I have a similar background to you and have just started deconstructing this year after a Mindshift video randomly appeared in my feed and hit me like a sledgehammer. The way you speak about your path is very effective. Just subscribed to your channel.
How do you sleep knowing that all the people that you pastored will probably suffer because of you? And I don’t mean missing heaven or going to hell…. If they follow your example of deconvertion , it could cost them family ties, jobs, psychological issues, friends, social identity, etc.
Former Pentecostal kid here. I was even a youth pastor, associate pastor, and even did some evangelist preaching for a bit. Of course, I am a full-blown heathen now. lol
Pastors are special people (mostly). What I love about pastors who have walked away, is that they still have the "vibe". The kindness, the caring instruction, the genuine care for truth - they are the same as they were when they "believed"and we still need you. You are a service to the community and have so much more to share and help those of us who have left. I wish there were some unchurches sprouting up to still have that community and support.
Maybe some new kind of community groups will gather, and not need to reference church (even unchurch) in the way they work. I do agree that kindness, learning together, and liking the truth are strengths in any community.
Being from another country one thing that I noticed you guys don't have here is "association". It's just an entity which the goal is not to make money but to do some activities in a group.
Don't blame ya. Wish I'd had the strength to not buckle under to my elders' teaching on that one so easily. I do remember feeling very anxious about the Abraham and Isaac thing, and having to kind of reason myself out of that anxiety- if you can call it reasoning when what I was doing was laying "but God is all good" over my own true feelings.
@@thewandering8659 that book of Job is the most disturbing!, and you know what philosophy I have?...... That when you are through adolescents from age 4-13-ish is the perfect time to start questioning the Bible because kids ain't stupid, the wise kids could say, "Hey wait a min. Something's not right here" 🤔
This is the truth. We had a pastor once who told us we needed to tithe more because he needed a new Porsche. He hadn’t taken any “poverty vows”. Lol. Ya he got kicked out for messing with young girls not too long after. 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Use it as a reminder and another learning opportunity. Weve all made mistakes in belief . Beliefs are highly overrated , often keading to delusions , and are potentially dangerous. Embarrassment ,in this case, is a concerned friend who doesn't want you to make the mistake of eagerly wading into deep waters imagining its a nice soft welcoming bed.
I have to say. I have watched all your videos Tim. And while I always love them, this one was just the best. ❤ Yes, maybe it was the double “blessing” of watching the Timothys together? I can relate to almost everything you both were saying, from longing for heaven with all my heart, to serving as a missionary, to years dedicated to the church. Yet, it cannot compete with what I observed in the world around me. The beautiful people outside of “god’s” chosen few and the lack of answers to honest, heart-wrenching prayers. The best RUclips channel would be you 2 just doing more life together for all of us. I’d take that video every Wednesday and Sunday 🎉. Thanks for all you both do! It matters for the one person who hears and believes.
There is no recorded account of ancient shepherds "breaking" the legs of sheep. That practice would have killed or traumatized the animal. What shepherds did do was put a "brake" or weight on a rogue sheep to slow it down.
I think we should be compassionate with ourselves. I don't feel like I owe apologies to people about my christianity days. It's something that is forced on pretty much everybody before they can even say a word. I was sincere in what I believed and cared about the people I ministered to. I don't preach anymore, I don't say I will pray for you or do the christian things anymore and I let other people walk their own walk and if they are interested in my opinion I will let them know. Thanks Tim and Timmy.
Great point. I thought the exact same things on occasion while listening to this video that he, and ourselves included, should be more gracious and compassionate to our previous selves bc we did the best we could with what we had and we were very sincere, even if we were misdirected. I still struggle with that sometimes too though.
Codependency “feels” like a good thing ? That is a rhetorical question btw. 😂. I thought codependency was unhealthy. Just my opinion. It’s about biology , hormones and evolution, perhaps ?
@@bernardofitzpatrick5403 people define the term codependency differently. Some think of it as a pattern of behaviors, or as a role in relationships. I think of it as the deep emotional dependency that we have on other people. Call it limerence, trauma bond. I don't know. But that connection often gets mistaken for the voice of God, or the leading and guidance of God.
I still believe in God and the supernatural. I love all your programs. I am a deconstructed Christian. I believe most deconstructed religious folks are the most honest humble people.
A genuine question... what does it mean to be a deconstructed Christian and also believe in God and the supernatural? Do you believe in Allah now or a deistic God... just curious what it is.
@@junglelee1765 For all atheist answer that egg before hen or hen before egg who came first and how they exist suddenly, if they suddenly exist why not God exist
46:10 Wow. I've heard this a few times from ex-pastors, but its always a WOW! moment to hear it again. Basically the conservative congregation will not accept anything new and would rather be lied to than taught a new truth .
I recall Reggie White saying that "God told me I should go to Green Bay." Of course it just so happened that Green Bay was offering him the most money! 😂😂
Another ex-Christian here. Thanks for this awesome video. It was my everything too. I’m sick of being told I wasn’t sincere or I would have stayed Christian. Without keeping people terrified of hell there would not be one single Christian.
@sandracampbell9822, Of course you made the right decision, for why would a healthy person like you need a doctor for? The Lord Jesus Christ? That a person thereby opens the doors of the soul wide to the cunning evil spirits that take possession of man? We'd rather not think about that..
Total lie....Jesus Christ quite literally saved my life from the world of meth/whoredom.Staying out of hell,your house with your daddy,just happens to be a bonus.My Father is full of a beauty and kindness i never experienced with your dad.I'm so sorry you have chosen such a deception over your Creator and Savior.Pretty dumb,but that's on you.I truly pray you come with us while there is still time!Your friend ,Brent
Yup. Fear of hell is the threat they have to have. So effing sick of the idea that I was never sincere or I would have stayed. Maybe that’s how they can justify shunning us.
@@djenkins555 But He had initially, chosen to conceal himself. And we cannot look at Him - except via, His hindparts. So it's a bit hard to avoid, at times. I wonder if Satan had that trouble - when asking, about Job, however.
@@djenkins555 And also of His choice not to chastise and correct Torquemada, and other loose canons... pun intended. Or to see, Leviticus 25 - recycled, as camel bed lining, say? At a pertinent juncture.
Glad you figured it out. I was a Christian last year till I questioned Noah’s ARK. What did the Carnivores EAT when they got off the ARK? How did the Freshwater fish get to their lakes and streams from the ARK? Question Everything
@@DOA011970 Apparently the Almighty already had problems with solving his self created dilemma or else he wouldn't have come up with such a stupid idea as drowning everybody.
@@littlesoul8282 I believe the premise is that God knows what's best and wants what's best for you. BUT he also gave you a soul and set you as co-creator of the Universe meaning you can make your own decisions, God's Permissive Will, even if they are "wrong" or not God's Perfect Will. Foreseeing this dilemma, the Lamb or Christ was slain before the world was even created. I think to ensure the world will never get out of control no matter how much Satan or Humans screw it up. But it's not enough for God to know everything before it even happens so for evidence's sake God needs to demonstrate Humans are lost without him. So he set the humans free and let them run amok for a time before finally deciding he needs to create Israel and set up the coming of Jesus Christ.
All religions are mythology. I was raised as a fundamentalist Christian . However I went to college and majored in bioñogy. Science and religión are not very compatible.
Being new to Christianity, I find his reasoning very weak and superficial. Also, I see Pentecostalism rather devoid of logic in general and also noticed the trend of their women marrying men and getting divorced constantly, which I do not see that as Biblical at all.
Ex Christian here as well. I have been questioning for years and years since so many questions I had could not be answered and since my Near Death Experience. I love hearing people critically think and find answers out for themselves, it's so important that we use the brain we were given
NDE is just the brain dreaming in overdrive. It’s never anything proprietary, it’s always, I saw (insert god idea that already exists in that person’s brain).
I'm not a christian anymore, but you cannot KNOW that you won't see your loved ones anymore. There could still be some afterlife in some way. All these experiences, all these religions, all the near death stories... Some of it could be true. The idea is based on something... And that something could be more than just a strong desire to continue, inducing hallucinations or lucid dreams of heavenly places.
Yay, Timmy! I really appreciate the way Timmy often underscores as he goes, that although he is describing his beliefs of the past he recognizes the beliefs as untrue. For me, this is helpful as all of it is painful and this helps me stay with the point of the dialog and not just spiral off into disassociation. 42:00 For any Christian that wants to "crucify", my gay friend did not make it through to a happy marriage beautiful story. He did not make it through at all.
Wow, I really enjoyed this podcast. I was born again Christian, didn't smoke or drink. Anything bad that happened to me was my fault. I wasn't Godly enough. Not being a Christian is so freeing. Omg. Thank you for this.
This was a huge part of my deconstruction process. HUGE! If affected me sooo much that a dream and a synchronicity the very next day about hell but that corresponded linking back to that dream got me literally out of 'Hell'. Then I went about challenging other Christians: If God gave you all authority to do what you will with all the tormented souls in Hell and he would not judge you on your decision and you could do what you would with them however you see fit because he trusts you, what would you do? Damnit! ALMOST EVERBODY IS EXTREMELY MERCIFUL. That thought experiment still blows me away to this day.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but there’s been times I’ve messed up pretty bad in my life. If heaven is a perfect place, there’s no way I should get in - otherwise it wouldn’t be perfect anyone. All I can do is place my trust in Jesus and what He did for me on the cross to cover my sins and make me clean. I know there are some things that don’t make sense and hard to understand, but I haven’t seen any evidence yet that disproves the Bible. Worst case, if I’m wrong, I won’t end up in a worse place than if I didn’t believe. So I don’t see a real downside to at least doing full due diligence to see if the Bible might be true.
