Building a Corner Shower Floor From Scratch - With Shower Pan Membrane
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2020
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Some construction projects are more difficult than others. Some, like building a shower floor from bricks, sand and cement, seem harder than they really are. Don't get me wrong, shower floors are not on the list of projects that true beginners should try, but if you are handy and have some experience with more challenging projects, building your own shower floor may be something you want to consider. You can absolutely save yourself some money and increase your confidence level a ton by tackling a shower floor and successfully completing it. The key is developing some basic skills of working with hand trowels and a sand and portland cement mixture called "dry pack". 
Хобби
This blow's away any red guard
Thank you for this grandpa! love you!!
Mr. Dobbs thank you for the videos. I've built my first shower because of you. A few bumps in the process but I got through them. Someone said I was way overdoing the job (he does showers daily), and I said great thank you! Thanks for passing the knowledge!
Thanks so much for your comment, Michael, and I’m glad you made it through your first shower! I can assure you your second shower will be easier than the first! Pretty nice response to the guy who thought you were overdoing it on your shower. Congratulations on taking on a challenge that most people would not be able to handle! Glad the video was helpful! Thanks for watching!
Another great easy to follow video. Thank you!
Thanks so much for your comment, Richard! I appreciate you watching!
I’m in the planning stage of ripping out our builder’s grade fiberglass shower stall so I’m searching for ideas and methods on building and tiling our new one. Thanks Rusty for sharing your skills in this video. It’s about the best one I’ve seen so far. I believe I can do this!
Good to hear, Ron, and with your great attitude alone, you should be able to do this! I have another two part video series from a couple of years back that is an earlier version of this process on a shower without the corner seat that you may also want to check out. Same basic info with a few tweaks because of the design differences. I always remind people that their second shower will always be better than their first. 😀 This is a process, just like any, that you get better at the more you do it. The real trick is in learning to work with the dry pack and in handling the trowels. But you can certainly save yourself some money and get a lot of satisfaction from doing this. Good luck!
That was educational and awesome🙏thank you Mr.Dobbs.
Thanks so much, Ms. Reyes!
This video tutorial is amazing. You are truly appreciated for sharing this in the way you did. Thank you.
And I really appreciate the comment from you as well, Losso! Thanks for watching!
This is a great video! And I must say you’re a fantastic speaker!
You are a blessing.
Have a blessed day!
Thanks so much for watching, Paul, and I appreciate your kind comments! My best to you and your family and hope all is going well for you in these times.
Great professional job. Looking forward to part 2.
Working on it right now, Greg! Thanks for your comment and for watching!
Thanks for the video I am going to be doing a corner round shower in my house (single wide mobile) and this is one of the best videos I found for building the pan that is easy to follow
Thanks for watching Lyle and good luck on your shower project! Just a reminder if you haven’t done it already, but you may want to check your floor joist structure under the area where you are building the shower. The weight you are adding to that area of your house can get pretty substantial when the dry pack gets added on top of the floor. You should be able to beef it up a little pretty easily if it looks like you need to. 🙂
Hey Rusty! Hope you and family are staying safe with all this covid stuff. Video is great, makes the process seem really straightforward (although not necessarily easy!). I think people are so interested in videos like this since they know how much damage water can do if not handled properly. I used to do work on a 1920's house with several generations of piping and drains (cast iron, steel, pvc etc..., I think the house even had an Orangeburg sewer which was replaced long before I bought it). As careful as I was doing plumbing work it always made me nervous. Looking forward to the next video!
Thanks, Adam, and yeah, so far so good on the Covid situation! When you get into working on those really old homes like that, you do have to be pretty much prepared for anything! This home, that was built in the 70s, still had cast-iron which actually surprised me a little. But it is a really well-built home that was a part of the development by one specific builder for that area I think. I have never heard of Orangeburg sewer pipe! I’m going to have to look that up! Take care, Adam!
As a plumber I understand construction. Your explanation/narration is mighty pro. Thanks for making this video. It gave me the clarity I was looking for 😉
Glad it was helpful, Jeffrey! Yeah, you are way ahead of most people because you understand the purpose of every step from the plumbing side. If you have not worked with dry pack before, it is like a regular cement mix without gravel and intended to be placed pretty dry with enough water to cause it to set up. It’s consistency makes it easy to cut, shape and pack. It’s porous to allow water that will make its way through the tile grout joints over time to get to the weep holes. The more you work with dry pack, the more your like it and see the possible applications for it. Like regular cement, once you start a batch, you need to steadily stay with it until you’re done. Try to get each layer done within a couple of hours. Good luck!
My first real construction job was as a plumber’s helper for about 6 months as a 19 year old. Invaluable experience that everyone would benefit from. Worked with some good guys who willingly taught me the basics and exposed me to new construction as well as repair. Tearing out 40 year old cast iron sewer lines was a particular treat! Humbling experience that needed to be done and was good for the soul!
Commented on your first video of this a year or so back. I thought I was going to tackle the shower then, but I realized I had a LOT of other work to do in my house.
