I have done all of this with my father and even when he truly agrees he reverts right back to the easy thinking of hate blame and discrimination This is a man living on a union pension and SSI complaining about socialism
same. sometimes rhetoric doesn't reach them *because it comes from people they just dont listen to (children). i studied medicine and poli sci and my dad still hopped on the Ivermectin train during Covid. anti-mask too
I'm sure he "earned it" while other people are leeching. It's way easier to just believe the lies than it is to address the real underlying issue. It's the fault of capitalism; it must have its sacrifices.
@@OverkillSamurai The hard reality is that the most powerful tool for persuading any person of any thing is _authority,_ backed by _power_ and _hierarchy._ And the person doing the persuading doesn't get to decide what any of those terms mean. The person being persuaded does. That first step, "earning trust," doesn't just mean convincing people that you have good intentions, if means convincing people that there is no _shame_ in accepting help from you, that you have the _power_ to help, and that when you wield your power, you will get the results they want.
I hear you. There's some powerful mechanism in our psyche that allows cognitive dissonance and denial to become so entrenched. Before maga was even a thing, I was dealing with this in my family. Primarily over mental health issues, but also over things that happened in our family. Gaslighting was something I experienced regularly, though I didn't know the term. Because I'm neurodivergent and have some idiosyncratic health issues, this made life difficult at home and at school. Needless to say, I was out as soon as I could see a way. As an adult, through education, counseling, and all sorts of life experience, I discovered that there was definitely family history of mental health issues and some trauma. With the knowledge I gained, I was at least able to get them to acknowledge those things existed and may have impacted how our family functioned/s. However, the river of denial still flows, sometimes in the background, other times overflowing, overwhelming conversations/interactions. It doesn't help that autism spectrum disorders are thrown in the mix. We've got the "everything must be micromanaged/controlled," "not change panic," over obsession, and "missing the forest, trees, and bees for some detritus on the ground." I found that interacting with them is like navigating: an overall map/direction is a must; anticipating obstacles and storms, prepping for those as possible; then, embarking on the adventure, where things can flow smoothly, but inevitably there are situations that can pop up, requiring quick thinking to get through, or the periodic grounding or wreck. I've also realized that this train of baggage I'm driving definitely affects my interactions, sometimes significantly. All that to say, I hope that we can find ways to make progress, gain inroads with these folks in our lives and the others who seem to make up 25-50% of our population. We need to be able to work together to deal with the challenges we're facing with climate, economics, healthcare, and war/peace. Thanks for reading! ✌️😎🍀
@plantyfan I do not know of anyone who gets a pension or SSI who has not paid into it but both are social programs meaning he claims to hate socialism while enjoying the benefits of programs he hates
Empathy is your greatest ally here. I speak as one who was pulled out of conspiracy theories. I wasn't able to climb out until someone was empathetic enough to say to me, "Wow, I understand why you would feel that way." And then he did not try to tell me I was wrong. He just sat with me and listened to my fears as I broke down and cried. I think all beliefs of this sort boil down to fear. Find out what the underlying fear is, and then work with that. While many people became more anti-vax with Covid, I reversed that belief. It can be done. Hang in there, love them, and express your empathy. Don't just feel it, let them know you feel it.
I have a brother that I haven't spoken to since the election because he swallows every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. None of my other siblings are speaking to him either. It's sad, because he's the one out of all of us who actually is college educated and should know better.
As a former 9/11 truther, I can tell you that reaching conspiracy theorists is incredibly difficult. I didn’t have family or close friends to help me escape the "mind prison" I’d built, but for me, it all started with a video of a blacksmith. One of the core claims I believed was "jet fuel can’t melt steel," which is technically true-but steel deforms and loses strength long before it melts. That realization got me questioning things. I began asking, "Who would benefit?" and noticed how the so-called "shadow puppet masters" behind these theories were never supported by evidence. Worse, many of these ideas were rooted in antisemitism or racism. That realization really shook me. I discarded everything I thought I knew and went back to try and make it fit again-because, even then, I wanted the conspiracy to be real. But it wasn’t. It took me 3-4 months of careful deconstruction to untangle my beliefs and leave those theories behind.
I left that silo when they put forward that the puffs of smoke coming from the windows as the building came down, were the detonations of explosives. It was just dumb, anyone can tell that's from the floors collapsing inside. They just didn't have any evidence and just got weirder and weirder.
@@nfboogaard Building 7 collapse was the main reason I got sucked in. With the radio communications "pulling the building". But afterward, it all just seems silly.
Much respect for taking the time to investigate. Too many people get stuck, not wanting to do the work that listening to their doubts would have them do. TBH there was enough dubiousness around the before and after of 9/11 to spark the fires of conspiracy theories. The ineptitude and miscommunication, the cutting slack to allies, the fact that the perpetrators had such a long-term elaborate plan, the conflicting motivations of every person and group caught up in the events, these and more created fertile ground for speculation and misinformation. Not to mention that we were all primed with spy movies/novels, the X-Files, and the emerging well of conspiracy entertainment on the History Channel, etc. I do remember when all that stuff was just in good fun, not taken seriously....sigh....
You had an epiphany while watching the video of a blacksmith. No one could have worked you towards seeing the reality through any attempt to do so. You worked yourself towards seeing the reality with a eureka moment of your own. My experience has always been that I cannot convince someone of what is the reality when they have already convinced themself of what they believe to be the reality. People just don't like being told that they are wrong, regardless of the evidence presented. People will even repeat their beliefs even after they discover that they are wrong because they think that they will look foolish to now admit what is the reality. Actually, the opposite is true. When someone will state that they held a belief in something that was not true and now no longer hold to that belief, this is when they stop looking foolish. For me, in nearly everything, it was when I got tired of being wrong too many times and decided that I was more interested in knowing what is true instead of just my belief as what is true. I started doing my own research that did not rely on a bias confirmation.
