@@InsightCheck I would have at least had it burrow every other round to get some mileage out of it, deep dragon is really squishy for it's CR to counterbalance the damage avoidance it gets from burrow, with only 147 hit points.
With the update to Move, if the creature surfaces, it's no longer Burrowing and is instead Walking - using 2014 rules. And in 2024 rules, you can only use one type of speed per movement action. Is this right? Fact check me please. So if it surfaces to make an attack, it shouldn't be able to submerge itself again without a dash Action, yeah?
I actually had even more fun with this than I was expecting, and expectations were high :). I *do* wish we would have realized that I should’ve been making Wis saves in fight two (with heroes feast and an 18 Wis I think it would’ve gone a lot better), but regardless, in hindsight I kind of appreciated seeing how effective our combo was even with my character doing basically nothing but concentrating on a spell for the whole fight :). Nice work, Johnny.
I’m still annoyed about the save thing too, nerves got the best of me. Out of curiosity I went back and checked and even if I had run it correctly, you still would have failed the first one. Next time :) You made up for with the an ungodly amount of crits though haha
@@InsightCheck You weren't the only one. I was calling for Str saves for grapples, but it's Str or Dex, Colby was calling for Str saves for topple, but it's Con. I think these are all pretty minor errors that didn't affect the results too much.
@@TreantmonksTempleyeah totally. In the end it made for an epic moment with a dragon falling into some conjured Tarrasques and if that doesn’t scream one shot, I don’t even know what does :P
ha ha yeah I rolled a 6 and a 4 :P. At the end of my first turn I would've had a 19 though. Ah well! We all made mistakes! And hey, we were getting some bones thrown our way as well: you let us pre-cast before the fight started... imagine Chris's first turn in fight two if we hadn't graciously been allowed to have Spirit Guardians and Conjure Animals before the fight began. That first nerd just *might* *maybe* have survived long enough to get a web off! But maybe not...@@InsightCheck
"I won this combat for you nerds" was a well earned bit of roleplaying and optimizing. Jeremy did a great job of making decisions during the game, and you and Colby have demonstrated that the Monk most certainly no longer sucks with the updated rules. Nice to see Pack Tactics participating in this playtest, too. Fantastic teamwork among your party. Watching the playtest was interesting, and your party's roleplay made it entertaining. Thanks so much for doing this and for making this follow up video reviewing how your character build performed. I can't believe I'm actually excited at the prospect of playing a monk once the new PHB is released.
Really cool to see how solid the monk is. I've putt off playing them for a couple years now because they just seem meh, but now I'm excited to do a monk.
I was pretty impressed by the playtest as well. The new Monk really does an effective job of being a utility player. You had a good mix of setting up the other players and bringing the damage when you needed to.
Watching you wreck house as a monk, and Colby wreck house using his monk features as well was absolutely awesome. And the 4 elements flight and 120ft disengage moment was so clutch. Loved the whole thing through and through, but especially as a showcase of how fun the new monk is.
With their last video they actually did say that this was supposed to be the last playtest. Everything besides barbarian, druid, & monk had hit a satisfied rating high enough that they were willing to just tweak things internally from there. I would hope their would be at least 1 more for spells, but I actually think all of the classes look pretty good
@_zurr I'm not worried about Bard (Dance needs work but the rest are solid.) I'm far more worried about Ranger, Paladin, and Warlock. Also we still have no idea which Fighter will be replacing Brawler
I had to catch myself a few times, like “Damn that was harsh Treantmonk” before remembering you were in character haha. BTW One DnD playtests are some of my favorite content right now so thanks!
"I like to make my saving throws." The exact sentiment that makes about 75% of my builds contain 6+ levels of Paladin. Also one of the reasons I consider Watchers to be low-key the most powerful Paladin Oath. Getting a Channel Divinity that gives the party advantage on all mental saving throws for a minute is insanely powerful when paired with Aura of Protection. The other reason is that the Watchers Aura technically has infinite range - as long as you are within range of the Paladin when initiative is rolled, you don't have to stay near them to continue to reap the benefits. They could get Plane Shifted to another realm, and you will still have that bonus to initiative so long as it doesn't drop you out of the combat.
@@TreantmonksTemple doesn't really seem like there is much time left to get more public testing and feedback in before publication. But I thought their roadmap had listed other planned UA?
6:00 I also think telekinesis will become a saving throw, the only reason that it isn't atm is because it is based on the grapple rules in the 2014 rulebook, which have since become a saving throw
A saving throw is only meant to save you from mental or physical injury. Breaking something trying to constrain or restrict you is appropriately an ability check.
Great video! Really enjoyed the one shot too! DPR calculations are important and good to have, but if the best wizard spells deal zero damage. Hope to see more collaborations in the future!
Personally I don't think DPR calculations are important at all, though they can be fun to build for. It is only if you build for pure DPR it actually then becomes important, but only really for that player. So if you have more utility, durability, versatility etc for a more useful and well rounded PC in general play and the preparations for an encounter...
Was SOOOOOOOO glad to see the monk do well. When Elements came out I was pretty hyped for Fly Speed plus Grappler and I am glad it is as cool as I was hoping for. I loved your commitment to role play in the one shot! Great video Chris!
Elemental would have been BETTER if instead "you can opt to do elemental damage", you could do elemental damage in ADDITION to normal damage. Like a flaming sword etc.
very fun to see the playtest game and overall encouraging for monks in the 2024 rules .... plus i learned the over-powered use of telekinesis, burrowing creatures, and casting "hallow" as an action
I wonder if not being able to move between flurry of blows attacks is intentional because that’s very different from how the Way of the Drunken Master Monk works
I think it makes sense to not switch for the ability. Flurry of blows to me I visualize unloading on someone. It’s a quick succession of hits so I get it
I think it might be an oversight; The way flurry is worded in the playtest is identical to the way it is in 5e; it's the moving between attacks wording that's been changed. Or maybe it's not; I could sort of see it going either way.
