I couldn't handle the original JLP because I was too traumatized for the rage of betrayal to be heard as helpful... The acoustic version of JLP is, along with Time Out of Mind (Dylan 2003) helped me heal. I'm very grateful❤
Narcissistic parents completely shape the trajectory of a childs upbringing. Trust, love, empathy, mercy are all conditional qualities and a means to an end. It takes a lifetime to observe, accept, unlearn and relearn. It also has meant walking away from all of the family I have ever known. Thank you for the conversation!
An oldster now, but it is so wild... I feel empathy, but was taught by the NPD parent it is wrong. It wasn't until I was a young adult and studying psychology on a graduate level (how typical!) I even began to get a clue into that dynamic.
Such a good quote from Dr Ramani "The narcissistic structure is based on a delusional sense of perfection" and this is why they can't take any responsibility and can't accept feedback of any potential negativity. It is a life of walking on eggshells not to 'set off' the narcissist who--in return--debases and put downs others with no regard due to a lack of correct levels of empathy. It's truly a nightmare disorder
ALL participants of building; maintaining & living within a "civilized" / constructed environment ARE "narcissistic" to ALL other life and the ecosystem that produces it.
The narcissistic structure of delusional perfection can also be described as fantasy ego-identity, with which they identify. If you damage their fantasy with reality, they feel you have attacked them.
Heh... I've always liked her music, but didn't know her as a regular person dealing with these types of influences and so aware of Dr. Ramani who I'm definitely aware of.
From this conversation, it's clear Alanis has put the HOURS in becoming so empathetic and self aware. 🙏🏽 Talented artist; but also creative human being.
Thank you. Both of you. As a man who experienced 20 years of marriage unknowingly to a (after the fact) clinically diagnosed person with FULL spectrum Cluster B disorder and so much more… thank you for having this discussion and producing the content for awareness. The abuse and destruction these people cause should be a criminal offense. It is a battle of the soul; armor up! Healing and rebuilding in isolation and on my own. Stay alert! Stay alive! Stay strong! Peace ✌️
@@cajuncrackerranch7990 Well I hope they update the laws in the US as well. Obviously it would apply to both sexes. The law in the UK came into effect in 2015, which was too late for me. I already had severe ptsd and brain damage from stress by then, but I was glad of the validation. It should absolutely be taken as seriously as physical abuse, the stress of these situations can make people ill, which is a form of physical abuse in my opinion.
@@jasminebarratt1809I have heard about that in England. I didn't know much about NPD till I lived with one,a old high school sweetie from 46 years ago, I let back in my life she was down and out no fault of her own,I told her no relationship before she came to my home,well she roped me in and it was the worst experience I've ever been through. What is really sad she is the only woman I truly loved. I won't even speak to her for what she put me through. She seems to forget how she treated me.
Great to have this podcast back. My father was a narcissus. I've only just been diagnosed with autism at age 53. When I was young my father would call me partially retarded and encouraged my older sisters to call me that too. I could never understand why he was cruel, why he dominated to the point I was scared of him. Today I have no friends, I fear people. I surround myself with my horses and cats. Animals I trust, people I don't.
I love what Dr. Ramani said about teaching children empathy is a parent's highest calling because I raised two very empathetic boys, but this made life for them with a father who was diagnosed ASPD/NPD very difficult, and by society's yard stick I failed as a mother with my eldest son taking over my scapegoat role and his brother being the invisible child both had pronounced and diagnosed cases of CPTSD. One is working hard on healing at 26, but his older brother died of an accidental overdose a few years ago. As a mother, it was terrifying and heartbreaking to see what was happening to my children and not be able to protect them. It was also a highly narcissistic family so the only place they learned empathy was when they were with me, but ultimately I thought this set them up to be hurt even worse by their disordered family, especially their dad.
I think they would have been hurt anyway and I don't think that showing them empathy added to it because you need empathy for yourself too in order to heal. I'm sorry for your loss but don't carry the blame that belongs to their narcissistic father; it was his doing and taking the blame of someone else's actions is not healthy for you and it takes the blame off him. I understand the guilt of not being able to rescue someone, I have lived it and I was shocked especially with my youngest sister, whom I have protected my whole life, when I realized she was a narcissist and a very vulnerable, covert one after five decades. Feeling guilty for not being able to undo what my mother did (how she influenced her so badly) is delusional on my side because I'm not God and I don't have superpowers. Of course, there's lots of grief but I hope you understand what I am saying and stop blaming yourself for the wrongdoings of their father. God bless you 💓
Thank you for this comment and share. I am 45 and trying to heal from lifetime of abuse and trauma, a lot of it in advert but stuff just came to ahead with a borderline/NPD partner who I now coparent with. Really important to me to be teaching her empathy and integrity, that there is right and wrong and hurting people is not OK, doing it intentionally and taking pleasure from it is complete shit and as long as there’s breath in my body, she will not go in that direction.
I am sorry 😞. My situation is similar. Divorced and my youngest is really going through it. Realizing all this and he was ne er seen by his father. Life is very difficult for him. Plus trauma and ptsd due to injury. I am so sorry about your oldest son.
Oh my goodness, kids. When my son was in grade/middle school, and he was and is very intelligent, I would tell him that I cared much less about grades than if he was KIND to others. He is autistic, and was high enough functioning as to be able to somewhat mask this and get through high school but hated it. I am proud to say that he is still very thoughtful and kind. He struggles so much on other levels, but his attitude to life and others is healthy.
I've already watched Dr. Ramani's videos when I went through a traumatic breakup from a person with NPD. Now seeing my favorite artist having a conversation with her is the cherry on top. Please continue this. Alanis, you are so well articulated and the curious questions you were putting forth were so intriguing to listen to and watch.
I’ve been having a hard time leaving a narcissistic relationship and everything you said about this person rings so true about them. They are always playing the victim never taking accountability, feeling like they are better than most people , most people are stupid , but also feeling like he was a POS and unworthy. He would never ask me questions about myself, never wanted to define the relationship. I also felt so uneasy in his presence in a way I’ve never known before. It should have been easy to walk away from this but it wasn’t. One thing it did do was highlight my own shadows and I’ve learned to set better boundaries. Yesterday I was in the store and You Learn came on and had me in tears and then today this video popped up it definitely was divine guidance.
Glad you stumbled upon this knowledge I was in a 15 year narcissistic relationship, which I had to escape. It’s not easy but necessary for you to live your best life.🙏💙
I agree, that there is an uneasiness with people who lack empathy, when you realize they have none. :( It's called "The Uncanny Valley." They are like human, but not-like-human. The same feeling people get with humanoid robots.
That sounds like my covert narc husband of MANY years.. at least you’ve gained a lot of insight.. it’s hard because so many of us have this codependent personality..
( and yes, never asks me how I feel about things or really any personal things about me ever. He had all the lead acting roles in H.S… and lacks empathy.. I wish I’d known about covert narcissism years ago.
Dad died suddenly a month after I turned five. Mom tried to turn me into him. At 72, I'm multi-degreed, published, married & widowed, and still suffering from Mom..
Well look at you achieving in spite of mom. People who say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those who are doing it. Way to go! Keep getting it done! 👍🏾
I had no idea that Alanis was doing interviews or that she was so freaking brilliant! I liked her music in the 90s, I was a teenager and she was super big on the radio. But I don’t really follow Hollywood or watch TV or anything else, so, personal lives had no idea until Johnny Depp almost lose his career and potentially his life to that psycho/BPD Amber heard.. Really cool to see more and more people having these conversations. And Alanis is freaking bad ass.
She is so awesome you're correct,after I ended a relationship with a women with NPD and alot of trauma that caused her CPTSD plus she has TBI.my Dr put me on Valium my Dr knows her so she knew what I was going through. Anyway I started listening to Alanis interviews and I was just in awe how smart she is.I just adore her and Dr.Ramini.
Wow. Dear Dog...did this beautiful talented and wise Alanis Morisette just say that she identified with many traits of (Quiet BPD)?? I have even more respect for her now, for standing above the stigma that most attach to the DSM 'labels.'