I know why Beau gave us Belle , she's smart and reasonable plus it's hard to get mad at a lady being a lady with class. Thanks for all your channels have done , you actually make a difference.
Oof... "Why Beau gave us Belle" really takes away her autonomy. I would suggest wording it more like "I'm glad that Belle stepped into the void left from Beau's departure for us" or something along those lines. "hard to get mad at a lady being a lady with class" I can't explain exactly why or how but this comes across poorly. I'm sorry that I don't have a better suggestion for how to word it.
@AuntieMamies yes she is , and I think it's important to have a sane logical rational lady telling us the truth. America has suffered under the foot of men for far to long. It's just sad that we have people among us that won't even let someone compliment that effort because it's not too their standards. We've got to stop attacking each other, at least the republicans agree on their insanity. We can't even be nice without a that's not good enough.
"Don't worry, we're not here to take your dread and mistrust, we just need you to direct them to the real threats...." Goodness we have work to do on our messaging!
I live in Huntsville Alabama, I'm surrounded by Maga and their ignorance. There is no explaining anything to them, they just talk louder. I think some of them know that they are wrong and will not admit it. These people include my family and some of my friends that I don't even want to talk to anymore.
@@stonedsasquatch It's yet another uphill battle, but normalizing changing your mind and admitting error is crucially important and worthwhile. We do have so many people stuck in beliefs out of pride and specific community social pressure or sense of identity. It's not enough, but I do think we could do better giving people soft landings over here whenever they are otherwise ready to think differently.
I recently visited (just before election) my uncle and his wife in Scottsboro , AL. and they are trumpets. It was hard for me because I am so anti tRump . I just had to bite my tongue and SMH the whole visit😅 His wife is black btw which I truly just don't understand
7:40 my father has become a very hateful person in recent years. Not full on conspiracy theorist but certainly has embraced the maga rhetoric and become almost unrecognizable compared to my childhood. After the floods in NC this year he did a lot of rebuilding and volunteer work and its been amazing how much that has softened his stance on many things.
Sunlight kills the germs.... Problem is, sunlight doesn't just appear in the silo. It's awesome that he's doing better. I hope he reflects on it and remembers what he's learned.
I've come to realize how careful I need to be with my words when having these conversations. Something as simple as leaving words like "you" out of it as much as possible is important. If you're trying to tell someone that the ruling class pushing these conspiracy theories are lying it's better to say something like "they're lying about that" sounds better than "you're being lied to". Because as soon as you throw "you're" in there it feels like an attack and then they shut down and get defensive and you get nowhere
I saw a CNN headline which read ''Farmer who voted for Trumpery hopes he won't do what he promised''. I haven't looked at it. Make it make sense! I can only think that other promises outweighed the one that would have a personal impact.
Trump says whatever whenever. People know that much, but if they want to go with him, they'll sort what he says into stuff they like (and believe he really means) and stuff they don't (and figure he's safely incapable of doing and/or doesn't really mean). What gets me is that so much of what they do sort into the "no need to worry about this being serious" pile is the stuff that (1) he repeats a lot, and (2) other people support him BECAUSE of that. He does not command a voter base that would be collectively happy with any consistent combination of what he actually runs on.
One "street epistemology" tactic that works for me is to not wait to fact check, even something I'm not sure about. The first weird "fact" they mention, I stop them and fact check it together with them. Most beliefs are built on a web of interconnected claims. It might take fact checking many of them before their beliefs change much, but it can change with enough of the web discredited.
How the hell are we supposed to take someone seriously when they're talking about eating the dogs?? Some people are just gone... think of it like a zombie movie and they've been bitten. You might have to leave uncle Steve to his BS and just move on.
Sometimes you gotta trim that family tree. They’re not giving you the unconditional love that children need whether you’re a child or not. Toxic without the conspiracies.
Its a waste of my time trying to drag someone back into reality that has their fingers in their ears, eyes closed, and are yelling NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH.
@@DiggySoze George, you don't have to do this. This advice is for people who want the spend the time and energy engaging and trying to change people's minds. If you don't want to do it, then don't and there's nothing wrong with that. Diggy, it's certainly allowed for people to make fun of and laugh at people caught in the clutches of misinformation. However, if there is someone trying to bring that person back to reality, laughing in their faces will make that person's job a lot harder and less likely to succeed. Not saying you can't do it, just give it a thought if you're going to.
@@sarahwild5088 Seriously! We've got different aptitudes, values, and resources. We don't all need to be doing every worthwhile thing - we can't and we won't - but just leaving other people to do some good work that's just not _your_ work is easy.
My mother is a full-blown MAGA, racist, conspiracy theory nut job. Her husband died of Covid because that ain't real. All four of us have shunned her because she can't stop being evil and hating on our life choices. For me, it is because my wife isn't American enough. 🙄 Anyways, she better learn to pull herself up by her bootstraps because she is going to die alone. Too bad so sad. 🙄
Nope, not going there. Lizard people? Space invaders? these fools are armed to the teeth. Here’s plan “B”, point out to them before all the “woke” and being “politically correct” (their terms not mine) we had words for people with these types of beliefs… idiots, imbeciles, lunatics, moronic, they need to be told to their face that their deeply held beliefs are bullshit, they need to be told this in front of their husbands/ wives, their kids and relatives, and at the job. If it is not corrected we as a society are going to be in for a world of hurt when they act on these beliefs. See references .Jan 5th, pizza gate, etc.
No one wants to be involuntarily educated, even if it's in their own best interests to learn. If they don't know how to educate themselves continuously, that's on them, not you. And promoting critical thinking to a conspiracy consumer is like encouraging healthy diet habits to someone who refuses to use a kitchen To quote Asimov: "I also read voluminously and omnivorously in science and history, which not only made subsequent classwork easier but also early developed in me the habit of self-education. And self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. The only function of a school is to make self-education easier; failing that, it does nothing. People think of education as something that they can finish. And what’s more, when they finish, it’s a rite of passage. You’re finished with school. You’re no more a child, and therefore anything that reminds you of school - reading books, having ideas, asking questions - that’s kid’s stuff. Now you’re an adult, you don’t do that sort of thing any more." The old folks won't be changing. Teaching the young ones how to learn, think, and understand is my focus.
