I winny if they rework him to make his snipe slightly better but maybe nerf his Tesla slightly from 75 to 70 would be healthier in my opinion as he melts squishy characters rn
Low elo problems is not a proper response. I don’t even need to mention that it’s lazy and just you trying to buff your ego. Most players are low elo, and even players in high ranks complain about counter swapping. Counter swapping really ruins the tank experience as a whole.
@josemariamoran6656 the OWL grand finals last year, Florida mayhem literally won through counter picking. Not to mention countless high level players have complained about how bad its gotten
Let's be really honest for a minute here man..... as someonewho played both 5v5 and 6v6 as a tank player, the counter swapping issue is NOT EVEN COMPARABLE. Was it still there? Yeah, but the magnitude is so much greater now. To the point where people say if you aren't on at least 3 characters to counter the tanbk you're throwing. That never happened in 6v6.
Counterpicking was almost never a thing outside of going hitscan to deal with a pharah/echo player. One of the biggest complaints of ow1 at high ranks was the constant mirrormatching because picking suboptimal characters that would make you need to switch later would insta lose you games due to how important the ult economy was
@@lifestudent6744 They have said it, but it doesn't change anything and it won't change anything. The game is 5v5 now and will remain that way, for good or for ill. We either have to begrudgingly accept that and enjoy what we can, or just quit if it isn't enjoyable anymore.
Oh stfu..... In 6v6 it was tank metas that defined the game not counter swapping. U couldn't play rein Zar into orisa sig. Or Winston dva. And now ur gonna reply with some bullshit about balancing the game when another oppressive tank meta will show up and make every other tank unplayable again. This shit needs to stop lol
The biggest issue is they keep making blanket changes instead of fine tuning the heroes properly. Giving every tank some extra damage resistance isn’t really “balance”, it’s like slapping on a bandaid and hoping an infection clears.
@@kingauther7812 Agreed. Also, sometimes systemic changes are necessary because the problem isn't with individual balance, but with the design of the game itself. You can't solve systemic problems with individual tweaks, you have to change the systems.
@@foossy9 Nope. I've been on the 5v5 train since it was first announced. I don't hear a lot of people talk about this in their debates, but for me the biggest reason it was good for the game has absolutely nothing to do with balance between roles, queue times, or etc: I just think the game needed the entire lobby to have fewer people in it. In my view, going to 1 tank was just the necessary cost that needed to be paid when you have both role queue and an odd number of players in the lobby - but the *real* improvement to the game came from literally having less people doing shit. Less ultimate's, less cooldowns, less health bars, less damage sources, less bodies to contest objectives, less angles to deal with, so on and etc.
Supports job is to help reverse a mistake. Bap immortality can protect over extension. Same with kiri. Ana nade can make a bad engagment winnable. Life weaver has his pull and mercy has a rez. You could even argue lucio speed boost too an extent can save you from a mistake
13:50 There's no reason to sacrifice hero diversity or have swapping feel like it's either too effective or not at all. 5v5 just forces these things to happen which ruins the fun. The beauty of 6v6 was that it allowed for "engagement style" (dive) or "aim reliant" (poke) to be viable, both tanks just had to execute on it. What prevented this from working was a lack of balance patches for years. Not to mention with the current state of tanks hero bans would completely diminish the player base.
@@justinchookasezian2082 absolutely not true😆you don't get game of the year with "not enough tank players". What happened is they LOST tank players by not updating the game and only releasing dps year after year. Were you even playing since release or are you new here?
@justinchookasezian2082 I'd say its alot worse now. No one wants to play tank in 5v5 now cause it feels garbage even when u play well and do all the right things.
I've played this game since season 1 and I've always thought it's sorta lame to "have" to swap to win a matchup. Obviously, that's not always correct bc a widow CAN kill a tracer or winston but not easily. Usually that's situational. But my character should be viable or "able to win" against most of the cast if I have the mechanics and game knowledge to out-play the other players. But in ow1 if you're playing widow and rolling the lobby and the enemy team would swap winston dva genji reaper Lucio and just jump on your forehead you are forced to swap or you'll lose. Obviously that's the whole team countering you, allowing you or your team to swap to something that shits on them. But now if ONE person swaps (usually the tank) you are at a disadvantage immediately due to the maps being a little more walk simulator but still one person ruining my experience just bc they swapped to a counter pick is lame af. I want to play the character I want to play. Ofc balance is never going to be perfect in a game like this but having to counter pick to win in a game of qp is just cringe af
I don't understand this mindset. What are the 4 other people doing on your team when you get dove and how are you helping out the team? Even when I'm playing Ana and get dove by a tank, I know that my positioning is far enough to burn a cooldown from the tank to get me, so they are an easy target.
@huepeople what mindset homie? Your question is actually stupid. What are my tm8s doing?! Like you tell me mf. This game has a thousand different reasons, a thousand different situations that a fight goes wrong or a fight goes right. There is no one good answer. You say you play Ana and have enough time to get away. But is that 100% of the time? You sleep the enemy diving you and they stay cc'd 100% of the time? You're saying you have never died bc a winston jumped on your forehead? Bc if that's true you're in a bronze lobby for sureeeee. But even still ana has a self heal and a sleep dart to defend herself. What does a character like widow have? A fucking grapple on a 10 second cool down 😂😂. I'm not saying I'm being dove 24/7 I'm just saying when the enemy DOES decide to counter swap your character you longer can be useful until you yourself swap. I gave an EXAMPLE of a situation like widow being dove. That's not the only counter swap situation. Here's another: if you play junkrat and the enemy swaps to zarya to farm charge off your nades then she herself at full charge is almost guaranteed to melt your squishies. Yes other ppl are probably shooting her bubble to but you yourself are giving her probably 90 of the damage needed to be full charge. Meaning YOU are throwing the game for your team all bc you chose to play junk or they chose to play zarya Obviously this all depends on the skill of the players and maps choke points and whole lot of other shit but it's an example for a reason.
@@huepeople these comments are full of low skill players who are just doing mental gymnastics to try and blame the game for them being bad. most of these arguments im reading are so contradictory and dont even make sense.
Okay but did you think about it this way... Maybe that player that swapped to counter you just wanted to play that character without counter swapping but you were ruining their experience...Read your comment again with that lens and it makes it sound really silly.
REmember, Counterpicking is a logical consequence of having unique and quirky characters. Saying "i don't want counterpicking" is equal to saying "i don't want unique characters". Counterpicking only gets less effective by removing the things that make characters stand out (or by killing balance and making characters overpowered). A balanced Hero with unique strengths will always have unique weaknesses that can be exploited with the right counter.
Paladins has unique and quirky characters and you can't swap after drafting a team composition. Maybe the overwatch devs should consider taking things from paladins like the talent and card deck system.
@@lukeaustin4465 i don't know Paladins personally, but after only a minute of googling it i came across this in a Paladins Balance Thread: "If you don't know how to counter pick don't cry about Champs being unbalanced" So clearly counterpicking is a big part of Paladins as well, just done during the draft.
@@aeons7836 This delusional and based on a skewed graph that doesn't actually show important facts like distance from target and pellets landed. You have to be EXACTLY point blank (0m away, rubbing hitboxes) in order for this graph to work as represented. Oh and you can't miss a single pellet either... of which you have 20.
@@aeons7836 If you had more than two braincells, you'd understand that it's not about aim, but rather being able to engage enemies without losing ground (which is impossible btw, since you need everything spelled out for you).
