Magic Missile Optimization: The Missiler D&D 5e
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 The Trick
2:10 The Rules
3:20 Optimizing the Rule
7:17 What works and what doesn't
13:53 The Missiler
15:36 Limitations 
Игры
"I cast Shield, haha now what will you do?"
*Is still a 17th level wizard*
"Ahh shit."
The sorcerer teammate subtle spell cast silence on the area the enemy wizard is in so they can’t cast any spells.
"Thank you for using your reaction. Gang? Do your stuff." *mic drop*
Mage takes his move to walk away from the silenced zone. You hear the sounds of him wispering the spell.
@@sergeyhetman1542 That's what I always wondered all players and the GM know where the zone of silence is, but does the NPC? The GM usually just moves out of it and calls it good. I guess the players do the same thing. Do we call it a wash?
@@robnlarie All the sounds are gone. You don't hear the wind and trees anymore. Only terrible silence surrounds you.
You heard about such spells, but never thought that being in complete silence is so scary.
I just started running and apparently, the world is just normal just 20 steps away. FIREBALL!
Of all spells that belong on Artillerist, Magic Missile is the most logical.
In the UA, Artillerist got MM and Armorer got Shield.
My suspicion is that they moved MM off Artillerist specifically because of this interaction.
Armorer having a 27 AC was pretty nuts, 29 at level 10.@user-fs4yk1ik8d
Artillerist casting magic missile by pulling up to the battle with an entire BM-13 Katyusha truck
Introducing- Magical sniper. With the spell sniper feat, who can output a ridiculous 3d4+3d8+3 with one level one spell slot that always hits at a stupid range of 240. Good luck
@Koopaperson that doesn't work wiyh the published version though. There is no way to get the Magic Missile spell onto the Artillerist spell list and Arcane Firearm only works when you cast an Artificer spell.
We have a player who loves magic missile for the simplicity of it. I think I may recommend this video to her.
It’s my go to wizard spell.
it's an OG for a reason: it just works
And thus begins the story of Simplicius Ballistius
Simplicity? Lightning Bolt. Straight line in front of you. You don't even roll saves, the DM does.
You just say "Lightning Bolt", roll 8d6, and can leave the table to go take a leak and let the rest of the people react.
I have a magic missile enthusiast in one of the games I play in! He calls it the "ol' reliable".
"We're starting off with a twitter exchange."
For a second there I was worried. Well played.
You can always count on Chris for a full in-depth analysis. I appreciate how thoroughly you research your topics. No matter how much I’ve investigated a feature interaction, I always learn something new when it’s covered here.
This is really interesting and cool. The darkness doesn't stand a chance to soak all of that damage.
You have to see the target to hit with magic missile. Right?
@@ODDnanref It is a refeference. Look up "I'm attacking the darkness"
@@ODDnanref since action surge is part of this build take blind fighting fighting style and that’s not a problem.
@@joelsasmad
Ah, missed the reference but it is funny.
Guess there will be a lot people with Shield Brooches out there.
My gm gave me a staff of magic missiles that when used as a focus swapped the damage die to a d6.
I ran the entire campaign only casting magic missiles, and ran it as a wizard who only knew the "real spells that mattered."
Counter spell. Shield. Fly. Magic missile
so you chose to become an attack helicopter?
@@Onkelcuno ahahahahahaaaaa 🤣👌🤣🤣
Frieren/Fern build lol
One of my players found a wand of magic missiles. He calls it his emergency shotgun. He only every uses it to spend all the charges at once, typically in a dire situation or to finish off a boss.
Bet he was a bad mf, anyway
Now I want an Aarakocra Missiler named A-10 Warthog because missiler go brrrrrt.
Pronounced "Ayton War-Thog"
@@carsonrush3352 nah, Ayton is from a tribe where you get callsigns, and Aytons is "warthog"
I'm Canadian so it will have to be called the CF-18 Hornet and it can only cast 1st level magic missiles.
@@TreantmonksTemple sorry to hear that. 😞
🤔@@benjaminholcomb9478
Perfect for a Frieren-inspired character, where the only spells you need are the basic attack and defense (Shield). Throw in Fly and you too can take a journey to Heaven to give your last respects
I hadn't even thought of that, and it's absolutely beautiful. That's definitely my weakness. If a character told me they wanted to make a character inspired by Fern and run a magic missile optimized build, I would probably not be able to say no. Unless they did it because they found this comment, in which case, I WILL find out and there WILL be Hell to pay, you absolute goblin! >:P
@@RaethFennecAnd then you are still a 17th level Wizard so you can just pull out a big fuck you spell at any time.
When that 300+ DMG popped on the screen, I hit rewind to hear the explanation again. lol
I always thought Jeremy Crawford’s ruling on Magic Missile was really weird. Now that I’ve seen the exact rule he’s referencing, it makes way more sense.
