It was weird. The beats were a little out there at times. He found his way tho. God knows the lyrics were there. And besides fuck it. Ppl knew who he was.
Hard agree.I first saw the video "End To End Burners" on Rap City when it first came out.I still remember thinking about El-P...."WTF is this rapper from BK who is nasty AF on the mic?".The people who understood him from day one truly know how dope and integral to Underground NYC Hip-hop.
I mean I was huuuge into Def Jux, El, Cage, Aes, Cannibal Ox, Camu, listened to all kinds of indie hip-hop from all over the place, MF Doom, Jedi Mind Tricks, Non-Phixion, Del, Kool Keith, Immortal Technique, Tech N9ne, listened to "alternative" or abstract avant-garde hip-hop like cLOUDDEAd/Anticon, Sage Francis, Prefuse 73, even nerd rap like Paul Barman, Frontalot, mc chris, but I ALSO listened to everything else, all the mainstays from NYC, the west coast, the south, midwest, whatever, Wu-Tang, Nas, 2Pac, Mobb Deep, Jay-Z, Eminem, Outkast, DMX, Bone Thugs, Jadakiss, the Clipse, T.I.. Like it didnt matter what it was bc I wasnt trying to be a gangster or a backpacker, I just liked the music, whoever was spitting, whoever had good beats or made good beats, whoever had a unique vibe or sound. I picked up Company Flow & El-P from the same compilation album that put me onto Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Pharaohe Monch and had an early Eminem track, like hip-hop was mostly just hip-hop at that point. And then at some point it wasnt anymore, even tho everyone I knew who listened to El-P and Aesop Rock also listened to Wu-Tang and Nas. One of the best things about RTJ coming around was bringing those worlds of like 'mainstream rap' and 'indie hip-hop' back into the same space and saying this is the same type of music. It is VERY telling to me how many of the 00s indie hip-hop nerds describe El dropping a bunch of entirely independent records that feature more mainstream, mostly black rappers rapping about black struggle as "selling out." It's more likely you were just never really down to begin with and only listened to "indie hip-hop" bc you felt like it was at a safe remove from the culture. It wasnt, it was never meant to be. That music wasnt made to make white college kids feel safe. It was made bc those artists were immersed in or influenced by the culture and put their own spin on it.
The bald dude sitting next to killer mike? The way he talked about definitive jux was just completely disingenuous and you could tell he had no idea what he was talking about. You could tell El-p was feeling disrespected
I met Company Flow in Santa Barbara in 1998 @ a vinyl spot called "Just Play Music", It was incredible! they rocked for like 20 people just huddled up in a record shop, 1 Speaker, 2 mics w #Dhalsim like extensions! They did "Krazy Kings'! Killed it. #HipHopLIVES -805-
Wow dude. same here. I tell people I stopped listening to the radio in the exact same year. 1997! and went all underground. Bobbito Garcia is a hero of mine. Lyricist lounge, Rawkus, Project Blowed, all of these scenes were a reaction to the same thing. Once the radio got taken over and stopped being about the musical art it was natural for them to emerge.
Thurman Merman You mean you didn't despise it when Vanilla Ice,Young MC,MC Hammer,Jesse James,Sir Mixalot were the mainstream representations of hip hop?
@@kevinscott59 first of all those guys didn't the foreign hip-hop at all going guys like that with the only thing left the radio got bad. Especially to new Yorkers. Also for me it was more about the whole industry being taken over by gangster wannabes in my opinion. Which is fine I even like a lot of gangster rap myself but I like a variety and when they totally took over the whole industry I was out of there.
@@kevinscott59 El-p got a line "And he sees how MCs Became contorted with their own lies And went from battle rap to gun talk Like we ain't notice the change, yeah right"
@@cooloutac Yeah.That shit is from "Smithereens." EL-P knows what's up. But this notion that mainstream rap radio ever promoted the most authentic representations of hip hop is a myth. College and public radio throughout the 90s did that.Commercial radio did not. Stretch and Bobbito were broadcast out of Columbia University since the late 80s.They were a counterpoint to commercial rap radio in nyc even then.
El-p always been prob top 5 most original producers in hip-hop you can tell his drums from a mile away shit when fantastic damage dropped I ain't gonna lie it took a minute getting used to cold vein was different but fantastic damage was its own style
Its silly in a way bc there was peeps like Camu, Lif, Can Ox, Murs, etc in Def Jux alone, not to mention there was Rawkus that had Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, Talib, Hell I'll even throw Co Flow bc Len and Juss were two black men WITH El-P and hey maybe bc I'm kind of newer to that whole indie rap scene and discovering some older shit but I feel like it was just dudes that were making music to be raw and dope. I never really got a racially motivated thing out of it that it was "just white boys rhymin off beat and being vultures" or whatever the hell. If you arent into the whole underground backpack shit thats cool but to just kind of dismiss that whole movement seems wild lol. Maybe im tripping.
