I have been saying it for the longest time Blizzard does not care about this game anymore. they have a rigged match maker that forces good players down even admitted it in their new patch flats even said "Oh so it does force 50/50 which is what i have been saying for years and it forces decent players to play like gods watched my own games and samitos game and its always the case you get one player who cant even get 5 elims the whole game. So the match maker is garbage,5v5 is garbage the game is losing players like wild fire and the balance is horrible which many pros have said in the past. I know this is a overwatch youtube channel and thats where your money comes from but i'm serious when i say you could literally play any other game and make more money and get more views. overwatch is a dead game now because blizzard won't listen to anything anyone says. 4 of my friends got fed up playing tank this week alone and left the game. i was a wrecking ball main and even i have gaven up because blizzard just wants to push this 5v5 bullshit that no one likes and then force one player to tank all the cool downs and die in 5 seconds honestly blizzard are braindead. pick a better game dude cause overwatch is complete and utter garbage and the community is also garbage and toxic no point even making these videos we all know the game sucks now and blizzard dont care. I know i probably sound toxic as well but its the honest truth i have gaven up on thinking blizzard will do anything to fix this damn game. their balance team is extremely incompetent if you ask me.
Thank you, Spilo, for finally exposing Spilo. He was a huge problem in the community and I'm glad someone as trustworthy as you decided to make a video like this.
"People get in this overwatch mindset and forget everything they learned about life". Let me tell you, I struggle, because I didn't learn how to learn, what you are saying to pay attention to different parts of something, dividing into steps, its common sense, THAT is a whole revelation for me. So even something is common sense, it is still worth being talked about.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but having been coached by big boy Spilo a few times here are my 3 main takeaways on coaching: 1. Most valuable for breaking down your own gameplay via VOD review. I’m not someone who’s good at seeing my own habits and mistakes in real time OR in hindsight so having someone who’s experienced that can see them right away is priceless info. 2. Not as valuable for figuring out how the game works and the best way for YOU to play. So what I mean by this is the best way I’ve learned to play the game and get better is mostly through trial and error and figuring out my OWN playstyle and how my strengths and weaknesses can impact the team, because deep down you’re the best judgement of that. For example, if you’re on Support and you feel like you’re an Awkward damage aficionado and have great mechanics, then maybe you wanna pump out a ton of damage in relation to heals. If you’re someone who’s more conservative and wanna hang back and support your team with more heals and utility, then start doing that and see how it works for you. Typically for most players I don’t think there’s one “correct” way of playing the game, so you gotta play to your strengths and stop caring so much about what other people think. 3. Quit trying to be “good” and start trying to just learn and have fun, REGARDLESS of wins and losses (treat every game and result the same). An open mind with some short term losses pays more long-term dividends than just trying to win win win. You can win a lot when you rinse and repeat the same tips and tricks, but do you REALLY know the game? I had made it to Masters support by (no pun intended) “mastering” one and only one playstyle for both Ana and Zenyatta, but what I noticed is that I began going into every game with a fixed mindset and plateaued very quickly, and I began getting frustrated as to why I wasn’t improving. After that, I basically washed my brain of what I assumed was the “best” way to play those heroes and started experimenting, and now I feel like I’m better than ever. Were there a ton of losses along the way? Sure. But in the long run, I began ranking up again and I’m on the brink of GM. All in all, I think it’s important to understand why you want coaching before you get it. It’s not a one-size-fits-all solution and if you’re going into it for the wrong reasons you’re probably not gonna get much out of it.
It's just like when I grade papers. The overconfident a+ student gets 80% more red lines and nitpicking than Bonehead Billy sitting in the back of the class. Billy needs success stories and mild correction to cave a path forward to learn how to enjoy school, and the tryhard needs positive feedback and pedantic correction to avoid them feeling like they hit a ceiling. Many colleagues over the years often make the mistake thinking that being fair means treating everyone the same. Outside of SVB discord scrims I've never been coached myself, but I have watched alot of them on youtube and the nitpick coaching on silver susan is always a instant gg go next.
I love your coaching vids. It was during an Ana VOD you said, “Solve the problem.” It had to do with positioning. I’m constantly reminding myself to solve the problem of the enemy teams composition to be in the most valuable position I can be as a support.
Spilo please tell me why I'm so addicted to all of your game theory videos. Just have them playing on my car Bluetooth during my work commutes every day
i think OP is mainly just overestimating the level of self awareness the general public possesses. I think if you’re one of the few people who are able to be objective and logical about your gameplay then you’d be completely okay with no coaching.
hard disagree. being logical and objective isn't enough. as a worse player, you simply will not make the same judgments as a better player. a better player will be able to tell you "you were too scared here. you were too slow to push here." etc. it's things you would never figure out as a worse player just from analyzing it objectively, because you lack the perspective that comes from having tried the right things at the right times. you can easily logic yourself into making poor decisions. for example, reaper gets close to you as a hitscan, so you back off. the reaper should win the close range fight all things being equal. that is logical and objective. but then better players told me to not back off from the reaper and just duel him even if he gets close. turns out reaper players have worse mechanics so it works 90% of the time. you'd never figure that out just from thinking about it.
