The way he's saying it, feels like he wants to make sure Dutch and Micah see their deception was for nothing, just like all the lives lost over it up to that point. At least, that's what I'm getting from it.
"Low" Arthur's voice seems so much more menacing than I remember "High" Arthur's as being. It would really change the experience of the game to listen to a more threatening growl throughout it. I would go back and replay at low honour to make more comparisons, but I never can manage to stay low :P
I highly suggest playing low honor just to experience a more realistic Arthur. He doesn’t care that he’s dying and wants better for everyone including himself where as high honor is more selfless. Also the way he talks about his dead son is slightly different and it seems like low honor Arthur never got over his death where high honor learned to move on from it
It seems like low honor Arthur is more in denial about his sickness. Notice how he's focused on the money here, even though he'll never have the time to use it, which is what high honor Arthur realizes. The details in this game are immaculate. 10/10
I just beat a high honor playthrough after doing low honor the first time. In high honor, he said he knows it's bad (his disease) and that he wanted to do the right things with the time he had left. Passing out in public multiple times and coughing blood was sign enough. At the end of rdr2, he also told John we're both not making it out of this. He said that before Micah ambushed him. I think Arthur just accepted that he was dying so his life didn't matter and nothing did except for saving John and his family.
@@tylerdemello461 i dont know what i had but my playthrough he told john there not both making it out of this but i had this conversation as well. I didnt really do high or low honor though i just played the game how i saw fit think i may have fluctuated
Imagine a dude like Charles or Arthur with no qualms about morality. They would be worse than Colm or Micah. High Honor Arthur is like Blondie from Dollar Trilogy, Low Honor Arthur would be like Angel Eyes from TGTBTU
Yea I jus finished the game for first time(long story why quit games for years) but I didn’t know that there was 4 different endings so my 1st play through to finish was 2 weeks ago, I had low honor & Micha shot me in the head, so now I want to do high honor, then middle honor & so fourth but to answer your comment, yes we do very weird/bad shit lol
did you notice when arthur is in low honor when he is mentioning the names of all gang members that died he mentions johns name last as it's who died recently and that's john (well he didn't die but you get my point) but if arthur is high honor he will mention johns name first. Just a little detail I noticed because I recently finished the game but with high honor and he mentioned johns name first.
I've never done a low honor playthrough so this observation is based on some clips I've seen, including this one. To me it seems like high honor Arthur winds up more tired, accepting his fate as his eyes open to what's going on and deciding to save those he can from the hell Dutch is leading them towards. Whereas low honor Arthur seems much more pissed off, cursing his fate and Dutch/Micah along with it, and determined to save those he can no matter how many bodies it takes.
Why do so many people seemingly not understand Dutch's character? It wasn't the fact he was evil all along, or the trolley crash, it wasn't Micah, or Colm or the Pinkertons or even Hoseas death that turned him into the man he becomes near the end of his story. Dutch literally says why he became what he did at the end of RD-redemption 1 with his dialogue to john. Throughout the story he is trying to fight "change" in and of itself which is personified by the civilization of the west, because he can't adapt to it, and it's not in his "nature" to give in to change and no longer fight it. There are actually moments in the story where he speaks with Arthur and you can tell he is almost close to realizing the hopelessness of fighting civilization, and seemingly wants to accept what Arthur is saying about how times have changed and that "folks like us ain't needed no more" But every time Dutch sadly falls to his own nature. A good example of this internal struggle and really the last time you can see it is during the opening cutscene where you "pay a social call" to Cornwall. Arthur legitimately gets through to dutch for a few seconds, before Micah interjects about leaving the women and children behind, which sparks Dutch's "robin hood complex" to kick back in and ignore what Arthur was saying, in favour of keeping to his nature of "fighting the good fight" as it were. I wish more people saw just how complex and honestly relatable Dutch's character is, instead of generalizing it or falling for the same black and white narratives that plague most creative works. Because it's honestly insulting to the writers and to Benjamin's amazing performance to do so. TL;DR: Did Dutch not teach you to read boah? Get back up there and read before you get lumbago of the eyes. Edit; so this comment got a lot more attention than i thought it would. I wanted to add, that at the end of the day, this is just my own opinion, and if you disagree that's fine because all forms of art are subjective in even the slightest of ways. My intent wasn't to try and push my opinion as the only correct one, but to bring up an aspect of Dutch's character that i seldom see discussed, and an aspect i believe to be the most important to his character. Cheers.
I wholeheartedly agree with you so much. I really hate this entire narrative so many people seem to believe that Dutch was always just an evil egomaniac who only cared about himself, when it makes so much more sense, and makes for a much more compelling story, for Dutch to be a naíve idealist who fails to adapt and loses his way because of it.
My first playthrough was low honor ( I missed the skiable mission ) I was so sad at the end. Thankfully on my 4th playthrough I go an ending I was pleased with Arthur really did make peace with himself and just wanted his family to get out alive. I give the game a 10/10
I like to play as Punisher Morgan, punishing all evil npc no matter what and i always try to keep it high honor but i like the tone on low honor Arthur
This is so amazing I got this on my very first play through cause I was horrible honor arthur, Sadie’s also my favorite character, her character development was something unmatched by any other character in the game, from a ranch hand up in the snow with her husband to a gunslinging outlaw? Some say she already was, crops don’t grow in snow and cattle won’t survive why was there ranch up there ?
It isn't winter 100% of the time lol. The Ranch is in a mountain valley that is likely inspired by the Colorado Rockies. You say that like the Adler ranch is in the arctic lol.
@@BasePuma4007 the Adler ranch is covered by snow the entire campaign and not once did we see any crops or livestock dead or anywhere near her farm in that storm. Why? Her farm is always covered in snow it’s on the snow part of the map lol
@@slickadooie My god. Yes, the map depicts a certain time of thr year - late spring. Which is a time where you can expect some freak snow storms in higher attitude areas like the Colorado Rockies. This is foolish overthinking. The ranch literally has a barn for horses and cattle, and a fenced in area for cattle. You are not using your brain.
