i wrap mine with stucco wire and float it. that way you dont have to put screws threw the inside pan to install the strip of. dura rock. 100 percent waterproof to the top of the curb. learned from an old school setter down here in tennessee
I have found over the years that there are several methods of building a tile shower. Some are good and some just shouldn't be done at all. This video is actually pretty close to how I do it as well, with a slight difference. When I do my rubber liner, I cut all my corners in and use a glue specifically made for the rubber I am using. When I am done, I take the liner out of the shower and take it outside. I fill it with water to make sure it's sealed completely. Then I will dry it and put it back in the shower, then cut the hole for the drain and seal around the drain, making sure I puncture for the weep holes. I will then attach it to the blocking around the shower walls by using a pin nailer at the very top edge of the liner. I've seen some people put the liner in first then drywall over it, so the drywall is on the inside of the liner, but I find this kind of silly. I always put the liner in after the drywall so the liner can go on the surface of the drywall. I like this because it will naturally kick the bottom tiles out slightly and direct the water away from the joint between the floor and wall. The floor I do just like this video, it's the curb that I do a little different. I do the Hardibacker on the vertical surfaces of the curb and screw it in, but for the top I float that with mortar. I use the edges of the Hardibacker to set the slope on the top of the curb and the mortar fills in any gaps and creates a solid surface. Once all that is done, I finish it up by Redgarding everything. I don't like pre sloping the mortar for the floor either, I have found it's just as fast to slope the floor while setting the tile, especially if a larger tile has been chosen. I always use an adjustable drain so I can adjust the drain to the tile instead of the other way around, so much faster. Last but not least, there are always going to be people that criticize how other people do things. Not because it's wrong, just because it's not THEIR way. There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say. As long as you do good work, stand behind it and the customer is happy, what else is there to do. Thanks for the video and happy contracting.
Oh No Bueno on you pan liners. It will fail within the year. You never put pan liner on the outside of your drywall because if water ever does seep thru, which it will, You will have water damage and mold growing in your wall. Besides that you cannot bond tile onto the pan liner. Listen to the other 3 comments Above.
I am absolutely amazed at the time you are taking to build a "Model T" shower. With 25 years of experience, many of the early years building showers like this, I have moved into the 21st Century and only use WEDI technology. The cost offset by the labor saved and the perfect waterproof seal ELIMINATES the weakness of concrete base, wood curb methods. I have removed dozens of failed concrete/membrane based showers only to reveal the "septic tank" stink of moldy moisture soaked cement. Moisture control needs to be above the base, not below
Great tutorial, I also have never had a problem screwing the cement board on top of the rubber pan at the curb if its waterproof properly, I prefer laticrete 9235, but that grout joint its the killer on this video, why just why, you could've center with the line on the floor or center a length full to the line on the floor and 2 small pieces on the side, there were other options you pick the most unpleasant one, also people should be ban from using tile for the top of the curb, get a full length of stone from a stone shop you'll be surprised how economical usually is the scrap inventory at one of this shop
Your videos are very good and informative. I have no idea why I am watching them, I will never in my life lay any tile, but I sure would hire you to do it!
great video everything you say and all your techniques I am agree to them!!! I really hate when contractor say do not put screws on the curve but how in the hell we are suppoused to do it???? I think screws are are ok as longest we seal them with redguard or aqua membrane right???
The best method for not leaving any screws on the inside of your pan is this. First you take measurements of both sides of the curb framing after the pan liner is installed and then take the width of the curb and combine theses numbers and add 4 inches. Keep track of the numbers relative to the inside and outside measurements. Transfer these measurements to a piece of durrock or other concrete sheet product. The combined measurements plus 4 inches by the length of your curb. Cut the piece and Mark your side measurements and snap a chalk line the length of the piece using the outside measurements first then the width of the top and another chalk line and the inside measurements minus 1\2 inch. you will want to turn the board over and snap the last line on the back. Now go ahead and score the lines not cutting all the way through snap each line creating a three sided u that will slide over the curb with the last line cut on the back creating a flap that is flat on the floor. Place your curb and screw the out side of the of the curb face with exterior screws and pack the shower pan mud up against the inside trapping the flap under the pan float mix creating the screw less curb. Then tape and red guard all of your exposed seams and your in business.
I used to build my shower curbs this way. But after seeing so many pans fail at the curb (as well as benches and niches) a few years ago started building them out of concrete. To the question of why not redguard the top of the pan.....in some cases I have done that....generally when I am building a pan larger than 20 square feet as well as when ever I have to seam the liner, I always redguard the top of the concrete. In those cases, I am not worried about mold, because I am confident in my pre-slope moving any moisture
great video, thanks. I think I would have preferred placing 3 tiles on the top of the curb. This way you don't have to worry about a continues long grout and it would look better matching the pattern of the bathroom floor
Starr Tile, I can tell you take your time to do your prep work. I can see you good install work. Why not do your shower pans according to the TCA or building codes? there is no way your shower pans would pass building inspections. Many home owners save for years to remodel their baths or even take out loans. I think we as experts in a trade owe it to our clients to give them the best possible job, you'll be spending a bit more money and time but it's very well worth it. No hate it's just that I think if your going to teach something teach it the proper way to do it.
I appreciate your comment and your thoughts about my work. Go to any construction sight and look how showers are put together, after 18 years in this business I've yet to see one done RIGHT by the builder, yet they pass inspection...and my methods are 100 times better than what they did, I tear them out every week for years & see where failures are. I've also NEVER been on a call back, never had a failure, and I do things the way I know it works...your way is different, next guy is different, but if they work then that's what matters. Ever lived in another country where TCA and other "codes" are nonexistent ?? I have, and guess what, their methods work and they are not ours. So you're saying there's only one proper way to do things, and my particular way is wrong but it works. In the end the internet teaches the customer, they choose me or another guy based on what I show, or what the next guy shows. By the way, I make NOTHING on material and am paid for my time, so no reason to not do things as YOU think they should be done EXCEPT it lacks common sense. But feel free to call me anytime, we can discuss ;-)
About to do that stupid mesh and cement method I read up online and redguard after too but this makes alot more sense. Thanks for the video and Ill be subscribing and checking out more!
Starrtile , your tile work is nice. But your prep work is all wrong. Your showers will leak and create mold in your mortar bed . Eventually making its way thru your shower floor tile. You did not pre- gauge under your pan liner. You also put screws in your curb below the water line. All that would be fine if you red guard all the way to the drain. But you don't. So the water in your shower will get through the grout lines on your floor tile it will saturate your wetbed . Then it will make it's way to your screw holes and begin to leak into the subfloor and eventually to the room below. Your green board is also exposed to the water because you have it set into your mortar bed which is getting wet because you didn't red guard the entire floor to the drain. These mistakes may not show there damage for a couple years or months but they are there guaranteed . I am a master tile setter for 30 years . I set with all the new and old school procedures. What you are teaching is absolutely wrong.
Some of the points that you make are correct, however there are a lot of things that you are not aware of, I have a 20 or 30 minute video that does not cover the whole week process... and there are a lot of things that you are totally wrong about... but I hear what you are saying and understand fully. And although your 30 years may trump my 20, my jobs will stand the test of time. I would suggest watching my video "100 year shower".
@14:30 The homeowner is the reason you redguard out past the shower curb. Something the old timers taught me: Always assume the homeowner is an idiot Try to build things idiot-proof, and make it sturdy enough to fuck on, lol.
Will have to agree with others. Should always slope your liner, doing so will prevent any chance of shower smelling later on due to water sitting in corners and not draining. Also, would never make any penatrations thru dam. Even though you sealed it if a shower door is put on and drilled and screwed thru the top of the dam it will leak over time. Usually take 6-8 years plus before problems arise. Seen it to many times. Other than that tile lay is pretty good. Not putting you down just trying to advise of problems I have seen
Although I appreciate your ( advice ), all you said I'm aware of. The preslope I disagree with and have videos explaining why, so I won't go into that here. The extreme off chance that a glass guy drills into the curb, he will & should silicone the holes prior to screwing into them...in addition to the bottom rail in front & back. And I allowed your comment cuz you were nice ;-)
I agree. Preslope is a must-have. That's why there are weep-holes in the shower drain. When the outer edges of the pan are 1 1/2" below the weep holes, that means that the pan has to fill with 1 1/2" of water before those weep holes will drain it away. Imagine 1 1/2 inches of water in the mud under the tile for years and years and years, stinking and looking for a way to leak into the house. When you bill $3,500 for a shower, you can afford to spend a few extra hours doing the job right. There's a lot of yap-yap-yap from these fast-and-dirty Contractors, but the most important thing to remember is that they're wrong. Everything else they have to say is just a continuation of being wrong, or an excuse for being wrong, or a way to redirect attention away from the fact that they are wrong, or a way to make you feel better about the fact that they are wrong. But they're still wrong. Yap, yap, yap = "I'm wrong, and won't admit it."