21:18 it is, but i don't think that spell should be balanced around 15th level multiclass with 5 attacks. They probably should increase base damage to 4d8, keep the scaling, but make it once a turn effect. Druid and ranger always get the short end of the stick with their spells at the end.
I saw the full streaming on IC... You were amazing and finally monks are too! Monks were supposed to be all rounders, not the best dprs, controllers, or tanks. And that One DeD monk, with defense, offense and control tools really delivers that! I loved how you were provoking Laru, and that funny mood was awesome too. Like my own games. Loved it.❤
The stream was so much fun to watch live! I definitely want to play an Elements Monk even more now, and am more interested in feats like Grappler that I would have skipped over before (not very fond of playing Strength-based characters). Thanks for doing this!
It can be tough to play out these kind of adversarial roles at the table, kudos to everyone who played and great job working together and role playing a rivalry!
I am a 8 monk in a game using the new play test and my friend is a cleric using warding bond. It makes my deflect attacks almost 100%, making my monk very tanky and hard to hit especially in 1v1 encounters.
I can't say how glad I am that Grappler and Charger are good feats worth taking! The new rules are looking way more balanced and way more dynamic. Actually I can say: very.
New monk is wonderful! With Rogue and Barbarian having their gimics, I hope that Fighter has a polish in his subclasses, and that they think of a different way for him to use mastery properties for the base class. If I could suggest, I would say that instead of choosing weapons to master, he should choose the mastery property and use it with any weapon that has it (and add new properties to the weapon he uses at higher levels, like 9). If they added more mastery possibilities for versatile weapons, it would be even better.
I really like the idea of making mastery properties that aren't on any weapons by default; That way fighters get access to more than other weapon classes do, AND it makes it so the DM can make a magical or special weapon that's more unique than just "This is a +1 greatsword."
Proposed challenge - Create a build with the house rule of multi-classing requiring a Feat. Background - I think the current "multi-class at a whim" rules are weak thematically. It took 18 years of growing from childhood to become a level one character, but now you can gain level one in a different class in a single afternoon. Feats represent something taking more effort - you are practicing and learning over four levels before you can employ the new knowledge in combat.
I am glad the One D&D monk is so good. Personally i can't find any excitement for D&D with its remaining core flaws anymore, but most people will keep playing and i am glad that martial players will finally be strong!
Great Companion piece to the play test. Glad you explained the finalized characters, because I had seen the builds prior and then realized changes were made. Hope D4 and Pack Tactics due their own rundowns. As well as the DM (sorry, just joined his channel due to the play test and forget the channel name; really like the vids I've seen so far though) Personally, I loved the Cobra Kai trash talk, but can also see that people not expecting any role-play and especially that of the "trash talk" variety could be taken aback. Like with all role playing games, as long as the players are able to set personal limits, etc. before the "kill count" talk starts, it's all good. As far as counting kills, we should remember that Dnd is a team sport (game) just like yesterday's football games. Everyone knows it's a team sport, but in a game of inches the one putting the ball over gets time to dance.
You inspired me to try a Monk for a one-shot I was playing in at 14th level. I decided to stick with Mercy and I gotta say, that Monk is a lot of fun to play. I set him up to have the best AC I could come up with (AC: 23). You know, the mobility of the monk tends to get players in trouble as they usually outrun their party but I was able to bring a friend. I did get swarmed early on but had a high enough AC that the large volume of mooks attacking me all missed, then when the BBEG hit me, I used the deflect to kill one of his minions. That is such a cool feature. Can't recommend this enough.
I really enjoyed watching the oneshot. I am concerned with the whole Mastery and weapon juggling. Without having tried it, it seems strangely mechanical and not very narrative - Yes. I get that weapons basically becomes "cantrips" that you can quickly equip and unequip as you need them... But with the removal of how to change weapons... I am still not convinced I like the flavour. As you both played monks, comparing them to other classes was hard. But it looked fun.
Part of me kinda likes the image. Reminds me of Firion from Final Fantasy Dissidia ir Noctus from FF15. Summoning and hitting with weapons on every hit. However, I can see that not being for everyone. Maybe, they could pair back the masteries of base Fighter to one. Then make a subclass the designated juggler. But, people might just complain about Martial/Caster divide again. So I don't know what the immediate fix is.
UA monk’s been something alright. I didn’t actually end up watching the stream (was busy with shopping and some other stuff) but it looked like good clean fun, which is D&D at heart.
Whenever people would justify 5e Monk as a "support martial" I would always find it funny because there are countless other classes that are better at the support role. I didn't even think a support martial would ever be practical. This playtest really shows that the monk absolutely can fill the role of a support martial that does unique things and one of them obviously being the off-turn movement of allies. Everybody has been in a situation in D&D where you need to get someone out of a pinch and their turn isn't for a while. The options for that currently are dismal beyond a spell like Thunder Step. Another unique thing this monk does is just unleash an absolute onslaught of saving throws. Even if the enemy has high saves, if you force the enemy to keep making saves eventually they will fail against one of them. Such a huge number of saving throws could even overwhelm boss creatures with Legendary Resistance and once they fail one they become the whole party's punching bag.