Alanis - Thank you so much for this interview. My wife felt so alone dealing with her family. I've seldom heard anyone approach narcissism with consciousness like you do. I wrote a book in 2009 called - "Get off your high horse and walk". I listed you as one of my heroes. It's so nice to feel that we are not alone, and I also feel that consciousness may be on the rise, and that is why there is so much awareness about narcissism. Things that were once hidden in the framework is now brought to light.❤❤❤
How is it possible that I dreamed this conversation just one month ago? I had a sudden strong desire to listen to Jagged Little Pill for days, and while I was doing so in a very mindful way, I just wished she could have a conversation with Dr Ramani. This is beyond amazing. Thank you both and everyone making this happen ❤
Thank you so much for this interview Alanis. I was stuck in such a toxic relationship with a narcissist for 7 years and I would have never guessed that I would fall for that type nonsense. But he was charming and sucked me in. He was a master mimicker for what people want to hear. I went through unspeakable abuse both psychologically and sexually and it ended me in the hospital dying and coming back to life. I've been on the soul journey since 2012. It was truly through this suffering that I had my spiritual Awakening. I could tell by the lyrics of your song "Thank You" that you had a transformation as well. Much love ❤
Thanks for a unique interview. I have been following Dr Ramani for years (I'm a clinical psychologist) and watch her interviews but notice people keep asking her very basic questions about narcissism. Thanks for having a bigger discussion about other PDs, particularly BPD and complex trauma as that's an area I work in a lot.
You should do a conversation with Joan Jett, since you're going to be with her on tour soon. Leading up to that, how about do a conversation with her? She's super spiritual, and it would be very interesting for fans.
I am so delighted hearing this conversation with her and Dr. Ramani. I don’t really follow Hollywood stuff, though I always loved Alanis music back in the day. Cool to see her having these awesome and brilliant conversations… Makes sense that she is smart, but I had no idea what a great solid human she actually is!
Painful when she mentions about someone stealing money from you because she actually lived that. 😢😢 Very necessary conversation. Alanis is gifted in so many ways. A huge addition to this world !!!!
Im a psychologist and my husband got involved in his company with the poster boy for cluster B personality disorders - indeed - a person who I consider to be a 'dark triad' . Sadly, this person managed to take over my husbands company and 'coming for us' legally / financially for several years. To understand the modus operandi and how destructive this person is has saved us from going quite mad. Listening often to Dr Ramani on the regular has been like getting coaching. We have needed that reinforcement that the person we are dealing with is never going to suddenly realise their behaviour is destructive and abnormal has helped us in our attempts to remain sane and survive. I feel like a I can better help those who have experienced orchestrated narcissistic attack - although its pretty draining to have to go through it for myself. I wonder If I will personally ever get to a place when I can talk about it without feeling like I have been run over by a truck.
I feel the same way. Unfortunately, when I look back in retrospect, there's no good way to avoid these people. They are everywhere. Parents, siblings, "friends," spouses, kids, co-workers, caregivers....... from cradle to grave. They're everywhere.
Alanis has an incredibly organized mind. she packed 6, 7 , 8 , 9 talks into a single talk, she got it all in. Amazing. Uma Thurmann's artwork now, is as important to me as Kimberly Shannon Murphy. I'm not into using competition as a leg up but I'm also not into the appearance of team work, for sake of control.
Dr Ramani changed my life, I was in a shit marriage to a grandiose narcissist and I took her advice and got my ducks in a row I stood my ground and I am so happy
What a treat! The Artist who penned the lyrics that helped me even to understand narcissism was a thing many moons ago (I'm 48) having a conversation with the person whose videos I have found very valuable in helping me to understand toxic humans and how to protect myself from them. I love this, thank you.
Brilliant insights from both! My narc is very self satisfied and certain of his spiritual superiority and can hold forth for quite a long time about his ‘adventures’ in this realm while keeping a group spellbound. I’ve realized I must always keep my thoughts and experiences secret if I don’t want them mocked. Somethings are too precious to share. Like we’re often told, don’t cast your pearls before swine.
Well, this is a TOTALLY wild hook up as I like Alanis Morissette's music and of course... Dr. Ramani is able to describe and articulate my 66 years of life having been raised by an NPD parent.
I can't imagjne how many NPD's etc., Alannis has met in her time. Is great to see it being explained for broader audiences. I think it important to shine a bright light of clarity .
Alanis, thank you for your music and for continuing to share your path with us mortals. And BTW, there is NO new Alanis Morissette. There will never be another. You changed everything, and I hope the price wasn’t too high. Love and light
I cannot express how helpful this conversation was for me to witness. I’ve found myself dealing with CPTSD and over the years going through stages of healing that closely resembled histrionic, borderline, and dissociative disorders. No official diagnosis however, all self diagnosed through learning from watching conversations like this one, and reading through research and the DSM which is extremely limited. And all of which has made me a bit of a magnet for narcissists, haha Ive joked that they can smell the weakness on me. All that is to say, I now find myself to be in a much healthier state of mind than I’ve ever been, no longer a magnet because I can spot them a mile away and maintain healthy boundaries! But this conversation was SO validating in understanding how my past disordered thinking and behaviors were overlapping in such a complicated fashion that it’s really hard to put a permanent label on these symptoms. It’s my theory, and personal experience, that people can move through these sorts of disorders and heal from them when there’s a focus on self with intentional healing. And access to information and conversations like these helps immensely. Thank you for your work Dr. Ramani, and Alanis, you helped me through some very difficult teenage years in a profound way, and to my shock again now in my forties. Thank you both so much for sharing this with us. ❤🎉 P.S. I’d absolutely love to see you two collaborate a conversation with The Crappy Childhood Fairy.
CPTSD and finding out what was the root of my life problems was so shocking I almost lost my mind. Some people call it The Dark Night of the Soul...it was devastating to me but getting more emotionally regulated helps a lot even when I have lots of other issues such as shame, grief, inner child work but at least I'm not so lost. Anyway, it's such a long process...
@@Lyrielonwind i can totally relate! In my case, I’ve experienced a dramatic improvement over time and conscious effort to maintain all of the healthy coping skills and radical personal accountability without the shame whenever I slip. I sincerely wish the same for you and everyone who is healing from trauma. 🤗
@@Lyrielonwind Same. I went through a Dark Night of the Soul around when Alanis Morissette came out with "Jagged Little Pill" with my ex-boyfriend at the same time. I thought I healed from that. Then.... wham! My aging parents with whom I was low-contact (not intentionally, but merely because they didn't want to be involved in my life) suddenly had health and mental issues. Dealing with aging narcissists, I've learned why I became a magnet for messed-up boyfriends like my exes. :( And how going thru that Dark Night of the Soul led to a healthier relationship (relatively) with my husband of 22 years. I'm learning that my aging parents were narcissists, and my mother was on the Dark Triad. :( It's a revelation that has caused another Dark Night of the Soul, from which I hope I can pull out of, because I understand now, it is an intergenerational thing, which goes back several generations (maybe more!), and MUST END with me.
Wow! I’m so grateful for my mother, she was the opposite of a narcissist. Being her daughter has always been such an honor. Also that was so intense I’m exhausted. I need to sleep on all this and let it digest! Much thanks for the words and being present for sharing your compassion.
Amen! Dr.Ramani is truly doing GODS work, a gift from God I thank everytime for leading me to Dr.Ramanis you tube in 2022. So much Love for her saving me someone she had never met. There is a special place in heaven for her.
lovely to listen to - thanks for doing it! i grew up with a covert narc mother, and alanis said somewhere something about lacking sense of self. i can relate SO much to that. fortunately for me, my mom's dead since over 20 years, but still, it took me a looong, long time to unlearn and relearn, and to find that sense of self. i do have it now, and i'll never let it go.
Despite the unpleasant topic discussed in the video, the conversation itself is a pure pleasure to follow. And the pleasure comes from Alanis’s genuine interest in the topic which made her well prepared for the discussion. The nowadays social environment in the West culture is screaming in despair to have such honest discussions about multiple topics, for example: the devastating effect the scientism has on the social fabric causing unprecedented scale of social alienation… Anyway. Thank you, Alanis! I love you endlessly my little sister and I send you the warmest possible greetings from Europe!
Half Hungarian girl!....so awesome people are channelling into personality disorders....welcome to the club Alanis! Love you Dr Ramani...book is great.
