Coraline Breakdown - Scene 11 | The Fangirl Scene-ic Saturdays
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2023
- It's time for Miss Spink and Miss Forcible to give Coraline some sketchy advice in today's scene dissection! And there is SO MUCH more to this than what the grannies say!
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Funny thing I noticed is that both of them end up being right about their advise, Coraline is in danger and needs to be careful. And she does end up needing a "tall stepladder" when she gets the key from high up in the fall using a bunch of books and while doing this she is also wearing green which she was told not to wear.
The fact that they had the knocker, the chairlift, and the custom shelving for their taxidermy dogs combined with the fact that they don't have jobs or cars makes me think that they have been living there for a VERY long time. That might even be where they settled when they became too old to travel with the circus. That's could be why they ended up at the pink palace of all places, they were passing through with the carnival and when they decided to do their last show they just happed to be in the area
Coraline was told by Mel to share her dreams with the actresses downstairs. Yes, Mel wanted Coraline out of her hair but that was what she was told to go talk about. I think it explains Coraline saying, “I guess not” when Spink asked if she came to tell them something. Coraline was just a little spooked and unnerved by the tea reading and was ready to go.
Growing up, I was always told whistling in the house is said to call upon evil and spirits
Ooooh good to know, thank you!
Ah, that's why my grandma hated indor whistling.
I think whistling backstage in the theatre is bad luck as well.
It is also a belief that you should not whistle in a theathre or it will bring bad luck and with their past work makes sense they would still believe that dispite not being in a theathe anymore
@@TheFangirlWatches
Megan.
You seemed surprised when Neil Gaimain confirmed that Miss Spink and Miss Forcible are a lesbian/same-sex couple (yay for diversity and inclusion!). There were lots of hints in the story, but you should have put two and two together when Coraline had to split apart the taffy Spink and Forcible's joined hands and take what looked like a wedding ring that contained one of the ghost childrens' souls (or at least, it seemed to be shaped like a wedding ring, what else could it possibly be?).
Also, I highly recommend this video to you:
ruclips.net/video/oUHIWRWE3IY/видео.html
It's not as "hidden" and "secretish" as some people think it is, and considering how we have gay, bi and non-binary characters in "Good Omens", another book/show made/written by Neil Gaiman, (especially the TV show, I mean, there's two lesbians who are in love with each other in season 2, Beelzebub is non-binary, and also Aziraphale and Crowley who choose to appear/present as male most of the time have romantic feelings for each other) I think Neil Gaiman openly support the LGBT community and wanted to add diversity and inclusion in his books and TV shows. As a member of the LGBT community myself (I'm bisexual and genderfluid), I think this is a good thing, because there's more representation in the media and entertainment for LGBT folks and more acceptance for LGBT folks today but there's still some work to be done because LGBT people are still a marginalized group/community (and in some places they are still discriminated against in housing, education, employment, health care, etc, there are even some countries where they are still executed or jail for their sexual orientation and/or gender identity and/or for being in a CONSENSUAL romantic and sexual relationship with another CONSENTING ADULT, so there's still some work to be done, but at least it's getting somewhat better and there are states and cities where they have full equality).
Take care,
Mimi.
Yes, April Spink and Miriam Forcible is correct. If it's hard to remember, when Spink says "How nice to see you Caroline" Coraline says "still Coraline Miss Spink"
I think what a lot of people forget is that the longer you spend time with and around someone, the more they tend to grate a little on your nerves, irregardless of your relationship with said person, be it romantic, platonic or familial; there is the expressin 'they bicker like an old married couple' for a pretty good reason and with the creator's confirmation, I can see that be the reason for the catty squabbling well enough; if they knew each other as young girls going into the berlesque shows together at the same time, like eighteen at the very youngest, and had been by each other's side the whole time; it would not be hard to believe that despite being head over heels, they would pick at each other over the tiniest thing. I know my grandparents did and my grandfather is a good ten years on my grandmother at most. In the end, I guess its just up to interpretion.
i feel like it's more normalized to see straight couples act like this and it's brushed off but queer couples can be the same way.
