If you like what I do and would consider supporting this channel through Patreon: www.patreon.com/Treantmonkstemple If you would like to know how I calculate damage or how baseline damage is determined, I go through it in this video: ruclips.net/video/zg0bAl1WPGQ/видео.html Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:52 What to fix 5:10 What to avoid 9:38 Martial Arts fixes 13:31 Hit die fix 13:56 Ki fixes 15:46 Quickened healing fix 16:52 Stunning strike fix 17:42 Stillness of mind fix 19:28 Timeless body fix 20:28 Empty body fix 20:56 Perfect self fix 21:36 Review 24:10 DPR analysis My 11 fixes for the Monk: Hit die d10 Martial arts allows light or medium armor Martial arts die(dice): d6, d8, 2d6, 3d6 Ki DC is based on dexterity Step of the wind doesn’t have a resource cost Quickened healing costs 1 ki point Stunning Strike has a limited resource pool, then costs ki Stillness of Mind now works as it should (The intent here is your bonus action is still available) Timeless body recovers a level of exhaustion on a short rest Empty Body is a bonus action Perfect self now adds +4 to Dexterity and Constitution
Question: If I make any monk builds using your suggested changes, and post it on DM's Guild, I would like to credit you in its creation on the intro., if that sounds good to you sir! You really hit the nail on the head on this one
i think wisdom and dexterity for perfect self is fine, actually. Barbarians can actually use a shield in combat, so they can have that much AC as well, plus they get 40 extra HP at level 20. I think the monk could actually do with that much AC. In my opinion it fits best thematically as well. If you look at characters in movies that are often compared to monks, they usually dodge and block strikes incredibly well, so having at least the same AC as a barbarian seems fair.
@@nilsjonsson4446 My lv 9 Bladesinging Wizard can reach 30 AC by activating Bladesong, casting Haste, and then follow up cast Shield. I'm sure it's fine to boost Monk's AC more.
@@RisenRen with godly 20 dex&int stats and +1 armor - yes, you can reach 30 ac. In AL games I had 20 with bladesong and 25 with shield. At 10th lv. Anyways - yes, it is fine. People are so scared of hight AC, but they foregot that there are AOE effects and other things that kill characters. Only one thing that I would change is not to increase hit dice. D8 is literally fine
@@Kivuhl He has 20 dex and 18 int to hit 30. Mage Armor: 13+5(dex), +1 Cloak of Protection, +2 Haste on himself, +4 Bladesong, +5 Shield casting and he’s level 9. And this character would be AL legal too.
One of the fixes I made for monk was to allow them to use Wisdom in place of Constitution for HP everytime they gain a level in monk. This allows you to ignore constitution making monks only need 2 good stats instead of 3. Making it only apply at levels they gain new monk level prevents multi-class abuse
This is really ingenious yet so simple. Like... wow. And here I was, planning on making my own campaign adding a few balance changes to warlock and monk. Ive contemplated multiple options (not all options would be implemented) such as adding more weapon proficincies, making the martial arts die progress faster and end up as 1d12, giving them another extra attack around 12/14 level, changing hit die to d10, maybe making a half feat that gives them a +1 to dex or wis while adding 5 Ki points and such... But that, makes me more comfortable to just adding a single change or two after making them only two attribute dependent 🤔
Hmm... feels measured and not overly complex. You have my endorsement! (But let’s be honest, anything that buffed monks would get my endorsement, even if it wasn’t measured 😛).
I am also enthusiastic about any buffs to Monk, though I've been working on a rework of my own for quite some time. Would love to hear if you like it, but more so how you can break/abuse it before I upload it publicly, especially as you like Monks and optimization. I enjoy your build videos, and am looking forward to your own thoughts on how to improve/rebalance monks. I thoroughly enjoyed your Rune Knight co-op with Treantmonk, y'all should choose another soon. Here's the share code for the Homebrewery website for my rework: /share/BA1WgiIeX
Monk needs a Riposte like feature that scales from level 1. It makes no sense that they cannot attack a creature with their reaction if the creature misses. That's the essence of martial arts.
Looooove the idea! Maybe something of the sorts of "whenever you are taking the dodge action and an enemy missies with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to make one unarmed strike against that target”? This way it synergises neatly with Patien Defense, giving it a slight offensive aspect and some extra mechanical depth, plus it can still be used with a standard dodge action. Would kinda be thematically feating.
@@aperez7922 I feel like it wouldn't even need to be while taking the dodge action, just whenever a creature misses and it uses your reaction. You're right too, it synergizes extremely well with patient defense, and also with something like Hand of Harm or Stunning Strike if the reaction attack is strictly an unarmed strike. What they could do is just treat it as an upgrade to flurry of blows: as a reaction you can make an attack, and if you spend a Ki you can make 2, then you can also apply Open Hand Techniques to it.
Agreed. There are actually a bunch of maneuvers that I feel like should be base monk abilities that you could just spend ki to use (Grappling Strike, Disarming Attack, Brace, etc.).
For thematic reasons, I would like to see something like "you can use your dexterity rather than your strength for athletics checks". The fact that monks are arguably the worst martial character for grappling is just...thematically weird. Should be a part of the martial arts ability at first level. (Not a big power level change, but I post on forums where people ask for helps with builds, and the number of people asking how to make a grappling or wrestling monk are quite high. I would like to give them that option). On your timless body change--I wonder if you could just make the monk immune to exhaustion. Obviously this would be stronger than the ranger version, but this is a 15th level feature, the ranger version is a 10th level feature, and the ranger gets a bunch of other stuff at 10th level (temp HP, bonus action one round greater invisibility).
Not all martial arts styles have a focus on holds, locks, etc., but I fully agree that monks should at least have an option to get a bonus to athletics checks made to grapple, or just be allowed to use Dexterity - Acrobatics to initiate grapple checks.
I was thinking immunity to Exhaustion was appropriate for 15th level as well, especially since it isn't a common condition but is so devastating to martial classes. We are a high level Martial artist, we don't get tired!
I agree with the grappling sentiment. For the exhaustion component I would make it so that a monk is immune to exhaustion up until level 6 (instant death). Maybe this would also be a good use for ki; the body's vital energy. A monk could spend ki to remove levels of exhaustion instead of being outright immune.
#12. Add an ASI at level 10, and proficiency in either Con or Wis saves. The 3.5 / Pathfinder monk was not a power class, either, but one cool thing it had going for it was that it was the champ at saving throws. Also, being the "perfected body" class, it doesn't make sense that it has merely bog-standard ASIs.
I'd say that level 10 is pretty far up in that range, personally I'd bump it an extra ABSI at 6th Level and hell if your feeling generous another ABSI at 10th level to give them more than fighter
Well, they do get proficiency in both those saves... in fact, all the saves. It just happens at level 14. Not ideal, but what part of the monk is, honestly?
The Diamond Soul ability needs to come of line way sooner, around level 8-9. And the later Monk features should focus on more damage dealing abilities. E.g. a flat +2 to unarmed attacks & damage at level 11, increasing to +4 at level 15. Then just up the martial art die size by 1 across the board and you've got a much more balanced class.
As an mma fighter I really like these changes. Monks are very underpowered and I have run into issues where I personally, irl, can pull off some feats my character constantly fails and it's really frustrating.
This is an under appreciated comment, especially when it comes to the very,VERY neglected Martial classes in d20’games but specifically this one. The fact of the matter is it’s relatively easy to outpace some of the martial characters IN REAL LIFE if you like, do this for a living (say a marine combatives instructor or SF instructor for example) The amount of skills and techniques that they have are ASTRONOMICAL in representation. And while the 5 e fighter is a “little” Different; say a champion fighter is literally like a regular dude. 4 attacks in 6 seconds is not really all that spectacular. The average swarm boxer is putting out twice that. And they are GOOD shots.
Saw an idea to make the scaling go from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4 then 4d4. So it is like that each attack is actually more and more small punches landing and it makes more sense much like a Rogue's Sneak Attack.
This. Increases damage minimum without getting too crazy on max damage. I also suggest on another video that stunning fist shouldn't cost ki unless the target fails their save. So it is never a bad to try, but always effective when used. Also the refund mechanic means cant use if you have zero ki.
I like the idea of scaling the martial art die by d4s. Easier to keep track of, and there is the fun of potentially being able to roll a fistful of dice (albeit small ones) when you land multiple strikes or crit.
@@jonathanchapple9651 Hmm, that might swing too far the other way though, no reason not to use it on every single attack in that case. But maybe something like one attack per turn gets the no-risk attempt, and then further attempts act as they did before? Actually, I would template it to stay the same and add something like "the first time you attempt a Stunning Strike and it fails, you may regain 1 Ki Point."
I think the best change is making step of the wind free. One of the shortcomings of monks is that they are supposed to be mobile but often don't have the ki to be as fast as rogues using their cunning action and still be effective. Even if your goal is to be a high movement DEXterity based melee striker, they fall short of rogue in terms of relying on mobility to compensate for a lack of defense and getting into range, and the ki cost of step of the wind makes rogue a drastically better 2-dip than monk for any build not wanting the unarmored defense. This will at least make it so that it has enough mobility to usually get to where it needs to be, even if it still falls short of arcane caster mobility at higher levels.
One important point about cunning action; it is specifically a bonus action for use in combat, so out of combat it doesn't provide them with a speed boost. I would also argue that thematically it doesn't actually make sense for rogues to dash with both the action and bonus action, since the idea behind cunning action is that they are good are moving quickly/stealthily/without getting hit whilst being able to do something else at the same time, not that they are able to move much faster than everyone else. However actually enforcing this would be a house rule and I don't think rogues need a nerf.
I don't understand this. Not gonna say this is the way things should be, but rogues get a 30 foot move speed, and a bonus action dash for 60. Monks get an up to 60 foot move speed with a 120 foot bonus action dash. I think it makes sense it costs a resource over rogues, it becomes significantly better. Monks don't need a free ba dahs because they get the same movement but without the bonus action.
@@lordderppington4694 That's just dash, though. You could easily fix this by saying "You can use a bonus action to move an additional 30 on your turn" or something. The real problem is *disengage*. You get in melee, you're basically trapped wailing away at one person. If there's a bunch of enemies with overlapping and adjacent reaches that basically form a wall? You aren't getting through there without using ki. The rogue though? *Easily*
@@StarryxNight5 That's much more reasonable, though still. You get a 60 foot disengage, compared to the rogues 30. It feels like the rogue gets good free abilities, while the monk gets better but costly abilities, which I'd honestly be ok with, if the entire class wasn't propped up on flurry and stunning strike. If flurry becomes free, or stunning strikes becomes decoupled from ki (someone suggested = to prof bonus) all of a sudden you have triple the ki to use, and things like a ba dash or disengage become affordable. I think the problem isn't that monks are slow, or can't disengage, or have too few ki points. It's that literally every single part if their kit is tied to a pool of 5 points for 90% of players.