If you hit 5 creatures with a Fireball, you don’t roll damage 5 different times, you roll damage once. Same thing applies to Magic Missile.
Exactly. Now a small change to magic missile wording would wreck the interaction, I'm curious if that will happen with the 2024 PHB
@@TreantmonksTempleI really hope that the interaction stays, and that it is clarified to work this way (or alternatively allowing multiple rolls like in BG3 but with the bonus applied every time), in particular for the empowered evocation / overchannel bonus. IIUC the warlock 1 level dip for this will be a thing of the past with 2024 rules anyway, and action surge will also not work anymore for spells.
It’s the same fireball that is hitting multiple targets. These are separate darts. The ruling still makes 0 sense. It even says “a dart does 1d4 damage” and not something like “roll 1d4 damage, each dart does that much damage to its target”
@@lelandwhitehead56 following the logic from this ruling it would mean Eldritch Blast beams also should be all rolled with one die, which I think is not commonly understood as RAW.
And referring JC’s second point, he seems to be wrong there too because obviously it does matter, rolling once results in higher damage variance which is relevant in a short term (fight lasting just a few rounds). That’s why rules generally specify how you handle eg. critical hits (roll all damage dice twice, not: double result of the dice).
Me who just finished a run of BG three with what is affectionately referred to as the real gale rail gun
Magic missile.
The magic item that lets him cast magic missile, but give him an additional dart.
And an item that adds a D4 lightning damage
It was insane to say the least
I just played a similar build on Gale, but with Evoker 10 (+6 INT from the mirror) and the spellmight gloves that add a d8 to damage in exchange for an irrelevant-5 to hit (from the quest where you find the clown's body parts). I brought the [SPOILER] dragon in the final fight from 380 all the way down to 20 HP in a single turn :3
You could also go Tempest 2 to maximise the 1d4 for a little extra damage (+13.5 on average). Or, of course, the all mighty fighter 2 dip.
@@_mosscat The Spellmight Gloves do not apply their bonuses to Magic Missile, as they don't count as an attack roll, (I think they did work with MM in the first few months after release, but they fixed the interaction.)
Lightning Charges, Callous Glow Ring, and Phalar Aluve Melody: Shriek all add damage to Magic Missile. Psychic Spark necklace adds +1 missiles to every MM cast. If you want to see something really crazy, have your Gale cast Artistry of War.
This is the video I've been waiting for. I'm the one who asked you if I can magic missile on my artificer list through the lorehold background as it allows you to add one first level spell from the cleric or wizard list. And man! What a shame! Thank you for your consistent uploads. They're incredibly informative. Magic missile happens to be one of my favorite spells, so I hope if there's ever another Artificer class added in the future (oh wait no, its supposed to be backwards compatible lol), it gets it. Although I'm pretty sure the goblin hex wizard probably will always get the most out of it.
Subtle spell shield has never looked so jucy before.
I really like this idea since most builds that focus on a singular thing dont do anything else. This is for 95% of campaigns just a straightforward wizard with a hexdip, wich also provides other useful things.
subtle spell is the sexiest metamagic, not even for the uncounterspellablility, just for being able to do any of your magic stuff without any suspicion from being in public or talking to someone
15:52 As far as I know, there is no single creature with multiple reactions that can take more than one reaction in a turn. All the ones I can think of say "X creature can take up to 3 reactions in a round, but no more than once per turn."
Yeah, you're right, I guess I should have looked that up
not that far into the video yet, but the hydra has multiple reaction it can use in a turn
edit: made it that far into the video, hydra is irrelevant
@spiceyicey For clarity, he was talking about creatures with multiple reactions counterspelling twice on a turn.
"For each head the hydra has beyond one, it gets an extra reaction that can be used only for opportunity attacks."
The hydra can use multiple reactions in a turn, but not for counterspelling
@@The_Crimson_Witch
Hydra with war caster feat, oh god.
Not relevant to the discussion. Just random nightmare
@@ODDnanref the DMG has rules for giving monsters class levels.
Tiny build note, you flag the minimum CHA to mulitclass out of Warlock, but not the minimum DEX or STR to multiclass into Fighter. Otherwise 10/10 video. Fantastic as always.
Nice eye, but regular viewers would know, it's a half plate build, go for 14dex
True. I assumed 14 Dex was a given. Never assume.
@@ElManReborn616 ew gross half plate
@@trynnicus Excuse me?
I’ll say something that technically counts as homebrew but not the worst choice, with Fizbans released there’s now gem dragons in 5e, ask your DM if your Draconic bloodline sorcerer could be a Amethyst dragonic bloodline sorcerer using the Gem Dragonborn subrace option this says its damage resistance is force damage and should work with magic missile.
How does this work with magic missile? Do you mean you are resistant to them?
This video seems focused on dealing more damage with magic missile. I may of missed something, can you explain further please.
@@arcanerecovery2567Draconic Sorcs can add Cha Mod when they roll damage for their type.