The long story for that one is as simple as "I'm remodeling a 1920s house, and instead of just a simply drywall replace, I replaced all plumbing, electric, heating, gas, & yes...even added a secondary subfloor later with extra support braces, windows, doors & frames all to match the updated aesthetic." Except the additional part I never mention is that I did have help from my 65 year old father through the couple of years to learn each trade slowly. He was originally an electrical engineer, where my field is in IT Services (Information Technology). Anyway, the simple to long story is that some things he didn't know, some things I decided to tackle without him present. Things I certainly got his help on was with the framing, electrical & hanging drywall. The beauty of that is when I was a young child, he remodeled the house I grew up in and I was the "helper". In this circumstance, he was the helper to me...which was a nice father-son bonding time at the age of 30.
Anyway, a year or so past, a world-wide pandemic happened, I stumbled upon more income due to all of that situation and I went a bit different with approaches around the interior design of the house.
And here we are today. I have all the floors (solid hardwood oak & tile across the house) complete, all the painting done, bathroom mostly put together and I'm (still) waiting on kitchen cabinets ordered in March (Homedepot lol). But I decided over the weekend I was going to tackle building the shower.
Just like tiling, I felt the method of drypack for the pre-slope was a bit more therapeutic. I didn't feel much of a strain when doing it, however I do have a MUCH smaller shower (32" x 36"). Did the pre-slope last night and used the 4:1 sand to cement mixture as you recommended and wow it turned out fantastic today. I checked for levelness across while doing it all yesterday and confirmed it was sloping toward the shower at the same slope, whilst still having a level side-to-side appearance so that the edges are the same. That's something I wasn't sure if I was going to do well, it actually wasn't as hard as I thought.
The next stage for me is the shower pan liner and then the top layer.
I'm writing all this to thank you for uploading a newer video and talking through certain steps. There's quite the number of these videos all over RUclips, but a lot of them are either 'missing' crucial information, or simply do wrong steps that really end up causing a failure. I think this video should be viewed by a LOT more people. Thank you for editing and uploading it. From a person who isn't subscribed (yet, will after this) and will be in a moment, this has truly been such a nice and easy walk through tutorial on it.
For anyone reading this who hasn't tackled the project, just do it. It's not just easier than you think, it's a lot more fun. I felt like I was a kid playing in sand for a little bit lol...but at the end of the day, the only real hard part is making sure that you are sloping, so check levelness all the way through continuatously.
I also decided to make multiple wood screeds out of excess lumber i had laying around. I made it in varying sizes depending upon where I was in the shower. It was very helpful to do this as I don't think my preslope would have been as smooth as it was if I didn't.
Hey Josh! Great comments and thanks so much for taking the time to share all of this with me. There is much of what you said that I would like to add comments about. You hit on lots of things that could be helpful to people, particularly younger people like yourself. I’m appreciative of your relationship with your father and how you have drawn from his experience and knowledge to build and expand your own skill set. I can assure you that connection with you means a great deal to him in his mid 60s.
I’m not sure if you completely understand this yet but what you have been able to do so far with your remodel of your 20s house not only translates into sweat equity for you, but potentially opens future opportunities to further secure your financial future. Being able to work with your hands and understand how homes are constructed is a big deal, particularly in this day and age. Just ask the people in Texas after their ‘deep freeze’ experience earlier this year. They understand how important those skills are. I use to joke when I was around your age that one day plumbers and electricians would rule the world! That may not be that far off! With the scope of things that you have done at 30, you will probably never have to rely on any other people to keep things together around your home. There is not only security in that but also a great sense of pride in yourself and confidence in your abilities that grows with what you are doing.
I have never shared on RUclips much about my personal work history. I’m sure most assume I have been a contractor all my life. The reality is that at 22 I was finishing my undergraduate degree and took a summer job as a helper at a tile company in Abilene, Texas while finishing one last summer school course. The work came easy to me and that’s when I started picking up trades. Sounds a little like you! It wasn’t long before I was doing outside work for a contractor friend and my contracting business was launched. I was able to finish a MBA a few years later and support a family, buy a house, etc., all with income generated from construction.
When personal computers came into being in the early 80s, I had to have one. It was an original Apple IIe with a program called Appleworks that I learned to use. From that time forward, I started making money with computers which opened up further business opportunities. Long story short, about half my career has been spent in construction primarily and the other half in healthcare, specifically Alzheimers and dementia care. A partner and I designed, built and operated our own facilities with me as the general contractor on our projects. The construction background, MBA and computer skills gave me credibility with bankers we needed to borrow money from. Being able to work with my hands always gave me flexibility to earn income and support my family while I was working on putting other deals and projects together.
I basically retired in my early 50s, started doing some small construction projects again a few years later, got curious about making RUclips content about 5 years ago and the computer background made that just a matter of learning editing software. I’m finally getting to some level of proficiency with Blender now. I will be working in the content creation arena for the foreseeable future or as long as I am able. I’m 66 years old now.
What am I most proud of personally? That I can work with my hands! To pick up on one of your comments, when I had a shower floor to do, I use to tell my kids I had to go play in the sand today! It is fun and is not as hard as people may think!