It's so disingenuous and such a bad take from that bald guy. I don't care who tf he is, he was being mad disrespectful. Def Jux contributed so much to hip-hop he clearly has no clue what he is talking about.
"weird white boy off beatish"... spoken like a true amateur. Def jux was one of the best things to ever happen to hip-hop and completely revolutionized the game. El-p completely put this buffoon in his place lol
Yeah, I didn't know C Rayz Walz, Lif, Murs, Can Ox, etc. were weird white boys. Rosenberg is one of those annoying "white" people that are always sticking their noses in other people's business. Can't stand that guy.
Nah I don't buy this conversation. Paul Rosenberg just really doesn't get hip hop. The underground scene was a bunch of off beat white boys to him? No one ever compared hip hop culture to religion before? What? . Been a huge void since Bobbito left and now you have to find good rap on blogs or streaming sites for yourself. Cause dudes like Paul Rosenberg have no real ear for music. He's just another vulture and people like him are partly to blame for how much the industry has changed. Which arguably might have been for the better from a fan's perspective. And probably even for the indie artists.
cooloutac EL-P makes great points with respect to hardcore hip hop splintering along racial lines in the early 2000s in some regards. But I agree with your broader point totally. Rosenberg is an industry guy so he's completely tonedeaf to the Ultramag/PE/BDP/EPMD/Run DMN influences in EL-P's music.
@@kevinscott59 no idea what you are referring to. Do you mean to say mainstream hip hop? It hasn't changed very much. Commercial hip hop is not really about the art or music imo. nerd rap, gangsta rap, abstract whatever you want to label it, it was always mixed to me and I really only like NYC type sounding raps no matter where someone was from. I stopped listening to hip hop on the radio in 97. back in those days I was listening to bobbito and stretch, lyricist lounge and rawkus records. Nowadays I just search around myself on bandcamp and soundcloud and blog sites.
Couldn't agree more about Rosenburg being a vulture. I've always wondered who the fuck thought he was worthy/educated enough about hip hop culture to host a hip hop show. One of the biggest clowns I've ever seen
Some of it was offbeat white boy shit. More hipster poetry than hip hop. Although we all choose what kind of music we make or listen to. So it is foolish to throw a fit over your fans or peers not being as "real" as you. Peter is basically saying "I'm a white backpacker but I'm not like THOSE white backpackers."
Sometimes I really don’t get how Pete does this as a living. How do you NOT GET he’s like IN THE MIDDLE of a large point here, 1:58 like there was no sign he was about to be finished, and you trying to ask an entirely different conversation before he’s even SAID what it is people back then didn’t get, is proving his point about why you didn’t get it. You didn’t try lmao
It was weird, Phonte of little brother called it out, as it was happening, search “Three Things That Killed Hip Hop...By Phonte of Little Brother” Defjux along with Anticon became a haven for Off-beat, rhythmless, awkward, abstract beyond comprehension white-boy rap. Grunge and rock was dying so the needed a place to go(the fans). RJD2 was the best thing to come out of it. He was experimental while maintaining the rhythm that is essential to hip hop.
@@Niacin1 They made Boom Bap Dorky, Talib even talked about it on Math Hoffas podcast, and why he distanced himself from the underground "Backpack" rap scene wanting to make something more commercial with Kanye. all that died down and the fans moved on Eventually Sean Price (RIP) and Roc Marci had to bring it back to the streets and rejuvenate it. thank god. Pro Era held it down as well. I don't think the DefJux and adjacent scenes fully understood the Soul and Funk involved in that style. They didn't grow up with James Brown, Issac Hayes and the like. They grew up on Red Hot Chilli peppers and what not. I went to the jams, 9th used to come to south street in Philly and spin underground, he still spins on instagram. Kev Brown, Doom, AZ, Reks, Termonology, Slum Village, Rasco, Reks, murs, Dialated, People under the stairs, artifacts etc. nobody was checking for Defjux outside of El P and maybe Cannibal ox, it really wasnt part of the culture.
@@nightaox3954 What? The title says exactly what it is. It says that they're talking about what the NY underground hip hop scene was like back in the mid 90's to the mid 2000's. Where does it say that it's "old"? This was 4 years ago. That's not old.
@@nightaox3954 No it doesn't. It says EL-P is commenting about underground music from the mid 90's to mid 2000's. Mid 90's to mid 2000's is the topic of conversation, not when it's from.