And that beholder fight really shows one of the many reasons I don't really hold with the martial caster divide being a particular thing - A competent DM with prepared NPC can really shut down the magic users or put significant risks to their generally squashier selves (or burn them out of spell slots in short order as they try to overcome their squashier base nature), where the martial classes just keep on trucking and generally hold up better through a longer day - less reliant on the long rest only stuff. The real challenge is that once you get above level 10ish the PC's are so broken and godlike if you don't have a really good DM or 3rd party content any class will waltz through almost anything remotely near their challenge rating if they use their skills at all well. All that the magic (with no anti-magic from the NPC) tends to do is make the encounter OBVIOUSLY entirely trivial.
I don't think they are going to restrict the divine intervention to 1 action purely to allow Raise Dead to be cast with it, as that feels like the most obvious application of the ability in terms of only needing it every once in a while, being pivotal, and having the reduced gold cost being impactful. Restricting it to 1 hour or less would basically remove only Hallow, but in my opinion, that the only once that needs to be removed, so an hour of less seems possible
If something burrows underground shouldn't it leave a big enough hole for you to shoot down and hit it if it just moved straight down? Also you could just jump in the hole and just chase after it.
It was a really fun oneshot to watch, I love that it actually playtested the new spells and features, unlike what I typically do when I say I'm running a game using the playtest My players aren't optimisers so I suppose the feedback that I can give would be based on ye average players rather than an optimised oneshot, which wow Now that is high powered D&D
Sorry if someone already brought this up but I have a question. Did the grapple on the beholder work RAW or was there some houseruling? There really is no facing in 5E and grapple only reduces speed to zero. Was the beholder restrained and kept from pointing the anti-magic cone around? Was it the feat? Just curious about the beholder not being able to turn. Although that was very cool. Also, wouldn’t stun end the anti-magic cone or does it just stay up no matter what? Anyway. Enjoyed watching the playtest session. Thanks to Insight Check and the rest for doing this. And thanks for your follow up feedback for us less-than-optimizers watching and playing :)
Regarding dealing with the burrowing dragon: I'm sorry but his burrow speed is a mere 30ft., and it has no earthglide. If it's playing peekaboo with you, it's ending its movement 15-20ft. away at the end of a freshly-dug tunnel. just WALK inside and punch it
Even the plain old 5E monk is really good at movement and not taking damage. I've played a lot of monks, and they just get harder and harder to do damage to. Sure, their DPR isn't great, so you're counting on the companions to deal the damage, but I think monks are and always have been good in combat in a nice well-rounded party.
could you do a rundown on Berserker Barbarian and Assassin Rogue to see what was really changed and if they're really better than what there currently are.
Honestly, the main question with most of the martials in the playtest is "is it worth staying in this martial after Extra Attack instead of multiclassing out to something else--like Rogue." In the case of monk, your DPR doesn't go up as much as if you hop over to Rogue--one more hit with flurry of blows and slightly larger martial arts dice is not going to be the equivalent of 5d6 sneak attack damage and a weapon mastery. BUT staying in monk you also get nice saving throws, AND deflect energy, AND more ki, and you know it's not like you're gaining no damage, just a little less damage than you'd gain with 9-10 rogue levels. Seems fine to stay in Monk. Is Rogue the best place for every OneDnD martial to multiclass out to if they do multiclass out? I dunno, but Rogue is easy to number crunch, so it makes a decent benchmark, and definitely early in the playtest several OneDnD martials had mediocre high level features so were just numerically better multiclassing to Rogue.
Charisma save check to prevent the slow was weird. I'm not an expert with One D&D (I know almost nothing about the rules), so I don't know if the dragon was updated. I'm not sure if this was homebrew or a mistake. New (updated) feats work well with the empty-handed monk.
Let it be known, that I started the livestream and lost interest early on. Watching your video and specifically your set up of the 3rd fight has convinced me to go back and watch the whole stream. Starting from the combat
The "anti magic flashlight" is not only an amazing move, it is also the most hardcore cinematic move ever! :) But does grapple really allow you to change the facing of the target? As a DM I would allow it, but unsure of the RAW.
Flashlight? If you grapple someone, why would you think you couldn't turn them? Especially if they are levitating? Just out of curiosity have you ever been an actual fight? Just asking because most people who are into video games and table top games have never done much physically (fighting, wrestling, weight lifting etc.) so they are unfamiliar with the physics and leverage involved.
man i wish my grappler astral self monk could do that, the playtest monk looks so fun, but i dont think our dm would let one player switch to a playtest character from a different game edition xd
Felt bad for pact tactics on this one. He got caster loled pretty heavily. I am also not sure if he was just too reliant on a couple strats or if the caster martial "divide" is just kind of gone now. I also don't actually think the Hallow strat was "OP" it is a once per long rest effect and honestly felt like a strong effect, but it is also level 10 and I want a one time use effect to be strong at 10. Ya seems like there was a big focus for pact tactics on a couple powerful concentration spells, but he didn't prepare enough non-concentration spells to compliment those strats. Concentration is a very real cost. One example would be freedom of movement which would have gotten past grapples and difficult terrain, something I believe is super important when employing spirit gaurdian strats.
That's the largest issue with Min-Max players the get to stuck on what on paper makes something "strong" but in practice it is almost never as good as they think it is. Hence why most tables ban min-maxing because it usually ends up with players not having fun in some way
@@brandonhowell5096 What I am talking about isn't a min/max issue. What I just said was BETTER min/maxing. I was saying that the valuation of non-concentration spells was off because you can cast them while concentrating on your "go to" concentration spell. That is optimal play. Having spells like Command, freedom of movement to pair with the spirit guardians concentration spell IS optimal. The reason he might not felt as good is because he DIDN'T successfully create an optimal min/maxed character. This is because some spells are just undervalued because they aren't as good for the slot as some of the concentration spells, but at higher levels the slot matters less than the action economy.