Finally, the computer I am working on now is my first computer build with the help of a tech whiz, 29 year old family member. No metal case but a wood case design that I will ultimately incorporate into a corner desk. We used the best parts available and the graphics card is the only part that’s a few generations back due to the crypto mining. That process is also not as hard as it looks these days. Will never buy a prebuilt system again.
My best to you, Josh! We don’t know each other, but I am proud of you and the path that you are on! You will do well, young man! Bet you never guessed I would have a longer response than your original post! 😬
Excellent build, Rusty! The geometry on this one is a real headache so I have a lot of respect for you getting the fall and corners correct... have to say, however, having done a few dry-pack pans myself I did not envy you on this one. Thanks for sharing such great content.
Hey, Marshal! Yeah, this one looks a little more complicated than it actually turned out to be. My reach to be able to get to everything in this build was pretty reasonable because of the three sided access to the floor. As you know, the further you have to reach when doing dry pack, the more challenging it becomes and the more it wears your body out! As always, I appreciate your comments and thanks for watching!
Well done video. Especially like the notched stick around the drain idea
Thanks, Brooks! Yeah, I had to have a guy tell me that idea many years ago or I'm not sure when I would have figured it out! 😬
THIS WAS A BADASS BUILD!!!! GOOD JOB!!
Hey, thanks, GOAT! I appreciate you watching!
Thank you for your expertise
Thanks for watching and your comment, Marco! I appreciate it!
Great video.. Thanks for sharing your knowledge..
Glad you found it helpful, Johnny! Thanks for watching!
I'm just blown away by your old-school talents! I've never done this process before, but by watching your videos over and over, I feel I can do it. I'm going to try my first shower floor and it will be 36" X 60". Wish me luck Mr. Wonderful!
I'm glad you find the videos helpful! You are right describing it all as a process. You just take it a step at a time and, like with most things, you get better the more you do it. The 60" length makes it a little more challenging particularly if your drain is at one end of the space and not close to the middle. Cut a few longer screed sticks. You will definitely get a good upper body workout floating that shower floor! You've got a great attitude and will learn a lot by taking on this challenge!
Never put nail holes in the rubber pan and Mr Dobbs achieved it
Thank you for this video. Your channel has fantastic content!
Thanks, Daniel, and I appreciate you watching! I'm glad you are finding the videos helpful!
Beautiful job!
Thanks, Welch! I appreciate you watching!
It's always good to see another post from you! You do excellent work. Always enjoyable!!!!
Thanks, Danny, and good to hear from you as well! Think I'm finishing my last major remodel this week which included this shower. Covid situation kind of helps to make that decision a little easier too. Should allow me to commit more time to video creation and projects around the house and in the shop. On the Carlsbad front, Boz and his wife just made the move to Albuquerque. Will be good to have them around and both their kids are here also. As you probably already know, Carlsbad is a totally different place than in our younger days!
@@RustyDobbs Yes sir, we go back to Carlsbad several time a year and it is unreal what it has changed to. I will never live there again. Good for Boz!!! Glad he made the move. I don't think Albuquerque would be my choice but everyone has to make their own way. I never figured Houston would be a good move for me either but it's home now so we just go with the flow. Hope you get to enjoy some time at home. Stay in touch and I will talk at you soon!!!
Good build, especially good for DIY and better than many on here from “professionals”.
Thanks for watching and for the comment, Johnny! Yeah, the 'old school' guys I learned from called themselves "tile setters". They viewed "professionals" as people who dressed up to go to work and had to call tile setters to fix their leaking showers and that was enough affirmation of the value of their trade. It's strange to me that of all the trades, it is tile setters on RUclips who sometimes feel the need to refer to themselves as professionals. Not sure what to make of that?
This channel is great
Thanks, Brendan!
Thank you
Your welcome and thanks for watching!
Good job, a lot work for that little shower though
Thanks, Michele! It was a very custom design and the homeowner wanted some very specific features. She was not concerned about cost. We completely redesigned the whole masterbath and had a crawlspace so there were no limitations on what we could do as long as it fit in the square footage available. That's about as big as we could make the shower and get everything in that was still needed!
For future reference, as a suggestion, use a float or something flat to press down the shower floor tiles instead of your hand. You did a great job! Excellent!
I appreciate you watching and your comment, Zimpler! The reason I press each individual tile into the thinset rather than use a method as you suggest is because the cured drypack surface soaks the moisture out of the thinset so fast that I want to make sure there is a good bond between each piece of tile and the drypack surface. So I work a one foot square sheet of tile at a time max and work quickly to make sure each tile has a good bond before the thinset starts to dry out under the tile. The last thing you want is for a tile to come loose from the drypack over time.
Thanks for the video. I will be doing my shower pan soon.I am mainly worried about getting the slope consistent. I wonder why a wood curb rots, like you said before in a previous video. It is covered by the pan liner. I think i am just going to make a form and just pour some concrete for my curb. Thanks again.
Thanks for watching, Kurt! I think the issue I have with wood curbs is that there is absolutely no room for error with wood. If it gets any water to it, the wood will expand. The tile that is set on it or against it will not expand with it and now you have a problem there is no way to fix. Pouring a concrete curb is an excellent way to go! Good luck on your project!