So here's the thing shaming people works. It does not change their views so you may or may not want to use that on your family but what it does do is stop them from talking about those views and spreading them to other people and it stops them from acting on those views. Shame works just not the way we necessarily want it to. But diversity of tactics is a good thing
I always appreciate how you handle these. It helped me make my own debunking podcast (new conspiracy theory just dropped) and an episode about drones came out yesterday.
I wish i could reach everyone in my family. It's rage inducing that they put the lies of strangers on tv and the Internet above other family and friends.
It's frustrating, maddening and sad when family members who you have grown up loving cling to unfounded, non-factual, conspiracy theories and vote against their and your own self interest. Then turn around blame your way of thinking and voting for all the problems they are facing.
Having been called a moron often enough - hi, internet! - I haven't found that it brings me around to someone's POV, no. I'm confident it makes them feel very good, so if THAT's the criterion for the right approach, it's perfect, but that's a controversial condition.
@ I've found that's the only approach that works for me. Please understand, I would never call anyone a moron for disagreeing with me... I can, and often am wrong. For those who show me I'm wrong, I have the greatest respect and appreciation. That is the difference between people like us and the moron class. You can prove without any doubt that a moron has been mislead or misinformed... and they still will refuse to learn or change. I completely agree with Belle, even morons can be reached.. I just don't have the time or patience.
Yup it could have been me writing that letter about my parents, it is frustrating and overwhelming. When I try to discuss it at all my dad shuts down completely and my mom gets defensive, mean, and refuses to engage any further. “Information immune” is the perfect explanation. I will continue to keep trying but I have my doubts I will ever change their minds 😢
My dad started watching Fox in retirement and I watched the change. I fear which way he would've gone if he hadn't passed before Trump. I like to think that as a WWII vet, from an immigrant family fleeing fascism in Italy, he'd be on the right side of history, but many old school white male Catholic conservatives, already often sexist & racist, are Team Mango Mussolini.
Yep. These situations are sad in addition to being scary. Sad because of the position we have to face, choosing between being our genuine selves to everyone and losing people we love. Scary because of how extreme their reaction may be if they learn the truth, up to and including physical harm to ourselves. The bitter irony is that if we choose to drop people because of their extreme beliefs, they accuse us of "making it political", but if THEY choose to drop US for exactly the same reason, "that's different". Edit: And that doesn't just apply to the topic at hand. People have to make choices like that for a variety of factors. People who have married outside their religion or race have dealt with it for eons, as have members of the LGBTQ+ community, and just about anything under the sun.
The question to be asked is "who benefits from YOU believing this". , How many people they can suck down their rabbit hole is more important to them than their actual premise .
It's important when talking about this subject to note that there's a point where you also have to make decisions for your self for your own mental health and personal prosperity. If you are living with people in your life so extreme that you have to hide who you are, that is incredibly unhealthy, and there may be a point where you have to work towards cutting those people out of your own life. When the family is extreme enough to threaten disownership over politics, that is not a loving relationship. Disconnecting from an environment like that can be hard, especially with parents, not just emotionally, but financially. Parents may be a safety net that people aren't in a position to cut away from, but it is important to consider that possibility and work towards having that financial freedom. This doesn't necessarily mean breaking a relationship entirely either. Creating distance and time for personal space can be enough. Moving to another state, even across the country, can give you the time and space you need to be your own person in complete freedom, taking a breath (and holding it!) for diving back into the relationship for visits or long distance conversation. Time and space can take a relationship that is completely untenable and make it amicable.
Good morning Belle 👋🏻👋🏻. So thankful I don’t have to walk any toxic roads at this point in my life. We are all on the same, still sane, page. Heck, even my ex and I agree politically. Yay! Merry Christmas Belle and family 🌟🎄✨
Thank you for helping us reach out to people in difficult interactions once again! Having loved people with cognitive impairments I have found it difficult to talk to conspiracy theorists without treating them like they are also schizophrenics. Your approach points out the important differences. I have found the past 10 years sometimes triggering. God bless all of the hands that provide this loving and supportive service 🙏❤️🙏
I feel for the person who asked for help and wish them good luck in their attempts to try to plant at least a few seeds in the minds of the people they want to reach out to. And thank you Belle, for making a video about this again. Inspired by videos Beau made to explain the process of change of thought, I once wrote something to help me remind the steps to take, since my mind is foggy at times, especially during conversations. I called it the ASBIT plan: Agree, Show, Build, Invite and Teach. Maybe it will help someone else one day.
Good morning! That's definitely a disturbing thought. It still boggles my mind that people can look at the grifter-in-chief and think, "That's my guy." Although for some men I think it's a matter of believing that tfg is someone who's living the life they'd want, flashy, excessive, "a boss," lots of women and money, and doing/saying whatever tf they want whenever. My brother, being the weirdo that he is, just gets a kick out of the chaos that tfg stirs. Something I find less than amusing and not comforting. But people are who they are. Take care, and may your holidays be enjoyable and safe! 🎄🤗🐾🐈⬛
@ - Thank you, but it is not just a simple “he’s my guy.“ It’s a matter of faith for them, they absolutely believe that the Republican party is the godly party, that Trump was appointed by God, and God’s will be done through Trump. So absolutely anything that Trump says or does is justified, sanctified and forgiven by God before whatever even happens because God knows all. So if Trump wants to destroy the country, then it is God‘s will because sinners, “the Democrats and everybody else other than them need to be stopped at all costs.” To me, that is scary as hell! Have a wonderful day Erin! 💙👋🏽🤠💛
My Republican voting sisters haven’t talked to me since I voted for Bernie Sanders and then Hilary Clinton is 2016. It hurts my heart, but what can you do when they are in a cult?