I cannot believe Dutch so he rather go with Micah who's been with him 6 months didn't go with Arthur who's been with him for 6 years or more not unbelievable Arthur had Dutch's back way more than Micah even though Dutch and John argued a lot he should know that John would never tell on him it was the rat Micah Dutch knows it but he's just too blind to see it blind with money gold and loyalty that Dutch never had for Arthur in chapter 6
Low honor Arthur is the tired angry beast who got betrayed and wants revenge. High honor feels like he is a man who has realized the monster he has become and who is trying to make things right
I played this game the first time with high honor and tried to play the game with low honor but once Arthur visits the doctor I started farming good honor after that
@@RealTeX1 exactly. It doesn't make sense why go after revenge? ok, he was about to die, but saving john was the priority. But i like to think that when arthur chooses to let john go he was actually thinking that going back would draw the attention from the pinkertons so john could escape. But going back for the money.. really? why? did he thought he could take the money and bring back to sadie/john? Probably that was the idea too, i don't know
I might just found as well that if arthur has high honour, he will John, hosea, mac, davey, jenny, Sean, lenny But with low honour He will say hosea, mac, davey, jenny, Sean, lenny and now john
@@clongshanks5206 I just posted a comment regarding that moment. It's simple, low honor arthur mentiones johns name last as he's just another collateral damage that happened recently however high honor arthur will mention his name first because he cares for john.
I remember playing the first half with low honor. I did do nice things and help a few characters here and there but I still retained that low honor status. Until TB hit and that's when things changed.
Sometimes the morality gets funny when you have low honour. Like, he's saying "Dutch said robbing a poor person was beneath us, now he doesn't care who dies!" the next second "Abigail knows where the money is, we can't let her die!" lol, like the first line was an honour neutral line and the second one was a low honour line or something
This game is 4 years old, and I am only just now figuring out about this line of dialogue? I wonder how much more there is to this game that I still haven't uncovered.
Telling that story seems like it would fit High Honour Arthur too, since he's just putting into light exactly how much Dutch seems to have changed, ironically, in his life of fighting against change. It's not like High Honour Arthur didn't rob the house of that poor man. The intent of the game is to show Arthur changing. Even if you play him as a saint, he's only like that in the few months the game takes place. As much as many in Dutch's gang are not nearly as bad morally speaking as many others, they're still, as Arthur himself puts it, "Bad men, but... we ain't them." And like he says at the start of chapter 2 while going into Valentine, "If you ladies hadn't been here, I probably woulda robbed him" about the guy whose horse ran away.
I knew there qas different dialogue for low honor! I questioned myself because I've never beaten it High Honor, but this scene & the one where John & Arthur are blowing up the tracks. When John asks about loyalty, Arthur seems to ignore it kind of, but with low honor, he says "Loyalty? Loyalty don't mean nothing no more." Or something along those lines. I love GOW, I really do, but there is no way in hell this shouldn't have won Game of Year 2018. They went above & beyond for this. If GTA 6 has the dark undertones this game has, it will, & this is not an opinion, be the best game ever created. Technically speaking.
If GTA 6 is more in-line with RDR2 and GTA 4 in terms of tone, then holy fuck the game will be good. Not that I want 6 to be absolutely miserable, but that I want it to feel like it's serious this time. Sure being a criminal is fun and all, but they're bad people, which 4 and RDR2 demonstrate well. That's also not to say 5's story was bad, as there is quite a lot of depth to the main three and a few other like Lamar, but that's it. The cast is pretty static in terms of character development, but in 2 the gang actually has character. Sure some die sooner than others, but there's a lot you can learn to understand them better and understand their motives. Like Uncle for example, he may seem like the goofy clown to keep the camp entertained, but underneath that performance is someone who suffered for years and had an extremely rough childhood alone, hence why he tries to be optimistic and bring the others up. Shit like that makes the characters feel real, to me at least.
@@MrFusion Definitely brings them to life for everyone. They showed us they still got it. GTA V's story was never good to me & some online missions seem so cheesy like it's a comedy. GTA 6 has to be better. I believe it will be.
I’ve learned in my own personal experience that most leaders have Dutch van der Linde qualities….today they have one vision tomorrow they might have another…it’s better we all lead ourselves and not follow any crowd
Finished my 2nd playthrough a few months ago, I’m now burning with the need to play this masterpiece again, even though i have a lot of other unplayed games
Did you have neutral honor by any chance? Depending on what ending you choose, going with John'll increase you towards just exactly high honor while going for the money shall take Arthur's honor level just below neutral triggering the low honor outcome. Before the choice I believe Arthur's thoughts and expressions are all low honor.
It’s hard to tell what kind of man Dutch is. At first he seems honorable, only stealing from the rich, helping those in need, rescuing and avenging members of the gang. But then he starts causing chaos, abandoning members, and killing folk out of spite. The very things he told his gang not to do. And all of this happened because he started listening to Micah. That what I can’t wrap my head around. I get Hosea died and Dutch probably had some brain damage but to listen to Micah and not Arthur is insane. I get that Dutch saw promise in Micah and just wanted him and Arthur to get along but he definitely didn’t trust him with his life. He said it himself. But suddenly he starts listening to Micah and ignores Arthur like he isn’t even there. I get that he knew Arthur was dying but Arthur was with Dutch from the beginning. He was his right hand man. Did Dutch just gave up on Arthur? Did Micah turn Dutch into this or is this Dutch’s true colors?
Dutch being dutch had an image, despite his nature he became the very thing he tried to not be. With his crew being taken down and his own insanity creeping closer cause what he wanted was ceasing to be he latched on to that which became his kryptonite. His pride, his arrogance and Micah was to him the only person who "gets it" so it all falls down. Also Micah wasn't the only traitor, it was Abigail too.
I think Dutch was a bad man who tried to do good things. Not to say he was pure evil prior to losing his mind, but he wanted to earn the praise and affection for others along with wielding power, and he did the things to get there that would get people to listen. He very easily could've been just like Colm, yet he created this image that he is the messiah to the gang, and that he will save them from this modern world. I do think he did have good intentions, but he cracked under stress due to his bounty and the gang losing faith in him, and he became a survivor only out for himself. Anyone who opposes him is not worth his time and is a traitor to him. Again, I don't think he was evil, just a bad man who tried to do the right thing until it no longer benefited him. Sidenote, I do find it interesting how Dutch acts like he is a god despite his actions, and Arthur, who is actually a good person, actively states that he himself is a bad man. Just something to think about I guess.
