Golbat with Mega Drain is the Onix counter. Onix can’t touch him and he is immune to toxic. So provided at least one mega drain hits… it can win. :) Was that the pokemon you had in mind?
Either that or any faster, special attacking water or grass type Pokémon because Onix has terrible special defense and a 4x weakness to both of those types. This would make it pretty easy to one shot Onix before it even gets a chance to attack.
@@AuraKumo104 brute forcing it is always an option! But I'm thinking of a very specific pokemon and moveset that not only defeats onix relatively quickly, but also has a check to neutralize every single threat Onix has.
@@NickCharles haha Haze can cancel the double teams. And I’m pretty sure it can learn swift too to not miss. Or toxic though I’m not sure if the toxic can’t miss if used by a poison type thing still applies in gen 1 lol
Glad you like the idea! I find it really fun to do myself, because it lets me dig into some of the competitive metas of the past and learn a lot of things I never knew about the old games.
Golbat counters Onix can't be hit with Earthquake because flying type, can't be poisoned because of being poison type. Golbat also gets Mega Drain in gen 1
I like the format, but kinda dislike counting elektross to be available in water gyms. I think it Pokémon that Are the ”wrong” type Should be limited to either evolve into the right type(é.g. Seel on pryce team) or fits a gimmick(e.g. Raihans sandstorm team). Either Way, great video and Will look forward to follow this series
I have 2 guesses for the onyx counter. A golbat with Mega drain Because it's immune to earthquake and Toxic and has a super effective move and most likely outspeeds. Or a tentacruel because it's immune to toxic a water type and potentially outspeeds as well.
In my opinion, gyms should have a 'stable' of Pokémon # and combat ability based on the opposing trainer (challenge) Everything would still be saved in the game code (and thus minable) but not everyone would face the same challenge
It's pretty hard to deviate too much from this team honestly. Gen 1 is really rough around the edge. It's both really simple, but also extremely restrictive, so that's an interesting challenge. It probably makes Rhyhorn worse, but I would like to have Bide and/or Counter on Rhyhorn for thematic purpose. Taking advantage of his massive bulk to punish the player for not being offensive enough.
I'm already loving this series. And it's going be a MASSIVE one. I never realized how cruel gen1 was to it's rock types though. I mean, I knew it was bad but... the fossils not learning rock type moves? Wow... XD
I mean the only reason they had Rock Type was because they were fossils, calcium is in bones and rocks too, so put 2 and 2 together and there you have it.
Good video, hope to see the next one soon enough, but I have one suggestion. Unless you're already planning to videos for the remakes I would suggest adding in a section near the end of the video that covers any changes to moves or held items. Oh also a quick thought, instead of limiting yourself to level 50 you can say that in battle Pokemon are brought down to level 50 like in competitive battles, otherwise Claire technically shouldn't have Dragonite.
I've been considering the Dragonite situation, yes. Ultimately though, I don't like the hacked evos idea. I always found it kinda cheap when Falkner had his level 9/12 Pidgeotto, for example. I think I'd rather accept the fact that Dragonite is simply out of the equation. It's not like Dragonair can't be a formidable opponent. The relative lack of dragon typing in the first few games is a bit of an issue though - I'll have to rely heavily on the "theme" rule to find alternatives. Re: remakes, I was going to do separate videos on them, but probably one video per full game instead of one per gym leader. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Hmm seems like I'm gonna need that Mankey for Brock xD. Definitely that Pikachu too. And ofc gotta get my boi Bulbasaur. Ooo this is fun! I never had trouble with Whitney. But then again I played SoulSilver and headbutted until I had Heracross. This is a great start to a series. Rom hackers pay attention! *Stares at radical red*
As a frequent nuzlocker, I often don't get the chance at a fighting type before Whitney's gym. Definitely agree that having one makes it a lot easier to deal with rollout, but I still think the attract + stomp + milk drink combo is one of the most frustrating in the game of you lack a quick ko move or can't outspeed!
