@@CabezasDePescado stop blaming Disney for everything if you want to go and hate on Disney go to a Disney video Disney has nothing to do with the X-Men franchise being trash the X-Men franchise is better in Marvel's hands and it's a good thing they own the movie rights again
4:15 And have you noticed how he says "The movie really shines", while the sun is shining in the scene? This is thought provoking and ground braking video editing!
disney fucked up. the movie itself the details and the quality was not bad. but the cutting and all that stuff at the end.. it was way to fast cut off. more jean FIGHTS would have been awesome.
Super speed is literally the most unfair super-power ever imagined. When a speedster is in motion, they can't be hurt, and they can KILL ANYONE. All Quicksilver had to do is pick up a sizable rock and then drop it while running past Apocalypse. The momentum alone would have exploded him into goo. Imagine then, if Quicksilver had a knife. He could literally slice people in half. In Age of Ultron, the writers are constantly making excuses for why Quicksilver doesn't kill people. The excuses are subtle but they are there. Then there's the fact that super-speed isn't portrayed with anything that can be considered scientific accuracy. At those speeds, the air itself turns into a viscous goo. Quicksilver moving through it would create a vacuum behind him that would implode and create an explosive sonic boom that would kill people he runs past and deafen everyone in the area. Also, simply pushing on the viscous air in front of him would compress it into a liquid which would ignite from all the friction and turn Quicksilver himself into a giant fireball. The only way for writers to avoid all of this from happening is to say that Quicksilver is somehow able to ignore friction on his body but not his feet (so that he can run without exploding), ignore the rules of mass except when he wants to punch something (so that he doesn't break all the bones in his body), and just ignore all the laws of physics in general whenever it's convenient for him unless the plot says he can't. No other X-men does this. Every other character has clearly established rules for what they can and can't do with their powers. Also, one of the core features of the X-men is that their powers often come with drawbacks that they must overcome on a personal level (Cyclops can't even look at people normally without hurting them). None of this applies to Quicksilver. He very quickly turns into a running mass of plot holes and contrivances. He is a nightmare for writers to deal with.
@@jacobwiren8142 there is a scene where wolverine sticks his claws into an helicopter and cuts it entirely like he was just an immovable rock the helicopter was passing by. They should just come up with a batter way of quicksilver using his powers, not a bunch of excuses that makes no sense.
The ending release just the last arc of the movie is bad that really makes you not wanna watch it again. Cause you’ll just go through all that again and be like “why did I watch this if they’re only just gonna do that in the end?“ kinda leaves a bad taste
I never really liked Cyclops on the comics, or the cartoons, but god, he was a movie prop in these films, he's in 7 films... SEVEN FILMS, and doesn't get to do anything or say anything that matters. And this movie is like "here's Cyclops saying the martha line... but different" Not once we saw him growing to be a leader or having any kind of conflict because Xavier took him and basically forced him to be the leader of his kids army. The major development that we could have gotten was when Jean "died" but he just goes angry/sad and that's it. They killed him off in the moment they could have used to boost his character. X1: he's just a dick for no reason, does nothing. X2: he's still a dick only so we don't feel bad because Wolverine's hitting on Jean. X3: he's a bigger dickish sad dude and dies. Origins: he's kinda there. DOFP: he's there. Apocalypse: he's there. Dark P: he's there.
To be fair he's kind of a nonce in the comics too. He goes from an annoying boy scout, to a terrorist, back to an annoying know it all, to a whiny leader, terrorism again... meh. They didn't have much to work with lol He has very few interesting stories and they already ruined one of them with Deadpool 2 so I doubt we'll get the cool Cyclops x Jean Grey Clone = Cable and send him to the future... etc story we all wanted. Or the Hope saga... but MAYBE we'll get the awesome Avengers vs X-Men saga in the future when Lord Mouse King of All and Everything, Ruler of Media and Pop Culture, God of I.P. Disney brings Mutants to the MCU.
@@DanteYewToob but he mostly is a rigid law-abiding leader in the comics. They didn't even do that with him in the films. He is barely in the first two, he dies, he is recasted, then barely in the rest, recasted and suddenly he is a rebel? He never actually leads nothing when that's his whole thing.
@@DanteYewToob I always loved in the original x-men movie when wolverine calls him a dick because that is exactly what he is he has done some very selfish things in the comics and always dances in that morally grey area like I always say he's a dick but he's our dick and I think apocalypse showed this the best
This movie made me really hate RAVEN as a character. She is pissed at Xavier for basically bending over backwards for them by using the students to help the humans. It's like she has no memory of the actions of the characters in the previous films. In first class magneto almost started a war between the mutants and the humans. In days of future past Magneto dropped a motherfucking stadium in the middle of the city and RAVEN HERSELF almost assassinated someone in front of the President. After all this I don't really blame the humans for being distrustful of the mutants in general. Xavier ordering the X-Men to help the mutants and taking part in photo ops and other such activities to generate good PR is actually the best strategy to win back their trust. She's like that person that messes shit up and refuses to take responsibility for her actions and help fix things. Raven criticising this decision of Xavier's would only make sense if neither she or any of the mutants were involved in the above mentioned events whatsoever. Even this was true and none of the main characters of this movie were involved Xavier's decision would still make sense since the government would still take action against all mutants as they would view them as a threat.
I think my main issue with the domestic intensity is that the characters are treating Charles as if he’s suddenly developed an ego to rival Tony Stark’s when he actually is kind of being more reasonable than they are giving him credit for. Mystique and Beast never have a chance to develop a good counter-argument in my opinion. It doesn’t help that in the prior film, Mystique was the one that wanted Charles teaching his students to fight
Also that Xavier's entire philosophy was not manifestly opposed to Magneto's in Dark Phoenix. Magneto: lives on an island (Genosha, I guess) with a bunch of mutants because he doesn't interfere in human affairs. There are Them, and there is Us. Xavier: lives in a secluded mansion with a bunch of mutants because he doesn't integrate with society at large, but helps human affairs to "protect" mutants. There is them, and there is Us. Fundamentally, Xavier has never saw an "us" vs "them" in humans v mutants. That's Magneto's view. This Xavier sees an us vs them, and sees mutants as a necessarily subservient race to their nominally lower population. But what happens in 300 years when there is a significant enough plurality of mutants, are they still subservient, or are they joined together, or are they Magneto's original brotherhood vision? Xavier suffered character assassination in this flick.
what. xavier is a huge cunt in this movie. you dont prostrate yourself or subject yourself to indignity to gain equality. thats not how that works. the fact that he pretty much blatantly says hed let his students die if it made the humans happy (in certain contexts im sure) is fucking disgusting. Can you IMAGINE saying this about anything thing else? I understand having to accept reality but you can't go 'okay white people, the black people have lost 5 of our own, saving 3 white people. does this satisfy? PLEASE BE NICE TO US NOW!" its gross. i understand the premise of the xmen series. and i understand what xavier wants. but in the other movies and in the comics i NEVER got the impression he treated mutant lives like human placation currency. thats how he seems in this movie.
I know it's slightly off-topic, and probably not even something mentioned in the video itself, but Mystique's infamous line where she asks that you might want to change the name to X-Women, I don't necessarily have a problem with such a conversation, but the way Jennifer Lawrence delivers the line makes Mystique come off as a straw character here. It's on par with "You know, men are always taking credit for women's words and I'm sick of it!" from The Emoji Movie. But no, clearly the Star Wars sequel trilogy and Captain Marvel are too political just because they feature female leads who are too overpowered/positive/whatever despite rarely if ever calling attention to said characters' gender. I actually have not seen Dark Phoenix or The Emoji Movie, and for now I hope that sticks!
Also, the fact that Xavier is the only one who knows the dark future from days of future past adds to the theme of why he is willing to sacrifice one mutant to save the lives of many.
@@jonahmordhaim2705 when Logan goes back in time, he tells Xavier that's (the 1st timelines future/DOFP) why he was there and explains why Xavier has to help him stop Raven to change the timeline/prevent the Sentinels from being made and hunting mutants. or preventing an even darker future.
@@jonahmordhaim2705 To put it as the movie did it, Logan let McAvoy-Xavier read his mind, which allowed him to do a pseudo-time travel to see the future and talk to Stewart-Xavier
@@angelinas3244 It would fare better in Dark Phoenix if he actually said this was his reason, so he sounds more strategic and not blindly kind, like if humans want to design sentinels maybe make that clear
@@pepeid7420 Oh, god. Naruto goes to ridiculous levels: "Let's forgive Orochimaru". "What?? Why?? He basically started the 4th Ninja war!!" "Ye, but he helped finish it..."
@@DonVigaDeFierro *obito wants to end the world* *obito kills a fking lot of people* *obito feels alone* naruto: "yo obito, you are not alone" *obito changes his mind and helps them to save the world* ... like DUDE WTF!
@@pepeid7420 we call that "Talk no Jutsu". It fixes anything in the plot. I love that anime but that is the worst plot device. Even worse than Hashirama cells and all those ass pulls from Dark Zetsu.
@@GK-ut9nc no, literally Martha Effect: thanks to the Martha scene in B vs S, it is names whenever a phrase is uttered that is so dumb it ruins a scene.
@@GK-ut9nc no, literally Martha Effect: thanks to the Martha scene in B vs S, it is names whenever a phrase is uttered that is so dumb it ruins a scene.
The opening of Dark Phoenix is probably the closest we've gotten to that feeling of the 90s animated cartoon, where the team feels like a team, all contributing towards a common goal, using their powers in creative ways to get the mission completed.
Since we’re talking about conflict, I’d like to point out the cops showing up at the Grey house out of nowhere. There’s literally no reason for that, Jean didn’t do any real damage yet and it happened way too fast. It’s just the writers wanting to escalate the situation. Therefore said conflict feels hollow. This happened again when the military popped up at Genosha because they somehow knew that Jean would fly to Magneto.
"Help! I'm being stabbed!" "Hold on Sir, a car will be there within the hour." "Hi, there is a teenager is throwing a tantrum and there are some suspicious colored teens here arguing!" "WE'RE ON OUR FUCKING WAY! Keep an eye on those black kids!" "What? Black kids? No I said COLORED! One of them is bright blue and red with yellow eyes and the other is navy blue and has a tail or something.." "O shit yeah! MUTANTS! Even better! We're sending the cavalry!"
We don’t know exactly where the cops were at the time. For all we know, they could have been on their break at a donut shop nearby the Grey House. Lol, kind of joking and not joking. Anyways, Jean was already getting hostile and John was getting worse about it. Given that there is no indication the John is a very loud person until Jean came around, this would cause some alarm in general. Add the fact that a plane was literally shaking the house, which means it would be shaking the other streets houses, the neighbors would be on that way before the conversation between Jean and the X-Men started.
As for the Magneto and Genosha and the military? Think about it. Jean is a mutant. Genosha is a safe haven for mutants with no homes. It’s kind of a no-brainer since they have no idea what Jean can do beyond moving things out of nowhere.
To be honest... like 80% percent of movies does this... conflict barely even starts but you can already hear the sirens approaching. It seems stupid, because we all know that it takes at least half an hour for the police to arrive... But showing that someone is calling the police/ describing the situation/ arguing with the dispatcher whether the situation requires police intervention or not and then the characters just standing around in the set and waiting, would fuck up the flow of the scene bad. It's one of the internal rules of any movie. Just like that you don't see the characters of a movie to go out and take a shit, or clip their nails or whatever. If it doesn't directly impacts the happenings they'll not show it, because it's just waste of time, and doesn't add anything to the story.
“Whose blood is that?” “I don’t wanna talk about it” This isn’t some minor emotional turmoil. You killed someone-by accident, but you did. You don’t get to “not want to talk about it”
I really hated that part. Well, that part made me hate her a bit. I just like Raven a lot & to know she killed her like it was nothing then just flew away like Mary Poppins makes me mad...
"Hey we are all villains here, it's good. I killed the maid this morning after breakfast, and I have a killing scheduled later after my weekly meeting with the brotherhood of evil mutants. So who did you kill? Or should I ask 'how many'? Just make sure to log whoever's blood that is in our database for when we are allocating resources at our half-year murder-progress meeting"
10:40 No, it is not a dilema that does not have an answer. Jean's father hated her. It is Xavier's obligation NOT to tell an young child that her father despised her. She had no right to hate Xavier for this. She was directing toward him the dispontment she had for her own father.