@@MrFusion jack was with tilly when they hid, hosea tells Abby during chapter 2 to take jack and run first chance she gets. She somehow gets involved with the pinkertons but it's the only thing that connects the dots behind the scenes
I would of never known this cause I NEVER play Arthur bad. Cause Arthur ain't a bad boah He treats he's horses riiiight He treats he's family with respect And he always hunts for legendary satchel materials
I really wish Arthur lived just so he and Sadie could step back from the life long enough to realize how good they were together. Out of everybody in the Van der Linde gang who survived, Arthur Morgan deserved a happy ending.
It's was mainly because of what Micah was doing to dutch and the fear of the lawmen and his people not believing in him anymore he really wasn't a horrible person in the start he was good at first until Micah and the pinkertons really started messing about it's sad what happened
I always played as high honour and I honestly just thought low honour affected a few cutscenes at the end of the game. The fact it affects the in-mission dialogue is amazing.
That's the whole truth about how toxic Dutch really was. Dutch was no better than Micah. They both were dark triad personality types. Micah Bell was the Machiavellian. Dutch was a grandstanding narcissistic abuser, which actually made him more evil. People tend to overlook the fact that Dutch murdered an innocent woman in cold blood during the gang's escape from Blackwater. Then he murdered another innocent woman in RD1.
Wow. Low honor Arthur only wants to save Abigail so he can get to the money. Low honor Arthur is no different from Dutch and Micah. That’s why I always play high honor Arthur
I mean thats clearly not true considering one of the first things he says in this clip is, "We don't leave people behind." Yeah, he's still thinking about the money but its clearly not his only motivator, or else why wouldn't he just keep running with Dutch and Micah?
If you lose the money, what was it all for? The deaths of the gang, and the pain they caused, and are in. Could give Abigail and the others an actually decent life, if they had the money. One where they didn't need to rob and trick people anymore. John might still be alive if that happened.
It's weird that it's a low honor thing. It seems like a story you'd tell when you have high honor because it talks about being a better person and not robbing the poor
@gxn well yeah but it's talking about a story from his passed as in before, you the player choose his story so idk just feels more like a story for either good or bad, just weird it's triggered with low honor.
Rdr2 story pulled u in so many directions I remember starting I didn’t like Arthur by the end I wanted Arthur to get out and be free he became a character like John
Idk where my Arthur was in the honor system anymore, I didn't get this story nor did Micah kill my Arthur he got a sunset but instead of seeing a deer he saw a wolf. Was there a medium karma ending or something
Just my opinion but in bad honor, Chapter 6 especially, Arthur is no better than Dutch or Micah he just wants his side of the money that Dutch has hidden away and then he'll just run off and is just as concerned about his own survival (probably even more than John's) and says to John, Sadie and others that loyalty to anyone doesn't matter and says to Charles when their going to save Eagle Flies from Fort Wallace one of the only reasons he's still with Dutch is for the cash. That's why I'm all for high honor. If Arthur just had a cold attitude and more of a survival instinct rather than just money that he can't even use properly i would've considered doing another low honor playthrough, he admits his dislike for Dutch in Low Honor which I suppose he had every right for as Dutch in late Chapter 4 through to the end of Chapter 6 was only interested in escaping to the promised land and would be willing to sacrifice anyone to do so and forgot all the people who fell like they never even went out. If Arthur wanted the money in Bad Honor just so he could destroy it that would've also have made Chapter 6 Bad Honor more playable as he wouldn't be taking the money for greed, and he can take revenge now since none of Dutch's lessons matter to him at this point anymore and if he destroyed the money in bad honor it would've been pure satisfaction as Micah, Dutch and his cronies all stabbed him in the back after twenty years of loyalty that went up in flames...
And how is that bad? Arthur put in the most work for the gang and has ridden with them the longest so Arthur definitely deserved his cut of the money. In fact Dutch was evil because he was withholding it from everyone basically forcing them to stay because if they left they would be dirt poor and wanted by the law. Arthur and John don’t want to be in the gang anymore but they don’t want it to be for nothing which is why Arthur has John tell Abigail to find where the money is hidden so they can take what they earned and live a more peaceful life. With their share of the money, John could’ve afforded land much sooner and settled down much sooner and Arthur would’ve gone to California where he may have survived a little longer but at least comfortably and in peace. Everyone seems to be confused by what the money actually represents and they think helping everyone else and letting Arthur succumb to his illness is somehow better than him claiming what’s rightfully his
@@josephstalin2606 he just seems more obsessed with it than actually helping John out, he does definitely deserve his cut more than others though especially how he is probably the only gunman in the gang who is true to his promises to the gang rather than just sitting around all day like Bill and Sean, I think I might've just thought he was more obsessed with it more than anything else in Chapter 6 rather than helping John escape as it was mostly what he kept talking about. His survival instinct I completely understand in bad honor as he also admits that he's not going to die because of Dutch's philosophy that doesn't mean much, because that's practically dying for nothing.
@@j7jov32 I can see how he may be “obsessed” with it assuming you choose to go for the money at the end. Idk I just prefer low honor Arthur but I always help John at the end, even if Arthur still dies by Micah it also justifies John wanting revenge much more than knowing he died peacefully and John is getting revenge for basically no reason other than self pride. But before all that in the mission where you blow up the bridge Arthur tells John to tell Abigail to make sure she knows where the money is regardless of honor which shows that even high honor Arthur wanted the money at some point as well
Low honor Arthur is very much a hypocrite. He even states that in the last ride with John just before the train robbery that he is more concerned with getting the money and trying to get out west to get rid of his cough. After playing so many high honor Playthroughs it just feels so wrong hearing and seeing low honor Arthur close his life
But destroying the money for revenge wouldn't make sense. Both high and low honour Arthur believe revenge is a fools game and repeatedly reiterate that. And this isn't just a part of the character, its quite possibly the most essential part of the story. Without Dutch going for revenge on bronte and Cornwall, its possible the gang would have lasted longer and ended differently. Without John going for revenge for Arthur's death, Ross would never have tracked him down. So if Arthur would destroy the money for revenge, it would literally ruin basically his whole character as well as the story.
I wish he would not just have said that with low honor. It's nothing but the truth about who Dutch truly is, high or low honor Arthur, doesn't matter to me in this case
I never understood why Arthur cared so much about money after he learns he's going to die of TB. He keeps telling John take care of himself and his family and to leave while they still can, and when Arthur is on the verge of dying and on the run in the end you get the option to... go back... for the money? While John says he's going to his family.