This was a fun video!! I do have a suggestion though considering there are remakes you can factor in the improvements that gen 3 and 7 had on the kanto gym leaders
How I fix Brock that makes him more challenging yet at the same time more effective at teaching beginners the more advance mechanics such as type effectiveness 1. Give him 3 pokemon 2. Make his second pokemon a Zubat that knows Leach Life for a coverage against Bulbasaur especially in gen 1 where bug type attacks are super effective against poison types and because Bulbasaur is a grass/poison type that mean Leach Life does 4 times the damage.Also in the anime Brock has a Zubat 3. Give Brock some form of coverage against Squirtle. There are two ways this can be done. a. Replace Geodude with a Kabuto that knows Absorb. Ok there is some issues with this and its all to the weird balancing of gen 1. In gen 1 Kabuto can only learn Absorb at level 34 to learn which is absolutely ridiculous for a weak move that does only 20 damage especially considering its evolve form Kabutops can learn it at lvl 1. I think some rebalancing is needed so that Absorb is lowered to the low lvl 10 range like in later generations and have Mega Drain replace the lvl 34 spot. Having Absorb on a Kabuto gives it a in a pinch coverage against Squirtile and can recover from any damage it had taken before b. If we do keep Geodude then Brocks Zubat should be given the TM move Mega Drain to give Zubat the move coverage against Squirtle. 4. Keep Onix as Brock's final and ace. Give it Rock Throw but rebalance Rock Throw so that it does 25 base damage and 100% accuracy.
I think because of the gen 1 AI you could use a fighting type against onix, because it would spam rest since its a psychic move. I might be wrong though
Good idea - you probably could! I believe that would work against every trainer class except maybe Lorelei with her Dewgong. I'm not really factoring in most bugs in the game code when I build a check to a moveset though - there's just too many for gen 1!
Rocky Helmet Beedrill? I don't think that item does what you think that it does. Did you by chance mean Razor Fang or King's Rock Beedrill? Considering that you reference Fury Attack...
Hmm, yes you're right. I thought it did damage regardless of which Pokemon made physical contact. You learn something new every day! I think Kings rock only does flinch calculations on the final strike of a multi hit move though, so it'd be the razor fang that would work.
@@NickCharles Far as I know, King's Rock started applying to all hits of multihit moves in gen 3 and has stayed constant ever since. A quick check on Bulbapedia assures me that it hasn't changed (though the Stench ability doesn't stack, mentioning it in combination with it never saying it no long applies means that it still a cheesy tactic. I miss my Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Tail Swipe Minccino right about now...)
Oh really? I guess that's only in gen 2 then. I tend to forget about changes after something is introduced. For example I keep forgetting that tackle's accuracy improves in later gens.
4x weakness is brutal lol. There's not much I can do to help prevent that. You probably don't even need to over level to manage it in most cases because the special stats are so low!
Ye most gyms are way too easy except that child with the annoying cow. Rematch teams cool and all but they should start with being difficult as they're what we need to defeat to progress further in the game
Dude such a great way to kick off anew sereis :D
You always shout really good creators, thanks toby
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the shout-out!
Golbat with Mega Drain is the Onix counter. Onix can’t touch him and he is immune to toxic. So provided at least one mega drain hits… it can win. :) Was that the pokemon you had in mind?
Either that or any faster, special attacking water or grass type Pokémon because Onix has terrible special defense and a 4x weakness to both of those types. This would make it pretty easy to one shot Onix before it even gets a chance to attack.
@@AuraKumo104 brute forcing it is always an option! But I'm thinking of a very specific pokemon and moveset that not only defeats onix relatively quickly, but also has a check to neutralize every single threat Onix has.
You're so close! Hint: there's something to help with your accuracy too!
@@NickCharles haha Haze can cancel the double teams. And I’m pretty sure it can learn swift too to not miss. Or toxic though I’m not sure if the toxic can’t miss if used by a poison type thing still applies in gen 1 lol
@@professorbiloba4421 The only thing that can't miss in Gen 1 is Swift.
I really really enjoyed this! A comprehensive and entertaining break down of how to make gym leaders great! Love it!
This is a great idea for a series
Glad you like the idea! I find it really fun to do myself, because it lets me dig into some of the competitive metas of the past and learn a lot of things I never knew about the old games.