He says it's like a dilemma with no clear answer from Xavier perspective... And thus make the conflict between Xavier and Jean great.. The only problem this movie has is in the finale battle Jean feels okay with Xavier Reason in the end altough She already knew the reason right after she met her father?
@@themimsy But if she is really upset... then in the finale there's no reason for her accepting Xavier Decision to hide the truth from her She can read minds, right before she killed Raven she could've read Charles mind and found the exact same explaination..
@@themimsy Charles did NOT use her! He never used anyone! He just wanted to give his kids a home and stability. They lived in peace before Raven darkened his doorstep again, demanding they be militarized.
"The rescue scene has a lot of time pressure" LIterally the time they spent talking, Nightcrawler could've teleported back into the shuttle with Quicksilver, Quicksilver could've run the entire place 237 times, got the captain, refurbished the shuttle, built a sand castle, written 5 fan fics, wanked a couple times, teleported back and they still would have about a couple minutes to return. That's the problem throughout the entire movie. They force these drama sequences, they don't feel organic. It's just a re-hash of X-men 3 with better soundtrack and visual effects. And a shitty villain thrown into the mix just for shits and giggles.
this is called nitpicking, and no, the movie has nothing to do with X3, amazing that to this day people keep spreading that misinformation, also disney meddling fucked this movie up
Completely agree. That's why the movie was terrible, something very non organic about the plot and pacing. First time I completely disagreed with filmento
@@CabezasDePescado Dude, it would probably been real nice to have the creators original version of this movie. It most likely would have been great. But we're talking about the movie we currently have, not the movie we could have had. And no it's not nitpicking. The characters wasted time in that scene without being active and using their abilities efficiently, so that Jean would have to act and the rest of the movie could happen.
@@CabezasDePescado How is it nitpicking when in the very same scene you have Quicksilver rescuing everyone in a second and for some God forsaken reason they decide to take Jean next to "hold the shuttle together" so they can slowly walk around it to find the captain? And yeah, it's a silly rehash of X3, regardless if you like the movie or not. They just changed the focus from Magneto being the bad guy (which is funny how Filmento did some mental gymnastics to ignore it is the same Magneto of this "universe" doing the same things yet again) to abstract, generic alien #3682 being the baddie in the end.
"whose blood is this?" Well.... certainly not Raven's. She was like 30 feet away when she died. Seriously, Jean, whose blood is that? Who else did you kill? Thanks to Honest Trailers for that.
I have to disagree with you defending the first half if the movie. I checked out when raven said "risking our lives for them" and Xavier didn't immediately tell her there is no "us and them". That's the whole point of the series, and if you didn't get that you wouldn't be on the team. Also they're was the whole "X-Woman" uproar, but am I the only one who remembers it was Raven's idea to call the team the X-Men in first class?
Lol given that this franchise tends to forget about things that happened just one film prior, i think the best way to think of the series as an anthology series like American Horror Story, where the same actors return to a completely new story and universe
Except in this case, Mystique is right. This isn’t a solving for conflict between humans and mutants. This is Xavier capitalizing on the fame he attained for brining peace to humans and mutants. The space shuttle was a human problem. Not a mutant one or one that would have tipped the balance of peace for humanity and mutantdom. Thereby, the X-Men were indeed risking their lives for them in this case. This would have had no impact on mutants and only on Charles rep himself.
Fran Creeps really? Haven't seen first class in a while but I could have sworn Raven said it right after she gave herself the name Mystique. I'll have to rewatch it.
Old Magneto: Sees Mystique getting turned into human, leaves her behind as if she was nothing Young Magneto: DON'T U DARE TO MESS WITH MAH GURL. Seriously why are the "prequels" all about Mystique? makes no sense other than Jennifer Lawrence got big while making these films.
To me the issue that made Dark Phoenix feel mediocre to me was the most important part, Jean's internal conflict. It's not about her inner demons, it's just the cosmic force making her way more unstable. She should be unstable from the start - actually, that should be fully established in the previous movies and brought back to light in the first minutes of the movie. What if the rescue fails because of Jean's emotional instability, and the Force draws to her because of it, instead of causing it? It would push Xavier against a wall, facing discontentment from humans and Raven/Hank alike, in addition to Jean's frustration boiling up exponentially because of the Phoenix energy.
That is what the Dark Phoenix Saga is about. It isn’t about Jean’s inner demons. It’s about Jean changing in personality after attaining total power. Total power corrupts. That is what the Dark Phoenix Saga is about. Not about Jean’s inner struggles with her darkness. She doesn’t ever have that inner darkness until Mastermind starts tampering with her mind. So the movie isn’t entirely right, but they are a closer depiction than what you described.
Honestly, a better solution would have been this: have the scene with her fighting Apokolips in the prior movie be taken as a genuine demonstration the Phoenix force was already there, maybe show something about a space mission as a flashback somehow, and then have her start the movie very much in control of the Phoenix Force. Then have someone, maybe the Mastermind used in the comics, trick her into causing mass destruction using that power, which can result in her accidentally killing Raven. This would result in her still running away, scared of hurting people now that she managed to accidentally kill a friend with her powers, and if you want, have Mastermind follow along and keep her seeing things that aren't real. Heck, have her see tons of sentinels attacking people, keep the anger going. Then the lady offering to take the power away can show up. Then, when Xavier is getting hurt by it, he can break through to her with a telepathic message, having caught Mastermind a bit before, and telling her that it isn't her fault, but rather the people claiming to help her. Then that could result in her both calming down from her crazy spree, and also at the same time ending up infuriated at the idiots, and try to slaughter them all.
That's exactly what the movie was about. It was entirely for people who have read the comics already, he just decided to not acknowledge any of that and call her outbursts" inner demons" when it was really just the cosmic force amplifying her emotions.
One Thing for every writer out there: Please, no more inner demons and no more conflict based on a misunderstanding. This is just sooo daed, and i cannot enjoy a movie that uses such cheap plot devices.
In the comics, they've done a much better job of showing that Magneto isnt so easily forgiven. More than once he is in literal court after being pardoned. Having the prove that he has changed. And having to prove himself to others. I think some of these movies show that better than others.
Personally, always thought the biggest flaw of the X-men as a whole when adapting to film is there's TOO many of them to focus on/shove into a movie. TV show you could get away with it by shifting focus over a season or just admitting some of them just aren't interesting enough to have a movie focus on. NOW, the biggest flaw of this Fox X-Men franchise was well, Outside of Hugh Jackman's Wolverine who got the most development, attention, screentime, and THE best movie with Logan then came Deadpool who said, alright we are gonna do it completely different and keep the # of X-men or characters from the comics to a minimum to give them an opportunity to stand out rather than shoving as many as we can in. And finally, the Phoenix saga as a whole, I've never read the comics about this but from what I've seen/read you can't just do it in one film, it has to be done as a trilogy minimum with Jean Grey in the foreground, mini-series probably better to do it right. OR You need to hire the right writer who can adapt it by keeping the heart but losing the unnecessary fat.
In theory you would need at least one movie of jean becoming the phoenix and what it means for her and the team etc. And one where she becomes dark phoenix and the team is forced to hunt her down before she kills someone.
@@johnwinchesterp2963 Film 1: We get to know Jean Grey but we see the phoenix lurking under the surface. Film 2: The Phoenix comes out and it's conflict between Jean and the Phoenix with the Phoenix side winning in the end. and the X-Men hesitate to hurt/kill Phoenix because they'd be killing Jean. Film 3: Dark Phoenix rampaging across the globe
@@Tadicuslegion78 I would say your first movie should be where jean is in the background but you get a good feel on her but with no phoenix. Just a sense that jean hasn't reached her full potential. The second would be the one where she is possessed by the phoenix but she is in charge like in the comics but it will all end up well with a small nudge of what could happen if jean loses control of her powers. And in the third shit will happen because of some stuff others did jean will become dark phoenix. A movie with jean as dark phoenix from the beginning to end is difficult because the phoenix force isn't a good villain. It has no motivations and it can destroy planets. If it is in charge then game over. And it would be tiring to see jean struggling to contain phoenix force from destroying everyone for the whole movie.
The Phoenix Saga from the comics contained several excellent elements that drive the narrative, most of which are ignored in movie adaptations. *) Jean being the only one with a chance to pilot a shuttle through radiation. She sacrificed herself here, she chose to do it, and there literally was no other option. *) An incubation period, where it was hinted her powers had grown but were not revealed. *) Jean saves the universe. Showing this as a power that was used for incredible good on a cosmic scale is critical to her fall. Again, an action only she could have done. It required the power of the Phoenix. That all of existence owes her makes the later decisions (by Lilandra, Xavier, etc) to take her out more difficult. No, just saving the X-Men is not good enough to satisfy this. *) The defeat by Magneto. Thinking that the rest of the X-Men were dead leaves Jean vulnerable to manipulation. *) Mastermind. So much better of a villain than what we see in the movie. This emotional manipulation and attempted corruption is critical to what happens next. The Hellfire Club is not AS critical, but Mastermind's use of her in order to get into the club is important. *) Phoenix cutting herself off one by one -- easily defeating the X-Men, failing to reconnect with her family and then threatening them, the showdown between Xavier and Phoenix. Her committing genocide on SUCH a grand scale is also critical. Not Thanos-style genocide, but as an unfeeling side effect of satisfying her hunger. There's temptation to axe this last part, to make it all about what she COULD do if we didn't stop her. Killing an X-Men is no substitute, as personal the act might be. *) The Trial of the Phoenix. Phoenix Must Die! Another external forces Jean into action. I'm sure moviemakers think that this step can just be combined with the last step, to make her showdown with Xavier the last, ultimate conflict. That's a mistake. This is important because it shows that Phoenix could return to normal, but every X-Man gives it their all. They can't limit themselves. When they're in battle, when they're saving a life, they have to do everything they can. Doing everything she can brings temptation to the fore, a power that overwhelms Phoenix's moral centers. Jean Grey died because she knew that some situation would eventually come up again that would require her to use the full extent of her abilities. "Jean Grey to Marvel Girl to Phoenix to Dark Phoenix. Inevitable. Later comics would retcon the hell out of that last point, but I'm talking about the plot of Phoenix/Dark Phoenix as it was presented in the 1970s and 1980. This was too much to do as one film. X-Men 2 at least tried to get the ball rolling nicely, with talk about Jean's increasing power levels throughout the movie and her sacrifice and off-screen resurrection at the end. Unfortunately X-Men 3 relegated the Phoenix storyline to a B-plot.
Oh, and finally, I know there's been 30 years of retcons that established the opposite, but to make a really good first Phoenix story, make the Phoenix Jean Grey. No external Phoenix Force that contacts her. Nothing that infects her, nothing that clones her, none of that regardless of how well it worked out later. Phoenix should be Jean, that is what makes the fall of the character such a tragedy at the time.
My favourite "action" scene -- even though it doesn't include much action -- was when Jean and Magneto were fighting for control of the helicopter. Michael Fassbender's acting was just brilliant. I really felt like he was giving it everything he had to save those people, and seeing Magneto actually SAVE people showed the depth of his character. At his best, he's not just a villain. He's a complex human being who does what he feels is right in the moment, and sometimes that can even be an heroic act.
I've seen a ton of Fimento videos now, and have to say this is the only time I have to disagree with him on many issues. JenLaw was at her weakest (she had been wanting to exit the franchise for a long time by then), Jean Grey was boring and emo (instead of firey and ferocious), Scott was still a pathetic simp rather than bold team leader, Xavier as the bad guy was weakly done, and while most of the cast did try their best (with exception of the lead JenLaw again), Fasbender's Magento was once again the (only) stellar standout.
Fun fact, Jessica Chastain and the other aliens were meant to be the Skrulls (You know, Ben Mendelsohn's character Talos), but when Fox asked Marvel/Disney for the rights to the characters they said no because they were planning to use the Skrulls in both Captain Marvel & Spider-Man: Far From Home.
So is it just me, or was Magneto super cute in this movie? I also noticed for the first time that he wears metal bracelets so he can lift himself up. What a cutie
This should have been included in Civil War, Fox be damned. Imagine X- Men working with Avengers on missions with this conflict escalating to all- out war.
Eh well it could have been worse-like an alien coming down and the movie being twice and once with old Charles Xavier and one with young-oh yeah maybe it was worse...