What can you do? Stay away from them. Don't let them back into your life when they inevitably contact you because they will take everything you have and destroy your life if you give them a chance.
One of my friends believes that the dems can control the direction of hurricanes and I was like couldn't trump do that when he was president. My friend said yeah trump could when he is president. So I asked him why trump let the hurricanes hit the country then? He never responded. So I sent him the video with trump and his infamous sharpy. He changed the subject 😅
I find looking for areas to let them educate or convince you also helps a great deal. I had a second amendment friend who was convinced the government was manipulating the market to limit his access to ammo making materials. After listening for a long time, I told him I could totally see why he would get that impression. And that enabled him to step back and admit that it could also just be the government being disorganized. I considered that progress!
Since following Beau I learned the ineffectiveness of defeating an opposition because it will either end in a net loss or a stalemate. Winning their understanding will be much more difficult, but time is on our side. Keeping quiet, observing, letting things play out and let people show you who they are, can sometimes feel like an "active plan"
If the Pope was not a skeptic, he would not be the Pope. Jesuit priests (which current Pope was not) are some of the biggest skeptics I've ever met. But they thrive (I don't understand how) in a church that believes in something that doesn't exist.
There was a time conspiracy theories could be fun exercises to teach how to vet information, I used to listen to them for entertainment, then q came along and ruined the fun.
While I FULLY stand with Belle's advice (it sounds like it draws from expert opinions in reversing brainwashing and cult beliefs), anyone dealing with people like this has to realize that you don't LOSE an argument with someone who doesn't speak your language... Just like communicating with a Spanish speaking individual if you only speak English, the WILL might be there, but they have preconceived notions and beliefs that don't LET them understand. It's not an excuse to give up, but a way of framing the "exercise" from the building blocks up. A little while ago, I was approached by someone in a store looking for help .. He spoke ONLY Spanish and I don't. By gestures and pointing, we slowly communicated... It was crude, but we got the mission accomplished. It took BOTH sides being willing to try. If one side refuses to work together, it would be doomed to failure. You might BOTH speak the same verbal language, but you each have a different understanding of basic build blocks.
I remember how Dawkins "turned" a gravity denier with questions that werent directly about gravity but about magnets. He slowly let the person figure out how magnets work and then apply it to gravity. The person came to his own conclusion and just like that he was "cured" of his delusion. There was no judging...just two guys talking . Always ask questions so the person HAS to come to his own conclusion. And it might even not be the conspiracy you started with....But yes...its a slow process
"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled." Mark Twain
"Information Immune" That is a brutal phrase.
But not inaccurate.
I have to add that one to my repertoire now. I love it.
I commend you, Belle for keeping us informed & NOT inflamed in challenging times like these 💙
Good morning, Donald.
You are so welcome!
I wish more people would hear this channel! We'd have a wiser world!
Good morning 🌞
@MBMCincy63 Good morning MB.
I have done all of this with my father and even when he truly agrees he reverts right back to the easy thinking of hate blame and discrimination
This is a man living on a union pension and SSI complaining about socialism
same. sometimes rhetoric doesn't reach them *because it comes from people they just dont listen to (children). i studied medicine and poli sci and my dad still hopped on the Ivermectin train during Covid. anti-mask too
I'm sure he "earned it" while other people are leeching. It's way easier to just believe the lies than it is to address the real underlying issue. It's the fault of capitalism; it must have its sacrifices.
@@OverkillSamurai The hard reality is that the most powerful tool for persuading any person of any thing is _authority,_ backed by _power_ and _hierarchy._ And the person doing the persuading doesn't get to decide what any of those terms mean. The person being persuaded does.
That first step, "earning trust," doesn't just mean convincing people that you have good intentions, if means convincing people that there is no _shame_ in accepting help from you, that you have the _power_ to help, and that when you wield your power, you will get the results they want.
I hear you. There's some powerful mechanism in our psyche that allows cognitive dissonance and denial to become so entrenched.
Before maga was even a thing, I was dealing with this in my family. Primarily over mental health issues, but also over things that happened in our family. Gaslighting was something I experienced regularly, though I didn't know the term. Because I'm neurodivergent and have some idiosyncratic health issues, this made life difficult at home and at school. Needless to say, I was out as soon as I could see a way.
As an adult, through education, counseling, and all sorts of life experience, I discovered that there was definitely family history of mental health issues and some trauma. With the knowledge I gained, I was at least able to get them to acknowledge those things existed and may have impacted how our family functioned/s. However, the river of denial still flows, sometimes in the background, other times overflowing, overwhelming conversations/interactions.
It doesn't help that autism spectrum disorders are thrown in the mix. We've got the "everything must be micromanaged/controlled," "not change panic," over obsession, and "missing the forest, trees, and bees for some detritus on the ground."
I found that interacting with them is like navigating: an overall map/direction is a must; anticipating obstacles and storms, prepping for those as possible; then, embarking on the adventure, where things can flow smoothly, but inevitably there are situations that can pop up, requiring quick thinking to get through, or the periodic grounding or wreck.
I've also realized that this train of baggage I'm driving definitely affects my interactions, sometimes significantly.
All that to say, I hope that we can find ways to make progress, gain inroads with these folks in our lives and the others who seem to make up 25-50% of our population. We need to be able to work together to deal with the challenges we're facing with climate, economics, healthcare, and war/peace.
Thanks for reading! ✌️😎🍀
@plantyfan I do not know of anyone who gets a pension or SSI who has not paid into it but both are social programs meaning he claims to hate socialism while enjoying the benefits of programs he hates
Working with them to debunk a conspiracy theory they already DON’T believe is a really interesting idea.
This is a cool idea
Thank you, you are doing a great service in promoting critical thinking skills! 😊
War of the Worlds and invading drones go together!