Bottom flange is flush with floor, the most water can build up is that 1/4"...plus there are troughs at bottom and top of flange before weep holes. Wet is wet, preslope or not, it's on a time clock. There's absolutely no proof preslopes work..the Emperor is naked.
Wish you did in home consultations ...lol .. I've watched almost every video on building a shower pan and feel like I might of messed up... Me and wife doing our first bathroom renovation
VERY VERY VERY Helpful videos. I have done two basement finishes and now going to conquer a tile shower. What is depth of mortar at side of shower? I see you slope down to approx 2" as that is the height you discussed of the screw in drain cap. Thanks in advance for your videos and time to answer.
No i have not tried any of this but i know for sure that mildew needs 4 thing to grow, 1 Humidity 2 Oxygen 3 A temperature be tween 5 and 25 C 4 Something to feed upon, (Like wood) Within the mortar bed there is one thing missing and that is the feeding element (mortar does not rot) and if you apply a liquid membrane over you are removing the oxygen. Just my gut feeling.Anyone ?
I have replaced so many wood curbs that swelled and cracked I will not do them that way. I pour them in cement and use aqua defense as a pan . the aqua defense is great in that it stops all moisture from absorbing into the wall cavity.
As a plumbing contractor in Dade County Florida for about 40 years.It seems to me that this work would not pass an inspection as required by the National Plumbing Code. It is quite evident that the person doing this video has not served an apprenticeship in plumbing.
+tommy joe Bassing And that makes you an expert on which part of this exactly ? Building a shower curb has ZIP to do with 40 years of plumbing...sheeeeesh, trolls on RUclips are a weird bunch.
+StarrTile It seems like you are a jack of all trades and a master on none,I was a plumbing inspector for 45 years,and if you like ,for a nominal fee I will give you a live demonstration of the correct way to do the job. your work looks very nice from my monitor.If you go on line to Otay products they will show you the proper way to do the curb. no nails or screws on the inside and on the top of the curb. the rock is secured with thin set or liquid nails.The rest of your performance was right on que.
+tommy joe Bassing Well I'm allowing your ( next ) comment here because I'm bored today, but otherwise I would just ignore you. To your first comment, a plumbing inspector for 40 years 5 days ago, today it's 45 years is it ? LOL, ok. As far as "master of none", you obviously know not which you speak. Doing tile, and specifically bathroom renovations for 17 years with not ONE call back makes me a bit more than a jack of a trade...you don't last in any field as a "hack". But I understand you know very little of my profession so I'm not offended by your unprofessional opinion. As to Oaty, they are NOT tile setters, they are manufacturers of plumbing parts, and I'm very aware of their video that shows ( many incorrect ) methods of doing both shower pans & curbs. Although there are various methods out there, I would NEVER EVER use liquid nails on any job I do, nor would I warranty such work. They also show setting wallboard flush with bottom of pan, INSIDE the liner, then pour the pan. That is totally incorrect and a huge mistake. As to your "offer" to show me anything for a "fee", I think I'll pass on that, my customers are my critics and my work is right here to watch, they agree I'm doing it right and hire me, or they don't.
Instead of a curb up you can also make a recession or channel that drains to the drain, shower door would go behind, i made this since my mom cant realy lift her leg over the curb
I have torn out hundreds of showers that have failed. Let me assure you that putting screws thru the pan liner on the inside or top of the curb is a pretty sure fire way to build a shower that will fail!
You obviously didn't watch the entire video. The curb/wallboard is buttered & redgarded, no water will ever see those screws....assuming water gets into the curb, which it won't ;-)
You almost do it right...I would never use screws or nails in a pan liner below the curb..Mud the curb...You should Redgard the entire showerpan or water will eventually wick through the mud into the walls behind the Redgard...
First of all...LOVE the videos you make. You're very passionate and the quality of your is impressive. Thought...instead of screwing the durarock through the inside pan curb wall and liner, could you attach it w/ construction adhesive instead?
+Brent Beers Thanks for the kind words... Possible I could use adhesive but then it's a "floating" curb, sticking wallboard to rubber liner would worry me...anyway buttering & 3 coats of Redgard insures screwing ( or nailing ) is not a problem.
when you screwed the curb cement board to 2 x 4's you put holes in the rubber liner. If water ever got behind cement board the liner would not be water tight. isn't this a problem ?
I stop mold by puting a sloap to the weeps in the drain so that the mud bed changes water with every shower . you need it to slope too the drain before you put in a liner and it will never mold.
That is a good theory that many people work on, but it is fake science, a way it appears that you like to comment on all of my videos, I would suggest you get your own channel so you can show everyone the way you do things
Not sure about your coding there, but preslope is essential. Prevent pooling,mold,etc. wall board looking for a place to have a problem. Regard is great stuff ... Use it myself. Good video, just need to improve ur technique. Take care
Comment appreciated, look for PRE SLOPE EXPLAINED to understand why I don't believe in them. As to codes, go to construction sights, you'll never see one installed.
I would have paid you handsomely to salvage that grout line on the curb to match with the floor tile. It would drive me bonkers to see that mis-match lol.
once again thanks for the excellent videos...very knowledgeable. i wanted to ask you a quick question for the shower curb can hardy backer be used and when u say "butter" does that mean the thin set?. iF i am using hardy board for my wall. .will red gard work? i am thinking that the thin set goes over the red gard when installing tile? what would be the best position for a drain on an upstairs bathroom? Thank you so much for your feedback..first time DIY..
Yes buttering means thinset. Yes hardi is fine. Yes Redgard it all. Yes thinset is spread on Redgarded walls for tile install. Best spot for drain is the middle.
in australia it is law that the entire bathroom is tanked using a latex type product. corners and joins have fiberglass mat imbedded in the latex. the showers are tanked to the height of the tiling.
Great job taking the time to do everything near perfect... Wish some of us tilers that did these jobs actually got paid enough to do them this well and have the time. How long do jobs like this normally take you?
In your opinion is there a downside to apply redgard all the way down to the drain vs stopping near the wall perimeter? Also - you mentioned you painted the side of the tile that goes on top of the curb - what did you paint it with?
+Aaron Schafer I'm not QUITE comfortable painting Redgard up to drain, not sure why...other tilers do it....perhaps one day I'll start. I believe the painting of the tile edge comment was to hide the unfinished edge of the tile on the curb...any matching paint will do.
Hi Mr Doyle. I enjoy watching your videos. I removed a fiberglass shower pan and it has a hole around the pipe? I know you don't like to do preslope before laying shower liner. Is it ok to fill this empty hole with mortar so that the liner is supported properly?
+Dmitry Savy Not sure how big the hole is, I normally cut a square, strips of wood screwed from under, cut same square size out of scrap wood & set in it, screw it down....or if it's small then mortar works great too.
First off thank you for the videos. It's amazing to see all the incorrect things done in showers that you have to fix! It looks like you typically use pan liner and I'm wondering if you ever use hot mop? And if not is it because of time or cost?
Great videos. I'm in the early planning stages of putting in a 4x5 shower and was wondering if you have ever worked with radiant heat grids for the floor and shower bench? If you did, is there a video I could reference. Any thought would be appreciated. Thanks
Very informational, and very helpful. However, your camera is way too close to the work. I get dizzy watching the video. A stationary camera may be a better option. Other wise very helpful.
surely brick or foam is a better material for a curb than wood? even if the waterproofing is great, why take the risk? stuff can move as the building shifts..
Grout lines that are an inch apart (center of curb and floor tile) are no bueno. Should have staggered the row of floor tile next to the curb better or used 3 pieces on top of the curb to break up butt joints that close.