I like your video and editing but I disagree with you on Dark phoenix. I wouldn't say the movie is great, not even 50%. Regarding the civil war portion of Dark Phoenix, I have an issue with it that made me not enjoy it. The conflict felt contrived, or forced, not sure of the exact word I'm looking for here. I might not be remembering the film correctly so I might get things wrong. It kept trying to convince us that Charles was wrong and arrogant (and this also felt out of nowhere) and then everybody turns against him. I had a problem with this because to my eyes, he was in the right. But him trying to save the astronauts at the expense of mutants seems to make sense because we later see how weak the mutant-human relations are. The president asked him, simply saying no would have hurt relations. Also, the world was almost destroyed by a powerful mutant in the last movie and how many times have mutants endangered the population. So relations are definitely important but not to Raven because she only cares about mutants I guess. Charles blocking Jean's past also makes sense because she has a lot of power, she was a child at the time and was responsible for her mother's death. Recipe for disaster. I wouldn't mind the movie questioning Charles actions but the way the film is structured, it is outright saying Charles was wrong and Raven was right and I completely disagree. Heck, they stole Charles school from him and renamed it after Jean Grey, a murderer. Ok. I despise Raven, might be because of the actress, but also because the character seems so condescending and ungrateful considering her past with Charles and all he had sacrificed for mutants. She knows how bad things can be but she just saying "bla bla bla ego". And the line about the women are always saving the men is just cringe and wrong considering they would all be dead if not for Quicksilver. She wouldn't be there if not for Charles, etc. Seriously, why is that line there? Heck if it wasn't for him, she would have been a murderer and doomed Mutant lives. Glad she died.
I think a big portion of the character shift when it comes to Charles Xavier is mostly because Kinberg decided to take the iconic plots of the original Phoenix Saga and place them here, though haphazardly (and obviously, not as well as he expected). If I'm not mistaken - and please correct me if I am wrong - Charles Xavier's character wasn't always the all-good, peace-preaching, humble and self-sacrificing professor that most of us know and classify him as. In the earlier comic runs of the Uncanny X-Men, Xavier was arrogant and demanding, and shared more of the characteristics that made Magneto, well, Magneto. This same run, I believe, was also utilized in the Phoenix Saga. But yeah, regardless of the character shift, Xavier was still in the right in this film. Jean Grey, as an omega-class mutant holding a special kinship with a timeless cosmic entity that is responsible for reality, is a recipe for disaster. It did feel contrived in the sense that, well, none of this was ever built up - and therein lies the faulty direction and writing of Simon Kinberg (who, btw, also contributed to the even worse Phoenix Saga adaptation, or trying-to-be-an-adaptation in X3: The Last Stand). Someone dropped a comment above in one of the threads, but to reiterate and keep it short, you cannot make a movie focusing on the Dark Phoenix Saga without first establishing Jean Grey's character and the Phoenix Saga before it. He (Simon Kinberg, as director, producer and writer of Dark Phoenix) tried to combine two huge sagas that have intense impact on Jean Grey's character, Xavier's and the main X-Men (sagas that should have been adapted into, at the very minimum, a trilogy), her Phoenix powers, her losing control and the Dark Phoenix consumption of galaxies and the X-Men's reluctant quest to stop her, into one movie. It'd be like if Marvel decided to combine Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame into one movie. Without a strong narrative that has been built right from the start, it was bound to come crashing down. It's 2019 and we've experienced more than a decade of live-action films adapted from comic books. Why is the 1994 X-Men Animated Series' 9-episode adaptation of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix saga STILL the best adaptation? This will forever bug me.
I wish they would've killed off one of the characters in that movie, I mean sure Endgame gave us 2 Avenger deaths, but I think Civil War also should've had one, not sure who, but someone.
I'm gonna be honest here. It's hard to take Filmento seriously when he praises the movie while showing clips featuring some of the worst acting I've ever seen in a big-budget film. Jennifer Lawrence clearly was doing as little effort as possible for this movie, and it's so obvious that she didn't care about this role. Filmento: This movie is great! Check out awesome scenes like this: Mystique: "Maybe this team should be called X-Women instead of X-Men." Me: Filmento, are you okay?
Literally tell a person who now has to use a wheelchair, that he has never sacrificed anything and it's always the women, how tf can you say this was a well made movie?
@@davidgatsby3775 The funny thing is that the film's main flaw was putting so much emphasis on the women who mostly seemed like they didn't want to be involved. Play to your strengths, Michael Fasbender was clearly giving it his all and James McAvoy was also quite good. Why focus so much on Jennifer Lawrence, who has publicly stated that she didn't enjoy working on the films?
This goes to show you that even if you have a well written script and confident voice doesnt mean your arguement is right... this movie was extremely poorly constructed with very little emotional ties to the characters to give any events emotional weight not even to mention the whole unnecessary villain storyline and lackluster plot...
I realy disliked that bs with raven, jesus christ she was just biching all the time about that X-man should stop risking theres lives for humans while not realizing that they are protecting there own world. she should watch some more spider man movies
I absolutely lost it when you put the smile on Tony Stark's face, my cats freaked out due to me exhaling through my nose extremely loudly. Hyvää duunia taas.
There were 2 glaringly obvious issues with this film/these x-men films for anyone who ever liked x-men before all this. The complete mishandling of Mystique PURELY because she was played by Jennifer Lawrence, and Xavier PURELY because they didn't want him overshadowing how good Mystique is
Fan service? Who the fuck thinks shitting on characters like Cyclops, Storm, Magneto and Xavier are fan service? This movie had everything wrong... Characters acting completely out of themselves and making the most STUPID decisions ever... Jean is just... Horrible compared to what we were given from animated shows and comics... Magneto can't do anything else than just being a good guy turning bad and back to good again... The rest are NPCs... Horrible NPCs, i mean even their costumes and CGI suck...
shitting on beloved characters isn't fan service, its de-service, for me there's only been two good x-men movies, first class and future past, rest were meh or bleh at best
The X-Men franchise should have stopped with Logan. That was the most perfect ending ever, but nope. Fox flew way too close to the sun with Dark Phoenix.
@@jknetwork6211 Dark Phoenix has been showed a number of times, so I fear that there's never going to be a good adaptation because it's already been "done." That's depressing.
@julianzolo To me, it's more like the old generation of mutants are dead, but a new generation will live on. That's a more fitting ending than whatever they were going for in Dark Phoenix.
I remember in one of the earlier movies Raven was rescuing Magneto and step in front of a dart ment for Magneto which turns mutants into normal humans from a mutant Then he instantly discarded her because she was no longer a mutant so it seems strange that Magneto cares so much for Raven now
When Raven died, you can see Beast's left eyebrow falling off his face. It's not in this video though. Also, great video. I only saw the movie once and don't really remember it. Though I remember saying it's not Green Lantern.
I love that definition of conflict. First it's a conflict caused by ideologies and individual views, but that has to lead to a personal conflict so that it turns into something much more powerful and entertaining to watch.
I do disagree with your first "Martha" moment - up to that point, Jean knew that Charles /said/ that he wanted to help/protect her, but she also knew he'd lied to her about her father, and believed that his betrayal went further than just the one lie - that if her own father couldn't love her, nor could anyone else, and Charles only wanted her for her power - that he'd consistently lied and manipulated her so he could use her. What she learned - the new information she gained - in that scene was that, unlike her actual father, Charles cared about her from the start, and believed she could be in control rather than her powers raging out of control. And when Jean understood that, despite having reprised what caused her real father to reject her - losing control of her powers, and killing a close family member - despite that, Charles didn't reject her, still believed in her ability to regain control, still cared for her. When she understood that, that's what turned things around. So, yeah, not new information for the audience, but new information for Jean.
Its a good point, but personally I still think its lame that this information is transferred through mind reading of all things. I think one movie that did solve the conflict successfully somehow was Deadpool 2. He could have told the fat kid a million times that he cared for him, but it took him taking a bullet for him to believe him. That's how you solve a conflict not through dialogue or mind reading, but actions.
I don't think it was stupid that she had a sudden change of hearth. She still cared about everyone, but was hurt and angry. She hadn't gone full evil, she has two conflicting sides fighting, and that line brought up the more positive emotions, just like a trigger can bring out negatives.
And yet the reshoot that made the movie atleast entertaining enough. Like when it got to that train sequence, it literally became a completely different movie for some reason
One thing, i thought about the whole X-Men Franchise is, that i just don't care about most of the (except a few people like Logan, Charles, Erik or Raven), because they had so many annoying redcons in their movies. I just lost the sight, what happened to them or if it happened at all in this time line
To be fair, its not just words that turn her back. Shes reading his mind, meaning she lives the events through him. She feels as he felt, the pain of having to do something horrible for what he thinks would lead to the best outcome for all. In mind reading there is no room for lies, suspicion or misunderstandings, at that moment she truly knows and understands his motives and those motives were pure.
I was pretty unimpressed by this movie. The whole conflict reeks of BvS because everything felt so contrived and forced because characters act differently according to what scene best suits them. Mystique is easily the worst character in the prequel timeline, and I felt nothing but satisfaction when she died. Magneto’s also pretty shoehorned into this plot too. I love Michael Fassbender, but the story didn’t really need him to be involved so he could fight Xavier again. The aliens speaks for themselves, and I’m giving as much attention to them as the film does. Jean Grey, the “protagonist” of the movie still feels pretty underdeveloped because she only was introduced in one movie and even then her powers are pretty inconsistent between here and Apocalypse. Her chemistry with Scott is rather weak and just feels like uninspired romance dialogue, and that’s what this movie is, uninspired. Everything besides the music felt dull and passionless, and it tainted what could have been a great ending to the X-Men franchise. I know people like to blame Marvel for this movie’s downfall, and whether direct or indirect, I can’t deny that they had a part in this. However, Fox ultimately made the choice to turn this from a trilogy into a single movie, and that was where this movie was doomed.
When I first watched this movie, I was surprised how unique and well done it was. It put more emphasis on character and drama than on spectacle or fan service, which made it work so much better than Apocalypse and even Days of Future Past in some areas. It felt like the X-men movies had finally matured to become something more realistic and down to earth. Then the third act happened and the entire movie fell apart. The action itself was fine, but the aliens were such a non-threat, and the X-men didn't even know they were aliens, which made it seem like nightcrawler specifically was just murdering people in a blood-thirsty rage. I agree the original ending probably would have been so much better. What a shame. Hopefully Marvel's take on the mutants learns from this and makes character-driven, dramatic stories with them, while also honoring what worked. The casting of Fassbender as Magneto might be my favorite casting for a villian ever, Macavoy as Xavier is brilliant, wish they had gone out on a higher note.
Now that it hit me, Dark Phoenix is basically Legend of Korra season 2, they had an awesome water tribe civil war all set piece by piece and about to go off, and then they just butchered this plot with that dark avatar shit and made it the worst season ever.
@@zacharybreen8891 I've felt that Korea had a bunch of great set up plots each season, of which they've got cold feet through each of them. Ending with the most predictable and boring outcomes they could think of.
@@Fafnd blind haters like you are the reason we didn't get any more work from the Avatar universe. Korra is actually a really good show exept certain parts of season 2 but they did help kick start important event plots in season 3 and 4.
The first 70% percent of this movie is garbage because every bit of this "great" conflict shouldn't even exist... This is a movie that twists characters to make unneeded conflict happen...
I disagree with a few things you said here. One being that it's not at all in character for Beast to want to kill Jean. She's not only a former teammate, but a former student. Even if he disagrees with Charles, he's never agreed with Magneto, and wouldn't just decide to kill Jean, even if she killed Raven. Another more subjective point for me is that while Magneto's motivation did make sense in this movie, when you compare this movie to the rest of the series it's just another story where Magneto isn't trying to kill anyone and something brings him out of hiding so he can fight the other characters again, (even though he was friends again with Charles at the end of the last movie). The third would be that the villain is another shit generic villain, who weighs down the movie when she wasn't necessary for much of the plot. The movie would probably be better if they either expanded on the aliens and their connection to the phoenix force, or cut them out entirely to make the story more about the characters we already know. It's the same sort of issue Civil War had with it's villain. Zemo was probably one of the better/best villains in the MCU, but you could cut him out of Civil War entirely (and change a few plot details so that the movie doesn't depend on the nonsensical conveniences needed to make his plan work), and the movie would have felt more focused on the characters we already know, conflicting in a way that works just fine without having a background villain pulling the strings. I think the rest of the points you made are great, though, and this is probably the best video I've seen on what works and doesn't work for this movie.