@@ratlady10101 Completely agree, I find this refreshing with the context of these two being a couple, since its so normallized with straight couples, the fact its being done with these two makes this film surprisingly forwards-thinking for the time, its a sweet touch
Personally that's the only change I dislike about the movie from the book I the book miss Spink and Forcable felt a lot more loving and they bickers a lot less though I do see them as like an old couple I wouldn't call them toxic at all like some people do
I don't know what this would effect but Miss Spink says "never wear green in your dressing room" yet later in the movie (yes I know it's the other Miss Spink) but other Miss Spink has a green jumpsuit on when she takes off her old lady suit.
There's an old superstition about wearing green costumes in theatres and it means bad luck.
I think it is interesting that they have a broken mirror in their house, especially since they seem to be superstitious (ex. No whistling in the house, the tea leafs, telling Coraline to never wear green) and a broken mirror is know to give bad luck. It could also be foreshadowing to when Coraline breaks her mirror when she sees her parents trapped. Mirrors play a big role in this movie, the mirror coraline breaks and the mirror the beldam keeps the ghosts in. Maybe this mirror relates to the other world somehow?
I don't know why but i decided to look at what their names mean, and found it kinda interesting.
According to the Collins dictionary, "spink" can mean finch or the chirp from a finch. Forcible can mean (as an adjective) convincing or effective (as in a convincing/effective/forcible argument).
It made me wonder if the Beldam uses the two women as a way to confuse and entangle Coraline further - Miss Spink is the one that lures and also warns, while Miss Forcible is the "convincer".
One could make the argument that the future reading is pretty accurate. Coraline IS in danger, and the "hand" that Spink sees is obviously the Beldam's; and even though the interpretations that Forcible gives sound like nonsense, the description of "a tall dark beast" very much applies to the other mother's true form, and since a giraffe is a tall, lanky, four legged creature, it could also be used as a VERY methaphorical decription for the Beldam.
I know many people have said that whistling in the house is an old superstition but as a theater kid I can confirm that my theatre is very superstitious and will yell at anyone who whistles in the theatre. I also think it would fit very well with spink and forcibles' theatre background
When I was small, my mother cautioned me not to whistle in my grandmother's house because my great grandmother (grandma's mom) was very supertitious and believed whistling was "devil's music." I'm not sure where this idea came from, but it came to mind when I saw the doormat.
4:24 or the whistling sign is because one of the ladies has a hearing aid (i cant remember which one but im pretty sure its mentioned in the movie "turn up ur hearing aid" or something to that effect) and if u dont know hearing aids are HIGHLY SENSITIVE to things such as whistling or even a strong wind as it will cause them to go haywire and emit that annoying high pitch noise that u get with tinnitus or being too close to a loud blast such as canon fire.
Spink and Forcible came off more as a couple in the book. They didn't bicker so much and seemed more like, well an old married couple 😂
5:19 THIS. THIS. SO MUCH THIS.
April Spink is the pink short one and Miriam Forcible is the tall blonde lol
Okay I think I got it right then, thanks! lol
@@TheFangirlWatches I always figured but you made me second guess myself😂
I always assumed from the poster since it has the names next to them
14:50 When I first saw the movie, my reading of this part was "Coraline's hand got hopelessly stuck in the candy jar..."😊
I belive that the "No, I geuss not" comment, Coraline makes to the two ladies is meant very specifically for something. She seems as though she somehow knows the other mother is a danger in some sense, and when miss Spink mentions there being a danger in her life, she might connect the dots there. But when its underplayed by giving the weird advice "dont wear green in your dressing room" and so on, she is discurraged from discussing the matter with them. She might have belived to have just found two people who might belive her 'dream' of the other mother, but realizes its a lost cause!! Also I love sharing my theories with you!! You have made my Coraline obsession expand from the very beginning, and ive been following along for years so these videos are a real treat!!!
Actually, "no whistling in the house", could be a reference to olden theater. Back then, they would use sailors for backstage workers, as they knew how to use the pulleys and whatnot. Sailors would communicate with each other by whistling, and each pitch meant something different. (For example, dropping a set piece.) But, when people who were walking in the theater whistled, the sailors often mistook it as a command, and dropped set pieces, and usually killed people. It then became a rule that people couldn't whistle in the theater!
