysitting kids like dardoch and piglet
Listening to Loco tilts me hardcore. His interpersonal skills are extremely poor and he is very dismissive and close minded. I don't have the most insight into the situation but from what I've seen I don't think he's a very good coach. Also, talk about an anger issue! Poor keyboard thingie he smashed :o
I mean, English isn't his first language, and he's an import so maybe he doesn't pick up on the American social queues as well as a coach should
you gotta remember that this is about the drama and issues in the team, not the good bits so much. not a big fan of loco but yaknow? this isnt really a fair show of his coaching
Ya I get that, but even when I was watching the TSM vlogs it felt like the same thing
my body is ready to see some tl problems.
After watching this, I really appreciate Matt as a person and hope he can find better teammates :)
This is one of the best documentaries of gaming... you can basically see everything that most people wouldn't think of when they hear the term "pro gamer"
TSM TSM TSM! Dardoch has joined the black and white!
This can only end in 1 of 2 ways for TSM. They win the split, or Dardoch is gone for Summer split lol.
@@murdurburd9422 DD always wanted to be on TSM...its a dream come true for him. I have no doubt he'll take the chance with both hands and light a fire under the team's ass!
Breaking Point 2 when??
@@Aljeron100 when TL dont make semi's next split.
Finally, we can see someone call Bjergsen a cuck to his face and call Regi a retard and get into a fistfight with him.
The owner in this is so spot on with his points. If he was there all along they would have avoided more. But his mediation around 36 minutes is much better than Loco's.
Dardoch is toxic, but he has his points, he's not entirely wrong
and if Loco calls that coaching, everyone can coach
everyone can become a coach, but not everyone can become a good coach
Now he’s on tsm. Hype
his toxicity wears down his team mates and make them perform worse. so no, he doesn't have a point.
How many teams has he been on? He's wrong.
Team Liquid? More like Team Acne.
LMAO MAN LMAO
I noticed that too lmfao.
hahahahaha
Kurama363 Not Dardoch
how is it funny ? acne is normal
....
I'm rewatching this documentary so I won't get confused for its UPCOMING SEQUEL AHHHHHHH
Piglet is an actual man child holy shit lmaooo
yeah ikr lmfao
What’s a man child?
@@Jasongy827 a very inmature person
E. Moonbound thank you. I don’t get people terms, I heard he is hard and like stubborn to work with
@@Jasongy827 man child again.
Love the fact that D-Lim is coming in. Loco is just too immature to be a professional coach, and D-Lim seemed calm and relaxed, kind of like Matt. I think the only thing Loco would have over him is experience and game knowledge which is far easier to improve than mentality. Dardoch leaving is also good for the organisation. I hope he finds success on Echo Fox, and I hope he matures as a player.
I know this was 3 years ago but I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that thought Loco was way too immature to be a coach and he’s not even a good coach he’s so basic. God given luck to be hired as a coach for well known teams with *probably* good pay
From this to back-to-back LCS champions.
Funny what money can buy.
back-to-back-to-back
Back-to-back-to-back-to-back to...oh wait
BennyG XD
I noticed that Loco does not even look at Dardoch at all and it just seems crazy to me the lack of leadership loco had.
So I recently led a group of eight 6-8 year olds at a day camp for a week, and there were numerous times throughout the week when there was ridiculous drama between them, and it was always the same 3 or so kids. And I kept having to sit them down and talk to them to get them to try to move past it, and try to improve. And all I can say is watching this documentary I've been constantly reminded of that week and those little kids lol.. Geez, I always thought TL's management sucked, but now I honestly just feel bad for them. I felt so stressed out and at the end of my rope for just a week, if that kept up for months and months on end every single day..? Damn.
I mean tbf these TL players are friends out of game, and it’s not drama, the players and loco are getting constantly frustrated at each other for underperforming and messing up in scrims, and the players get frustrated at loco for the way he coaches (a bit inconsiderately), and they never broke the cycle or got better which led to this implosion
What I got out of this is I learned Loco was an absolute shit coach and I lost a lot of respect for him, and that Piglet is a 2 year old in a man’s body. I gained a lot of respect for Matt. Dardoch honestly doesn’t seem that toxic, he just says it straight and you can either accept or reject it
i mean we only got to see the side tl put out. cant solely judge everything based on this. We dont know the full picture
I don't know how anyone thought it was good idea to let loco coach tbh.