Sir! You are a true tradesman, it would be great to work alongside you to learn from you.
Thanks for your kind comments, JC! I appreciate you watching!
Great video Rusty! I’m in the process of remodeling a bathroom that had a floated floor that allowed the tile to match the adjacent floor floor at the same height. I’ve been really reluctant to try and tackle the job of floating it myself (5 x 8 floor), but I feel this dry pack is probably what I need. How would I go about prepping the wood subfloor (old 1910 slats) and conduit pipes before laying the dry pack/mortar bed?
Thanks, Ryan, and good question! Boy you are going way back in time with floating in a subfloor for tile, but that is the way it used to be done and it still works fine. I have always attached metal lath to the floor like your 5 x 8 floor area and then floated in dry pack to whatever thickness I needed for the situation but typically 1/2” to 3/4” thick. You can use thin screed sticks like I did on the shower floor to get your height established as you work, then pull them and fill. You can put down some type of vapor barrier like roofing felt below the dry pack to slow down the dry out time of your material and maybe protect the conduit you mentioned. But these days I pretty much use quarter-inch or half-inch Hardibacker on situations like yours. I’m not sure if there’s some reason you can’t do that, but if so, floating in a floor is still a good option. Good luck with your project!
Thanks for the response! Ideally I’d love to do the Hardiebacker method, but the conduit sits about 1” to 1.125” above/on top of the subfloor and by the time I build up everything around it, plus putting one final layer of even the thinnest Hardie plus the thickness of the thinset/tile and I’m going to be 1/4 to 1/2” above the finished hardwood floor at the door threshold. If I’m missing something, I’m open to suggestions.
Thanks for sharing your expertise. Did you do anything special to keep the sharp lathe from slicing the pan liner? I didn't see where you did the flood test, maybe you did that after installing the lathe?
No, just common sense to make sure the lathe isn’t gouging into the pan material anywhere. The shower pan liners I use are quite thick, durable and pliable. A flood test is not required for this type of installation where I live. With the preslope in place and carefully installing the pan to make sure there are no penetrations prior to the final dry pack, this type of installation will last until someone wants to update the tile. Thanks for watching, Peter!
Thank you. The "professionals" messed up my shower. Because of the mold I started tearing it out.
I haven't seen any sign of a waterproof liner. I had no clue how to fix it
You showed the process from start to finish with clear directions. This is the best video I have seen and I thank you!
Glad the video was helpful, Florida! Good luck with your demo and replacing your shower.
Nice work. Interesting how the ceiling is recessed above the shower. Is there a purpose for that? I would have expected to see an exhaust fan in that recess. Seems like it'd be a dead end for moist air.
Thanks, Tin! Yeah, the owner wanted recessed lighting in the ceiling over the shower that she could control remotely so that’s the reason for the design. I installed laminate strips on the top of the recess ledge before the LEDs to hopefully deal with condensation that may collect there. The exhaust fan is in the ceiling just outside the shower door and automatically kicks on and off based on the humidity it senses in the air. Not a perfect solution but the best we could do given the parameters.
Hi Rusty. Found your videos the other day and am so glad I did. I have done numerous showers, but always tiling over a tub, and have never floated a floor. I think I am about ready, and the main reason I found you was I was searching for "concrete curbs" as I would prefer that over 2x4's. Obviously yours are brick, but I kept wondering what to do after the lathe was wrapped over - how did I then lay tile? You answered it by showing putting the forms down and filling with dry pack. What I am still not knowing is (1) is there a preferred thickness, or minimum for that? (2) curious why dry pack and not concrete? I've not used dry pack ever, but it can crumble, can it not? And (3) you never mention if you attached the lathe in any way? Just wasn't sure if you poured the dry pack in (or concrete) if the lathe needed to be attached - obviously only from the outside portion. Sorry so long. Thanks!!! (You have a new subscriber in me now too)
Hey, Reid! Yes, definitely concrete curbs over 2x4s for obvious reasons. Let me answer your questions like this. If you can come up with a way to have a concrete curb that has the liner buried in it up to near the top of the curb, you’ve got a curb that will work and that you can set tile on. I just do that in a variety of ways to fit the situation. When I wrap the curb with lathe and set forms, I’m looking for about a half inch minimum thickness for the pour between the form and the brick structure. I use dry pack mix because I have it available and it is portland cement and sand which makes a solid cement base when dry. I just thin it enough that I can get it to flow well into my forms. I bend my lathe in a “U” shape and in such a way that it grips the curb when in place. When the forms are set and the cement is poured in them, the lathe is solidified in place. With thinset applied and tile set over that, the curb is not going anywhere.
My methods are based on things others have taught me over the years and common sense improvements I have made as well. Yes, dry pack that is used for building the floor can crumble fairly easily but it has the advantage of being able to be cut and sculpted easily. Again, it will have thinset applied and floor tile set over it. The more water you add to dry pack mix, like cement, by troweling it you can raise moisture to the surface and get a typical hard, smooth cement finish (just without the gravel). Dry pack mix is much more of a pain to cut and shape with higher water content added so less water added is preferable for placing dry pack floors. Just try working with dry pack a little and you will get the feel for what a versatile mix it is. Lots of rambling, but hope that helps! Thanks for watching and for subscribing!