My favorite fix would be scaling the number of unarmed strikes you get with flurry of blows/martial arts, not just scaling the die type. It feels more thematic with the class and is simple enough to remember. Really like the idea of giving exhaustion recovery through Timeless Body, keeps it a minor feature but it’ll come up a few times in a campaign and be really clutch when it does. Technically makes the monk fully long rest independent.
@@pinkliongaming8769 Treantmonk Variant (he did variants of all classes and the subclasses and spells in the PHB, they're on youtube. Regarding the Flurry of Blows fix, I'm not as much of a fan since it only improves Flurry of Blows. Also I agree with many attacks being fun and thematic, but four attacks per turn is already a lot, more would really feel dragged out in combat imo
I have an idea for Diamond Soul rework. It's an alright ability, but it comes too late and doesn't really see play. So instead I think it would be interesting if instead it was spread through levels, giving one proficiency of player's choice at a time, starting somewhere around lvl 3. It may sound broken, but Paladins get a bonus to *all* saving throws, which is basically equivalent to Prof Bonus in most games (+3 or +4), stacks with actual proficiency, and can potentially affect multiple players. Compared to Aura of Protection, a few extra Save proficiencies is nothing special.
I like a lot of these changes. I do have a couple thoughts. 1. While the martial arts die scaling is fine, I think the flavor of rapid strikes is mitigated by only attacking four times with FoB, even with those powerful dice. Really, FoB should allow for three attacks at 11 and four at 17, so that while damage per hit isn't as good as using a heavy weapon and GWM, you'll still be making more attacks if you spend a ki point than a normal fighter. 2. Both save DC and the capstone should let you choose between dex and wis, especially considering the flavor and mechanics of some subclasses. Astral Self, anyone?
One of the downsides to adding FoB hits is that it only buffs the monk's bonus action, meaning that using anything else for your BA becomes a huge hit to your damage. Patient Defense, for example, becomes even more painful to use than it already is.
@@younghoono I think a fix to this would be having FoB add one hit to your attack action, then scale at 11th and 17th. That way it doesn't use up your BA, but your BA can still be used to get one more hit in.
Rather then change Furry of Blows why not adjust Bonus Attack, give the monk scaling with the fighter. Then you could tune back the Martial Arts die just a little; maybe max it at 2d6 so it is in line with a fighter. I don't see why a monk wouldn't be able to throw the same number of punches as a fighter can swing a sword or firing a crossbow. I would also remove the Patient Defense Ki point cost because it still uses your bonus action but now you have the option for your bonus actions or if your going to 'tank' you can do so more effectively with out burning all the ki before you can use your other features that also use Ki points. I might add in it can only be used while Unarmored.
@@TreantmonksTemple This is a fair consideration. Although I would prefer this style of fix rather than increasing the die, it would force even more changes with subclasses for balance to make it less worthwhile, Also, it would mean that quickened healing would probably be less used at later levels (again)
One thing that could help at later levels is giving monks the multiple extra attacks that are currently exclusive to fighters. The feature even feels more like something a monk could do.
it wouldn't work out the same way. fighters make those extra attacks churn out damage by being able to either confer multiple +10s on them with GWM/sharpshooter or having access to spellcasting and getting things like hex or shadow blade. 11 is so big for fighters because in most causes they can guarantee 33 plus damage before resources, monks would only use those attacks to try and stunning strike more. More dice on their attacks feels more appropriate in light of that
A homebrew I’m waiting to use does that, Allowing Monks to do a number of unarmed strikes equal to proficiency, maxing out at 6 strikes at level 17. While being identical if not weaker than base monk at early levels since this one forces unarmed strikes, it does free your bonus action to do anything else. And by the time a monk can do 5-6 strikes it does scale a bit powerful (35-40dpr) something the author mentioned, but there’s also the fact that Monks can’t use any feats for dpr or the most obvious one, magical weapons.
You could do it kinda like pathfinder, Flurry of blows is no longer a bonus action 2 attacks, but an attack action scaling to "X" amount. Ie 2 at level 1, 3 at level 5 , 4 at level 10, 5 at level 15, 6 at level 20. In pathfinder it doesn't cost a resource, but it also flattens out your bab... it's a different system. But idk, you can flurry with your fists as an action for the cost of ki, make the martial arts have better scaling, I could see it being nice, though someone would have to number crunch to see if it's worth it.
Well reasoned adjustment. The armor option is significant because one of the main drawbacks of monks is they have a very difficult time scaling because other classes can enhance their offense or defense with magic items, and the monk is very limited in this regard. At least having the ability to wear magic armor helps overcome this partially. I still think they need a deflect blows type of option similar to catching the arrows. I would also see some sort of ability to disarm foes a bit better than others. It is also very thematic.
I have my own homebrew for a deflect blows feature called Parry Blow, which you would get at 1st level. Essentially, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC against one attack, provided you are unarmed or weilding a monk weapon. I also gave the Kensei subclass a feature at 3rd level called Disarming Blade. If you successfully use your Parry Blow feature while wielding a kensei weapon, you can spend 1 ki point as part of that reaction to disarm the attacker (no save), provided they can drop the weapon. If it drops the weapon, the attacker can't retrieve the weapon until the start of its next turn (so it can't just pick it up and continue to attack you on the same turn).
Have you considered 1d4, 2d4, 3d4, 4d4 scaling for MA dice? It's way easier to remember and averages are pretty close to your current solution (2.5 | 5 | 7.5 | 10 vs. 3.5 | 4.5 | 7 | 10.5).
I’m currently writing my personal changes and fixes to all classes, and this is what i did. i like having different classes use different styles of damage (more swingy/less swingy) so i used this as an opposite to the barbarians usual d12. i‘m currently considering if i should give them an extra d4 when they go versatile. only if they do the martial damage of course.
Sounds appropriate. I like your ideas! keep working on them! There is one thing I missed from his old version of the monk. He had a reaction to raise AC. Maybe if deflect missles could work for melee attacks too?
Been working on my own attempt at fixing the monk and some of the quality of life fixes I added were martial arts letting you use acrobatics for grapple and shove attacks and unarmored movement allowing you to use your Dexterity score and modifier for jumping.
EXACTLY! Go to any Judo club and watch tomanagi. That is acrobatic, and it works quite well. The slight modification to foot position to make this painful (e.g. in combat) is obvious ( see ruclips.net/video/cN-HpO2hODE/видео.html for example)
I'm surprised the fix for DC wasn't 'DEX or WIS whichever is highest'. I still really wish monk had something to exploit their additional movement though.
Changing Unarmored Defense to somehow include proficiency bonus would be simple, unique, enticing, thematically appropriate, and easily balanced for effectiveness. Edit: Sorry, just realized you said DC, not AC. Your idea is good, too.
They kind of do have a way to utilize their extra movement with his proposed changes actually. Making Step of the Wind free let's them get a free disengage every turn, and the extra movement means that many creatures will never be able to catch them if they don't want them to.
@@jamesoakes4842 True, and it's a good improvement, but movement is the one key advantage that monks get over the other classes, and I'd like to see it used more than it is. Whether something like a charge attack, sacrificing movement for extra damage, or even giving monks battlefield control dependant on moving around the battlefield (like a rope that entangles enemies a la battle of Hoth) I don't know, but just "run in, attack, disengage, run out" is a bit bland for characters that can get upwards of 100 feet of movement easily, and just leads to your slower party-members being targeted instead.
I was going to suggest this myself. The changes as there are almost makes wisdom a dump stat. I would prefer for wisdom monks to remain a viable build option.
Wow, the "lookup" factor is a dimension I never considered. I usually agree with your assessments, but even if I were always diametrically opposed I would cheer for that. Aside from that, I would love a follow-up to this after you do a short playtest of your rebuild. Great assessment Chris
It's interesting that you mention that a featless game benefits monks standing. I created a homebrew feat and subclass a while ago to fix the Monk that is similar to the martial adept feat battlemaster combo: grants additional ki points and provides alternative uses for ki from a list of battlemaster like abilities but with more of a monk theme. I think introducing more feats which explicitly benefit monks could be a great way forward for the class, and an easier way for WOTC to implement than a reprint. Idk if links work on YT but if you look for Way of the Mastered Body and Ki Adept feat on Reddit you should see the kind of solution I mean.
The problem with feats is the monk cannot take them. They are MAD, they do need the AC, so you end up taking ASI 4 times before your first feat. Excluding human, custom race and half feats obviously
@@asdad54 I agree, hence the feats would need to be strong enough to compensate for the loss of AC (highly defensive) or loss of attack power/accuracy (highly offensive). Half feats could also help as this can help the monk keep boosting their stats while gaining useful features. A couple of ideas: Improved Unarmoured Defence: You may add you prof bonus to AC if you are wearing no armour or shields and benefit from the unarmoured defence or natural armour feature. (Boosts Monks and Barbarians in a reasonable manner I think, scales well with level too and makes both classes less MAD). Swift Strikes: Whenever you make an unarmed attack or natural weapon attack you may make an additional attack of the same type against the same target with a -5 modifier to the attack roll. (Large boost to damage output similar to Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master but benefits monk most)
My personal favorite change for monks is changing Flurry of Blows to add one extra Martial Arts die to all attacks that qualify for its use, changing the Martial Arts bonus attack to automatically include two attacks at 5th level, and allowing them to spend their bonus action to regain one Ki Point up to Wisdom Modifier times per long rest.
Outside of your ki ability changes and bug fixes, I would instead suggest the following three changes to the class. 1) Martial Arts Die- leave the die value alone but replace the words "place of" with "addition to" in the Martial Arts rules. This subtle change in wording does all the things you're looking to do already, it increases damage while not making versatile useless. In addition it allows the monk a reason to use bonus action attack options with their weapon (dual wielding or polearm master) when not using flurry. Unarmed focused Monks can always grab Tavern Brawler to keep up. This may look like frontloading the extra monk damage when it comes to level compared to your fix except for the next change. 2) Wisdom- Add to the Martial Art feature that a monk adds their Wisdom bonus to their physical ability scores, but the total score can't exceed the natural limit, for 1 minute a certain many times per long rest. This would shift monks primary ability score to Wisdom without making the other scores useless. It increases damage in a way that scales with ASIs, while also improving Ki ability DCs, Unarmored Defense, and the HP pool. It also boosts physical combat skills like grappling. I would also change the capstone to Exceed All Limits, raising all the ability score limits to 24 and adding +4 Wisdom. 3) Deflect - I'd change deflect arrows into a catch-all reaction, pun intended. Essentially I'd extend the feature to be triggered by all attacks that hit. It's a unique reaction that's cool but underused. This change is a damage reduction and a way to potentially counterpunch.
Regarding #1: you're still replacing STR with DEX, so in essence, your unarmed strikes are 1+DEX damage? But you get to add your martial arts, so it's 1+1d4+DEX damage. And if you were to take Tavern Brawler, you get 1d4+1d4+DEX on every attack. Otherwise, you'd use a weapon like a quarterstaff, and get 1d8+1d4+DEX damage, and subsequent unarmed attacks (martial arts or FoB) would be 1+1d4+DEX. And the martial arts goes up over time, eventually to 1d8+1d10+DEX. Considering that half of a Monk's attacks are unarmed strikes, Tavern Brawler adding 1d4 or 2d4 damage every round would be practically mandatory IMHO.