Majority of people play casually and under level 7. And playing like that, If you pick random spell that sounds cool you will barely do any damage or apply any control while with oneDnD changes martials deals almost 1.5 times more damage than before and keep enemies prone every turn, 0 optimization required. And if you don't know how to cheese and use OP spells- "broken" wizard is the most miserable class. But because of reddit and youtube people act like there are some pvp-ranked endgame after level 20 where all character transported to and have to compete.
You seem to have a lot of experience with higher level DND. I am very curious how you felt about the game flow with all the new features that caused extra rolls - e.g. conjure animals attacking multiple times a round, the new monk causing up to 5 saves a turn etc. Was it similar to 2014 high level play, was this a problem from your perspective or totally fine?
There's a lot more saving throws, which I'm not a fan of. I would prefer if they could find a way to streamline the abilities so everything doesn't need an additional roll.
So here is the question: Now that OneD&D, 5.5, or 6th edition whatever you call it is coming out are you going to reevaluate and readjust how you rank a build instead of based solely on dpr? You said in this video dpr was not even really a factor.
@TreantmonksTemple I understand that I guess what I am asking is, are you trying to evaluate for more than just dpr? Like efficiency of a character. For instance, taking your Monk build and its efficiency to grapple Monsters by challenge rating. It is a lot of initial work but finding the average saves of each CR (Probably in the Monster Manual) and how a character stacks up in each facet of combat. Like I said, a lot of initial work but once you have it you can just plug in the relevant character numbers and see a more holistic overview of a character's strengths and weaknesses.
Martial caster devide isn't a real problem. The problem is that martials just not as fun as casters sometimes, and this isn't a damage problem, it's a feature problem. 1 shitty feature for a caster is irrelavent because each spell is a feature and they get a lot of those, for a nartial 1 bad feature can mean that they basically didnt level up or develop and comparing it to how many features castrs get valeu of every sing feature for a martial is so much higher so in the end we get that every relevant feature for a martial shoul do many different and open-ended things and i learned that after writing my own martial clas which is total dogshit for this exact reason.
If the designers see this, they’re going to make that flight and bonus damage on the elements monk magical. Which bugs me, since having non-magical abilities is what martials really crave.
I used a dragon vs the party. Kept diving underwater after breath weapon attack. Wasnt too exciting. Smart as fuck on the dragons part, but the dungeon is cleared and they have no option to grind up to a new lvl to get new options. I went into more direct combat so the story can continue. I want the categories of Sp, Su and Ex back. I cant believe monks flight would be extraordinary, not supernatural.
That moment with the beholder was…… pivotal
👏👏👏
Nice.
Cue Colby's end-of-video song with, "to everything, turn, turn, turn..."
Man, I think I need to turn a blind eye to this comment.
(Adjusts sunglasses and turns away from the camera) YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Truly some of the most fun I’ve had playing D&D! It was a blast even if everything wasn’t run “perfectly”. Thanks to everyone for watching!
It was a blast to watch! A game is perfect if everyone playing it is having fun.
Jeremy deciding he wouldn't burrow after seeing its effects in the first combat was a really considerate move.
Makes a lot of sense in a quick 1-shot. You got a time limit and are trying to move quickly. Would be more fun for an epic campaign boss.
Thanks :)
It just felt like the right thing to do.
@@JJV7243 I think that would also be an unfun slog tbh
@@InsightCheck I would have at least had it burrow every other round to get some mileage out of it, deep dragon is really squishy for it's CR to counterbalance the damage avoidance it gets from burrow, with only 147 hit points.
With the update to Move, if the creature surfaces, it's no longer Burrowing and is instead Walking - using 2014 rules.
And in 2024 rules, you can only use one type of speed per movement action.
Is this right? Fact check me please.
So if it surfaces to make an attack, it shouldn't be able to submerge itself again without a dash Action, yeah?
I actually had even more fun with this than I was expecting, and expectations were high :). I *do* wish we would have realized that I should’ve been making Wis saves in fight two (with heroes feast and an 18 Wis I think it would’ve gone a lot better), but regardless, in hindsight I kind of appreciated seeing how effective our combo was even with my character doing basically nothing but concentrating on a spell for the whole fight :). Nice work, Johnny.
I’m still annoyed about the save thing too, nerves got the best of me. Out of curiosity I went back and checked and even if I had run it correctly, you still would have failed the first one.
Next time :)
You made up for with the an ungodly amount of crits though haha
We are a kick-ass team
@@InsightCheck You weren't the only one. I was calling for Str saves for grapples, but it's Str or Dex, Colby was calling for Str saves for topple, but it's Con. I think these are all pretty minor errors that didn't affect the results too much.
@@TreantmonksTempleyeah totally. In the end it made for an epic moment with a dragon falling into some conjured Tarrasques and if that doesn’t scream one shot, I don’t even know what does :P
ha ha yeah I rolled a 6 and a 4 :P. At the end of my first turn I would've had a 19 though. Ah well! We all made mistakes! And hey, we were getting some bones thrown our way as well: you let us pre-cast before the fight started... imagine Chris's first turn in fight two if we hadn't graciously been allowed to have Spirit Guardians and Conjure Animals before the fight began. That first nerd just *might* *maybe* have survived long enough to get a web off! But maybe not...@@InsightCheck
"I won this combat for you nerds" was a well earned bit of roleplaying and optimizing. Jeremy did a great job of making decisions during the game, and you and Colby have demonstrated that the Monk most certainly no longer sucks with the updated rules. Nice to see Pack Tactics participating in this playtest, too. Fantastic teamwork among your party. Watching the playtest was interesting, and your party's roleplay made it entertaining. Thanks so much for doing this and for making this follow up video reviewing how your character build performed. I can't believe I'm actually excited at the prospect of playing a monk once the new PHB is released.