Counter picking should be a thing if you are flexible on most heroes in a role and play them generally to the same skill level. The issue is that even when I'm playing my hero mains, or even one tricks on a role like support (Kiriko) I often get more value by swapping to a counterpick hero that I actually legit never play or am just really bad at. It's unhealthy game design when the counters are so strong that individual skill on a hero counts for less than just playing the right thing. The way the game should be is that you can succeed by either being a hero expert, or a counter swapping generalist, and if you are expert level on many heroes, you can achieve the highest rank. I'm in a position where I climb more by being bad at many heroes than I do by being good at a few, and that feels very off, and unrewarding.
I feel like counter swapping for the tank role is kinda toxic and shows a gap in play skill, As a hog/ Winston main I tend to get countered every game and win 7/10 out of the time. If I feel like I’m truly getting outplayed I’ll mirror match or ask my team to assist me is certain situations.
As a lucio main who have seen many tanks slowly turn towards me as they receive low healing after running from my heal burst with a 12 sec cd and take 2 years to get them to full health. The passive healing will help
Love rolling out of spawn watch my team pick non synergy heros. Then have to deal with 2+ hard counters on my tank pick. I usally end up on sig, zar or hog.
Reinhart is probably the biggest loser out of this patch. He’s going to be a lot weaker than everyone thinks. Right now he’s actually really good. It’s why cloudy has got to top 10.
The part of Rein that is indisputably better is how much damage he does to other tanks. Rein will be better able to bully and threaten other tanks out of a space. It may seem small if you haven’t thought about it but all of his abilities will do almost 30% more damage to other tanks with armor. That is NOT a small change.
Not sure the reversion of armour is the right play here. I think I would have preferred the headshot resistance, and a reduction of the armour resistance % to something like 15 or 20%. I don't like the idea of needing to counterpick tanks. If anything, the tank should be the foundation of the comp, and the counterpicking should be more the realm of the dps. Ideally, tanks wouldn't directly counter each other. Rather the comp built around the tank is countered by the other comp. Ideally, in a void, tanks would be able to go head to head with each other on equal footing. But that's quite the ambitious expectation, I admit.
I personally want to see counter swaps to not be so imperative that you get flamed or you feel like you cannot play the game if you dont. I'd prefer the game to feel like the heroes give you different utility and options, and obviously some have better options vs others but that you dont have to play rock paper scissors or you're a bad tank. I don't know if we'll ever see 6v6 in a balanced way come back, especially if they want to keep the '2' on their name. But say what you will, there was a lot more skill expression as a tank (minus the shield metas, which those characters no longer interact the same anyway). Mostly wanted to throw a comment and like to keep the algorithm fed for you. Thank you for the video!
People just need to learn how to play around tanks correctly. I typically play support and just use my abilities to force out other abilities, while not being a simple heal bot. The team death match style players are gonna suffer this patch with the tank changes and I'm here for it.
Hog is already dominant. He's going to be even stronger now. Winston is going to be stronger too. But he at least has obvious shut-downs. Big requires a team effort.
I think you are wrong about the armour changes for tank. A soldier or soujurn can now just as easily melt you from a distance, with or without a mercy pocket. Having a 30% damage reduction meant that for armoured tanks you had just a little bit of survivability even with the 100 dps of oncoming damage to strategise and move around, now, things will shred you faster. Yes, Mauga, Reaper and Bastion will suck, but it was possible to play around them without those guys feeling utterly useless against armour (like old winston primary fire)
As a Reaper player, this saddens me the most, because he is already shit rn and this will make him the worst, one of the only things hes good at is busting tanks, now they'll cripple him, my guy needs a buff or a rework asap.
OW tanks that aim diff? Nahhhhh, it helps but those guns have so much spread or the projectiles move so slow that it's better to aim for the upper chest instead of going for headshots. I like playing tank conceptually but I prefer primary fire to be more like Cass/Ash/Widow/Soldier/Illari and there's just not a tank like that.
Playing Winton in solo q right now is more like playing a survivor in Dead by Daylight. Every dps and tank will swap into something that presses W at you until you die.
I think the number 25% sounds high to people naturally thinking psychology-wise, but it is not, I honestly thought 15% self healing wasn't enough/high at all. Just cause you have 25% headshot resist does not mean you can stand out in the open like a silly fool and take headshots left and right and survive and win. This update helps Tank players who are good at Tank and know what they are doing have a better time. If you play Tank and don't know what you're doing and refuse to learn and improve then blizzard shouldn't even be listening to your complaints you literally need to stop standing out in the open and improve your awareness and game sense, when you do that you'll have a better time as Tank especially after this patch. As a man whose favorite character is Winston and have had games where I never die if nobody swaps to ALL my counters (I can handle a Reaper well alone, dva, etc but once there are over 2 counters it becomes a chore) i am happy for this patch. I personally enjoy the counter pick game I believe you should strive to be an all around player especially with the Tank category, but sometimes I'd rather just be playing my best Tank because it makes my time helping our team win "easier" if I have to switch and counter and I'm not as good with that Tank I gotta really sweat extra to make sure I do good, and if im not doing good I gotta use more inner energy to not rage and get tilted because that always make things worse lol. Hopefully with this patch I can more often stick to the tanks I play the best with now
If Winston is strong, perhaps we can finally go back to fighting Supports instead of Tanks? Then it becomes about duelling, not bullying (since we have Supports who can fight back).
Sorta. As a DVa main (more hours on her than literally any other character), I've been thinking about this a lot. First of all, it's only a nerf to her damage against - for the most part - other tanks. And, generally it's not the best idea to be facing other tanks directly one on one with DVa anyway - you want to take off angles, dive squishies, be in the right place at the right time to eat important damage (either aiding your DPS in winning a duel, or peeling for your supports during a dive), and so on. And, for the non-tanks with armor, they all have multi-hit damage sources, which the armor buffs will effect dramatically. Which, is something to keep in mind in general: DVa herself has a ton of Armor, and so she'll benefit from this change defensively, too. That might have the effect of smoothing out the experience when your DM resources are lower, allowing you to provide more consistent presence on the battlefield instead of having to run away and hide when your DM is down. Likewise, for the headshot change, while DVa can definitely hide her head hitbox from people better than most other tanks, the targets she can't hide it from are snipers while you're trying to dive them, which are exactly the characters who are hurt most by the headshot damage reduction - so, diving those targets will become a lot better. Overall, I like these changes for the same reason that I liked the S9 changes: It's really not so obvious how all of this will shake out, and for every nerf I can think of, there's an associated buff in some other area that compensates. All in all, it feels more like power is just being moved around in tank kits rather than being strictly nerfed or buffed. And, also just like the S9 changes, those movements seem to take power out of the really powerful things, and put it into much weaker things, making the game less boom or bust and more consistent.
It's a buff. If you're shooting a full hp tank with armor before you've killed supports/DPS as a dive tank, you're playing the game wrong. Exceptions exist (mauga) but generally most tanks get more value from ignoring the enemy tank and killing everything around them rather than mindlessly pumping DMG into a double pocketed tank.
I like how freedo takes a shot at 6v6 using the zarya v pharah example. But in 5v5 if you swap to dva to deal with phara.. they swap to zarya, keep pharah and you get hard rolled. Also you had an extra tank to help slow the slower damage dealing pharah in 6v6. Nice try freedo.
i just hade a game where a dps player hade 0 kills and 12 deaths at the end of the game demanded 3 people in our team should counter the enemy team and we are the reason we lost the game he swaped like 6 times and never got anything done that happened in plat and i was not even mad i was just confused how delusional people can be btw everyone but him was atlest positive, he was the first to chat, and this really happened
Personally I think hero swapping should be a pretty ineffective strategy, if only because different heroes require such different skill sets that winning or losing a round can come down to the matchup of hero pools that people are capable of But I’ve realized over the years that the game I want to play just isn’t the one they’re making lol
the tank counter picking problem is blizzards own fault. certain characters like doom, queen, Orisa, Mauga, and hog dont work as tanks so their numbers got juiced up so much they dominate lobbies until they're countered. but the reason they had to be juiced up so much is because blizzard avoids reworking unhealthy heros like Ana, Zen, Sombra, and some of the tanks themselves like Hog and Orisa etc that cause the problem to begin with because of how hard they shutdown other characters.