Great video. I’ve procrastinated building my shower pan for the last 6 weeks but can’t put it off any longer. How did you notch for the liner folds? Thanks
Good luck on your shower pan, Gilbert! On the inside corners, I prefer to notch the studs 1/8” or so to be able to fold the liner into the wall space and secure it with a screw at the top of the liner edge. It’s kinda like wrapping up Christmas gift dealing with the folds of. That way the folds don’t interfere with the alignment of the Hardibacker on the wall. The outside corners are a different issue because you have to cut the liner and patch around it or buy preformed outside corner liner pieces.
Hi Rusty, building the curb from bricks is a great idea. Thanks for uploading this video which is packed with useful information for the amateur. What type of mortar or perhaps thinset is suitable for laying bricks on a wood subfloor ?
After reviewing the TCNA ANSI standards, it appears a mortar meeting A118.11 would be satisfactory for setting bricks on plywood subfloor; would that be a fair summary?
Hey Alan! Sounds like you have it figured out. On a wood subfloor, I attach a layer of metal lathe to the floor under the bricks. Not sure how much that matters, but makes sense to me. 🙂 I actually use one part portland cement to four parts sand and mix it to a good mortar consistency for setting bricks in this type of situation.
Please do more shower videos with lathe dry pack. Maybe shower walls too! Do you have any thoughts regarding this tried and true method vs. the Kerdi system? I kind of feel that this method is more reliable and will last. what do others think?
You sound like you have some history with the ‘old school’ methods, Amanda! I have done a little work with the newer methods like Kerdi in specific situations where it made sense to me, but 9 times out of 10 I will go with the “tried and true” approaches with all things being equal. The newer products are also quite expensive! It’s just difficult to argue with approaches that you know work. I will say that the true believers in the newer products I have encountered are absolutely hard-core converts!
I have a shower to do in my shop office one of these days and I certainly may do lath and mud walls in that shower to show that method in a video. I think the younger tile setting folks might find that process instructive at a minimum! Thanks for watching and for your comments!
Enjoying your channel! I'm not planning to do this myself, but I'm curious how they do the shower pan for curbless shower enclosures. The "wet room" look is very popular now. But is there a "pan" for the entire area? Anybody done this?
I have done a couple over the years, John. I use basically the same concept but on a concrete slab you remove the slab in the shower area, compact the ground under the shower then go back with preslope, liner and finish dry pack as normal. I cut the liner off flush with the floor where the step would normally be and make sure I have a pretty aggressive slope at that point back to the drain. I have not done it with a wood subfloor, but the structural support would get complicated in a hurry so I would like not be interested in doing it with this methodology.
Hey Rusty, you know I appreciate your videos and your skill level, just curious why you don't water proof your shower with a liquid topical membrane... also did you marry that mortar on the curb with the mortar on your pan?
Nice trick with the cutout piece of shim around your drain to get your exact height for your tile 👍
Hey Bob! The appreciation goes both ways for your skillset and knowledge as well.
Yeah, long answer! Since my first exposure to tile setting was mixing and carrying mud for craftsmen floating shower walls and floors over 40 years ago, I’ve always had an appreciation for that approach and the inherent benefits of it. 1/2” Hardibacker on the walls is pretty darn close to replicating it. I’ve been slow to come around to fully accept the idea of a full waterproof membrane or envelope behind the tile. So I’m sort of caught in “Purgatory” here! I see the obvious benefit of keeping water away from backerboard and studs. But I have never had a good response to the question of what happens to water that still is going to get behind the tile over time, but now gets trapped between the tile and the membrane. I have asked it probably seven or eight times of “commentors” who are true believers in the ‘waterproof envelope’ concept and have never gotten a reply to that question. I think the reason is because there really isn’t a good answer.
On one occasion about five years ago, I set tile in a shower for a couple who had someone else do all the prep work which included lathering everything (walls, floor and seat) in multiple coats of Hydroban. Ventilation was going to be a problem in the shower and I told them that they were going to need to squeegee and towel dry it after use. They also installed a 5 foot shower door and panel which actually made it almost like a sauna. You see where I’m heading with this. About a year later, I was there doing some other work for them and they asked me to check the shower. Obviously, they never dried the shower and not only was mold beginning to grow in the lower corners, but the caulk was turning to mush. I think if I asked the old tile setters, long gone now, who taught me to float mud walls what they thought, I imagine the response would be “What did you expect was going to happen, you idiot?” At least the homeowners don’t have to worry about water getting to their studs!
On the step question, the lath did extend down into the area where the final dry pack was placed. Not really by much, so it didn’t have any substantive effect of a structural connection.
What do you use to bond the bricks? Is it Type S mortar?
Must the flange of the drain be flush to the subfloor, or can it be 1/2" above it, prior to setting the first mud pack?