@@khirsah666 Loco literally coached a team with Dyrus in it to not only win games but be the best team in NA for several splits. It's not like Santorin, Wildturtle and Lustboy were that extraordinary either. So unless you're suggesting Bjergsen literally 1v9 carried every single game they ever won whilst Loco was coach, he must have had at least some positive impact on TSM. The thing was though, whilst most of the TSM players weren't great, they were all decent people personality-wise. That TL squad though was absolute dogshit when it came to personalities. Dardoch had the biggest ego in existence, Piglet thought he was still in Korea where age trumps everything when it comes to prestige and respect, Fenix was Piglet's bitch and just agreed to everything he said, and i'm 100% sure both Matt and Lourlo are somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I'm not saying Loco is in any way a perfect character; he's super immature and will literally defend his bullshit opinions to the point of sounding like a retard, but if you watched this documentary and your only takeaway wass 'Wow Loco sucks' instead of 'wow, everyone on that 2016 TL team sucked', then you're just as dumb as the people in the documentary.
@@chtholly8084 bjerg literally carried 1v9 tho. not saying loco is a bad coach, but bjergsen was the only good player on that team and 1v9 every game xD
@@chtholly8084 yed bjerg 1v9. Also not just that documentary. There's a lot of shit he says makes you think "who would hire this guy??".
holy shit now we know how toxic dardoch is
NOW you know?
sneakyGasm knew he was toxic, but not a fucking north korean nuclear power station
Most of the time it was Loco shittalking him tho
Sure, he's pretty emotional, but throughout the video you really saw him trying to put in effort changing that fact for the better, whereas Piglet and Loco especially constantly bashed his play (and Loco his personality aswell).
Up until the suspension I also thought: "Holy fuck is he toxic - but some truth was in his statements, it's just the way he said it was bad"
Loco however just repeated the same shit over and over again, bashing Dardoch, Matt and Piglet for things he could have done better in the way he coaches aswell. (for example the non-verbal/ semi-verbal communication he bashed Dardoch for with his sarcasm - in the exact same clip, he rolled his eyes at Matt... that's plain hypocrisy)
After Dardoch was suspended and subbed back in, you saw the growth - he has no perfect mindset but it was better than before. What Dlim said was right. He just needs to let out some steam (you could see that in the 1on1 talk with the owner - after he let out some steam he could think normally and accept his faults). Loco didn't allow that at all, which is why I think the team was that dysfunctional.
What? After Dardoch got subbed back in, sure, they won some games, but then you can hear them in-game where he and (someone else) just doesn't give a fuck and laughs about losing. And that basically made Piglet want to leave the team. When they're locked in for fourth, Dardoch goes off on how he's the only consistent player and how it's fucking embarrassing that his carries don't do shit (damage). Then, later, during the series against CLG, he just says "Give me whatever"..."Let's fucking lose in peace."
You say Loco just repeated the same shit, bashing Dardoch, but where was the bashing when Dardoch CONTINUED to act out after he was plugged back into the team (and was supposedly a large factor in Piglet wanting to 'leave' the team).
Loco basically stopped challenging Dardoch's bullshit, and Piglet left with his complaints about his jungler. So, now, Dardoch gets to just mouth off every time they start losing.
I'm not saying it's Dardoch's fault that the team essentially fell apart, as I think a lot of people are at fault, but I think it's disingenuous to say that he "got better" when the first half of this video is just him arguing with Loco, and then, the second half (after Loco talks with the owner about his attitude) is just Dardoch giving up or just complaining about his teammates. And, in fact, I think the subbing out and then back in only boosted his ego and made it worse, as they had success with him and not the other jungler.
He never got a "real" punishment for his attitude until he was removed from the team entirely. And, hopefully, as Dardoch said himself, he's changed and gotten better with handling his emotions and teammates. We'll have to see next split.
And again, there should be caution viewing this as we don't see everything. They advertised this movie as uncensored, which may be true (I believe it to be so), but they still decided to pick segments to show in the movie. Maybe Loco did continue to go off on Dardoch off camera, maybe Dardoch was even worse during scrims (they seem to only show LCS game meetings after they get back from Korea), etc.
not sure if you watched the documentary to its end. I agree to your statement for the first 30 minutes. But after that it was only about everyone is trying to help Dardoch out, but he just can`t overcome his Ego. The ultimative highlight was the talk to the team owner, where Dardoch was so unbelievable insulting to everyone surrounding him. I think Loco has to improve a LOT as a coach, but Dardoch is simply this genious kind of player, who will stay uncoachable forever. He can take Rank1 in each region, but a behaviour like this is simply never gonna work, in any circumstances.