The fact that we still have to compare ow 2 to ow 1 I feel like they should've just kept 6v6. We're constantly in this in-between sequel/huge patch state and tank is the best example. There's times when I love 5 v 5 there's times when I miss 6 v 6 but they feel like two different games.
Sup again Average reaper main here, Reapers Dont just focus the tank down just because its an easy win we do it because its the best course of action if you go after the healer your most likely getting focused by both of them and any good teamate they have. If you go after the dps most of them can either out dps you or out range you with ease unless your ballzdeep into them and then we have the tank who most of the time is pushing your team or out of position so you have support and they dont the only time this isnt a problem is below silver anything above gold reaper is mostly useless because A the tank is way smarter and doesnt do stupid shit and B everyone has the aim and game sense to counter his entire kit.
How much things have to change, to remain the same.... We are basically back to square one. Back to GOATS (not the teamcomp, but the mindset behind it). >Create game that rotates around counterpicks >You cant balance the game, because counterpick counter picks too much, and its not fun >You try to balance it by creating champs that counter more variety of heroes, and are basically an amalgamation of some heroes present in the game >Now no one plays older heroes >Try to powercreep old heroes to make them viable, and not insta throw the game. >Now counterpicks dont counter pick, because powercreep happend >You try to compansate it by reworking Ultis, and how quickly they power up >Now no one plays champs that have useless ultimates, since they just straight out loose the fights >Buff the healers to give people more space in a teamfight for composition. >The problem oscilates even further, since now you win a game only if you have competent healer to carry you. So every game lost is insta flaming the supports. >Overwatch 2 happens >The idiots think that 2 less people in a game will make a difference for a supports and dps classes >it didnt. >Years pass, and Blizzard does same shit what they were doing way back in 2016, with some little variations. >Matchmaking resolves around the same grindy ranked system, that straight out robs you of your time, and they have the audacity to call it "more challenging and fun" >Absolute dogshit battlepasses in the middle, that no one wanted and no one asked for Not at any point in time in overwatch history, we had real update that facilitates and resolves around making people play better, and rewarding true skill. Not a fucking single one update since 2016. In effect, people play worse than in 4th season of OV1. Matches gravitate towards certain individuals that are under-ranked, because the game needs them to balance out completely brainrot players, that cant fell from rank, since they have 20 thousand games in this exact rank, and MMR wont allow it. If you have any respect left for yourself, stop playing this game, and forget that it is existing. Especially if you are good player. Blizzard hates people that are better than average, and use them as their pump, to hook up imbeciles since they are willing to spend their money on the game.
The game will never be balanced to a point where counter-picking is not relavent, but that's okay. As long as the devs keep buffing weak heroes and nerfing strong heroes, the meta will always be changing. This keeps the game fresh. Every season is a bit different with different heroes shining, and I love it.
Counter picking can’t get balanced out in the 5v5 format, and the balancing problem doesn’t get solved if you’re just constantly buffing and nerfing characters. That idea is really unfun to the player depending if they are on the receiving end of questionable changes to their favorite character. 6v6 never had this problem when properly balanced. In fact, season 20 something in 2020 was the healthiest Overwatch ever was and probably ever will be. This change is just another reminder that team 4 doesn’t have a solution to making 5v5 work over 6v6.
Ah yes the constant cycle of Buff Orisa to meta, to Nerf Orisa out of Meta, to then Buff Orisa back into Meta because the Hog/Mauga got overbuffed, rinse and repeat cycle is very fresh. Good times for everyone
as a person who has played competitive games since a child mainly fighting games this sounds like a nightmare. What is wrong with a nuanced gameplay loop to ACTUALLY become the best at your character and not have to worry about the devs taking your character and throwing them in the dumpster every other week sounds like a trash experience and is 100% for the casuals. The fact of the matter is that this isn't a competitive game. its like taking chess and then randomly turning a queen into a knight or a knight into a bishop before the board starts... at that point you're playing a casual game not a competitve one...
Genuine question no sarcasm intended. How is it possible for a game like Overwatch to not having counterpicking as its main framework? Are there games out there in a similar position but without counter picking being a problem?
Conterpicking in Overwatch has always been a thing, in Overwatch 2 it is way more prevalent as there is only one tank who is extremely valuable as they all get their stats super buffed. Since the Tank is so strong you get exponentially more value for denying the tank from doing anything. And in Overwatch one tanks could cover each others weaknesses e.g. Zarya bubbling a hog that got anti naded so he can use take a breather or dva eating the nade all together. Counteracting will always bee a part of the game and I personally enjoyed it at the level of Overwatch 1. You could still get value with your pick but if you were comfortable with an slightly more optimal pick you could make your comp a little better, in Overwatch 2 it feels mandatory to swap if you want to win
Game sense and strategy feel vastly more satisfying than rapid accurate mouse movement, and relying on the latter lends more easily to toxic elitism, imho. Also herobans ought be contained to tourneys, never Comp.
Winston needs his ult reworked compared to other ults that can kill a whole team he basically just knocks people around 😅 ( can't move the dva ult tho). Seems Iike he only gets kills if the team is already low health. I'm not saying it's needs to kill a whole team just some damage would be good. Lol you can't always wait til the enemy team is low health. So most times you end up just knocking some people around and then dying. Lol
The best thing that they could do to fix the tank role is to add the second tank position back. Limit the main tank role to actual protection tanks, such as Rein, Sigma, Winston, Ramattra. Take the remainder of the "tanks" and put them in a "DPS Tank" role. If they must stick with a 5-man team, remove one of the dps roles. Also... remove Doomfist from the game.
Nobody wants to swap 300 times in game to keep counter picking for 15% on a rank up. Counter picking is TOO effective. Regardless of the 'type of game' ur playing the meta shouldn't be to just counter pick... its not skillful to get slammed by a doom and go sombra. Get slammed by a hog and go ana. Get slammed by Dva and go Zarya. There's 5 people on each team that can just counter pick 1 guy and win because u don't win fights without a tank. The exact reason tank feels more like survive sim rather than a role to enjoy when playing
@@Darkaran1 the only reason queue times got that bad was because the playerbase was smaller since it was at that point a 6 year old game still priced at $40 that the devs had abandoned for 2 years. You're being disingenous with queue times arguments and speculating. I would bet in a f2p game with active dev involvement the queue times for finding an extra tank will be barely noticable than current. Hell queue times have noticeably gotten longer without improving match quality now thanks to this wide/narrow bs for matchmaking.
Am i the only one who's tired of "having to relearn how to play the game" like everyother week... 13:09 man just give me back my 6v6 and dpsdoom bro its like if nintendo busted the door down of your house and took your copy of super smash bros melee and told you "its ok... heres the "updated" version" and give you brawl. This is NOT what I payed for.
I think wrecking ball is still gonna suck. Wrecking balls main problem is his primary guns he just does not do enough damage for his primary fire. They really need to buff that so wrecking ball can actually help get picks.