Gaming isnt some weird mystical niche hobby. A coach/teacher to establish good habits is only going to help you just like with literally any skill. This "herp derp coaching is bad" take is weird imo.
30:56 Goes back to the classic Bruce Lee quote: "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times."
I’m a personal trainer and it took me forever to figure this out. I was very strict and only cared about shaping them but most just wanted a good time and nudges to better themselves.
As a muay thai coach I learned early on 'coaching is coaching is coaching' meaning the specifics may change over different industries but the fundamentals apply the same. Each student is different and getting to know them person to person can be super beneficial early on. Great video.
10:10 i never understand this like im literally in fucking gold and even i can watch an owcs match and catch mistakes and missed opportunities and stuff because im not in the game, i have spectator cam, and my adrenaline isn't through the roof. does that mean i can play as good as owcs players? absolutely fucking not. like theres a reason why pro teams will hire coaches even if they themselves are in plat or diamond or something, they aren't just throwing away money for a placebo. it genuinely feels like this person just hates teachers in general like they're holding a grudge against some random college professor or hs math teacher or something. why complain about coaches asking simple questions that the player will know the answer to? thats standard teacher shit. when you come up with the answer yourself, no matter how easy it was, you will ALWAYS retain that information better than someone just telling you. like this is scientifically proven this is why people take notes during lectures just sitting there and listening to someone tell you the right way to do everything wont actually tell you anything. also i love the fact that their reasoning for why coaching doesn't work is directly contradicted by themselves when they say "in a vod review youre not in the game so of course you can come up with the right answer"
Homies in brazilian jiu jitsu tell me I’m “strong” when I submit them and completely downplays all the training I did to develop technique to submit them.
I cannot get enough of your content. It’s clear that you give plenty of thought to the topics you cover and do a wonderful job explaining them. I recently began playing OW and have learned SO MUCH from watching your videos. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
As someone who has to help teach other students in martial arts I will say Cassidy’sGirlfriend has the whole teacher/coach concept in a fundamentally flawed state. According to them we should just throw people into fights because training/drilling in non pressure situations is useless. Also understanding core concepts is different than the execution which is why someone can be a fantastic coach even if their own abilities are worse than the person they are coaching. This is the type of person that thinks they know it all which is why coaches are useless (to them).
@@8lackyj watching the video would tell you the answer, but the redditor that posted the opinion piece said several times that coaching doesn't work since you're not under pressure while being coached. they seemed to think that no skill or element of your gameplay can be improved upon unless you are actively under the pressure of a real game. they used the phrase "under pressure" numerous times in their post, as demonstrated throughout the video.
One of the terms ive heard and like that i feel applies well to coaching in particular. Is "The Spectator Sharingan" you can see and percieve immensely more when youre not under the pressure of play. Hell "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" is the same way and conveys a lot of the same. A lot of what coaches in general provide to a player is a level of clarity and stability. Which is to say not only do you visualize for players what they might not be able to recognize under pressure, you give them a level of reassurance and stability. A 2nd Opinion does a lot for people even when it doesnt nessasarily add anything new. Knowing how to get a player out of their own head is a huge deal. Doesnt nessasarily have anything to do with the skill level or knowledge level, a coach just in general does a lot for the human level of performance at most levels.
This is something many coaches I came across struggled with. Back in OW1, I was one of many volunteers who tried to coach for a PUG group. We had a T500 player, some GM, Masters and Diamonds, then me, who peeked in plat. I learned a lot from one of the masters coaches, he was great at explaining something, and I loved learning from him. Many of the other GM players were good at pointing out in the moment decisions, but didn't have the big picture understanding, nor could they explain their points in different ways. I still game with some of them like once a season, but they helped some of my friends make major improvements.
Unpopular opinion: Unless the coached person has reached its own skill-ceiling and will barely improve on its own in the future or is top 0.1% where the coaching can make the difference between 99.8% and 99.9% perfection, coaching is heavily built arround speeding up the process of improving and skipping steps the person would have to take to become a better player. So yes, commonly the coached person would be able to figure out most of the things by their own, but it would take them time factored (x) in comparison to being coached :) Edit: Even this discussion about coaching was more helpful then for example playing 5 hours due to the insights about how Spilos coachings work.
Makes sense. Most people can get very high elo if they put in the effort, it's just about the time it takes them that either makes it practical or not.
Lmao just imagining top 500 players “thinking more” is hilarious. I mean has anyone ever seen Aspen play the game? That alone right there shows just how instilled the ability is. (No disrespect of course Aspen is obviously great at overwatch and very entertaining)
Every time I watch one of your videos I get a better understanding of learning. You have taught me more about playing my character in fighting games than any character guide could have taught me.
Ive tried to apply my guitar to overwatch, I want to learn a challenging solo, how? I look at each bar and I slowly practice each bar over and over till its muscle memory then try combine all the bars together and practice that. I can now do loads of entire songs without even looking down at my guitar its such muscle memory.