@@arcanerecovery2567
Elemental Affinity
Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of the type associated with your draconic ancestry, add your Charisma modifier to one damage roll of that spell. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to that damage type for 1 hour.
Are you guys confusing the ancestry you get from your class with the ancestry you get from your race?
These are not interchangeable. The class feature allows you to pick from color or chromatic options on the class list provided. This does not work with the racial gem amethyst feature since the racial choices don't appear on the class list of valid options.
@@arcanerecovery2567
Which is why they mentioned it would take Homebrew to add Gem Dragon Ancestry to Draconic Sorcerer.
Which makes sense as Gem Dragon is now a Draconic Ancestry
With the "Shavarran Birch (FORCE) Imbued Wood Focus" you can add a +1 bonus to one damage roll of the spell of the same damage type. So you can squeeze out an additional +1 Force damage for each Magic Missile dart. (Source: Eberron: Rising from the Last War p. 277)
Magic missile doesn’t use a focus
@thunder_bug_1451 Well shoot, that's a good point. I missed that.
@thunder_bug_1451 nothing says you can't use a focus for a spell that doesn't require one.
@@zombieninjapitbull3856that's the whole point of the war caster feat.
“Can use as a spellcasting focus” does not mean “have to” If my Artificer has an open magic item slot, I plan to make/acquire one of these.
I know its not much, but the Shavarran Birch Wand actually adds an additional +1 damage to the rolls of a spell that uses force damage, so that would give you a little bit more bang for your buck. Plus its a common magic item so DM’s might be even more willing to give them out, or maybe even let you start with one.
I've long considered MM a utility spell for things like breaking concentration. I knew the Evoker trick, but hadn't delved into how far it can be taken. Very impressive!
interesting point of order, how is MM damage treated in this case with regards to concentration checks? if you're hitting with 10x darts each doing a d4+6, are you rolling 10 con saves against a DC10, or 1 con save against a DC35(+)?
@@Tesseract4D2 each missile is its own instance of damage, just like a creature with multi attack gets multiple rolls.
Traditionally, that's what I used MM for, breaking concentration.
@@ChristnThmsbut the spell says all darts hit simultaneously 🤔
@@stortrut they're still separate sources of damage. We can be sure of this because they're independently targetable.
If they can hit 3 separate targets, then they're separate instances of damage.
Edit- likewise, Eldritch Blast, Scorching Ray, Animated Objects, and probably a few I didn't think of.
@@ChristnThms but if we target only one target, one could just as likely rule that since “they hit simultaneously” it’s only one source of damage. Unless I’m missing something. But either way, I’ll probably rule it as having to make multiple con saves because that’s just more fun lol.
Reliable. If only to slightly crank up damage, Aasimar or Goblin can add PB damage but only once to one target per turn. Not to the damage roll as you clarify in the video.
For the build at the end, you also need 13+ in either DEX or STR. Speaking of that build, I would personally start as a fighter (heavy armor proficiency, second wind early to help with survivability, plus CON saves for concentration once you get spells later on), then take your hexblade dip at level 3, just to get the spark of magic needed to become the apprentice of the party's mage, and then move on to taking wizard levels for the rest of your adventuring career.
15:18 Shavarran Birch Focus is a common magic item it will add nearly 100 damage to this first round. It’s Eberron - Rising book: “When you cast a damage-dealing spell using this item as your spellcasting focus, you gain a +1 bonus to one damage roll of the spell.” Each type of wood is a different “extra-planar energy” Shavarran Birch is +1 Force.
He did address focii in this video. TECHNICALLY, an arcane focus can only be used for spells that have a zero gold material component, since they directly replace that material component. Since Magic Missile doesn't list Material as one of its components, then TECHNICALLY anything that lists casting a spell through a focus does not apply.
That being said, I've never seen literally anybody play this way and I had to pause the video to go verify that it was actually true when he said it.
I’d also want to mention a related combo is Jim’s Magic Missile and Hex. Jim’s is 3 attacks at 1st level. IIRC you can sub it in for normal magic missile on your list but they’re not mutually exclusive so you can learn both.
6d4+3d6 with critical potential of 15d4+6d6.
Higher risk but absolutely a joy when you have advantage.
Jim's MM is so so good
Jim's makes me nervous though because you bring luck into the equation
@@TreantmonksTemple That's what a 3 level dip into Assassin Rogue and Elven Accuracy are for. I once made a build for it, but was too ashamed to ever play it.
@@danielwitmer3655never assume Elvish Accuracy will help. I once played an Elf Samurai with Elvish Accuracy in a level 15 game (I'm a D&D Mercenary and occasionally get calls to sub in for a PC) and managed to roll 9 consecutive natural 1s. DM let me just go home at that point.
