Upscaling Retro Games for Streaming | Mini Master Class
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Extended version available exclusively for Channel Members: • Upscaling Retro Games ...
Today we're FINALLY getting to the part 2 of my "Upscaling retro games for streaming" video. This one... turned into a full mini-master class! We're going to talk about cable types (composite vs s-video vs component vs RGB scart) and line doublers vs scalers, Framemeister, OSSC, RetroTINK, all of it! Bookmark this video and come back, you want to make sure all this information sits in!
► PART 1: OBS Studio: Upscaling Retro Games for BEST possible quality on stream (Scale Filtering & Settings) -- • OBS Studio: Upscaling ...
My Life in Gaming: / @mylifeingaming
RetroRGB: www.retrorgb.com/
🎶 Music by Backing Track: backingtrack.gg/
PRODUCT LINKS:
RetroTINK: www.retrotink.com/
OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter): videogameperfection.com/produ...
HD Retrovision Cables (HDRV): www.hdretrovision.com/
HDRetrovision cables on Castlemania Games (affiliate link): castlemaniagames.com/collecti... (Save 10% w/ coupon code EPOSVOX)
(Amazon affiliate link for HDRV cables) geni.us/Umy4q8Z
TIMECODES:
00:00 Intro & Context
01:42 Why is this necessary?
03:45 Cable Choices Matter
08:37 How to view the extended cut
11:00 Scaling hardware & differences
12:41 Scalers vs Line Doublers
16:15 Deinterlacing thoughts
17:46 My top hardware recommendations
28:19 Plug-and-play HDMI solutions
35:30 What to do after digitizing
41:58 Other ways to play your favorite older games
42:00 Backwards compatibility!
43:48 Conclusion
Thanks for watching!
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(Since recording this video, RUclips has broken chapter markers channel-wide for me and I'm still fighting them on fixing it. Here's the timecodes tho:
TIMECODES:
00:00 Intro & Context
01:42 Why is this necessary?
03:45 Cable Choices Matter
08:37 How to view the extended cut
11:00 Scaling hardware & differences
12:41 Scalers vs Line Doublers
16:15 Deinterlacing thoughts
17:46 My top hardware recommendations
28:19 Plug-and-play HDMI solutions
35:30 What to do after digitizing
41:58 Other ways to play your favorite older games
42:00 Backwards compatibility!
43:48 Conclusion
nice shirt Epos
Don't forget that RGB has the JP21 standard as well. It's the Japanese version like SCART but has different pin outs and will not work if you accidentally mix them.
Gamecube games will also have "Progressive Scan" labeled on the back of the case if it's 480P capable. Where the number of players, memory card support, and other labels are etc.
a trick: you can watch movies at kaldrostream. Me and my gf have been using them for watching all kinds of movies during the lockdown.
Lol the Bob gag really got me.
🤣🤣
Amazing roundup of the options. I've been waiting for this. Thorough look at things as always.
This was so freaking great. I'm just beginning the streaming aspect, and have a GameCube and a lot of older Sega systems I want to eventually stream and play. So much of this is overwhelming, but this video went a long way to making so much of it seem very accessible and possible for me to eventually get to for my own setup. Thank you so much!
I just wanted to say thank you for this video, both myself and my partner have started collecting retro games. Myself starting with Wii and PS1, her with her Genesis, Xbox 360 and PS2. Picked up a RetroTINK 2x Mini for my PS1 and it's such a jump over composite.
Seriously, thank you! :)
Excellent video, heaps of useful information! Thank you so much for putting all of this in one place.
I use third party component cable for the original Xbox and PS2. They work great for me. I just made sure they are gold plated cables (usually stated in descriptions of the cables you are purchasing online). On another note, HDTVs react differently when displaying the image of retro consoles due to changing resolutions or some strange refresh rates. For those HDTVs that don't work well with retro consoles, you will definitely need an upscaler. Modern HDTVs have game mode and advanced image settings (which some may have to be disabled as they cause some input delay due to extra image processing). These settings can be researched through a simple google search to see which ones to disable.
Oh and I agree that Pound cables are trash. Great video.
Good video! Myself I'm using an OSSC to some noname capture card that seem to be 60fps in 720-1080p. Using the 1280x960 res as Tryce was talking about and point filtering instead of area in OBS. It gives a really crisp and nice retro stream.
i was searching for this video for hours, few months ago, and it finally poped up in my face, once i stopped looking for it!