I really appreciate the really unbiased and fair review here. All I have heard is bad because all anyone cares to mention is the bad. This convinced me to see it for the first 2/3 because it really sounded like a decent movie. You have convinced me to watch it and not have too high hopes so I can enjoy it.
all these analysis but the reason why dark phoenix failed is simple: The movie's main characters are under-developed and not many people care about them. Professor X was never really a main super hero in Xmen. Jean's character wasn't never fully developed in the previous installment and one can argue they casted the wrong person to play Jean. Arguably the main draw of the Xmen prequel franchise was Magneto and Raven, and you know what? they killed off Raven 20 mins in the movie. The audience has no one to root for in Dark Phoenix and the actress who played Jean wasn't good enough to lift off the whole franchise on her shoulders.... You can't compare civil was with Dark Phoenix. It's not just the plot, it is because civil war has Ironman, and Captain America as the main character, who btw had multiple movie installments before Civil war. Their side characters include Bucky, War Machine, Black Panther, Black widow, Ant man, etc, and they are ALL vastly more interesting than the side characters like Hank in Dark Phoenix. Ffs even spiderman was in there. It's good to talk about where the plots fail, but dark phoenix just mainly suffered from bad casting and plot. If they had properly develop Jean and Cyclops as the main heroes in the previous franchises, then dark phoenix would end very differently.
NASA: "It's incredibly difficult for us to get to space and we need this time period appropriate spacecraft to get there- Ah oh no we're in trouble." Not-Nasa 20 year old mutants: "Don't worry we already go to space we'll help do you like our futuristic space ship." *STORY SET-UP COMPLET*
Bruh the word "martha" simply stops Bruce to consider what the hell was superman talking about because why would he know that name. At that moment, Bruce goes mad and asks him why the hell would he use that name. It's because he was going crazy in bvs. It's literally shown how mad he has gone. Batman DOES NOT KILL. That's why he was killing. That's why he was so relentless and crazy. It was only when Lois tells him that Martha us Superman's mother does he realise that Superman was human and didn't ask for any of this. He was just manipulated into all this and it was never his intention to do the world any harm. It also makes Bruce stop hating superman because he pleads for someone else's life just like Thomas Wayne does with his dying breath. How hard can this be to understand?
@@DivvayKhatri You're not smart for knowing what the intent of the scene was. Fucking everybody knows what the intent of the scene was. The problem is that it's both contrived and sloppily written. The goal of the scene, plain as day, was to get Superman to say "Martha" to trigger a "wtf" moment within Batman's mind. Here's the thing: if I'm asking you, even in (*especially* in) my dying breaths, to save someone you don't know, I'm not going to just give their first name and leave it at that. There are thousands of women named Martha in the country. There's probably dozens, if not hundreds, of Marthas just within that city. A last name is far more specific. The logical thing for Superman to say would've been "Save Martha Kent!" Now Batman knows who he's supposed to be rescuing, and, as the world's greatest detective, he should be able to track her down. But if worded like that, it might distract from the "Martha" part that the entire scene is hinging on. So regardless of how much more organic the "Martha Kent" phrasing would be in that situation, they decided to take the contrived way out and stick with an ultra vague first-name basis sort of deal. For the record, I think "Save my mother" would've been obnoxiously vague too, but even *that* is far more specific than "Save Martha" (not to mention, since when was Superman on a first-name basis with his mom? This is a total nitpick and I still hold "Save Martha Kent" would've been far more realistic and organic, but still.)
I completely agree. Great analysis. My reaction to the movie was exactly the same. I thought the first two thirds were great, but the climax was "meh" and I didn't realize why I thought that until now.
Not gonna lie... 1. I think the same too. It's not spectacular, but saying it the worst x-men movie feels exaggerating 2. I DIDN'T EXPECT A FILMENTO VIDEO TODAY!
Same. Dark Phoenix wasn't bad...it was actually better than X3: The Last Stand and X-Men: Apocalypse, and of course, X-Men Origins. It just wasn't amazing. It wasn't spectacular. It wasn't jaw-dropping, show-stopping phenomenal. It was the Age of Ultron to Avengers: Infinity War/Endgame. It was just...OK.
Jeremy Jahn called it the worst X-Men movie basically because it wasn’t about fighting a villain. Heroes fighting heroes and a major character death doesn’t count as “something happening” to him, apparently.
I am so so glad you know what it takes to make a movie. That you know how to write, direct, produce, edit, costume design, marketing director. Man you are sooooo experienced I am so dumbfounded as to why Hollywood hasn't noticed your GIFTS. Like you are the single greatest movie Maker ever you are capable of creating a PERFECT MOVIE
magneto sums up my opinion on this film very well "Your always sorry charles, and there's always a speech, but nobody cares anymore" i didn't enjoy it at all
I love this content. It’s nice, when you don’t understand what causes you to be bothered by something, to have someone with better critical faculties explain it 🙃👍
Now that the x men Franchise is over, let’s gather around to remember how much of a waste cyclops was the entire run.
he had more protagonism in this movie but disney fucked it all up
@@CabezasDePescado stop blaming Disney for everything if you want to go and hate on Disney go to a Disney video Disney has nothing to do with the X-Men franchise being trash the X-Men franchise is better in Marvel's hands and it's a good thing they own the movie rights again
@@CabezasDePescado
Disney
This movie was a thing before the Disney/Fox business.
@@CabezasDePescado Amazon forest also alright until Disney fukced it all
The timing of you saying how everything gets tossed out the window right as Magneto gets tossed out the window was just magnificent.
thanks. i do my best
4:15 And have you noticed how he says "The movie really shines", while the sun is shining in the scene? This is thought provoking and ground braking video editing!
_Y E e t_
Also when he sais traimwreck, he shows, well a trainwreck
Magneto was defenestrated? A good enough reason to watch it 👍
This is probably the most positive review of this film I've seen.
Right?!
and detailed.
It was very mismarketed. Jean was marketed as the villain when she was really the protagonist and a lot people watching it didn’t realize it.
disney fucked up. the movie itself the details and the quality was not bad. but the cutting and all that stuff at the end.. it was way to fast cut off. more jean FIGHTS would have been awesome.
Morons be blaming on Disney when the movie had issues and delayed for almost two years before Disney even reach up to Fox. lmao
The part that annoying me the most in X-men movies is why the hell they have to find a reason to leave quicksilver out of the god damn movie
Cus his scenes take way too much work to film, lol
I get what you're saying. I think they remove him from the big battles cause the casual fan thinks he is OP.
Super speed is literally the most unfair super-power ever imagined. When a speedster is in motion, they can't be hurt, and they can KILL ANYONE.
All Quicksilver had to do is pick up a sizable rock and then drop it while running past Apocalypse. The momentum alone would have exploded him into goo. Imagine then, if Quicksilver had a knife. He could literally slice people in half. In Age of Ultron, the writers are constantly making excuses for why Quicksilver doesn't kill people. The excuses are subtle but they are there.
Then there's the fact that super-speed isn't portrayed with anything that can be considered scientific accuracy. At those speeds, the air itself turns into a viscous goo. Quicksilver moving through it would create a vacuum behind him that would implode and create an explosive sonic boom that would kill people he runs past and deafen everyone in the area. Also, simply pushing on the viscous air in front of him would compress it into a liquid which would ignite from all the friction and turn Quicksilver himself into a giant fireball.
The only way for writers to avoid all of this from happening is to say that Quicksilver is somehow able to ignore friction on his body but not his feet (so that he can run without exploding), ignore the rules of mass except when he wants to punch something (so that he doesn't break all the bones in his body), and just ignore all the laws of physics in general whenever it's convenient for him unless the plot says he can't. No other X-men does this. Every other character has clearly established rules for what they can and can't do with their powers. Also, one of the core features of the X-men is that their powers often come with drawbacks that they must overcome on a personal level (Cyclops can't even look at people normally without hurting them). None of this applies to Quicksilver. He very quickly turns into a running mass of plot holes and contrivances. He is a nightmare for writers to deal with.
@@jacobwiren8142 there is a scene where wolverine sticks his claws into an helicopter and cuts it entirely like he was just an immovable rock the helicopter was passing by. They should just come up with a batter way of quicksilver using his powers, not a bunch of excuses that makes no sense.
@@Achaa2 You mean give him real limitations? Yeah, that is usually a good idea in writing...
"The last act completely ruined the film." That line echoes true for WAY too many movies.
To be honest making a satisfying conclusion is very hard, harder than set up.
Setting up a story is easy, but ending it so much harder
The last act? I hate all that movie, the only good part was the rescue in the space
Ngl the 3rd act is one of the better parts of the movie
The ending release just the last arc of the movie is bad that really makes you not wanna watch it again. Cause you’ll just go through all that again and be like “why did I watch this if they’re only just gonna do that in the end?“ kinda leaves a bad taste
We actually had three versions of Cyclops and I can't tell a thing about any of them. None of them had a character arc.
Yeah, bit of a one-eyeded character.
Eesh, that was bad.
I never really liked Cyclops on the comics, or the cartoons, but god, he was a movie prop in these films, he's in 7 films... SEVEN FILMS, and doesn't get to do anything or say anything that matters. And this movie is like "here's Cyclops saying the martha line... but different" Not once we saw him growing to be a leader or having any kind of conflict because Xavier took him and basically forced him to be the leader of his kids army. The major development that we could have gotten was when Jean "died" but he just goes angry/sad and that's it. They killed him off in the moment they could have used to boost his character.
X1: he's just a dick for no reason, does nothing. X2: he's still a dick only so we don't feel bad because Wolverine's hitting on Jean. X3: he's a bigger dickish sad dude and dies. Origins: he's kinda there. DOFP: he's there. Apocalypse: he's there. Dark P: he's there.
To be fair he's kind of a nonce in the comics too. He goes from an annoying boy scout, to a terrorist, back to an annoying know it all, to a whiny leader, terrorism again... meh.
They didn't have much to work with lol
He has very few interesting stories and they already ruined one of them with Deadpool 2 so I doubt we'll get the cool Cyclops x Jean Grey Clone = Cable and send him to the future... etc story we all wanted. Or the Hope saga... but MAYBE we'll get the awesome Avengers vs X-Men saga in the future when Lord Mouse King of All and Everything, Ruler of Media and Pop Culture, God of I.P. Disney brings Mutants to the MCU.
@@DanteYewToob but he mostly is a rigid law-abiding leader in the comics. They didn't even do that with him in the films. He is barely in the first two, he dies, he is recasted, then barely in the rest, recasted and suddenly he is a rebel? He never actually leads nothing when that's his whole thing.
@@DanteYewToob I always loved in the original x-men movie when wolverine calls him a dick because that is exactly what he is he has done some very selfish things in the comics and always dances in that morally grey area like I always say he's a dick but he's our dick and I think apocalypse showed this the best
Raven’s speech would have been more powerful and convincing if she was in her blue skin not disguised as a human.
It partially Jennifer Lawrence fault for not wanting to be on make up for hours
This movie made me really hate RAVEN as a character. She is pissed at Xavier for basically bending over backwards for them by using the students to help the humans. It's like she has no memory of the actions of the characters in the previous films.
In first class magneto almost started a war between the mutants and the humans. In days of future past Magneto dropped a motherfucking stadium in the middle of the city and RAVEN HERSELF almost assassinated someone in front of the President. After all this I don't really blame the humans for being distrustful of the mutants in general.
Xavier ordering the X-Men to help the mutants and taking part in photo ops and other such activities to generate good PR is actually the best strategy to win back their trust. She's like that person that messes shit up and refuses to take responsibility for her actions and help fix things.
Raven criticising this decision of Xavier's would only make sense if neither she or any of the mutants were involved in the above mentioned events whatsoever. Even this was true and none of the main characters of this movie were involved Xavier's decision would still make sense since the government would still take action against all mutants as they would view them as a threat.
@@soumilsingh8530 It kinda stays true to the comics because she was a wholeass mutant terrorist
Princess Lawrence didn’t want to wear the make up. Meanwhile Rebecca Romijn was a good sport about it and looked five times better.
I think my main issue with the domestic intensity is that the characters are treating Charles as if he’s suddenly developed an ego to rival Tony Stark’s when he actually is kind of being more reasonable than they are giving him credit for. Mystique and Beast never have a chance to develop a good counter-argument in my opinion. It doesn’t help that in the prior film, Mystique was the one that wanted Charles teaching his students to fight
Mystique wanted to teach the kids how to defend themselves not risk their lives.