Rosenberg is weird for thinking Def Jux was weird.
Def Jux kept NY rap alive because it hadn’t gotten boring til then
Exactly
It was weird. The beats were a little out there at times. He found his way tho. God knows the lyrics were there. And besides fuck it. Ppl knew who he was.
They weren’t commercial and it was avant- grade which today would be fine but back then if the hood didn’t play it then it was weird
Hard agree.I first saw the video "End To End Burners" on Rap City when it first came out.I still remember thinking about El-P...."WTF is this rapper from BK who is nasty AF on the mic?".The people who understood him from day one truly know how dope and integral to Underground NYC Hip-hop.
El is the most underrated American ARTIST of the past three decades.
True
Facts. Him and Tonedeff are the most underrated great artists of our time in parts because of their own brilliance and perfectionism.
Agreed.
Tech n9ne is one of them also lyrically and genre bending is crazy
EL-P is a legend
I mean I was huuuge into Def Jux, El, Cage, Aes, Cannibal Ox, Camu, listened to all kinds of indie hip-hop from all over the place, MF Doom, Jedi Mind Tricks, Non-Phixion, Del, Kool Keith, Immortal Technique, Tech N9ne, listened to "alternative" or abstract avant-garde hip-hop like cLOUDDEAd/Anticon, Sage Francis, Prefuse 73, even nerd rap like Paul Barman, Frontalot, mc chris, but I ALSO listened to everything else, all the mainstays from NYC, the west coast, the south, midwest, whatever, Wu-Tang, Nas, 2Pac, Mobb Deep, Jay-Z, Eminem, Outkast, DMX, Bone Thugs, Jadakiss, the Clipse, T.I.. Like it didnt matter what it was bc I wasnt trying to be a gangster or a backpacker, I just liked the music, whoever was spitting, whoever had good beats or made good beats, whoever had a unique vibe or sound.
I picked up Company Flow & El-P from the same compilation album that put me onto Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Pharaohe Monch and had an early Eminem track, like hip-hop was mostly just hip-hop at that point. And then at some point it wasnt anymore, even tho everyone I knew who listened to El-P and Aesop Rock also listened to Wu-Tang and Nas.
One of the best things about RTJ coming around was bringing those worlds of like 'mainstream rap' and 'indie hip-hop' back into the same space and saying this is the same type of music. It is VERY telling to me how many of the 00s indie hip-hop nerds describe El dropping a bunch of entirely independent records that feature more mainstream, mostly black rappers rapping about black struggle as "selling out." It's more likely you were just never really down to begin with and only listened to "indie hip-hop" bc you felt like it was at a safe remove from the culture. It wasnt, it was never meant to be. That music wasnt made to make white college kids feel safe. It was made bc those artists were immersed in or influenced by the culture and put their own spin on it.
You know your fucking shit.
A+ taste
Thanks for listing Tech on this he has so much beautiful music from lyrically beautiful and beautifully produced music
Rosenberg came off as so condescending towards El-P smh
Rosenberg a bitch, right up his alley
The bald dude sitting next to killer mike? The way he talked about definitive jux was just completely disingenuous and you could tell he had no idea what he was talking about. You could tell El-p was feeling disrespected
100% agree, but shout out to El-P for keeping his cool and respectfully rationalizing everything (also shouts out to Killer Mike for backing his boy)
He was being honest about how he and a lot of others felt about def jux
EL understood and pushed back where necessary
That’s one of the most legit and honest sermons on the era of hip-hop I grew up listening to I’ve heard. Eye opening.
El pushing back respectfully… DefJux was a dope label…
El-P is pure Hip Hop!!! I have been listening to him since the early 90's. J-tredds is also slept on.
I still wish that J-Treds would have put out a full album. He was dope.
J-tredds!!! Salute.
BRO J-Treds was next level. Mad Respect to EL, Co-Flow, and Indelible MCs
"I'm the livin circle circle dot dot, nobody can touch me"
J tredds had no album tho
Shout out el-P DOING THE MF THINGS RIGHT SINCE THE START!!! Shout out Deaf JUX, CO FLO AND all the 90s 80s real heads BBOYS ETC ETC
Principles- I came up almost exactly in that same mindset, which is why I hold that era absolutely SACRED.
"Weird, Whiteboy, off beat-ish... "
WTF?!
20 years ago, El-P would have smacked Rosenberg in the back of the head for that
@@gotjuice9 Word
cuz dude is a square
hes a complete idiot.