I think it was the principle of the matter. The fact that Dutch has been keeping this from them and has had the money the entire time. I dont think Arthur wants it for himself, he wants it for the others. He wants Dutch to stop being selfish. I don't think Arthur expects to die when he goes back for the money, he simply wanted to have it in hand for John, Abigail and the rest. He wanted to get the money and meet back up with the others. At least, that was what I interpreted from it.
5 years next year. A while off til then, but damn I remember askin for this game. First RD game I played. I had known about the first because my dad played it. RD2 is a top 2 game all-time personally to me, right next to Skyrim.
I've tried four different times to get a low honor playthrough. I just can't do it! Like the closest I ever get is just below the middle. And that is exclusively via robbing npcs on the roads. I want to do a low run for stuff like this!
he didnt need to form a relationship with sadie, they had no romantic chemistry. they were more like good frieneds who could trust eachother. sadie is a woman who still loves her husband and avenges his death, even arthur is still hung up with mary. if anyone could get with arthur itd probs be charlotte imo
I know you gotta sell your content to make people click on it but there is no "secret story" when it comes to low honor/high honor dialogue. Its just dialogue based on where your honor meter is at. No secret. If your honor is low, you will hear this story 100% of the time, if you honor is high you will hear a different story 100% of the time.
Did my first play threw recently favorite game off all time. I'm done with the story but I don't know if I have it in me to finish all the side stuff with no story to do like the hunting and treasure hunting and stuff. Thinking about going to rdr1 playing it on my series x as I heard it's 4k. What do yall think should I give it a go at completing it 100% with John or just go to rdr1 to finish the story? Help lol
Lol I have Covid while watching this right now and I had Covid when I played it earlier this year. BTW, having Covid while your playable character has terminal TB is NOT fun. All his coughing seemed to make my coughing worse.
Low Arthur is so painfully shortsighted. What's a terminally ill man need with money? High Arthur at least makes his last days count for something that actually matters, but that awful greed is all Low Arthur knows.
12 FACTS you guaranteed DONT know about these characters in RDR2: ruclips.net/video/l_lRKPdID1M/видео.html
"we might be able to get the muneh before they do!" Proceeds to cough like a man with an hour left to live.
Lmfao
Thanks, we didn't watch the video or anything...
@@9b7 I doubt it. Being low honor Arthur, hes likely just thinking about the money for himself and others more than saving John.
@@9b7 Exactly.
The way he's saying it, feels like he wants to make sure Dutch and Micah see their deception was for nothing, just like all the lives lost over it up to that point. At least, that's what I'm getting from it.
"Low" Arthur's voice seems so much more menacing than I remember "High" Arthur's as being. It would really change the experience of the game to listen to a more threatening growl throughout it. I would go back and replay at low honour to make more comparisons, but I never can manage to stay low :P
Amazing dedication to the craft by Roger Clark. The subtle differences that we can sense as a player really makes this game way more amazing.
I highly suggest playing low honor just to experience a more realistic Arthur. He doesn’t care that he’s dying and wants better for everyone including himself where as high honor is more selfless. Also the way he talks about his dead son is slightly different and it seems like low honor Arthur never got over his death where high honor learned to move on from it
@@BrahmaDBA Tbh im pretty sure they change the microphone Lol when he talks to John on the mountain with Low honor you can tell
A killing spree at Butcher Creek well solve your honor problem. I like to set it off by killing and skinning one of their much loved goats.
Same. I almost could never bring myself to completing the story in low honor but now I really like doing it
It seems like low honor Arthur is more in denial about his sickness. Notice how he's focused on the money here, even though he'll never have the time to use it, which is what high honor Arthur realizes. The details in this game are immaculate. 10/10
it was more for arthur to get one on dutch and micah, he knew that he won't have time to use it.
He is. He even tells John he's going somewhere dry to get rid of his cough.
I just beat a high honor playthrough after doing low honor the first time. In high honor, he said he knows it's bad (his disease) and that he wanted to do the right things with the time he had left. Passing out in public multiple times and coughing blood was sign enough. At the end of rdr2, he also told John we're both not making it out of this. He said that before Micah ambushed him. I think Arthur just accepted that he was dying so his life didn't matter and nothing did except for saving John and his family.
@@tylerdemello461 i dont know what i had but my playthrough he told john there not both making it out of this but i had this conversation as well. I didnt really do high or low honor though i just played the game how i saw fit think i may have fluctuated
True
Honestly Low Honor Arthur is very scary. High honor is badass too but not as scary as someone with no Honor
Imagine a dude like Charles or Arthur with no qualms about morality. They would be worse than Colm or Micah. High Honor Arthur is like Blondie from Dollar Trilogy, Low Honor Arthur would be like Angel Eyes from TGTBTU
low Honor player exacly is scary
low honor players probably do all sorts of messed up stuff
Yea I jus finished the game for first time(long story why quit games for years) but I didn’t know that there was 4 different endings so my 1st play through to finish was 2 weeks ago, I had low honor & Micha shot me in the head, so now I want to do high honor, then middle honor & so fourth but to answer your comment, yes we do very weird/bad shit lol
@@theonlybigsmoke because it's a fucking game
I like how they focused on low honour Arthur and how he still cared about the money. However High honour doesn’t even consider it
did you notice when arthur is in low honor when he is mentioning the names of all gang members that died he mentions johns name last as it's who died recently and that's john (well he didn't die but you get my point) but if arthur is high honor he will mention johns name first. Just a little detail I noticed because I recently finished the game but with high honor and he mentioned johns name first.
I've never done a low honor playthrough so this observation is based on some clips I've seen, including this one. To me it seems like high honor Arthur winds up more tired, accepting his fate as his eyes open to what's going on and deciding to save those he can from the hell Dutch is leading them towards. Whereas low honor Arthur seems much more pissed off, cursing his fate and Dutch/Micah along with it, and determined to save those he can no matter how many bodies it takes.
Why do so many people seemingly not understand Dutch's character?
It wasn't the fact he was evil all along, or the trolley crash, it wasn't Micah, or Colm or the Pinkertons or even Hoseas death that turned him into the man he becomes near the end of his story.
Dutch literally says why he became what he did at the end of RD-redemption 1 with his dialogue to john.
Throughout the story he is trying to fight "change" in and of itself which is personified by the civilization of the west, because he can't adapt to it, and it's not in his "nature" to give in to change and no longer fight it.