This game is too much about a tank. No matter what situation the tank has the most responsibility to take. Meaning if you're tank does not make the proper swap or play well. It forces the dps and supports to swap. Nerfing more interactions and counters for tanks will on make the harder for every role and increase the already bloated value of the tank. This game is about map control and positioning first. The need to buff every tank so they can walk down main without thought will only lead to worse game design. I think they should tune all the tanks down and reduce their hit boxes so they don't have to be able to shoulder the responsibility in the team fights. A dps and a tank in a 1v1 should be 50/50 fight. Right now if a tank wants to chase a dps/support there is little to do to counter them other than swap. Buffing this mega tank style will only bring more cc/healing into the game. Either that or return to 6v6 where another tank can help distribute the power. Right now if your tank makes one misplay or accidently feeds it causes a total loss to a team fight. Each role should have a even amount of impact that is when the game feels the most balanced.
make every tank like orisa that’s the perfect solution😒😒😒 unkillable walls aren’t healthy for the game. either add high mobility tanks with lower HP but high kill power like doom, JQ, and even zarya or bring back 6v6. the tanks that act much more like DPS heros and are self sufficient are the only tanks that make sense in a 5v5 environment. when you add broken tanks like sigma, orisa, reworked hog, and mauga then the game is a giant slog and is no fun. you can’t make walls fun to play against. but then other characters like winston and rein require way too much help from supports to get anything done. characters specifically designed for 6v6 are weak without a second tank (who would’ve thought). ball and even ramatra feel are better suited for 6v6. if you make ball unkillable that’s gonna aids to play against. so what are the options? only have people play zarya, doom, and JQ? Even tho they fit the format far better than every other tank by being balanced not to strong not too weak you can’t just remove the rest of the tanks even tho i wouldn’t be opposed to only fighting my favorite tanks. the only solution is 6v6. 5v5 will just make either tank extremely weak or extremely broken with very little inbetween. 6v6 splits the role in half allowing for easier balancing. you can lower tank Hp to actually be killable and lower their utility bcz guess what you got a second tank to make up for it. you as the individual become weaker but you have a second person to cover your back.
@@zkilla2924 OW2 POTGs are like a DPS getting 2 miscellaneous kills, one ult being cancelled, or a maybe 2-3 dying in like a Sigma/Orisa ult. OW1 POTGs were like entire teams (of 6) being wiped by ult combos or a good blade, grav, shatter, visor, noon, etc… the game was just way more lit and sure you can find 5ks in OW2 but it is far, far less common and you know it.
@@GraphiteBlimp27 lmao has notbing to do with the comment. ult combis still happen. team wipes with ults dont happen as often anymore because they added a bunch of escapes, mobility, and invincibility abilities and they nerfed tf out of CC. It has nothing to do with 6v6 and why would you even want that back anyway? you really wanna go back to the days of sitting at a choke until someone gets ult? you guys make no sense. if the game is so bad now quit playing it. but you wont because its in a much better state than it was in OW1 aNd yOu kNoW iT
I'm still not over tryhards being so weak now, they report you for calling them & get you suspended. These changes WILL make tryhardw worse. Next Saturday, I just cant be in Open text chat anymore.
The changes make sense but balance will be bad. I hope they will be quick to balance heroes properly. On paper: Dva: defense goes slightly down, dmg goes down: Loses from armor but gains a lot from headshots which somewhat compensate it. Orisa: defense goes slightly down, dmg goes down: Same as Dva. Ramattra: defense goes down, staff dmg goes down, pummel dmg goes up: Defense goes down a lot. The armor burst what makes Ram functional. Seems like a major nerf. Rein: defense goes down, dmg goes big up, can't knockback: Gains big in tank duels and have barrier anyways and can't be knocked back now. Big gainz. Ball: defense goes slightly up, dmg goes down: Headshot change will help him a bit when he is hacked. Zarya: defense goes up, dmg same: Flat buff Winston: defense goes up, dmg same, can't knockback: Biggest winner. Hog: defense goes up, dmg goes down: Wildcard Sigma: defense goes up, dmg goes up: Winner Doomfist: defense goes up, dmg for abilities goes up, dmg for primary fire goes down: Winner JQ: defense goes up, dmg for abilities goes up, dmg for primary fire goes down: Arguably second best after Winton but Rein will block him. Mauga: defense goes up, dmg goes down: Wildcard
Everyone wants to pop off and own the lobby but the receiving end wants to be able to actually do something about it and not be helpless and they want that in the easiest way possible. Everyone’s main is too weak and everyone else’s is too strong. 6v6 was better no it wasn’t
Игры
Tbh if we got Rein/Winston hard meta I would never complain again
I winny if they rework him to make his snipe slightly better but maybe nerf his Tesla slightly from 75 to 70 would be healthier in my opinion as he melts squishy characters rn
We’re getting there. The orisa nerf was a rein buff.
@@haku4841idc if winton or any other tank is giga broken as long as orisa/hog/mauga isn't meta
Rule of Thumb that's how you know if the game is in a good state.
@@lifted71blazerhonestly hog takes skill and can be countered by 3 hero’s on each role
As a winton player, I am truly sick of the instant swap to reaper/bastion/hog after the first team fight.
it will happen again lol
Thats a low elo problem
Low elo problems is not a proper response. I don’t even need to mention that it’s lazy and just you trying to buff your ego.
Most players are low elo, and even players in high ranks complain about counter swapping. Counter swapping really ruins the tank experience as a whole.
@@JJ-re5fy 90% of players are diamond or below, so kindly STFU.
@josemariamoran6656 the OWL grand finals last year, Florida mayhem literally won through counter picking. Not to mention countless high level players have complained about how bad its gotten
The fly had me so confused for a second lol
Let's be really honest for a minute here man..... as someonewho played both 5v5 and 6v6 as a tank player, the counter swapping issue is NOT EVEN COMPARABLE. Was it still there? Yeah, but the magnitude is so much greater now. To the point where people say if you aren't on at least 3 characters to counter the tanbk you're throwing. That never happened in 6v6.
FACTS
Counterpicking was almost never a thing outside of going hitscan to deal with a pharah/echo player. One of the biggest complaints of ow1 at high ranks was the constant mirrormatching because picking suboptimal characters that would make you need to switch later would insta lose you games due to how important the ult economy was
Seriously. Every content creator knows that the game was made for 6v6 but they wanna avoid saying it.
@@lifestudent6744 They have said it, but it doesn't change anything and it won't change anything. The game is 5v5 now and will remain that way, for good or for ill. We either have to begrudgingly accept that and enjoy what we can, or just quit if it isn't enjoyable anymore.
Oh stfu..... In 6v6 it was tank metas that defined the game not counter swapping. U couldn't play rein Zar into orisa sig. Or Winston dva. And now ur gonna reply with some bullshit about balancing the game when another oppressive tank meta will show up and make every other tank unplayable again. This shit needs to stop lol
Roadhog now immortal.
Nah, as an Ana main, this changes nothing for me
@@Qabra-you must get good DPS frequently
You mean ORISA is immortal lmao
Mauga as well
The biggest issue is they keep making blanket changes instead of fine tuning the heroes properly.
Giving every tank some extra damage resistance isn’t really “balance”, it’s like slapping on a bandaid and hoping an infection clears.
Exactly, they need to go in a fine tune how each tank interacts with each other. Otherwise hard counters will always exist which is lame af
They have been tuning the tanks but they have not been fun for most people so something global for tanks needed to change
@@kingauther7812 Agreed. Also, sometimes systemic changes are necessary because the problem isn't with individual balance, but with the design of the game itself. You can't solve systemic problems with individual tweaks, you have to change the systems.
And let me guess the change you have in mind.. complete stab in the dark .. uhh 6v6?? @@KuroKitten
@@foossy9 Nope. I've been on the 5v5 train since it was first announced. I don't hear a lot of people talk about this in their debates, but for me the biggest reason it was good for the game has absolutely nothing to do with balance between roles, queue times, or etc: I just think the game needed the entire lobby to have fewer people in it.
In my view, going to 1 tank was just the necessary cost that needed to be paid when you have both role queue and an odd number of players in the lobby - but the *real* improvement to the game came from literally having less people doing shit. Less ultimate's, less cooldowns, less health bars, less damage sources, less bodies to contest objectives, less angles to deal with, so on and etc.