I need every Gym Leader fixed this way 😊 Don't make us wait, Nick. LOVE this idea!
This is a pretty cool idea and I can't wait to see the rest of the gyms redone.
Golbat counters Onix can't be hit with Earthquake because flying type, can't be poisoned because of being poison type. Golbat also gets Mega Drain in gen 1
I like the format, but kinda dislike counting elektross to be available in water gyms. I think it Pokémon that Are the ”wrong” type Should be limited to either evolve into the right type(é.g. Seel on pryce team) or fits a gimmick(e.g. Raihans sandstorm team).
Either Way, great video and Will look forward to follow this series
I have 2 guesses for the onyx counter.
A golbat with Mega drain Because it's immune to earthquake and Toxic and has a super effective move and most likely outspeeds.
Or a tentacruel because it's immune to toxic a water type and potentially outspeeds as well.
Here from Toby's shout out! Love this idea and can't wait to see more 😁
Insurge was a game that change that…. Dammed, those gym were hard as hell…
You uploaded this on my 35th birthday.
This is an interesting twist to how strong is (insert character here) actually by another Pokétuber!
In my opinion, gyms should have a 'stable' of Pokémon # and combat ability based on the opposing trainer (challenge)
Everything would still be saved in the game code (and thus minable) but not everyone would face the same challenge
I believe that's how they showed the gym leaders in Pokemon Origins. I like the idea too and it's personally been a part of my headcanon for years.
Neat series idea! Looking forward to when you get to Whitney lol
Some of the teams in Gens 1 and 2 are gonna be difficult to work around
_(looks at Morty)_
It's pretty hard to deviate too much from this team honestly. Gen 1 is really rough around the edge. It's both really simple, but also extremely restrictive, so that's an interesting challenge.
It probably makes Rhyhorn worse, but I would like to have Bide and/or Counter on Rhyhorn for thematic purpose.
Taking advantage of his massive bulk to punish the player for not being offensive enough.
This is some quality stuff man keep it up!
I'm already loving this series. And it's going be a MASSIVE one.
I never realized how cruel gen1 was to it's rock types though. I mean, I knew it was bad but... the fossils not learning rock type moves? Wow... XD
Yeah there aren't a ton of moves in general in gen 1, but Rock types only had two to choose from! Rock slide and rock throw were it.
I mean the only reason they had Rock Type was because they were fossils, calcium is in bones and rocks too, so put 2 and 2 together and there you have it.
Good video, hope to see the next one soon enough, but I have one suggestion. Unless you're already planning to videos for the remakes I would suggest adding in a section near the end of the video that covers any changes to moves or held items. Oh also a quick thought, instead of limiting yourself to level 50 you can say that in battle Pokemon are brought down to level 50 like in competitive battles, otherwise Claire technically shouldn't have Dragonite.
I've been considering the Dragonite situation, yes. Ultimately though, I don't like the hacked evos idea. I always found it kinda cheap when Falkner had his level 9/12 Pidgeotto, for example. I think I'd rather accept the fact that Dragonite is simply out of the equation. It's not like Dragonair can't be a formidable opponent. The relative lack of dragon typing in the first few games is a bit of an issue though - I'll have to rely heavily on the "theme" rule to find alternatives.
Re: remakes, I was going to do separate videos on them, but probably one video per full game instead of one per gym leader. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Hmm seems like I'm gonna need that Mankey for Brock xD. Definitely that Pikachu too. And ofc gotta get my boi Bulbasaur. Ooo this is fun!
I never had trouble with Whitney. But then again I played SoulSilver and headbutted until I had Heracross. This is a great start to a series. Rom hackers pay attention! *Stares at radical red*
As a frequent nuzlocker, I often don't get the chance at a fighting type before Whitney's gym. Definitely agree that having one makes it a lot easier to deal with rollout, but I still think the attract + stomp + milk drink combo is one of the most frustrating in the game of you lack a quick ko move or can't outspeed!