Thanks Chris very interesting. I hadn't even thought of some of those key- points. There are 3 ways i have dealt with monks in my game: *give them 3 battle-master maneuvers they can use with ki points and martial arts die. *magic hand-wraps that gives them plus 2 to hit, damage, hit points, ac, and ki-points. *split 'ki' into 'yin and yang': have 5 points for offensive abilities(stunning strike, flurry of blows), and 5 for defensive abilities(patient defense, deflect missiles).
I think the changes sound quite reasonable. The martial arts die progression seems a bit weird to be honest. Most of the other non-caster character gain a significant amount of their power through feats. So giving them feats that actually work well with them or making the monk work better with some of the existing feats should also improve their potential. What do you think about that? Am I overlooking something?
One of my own additions: Monks get 2 reactions per turn. It's flavourful because the monk's niche was meant to be controlling the battlefield, and monks spend their lives training reaction speed.
@@mathiasseverin5673 Fair enough. Another issue I see with unlimited reactions though is bogging down combat when one player is constantly taking opportunity attacks. I like Perfect Self. One of my friends suggested the monk capstone be Blindsight and Truesight up to 30 ft., which I also really like.
My monk fix: 1. Ki pool = monk lvl + WIS modifier 2. Strike of the Six Paths 5th level, monk feature You can interact with the Ki energy flowing through your opponent's body. Once per turn, if you hit another creature with a melee attack with a monk's weapon, you can spend 1 ki point to deal a Strike of the Six Paths and choose your next effect. - The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or become restrained until the end of your next turn. - The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone. - The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. - The target must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw or roll a d4 and subtract the resulting number from all of its attack rolls and ability checks, as well as from its Constitution saving throws to maintain concentration until the end of your next turn. - The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened until the end of your next turn. - The target must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or gain the effect of a slow spell until the end of your next turn. You don't need to concentrate on this effect. 3. BG3 buff: Ki-Empowered Strikes: unarmed attacks deal extra damage equal to your WIS modifier (minimum 1) 4. ADEPT KI 11th level, monk feature You have mastered the signature Ki techniques. Once per turn, you can use Strike of the Six Paths or Flurry of Blows without spending Ki. 5. Master 17th level, monk feature Monk take extra unarmed strike from Flurry of Blows
I love these changes. The additional dice for martial arts dice works really well as a damage bonus for unarmed strikes. It's basically a +1 for 2 dice and +2 for 3 dice.
About "Stillness of Mind" wording: the original says that you "can use your action to end one effect". As a lawyer, I would argue that it ALWAYS allows you to use your action this way, even if the charm effect would otherwise demand a action. You have a special ability that says that you "can use your action", so it must override other commands. But I totally understand how the writting is too vague and should be improved
I think you'd be wrong in the case of spells like fear and dominate person. Those duels specify that you *must* use an action to do something. Not that you lose the action to do something else. Though I agree with your meaning.
TBH they should just get Immunity to fear & charm, devotion paladins get Immunity to fear & charm and can give it to everyone in 10ft from them, and Twilight cleric can end fear/charm without using an action in a 30ft radius.
Been racking my brain for some simple monk fixes. I love these changes. One of the minor tweaks I had come up with was adding proficiency bonus to KI total. (Also hit die and martial die changes, but those were covered here) And I think that grouping two features that are fairly minor to one level(like tongue of the sun and moon), then adding an additional ASI to the monk. Edit: and also removing the Attack Action requirement to Flurry of blows and the Martial Arts bonus action unarmed strike. (Less book keeping and frees up the action to use something like a healer's kit) (Also did this for the War Priest subclass feature)
I've also thought that making stunning fist last 1d4 rounds (with a save on each subsequent round to shake off the effects) would make the monk FAR more useful/relevant in combat situations. Alternatively, giving them the ability to do a stunning strike for 2 ki cost, but with DISADVANTAGE on the save could have potential.
I'd personally give monks ki equal to their proficiency bonus + level, then change Stunning Strike so the creature instead gets to repeat the save at the end of each of their turns with Adv if they still have >50% of their hitpoints.
My own version of Stunning Strike has only small change: regardless of if the target makes their saving throw or not, they have disadvantage on their next attack roll before the end of their next turn. Its a minor debuff that I think makes Stunning Strike a much more reliable feature to spend your limited ki points on. EDIT: Oh, one more minor change: if your attack was a critical hit, you don't have to spend ki points to use Stunning Strike on that attack.
I do overall like this better than the PHB monk, but I do have a couple of issues with it. First, I do think that this basically cuts out almost all of the monk's uses for wisdom, and I think that plays against the fantasy of the monk quite a bit. I don't think it's that much of a problem balance-wise, but many of these changes minimize any incentive to put points in wisdom, which to me is part of the appeal of the idea of the monk. The next thing I'd argue against is the scaling on the martial arts dice. While on its own, I don't think it's too much of a problem, I do think that first, it would be something would be confusing on a conversion, and second, while I do think that martial arts needs a boost, I think that "catching up" to your baseline is a borderline problematic goal, especially in combination with stunning strike getting it's own resource pool. Now, I will say that I do like stunning strike getting its own resource pool, but considering monks can force up to 4 (or more, with multiclassing) saving throws, even ones that tend to be good, like constitution saves, and in this case would be doing them fully scaled up since they would rely on dexterity, I don't think their damage should be as close to the baseline as it would be given this build. At level 20 (I know, I know, not a likely scenario to be played at), you'd be forcing the boss monster to make 4 DC 23 saves a turn. While I think that might be fine on its own, that theoretical character should probably not also be on par in terms of damage. Something's got to give, and that might have to be damage in this case. I do think that generally, it's a good direction, but maybe it could use some more time in the oven, or some playtesting.
I think a lot of monk's problems stem from wizard writing them as a sister class to rogues essentially, sharing hit die and dex saves/dex specialization. only issue here is that rogues are also written to be very good at hit and run tactics or to excell at ranged combat to stay out of the way of danger or at least make it hard to be hit. and they don't spend resources to do it. Monk feels like they were worried about unarmed combat getting out of hand but forgot this game has wizards and paladins in it. though, from a simplicity standpoint, at least monks let newer players /feel/ badass early, getting access to multiple attacks at the start without having to optimize or mess around with feats. They're very beginner friendly, i just don't understand why unarmed/two weapon combat is held so harshly back when smites, sharpshooter/GWM and sneak attack exist
I agree it's like there's clear oversight with the power scaling, especially when it comes to what you said above. Dipping into Hexblade fixes Paladin which would make you got why isn't Cha their main stat? Since they kinda need all 6 stats.
@@ExeErdna honestly, a paladin doesn't exactly /need/ hexblade dip. it's just the means to get the most damage. they would still be the most balanced martial offensively and defensively, WITH spellcasting and a damage burst feature that doesn't over-rely on their spellcasting stat. hexblade rewards a paladin for main stat-ing charisma, but str based paladins are by no means weak. not when they can just GWM and or polearm mastery and divine favor and start crit fishing that way.
Our group loves these changes! We came up with only two other modifications: Changing the Ki save to use Dex instead of Wis - We use the highest of the two Quickened Healing - We use it just like Second Wind - with no Ki cost but 1/shortrest resource pool. It heals less than Second Wind, even if you adopt all the scaling changes to martial arts dice . It can be a bonus action with a ki point instead of a full action.
Great changes. What we did for our game was apply the Open Hand monk archetype directly to the base monk chassis. The result was for the monk to lean harder into the control aspect with it's flurry of blows by knocking creatures prone and removing reactions and have an interesting high level ability to look forward to with quivering palm which was a feature base monk's could use in older editions.
Gotta agree with a comment I saw down below about making the Martial Art's die scale by adding D4s instead of going D6 -> D8 -> 2D6 -> 3D6. Less confusing, feels similar to Rogue Sneak Attack. Last thing I want when keeping track of something scaling, is for the scale to change through the progression. It either needs to be consistently changing dice type, or consistently changing number of dice used, not one and then back to the other. If it meant that the Monk's baseline damage dropped down to literally baseline/every so slightly under baseline I'd be fine with the tradeoff. Also loved the comment I saw about using Wis in place of Con for HP gained when leveling up (I'd assume for Hit Dice rolled during a Short Rest as well). It stands out in a cool "oh that's different!" way that's easy to keep track of while removing one of the Monk's problems (being MAD). It also maintains Wis as an important stat for Monks: with changing the save DC for Monks to Dex off of Wis without giving Wis another area of importance, Wis kinda ends up in this awkward area of "well its important for AC unless you get Medium Armour proficiency then you have literally no reason to invest in it". Kinda makes races that provide armour proficiency a bit *too* good for Monks without that additional reason to invest in Wis.
Quickened Healing I always thought was designed to be a way to use your remaining ki during a short rest to heal back up, since it otherwise goes unused, so I never thought it was too bad in that sense.
Before the video what I do. 1. health die d10 like normal close range melee classes 2. Any weapon without the heavy attribute can be a monk weapon 3. Make their bonus action movement not cost ki you if that seems to overpowered make it only half their movement. 4. For way of the for element monk make any cantrip like addilities not cost ki, and make the spells cost ki equal to the spells level.
The discussion of Step of the wind made me think of one of the Monks themes: mobility. It'd be neat to design the class around a resource pool (ki?) that grants exploitation and manipulation of the action economy. The rogues cunning action has no resource outside the action economy, but if the monk could use step of the wind (once per turn) at the cost of a ki point without it costing a bonus action. This wouldn't jive with arguments about Monks limited ki pool, but more ki based abilities tied to hacking the action economy feels very Monk and distinguishes them in terms of flexibility.
I love the 2d6 and 3d6 for the martial arts die. I feel like a big part of monks is hitting plenty of attacks, and rolling multiple d6 makes it feel thematically like you've actually landed multiple hits at once
There is one thing I missed from your old version of the monk. It had a reaction to raise AC. Maybe if deflect missiles could work for melee attacks too? Just on one attack.
For the capstone, I'd want something more interesting. I'd keep the 4 ki regen while adding this : " Whenever you spend Ki, you may gain the benefit from another ki ability if it is less than or equal to the ki you spent. If the additional ability requires a bonus action, treat it as a free action."
Unsure if this would work well or break the game balance but one thing that came to mind as thematically appropriate gimmick might be to allow you to spend additional ki (on flurry, patient defence, and step of the wind) to use them without using a bonus action. You can only augment an ability in this way once during each of your turns, and it does not allow you to use the same ability more than once on a turn - so this doesn't allow you to flurry twice, but it does allow you to flurry and also make your normal martial arts bonus attack.