Really cool to see how solid the monk is. I've putt off playing them for a couple years now because they just seem meh, but now I'm excited to do a monk.
Words cannot express my joy at seeing a monk 15 not just be viable, but excel
So true!
Normally did some monk levels for flavor, now even pure monk is viable and some dips to other options just widen the posibilities!
Nice!
I was pretty impressed by the playtest as well. The new Monk really does an effective job of being a utility player. You had a good mix of setting up the other players and bringing the damage when you needed to.
Watching you wreck house as a monk, and Colby wreck house using his monk features as well was absolutely awesome. And the 4 elements flight and 120ft disengage moment was so clutch. Loved the whole thing through and through, but especially as a showcase of how fun the new monk is.
I can’t believe it’s already been 2 months since the last UA. It makes me wonder if we’re gonna get another one before the books come out
I'm wondering the same thing
I would hope so for the Bard. I don't want my (current) favourite class to die...
With their last video they actually did say that this was supposed to be the last playtest. Everything besides barbarian, druid, & monk had hit a satisfied rating high enough that they were willing to just tweak things internally from there.
I would hope their would be at least 1 more for spells, but I actually think all of the classes look pretty good
I need a new ranger
@_zurr I'm not worried about Bard (Dance needs work but the rest are solid.) I'm far more worried about Ranger, Paladin, and Warlock. Also we still have no idea which Fighter will be replacing Brawler
I had to catch myself a few times, like “Damn that was harsh Treantmonk” before remembering you were in character haha.
BTW One DnD playtests are some of my favorite content right now so thanks!
Also with the burrowing dragon I think the other 2 party members were slowed and didn't have reactions
I believe Kobold's character wasn't slowed, just his mount. But yeah, I forgot Colby's character didn't even have the ability to ready actions.
"I like to make my saving throws."
The exact sentiment that makes about 75% of my builds contain 6+ levels of Paladin.
Also one of the reasons I consider Watchers to be low-key the most powerful Paladin Oath. Getting a Channel Divinity that gives the party advantage on all mental saving throws for a minute is insanely powerful when paired with Aura of Protection. The other reason is that the Watchers Aura technically has infinite range - as long as you are within range of the Paladin when initiative is rolled, you don't have to stay near them to continue to reap the benefits. They could get Plane Shifted to another realm, and you will still have that bonus to initiative so long as it doesn't drop you out of the combat.
It feels like a long time since we heard anything from WotC about the playtest; hasn't it?
It's been 2 months. I'm starting to wonder if we're done with playtest docs
@@TreantmonksTemple doesn't really seem like there is much time left to get more public testing and feedback in before publication. But I thought their roadmap had listed other planned UA?
6:00 I also think telekinesis will become a saving throw, the only reason that it isn't atm is because it is based on the grapple rules in the 2014 rulebook, which have since become a saving throw
That's exactly it
A saving throw is only meant to save you from mental or physical injury. Breaking something trying to constrain or restrict you is appropriately an ability check.
Just finished watching this. You guys rocked this
Yeah man. That Hallow spell broke the 3rd encounter! 💣💣💣The damage output was insane!
Great video! Really enjoyed the one shot too! DPR calculations are important and good to have, but if the best wizard spells deal zero damage. Hope to see more collaborations in the future!
Personally I don't think DPR calculations are important at all, though they can be fun to build for. It is only if you build for pure DPR it actually then becomes important, but only really for that player. So if you have more utility, durability, versatility etc for a more useful and well rounded PC in general play and the preparations for an encounter...
I'm glad you stuck with the pure monk, excellent showing!
Was SOOOOOOOO glad to see the monk do well.
When Elements came out I was pretty hyped for Fly Speed plus Grappler and I am glad it is as cool as I was hoping for.
I loved your commitment to role play in the one shot!
Great video Chris!
Elemental would have been BETTER if instead "you can opt to do elemental damage", you could do elemental damage in ADDITION to normal damage. Like a flaming sword etc.
very fun to see the playtest game and overall encouraging for monks in the 2024 rules .... plus i learned the over-powered use of telekinesis, burrowing creatures, and casting "hallow" as an action
I wouldn't say telekinesis is overpowered, the guy had an 8 strength for some reason.
Chris was carrying the group so hard in all of those fights.
Often literally
I definitely carried Kobold's character in fight 3
And the beginning of round 1
I wonder if not being able to move between flurry of blows attacks is intentional because that’s very different from how the Way of the Drunken Master Monk works
I'm not sure, maybe they weren't considering FoB.
I think it makes sense to not switch for the ability. Flurry of blows to me I visualize unloading on someone. It’s a quick succession of hits so I get it
I think it might be an oversight; The way flurry is worded in the playtest is identical to the way it is in 5e; it's the moving between attacks wording that's been changed. Or maybe it's not; I could sort of see it going either way.
21:18 it is, but i don't think that spell should be balanced around 15th level multiclass with 5 attacks. They probably should increase base damage to 4d8, keep the scaling, but make it once a turn effect. Druid and ranger always get the short end of the stick with their spells at the end.
Once per turn would be a good restriction.
I saw the full streaming on IC... You were amazing and finally monks are too! Monks were supposed to be all rounders, not the best dprs, controllers, or tanks. And that One DeD monk, with defense, offense and control tools really delivers that! I loved how you were provoking Laru, and that funny mood was awesome too. Like my own games. Loved it.❤
i’m so glad that 1) the monk works! and 2) the elements monk also works! i can’t wait to play the avatar in a future D&D game!