@@BR4IN1N4J4R>plays game with luck, uses thing that makes bad luck less likely
>bad luck still happens anyways
>elven accuracy bad
I used to find Magic Missile boring... then I played a Rune Knight who could do some amazing things when they hit, but went through a 4 hours session hitting nothing, failing every save and only passing 1 ability check...
Now I truly understand the value of magic missile. Sometimes the 15AC, 5hp monster just need to be yeeted
I did spend some time trying to make a build out of a draconic sorc 6 / celestial warlock 6 / scribe wizard 8, since I didn't want to depend on the hexblades 1 target / short rest. While it is limited to 4th lvl magic missiles and fire immune enemies are super scary, they still hit pretty hard (avg 81 damage) and are not limited to 1 target / short rest. Higher level spell slots can be converted to more 4th lvl magic missiles. More consistency and less burst.
So Celestial Warlock and Draconic Sorcerer both add Charisma mod. Does that mean it's added twice?
@@rallaa941 Yes, since they are different features, they do stack. So a 4th level magic missiles with 20 charisma would be (1d4+1+5+5)x6
magic missile is important to make evocation makes sense at all at higher levels I think. I like that in BG3 even though the missiles have multiple rolls, still the damage bonus is applied for each missile. I hope this stays and is clarified further to be a special advantage for evokers in 2024 rules
I'm only 5:13 into the video but what i got out of it is that lvl.9 magic missile plus HBC is called Magic Orbital Strike
I've read of some wizards creating a Simulacrum for the extra counterspell per round to help make sure the missiles don't get intercepted.
This is the classic Nuclear Wizard build made by LudicSavant in GitP forums. The guy is a gem.
I think it’s very amusing how all these other possibilities were thrown around but the best ends up being evocation wizard with action surge and hex blades curse.
Sometimes the classic is a classic for a reason
im loving this series of optimization and interaction with specific spells, like this and magic missile. looking forward to the next one!
very good build. 10/10. You've gotten SO much better at making build videos btw. I remember some of your previous builds were so much more drawn out than this but this video has a great pace and I love the gimmick. I will be building this character.
I sincerely feel that not including Magic Missile on the class list for the Artillerist was an act of cowardice.
Thanks Treantmonk- this is such a cool presentation for your build. Great job man!
Remember that with 5 levels in Alchemist and the feat Artificer Initiate, you can add you intelligence modifier to the damage of the magic missile, IF you can change its damage type into fire* (and the scribe can). It still won't add up to your numbers here... but with a few scribe levels, some sorcerer/warlock levels to top up those fiery magic missiles... You can laugh while shooting magic missiles that deal 70-100 damage per casting from the safety of... through your awakened spellbook :)
*Because the wording of the Alchemist artificers ability is:
Whenever you cast a spell using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell. That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid, fire, necrotic, or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifie
And the artiicer initiate feat allows you to:
gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
I did the maths on this a while ago and came to the same conclusions you did.
While some other class abilities seem good for magic missile the issue is its not worth all the multiclassing it takes to make them work, and they fall short on damage anyways. Put simply the best boosts you can get are hexblade and 10th level evoker. overchannel is nice for making the 5th level slots better but an overchanneled 5th level slot doesnt best hexblades curse and empowered evocation on a higher level magic missile.
The spirits bard one is tempting but youd have to ask your dm to drop the focus faff because we all know that rule is dumb and inconsistent, but at that point you arent gaining as much as you might think and the other aspects of your build suffer for it, such as being able to cast ninth level spells ever for example.
The fighter addition does add more burst damage for sure, personally I thought just going 1 level of hexblade with straight wizard was a superior build because you get 9th level slots sooner and have more high level slots overall to use the combo more through the day. The obvious pitfalls to the build idea are youre talking about bursting a single target, but tbh the damage isn't awful once you have empowered evocation versus targets without hexblades curse so you can kind of rely on it more from level 11 for general use. Maybe going fighter 2 after level 11 is a good shout, but it might depend on what levels youre going to be having important fights since youre delaying higher level spells.
Overall I like warlock 1 wizard 19 better because its basically a full caster with concentration free to use, so you can just play as a regular wizard while blasting once your concentration spell is up.
Spirit board basically doesn’t work with the current limitations, so I think that’s a good area for DM fix
Love the video, great idea! My DM will flip when I explain this to her, haha.
Btw, did anyone else notice Harry Dresden at 4:49? 😁
I've been cackling like mad throughout this vid. I _love_ Magic Missile, and people keep sleeping on on it for some reason. Thanks for highlighting Magic Missile!
Unfortunately, not a single DM I've played with goes by the One Damage die for all missiles. I've been required to roll damage for each missile separately.
I did so too, but only because I didn't knew better. Now that I've seen this, I would allow it. Maybe show those DMs this video
I have a wizard in my group and let him choose at the start of the campaign if he wanted to roll once or a fist full of d4s. He chose to roll multiple times. Granted, he's not running a build like this, but I feel like the DM should let the player choose which way they want to roll.