Btw the short one is miss spink and the tall one is miss forcible
In theater there is a superstition that whistling in the backstage is a jynx.
Really?! I’ve been in the theatre for 20 years and hadn’t heard that one - thanks for sharing!
Hey Meghan! @thefangirl ❤
just wanted to mention something about the welcome mat I hope it helps
I think lots of cultures, religions, spiritualists and superstitious individuals throughout the world commonly think that whistling draws in spirits, ghosts, demons etc.. which depending on the belief that is either a good or bad thing.
If the people who live/own the house ask you not to whistle where they reside its cuz they don’t want u to call spirits or “open a channel” of which they can connect because you don’t want bad ones to enter. 😮
I only know from my puerto rican family and up bringing not sure if other ppl with my same heritage believe that I’m sure it varies but my mom and grandmother who were “folk-catholics/ christians” they held many spiritual beliefs that aren’t found in christianity directly.
Not my personal beliefs but I thought I’d share one very possible interpretation given how often I heard it from adults even ones unrelated to me. I also like a lot of witchy or supernatural media so I see the whistling thing come up a lot.
Yes! I came to comment the same thing! My grandmother always says “A whistling woman and a crowing hen always comes to a bad end” when I would whistle in the house. Very superstitious😂
I definitely see then as an old married couple. Also, notice how dark their house is. Obviously since it used to be a basement, but clearly the landlord didn't care about giving it proper lighting. Which is obviously why they have all those fairy lights. That's also probably not helping their eyesight.
Also, I could be wrong but, would they have not grown up in a time when women weren't allowed to show any skin at all?
Yay more Coraline video and also ms.spink and Ms. Forceable all they poster make reference to all popular Shakespeare play. Also Coraline hat is a reference to a Japanese school boy hat and the creator designs it with his son in mind.Even the dead dog names are after popular Shakespeare actor from the popular Shakespeare plays
I didn’t know that about the hate or the dog names - thank you for sharing!
@@TheFangirlWatches you're welcome 😁 I been on a Coraline binge lately
YESSSS! 🎉 every Friday I’m like TOMORROW SHE UPLOADS! 😊
Wait!! Coraline did have a reason to go down there, tell them about her dream!!
The fortune, both interpretations are correct. Because the true form of the other mother is very tall, but we also see a toy giraffe in Coraline's other room.
Do they even have a bedroom or a bathroom? Like where do they sleep and where do they wash up?
It is completely unclear, and I’m not sure if the director just didn’t consider it, or if they live that way.
For context, most of the advice comes from Old theater superstitions. It was considered bad luck to whistle in an empty theater because old backstage workers used to communicate via whistling. The rule about never wearing green in your dressing room is a holdover from the Victorian era when a lot of people got poisoned by green dye that was made with arsenic. The total step ladder is so you don't fall. In the book, some of the rooms have green wallpaper in the other world, which is how the majority of the people got poisoned from arsenic from the green dye.
In older houses like this, even when this movie was made, it was still pretty common to have poisonous paint or wallpaper. It's still an issue in slumlord houses.
7:46 its looks like at the room of the beldam at the end when she is transformed and all the bugs etc instead of furnitures !
I think the big picture that you said looks like a trophy is really a picture of a long haired ladys face.
Not me just now noticing that Mr. B and Spink & Forcible are all tied to the circus…using their act in the other world as that connection.
lol there is a LOT going on in this movie, and it's easy to miss! I've seen Coraline dozens of times and even I'm just noticing some of these details.
Best part of my week ❤ I love your content so much
Aww thank you so much!
5:39 ohhhh I love saying hello to my friends and family dogs as they greet me by jumping up. Just know if their dog (s) are the type to jump u plant ur feet and it'll be fine.
Yeah but with big dogs it’s just too much. They nearly knock you over and get right in your face.
@@toniyah5381 great they're happy to see u. better than the indifference treatment.