Beautiful job sir!
I use a richer, thinned down version of my drypack mix which is a portland cement base but masonry cement is fine too. I just typically don’t buy it unless I am floating shower walls which is very rare these days. No, the drain does not have to be flush with the subfloor. In a perfect world, that’s the ideal installation, but your first layer of drypack will level out the floor to install the shower pan appropriately. Thanks for watching, EE, and good luck with your project!
Another thing I like about this backer board floor is that it looks like I don't have to cut a 45 degree angle into my subfloor around the drain. Did you screw that drain through the backer board into the subfloor?
It's a good way to go, Pen. It happened to work out that I needed the additional 1/2" thickness to match up with the bedroom finished flooring. Yes, I did screw the drain down through the Hardiebacker into the subfloor. Very solid installation.
Have you ever seen mineral salts clog up the drain weep holes? I tore one of these out that was so clogged that the moisture migrated up the wall and curb
No, I haven't seen a situation like that. But depending on the mineral content of the water, obviously in your experience that can happen. Sounds like there may have also been some issues with floor slope, floor tile installation and grout joints letting water reach the dry pack more than it should have.
I want to build my own shower but I overthink everything 😫. I'm a nurse. I'm a see one do one girl. I need to come follow you for a shower install. Do you offer classes?🤣🤣🤣
Ok, Jessica, I am married to a nurse! I have many (too many!) nurse friends! So, I have a very good idea as to how much you guys overthink things! The redeeming quality in you is that at least you admit that you overthink things! All the others I know think that might be their best attribute! But I do have to admit, you guys do come in handy when I’m sick! 🙂
I’m betting you can build your own shower! As you may have noticed in my channel comments, I give feedback to lots of people on their projects and have had many successfully build their own showers or do other projects. I don’t do classes 🤔, but if you’re serious about tackling your shower or another project, I’d be happy to help you out. In the past, viewers and I would switch to email to exchange pictures and information about projects because we don’t have the option to do that in RUclips comments. I have recently begun using an app called Volley to communicate with people about their projects because it is faster for me than emails and better and more complete information can be shared more efficiently. The options of using text, voice, pictures, files or video messages makes it easy to pass information back and forth through Volley. If you are interested, you can email me at rusty@dobbsworkshop.com and I can send you a link to connect with me on Volley. You can also explore Volley at volleyapp.com and download the app there, if you prefer, then let me know and I will send you a link to connect on Volley.
Volley is a free app and I have always enjoyed helping people take on projects and challenge themselves so, at this time, I don’t charge for the Volley coaching. So nice to hear from you, Jessica! Happy to help you out, too! Sounds like you’ve got ‘spunk’! 👍
Rookie question, why would a dryer mix of quickrete/water not be a good idea to use for a pan vs the dry pack? Adheasion of the thinset?
Technically, it would probably work, Louie, but I would not like the coarse gravel if that is the type of Quikrete you are referring to. There are also premixed sand and cement products that I get questions about too from people. They might be fine, but I have just never experimented with them. To me, bags of sand and portland cement are about as simple as it gets to produce a dry pack mix that does a great job that can last decades. Thinset will stick to any cement based finish. Hope that helps!
Did you place anything over the wood floor before placing the first layer of DryPack?
Hey, James! The original subfloor of the house is 1 1/2” tongue and groove 2x6 pine, so very stout. On top of that we added a layer of half-inch Hardibacker across the entire bathroom floor so my first layer of dry pack is placed on the Hardibacker.
What are you thoughts on kerdi over vinyl pan liner?
Hey Rito! I'm assuming you are asking about Kerdi in place of vinyl pan. I think it is probably fine but I have been happy with the vinyl pan so have only experimented with Kerdi. In one video I did called "Building a Shower Pan From Scratch - In a Tiny Home", I used Kerdi and it worked out fine. It's my son's tiny home and so I was totally experimenting with a different approach. About three years later and it is still holding up fine!
A lot work and time to setup a shower base many people don't understand amount hard labor
Good point, Best! Yes, every time I do a shower floor installation, I definitely feel like I have had a workout at the end of the day! Kind of like an extended yoga session! 🙂 Thanks for watching!
Rusty, is Quikrete mortar mix just as good or do you think your mix is a stronger way to go?
It may be fine, David, but I have just never had the need to try it. There is nothing magical about my mix either. It is just the method I was taught and has always worked well so I have never had the need to explore anything else.
Is it ok to put backer board directly on the plywood shower subfloor and pour the dry mud on top of that? And how can I verify that my 3/4 inch plywood subfloor can hold the weight of all this concrete?
Yes, Pen, using Hardiebacker over the subfloor is a standard thing for me under a shower. The next question is a more difficult one to answer because you need to take a close look at the structural support under the shower to make a decision for the weight reason you mention. I generally just open up the floor under the shower area first thing to see what I am dealing with then do what I need to in order to feel comfortable moving forward. With the subfloor removed, it's also easy access to the area that may need to be beefed up.