@@83ericp out of curiosity, why should the DM let the player choose if the rules unequivocally explain how it works? That's the same as saying "DMs should allow players to choose how this or that ability works" - nothing wrong with homebrew, but that's how it should go
@@limaTheNoob because it’s ambiguous enough that it required sage advice to explain how it works.
@@limaTheNoobneither change the damage average so in theory neither does more damage without building around the raw version, but the damage is more versatile, so it can be frustrating rolling a 1 and makes the spell a bit more unreliable (obv still pretty good, but could be more consistent) which kinda goes against the flavor of the spell that never misses, so it should be as consistent as it can be
I built a missile mage too! I love Magic Missile. Its a Scribe Wizard multiclass Hexblade Warlock. Scribe wizard can switch damage types, so you can shoot vulnerabilities for double damage. And with warlock spellslots I can short rest and have two more spell slots to blast; plus arcane recovery.
Evocation Wizard abusing of Magic Missiles is really fun, I have played many wizards reling on this option as they best weapon
Protip: always cast Magic Missiles at 60ft at the target to cast Counterspell if the enemy cast Shield
Another tip is to hide behind full cover and use the eyes of your familiar to cast Magic Missiles hidden like a coward
Edit for a third tip: buy many Magic Missile Wands as you can, doesn't requires attunement and can be cheap
The second tactic has a problem, seeing using your familiar senses is an action, so unless you have action surge or something like that, you can't cast magic missile in the same turn.
@@adriel8498 Absolutly, I usually use this before entering combat when I have the opportunity
Cast silence on the enemy and have your fighter grapple and drag them back into the silenced area.
You would still need a clear path to the target for your second tip, even if you can see the target from elsewhere.
@@kedraroth Unfortunately that doesn't quite work. Find Familiar says "as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn" So you would need to quicken the magic missile for it to work because you have to use your action to see through the familiar. I did have fun with a build like this recently with a Sorcerer quickening Shatter from the other side of a wall
I remember having arguments about how Magic Missile works, or more accurately how people "felt" it should work. Many of my fellow players/dungeons masters in my group felt like this interaction was not intuitive and gamebreaking.
Very in depth and I love it. This analysis is perfect in calculating total single target damage. However, I think it neglects some points on “total damage”. For example, on Fury of the Small it would add the proficiency bonus once if all missiles hit the same target. However, Fury of the Small’s wording doesn’t limit the effect to one target. So if you were targeting multiple larger targets you would do more net damage than if you targeted 1 target with all missiles because you would add the proficiency to *each target*. This is in contrast to bardic Magical Inspiration which clearly says “choose a target” so it would net the same on 1 or more targets.
Thank you. I've looked at mm optimization before, but got lost in the sauce. I finally understand.
With the new FTD Gem Dragonborn it would be cool if you could pick Amethyst for your Draconic Ancestry. I don't think it works but that would let you add your charisma to the roll as well, wouldn't it?
I'd say that sounds like a generally reasonable homebrew. While Magic Missile gains... Force Damage happens on fewer spells, and fewer enemies deal force damage to you. You also couldn't use Transmuted Spell for versatility, since Force isn't on the list. Overall, I think you'd be at a disadvantage compared to other Draconic Ancestry except for Magic Missile.
Meanwhile, an Evoker wizard can do essentially the same thing in terms of Magic Missile damage, so I don't think it'd be particularly broken. It lets someone have Sorcerer vibes rather than Wizard vibes, and do something similar. While technically possible to combine both, having both a High Charisma and High Intelligence can be costly, and Sorc 6, Wizard 10, Hexblade 1, Warrior 2 has a lot more gaps than Sorc/Wizard 16 would have, due to less access to actual high level spells.
Yet more proof hexblade could use a rewrite. Probably action surge as well. If we switch to one D&D, it will be because of little interactions like this.
The latest playtest Action Surge does have this nerf, which probably will be published in the 2024 PH. You cannot take the "Magic" action with it, so no casting spells. Hexblade is a different problem, and I hope they address it directly, but it doesn't look like it will be in the 2024 PH, as it wasn't in any of the Playtest material. That said, they moved all the subclasses for Warlock to trigger at 3rd level, not 1st.
I made one recently I called the Combo King. I rolled together several of these combos. Magic missile, the scorching ray trick, and darkness advantage. Divine soul sorcerer for con prof and eventual spirit shroud, and mm of course. 2 levels of hex blade for hex plus eldritch blast, agonizing blast, and devils sight. Back to sorcerer to get 2nd level scorching ray. 2 levels of fighter for action surge. The rest sorcerer. Be a bug bear for that extra 2d6 per attack roll for your attack rolls when you win initiative. Concentrate on darkness and attack at advantage, enemies usually at disadvantage or do spirit shroud when they absolutely need to be caporized. Quicken eldritch blast with agonizing blast regardless of the base combo you choose. This guy is great at all levels.