Great interview with Timmy. My deconversion was a mix of the previous mythology copying and the horrible things going on in the middle east in the name of "god"
Very similar story; raised Assembly of God, dad was the pastor, mom lead the music, married an AOG preacher’s daughter, I preached, wrote and performed only Christian music… I believed for 60 years.
An Assembly of God Pastor invited me to his home for a cup of tea with himself and his wife. The conversation that both of their parents were now in Hell because they didn't accept Jesus was enough for me. My heart broke for them that they truly believed that of their parents.
I can see people wondering how you still end up as a believer after reading the entire Bible. The answer is simple, you don’t just read the Bible or study it. You let the Holy Spirit speak and interpret to you. We can’t use our carnal minds to study the Bible. Also, it’s wrong to believe that only good things should happen to Christians. We humans with our human brains can consider something as bad but it’s a learning process God is letting you go through. The actual thing is when you’re in tune with God, everything works together for those that Love him. So whether good or bad things (in our human understanding), they work together for good. It shocks me how people don’t know how deeply spiritual the world is. It means the Holy Spirit never spoke to you or was in you. Some people who were born into Christianity and practice it all their lives without letting the Holy Spirit in are the ones who come out not believers. There’s a difference between you talking to yourself and the Holy Spirit talking to you. I have already typed so much and it’s funny to me when people laugh about this. You just don’t know it till you experience it, trust me. I’ve also noticed that kids who grew under very religious practices end up confused and might become unbelievers. God doesn’t like pretentious Christians who overdo things. He doesn’t want us to judge either. I’ll leave you all with this and hope you let the Holy Spirit in and testify too. Peace be unto you all.
Nonbelievers aren't confused. Its just a matter of accepting reality. No morality, logic, science or reason can justify any religion based on mythology. So just go out and try to be a good person.
One of the things that really upsets me is peoples flippant willingness to just let things slide and continue trusting God, even after things either don’t line up or make sense or when they’ve been through some serious shit and they’re willing to just accept it. I was at a concert along time ago, and the singer was a devout Christian, who his wife and child died in some circumstance. I can’t remember if it was an accident or what happened, and he said that God had a plan for him and some stuff about him getting remarried and other things happening he wasn’t inferring that part of the plan was his first wife dying by any means, but it still upsets me to think about how someone can just accept that Without putting any criticism towards God for allowing that to happen in the first place, I’ve had things happen to me and people that I care about that made it all that much easier for me to drop my faith simply because the action itself had it been by the hand of God is evil and unforgivable in itself. My bosses son died in an accident, and someone else who I cared about , had a sister who got sick, got better and then got sick again and died, and you don’t forgive A God or gleefully just accept God’s intervention, regardless of what happens to you that doesn’t just happen and once I watched this shit happened to all these people around me I was physically incapable of it maintaining my faith. You have people give up their faith in God for things that happened to themselves and many people praise God for how privileged they are and how many chances they get even though horrible things are happening to people around them and for me, my lack and faith is the opposite because of everything that has happened to people around me that I care about I don’t give a shit about how lucky I am and people maintain their faith because of all these privileges that they have and just ignore all this horrible shit that is going on around them to other people and it’s just truly hideous to think that way and I could not in good conscience maintain that kind of mindset with a clear conscience. I just can’t do it , it is literally beyond the confines of my moral state of being and I would never forgive myself if I ever did
It lines up with the depiction of Satan and the corrupt. That they just take whatever goodies of wealth and comfort are offered and forget everyone else who doesn't make their own deal with the (dark) God. It's similar to the Christians relationship with their God, only with different names/labels.
You said infer when you meant imply. It's a common mistake. To infer is to draw a probable conclusion from a set of premises; to imply is to convey a message indirectly by presenting a statement that has a logical connection to a conclusion. An inference can be a bit like an educated guess or likely explanation; to imply something is to insinuate or say it indirectly.
People get sick and die. That's part of life. If your local branch of Christianity doesn't discuss that or practice acceptance of it as natural, of course people are going to lose faith. If people (God forbid) teach that God always grants health and long life to Christians, of course people will be disillusioned when they (or their loved ones) eventually get hurt, or get sick, or die. I find it hard to believe that there are Christians who foster such naivite. Suffering, sickness, and death happen to everyone. Sounds like a product of first world wealth fuelling delusion. Memento mori, remember that you will die, that was an old motto. I doubt the medieval church ever forgot that all people die.
This interview helped my heart. My mind is still so programmed and in many ways I haven't thought through my own opinions on things. Also there's so much deep loss wrapped up in losing faith. I grieve for the things I yearned for and devoted my life to. I also grieve now wondering who I would have been had my whole life not revolved around religion. It was so refreshing to hear others talk about the feelings we go through.
This guy was Awesome to listen to! I love it!! 💞 i could listen to him all day long. Im so glad hes in the realm of reality now 💞 i went to a church that spoke in tongues once & it scared the shit outta me i havent set foot in a church ever since. Im a proud atheist 💞🙏💞 Thank you so much Tim for sharing this video, this was Amazing to hear you guys tell your stories 💞🙏💞 And im so glad you didn't instill that teaching to your kids, my mom grew up SDA & she tells me shes greatful to not have forced me to be in a religion & i agree, i probably would have resented her. I ask too many questions anyway i probably would have been kicked out...I had to subscribe & now im gonna binge watch your videos 💞
Carlton Pearson was actually my very instrumental in my deconversion from Christianity and stepping away from the pastorate. This very question was also the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for me as well!
I was an Atheist for 12 years. I thought that Atheism made me free, but I found a greater strength and freedom in accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour.
@Harmonic Atheist yahoooo I'm so excited for this episode. Found Timmy thru C2C and have caught some of his episodes. When I heard he was going to be on Harmonic Atheist I knew this would be quite enlightening.
@@ndjibukabengele973 only a fool says a god exists 😂. When there is overwhelmingly ZERO evidence. What u really have are just texts from an old fabled book no different from snow white, a bunch of hearsays and bunch of similarly-minded delusional folks who keep faking until they make it
It's hard for me to understand either but my childhood environment contained diversity with my father being an atheist and while my mother tried hard to brainwash me it didn't really take with my father mocking everything religion. Had both my parents been believers I may have ended up some viral disgusting brainwasher.
@@timmygibsonkc As someone who believes in God, you never had a personal relationship with God. If you did you would know that away from God is nothing but ruins and damnation. It’s impossible to experience God and revert to the none sense you’re saying. I hope that you come back to the truth, obviously you have been deceived by satan. It’s fun for you now but it won’t be when you die in your sins and thrown in hell for eternity. Remember also that if you’re choosing to go to hell, go your self but don’t come on here and deceive more people just remember that God is going to hold you accountable for all the people on here you’re leading to hell. Good luck!
I was 20 yr old, had and accident and died on the operating table. Defibrillated over dozen times, chest opened, cardiac and pulmonary bypass. 45 minute code summary. That’s the day I realized there’s nothing.
I had a stricter upbringing. Both sets of grandparents were classic pentecostal ministers and I was forced to attend church services at least four times a week. I took my bible to school that I read whenever I found the chance. I’ve endured the worst horror since my early teens. I constantly asked God why, and have fasted many days since being baptized at age 10. I was hospitalized for anorexia, and just a few years ago, fasted for 40 days while deconstructing. I concluded that scripture(s) weren’t written to be interpreted literally. They’re mainly codes, principles, and initiations. There’s nothing outside the self that isn’t within Oneself. I’m currently studying for a Masters Degree in Transformative Spirituality and founded a social artists teleconference ministry during Covid.
Religion is a bane. But we need a world view to combat evil. I find the Jesus of the gospels to be like no other recorded person in history. So I follow that. Also, the christian apologetic makes the most sense. The moral argument best explains reality for me. The contingency argument for Gods existence is solid imo. So i continue to believe.
I was in a 2year relationship with a covert narcissist which was so horrible. After I left him and healing from the relationship - I realise that my relationship with god was the same as my relationship with my ex narcissist. I became a Christian at age 13, at age 13 I began believing that I’m a sinner, I was born one and will be going to hell if I don’t turn accept a Jesus a my saviour, can you imagine a 13 year old that believes they are a sinner and need saving? do you understand how toxic that is? My life changed at age 13, lost friends and couldn’t make friends anymore because kids my age weren’t thinking about sin and “bad character corrupts good character” scriptures and teachings resolved me to only making friends with other Christian kids. Not much connection beside church and bible and we were so dull. And I would cut off any friend who seemed to like boys because it’s a sun. We were kids but nothing excited us and those friendships weren’t sustainable, as a result I resorted to solitude and of cause year and years of loneliness. I feel so sad for my life.
I am continually surprised what silos very intelligent people can find themselves. Religion, Political, Family dogmas really constraining people in thought prisons made and supported by ourselves. Life is strange.
Same. It baffles me that some of the most intelligent people in history were devoutly religious. I can't reconcile that, I find it absolutely dumbfounding
I see Christianity as a patch quilt religion of differing beliefs being forced together. Much of the OT seems to be just tribal / Canaanite religion and the NT seems to be Zoroastrian (hell) combined with a lot of Buddhism (and Gnosticism) and then much of it projected back on to the OT. Lately, I've been enjoying exploring all of it from both a fabricated and a gnostic point of view.