Excellent analysis. Very enjoyable. Thanks! :)
The stream was so much fun to watch live! I definitely want to play an Elements Monk even more now, and am more interested in feats like Grappler that I would have skipped over before (not very fond of playing Strength-based characters). Thanks for doing this!
The fact that you won without Kobold needing to go all out really shows how strong playtest characters are.
This is very promising! I've been really liking what I've seen so far of playtest 8 monk
It can be tough to play out these kind of adversarial roles at the table, kudos to everyone who played and great job working together and role playing a rivalry!
I am a 8 monk in a game using the new play test and my friend is a cleric using warding bond. It makes my deflect attacks almost 100%, making my monk very tanky and hard to hit especially in 1v1 encounters.
Nice combo!
Thank you for your dedicated advocacy for fixing the Monk in the new edition!
I appreciate the recap, Chris. I tried watching but struggled due to the lack of narrative. (Mike's Gauntlet from CMCC builds is the same way)
I can't say how glad I am that Grappler and Charger are good feats worth taking! The new rules are looking way more balanced and way more dynamic.
Actually I can say: very.
The only problem with that is you forgo your ability increases for one of those.
I’m digging the collaborations
New monk is wonderful! With Rogue and Barbarian having their gimics, I hope that Fighter has a polish in his subclasses, and that they think of a different way for him to use mastery properties for the base class. If I could suggest, I would say that instead of choosing weapons to master, he should choose the mastery property and use it with any weapon that has it (and add new properties to the weapon he uses at higher levels, like 9). If they added more mastery possibilities for versatile weapons, it would be even better.
I really like the idea of making mastery properties that aren't on any weapons by default; That way fighters get access to more than other weapon classes do, AND it makes it so the DM can make a magical or special weapon that's more unique than just "This is a +1 greatsword."
Proposed challenge - Create a build with the house rule of multi-classing requiring a Feat.
Background - I think the current "multi-class at a whim" rules are weak thematically. It took 18 years of growing from childhood to become a level one character, but now you can gain level one in a different class in a single afternoon. Feats represent something taking more effort - you are practicing and learning over four levels before you can employ the new knowledge in combat.
Very much liked the flavor of your character, Chris, and - as always - how efficiently you were playing the game 👍
Thank you!
I pity the fool who doesn't watch this video! Oh wait.. wrong bad 1980s character..
I am glad the One D&D monk is so good.
Personally i can't find any excitement for D&D with its remaining core flaws anymore, but most people will keep playing and i am glad that martial players will finally be strong!
Great Companion piece to the play test.
Glad you explained the finalized characters, because I had seen the builds prior and then realized changes were made.
Hope D4 and Pack Tactics due their own rundowns. As well as the DM (sorry, just joined his channel due to the play test and forget the channel name; really like the vids I've seen so far though)
Personally, I loved the Cobra Kai trash talk, but can also see that people not expecting any role-play and especially that of the "trash talk" variety could be taken aback. Like with all role playing games, as long as the players are able to set personal limits, etc. before the "kill count" talk starts, it's all good.
As far as counting kills, we should remember that Dnd is a team sport (game) just like yesterday's football games. Everyone knows it's a team sport, but in a game of inches the one putting the ball over gets time to dance.
Every time, I am reminded just how important initiative is.
You inspired me to try a Monk for a one-shot I was playing in at 14th level. I decided to stick with Mercy and I gotta say, that Monk is a lot of fun to play. I set him up to have the best AC I could come up with (AC: 23). You know, the mobility of the monk tends to get players in trouble as they usually outrun their party but I was able to bring a friend. I did get swarmed early on but had a high enough AC that the large volume of mooks attacking me all missed, then when the BBEG hit me, I used the deflect to kill one of his minions. That is such a cool feature. Can't recommend this enough.
I really enjoyed watching the oneshot.
I am concerned with the whole Mastery and weapon juggling. Without having tried it, it seems strangely mechanical and not very narrative - Yes. I get that weapons basically becomes "cantrips" that you can quickly equip and unequip as you need them... But with the removal of how to change weapons... I am still not convinced I like the flavour.
As you both played monks, comparing them to other classes was hard. But it looked fun.
The weapon equipping rules work very nicely for thrown weapons, but with melee it gets a bit silly.
Part of me kinda likes the image. Reminds me of Firion from Final Fantasy Dissidia ir Noctus from FF15. Summoning and hitting with weapons on every hit. However, I can see that not being for everyone. Maybe, they could pair back the masteries of base Fighter to one. Then make a subclass the designated juggler. But, people might just complain about Martial/Caster divide again. So I don't know what the immediate fix is.
Loved Monk's before and after. It was amazing.
The play test was fun to watch
Looks like fun. Glad to see things working.
Been saying forever that the monk’s flexibility is undervalued.
This was incredibly good feedback. Great video.
Much appreciated!
UA monk’s been something alright. I didn’t actually end up watching the stream (was busy with shopping and some other stuff) but it looked like good clean fun, which is D&D at heart.
Whenever people would justify 5e Monk as a "support martial" I would always find it funny because there are countless other classes that are better at the support role. I didn't even think a support martial would ever be practical. This playtest really shows that the monk absolutely can fill the role of a support martial that does unique things and one of them obviously being the off-turn movement of allies. Everybody has been in a situation in D&D where you need to get someone out of a pinch and their turn isn't for a while. The options for that currently are dismal beyond a spell like Thunder Step. Another unique thing this monk does is just unleash an absolute onslaught of saving throws. Even if the enemy has high saves, if you force the enemy to keep making saves eventually they will fail against one of them. Such a huge number of saving throws could even overwhelm boss creatures with Legendary Resistance and once they fail one they become the whole party's punching bag.