There are actually moments in the story where he speaks with Arthur and you can tell he is almost close to realizing the hopelessness of fighting civilization, and seemingly wants to accept what Arthur is saying about how times have changed and that "folks like us ain't needed no more" But every time Dutch sadly falls to his own nature.
A good example of this internal struggle and really the last time you can see it is during the opening cutscene where you "pay a social call" to Cornwall.
Arthur legitimately gets through to dutch for a few seconds, before Micah interjects about leaving the women and children behind, which sparks Dutch's "robin hood complex" to kick back in and ignore what Arthur was saying, in favour of keeping to his nature of "fighting the good fight" as it were.
I wish more people saw just how complex and honestly relatable Dutch's character is, instead of generalizing it or falling for the same black and white narratives that plague most creative works.
Because it's honestly insulting to the writers and to Benjamin's amazing performance to do so.
TL;DR: Did Dutch not teach you to read boah? Get back up there and read before you get lumbago of the eyes.
Edit; so this comment got a lot more attention than i thought it would.
I wanted to add, that at the end of the day, this is just my own opinion, and if you disagree that's fine because all forms of art are subjective in even the slightest of ways. My intent wasn't to try and push my opinion as the only correct one, but to bring up an aspect of Dutch's character that i seldom see discussed, and an aspect i believe to be the most important to his character.
Cheers.
Rd1 isn't on PC tho so alot of us havent played that only rd2
@@sly_panther1136 correct
rightfully said
I wholeheartedly agree with you so much. I really hate this entire narrative so many people seem to believe that Dutch was always just an evil egomaniac who only cared about himself, when it makes so much more sense, and makes for a much more compelling story, for Dutch to be a naíve idealist who fails to adapt and loses his way because of it.
Yeah Dutch is one of the greatest characters ever created
My first playthrough was low honor ( I missed the skiable mission ) I was so sad at the end. Thankfully on my 4th playthrough I go an ending I was pleased with Arthur really did make peace with himself and just wanted his family to get out alive. I give the game a 10/10
Love seeing the love spread
Which mission is that?
It's pretty amazing that they even changed Arthur's motivations depending on his honor.
So many years later and new dialogue still being discovered? Best game ever, can't imagine how gta 6 will be
I like to play as Punisher Morgan, punishing all evil npc no matter what and i always try to keep it high honor but i like the tone on low honor Arthur
"If you play with low honor, you get different dialog.'
Me a good boa: I'll ignore that.
This is so amazing I got this on my very first play through cause I was horrible honor arthur, Sadie’s also my favorite character, her character development was something unmatched by any other character in the game, from a ranch hand up in the snow with her husband to a gunslinging outlaw? Some say she already was, crops don’t grow in snow and cattle won’t survive why was there ranch up there ?
True, never thought of that...
@@RDBTheRedDeath it’s worth investigating ! Not many people have made videos on it.
It isn't winter 100% of the time lol. The Ranch is in a mountain valley that is likely inspired by the Colorado Rockies. You say that like the Adler ranch is in the arctic lol.
@@BasePuma4007 the Adler ranch is covered by snow the entire campaign and not once did we see any crops or livestock dead or anywhere near her farm in that storm. Why? Her farm is always covered in snow it’s on the snow part of the map lol
@@slickadooie My god. Yes, the map depicts a certain time of thr year - late spring. Which is a time where you can expect some freak snow storms in higher attitude areas like the Colorado Rockies. This is foolish overthinking. The ranch literally has a barn for horses and cattle, and a fenced in area for cattle. You are not using your brain.
I cannot believe Dutch so he rather go with Micah who's been with him 6 months didn't go with Arthur who's been with him for 6 years or more not unbelievable Arthur had Dutch's back way more than Micah even though Dutch and John argued a lot he should know that John would never tell on him it was the rat Micah Dutch knows it but he's just too blind to see it blind with money gold and loyalty that Dutch never had for Arthur in chapter 6
20 years
@@AnimaNera1919 that's it I just haven't been playing in quite a while thank you
20 years
20 years
i got an headache reading this
Low honor Arthur is the tired angry beast who got betrayed and wants revenge. High honor feels like he is a man who has realized the monster he has become and who is trying to make things right
When he talks about the MUNEH his voice, damn, Roger Clark did such a good job portraying two different mindsets
I played this game the first time with high honor and tried to play the game with low honor but once Arthur visits the doctor I started farming good honor after that
Nothing beats a Low Honor Arthur, choosing to save John at the end over the money. That kind of face turn is always memorable.
Honestly going after the money doesn’t make any sense since arthur is about to die
@@Paulinho_66" revenge isn't a luxury we can afford". Unfortunately he if goes for revenge his body just couldn't afford it.
@@RealTeX1 exactly. It doesn't make sense why go after revenge? ok, he was about to die, but saving john was the priority. But i like to think that when arthur chooses to let john go he was actually thinking that going back would draw the attention from the pinkertons so john could escape. But going back for the money.. really? why? did he thought he could take the money and bring back to sadie/john? Probably that was the idea too, i don't know
@@Paulinho_66 honestly low honor Arthur is tryna ruin Dutch one time but we'll.
@@RealTeX1 but even low arthur says revenge is a luxury we can’t afford. I don’t know that money ending seems like bad writing
I love how much angrier he sounds.
That's kinda proof that Dutch wasn't always the way he is in the game. It's interesting to think what might've led to him being corrupted
I might just found as well that if arthur has high honour, he will John, hosea, mac, davey, jenny, Sean, lenny
But with low honour
He will say hosea, mac, davey, jenny, Sean, lenny and now john
Hmm pretty interesting. Leads room for a lot to theorize on
I’m curious as to why
@@clongshanks5206 I just posted a comment regarding that moment. It's simple, low honor arthur mentiones johns name last as he's just another collateral damage that happened recently however high honor arthur will mention his name first because he cares for john.
I got this story on high honor a bunch of times. It’s not just low honor lol.
Yes it is no you didn't
I included both. You can’t hear this on high honor
@@johnmarston1419 Hello, son
@@dutchvanderlinde44 was it worth it Dutch?
@@RDBTheRedDeath Well I got it many times
I remember playing the first half with low honor. I did do nice things and help a few characters here and there but I still retained that low honor status.
Until TB hit and that's when things changed.
Hell yea tb changed a mf
Me too, it just made more sense for Arthur.