I have never played a character that had access to Magic Missile, but i really want to now . Thanks for a great and very informative video. Love your channel ❤
been using this for a while
i love the visual
As a DM, I can see at least four places where I'd say "Hold on, no, it doesn't work like that."
Interesting analysis. This is definitely something to 'talk to your DM' about before doing it. :o)
Also note that even if your DM rules that you roll separately for each missile… Hexblades Curse and Action Surge still work, so if your PB is +5 and you’re using 5th level slots, that’s still (7d4 +7 +35) averaging 60 force damage, no rolls no saves, twice in one turn
Dude… as a gm, I have never had a player at my table like you. Haha. I think I would love it as much as I hate it. Great vid!
I love ALL Treantmonk videos!
This is near identical to the character I've been playing for a bit, only the build path is different.
I started with 1 level of fighter, 1 level hexblade, then 10 levels of evocation wizard, 2nd level of fighter, and wizard the rest of the way. Started the game at level 3 with an 18 AC and the Shield spell, which makes for a pretty decently tanky wizard right off the bat!
Nice to have a classic, hard core optimization video again.
I remember discussing this exact point with other players with Magic Missile's one damage roll for hitting multiple targets and how it works with an Evocation Wizard's Empowered Evocation ability. I've always agreed that the RAI interpretation to roll multiple dice is typically the way to go, but the RAW allows for this to be a possible means of play. A lot of people denied it; this video proves it.
I played an Alchemist Artificer/Scribes Wizard through Light of Xaryxis. Change Magic Missile to fire, acid, necrotic, or poison and grab the Artificer Initiate feat so any Intelligence-based spell you cast can use an artisan's tool as a focus (choose Alchemist's Supplies). Alchemical Savant doesn't require Artificer spells like Arcane Firearm does.
You can easily add Hexblade 1, and/or stack Draconic Ancestry if you're not going with necrotic damage. It gets MAD though, and limits you to lower level Scribes type-changing, but with serious damage for low level slots. Disintegrate-like damage with a 2nd level slot is not nothing, though more Wizard levels may be better overall for other spells.
I suggest an alchemist 5 / scribe wizard 2 combo.
When you multiclass a wizard, you choose for your spellbook magic missile and at least another level 1 spell which deals fire, acid, necrotic or poison damage.
Use the awekened spellbook feature to change the force damage of the magic missile in the damage of the other spell.
This will trigger the alchemical savant feature, adding your intelligence modificer to each dart.
The only disadvantage is that magic missile's damage is no force anymore, so be careful to resistamces and immunities.
Since you need your spellbook and alchemist's supplies together for thie combo, ask your DM if the spellbook can count as alchemist's supplies (for example, your spellbook contains your alchemist's recipes).
great content and a nicely constructive video
Don’t forget Shavarran Birch Focus (+1 to force damage).
Definite miss on the nuance of the damage roll rules interaction at the beginning. There are abilities like Twinned Spell Metamagic that specifically reference the ability of a spell to affect multiple creatures in theory. If the damage rolls section wanted to be interpreted in the same way, it would say that. It says "WHEN a spell deals damage to more than one creature" not "IF a spell is able to deal damage to more than one creature".
Plus, rolling Xd4 for one creature and Xd4 allocated to multiple creatures, is still rolling the damage once. You're not repeating damage rolls in either case, like you would be if you were to roll 8d6 multiple times for each creature caught in a Fireball. And the damage rolls section was clearly written with spells like Fireball in mind to reduce the need to roll 8d6 4 or 5 times.
And using Rules as Crawford is dubious especially post 2019. The Sage Advice Compendium was created as an official ruling compendium specifically to disavow wild and controversial Twitter rulings. Things left out of the Sage Advice Compendium were done that way on purpose and the Magic Missile ruling is nowhere to be found in there. Crawford has personally disavowed all of his rules tweets that didn't make it into the Sage Advice Compendium and has also gone on record saying that he has numerous versions of the rules floating in his head at all times.
This is a poor ruling from an intuitive perspective, a RAW perspective, a RAI perspective, and a game health/balance perspective as it allows a single player to hit deadly bosses for all or most of their HP in a single turn.
P.S. The real deciding factor for how many dice you roll is how you interpret "A dart deals 1d4+1 damage to its target". This most strongly lends itself to each dart gets its own damage roll, seeing as its referring to each dart individually. Contrast that to something like "Roll 1d4+1. All darts deal that much damage to their targets," or "All darts deal 1d4+1 damage."
I'm 100% with you on that... When a fireball hits 5 targets it's still a single fireball, so a single roll that affects every target. Magic Missile upcasted to strike at 5 targets does produce 5 different projectiles. It is logical to roll damage for each projectile.
That doesn’t change this mechanic. When targeting a single creature with multiple darts, it doesn’t matter mathematically if one rolls each d4 separately; HbC and Evoker damage is multiplied by the number of darts.