I am trying to imagine an alternative world in which Dr. Ramani had decided not to take her message online. Thank goodness she didn't just stick to academic research and clinical practice. Shows like this, and others reach many who need the knowledge. Thank you for this in-depth conversation. Helpful and illuminating. Nuanced and kind. ❤
49:49 this one confused me (I wish I knew how to search the comment thread in case this is already been posed!) she mentions anxious avoidant, but then queries if disorganized is a risk factor (I reckon Dr r pivoted to what would be the same answer as they are synonymous)
I just stumbled into here. Alanis on camera for an an hour? She has a channel where this is what she does?? What did I do to deserve such generosity??? I hang on her every word due to her clear genuineness (as opposed to the vast vast vast majority of others I know in the business). So I've jumped on it every time I've seen her interviewed. But ... now this ... whoa !!!
My first piece of music was her cassette tape i bought at a gas station. Threw it in my colby stereo and wow. Now today i listen to the same songs and hear it so differently. I am so joyful to find this convo.
WOW. The co-lab I never knew I always wanted. Alanis's album jagged little pill was my FAV when I was 10, and still fang it to this day. After breaking up with a narc years ago, Not The Doctor realllly hit different.I love Alanis, her music and message has always struck me as wow this woman knows what she talking about. Can say the same for Dr. Ramani. This is a powerhouse. dayum.
I just realized I also unconsciously turn my body whenever I have a conversation with someone I consider dangerous for me, narcissistic, antagonistic, malevolent etc. I think it is a way for the body to protect the solar plexus in physical terms..this is just my interpretation
Cats will only roll over and show you their belly if they fully trust/like you because instinct tells them to protect their vital organs at all costs. ...so your theory makes perfect sense to me.
@indiglowgirl809 From my experience they are easily influenced by demonic entities. And so yes, it’s as though they are truly possessed. Their eyes even change and their expression is one of cruelty.
I wouldn't have recognized her. And it strikes me as odd how she consistently looks up to the ceiling, when talking, the interrupting, talking over, talking w/ hands, etc. Although Dr. Ramani is very knowledgeable on the subject, the similar inabilty to sit still, & "crazy eyes" is distracting. In any case, Alanis' song, "Thank You" actually got me teary-eyed, once I began meditating. Thank you, Alanis.
I always loved Alanis and had a feeling she was very intellectual, this interview was very amazing and profound. I wish I could pick Ramani's brain on some things too, she's so intune with the subject of narcissism.
Wow 🥹 I was raised by a narcissistic stepmother. It was a very lonely struggle as a kid and young adult. To this day, the struggle still continues. It is so comforting to hear this being talked about more and more. Thank you. 🕯️✨
Saying we can't change IS a narcissistic trait. I LOVE how you looked into the camera when you realized just who you were talking to. WE can change & it's this ability that scares them the most because they cannot! Love you girl, I see your shine!
Alanis! I have been a fan of your music for minimum of the last 10 yrs. and beyond. Exactly from your lyric you have always ignited my curiosity regarding all the complexities of narcassism, its nuances and rollercoasters and to learn and gather more info to make better decesions. Dr. Ramni, I have been a student of yours for the last five years and you have been an incredible healing pivotal resource of education in so many ways. So grateful to you for all your work and advocacy of human behavior and what makes ys all tick. I compliment you both for such collaboration sharing your thoughts and the making of this broadcast. You two together mesh and embody eacjh other so beautifully in your conversation> It is absolutely incredible to engage in such informed canidates the flow so well with guidance and enlightenment. Such professional articulation and excellent intelligent effective conveyance of practical and pragmatic views you reveal all of our "Humaness" so amazingly! Kudos and namaste to you both🙂♥✨🙏 THANK YOU! I Survived BDP Post Trauma Dissociate disorders !!
Thank you Alanis for this passionate insightful interview with my favourite therapist Dr Ramani. I want to encourage you to keep these types of conversations going. Our world needs celebs with a passionate curiosity to plunge deep into mental health complexities mixed with relational, social complexities that manifest therefrom. And most of all lets talk about solutions to the complexities. I believe "Attachment Theory" would be a very poignant topic in this regard and even deeper and more expansive in awareness if we also include mental health diagnosises noted in the Dsm5. Bless 🙌 🌱🌳🌺
Oh wow. I *just* discovered her Narcissist song on Spotify, which I had never heard before. And I was like "Ok. This chick has seen and undergone the things no one should ever have to see, face, or come to terms with. This song is 100% accurate, God help us." Then I looked it up on RUclips and found her talking to Dr. Ramani, to whom I have listened many many times and was like "Yep. Morissette knows." Poor dear!! I wish we didn't have to know, amirite??
Love Alanis!!! Jagged Little Pill helped me get thru alot of childhood abuse back when i was 9-13 years old back in 95’ and beyond. Now I realize why I connected so well with her music and felt the passion she expressed everything you spoke in your lyrics! Love Alanis!
Alanis I’m so excited you have brought back your podcast. I love these so much, they have been extremely valuable to me on my journey. I would love if you had Eckhart Tolle on your podcast someday that would be a dream come true for me!
I had Jagged Little Pill when I was 17 in 1999. Alanis, your songs spoke directly to me at that age. I remember singing your songs climbing a river on my own during the most magical summer of my life, 2005, to the cliffs and the birds. Now we're middle-aged we're still into the same subjects. I really appreciate both of you, Alanis and Ramani! Love this conversation ❤
This is a huge synchronicity. I just binged your podcast and woke up to a new episode. Please continue with this series. I feel you have so much to offer in this space
Alanis was my daughter's favorite in junior high school. Anyway, my sister is a vulnerable narcissist I think. We always knew something was very off with her entitlement and other behaviors but never heard about narcissism back in the 70's. She's getting older now at 71 and has many chronic diseases related to her refusal to practice any self discipline in self care. Has a little dementia now and is very vindictive. She even insists that overeating does not cause diabetes, smoking is good for you etc. Love Dr. Has taught me everything I know about this destructive disorder.
17:48 and already I pause this vid to sit in silence in order to truly absorb the amazing conversation & information up to this point. What a gift this is and I already see myself watching it multiple times even though I’m working through it for the very first. THANK YOU ladies for sharing this. I could not be more grateful. 🙏🏻 ❤❤🙏🏻 Deeply grateful.
WHAT? Two of the greatest women, other than my mum and sister, ive had the pleasure of listening to, its actually OUR honour, we are privileged to hear you women. thank you.
Robert Sapolsky and his research on stress is very important to this subject we all know too well. I know a lot about it, as I've lived it my whole life of 53 years. Right out of the gate, youngest of nine.
Alanis. I freakin love you. The only artist I've cared to see or meet in 30 years. I tried suggesting your song Narcissist on Dr Ramanis channel a few years ago. So happy to see you together. I feel like Alanis was my intro to narcissism AND spirituality. And thank God she was there. I also have to say semiunrelated, the most beautiful parts of all your songs to me is the crying out notes and the flute and harmonica solos. They all have their own feeling and each one to me feels like a sometimes painful call to God. And has been a great release for me when I don't have words.
My phone died. I’m actually feeling tired. I was so excited to see Alanis but maybe watch the rest when I feel rested up. I didn’t ghost anyone:). I’m actually recovering from the awakening and feel confident in life- It looks like it will take momentum before I am back to the crazy energetic self I had. All my best regards.
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Thank you Dr. R. This August 2024 will be two years zero contact. It took about two years for me to be 100% sure that I was doing the right thing because I knew that zero contact with my mom would alienate me from a lot of my family. Or at least make things quite uncomfortable in a family where we were all raised to put a smile on our face. In addition, over the past 4-5 years I’ve had to end some friendships because I’m a rockstar when it comes to codependency, people pleasing, forgiveness… I love to compliment people and build them up. At one point during my healing journey, I began to wonder if I was actually creating narcissists. Lol! Thank you both!🙏🏼💕
I’m so happy to see you this morning, I’m always excited to listen to you and your amazing guests breakdown topics of interest!! You are my hero I hope to have the honor of shaking your hand and thanking you in person before I die !! ~blessings
Thank you! So much! Watching a second time… so much shared. Learning about this is a game changer and loved Dr. Ramani’s comment right at the end about showing ourselves compassion and grace… amazing and so validating. 💫
[You really think she is more insightful than Prof. Sam Venkin? I consider her manipulative and shallow. Ever seen any of the videos by sam venkin and/or the ones about ramani being a fragile narcissist? Be careful if you've experienced abuse like this you're highly susceptible to being fooled by people like ramani. ]
@@gethelp6271 Dr. Ramani is a loving, caring person. I believe that, I know that and I am holding my decision on that. Go try to influence someone else. Its not working on me.