I really enjoy these videos, keep them coming! I also appreciate the satire, praise the Lord! These stories are helping me to also verbalize my own journey as many of us have experienced very similar things from deconstruction, to giving it all up, to divorce, to even many of the doctrines being the same. If I could ask your guest, and you, one question, I would want to know how has losing your faith impacted your view of Jesus and the New testament? And, a video of debating yourself is a fantastic idea.
My parents took us to crazy evangelical church twice weekly growing up and they healed me of my asthma a dozen times as a child, still had attacks 😢 preacher said its was cause I didn’t believe enough…I was 8
Whoa, I can’t believe I’m not the only one who thought they were left behind after the rapture as a child. I remember one time I woke up on a weekend and my mom was gone, but her car was there. I went through every stage of grief and cried so hard because even at that age I had a deep feeling that I wasn’t worthy of going to heaven. Even after my mom came back home, she was talking to the neighbor across the street, I felt bad because I thought it was a sign from god to get my life together. I hadn’t thought about that morning for many years.
You said you still want to go to heaven. I personally believe you still will. If it's there it's probably not the Christian idea of heaven and the road to it is likely not a strict religious one but still. The anecdotes of NDEs are quite interesting. Obviously they aren't evidence of heaven in a scientifically verifiable sense but I'm convinced this world isn't the only one. Much love to you both.
Tim Gibson, at 48:35 and just past, i believe you reference very popular pastors you know whose private lives are complete contradictions to their teachings. They are victimizing their parishioners with false visions of the world that will lead them to making any number of grave mistakes. Everyone deserves the truth. Please consider exposing these individuals.
"Thou Art That" by Joseph Campbell is a wonderful book which explores this more. I don't see the problem with viewing religion thru a mythical lens as myth can be every bit as powerful as religion.
At least for a hot minute it seems that lust rules over theology. I cannot imagine it myself, as all the best after sex conversations have no limits. But Christianity has limits on almost every topic. Sounds awful in every way.
I joined the Anglican boys society when I was ten. By the time I was twelve I saw the holes in the Christian story and left it all behind. Living in an area of rain forests and beautiful beaches it was a simple thing to feel the pulse of life around me. That became my point of worship and at seventy plus years of age it still is. Nature around me and nature in me.
I've never glommed to religious ideas in my whole life, as more than a passing flirtation whilst trying to work out whetehr there's any meaning to all this or not. Upshot being that I have the utmost respect for the honesty of Timmy's journey. The courage required to have these inklings and follow them into full fledged questioning, then intellectual conviction sufficient to accepting the consequences of a new understanding, is beyond my imagining. What a genuinely lovely person.
I have been married tons of times starting at 15 years old because my parents said I would burn in hell for having sex outside marriage and my life has really suffered being raised by creepy Christian parents
34:43 When I was a Christian, I experienced several manifestations of the Word Gifts. I gave words of wisdom, prophesy and knowledge. The majority of time, it seemed I had inside knowledge I had no way of knowing. After I left the faith, I eventually realized we are gifted with special psy gifts, either born with or developed. The experiences in the Pentecostal churches were a training ground for me to develop these psy gifts. Yes, I still, at times, heard that still quiet voice. However, I understand now, the voice is formatted and defined by the emotional intellectual framework of my experiences. I still have psy experiences however, they do not come with...thus Saith the lord. By the way, the texts on gifts were added to the letters because enough people had psy and other abilities in the pagan experiences the church developers were forced to include them.
SEEKING leads to WISDOM, KNOWLEDGE, TRUTH, ENLIGHTENMENT, SELF-REALISATION, ONENESS, SALVATION. BELIEF leads to ignorance, darkness, enslavement. Belief means to accept without proof. It is always enforced. Hence, the church is obsessed with conversions. It's a case of, the blind leading the blind into a pit.
Christians say God is love, that his love is infinite, that he loves every single person. But the instant you get specific and say God loves homosexuals you become a pariah. It really gets difficult to distinguish Christian love from Christian hate.
@@travisjazzbo3490 Nope put men who want to have sex with men on a island for 100 years and put woman and men on a island for 100 years and go back and see who is extinct. With no children . People are strip God made everything and man in rebellion will find out to late the truth. Man did not make a mountain, an ocean, the sky , all living creatures, Almighty God did. Satan is behind all lies and deception. Jesus Christ died , was buried and rose on the 3 day and ever lives ONLY way to heaven John 14:6. How come nobody says the Koran is not true or attack that , because Satan is behind everything that exalts itself above God through the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@gracetou8963 First, you have to demonstrate you have a god, not just a god concept in your mind. So far, that's never been done. Then, the question is also "What cannot be justified in the name of a god concept?" As long as a god wants it, it's fine, right? Slavery? No problem. Discrimination? Done. Anything but black and white thinking about sex. Of course. Scapegoating other groups. Sure. At some point, human morality has exceeded this god concept's morality. Two thousand-year-old books with ancient morality are not a yardstick for modern people to follow without any critical thinking.
Wow, the truth seeking 😅set Timmy free 🎉. There’s so much in this that’s relatable with a few years at an Assembly of God church as part of my journey. His realisations came through finally, like myself, actually seeing the Bible for what it is. More meaning and purpose filled to preach ’de conversion’ is music to my ears ❤🎉❤🎉, it’s definitely his calling! Only part watched so far but this is a great interview, gotta love the Tims!
40:50 yup, many of us were never abused. In fact, my childhood was as close as being perfect as it can get (despite Pentecostal church but my parents weren't hardcore.) I still turned out gay, and very comfortable in my own skin. Even if there was a way to change orientation, NO WAY I would do it. My parents were ok when i told them (I can't say i came out cause i was never in the closet 😊) It was quite normal reaction. They asked me several questions, not malicious, like "are you sure?" and other caring questions, if someone had ever touched me, or if I needed someone to talk to. Thankfully it was more like telling my parents I changed majors. I didn't mind their approach, maybe politically incorrect these days. They said to keep it to myself, cause church people gossip big time. Years later, my mom said (or admitted ) that she knew, so it wasn't a surprise, I guess 😊. They questioned what the church said about homosexuality. How could a child be possessed at such an early age, cause that's what the church used to say (again , they suspected from an early age.) Eventually, they left the church altogether. There's no reason for me to have turned out gay. My brother and sister are both straight and we had an enviable childhood.
Has anyone ever considered Judaism? It is the closest thing we have to an original. I mean just look at the Jews through history. They are still here and they are starting to be a light to the nations. I can't be the only one that can see this. The past 15 years the rabbis have been teaching us. It's worth checking out. There are some good rabbis on RUclips. Tovia Singer is a good one. Rabbi Friedman is another one. They make a lot of sense if you can part with your ego and listen to them.
I can’t understand how you do deep study of the Bible and come out of the other end still a believer. Seriously, how is that possible. It’s hard to make it through Genesis without encountering 50 contradictory statements
The political aspect of things is one that I think matters alot. The more you deconstruct, the more the norms that exist in our politics look startlingly similar to the religious dogma.
We get some pointers of how this could happen to Gibson after 30 years. He says he is much happier now, which means that he must have been plagued by rational thinking all along. And when he said he gave his children the freedom to chose, he was already on his way out of the cult himself. For the hopeless majority of Evangelical Christians, bringing up their children in their own faith is their greatest worry, and at the same time their greatest sin. I had to smile when Gibson said that he is now creating his content on the same days of the week as he had previously held his sermons.
Compelling interview - so much of what Timothy said resonates with me. I have found there is greater awareness and spirituality after leaving Christianity. Ironic. Thanks to you both for this enjoyable video.
Like Tim, it was the idea that only Christians were righteous enough to go to heaven was something that didn't sit right with me. I saw men who I knew were very "righteous" men that were way more "holly" that most Christians I knew and I couldn't see how they would go to hell for not being a Christian. That was one of the things the helped start my deconversion
@rizwanrafeek3811 Seriously. There are billions of people on earth, each with their own story. Quoting 2 stories to argue your beliefs is beyond ludicrous.
@rizwanrafeek3811 I'm an ex Muslim. It is mental illness. There are lots of people in psych wards because of their delusions. Allah isn't speaking to anyone, and Muhammad wasn't a good enough person for Allah to single him out. Muhammad was a war lord.
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod You are free to believe in whatever superstition you choose. Just don't expect any rational people to swallow your claims on such pathetic arguments.
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod Given that I don't believe in undetectable, magical, supernatural beings (unlike you), can you clarify what specific "superstition" you claim I have?
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod, as if your experiences aren't antidotal? We crossed before and like I said before you aren't that special to say your beliefs are better or more true than anyone else. You're in the same boat as everyone else and you can dismiss the 6 billion other people believes as bogus just because YOU don't like them.
I was raised UPC . I married into IFB , I am now for lack of a better term atheist . I went to other churches and religions looking for truth and found that they were all saying the same thing “ they are doing it wrong “ but they were all using the same instruction manual. The best IFU for the Bible is to realize it was our ancestors best interpretation for things they didn’t understand.