@@DukeTrout Level 10 Evoker feature limits itself to 1 damage roll of a spell. If there are multiple rolls (as there should be), it only applies to 1 of them.
Hexblade's Curse does still apply. But at least that one has some limitations that make it somewhat reasonable (30 foot range to apply, once per short rest, only 1 creature). Not being able to double it up with the Evoker feature makes this one much less of a problem (although it probably should be limited to 1 damage roll per turn to make it more balanced).
@@jeffreybond5796 You’re changing it to what you think it should be, not RAW or RAI. Manage your games however you want, but don’t tell others how to manage theirs.
@@DukeTrout What I said about Evoker's 10th level feature is straight up RAW.
I went very in depth on the RAW and RAI of Evoker Magic Missile in my first post and how it has evolved over the lifespan of the game (from producing a Tweet saying one thing, to then disavowing all Tweets not in the SAC, and finally never making the original Tweet official). I didn't change or twist anything. I just presented analysis that you don't like, but can't refute.
And there's a difference between analyzing what the RAW and RAI are, and telling people how to run their games. Do whatever you want in your games. You are free to ignore both RAW and RAI. I never told you how to run your game or swapped out any rules text I didn't like when analyzing things.
Would only rolling once apply to scorching ray as well? Would the lack of "simultaneously" in the spell description be the difference?
Tiefling; Warlock[Celestial 6]/Sorcerer[Draconic] 6 / Wizard[Scribe 2] /Fighter 2; You swap it to Fire damage, and add +CHA and +INT to damage rolls. Hex is a touch more user friendly, but this beats it out in an adventuring day as Hex is one guy during a rest. Tiefling because you can pick up the feat, Flames of Phlegethos. Which lets you reroll a 1 on the dice.
Oh man am I going to enjoy playing this
Im running a high level magic heavy war where magic missile is basically the machine gunners bread and butter. Countered by shield spells, it’s an unfortunate world to be in if you run out of shield spells first
Well, I was planning on making a magic missile only character. Thanks for helping me choose the classes lol.
There's a campaign I play in that predates Scribes Wizard being published, so my character concept has me playing LoreMaster Wizard. One of my go-to ways of dealing with multiple enemies is using a 1st level slot for Alchemical Casting on a Magic Missile upcast to level 2 or higher. Given how many melee Player Characters there are in that campaign, it's typically way more practical than a Fireball. If anything, Fireballs have gotten thrown at single targets more often than at groups of enemies, since my 1st level slots are my most precious.
I can't tell you how sad I was when I found out that the Artillerist feature couldn’t work with this. I was so excited at the possibility of an Artillerist 5/Hexblade 1/Evoker 14 build that could deal 168 automatic damage with an action.
Edit: Dangit, late to the party...
Imbued wood focus (Shavarran Birch) is a common magic item that grants "+1 bonus to one damage roll of the spell, provided the damage is of the type associated with the item's wood." That is a huge bang for buck factor with this concept.
i always wanted a wand slinger of Magic Missile. Old west style, opens his cloak and he is just stacked with a bandolier of wands.
Another excellent production! Fighter dip for action surge stays winning !
Strixhaven BACKGROUNDS (not the feats) add spells to your class list. However, none of them have magic missile.
Hey Chris, how does magic missile interact with breaking concentration? Does it count as a 1 tap or a triple tap (at first level)?
Thank you for the video!
Question: do you count each missiles damage for concentration checks or total damage if you hit one target with multiple missiles. It’s come up recently and both sides seem to have a point.
Excellent optimancy
Great video as always, Chris! It's insane that you can do so much damage with MM even without multiclassing if you go Evocation Wizard. However, I think it's a little too broken to my taste. I really hope they change the wording of MM on the 2024 PH.
One thing i dont see people mentioning alot is Bestow curse, it adds 1d8 necrotic damage to your spell's damage- while it doesnt say damage roll, it still works anyways because its not a once per turn effect, you add a d8 each time the magic missile hits
There's been a lot of debate on this one, as it uses the same effect as Concentration rolls for getting hit by MM. Since it says they hit at the same time, and it's a single additive damage roll, would you only roll a single D8 and force a single Con check, or one per missile. MM as a Mage slayer seems like it would be insane, as it would just be a single fire, no save, force three con checks button for a level one slot. If you go that route, just recall that the baddies can as well.
I love the idea of a sorcerer that can move spell slots around with sorcery points can cast MM a LOT lol. (Sure only at lvl5, but that's still a lot of MM)
In the final build wouldn't be batter to start fighter for profiency in armor and con save?
That's exactly what I did when I put together this same build months ago lol
Perfect. I have a multiclass 8 bard/hexblade 1 and our group has a wand of magic missiles that i think i will need to borrow.
Treating "Magic Missile hits multiple or a single target" and "Fireball hits multiple or a single target" exactly the same sounds so simple, yet it was my biggest brain-breaker here.