I'm not sure if staggering this would work all that well either. If you stagger the vertical portion of the curb tile to match the floor, you'll have an uneven 3 sections, which I grant would look alright, likely better than how he arranged it. If you were to keep the same grout lines on top, that could work, but if the top of the curb is then staggered to the vertical tiles, you may end up with a sliver cut on the left side of the curb top, depending on the length of those tiles. I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this. Should the curb have continuous grout lines through the vertical/horizontal transitions?
Like I said.there was no waterproofing 40 years ago.workmenship last 30year. What failed was lead pans or copper pan.do the same craftsmanship and waterproof now you have lasting shower. Check Michael Byrne setting tile.
What happened to old school way wire mesh and mud. No nails in curve. I leave 3in around the drain when I waterproof floor so water can go straight the to weep holes.
I can do the metal lathe and mud curbs and underlayment. Adds at least 30% more to the cost, but the walls are flatter, stronger, less likely to move around and crack and the pans don't leak since there's no wood inside them to swell if water does happen to penetrate.
It's a whole system. If you put the shower on 4" of concrete with little to no base gravel with inadequate rebar and there's a lot of subsidence (soil expansion and contraction due to moisture variation), the slab IS going to crack and it doesn't matter what materials and methods were used to build the shower. The walls move, the corners separate, water penetrates and it's all over. 10% of the overall house construction budget is concrete and it's a natural and common place for Builders to cut corners. Slab not thick enough, base gravel not thick enough, not enough rebar, no concrete beams in the slab, bad soil, bad drainage, all add up to serious problems in the future. I've seen old-school 75 asphalt & felt-paper pans on 2nd story pier-and-beam houses with a mud set installation in perfect condition, despite everything else in the house moving around, and I didn a total tear-out and replacement of a $4,500 double shower with glass block walls because the illegal mexican laborer used roofing nails to fasten the shower pan to the plywood deck underneath the expensive mosaic tile on the floor of the shower. I just LOVE it when liberals get burned by illegal Mexican labor. LOVE it. I wake up some nights laughing sometimes.
I am in the process of doing my 1st ever custom shower pan... I believe I missed my opportunity to do a leak test when I just had the Oatey liner in place. I now have the sloped mud bed and was preparing to go full force with painting on Redgard and doing a leak test then - until I read about the mold sandwich created by both the liner AND complete Redgard. I then figured on doing like you did - just the corners and curb. I want to know if doing a leak test after just the corners and curb are Redgarded - if having the mud bed saturated with the water for 24 hrs is bad. My intuition tells me no, no, no... but my woman's stubbornness still wants to try the leak test. I agree with leaving the thinner portion of the mud exposed for evaporation if needed - seems most logical. Also - regarding the use of fiberglass mesh embedded with the Redgard on all corners... I plan on doing this.. seems logical. Do you use this? Mainly though, please advise on leak testing on bare mud. Thanks!
Hey Bob, for your curb tiles, do you grout the gap between the vertical and horizontal tiles, or do you caulk them? Thanks in advance. Your videos are great by the way.
I thought you were supposed to leave like 6-12 inches of the wall off, from the floor up? So if moisture gets into the floor it can't work its way up the wall
6-12 inches ?? Nooooooo...ideally leave a small gap where wall meets floor, maybe 3/4'' if you mean the wall/floor. If you mean pan liner, yes Ideally at least 4'' up the wall, try to get 6'' and if there's more then great.
great video, very precise information, question for you, since you installed mold resistant drywall, with red-guard, what kind of mortar/thinset (modified/non-modified) would you use to install tiles on the walls?
Hello, I could not catch what you said regarding the edge of the tile on top of the curb. I think it was paint the outside edge and leave the inside edge as is. Is this correct and what type of paint do you recommend? I have the exact issue you mention. My curb top is just over 5 inches so I want to use the same time tile as the shower walls. Struggling with how to handle the edge. Some say polish it with a hand sander but your idea sounds simpler to do. BTW, I am doing my first shower and your videos have been great!
Yes I mentioned painting the outside edge, with an oil based paint....OR find a tile guy to bullnose & paint them. I prefer the solid one piece curb top. And thanks for the compliment, glad I could help out ;-)
StarrTile what would you say the problem would be if one were to use a clamp to hold your, in pan, durock cut against your 4 2x4's and then dry pack with some bonding agent added.....not using any screws in the inside but letting the weight of the mortar pan and bonding agent meld/merge it into one solid piece. Afterwards, and once cured, adding the other two pieces of Durock cement board cut outs?
I use Silicone Caulking. It works perfect without screws. FYI I liked everything you said until you said RedGuard on your installation and techniques. I have over 30 years of Tile setting experience.
I've seen silicone fail on many applications, so for the long haul I wouldn't trust it...but each to their own way of doing things. And nothing wrong with Redgard, it's a great product.
Excellent videos you are making. Thank you for taking your time to do them. I'm watching all the videos I can as I'm working through my first shower job at home. Do you happen to have a video on installing a 36" linier drain?
So, I am a bit confused. What happened between laying the waterproof liner and you speaking about something drying? Did I miss something? Do you do all of this in addition to adding a shower pan or instead of? Please and thank you !
I'm confused by your question... Liner goes in, drain set, pan is poured & dried, wallboard goes up as does the backer on the curb, curb is buttered, the whole thing is waterproofed with Redgard...almost every step requires dry time.
Great video, I'm trying to teach myself so I can rebuild my shower at home, can you tell me about this process vs the process of hotmopping? Is a hotmop not necessary?
+jim likens Hotmopping is popular out west & I think the north too. Don't know a lot about it except videos I've seen, seems like you're tarring your roof ! The point is to make things ( materials ) in your shower waterproof, the easiest way possible...in my humble opinion anyway.
You are completely wrong on all accounts, but I will hold back debating with you because I don't do that on my channel nor do I allow it, if you want to discuss it then call me
Man o man o man here in Australia we mostly use a product called wet seal fibreglass matting fitted to the base over shower hob and up the verticle corners oh so simple compared to this.
Actually wood curbs don't fail always...they fail when not waterproofed, and or the tile is not slanted, and or the grout is not sealed or mixed too thin...among some other issues. Making a curb of cement is great if time allows, but residual wood rot issues on outer subfloor will still occur if the prep isn't done right.
Most people don't do it properly though. Here in mn. You can't even use wood curbs. Inspectors won't allow it. Has to be cement or a weddi/kerdi system.
They're fast and easy and they fail. And if/when water penetrates they expand and destroy the whole installation, vs. a little bit of water hitting concrete does nothing at all. There's no argument here. It's one thing to argue that they are "good enough" and "adequate" and you could also say that most people won't pay for the additional time to do a non-wood curb, but not BS anyone by saying they're "just as good" or even close to being just as good, because that's just lying. Half my jobs are on showers where the 1st guy did a wood curb. A few more hours doing the job right could save thousands in a few years.
Thanks for doing this video ! I'm getting ready to make my curb using the same materials. just to confirm, what do you use to adhere the rubber to the wood curb?
I am considering a contractor for a shower. I have demo to the studs. For tile backer they use what he is calling fiber board. Do you know what it is and is it acceptable? Thanks so much. Your videos are awesome!
+Ronald Miley First off, thanks for the compliment. As to the question. I think what you refer to is a USG product called Fiber Rock. It's basically like making plywood where there are layers of compressed material. I've taken out this soaked material before and it turns in to a mush, like oatmeal, if that's the board you speak of. However the idea is to negate water from entering ( any ) board you chose, first by setting board AFTER pan is poured, not before...and using a topical membrane on it like Redgard. Doing those things will insure it's waterproof regardless the board you use.
Hello, would the grout line on the curb be vulnerable to stress or leaks since the top and the sides lined up perfectly? Based on your previous videos, I expected you to stagger the top by using three pieces instead.
+Teresa Haw Not at all, first off curbs are nearly NEVER stepped on, second the pan liner separates the curb from the tile so there is no stress...and thirdly sanded grout is very strong, very rare it ever comes out.
+piero zito There are two folds in the back & two at curb so doesn't matter. I would never cut the excess at the curb because it requires glue and cut/glue does not trump a fold.
You are able to get rid of the folds at the curb. You have it folded to the wall. I cut mine in a way that it goes right across top of curb. I end up with a little fold I place on riser. If I could post a pic on here I would.
the white thinset you use to "butter" the curb, is that the same thinset (grey instead of white?) you would use to adhere the tile throughout the shower? Also, what are your thoughts on a product I saw at home depot called "fusion pro" grout?