Empathy is your greatest ally here. I speak as one who was pulled out of conspiracy theories. I wasn't able to climb out until someone was empathetic enough to say to me, "Wow, I understand why you would feel that way." And then he did not try to tell me I was wrong. He just sat with me and listened to my fears as I broke down and cried. I think all beliefs of this sort boil down to fear. Find out what the underlying fear is, and then work with that. While many people became more anti-vax with Covid, I reversed that belief. It can be done. Hang in there, love them, and express your empathy. Don't just feel it, let them know you feel it.
Thank you for your courage and sharing this with us.
I'm glad you are better.
You are lucky you had someone who could be that empathetic with you.
I have a brother that I haven't spoken to since the election because he swallows every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. None of my other siblings are speaking to him either. It's sad, because he's the one out of all of us who actually is college educated and should know better.
As a former 9/11 truther, I can tell you that reaching conspiracy theorists is incredibly difficult. I didn’t have family or close friends to help me escape the "mind prison" I’d built, but for me, it all started with a video of a blacksmith. One of the core claims I believed was "jet fuel can’t melt steel," which is technically true-but steel deforms and loses strength long before it melts. That realization got me questioning things.
I began asking, "Who would benefit?" and noticed how the so-called "shadow puppet masters" behind these theories were never supported by evidence. Worse, many of these ideas were rooted in antisemitism or racism. That realization really shook me. I discarded everything I thought I knew and went back to try and make it fit again-because, even then, I wanted the conspiracy to be real. But it wasn’t.
It took me 3-4 months of careful deconstruction to untangle my beliefs and leave those theories behind.
Wow. Good on you! 🫂
I left that silo when they put forward that the puffs of smoke coming from the windows as the building came down, were the detonations of explosives. It was just dumb, anyone can tell that's from the floors collapsing inside. They just didn't have any evidence and just got weirder and weirder.
@@nfboogaard Building 7 collapse was the main reason I got sucked in. With the radio communications "pulling the building".
But afterward, it all just seems silly.
Much respect for taking the time to investigate. Too many people get stuck, not wanting to do the work that listening to their doubts would have them do.
TBH there was enough dubiousness around the before and after of 9/11 to spark the fires of conspiracy theories. The ineptitude and miscommunication, the cutting slack to allies, the fact that the perpetrators had such a long-term elaborate plan, the conflicting motivations of every person and group caught up in the events, these and more created fertile ground for speculation and misinformation.
Not to mention that we were all primed with spy movies/novels, the X-Files, and the emerging well of conspiracy entertainment on the History Channel, etc. I do remember when all that stuff was just in good fun, not taken seriously....sigh....
You had an epiphany while watching the video of a blacksmith. No one could have worked you towards seeing the reality through any attempt to do so. You worked yourself towards seeing the reality with a eureka moment of your own. My experience has always been that I cannot convince someone of what is the reality when they have already convinced themself of what they believe to be the reality. People just don't like being told that they are wrong, regardless of the evidence presented. People will even repeat their beliefs even after they discover that they are wrong because they think that they will look foolish to now admit what is the reality. Actually, the opposite is true. When someone will state that they held a belief in something that was not true and now no longer hold to that belief, this is when they stop looking foolish.
For me, in nearly everything, it was when I got tired of being wrong too many times and decided that I was more interested in knowing what is true instead of just my belief as what is true. I started doing my own research that did not rely on a bias confirmation.
I know why Beau gave us Belle , she's smart and reasonable plus it's hard to get mad at a lady being a lady with class. Thanks for all your channels have done , you actually make a difference.
Oof... "Why Beau gave us Belle" really takes away her autonomy. I would suggest wording it more like "I'm glad that Belle stepped into the void left from Beau's departure for us" or something along those lines. "hard to get mad at a lady being a lady with class" I can't explain exactly why or how but this comes across poorly. I'm sorry that I don't have a better suggestion for how to word it.
@@sarahwild5088 "Belle does great work. Thanks!"
Belle is a gem
@AuntieMamies yes she is , and I think it's important to have a sane logical rational lady telling us the truth. America has suffered under the foot of men for far to long. It's just sad that we have people among us that won't even let someone compliment that effort because it's not too their standards. We've got to stop attacking each other, at least the republicans agree on their insanity. We can't even be nice without a that's not good enough.
@josekelly3565 agreed
The truth is horrible enough.
Amen.
"Don't worry, we're not here to take your dread and mistrust, we just need you to direct them to the real threats...." Goodness we have work to do on our messaging!
Asking open ended questions is actually super effective.
I live in Huntsville Alabama, I'm surrounded by Maga and their ignorance. There is no explaining anything to them, they just talk louder. I think some of them know that they are wrong and will not admit it. These people include my family and some of my friends that I don't even want to talk to anymore.
A good amount of them know they are wrong but conservative pride stops them from admitting it
@@stonedsasquatch It's yet another uphill battle, but normalizing changing your mind and admitting error is crucially important and worthwhile. We do have so many people stuck in beliefs out of pride and specific community social pressure or sense of identity. It's not enough, but I do think we could do better giving people soft landings over here whenever they are otherwise ready to think differently.
I recently visited (just before election) my uncle and his wife in Scottsboro , AL. and they are trumpets. It was hard for me because I am so anti tRump . I just had to bite my tongue and SMH the whole visit😅
His wife is black btw which I truly just don't understand
If he treats his wife as an equal, then he's not totally a write-off. Maybe point him towards truthful news channels.
7:40 my father has become a very hateful person in recent years. Not full on conspiracy theorist but certainly has embraced the maga rhetoric and become almost unrecognizable compared to my childhood. After the floods in NC this year he did a lot of rebuilding and volunteer work and its been amazing how much that has softened his stance on many things.
That's good because a lot of people in NC claim they were abandoned by the government and they seem to have gotten worse.
Sunlight kills the germs.... Problem is, sunlight doesn't just appear in the silo.
It's awesome that he's doing better. I hope he reflects on it and remembers what he's learned.