I met Company Flow in Santa Barbara in 1998 @ a vinyl spot called "Just Play Music", It was incredible! they rocked for like 20 people just huddled up in a record shop, 1 Speaker, 2 mics w #Dhalsim like extensions! They did "Krazy Kings'! Killed it. #HipHopLIVES -805-
I would say so late 90's & early
2000 -2003 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
10:09 EL-P speaks truth
Once the bling bling and the shiny suit shit came around 97, I started to despise the mainstream.
Wow dude. same here. I tell people I stopped listening to the radio in the exact same year. 1997! and went all underground. Bobbito Garcia is a hero of mine. Lyricist lounge, Rawkus, Project Blowed, all of these scenes were a reaction to the same thing. Once the radio got taken over and stopped being about the musical art it was natural for them to emerge.
Thurman Merman
You mean you didn't despise it when Vanilla Ice,Young MC,MC Hammer,Jesse James,Sir Mixalot were the mainstream representations of hip hop?
@@kevinscott59 first of all those guys didn't the foreign hip-hop at all going guys like that with the only thing left the radio got bad. Especially to new Yorkers. Also for me it was more about the whole industry being taken over by gangster wannabes in my opinion. Which is fine I even like a lot of gangster rap myself but I like a variety and when they totally took over the whole industry I was out of there.
@@kevinscott59 El-p got a line "And he sees how MCs
Became contorted with their own lies
And went from battle rap to gun talk
Like we ain't notice the change, yeah right"
@@cooloutac
Yeah.That shit is from "Smithereens."
EL-P knows what's up.
But this notion that mainstream rap radio ever promoted the most authentic representations of hip hop is a myth.
College and public radio throughout the 90s did that.Commercial radio did not.
Stretch and Bobbito were broadcast out of Columbia University since the late 80s.They were a counterpoint to commercial rap radio in nyc even then.
Wow Rosenberg really showed how little he knew about the underground in this interview.
Best producer/rapper all time crazy talented dude
El-p always been prob top 5 most original producers in hip-hop you can tell his drums from a mile away shit when fantastic damage dropped I ain't gonna lie it took a minute getting used to cold vein was different but fantastic damage was its own style
could listen to el p talk to himself for 100 years
Don't sleep on that 2000 Co Flow E.P.
the def jux presents compilation?
That was a Def Jux sampler, not a Co Flow EP.
The dpa single then
Moral of the story: Rosenburg's got no style.
Clown.
them boys are geeeeeeked
Its silly in a way bc there was peeps like Camu, Lif, Can Ox, Murs, etc in Def Jux alone, not to mention there was Rawkus that had Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, Talib, Hell I'll even throw Co Flow bc Len and Juss were two black men WITH El-P and hey maybe bc I'm kind of newer to that whole indie rap scene and discovering some older shit but I feel like it was just dudes that were making music to be raw and dope. I never really got a racially motivated thing out of it that it was "just white boys rhymin off beat and being vultures" or whatever the hell. If you arent into the whole underground backpack shit thats cool but to just kind of dismiss that whole movement seems wild lol. Maybe im tripping.
It's so disingenuous and such a bad take from that bald guy. I don't care who tf he is, he was being mad disrespectful. Def Jux contributed so much to hip-hop he clearly has no clue what he is talking about.
The only vulture involved is Rosenberg. He's scum.
"weird white boy off beatish"... spoken like a true amateur. Def jux was one of the best things to ever happen to hip-hop and completely revolutionized the game. El-p completely put this buffoon in his place lol
Yeah, I didn't know C Rayz Walz, Lif, Murs, Can Ox, etc. were weird white boys. Rosenberg is one of those annoying "white" people that are always sticking their noses in other people's business. Can't stand that guy.
Co Flow was DEFINITELY polarizing but man I was on the side that loved it
Big up EL Producto!
Mike looks so fucking stoned.
Nah I don't buy this conversation. Paul Rosenberg just really doesn't get hip hop. The underground scene was a bunch of off beat white boys to him? No one ever compared hip hop culture to religion before? What? . Been a huge void since Bobbito left and now you have to find good rap on blogs or streaming sites for yourself. Cause dudes like Paul Rosenberg have no real ear for music. He's just another vulture and people like him are partly to blame for how much the industry has changed. Which arguably might have been for the better from a fan's perspective. And probably even for the indie artists.
cooloutac
EL-P makes great points with respect to hardcore hip hop splintering along racial lines in the early 2000s in some regards.
But I agree with your broader point totally.
Rosenberg is an industry guy so he's completely tonedeaf to the Ultramag/PE/BDP/EPMD/Run DMN influences in EL-P's music.