What is the mixture you use for the curbs you mention at 11:17 ? Is your mixture a wetter dry pack? Why doesn't the modified dry pack stick to the forms? Are there any tricks in making those forms? I have very little clearance between the shower and the toilet and can only afford a curb of 4 inches total, including tile. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
Hey David. The mixture that I use for the dry pack is the same throughout and it is just mixed thinner in order to pour into the forms. You can also lightly tap the forms as are doing pouring to try to get it to run down further and even take a pointed trowel or screwdriver to help ease the material in the forms. You'll probably have a void or two anyway, but just fill with thinset after it dries. It does help to coat the forms with some sort of finish. I use Polycrylic by Minwax all the time in the shop, so always have some of it available to brush on a couple of quick coats. With the thinness of your curb, you might just consider pouring the curb with solid dry pack mix. I would use some strips of metal lath any other type of metal mesh you may have available to place in the forms before pouring in the thinned down dry pack mix. Hope that helps and good luck.
@@RustyDobbs Thanks for the advice. I already have bricks on edge down, and will wrap with wire lath and use the dry set. I see mixing raios of 3 to 1, and you use 4 to 1. Any reason not to use 3 to 1? I have plenty of Portland cement for my purposes.
How do I waterproof between the hardy backer and floor tile? On the very bottom?
If you are talking about the corner where the wall and floor meet, you can silicone that area if you want. I don't generally worry about it because my floor is sloping toward the drain where the Hardiebacker reaches the floor and after tile is installed, I caulk that joint at the floor tile and wall tile intersection.
how much does that job cost
I didn’t see tar paper stapled to the subfloor with wire mesh before the pre slope.
The silicone around the first piece drain was skipped underneath the liner which sal diblasi says is mandatory even though the bolts get tightened down.
The form is actually impressive for the step but I just used wood and cement board for mine instead of those bricks you did there.
The subfloor is new 1/2” Hardiebacker installed on top of the old subfloor across the entire bathroom. Sure, you could use tar paper and wire mesh before the preslope or better yet, you could run another shower pan under the preslope. Why you would do that, I’m not sure. You have a shower pan installed on the preslope that is tied to the drain and wrapped up the wall behind the Hardiebacker and tile. Done right, that’s got you covered for decades.
Since RUclips came along, some tile setters have tried to turn their craft into a science. The only group I have seen who have tried to do that. I’m sorry to tell these guys that it is not brain surgery. You know as well as I do that it is not that difficult. You obviously have done your own tile work and it doesn’t sound like you set tile for a living. So one guy says a bead of silicone is “mandatory”? Or what? Lots of silly things get said by these guys. It is not necessary to try to pump up the perceived knowledge/skill level required to set tile for a RUclips audience. Great tile setters produce great work and that skill doesn’t need to be defended or built up. It’s an honorable trade to earn a living with. They should be happy about that. But, most homeowners with pretty good skills with their hands can be successful taking on their own tile jobs. I have helped a bunch of them through my videos and have been criticized by “professional” tile setters for sharing skills/trade secrets that great tile setters taught me 40 years ago. I’m glad you have been able to do your own work and many others like you with the help from RUclips videos. By the way, if only a little bit of water ever makes its way to the wood buried in your step, you will understand why I build steps the way I do.
How far from the subfloor do you let the drain float for the dry pack, is a quarter of an inch ?
Yes, that measurement is not critical. All the dry pack is doing on that first layer is providing a support for the shower pan. It will be thin regardless and will crack as a result, but that is fine. It is not going anywhere!
what kind of mortar did you use for your curb? Deck mud or fat/wet mud?
I used the same mix I did for the dry pack. I just thinned it enough to use as mortar to set brick and pour into the forms for the exterior of the curb. My mix is one part portland cement to 4 parts sand. I may have added an extra shot of portland for the curb mix to make it a little richer with cement.
Hi Rusty! Did you ever make a video on how to make folds (or cuts) on a pan liner to apply around and outside corner of a shower bench? If so could you provide me the link? Thanks very much!
I think this is the only video where I dealt with outside corners to install a shower pan, Mike. You can buy pre-made outside corners from liner manufacturers that you glue in place. You do need to make precise cuts at those corners and go only as low as you absolutely have to in order to get the pan to rest flat on your pre-slope. In this case, I fabricated my own liner pieces to wrap around the corner to glue in place. I am not a big fan of seats like this in showers for obvious reasons as an installer. I prefer the 45° steel triangle seats that mount to the wall and are filled with dry pack. You don’t have to worry about compromising the liner with them. Sounds like you may be considering a project! Good luck!
@@RustyDobbs Thanks for your reply (and time), Rusty!
WHAT IS THE NAME OF THAT TRADE ? I need someone to do something like this for me
Any tile setters will know what you are talking about. It's basically building a shower floor using a shower pan liner and dry pack mix.
@@RustyDobbs thank you
Hey mr. Rusty What size of metal lab are you using, is ok if I use chicken coop wire 1/4?
I don't think there is a specific requirement on the type of metal lathe that I would use. It's just giving the mud mixture something to attach to and some rigidity to the structure of the curb.
Hi, what's the angle you cut on the curb?
Thanks.