Also that Xavier's entire philosophy was not manifestly opposed to Magneto's in Dark Phoenix.
Magneto: lives on an island (Genosha, I guess) with a bunch of mutants because he doesn't interfere in human affairs. There are Them, and there is Us.
Xavier: lives in a secluded mansion with a bunch of mutants because he doesn't integrate with society at large, but helps human affairs to "protect" mutants. There is them, and there is Us.
Fundamentally, Xavier has never saw an "us" vs "them" in humans v mutants. That's Magneto's view. This Xavier sees an us vs them, and sees mutants as a necessarily subservient race to their nominally lower population. But what happens in 300 years when there is a significant enough plurality of mutants, are they still subservient, or are they joined together, or are they Magneto's original brotherhood vision?
Xavier suffered character assassination in this flick.
what. xavier is a huge cunt in this movie. you dont prostrate yourself or subject yourself to indignity to gain equality. thats not how that works. the fact that he pretty much blatantly says hed let his students die if it made the humans happy (in certain contexts im sure) is fucking disgusting. Can you IMAGINE saying this about anything thing else? I understand having to accept reality but you can't go 'okay white people, the black people have lost 5 of our own, saving 3 white people. does this satisfy? PLEASE BE NICE TO US NOW!" its gross. i understand the premise of the xmen series. and i understand what xavier wants. but in the other movies and in the comics i NEVER got the impression he treated mutant lives like human placation currency. thats how he seems in this movie.
I know it's slightly off-topic, and probably not even something mentioned in the video itself, but Mystique's infamous line where she asks that you might want to change the name to X-Women, I don't necessarily have a problem with such a conversation, but the way Jennifer Lawrence delivers the line makes Mystique come off as a straw character here. It's on par with "You know, men are always taking credit for women's words and I'm sick of it!" from The Emoji Movie. But no, clearly the Star Wars sequel trilogy and Captain Marvel are too political just because they feature female leads who are too overpowered/positive/whatever despite rarely if ever calling attention to said characters' gender.
I actually have not seen Dark Phoenix or The Emoji Movie, and for now I hope that sticks!
I mean, can you blame Charles for doing whatever he can to keep the peace especially after he saw the bad future of Days of Future Past.
Raven : "Maybe this team should be called X women instead of X men"
*Yes we did it, we dit Patrick, we ended sexism*
"Why don't you do anything?"
"I'm in a wheelchair"
that's the only woke moment in d movie too bad that 2 seconds scene loss some potential paying viewers
Last time I Checked no one even existed without quicksilver and the carry job he did in apocalypse
Just call it W-men
Worst part is, IIRC, there's something in a previous installment which straight-up contradicts this.
Also, the fact that Xavier is the only one who knows the dark future from days of future past adds to the theme of why he is willing to sacrifice one mutant to save the lives of many.
How?
@@jonahmordhaim2705 when Logan goes back in time, he tells Xavier that's (the 1st timelines future/DOFP) why he was there and explains why Xavier has to help him stop Raven to change the timeline/prevent the Sentinels from being made and hunting mutants. or preventing an even darker future.
@@jonahmordhaim2705 To put it as the movie did it, Logan let McAvoy-Xavier read his mind, which allowed him to do a pseudo-time travel to see the future and talk to Stewart-Xavier
@@angelinas3244 It would fare better in Dark Phoenix if he actually said this was his reason, so he sounds more strategic and not blindly kind, like if humans want to design sentinels maybe make that clear
@@bennyton2560 that would make it worse
Can we agree Martha is the best character in DC and Marvel. Her name can stop any fight.
That stuff I call it "The Naruto Effect". It is incredible how in that anime Naruto can change ANYONE with only words man HAHA its stupid
Apparently Martha may be:
She-who-shall-not-be-named.
Everybody's safe word.
@@pepeid7420 Oh, god. Naruto goes to ridiculous levels:
"Let's forgive Orochimaru".
"What?? Why?? He basically started the 4th Ninja war!!"
"Ye, but he helped finish it..."
@@DonVigaDeFierro *obito wants to end the world*
*obito kills a fking lot of people*
*obito feels alone*
naruto: "yo obito, you are not alone"
*obito changes his mind and helps them to save the world*
... like DUDE WTF!
@@pepeid7420 we call that "Talk no Jutsu". It fixes anything in the plot. I love that anime but that is the worst plot device. Even worse than Hashirama cells and all those ass pulls from Dark Zetsu.
The Martha effect: A dumb or pointless phrase that automatically resolves all dramatic tension the moment it's uttered.
And we have Snyder and the masterpiece Batman vs Superman to thank for this.
I remember something they said about deus ex machina. is it the word you are taking about?
@@GK-ut9nc no, literally Martha Effect: thanks to the Martha scene in B vs S, it is names whenever a phrase is uttered that is so dumb it ruins a scene.
@@GK-ut9nc no, literally Martha Effect: thanks to the Martha scene in B vs S, it is names whenever a phrase is uttered that is so dumb it ruins a scene.
@@GK-ut9nc I would say it's similar maybe.
I lost it when Mystique got killed and Cap was like, "Walk it off." 😂😂😂
Lmao
Lol
**I thought I told you to walk it off**
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH LMFAOOOOOOOO
You dumbass. It was Gandalf that said that to them
The movie literally ended with a trainwreck
*insert Seinfeld theme
Nice one
Beginning and middle too.
And the train was full of those Mutant Containment Unit (MCU) guys. Symbolism at its finest.
The opening of Dark Phoenix is probably the closest we've gotten to that feeling of the 90s animated cartoon, where the team feels like a team, all contributing towards a common goal, using their powers in creative ways to get the mission completed.
Raven gets killed.
Everyone: shocked!
Captain: “Walk it off!
Had me dying💀😂
Me: didn't care, (new class Raven sucks)
kyotheman69 what are you talking about old raven did nothing she barely talked and was not a character, just a tool in battle for magneto
@@arkanamaster4961 Dude, tits! Almost uncovered tits!
😅
Since we’re talking about conflict, I’d like to point out the cops showing up at the Grey house out of nowhere. There’s literally no reason for that, Jean didn’t do any real damage yet and it happened way too fast. It’s just the writers wanting to escalate the situation. Therefore said conflict feels hollow.
This happened again when the military popped up at Genosha because they somehow knew that Jean would fly to Magneto.
"Help! I'm being stabbed!"
"Hold on Sir, a car will be there within the hour."
"Hi, there is a teenager is throwing a tantrum and there are some suspicious colored teens here arguing!"
"WE'RE ON OUR FUCKING WAY! Keep an eye on those black kids!"
"What? Black kids? No I said COLORED! One of them is bright blue and red with yellow eyes and the other is navy blue and has a tail or something.."
"O shit yeah! MUTANTS! Even better! We're sending the cavalry!"
We don’t know exactly where the cops were at the time. For all we know, they could have been on their break at a donut shop nearby the Grey House. Lol, kind of joking and not joking. Anyways, Jean was already getting hostile and John was getting worse about it. Given that there is no indication the John is a very loud person until Jean came around, this would cause some alarm in general. Add the fact that a plane was literally shaking the house, which means it would be shaking the other streets houses, the neighbors would be on that way before the conversation between Jean and the X-Men started.
As for the Magneto and Genosha and the military? Think about it. Jean is a mutant. Genosha is a safe haven for mutants with no homes. It’s kind of a no-brainer since they have no idea what Jean can do beyond moving things out of nowhere.
I thought Jean’s father secretly called the cops when he went to get her water.
To be honest... like 80% percent of movies does this... conflict barely even starts but you can already hear the sirens approaching.
It seems stupid, because we all know that it takes at least half an hour for the police to arrive...
But showing that someone is calling the police/ describing the situation/ arguing with the dispatcher whether the situation requires police intervention or not and then the characters just standing around in the set and waiting, would fuck up the flow of the scene bad.
It's one of the internal rules of any movie. Just like that you don't see the characters of a movie to go out and take a shit, or clip their nails or whatever.
If it doesn't directly impacts the happenings they'll not show it, because it's just waste of time, and doesn't add anything to the story.
- Thief: Your money or your life.
- Me: MARTHA!
- Thief: I've done with this life, I will enlist in the army to fight terrorism.
the murthafacking magic word
lol
You forgot to tell, that the thief gave you all the money he stole, to give it to charity.
And then everyone clapped
i dont get the martha joke, can anyone explain?
“Whose blood is that?”
“I don’t wanna talk about it”
This isn’t some minor emotional turmoil. You killed someone-by accident, but you did. You don’t get to “not want to
talk about it”
Yeah she asked for helped but then rejected to talk about it, threw a tantrum and then flew off
I really hated that part. Well, that part made me hate her a bit. I just like Raven a lot & to know she killed her like it was nothing then just flew away like Mary Poppins makes me mad...
@@randomguy9988 so classic gen z teenager then?
"Hey we are all villains here, it's good. I killed the maid this morning after breakfast, and I have a killing scheduled later after my weekly meeting with the brotherhood of evil mutants. So who did you kill? Or should I ask 'how many'? Just make sure to log whoever's blood that is in our database for when we are allocating resources at our half-year murder-progress meeting"
@@glebbokhan9777 Judging by your attitude you were probably fifty times worse in your teens.
10:40 No, it is not a dilema that does not have an answer. Jean's father hated her. It is Xavier's obligation NOT to tell an young child that her father despised her. She had no right to hate Xavier for this. She was directing toward him the dispontment she had for her own father.
He says it's like a dilemma with no clear answer from Xavier perspective... And thus make the conflict between Xavier and Jean great.. The only problem this movie has is in the finale battle Jean feels okay with Xavier Reason in the end altough She already knew the reason right after she met her father?
she had the right to be upset about being used and lied to
@@themimsy But if she is really upset... then in the finale there's no reason for her accepting Xavier Decision to hide the truth from her
She can read minds, right before she killed Raven she could've read Charles mind and found the exact same explaination..
@@themimsy Charles did NOT use her! He never used anyone! He just wanted to give his kids a home and stability. They lived in peace before Raven darkened his doorstep again, demanding they be militarized.
Projection. Exactly this.
"The rescue scene has a lot of time pressure"
LIterally the time they spent talking, Nightcrawler could've teleported back into the shuttle with Quicksilver, Quicksilver could've run the entire place 237 times, got the captain, refurbished the shuttle, built a sand castle, written 5 fan fics, wanked a couple times, teleported back and they still would have about a couple minutes to return.
That's the problem throughout the entire movie. They force these drama sequences, they don't feel organic. It's just a re-hash of X-men 3 with better soundtrack and visual effects. And a shitty villain thrown into the mix just for shits and giggles.
this is called nitpicking, and no, the movie has nothing to do with X3, amazing that to this day people keep spreading that misinformation, also disney meddling fucked this movie up
Completely agree. That's why the movie was terrible, something very non organic about the plot and pacing. First time I completely disagreed with filmento
@@CabezasDePescado Dude, it would probably been real nice to have the creators original version of this movie. It most likely would have been great. But we're talking about the movie we currently have, not the movie we could have had.
And no it's not nitpicking. The characters wasted time in that scene without being active and using their abilities efficiently, so that Jean would have to act and the rest of the movie could happen.
@@CabezasDePescado
How is it nitpicking when in the very same scene you have Quicksilver rescuing everyone in a second and for some God forsaken reason they decide to take Jean next to "hold the shuttle together" so they can slowly walk around it to find the captain?
And yeah, it's a silly rehash of X3, regardless if you like the movie or not. They just changed the focus from Magneto being the bad guy (which is funny how Filmento did some mental gymnastics to ignore it is the same Magneto of this "universe" doing the same things yet again) to abstract, generic alien #3682 being the baddie in the end.
Et Cogito Ergo Sum
It really isn’t nitpicking. It’s an actual issue with the film and not using logic. It’s pretty simple.
"whose blood is this?" Well.... certainly not Raven's. She was like 30 feet away when she died. Seriously, Jean, whose blood is that? Who else did you kill?
Thanks to Honest Trailers for that.
Actually, there was no blood on Jean's shirt right after she killed Raven.
But she then walked over to her to see how she was after the accident
@@KeyboardVigilante So what the blood just clung to her like a magnent? She shouldn't have gotten blood on her.
@@metazoxan2 she touched her
Pierced artery explains everything
They could've gone out on a high note with Logan, but instead they decided to go out on a brown note.