Quickly mentioning this, I think fake scanlines look the best when you have one of these scalers hooked up to a VGA CRT and you're just line doubling it. I did that once with my ossc end it was that in that moment when I understood why emulators started including fake scanline options and doing them the way they've always done.
Thanks Try for the 1280x960 tip, I was using that resolution for my streaming overlay already but was following some advice from EposVox about using 1440x960 for perfect 4x scaling. Cool and all but it was way too wide and I was just hiding the overscan. It looks so much better now!
Great overview of options. S-video is indeed a great option, besides those connectors which always seem to get loose over time. I still use S-Video for my saturn because of the high cost of component cables for it, with the most popular option being an $80+ combo genesis cable and adapter.
p.s. - nice shirt. love the contrasting colors, and the way its reminiscent of the neon contrasts in your background. 🔥 setup, as always.
Thanks!
Baaaa, this is so helpful, thank yooooou
Anyone looking into options for Dreamcast consoles, I can't recommend the Beharbros line of products highly enough. They do a damn fine quality job of taking the internal 480p VGA signal the DC is capable of stock and convert to HDMI and the known pixel clock issues with the DC's video output is taken care of. Compared to a cheap off the shelf generic VGA to HDMI converter where the pixel clock issues and aspect ratio may cause issues with some capture cards and TV's. There is the DCHDMI solution but that requires extra soldering work many may not want to employ. Beharbros products are plug and play, no extra cables needed.
Thank you so much for this video really wanna do some ncaa dynasty lets plays
Great video! Trying to get a retro streaming set up started, just concerned about bandwidth at this point. Anyway, thanks again for all the info here, awesome stuff. Disturbing lack of Sega though ;)
Thankfully Sega consoles in general are mostly in-spec and easy to capture, you don’t need specific considerations like with SNES
36:09
Liked solely for Try. And timely too; he mentioned he prefers generic over optimized modes in a recent stream, and here he explains why!
Yep! Very good timing
A bunch of channels I follow are doing guides on this stuff and it's giving me a ton of ideas for a video on emulation upscaling and shaders/filters 🤔👀
The PS2 to HDMI adapter is actually pretty great. It has a good component image and the ps2 slim doesn't need extra power for the adapter. The only con is that it shows black screens on ps1 games
First minute in: oh man I wanted to do this for ages.
Last minute: where are my headache pills. Oh and how to get rid of my retro consoles.
But thanks a lot EposVox this was a wonderful video!
I don't understand. I have prism hd for Pal gamecube and the image on OBS looks pixelated compared to my TV. Aren't they suppose to get the same signal? To make things worst I tested 576 i and it feels better than 480i when it's, actually they're but 480 only changes one side, resized to that format.
Wgat do I do now? 576 works at 25/50 fps instead of 30/60, right?
Does anyone have experience with connecting OSSC to the original Elgato Gapture HD? I want to record video from consoles like SNES and Mega Drive. Thanks
I really would like to see you delve into Retrotink 5x
When trying to record backwards compatible games on my xbox series s, some games give no signal with my capture card and I get a black screen. Is there a fix for this?
Great video! I currently use an Elgato HD60 Pro and I know it can be a little fussy with resolutions. Do you have any recommendations for any scalers/doublers that would work somewhat nicely with it?
I JUST watched your part one yesterday when I was trying to figure out why my SNES through RetroTink 2x PRO through Elgato HD60s didn't look as sharp as I wish it had. Your tips helped, this is a REALLY nice surprise lol.
Do you know if anybody has proper sizing configurations for all systems using the retrotink2xpro + elgato HD60s connection? In your last video you said 2x scaling but I was curious if anyone else had experimented with other sizing's for pixel-perfect resolutions
36:59 words of wisdom right there.
30:30 Derek from the now defunct Classic Game Room Undertow has a GameCube with just the analog AV out.
Heck yeah man, this stuff sustains me! :)
:D
checkerboarding seems to be more common with multi cables. Check S-Video/Composite cables will have checkerboarding on S-Video.