I think you meant to say Peter Rosenberg
@@kevinscott59 no idea what you are referring to. Do you mean to say mainstream hip hop? It hasn't changed very much. Commercial hip hop is not really about the art or music imo. nerd rap, gangsta rap, abstract whatever you want to label it, it was always mixed to me and I really only like NYC type sounding raps no matter where someone was from. I stopped listening to hip hop on the radio in 97. back in those days I was listening to bobbito and stretch, lyricist lounge and rawkus records. Nowadays I just search around myself on bandcamp and soundcloud and blog sites.
Couldn't agree more about Rosenburg being a vulture. I've always wondered who the fuck thought he was worthy/educated enough about hip hop culture to host a hip hop show. One of the biggest clowns I've ever seen
Some of it was offbeat white boy shit. More hipster poetry than hip hop. Although we all choose what kind of music we make or listen to. So it is foolish to throw a fit over your fans or peers not being as "real" as you. Peter is basically saying "I'm a white backpacker but I'm not like THOSE white backpackers."
Def JuX was Dope!
Who'd have known that by 2021 Mike & EL-P would be in Krakoa (invite only) at the Hellfire Gala...
Gotta check that arc out
El-p is cyborg from the future here to save hip hop one beat at a time always been ahead of his time 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥
Def Jux was for the weirdo graf artists...I was one of them.
Tell em Jaime!
EL-Producto is in my top 20 rappers and producers in Hip Hop music.
top 2
top1
These dudes at Hot 97 are the biggest clowns ive ever seen in my life.
He said sing 🎵 songie 🎉
Is El-P wearing a Lidl hat?
Before even starting this. I better hear, Immortal Technique, Necro,Non-Phixion, DOOM,Akrobatik, 7L & Esoteric
El-p is the illest emcee, top 5 rappers of all time.
Sometimes I really don’t get how Pete does this as a living. How do you NOT GET he’s like IN THE MIDDLE of a large point here, 1:58 like there was no sign he was about to be finished, and you trying to ask an entirely different conversation before he’s even SAID what it is people back then didn’t get, is proving his point about why you didn’t get it. You didn’t try lmao
Rosenberg is a clown
It was weird, Phonte of little brother called it out, as it was happening, search “Three Things That Killed Hip Hop...By Phonte of Little Brother”
Defjux along with Anticon became a haven for Off-beat, rhythmless, awkward, abstract beyond comprehension white-boy rap. Grunge and rock was dying so the needed a place to go(the fans).
RJD2 was the best thing to come out of it. He was experimental while maintaining the rhythm that is essential to hip hop.
@@raymondcarter8915 phonte is wrong and you are credulous
@@Niacin1 They made Boom Bap Dorky,
Talib even talked about it on Math Hoffas podcast, and why he distanced himself from the underground "Backpack" rap scene wanting to make something more commercial with Kanye.
all that died down and the fans moved on
Eventually Sean Price (RIP) and Roc Marci had to bring it back to the streets and rejuvenate it. thank god. Pro Era held it down as well.
I don't think the DefJux and adjacent scenes fully understood the Soul and Funk involved in that style. They didn't grow up with James Brown, Issac Hayes and the like. They grew up on Red Hot Chilli peppers and what not.
I went to the jams, 9th used to come to south street in Philly and spin underground, he still spins on instagram.
Kev Brown, Doom, AZ, Reks, Termonology, Slum Village, Rasco, Reks, murs, Dialated, People under the stairs, artifacts etc.
nobody was checking for Defjux outside of El P and maybe Cannibal ox, it really wasnt part of the culture.
@@raymondcarter8915 you're delusional
ALL DAY
BERG has commercial mindset. He aint no artist
A man u ever pay everybody from Def jux yet ?? Lol nah jk El p is the greatest producer n maker of beats ever!!
lol what up vast aire
I don't think this interview is that old..
It's from 4 years ago. Who said it was "old"?
@@spek-27 The title of the video..
@@nightaox3954 What? The title says exactly what it is. It says that they're talking about what the NY underground hip hop scene was like back in the mid 90's to the mid 2000's. Where does it say that it's "old"? This was 4 years ago. That's not old.
@@spek-27 I know it's not old. The title of the video suggests this footage was from the mid 90s to mid 2000s.
@@nightaox3954 No it doesn't. It says EL-P is commenting about underground music from the mid 90's to mid 2000's. Mid 90's to mid 2000's is the topic of conversation, not when it's from.
im too lazy to read all the comments but all this talk about uderground this underground that while wearing beats headphones lol
He was always more a producer in my opinion
Not much of a performer
go watch his live concerts, he is crazy good on stage and sounds exactly the way he does in his songs!
Spoken like a clueless imbecile.