Yes it is the same thinset for setting tile. The fusion pro grout I've seen but never used...it is pricey and not a huge fan of pre mixed grout, thinking they're trying to compete with mapei pre mix which is a good product but very expensive
Fusion pro is a bitch. It drys really fast and was a two man operation for me. One person just to keep ringing out the towels and sponges. Im glad I used it. It makes good promises and seems really strong when I tried to scratch it. You need a sponge to wipe the bulk off and then you need a microfiber to get the last bit off before it hazes over. I would grout 4 or 6 max of 12" tiles before wiping down the grout. any more and I couldn't catch up to it hazing over.
So I've got a MK tile saw it uses a 7" blade I'm laying 12x24" in a kitchen using porcelain tile I'd like to get a hot dog blade from MK but no one sells them in my area. Whats a good blade to use on that saw its the 270M with that type of tile? I'll also have to use it on my tabletop type saw as the home depot brand saw stinks for cutting porcelain tile with the stock blade. I got my MK without a water pan is it worth buying a new pan or should I just improvise one with a cement mixing tray and some 2x4" Humm I could build one out of 2x6" add a bottom of plywood and coat it with 3-4 layers of red guard or fiberglass resin.
HEY STARR, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR U ,IM PREPING WALLS FOR TILE WITH HARDY BACKER SOME TILEGUYS DO AND SOME DON'T BUT SHOUL IT BE A MOISTURE BARRIER ON BACK OF HARDY BACKER OR JUST HARDY BACKER WITH JUST DOBLE FACE INSULATION IN THE BACK SOME CONTRACTORS WILL NOT DO NOTHING IN THE BACK BUT INSULATION SINCE MOISTURE BARRIER AND HARDY BACKER WILL CREATE MOLD IF MOISTURE GETS IN BETWEEN... THANK YOU ! GREAT VIDEOS
I've seen 2 videos where in one the green board is about an inch off the floor, and you put the tile under it, in this one it looks like you have the board all the way to the shower pan and red guard all of it ... is this way, better than the other as long as I red guard the shower pan?
StarrTile thank you so much... learning so much from you!... I just sloped my first shower pan, so far looks like you were here doing it!.... truly grateful !
+Dmitry Savy No idea, the field tile is grey porcelain and the floor is a mosaic ( which I would never do on a shower floor ). Both bought at Floor & Decor.
I have fiberglass shower base that has copper water lines going to a tub. Can I build a curb that allows room for the copper pipes. Another option is to go with onyx shower base. thanks
Hey Bob. Thanks for everything you do on here! A quick question; at 18:50 when you put the top tile down on the curb, did you say you "painted it"? If so can you explain? Thanks.
Remodeling our bathroom that was a half bath and now adding in a shower. Debating to have a curb or not but do we need to take out the floor to slant the floor either way? Which way do you think is easier?
Just subscribed: I've been watching videos because I need to "want" to do my own shower and know NOTHING. So, here is my first dumb question, I don't have a wood base floor. Under my existing shower pan "plastic insert" is my cement foundation. So, what would be the layers that I need to build on to this to make my shower pan? Do I need to add a wood to my cement foundation?
Your foundation is irrelevant to how a shower is built, the only difference is you cannot move your drain to Center if it's not already done so... well actually you could but it would be a lot more work... the only other difference would be how to fasten the curb , I do it with a bang gun, otherwise the process is same.
Thanks, I've been watching some of your other video's so I know what your talking about. I had my tub changed to a plastic shower a few years ago, but my BIG mother-in-law obliterated it. The drain is to the side, but I don't know what it really looks like around the drain now. So, if around the drain was not filled in with cement should I fill it in with cement (saw this in one of your other video's you changed a tub to shower)?
If you use a topical membrane, Redgard, Aqua Defense, Schluter, does not matter what, then the backer doesn't either...you're attaching your tile to the water proofer, not the backer. You can use what you want, cardboard or concrete, but waterproofing it negates the material used.
Quick question, if you're using RedGard, why do you still use a pvc liner on the curb? I'm asking because the guy at Home Depot said I don't need a pvc liner if I'm using RedGard. Great videos btw.
Although the makers of Redgard say you can use their product as a pan liner, I would NEVER risk it...a true liner is a pvc liner, and it should be one continues piece that goes over the curb.
Red guard is your first line of defense and it works great! your pan liner is your second line of defense. On a tangent, Your Greenboard or Hardie backer is your second line of defense on the walls. Ive only done my personal shower and I did it with hardie. Lots of people including starrtile use greed board which is allowed and much easier but If water gets to the green board you're in trouble. Although You're still in trouble if it gets to your hardie board haha. Just that with green board you'll know about it faster. One place of concern for me is the area around the fixtures if water seeps just a little through there to the back of the green board you're in trouble again. I would personally red guard around the inside of the hole and on the backside before hanging my green board. Maybe just one coat to be safe.
What if you did the cement board on the 2x4s, applied the Redgard, and THEN did the shower pan liner + cement pour after? Just curious to why you did the cement board AFTER the pan liner and cement pour. Thanks!! ..trying to plan a reno myself :)
+Kyle Barnes I suppose it could be done as you said...but how to wrap the ( finished ) curb with the liner ? What holds it into place at that point ? Also the tile on the curb can't be set on liner, it needs a porous surface to adhere to.
i wrap mine with stucco wire and float it. that way you dont have to put screws threw the inside pan to install the strip of. dura rock. 100 percent waterproof to the top of the curb. learned from an old school setter down here in tennessee
Your videos helped me out a lot with my first shower install. Keep up the good work, bud.
I have found over the years that there are several methods of building a tile shower. Some are good and some just shouldn't be done at all. This video is actually pretty close to how I do it as well, with a slight difference. When I do my rubber liner, I cut all my corners in and use a glue specifically made for the rubber I am using. When I am done, I take the liner out of the shower and take it outside. I fill it with water to make sure it's sealed completely. Then I will dry it and put it back in the shower, then cut the hole for the drain and seal around the drain, making sure I puncture for the weep holes. I will then attach it to the blocking around the shower walls by using a pin nailer at the very top edge of the liner. I've seen some people put the liner in first then drywall over it, so the drywall is on the inside of the liner, but I find this kind of silly. I always put the liner in after the drywall so the liner can go on the surface of the drywall. I like this because it will naturally kick the bottom tiles out slightly and direct the water away from the joint between the floor and wall. The floor I do just like this video, it's the curb that I do a little different. I do the Hardibacker on the vertical surfaces of the curb and screw it in, but for the top I float that with mortar. I use the edges of the Hardibacker to set the slope on the top of the curb and the mortar fills in any gaps and creates a solid surface. Once all that is done, I finish it up by Redgarding everything. I don't like pre sloping the mortar for the floor either, I have found it's just as fast to slope the floor while setting the tile, especially if a larger tile has been chosen. I always use an adjustable drain so I can adjust the drain to the tile instead of the other way around, so much faster. Last but not least, there are always going to be people that criticize how other people do things. Not because it's wrong, just because it's not THEIR way. There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say. As long as you do good work, stand behind it and the customer is happy, what else is there to do. Thanks for the video and happy contracting.
+Aaron Adams Hello, when you cut the corners in and then glue, is there any overlapping? If not, won't the seams be vulnerable?
+Aaron Adams go to the apprentice camp one more time please
Aaron Adams what you describe sounds like a disaster. I hope you are not in the shower stall business, only stating how you did your own shower.
Oh No Bueno on you pan liners. It will fail within the year. You never put pan liner on the outside of your drywall because if water ever does seep thru, which it will, You will have water damage and mold growing in your wall. Besides that you cannot bond tile onto the pan liner. Listen to the other 3 comments Above.
I am absolutely amazed at the time you are taking to build a "Model T" shower. With 25 years of experience, many of the early years building showers like this, I have moved into the 21st Century and only use WEDI technology. The cost offset by the labor saved and the perfect waterproof seal ELIMINATES the weakness of concrete base, wood curb methods. I have removed dozens of failed concrete/membrane based showers only to reveal the "septic tank" stink of moldy moisture soaked cement. Moisture control needs to be above the base, not below
Great tutorial, I also have never had a problem screwing the cement board on top of the rubber pan at the curb if its waterproof properly, I prefer laticrete 9235, but that grout joint its the killer on this video, why just why, you could've center with the line on the floor or center a length full to the line on the floor and 2 small pieces on the side, there were other options you pick the most unpleasant one, also people should be ban from using tile for the top of the curb, get a full length of stone from a stone shop you'll be surprised how economical usually is the scrap inventory at one of this shop
Your videos are very good and informative. I have no idea why I am watching them, I will never in my life lay any tile, but I sure would hire you to do it!