@@davidfitzpatrick6535 I like my personal space and most dogs don’t seem to be good at giving that.
@@toniyah5381 I guess ur not the hugging type then ? NP u do u but for me Im quite glad to have the dog jump for joy when they see me coming in. That plus I believe any dog is a lap dog.
Watch these as soon as I see them
Whistling was always seen as unlucky in the theatre.
I'm so happy QwQ Thank u for everything (for mention, for videos & etc!!!!!!!)
0:58 Literally translated, the first row on the envelope says Cheese "Juggling bear". From the template this name follows, I can conjecture that "juggling bear" is the name of the cheese manufacturer. The company appears to be unincorporated since it lacks a prefix such as JSC or OOO that would identify it as a legal entity, so it's probably a very small, family-operated business. Considering the whimsical, circus related name, it could even be owned by Bobinski's acquaintances or family. Why they would specialize in making cheese for circus animals, however, is beyond me.
the no whistling thing, my mother HATES whistling when i was a kid she would tell me off for doing so, so maybe they just dont like it too
Those old women have small dogs that they probably can’t take outside as often as the dogs would like. They do not want gross carpet.
"According to Neil Gaiman, the author of Coraline, these two women are a secretish romantic couple. But I would've never guessed that from the way they interact."
Oh, really, Megan? You never would've guessed that from the way they interact? They quarrel like an old married couple a lot, they raise dogs together, they have a domestic ambience in their home, and Coraline had to pull their joined hands apart to take the pearl RING (that looks like a wedding ring to me) that contains one of the ghost children's souls. Also, they’re a couple fighting and trying to outdo the other on stage in the movie (I don't remember if that scene is in the original novel, but it's in the movie anyway), which makes the scene with the Other Ms. Spink and Forcible fighting during their performance funnier. And that's just a few examples.
It's great to see that Neil Gaiman is LGBT-inclusive in his novels, TV shows, and movies and that he support LGBT acceptance and LGBT equality. As a member of the LGBT community myself (I'm bisexual and genderfluid/non-binary), I respect him for that and for being inclusive of minorities.
Have a nice day,
Mimi.
I get the feeling they have been living there since there show but days because they would have money to get all that stuff like the knocker and things like that to entertain any of there adoring fans who might want to visit
Also coralines hat kinda reminds me of some hats I've seen teen boys were in anime as sorta a school uniform Wich would make some sense because if I remember the video on liakias RUclips channel correctly the one of the concept artist is Japanese and Coraline is kinda a tomboy so it makes sense to me
Also in the THEATER 🎭 it is bad luck to whistle because back in the day crew members would signel echother by whistling so to prevent an accident none else is sapoes to whistle
About whistling - in my country many ppl say if u wistle in the house, u will not have money! I think this is due to the fact that they are very superstitious
O M G I never noticed that Miss Spink's nipples are visible... looooooool whaaaaaaaaat ahahah
The ladies have chosen to share their lives and seemingly eternities together. They would likely be there for each other through the high times of their careers and through losing it all later in life, despite their bickering banter. Both not married despite likely having suitors or admirers. Their job of choice likely did not make them highly sought after as “respectable” wives. And yes, they may not have wanted to either out of sexual preference. Whether or not they have ever been sexually intimate with one another does not change or negate their bond.
I have personally known older people of the same gender living out their golden years together. Some were intimate partners. Some absolutely were not. But they all had a mutual connection of similar life circumstances and a loving bond.
Ohhh no I just realized we didn't get a video yesterday
I made it to end!😁
these videos help my anxiety.
They do drink a lot of tea, so what if the tea is more of a metifor for drinking like Bobinski or maybe even just flat out smoking and getting high because they want to feel young again and can't accept that they are not burlesquers anymore?
I say they more act like siblings them attacking each other Which in my experience that’s more likely to happen with siblings good video i’m excited for more analyzing 👍👍
Yeah, the two, to me, feel like Grumpy Old Men the movie and not some secret romance subplot.