Low Honor Arthur just sounds so much more bad ass
Sometimes the morality gets funny when you have low honour. Like, he's saying "Dutch said robbing a poor person was beneath us, now he doesn't care who dies!" the next second "Abigail knows where the money is, we can't let her die!" lol, like the first line was an honour neutral line and the second one was a low honour line or something
This game is 4 years old, and I am only just now figuring out about this line of dialogue? I wonder how much more there is to this game that I still haven't uncovered.
I actually have more set to release. That I haven’t found on RUclips or seen myself eitherz
Telling that story seems like it would fit High Honour Arthur too, since he's just putting into light exactly how much Dutch seems to have changed, ironically, in his life of fighting against change.
It's not like High Honour Arthur didn't rob the house of that poor man. The intent of the game is to show Arthur changing. Even if you play him as a saint, he's only like that in the few months the game takes place. As much as many in Dutch's gang are not nearly as bad morally speaking as many others, they're still, as Arthur himself puts it, "Bad men, but... we ain't them." And like he says at the start of chapter 2 while going into Valentine, "If you ladies hadn't been here, I probably woulda robbed him" about the guy whose horse ran away.
This is one of my favorite interactions in the game
I knew there qas different dialogue for low honor! I questioned myself because I've never beaten it High Honor, but this scene & the one where John & Arthur are blowing up the tracks. When John asks about loyalty, Arthur seems to ignore it kind of, but with low honor, he says "Loyalty? Loyalty don't mean nothing no more." Or something along those lines. I love GOW, I really do, but there is no way in hell this shouldn't have won Game of Year 2018. They went above & beyond for this. If GTA 6 has the dark undertones this game has, it will, & this is not an opinion, be the best game ever created. Technically speaking.
High honor Arthur says John has been loyal I think
high honor Arthur replies "Be loyal to what matters"
If GTA 6 is more in-line with RDR2 and GTA 4 in terms of tone, then holy fuck the game will be good. Not that I want 6 to be absolutely miserable, but that I want it to feel like it's serious this time. Sure being a criminal is fun and all, but they're bad people, which 4 and RDR2 demonstrate well. That's also not to say 5's story was bad, as there is quite a lot of depth to the main three and a few other like Lamar, but that's it. The cast is pretty static in terms of character development, but in 2 the gang actually has character. Sure some die sooner than others, but there's a lot you can learn to understand them better and understand their motives. Like Uncle for example, he may seem like the goofy clown to keep the camp entertained, but underneath that performance is someone who suffered for years and had an extremely rough childhood alone, hence why he tries to be optimistic and bring the others up. Shit like that makes the characters feel real, to me at least.
@@yourdailytoilet5962 Yes, yes, this one. Thank you. Such a good detail.
@@MrFusion Definitely brings them to life for everyone. They showed us they still got it. GTA V's story was never good to me & some online missions seem so cheesy like it's a comedy. GTA 6 has to be better. I believe it will be.
You know, I bet they could make an RDR3 about Sadie and it would be another money printer.
I’ve learned in my own personal experience that most leaders have Dutch van der Linde qualities….today they have one vision tomorrow they might have another…it’s better we all lead ourselves and not follow any crowd
Low honor, high honor it doesn't matter, the dude ends up becoming a walking lead mine...
Finished my 2nd playthrough a few months ago, I’m now burning with the need to play this masterpiece again, even though i have a lot of other unplayed games
I got this with high honor too.
i didn't, strange
I did got this to.
No the very first convo is only for low honor
Did you have neutral honor by any chance? Depending on what ending you choose, going with John'll increase you towards just exactly high honor while going for the money shall take Arthur's honor level just below neutral triggering the low honor outcome. Before the choice I believe Arthur's thoughts and expressions are all low honor.
Impossible!
The amount of shit they put in this game that most of us wont ever see just to give it life is always amazing to me
It’s hard to tell what kind of man Dutch is. At first he seems honorable, only stealing from the rich, helping those in need, rescuing and avenging members of the gang. But then he starts causing chaos, abandoning members, and killing folk out of spite. The very things he told his gang not to do. And all of this happened because he started listening to Micah.
That what I can’t wrap my head around. I get Hosea died and Dutch probably had some brain damage but to listen to Micah and not Arthur is insane.
I get that Dutch saw promise in Micah and just wanted him and Arthur to get along but he definitely didn’t trust him with his life. He said it himself. But suddenly he starts listening to Micah and ignores Arthur like he isn’t even there. I get that he knew Arthur was dying but Arthur was with Dutch from the beginning. He was his right hand man.
Did Dutch just gave up on Arthur? Did Micah turn Dutch into this or is this Dutch’s true colors?
Dutch being dutch had an image, despite his nature he became the very thing he tried to not be. With his crew being taken down and his own insanity creeping closer cause what he wanted was ceasing to be he latched on to that which became his kryptonite. His pride, his arrogance and Micah was to him the only person who "gets it" so it all falls down. Also Micah wasn't the only traitor, it was Abigail too.
@@johanndukeofwayen4159 Abigail being a traitor doesn't make sense to me. Why would the Pinkertons "rescue" her yet not take Jack?
I think Dutch was a bad man who tried to do good things. Not to say he was pure evil prior to losing his mind, but he wanted to earn the praise and affection for others along with wielding power, and he did the things to get there that would get people to listen. He very easily could've been just like Colm, yet he created this image that he is the messiah to the gang, and that he will save them from this modern world. I do think he did have good intentions, but he cracked under stress due to his bounty and the gang losing faith in him, and he became a survivor only out for himself. Anyone who opposes him is not worth his time and is a traitor to him. Again, I don't think he was evil, just a bad man who tried to do the right thing until it no longer benefited him. Sidenote, I do find it interesting how Dutch acts like he is a god despite his actions, and Arthur, who is actually a good person, actively states that he himself is a bad man. Just something to think about I guess.
@@MrFusion jack was with tilly when they hid, hosea tells Abby during chapter 2 to take jack and run first chance she gets. She somehow gets involved with the pinkertons but it's the only thing that connects the dots behind the scenes
Nobody says folk 🤦
I would of never known this cause I NEVER play Arthur bad.
Cause Arthur ain't a bad boah
He treats he's horses riiiight
He treats he's family with respect
And he always hunts for legendary satchel materials
He's not a good man, not usually.