Belle, you are truly an empathetic and wonderful person. All my best to you , Beau, your kids and your entire team.
I've come to realize how careful I need to be with my words when having these conversations. Something as simple as leaving words like "you" out of it as much as possible is important. If you're trying to tell someone that the ruling class pushing these conspiracy theories are lying it's better to say something like "they're lying about that" sounds better than "you're being lied to". Because as soon as you throw "you're" in there it feels like an attack and then they shut down and get defensive and you get nowhere
I saw a CNN headline which read ''Farmer who voted for Trumpery hopes he won't do what he promised''. I haven't looked at it. Make it make sense! I can only think that other promises outweighed the one that would have a personal impact.
Sometimes..the leaps in logic are profound ?💔💔💔
Trump says whatever whenever. People know that much, but if they want to go with him, they'll sort what he says into stuff they like (and believe he really means) and stuff they don't (and figure he's safely incapable of doing and/or doesn't really mean). What gets me is that so much of what they do sort into the "no need to worry about this being serious" pile is the stuff that (1) he repeats a lot, and (2) other people support him BECAUSE of that. He does not command a voter base that would be collectively happy with any consistent combination of what he actually runs on.
@@jeffengel2607 That's the post-truth contract. And there might be smarter populists coming to exploit the same ways in the future.
One "street epistemology" tactic that works for me is to not wait to fact check, even something I'm not sure about. The first weird "fact" they mention, I stop them and fact check it together with them. Most beliefs are built on a web of interconnected claims. It might take fact checking many of them before their beliefs change much, but it can change with enough of the web discredited.
"You can't reach everybody" really hits it.. Thank you, Belle, for attempting to make the world a better place...
How the hell are we supposed to take someone seriously when they're talking about eating the dogs?? Some people are just gone... think of it like a zombie movie and they've been bitten. You might have to leave uncle Steve to his BS and just move on.
Invite them to dinner but shape the turkey differently??? Then ask if they enjoyed it. 😀
Sometimes you gotta trim that family tree. They’re not giving you the unconditional love that children need whether you’re a child or not. Toxic without the conspiracies.
Advice once summarized for me in this statement: " I know how you feel, I felt the same way, here is what I found."
Its a waste of my time trying to drag someone back into reality that has their fingers in their ears, eyes closed, and are yelling NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH.
So make fun of them for it.
Laugh in their faces, never behind their backs. Tell them in no uncertain terms that they have gone off the deep end.
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye?
Thank you Steam!
@@DiggySoze George, you don't have to do this. This advice is for people who want the spend the time and energy engaging and trying to change people's minds. If you don't want to do it, then don't and there's nothing wrong with that. Diggy, it's certainly allowed for people to make fun of and laugh at people caught in the clutches of misinformation. However, if there is someone trying to bring that person back to reality, laughing in their faces will make that person's job a lot harder and less likely to succeed. Not saying you can't do it, just give it a thought if you're going to.
@@sarahwild5088 Seriously! We've got different aptitudes, values, and resources. We don't all need to be doing every worthwhile thing - we can't and we won't - but just leaving other people to do some good work that's just not _your_ work is easy.
My mother is a full-blown MAGA, racist, conspiracy theory nut job. Her husband died of Covid because that ain't real. All four of us have shunned her because she can't stop being evil and hating on our life choices. For me, it is because my wife isn't American enough. 🙄 Anyways, she better learn to pull herself up by her bootstraps because she is going to die alone. Too bad so sad. 🙄
😢😢So sad.
Sounds like my dad
Nope, not going there. Lizard people? Space invaders? these fools are armed to the teeth. Here’s plan “B”, point out to them before all the “woke” and being “politically correct” (their terms not mine) we had words for people with these types of beliefs… idiots, imbeciles, lunatics, moronic, they need to be told to their face that their deeply held beliefs are bullshit, they need to be told this in front of their husbands/ wives, their kids and relatives, and at the job. If it is not corrected we as a society are going to be in for a world of hurt when they act on these beliefs. See references .Jan 5th, pizza gate, etc.
Guess we’ve all been there with someone in our lives.
Thank you,Belle.😎🇺🇸💙
This is great! Thank you for this!
No one wants to be involuntarily educated, even if it's in their own best interests to learn.
If they don't know how to educate themselves continuously, that's on them, not you.
And promoting critical thinking to a conspiracy consumer is like encouraging healthy diet habits to someone who refuses to use a kitchen
To quote Asimov:
"I also read voluminously and omnivorously in science and history, which not only made subsequent classwork easier but also early developed in me the habit of self-education.
And self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is.
The only function of a school is to make self-education easier; failing that, it does nothing.
People think of education as something that they can finish.
And what’s more, when they finish, it’s a rite of passage. You’re finished with school.
You’re no more a child, and therefore anything that reminds you of school - reading books, having ideas, asking questions - that’s kid’s stuff.
Now you’re an adult, you don’t do that sort of thing any more."
The old folks won't be changing. Teaching the young ones how to learn, think, and understand is my focus.
So here's the thing shaming people works. It does not change their views so you may or may not want to use that on your family but what it does do is stop them from talking about those views and spreading them to other people and it stops them from acting on those views.
Shame works just not the way we necessarily want it to. But diversity of tactics is a good thing
Send them the the Ground News application I guess?
Thank you Belle and Team for the Update, Analysis and non-judgemental View Points
😊
Happy travels, fellow "Roads scholars"! 😉
Morning, Donald!
It's nice to be traveling this Roads with you good Donald!
Happy morning Donald
@@katboss4886 The happiest morning for you, my friend Kat ! 😉🏈😉
Morning 👋🏻
I always appreciate how you handle these. It helped me make my own debunking podcast (new conspiracy theory just dropped) and an episode about drones came out yesterday.
Happy trails fellow travelers! Let's learn something new together today!
Morning, Victoria!
Glad to see you Victoria!
Good morning, Lace
@@donaldwert7137
Good morning also good Donald! I hope you have a wonderful day today!