@@sunnievictoria9917 Dr. Ramani is a wise, keen, educated individual on narcissism. My opinion, perception, whatever you want to call it, is not changing. Go try to influence someone else. It’s not working on me. I take care of myself and what decisions I make about anything in my life, not you. Thank you.
I just saw you in New Jersey. It was amazing. Your energy was unbelievable. You have a special place to me not just for your music but for being the first person who openly spoke of love addiction in the public which was so courageous. And led me to meetings for myself. And changed my life.
I'm a 48 year old man. Jagged Little Pill came out when I was 20 in university and the cool kids listened to it. By the time I was working in London at 25, Under Rug Swept came out. It took me years to realise it was about gaslighting. For some reason this song comes into my head about once a week. I think my dad acts like the character in the song. 'If it wasn't for me you wouldn't have been successful'. Im a student of literature. From a composition standpoint its so clever the way Alanis speaks the words of the manipulator from the past, then answers the manipulator in the present.
I'm 51-years-old, and I've noticed that people my age are starting to deal with aging parents, and realizing that having to go back to take care of them, I'm finding out why I left. Manipulation. I didn't have a name for it, but now I do, and so many things in my childhood make sense now. My parents were narcissists, constantly trying to uphold their "false self." And now in their old age, they are STILL holding onto their false self. My father had three car accidents before he finally stopped driving. :( The aging narcissist will NOT accept that they are anything less than the delusion they have of themselves in their heads. It's dangerous. My mother-in-law was not like this. She stopped driving on her own, after an accident that wasn't even her fault. My dad only finally stopped driving when my uncle flattered him that he was wanting to buy a RAV4 for a long time. The narcissistic supply from my uncle's flattery was what convinced my dad to sell his car. So totally different from my empathic mother-in-law who realized she wasn't having as good reaction times as she used to have. She had no delusions.
I am such a fan of both of you Dr.Ramani you have helped me so very much! Alanis, TY for this incredible collaboration of such an important topic! I truly am grateful for this conversation between the 2 of you as it was so informative and has so much gravity that resonates within me. Keep up the good work of self love and healing Alanis as I am inspired by your transparency and spirit! Dr. Ramani, words cannot express how very much you have helped me, especially last year. You are a gift from above for so many! Sending 🤍 to you both! ~ Love~Levity~& Light🕊️🕊️🕊️~Amy~
Accountability is strength of character and narcissistic people do not understand this. It ignites shame and guilt within them and instead of dealing with problems head on they run from them and deflect. This is where i had to draw the line because you will spend your life in a lopsided relationship.
I used to drive up to Port Angeles WA. in 96' delivering paint and listened to her CD there and back. What wonderful memories. Interesting I was definitely in the throws of these dynamics but had no clue then. How interesting!!! Time and space.
At 40:00 ❗️Dr. R. makes a very important point of insight everyone would do well to pay attention to. And that is, (1) Who is vulnerable to getting "pulled in " by the charms and manipulation? Anybody. Anyone in any class or socio-economic level can be attracted and interested to some degree. But then... there is the question (2) Who are the people that GET STUCK there in that mess of a relationship / tangled chaos? Thank you for discussing that important difference and how we can educate ourselves and develop a strong defense against that ploy, trick, trap.
Thank you for having and airing this conversation. It's so hard to live with one with many of these traits for a long period of time. I'm trying to get away from one but it's very difficult.
Alanis! What a great interview! Thank you. I've been following Dr. Ramani for a while now, but never latched on the the words that you spoke "lack of curiosity". I was not versed and unaware of narcissism during my 30 year marriage to one, however became stunned during 9-11 at his lack of empathy. 'Lack of curiosity' will now be my second bell weather. Thank God he left me after 30 years when I think he realized I had his 'number'. After that I realized my father was also a narcissist and that I was pre-conditioned.
Grateful to hear the two of you luminaries share in detail these mental health issues we are ALL affected by. I have been following Dr Ramani on RUclips for a while- Thank you both for shedding light on these complex human behaviors. More, please.
Thank you 🙏 I just want to love those in my life that can't do empathy. They need it more than most. Except now I know it comes at a cost that is to heavy to pay. I always disappear into them. I'm not invisible & I need empathy too. Alanis & Dr R two strong women from two stages of my life decades apart, but have become individuals I seek when I need clarity. Thank you. ❤️
I was 12 when Jagged Little Pill came out. Classic through and through. I was 37 when I discovered Dr. Ramani. Thank you both. What a gift.
I still have it on original CD. Although I have also converted it into flac format so I can listen to it on devices that no longer have CD players.
@@ISquishWorms Wow! Here, "very special person" award
Same!
@@elizabethd6433 Nice!
I couldn't handle the original JLP because I was too traumatized for the rage of betrayal to be heard as helpful... The acoustic version of JLP is, along with Time Out of Mind (Dylan 2003) helped me heal. I'm very grateful❤
Dr. Ramani and Alanis? I never saw this collab coming: I'm a big fan of both of them.
Same! 🤯
@@danvorosmarty9854 lol same same✌🏼💜
Right!
Refreshing!
I thought *exactly* the same thing!
Narcissistic parents completely shape the trajectory of a childs upbringing.
Trust, love, empathy, mercy are all conditional qualities and a means to an end.
It takes a lifetime to observe, accept, unlearn and relearn. It also has meant walking away from all of the family I have ever known.
Thank you for the conversation!
An oldster now, but it is so wild... I feel empathy, but was taught by the NPD parent it is wrong. It wasn't until I was a young adult and studying psychology on a graduate level (how typical!) I even began to get a clue into that dynamic.
@@nsbd90now Amazing to me how we become programed. Its as if empathy was poison. Trust was my programing.
Dont trust anyone.
@@wesleyduckett1982 We're in trouble Wesley. Big, big, big, big trouble. I would totally bet the USA goes fascist later this year.
I hear that.
You are not alone 😔
Such a good quote from Dr Ramani "The narcissistic structure is based on a delusional sense of perfection" and this is why they can't take any responsibility and can't accept feedback of any potential negativity.
It is a life of walking on eggshells not to 'set off' the narcissist who--in return--debases and put downs others with no regard due to a lack of correct levels of empathy.
It's truly a nightmare disorder
This sounds exactly like OCPD, as well. Perhaps, NPD is often comorbid with OCPD?
So well described. It is a life of walking on eggshells. With very little or zero empathy given in return.
Narcissist One, 2&3 in my family of Origin, " how DARE you react! you INGRATE"!!!
ALL participants of building; maintaining & living within a "civilized" / constructed environment ARE "narcissistic" to ALL other life and the ecosystem that produces it.
The narcissistic structure of delusional perfection can also be described as fantasy ego-identity, with which they identify. If you damage their fantasy with reality, they feel you have attacked them.
Alanis is so humble even as famous and talented she is, she’s so relatable and kind.
Heh... I've always liked her music, but didn't know her as a regular person dealing with these types of influences and so aware of Dr. Ramani who I'm definitely aware of.
From this conversation, it's clear Alanis has put the HOURS in becoming so empathetic and self aware. 🙏🏽 Talented artist; but also creative human being.
Alanis is a very awesome person, the best therapist I never had.@@krs227
Absolutely
It's because she's Canadian 🇨🇦
Thank you. Both of you.
As a man who experienced 20 years of marriage unknowingly to a (after the fact) clinically diagnosed person with FULL spectrum Cluster B disorder and so much more… thank you for having this discussion and producing the content for awareness.
The abuse and destruction these people cause should be a criminal offense.
It is a battle of the soul; armor up!
Healing and rebuilding in isolation and on my own.
Stay alert! Stay alive! Stay strong! Peace ✌️
I think emotional abuse is a criminal offence now. It's counted as domestic violence, in the UK anyway, and maybe other places as well.