I'm changing my retro canvas size to 960 as soon as Im off work in OBS. Thank you 🙏
I love that when you released this video, RetroTINK are COMPLETELY out of stock ;-;
The new 5X is out of stock, the 2x ones covered here have stock, but the store is on pause until the 27th to give them time to ship everything out. It’s a 2-person team ^^;
In the past 10 years I've heard a lot of RUclipsr's call it a "VHS player" but never a VCR. It gives me a chuckle for some reason. 👴
EDIT: I commented too early, you said VCR also. 👍
hey can u do that usb3hdcap more indepth video u teased in ur original usb3hdcap video? specifically for ossc shenanigans
I'm using SNES -> Svideo -> Retrotink -> HD TV. It looks good if I set the TV's aspect ratio to 4:3 but I thought that the ratio for SNES NTSC was 8:7. Why does 4:3 work for that? The math doesn't check out for me so I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding on my part. I also want to make sure that my brain isn't tricking me by thinking 4:3 looks good but in reality it's actually stretching the image horizontally. Thanks for any help anyone can provide me, and thanks for the detailed video!
FINALLY!!!
:D :D
Curious but have you ever dabbled with the GV USB2 and reviewed one?
I was recommended one a few years back for old console capturing by some speedrunners. Supports S-video and composite, and seems decent from my year of EXP with it. (Although I did not delve into any of the settings, truth be told.)
Just wondering if you have any experience with it and your thoughts? :D
I really enjoyed this video a lot; it really helped me understand what I'm doing when it comes to playing old games. However, I do have a question for you!
If I'm streaming an n64 game via a retrotink mini, into an elgato capture card (lets say the hd60s for example). And I'm viewing/playing the game via the HDMI out on the elgato, directly into my second pc monitor, doesnt the retrotink output a resolution of 720x480? Won't this result in my view of the game being in an incorrect or stretched aspect ratio? Aren't all of these games in 4:3? When the capture card shows this signal on my monitor, is there a way to ensure that what im viewing when I play is in 4:3? Or will the capture card do all of this for me? Does this question make sense? Hahaha
Sometimes it can get stretched - monitors usually have a “force aspect ratio” option in the menus
So many stones turned
I got the Magewell HDMI Pro Capture PCI-e card per your recommendation, but was bummed to find that I can't output my RGB modded SNES Jr. through SCART to OSSC to the Magewell card (flickering issue). If I use a Retrotink 5X instead, will that take care of the flickering issue? If so, I'd be ready to kick my OSSC to the curb.
Hmm that’s odd, it shouldn’t be flickering.
Thus far, the RetroTINK 5X is far more compatible than the OSSC. You might not be able to use the 1440p mode if you have the non-4K Magewell, but the 1200p or normal 1080p modes should work fine
@@EposVox Weird! I wonder if it's because I'm using the 1080p version of the Magewell card? Can't really afford the 4K version and I wasn't interested in capturing above 1080p. Otherwise, I'm using the FirebrandX profile on my OSSC at 4X, so not sure what the deal is.
What do you recommend for deinterlacing 480i games in OBS?
Will this gizmo fix the PS2 sound issues (distortion/crackling) that result from using the Hyperkin HDMI cable and keep the HD picture quality?
It won’t fix the hyperkin specifically but you shouldn’t have any crackling or anything with this
Anybody know if any of these are good for VHS as well?
I'm trying to figure out what the frame dimensions are (like Try is showing at 41:00) to cut off overscan of the 1280x960 signal. I keep eyeballing my CRT for a guess, but it just doesn't seem quite right. Thanks!
He leaves it at 1280x960 and just fits it in the overlay frame based on what should be visible.
@@EposVox Right, but the overlay frame dimensions is what I was wanting to know.
Video chapters didn't work.. unless it's a youtube thing and they take time since this was just uploaded..
It appears that the time codes are missing in the descriptions.
RUclips has broken chapter markers channel-wide. Not sure why the timecodes themselves aren't there, adding them back now.
Odd this just came up as a friend of mine was setting up a retro streaming channel and was talking to me about trying to upscale stuff. I work in AV and our place was scrapping a load of older rackmount Kramer kit - I'd kept aside some stuff for a pet project in our games design course's gaming lounge that I thought might work well with retro consoles - so to test it I lent my friend a Kramer VP-729. He was over the moon and said it kicked shit out of any of the other kit he'd tried so far. Unsurprising as these originally retailed for like £1300 or something.
Anyway it's weird because we could find nearly NOTHING on these devices regarding retro games - despite their resale value on places like ebay being something like £80 for that particular unit, and them having shitloads of features such as 4x switchable combo inputs (video/composite/component), plus 2xVGA, 2xHDMI plus HDMI output with audio embedding/de-embedding, picture-in-picture, rs232 and IP-based control. Same with Extron - both high end brands who just seem marketed to completely different markets (education/business).