Umm, actually - a brown note gives the ending more flavor than a highnote! 🤓
Yours truly,
Karen
This movie was okay.
you just reminded me of how good that movie is. Welp, guess imma watch it again friday for the sake of it :)
Naughty Avatar it really wasn’t
They should've worn their brown pants
The third act was literally a cinematic train wreck
Unstoppable force vs immovable object?
"Nothing Stopps the Juggernaut!" vs. "Nothing moves the Blob!"
dOn’T YoU kNOw whO I aM? I’m tHe JuGgERnauT, bItcH!
I have to disagree with you defending the first half if the movie. I checked out when raven said "risking our lives for them" and Xavier didn't immediately tell her there is no "us and them". That's the whole point of the series, and if you didn't get that you wouldn't be on the team.
Also they're was the whole "X-Woman" uproar, but am I the only one who remembers it was Raven's idea to call the team the X-Men in first class?
Lol given that this franchise tends to forget about things that happened just one film prior, i think the best way to think of the series as an anthology series like American Horror Story, where the same actors return to a completely new story and universe
Except in this case, Mystique is right. This isn’t a solving for conflict between humans and mutants. This is Xavier capitalizing on the fame he attained for brining peace to humans and mutants. The space shuttle was a human problem. Not a mutant one or one that would have tipped the balance of peace for humanity and mutantdom. Thereby, the X-Men were indeed risking their lives for them in this case. This would have had no impact on mutants and only on Charles rep himself.
Correction: It was Moira's idea
Fran Creeps really? Haven't seen first class in a while but I could have sworn Raven said it right after she gave herself the name Mystique. I'll have to rewatch it.
@@PFiction24 yea it was mctaggert that suggested the name
Old Magneto: sees jean kill Xavier. Doesn’t lose it.
Young magneto: hears jean killed mystique. RAGE QUIT!
MARTHA!
problem solved
Extreme anger is often used as a substitute for real character development. Disney Star Wars villains are a prime example
Daniel Lipko well for Kylo ren it was used as comedy but unlike the others he did develop.
Old Magneto: Sees Mystique getting turned into human, leaves her behind as if she was nothing
Young Magneto: DON'T U DARE TO MESS WITH MAH GURL.
Seriously why are the "prequels" all about Mystique? makes no sense other than Jennifer Lawrence got big while making these films.
@@danletko game of thrones season 8 made dany extremely angry just because they wanted to end the show in next couple of episodes
To me the issue that made Dark Phoenix feel mediocre to me was the most important part, Jean's internal conflict. It's not about her inner demons, it's just the cosmic force making her way more unstable. She should be unstable from the start - actually, that should be fully established in the previous movies and brought back to light in the first minutes of the movie. What if the rescue fails because of Jean's emotional instability, and the Force draws to her because of it, instead of causing it? It would push Xavier against a wall, facing discontentment from humans and Raven/Hank alike, in addition to Jean's frustration boiling up exponentially because of the Phoenix energy.
That is what the Dark Phoenix Saga is about. It isn’t about Jean’s inner demons. It’s about Jean changing in personality after attaining total power. Total power corrupts. That is what the Dark Phoenix Saga is about. Not about Jean’s inner struggles with her darkness. She doesn’t ever have that inner darkness until Mastermind starts tampering with her mind. So the movie isn’t entirely right, but they are a closer depiction than what you described.
Honestly, a better solution would have been this: have the scene with her fighting Apokolips in the prior movie be taken as a genuine demonstration the Phoenix force was already there, maybe show something about a space mission as a flashback somehow, and then have her start the movie very much in control of the Phoenix Force. Then have someone, maybe the Mastermind used in the comics, trick her into causing mass destruction using that power, which can result in her accidentally killing Raven. This would result in her still running away, scared of hurting people now that she managed to accidentally kill a friend with her powers, and if you want, have Mastermind follow along and keep her seeing things that aren't real. Heck, have her see tons of sentinels attacking people, keep the anger going. Then the lady offering to take the power away can show up. Then, when Xavier is getting hurt by it, he can break through to her with a telepathic message, having caught Mastermind a bit before, and telling her that it isn't her fault, but rather the people claiming to help her. Then that could result in her both calming down from her crazy spree, and also at the same time ending up infuriated at the idiots, and try to slaughter them all.
That's exactly what the movie was about. It was entirely for people who have read the comics already, he just decided to not acknowledge any of that and call her outbursts" inner demons" when it was really just the cosmic force amplifying her emotions.
Let's doff out hats to Fassbender as Magneto. Damn his is so good in that role.
One Thing for every writer out there:
Please, no more inner demons and no more conflict based on a misunderstanding. This is just sooo daed, and i cannot enjoy a movie that uses such cheap plot devices.
Lol it's a superhero movie. Not the usual suspect.
I like inner demons
I agree about conflicts based on misunderstandings though
You're advocating for the eradication of highschool romance slice of life anime you monster
t even they can be formed around a conflict of interest (for example, Kaguya-sama is great at doing that)
I still dont get how Magneto is just forgiven for all of the atrocity's he's done.
In the comics, they've done a much better job of showing that Magneto isnt so easily forgiven. More than once he is in literal court after being pardoned. Having the prove that he has changed.
And having to prove himself to others.
I think some of these movies show that better than others.
Bad writing
@@lordsaladiino8851 I don't see bad writing here.
How many atrocities is he meant to have done in this series?
He shouted Martha to the authorities.
@@MegaSpideyman Attempted assassination on the President. Almost starting ww3 during the coldwar
Personally, always thought the biggest flaw of the X-men as a whole when adapting to film is there's TOO many of them to focus on/shove into a movie. TV show you could get away with it by shifting focus over a season or just admitting some of them just aren't interesting enough to have a movie focus on. NOW, the biggest flaw of this Fox X-Men franchise was well, Outside of Hugh Jackman's Wolverine who got the most development, attention, screentime, and THE best movie with Logan then came Deadpool who said, alright we are gonna do it completely different and keep the # of X-men or characters from the comics to a minimum to give them an opportunity to stand out rather than shoving as many as we can in.
And finally, the Phoenix saga as a whole, I've never read the comics about this but from what I've seen/read you can't just do it in one film, it has to be done as a trilogy minimum with Jean Grey in the foreground, mini-series probably better to do it right. OR You need to hire the right writer who can adapt it by keeping the heart but losing the unnecessary fat.
In theory you would need at least one movie of jean becoming the phoenix and what it means for her and the team etc. And one where she becomes dark phoenix and the team is forced to hunt her down before she kills someone.
@@johnwinchesterp2963
Film 1: We get to know Jean Grey but we see the phoenix lurking under the surface.
Film 2: The Phoenix comes out and it's conflict between Jean and the Phoenix with the Phoenix side winning in the end. and the X-Men hesitate to hurt/kill Phoenix because they'd be killing Jean.
Film 3: Dark Phoenix rampaging across the globe
@@Tadicuslegion78 I would say your first movie should be where jean is in the background but you get a good feel on her but with no phoenix. Just a sense that jean hasn't reached her full potential. The second would be the one where she is possessed by the phoenix but she is in charge like in the comics but it will all end up well with a small nudge of what could happen if jean loses control of her powers. And in the third shit will happen because of some stuff others did jean will become dark phoenix. A movie with jean as dark phoenix from the beginning to end is difficult because the phoenix force isn't a good villain. It has no motivations and it can destroy planets. If it is in charge then game over. And it would be tiring to see jean struggling to contain phoenix force from destroying everyone for the whole movie.
The Phoenix Saga from the comics contained several excellent elements that drive the narrative, most of which are ignored in movie adaptations.
*) Jean being the only one with a chance to pilot a shuttle through radiation. She sacrificed herself here, she chose to do it, and there literally was no other option.
*) An incubation period, where it was hinted her powers had grown but were not revealed.
*) Jean saves the universe. Showing this as a power that was used for incredible good on a cosmic scale is critical to her fall. Again, an action only she could have done. It required the power of the Phoenix. That all of existence owes her makes the later decisions (by Lilandra, Xavier, etc) to take her out more difficult. No, just saving the X-Men is not good enough to satisfy this.
*) The defeat by Magneto. Thinking that the rest of the X-Men were dead leaves Jean vulnerable to manipulation.
*) Mastermind. So much better of a villain than what we see in the movie. This emotional manipulation and attempted corruption is critical to what happens next. The Hellfire Club is not AS critical, but Mastermind's use of her in order to get into the club is important.
*) Phoenix cutting herself off one by one -- easily defeating the X-Men, failing to reconnect with her family and then threatening them, the showdown between Xavier and Phoenix. Her committing genocide on SUCH a grand scale is also critical. Not Thanos-style genocide, but as an unfeeling side effect of satisfying her hunger. There's temptation to axe this last part, to make it all about what she COULD do if we didn't stop her. Killing an X-Men is no substitute, as personal the act might be.
*) The Trial of the Phoenix. Phoenix Must Die! Another external forces Jean into action. I'm sure moviemakers think that this step can just be combined with the last step, to make her showdown with Xavier the last, ultimate conflict. That's a mistake. This is important because it shows that Phoenix could return to normal, but every X-Man gives it their all. They can't limit themselves. When they're in battle, when they're saving a life, they have to do everything they can. Doing everything she can brings temptation to the fore, a power that overwhelms Phoenix's moral centers. Jean Grey died because she knew that some situation would eventually come up again that would require her to use the full extent of her abilities. "Jean Grey to Marvel Girl to Phoenix to Dark Phoenix. Inevitable.
Later comics would retcon the hell out of that last point, but I'm talking about the plot of Phoenix/Dark Phoenix as it was presented in the 1970s and 1980.
This was too much to do as one film. X-Men 2 at least tried to get the ball rolling nicely, with talk about Jean's increasing power levels throughout the movie and her sacrifice and off-screen resurrection at the end. Unfortunately X-Men 3 relegated the Phoenix storyline to a B-plot.
Oh, and finally, I know there's been 30 years of retcons that established the opposite, but to make a really good first Phoenix story, make the Phoenix Jean Grey. No external Phoenix Force that contacts her. Nothing that infects her, nothing that clones her, none of that regardless of how well it worked out later. Phoenix should be Jean, that is what makes the fall of the character such a tragedy at the time.
My favourite "action" scene -- even though it doesn't include much action -- was when Jean and Magneto were fighting for control of the helicopter. Michael Fassbender's acting was just brilliant. I really felt like he was giving it everything he had to save those people, and seeing Magneto actually SAVE people showed the depth of his character. At his best, he's not just a villain. He's a complex human being who does what he feels is right in the moment, and sometimes that can even be an heroic act.
I've seen a ton of Fimento videos now, and have to say this is the only time I have to disagree with him on many issues. JenLaw was at her weakest (she had been wanting to exit the franchise for a long time by then), Jean Grey was boring and emo (instead of firey and ferocious), Scott was still a pathetic simp rather than bold team leader, Xavier as the bad guy was weakly done, and while most of the cast did try their best (with exception of the lead JenLaw again), Fasbender's Magento was once again the (only) stellar standout.
Glad someone is giving this film its due. The first acts are some of the best X-men film stuff ever.
That "Martha" part caught me off guard. What a twist!
Shyamalan: They used to say that about me... but, like in a good way.
Very twisty
Some of the acting is goofy and hilarious especially with Magneto, Jean and the Helicopter.
Lee Jones yesssss that’s what I said
can't believe he actually liked this well first two parts, sorry the acting is laughable and cringe especially Raven
@@kyotheman69 X Women line is awful
Yeah, but... Still better than X-men Origins: Wolverine.
What about Monotone Jessica Chastain?
I was disappointed when they made some aliens the real bad guys.
I was too, who cares about those?
in b4 the injun argument
@@Adrian-pp6qy lmaooo
@@Adrian-pp6qy uhh, what!?
Fun fact, Jessica Chastain and the other aliens were meant to be the Skrulls (You know, Ben Mendelsohn's character Talos), but when Fox asked Marvel/Disney for the rights to the characters they said no because they were planning to use the Skrulls in both Captain Marvel & Spider-Man: Far From Home.
So is it just me, or was Magneto super cute in this movie? I also noticed for the first time that he wears metal bracelets so he can lift himself up. What a cutie
What
@@indexifee8791 what he's cute! Michael Fassbender is awesome
This should have been included in Civil War, Fox be damned. Imagine X- Men working with Avengers on missions with this conflict escalating to all- out war.