@@jasminebarratt1809 not in the United States. Everything goes to women
@@cajuncrackerranch7990 Well I hope they update the laws in the US as well. Obviously it would apply to both sexes. The law in the UK came into effect in 2015, which was too late for me. I already had severe ptsd and brain damage from stress by then, but I was glad of the validation. It should absolutely be taken as seriously as physical abuse, the stress of these situations can make people ill, which is a form of physical abuse in my opinion.
@@jasminebarratt1809I have heard about that in England. I didn't know much about NPD till I lived with one,a old high school sweetie from 46 years ago, I let back in my life she was down and out no fault of her own,I told her no relationship before she came to my home,well she roped me in and it was the worst experience I've ever been through. What is really sad she is the only woman I truly loved. I won't even speak to her for what she put me through. She seems to forget how she treated me.
Spiritual warfare.. stay grounded, stay connected ♡
Great to have this podcast back. My father was a narcissus. I've only just been diagnosed with autism at age 53. When I was young my father would call me partially retarded and encouraged my older sisters to call me that too. I could never understand why he was cruel, why he dominated to the point I was scared of him. Today I have no friends, I fear people. I surround myself with my horses and cats. Animals I trust, people I don't.
You're not alone. Animals are lovely. Simple. Pure.
Humans are too complicated today.
It sounds like you're ok
I wish you the best. So hard what you had to endure. I am so sorry for that
Me too ❤
Animals don’t intimidate
What a horrible father. 💔 I'm glad your animals are looking after you ♡
Alanis’s smile can light up a room. 😊
And Dr. Ramani’s! Two lovely ladies. 🙂
How is it that the brilliant Alanis Morissette never ages??? And, Dr. Ramani, for that matter! I want what they're having! Both precious gems!
Botox
I love what Dr. Ramani said about teaching children empathy is a parent's highest calling because I raised two very empathetic boys, but this made life for them with a father who was diagnosed ASPD/NPD very difficult, and by society's yard stick I failed as a mother with my eldest son taking over my scapegoat role and his brother being the invisible child both had pronounced and diagnosed cases of CPTSD. One is working hard on healing at 26, but his older brother died of an accidental overdose a few years ago. As a mother, it was terrifying and heartbreaking to see what was happening to my children and not be able to protect them. It was also a highly narcissistic family so the only place they learned empathy was when they were with me, but ultimately I thought this set them up to be hurt even worse by their disordered family, especially their dad.
I think they would have been hurt anyway and I don't think that showing them empathy added to it because you need empathy for yourself too in order to heal.
I'm sorry for your loss but don't carry the blame that belongs to their narcissistic father; it was his doing and taking the blame of someone else's actions is not healthy for you and it takes the blame off him.
I understand the guilt of not being able to rescue someone, I have lived it and I was shocked especially with my youngest sister, whom I have protected my whole life, when I realized she was a narcissist and a very vulnerable, covert one after five decades. Feeling guilty for not being able to undo what my mother did (how she influenced her so badly) is delusional on my side because I'm not God and I don't have superpowers. Of course, there's lots of grief but I hope you understand what I am saying and stop blaming yourself for the wrongdoings of their father. God bless you 💓
Thank you for this comment and share. I am 45 and trying to heal from lifetime of abuse and trauma, a lot of it in advert but stuff just came to ahead with a borderline/NPD partner who I now coparent with. Really important to me to be teaching her empathy and integrity, that there is right and wrong and hurting people is not OK, doing it intentionally and taking pleasure from it is complete shit and as long as there’s breath in my body, she will not go in that direction.
I am sorry 😞. My situation is similar. Divorced and my youngest is really going through it. Realizing all this and he was ne er seen by his father. Life is very difficult for him. Plus trauma and ptsd due to injury. I am so sorry about your oldest son.
Agreed 💔so tragic watching the light in a child's eyes be extinguished by the individual who shared in the creation of that priceless Miracle😥
@@cindyjohnson7883 precisely. Unfortunately, I've witnessed it. 💔💔💔
7:55
"Living in a perpetual adolescence." - Exactly. Well said. And a great time for an Alanis Morissette album.
The singer of my 20s and the dr who helped me understand what was going on.... unbelievable ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you for letting me sit in. I felt a sense of 'library safe space' here. Refreshing. Alanis Rocks!
Oh my goodness, kids. When my son was in grade/middle school, and he was and is very intelligent, I would tell him that I cared much less about grades than if he was KIND to others. He is autistic, and was high enough functioning as to be able to somewhat mask this and get through high school but hated it. I am proud to say that he is still very thoughtful and kind. He struggles so much on other levels, but his attitude to life and others is healthy.
Good job Mom!
These two are very different. This comment has nothing to do with cluster b personality
@@SpiritualTarotGoddessautism behaviours can be seen and misjudged as narcissistic
I've already watched Dr. Ramani's videos when I went through a traumatic breakup from a person with NPD. Now seeing my favorite artist having a conversation with her is the cherry on top. Please continue this. Alanis, you are so well articulated and the curious questions you were putting forth were so intriguing to listen to and watch.
I think Alanis is probably the smartest interviewer Dr Ramani ever had. What an insightful interviewer she is!!
Personally I found it very distracting when she continually spoke over the doctor.
@@turnerturner3281that’s what im saying…barely heard dr ramani say anything
Two very intelligent humans.
HIGHLY !
I’ve been having a hard time leaving a narcissistic relationship and everything you said about this person rings so true about them. They are always playing the victim never taking accountability, feeling like they are better than most people , most people are stupid , but also feeling like he was a POS and unworthy. He would never ask me questions about myself, never wanted to define the relationship. I also felt so uneasy in his presence in a way I’ve never known before. It should have been easy to walk away from this but it wasn’t. One thing it did do was highlight my own shadows and I’ve learned to set better boundaries.
Yesterday I was in the store and You Learn came on and had me in tears and then today this video popped up it definitely was divine guidance.
Glad you stumbled upon this knowledge I was in a 15 year narcissistic relationship, which I had to escape. It’s not easy but necessary for you to live your best life.🙏💙
I agree, that there is an uneasiness with people who lack empathy, when you realize they have none. :( It's called "The Uncanny Valley." They are like human, but not-like-human. The same feeling people get with humanoid robots.
That sounds like my covert narc husband of MANY years.. at least you’ve gained a lot of insight.. it’s hard because so many of us have this codependent personality..
( and yes, never asks me how I feel about things or really any personal things about me ever. He had all the lead acting roles in H.S… and lacks empathy.. I wish I’d known about covert narcissism years ago.
Dad died suddenly a month after I turned five. Mom tried to turn me into him. At 72, I'm multi-degreed, published, married & widowed, and still suffering from Mom..
Well look at you achieving in spite of mom. People who say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those who are doing it. Way to go! Keep getting it done! 👍🏾
Two of my favorite people in the whole world ❤❤❤
I had no idea that Alanis was doing interviews or that she was so freaking brilliant! I liked her music in the 90s, I was a teenager and she was super big on the radio. But I don’t really follow Hollywood or watch TV or anything else, so, personal lives had no idea until Johnny Depp almost lose his career and potentially his life to that psycho/BPD Amber heard.. Really cool to see more and more people having these conversations. And Alanis is freaking bad ass.
She is so awesome you're correct,after I ended a relationship with a women with NPD and alot of trauma that caused her CPTSD plus she has TBI.my Dr put me on Valium my Dr knows her so she knew what I was going through. Anyway I started listening to Alanis interviews and I was just in awe how smart she is.I just adore her and Dr.Ramini.
Wow. Dear Dog...did this beautiful talented and wise Alanis Morisette just say that she identified with many traits of (Quiet BPD)?? I have even more respect for her now, for standing above the stigma that most attach to the DSM 'labels.'
Alanis - Thank you so much for this interview. My wife felt so alone dealing with her family. I've seldom heard anyone approach narcissism with consciousness like you do. I wrote a book in 2009 called - "Get off your high horse and walk". I listed you as one of my heroes. It's so nice to feel that we are not alone, and I also feel that consciousness may be on the rise, and that is why there is so much awareness about narcissism. Things that were once hidden in the framework is now brought to light.❤❤❤
I like the idea that consciousness may be on the rise. It’s hard to see on the surface but the currents are deep and powerful.
It totally is❤❤❤
I like that title..
How is it possible that I dreamed this conversation just one month ago?