This video makes me think of Carlo Ancelotti, Madrid's coach who has won 5 UCLs and will likely go on to win more. "I think the mistake that new generation coaches make is that they give too much information (. . .). I think old school coaches like me prefer not to give too much information and allow freedom for creativity." - Carlo Ancelotti You gain nothing as a coach when you point out every error and micromanage the player. You only chip away at the player's confidence. Additionally, one thing that Ancelotti does extremely well is making players comfortable and happy. Once they are comfortable they are more willing to listen, learn, and most importantly, play and play well. It sort of ties back to an earlier point you made about the form being a way to cultivate a relationship between coach and player.
i was literally thinking about ancelloti as i heard spilo talk about this lol. I also thought about pep aswell, about how much he cares about small details which obviously has cost him and his teams some important matches.
competitive overwatch sub is a straight cesspool of gaslighting. ego, discrimination based on rank/current skill, and people who dont want you to win in general lol. Saw a post about someone asking how to compensate for Mercy being on their team, fully acknowledging how they want to improve and actively change their opinion of her as a throw pick since people play who they want to. all of that was ignored in an attempt to flamebroil him xD
I dont like how the person used your analogy against you in the post. First and foremost, people who need help on something like driving means they already suck at most aspects of it, how many people who are already decent/good at it would ask for help? I learnt driving 3 years ago, you wanna know what my instructor told me to start with? Focus on gear shifting, doesn't matter if you miss looking at side mirrors, back mirror, turned poorly etc, shift gears first and we built from there to be a decent driver now. (Yes it was done in a private land that had no other cars, but had obstacles, i needed to do those things, but shifting my gear was the most important part of his training at the start). Trying to learn a bunch of things at once is just cramming knowledge and hoping the sponge can absorb it all.
Perfect pitch is theorised to be an adaption to help with communication in humans, it's much more prevalent in languages and cultures which vary the pitch of their voice more when talking to convey different expressions and emotions differently. The current understanding as far as I'm aware is that it is impossible to develop past the age of 3, there are some people who claim to have developed it, but what is more likely is that they have good relative pitch and also have a number of notes memorised in their head, which is possible, you can probably come up with the first note of your favourite song from memory and it be in the correct key. Whether perfect pitch is helpful in music I don't think is up for much debate, it is incredibly helpful and I hear this idea that it can be a hindrance and an annoyance quite a fewoften but of all the people I know who have perfect pitch, they all tell me that it's not annoying in the slightest, why would it be? They've had it all their lives and don't know what not having it feels like in order to compare. Having perfect pitch and learning music is similar to having a photographic memory and learning to draw. The basics are the same, you draw your stick figures, then advanced things are the same, you've developed your own style and you are technically proficient enough to produce that, but the middle part of the learning curve is where the photographic memory would come into play, let's say you get stuck drawing hands, a normal person would have to look up pictures of hands, look at their own hands, look up a tutorial of how to draw a hand, whereas someone with photographic memory has no doubt seen drawings of hands in any and all orientation and so just has to think of their memories. To relate that back to music, you're writing a chord progression and you don't know which chord to go to next, someone without perfect pitch would have to either: listen to music and search for a similar chord progression that they can learn from or experiment with an instrument to see what chords sound good, whereas someone with perfect pitch has a back catalogue in their mind of the chord progressions of every song they've ever listened to with any kind of intent. Once you get to the level after studying music for over a decade these differences shrink however, personally I've been playing music for 13 years now and I can hear what is supposed to be next and then with my knowledge of theory and my relative pitch I can work out what the note I am hearing actually is in order to then play it on whichever instrument I am playing.
as someone who has a learning disability and gifted kid syndrome, I have no clue HOW to study my own gameplay or coach myself. I can't afford a coach so I watch these videos of people coaching others and try to apply that to my gameplay, but it dosn't work and I don't understand. a lot of the time it feels like there just saying the same thing over and over again to every person.
As far as your chess example goes Spilo, to be a world class chess player you basically have to be training from childhood. No one who started playing as an adult has become GM, I don't think anyone has even gotten masters. So it's pretty close to your example of Perfect Pitch (although idk wtf that is).
I'm a plat/diamond player. I hit GM once. Coaching was pretty much useless and I quickly dropped it, it was a non-factor. It was the hard work I put in.
Controversial opinion: VOD reviews are borderline useless in comparison to live coaching. I have noticed with VOD reviews, students often struggle to apply what they learned to their subsequent games. With live coaching, they are ingraining good habits real-time. The difference in rate of improvement is enormous. It's obvious when you think about it: This is how people coach *every* other activity outside of academics. It's only in school where your performance gets critiqued *after* you finish. Anything with a skill component needs to get reviewed real-time.
Personally I think it also might be on a person by person basis. Some people do get better when someone is live coaching them while others just do not. Like for me, I get confused and kind of borderline useless when someone is talking in my ear on what to do in a whole match. I think it's mostly because so many things are happening in a match and having an external voice to pay attention to just do not cut it for me. I thrive more on looking back at my VOD and noticing the mistakes and keeping them in mind so I don't do them again. Kind of limit testing and seeing what works and what does not work with my own independent thinking.