Hmmm, looks interesting. I might order one to play around with. Probably not talked about due to the high price (going for $100 on eBay still, and while you could stumble upon one free/dirt cheap from a surplus sale, that's less saturation) which is a risk compared to similarly-priced, purpose-built devices, and lesser-known name.
I might tinker with one. I'd have latency concerns since it's a presentation device, but seems neat.
@@EposVox It's a shame you're not in the UK as I could probs send you one to play with but international postage is bitch right now :(
We have newer units like the VP-773 that have HDbaseT output and I know that's quite low latency, but lacks all those older inputs - looking here it seems the VP-729 may indeed have quite high latency when upscaling CV to 1080p. I do have some older units with CV and S-video in to XGA out, so may try these instead - in the case of the gaming room for work it's all running into a projector, so one of these dedicated upscalers directly into the projector VGA could be the best option - and I can just design a UI for the Extron control system with options for different consoles.
I'm also setting up a new channel where I cover AV tech largely from an education perspective, so will send you the results when I get that done! Also we have a Huddlecam NDI on the way based on your review and probs gonna put them in all our smaller teaching rooms :)
@@EposVox as an update just checked and the older VP-419XL has a max processing latency of 2 frames - so a bit higher than a framemeister apparently, but gonna see if turning off any settings reduces that.
Awesome! Well I ordered a 729 for funsies
@@EposVox Cool! Be interested to see your take on it! I've rescued some other models from the scrap bin now so gonna try and hook up a split signal with a monitor and CRT side by side to see what performs best
Sadly the retrotink mini 2x is Currently out of production due the chip shortage. No ETA 😢
Pretty neat!
*pets emulation tools*
But epos what if i want the game stream have those dang interlace that looked just like on my crt.
Your CRT doesn’t display interlacing artifacts soo
what video capture do you use?
is it a coincidence that you and mvg posted about similar things today
Yes
Man, your new studio updates looks soooooooooooooooooooo much like your old house.
Everything except the ad spot was shot in the old apartment lol
main problem is that external recorders usualy only works with hdmi.
Those carby component cables are discontinued for over a year now unfortunately.
why not talk about the technicals about rgb vs ypbpr or yuv?
OK you mention using the PS3 To stream but do not tackle the problem of HDCP and how you can not turn it off on the PS3.
it's not that hard to dial in pixel perfect sampling with OSSC to anyone watching and concerned.
I think I have scartRGB cable at my dad's place 🤔
Hope you got that big ol glass of water.
Me too
MLIG RGB vids need updating :/
35:08 they're not even component over HDMI?
Nope
How about mclassic upslcaler worth it or not??
Snake oil
@@EposVox ohhh i see thk u 😁
I bought a Rad2X for the Genesis based on the seeming ease of use and various youtube recommendations... aaaaand it doesn't work. Like, at all. I've tried it on three different flat screens and a capture card and it outputs sfa.
So, FYI, mileage will vary on these "easy to use plug and play" solutions, at least the Rad2X. I should've just ponied up extra $ and accepted the inherent headaches of the ossc but I figured go the easy option. Well, the easy option sucks and doesn't work. At this point I'm looking to see when the Analogue MegaSG are going to be back in stock. I've given up on being able to play N64 on a flat screen as a result of this.
That’s rather bizarre. Possible you got a bad one somehow?
OSSC has its own slew of incompatibility issues so it’s not like that’s an easy alternative.
480p from the RAD2X should work on most TVs
I have the rad2x for Nintendo and Sony and they both work as they should. Sounds like you got a bad sample 😞
Such a shame that the Tink5x came out prior to your video. It would've been perfect to cover it since it's probably gonna be THE gold standard for professional streamers.
5X deserves its own video tho ;)
Add on video when you get your hands on a RetroTINK 5x? 😀
This was just a preface ;)
@@EposVox only you do an 45min preface 👍🤣
RF IS KING
It's been 3,000 years 😭
Too long!
Keren
What?
Good
Merci ! huge amount of time saved by compiling all necessary informations into one video. without you, it could take months to figure by ourselves which solution works, and which doesn't. i don't have much funds for nebula and deeper investigations unfortunately.
CRT AV off bem gosto sim TVS 💖👀👁 bonitas até
LED feio ruim AV composite HDMI 💔👎