I had a sudden strong desire to listen to Jagged Little Pill for days, and while I was doing so in a very mindful way, I just wished she could have a conversation with Dr Ramani. This is beyond amazing.
Thank you both and everyone making this happen ❤
Ms. Moristte has been a constant, and stable presence throughout my life.
Thank you so much for this interview Alanis. I was stuck in such a toxic relationship with a narcissist for 7 years and I would have never guessed that I would fall for that type nonsense. But he was charming and sucked me in. He was a master mimicker for what people want to hear. I went through unspeakable abuse both psychologically and sexually and it ended me in the hospital dying and coming back to life. I've been on the soul journey since 2012. It was truly through this suffering that I had my spiritual Awakening. I could tell by the lyrics of your song "Thank You" that you had a transformation as well. Much love ❤
Thanks for a unique interview. I have been following Dr Ramani for years (I'm a clinical psychologist) and watch her interviews but notice people keep asking her very basic questions about narcissism. Thanks for having a bigger discussion about other PDs, particularly BPD and complex trauma as that's an area I work in a lot.
Two people I love have come together!
What a gift 🎁💖 Two empathetic, introspective souls talking about the complexities of mental health with so much wisdom and compassion. Thank you 🙏🏻
I just LOVE you Alanis!!! Thank you for sharing your gifts and wisdom with us❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
You should do a conversation with Joan Jett, since you're going to be with her on tour soon. Leading up to that, how about do a conversation with her? She's super spiritual, and it would be very interesting for fans.
I am so delighted hearing this conversation with her and Dr. Ramani. I don’t really follow Hollywood stuff, though I always loved Alanis music back in the day. Cool to see her having these awesome and brilliant conversations… Makes sense that she is smart, but I had no idea what a great solid human she actually is!
Painful when she mentions about someone stealing money from you because she actually lived that. 😢😢 Very necessary conversation. Alanis is gifted in so many ways. A huge addition to this world !!!!
How am I just now stumbling across this mash-up with Dr. Ramani? This made me smile. Thank you!
Wow. I didn't expect to see a video with Dr. Ramani and Alanis together. Then again... I'm not suprised.
Im a psychologist and my husband got involved in his company with the poster boy for cluster B personality disorders - indeed - a person who I consider to be a 'dark triad' . Sadly, this person managed to take over my husbands company and 'coming for us' legally / financially for several years. To understand the modus operandi and how destructive this person is has saved us from going quite mad. Listening often to Dr Ramani on the regular has been like getting coaching. We have needed that reinforcement that the person we are dealing with is never going to suddenly realise their behaviour is destructive and abnormal has helped us in our attempts to remain sane and survive. I feel like a I can better help those who have experienced orchestrated narcissistic attack - although its pretty draining to have to go through it for myself. I wonder If I will personally ever get to a place when I can talk about it without feeling like I have been run over by a truck.
I feel the same way. Unfortunately, when I look back in retrospect, there's no good way to avoid these people. They are everywhere. Parents, siblings, "friends," spouses, kids, co-workers, caregivers....... from cradle to grave. They're everywhere.
Alanis has an incredibly organized mind. she packed 6, 7 , 8 , 9 talks into a single talk, she got it all in. Amazing.
Uma Thurmann's artwork now, is as important to me as Kimberly Shannon Murphy. I'm not into using competition as a leg up
but I'm also not into the appearance of team work, for sake of control.
Dr Ramani changed my life, I was in a shit marriage to a grandiose narcissist and I took her advice and got my ducks in a row I stood my ground and I am so happy
What a treat! The Artist who penned the lyrics that helped me even to understand narcissism was a thing many moons ago (I'm 48) having a conversation with the person whose videos I have found very valuable in helping me to understand toxic humans and how to protect myself from them. I love this, thank you.
So similar here. 45, and have a child with a high functioning Cluster B
I have never heard of Alanis. I will google her since everyone seems to love her music.
Brilliant insights from both! My narc is very self satisfied and certain of his spiritual superiority and can hold forth for quite a long time about his ‘adventures’ in this realm while keeping a group spellbound. I’ve realized I must always keep my thoughts and experiences secret if I don’t want them mocked. Somethings are too precious to share. Like we’re often told, don’t cast your pearls before swine.
Well, this is a TOTALLY wild hook up as I like Alanis Morissette's music and of course... Dr. Ramani is able to describe and articulate my 66 years of life having been raised by an NPD parent.
I can't imagjne how many NPD's etc., Alannis has met in her time.
Is great to see it being explained for broader audiences.
I think it important to shine a bright light of clarity .
Alanis, thank you for your music and for continuing to share your path with us mortals. And BTW, there is NO new Alanis Morissette. There will never be another. You changed everything, and I hope the price wasn’t too high. Love and light
I cannot express how helpful this conversation was for me to witness. I’ve found myself dealing with CPTSD and over the years going through stages of healing that closely resembled histrionic, borderline, and dissociative disorders. No official diagnosis however, all self diagnosed through learning from watching conversations like this one, and reading through research and the DSM which is extremely limited. And all of which has made me a bit of a magnet for narcissists, haha Ive joked that they can smell the weakness on me. All that is to say, I now find myself to be in a much healthier state of mind than I’ve ever been, no longer a magnet because I can spot them a mile away and maintain healthy boundaries! But this conversation was SO validating in understanding how my past disordered thinking and behaviors were overlapping in such a complicated fashion that it’s really hard to put a permanent label on these symptoms. It’s my theory, and personal experience, that people can move through these sorts of disorders and heal from them when there’s a focus on self with intentional healing. And access to information and conversations like these helps immensely. Thank you for your work Dr. Ramani, and Alanis, you helped me through some very difficult teenage years in a profound way, and to my shock again now in my forties. Thank you both so much for sharing this with us. ❤🎉
P.S. I’d absolutely love to see you two collaborate a conversation with The Crappy Childhood Fairy.
CPTSD and finding out what was the root of my life problems was so shocking I almost lost my mind. Some people call it The Dark Night of the Soul...it was devastating to me but getting more emotionally regulated helps a lot even when I have lots of other issues such as shame, grief, inner child work but at least I'm not so lost.
Anyway, it's such a long process...
@@Lyrielonwind i can totally relate! In my case, I’ve experienced a dramatic improvement over time and conscious effort to maintain all of the healthy coping skills and radical personal accountability without the shame whenever I slip. I sincerely wish the same for you and everyone who is healing from trauma. 🤗
@@Lyrielonwind Same. I went through a Dark Night of the Soul around when Alanis Morissette came out with "Jagged Little Pill" with my ex-boyfriend at the same time. I thought I healed from that. Then.... wham! My aging parents with whom I was low-contact (not intentionally, but merely because they didn't want to be involved in my life) suddenly had health and mental issues. Dealing with aging narcissists, I've learned why I became a magnet for messed-up boyfriends like my exes. :( And how going thru that Dark Night of the Soul led to a healthier relationship (relatively) with my husband of 22 years. I'm learning that my aging parents were narcissists, and my mother was on the Dark Triad. :( It's a revelation that has caused another Dark Night of the Soul, from which I hope I can pull out of, because I understand now, it is an intergenerational thing, which goes back several generations (maybe more!), and MUST END with me.
@cece9770 love this comment! ❤🎉
Wow! I’m so grateful for my mother, she was the opposite of a narcissist. Being her daughter has always been such an honor. Also that was so intense I’m exhausted.
I need to sleep on all this and let it digest! Much thanks for the words and being present for sharing your compassion.
Awe, that's truly wonderful. You are so blessed.
Amen! Dr.Ramani is truly doing GODS work, a gift from God I thank everytime for leading me to Dr.Ramanis you tube in 2022. So much Love for her saving me someone she had never met. There is a special place in heaven for her.
lovely to listen to - thanks for doing it!
i grew up with a covert narc mother, and alanis said somewhere something about lacking sense of self. i can relate SO much to that. fortunately for me, my mom's dead since over 20 years, but still, it took me a looong, long time to unlearn and relearn, and to find that sense of self. i do have it now, and i'll never let it go.
Alanis is such a beautiful person and so is Dr. Ramani. So glad we have awareness of this condition.
OMG! I’m so happy to find this video. Alanis is one of the awakened ones!! Yay!!! Another reason to be a fan! Isn’t it ironic? 😅
I am listening to this now and am stunned Dr. Ramani and Ms. Alanis are in a video about this stuff together. What a connection!