I think 🤔 coaching isn’t that useful. I think trying genuinely to learn for most people is actually your best bet. It’s actually the coaching community as a whole is actually usually the opposite, when faced with problems rather than working through the answers themselves they usually go to someone else and ask for the solution
1 main thing I disagree with, your perception of coach capability. "There's not a single coach that is as capable as their players" sure. Now. But thats being intentionally disingenuous. On average, a majority of coaches were AT ONE POINT just as capable if not more capable than their average player. So in that sense, there is a difference between a diamond peak player coaching people past diamond, and generally the way the make up for that is their actual ability to teach, but, using league as example, there are a bunch of coaches trying to coach "Challenger" players that didn't hit challenger, and a lot of their information is just objectively wrong because of it.
did u see the vid where spilo watched his gm game? that performance now would be around diamond mabye. his peak is 4.2k yes but that performance rigth now would be diamond at best. A lot of coaches have huge egoes because they hit a peak they think is good. They think the fact they are good at the game makes them good at coaching when in reality coaching has just as much to do with communication skills. in fact there are coaches who coach really high teams who are frauds aswell because they talk about killboxes and stacking like they are stuck in 2017. the only reason they are coaching high teams is because they are good at explaining theyr dogshit and they have contacts from for example OWWC
I think it depends on the activity. Most sport coaches respect in the sports I follow were, at best, middling professional level, and many barely even reached the collegiate level. This was also true in the Overwatch League (and current OW esports). Prior experience in playing at a high level can help, but historically high level pro players don't transfer as well to high level coaches. As I said in the video (I think), being a Grandmaster player personally taught me to relate with the grind and some Zen/An micro, but my quality as a coach improved tremendously faster when I put my time into studying the game/learning how to better teach.
@@CoachSpilo I agree that learning how to teach is more important, im just saying that you have to know WHAT to teach and how to apply it, and for a lot of people experience is the best teacher to show them how to APPLY something. Knowing how to do something is much different than application and book style knowledge is historically not even close to good at teaching application compared to personal experience.
League itself is a different example though, as a lot of league "coaches" aren't people who even actually try and coach. They are just random people that scam players for their money by pretending to be coaches, it's almost a plague on the league community. Furthermore, SKT T1 has a coach, SG had a coach. These top teams all eclipse the coach in skill. Yes, most coaches are going to be better than the average player, but that's just how that has to work. Coaches just by nature of knowing the game so well will always be better than their average student cause of the demographic. There's way more people around the gold / plat rank that want coaching to hit new peaks, and these people are always going to be worse than any coach that knows the game even remotely well. Good coaches coach good players. But your average "good" player, will be better than a "good" coach in sheer skill, but again spilo explains this in the video why it's the case. That said, your average player's probably still mechanically better than their coach, again just by the nature of being a coach.
The coach gets the player from theoretically pulling a maneuver off with practice to actually getting that maneuver into the game with the PLAYERS potential, not the coach's. A coach isnt supposed to attempt these things beyond their ability but to know their players ability intimately and give them direction.
Yeah go watch nba and tell me every player that had a long nba career turned out to be a good coach. Hell even nba mvps and HOfers have been shit coaches. Most of the best were nba role players or players that only played college ball and even no college ball at all.
If you believe in Blank Slate-ism (i.e. everyone has the same baseline and ceiling of potential at any pursuit) you should read The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker. It's a pretty thorough debunking. Genetics play a role in almost everything we do, including our interests, our temperament and our innate level of talent at various things. The real debate is how much.... The reddit comment about innate ability is 100% correct, but it's not a simple black-and-white 'have talent or never be good' scenario.
The video shown: ruclips.net/video/OI_3bQ-EWSI/видео.html
I like how you ignore the post from Gniphe 46:21, talking about how hot you are 😂😂😂
Btw I'd rate you 9.5/10 too 💙💙💙
I have been saying it for the longest time Blizzard does not care about this game anymore. they have a rigged match maker that forces good players down even admitted it in their new patch flats even said "Oh so it does force 50/50 which is what i have been saying for years and it forces decent players to play like gods watched my own games and samitos game and its always the case you get one player who cant even get 5 elims the whole game. So the match maker is garbage,5v5 is garbage the game is losing players like wild fire and the balance is horrible which many pros have said in the past. I know this is a overwatch youtube channel and thats where your money comes from but i'm serious when i say you could literally play any other game and make more money and get more views. overwatch is a dead game now because blizzard won't listen to anything anyone says. 4 of my friends got fed up playing tank this week alone and left the game. i was a wrecking ball main and even i have gaven up because blizzard just wants to push this 5v5 bullshit that no one likes and then force one player to tank all the cool downs and die in 5 seconds honestly blizzard are braindead. pick a better game dude cause overwatch is complete and utter garbage and the community is also garbage and toxic no point even making these videos we all know the game sucks now and blizzard dont care. I know i probably sound toxic as well but its the honest truth i have gaven up on thinking blizzard will do anything to fix this damn game. their balance team is extremely incompetent if you ask me.
Thank you, Spilo, for finally exposing Spilo. He was a huge problem in the community and I'm glad someone as trustworthy as you decided to make a video like this.
Yeah had to be dealt with
Well that’s dealt with.