@@SaberToothBicycle
It's always gives me pleasure to see you here Tim! We ride this Road together!
I wish i could reach everyone in my family. It's rage inducing that they put the lies of strangers on tv and the Internet above other family and friends.
Mornin’ Miss Belle and internet peeps
Good morning.
Shut them out of your life. It's easier than you think.
Thanks.
It's frustrating, maddening and sad when family members who you have grown up loving cling to unfounded, non-factual, conspiracy theories and vote against their and your own self interest. Then turn around blame your way of thinking and voting for all the problems they are facing.
All mind games face 1 against the other scheme
Good morning, Belle and internet peeps from AZ!
Howdy.
I like the lizzard people, they are so cute and funny. Easy to find too since they are often hiding under rocks.
Basically we just need early childhood education degrees if we want to peacefully coexist
Not a bad idea, at least some courses in child psychology. Perhaps that's why a lot of the kids get it.
Read Bonhoeffer's _On Stupidity_ to better understand what you are up against.
Thank you, Belle, for helping in this difficult situation.
Tribalism plays a part in this. With these beliefs they now belong to an active community that constantly reinforces those beliefs.
Soooo ... calling them a moron is not the right approach?
😂😂
Having been called a moron often enough - hi, internet! - I haven't found that it brings me around to someone's POV, no. I'm confident it makes them feel very good, so if THAT's the criterion for the right approach, it's perfect, but that's a controversial condition.
@ I've found that's the only approach that works for me. Please understand, I would never call anyone a moron for disagreeing with me... I can, and often am wrong. For those who show me I'm wrong, I have the greatest respect and appreciation. That is the difference between people like us and the moron class. You can prove without any doubt that a moron has been mislead or misinformed... and they still will refuse to learn or change. I completely agree with Belle, even morons can be reached.. I just don't have the time or patience.
Yup it could have been me writing that letter about my parents, it is frustrating and overwhelming. When I try to discuss it at all my dad shuts down completely and my mom gets defensive, mean, and refuses to engage any further. “Information immune” is the perfect explanation. I will continue to keep trying but I have my doubts I will ever change their minds 😢
My dad started watching Fox in retirement and I watched the change. I fear which way he would've gone if he hadn't passed before Trump. I like to think that as a WWII vet, from an immigrant family fleeing fascism in Italy, he'd be on the right side of history, but many old school white male Catholic conservatives, already often sexist & racist, are Team Mango Mussolini.
That seven-day-creation conspiracy theory has got to be one of the worst.
All Belle's suggested approaches are valid, but it's a tall order.
It's definitely hard. My husband has the patience of monk and there are still times when he just can't deal with it.
Family can challenge us to seize the opportunity to learn how to treat impossible people with compassion.
Yep. These situations are sad in addition to being scary. Sad because of the position we have to face, choosing between being our genuine selves to everyone and losing people we love. Scary because of how extreme their reaction may be if they learn the truth, up to and including physical harm to ourselves. The bitter irony is that if we choose to drop people because of their extreme beliefs, they accuse us of "making it political", but if THEY choose to drop US for exactly the same reason, "that's different".
Edit: And that doesn't just apply to the topic at hand. People have to make choices like that for a variety of factors. People who have married outside their religion or race have dealt with it for eons, as have members of the LGBTQ+ community, and just about anything under the sun.
Bible based "knowledge" always makes me cringe.
@@roadswithbeau " My husband has the patience of monk"
Monk never seemed to patient to me.
Tony Shaloub always played him kinda jittery.
Thanks, Belle!
Good morning Ranch and Road Fam! Hope it's a good day.
Howdy.
Good morning, friendly Donald! Wishing an even better day for you ! 😊😀😉
I hope you have a beautiful day also good Donald!
Morning! Hope you have a wonderful day
@katboss4886 Good morning.
They want to believe and that's hard to change.
Good job Ms. B.
Good morning Internet People. ☕🌹🦄
Yes, and this above all. Do not get angry.If you get mad, the conversation is over.
Thanks, Belle
The question to be asked is "who benefits from YOU believing this". ,
How many people they can suck down their rabbit hole is more important to them than their actual premise .
Its called shift blame and denial
The people who believe all of those things are exhibit A why we need to seriously look at the educational system.
I have been dealing with my ENTIRE red pilled family for years. Im sick of it, they get what they vote for, just now we ALL suffer.
Good Morning Belle and internet Friends 🎉
It's important when talking about this subject to note that there's a point where you also have to make decisions for your self for your own mental health and personal prosperity. If you are living with people in your life so extreme that you have to hide who you are, that is incredibly unhealthy, and there may be a point where you have to work towards cutting those people out of your own life.
When the family is extreme enough to threaten disownership over politics, that is not a loving relationship.
Disconnecting from an environment like that can be hard, especially with parents, not just emotionally, but financially.
Parents may be a safety net that people aren't in a position to cut away from, but it is important to consider that possibility and work towards having that financial freedom.
This doesn't necessarily mean breaking a relationship entirely either. Creating distance and time for personal space can be enough. Moving to another state, even across the country, can give you the time and space you need to be your own person in complete freedom, taking a breath (and holding it!) for diving back into the relationship for visits or long distance conversation. Time and space can take a relationship that is completely untenable and make it amicable.
Good morning Belle 👋🏻👋🏻. So thankful I don’t have to walk any toxic roads at this point in my life. We are all on the same, still sane, page. Heck, even my ex and I agree politically. Yay! Merry Christmas Belle and family 🌟🎄✨
Very good information. Thank you
Thank you, Belle. This helps for a lot of situations.
I just say I'm voting for Jeremy clarckson.
I saw an Ice T interview last night (Jimmy Fallon show) 'that's your story, imma let you tell it'.
So sad. This poor person. Imagine having to keep your political beliefs secret on pain of being disowned by your own parents.
Critical thinking: Never leave home (or turn on a computer) without it! :)
Oh I need this one! Thank you Belle!