Wrecking ball stubbed his toe
Wrecking toe stubbed his ball
@@dehydrateddoomer1226
Balling toe stubbed his wreck
stubbing ball toed his wreck
Wrecking toe stubbed his ball
💀🍒😂
6:35 has to be the most toxic overwatch play I've ever seen. Lifeweaver just gets to uno reverse a mistake and then you end up killing their hog
The teamwork is amazing! It's rare to experience such awesome moments in a game lol
Supports job is to help reverse a mistake. Bap immortality can protect over extension. Same with kiri. Ana nade can make a bad engagment winnable. Life weaver has his pull and mercy has a rez. You could even argue lucio speed boost too an extent can save you from a mistake
13:50 There's no reason to sacrifice hero diversity or have swapping feel like it's either too effective or not at all. 5v5 just forces these things to happen which ruins the fun. The beauty of 6v6 was that it allowed for "engagement style" (dive) or "aim reliant" (poke) to be viable, both tanks just had to execute on it. What prevented this from working was a lack of balance patches for years.
Not to mention with the current state of tanks hero bans would completely diminish the player base.
There simply were not enough tank players to sustain 6v6. That's why it will never and should never come back
@@justinchookasezian2082 absolutely not true😆you don't get game of the year with "not enough tank players". What happened is they LOST tank players by not updating the game and only releasing dps year after year. Were you even playing since release or are you new here?
@justinchookasezian2082 I'd say its alot worse now. No one wants to play tank in 5v5 now cause it feels garbage even when u play well and do all the right things.
I've played this game since season 1 and I've always thought it's sorta lame to "have" to swap to win a matchup. Obviously, that's not always correct bc a widow CAN kill a tracer or winston but not easily. Usually that's situational. But my character should be viable or "able to win" against most of the cast if I have the mechanics and game knowledge to out-play the other players. But in ow1 if you're playing widow and rolling the lobby and the enemy team would swap winston dva genji reaper Lucio and just jump on your forehead you are forced to swap or you'll lose. Obviously that's the whole team countering you, allowing you or your team to swap to something that shits on them. But now if ONE person swaps (usually the tank) you are at a disadvantage immediately due to the maps being a little more walk simulator but still one person ruining my experience just bc they swapped to a counter pick is lame af. I want to play the character I want to play. Ofc balance is never going to be perfect in a game like this but having to counter pick to win in a game of qp is just cringe af
true and qp is reated as comp 2.0 which aint fun at all
I don't understand this mindset. What are the 4 other people doing on your team when you get dove and how are you helping out the team? Even when I'm playing Ana and get dove by a tank, I know that my positioning is far enough to burn a cooldown from the tank to get me, so they are an easy target.
@huepeople what mindset homie? Your question is actually stupid. What are my tm8s doing?! Like you tell me mf. This game has a thousand different reasons, a thousand different situations that a fight goes wrong or a fight goes right. There is no one good answer. You say you play Ana and have enough time to get away. But is that 100% of the time? You sleep the enemy diving you and they stay cc'd 100% of the time? You're saying you have never died bc a winston jumped on your forehead? Bc if that's true you're in a bronze lobby for sureeeee. But even still ana has a self heal and a sleep dart to defend herself. What does a character like widow have? A fucking grapple on a 10 second cool down 😂😂. I'm not saying I'm being dove 24/7 I'm just saying when the enemy DOES decide to counter swap your character you longer can be useful until you yourself swap. I gave an EXAMPLE of a situation like widow being dove. That's not the only counter swap situation. Here's another: if you play junkrat and the enemy swaps to zarya to farm charge off your nades then she herself at full charge is almost guaranteed to melt your squishies. Yes other ppl are probably shooting her bubble to but you yourself are giving her probably 90 of the damage needed to be full charge. Meaning YOU are throwing the game for your team all bc you chose to play junk or they chose to play zarya Obviously this all depends on the skill of the players and maps choke points and whole lot of other shit but it's an example for a reason.
@@huepeople these comments are full of low skill players who are just doing mental gymnastics to try and blame the game for them being bad. most of these arguments im reading are so contradictory and dont even make sense.
Okay but did you think about it this way...
Maybe that player that swapped to counter you just wanted to play that character without counter swapping but you were ruining their experience...Read your comment again with that lens and it makes it sound really silly.
fly coming in like dps and he just winston ults it RIP
yeah... the Simple Phara ult is just... what it is XD
REmember, Counterpicking is a logical consequence of having unique and quirky characters. Saying "i don't want counterpicking" is equal to saying "i don't want unique characters". Counterpicking only gets less effective by removing the things that make characters stand out (or by killing balance and making characters overpowered). A balanced Hero with unique strengths will always have unique weaknesses that can be exploited with the right counter.
Paladins has unique and quirky characters and you can't swap after drafting a team composition. Maybe the overwatch devs should consider taking things from paladins like the talent and card deck system.
@@lukeaustin4465 i don't know Paladins personally, but after only a minute of googling it i came across this in a Paladins Balance Thread: "If you don't know how to counter pick don't cry about Champs being unbalanced"
So clearly counterpicking is a big part of Paladins as well, just done during the draft.
I’m curious why seemingly no one has discussed Reaper. Basically the only thing he was kinda good at was tank busting and now he?
Here lies Gabriel Reyes 🪦
he still is, just takes 1 more second to kill than before
@@aeons7836 And actually if your hits land well enough, not even a full second
@@aeons7836 This delusional and based on a skewed graph that doesn't actually show important facts like distance from target and pellets landed. You have to be EXACTLY point blank (0m away, rubbing hitboxes) in order for this graph to work as represented. Oh and you can't miss a single pellet either... of which you have 20.
@@aeons7836 If you had more than two braincells, you'd understand that it's not about aim, but rather being able to engage enemies without losing ground (which is impossible btw, since you need everything spelled out for you).
Counter picking should be a thing if you are flexible on most heroes in a role and play them generally to the same skill level. The issue is that even when I'm playing my hero mains, or even one tricks on a role like support (Kiriko) I often get more value by swapping to a counterpick hero that I actually legit never play or am just really bad at. It's unhealthy game design when the counters are so strong that individual skill on a hero counts for less than just playing the right thing. The way the game should be is that you can succeed by either being a hero expert, or a counter swapping generalist, and if you are expert level on many heroes, you can achieve the highest rank. I'm in a position where I climb more by being bad at many heroes than I do by being good at a few, and that feels very off, and unrewarding.
I feel like counter swapping for the tank role is kinda toxic and shows a gap in play skill, As a hog/ Winston main I tend to get countered every game and win 7/10 out of the time. If I feel like I’m truly getting outplayed I’ll mirror match or ask my team to assist me is certain situations.
Savage as usual bro 👍🏽👍🏽Keep it up
Best videos in whole community regarding upcoming changes and speculations, thanks
* Reaper grumble in the general direction of May 14th *
The biggest outlier is cass fan the hammer exists and now does 270 per burst on a tank and nade stops them from running #11:59
As a lucio main who have seen many tanks slowly turn towards me as they receive low healing after running from my heal burst with a 12 sec cd and take 2 years to get them to full health. The passive healing will help
Man speaking facts as per usual. Also PREACH at 13:43-13:55
Love rolling out of spawn watch my team pick non synergy heros. Then have to deal with 2+ hard counters on my tank pick.
I usally end up on sig, zar or hog.
If the other dps counter reaper then yeah he becomes absolutely useless
Blizzard is having a hard time figuring out how to make Tanks feel good.