The film would have never seen the light of day sadly.
@@TheCrusaders13 Well, one can hope....
@@geraldstephens6612 Now Deadpool comes to save both universe
I was just pissed they called it 'Jeans Grey school of mutants at the end'
Why? It’s comic accurate since Wolverine does just that after Schism.
Come back Xavier-
It a reference tothe comics i thinksince WOlverine starts a school with that exact name and becomes head instructor with Kitty as his Co-Principal
Eh well it could have been worse-like an alien coming down and the movie being twice and once with old Charles Xavier and one with young-oh yeah maybe it was worse...
@@fishnewt1331 Doesn't mean she bloody deserved it. Mystique/Raven deserved it more from what the franchise has weirdly built her up to be.
Joaquin Phoenix > Dark Phoenix
Britbong well.. duh lol
@@xshxr I wouldn't be surprised he thought Batwoman was deep
@@setyyppisuomesta8448 Well, it is deep. A deep hole of shit that is. *_I'm A Woman!_*
@@piccoloatburgerking Indeed, I wasn't expecting H.P. Lovecraft levels of deep but come on..
@@setyyppisuomesta8448 Lovecraftian storytelling is infinite multiverses apart from Batwoman so that's that. lmao
I like your video and editing but I disagree with you on Dark phoenix.
I wouldn't say the movie is great, not even 50%.
Regarding the civil war portion of Dark Phoenix, I have an issue with it that made me not enjoy it. The conflict felt contrived, or forced, not sure of the exact word I'm looking for here. I might not be remembering the film correctly so I might get things wrong.
It kept trying to convince us that Charles was wrong and arrogant (and this also felt out of nowhere) and then everybody turns against him. I had a problem with this because to my eyes, he was in the right.
But him trying to save the astronauts at the expense of mutants seems to make sense because we later see how weak the mutant-human relations are. The president asked him, simply saying no would have hurt relations. Also, the world was almost destroyed by a powerful mutant in the last movie and how many times have mutants endangered the population. So relations are definitely important but not to Raven because she only cares about mutants I guess. Charles blocking Jean's past also makes sense because she has a lot of power, she was a child at the time and was responsible for her mother's death. Recipe for disaster.
I wouldn't mind the movie questioning Charles actions but the way the film is structured, it is outright saying Charles was wrong and Raven was right and I completely disagree. Heck, they stole Charles school from him and renamed it after Jean Grey, a murderer. Ok.
I despise Raven, might be because of the actress, but also because the character seems so condescending and ungrateful considering her past with Charles and all he had sacrificed for mutants. She knows how bad things can be but she just saying "bla bla bla ego". And the line about the women are always saving the men is just cringe and wrong considering they would all be dead if not for Quicksilver. She wouldn't be there if not for Charles, etc. Seriously, why is that line there? Heck if it wasn't for him, she would have been a murderer and doomed Mutant lives. Glad she died.
Fully agree
Exactly, I thought the whole time that Xavier was always right. At the end he still was.
I think a big portion of the character shift when it comes to Charles Xavier is mostly because Kinberg decided to take the iconic plots of the original Phoenix Saga and place them here, though haphazardly (and obviously, not as well as he expected). If I'm not mistaken - and please correct me if I am wrong - Charles Xavier's character wasn't always the all-good, peace-preaching, humble and self-sacrificing professor that most of us know and classify him as. In the earlier comic runs of the Uncanny X-Men, Xavier was arrogant and demanding, and shared more of the characteristics that made Magneto, well, Magneto. This same run, I believe, was also utilized in the Phoenix Saga.
But yeah, regardless of the character shift, Xavier was still in the right in this film. Jean Grey, as an omega-class mutant holding a special kinship with a timeless cosmic entity that is responsible for reality, is a recipe for disaster. It did feel contrived in the sense that, well, none of this was ever built up - and therein lies the faulty direction and writing of Simon Kinberg (who, btw, also contributed to the even worse Phoenix Saga adaptation, or trying-to-be-an-adaptation in X3: The Last Stand).
Someone dropped a comment above in one of the threads, but to reiterate and keep it short, you cannot make a movie focusing on the Dark Phoenix Saga without first establishing Jean Grey's character and the Phoenix Saga before it. He (Simon Kinberg, as director, producer and writer of Dark Phoenix) tried to combine two huge sagas that have intense impact on Jean Grey's character, Xavier's and the main X-Men (sagas that should have been adapted into, at the very minimum, a trilogy), her Phoenix powers, her losing control and the Dark Phoenix consumption of galaxies and the X-Men's reluctant quest to stop her, into one movie.
It'd be like if Marvel decided to combine Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame into one movie. Without a strong narrative that has been built right from the start, it was bound to come crashing down.
It's 2019 and we've experienced more than a decade of live-action films adapted from comic books. Why is the 1994 X-Men Animated Series' 9-episode adaptation of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix saga STILL the best adaptation? This will forever bug me.
Charles repressing Jean’s trauma was definitely not the right way to go. Ask any therapist.
@@kenjinpiniteu Yes
I don’t think any movie is going to top Civil War for me. I just love it so much and it meant so much for the characters.
I wish they would've killed off one of the characters in that movie, I mean sure Endgame gave us 2 Avenger deaths, but I think Civil War also should've had one, not sure who, but someone.
@@Werewolf914 they could've easily killed Rhodey but I think there saving him for armor wars .
The Dark Knight is a much better film
Marvel sucks
@@manwithnoname8229 Nah, Dark Knight was full of lazy writing and needed its villain to drive the film cause its lead wasn't enough.
Villain :"I thought you were dead"
Magneto:""I changed my mind"
I'm gonna be honest here. It's hard to take Filmento seriously when he praises the movie while showing clips featuring some of the worst acting I've ever seen in a big-budget film. Jennifer Lawrence clearly was doing as little effort as possible for this movie, and it's so obvious that she didn't care about this role.
Filmento: This movie is great! Check out awesome scenes like this:
Mystique: "Maybe this team should be called X-Women instead of X-Men."
Me: Filmento, are you okay?
You will have to do a lot more than just mention Mystique to bring your point, since Mystique wasn’t there for the whole movie.
Gerald Weir agreed
The pathetic and painful amount of wahmen wokeness that made a character bipolar was almost laughable.
Literally tell a person who now has to use a wheelchair, that he has never sacrificed anything and it's always the women, how tf can you say this was a well made movie?
@@davidgatsby3775 The funny thing is that the film's main flaw was putting so much emphasis on the women who mostly seemed like they didn't want to be involved. Play to your strengths, Michael Fasbender was clearly giving it his all and James McAvoy was also quite good. Why focus so much on Jennifer Lawrence, who has publicly stated that she didn't enjoy working on the films?
Im just waiting for the Joker review.
Kamerbom Kai oh god, he’s going to rip into that movie 😂
it just came out on cinema ... it will be a while
Julia Turner he can't, it's just too good
We have to wait for dvd/stream release
r/wooooooooooosh
This goes to show you that even if you have a well written script and confident voice doesnt mean your arguement is right... this movie was extremely poorly constructed with very little emotional ties to the characters to give any events emotional weight not even to mention the whole unnecessary villain storyline and lackluster plot...
I realy disliked that bs with raven, jesus christ she was just biching all the time about that X-man should stop risking theres lives for humans while not realizing that they are protecting there own world. she should watch some more spider man movies
"Why don't you do anything?"
"I'm in a wheelchair"
I absolutely lost it when you put the smile on Tony Stark's face, my cats freaked out due to me exhaling through my nose extremely loudly. Hyvää duunia taas.
There were 2 glaringly obvious issues with this film/these x-men films for anyone who ever liked x-men before all this.
The complete mishandling of Mystique PURELY because she was played by Jennifer Lawrence, and Xavier PURELY because they didn't want him overshadowing how good Mystique is
*_While The Dark Phoenix is just a pointless fan service movie, Deadpool is just snorting the the dust of the Avengers._*
Mr. Friendship lmao
no
Fan service? Who the fuck thinks shitting on characters like Cyclops, Storm, Magneto and Xavier are fan service? This movie had everything wrong... Characters acting completely out of themselves and making the most STUPID decisions ever... Jean is just... Horrible compared to what we were given from animated shows and comics... Magneto can't do anything else than just being a good guy turning bad and back to good again... The rest are NPCs... Horrible NPCs, i mean even their costumes and CGI suck...
shitting on beloved characters isn't fan service, its de-service, for me there's only been two good x-men movies, first class and future past, rest were meh or bleh at best
They just shit on fan with this movie
The X-Men franchise should have stopped with Logan. That was the most perfect ending ever, but nope. Fox flew way too close to the sun with Dark Phoenix.
Fox flew over the cucus nest ey
Michael Strong exactly especially since x men was going to the MCU anyway so nobody cared about this movie coming out.
Ain't that the truth
@@jknetwork6211 Dark Phoenix has been showed a number of times, so I fear that there's never going to be a good adaptation because it's already been "done." That's depressing.
@julianzolo To me, it's more like the old generation of mutants are dead, but a new generation will live on. That's a more fitting ending than whatever they were going for in Dark Phoenix.
I remember in one of the earlier movies Raven was rescuing Magneto and step in front of a dart ment for Magneto which turns mutants into normal humans from a mutant
Then he instantly discarded her because she was no longer a mutant so it seems strange that Magneto cares so much for Raven now
Yeah but this is like in another universe and different actors and actresses.
Completely different timeline at this point. The Last Stand was completely erased thanks to Days of Future Past
@@Exonorm27 crazy I never thought about that
One thing I really like about this film is seeing Michael Fasbender as Magneto.
When Raven died, you can see Beast's left eyebrow falling off his face. It's not in this video though.
Also, great video. I only saw the movie once and don't really remember it. Though I remember saying it's not Green Lantern.
I love that definition of conflict. First it's a conflict caused by ideologies and individual views, but that has to lead to a personal conflict so that it turns into something much more powerful and entertaining to watch.
I do disagree with your first "Martha" moment - up to that point, Jean knew that Charles /said/ that he wanted to help/protect her, but she also knew he'd lied to her about her father, and believed that his betrayal went further than just the one lie - that if her own father couldn't love her, nor could anyone else, and Charles only wanted her for her power - that he'd consistently lied and manipulated her so he could use her.
What she learned - the new information she gained - in that scene was that, unlike her actual father, Charles cared about her from the start, and believed she could be in control rather than her powers raging out of control. And when Jean understood that, despite having reprised what caused her real father to reject her - losing control of her powers, and killing a close family member - despite that, Charles didn't reject her, still believed in her ability to regain control, still cared for her. When she understood that, that's what turned things around.
So, yeah, not new information for the audience, but new information for Jean.
Yeah, even Jean had given up on herself. She actually said that her father had a good reason to abandon her.
Its a good point, but personally I still think its lame that this information is transferred through mind reading of all things. I think one movie that did solve the conflict successfully somehow was Deadpool 2. He could have told the fat kid a million times that he cared for him, but it took him taking a bullet for him to believe him. That's how you solve a conflict not through dialogue or mind reading, but actions.
I don't think it was stupid that she had a sudden change of hearth. She still cared about everyone, but was hurt and angry. She hadn't gone full evil, she has two conflicting sides fighting, and that line brought up the more positive emotions, just like a trigger can bring out negatives.
Cyclops:Raven bla bla bla
Erik and hank: Understandable have a nice day
The last act of the film was the result of a forced reshoot from the studio, so I’m not entirely surpirised with that reception.
What a surprise
And yet the reshoot that made the movie atleast entertaining enough. Like when it got to that train sequence, it literally became a completely different movie for some reason
This is worse than bad, its dull. A bad can still be fun, like Suicide Squad. A dull film is just a waste of time and money.
there already is a kinberg cut.
its called The Last Stand and its ending was also terrible
Dude, Kinberg only wrote a draft for The Last Stand that got heavily rewritten by Zak Penn.
And this shows that it would have been bad if it went with his first draft.
This wasn’t based on his first draft.
@@agentofchaos7456 I know, I'm last would stand would have been bad regardless.
Eh preferred the Phoenix bit with the last stand. Wolvey being forced to kill the woman he loved but was insane was gut wrenching
13:02 that literally almost killed me I started choking on my food.
15:00 would be like if Tony said to StarLord: "Don't hit Thanos, we almost got the glove off", "Ok".
While, yes, "Raven" dying does wonders for the story, she's only killed off because "JLaw" got bored.