It was a very interesting video. However I often wonder if individuals who have deconverted from Christianity Ever wonder if they got it wrong. If their deconversion is in fact a trick of the enemy to cause them to miss out on eternal life. I wonder if most individuals who choose to deconvert Ever give any serious consideration to what may happen to their souls once they die. One thing we know with absolute certainty that transcends religion As a whole, Irregardless of where I particular faith and religious affiliation may find us we all Know that death is an inevitable part of Life. Do individuals who choose to be converted ever wonder if their souls will span eternity in paradise or do they believe that there is a slight possibility that there is a heaven or hell after this life. I certainly can understand an individual's frustration with traditional religion. It seems so very difficult to adhere to all that most religions including Christianity Encourage us to abide by. It is hard for me to a God that doesn't seem to answer but we have to constantly make excuses for why that is and accept it when God does not. I am just still uncertain as to whether or not God is real or just Something that I've been taught to believe in. It is so very hard to disconnect from what you have been taught to believe. I was born and raised In an evangelical household. I truly hope there is a God and he is forgiving and understands that some of us may make decisions based on our frustration and lack of being connected to his presence. When I look at the world in which we live it stands to reason that there is something so much bigger than us. Thanks for the interesting video.
" I often wonder if individuals who have deconverted from Christianity Ever wonder if they got it wrong." Of course we do. It is all part of growing up, and out of superstition. Religious Indoctrination is seriously damaging. "I wonder if most individuals who choose to deconvert Ever give any serious consideration to what may happen to their souls once they die. " Believing in something spurious as the soul, is one of the first things we grow out of. "Do individuals who choose to be converted" We don't choose. We just wake up from our superstitious slumber, and discover reality, and reason. Once you have gone through the process of deconversion (which might take years, everything becomes so much clearer. Your rational thinking is no longer shackled by the pernicious threats that permeate christian theology. "if their souls will span eternity in paradise" Why would we believe in those fantasies? " or do they believe that there is a slight possibility that there is a heaven or hell " Of course not. "It is so very hard to disconnect from what you have been taught to believe." As I said before, religious indoctrination is very damaging. It is a truly evil and poisonous thing.
You seem tied to fear of what would happen if you did not believe. And that is going to muddy your thinking. Nobody is threatening you into believing that RUclips is a online platform that hosts different channels. But you believe it anyway. Why? Because it's true.
I am listening with pleasure the whole interview. Many thanks from me from Europe the Netherlands. I tried so hard to believe but i can’t because there are so many things that doesn’t make sense plus when i started to make questions and everything felt apart.
I have no fear. I love Jesus with all my heart and all my soul. I gladly admit I’m nothing compared to his goodness. I was in a coma for almost two months. I was not raised with religion. But I don’t need a church to tell me who was with me. All glory goes to God. He is enough for me. Don’t need a church to read the Bible.
I had a Hindu desk mate in 3rd grade. We were really good friends. At the house fellowships the adults would preach and pray fervently against Hindu beliefs and practices in the neighbourhood. They seemed genuinely terrified. That was terribly confusing as a kid. I still got saved later on and went on to get a lot of people saved 🤡
There is a section in here that is really scary. Gibson talks about how he read Sapiens by Yuval Harari, and how he discovered that we actually have more than a single neanderthal molar to prove evolution is not just a theory (you know, the worst kind of definition of a theory, some one pulled it out of their rear end), yet previous to reading this, Gibson pontificated from the pulpit about the single molar ... and then something tugged at his conscience ... Harari's book maybe (why didn't Gibson just not believe it, treat it as just another theory?) - but no, he believed what he read (BTW, Hariri's book is pretty low brow for a real scientist), anyway, so he deconstructs as a fundamentalist Christian, the definition of which is he believed all the creatures went two-by-two into Noah's ark etc. This is a grown man! It's fricken crazy. What was he doing, living under a rock? And yet, even if we had only ONE neanderthal molar, that would still fully support the truth of evolution, because neanderthals died out about 25,000 years ago, well before the bible and all that crap. Its like he didn't even make that connection ... it's fricken scary, if that is the level of stupidity humans are capable of. We're doomed. There is no hope for us.
This is interesting because I’ve seen the exact same argument about human parents and kids from Christians to show that God wouldn’t abandon anyone- “I would never abandon or torture my kid, and there’s no way I’m better than God, so if anyone says that God would send someone to hell then they’re lying”.
Growing up in RC schools and church, I assumed we all knew the stories in the Bible were myth, allegory etc. Then I got older and around other people from different ages and backgrounds and was surprised to find there are a lot of people that take it all as literal truth. Wow! It’s all so silly.
ruclips.net/video/ezm02GPTWJo/видео.html If I said Left Behind, I meant to say A Thief in the Night. Jamin was very insightful -- definitely worth watching!
Thank you so much Tim! It was a pleasure talking with you and sharing my Deconstruction story! I’ve been set free, and it’s such a joy!
May I ask where you got your degree in theology?
Do you struggle with the regret of “wasted time”? Fifty years is quite an investment..
I have a similar background to you and have just started deconstructing this year after a Mindshift video randomly appeared in my feed and hit me like a sledgehammer. The way you speak about your path is very effective. Just subscribed to your channel.
How do you sleep knowing that all the people that you pastored will probably suffer because of you? And I don’t mean missing heaven or going to hell….
If they follow your example of deconvertion , it could cost them family ties, jobs, psychological issues, friends, social identity, etc.
Former Pentecostal kid here. I was even a youth pastor, associate pastor, and even did some evangelist preaching for a bit. Of course, I am a full-blown heathen now. lol
Pastors are special people (mostly). What I love about pastors who have walked away, is that they still have the "vibe". The kindness, the caring instruction, the genuine care for truth - they are the same as they were when they "believed"and we still need you. You are a service to the community and have so much more to share and help those of us who have left. I wish there were some unchurches sprouting up to still have that community and support.
Maybe some new kind of community groups will gather, and not need to reference church (even unchurch) in the way they work. I do agree that kindness, learning together, and liking the truth are strengths in any community.
@@thedavesiknow4598 Oh trust me, I’ve thought many times of starting a nonreligious church! 😅
@@timmygibsonkc you should! I have thought of doing an unchurch as well. I mean, just gotta start, right! 😊
@@thedavesiknow4598 true!
Being from another country one thing that I noticed you guys don't have here is "association". It's just an entity which the goal is not to make money but to do some activities in a group.
I was kicked out of the j.w.'s at age 12, for telling the elders that god is evil...the book of job did it for me...
Don't blame ya. Wish I'd had the strength to not buckle under to my elders' teaching on that one so easily. I do remember feeling very anxious about the Abraham and Isaac thing, and having to kind of reason myself out of that anxiety- if you can call it reasoning when what I was doing was laying "but God is all good" over my own true feelings.
@@thewandering8659 that book of Job is the most disturbing!, and you know what philosophy I have?......
That when you are through adolescents from age 4-13-ish is the perfect time to start questioning the Bible because kids ain't stupid, the wise kids could say, "Hey wait a min. Something's not right here" 🤔
@@thewandering8659 yep. That story is absolutely heartbreaking.
ex-JW here also, It took me many years to finally break free
The book of Job is a poem. It’s not a true story
I came to the conclusion the only reason to go to church was to financially support pastor
This is the truth. We had a pastor once who told us we needed to tithe more because he needed a new Porsche. He hadn’t taken any “poverty vows”. Lol. Ya he got kicked out for messing with young girls not too long after. 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Growing up my church was just a social event I learned very little about God, which I’m not upset about after hearing other peoples stories and rules.
@@janegerow5974😂😂😂
I'm fully deconstructed. I feel freedom, but how do I get past the embarrassment? The idiotic things I used to say still haunt me.
Use it as a reminder and another learning opportunity.
Weve all made mistakes in belief . Beliefs are highly overrated , often keading to delusions , and are potentially dangerous.
Embarrassment ,in this case, is a concerned friend who doesn't want you to make the mistake of eagerly wading into deep waters imagining its a nice soft welcoming bed.
What's more embarrassing than admitting you evolved from apes?
The only reason you feel embarrassment is because you’re past the silly beliefs! That’s how I look at it, and how I remind myself that I am past it.
Forgive yourself. You were doing your best with the knowledge that you had.
A blessed humility
What a wonderful conversation between the two Timothy's. Now subscribed to both.
Thank you!
I have to say. I have watched all your videos Tim. And while I always love them, this one was just the best. ❤ Yes, maybe it was the double “blessing” of watching the Timothys together? I can relate to almost everything you both were saying, from longing for heaven with all my heart, to serving as a missionary, to years dedicated to the church. Yet, it cannot compete with what I observed in the world around me. The beautiful people outside of “god’s” chosen few and the lack of answers to honest, heart-wrenching prayers. The best RUclips channel would be you 2 just doing more life together for all of us. I’d take that video every Wednesday and Sunday 🎉. Thanks for all you both do! It matters for the one person who hears and believes.
Such wonderful positive energy from Tim and Timmy, really inspiring!
There is no recorded account of ancient shepherds "breaking" the legs of sheep. That practice would have killed or traumatized the animal. What shepherds did do was put a "brake" or weight on a rogue sheep to slow it down.
I think we should be compassionate with ourselves. I don't feel like I owe apologies to people about my christianity days. It's something that is forced on pretty much everybody before they can even say a word. I was sincere in what I believed and cared about the people I ministered to. I don't preach anymore, I don't say I will pray for you or do the christian things anymore and I let other people walk their own walk and if they are interested in my opinion I will let them know. Thanks Tim and Timmy.