And that beholder fight really shows one of the many reasons I don't really hold with the martial caster divide being a particular thing - A competent DM with prepared NPC can really shut down the magic users or put significant risks to their generally squashier selves (or burn them out of spell slots in short order as they try to overcome their squashier base nature), where the martial classes just keep on trucking and generally hold up better through a longer day - less reliant on the long rest only stuff.
The real challenge is that once you get above level 10ish the PC's are so broken and godlike if you don't have a really good DM or 3rd party content any class will waltz through almost anything remotely near their challenge rating if they use their skills at all well. All that the magic (with no anti-magic from the NPC) tends to do is make the encounter OBVIOUSLY entirely trivial.
I don't think they are going to restrict the divine intervention to 1 action purely to allow Raise Dead to be cast with it, as that feels like the most obvious application of the ability in terms of only needing it every once in a while, being pivotal, and having the reduced gold cost being impactful. Restricting it to 1 hour or less would basically remove only Hallow, but in my opinion, that the only once that needs to be removed, so an hour of less seems possible
That's a good point. I bet Raise Dead was their first thought with divine intervention
If something burrows underground shouldn't it leave a big enough hole for you to shoot down and hit it if it just moved straight down? Also you could just jump in the hole and just chase after it.
Thank you for your information video. Well done
One note though, adult deep dragon is supposed to be huge size, so you shouldn't have been able to grapple it.
He never tried to grapple it. He mentioned that he should have in this video and he would be wrong, just as you said.
It was a really fun oneshot to watch, I love that it actually playtested the new spells and features, unlike what I typically do when I say I'm running a game using the playtest
My players aren't optimisers so I suppose the feedback that I can give would be based on ye average players rather than an optimised oneshot, which wow
Now that is high powered D&D
Only a straight monk can have 10 fingers in each hands
Best comment ever. "I won this combat for you nerds" chris really did channel johnny in this one shot!
So good to its so good to hear the monk being viable. I really love this!
With all the weapon switching, Corey's build should have been called the Way of the Extra Hand.
One handed robber!
😂
Is tree hand robber oven better?
😂😂😂
This video is a masterpiece
Im using the playtest monk on a fresh new campaing and having a blast
Sorry if someone already brought this up but I have a question. Did the grapple on the beholder work RAW or was there some houseruling? There really is no facing in 5E and grapple only reduces speed to zero. Was the beholder restrained and kept from pointing the anti-magic cone around? Was it the feat? Just curious about the beholder not being able to turn.
Although that was very cool.
Also, wouldn’t stun end the anti-magic cone or does it just stay up no matter what?
Anyway. Enjoyed watching the playtest session. Thanks to Insight Check and the rest for doing this.
And thanks for your follow up feedback for us less-than-optimizers watching and playing :)
It was house ruling, the beholder decides where it faces. Stun doesn't effect vision.
Regarding dealing with the burrowing dragon: I'm sorry but his burrow speed is a mere 30ft., and it has no earthglide. If it's playing peekaboo with you, it's ending its movement 15-20ft. away at the end of a freshly-dug tunnel. just WALK inside and punch it
Even the plain old 5E monk is really good at movement and not taking damage. I've played a lot of monks, and they just get harder and harder to do damage to. Sure, their DPR isn't great, so you're counting on the companions to deal the damage, but I think monks are and always have been good in combat in a nice well-rounded party.
This session showed us that no amount of optimization is any match for unbelievably bad (or good) luck
could you do a rundown on Berserker Barbarian and Assassin Rogue to see what was really changed and if they're really better than what there currently are.
You still owe us a playtest with your mercy monk 😁
Two warriors.. and their sidekick Kobald
Honestly, the main question with most of the martials in the playtest is "is it worth staying in this martial after Extra Attack instead of multiclassing out to something else--like Rogue."
In the case of monk, your DPR doesn't go up as much as if you hop over to Rogue--one more hit with flurry of blows and slightly larger martial arts dice is not going to be the equivalent of 5d6 sneak attack damage and a weapon mastery. BUT staying in monk you also get nice saving throws, AND deflect energy, AND more ki, and you know it's not like you're gaining no damage, just a little less damage than you'd gain with 9-10 rogue levels. Seems fine to stay in Monk.
Is Rogue the best place for every OneDnD martial to multiclass out to if they do multiclass out? I dunno, but Rogue is easy to number crunch, so it makes a decent benchmark, and definitely early in the playtest several OneDnD martials had mediocre high level features so were just numerically better multiclassing to Rogue.
Hind sight: nobody said sweep the leg, or put’em in a body bag.
Charisma save check to prevent the slow was weird. I'm not an expert with One D&D (I know almost nothing about the rules), so I don't know if the dragon was updated. I'm not sure if this was homebrew or a mistake.
New (updated) feats work well with the empty-handed monk.
It was a mistake :)
Let it be known, that I started the livestream and lost interest early on. Watching your video and specifically your set up of the 3rd fight has convinced me to go back and watch the whole stream. Starting from the combat
The "anti magic flashlight" is not only an amazing move, it is also the most hardcore cinematic move ever! :) But does grapple really allow you to change the facing of the target? As a DM I would allow it, but unsure of the RAW.
Flashlight? If you grapple someone, why would you think you couldn't turn them? Especially if they are levitating? Just out of curiosity have you ever been an actual fight? Just asking because most people who are into video games and table top games have never done much physically (fighting, wrestling, weight lifting etc.) so they are unfamiliar with the physics and leverage involved.
I think burrow speeds could be 'rechargeable' like dragons breaths. It increases the combat difficultly without it becoming too gimmicky.
Or maybe you can only burrow in or out, but not both on your turn. I think that would work, but something needs to happen.
@@gloryrod86 even better. And I think that's how most of my DMs have run it.