BTW when I started watching this documentary I hated Loco and just misliked Dardoch, but holy crap i was so missjudging... Like the guy above us said, he is fucking north korean nuclear power station, and who shall work with this kind of weapon?!?!??!
I wish I could talk at my superiors that way and still have a job. Dardoch's* approach & volatility completely takes away from his very valid arguments. And it sucks too because he is clearly a good guy that works hard.
If you ever read this bro. You have to understand that you can be respectful and up-front at the same time with the people. And a persons place in the chain of command should strongly influence that ratio.
#D5BotLane
#FeelsBad
1:16:25 - Are you out of your God damn mind? This is the guy that pays your salary and this how you act?!
Glenn Gutierrez i would of fired him
Glenn Gutierrez I'm surprised Steve didn't lose his shit there, I would have completely lost it at that point and go ham on dardoch. You should never talk to a boss like that, ever.
Shows how genuinely shitty of a person Dardoch is. He was probably pampered as a kid and now doesn't know what to do when he doesn't get his way. Doesn't even know how to show respect to his superior ffs.
That's one of the reasons why steve is a millionaire
DoreP
that doesn't mean you can just show disrespect to your boss. lol
why is the team called: "team liquid" because the team isnt solid.
This was so good to watch...more pro team documentaries please. I'll pay real people money to see why lift lift went on hiatus from TSM
this team needs to invest in a sports psychologists like TSM god damn
Bingo im pretty sure if they got a sports psychologist going into summer split, they wouldn't have split up but i dont know if they would have won.
Yep .. and they even made it to worlds with that .... but ... *Koreans*
I can't help but feel for dardoch here. Faaabbyy was a horrible player and I dont think Dardoch should have flamed him, but Piglet and Loco were horrible coworkers. Like neither one of them acknowledged their role they just wanted to blame Dardoch's tilt for all of their problems. Loco, as a supervisor in a professional workplace, should have stayed in an authoritative position instead he got goaded into emotional arguments and Piglet just gave up on playing with TL, TLA is where he belongs
I honostly felt like Loco was the problem. He lacked authority and leadership. When a player is disrespecting you, you have to set them straight. A good Coach needs to be respected by the players.
I'm sure Loco didn't help the situation, but unless Immortals, CLG and maybe even Echo fox and Optic had just as bad coaches as loco...it must be Dardoch being the problem.
Because if Loco was the problem, Dardoch would have thrived in other teams.
Let’s be honest the whole team just imploded you can’t place blame on one person. The only person you can’t blame is Matt
I agree that every player had a part in this mess, but you know who was paid to prevent this? Loco
@@amraouizakaria6097 yea that’s true, but I think most esports coaches (at this time) were prepared to coach gameplay and minor problems, not a major team fallout like this. It’s still his fault, but I don’t think he knew what he was getting into when he took the job.
this just shows the difference in culture of coaching in NA team vs culture in korea. you can't have players disrespecting the coach and vice versa the coach disrespecting the players. the conflict was not just between dardoch and loco or dardoch and piglet. it spread out through the entire team. there needed to be a higher up who put the hammer down, whether that be loco or liquid's owner.
i remember watching the tl rebirth series while it was still being produced and i had such a different idea of what were the issues within this team. im 24 mins in and it's so easy to tell that loco was the biggest problem. he's asking the players what they think the problems are and then asking how they think it could be fixed, but literally does not try to put in any work of his own to help solve them at all. feelsbadman truly unlucky
Yeah but remove Dardoch from the equation and none of it happens. Loco is far from perfect but he had the worst possible situation with a player who brings out the worst in everyone and was insubordinate at every turn. The way he talked to Steve was inexcusable.
Matt makes amazing points about how they need to focus on being actual friends. Loco just shuts him down on it too. =(
TheJodalorn loco said that when he tries to help them be friends, that they all just say they can't be friends, or that their personalities don't mesh lol. I don't think Loco had the best coaching obviously, but this team as a unit was uncoachable.
Dude piglet being down like that 59:00 almost made me cry. Former world champion shattered like this.. Damn
Why does liquid always have toxic jungles lol
to be fair, IWD was/is toxic, but no where near as toxic as dardoch.
yeah Dardoch is more toxic than IWD and WAYYYY more stubborn than IWD.
i think a lot of people confuse his passion for wanting to win as being toxic. Most competitive people including myself do rage but its because we can't accept a loss or things that aren't in our control.
Dardoch is not toxic he appears to be actually speaking his mind, the rest thou appear shook and speechless which implies that he is right
afonflip 100% right, team was garbage, he wasn't.. What do you expect him to do?
Watching this is giving me anxiety already, can't imagine how the players felt at the time.