Great point. I thought the exact same things on occasion while listening to this video that he, and ourselves included, should be more gracious and compassionate to our previous selves bc we did the best we could with what we had and we were very sincere, even if we were misdirected. I still struggle with that sometimes too though.
Personally, I think that feeling that "God told me to marry a certain person" I believe that's a codependent bond that feels like the voice of God.
Codependency “feels” like a good thing ? That is a rhetorical question btw. 😂. I thought codependency was unhealthy. Just my opinion. It’s about biology , hormones and evolution, perhaps ?
@@bernardofitzpatrick5403 people define the term codependency differently. Some think of it as a pattern of behaviors, or as a role in relationships. I think of it as the deep emotional dependency that we have on other people. Call it limerence, trauma bond. I don't know. But that connection often gets mistaken for the voice of God, or the leading and guidance of God.
Like in 2011 'god' told those guys in 2011 to crash into the twin towers.
@@briaf3370 you mean 2001?
@@lilafeldman8630 No, 9/11. You remember that, right? With the planes?
I still believe in God and the supernatural. I love all your programs. I am a deconstructed Christian. I believe most deconstructed religious folks are the most honest humble people.
A genuine question... what does it mean to be a deconstructed Christian and also believe in God and the supernatural? Do you believe in Allah now or a deistic God... just curious what it is.
Jesus would rather die than tell a lie but you would rather believe idiots that would lie... 😂...and you claim to be free and deconstructed?...
@@danhtran6401
I feel so sorry for these 2 here plus all the lost souls that are saying that they felt free. It’s going to be brutal on that day.
@@ndjibukabengele973how do you know that for sure?
Obviously, you just have to believe.
@@junglelee1765 For all atheist answer that egg before hen or hen before egg who came first and how they exist suddenly, if they suddenly exist why not God exist
46:10
Wow.
I've heard this a few times
from ex-pastors, but its always a WOW! moment to hear it again.
Basically the conservative congregation will not accept anything new and would rather be lied to than taught a new truth .
And working pastors know this. 😮
I recall Reggie White saying that "God told me I should go to Green Bay." Of course it just so happened that Green Bay was offering him the most money! 😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
This takes so much bravery and humility to admit to. thank you all for speaking the truth and waking up
Another ex-Christian here. Thanks for this awesome video. It was my everything too. I’m sick of being told I wasn’t sincere or I would have stayed Christian. Without keeping people terrified of hell there would not be one single Christian.
@sandracampbell9822, Of course you made the right decision, for why would a healthy person like you need a doctor for? The Lord Jesus Christ?
That a person thereby opens the doors of the soul wide to the cunning evil spirits that take possession of man? We'd rather not think about that..
Total lie....Jesus Christ quite literally saved my life from the world of meth/whoredom.Staying out of hell,your house with your daddy,just happens to be a bonus.My Father is full of a beauty and kindness i never experienced with your dad.I'm so sorry you have chosen such a deception over your Creator and Savior.Pretty dumb,but that's on you.I truly pray you come with us while there is still time!Your friend ,Brent
That's not true. There are denominations that teach biblically that there is no hell the way it's taught like in Southern Baptist denominations.
@@RomanPaganChurch There's eternal punishment.Just like God's Word says.Deal with it.
Yup. Fear of hell is the threat they have to have. So effing sick of the idea that I was never sincere or I would have stayed. Maybe that’s how they can justify shunning us.
Can't wait to show and share this everyone. Thanks guys. What a great show!
Thank you Sean!
Agreed, a great show!!
"a finite sin but infinite punishment" is a great way to put it.
There's only one sin and that is turning away from God.
@@djenkins555 But He had initially, chosen to conceal himself.
And we cannot look at Him - except via, His hindparts.
So it's a bit hard to avoid, at times.
I wonder if Satan had that trouble - when asking, about Job, however.
@@chrissonofpear1384 it's all about choices.
@@djenkins555 And also of His choice not to chastise and correct Torquemada, and other loose canons... pun intended.
Or to see, Leviticus 25 - recycled, as camel bed lining, say? At a pertinent juncture.
@@djenkins555nah it's God who decide our fate free will is a myth😂
Y’all make so much sense - loved this team up…thanks for sharing!
Thank you Jenn!
Glad you figured it out. I was a Christian last year till I questioned Noah’s ARK. What did the Carnivores EAT when they got off the ARK? How did the Freshwater fish get to their lakes and streams from the ARK? Question Everything
Gods ‘Magic and miracles’ 🙄
And you "think" that God Almighty didn't think all those things out and come up with solutions to save the animals?
@@DOA011970 Apparently the Almighty already had problems with solving his self created dilemma or else he wouldn't have come up with such a stupid idea as drowning everybody.
@@DOA011970 Not really bc they are just stories.
@@littlesoul8282 I believe the premise is that God knows what's best and wants what's best for you. BUT he also gave you a soul and set you as co-creator of the Universe meaning you can make your own decisions, God's Permissive Will, even if they are "wrong" or not God's Perfect Will.
Foreseeing this dilemma, the Lamb or Christ was slain before the world was even created. I think to ensure the world will never get out of control no matter how much Satan or Humans screw it up.
But it's not enough for God to know everything before it even happens so for evidence's sake God needs to demonstrate Humans are lost without him. So he set the humans free and let them run amok for a time before finally deciding he needs to create Israel and set up the coming of Jesus Christ.
Great conversation Tim and Timmy! 🌅🌲🏞️
All religions are mythology. I was raised as a fundamentalist Christian . However I went to college and majored in bioñogy. Science and religión are not very compatible.
Being new to Christianity, I find his reasoning very weak and superficial. Also, I see Pentecostalism rather devoid of logic in general and also noticed the trend of their women marrying men and getting divorced constantly, which I do not see that as Biblical at all.
Ex Christian here as well. I have been questioning for years and years since so many questions I had could not be answered and since my Near Death Experience. I love hearing people critically think and find answers out for themselves, it's so important that we use the brain we were given
What was your NDE like?
@@MrJames-eb6rp It was an incredible experience. Something that is difficult to describe and that gave me greater context as to what ‘God’ Is
@@natashajblack If you don't mind can you tell us in a very short and brief way what happened?
NDE is just the brain dreaming in overdrive. It’s never anything proprietary, it’s always, I saw (insert god idea that already exists in that person’s brain).
I'm not a christian anymore, but you cannot KNOW that you won't see your loved ones anymore. There could still be some afterlife in some way. All these experiences, all these religions, all the near death stories... Some of it could be true. The idea is based on something... And that something could be more than just a strong desire to continue, inducing hallucinations or lucid dreams of heavenly places.
It is far better to be a Born-again Christian than a religious christian, who traditionally acts religiously without knowing The Word.
@@DOA011970The word is fake
Yay, Timmy!
I really appreciate the way Timmy often underscores as he goes, that although he is describing his beliefs of the past he recognizes the beliefs as untrue. For me, this is helpful as all of it is painful and this helps me stay with the point of the dialog and not just spiral off into disassociation.
42:00 For any Christian that wants to "crucify", my gay friend did not make it through to a happy marriage beautiful story. He did not make it through at all.
Thank you. I do that often because I want to make sure people know I no longer believe that crazy stuff 😂
@@timmygibsonkc Thank you Timmy. I does help me also with feelings of being triggered, for lack of a better word, by just hearing the stuff.
@@totonow6955 I get it! I understand that for sure!
Wow, I really enjoyed this podcast. I was born again Christian, didn't smoke or drink. Anything bad that happened to me was my fault. I wasn't Godly enough. Not being a Christian is so freeing. Omg. Thank you for this.
Hi, feel free to add me on FB and reach out there if you'd ever consider sharing your story!
facebook.com/harmonictim
Not only wouldn’t I send my OWN kids to “hell”, I wouldn’t send ANYONE to hell for any reason whatsoever.
Which makes you more compassionate, more empathic, more loving, and more moral than the biblical Jesus.
@@canwelook well said! Agree 👍
This was a huge part of my deconstruction process. HUGE! If affected me sooo much that a dream and a synchronicity the very next day about hell but that corresponded linking back to that dream got me literally out of 'Hell'. Then I went about challenging other Christians: If God gave you all authority to do what you will with all the tormented souls in Hell and he would not judge you on your decision and you could do what you would with them however you see fit because he trusts you, what would you do? Damnit! ALMOST EVERBODY IS EXTREMELY MERCIFUL. That thought experiment still blows me away to this day.
Oh do explain...
I can’t speak for anyone else, but there’s been times I’ve messed up pretty bad in my life. If heaven is a perfect place, there’s no way I should get in - otherwise it wouldn’t be perfect anyone. All I can do is place my trust in Jesus and what He did for me on the cross to cover my sins and make me clean. I know there are some things that don’t make sense and hard to understand, but I haven’t seen any evidence yet that disproves the Bible. Worst case, if I’m wrong, I won’t end up in a worse place than if I didn’t believe. So I don’t see a real downside to at least doing full due diligence to see if the Bible might be true.
Great interview with Timmy. My deconversion was a mix of the previous mythology copying and the horrible things going on in the middle east in the name of "god"
Very similar story; raised Assembly of God, dad was the pastor, mom lead the music, married an AOG preacher’s daughter, I preached, wrote and performed only Christian music… I believed for 60 years.
An Assembly of God Pastor invited me to his home for a cup of tea with himself and his wife. The conversation that both of their parents were now in Hell because they didn't accept Jesus was enough for me. My heart broke for them that they truly believed that of their parents.