Jlaw hated playing mystic after 1st class
@@lkcdarzadix6216 and the audience hated her as Mystique after First Class
@@MrBobthened you can't really blame her cause she thought this was one off and thought mystic would change actress
@@MrBobthened Eh, she was fine in DOFP.
@@lkcdarzadix6216 Then why did she sign a multi-movie contract to play Mystique?
Just gonna say it...
Sophie is NOT the right person to be playing as Jean! Terrible choice of an actress for such a great character.
i think she was good
You can't blame the actress, it's the writing
she‘s just not goodlooking enough.
@@Gunpla-miniature no it’s because she can’t do a convincing American accent
@@Gunpla-miniature excuse me?
6:37 one of the funniest filmento moments
Howto-be-daDeweyYT, I didn‘t understand that reference. I didn‘t see that movie.
One thing, i thought about the whole X-Men Franchise is, that i just don't care about most of the (except a few people like Logan, Charles, Erik or Raven), because they had so many annoying redcons in their movies. I just lost the sight, what happened to them or if it happened at all in this time line
To be fair, its not just words that turn her back. Shes reading his mind, meaning she lives the events through him. She feels as he felt, the pain of having to do something horrible for what he thinks would lead to the best outcome for all. In mind reading there is no room for lies, suspicion or misunderstandings, at that moment she truly knows and understands his motives and those motives were pure.
Exactly he over analyzes everything but conveniently stays ignorant to the fact that words have power
My favorite thing of this movie was the soundtrack. I was thoroughly impressed with how great Hans Zimmer made it.
I was pretty unimpressed by this movie. The whole conflict reeks of BvS because everything felt so contrived and forced because characters act differently according to what scene best suits them. Mystique is easily the worst character in the prequel timeline, and I felt nothing but satisfaction when she died. Magneto’s also pretty shoehorned into this plot too. I love Michael Fassbender, but the story didn’t really need him to be involved so he could fight Xavier again. The aliens speaks for themselves, and I’m giving as much attention to them as the film does. Jean Grey, the “protagonist” of the movie still feels pretty underdeveloped because she only was introduced in one movie and even then her powers are pretty inconsistent between here and Apocalypse. Her chemistry with Scott is rather weak and just feels like uninspired romance dialogue, and that’s what this movie is, uninspired. Everything besides the music felt dull and passionless, and it tainted what could have been a great ending to the X-Men franchise. I know people like to blame Marvel for this movie’s downfall, and whether direct or indirect, I can’t deny that they had a part in this. However, Fox ultimately made the choice to turn this from a trilogy into a single movie, and that was where this movie was doomed.
When I first watched this movie, I was surprised how unique and well done it was. It put more emphasis on character and drama than on spectacle or fan service, which made it work so much better than Apocalypse and even Days of Future Past in some areas. It felt like the X-men movies had finally matured to become something more realistic and down to earth. Then the third act happened and the entire movie fell apart. The action itself was fine, but the aliens were such a non-threat, and the X-men didn't even know they were aliens, which made it seem like nightcrawler specifically was just murdering people in a blood-thirsty rage. I agree the original ending probably would have been so much better. What a shame. Hopefully Marvel's take on the mutants learns from this and makes character-driven, dramatic stories with them, while also honoring what worked. The casting of Fassbender as Magneto might be my favorite casting for a villian ever, Macavoy as Xavier is brilliant, wish they had gone out on a higher note.
The casting choice of Scott and especially Jean already ruined this long before any shooting began
The way I was just in tears crying 😂 at 6:36 🤣 Walk it off 🤣 😂
Now that it hit me, Dark Phoenix is basically Legend of Korra season 2, they had an awesome water tribe civil war all set piece by piece and about to go off, and then they just butchered this plot with that dark avatar shit and made it the worst season ever.
I'm sorry to tell you this but legend of korra was garbage from the start.
@@Fafnd agreed but season 2 could have given it something to stand on personally i think the equalist movement was wasted entirely
@@zacharybreen8891 I've felt that Korea had a bunch of great set up plots each season, of which they've got cold feet through each of them. Ending with the most predictable and boring outcomes they could think of.
@@Fafnd I won't say it's complete garbage but it could have been much better if Nickloodean didn't fucked it up by moving it online.
@@Fafnd blind haters like you are the reason we didn't get any more work from the Avatar universe. Korra is actually a really good show exept certain parts of season 2 but they did help kick start important event plots in season 3 and 4.
The first 70% percent of this movie is garbage because every bit of this "great" conflict shouldn't even exist... This is a movie that twists characters to make unneeded conflict happen...
In fact the whole Jean going into Charles mind and calming down is one of the few things in this movie that makes perfect sense
I disagree with a few things you said here. One being that it's not at all in character for Beast to want to kill Jean. She's not only a former teammate, but a former student. Even if he disagrees with Charles, he's never agreed with Magneto, and wouldn't just decide to kill Jean, even if she killed Raven. Another more subjective point for me is that while Magneto's motivation did make sense in this movie, when you compare this movie to the rest of the series it's just another story where Magneto isn't trying to kill anyone and something brings him out of hiding so he can fight the other characters again, (even though he was friends again with Charles at the end of the last movie). The third would be that the villain is another shit generic villain, who weighs down the movie when she wasn't necessary for much of the plot. The movie would probably be better if they either expanded on the aliens and their connection to the phoenix force, or cut them out entirely to make the story more about the characters we already know. It's the same sort of issue Civil War had with it's villain. Zemo was probably one of the better/best villains in the MCU, but you could cut him out of Civil War entirely (and change a few plot details so that the movie doesn't depend on the nonsensical conveniences needed to make his plan work), and the movie would have felt more focused on the characters we already know, conflicting in a way that works just fine without having a background villain pulling the strings. I think the rest of the points you made are great, though, and this is probably the best video I've seen on what works and doesn't work for this movie.
Filmento is like if Lemmino had a kid with CinemaSins, and I had no idea how much I needed that in my life until this moment.
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A sponsor that's new ..... congrats you deserve the best
I didn't realize how empty my recommended was when there was no filmento vids to watch
I really appreciate the really unbiased and fair review here. All I have heard is bad because all anyone cares to mention is the bad. This convinced me to see it for the first 2/3 because it really sounded like a decent movie. You have convinced me to watch it and not have too high hopes so I can enjoy it.
all these analysis but the reason why dark phoenix failed is simple: The movie's main characters are under-developed and not many people care about them. Professor X was never really a main super hero in Xmen. Jean's character wasn't never fully developed in the previous installment and one can argue they casted the wrong person to play Jean. Arguably the main draw of the Xmen prequel franchise was Magneto and Raven, and you know what? they killed off Raven 20 mins in the movie.
The audience has no one to root for in Dark Phoenix and the actress who played Jean wasn't good enough to lift off the whole franchise on her shoulders....
You can't compare civil was with Dark Phoenix. It's not just the plot, it is because civil war has Ironman, and Captain America as the main character, who btw had multiple movie installments before Civil war. Their side characters include Bucky, War Machine, Black Panther, Black widow, Ant man, etc, and they are ALL vastly more interesting than the side characters like Hank in Dark Phoenix. Ffs even spiderman was in there.
It's good to talk about where the plots fail, but dark phoenix just mainly suffered from bad casting and plot. If they had properly develop Jean and Cyclops as the main heroes in the previous franchises, then dark phoenix would end very differently.
NASA: "It's incredibly difficult for us to get to space and we need this time period appropriate spacecraft to get there- Ah oh no we're in trouble."
Not-Nasa 20 year old mutants: "Don't worry we already go to space we'll help do you like our futuristic space ship."
*STORY SET-UP COMPLET*
Stand Master: Poor Plot Writting
Stand Name: [M A R T H A]
Is this a God damn Jojo's reference?
@@tiehoramphore1929 Possibly
If only DCEU Martha Wayne had shouted her own name before Joe Chill shot her and Thomas. She might have lived.
Bruh the word "martha" simply stops Bruce to consider what the hell was superman talking about because why would he know that name. At that moment, Bruce goes mad and asks him why the hell would he use that name. It's because he was going crazy in bvs. It's literally shown how mad he has gone. Batman DOES NOT KILL. That's why he was killing. That's why he was so relentless and crazy.
It was only when Lois tells him that Martha us Superman's mother does he realise that Superman was human and didn't ask for any of this. He was just manipulated into all this and it was never his intention to do the world any harm. It also makes Bruce stop hating superman because he pleads for someone else's life just like Thomas Wayne does with his dying breath. How hard can this be to understand?
@@DivvayKhatri You're not smart for knowing what the intent of the scene was. Fucking everybody knows what the intent of the scene was.
The problem is that it's both contrived and sloppily written. The goal of the scene, plain as day, was to get Superman to say "Martha" to trigger a "wtf" moment within Batman's mind. Here's the thing: if I'm asking you, even in (*especially* in) my dying breaths, to save someone you don't know, I'm not going to just give their first name and leave it at that. There are thousands of women named Martha in the country. There's probably dozens, if not hundreds, of Marthas just within that city. A last name is far more specific.
The logical thing for Superman to say would've been "Save Martha Kent!" Now Batman knows who he's supposed to be rescuing, and, as the world's greatest detective, he should be able to track her down. But if worded like that, it might distract from the "Martha" part that the entire scene is hinging on. So regardless of how much more organic the "Martha Kent" phrasing would be in that situation, they decided to take the contrived way out and stick with an ultra vague first-name basis sort of deal.
For the record, I think "Save my mother" would've been obnoxiously vague too, but even *that* is far more specific than "Save Martha" (not to mention, since when was Superman on a first-name basis with his mom? This is a total nitpick and I still hold "Save Martha Kent" would've been far more realistic and organic, but still.)
I disagree with u...there wasn't a second of this movie that I could tolerate...it was simply boring
Were you expecting a superhero event movie?
The magneto speech was awesome, hated the rest of the film.
god damn that walk it off edit was priceless,congrats to the editor
6:30 "Walk it off" yes bruh, i lost my breath dying from laughter.
Best part of the movie is when Mystique died
I completely agree. Great analysis. My reaction to the movie was exactly the same. I thought the first two thirds were great, but the climax was "meh" and I didn't realize why I thought that until now.
Not gonna lie...
1. I think the same too. It's not spectacular, but saying it the worst x-men movie feels exaggerating
2. I DIDN'T EXPECT A FILMENTO VIDEO TODAY!
Yes. Yes it is the worst. Worse than xmen origins.
@@canonkingsley6569 why?
Same. Dark Phoenix wasn't bad...it was actually better than X3: The Last Stand and X-Men: Apocalypse, and of course, X-Men Origins.
It just wasn't amazing. It wasn't spectacular. It wasn't jaw-dropping, show-stopping phenomenal. It was the Age of Ultron to Avengers: Infinity War/Endgame. It was just...OK.
@@canonkingsley6569 Last Stand is by far the worst, go read some comics because it's clear you know nothing about X-Men
Jeremy Jahn called it the worst X-Men movie basically because it wasn’t about fighting a villain. Heroes fighting heroes and a major character death doesn’t count as “something happening” to him, apparently.
I am so so glad you know what it takes to make a movie. That you know how to write, direct, produce, edit, costume design, marketing director. Man you are sooooo experienced I am so dumbfounded as to why Hollywood hasn't noticed your GIFTS. Like you are the single greatest movie Maker ever you are capable of creating a PERFECT MOVIE
Really hope Marvel does Cyclops justice when they give it a shot. I’m praying they use the original blue suit. I’d cry.
Sophie Turner is a limited actress, GoT was about her full range of skills
She wasn't even good in that.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of her acting skills. Well, there are none to begin with. Famke, on the other hand, was very good as Jean.
I call her plank, because she’s so wooden.
I was going to post exactly the same thing.
That's a bit harsh Got was her and a lot of young actors first gig and it lasted for damn near a decade she's gotta stretch her legs
bruh some of this is ridiculous, this film was a horrendous mess
Difference in opinion.
They shouldn't have let a first-time director work on something of this scale. The film is just directed in such a flat and dull way.
It wasn't made to be a summer event movie if that is what you think it was trying to be.
magneto sums up my opinion on this film very well "Your always sorry charles, and there's always a speech, but nobody cares anymore" i didn't enjoy it at all
I love this content. It’s nice, when you don’t understand what causes you to be bothered by something, to have someone with better critical faculties explain it 🙃👍