Can’t wait to abuse Reinhardt as rein main
Reinhart is probably the biggest loser out of this patch. He’s going to be a lot weaker than everyone thinks. Right now he’s actually really good.
It’s why cloudy has got to top 10.
Lots of people who don’t understand Reinhardt think he’s going to be stronger with this patch. But he’s really not in practice.
@@MacGamingGuides for me I know how to abuse rein no matter how weak he gets
The part of Rein that is indisputably better is how much damage he does to other tanks. Rein will be better able to bully and threaten other tanks out of a space. It may seem small if you haven’t thought about it but all of his abilities will do almost 30% more damage to other tanks with armor. That is NOT a small change.
@@MacGamingGuides I mean the changes are only buffs for him how is he losing in this?
When they say 25% damage reduction is that all crit damage? Does that affect mauga burn crit damage?
A dev was in flats chat when he was making a youtube vid about these changes and the dev said the maugas burn crit would be an exception
Not sure the reversion of armour is the right play here. I think I would have preferred the headshot resistance, and a reduction of the armour resistance % to something like 15 or 20%.
I don't like the idea of needing to counterpick tanks. If anything, the tank should be the foundation of the comp, and the counterpicking should be more the realm of the dps. Ideally, tanks wouldn't directly counter each other. Rather the comp built around the tank is countered by the other comp. Ideally, in a void, tanks would be able to go head to head with each other on equal footing. But that's quite the ambitious expectation, I admit.
I personally want to see counter swaps to not be so imperative that you get flamed or you feel like you cannot play the game if you dont.
I'd prefer the game to feel like the heroes give you different utility and options, and obviously some have better options vs others but that you dont have to play rock paper scissors or you're a bad tank.
I don't know if we'll ever see 6v6 in a balanced way come back, especially if they want to keep the '2' on their name. But say what you will, there was a lot more skill expression as a tank (minus the shield metas, which those characters no longer interact the same anyway).
Mostly wanted to throw a comment and like to keep the algorithm fed for you. Thank you for the video!
People just need to learn how to play around tanks correctly. I typically play support and just use my abilities to force out other abilities, while not being a simple heal bot. The team death match style players are gonna suffer this patch with the tank changes and I'm here for it.
youroverwatch hoppin on the epstin plane i saw him over and over again flight lists!
Hog is already dominant. He's going to be even stronger now. Winston is going to be stronger too. But he at least has obvious shut-downs. Big requires a team effort.
So when this patch crashes and burns, and completely fails to fix the issues it's designed to, will you then be more open to the idea 6v6 was better?
I’m open to that now.
I think you are wrong about the armour changes for tank. A soldier or soujurn can now just as easily melt you from a distance, with or without a mercy pocket. Having a 30% damage reduction meant that for armoured tanks you had just a little bit of survivability even with the 100 dps of oncoming damage to strategise and move around, now, things will shred you faster. Yes, Mauga, Reaper and Bastion will suck, but it was possible to play around them without those guys feeling utterly useless against armour (like old winston primary fire)
As a Reaper player, this saddens me the most, because he is already shit rn and this will make him the worst, one of the only things hes good at is busting tanks, now they'll cripple him, my guy needs a buff or a rework asap.
OW tanks that aim diff? Nahhhhh, it helps but those guns have so much spread or the projectiles move so slow that it's better to aim for the upper chest instead of going for headshots. I like playing tank conceptually but I prefer primary fire to be more like Cass/Ash/Widow/Soldier/Illari and there's just not a tank like that.
Playing Winton in solo q right now is more like playing a survivor in Dead by Daylight. Every dps and tank will swap into something that presses W at you until you die.
You should get an Ana duo or Zen. Either they deal with you, or let the support eliminate their teammates. Winston is OP when you play him right.
😂
Loving the beard
As a QP Junkrat main over the years... I'm screwed 😅
I like the damage reduction change personally but the boop change wasnt really needed
I think the number 25% sounds high to people naturally thinking psychology-wise, but it is not, I honestly thought 15% self healing wasn't enough/high at all. Just cause you have 25% headshot resist does not mean you can stand out in the open like a silly fool and take headshots left and right and survive and win. This update helps Tank players who are good at Tank and know what they are doing have a better time. If you play Tank and don't know what you're doing and refuse to learn and improve then blizzard shouldn't even be listening to your complaints you literally need to stop standing out in the open and improve your awareness and game sense, when you do that you'll have a better time as Tank especially after this patch. As a man whose favorite character is Winston and have had games where I never die if nobody swaps to ALL my counters (I can handle a Reaper well alone, dva, etc but once there are over 2 counters it becomes a chore) i am happy for this patch. I personally enjoy the counter pick game I believe you should strive to be an all around player especially with the Tank category, but sometimes I'd rather just be playing my best Tank because it makes my time helping our team win "easier" if I have to switch and counter and I'm not as good with that Tank I gotta really sweat extra to make sure I do good, and if im not doing good I gotta use more inner energy to not rage and get tilted because that always make things worse lol. Hopefully with this patch I can more often stick to the tanks I play the best with now
Now I just need them to un-nerf my boy Hanzo.
If Winston is strong, perhaps we can finally go back to fighting Supports instead of Tanks? Then it becomes about duelling, not bullying (since we have Supports who can fight back).
call it what it is a Dva nerf unfortunately
I was thinking the nerf for doom would be bad with the armor, but Dva it’s gonna do next to nothing then lol
Sorta. As a DVa main (more hours on her than literally any other character), I've been thinking about this a lot. First of all, it's only a nerf to her damage against - for the most part - other tanks. And, generally it's not the best idea to be facing other tanks directly one on one with DVa anyway - you want to take off angles, dive squishies, be in the right place at the right time to eat important damage (either aiding your DPS in winning a duel, or peeling for your supports during a dive), and so on. And, for the non-tanks with armor, they all have multi-hit damage sources, which the armor buffs will effect dramatically.
Which, is something to keep in mind in general: DVa herself has a ton of Armor, and so she'll benefit from this change defensively, too. That might have the effect of smoothing out the experience when your DM resources are lower, allowing you to provide more consistent presence on the battlefield instead of having to run away and hide when your DM is down. Likewise, for the headshot change, while DVa can definitely hide her head hitbox from people better than most other tanks, the targets she can't hide it from are snipers while you're trying to dive them, which are exactly the characters who are hurt most by the headshot damage reduction - so, diving those targets will become a lot better.
Overall, I like these changes for the same reason that I liked the S9 changes: It's really not so obvious how all of this will shake out, and for every nerf I can think of, there's an associated buff in some other area that compensates. All in all, it feels more like power is just being moved around in tank kits rather than being strictly nerfed or buffed. And, also just like the S9 changes, those movements seem to take power out of the really powerful things, and put it into much weaker things, making the game less boom or bust and more consistent.
It's a buff. If you're shooting a full hp tank with armor before you've killed supports/DPS as a dive tank, you're playing the game wrong. Exceptions exist (mauga) but generally most tanks get more value from ignoring the enemy tank and killing everything around them rather than mindlessly pumping DMG into a double pocketed tank.
Man really said this with his CHEST OUT!!!
We got Porsche in overwatch before GTA 6
Frido, you got a bug on you dood!
Good day mate
not getting pushed all over the place by doomfist whoo!
How do you know tho cause…the patch hasn’t came out
How can they say they want interaction if they allow one shots in the game still. I turn the corner and immediately go back to spawn ...
Tanks knocking back tanks imo should get the full effect
This changes everything!!!!!!!