I can see people wondering how you still end up as a believer after reading the entire Bible. The answer is simple, you don’t just read the Bible or study it. You let the Holy Spirit speak and interpret to you. We can’t use our carnal minds to study the Bible. Also, it’s wrong to believe that only good things should happen to Christians. We humans with our human brains can consider something as bad but it’s a learning process God is letting you go through. The actual thing is when you’re in tune with God, everything works together for those that Love him. So whether good or bad things (in our human understanding), they work together for good. It shocks me how people don’t know how deeply spiritual the world is. It means the Holy Spirit never spoke to you or was in you. Some people who were born into Christianity and practice it all their lives without letting the Holy Spirit in are the ones who come out not believers. There’s a difference between you talking to yourself and the Holy Spirit talking to you. I have already typed so much and it’s funny to me when people laugh about this.
You just don’t know it till you experience it, trust me.
I’ve also noticed that kids who grew under very religious practices end up confused and might become unbelievers. God doesn’t like pretentious Christians who overdo things.
He doesn’t want us to judge either. I’ll leave you all with this and hope you let the Holy Spirit in and testify too. Peace be unto you all.
Nonbelievers aren't confused. Its just a matter of accepting reality. No morality, logic, science or reason can justify any religion based on mythology. So just go out and try to be a good person.
lol hokayyy
One of the things that really upsets me is peoples flippant willingness to just let things slide and continue trusting God, even after things either don’t line up or make sense or when they’ve been through some serious shit and they’re willing to just accept it. I was at a concert along time ago, and the singer was a devout Christian, who his wife and child died in some circumstance. I can’t remember if it was an accident or what happened, and he said that God had a plan for him and some stuff about him getting remarried and other things happening he wasn’t inferring that part of the plan was his first wife dying by any means, but it still upsets me to think about how someone can just accept that Without putting any criticism towards God for allowing that to happen in the first place, I’ve had things happen to me and people that I care about that made it all that much easier for me to drop my faith simply because the action itself had it been by the hand of God is evil and unforgivable in itself. My bosses son died in an accident, and someone else who I cared about , had a sister who got sick, got better and then got sick again and died, and you don’t forgive A God or gleefully just accept God’s intervention, regardless of what happens to you that doesn’t just happen and once I watched this shit happened to all these people around me I was physically incapable of it maintaining my faith. You have people give up their faith in God for things that happened to themselves and many people praise God for how privileged they are and how many chances they get even though horrible things are happening to people around them and for me, my lack and faith is the opposite because of everything that has happened to people around me that I care about I don’t give a shit about how lucky I am and people maintain their faith because of all these privileges that they have and just ignore all this horrible shit that is going on around them to other people and it’s just truly hideous to think that way and I could not in good conscience maintain that kind of mindset with a clear conscience. I just can’t do it , it is literally beyond the confines of my moral state of being and I would never forgive myself if I ever did
Yes, THIS. Totally agree.
It lines up with the depiction of Satan and the corrupt.
That they just take whatever goodies of wealth and comfort are offered and forget everyone else who doesn't make their own deal with the (dark) God.
It's similar to the Christians relationship with their God,
only with different names/labels.
You said infer when you meant imply. It's a common mistake. To infer is to draw a probable conclusion from a set of premises; to imply is to convey a message indirectly by presenting a statement that has a logical connection to a conclusion. An inference can be a bit like an educated guess or likely explanation; to imply something is to insinuate or say it indirectly.
People get sick and die. That's part of life. If your local branch of Christianity doesn't discuss that or practice acceptance of it as natural, of course people are going to lose faith. If people (God forbid) teach that God always grants health and long life to Christians, of course people will be disillusioned when they (or their loved ones) eventually get hurt, or get sick, or die.
I find it hard to believe that there are Christians who foster such naivite. Suffering, sickness, and death happen to everyone. Sounds like a product of first world wealth fuelling delusion. Memento mori, remember that you will die, that was an old motto. I doubt the medieval church ever forgot that all people die.
Goddammit
This interview helped my heart. My mind is still so programmed and in many ways I haven't thought through my own opinions on things. Also there's so much deep loss wrapped up in losing faith. I grieve for the things I yearned for and devoted my life to. I also grieve now wondering who I would have been had my whole life not revolved around religion. It was so refreshing to hear others talk about the feelings we go through.
This guy was Awesome to listen to! I love it!! 💞 i could listen to him all day long. Im so glad hes in the realm of reality now 💞 i went to a church that spoke in tongues once & it scared the shit outta me i havent set foot in a church ever since. Im a proud atheist 💞🙏💞
Thank you so much Tim for sharing this video, this was Amazing to hear you guys tell your stories 💞🙏💞 And im so glad you didn't instill that teaching to your kids, my mom grew up SDA & she tells me shes greatful to not have forced me to be in a religion & i agree, i probably would have resented her. I ask too many questions anyway i probably would have been kicked out...I had to subscribe & now im gonna binge watch your videos 💞
I've listened to this twice now and it's been so healing to listen to. Thank you Tim and Timmy for this conversation!
Carlton Pearson was actually my very instrumental in my deconversion from Christianity and stepping away from the pastorate. This very question was also the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for me as well!
I had a complete turn about when I realized that if I went to heaven and someone I loved wasn't there , how could it really be heaven?
Purgatory, they would be just in the waiting room 😁
Seems you've never read the bible in revelation it tell you the memory of that will pass all things are made new the former things have passed away .
Feel the same. People that are ok with there family being tortured forever without mercy are sociopaths
@@SuperPatrick777I don't want my memory wiped.
@DIBBY40 well, if there's no afterlife, your memory will be permanently wiped shortly.
Awesome conversations with the Timothy's! Keep Loving and sharing! You Rock, Bro!❤
Thank you for telling your story. I deconstructed some years ago and I've never felt more free.❤
Yet,YouStillPayT🅰X€$...RyouReallyFR€€¿
🤔😲
I was an Atheist for 12 years. I thought that Atheism made me free, but I found a greater strength and freedom in accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour.
@@djenkins555😂😂😂 you’re hilarious Jesus was black
@Harmonic Atheist yahoooo I'm so excited for this episode. Found Timmy thru C2C and have caught some of his episodes. When I heard he was going to be on Harmonic Atheist I knew this would be quite enlightening.
Thank you Laura!
I don't understand why it took you so long, or why everyone hasn't yet. I came to this conclusion when I was twelve or so.
Well you are a fast learner
Yeah, good luck with that, only a fool can say that God does not exist.
@@ndjibukabengele973 only a fool says a god exists 😂. When there is overwhelmingly ZERO evidence. What u really have are just texts from an old fabled book no different from snow white, a bunch of hearsays and bunch of similarly-minded delusional folks who keep faking until they make it
It's hard for me to understand either but my childhood environment contained diversity with my father being an atheist and while my mother tried hard to brainwash me it didn't really take with my father mocking everything religion. Had both my parents been believers I may have ended up some viral disgusting brainwasher.
Same here in Catholic grade school I was looking around thinking, “ok you guys see this is completely ridiculous right?”
Another awesome interview!
Timmy is a great communicator and has a cool way of articulating how nonsensical Christianity really is.
Thank you Jon!
Lol, you have not experienced God and that’s why you are saying all this nonsense. A blind man cannot lead another blind man.
@@timmygibsonkc
As someone who believes in God, you never had a personal relationship with God. If you did you would know that away from God is nothing but ruins and damnation. It’s impossible to experience God and revert to the none sense you’re saying. I hope that you come back to the truth, obviously you have been deceived by satan. It’s fun for you now but it won’t be when you die in your sins and thrown in hell for eternity. Remember also that if you’re choosing to go to hell, go your self but don’t come on here and deceive more people just remember that God is going to hold you accountable for all the people on here you’re leading to hell. Good luck!
I was 20 yr old, had and accident and died on the operating table. Defibrillated over dozen times, chest opened, cardiac and pulmonary bypass. 45 minute code summary. That’s the day I realized there’s nothing.
I had a stricter upbringing. Both sets of grandparents were classic pentecostal ministers and I was forced to attend church services at least four times a week. I took my bible to school that I read whenever I found the chance. I’ve endured the worst horror since my early teens. I constantly asked God why, and have fasted many days since being baptized at age 10. I was hospitalized for anorexia, and just a few years ago, fasted for 40 days while deconstructing. I concluded that scripture(s) weren’t written to be interpreted literally. They’re mainly codes, principles, and initiations. There’s nothing outside the self that isn’t within Oneself. I’m currently studying for a Masters Degree in Transformative Spirituality and founded a social artists teleconference ministry during Covid.
Isn't spirituality just more woo?
@@irielion3748 it can be, for those who don’t believe they’re spiritual beings
So in other words you are STILL completely lost in delusions . Spirits do not exist. "Spirituality" is just woo woo crap.
@@irielion3748 YES
@@spaceghost8995 since I’ve had spiritual encounters, it’s just woo to you, boo. Your viewpoint is just that, YOUR OWN
24:15 he nailed it. I have more peace since leaving christianity
Religion is a bane. But we need a world view to combat evil.
I find the Jesus of the gospels to be like no other recorded person in history. So I follow that. Also, the christian apologetic makes the most sense. The moral argument best explains reality for me. The contingency argument for Gods existence is solid imo. So i continue to believe.