*_He might’ve been a wizard…._*
"People get in this overwatch mindset and forget everything they learned about life". Let me tell you, I struggle, because I didn't learn how to learn, what you are saying to pay attention to different parts of something, dividing into steps, its common sense, THAT is a whole revelation for me. So even something is common sense, it is still worth being talked about.
Bro thinks he’s a coach
he's obsiosly a player
💀
making appointment to go see doctor about my Tracer coaching video addiction...
Same tbh
Haven’t watched the vid yet but having been coached by big boy Spilo a few times here are my 3 main takeaways on coaching:
1. Most valuable for breaking down your own gameplay via VOD review. I’m not someone who’s good at seeing my own habits and mistakes in real time OR in hindsight so having someone who’s experienced that can see them right away is priceless info.
2. Not as valuable for figuring out how the game works and the best way for YOU to play. So what I mean by this is the best way I’ve learned to play the game and get better is mostly through trial and error and figuring out my OWN playstyle and how my strengths and weaknesses can impact the team, because deep down you’re the best judgement of that. For example, if you’re on Support and you feel like you’re an Awkward damage aficionado and have great mechanics, then maybe you wanna pump out a ton of damage in relation to heals. If you’re someone who’s more conservative and wanna hang back and support your team with more heals and utility, then start doing that and see how it works for you. Typically for most players I don’t think there’s one “correct” way of playing the game, so you gotta play to your strengths and stop caring so much about what other people think.
3. Quit trying to be “good” and start trying to just learn and have fun, REGARDLESS of wins and losses (treat every game and result the same). An open mind with some short term losses pays more long-term dividends than just trying to win win win. You can win a lot when you rinse and repeat the same tips and tricks, but do you REALLY know the game? I had made it to Masters support by (no pun intended) “mastering” one and only one playstyle for both Ana and Zenyatta, but what I noticed is that I began going into every game with a fixed mindset and plateaued very quickly, and I began getting frustrated as to why I wasn’t improving. After that, I basically washed my brain of what I assumed was the “best” way to play those heroes and started experimenting, and now I feel like I’m better than ever. Were there a ton of losses along the way? Sure. But in the long run, I began ranking up again and I’m on the brink of GM.
All in all, I think it’s important to understand why you want coaching before you get it. It’s not a one-size-fits-all solution and if you’re going into it for the wrong reasons you’re probably not gonna get much out of it.
Exactly!
Very valuable perspective imo
People legitimately do not understand what the concept of 'coaching' is, what its meant to do and who is good/isn't good at it.
I've gotten coaching from both you and Spilo! Both with great pointers.
@@yoku_UwU Always happy to help!
Abby one of my goats 😤
@@natedavis2944 you're so real for that
@@natedavis2944💯💯💯‼️‼️‼️
We need a reaction of Spilo reacting to Spilo exposing Spilo.
It's just like when I grade papers. The overconfident a+ student gets 80% more red lines and nitpicking than Bonehead Billy sitting in the back of the class. Billy needs success stories and mild correction to cave a path forward to learn how to enjoy school, and the tryhard needs positive feedback and pedantic correction to avoid them feeling like they hit a ceiling.
Many colleagues over the years often make the mistake thinking that being fair means treating everyone the same.
Outside of SVB discord scrims I've never been coached myself, but I have watched alot of them on youtube and the nitpick coaching on silver susan is always a instant gg go next.
I love your coaching vids. It was during an Ana VOD you said, “Solve the problem.” It had to do with positioning. I’m constantly reminding myself to solve the problem of the enemy teams composition to be in the most valuable position I can be as a support.
Spilo please tell me why I'm so addicted to all of your game theory videos. Just have them playing on my car Bluetooth during my work commutes every day
i think OP is mainly just overestimating the level of self awareness the general public possesses. I think if you’re one of the few people who are able to be objective and logical about your gameplay then you’d be completely okay with no coaching.
hard disagree. being logical and objective isn't enough. as a worse player, you simply will not make the same judgments as a better player. a better player will be able to tell you "you were too scared here. you were too slow to push here." etc. it's things you would never figure out as a worse player just from analyzing it objectively, because you lack the perspective that comes from having tried the right things at the right times. you can easily logic yourself into making poor decisions. for example, reaper gets close to you as a hitscan, so you back off. the reaper should win the close range fight all things being equal. that is logical and objective. but then better players told me to not back off from the reaper and just duel him even if he gets close. turns out reaper players have worse mechanics so it works 90% of the time. you'd never figure that out just from thinking about it.
Gaming isnt some weird mystical niche hobby. A coach/teacher to establish good habits is only going to help you just like with literally any skill. This "herp derp coaching is bad" take is weird imo.
coach thinks he's a bro
30:56 Goes back to the classic Bruce Lee quote: "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times."
I’m a personal trainer and it took me forever to figure this out. I was very strict and only cared about shaping them but most just wanted a good time and nudges to better themselves.
As a muay thai coach I learned early on 'coaching is coaching is coaching' meaning the specifics may change over different industries but the fundamentals apply the same. Each student is different and getting to know them person to person can be super beneficial early on. Great video.