Gonna be honest, it’s concerning that you never fell below 50% health and the cleric didn’t have to cast any higher level spells.
I'd like to see another test at lower levels (5-6)
man i wish my grappler astral self monk could do that, the playtest monk looks so fun, but i dont think our dm would let one player switch to a playtest character from a different game edition xd
Everybody loves Johnny Lawrence
Yeah, but both kobold and Colby built indirect damage casters. They used control spells for extra damage. So not a 1 for 1 comparison.
We deliberately built a teamwork based party. Any competition was just RP
I 'prefer' that some things are still ability contested, like STR, but I may be in the minority.
The "ki" for us winning?
Gg fellas
Felt bad for pact tactics on this one. He got caster loled pretty heavily. I am also not sure if he was just too reliant on a couple strats or if the caster martial "divide" is just kind of gone now.
I also don't actually think the Hallow strat was "OP" it is a once per long rest effect and honestly felt like a strong effect, but it is also level 10 and I want a one time use effect to be strong at 10.
Ya seems like there was a big focus for pact tactics on a couple powerful concentration spells, but he didn't prepare enough non-concentration spells to compliment those strats. Concentration is a very real cost. One example would be freedom of movement which would have gotten past grapples and difficult terrain, something I believe is super important when employing spirit gaurdian strats.
That's the largest issue with Min-Max players the get to stuck on what on paper makes something "strong" but in practice it is almost never as good as they think it is. Hence why most tables ban min-maxing because it usually ends up with players not having fun in some way
@@brandonhowell5096 What I am talking about isn't a min/max issue. What I just said was BETTER min/maxing. I was saying that the valuation of non-concentration spells was off because you can cast them while concentrating on your "go to" concentration spell. That is optimal play. Having spells like Command, freedom of movement to pair with the spirit guardians concentration spell IS optimal. The reason he might not felt as good is because he DIDN'T successfully create an optimal min/maxed character. This is because some spells are just undervalued because they aren't as good for the slot as some of the concentration spells, but at higher levels the slot matters less than the action economy.
Majority of people play casually and under level 7. And playing like that, If you pick random spell that sounds cool you will barely do any damage or apply any control while with oneDnD changes martials deals almost 1.5 times more damage than before and keep enemies prone every turn, 0 optimization required. And if you don't know how to cheese and use OP spells- "broken" wizard is the most miserable class. But because of reddit and youtube people act like there are some pvp-ranked endgame after level 20 where all character transported to and have to compete.
You seem to have a lot of experience with higher level DND. I am very curious how you felt about the game flow with all the new features that caused extra rolls - e.g. conjure animals attacking multiple times a round, the new monk causing up to 5 saves a turn etc. Was it similar to 2014 high level play, was this a problem from your perspective or totally fine?
There's a lot more saving throws, which I'm not a fan of. I would prefer if they could find a way to streamline the abilities so everything doesn't need an additional roll.
QUIET!!
Heh, blind spot. Nice.
So here is the question: Now that OneD&D, 5.5, or 6th edition whatever you call it is coming out are you going to reevaluate and readjust how you rank a build instead of based solely on dpr? You said in this video dpr was not even really a factor.
I've been re-evaluating DPR for quite a while.
@TreantmonksTemple I understand that I guess what I am asking is, are you trying to evaluate for more than just dpr? Like efficiency of a character. For instance, taking your Monk build and its efficiency to grapple Monsters by challenge rating. It is a lot of initial work but finding the average saves of each CR (Probably in the Monster Manual) and how a character stacks up in each facet of combat.
Like I said, a lot of initial work but once you have it you can just plug in the relevant character numbers and see a more holistic overview of a character's strengths and weaknesses.
Your 8 str build for carrying people doesn't work, because you had 8 str.
Not a fan if optimizing as a party forces someone to drastically change their build. Good on you for being flexible though.
I suspect it was very mutual. He already said Colby didn't want to change his build, so clearly it wasn't a 'you must do this' kinda thing
I get it's just a play test but his rp of monk of no mercy was wrecked lol. Oh well.
@@dwgautierThat's very fair
accracy just like febuary. nobody cares how accuracy or February are spelled, drop those letters like you're British :D
Did you find conjure animals was just better spirit guardians now?
There were a lot of crits, so for this one shot for sure, in general, not sure.
@@TreantmonksTemple thats what i was afraid of 😕 i hope they refine it more before the next PHB is released
Why do so many people mispronounce Hallow as Hollow?
Martial caster devide isn't a real problem. The problem is that martials just not as fun as casters sometimes, and this isn't a damage problem, it's a feature problem. 1 shitty feature for a caster is irrelavent because each spell is a feature and they get a lot of those, for a nartial 1 bad feature can mean that they basically didnt level up or develop and comparing it to how many features castrs get valeu of every sing feature for a martial is so much higher so in the end we get that every relevant feature for a martial shoul do many different and open-ended things and i learned that after writing my own martial clas which is total dogshit for this exact reason.
If the designers see this, they’re going to make that flight and bonus damage on the elements monk magical. Which bugs me, since having non-magical abilities is what martials really crave.
I'm definitely skipping One. Lol
I really hate the "push enemies into AOE effects" meta that D&D has established.
I like it 🤷♂️ maybe I wouldn't if it was the only viable strategy, but it's one of many so i think its cool.
I used a dragon vs the party. Kept diving underwater after breath weapon attack. Wasnt too exciting. Smart as fuck on the dragons part, but the dungeon is cleared and they have no option to grind up to a new lvl to get new options. I went into more direct combat so the story can continue.
I want the categories of Sp, Su and Ex back. I cant believe monks flight would be extraordinary, not supernatural.