I was in a 2year relationship with a covert narcissist which was so horrible. After I left him and healing from the relationship - I realise that my relationship with god was the same as my relationship with my ex narcissist. I became a Christian at age 13, at age 13 I began believing that I’m a sinner, I was born one and will be going to hell if I don’t turn accept a Jesus a my saviour, can you imagine a 13 year old that believes they are a sinner and need saving? do you understand how toxic that is? My life changed at age 13, lost friends and couldn’t make friends anymore because kids my age weren’t thinking about sin and “bad character corrupts good character” scriptures and teachings resolved me to only making friends with other Christian kids. Not much connection beside church and bible and we were so dull. And I would cut off any friend who seemed to like boys because it’s a sun. We were kids but nothing excited us and those friendships weren’t sustainable, as a result I resorted to solitude and of cause year and years of loneliness. I feel so sad for my life.
I am continually surprised what silos very intelligent people can find themselves. Religion, Political, Family dogmas really constraining people in thought prisons made and supported by ourselves. Life is strange.
Same. It baffles me that some of the most intelligent people in history were devoutly religious. I can't reconcile that, I find it absolutely dumbfounding
@@aaronparker1221I know. I’m always pretty self deprecating, but really maybe I am a lot smarter than I give myself credit for.
I see Christianity as a patch quilt religion of differing beliefs being forced together. Much of the OT seems to be just tribal / Canaanite religion and the NT seems to be Zoroastrian (hell) combined with a lot of Buddhism (and Gnosticism) and then much of it projected back on to the OT. Lately, I've been enjoying exploring all of it from both a fabricated and a gnostic point of view.
I really enjoy these videos, keep them coming! I also appreciate the satire, praise the Lord! These stories are helping me to also verbalize my own journey as many of us have experienced very similar things from deconstruction, to giving it all up, to divorce, to even many of the doctrines being the same. If I could ask your guest, and you, one question, I would want to know how has losing your faith impacted your view of Jesus and the New testament?
And, a video of debating yourself is a fantastic idea.
19:30 "Sapiens" by Yuval Noah Harari :) Also anything by Robert Sapolsky! Most recently, "Determined" is incredible.
These 2 books are the best I’ve read as well. Just amazing life changing stuff that makes sense of the world and our circumstance.
My parents took us to crazy evangelical church twice weekly growing up and they healed me of my asthma a dozen times as a child, still had attacks 😢 preacher said its was cause I didn’t believe enough…I was 8
Whoa, I can’t believe I’m not the only one who thought they were left behind after the rapture as a child. I remember one time I woke up on a weekend and my mom was gone, but her car was there. I went through every stage of grief and cried so hard because even at that age I had a deep feeling that I wasn’t worthy of going to heaven. Even after my mom came back home, she was talking to the neighbor across the street, I felt bad because I thought it was a sign from god to get my life together. I hadn’t thought about that morning for many years.
The rapture is a false teaching perpetuated by some Christian denominations. There is no such thing as a secret rapture. Do some research on this.
The same realisation made me stop believing in the bible. Now I'm an indifferent agnostic
You said you still want to go to heaven. I personally believe you still will. If it's there it's probably not the Christian idea of heaven and the road to it is likely not a strict religious one but still. The anecdotes of NDEs are quite interesting. Obviously they aren't evidence of heaven in a scientifically verifiable sense but I'm convinced this world isn't the only one. Much love to you both.
Heaven is a human made idea to help soothe the fear of death/fear of the unknown.
@liamlynch2115 that's certainly possible.
Tim Gibson, at 48:35 and just past, i believe you reference very popular pastors you know whose private lives are complete contradictions to their teachings. They are victimizing their parishioners with false visions of the world that will lead them to making any number of grave mistakes. Everyone deserves the truth. Please consider exposing these individuals.
So happy to say that people's eyes are being opened more and more as time goes by and yes "The Truth Will Set You Free" Once you come apart of it...!!
He does not look old enough to have spent that long in Christianity. Congrats on your freedom, Timmy!
he is around 60 if not more
@@ykd818 he dont and its easy to check too!!if you want lies just listen crap fanatic priests&pastors
"Thou Art That" by Joseph Campbell is a wonderful book which explores this more. I don't see the problem with viewing religion thru a mythical lens as myth can be every bit as powerful as religion.
Another great interview Tim.
Only recently found Timmy and love his work as well.
How does a hard believer, who believes all the stories as litteral and non-believer stay in a romantic relationship?
I honestly have no idea how they could face every day loving a person; whom they know the God they worship is sending to hell😅😅
At least for a hot minute it seems that lust rules over theology.
I cannot imagine it myself, as all the best after sex conversations
have no limits. But Christianity has limits on almost every topic.
Sounds awful in every way.
@@FoursWithin I like that..and it does, lol
@@alethiacharis2480 so true. Seems weird to me
I love Timmy's energy and positive vibes. I watch his videos all the time.
Me too mate 😊
I joined the Anglican boys society when I was ten. By the time I was twelve I saw the holes in the Christian story and left it all behind. Living in an area of rain forests and beautiful beaches it was a simple thing to feel the pulse of life around me. That became my point of worship and at seventy plus years of age it still is. Nature around me and nature in me.
I've never glommed to religious ideas in my whole life, as more than a passing flirtation whilst trying to work out whetehr there's any meaning to all this or not. Upshot being that I have the utmost respect for the honesty of Timmy's journey. The courage required to have these inklings and follow them into full fledged questioning, then intellectual conviction sufficient to accepting the consequences of a new understanding, is beyond my imagining. What a genuinely lovely person.
I have been married tons of times starting at 15 years old because my parents said I would burn in hell for having sex outside marriage and my life has really suffered being raised by creepy Christian parents
34:43 When I was a Christian, I experienced several manifestations of the Word Gifts. I gave words of wisdom, prophesy and knowledge. The majority of time, it seemed I had inside knowledge I had no way of knowing. After I left the faith, I eventually realized we are gifted with special psy gifts, either born with or developed. The experiences in the Pentecostal churches were a training ground for me to develop these psy gifts. Yes, I still, at times, heard that still quiet voice. However, I understand now, the voice is formatted and defined by the emotional intellectual framework of my experiences. I still have psy experiences however, they do not come with...thus Saith the lord.
By the way, the texts on gifts were added to the letters because enough people had psy and other abilities in the pagan experiences the church developers were forced to include them.
SEEKING leads to WISDOM, KNOWLEDGE, TRUTH, ENLIGHTENMENT, SELF-REALISATION, ONENESS, SALVATION.
BELIEF leads to ignorance, darkness, enslavement. Belief means to accept without proof. It is always enforced. Hence, the church is obsessed with conversions. It's a case of, the blind leading the blind into a pit.
Christians say God is love, that his love is infinite, that he loves every single person.
But the instant you get specific and say God loves homosexuals you become a pariah.
It really gets difficult to distinguish Christian love from Christian hate.
God hates sin , sin destroys people and everything. To hate what God says is sin is to be in the right mind. God hates perverted sexual conduct.
@@gracetou8963 That is what you believe because an ancient book of mythological stories told you as such
@@travisjazzbo3490 Nope put men who want to have sex with men on a island for 100 years and put woman and men on a island for 100 years and go back and see who is extinct. With no children . People are strip God made everything and man in rebellion will find out to late the truth. Man did not make a mountain, an ocean, the sky , all living creatures, Almighty God did. Satan is behind all lies and deception. Jesus Christ died , was buried and rose on the 3 day and ever lives ONLY way to heaven John 14:6. How come nobody says the Koran is not true or attack that , because Satan is behind everything that exalts itself above God through the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@gracetou8963 First, you have to demonstrate you have a god, not just a god concept in your mind. So far, that's never been done. Then, the question is also "What cannot be justified in the name of a god concept?" As long as a god wants it, it's fine, right? Slavery? No problem. Discrimination? Done. Anything but black and white thinking about sex. Of course. Scapegoating other groups. Sure. At some point, human morality has exceeded this god concept's morality. Two thousand-year-old books with ancient morality are not a yardstick for modern people to follow without any critical thinking.
@@gracetou8963So why did Yahweh create perverted sexual misconduct?
Another great interview Tim. I saw Timmy on another podcast and really loved his, positive energy and sense of humor.
Wow, the truth seeking 😅set Timmy free 🎉.
There’s so much in this that’s relatable with a few years at an Assembly of God church as part of my journey. His realisations came through finally, like myself, actually seeing the Bible for what it is. More meaning and purpose filled to preach ’de conversion’ is music to my ears ❤🎉❤🎉, it’s definitely his calling!
Only part watched so far but this is a great interview, gotta love the Tims!
He was a false convert.
The truth is that you are a god.
Thank you!
@@davidlafleche1142
Hey Groucho Marx,
since conversion is an act
based on misinformation
and propaganda
all converts are false.
40:50 yup, many of us were never abused. In fact, my childhood was as close as being perfect as it can get (despite Pentecostal church but my parents weren't hardcore.) I still turned out gay, and very comfortable in my own skin. Even if there was a way to change orientation, NO WAY I would do it. My parents were ok when i told them (I can't say i came out cause i was never in the closet 😊) It was quite normal reaction. They asked me several questions, not malicious, like "are you sure?" and other caring questions, if someone had ever touched me, or if I needed someone to talk to. Thankfully it was more like telling my parents I changed majors. I didn't mind their approach, maybe politically incorrect these days. They said to keep it to myself, cause church people gossip big time. Years later, my mom said (or admitted ) that she knew, so it wasn't a surprise, I guess 😊. They questioned what the church said about homosexuality. How could a child be possessed at such an early age, cause that's what the church used to say (again , they suspected from an early age.) Eventually, they left the church altogether.