Mans said reaper was OP lol
I like how freedo takes a shot at 6v6 using the zarya v pharah example. But in 5v5 if you swap to dva to deal with phara.. they swap to zarya, keep pharah and you get hard rolled. Also you had an extra tank to help slow the slower damage dealing pharah in 6v6. Nice try freedo.
i just hade a game where a dps player hade 0 kills and 12 deaths at the end of the game demanded 3 people in our team should counter the enemy team and we are the reason we lost the game he swaped like 6 times and never got anything done that happened in plat and i was not even mad i was just confused how delusional people can be
btw everyone but him was atlest positive, he was the first to chat, and this really happened
Personally I think hero swapping should be a pretty ineffective strategy, if only because different heroes require such different skill sets that winning or losing a round can come down to the matchup of hero pools that people are capable of
But I’ve realized over the years that the game I want to play just isn’t the one they’re making lol
mauga HAS armor. 200 armor to be exact. idk why so many people think he doesnt
the tank counter picking problem is blizzards own fault. certain characters like doom, queen, Orisa, Mauga, and hog dont work as tanks so their numbers got juiced up so much they dominate lobbies until they're countered. but the reason they had to be juiced up so much is because blizzard avoids reworking unhealthy heros like Ana, Zen, Sombra, and some of the tanks themselves like Hog and Orisa etc that cause the problem to begin with because of how hard they shutdown other characters.
Ana wasn't a problem in 6v6. Zen was especially with the health buff and brig on the team
The fact that we still have to compare ow 2 to ow 1 I feel like they should've just kept 6v6. We're constantly in this in-between sequel/huge patch state and tank is the best example. There's times when I love 5 v 5 there's times when I miss 6 v 6 but they feel like two different games.
And Ball will still somehow be useless.
especially vs armor targets
he'll be better, but he will get hard countered even more by mauga. Basically if they have mauga now you shouldnt even bother being in his vicinity
He just can’t work in a solo tank environment. They’d have to completely change the core identity of the hero
Sup again Average reaper main here, Reapers Dont just focus the tank down just because its an easy win we do it because its the best course of action if you go after the healer your most likely getting focused by both of them and any good teamate they have. If you go after the dps most of them can either out dps you or out range you with ease unless your ballzdeep into them and then we have the tank who most of the time is pushing your team or out of position so you have support and they dont the only time this isnt a problem is below silver anything above gold reaper is mostly useless because A the tank is way smarter and doesnt do stupid shit and B everyone has the aim and game sense to counter his entire kit.
when is patch coming ?
May 14th
How much things have to change, to remain the same.... We are basically back to square one. Back to GOATS (not the teamcomp, but the mindset behind it).
>Create game that rotates around counterpicks
>You cant balance the game, because counterpick counter picks too much, and its not fun
>You try to balance it by creating champs that counter more variety of heroes, and are basically an amalgamation of some heroes present in the game
>Now no one plays older heroes
>Try to powercreep old heroes to make them viable, and not insta throw the game.
>Now counterpicks dont counter pick, because powercreep happend
>You try to compansate it by reworking Ultis, and how quickly they power up
>Now no one plays champs that have useless ultimates, since they just straight out loose the fights
>Buff the healers to give people more space in a teamfight for composition.
>The problem oscilates even further, since now you win a game only if you have competent healer to carry you. So every game lost is insta flaming the supports.
>Overwatch 2 happens
>The idiots think that 2 less people in a game will make a difference for a supports and dps classes
>it didnt.
>Years pass, and Blizzard does same shit what they were doing way back in 2016, with some little variations.
>Matchmaking resolves around the same grindy ranked system, that straight out robs you of your time, and they have the audacity to call it "more challenging and fun"
>Absolute dogshit battlepasses in the middle, that no one wanted and no one asked for
Not at any point in time in overwatch history, we had real update that facilitates and resolves around making people play better, and rewarding true skill. Not a fucking single one update since 2016. In effect, people play worse than in 4th season of OV1. Matches gravitate towards certain individuals that are under-ranked, because the game needs them to balance out completely brainrot players, that cant fell from rank, since they have 20 thousand games in this exact rank, and MMR wont allow it.
If you have any respect left for yourself, stop playing this game, and forget that it is existing. Especially if you are good player. Blizzard hates people that are better than average, and use them as their pump, to hook up imbeciles since they are willing to spend their money on the game.
New Zealand
The game will never be balanced to a point where counter-picking is not relavent, but that's okay. As long as the devs keep buffing weak heroes and nerfing strong heroes, the meta will always be changing. This keeps the game fresh. Every season is a bit different with different heroes shining, and I love it.
Counter picking can’t get balanced out in the 5v5 format, and the balancing problem doesn’t get solved if you’re just constantly buffing and nerfing characters. That idea is really unfun to the player depending if they are on the receiving end of questionable changes to their favorite character.
6v6 never had this problem when properly balanced. In fact, season 20 something in 2020 was the healthiest Overwatch ever was and probably ever will be.
This change is just another reminder that team 4 doesn’t have a solution to making 5v5 work over 6v6.
Ah yes the constant cycle of Buff Orisa to meta, to Nerf Orisa out of Meta, to then Buff Orisa back into Meta because the Hog/Mauga got overbuffed, rinse and repeat cycle is very fresh. Good times for everyone
as a person who has played competitive games since a child mainly fighting games this sounds like a nightmare. What is wrong with a nuanced gameplay loop to ACTUALLY become the best at your character and not have to worry about the devs taking your character and throwing them in the dumpster every other week sounds like a trash experience and is 100% for the casuals. The fact of the matter is that this isn't a competitive game. its like taking chess and then randomly turning a queen into a knight or a knight into a bishop before the board starts... at that point you're playing a casual game not a competitve one...
Genuine question no sarcasm intended. How is it possible for a game like Overwatch to not having counterpicking as its main framework? Are there games out there in a similar position but without counter picking being a problem?
Conterpicking in Overwatch has always been a thing, in Overwatch 2 it is way more prevalent as there is only one tank who is extremely valuable as they all get their stats super buffed. Since the Tank is so strong you get exponentially more value for denying the tank from doing anything. And in Overwatch one tanks could cover each others weaknesses e.g. Zarya bubbling a hog that got anti naded so he can use take a breather or dva eating the nade all together.
Counteracting will always bee a part of the game and I personally enjoyed it at the level of Overwatch 1. You could still get value with your pick but if you were comfortable with an slightly more optimal pick you could make your comp a little better, in Overwatch 2 it feels mandatory to swap if you want to win
Is it me, or is Fredo starting to look more and more like Les Grossman?
Game sense and strategy feel vastly more satisfying than rapid accurate mouse movement, and relying on the latter lends more easily to toxic elitism, imho. Also herobans ought be contained to tourneys, never Comp.
Thanks for always having our back on the content!
Winston needs his ult reworked compared to other ults that can kill a whole team he basically just knocks people around 😅 ( can't move the dva ult tho). Seems Iike he only gets kills if the team is already low health. I'm not saying it's needs to kill a whole team just some damage would be good. Lol you can't always wait til the enemy team is low health. So most times you end up just knocking some people around and then dying. Lol
As a support-main... i dread this patch and i think i will stop playing until next season 😐
12:48 people might have to actually learn how to play tank? Oh no!!!!!
Nice video
Early for the wrong takes, let's goooo
Cringe voice: _bring back 6v6_
The best thing that they could do to fix the tank role is to add the second tank position back. Limit the main tank role to actual protection tanks, such as Rein, Sigma, Winston, Ramattra. Take the remainder of the "tanks" and put them in a "DPS Tank" role. If they must stick with a 5-man team, remove one of the dps roles. Also... remove Doomfist from the game.
lol two tanks! No thanks 😂
Nobody wants to swap 300 times in game to keep counter picking for 15% on a rank up. Counter picking is TOO effective. Regardless of the 'type of game' ur playing the meta shouldn't be to just counter pick... its not skillful to get slammed by a doom and go sombra. Get slammed by a hog and go ana. Get slammed by Dva and go Zarya. There's 5 people on each team that can just counter pick 1 guy and win because u don't win fights without a tank. The exact reason tank feels more like survive sim rather than a role to enjoy when playing
Im giving it a week and tank will feel like sit again. Cant wait for 6v6 to come back
6v6 is the answer. They should never have strayed from that.