Despite the unpleasant topic discussed in the video, the conversation itself is a pure pleasure to follow. And the pleasure comes from Alanis’s genuine interest in the topic which made her well prepared for the discussion. The nowadays social environment in the West culture is screaming in despair to have such honest discussions about multiple topics, for example: the devastating effect the scientism has on the social fabric causing unprecedented scale of social alienation… Anyway. Thank you, Alanis! I love you endlessly my little sister and I send you the warmest possible greetings from Europe!
Alanis- you are amazing. Godsend. Gratitude. Thank you Dr. Ramani as well!
Half Hungarian girl!....so awesome people are channelling into personality disorders....welcome to the club Alanis! Love you Dr Ramani...book is great.
I am trying to imagine an alternative world in which Dr. Ramani had decided not to take her message online. Thank goodness she didn't just stick to academic research and clinical practice. Shows like this, and others reach many who need the knowledge. Thank you for this in-depth conversation. Helpful and illuminating. Nuanced and kind. ❤
Ki csoda (a fel Magyar lany)?
49:49 this one confused me (I wish I knew how to search the comment thread in case this is already been posed!) she mentions anxious avoidant, but then queries if disorganized is a risk factor (I reckon Dr r pivoted to what would be the same answer as they are synonymous)
@@SPSHSP Alanis fél magyar…
I just stumbled into here. Alanis on camera for an an hour? She has a channel where this is what she does?? What did I do to deserve such generosity???
I hang on her every word due to her clear genuineness (as opposed to the vast vast vast majority of others I know in the business). So I've jumped on it every time I've seen her interviewed. But ... now this ... whoa !!!
My first piece of music was her cassette tape i bought at a gas station. Threw it in my colby stereo and wow. Now today i listen to the same songs and hear it so differently. I am so joyful to find this convo.
Whaaat! This is amazing! 💚 Dr Ramani is one of the most amazing people on this planet.
Yes she is.
WOW. The co-lab I never knew I always wanted. Alanis's album jagged little pill was my FAV when I was 10, and still fang it to this day. After breaking up with a narc years ago, Not The Doctor realllly hit different.I love Alanis, her music and message has always struck me as wow this woman knows what she talking about. Can say the same for Dr. Ramani. This is a powerhouse. dayum.
I just realized I also unconsciously turn my body whenever I have a conversation with someone I consider dangerous for me, narcissistic, antagonistic, malevolent etc. I think it is a way for the body to protect the solar plexus in physical terms..this is just my interpretation
Cats will only roll over and show you their belly if they fully trust/like you because instinct tells them to protect their vital organs at all costs. ...so your theory makes perfect sense to me.
Could be the holy spirit guiding you 😊
Two of my favourite women in this World ❤❤❤❤ What a gift you both are. Love you!
I have often wondered if narcissism is a degree of demonic possession in extreme cases...great conversation thank you, so much love to you both❤
@indiglowgirl809 From my experience they are easily influenced by demonic entities. And so yes, it’s as though they are truly possessed. Their eyes even change and their expression is one of cruelty.
still looking as gorgeous as you did in 1996,when i saw you first, Alanis...your music,voice and calming reassurance is as beguiling as ever.
Lisa Simson Karl Rudolf simrock
What a charmer. Run Alanis!
@@phaedrus7971 lol nope just a fan
Just another SIMP's son......
I wouldn't have recognized her. And it strikes me as odd how she consistently looks up to the ceiling, when talking, the interrupting, talking over, talking w/ hands, etc. Although Dr. Ramani is very knowledgeable on the subject, the similar inabilty to sit still, & "crazy eyes" is distracting. In any case, Alanis' song, "Thank You" actually got me teary-eyed, once I began meditating. Thank you, Alanis.
I always loved Alanis and had a feeling she was very intellectual, this interview was very amazing and profound. I wish I could pick Ramani's brain on some things too, she's so intune with the subject of narcissism.
Wow 🥹
I was raised by a narcissistic stepmother. It was a very lonely struggle as a kid and young adult. To this day, the struggle still continues.
It is so comforting to hear this being talked about more and more.
Thank you. 🕯️✨
Same here, my step mother was terrible
@@mercedesvallar3384 You have my sympathy. At times it can feel like being lost at sea without a friend. 🕯️
Intellectual intercourse! Thank you for this engaging discussion, Dr. Ramani Durvasala and Alanis! 💞
Saying we can't change IS a narcissistic trait. I LOVE how you looked into the camera when you realized just who you were talking to. WE can change & it's this ability that scares them the most because they cannot! Love you girl, I see your shine!
Alanis! I have been a fan of your music for minimum of the last 10 yrs. and beyond. Exactly from your lyric you have always ignited my curiosity regarding all the complexities of narcassism, its nuances and rollercoasters and to learn and gather more info to make better decesions. Dr. Ramni, I have been a student of yours for the last five years and you have been an incredible healing pivotal resource of education in so many ways. So grateful to you for all your work and advocacy of human behavior and what makes ys all tick. I compliment you both for such collaboration sharing your thoughts and the making of this broadcast. You two together mesh and embody eacjh other so beautifully in your conversation> It is absolutely incredible to engage in such informed canidates the flow so well with guidance and enlightenment. Such professional articulation and excellent intelligent effective conveyance of practical and pragmatic views you reveal all of our "Humaness" so amazingly! Kudos and namaste to you both🙂♥✨🙏 THANK YOU! I Survived BDP Post Trauma Dissociate disorders !!
Wow wow wow. One of the most healing conversations I’ve heard in a long time. ❤❤ Thank youuuu both
Thank you Alanis for this passionate insightful interview with my favourite therapist Dr Ramani. I want to encourage you to keep these types of conversations going. Our world needs celebs with a passionate curiosity to plunge deep into mental health complexities mixed with relational, social complexities that manifest therefrom. And most of all lets talk about solutions to the complexities. I believe "Attachment Theory" would be a very poignant topic in this regard and even deeper and more expansive in awareness if we also include mental health diagnosises noted in the Dsm5. Bless 🙌 🌱🌳🌺
Oh wow. I *just* discovered her Narcissist song on Spotify, which I had never heard before. And I was like "Ok. This chick has seen and undergone the things no one should ever have to see, face, or come to terms with. This song is 100% accurate, God help us." Then I looked it up on RUclips and found her talking to Dr. Ramani, to whom I have listened many many times and was like "Yep. Morissette knows." Poor dear!! I wish we didn't have to know, amirite??
Love Alanis!!! Jagged Little Pill helped me get thru alot of childhood abuse back when i was 9-13 years old back in 95’ and beyond. Now I realize why I connected so well with her music and felt the passion she expressed everything you spoke in your lyrics! Love Alanis!
Alanis I’m so excited you have brought back your podcast. I love these so much, they have been extremely valuable to me on my journey. I would love if you had Eckhart Tolle on your podcast someday that would be a dream come true for me!
Yes Eckhart says it all
I had Jagged Little Pill when I was 17 in 1999. Alanis, your songs spoke directly to me at that age. I remember singing your songs climbing a river on my own during the most magical summer of my life, 2005, to the cliffs and the birds. Now we're middle-aged we're still into the same subjects. I really appreciate both of you, Alanis and Ramani! Love this conversation ❤
This is a huge synchronicity. I just binged your podcast and woke up to a new episode. Please continue with this series. I feel you have so much to offer in this space
Alanis was my daughter's favorite in junior high school. Anyway, my sister is a vulnerable narcissist I think. We always knew something was very off with her entitlement and other behaviors but never heard about narcissism back in the 70's. She's getting older now at 71 and has many chronic diseases related to her refusal to practice any self discipline in self care. Has a little dementia now and is very vindictive. She even insists that overeating does not cause diabetes, smoking is good for you etc. Love Dr. Has taught me everything I know about this destructive disorder.
What a great conversation! I love you both. Alanis, thank you for your new album, “the storm before the calm”. Perfectly needed.
Two of my favourite people discussing such an important topic that affects all of us. Love it so much. xx
17:48 and already I pause this vid to sit in silence in order to truly absorb the amazing conversation & information up to this point. What a gift this is and I already see myself watching it multiple times even though I’m working through it for the very first. THANK YOU ladies for sharing this. I could not be more grateful. 🙏🏻 ❤❤🙏🏻 Deeply grateful.