There's no reason for me to have turned out gay. My brother and sister are both straight and we had an enviable childhood.
Has anyone ever considered Judaism? It is the closest thing we have to an original. I mean just look at the Jews through history. They are still here and they are starting to be a light to the nations. I can't be the only one that can see this. The past 15 years the rabbis have been teaching us. It's worth checking out. There are some good rabbis on RUclips. Tovia Singer is a good one. Rabbi Friedman is another one. They make a lot of sense if you can part with your ego and listen to them.
Personally, I'm open to listen to these rabbis but I'm not willing to say that I would "consider" converting to any organized religion at all.
I can’t understand how you do deep study of the Bible and come out of the other end still a believer. Seriously, how is that possible. It’s hard to make it through Genesis without encountering 50 contradictory statements
The political aspect of things is one that I think matters alot. The more you deconstruct, the more the norms that exist in our politics look startlingly similar to the religious dogma.
We get some pointers of how this could happen to Gibson after 30 years. He says he is much happier now, which means that he must have been plagued by rational thinking all along. And when he said he gave his children the freedom to chose, he was already on his way out of the cult himself. For the hopeless majority of Evangelical Christians, bringing up their children in their own faith is their greatest worry, and at the same time their greatest sin. I had to smile when Gibson said that he is now creating his content on the same days of the week as he had previously held his sermons.
I was Mormon, which is a pack of myths attached to the Christian myths.
Great interview. A really likeable guy. I can resonate so much with his deconversion process,.Thanks Tim
Great testimony! I so relate thank you Tim & Timmy
Thank you!
Compelling interview - so much of what Timothy said resonates with me. I have found there is greater awareness and spirituality after leaving Christianity. Ironic. Thanks to you both for this enjoyable video.
because western churches are brainwashed dogma christianity with bunch of pagan cults &tales
Spirituality is woo
I so agree, and yes it's very ironic.
Like Tim, it was the idea that only Christians were righteous enough to go to heaven was something that didn't sit right with me. I saw men who I knew were very "righteous" men that were way more "holly" that most Christians I knew and I couldn't see how they would go to hell for not being a Christian. That was one of the things the helped start my deconversion
He and I had the same path and yes God speaking to us is a mental illness
@rizwanrafeek3811
Seriously. There are billions of people on earth, each with their own story. Quoting 2 stories to argue your beliefs is beyond ludicrous.
@rizwanrafeek3811 I'm an ex Muslim. It is mental illness. There are lots of people in psych wards because of their delusions. Allah isn't speaking to anyone, and Muhammad wasn't a good enough person for Allah to single him out. Muhammad was a war lord.
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod You are free to believe in whatever superstition you choose. Just don't expect any rational people to swallow your claims on such pathetic arguments.
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod Given that I don't believe in undetectable, magical, supernatural beings (unlike you), can you clarify what specific "superstition" you claim I have?
@@LogicStandsBeforeGod, as if your experiences aren't antidotal? We crossed before and like I said before you aren't that special to say your beliefs are better or more true than anyone else. You're in the same boat as everyone else and you can dismiss the 6 billion other people believes as bogus just because YOU don't like them.
I was raised UPC . I married into IFB , I am now for lack of a better term atheist . I went to other churches and religions looking for truth and found that they were all saying the same thing “ they are doing it wrong “ but they were all using the same instruction manual. The best IFU for the Bible is to realize it was our ancestors best interpretation for things they didn’t understand.
It was a very interesting video. However I often wonder if individuals who have deconverted from Christianity Ever wonder if they got it wrong. If their deconversion is in fact a trick of the enemy to cause them to miss out on eternal life. I wonder if most individuals who choose to deconvert Ever give any serious consideration to what may happen to their souls once they die. One thing we know with absolute certainty that transcends religion As a whole, Irregardless of where I particular faith and religious affiliation may find us we all Know that death is an inevitable part of Life. Do individuals who choose to be converted ever wonder if their souls will span eternity in paradise or do they believe that there is a slight possibility that there is a heaven or hell after this life. I certainly can understand an individual's frustration with traditional religion. It seems so very difficult to adhere to all that most religions including Christianity Encourage us to abide by. It is hard for me to a God that doesn't seem to answer but we have to constantly make excuses for why that is and accept it when God does not. I am just still uncertain as to whether or not God is real or just Something that I've been taught to believe in. It is so very hard to disconnect from what you have been taught to believe. I was born and raised In an evangelical household. I truly hope there is a God and he is forgiving and understands that some of us may make decisions based on our frustration and lack of being connected to his presence. When I look at the world in which we live it stands to reason that there is something so much bigger than us. Thanks for the interesting video.
" I often wonder if individuals who have deconverted from Christianity Ever wonder if they got it wrong."
Of course we do. It is all part of growing up, and out of superstition. Religious Indoctrination is seriously damaging.
"I wonder if most individuals who choose to deconvert Ever give any serious consideration to what may happen to their souls once they die. "
Believing in something spurious as the soul, is one of the first things we grow out of.
"Do individuals who choose to be converted"
We don't choose. We just wake up from our superstitious slumber, and discover reality, and reason. Once you have gone through the process of deconversion (which might take years, everything becomes so much clearer. Your rational thinking is no longer shackled by the pernicious threats that permeate christian theology.
"if their souls will span eternity in paradise"
Why would we believe in those fantasies?
" or do they believe that there is a slight possibility that there is a heaven or hell "
Of course not.
"It is so very hard to disconnect from what you have been taught to believe."
As I said before, religious indoctrination is very damaging. It is a truly evil and poisonous thing.
"Every religion is false except the one i believe in"
- Every religious person ever
You seem tied to fear of what would happen if you did not believe. And that is going to muddy your thinking. Nobody is threatening you into believing that RUclips is a online platform that hosts different channels. But you believe it anyway. Why? Because it's true.
Amazing amazing interview!!! I enjoyed every minute of it, thank you both!!
@33:00 do you hear voices?
Finally, someone who gets it. Funny it took 30 years but better late than never
It took me 50 years
Quite refreshing,thanks to both.
I am listening with pleasure the whole interview. Many thanks from me from Europe the Netherlands. I tried so hard to believe but i can’t because there are so many things that doesn’t make sense plus when i started to make questions and everything felt apart.
Ex-pastor Timmy is so cool. De-conversion is trully liberating..
I've been an atheist for 60 years and better late than never. Welcome to a life of reason, not fear.
I have no fear. I love Jesus with all my heart and all my soul. I gladly admit I’m nothing compared to his goodness. I was in a coma for almost two months. I was not raised with religion. But I don’t need a church to tell me who was with me. All glory goes to God. He is enough for me. Don’t need a church to read the Bible.
@@NurseChapel_NCC1701 Get a life!
The people all together are God, not a higher entity above man.
I love Timmy’s perspective ! Found his channel a couple weeks ago
Dude, stay away from poisonous teachings, it will destroy you fighting your creator.
What a fantastic interview! Thanks!
I had a Hindu desk mate in 3rd grade. We were really good friends. At the house fellowships the adults would preach and pray fervently against Hindu beliefs and practices in the neighbourhood. They seemed genuinely terrified. That was terribly confusing as a kid.
I still got saved later on and went on to get a lot of people saved 🤡
A light has change your world.
Welcome
Consider having a debate with Jimmy Akin from Catholic Answers I think he can surprise you and he's very sociable.
There is a section in here that is really scary. Gibson talks about how he read Sapiens by Yuval Harari, and how he discovered that we actually have more than a single neanderthal molar to prove evolution is not just a theory (you know, the worst kind of definition of a theory, some one pulled it out of their rear end), yet previous to reading this, Gibson pontificated from the pulpit about the single molar ... and then something tugged at his conscience ... Harari's book maybe (why didn't Gibson just not believe it, treat it as just another theory?) - but no, he believed what he read (BTW, Hariri's book is pretty low brow for a real scientist), anyway, so he deconstructs as a fundamentalist Christian, the definition of which is he believed all the creatures went two-by-two into Noah's ark etc. This is a grown man! It's fricken crazy. What was he doing, living under a rock? And yet, even if we had only ONE neanderthal molar, that would still fully support the truth of evolution, because neanderthals died out about 25,000 years ago, well before the bible and all that crap. Its like he didn't even make that connection ... it's fricken scary, if that is the level of stupidity humans are capable of. We're doomed. There is no hope for us.
Very enlightening 🌹
This is interesting because I’ve seen the exact same argument about human parents and kids from Christians to show that God wouldn’t abandon anyone- “I would never abandon or torture my kid, and there’s no way I’m better than God, so if anyone says that God would send someone to hell then they’re lying”.
God doesn’t send anyone to hell, people go to hell by choice. Out of love God cannot force you against your free will and that is the beauty God.
Growing up in RC schools and church, I assumed we all knew the stories in the Bible were myth, allegory etc. Then I got older and around other people from different ages and backgrounds and was surprised to find there are a lot of people that take it all as literal truth. Wow! It’s all so silly.
Which episode do you interview the son of the guy behind the Left Behind movie? I’d love to watch it.
ruclips.net/video/ezm02GPTWJo/видео.html
If I said Left Behind, I meant to say A Thief in the Night. Jamin was very insightful -- definitely worth watching!