LOL ! Thank you 👍
Thanks for the video. Very detailed and helpful. Ended up being the schematic to my project.
great video everything you say and all your techniques I am agree to them!!! I really hate when contractor say do not put screws on the curve but how in the hell we are suppoused to do it???? I think screws are are ok as longest we seal them with redguard or aqua membrane right???
The best method for not leaving any screws on the inside of your pan is this. First you take measurements of both sides of the curb framing after the pan liner is installed and then take the width of the curb and combine theses numbers and add 4 inches. Keep track of the numbers relative to the inside and outside measurements. Transfer these measurements to a piece of durrock or other concrete sheet product. The combined measurements plus 4 inches by the length of your curb. Cut the piece and Mark your side measurements and snap a chalk line the length of the piece using the outside measurements first then the width of the top and another chalk line and the inside measurements minus 1\2 inch. you will want to turn the board over and snap the last line on the back. Now go ahead and score the lines not cutting all the way through snap each line creating a three sided u that will slide over the curb with the last line cut on the back creating a flap that is flat on the floor. Place your curb and screw the out side of the of the curb face with exterior screws and pack the shower pan mud up against the inside trapping the flap under the pan float mix creating the screw less curb. Then tape and red guard all of your exposed seams and your in business.
I used to build my shower curbs this way. But after seeing so many pans fail at the curb (as well as benches and niches) a few years ago started building them out of concrete. To the question of why not redguard the top of the pan.....in some cases I have done that....generally when I am building a pan larger than 20 square feet as well as when ever I have to seam the liner, I always redguard the top of the concrete. In those cases, I am not worried about mold, because I am confident in my pre-slope moving any moisture
great video, thanks. I think I would have preferred placing 3 tiles on the top of the curb. This way you don't have to worry about a continues long grout and it would look better matching the pattern of the bathroom floor
Thanks
Starr Tile, I can tell you take your time to do your prep work. I can see you good install work. Why not do your shower pans according to the TCA or building codes? there is no way your shower pans would pass building inspections. Many home owners save for years to remodel their baths or even take out loans. I think we as experts in a trade owe it to our clients to give them the best possible job, you'll be spending a bit more money and time but it's very well worth it. No hate it's just that I think if your going to teach something teach it the proper way to do it.
I appreciate your comment and your thoughts about my work. Go to any construction sight and look how showers are put together, after 18 years in this business I've yet to see one done RIGHT by the builder, yet they pass inspection...and my methods are 100 times better than what they did, I tear them out every week for years & see where failures are. I've also NEVER been on a call back, never had a failure, and I do things the way I know it works...your way is different, next guy is different, but if they work then that's what matters.
Ever lived in another country where TCA and other "codes" are nonexistent ?? I have, and guess what, their methods work and they are not ours. So you're saying there's only one proper way to do things, and my particular way is wrong but it works. In the end the internet teaches the customer, they choose me or another guy based on what I show, or what the next guy shows. By the way, I make NOTHING on material and am paid for my time, so no reason to not do things as YOU think they should be done EXCEPT it lacks common sense.
But feel free to call me anytime, we can discuss ;-)
very juvenile john.
I would have done the face in three pieces so the grout lines are staggered. Very nice job.
About to do that stupid mesh and cement method I read up online and redguard after too but this makes alot more sense. Thanks for the video and Ill be subscribing and checking out more!
Starrtile , your tile work is nice. But your prep work is all wrong. Your showers will leak and create mold in your mortar bed . Eventually making its way thru your shower floor tile. You did not pre- gauge under your pan liner. You also put screws in your curb below the water line. All that would be fine if you red guard all the way to the drain. But you don't. So the water in your shower will get through the grout lines on your floor tile it will saturate your wetbed . Then it will make it's way to your screw holes and begin to leak into the subfloor and eventually to the room below. Your green board is also exposed to the water because you have it set into your mortar bed which is getting wet because you didn't red guard the entire floor to the drain. These mistakes may not show there damage for a couple years or months but they are there guaranteed . I am a master tile setter for 30 years . I set with all the new and old school procedures. What you are teaching is absolutely wrong.
Some of the points that you make are correct, however there are a lot of things that you are not aware of, I have a 20 or 30 minute video that does not cover the whole week process... and there are a lot of things that you are totally wrong about... but I hear what you are saying and understand fully. And although your 30 years may trump my 20, my jobs will stand the test of time. I would suggest watching my video "100 year shower".
@14:30
The homeowner is the reason you redguard out past the shower curb.
Something the old timers taught me: Always assume the homeowner is an idiot Try to build things idiot-proof, and make it sturdy enough to fuck on, lol.
Will have to agree with others. Should always slope your liner, doing so will prevent any chance of shower smelling later on due to water sitting in corners and not draining. Also, would never make any penatrations thru dam. Even though you sealed it if a shower door is put on and drilled and screwed thru the top of the dam it will leak over time. Usually take 6-8 years plus before problems arise. Seen it to many times. Other than that tile lay is pretty good. Not putting you down just trying to advise of problems I have seen
Although I appreciate your ( advice ), all you said I'm aware of. The preslope I disagree with and have videos explaining why, so I won't go into that here. The extreme off chance that a glass guy drills into the curb, he will & should silicone the holes prior to screwing into them...in addition to the bottom rail in front & back.
And I allowed your comment cuz you were nice ;-)
I agree. Preslope is a must-have. That's why there are weep-holes in the shower drain. When the outer edges of the pan are 1 1/2" below the weep holes, that means that the pan has to fill with 1 1/2" of water before those weep holes will drain it away. Imagine 1 1/2 inches of water in the mud under the tile for years and years and years, stinking and looking for a way to leak into the house. When you bill $3,500 for a shower, you can afford to spend a few extra hours doing the job right. There's a lot of yap-yap-yap from these fast-and-dirty Contractors, but the most important thing to remember is that they're wrong. Everything else they have to say is just a continuation of being wrong, or an excuse for being wrong, or a way to redirect attention away from the fact that they are wrong, or a way to make you feel better about the fact that they are wrong. But they're still wrong. Yap, yap, yap = "I'm wrong, and won't admit it."
Bottom flange is flush with floor, the most water can build up is that 1/4"...plus there are troughs at bottom and top of flange before weep holes. Wet is wet, preslope or not, it's on a time clock.
There's absolutely no proof preslopes work..the Emperor is naked.
If you don't "waterproof" your whole pan, it will get saturated and create mold. Not applying Redgard right to the drain is pointless.
Wish you did in home consultations ...lol .. I've watched almost every video on building a shower pan and feel like I might of messed up... Me and wife doing our first bathroom renovation
VERY VERY VERY Helpful videos. I have done two basement finishes and now going to conquer a tile shower. What is depth of mortar at side of shower? I see you slope down to approx 2" as that is the height you discussed of the screw in drain cap.
Thanks in advance for your videos and time to answer.
No i have not tried any of this but i know for sure that mildew needs 4 thing to grow,
1 Humidity
2 Oxygen
3 A temperature be tween 5 and 25 C
4 Something to feed upon, (Like wood)
Within the mortar bed there is one thing missing and that is the feeding element (mortar does not rot) and if you apply a liquid membrane over you are removing the oxygen.
Just my gut feeling.Anyone ?
I have replaced so many wood curbs that swelled and cracked I will not do them that way. I pour them in cement and use aqua defense as a pan . the aqua defense is great in that it stops all moisture from absorbing into the wall cavity.
As a plumbing contractor in Dade County Florida for about 40 years.It seems to me that this work would not pass an inspection as required by the National Plumbing Code.
It is quite evident that the person doing this video has not served an apprenticeship in plumbing.
+tommy joe Bassing And that makes you an expert on which part of this exactly ? Building a shower curb has ZIP to do with 40 years of plumbing...sheeeeesh, trolls on RUclips are a weird bunch.