Dutch thought that Arthur turned against him, so Arthur made that belief real
This relationship between them is perfect as is
I really wish Arthur lived just so he and Sadie could step back from the life long enough to realize how good they were together. Out of everybody in the Van der Linde gang who survived, Arthur Morgan deserved a happy ending.
I'm always at high honor, I cant be evil with Arthur. Can't even imagine it xD
It's was mainly because of what Micah was doing to dutch and the fear of the lawmen and his people not believing in him anymore he really wasn't a horrible person in the start he was good at first until Micah and the pinkertons really started messing about it's sad what happened
The amount of times i replayed this mission to kick micah's ass, i know everything about this mission
I always played as high honour and I honestly just thought low honour affected a few cutscenes at the end of the game. The fact it affects the in-mission dialogue is amazing.
"Now!-".
"CAREFULL!!!".
That's the whole truth about how toxic Dutch really was. Dutch was no better than Micah. They both were dark triad personality types. Micah Bell was the Machiavellian. Dutch was a grandstanding narcissistic abuser, which actually made him more evil. People tend to overlook the fact that Dutch murdered an innocent woman in cold blood during the gang's escape from Blackwater. Then he murdered another innocent woman in RD1.
Damn shame we don't have Sadie DLC
Karen Duffy has let the chat
Lol
Wow. Low honor Arthur only wants to save Abigail so he can get to the money. Low honor Arthur is no different from Dutch and Micah. That’s why I always play high honor Arthur
I mean thats clearly not true considering one of the first things he says in this clip is, "We don't leave people behind."
Yeah, he's still thinking about the money but its clearly not his only motivator, or else why wouldn't he just keep running with Dutch and Micah?
If you lose the money, what was it all for? The deaths of the gang, and the pain they caused, and are in.
Could give Abigail and the others an actually decent life, if they had the money. One where they didn't need to rob and trick people anymore.
John might still be alive if that happened.
“High” honor Arthur is still a scum bag POS
@@HauntingSpectre
John got killed because he avenged Arthur
Had he not done that they wouldn't have tracked him down
What a child. How old are you
RIP Kieran not getting mentioned 😔
Notice Sadie is saying that all she needs is her and Arther for the money. And Arther is a sick man.
Low Honor Arthur is one mean cuss.
Can't wait to play the story for the third time
It's weird that it's a low honor thing. It seems like a story you'd tell when you have high honor because it talks about being a better person and not robbing the poor
Maybe it’s a low honor thing because high honor Arthur wouldn’t rob a man that poor?
@gxn well yeah but it's talking about a story from his passed as in before, you the player choose his story so idk just feels more like a story for either good or bad, just weird it's triggered with low honor.
Low honor Arthur even seems to sound different
Rdr2 story pulled u in so many directions I remember starting I didn’t like Arthur by the end I wanted Arthur to get out and be free he became a character like John
Idk where my Arthur was in the honor system anymore, I didn't get this story nor did Micah kill my Arthur he got a sunset but instead of seeing a deer he saw a wolf. Was there a medium karma ending or something
was waiting for the secret story
It’s literally there
Ikr lol
I wish you could ask camp members to go riding with you like in gta 5 with hanging out and then you can learn stuff maybe in rdr3 ig
Low honor Arthur is based af
Aint no way Im going to give Micah the Satisfaction of killing Arthur
Sure, just get your honor up before the last mission. There.
Just my opinion but in bad honor, Chapter 6 especially, Arthur is no better than Dutch or Micah he just wants his side of the money that Dutch has hidden away and then he'll just run off and is just as concerned about his own survival (probably even more than John's) and says to John, Sadie and others that loyalty to anyone doesn't matter and says to Charles when their going to save Eagle Flies from Fort Wallace one of the only reasons he's still with Dutch is for the cash. That's why I'm all for high honor. If Arthur just had a cold attitude and more of a survival instinct rather than just money that he can't even use properly i would've considered doing another low honor playthrough, he admits his dislike for Dutch in Low Honor which I suppose he had every right for as Dutch in late Chapter 4 through to the end of Chapter 6 was only interested in escaping to the promised land and would be willing to sacrifice anyone to do so and forgot all the people who fell like they never even went out. If Arthur wanted the money in Bad Honor just so he could destroy it that would've also have made Chapter 6 Bad Honor more playable as he wouldn't be taking the money for greed, and he can take revenge now since none of Dutch's lessons matter to him at this point anymore and if he destroyed the money in bad honor it would've been pure satisfaction as Micah, Dutch and his cronies all stabbed him in the back after twenty years of loyalty that went up in flames...
And how is that bad? Arthur put in the most work for the gang and has ridden with them the longest so Arthur definitely deserved his cut of the money. In fact Dutch was evil because he was withholding it from everyone basically forcing them to stay because if they left they would be dirt poor and wanted by the law. Arthur and John don’t want to be in the gang anymore but they don’t want it to be for nothing which is why Arthur has John tell Abigail to find where the money is hidden so they can take what they earned and live a more peaceful life. With their share of the money, John could’ve afforded land much sooner and settled down much sooner and Arthur would’ve gone to California where he may have survived a little longer but at least comfortably and in peace. Everyone seems to be confused by what the money actually represents and they think helping everyone else and letting Arthur succumb to his illness is somehow better than him claiming what’s rightfully his
@@josephstalin2606 he just seems more obsessed with it than actually helping John out, he does definitely deserve his cut more than others though especially how he is probably the only gunman in the gang who is true to his promises to the gang rather than just sitting around all day like Bill and Sean, I think I might've just thought he was more obsessed with it more than anything else in Chapter 6 rather than helping John escape as it was mostly what he kept talking about. His survival instinct I completely understand in bad honor as he also admits that he's not going to die because of Dutch's philosophy that doesn't mean much, because that's practically dying for nothing.
@@j7jov32 I can see how he may be “obsessed” with it assuming you choose to go for the money at the end. Idk I just prefer low honor Arthur but I always help John at the end, even if Arthur still dies by Micah it also justifies John wanting revenge much more than knowing he died peacefully and John is getting revenge for basically no reason other than self pride. But before all that in the mission where you blow up the bridge Arthur tells John to tell Abigail to make sure she knows where the money is regardless of honor which shows that even high honor Arthur wanted the money at some point as well
Low honor Arthur is very much a hypocrite. He even states that in the last ride with John just before the train robbery that he is more concerned with getting the money and trying to get out west to get rid of his cough. After playing so many high honor Playthroughs it just feels so wrong hearing and seeing low honor Arthur close his life
But destroying the money for revenge wouldn't make sense. Both high and low honour Arthur believe revenge is a fools game and repeatedly reiterate that. And this isn't just a part of the character, its quite possibly the most essential part of the story.