The fixes presented here have been really good, I have tested them in my group up to level 8, and it was good. Quick Healing had a small issue however, at higher levels, you can spend all your ki point before a short rest and heal your full hit points instead of using hit dice. So perhaps having a "you can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. All spent uses are reganed after finishing a long rest" will help
They should get extra ASI at 6, 10, and maybe 14 (same as Fighters + Rogues). Make Ki equal to the monk level + wisdom modifier, and number of attacks in flurry of blows increase with proficiency bonus if staying in monk levels. Maximize dex and wisdom earlier, more ki early and overall, and more attacks than anyone else like a monk should be doing.
I think a fun capstone would be to play off a one inch punch. You could do something like, “when you hit with an attack, you can deal a number of D6s extra damage equal to the number of ki points you spend.” Just put a cap on how many ki points you can spend in one hit. This would let monks wait for that crit then do a ton of damage.
I don’t even know that you need to put a cap on it. If the 20th level Monk wants to burn all of their ki to deal 20d6 I don’t feel like it’s unreasonable. On average that would still only be 70 damage and they would be seriously limiting themselves until until they can rest.
Always enjoy the analysis on where classes come up short. I frequently use your content to generate things to ponder and some pitfalls to look out for when I design stuff in 5e. I'd rather approach monk damage through number of attacks instead of larger damage die/dice. Maybe biased from a character I played that abused 3e's double weapon rules and enchantments to get 9 attacks a round, but thematically, I do like monks getting the high volume of attacks. Light/Medium armor reminds me of an earlier Sohei subclass pass I did using the monk chassis, but accommodating armor and weapon use required so much exception to the monk chassis that I reworked the concept to use the paladin class (a throwback to the 1e version in OA). The d10 hit dice does make more sense based on the modern fantasy monk (heck, certain archetype versions would be d12, e.g. Final Fantasy). I'm currently testing some TCoE-style optional features (this is the method I'm using to patch official content rather than rewriting them - rewriting feels more like a 5.5e deal). 5th level lets you choose one bonus action monk feature to reduce its ki cost by one (switch on LR), improving at 14th level to allow you to use a second monk bonus-action feature as part of the same bonus action. 9th level, regain 2 ki for a bonus action WisB/LR uses, 12th level FoB is 3 instead of 2 attacks, level 20 regain 4 ki if less than 4 ki when you roll initiative (Perfect Self fix, really).
One ki for each level is insufficient. After reading some ideas from others, I have homebrew the below to add to the existing monk class. Base on the theme that: Monks need to be wise to know when and how to use their ki. Level 2 Ki points equal to monk level + proficiency bonus. You can only have a maximum of 20 ki points. Which meant that once you get to level 15, your ki points do not increase anymore. (It won't be too much as below are more features to spend ki points) Ki Defence. As a bonus action you can spend 1 ki point to gain +1 bonus to AC for 1 minute. You can spend 2 ki points to gain +2 bonus to AC using this feature from level 7, and 3 ki points for +3 AC from level 14 Deflect Missiles Starting at level 3, you can use your reaction to concentrate on deflect or catch the missiles when you are hit with weapon attacks until the start of your next turn. When you do so, the damage you take from a ranged weapon attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level. You can deflect up to 2 missles from level 8 and 3 missiles from level 15. Level 3 Ki-Fueled Attack. You can spend one ki point at the start of your turn to gain +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn. You can spend 2 ki points to gain +2 bonus and 3 ki points to gain +3 bonus from level 8 and level 15 respectively. Your attacks using this feature count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. (In replacement of the feature under the same name. Mainly for the fact that monks don't get the benefit of magic weapons) Level 6 Ki Refuel. On the first turn in a combat, you can spend one turn not moving and not taking any actions to regain 2 spent ki points (the regained ki points increases to 3 from level 13). You will be in the same state as under the Sanctuary spell until begining of your next turn (spell save DC = 8+PB+Wis Mod). Once you regain ki points this way, you cannot do so again until you finish a short/long rest. Level 10 Ki Strike. You learn the way to concentrate your ki to deal additional damage with your attack. From Level 10 if you have not moved in your turn, you can spend one ki point to add one extra d6 to all damage rolls of your attacks in this turn. Your speed will become 0 for this turn. (No other features from 11-17 as many of them do scale) Level 18 Supreme Ki Defence. You have practice ki defence for long enough that the effect become perminant. Your unarmored defence = 13 + Dex mod + Wis mod. You cannot spend extra ki points to gain the benefit of Ki Defence.
Thinking back to this video, one thing that really helped monks in my games was allowing their unarmed strikes to count as one handed melee weapons or letting them use some kind of cestus / brass knuckles. The first benefit this gave was allowing them to use the Dueling fighting style on their bonus action attacks and the second much more impactful benefit was letting their unarmed strikes be the target of spells like Elemental or Holy Weapon.
Great video, I am considering presenting this to my group. One thing we have been using in my home campaign is stealing the idea of a ki focus from 4e. the idea works as follows. "Ki focus: the monk can attune to a magic weapon they are proficient in. (if a weapon does not require attunement, the monk can choose to do so to gain the benefits of this feature." When attuned to a magic weapon, the monk can apply the abilities of the magic weapon to their martial arts attacks. " This helps the monk keep up in a magic heavy campaign and is a quality of life feature in that all the monk's attacks can now use the same attack and damage calculation. it also removes the need for the insignia of the claw. and allows for a scaling version of the talisman to be built into the class. As a monk player, i found this to make the class far more enjoyable.
Bit late to the party here but I'll throw in my two cents. I'd do three other changes (1)-Unarmoured defence is 10+STR+WIS or 10+DEX+WIS whichever is higher. (2) Martial arts allows you to use STR, WIS, OR dex for to hit and damage, and you use the highest of these three stats when determining the DCS of your monk ability's (3) Diamond body is gained at 4th level but only grants one save;The monk gaining another save prof at 8th, 12th, and 14th. The purpose of the first two are obvious:Allowing different styles of monks. Neither make the monk more powerful just more flexible in concept. Want to play a high init fast hitting monk like bruce lee? Go Dex. Want to play a grappling bruiser like Zangief? STR is there for you! Want to be an insightful old sage like Mr. Miyagi? WIS for you sir. The Last is more of a patch; Level 14 is way way too long to wait for diamond body, monks should be getting save bonuses before then if it's suppose to be something they're known for. Now some say this would cause all clerics/druids to multi-class monk for the WIS to hit bonus but uh... is a slightly better basic attack really worth it slowing spell progression on casters who never get extra attack? I think not.
My fix for damage scaling is just keep adding d4s. At 1st level, your unarmed attacks do 1d4 + Dex. At 5th, 11th and 17th level, add 1d4 damage to your damage with monk weapons or unarmed attacks. It does a little more damage in the mid game and is easier to remember.
Thank you so much for doing this! I’m new to D&D and am super excited to roll my first PC as a monk, I’ve spend a couple month learning about the game and this class in particular. This video was super helpful on understanding not only the monk class better but the game better as well. Thank you again!! XOXO 🥰
I've got to admit this video was golden! I would like to share my mind on all those suggestions and also ask a question. Long Post Follows: Having played 4 monks already (1 in a long running 4 years campaign that just wrapped up) Especially him I never felt he was weak. I even did the math and I was holding up with the rest of the party greatly. And actually began carrying them after getting Diamond Soul. However I have to admit two things on that. 1) We had as a partly lots of encounters filled with saving throws. Especially the last three bosses. I didn't fail a singler saving throw. Diamound soul is a powerful ability that allowed me to win the war of atrition. 2) My monk had extremely good rolls on his stats. I always thought the monk as a high AC class (coming from pathfinder) and my char had an AC of 19 at lvl 4 (With also an 18 Con) which seemed fine to me. Then as a DM I made a standard array monk and only managed to hit AC 17 at lvl 4. Somewhat lower but I was expecting standard array to be weaker, the real dealbreaker was that I had a 13 Con to achieve the same. With a d8 hit die. Obviously Monks are MAD. But Paladins (a very thematically similar class in some aspects) while also being MAD do not need their secondy stat (charisma) as much from the get-go. They can afford to increase it at later levels, while protcted behind their heavy armors till then. Monks need both wisdom and constitution in order to survive. Also Flurry of Blows damage scales a lot with Dex(Being able to apply the mod 4 times in a turn at lvl 5). More than i.e. a fighters damage scales with Str(At the same lvl) So yeah Monks are MAD and all classes are better with high stats. ( And no class should be rated on how good you did on a random game of Yahtzee) but the Truth is Monks scale even more with ability scores than other classes... But also "Descale", if that's a word, equally hard if you decrease said ability scores. So (TL/DR) one simple fix I was thinking before watching this video was giving them an additional ASI like Fighters and Rogues get. What's your take on this?
I made my own sun soul fix where radiant sun bolt used wisdom for its attack rolls, gave it hand crossbow range, and allowed a free single bonus action bolt so it matched cantrip damage. Then I put searing sunblast to 6th level and gave it scaling for number of ki u could spend so it better matched other spell casters who get fireball at 5th level. Still couldn't decide on s 11th level feature but it was a low level campaign. Cant wait to see Treantmonks fix ideas.
Enjoyed the breakdown! This looks like a fine list of homebrew fixes for the monk - a little more in terms of total number of changes than I typically look at myself, but I think it all adds up pretty well. My (very basic) thoughts on how I'd do it myself would be: 1) one of these three survivability changes: Deflect missiles applies to all weapon attack, uncanny dodge at lvl 5, or remove the BA cost from step of the wind and patient defense. 2) Give more attacks - at lvl 11, make flurry of blows attack 3x instead of 2x, and then at either 17 or 20, make the attack action give one more attack. Those two fixes don't completely fix the monk, obviously - but they're what came to mind for me as the 'lightest' possible fix that addresses the two major concern I have (bad survivability and bad dmg at higher levels).
This fixes are pretty good. Simpler and more effective than the previous ones. But the d10 change and the martial dice scaling change for me is enough to make it at least playable for most of subclasses
YOu revision to Perfect Self is fantastic. Very much in flavor of "enlightened superpowers of the sage monk". I also like the hit die fix and especially Step of the Wind. I did that myself in a homebrew. When I did that, my player started using it a lot more often to make this thrilling chase scene with a wizard.
Another MA dice progression to consider: 1d6, 1d8, 1d12, 1d20. It gives the same average damage as your proposed fix, except for the 1d12 which is 0.5 less damage than 2d6.
Love your work! Really appreciate your thoughtfulness not just around the math, but ease of use by players. One thing I hear from DMs around Stunning Strike is that is too powerful because the player can spam it to attach the stunned condition in one round and that it's like getting to cast a spell 4 times in 1 round at 6th level. A fix for this with your additional uses via proficiency bonus (which I love) is to limit Stunning Strike to once per turn. Do you feel this is too limiting? The player still gets to attempt a stun but essentially slows the rate at which they spend their ki. I feel like this would incentivize the use of other Ki costing abilities (like Patient Defense) and/or manufacture a way for Ki to last longer. Thank you again for your work!