This was a fun video!! I do have a suggestion though considering there are remakes you can factor in the improvements that gen 3 and 7 had on the kanto gym leaders
Remakes will get their own videos! Probably 1-2 for them instead of 1 for each gym again.
@@NickCharles oh interesting I’ll keep an eye on that
Keep up the good work! Looking forward to the next one
How I fix Brock that makes him more challenging yet at the same time more effective at teaching beginners the more advance mechanics such as type effectiveness
1. Give him 3 pokemon
2. Make his second pokemon a Zubat that knows Leach Life for a coverage against Bulbasaur especially in gen 1 where bug type attacks are super effective against poison types and because Bulbasaur is a grass/poison type that mean Leach Life does 4 times the damage.Also in the anime Brock has a Zubat
3. Give Brock some form of coverage against Squirtle. There are two ways this can be done.
a. Replace Geodude with a Kabuto that knows Absorb. Ok there is some issues with this and its all to the weird balancing of gen 1. In gen 1 Kabuto can only learn Absorb at level 34 to learn which is absolutely ridiculous for a weak move that does only 20 damage especially considering its evolve form Kabutops can learn it at lvl 1. I think some rebalancing is needed so that Absorb is lowered to the low lvl 10 range like in later generations and have Mega Drain replace the lvl 34 spot. Having Absorb on a Kabuto gives it a in a pinch coverage against Squirtile and can recover from any damage it had taken before
b. If we do keep Geodude then Brocks Zubat should be given the TM move Mega Drain to give Zubat the move coverage against Squirtle.
4. Keep Onix as Brock's final and ace. Give it Rock Throw but rebalance Rock Throw so that it does 25 base damage and 100% accuracy.
Venasuar is perfect
Nice video! Take my sub!
I'm excited to see more! I like the amount of thought you put into this video
Good video. Looking forward to more of this series!
this is really fun cant wait for the other gyms, this is hyping me up to play a hard kanto gba rom hack
So..... it's just the Gold/Silver team with better moves.
That Miltank 😂
the opening in onyx's movest is zubat and golbat
Golbat wouldn’t take damage from Onix! Right?
So try to confuse Onix with Golbat?
I think because of the gen 1 AI you could use a fighting type against onix, because it would spam rest since its a psychic move. I might be wrong though
Good idea - you probably could! I believe that would work against every trainer class except maybe Lorelei with her Dewgong. I'm not really factoring in most bugs in the game code when I build a check to a moveset though - there's just too many for gen 1!
This video is amazing
I disagree with the last rule. I think all itens available in the respective game should be fair game.
Rocky Helmet Beedrill? I don't think that item does what you think that it does. Did you by chance mean Razor Fang or King's Rock Beedrill? Considering that you reference Fury Attack...
Ya I thought the same thing
Hmm, yes you're right. I thought it did damage regardless of which Pokemon made physical contact. You learn something new every day!
I think Kings rock only does flinch calculations on the final strike of a multi hit move though, so it'd be the razor fang that would work.
@@NickCharles Far as I know, King's Rock started applying to all hits of multihit moves in gen 3 and has stayed constant ever since. A quick check on Bulbapedia assures me that it hasn't changed (though the Stench ability doesn't stack, mentioning it in combination with it never saying it no long applies means that it still a cheesy tactic. I miss my Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Tail Swipe Minccino right about now...)
Oh really? I guess that's only in gen 2 then. I tend to forget about changes after something is introduced. For example I keep forgetting that tackle's accuracy improves in later gens.
Cool video! Are you planning on doing each and every gym? (And then the remake gyms as well?)
Yes, every gym! We'll probably just spend one or two videos on each of the remakes instead of giving each gym it's own though.
All this to get ohko’d by my over leveled starter
4x weakness is brutal lol. There's not much I can do to help prevent that. You probably don't even need to over level to manage it in most cases because the special stats are so low!
Ye most gyms are way too easy except that child with the annoying cow. Rematch teams cool and all but they should start with being difficult as they're what we need to defeat to progress further in the game
like if you're here from the BKT Discord
> gives Rhydon Blizzard and Thunder
> Rhydon has 35 Special
_why_
This sounds as a great idea for post-game! Good post-game!