10:10 i never understand this like im literally in fucking gold and even i can watch an owcs match and catch mistakes and missed opportunities and stuff because im not in the game, i have spectator cam, and my adrenaline isn't through the roof. does that mean i can play as good as owcs players? absolutely fucking not. like theres a reason why pro teams will hire coaches even if they themselves are in plat or diamond or something, they aren't just throwing away money for a placebo. it genuinely feels like this person just hates teachers in general like they're holding a grudge against some random college professor or hs math teacher or something. why complain about coaches asking simple questions that the player will know the answer to? thats standard teacher shit. when you come up with the answer yourself, no matter how easy it was, you will ALWAYS retain that information better than someone just telling you. like this is scientifically proven this is why people take notes during lectures just sitting there and listening to someone tell you the right way to do everything wont actually tell you anything. also i love the fact that their reasoning for why coaching doesn't work is directly contradicted by themselves when they say "in a vod review youre not in the game so of course you can come up with the right answer"
Homies in brazilian jiu jitsu tell me I’m “strong” when I submit them and completely downplays all the training I did to develop technique to submit them.
I cannot get enough of your content. It’s clear that you give plenty of thought to the topics you cover and do a wonderful job explaining them. I recently began playing OW and have learned SO MUCH from watching your videos. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
As someone who has to help teach other students in martial arts I will say Cassidy’sGirlfriend has the whole teacher/coach concept in a fundamentally flawed state. According to them we should just throw people into fights because training/drilling in non pressure situations is useless.
Also understanding core concepts is different than the execution which is why someone can be a fantastic coach even if their own abilities are worse than the person they are coaching.
This is the type of person that thinks they know it all which is why coaches are useless (to them).
This guy doesn't need a coach he needs a psychologist, I've never seen someone be under that much pressure in a game lmao
Spilo??
@@8lackyj Did you even watched the video lol
@@Lordin_ are you going to answer the question? If not then your response is unnecessary and stupid. It was a clarifier
@@8lackyj bro you're slow af
@@8lackyj watching the video would tell you the answer, but the redditor that posted the opinion piece said several times that coaching doesn't work since you're not under pressure while being coached. they seemed to think that no skill or element of your gameplay can be improved upon unless you are actively under the pressure of a real game. they used the phrase "under pressure" numerous times in their post, as demonstrated throughout the video.
One of the terms ive heard and like that i feel applies well to coaching in particular.
Is "The Spectator Sharingan" you can see and percieve immensely more when youre not under the pressure of play.
Hell "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" is the same way and conveys a lot of the same.
A lot of what coaches in general provide to a player is a level of clarity and stability.
Which is to say not only do you visualize for players what they might not be able to recognize under pressure, you give them a level of reassurance and stability.
A 2nd Opinion does a lot for people even when it doesnt nessasarily add anything new. Knowing how to get a player out of their own head is a huge deal.
Doesnt nessasarily have anything to do with the skill level or knowledge level, a coach just in general does a lot for the human level of performance at most levels.
This is something many coaches I came across struggled with. Back in OW1, I was one of many volunteers who tried to coach for a PUG group. We had a T500 player, some GM, Masters and Diamonds, then me, who peeked in plat. I learned a lot from one of the masters coaches, he was great at explaining something, and I loved learning from him. Many of the other GM players were good at pointing out in the moment decisions, but didn't have the big picture understanding, nor could they explain their points in different ways. I still game with some of them like once a season, but they helped some of my friends make major improvements.
Unpopular opinion:
Unless the coached person has reached its own skill-ceiling and will barely improve on its own in the future or is top 0.1% where the coaching can make the difference between 99.8% and 99.9% perfection, coaching is heavily built arround speeding up the process of improving and skipping steps the person would have to take to become a better player. So yes, commonly the coached person would be able to figure out most of the things by their own, but it would take them time factored (x) in comparison to being coached :)
Edit: Even this discussion about coaching was more helpful then for example playing 5 hours due to the insights about how Spilos coachings work.
Makes sense. Most people can get very high elo if they put in the effort, it's just about the time it takes them that either makes it practical or not.
Lmao just imagining top 500 players “thinking more” is hilarious. I mean has anyone ever seen Aspen play the game? That alone right there shows just how instilled the ability is. (No disrespect of course Aspen is obviously great at overwatch and very entertaining)
i also immediately thought of her when spilo was talking about that loll
Every time I watch one of your videos I get a better understanding of learning. You have taught me more about playing my character in fighting games than any character guide could have taught me.
Ive tried to apply my guitar to overwatch, I want to learn a challenging solo, how? I look at each bar and I slowly practice each bar over and over till its muscle memory then try combine all the bars together and practice that. I can now do loads of entire songs without even looking down at my guitar its such muscle memory.
blud thinks he's an owl coach
i don't think he coaches owl, mostly individuals who want an outside perspective on what steps they can take to improve
@@JeremiahNunn well no one coaches owl since the league is dead
This video makes me think of Carlo Ancelotti, Madrid's coach who has won 5 UCLs and will likely go on to win more.