Interesting point. Maybe I'd allow for more then one attempt with some extra KI cost, before limiting it completely, just to see how it works out. Maybe each additional SS is +1 KI if its on the same turn, up to a max of 2. Though that doesn't change things much practically /mathematically. Maybe 2KI cost/attempt after the first is better.
As a 1st edition Grandmaster of Flowers, I see what you are doing. The Oriental Adventures book had a similar damage die layout, relative to that editions mechanics. The armor change is *perfect*; simple, straight, and to the point. Most of these changes are quality of life changes to a class that has suffered for as long as the Monk class historically has. Lucky for us that we are great at suffering, lol. THese changes, taken as a whole, open up more varied characters being created, which is a very important development for the archetype as a whole.
I like a lot of this. Something I've come up with that I think would be cool is an additional Ki feature gained at level 2: Combat Meditation: You can use your Bonus Action to roll your Martial Arts Die and regain that many Ki points, up to your maximum. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest. Things I like about this: 1) it gives you more Ki to use, duh. Maybe you can play Elements Monk without wanting to cry 2) it uses your Bonus Action, and I think juggling what Bonus Action to use on any particular turn of comabt is actually kind of fun when playing a monk 3) it scales with your monk levels 4) it basically increases your Ki based on your Wisdom, which makes being MAD somewhat more bearable and fits thematically Bonus Action, Martial Arts Die, Wisdom mod and Ki points, it uses almost every defining characteristic of the Monk and lets you do more of your Monk stuff.
Good reasoning behind the changes. More martial arts and usage of armor makes sense. I felt something needed to be free, and something could have a separate pool of usage/resource. My fav part is martial arts is usable with armor at the cost of unarmed movement. Clear choice one can make of playstyle.
I've been a DM for about 13 years now, and the house rule I've enjoyed using for the monk in my 5e games has been the following: Whenever a monk feature would have you expend one or more Ki points AND use an action, reaction, or bonus action, you can instead spend the base amount of required Ki points OR use the required action, reaction, or bonus action to use the feature. Any additional Ki points you could spend to enhance the feature can still be spent upon using it. This is added to having Ki points recover on a long rest instead of a short, and the following line is included in the "Ki" feature: "Each feature that could be used through the expenditure of Ki can only be used once per Round." While I've haven't been able to test it extensively in games due to a lack of players choosing monks, the players I've seen use it have had a blast.
Interestingly, monk is surprisingly close to the baseline if all you do is give them a second extra attack at lvl 11 (same a fighter), and then make flurry of blows 3 attacks at lvl 17.
Interesting. However, more attacks means the monk's turn will take up more time, every round. One fo the BIG merits of 5E is the fast round progression.
First of all, I'd just like to say thank you for presenting this video in such an organized way, including the recap around 22:00, because that makes assessing my own takeaway from this so much easier. I'd say I think most of these changes make sense, though if I had to pick at any of them, it would be 2, 4, and 11. 2 because, while martial arts can certainly be done while wearing armor irl, that's not necessarily part of the class fantasy. It feels like something that should be given by a monk subclass, the same way Kensai gives a wider weapon selection. You're not actually giving them proficiency of course, so it's not that big of a difference, but if finding a way to get medium armor proficiency became part of typical monk optimization, it would really feel like it had strayed as a class. 4 because it makes sense to me that a monks more advanced techniques aren't simply physical but based on their senses, intuition, and state of mind. Between 2 and 4, the result feels too close to the class fantasy of simply being a battlemaster fighter with unarmed fighting, a swift and agile pugilist with unparalleled technique, not necessarily someone who lives a self-disciplined life detached from worldly pursuits. 11 because it's just too same-y. It's certainly balanced with the barbarian in a well-thought-out way, but a capstone shouldn't just feel powerful, it should feel unique. It is a lot to ask for, and I don't know if I could do a better job, but that's how I feel about it. But that's it. I'm glad I went back and watched these. I'll watch the subclass video soon.
Some cool ideas there. I also made Step of the Wind not cost ki and Quickened Healing cost only 1 ki. I like the idea of short rest exhaustion removal for Timeless Body as well. The main changes I made in "D&D Rebalanced: Classes and Subclasses" were: - Proficiency with Light armor and longswords added. - You can use your Dexterity score instead of your Strength score to calculate your jump distance. - Flying Leap: You can spend 1 ki point to double your jump distance and increase your speed by 10 feet for that turn. - Gain Ability Score Improvements at levels 4, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, and 19 (2 more than normal, like the Fighter) - Stunning Strike: You can choose to spend an additional ki point to force the target to roll its Constitution saving throw with disadvantage. - Focused Aim: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll the attack and take the second result, potentially turning the miss into a hit. - New Feature - Deep Meditation: At 5th level, if you take 1 minute to sit still and mentally prepare yourself, you can use an action to enter a deep meditative state immediately after your preparation is complete. You gain 1 ki point for every uninterrupted period of 10 minutes that passes, up to 5 over the limit determined by your monk level. - Ki-Empowered Strikes: Once on each of your turns, when you hit with an unarmed strike, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your monk level. - Perfect Self: At 20th level, when you roll initiative against hostile creatures, you regain a number of ki points (to a maximum of10) based on the highest challenge rating of monster engaged in combat. (CR 5-15 = 3 ki; CR 16-20 = 4 ki; CR 21+ = 5 ki) Rather than altering the martial arts die, I found that my change to Ki-Empowered Strikes did a good job to help the monk keep up with its damage, it also incentivizes doing at least one unarmed strike each turn regardless of the die type being used. I also think the balance of Dex and Wis is an important part of the class' identity. Giving additional ASIs was my solution.
My 5 cents in the matter: - Proficiency in improvised weapons, they count as monk weapons. - Martial Arts Die one step up: D6 > D8 > D10 > D12 - While wearing no armor add WIS mod to Strength ability checks and saving throws. - Ki pool = level + WIS mod - Ki options: Flurry improves to 3 attacks at level 11. Patient defense improves at level 11 letting you attack as a reaction when an attack or spell misses you. Step of the wind gives you both disengage and dash benefits as a bonus action, and at level 11 gives you flying speed for the turn as bonus action. - Stunning strike: if the target is surprised, the delivering attack is a crit or product of a reaction (OA or Patient defense) the target does the saving throw with disadvantage.
I really like the change to the capstone. The +4 to con and dex is great. If that seems overtuned to some people I may suggest a +2 to wis, dex, and con. Or go ham with some kind of +2 to all stats. And call it enlightenment of body and mind.
I think I would change un armored movement, to be unimpeded movement, you gain the same benefits but only when wearing armor that does not impose disadvantage on stealth. It allows light armor and breastplate. These don't limit movement as much. Also allows for medium mithral armor
Disagree. Monks thematically, usually dont wear armor. So its interesting to give them the choice to wear it but they have a drawback if they do. The most important thing was being able to use up to Med armor with martial arts since now we can multiclass properly. Since thats covered, I prefer a more interesting/strategic decision depending on what i'm going for.
@@toufexisk I guess I have different priorities. I agree with monks needing options, but monk needs flexibility beyond what may be wanted for multi classing. I was thinking in terms of ways to bolster choices for monks who want to be monks. So they don't loose all their features linked to no armor if they want to wear a breast plate or leather.
One thing I would like to see is a mechanic similar to the Barbarian rage. You can channel your Ki inwards to give yourself boosts like increased AC, immunity from certain statuses, resistances to certain types of damage, etc. Perhaps that could be the Stillness of Mind/Timeless Body. Stillness of Mind lets you spend a Ki to use a free action to gain immunity to mental effects (bypassing the "use your action" problem too), gain advantages on mental saves or skill checks, etc. Timeless Body does the same, but for physical effects, saves, and checks. Only one can be activated at a time, and each costs 1 Ki, but you could say "I channel my Stillness of Mind to gain resistance to psychic damage," and then next time "I channel my Timeless Body to gain +2 AC," and have both active. Maybe impose a maximum of 1/2 your Ki pool, and you have to make a constitution saving throw in order to maintain the effect if you're damaged.
I'm so glad that you are changing your aproach to monks. You went from absurd arguments that told you never played a monk like: "monk's mobility sucks because everyone can use a horse" in your "Monks sucks" video to actually playing a monk and having fun with it (Mercy) and now doing constructive criticism and proposing fixes for this very fun but maligned class. Now on topic: all the short rest classes are balanced to have 2 short rest per adventure day according to DMG but in many tables that doesn't happen as we all know. If this works properly, monks could be spending 1 ki for round by level 6 or 8 (depending if your DM is closer to 6 or 8 combat a day) and that is great. I have 2 homebrew options to achieve that: 1) reduce short rest duration to 10 minutes as proposed in DMG optional rules and ignore the 30 min meditation required to regain Ki (you can limit the effective short rests to 2 times a day if you consider your players are abusing the mechanic) or 2) just triple the ki pool and make it a long rest mechanic, this is my prefered fix, it is simple, is accord to the intended balance and you aren't breaking anything.
Love that you are doing this for the monk. My suggestions below: Martial arts die progression: 1d4, 2d4, 3d4, 4d4. Give monks a "cunning action" for 0 ki for bonus action to include: single unarmed strike, dodge, disengage, dash I do like the wis-based for casting.
Step of the wind could also function differently: costs a bonus action, but you can spend 1 or more ki points and for each point used you leave behind a mirror image of yourself that lasts until the end of your next turn.
Great job with these monk fixes. I'd like to add two friendly suggestions...: 1.) ki: dex OR wis mod... 2.) add an additional benefit for using unarmored defense (maybe increased damage with unarmed strikes).
Monk fighting styles. At level 2. 1. Great Strike Style: +2 damage with unarmed strikes. 2. Evasion: +1 Monk's AC while not wearing armor. 3 Sage: +1 to the difficulty of saving the monk's rolls. At 10th level, the ability to choose one more style or boost one previous one by +1 value. At 18th level, the ability to also take one of the styles or boost the value of one by +1.
You know, I missed this when you first posted it... But when I rebuilt Monks for my custom campaign (I rebuilt basically all the base classes), I did most of the things you do here... I made martial arts die larger (though not quite as high as you went at the high end), unarmored defense use Proficiency bonus+Dex, made some ki powers 'free', reduced the cost of Quickened Healing, fixed stillness of mind (though by letting them use a reaction to nullify those effects which was simpler wording), and a handful of other things. However, I also added some features of Drunken Master like redirecting attacks as a reaction (and removed the ki cost) and 'leap to your feet'. Which feel like things all monks should be able to do. Of course then I rebuilt literally all the subclasses as well, though I did that for all the classes and not just Monk. So we had some very similar thoughts.
I just come up with a small fix for Astral Self monk is that your dedicated weapon(the TCE feature) will also show up as a part of your astral arm. You can use your astral arm attack as if you are using your dedicated weapon, and the damage type will be force damage and if it is a melee weapon than it will extent it's reach by 5 feet. Let's face it, silver chariot uses an rapier and the emperor is a gun. So stand can use weapons, and can be ranged.