Hey Mario! Two 45 degree angles on the shape of the curb. About an 1/8" lower on the back of the curb from the front. You definite want enough fall for the water to drain back into the shower.
I'm worried about puncturing liner when putting liner on curb it seems 50% of tile stters don't use it?
My view on the standard liners like the one I used in this video is that if they are installed with care there is no need to be worried about punctures or tears, Steven. My observations of tearing out leaking showers is that pans get damaged by careless contractors in a hurry to get finished. Most commonly sheetrock screws or other sharp objects are left under pans during installation. Often installers will screw through pans into studs below the level of the finished shower floor. Over the years, you will get leaks in those showers as a result. There are newer methods that will probably prove to be fine over time. This approach is an old method that has proven itself over decades to be reliable. Just has to be done right in the first place.
Why don’t you just form and pour a concrete curb? Is it more of a preference? Thanks!
I have done that at times in the past depending on the circumstances, but yes, this is my preferred method.
Is it ok if the first dry pack is a little crumbly after drying
Yes, Lori, that is not unusual. The dry pack mixture has a purpose that is different from poured cement so it’s surface is going to remain a little grainy. The tile installed on the second layer of dry pack is going to protect that finished surface and allow it to do its job. That is why I get the tile installed on the shower floor as quickly as possible before there is the possibility of foot traffic on the dry pack. The first layer is just to provide support and slope for the shower pan.
@@RustyDobbs thank you
How long did it take you to build the shower?
We were remodeling the whole bathroom, Yasir, so it was an extended project moving walls building cabinetry and lighting. If I were only doing the shower alone, that would be probably a 6 to 8 day project.
@@RustyDobbs I'm building a roman tub, would you advise me to use bricks perimeter siding? I've already secured my structure with double joists to ensure structural support.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Rusty, you don’t waterproof the shower pan before tiling? I was under impression you should red guard the shower pan.
Hi Dick… not necessarily on waterproofing the shower floor. I learned how to install this type of shower floor system about 45 years ago and it wasn’t a new technique at that time. Just a tried and true, old school method. I have been aware of the waterproof membranes for probably 10 years and use them periodically on a per case basis. Point being, obviously, a waterproof membrane is not necessary for a shower floor installed in this way. Does it help or hurt? Not sure, myself. The floor design deals effectively with water in the floor over time with the shower pan and weep holes in the drain. My concern is that I want the floor tile to have a good bond with the dry pack. If your tile starts coming up, you have a major problem. The membranes have their legitimate uses, but should not be viewed as a must for all situations. Hope that helps!
@@RustyDobbs I’m a big fan of the old school methods ( and your videos) because I think they work too. I did a pre slope , so theoretically the shower pan liner will direct moisture to the drain. I am a little bit conflicted however with red guarding the pan. The last shower I took part in remodeling, I hired a guy to build the pan for me. He built it the same way you did and red guarded the pan after. The tile seemed to adhere well. I have since acquired more experience with concrete over the years working on my backyard to do this one myself. You explain the process better than anything else out there. I truly appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience. You are a true craftsman. Thanks very much.
Can you post the name of the sand and cement you use for your bed?
Yes, Ormond, the sand is just regular bagged “play” sand or mortar sand that I purchased from Lowes. The cement is also from Lowes and is called portland cement. That’s the only two ingredients that are needed. Good luck with your project!
@@RustyDobbs thanks. Can't wait to show you the finish product
Instead of cutting the pasco which is big time sketch. I just pay for hotmop
That is one way to go.
Hello Mr. Dobbs, Yet another great video! I watched your other video (ruclips.net/video/1vNapRUC5Sw/видео.html) where you used QUIKRETE Patio Paver Base Sand in your dry-pack. I purchased some and it is very course and doesn't pack well to a smooth surface. I see in this video you use Play Sand, will the play sand hold up as good a mason or all purpose type of sand from Quikrete? Thank you Austin Snow
Thanks so much, Austin! Yes, I know what you’re talking about with some sand varieties being a little more coarse or fine. If you do enough of this kind of work, you probably develop a preference for an optimal amount of texture for your sand, but candidly, I don’t think about it that much anymore. I know I don’t like extremely fine sand because it will tend to more easily become pasty on the surface as you work it. In the end, when you are going to spread thinset and set tile on the surface, your main goal is to have a solid base to set the tile on which for me generally comes down to getting my moisture content right for the dry pack that I’m working with. If I can get that right, the texture of the sand doesn’t really impact the end result. It’s the Portland cement that gives the dry pack its durability. This mixture can be used for a lot of different purposes outside of a shower floor, so if I use it in a setting where it’s surface is going to be exposed, I think more about the sand textures I’m using. Hope that explanation is helpful!
@@RustyDobbs I'm looking to install a custom shower (53" x 82") in my home. I can get both Play Sand and All Purpose Sand from Quikrete where I live. For the strongest base, would you recommend one over the other or a mix of the 2? Also how long do I have before the Dry Pack starts to harden during the sloping and shouldn't be disturbed? It's a pretty good size shower and could take 5 or 6 batches to get the pre-slope done. Thanks again. Austin