@@huflungpu89 enjoy you 20 minute qp queue
@@Darkaran1 the only reason queue times got that bad was because the playerbase was smaller since it was at that point a 6 year old game still priced at $40 that the devs had abandoned for 2 years. You're being disingenous with queue times arguments and speculating. I would bet in a f2p game with active dev involvement the queue times for finding an extra tank will be barely noticable than current. Hell queue times have noticeably gotten longer without improving match quality now thanks to this wide/narrow bs for matchmaking.
I currently wait 10-20 min for a wide group with my friends (all under plat 1). The difference now is im waiting for a worse game. @Darkaran1
@@SauceSlave I feel like they could at least add it back to the game along with the standard 5v5 as an additional option. I miss it lol
They need to fix widwow give a new secondary and faster grapling hooks
Ohh that would be awesome
if ever a hero ban/ mercy widow and kiri always getting ban. Game is not built right to have some thing added, let alone the balancing in this game.
Am i the only one who's tired of "having to relearn how to play the game" like everyother week...
13:09 man just give me back my 6v6 and dpsdoom bro its like if nintendo busted the door down of your house and took your copy of super smash bros melee and told you "its ok... heres the "updated" version" and give you brawl. This is NOT what I payed for.
More like get good and not rely on the other tank to carry you.
How many more of these changes have to come just to realize 6v6 is the better format.
Bro goin to Blizz hust wont tell us...
There's something wrong with this video...
Make tanks tank instead of being fat dps, that's it
I hope this Midseason patch is great because season 10 has felt like shit. Hope this makes 5v5 feel better to play
I think wrecking ball is still gonna suck. Wrecking balls main problem is his primary guns he just does not do enough damage for his primary fire. They really need to buff that so wrecking ball can actually help get picks.
Besides the primary gun problem, he doesn't work in 5v5
This game is too much about a tank. No matter what situation the tank has the most responsibility to take. Meaning if you're tank does not make the proper swap or play well. It forces the dps and supports to swap. Nerfing more interactions and counters for tanks will on make the harder for every role and increase the already bloated value of the tank. This game is about map control and positioning first. The need to buff every tank so they can walk down main without thought will only lead to worse game design. I think they should tune all the tanks down and reduce their hit boxes so they don't have to be able to shoulder the responsibility in the team fights. A dps and a tank in a 1v1 should be 50/50 fight. Right now if a tank wants to chase a dps/support there is little to do to counter them other than swap. Buffing this mega tank style will only bring more cc/healing into the game. Either that or return to 6v6 where another tank can help distribute the power. Right now if your tank makes one misplay or accidently feeds it causes a total loss to a team fight. Each role should have a even amount of impact that is when the game feels the most balanced.
They nerf racer again and again. Sad game
6:34 Exedra? Accidentally leaking new upcoming heroes are we???? Smh 😒
"Et cetera" as in etc
make every tank like orisa that’s the perfect solution😒😒😒 unkillable walls aren’t healthy for the game. either add high mobility tanks with lower HP but high kill power like doom, JQ, and even zarya or bring back 6v6. the tanks that act much more like DPS heros and are self sufficient are the only tanks that make sense in a 5v5 environment. when you add broken tanks like sigma, orisa, reworked hog, and mauga then the game is a giant slog and is no fun. you can’t make walls fun to play against. but then other characters like winston and rein require way too much help from supports to get anything done. characters specifically designed for 6v6 are weak without a second tank (who would’ve thought). ball and even ramatra feel are better suited for 6v6. if you make ball unkillable that’s gonna aids to play against. so what are the options? only have people play zarya, doom, and JQ? Even tho they fit the format far better than every other tank by being balanced not to strong not too weak you can’t just remove the rest of the tanks even tho i wouldn’t be opposed to only fighting my favorite tanks. the only solution is 6v6. 5v5 will just make either tank extremely weak or extremely broken with very little inbetween. 6v6 splits the role in half allowing for easier balancing. you can lower tank Hp to actually be killable and lower their utility bcz guess what you got a second tank to make up for it. you as the individual become weaker but you have a second person to cover your back.
Ah yes, the oppressive Reaper and Bastion tank busting meta of Season 9/10. Glad these OP characters are being nerfed away /s
I was so impressed with the gameplay at the end thinking "Ooooh A Combo?! That don't happen much in OW2"
Its OW1 Gameplay. :(
bro combos happen all the time in ow2. stop trying to blame the game for your low skill level
@@zkilla2924 OW2 POTGs are like a DPS getting 2 miscellaneous kills, one ult being cancelled, or a maybe 2-3 dying in like a Sigma/Orisa ult. OW1 POTGs were like entire teams (of 6) being wiped by ult combos or a good blade, grav, shatter, visor, noon, etc… the game was just way more lit and sure you can find 5ks in OW2 but it is far, far less common and you know it.
@@GraphiteBlimp27 lmao has notbing to do with the comment. ult combis still happen. team wipes with ults dont happen as often anymore because they added a bunch of escapes, mobility, and invincibility abilities and they nerfed tf out of CC. It has nothing to do with 6v6 and why would you even want that back anyway? you really wanna go back to the days of sitting at a choke until someone gets ult? you guys make no sense. if the game is so bad now quit playing it. but you wont because its in a much better state than it was in OW1 aNd yOu kNoW iT
“They don’t happen much” meaning they do happen just not as much.
Rein/Winston meta is the best for the game. Brawl? Dive? Rush? Easy
Mauga/Orisa is the worst. Just poke and "wait for dps to get headshots" ass comps
Gonna be real just release Overwatch classic ffs. I would lose my mind if they dropped 2016 Game Of The Year
I'm still not over tryhards being so weak now, they report you for calling them & get you suspended. These changes WILL make tryhardw worse. Next Saturday, I just cant be in Open text chat anymore.
added a comment for commentings sake
This game still exists?
The changes make sense but balance will be bad. I hope they will be quick to balance heroes properly.
On paper:
Dva: defense goes slightly down, dmg goes down: Loses from armor but gains a lot from headshots which somewhat compensate it.
Orisa: defense goes slightly down, dmg goes down: Same as Dva.
Ramattra: defense goes down, staff dmg goes down, pummel dmg goes up: Defense goes down a lot. The armor burst what makes Ram functional. Seems like a major nerf.
Rein: defense goes down, dmg goes big up, can't knockback: Gains big in tank duels and have barrier anyways and can't be knocked back now. Big gainz.
Ball: defense goes slightly up, dmg goes down: Headshot change will help him a bit when he is hacked.
Zarya: defense goes up, dmg same: Flat buff
Winston: defense goes up, dmg same, can't knockback: Biggest winner.
Hog: defense goes up, dmg goes down: Wildcard
Sigma: defense goes up, dmg goes up: Winner
Doomfist: defense goes up, dmg for abilities goes up, dmg for primary fire goes down: Winner
JQ: defense goes up, dmg for abilities goes up, dmg for primary fire goes down: Arguably second best after Winton but Rein will block him.
Mauga: defense goes up, dmg goes down: Wildcard
Everyone wants to pop off and own the lobby but the receiving end wants to be able to actually do something about it and not be helpless and they want that in the easiest way possible. Everyone’s main is too weak and everyone else’s is too strong. 6v6 was better no it wasn’t
We need 6v6. Dev team been hustling backwards for almost two years now.
In order to win as tank, not only must you counter pick... But your dps HAS to be better than the other team's