"I think the mistake that new generation coaches make is that they give too much information (. . .). I think old school coaches like me prefer not to give too much information and allow freedom for creativity." - Carlo Ancelotti
You gain nothing as a coach when you point out every error and micromanage the player. You only chip away at the player's confidence.
Additionally, one thing that Ancelotti does extremely well is making players comfortable and happy. Once they are comfortable they are more willing to listen, learn, and most importantly, play and play well. It sort of ties back to an earlier point you made about the form being a way to cultivate a relationship between coach and player.
i was literally thinking about ancelloti as i heard spilo talk about this lol. I also thought about pep aswell, about how much he cares about small details which obviously has cost him and his teams some important matches.
OP needs to read The Inner Game of Tennis.
OP would just make another post on r/competitivetennis.
competitive overwatch sub is a straight cesspool of gaslighting. ego, discrimination based on rank/current skill, and people who dont want you to win in general lol. Saw a post about someone asking how to compensate for Mercy being on their team, fully acknowledging how they want to improve and actively change their opinion of her as a throw pick since people play who they want to. all of that was ignored in an attempt to flamebroil him xD
When I started listening to spilo I was gm 3 and after taking his advice I finally hit gold 1.
I dont like how the person used your analogy against you in the post.
First and foremost, people who need help on something like driving means they already suck at most aspects of it, how many people who are already decent/good at it would ask for help?
I learnt driving 3 years ago, you wanna know what my instructor told me to start with? Focus on gear shifting, doesn't matter if you miss looking at side mirrors, back mirror, turned poorly etc, shift gears first and we built from there to be a decent driver now. (Yes it was done in a private land that had no other cars, but had obstacles, i needed to do those things, but shifting my gear was the most important part of his training at the start).
Trying to learn a bunch of things at once is just cramming knowledge and hoping the sponge can absorb it all.
Perfect pitch is theorised to be an adaption to help with communication in humans, it's much more prevalent in languages and cultures which vary the pitch of their voice more when talking to convey different expressions and emotions differently. The current understanding as far as I'm aware is that it is impossible to develop past the age of 3, there are some people who claim to have developed it, but what is more likely is that they have good relative pitch and also have a number of notes memorised in their head, which is possible, you can probably come up with the first note of your favourite song from memory and it be in the correct key.
Whether perfect pitch is helpful in music I don't think is up for much debate, it is incredibly helpful and I hear this idea that it can be a hindrance and an annoyance quite a fewoften but of all the people I know who have perfect pitch, they all tell me that it's not annoying in the slightest, why would it be? They've had it all their lives and don't know what not having it feels like in order to compare.
Having perfect pitch and learning music is similar to having a photographic memory and learning to draw. The basics are the same, you draw your stick figures, then advanced things are the same, you've developed your own style and you are technically proficient enough to produce that, but the middle part of the learning curve is where the photographic memory would come into play, let's say you get stuck drawing hands, a normal person would have to look up pictures of hands, look at their own hands, look up a tutorial of how to draw a hand, whereas someone with photographic memory has no doubt seen drawings of hands in any and all orientation and so just has to think of their memories. To relate that back to music, you're writing a chord progression and you don't know which chord to go to next, someone without perfect pitch would have to either: listen to music and search for a similar chord progression that they can learn from or experiment with an instrument to see what chords sound good, whereas someone with perfect pitch has a back catalogue in their mind of the chord progressions of every song they've ever listened to with any kind of intent. Once you get to the level after studying music for over a decade these differences shrink however, personally I've been playing music for 13 years now and I can hear what is supposed to be next and then with my knowledge of theory and my relative pitch I can work out what the note I am hearing actually is in order to then play it on whichever instrument I am playing.
Love talks about learning, and using the post as a jumping off point into more interesting topics!
as someone who has a learning disability and gifted kid syndrome, I have no clue HOW to study my own gameplay or coach myself. I can't afford a coach so I watch these videos of people coaching others and try to apply that to my gameplay, but it dosn't work and I don't understand. a lot of the time it feels like there just saying the same thing over and over again to every person.
Also what is live coaching? Like you stream and the coach watches your stream then you guys are on a discord?
As far as your chess example goes Spilo, to be a world class chess player you basically have to be training from childhood. No one who started playing as an adult has become GM, I don't think anyone has even gotten masters. So it's pretty close to your example of Perfect Pitch (although idk wtf that is).
Idk about you guys but I love all of his videos. Very educational or really really funny💙💙💙
I'm a plat/diamond player. I hit GM once. Coaching was pretty much useless and I quickly dropped it, it was a non-factor. It was the hard work I put in.
doesnt make sense that im still silver after watching spilo gotta be tr4sh coaching
Why would flats do this
RUclips should add a double like button
I was there. I learned a lot from that stream.
I wish you were on valorant and not overwatch bro, goat coach
LOTRO MENTIONED
I’m loving these corny new thumbnails
Aw shit I got coaching next week i been scammed ;)
You are the realest person in the scene. You, flats, eskay and samito running this town. Desu senpai.