So if your table allows partnered content, specifically the tal'dorai campaign setting reborn, then from 11th level onwards you could take the spell driver feat to be able to cast 2 levelled spells, 1 as an action, 1 as a bonus action, so long as 1 of those spells is only 1st or 2nd level
Although it does require a saving throw to apply and technically is touch (a good wizard knows many ways around that), I believe Bestow Curse works with Magic Missile. It triggers every time they're damaged by your attacks *or spells* (not spell attacks) and basically does an extra 1D8 per missile, but you would roll each die separately since each die is a separate trigger of damage (like how it works with/against concentration). Though because of the way it's worded I don't know if it stacks with Hexblade's Curse or not since Hexblade's curse is already applied to that damage, even though it's of a different type, my guess would be no. But Bestow Curse allows for custom curses, so technically you could make a custom one that "works rules as written".
I honestly think Bestow Curse is a really cool and fun spell, the only thing is I wish there was a feature to make it permanent through repeated and/or group casting rather than only with a 9th level spell slot, and that multiple curses can be active at once on a creature, even if it's just 1 per caster. I like to imagine that if a party member is really ticked off at an NPC in town, they can just visit them every day for a month or so casting and keeping concentration on Bestow Curse giving them just general misfortune or constant hiccups. Better than dreaming of going back and casting once they get 9th level spell slots.
Also items like the Dragon Touched Focus work with Scribes Wizards. Fire a fire Magic Missile and add 1D6 to your damage roll. Though with the Dragon Touched Focus's, I wonder if you can be attuned to multiple as long as their different tiers, Rare Very Rare and Legendary, may or may not technically be a way to add 3D6 using all your attunement slots. Not worth it, but cool idea.
I do hope that items and features requiring you to use it as your focus for a spell goes away, most spells I want items or features to interact with don't have a material component or it has a gold cost so they can't. Feels like a glitch that was never patched, especially for Bards.
The other thing that should work, as far as metamagic is concerned, is empowered spell. Rerolling low rolls can help boost your consistency, and in turn, your averages. Since you're only rolling 1 damage die, you don't need a higher charisma modifier to get more dice rerolled, and it only costs 1 sorcery point. Plus, even with just a small dip into sorcerer, it only uses a bonus action to make more sorcery points, and a high level caster has a bunch of low level spell slots to burn to keep that going
You can take a 3 level dip as a Rogue Thief for Fast Hands to use a wand of MM as a BA after unleashing MM as an action.
Out of the box option: Hexblade 1 or Celestial Warlock 6, Draconic Sorcerer 6, Wildfire Druid 6, Scribes Wizard 2
1d4+1d8+10 per missile
Transmute Magic Missile to Fire, add +5 from Warlock, +5 from Draconic, +d8 from Wildfire
I had a warlock fighter wizard with a bag containing three wands of Magic Missle. Oh, so many a dragon was shot down from the skies!
Would fury of the small add to each die if each was against a different target?
hate to break it, but in Tal'Dorei Reborn, they add a feat that lets you cast multiple leveled spells, provided one of them is below a certain level cap. it's called Spelldriver, and makes it so if you can bonus action cast, you can still cast leveled spells.... as long as only one of them is 3rd level or higher. so you could cast a high level Magic Missile, then quickened spell a 2nd level right after with Metamagic Adept feat and taking that metamagic.
Excellent video as always, but definitely one that I'd look at for 3 seconds at my table and give a big nope.
By RAW the damage rolls on 196 say "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them."
Exactly as written this means it MUST deal damage to more than one target, because it doesn't say "If a spell or other effect CAN deal damage to more than one..." only if it does; then roll just once. Magic Missile only deals damage to one target if it's shot by all the darts, so by RAW we don't roll the damage once. In this strict interpretation we would get the intuitive Xd4+X roll.
This doesn't affect the result much, it just means your multiplier must be 1 lower as you must always spend at least 1 missile on something else besides the main target to get that "roll damage once" effect.
I have literally DMd for this build before. It is wild. He had a simulacrum as well so at level 20 round 1 against boss's he'd crank out 600+ damage.
Break down the simplest spell to become a master. Very nice.
Awesome vid!
This is great from Crawford. Rolling more dice is almost always more fun.
The artificer artillerist 5th level ability says you can turn a wand into your arcane firearm so what if you turn a wand of magic missile into your arcane firearm would the effect then work since it's being fired through your arcane firearm?
A very, very small addition to the damage you can get is finding an Imbued Wood Focus using a Shavarran branch, a Common rarity item from ERLW. Though it uses attunement, it adds +1 to one damage roll for any spell you cast as long as it's force damage. Though a very, very small boost, boosts are boosts, and anyone can use it at any level. And 1d4+2 base damage certainly beats 1d4+1. It won't be compatible with the Wand of Magic Missiles, though...