Great guidance, Belle. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, Belle!!!
Good morning, thank you.
💙💙🐴🐴
Good morning Ms. Belle and internet folks.
Who put us in a trap house
The conspiracy pipeline IS very much like a trap house. It sucks people in and it's hard to get them out of the conspiracy silo.
I lost my best friend to conspiracy theories. We haven't talked since the plague. I miss that guy.
Thank you for helping us reach out to people in difficult interactions once again! Having loved people with cognitive impairments I have found it difficult to talk to conspiracy theorists without treating them like they are also schizophrenics. Your approach points out the important differences. I have found the past 10 years sometimes triggering. God bless all of the hands that provide this loving and supportive service 🙏❤️🙏
Nope, I'm done. They voted for what's coming. Let them get the full FAFO they voted for.
If they ain't hurtin nobody ...
I feel for the person who asked for help and wish them good luck in their attempts to try to plant at least a few seeds in the minds of the people they want to reach out to.
And thank you Belle, for making a video about this again. Inspired by videos Beau made to explain the process of change of thought, I once wrote something to help me remind the steps to take, since my mind is foggy at times, especially during conversations. I called it the ASBIT plan: Agree, Show, Build, Invite and Teach. Maybe it will help someone else one day.
I love that acronym. Easy to remember: ASBIT! Definitely going to put this in my toolbox! 💚🔧
This reminds me of trying to get through to my brother, that’s a lost cause. Brian would gladly give his life so Trump could live. 😢
Good morning! That's definitely a disturbing thought. It still boggles my mind that people can look at the grifter-in-chief and think, "That's my guy." Although for some men I think it's a matter of believing that tfg is someone who's living the life they'd want, flashy, excessive, "a boss," lots of women and money, and doing/saying whatever tf they want whenever. My brother, being the weirdo that he is, just gets a kick out of the chaos that tfg stirs. Something I find less than amusing and not comforting. But people are who they are.
Take care, and may your holidays be enjoyable and safe! 🎄🤗🐾🐈⬛
@ - Thank you, but it is not just a simple “he’s my guy.“ It’s a matter of faith for them, they absolutely believe that the Republican party is the godly party, that Trump was appointed by God, and God’s will be done through Trump. So absolutely anything that Trump says or does is justified, sanctified and forgiven by God before whatever even happens because God knows all. So if Trump wants to destroy the country, then it is God‘s will because sinners, “the Democrats and everybody else other than them need to be stopped at all costs.” To me, that is scary as hell!
Have a wonderful day Erin! 💙👋🏽🤠💛
My Republican voting sisters haven’t talked to me since I voted for Bernie Sanders and then Hilary Clinton is 2016. It hurts my heart, but what can you do when they are in a cult?
What can you do? Stay away from them. Don't let them back into your life when they inevitably contact you because they will take everything you have and destroy your life if you give them a chance.
Thank you.
One of my friends believes that the dems can control the direction of hurricanes and I was like couldn't trump do that when he was president. My friend said yeah trump could when he is president. So I asked him why trump let the hurricanes hit the country then? He never responded. So I sent him the video with trump and his infamous sharpy. He changed the subject 😅
I find looking for areas to let them educate or convince you also helps a great deal. I had a second amendment friend who was convinced the government was manipulating the market to limit his access to ammo making materials. After listening for a long time, I told him I could totally see why he would get that impression. And that enabled him to step back and admit that it could also just be the government being disorganized. I considered that progress!
Cheers for this, Belle and the team, this is great information and an excellent strategy.
Thank you Belle and Team. This is quite challenging, take care.
Since following Beau I learned the ineffectiveness of defeating an opposition because it will either end in a net loss or a stalemate. Winning their understanding will be much more difficult, but time is on our side.
Keeping quiet, observing, letting things play out and let people show you who they are, can sometimes feel like an "active plan"
Imagine using any of these techniques to convince the Pope that there is no god.
I was literally listening to this with the idea of trying to amend the way I deal with religious people.
You believe the CEO of the oldest &richest franchise on earth doesn't know the secret recipe?
@@UnfollowYourDreams Well, of course there is that. :)
If the Pope was not a skeptic, he would not be the Pope. Jesuit priests (which current Pope was not) are some of the biggest skeptics I've ever met. But they thrive (I don't understand how) in a church that believes in something that doesn't exist.
Great advice Belle 👍, thank you 😊.
There was a time conspiracy theories could be fun exercises to teach how to vet information, I used to listen to them for entertainment, then q came along and ruined the fun.
Thank you for your insights and analysis! It is greatly appreciated!
Yeah cuz no one wants to hear the real truth
While I FULLY stand with Belle's advice (it sounds like it draws from expert opinions in reversing brainwashing and cult beliefs), anyone dealing with people like this has to realize that you don't LOSE an argument with someone who doesn't speak your language... Just like communicating with a Spanish speaking individual if you only speak English, the WILL might be there, but they have preconceived notions and beliefs that don't LET them understand. It's not an excuse to give up, but a way of framing the "exercise" from the building blocks up.
A little while ago, I was approached by someone in a store looking for help .. He spoke ONLY Spanish and I don't. By gestures and pointing, we slowly communicated... It was crude, but we got the mission accomplished. It took BOTH sides being willing to try. If one side refuses to work together, it would be doomed to failure.
You might BOTH speak the same verbal language, but you each have a different understanding of basic build blocks.
Thanks Belle, SUCH good advice! Kind regards!
Thank you. This was a great informational video.
Howdy 👋
Scapegoat to😊
I remember how Dawkins "turned" a gravity denier with questions that werent directly about gravity but about magnets. He slowly let the person figure out how magnets work and then apply it to gravity. The person came to his own conclusion and just like that he was "cured" of his delusion. There was no judging...just two guys talking . Always ask questions so the person HAS to come to his own conclusion. And it might even not be the conspiracy you started with....But yes...its a slow process