I made 3 simple changes to monk, and it had drastic results: all I did was bump the martial arts die (d6-d12), add wisdom modifier to ki points, and gave them a a d10 hit die. I also just told my monk player that stillness of mind just works, RAI in this case not RAW, so not a change so much as a ruling. I additionally added 2 more complex features, at 11th level the monk can redirect any attack not just ranged attacks, and still “throw it back” if they reduce it to 0, and for level 20 perfect self I gave them a resistance of their choice which they can change at the start of their turn. I do like your idea of stealing the barbarian feature though, monks hunger for better base stats, and empty body as a bonus action seems good We have only gotten to lv 7 so far so I haven’t tried all of these, and I bumped the subclasses on a case by case basis.
Have you considered modifying features to augment damage rather than dice pool values? For instance rather than changing the monk damage die to multiple dice from 11th level on, you could effectively multiply damage by adding paralysis to the stunning strike feature. This doesn't address the problem of landing a stun but it puts individual strike damage on a stunned target in range with your improved dice pools. It may still have issues but could be a simpler solution mathematically.
I think they Should have a d12 as a Hit die. they are about perfecting the body. so it make sense I think either Giving them the option to add Wisdom to their monk hit die HP or add half of the wisdom mode when they level up would cover up the obvious shortcoming they get instead of the barbarian. I think the Monk progression should be a die size increase but I would increase the number of attacks of Martial arts and flurry of blows as they level up. Diamond soul I think should come earlier but progress not all saving throws at once. maybe 1 save at 7 , 2 saves at 11, all saves at 14
as the versatile damage increase I would say make it +2 that would keep up and match most fighting styles . the thing is there is no drawback for using two hands. you can use shields normally and your two hands won't be super occubide all the time so you can still use deflect missiles
I like all of the changes except making DC Dexterity, the change to quickened healing, and the change to perfect self (I made it so that you recover 5 ki at the start of initiative, no matter the amount of ki you're at, to a max of 20). Thank you a lot. As a DM, I struggle with balancing things for my players. A couple of my players only care about flavour, and some only care about power, so making sure that all classes are at least close in power is very helpful. I wouldn't really want to nerf anything, but I'm totally fine buffing weaker things. I'm going to pitch this to my group and see if they like it.
Great suggestions, I ran a lv 20 one shot with a Monk, Fighter, and Barbarian and it was obvious after a few combats that the monk was just incredibly under performing. As I recall his output of damage was about 25% less every turn than either of the other 2 and cost him Ki. By the end of it they had killed over 100 creatures and his self counted "kill counter" was in the single digits still. This is definitely a step in the right direction, though I would still keep the save dc as 8+ prof +Wis or some variation that keeps wisdom in the mix. The reasoning being, one could look at monks as a melee focused half-caster with a vary limited spell selection. Just like other half-casters, the monk gets another resource pool at lv 2 just like paladins and rangers; however, the ranger is less penalized defensively for a diverse ability score spread (if they stick to ranged attacks) than the monk. The paladin makes up the 3 primary needed stats with armor proficiency. That all said to see a monk as a half caster and removing Wisdom from the big 3 stats seems to go against the spirit of having a mental ability scores as a need balance between physical and mental scores.
Where are the spell slots as I see it spell casting means options, for monk it just lv 2 feature and stunning strike but really stunning strike and furry blows. Then dex base dc is good because at least it has a decent chance on landing on a CON save since you are giving up damage for it. Don’t forget still using wisdom on armor class perception and insight
Deliberately very humble, but this isn't just an opinion. It's analysis, numerical analysis. Some people think that feelings constitute data. Monk is aesthetically my favorite class. It's a horrendous class mechanically.
Although you had already made a video with your improved versions of the original classes, I’ve been waiting for a vid FOCUSED on trying to fix the Monk. Thank you so much Treant Sensei Edit: I loved how the changes were exactly what I expected, all the way to the end, including borrowing the Barbarian Capstone, which I thought would be great to adapt for the Monk! These changes definitely make the Monk an interesting and exciting class to play Maybe on the DPR graph at the end you could have included the current 5e Monk line so we would get a better idea of the improvement
I think an additional set of changes, in line with your framework, would be to lighten the load on the Diamond Soul feature and spread the save proficiency to other flavor features, making them purposeful. Stillness of Mind for INT saves, Purity of Body for CON saves, Tongue of the Sun and Moon for CHA saves, and Diamond Soul for WIS saves. End power is the same, and thematically cool as your monk's growing mastery of their ki grants measurable combat prowess.
This fix opens up more races: Unarmored Defense: Your AC is equal to 10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your proficiency bonus. Your training in martial arts (proficiency) supersedes your natural defense (Dexterity). Martial Arts: When you make attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons that lack the heavy or two-handed properties, you can use your Wisdom modifier on your attack and damage rolls. Your understanding of combat, finding weaknesses, and intuition allow you to strike more effectively. Ki already uses WIS modifier for calculating target save DCs (Ki save DC= 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier). So there is no need to change this. Deflect Missiles: The damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your monk level. Your sixth-sense and awareness of your surroundings allows you to use your reaction to avoid attack. Or Deflect Missiles/Iron Body: Starting at level 3, when you are hit by a ranged or melee weapon attack, as a reaction, you can spend 1 ki point to duplicate the effects of (cast) the shield spell. Initiative Checks: You can add your Wisdom modifier to initiative rolls.
This allows for Strength (grapple checks/athletes), Dexterity (acrobatics/additional defenses), or Constitution (for more HP) builds. Get Wisdom to 20 asap, then focus on what you want most.
An issue I see with Stillness of Mind is that because it still uses up your action, you cannot use your bonus action take make unarmed strikes since both the Martial Arts feature and Flurry of Blows specify an Attack action must be used beforehand. I think immunity is more fitting, especially since Paladins gain immunity at 10th level and they grant that bonus to everyone in 10ft.
Great ideas! I've been working on a bit of a PHB balance pass for my tables, as I find a lot of the subclasses are lacking that originate from the PHB, my design philosophy is very similar to yours, with it being: A) I'd rather buff things than nerf things (it's much more socially acceptable to see your favorite class being buffed; compared to seeing your favorite class be nerfed) B) Simple changes, the core class and subclass experience should remain the same. C) 5e Design Consistency. I don't like how the PHB has several subclasses that aren't consistent with the newer subclasses in terms of expanded spell lists, for example, so this is changed. D) No class should be detrimentally weak, but I'm okay with classes I buff being a little bit behind the curve -- and I tend to aim for something to be middle of the pack, as opposed to being on par with some of the stronger options. Monks was something I knew were going to need a lot of work, so I'm happy I found this video to draw inspiration off. For Martial Arts I have went with "The Martial Arts die is increased to 1d4 at 1st level, 2d4 at 5th level, 3d4 at 11th level, and 4d4 at 17th level.", the damage die remains consistent and comparatively to your values the difference is only a mere 0.5 above/behind. The only exception to that is 1st level, where you already agreed during the video that they didn't need a significant buff prior to 5th level anyway. I agree Ki needs a drastic change, I'm not quite sure what I'm specifically going to do with it yet -- however. For my specific design philosophy changing Step of the Wind to not use Ki would be a violation of my 2nd rule but I do agree that Step of the Wind is kind of useless. At the moment, as of writing this, I'm actually thinking about doubling the Ki monks get, but also doubling the Ki spend by *most* features. This would provide more nuance between the weaker features and the stronger features. This would mean that Patient Defense and Flurry of Blows would require 2 Ki, but Step of the Wind would only require 1 Ki. My idea might shift overtime, though, but I know this in particular would help balance out the Four Elements monk. The only downside I see to this is book keeping becomes a little harder, but since I play on a virtual tabletop that isn't a problem for my group. Additionally, the Perfect Self change you suggested goes against the 2nd rule as well. I'd argue for something similar to base feature Perfect Self, but with the stipulation that it works even if you have Ki, and maybe a slight number tweak as well. "At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have fewer than 10 ki points remaining, you regain 10 ki points." this would ensure you always had resources for your abilities (that always feed off the same one resource), effectively giving you half of your points back every time you enter combat. Just a bit of a thought. All-and-all, I really enjoyed your insights and they helped me with my own projects, I can't wait to see what you do to the subclasses!
If you like what I do and would consider supporting this channel through Patreon:
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If you would like to know how I calculate damage or how baseline damage is determined, I go through it in this video:
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:52 What to fix
5:10 What to avoid
9:38 Martial Arts fixes
13:31 Hit die fix
13:56 Ki fixes
15:46 Quickened healing fix
16:52 Stunning strike fix
17:42 Stillness of mind fix
19:28 Timeless body fix
20:28 Empty body fix
20:56 Perfect self fix
21:36 Review
24:10 DPR analysis
My 11 fixes for the Monk:
Hit die d10
Martial arts allows light or medium armor
Martial arts die(dice): d6, d8, 2d6, 3d6
Ki DC is based on dexterity
Step of the wind doesn’t have a resource cost
Quickened healing costs 1 ki point
Stunning Strike has a limited resource pool, then costs ki
Stillness of Mind now works as it should (The intent here is your bonus action is still available)
Timeless body recovers a level of exhaustion on a short rest
Empty Body is a bonus action
Perfect self now adds +4 to Dexterity and Constitution
Frankly I need to think about that capstone a bit more, but I like the list.
How do you think these changes shape up against the Treantmonk Variant Monk chassis?
@@thefallinghammers2367 Probably not as powerful, but much easier to use
Question: If I make any monk builds using your suggested changes, and post it on DM's Guild, I would like to credit you in its creation on the intro., if that sounds good to you sir! You really hit the nail on the head on this one
@Treantmonk's Temple Well done sir....Well Done.
i think wisdom and dexterity for perfect self is fine, actually. Barbarians can actually use a shield in combat, so they can have that much AC as well, plus they get 40 extra HP at level 20. I think the monk could actually do with that much AC. In my opinion it fits best thematically as well. If you look at characters in movies that are often compared to monks, they usually dodge and block strikes incredibly well, so having at least the same AC as a barbarian seems fair.
I agree. It's 24 base AC assuming both are raised to 20, or 26 AC with the +2 magic item. That's very high but at level 20, that's probably fine
+2 to each ability score still provides a strong boost and leans more into the monk theme of perfect self.
@@nilsjonsson4446 My lv 9 Bladesinging Wizard can reach 30 AC by activating Bladesong, casting Haste, and then follow up cast Shield. I'm sure it's fine to boost Monk's AC more.
@@RisenRen with godly 20 dex&int stats and +1 armor - yes, you can reach 30 ac. In AL games I had 20 with bladesong and 25 with shield. At 10th lv.
Anyways - yes, it is fine. People are so scared of hight AC, but they foregot that there are AOE effects and other things that kill characters. Only one thing that I would change is not to increase hit dice. D8 is literally fine
@@Kivuhl He has 20 dex and 18 int to hit 30. Mage Armor: 13+5(dex), +1 Cloak of Protection, +2 Haste on himself, +4 Bladesong, +5 Shield casting and he’s level 9. And this character would be AL legal too.