+StarrTile It seems like you are a jack of all trades and a master on none,I was a plumbing inspector for 45 years,and if you like ,for a nominal fee I will give you a live demonstration of the correct way to do the job.
your work looks very nice from my monitor.If you go on line to Otay products they will show you the proper way to do the curb. no nails or screws on the inside and on the top of the curb. the rock is secured with thin set or liquid nails.The rest of your performance was right on que.
+tommy joe Bassing Well I'm allowing your ( next ) comment here because I'm bored today, but otherwise I would just ignore you.
To your first comment, a plumbing inspector for 40 years 5 days ago, today it's 45 years is it ? LOL, ok. As far as "master of none", you obviously know not which you speak. Doing tile, and specifically bathroom renovations for 17 years with not ONE call back makes me a bit more than a jack of a trade...you don't last in any field as a "hack". But I understand you know very little of my profession so I'm not offended by your unprofessional opinion.
As to Oaty, they are NOT tile setters, they are manufacturers of plumbing parts, and I'm very aware of their video that shows ( many incorrect ) methods of doing both shower pans & curbs. Although there are various methods out there, I would NEVER EVER use liquid nails on any job I do, nor would I warranty such work. They also show setting wallboard flush with bottom of pan, INSIDE the liner, then pour the pan. That is totally incorrect and a huge mistake.
As to your "offer" to show me anything for a "fee", I think I'll pass on that, my customers are my critics and my work is right here to watch, they agree I'm doing it right and hire me, or they don't.
Instead of a curb up you can also make a recession or channel that drains to the drain, shower door would go behind, i made this since my mom cant realy lift her leg over the curb
I have torn out hundreds of showers that have failed. Let me assure you that putting screws thru the pan liner on the inside or top of the curb is a pretty sure fire way to build a shower that will fail!
You obviously didn't watch the entire video. The curb/wallboard is buttered & redgarded, no water will ever see those screws....assuming water gets into the curb, which it won't ;-)
You almost do it right...I would never use screws or nails in a pan liner below the curb..Mud the curb...You should Redgard the entire showerpan or water will eventually wick through the mud into the walls behind the Redgard...
First of all...LOVE the videos you make. You're very passionate and the quality of your is impressive. Thought...instead of screwing the durarock through the inside pan curb wall and liner, could you attach it w/ construction adhesive instead?
+Brent Beers Thanks for the kind words...
Possible I could use adhesive but then it's a "floating" curb, sticking wallboard to rubber liner would worry me...anyway buttering & 3 coats of Redgard insures screwing ( or nailing ) is not a problem.
when you screwed the curb cement board to 2 x 4's you put holes in the rubber liner. If water ever got behind cement board the liner would not be water tight. isn't this a problem ?
I stop mold by puting a sloap to the weeps in the drain so that the mud bed changes water with every shower . you need it to slope too the drain before you put in a liner and it will never mold.
That is a good theory that many people work on, but it is fake science, a way it appears that you like to comment on all of my videos, I would suggest you get your own channel so you can show everyone the way you do things
Not sure about your coding there, but preslope is essential. Prevent pooling,mold,etc. wall board looking for a place to have a problem. Regard is great stuff ... Use it myself. Good video, just need to improve ur technique. Take care
Comment appreciated, look for PRE SLOPE EXPLAINED to understand why I don't believe in them.
As to codes, go to construction sights, you'll never see one installed.
I would have paid you handsomely to salvage that grout line on the curb to match with the floor tile. It would drive me bonkers to see that mis-match lol.
Yes it is very subjective , it would drive me bonkers to have uneven cuts on the top
3 tiles instead of 2 and the grout line would not show
once again thanks for the excellent videos...very knowledgeable. i wanted to ask you a quick question for the shower curb can hardy backer be used and when u say "butter" does that mean the thin set?. iF i am using hardy board for my wall. .will red gard work? i am thinking that the thin set goes over the red gard when installing tile? what would be the best position for a drain on an upstairs bathroom? Thank you so much for your feedback..first time DIY..
Yes buttering means thinset. Yes hardi is fine. Yes Redgard it all. Yes thinset is spread on Redgarded walls for tile install.
Best spot for drain is the middle.
+StarrTile thank you brotha..is there a particular thin set you recommend for restrooms..modified ?
Almost always use modified
in australia it is law that the entire bathroom is tanked using a latex type product. corners and joins have fiberglass mat imbedded in the latex. the showers are tanked to the height of the tiling.
Did you say China?? No wait I think it was Australia
weve had no trouble, only trouble we have here, is the same as you. 9 out of 10 tradesmen are morons
Pretty much
Great job taking the time to do everything near perfect... Wish some of us tilers that did these jobs actually got paid enough to do them this well and have the time. How long do jobs like this normally take you?
About 6 days
I just use Block for the curb and thin set it in and fill the holes opposed to 2x4 and screws etc.
In your opinion is there a downside to apply redgard all the way down to the drain vs stopping near the wall perimeter? Also - you mentioned you painted the side of the tile that goes on top of the curb - what did you paint it with?
+Aaron Schafer I'm not QUITE comfortable painting Redgard up to drain, not sure why...other tilers do it....perhaps one day I'll start. I believe the painting of the tile edge comment was to hide the unfinished edge of the tile on the curb...any matching paint will do.
Does the curb need to have a slope sloping towards the shower? Or can it be level?
Hi Mr Doyle. I enjoy watching your videos. I removed a fiberglass shower pan and it has a hole around the pipe? I know you don't like to do preslope before laying shower liner. Is it ok to fill this empty hole with mortar so that the liner is supported properly?
+Dmitry Savy Not sure how big the hole is, I normally cut a square, strips of wood screwed from under, cut same square size out of scrap wood & set in it, screw it down....or if it's small then mortar works great too.
3 pcs on the curb would of looked better for that grout line. It's an eye catcher!
First off thank you for the videos. It's amazing to see all the incorrect things done in showers that you have to fix! It looks like you typically use pan liner and I'm wondering if you ever use hot mop? And if not is it because of time or cost?
I don't know how, even though I'm originally from California where it's done a lot, I didn't start doing this type of work until I move to Atlanta
Thanks for the response! Maybe it's more of a regional thing.
Great videos. I'm in the early planning stages of putting in a 4x5 shower and was wondering if you have ever worked with radiant heat grids for the floor and shower bench? If you did, is there a video I could reference. Any thought would be appreciated. Thanks
Very informational, and very helpful. However, your camera is way too close to the work. I get dizzy watching the video. A stationary camera may be a better option. Other wise very helpful.
Great job. Very good info
surely brick or foam is a better material for a curb than wood? even if the waterproofing is great, why take the risk? stuff can move as the building shifts..
Grout lines that are an inch apart (center of curb and floor tile) are no bueno. Should have staggered the row of floor tile next to the curb better or used 3 pieces on top of the curb to break up butt joints that close.
I'm not sure if staggering this would work all that well either. If you stagger the vertical portion of the curb tile to match the floor, you'll have an uneven 3 sections, which I grant would look alright, likely better than how he arranged it. If you were to keep the same grout lines on top, that could work, but if the top of the curb is then staggered to the vertical tiles, you may end up with a sliver cut on the left side of the curb top, depending on the length of those tiles. I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this. Should the curb have continuous grout lines through the vertical/horizontal transitions?
Like I said.there was no waterproofing 40 years ago.workmenship last 30year. What failed was lead pans or copper pan.do the same craftsmanship and waterproof now you have lasting shower. Check Michael Byrne setting tile.
What happened to old school way wire mesh and mud. No nails in curve. I leave 3in around the drain when I waterproof floor so water can go straight the to weep holes.
Old school they never waterproofed anything...sometimes new ways are better
I can do the metal lathe and mud curbs and underlayment. Adds at least 30% more to the cost, but the walls are flatter, stronger, less likely to move around and crack and the pans don't leak since there's no wood inside them to swell if water does happen to penetrate.
It's a whole system. If you put the shower on 4" of concrete with little to no base gravel with inadequate rebar and there's a lot of subsidence (soil expansion and contraction due to moisture variation), the slab IS going to crack and it doesn't matter what materials and methods were used to build the shower. The walls move, the corners separate, water penetrates and it's all over. 10% of the overall house construction budget is concrete and it's a natural and common place for Builders to cut corners. Slab not thick enough, base gravel not thick enough, not enough rebar, no concrete beams in the slab, bad soil, bad drainage, all add up to serious problems in the future.