Without Dutch going for revenge on bronte and Cornwall, its possible the gang would have lasted longer and ended differently.
Without John going for revenge for Arthur's death, Ross would never have tracked him down.
So if Arthur would destroy the money for revenge, it would literally ruin basically his whole character as well as the story.
One of the greatest games I ever played such a good story
I wish he would not just have said that with low honor. It's nothing but the truth about who Dutch truly is, high or low honor Arthur, doesn't matter to me in this case
I never understood why Arthur cared so much about money after he learns he's going to die of TB. He keeps telling John take care of himself and his family and to leave while they still can, and when Arthur is on the verge of dying and on the run in the end you get the option to... go back... for the money? While John says he's going to his family.
I think it was the principle of the matter. The fact that Dutch has been keeping this from them and has had the money the entire time. I dont think Arthur wants it for himself, he wants it for the others. He wants Dutch to stop being selfish. I don't think Arthur expects to die when he goes back for the money, he simply wanted to have it in hand for John, Abigail and the rest. He wanted to get the money and meet back up with the others. At least, that was what I interpreted from it.
He expected to survive and share the money with John's family
Sad. Dutch was a good man back in the day, But Micah turned him
No Colm did, Micha just spotted an opportunity.
Nah, he turned himself.
I was so low honor// heartless that when Sadie asked me for help taking down the O’driscoll’s I said No.
I said FU Sadie. I got my own problems! 💔
5 years next year. A while off til then, but damn I remember askin for this game. First RD game I played. I had known about the first because my dad played it. RD2 is a top 2 game all-time personally to me, right next to Skyrim.
Idk why but just cannot do a low honor play through something within me won’t allow it 💀😂😂😂
idk how ya go thru the game being high honor without even trying 😭
im sure even Roger clark (arthur's voice actor) disgusted while said this conversation low honor is mid
What’s the soundtrack here please??
Same dialogue with high honour.
certain MrBossFtw would do a 13 min video about this
I've tried four different times to get a low honor playthrough. I just can't do it! Like the closest I ever get is just below the middle. And that is exclusively via robbing npcs on the roads. I want to do a low run for stuff like this!
Lol, you 14 or something?
Arthur on low honour was a cold hearted guy 😆🔥
Low honor is the real way to play the game.
I actually got this at high honor too
I know people don't want to hear this but RDR2 is Rockstar Game's swansong. it's ALL downhill from here.
I've been saying that since it came out it's only rockstar by name anymore
Saddie really spy on micah and dutch👍😅 from vegetable cutter graduate to wagon driver and spy bounty hunter..
Quite the prestige
when hosea died, dutch went off the rails
To infinity and beyond
Hose's death is so undeniably rushed and poorly written.....
@@wetube6513 what about Lenny? Lol his was done in like 5 seconds
@@BLACKout_TF2 Lenny was a side character and not that important
@@ChromeMan04 oof
I always wonder why didn't everyone in the group didn't catch TB, all of them should of
Arthur's tb was a systematic for most of the game
Because it's a game and the writers did a bad job....
It makes me sad knowing that Arthur would’ve probably formed a relationship with Sadie, has he not gotten sick.
no he Arthur would NOT. He would get with the widow Charlotte, WAY bigger boobs than that booger wolf troll Sadie
he didnt need to form a relationship with sadie, they had no romantic chemistry. they were more like good frieneds who could trust eachother. sadie is a woman who still loves her husband and avenges his death, even arthur is still hung up with mary. if anyone could get with arthur itd probs be charlotte imo
So what's the secret story? If it's the robbery then he says the same thing with high honor just with a different tone
i only did 1 playthrough with good honor, too much work lol
After just gently shoving someone with your horse cause your honor to deplete I just didn’t GAF no more
I know you gotta sell your content to make people click on it but there is no "secret story" when it comes to low honor/high honor dialogue. Its just dialogue based on where your honor meter is at. No secret. If your honor is low, you will hear this story 100% of the time, if you honor is high you will hear a different story 100% of the time.
Did my first play threw recently favorite game off all time. I'm done with the story but I don't know if I have it in me to finish all the side stuff with no story to do like the hunting and treasure hunting and stuff. Thinking about going to rdr1 playing it on my series x as I heard it's 4k. What do yall think should I give it a go at completing it 100% with John or just go to rdr1 to finish the story? Help lol
Play through, you illiterate.
Awesome video.
Thx :)
No problem.
Everyone seems surprised about low honor stuff. I played mostly low honor playthroughs so I was more surprised about the high honor stuff
Lore of If Arthur Has LOW HONOR With Sadie He Will Reveal A SECRET STORY About Dutch | Red Dead Redemption 2 momentum 100
no honor is the only way to go…he’s literally an outlaw.
Yes. Finally, someone who's not a fanboy.
Lol I have Covid while watching this right now and I had Covid when I played it earlier this year.
BTW, having Covid while your playable character has terminal TB is NOT fun. All his coughing seemed to make my coughing worse.
Lol I know what you mean.
mate pls tell what are the clothes on your outfit that's a nice outfit. I commented on one of the other videos but u didn't reply 😔
ruclips.net/video/nrecu-MKn-c/видео.html
@@RDBTheRedDeath 🐐
Nice hat man
It belonged to captain Monroe. When taking him to the train station just before his horse collapses you can grab it if you’re quick enough
It sucks that the only way to get the best ending for Arthur is by making the dishonorable decision of returning for the money.
How is this the best ending for arthur
He gets stabbed dies in a burning building where if you help john he gets his wish of watching the sunset and dying in peace
@@killikario He dies quicker.
That's not the best ending. However, playing with low honor IS the best. Just get your honor back up before the last mission.
I just can't play with a low honor Arthur. I had to use Jack for it in RDR1, just to 100% it
Low Arthur is so painfully shortsighted. What's a terminally ill man need with money? High Arthur at least makes his last days count for something that actually matters, but that awful greed is all Low Arthur knows.
He wanted it for john.........
Think it was to go to New Austin to try and live a little longer
I love rdr2 it's a beautiful game