One of the fixes I made for monk was to allow them to use Wisdom in place of Constitution for HP everytime they gain a level in monk. This allows you to ignore constitution making monks only need 2 good stats instead of 3. Making it only apply at levels they gain new monk level prevents multi-class abuse
This is really ingenious yet so simple. Like... wow.
And here I was, planning on making my own campaign adding a few balance changes to warlock and monk. Ive contemplated multiple options (not all options would be implemented) such as adding more weapon proficincies, making the martial arts die progress faster and end up as 1d12, giving them another extra attack around 12/14 level, changing hit die to d10, maybe making a half feat that gives them a +1 to dex or wis while adding 5 Ki points and such...
But that, makes me more comfortable to just adding a single change or two after making them only two attribute dependent 🤔
That's actually super nice and super thematic
It's a neat idea. Allows for a monk that is frail of body, but stands upright in a battle because of his willpower alone.
@@johngleeman8347 also, they end up being immune to poison and disease anyway, which makes up a lot of con saves.
That sounds so badass like you have to break their spirit if you want to hurt them.
Hmm... feels measured and not overly complex. You have my endorsement! (But let’s be honest, anything that buffed monks would get my endorsement, even if it wasn’t measured 😛).
Now Colby you need to do a monk damage build but with these homebrew changes.
Colby, glad you showed up for this. Take care.
I am also enthusiastic about any buffs to Monk, though I've been working on a rework of my own for quite some time. Would love to hear if you like it, but more so how you can break/abuse it before I upload it publicly, especially as you like Monks and optimization. I enjoy your build videos, and am looking forward to your own thoughts on how to improve/rebalance monks. I thoroughly enjoyed your Rune Knight co-op with Treantmonk, y'all should choose another soon. Here's the share code for the Homebrewery website for my rework:
/share/BA1WgiIeX
LOVE U COLBY
Monk needs a Riposte like feature that scales from level 1.
It makes no sense that they cannot attack a creature with their reaction if the creature misses. That's the essence of martial arts.
Yes exatly
Looooove the idea! Maybe something of the sorts of "whenever you are taking the dodge action and an enemy missies with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to make one unarmed strike against that target”? This way it synergises neatly with Patien Defense, giving it a slight offensive aspect and some extra mechanical depth, plus it can still be used with a standard dodge action. Would kinda be thematically feating.
@@aperez7922 I feel like it wouldn't even need to be while taking the dodge action, just whenever a creature misses and it uses your reaction. You're right too, it synergizes extremely well with patient defense, and also with something like Hand of Harm or Stunning Strike if the reaction attack is strictly an unarmed strike. What they could do is just treat it as an upgrade to flurry of blows: as a reaction you can make an attack, and if you spend a Ki you can make 2, then you can also apply Open Hand Techniques to it.
Great idea! 👍
Agreed. There are actually a bunch of maneuvers that I feel like should be base monk abilities that you could just spend ki to use (Grappling Strike, Disarming Attack, Brace, etc.).
For thematic reasons, I would like to see something like "you can use your dexterity rather than your strength for athletics checks". The fact that monks are arguably the worst martial character for grappling is just...thematically weird. Should be a part of the martial arts ability at first level.
(Not a big power level change, but I post on forums where people ask for helps with builds, and the number of people asking how to make a grappling or wrestling monk are quite high. I would like to give them that option).
On your timless body change--I wonder if you could just make the monk immune to exhaustion. Obviously this would be stronger than the ranger version, but this is a 15th level feature, the ranger version is a 10th level feature, and the ranger gets a bunch of other stuff at 10th level (temp HP, bonus action one round greater invisibility).
Not all martial arts styles have a focus on holds, locks, etc., but I fully agree that monks should at least have an option to get a bonus to athletics checks made to grapple, or just be allowed to use Dexterity - Acrobatics to initiate grapple checks.
A grappling focused subclass at a similar power level to Mercy or Shadow would be cool
I was thinking immunity to Exhaustion was appropriate for 15th level as well, especially since it isn't a common condition but is so devastating to martial classes. We are a high level Martial artist, we don't get tired!
Monks with low strength is thematically weird.
I agree with the grappling sentiment.
For the exhaustion component I would make it so that a monk is immune to exhaustion up until level 6 (instant death). Maybe this would also be a good use for ki; the body's vital energy. A monk could spend ki to remove levels of exhaustion instead of being outright immune.
#12. Add an ASI at level 10, and proficiency in either Con or Wis saves.
The 3.5 / Pathfinder monk was not a power class, either, but one cool thing it had going for it was that it was the champ at saving throws. Also, being the "perfected body" class, it doesn't make sense that it has merely bog-standard ASIs.
Monk in Pathfinder also muticlassed with Rogue pretty well.
I'd say that level 10 is pretty far up in that range, personally I'd bump it an extra ABSI at 6th Level and hell if your feeling generous another ABSI at 10th level to give them more than fighter
@@KoryLunaa I wouldn't be against it but as TM said at the start of the vid, it's better to K.I.S.S. and under-adjust, when you're modding something.
Well, they do get proficiency in both those saves... in fact, all the saves. It just happens at level 14. Not ideal, but what part of the monk is, honestly?
The Diamond Soul ability needs to come of line way sooner, around level 8-9. And the later Monk features should focus on more damage dealing abilities. E.g. a flat +2 to unarmed attacks & damage at level 11, increasing to +4 at level 15. Then just up the martial art die size by 1 across the board and you've got a much more balanced class.
As an mma fighter I really like these changes. Monks are very underpowered and I have run into issues where I personally, irl, can pull off some feats my character constantly fails and it's really frustrating.
This is an under appreciated comment, especially when it comes to the very,VERY neglected Martial classes in d20’games but specifically this one.
The fact of the matter is it’s relatively easy to outpace some of the martial characters IN REAL LIFE if you like, do this for a living (say a marine combatives instructor or SF instructor for example)
The amount of skills and techniques that they have are ASTRONOMICAL in representation.
And while the 5 e fighter is a “little”
Different; say a champion fighter is literally like a regular dude.
4 attacks in 6 seconds is not really all that spectacular. The average swarm boxer is putting out twice that. And they are GOOD shots.
Saw an idea to make the scaling go from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4 then 4d4. So it is like that each attack is actually more and more small punches landing and it makes more sense much like a Rogue's Sneak Attack.
This. Increases damage minimum without getting too crazy on max damage.
I also suggest on another video that stunning fist shouldn't cost ki unless the target fails their save. So it is never a bad to try, but always effective when used. Also the refund mechanic means cant use if you have zero ki.
I like the idea of scaling the martial art die by d4s. Easier to keep track of, and there is the fun of potentially being able to roll a fistful of dice (albeit small ones) when you land multiple strikes or crit.
I think this is much better than Treantmonk's scaling, much easier to remember and more consistent.
Damage is pretty similar to treatnt monk's .5 point difference here and there after lvl 4
@@jonathanchapple9651 Hmm, that might swing too far the other way though, no reason not to use it on every single attack in that case. But maybe something like one attack per turn gets the no-risk attempt, and then further attempts act as they did before? Actually, I would template it to stay the same and add something like "the first time you attempt a Stunning Strike and it fails, you may regain 1 Ki Point."
I think the best change is making step of the wind free. One of the shortcomings of monks is that they are supposed to be mobile but often don't have the ki to be as fast as rogues using their cunning action and still be effective. Even if your goal is to be a high movement DEXterity based melee striker, they fall short of rogue in terms of relying on mobility to compensate for a lack of defense and getting into range, and the ki cost of step of the wind makes rogue a drastically better 2-dip than monk for any build not wanting the unarmored defense. This will at least make it so that it has enough mobility to usually get to where it needs to be, even if it still falls short of arcane caster mobility at higher levels.
One important point about cunning action; it is specifically a bonus action for use in combat, so out of combat it doesn't provide them with a speed boost.
I would also argue that thematically it doesn't actually make sense for rogues to dash with both the action and bonus action, since the idea behind cunning action is that they are good are moving quickly/stealthily/without getting hit whilst being able to do something else at the same time, not that they are able to move much faster than everyone else. However actually enforcing this would be a house rule and I don't think rogues need a nerf.
I don't understand this. Not gonna say this is the way things should be, but rogues get a 30 foot move speed, and a bonus action dash for 60. Monks get an up to 60 foot move speed with a 120 foot bonus action dash. I think it makes sense it costs a resource over rogues, it becomes significantly better. Monks don't need a free ba dahs because they get the same movement but without the bonus action.
@@lordderppington4694 That's just dash, though. You could easily fix this by saying "You can use a bonus action to move an additional 30 on your turn" or something. The real problem is *disengage*. You get in melee, you're basically trapped wailing away at one person. If there's a bunch of enemies with overlapping and adjacent reaches that basically form a wall? You aren't getting through there without using ki. The rogue though? *Easily*
@@StarryxNight5 That's much more reasonable, though still. You get a 60 foot disengage, compared to the rogues 30. It feels like the rogue gets good free abilities, while the monk gets better but costly abilities, which I'd honestly be ok with, if the entire class wasn't propped up on flurry and stunning strike. If flurry becomes free, or stunning strikes becomes decoupled from ki (someone suggested = to prof bonus) all of a sudden you have triple the ki to use, and things like a ba dash or disengage become affordable. I think the problem isn't that monks are slow, or can't disengage, or have too few ki points. It's that literally every single part if their kit is tied to a pool of 5 points for 90% of players.
My favorite fix would be scaling the number of unarmed strikes you get with flurry of blows/martial arts, not just scaling the die type. It feels more thematic with the class and is simple enough to remember.
Really like the idea of giving exhaustion recovery through Timeless Body, keeps it a minor feature but it’ll come up a few times in a campaign and be really clutch when it does. Technically makes the monk fully long rest independent.
He actually did the flurry of blows attack increase at 11 at 17 in the TMV.
@@godminnette2 TMV?
@@pinkliongaming8769 Treantmonk Variant (he did variants of all classes and the subclasses and spells in the PHB, they're on youtube.
Regarding the Flurry of Blows fix, I'm not as much of a fan since it only improves Flurry of Blows. Also I agree with many attacks being fun and thematic, but four attacks per turn is already a lot, more would really feel dragged out in combat imo
Treantmonk variant
I have an idea for Diamond Soul rework. It's an alright ability, but it comes too late and doesn't really see play. So instead I think it would be interesting if instead it was spread through levels, giving one proficiency of player's choice at a time, starting somewhere around lvl 3. It may sound broken, but Paladins get a bonus to *all* saving throws, which is basically equivalent to Prof Bonus in most games (+3 or +4), stacks with actual proficiency, and can potentially affect multiple players. Compared to Aura of Protection, a few extra Save proficiencies is nothing special.
Honestly, I like to give Monks a free saving throw proficiency when they get an ASI.
Similarly, I give them Wis saves at 7th with Stillness of Mind and Con save proficiency alongside Purity of Body at 10th, leading up to 14th.