I've seen old-school 75 asphalt & felt-paper pans on 2nd story pier-and-beam houses with a mud set installation in perfect condition, despite everything else in the house moving around, and I didn a total tear-out and replacement of a $4,500 double shower with glass block walls because the illegal mexican laborer used roofing nails to fasten the shower pan to the plywood deck underneath the expensive mosaic tile on the floor of the shower. I just LOVE it when liberals get burned by illegal Mexican labor. LOVE it. I wake up some nights laughing sometimes.
tell the truth you ran out of red guard lol
I am in the process of doing my 1st ever custom shower pan... I believe I missed my opportunity to do a leak test when I just had the Oatey liner in place. I now have the sloped mud bed and was preparing to go full force with painting on Redgard and doing a leak test then - until I read about the mold sandwich created by both the liner AND complete Redgard. I then figured on doing like you did - just the corners and curb. I want to know if doing a leak test after just the corners and curb are Redgarded - if having the mud bed saturated with the water for 24 hrs is bad. My intuition tells me no, no, no... but my woman's stubbornness still wants to try the leak test. I agree with leaving the thinner portion of the mud exposed for evaporation if needed - seems most logical. Also - regarding the use of fiberglass mesh embedded with the Redgard on all corners... I plan on doing this.. seems logical. Do you use this? Mainly though, please advise on leak testing on bare mud. Thanks!
i really like your style vids are great your vioce your camera work content thanks alot....
Thank you ;-)
Hey Bob, for your curb tiles, do you grout the gap between the vertical and horizontal tiles, or do you caulk them? Thanks in advance. Your videos are great by the way.
I grout...caulking should be used ( in my opinion ) if needed, i.e. cracks occur...but it would not hurt to do both
I thought you were supposed to leave like 6-12 inches of the wall off, from the floor up? So if moisture gets into the floor it can't work its way up the wall
6-12 inches ?? Nooooooo...ideally leave a small gap where wall meets floor, maybe 3/4'' if you mean the wall/floor.
If you mean pan liner, yes Ideally at least 4'' up the wall, try to get 6'' and if there's more then great.
+StarrTile,
Yes sorry that's what I meant, before the floor is floated and it's just the liner.
great video, very precise information, question for you, since you installed mold resistant drywall, with red-guard, what kind of mortar/thinset (modified/non-modified) would you use to install tiles on the walls?
Modified
thank you for the prompt reply
Hello, I could not catch what you said regarding the edge of the tile on top of the curb. I think it was paint the outside edge and leave the inside edge as is. Is this correct and what type of paint do you recommend? I have the exact issue you mention. My curb top is just over 5 inches so I want to use the same time tile as the shower walls. Struggling with how to handle the edge. Some say polish it with a hand sander but your idea sounds simpler to do. BTW, I am doing my first shower and your videos have been great!
Yes I mentioned painting the outside edge, with an oil based paint....OR find a tile guy to bullnose & paint them. I prefer the solid one piece curb top. And thanks for the compliment, glad I could help out ;-)
StarrTile what would you say the problem would be if one were to use a clamp to hold your, in pan, durock cut against your 4 2x4's and then dry pack with some bonding agent added.....not using any screws in the inside but letting the weight of the mortar pan and bonding agent meld/merge it into one solid piece. Afterwards, and once cured, adding the other two pieces of Durock cement board cut outs?
thank you for creating these videos
you seem to be using moisture resistant sheetrock on the walls. why not use that on the curb as well?
can you use screws on the 2x4s on the curb? Or only use nails?
Technically you're supposed to use either, but no one has figured out how to get backerboard to attach to the curb without doing it...I prefer screws
Thanks!
I use Silicone Caulking. It works perfect without screws. FYI I liked everything you said until you said RedGuard on your installation and techniques. I have over 30 years of Tile setting experience.
I've seen silicone fail on many applications, so for the long haul I wouldn't trust it...but each to their own way of doing things.
And nothing wrong with Redgard, it's a great product.
Excellent videos you are making. Thank you for taking your time to do them. I'm watching all the videos I can as I'm working through my first shower job at home.
Do you happen to have a video on installing a 36" linier drain?
did he say pan or pam?
Quick question . Do you install your wallboard on top of the shower mud?
So, I am a bit confused. What happened between laying the waterproof liner and you speaking about something drying? Did I miss something? Do you do all of this in addition to adding a shower pan or instead of? Please and thank you !
I'm confused by your question...
Liner goes in, drain set, pan is poured & dried, wallboard goes up as does the backer on the curb, curb is buttered, the whole thing is waterproofed with Redgard...almost every step requires dry time.
Do you use the fiberglass mesh tape on the joints
Sometimes I do...but the Redgard itself is a crack preventor, which is why you would use the tape to begin with, can you do both ? Sure
yea we put the redgaurd also. my showers are 100 percent waterproof
Great video, I'm trying to teach myself so I can rebuild my shower at home, can you tell me about this process vs the process of hotmopping? Is a hotmop not necessary?
+jim likens Hotmopping is popular out west & I think the north too. Don't know a lot about it except videos I've seen, seems like you're tarring your roof ! The point is to make things ( materials ) in your shower waterproof, the easiest way possible...in my humble opinion anyway.
You are completely wrong on all accounts, but I will hold back debating with you because I don't do that on my channel nor do I allow it, if you want to discuss it then call me
Man o man o man here in Australia we mostly use a product called wet seal fibreglass matting fitted to the base over shower hob and up the verticle corners oh so simple compared to this.
+ROBERT BUTLER I'm Googling it right now ;-)
+StarrTile What did you find out about this?
How many gallons of Redgard did you use on this project?
One
I never make my curbs with wood. those always fail. I always make mine with cement and put the liner in the middle of it.
Actually wood curbs don't fail always...they fail when not waterproofed, and or the tile is not slanted, and or the grout is not sealed or mixed too thin...among some other issues. Making a curb of cement is great if time allows, but residual wood rot issues on outer subfloor will still occur if the prep isn't done right.
Most people don't do it properly though. Here in mn. You can't even use wood curbs. Inspectors won't allow it. Has to be cement or a weddi/kerdi system.
Really? Maybe houses should be built with cement as well. smh
Minnesota?? Thats ridiculous, do you also make you're footers in your wall out of cement? and the bottom of the studs? Do you not use a pan liner?
They're fast and easy and they fail. And if/when water penetrates they expand and destroy the whole installation, vs. a little bit of water hitting concrete does nothing at all. There's no argument here. It's one thing to argue that they are "good enough" and "adequate" and you could also say that most people won't pay for the additional time to do a non-wood curb, but not BS anyone by saying they're "just as good" or even close to being just as good, because that's just lying. Half my jobs are on showers where the 1st guy did a wood curb. A few more hours doing the job right could save thousands in a few years.
Thanks for doing this video ! I'm getting ready to make my curb using the same materials. just to confirm, what do you use to adhere the rubber to the wood curb?
Screws at outside bottom of curb
OK, so no glue around the top and sides? it looks like it's laying down over the 2X4's really tight.. that's why I was wondering. Thanks !!
is it important to have blocking between the studs? If so, must the blocking be 2 X 6 material or would 1 X 6 material be just as good?
Important ? no...but I like doing it. A 1x6 might work but toenailing would be tuff to do on a thin board.
I am considering a contractor for a shower. I have demo to the studs. For tile backer they use what he is calling fiber board. Do you know what it is and is it acceptable?
Thanks so much.
Your videos are awesome!
+Ronald Miley First off, thanks for the compliment.
As to the question. I think what you refer to is a USG product called Fiber Rock. It's basically like making plywood where there are layers of compressed material. I've taken out this soaked material before and it turns in to a mush, like oatmeal, if that's the board you speak of. However the idea is to negate water from entering ( any ) board you chose, first by setting board AFTER pan is poured, not before...and using a topical membrane on it like Redgard. Doing those things will insure it's waterproof regardless the board you use.
+StarrTile They just said fiber board, but they do coat with Redgard. Should I insist on cement board?
Thanks again.
Rom M
If water gets past your sealer, grout and Redgard, then the kind of board won't matter, water can get through cement board too.
How much fall do you have from the wall to the drain? Great Video btw, love seeing someone take pride in their work and do things the right way.
There should be a minimum of 1/4" per foot from wall to drain.
Hello, would the grout line on the curb be vulnerable to stress or leaks since the top and the sides lined up perfectly? Based on your previous videos, I expected you to stagger the top by using three pieces instead.