@@TheFangirlWatches
If Neil Gaiman says they're a romantic couple, they're a romantic couple. It's his characters, He knows better than anybody else what they are. Also, where do people get this idea that only siblings can bicker and quarrel? As if romantic couples didn't do that when if fact they do. Straight couples do it, and gay couples also do it. They love each other but they have arguments and disputes sometimes, all romantic couples do, all romantic couples have their ups and downs and have good days and bad days. Also, have you ever heard the saying, "fighting like an old married couple"? Married people have fights with their spouses sometimes, whether they are young or old, it happens, but most of them manage to make it work in spite of those little quarrels, and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, so these light fights sometimes make you relationship even stronger because you learn from one another and love wins in the end.
Mimi.
@@michelled.4874 well, with their tendencies to attack each other, both physically and verbally And the constant desire to one up each other The sample for this tea leaf scene With constantly giving Coraline their own versions, and telling her they’re better than the other in this scene from my knowledge, they keep doing this, not something you would commonly see in romantic couples and we are specifically talking about this scene not some other scene in the movie so don’t pull that. And I say with authority, they act a lot more like siblings then they do a couple for the fact I have siblings myself and can confirm this
behavior. For the movie to betray them as siblings would make sense books can get away with a lot that movie can’t.
Is it me or does Forcible have cataracts?
I’m currently reading the book and I honestly do get the saphic themes with spink and forcible, but I’m a bi women so idk if that made me bias in thinking that
You know what I’ve noticed? And this is a very amateur observation that I didn’t look into or look closely at OR EVEN COMPARED but a lot of the wonders from the other world look like things that already exist and it almost reminds me of the concept that the parents were in the snow globe and come covered in snow as if the beldam put Coraline in places like the fire place! Which looks like an opera house with the dogs being in the balconies and the couch being chairs or something because for an elderly person’s house why are there so many chairs.. aligned so that the focus goes to the “stage” and there’s even RUGS placed to lead towards the fireplace/stage WHO DOES THAT?
The frames photo looks like mel at a glance. But it doesnt look human
hey made it to end
They are 100% a couple. I always though so. I think that if they where a hetero couple ppl would aume they where. They are the staryotipe of "fighting like an old married couple".
I got a little theory about both fnaf and coraline being in same universe
Also the when they agure about which tea coraline i think I spotted
The kettle which looks like a wired one and maybe just maybe i do believe that the old ladies maybe got their dogs after leaving the theatre show day and dogs would help miss forcible to guide her and I do believe that ms forcible outfit is kinda inspired by a Japanese como
Wait I gotta hear the Fnaf connection
@@_SunscreenQueen_ the theory is still a debating point cause if you think about it animatronics would be more popular than broadway and circus and i kinda want to believe that the beldam and william afton are siblings cause they both love to kill off kids and a something else that might make sense is that fact that ashland is not far away from Utah however like i said it is in the debate section
Could spink be black since the posters seem to present her as having a darker skin tone
i think spink is the small one and forcible is the booba one. just feels like their names match that way. spink for spunky and forcable for... dramatic :V
That’s also what I think, but I was having trouble with getting 100% verification anywhere
forcible is the big "blind" one
Is that a Fleur De Lis on Coralines hat?
The whole "fleur de lis is a symbol of death" thing is just garbage. I was born and live in Canada and Canada is in the province of Quebec and the symbol on the Quebec flag is a fleur de lis and the symbol on my province's flag certainly doesn't symbolizes death. That's just nonsense, To us Canadian, the fleur de lis symbolizes freedom and liberty.
@@michelled.4874 Im from New Orleans, we have a different set of beliefs than that of Canada apparently, because here when the slaves were brought into the city they were branded with the symbol of the Fleur De Lis, a symbol which was brought here alongside a ton of oppression so that carried on negative connotations throughout the years. I wouldn't call it garbage but an example of how different symbols can change depending on their use and environment.
I know that boskiy is all blue why all blue
Honesty the second photo here (the one u said looked like a trophy) looks like a picture of Coraline. i see her hair shape and blue-purple hair which could possibly mean that they knew a girl who looked like Coraline (possibly the sister who went missing to the beldum as a child?) and has a picture of her as a remebrance. Possible reincarnation maybe?