Actually a great video that gives very deep insight.
You know shit is going down when the Team Liquid Horse is drowning in the ocean
I think if you're going to have "big ego" personalities like Piglet and Dardoch on a team, you *need* to either have them be super-close friends (like SoaZ and xPeke in the old Fnatic glory days - which can only happen "by accident") - or you need to have a *really* strict coach like Deilor.
And I know Deilor got a lot of flak after he left by Febiven and even a bit by Huni because they didn't like his strict coaching style, but the thing is: They don't *have* to like it, they just have to be successful (and they were).
The idea of the "strict coach" approach (the one were the coach always has the last word and players - even star players - either do what they are told, after giving their input and the coach listening, of course) is *not* to have the head coach be every players "best friend" and talk about their feelings and the players' feelings 24/7, it's to have other people (like the manager, or an analyst or a sports psychologist) be that "friendly guy" and the coach just be a respected person.
And it seems to me - judging from this documentary - that Locodoco wasn't really either a "true friend" to the players, nor a "strict coach", he was flip-flopping between the two and that lost him a lot of respect by the players because they didn't know what to think of him and had no real trust in him.
they fucking need to be good first like Faker or Pray or Deft not just go and feed his ass then complain with a big ego
Rewatching this years later.. I can’t help but say the blame for this team crumbling is on Loco’s shoulders.
Babying Piglet, defaulting to Piglet, always bickering with Josh, no control over his emotions, incredibly passive aggressive, refusal to accept any level of responsibility, never willing to implement any change in his own part of the team. Always pointing fingers.
1:16:30 young boy be flaming his own CEO lmao
Wow, I didn't realize how bad Loco is as a coach. His maturity is the same level as his team's and he needs to be better than that. It's obvious he has no experience at actually being a coach. He would probably be a great strategist, but he has no idea how to coach or lead a team. He just plays the part of a 6th teammate during this whole documentary.
Another great example showcasing why NA is so far behind internationally.
Jo Momma HAHAHA ?
they are far behind yes, but this is by no means a showcase of why. Don't you think some Korean teams have the same issues? Do you really think they are emotional machines? I don't think so. Korea is known for their shit-talk community so.. yea
Koreans have another mentality, nobody has the balls to argue with coach.
How does this showcase why? You act as if every team has the same internal problems as Liquid...
+Filip Kubaník It's not that, there's a general form of respect you are expected to have of your leaders/elders, and the leaders feel obligated to demand such respect. They innately respect the leaders, it's basically morals over law.
I can respect Dardoch even more after watching this, he stands his ground glad to see he's finally found a good environment for himself in echo fox.
This aged well.
he is now in academy for optic lmao
how have I not heard of this documentary until just now, how doesn't this even have a million views??
i PRAY tsm legends turns into breaking point v2
Well Steve handled Dardoch a lot better than Loco did. The difference between how the conversations went are like worlds apart jesus.
These are young people. I'm pretty sure everyone wants to play his best and wants to win and is dedicated 100%. But my god, they also need a private life with all that goes with it. Give them days off. Don't play 18 hours over weeks. You will gain absolutely nothing. These coaches are beyond terrible at fixing these issues because they're basically kids as well.
they have to dedicate alot of time or else someone else can replace them
They have to dedicate this much time to the game, else koreans will keep winning worlds
You can't just replace people and hope they will click with each other. You can clearly see that in this video. Individual skill is important but it's not the ultimate truth. there are many sports and professions where people compete and do their best and they will not live together for months, share the same rooms, dont have a life outside the game and do nothing else for 18-20 hours per day. These teams need to rethink their work life balance.
obviously you haven't seen the Korean training regime
Hugh Janus korean strategy is WAY more efficient and more effective; therefore they have advanced knowledge and are always ahead of every other region
"Hi, I'm loco! For those of you that don't know that well, I'm a player, turned coach, turned content creator, turned therapist!"
the intro is sick with the logo being thorn to pieces which is breaking point
Still can't believe Matt sat on this team and paycheck stole for years while being a D tier support at best & they never thought to change him out.
Looking at all the comments here it’s hard to believe that people still blame loco. Look at dardoch’s record now. He has fully proven himself to be unmanageable and managed to pull loco down with him.
1 year left till breaking point part 2 guys :D gl TSM
they don't have loco or piglet, 2 integral pieces for breaking point
great episode of thorin's thoughts!
Doublelift single-handedly bringing this to 1 million views
Lol, when loco said he thought dardoch was going to cry... there's no fucking shot. That was a passive aggressive move.