Bro thinks he’s a coacg
Controversial opinion: VOD reviews are borderline useless in comparison to live coaching. I have noticed with VOD reviews, students often struggle to apply what they learned to their subsequent games. With live coaching, they are ingraining good habits real-time. The difference in rate of improvement is enormous. It's obvious when you think about it: This is how people coach *every* other activity outside of academics. It's only in school where your performance gets critiqued *after* you finish. Anything with a skill component needs to get reviewed real-time.
Personally I think it also might be on a person by person basis. Some people do get better when someone is live coaching them while others just do not. Like for me, I get confused and kind of borderline useless when someone is talking in my ear on what to do in a whole match. I think it's mostly because so many things are happening in a match and having an external voice to pay attention to just do not cut it for me. I thrive more on looking back at my VOD and noticing the mistakes and keeping them in mind so I don't do them again. Kind of limit testing and seeing what works and what does not work with my own independent thinking.
Live coaching is fucking amazing. I love awkward's live coaching
A Gm player told me ur a fraud💀
i mean i’ve easily hit masters from spilo alone and i rarely play ow maybe a couple games a month
@@swagcat51did you pay for his coaching?
@@fableOW nah just implemented his vod reviews from other players
@@swagcat51 yea im about to hit masters and id say he has helped tons
can't coach a fake game.
Overwatch Coaching is USELESS
because it doesn't matter how good you get at the game when you're hard queuing ranked and having ZERO fun.
I think 🤔 coaching isn’t that useful. I think trying genuinely to learn for most people is actually your best bet. It’s actually the coaching community as a whole is actually usually the opposite, when faced with problems rather than working through the answers themselves they usually go to someone else and ask for the solution
crazy how I am first somehow
1 main thing I disagree with, your perception of coach capability. "There's not a single coach that is as capable as their players" sure. Now. But thats being intentionally disingenuous. On average, a majority of coaches were AT ONE POINT just as capable if not more capable than their average player. So in that sense, there is a difference between a diamond peak player coaching people past diamond, and generally the way the make up for that is their actual ability to teach, but, using league as example, there are a bunch of coaches trying to coach "Challenger" players that didn't hit challenger, and a lot of their information is just objectively wrong because of it.
did u see the vid where spilo watched his gm game? that performance now would be around diamond mabye. his peak is 4.2k yes but that performance rigth now would be diamond at best. A lot of coaches have huge egoes because they hit a peak they think is good. They think the fact they are good at the game makes them good at coaching when in reality coaching has just as much to do with communication skills. in fact there are coaches who coach really high teams who are frauds aswell because they talk about killboxes and stacking like they are stuck in 2017. the only reason they are coaching high teams is because they are good at explaining theyr dogshit and they have contacts from for example OWWC
I think it depends on the activity. Most sport coaches respect in the sports I follow were, at best, middling professional level, and many barely even reached the collegiate level. This was also true in the Overwatch League (and current OW esports). Prior experience in playing at a high level can help, but historically high level pro players don't transfer as well to high level coaches.
As I said in the video (I think), being a Grandmaster player personally taught me to relate with the grind and some Zen/An micro, but my quality as a coach improved tremendously faster when I put my time into studying the game/learning how to better teach.
@@CoachSpilo I agree that learning how to teach is more important, im just saying that you have to know WHAT to teach and how to apply it, and for a lot of people experience is the best teacher to show them how to APPLY something. Knowing how to do something is much different than application and book style knowledge is historically not even close to good at teaching application compared to personal experience.
League itself is a different example though, as a lot of league "coaches" aren't people who even actually try and coach. They are just random people that scam players for their money by pretending to be coaches, it's almost a plague on the league community. Furthermore, SKT T1 has a coach, SG had a coach. These top teams all eclipse the coach in skill. Yes, most coaches are going to be better than the average player, but that's just how that has to work. Coaches just by nature of knowing the game so well will always be better than their average student cause of the demographic. There's way more people around the gold / plat rank that want coaching to hit new peaks, and these people are always going to be worse than any coach that knows the game even remotely well. Good coaches coach good players. But your average "good" player, will be better than a "good" coach in sheer skill, but again spilo explains this in the video why it's the case.
That said, your average player's probably still mechanically better than their coach, again just by the nature of being a coach.
The coach gets the player from theoretically pulling a maneuver off with practice to actually getting that maneuver into the game with the PLAYERS potential, not the coach's. A coach isnt supposed to attempt these things beyond their ability but to know their players ability intimately and give them direction.
Its like listening to Jayne back in the days, dude touched GM for 2 season where he played 800 each and became a certified couch xddd
800 matches *
It sounds like you are scamming people
Why?
For one thing, you need to be good to be a coach 😉
you need to be good at coaching to be a good coach
Yeah go watch nba and tell me every player that had a long nba career turned out to be a good coach. Hell even nba mvps and HOfers have been shit coaches. Most of the best were nba role players or players that only played college ball and even no college ball at all.
If you believe in Blank Slate-ism (i.e. everyone has the same baseline and ceiling of potential at any pursuit) you should read The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker. It's a pretty thorough debunking. Genetics play a role in almost everything we do, including our interests, our temperament and our innate level of talent at various things. The real debate is how much....
The reddit comment about innate ability is 100% correct, but it's not a simple black-and-white 'have talent or never be good' scenario.