My sentiments exactly - sitting in silence on several replays.
WHAT? Two of the greatest women, other than my mum and sister, ive had the pleasure of listening to, its actually OUR honour, we are privileged to hear you women. thank you.
Robert Sapolsky and his research on stress is very important to this subject we all know too well. I know a lot about it, as I've lived it my whole life of 53 years. Right out of the gate, youngest of nine.
Yes!
Sooooooooooo glad to have you back!!!!! Thank you for all of your wisdom, and compassion 💖💖💖💖💖🙌you truly inspire the greatest healing ❤️🩹
Alanis. I freakin love you. The only artist I've cared to see or meet in 30 years. I tried suggesting your song Narcissist on Dr Ramanis channel a few years ago. So happy to see you together. I feel like Alanis was my intro to narcissism AND spirituality. And thank God she was there. I also have to say semiunrelated, the most beautiful parts of all your songs to me is the crying out notes and the flute and harmonica solos. They all have their own feeling and each one to me feels like a sometimes painful call to God. And has been a great release for me when I don't have words.
My phone died. I’m actually feeling tired. I was so excited to see Alanis but maybe watch the rest when I feel rested up.
I didn’t ghost anyone:).
I’m actually recovering from the awakening and feel confident in life- It looks like it will take momentum before I am back to the crazy energetic self I had.
All my best regards.
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Thank you Dr. R.
This August 2024 will be two years zero contact. It took about two years for me to be 100% sure that I was doing the right thing because I knew that zero contact with my mom would alienate me from a lot of my family. Or at least make things quite uncomfortable in a family where we were all raised to put a smile on our face.
In addition, over the past 4-5 years I’ve had to end some friendships because I’m a rockstar when it comes to codependency, people pleasing, forgiveness… I love to compliment people and build them up. At one point during my healing journey, I began to wonder if I was actually creating narcissists. Lol!
Thank you both!🙏🏼💕
I’m so happy to see you this morning, I’m always excited to listen to you and your amazing guests breakdown topics of interest!! You are my hero I hope to have the honor of shaking your hand and thanking you in person before I die !! ~blessings
Thank you! So much! Watching a second time… so much shared. Learning about this is a game changer and loved Dr. Ramani’s comment right at the end about showing ourselves compassion and grace… amazing and so validating. 💫
Alanis! Ive been a fan since Jagged Little Pill! So awesome you have Dr.Ramani on, this is an important topic!
Two of my favorite powerful women on the planet having a conversation about such an important topic! 🎉🎉❤❤
Dr. Ramani has THE most keen knowledge of narcissism.
[You really think she is more insightful than Prof. Sam Venkin? I consider her manipulative and shallow. Ever seen any of the videos by sam venkin and/or the ones about ramani being a fragile narcissist? Be careful if you've experienced abuse like this you're highly susceptible to being fooled by people like ramani. ]
because she IS A NARCISSIST
@@gethelp6271 Dr. Ramani is a loving, caring person. I believe that, I know that and I am holding my decision on that. Go try to influence someone else. Its not working on me.
@@sunnievictoria9917 Dr. Ramani is a wise, keen, educated individual on narcissism. My opinion, perception, whatever you want to call it, is not changing. Go try to influence someone else. It’s not working on me. I take care of myself and what decisions I make about anything in my life, not you. Thank you.
I just saw you in New Jersey. It was amazing. Your energy was unbelievable. You have a special place to me not just for your music but for being the first person who openly spoke of love addiction in the public which was so courageous. And led me to meetings for myself. And changed my life.
Alanis is definitely categorizing the people she's had to deal with :) I would too!
Thank you from Australia 🇦🇺. Alanis and Dr Ramani are two amazing, beautiful women who are both generous with educating us. ❤
I'm a 48 year old man. Jagged Little Pill came out when I was 20 in university and the cool kids listened to it. By the time I was working in London at 25, Under Rug Swept came out. It took me years to realise it was about gaslighting. For some reason this song comes into my head about once a week. I think my dad acts like the character in the song. 'If it wasn't for me you wouldn't have been successful'. Im a student of literature. From a composition standpoint its so clever the way Alanis speaks the words of the manipulator from the past, then answers the manipulator in the present.
I'm 51-years-old, and I've noticed that people my age are starting to deal with aging parents, and realizing that having to go back to take care of them, I'm finding out why I left. Manipulation. I didn't have a name for it, but now I do, and so many things in my childhood make sense now. My parents were narcissists, constantly trying to uphold their "false self." And now in their old age, they are STILL holding onto their false self. My father had three car accidents before he finally stopped driving. :( The aging narcissist will NOT accept that they are anything less than the delusion they have of themselves in their heads. It's dangerous. My mother-in-law was not like this. She stopped driving on her own, after an accident that wasn't even her fault. My dad only finally stopped driving when my uncle flattered him that he was wanting to buy a RAV4 for a long time. The narcissistic supply from my uncle's flattery was what convinced my dad to sell his car. So totally different from my empathic mother-in-law who realized she wasn't having as good reaction times as she used to have. She had no delusions.
I am such a fan of both of you Dr.Ramani you have helped me so very much! Alanis, TY for this incredible collaboration of such an important topic! I truly am grateful for this conversation between the 2 of you as it was so informative and has so much gravity that resonates within me. Keep up the good work of self love and healing Alanis as I am inspired by your transparency and spirit! Dr. Ramani, words cannot express how very much you have helped me, especially last year. You are a gift from above for so many! Sending 🤍 to you both! ~ Love~Levity~& Light🕊️🕊️🕊️~Amy~
Accountability is strength of character and narcissistic people do not understand this. It ignites shame and guilt within them and instead of dealing with problems head on they run from them and deflect. This is where i had to draw the line because you will spend your life in a lopsided relationship.
I used to drive up to Port Angeles WA. in 96' delivering paint and listened to her CD there and back. What wonderful memories. Interesting I was definitely in the throws of these dynamics but had no clue then. How interesting!!! Time and space.
I used to live in Port Angeles too. Small world! Just wanted to say hello and I pray for your peace and healing. Mine too. ❤
I love Port Angeles. I live across the Strait of Juan De Fuca on Vancouver Island 😊
@@BLB-mf8kkTHANK YOU 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@jenniferfrances8793😊🙏🏼
@@jenniferfrances8793😊
At 40:00 ❗️Dr. R. makes a very important point of insight everyone would do well to pay attention to. And that is, (1) Who is vulnerable to getting "pulled in " by the charms and manipulation? Anybody. Anyone in any class or socio-economic level can be attracted and interested to some degree. But then... there is the question (2) Who are the people that GET STUCK there in that mess of a relationship / tangled chaos? Thank you for discussing that important difference and how we can educate ourselves and develop a strong defense against that ploy, trick, trap.
Thank you for having and airing this conversation. It's so hard to live with one with many of these traits for a long period of time.
I'm trying to get away from one but it's very difficult.
Don't waste any more of your precious years, get away, you will not regret it. God bless.
Alanis! What a great interview! Thank you. I've been following Dr. Ramani for a while now, but never latched on the the words that you spoke "lack of curiosity". I was not versed and unaware of narcissism during my 30 year marriage to one, however became stunned during 9-11 at his lack of empathy. 'Lack of curiosity' will now be my second bell weather. Thank God he left me after 30 years when I think he realized I had his 'number'. After that I realized my father was also a narcissist and that I was pre-conditioned.
Grateful to hear the two of you luminaries share in detail these mental health issues we are ALL affected by. I have been following Dr Ramani on RUclips for a while- Thank you both for shedding light on these complex human behaviors. More, please.
Thank you 🙏 I just want to love those in my life that can't do empathy. They need it more than most. Except now I know it comes at a cost that is to heavy to pay. I always disappear into them. I'm not invisible & I need empathy too. Alanis & Dr R two strong women from two stages of my life decades apart, but have become individuals I seek when I need clarity. Thank you. ❤️
Alanis Morisette is cool.Always sane songs.❤
I absolutely love how self-aware you are, Alanis! I saw your concert in Nashville on Sept 15, 1996. Always a fan!!
Be Strong enough to be honest and kind