+Teresa Haw Not at all, first off curbs are nearly NEVER stepped on, second the pan liner separates the curb from the tile so there is no stress...and thirdly sanded grout is very strong, very rare it ever comes out.
Okay, thank you for the explanation.
if you cut it properly near curb, your able to get rid of the folds.
+piero zito There are two folds in the back & two at curb so doesn't matter. I would never cut the excess at the curb because it requires glue and cut/glue does not trump a fold.
You are able to get rid of the folds at the curb. You have it folded to the wall. I cut mine in a way that it goes right across top of curb. I end up with a little fold I place on riser. If I could post a pic on here I would.
the white thinset you use to "butter" the curb, is that the same thinset (grey instead of white?) you would use to adhere the tile throughout the shower? Also, what are your thoughts on a product I saw at home depot called "fusion pro" grout?
Yes it is the same thinset for setting tile. The fusion pro grout I've seen but never used...it is pricey and not a huge fan of pre mixed grout, thinking they're trying to compete with mapei pre mix which is a good product but very expensive
Fusion pro is a bitch. It drys really fast and was a two man operation for me. One person just to keep ringing out the towels and sponges. Im glad I used it. It makes good promises and seems really strong when I tried to scratch it. You need a sponge to wipe the bulk off and then you need a microfiber to get the last bit off before it hazes over. I would grout 4 or 6 max of 12" tiles before wiping down the grout. any more and I couldn't catch up to it hazing over.
Thanks Nicholas
So I've got a MK tile saw it uses a 7" blade I'm laying 12x24" in a kitchen using porcelain tile
I'd like to get a hot dog blade from MK but no one sells them in my area. Whats a good blade to use on that saw its the 270M with that type of tile? I'll also have to use it on my tabletop type saw as the home depot brand saw stinks for cutting porcelain tile with the stock blade.
I got my MK without a water pan is it worth buying a new pan or should I just improvise one with a cement mixing tray and some 2x4"
Humm I could build one out of 2x6" add a bottom of plywood and coat it with 3-4 layers of red guard or fiberglass resin.
would there be a disadvantage of red guarding the entire floor for those just in case moments where you may have water flood into the room?
No there would be no disadvantage at all, in fact Kerdi is used on entire bathroom floors anyway, it's just very pricey for that product
HEY STARR,
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR U ,IM PREPING WALLS FOR TILE WITH HARDY BACKER SOME TILEGUYS DO AND SOME DON'T BUT SHOUL IT BE A MOISTURE BARRIER ON BACK OF HARDY BACKER OR JUST HARDY BACKER WITH JUST DOBLE FACE INSULATION IN THE BACK SOME CONTRACTORS WILL NOT DO NOTHING IN THE BACK BUT INSULATION SINCE MOISTURE BARRIER AND HARDY BACKER WILL CREATE MOLD IF MOISTURE GETS IN BETWEEN...
THANK YOU ! GREAT VIDEOS
Do you have any photos of the complete bathroom. I like the tile and wondered how it comes together.
I have a photo album on a link at the top of my channel, but I don't take pictures anymore, I have over 200 videos of my finished work
I've seen 2 videos where in one the green board is about an inch off the floor, and you put the tile under it, in this one it looks like you have the board all the way to the shower pan and red guard all of it ... is this way, better than the other as long as I red guard the shower pan?
In the last year I'm now using the gap method...insures moisture from pan never transfers to wallboard.
StarrTile thank you so much... learning so much from you!... I just sloped my first shower pan, so far looks like you were here doing it!.... truly grateful !
👍👍👍
do you flood test your work???
For years when I first started, yes...but I do things the same way on every shower so not anymore
Do you happen to know what kind of tile that is? That color is awesome
+Dmitry Savy No idea, the field tile is grey porcelain and the floor is a mosaic ( which I would never do on a shower floor ). Both bought at Floor & Decor.
I have fiberglass shower base that has copper water lines going to a tub. Can I build a curb that allows room for the copper pipes. Another option is to go with onyx shower base. thanks
do you have to have a subfloor install on top of the main supporting floor before you can install the 2x4 curb.
Not sure I understand...are you asking about floor joist support directly under the curb ?? No you don't need to do anything special.
***** My email is on my card at start of video...but a call is better...
Starrtile@yahoo.com 678-852-8352
Hey Bob. Thanks for everything you do on here! A quick question; at 18:50 when you put the top tile down on the curb, did you say you "painted it"? If so can you explain? Thanks.
Remodeling our bathroom that was a half bath and now adding in a shower. Debating to have a curb or not but do we need to take out the floor to slant the floor either way? Which way do you think is easier?
No the floor will not be slanted, that is the purpose of doing the shower pan, you slant the mortar bed that you will make.
Just subscribed: I've been watching videos because I need to "want" to do my own shower and know NOTHING. So, here is my first dumb question, I don't have a wood base floor. Under my existing shower pan "plastic insert" is my cement foundation. So, what would be the layers that I need to build on to this to make my shower pan? Do I need to add a wood to my cement foundation?
Your foundation is irrelevant to how a shower is built, the only difference is you cannot move your drain to Center if it's not already done so... well actually you could but it would be a lot more work... the only other difference would be how to fasten the curb , I do it with a bang gun, otherwise the process is same.
Thanks, I've been watching some of your other video's so I know what your talking about. I had my tub changed to a plastic shower a few years ago, but my BIG mother-in-law obliterated it. The drain is to the side, but I don't know what it really looks like around the drain now. So, if around the drain was not filled in with cement should I fill it in with cement (saw this in one of your other video's you changed a tub to shower)?
It would not be filled with cement until you were doing a real tile shower.. if you have a fiberglass shower or a bath tub then it would remain as is
Great Job and Awesome Video!!
Thank You
Why greenboard and not hardibacker?
If you use a topical membrane, Redgard, Aqua Defense, Schluter, does not matter what, then the backer doesn't either...you're attaching your tile to the water proofer, not the backer. You can use what you want, cardboard or concrete, but waterproofing it negates the material used.
I used mesh board but some guy said that he uses hardibacker because it's better and for a reason it's $2 more each sheet.. what do you say??
Doesn't matter if it's waterproofed as I do...no water will ever see the backer
i think its going to have water/moisture penetration causing mold ,1 yr away maybe...
Nope...I guarantee my work ;-)
How do you install the glass shower wall on the angled curb? How do you keep the glass vertical?
what do you use to apply the red guard. thanks for sharing
Paint brush....roller on walls
What kind of cement do i use and how thick should it be?.
Sand topping mix ( mortar )...thickness depends on size of shower
Quick question, if you're using RedGard, why do you still use a pvc liner on the curb? I'm asking because the guy at Home Depot said I don't need a pvc liner if I'm using RedGard. Great videos btw.
Although the makers of Redgard say you can use their product as a pan liner, I would NEVER risk it...a true liner is a pvc liner, and it should be one continues piece that goes over the curb.
Red guard is your first line of defense and it works great! your pan liner is your second line of defense. On a tangent, Your Greenboard or Hardie backer is your second line of defense on the walls. Ive only done my personal shower and I did it with hardie. Lots of people including starrtile use greed board which is allowed and much easier but If water gets to the green board you're in trouble. Although You're still in trouble if it gets to your hardie board haha. Just that with green board you'll know about it faster. One place of concern for me is the area around the fixtures if water seeps just a little through there to the back of the green board you're in trouble again. I would personally red guard around the inside of the hole and on the backside before hanging my green board. Maybe just one coat to be safe.
What if you did the cement board on the 2x4s, applied the Redgard, and THEN did the shower pan liner + cement pour after?
Just curious to why you did the cement board AFTER the pan liner and cement pour.
Thanks!! ..trying to plan a reno myself :)
+Kyle Barnes I suppose it could be done as you said...but how to wrap the ( finished ) curb with the liner ? What holds it into place at that point ? Also the tile on the curb can't be set on liner, it needs a porous surface to adhere to.
The original wood floor, DO I slope it? and if so how?
plywood floor, hardybacker and liner, in that order or anything in between plywood and hardybacker?
If you choose to put something in between the plywood and your wall board, that would be totally up to you, I don't see where it would do much good
on the walls is that green board or Dura rock ?
Thanks for the video. What did you use for the concrete to pour the shower pan?
Sand topping mix...from Home Depot
Type N - not Type-S.
Is that thinset on drywall or spackle?