@@Bamstacks this is a great idea, fits right in with the theme of the ability at that level too.
I like a lot of these changes. I do have a couple thoughts.
1. While the martial arts die scaling is fine, I think the flavor of rapid strikes is mitigated by only attacking four times with FoB, even with those powerful dice. Really, FoB should allow for three attacks at 11 and four at 17, so that while damage per hit isn't as good as using a heavy weapon and GWM, you'll still be making more attacks if you spend a ki point than a normal fighter.
2. Both save DC and the capstone should let you choose between dex and wis, especially considering the flavor and mechanics of some subclasses. Astral Self, anyone?
I was wary about changing FoB because it ties into so many subclass features, and could cause issues there
One of the downsides to adding FoB hits is that it only buffs the monk's bonus action, meaning that using anything else for your BA becomes a huge hit to your damage. Patient Defense, for example, becomes even more painful to use than it already is.
@@younghoono I think a fix to this would be having FoB add one hit to your attack action, then scale at 11th and 17th. That way it doesn't use up your BA, but your BA can still be used to get one more hit in.
Rather then change Furry of Blows why not adjust Bonus Attack, give the monk scaling with the fighter. Then you could tune back the Martial Arts die just a little; maybe max it at 2d6 so it is in line with a fighter. I don't see why a monk wouldn't be able to throw the same number of punches as a fighter can swing a sword or firing a crossbow.
I would also remove the Patient Defense Ki point cost because it still uses your bonus action but now you have the option for your bonus actions or if your going to 'tank' you can do so more effectively with out burning all the ki before you can use your other features that also use Ki points. I might add in it can only be used while Unarmored.
@@TreantmonksTemple This is a fair consideration. Although I would prefer this style of fix rather than increasing the die, it would force even more changes with subclasses for balance to make it less worthwhile, Also, it would mean that quickened healing would probably be less used at later levels (again)
One thing that could help at later levels is giving monks the multiple extra attacks that are currently exclusive to fighters. The feature even feels more like something a monk could do.
it wouldn't work out the same way. fighters make those extra attacks churn out damage by being able to either confer multiple +10s on them with GWM/sharpshooter or having access to spellcasting and getting things like hex or shadow blade. 11 is so big for fighters because in most causes they can guarantee 33 plus damage before resources, monks would only use those attacks to try and stunning strike more. More dice on their attacks feels more appropriate in light of that
No need to change the class to do this. Create a magic item for your monk players that give them 1 extra attack.
A homebrew I’m waiting to use does that, Allowing Monks to do a number of unarmed strikes equal to proficiency, maxing out at 6 strikes at level 17.
While being identical if not weaker than base monk at early levels since this one forces unarmed strikes, it does free your bonus action to do anything else. And by the time a monk can do 5-6 strikes it does scale a bit powerful (35-40dpr) something the author mentioned, but there’s also the fact that Monks can’t use any feats for dpr or the most obvious one, magical weapons.
You could do it kinda like pathfinder, Flurry of blows is no longer a bonus action 2 attacks, but an attack action scaling to "X" amount.
Ie 2 at level 1, 3 at level 5 , 4 at level 10, 5 at level 15, 6 at level 20.
In pathfinder it doesn't cost a resource, but it also flattens out your bab... it's a different system. But idk, you can flurry with your fists as an action for the cost of ki, make the martial arts have better scaling, I could see it being nice, though someone would have to number crunch to see if it's worth it.
Well reasoned adjustment. The armor option is significant because one of the main drawbacks of monks is they have a very difficult time scaling because other classes can enhance their offense or defense with magic items, and the monk is very limited in this regard. At least having the ability to wear magic armor helps overcome this partially. I still think they need a deflect blows type of option similar to catching the arrows. I would also see some sort of ability to disarm foes a bit better than others. It is also very thematic.
I have my own homebrew for a deflect blows feature called Parry Blow, which you would get at 1st level. Essentially, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC against one attack, provided you are unarmed or weilding a monk weapon.
I also gave the Kensei subclass a feature at 3rd level called Disarming Blade. If you successfully use your Parry Blow feature while wielding a kensei weapon, you can spend 1 ki point as part of that reaction to disarm the attacker (no save), provided they can drop the weapon. If it drops the weapon, the attacker can't retrieve the weapon until the start of its next turn (so it can't just pick it up and continue to attack you on the same turn).
I would give the monk a few Fighting styles like Blind Fighting, Unarmed Fighting or Two weapon fighting and for the Kensei Monk Archery as well.
they should get a better unarmed fighting or a different styles of martial arts to select from
I agree but id have them get their own short selection of fighting styles in adition to a few of the fighters like blindfighting.
Have you considered 1d4, 2d4, 3d4, 4d4 scaling for MA dice? It's way easier to remember and averages are pretty close to your current solution (2.5 | 5 | 7.5 | 10 vs. 3.5 | 4.5 | 7 | 10.5).
Good point! I like it! As long as one has enough d4s available :P
I’m currently writing my personal changes and fixes to all classes, and this is what i did. i like having different classes use different styles of damage (more swingy/less swingy) so i used this as an opposite to the barbarians usual d12.
i‘m currently considering if i should give them an extra d4 when they go versatile. only if they do the martial damage of course.
Sounds appropriate. I like your ideas! keep working on them!
There is one thing I missed from his old version of the monk. He had a reaction to raise AC. Maybe if deflect missles could work for melee attacks too?
I like that. Really feels like you're doing a flurry of kicks and punches.
Even closer since most will probably just use the weapon damage to start then, so still 3.5 average
I've always felt the start to fixing the Monk class starts at it's base Chassis, love the ideas
Been working on my own attempt at fixing the monk and some of the quality of life fixes I added were martial arts letting you use acrobatics for grapple and shove attacks and unarmored movement allowing you to use your Dexterity score and modifier for jumping.
EXACTLY! Go to any Judo club and watch tomanagi. That is acrobatic, and it works quite well. The slight modification to foot position to make this painful (e.g. in combat) is obvious ( see ruclips.net/video/cN-HpO2hODE/видео.html for example)
Congrats on being added to the Tanares RPG 5e development team!! I can’t wait to see how you help the process!!
I will be involved in spell design.
@@TreantmonksTemple Seeing as I use a lot of your recommended changes to spells, that makes me VERY excited!
WoW! I didnt know this! Congrats!
I'm surprised the fix for DC wasn't 'DEX or WIS whichever is highest'.
I still really wish monk had something to exploit their additional movement though.
I like this better myself. I kinda want more features based on wisdom to help balance the need to invest in it.
Changing Unarmored Defense to somehow include proficiency bonus would be simple, unique, enticing, thematically appropriate, and easily balanced for effectiveness.
Edit: Sorry, just realized you said DC, not AC. Your idea is good, too.
They kind of do have a way to utilize their extra movement with his proposed changes actually. Making Step of the Wind free let's them get a free disengage every turn, and the extra movement means that many creatures will never be able to catch them if they don't want them to.
@@jamesoakes4842 True, and it's a good improvement, but movement is the one key advantage that monks get over the other classes, and I'd like to see it used more than it is. Whether something like a charge attack, sacrificing movement for extra damage, or even giving monks battlefield control dependant on moving around the battlefield (like a rope that entangles enemies a la battle of Hoth) I don't know, but just "run in, attack, disengage, run out" is a bit bland for characters that can get upwards of 100 feet of movement easily, and just leads to your slower party-members being targeted instead.
I was going to suggest this myself. The changes as there are almost makes wisdom a dump stat. I would prefer for wisdom monks to remain a viable build option.
Wow, the "lookup" factor is a dimension I never considered. I usually agree with your assessments, but even if I were always diametrically opposed I would cheer for that. Aside from that, I would love a follow-up to this after you do a short playtest of your rebuild. Great assessment Chris
It's interesting that you mention that a featless game benefits monks standing. I created a homebrew feat and subclass a while ago to fix the Monk that is similar to the martial adept feat battlemaster combo: grants additional ki points and provides alternative uses for ki from a list of battlemaster like abilities but with more of a monk theme. I think introducing more feats which explicitly benefit monks could be a great way forward for the class, and an easier way for WOTC to implement than a reprint. Idk if links work on YT but if you look for Way of the Mastered Body and Ki Adept feat on Reddit you should see the kind of solution I mean.
The problem with feats is the monk cannot take them. They are MAD, they do need the AC, so you end up taking ASI 4 times before your first feat. Excluding human, custom race and half feats obviously
@@asdad54 I agree, hence the feats would need to be strong enough to compensate for the loss of AC (highly defensive) or loss of attack power/accuracy (highly offensive). Half feats could also help as this can help the monk keep boosting their stats while gaining useful features. A couple of ideas:
Improved Unarmoured Defence: You may add you prof bonus to AC if you are wearing no armour or shields and benefit from the unarmoured defence or natural armour feature. (Boosts Monks and Barbarians in a reasonable manner I think, scales well with level too and makes both classes less MAD).
Swift Strikes: Whenever you make an unarmed attack or natural weapon attack you may make an additional attack of the same type against the same target with a -5 modifier to the attack roll.
(Large boost to damage output similar to Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master but benefits monk most)
My personal favorite change for monks is changing Flurry of Blows to add one extra Martial Arts die to all attacks that qualify for its use, changing the Martial Arts bonus attack to automatically include two attacks at 5th level, and allowing them to spend their bonus action to regain one Ki Point up to Wisdom Modifier times per long rest.
Outside of your ki ability changes and bug fixes, I would instead suggest the following three changes to the class.
1) Martial Arts Die- leave the die value alone but replace the words "place of" with "addition to" in the Martial Arts rules. This subtle change in wording does all the things you're looking to do already, it increases damage while not making versatile useless. In addition it allows the monk a reason to use bonus action attack options with their weapon (dual wielding or polearm master) when not using flurry. Unarmed focused Monks can always grab Tavern Brawler to keep up. This may look like frontloading the extra monk damage when it comes to level compared to your fix except for the next change.
2) Wisdom- Add to the Martial Art feature that a monk adds their Wisdom bonus to their physical ability scores, but the total score can't exceed the natural limit, for 1 minute a certain many times per long rest. This would shift monks primary ability score to Wisdom without making the other scores useless. It increases damage in a way that scales with ASIs, while also improving Ki ability DCs, Unarmored Defense, and the HP pool. It also boosts physical combat skills like grappling. I would also change the capstone to Exceed All Limits, raising all the ability score limits to 24 and adding +4 Wisdom.
3) Deflect - I'd change deflect arrows into a catch-all reaction, pun intended. Essentially I'd extend the feature to be triggered by all attacks that hit. It's a unique reaction that's cool but underused. This change is a damage reduction and a way to potentially counterpunch.
Regarding #1: you're still replacing STR with DEX, so in essence, your unarmed strikes are 1+DEX damage? But you get to add your martial arts, so it's 1+1d4+DEX damage. And if you were to take Tavern Brawler, you get 1d4+1d4+DEX on every attack. Otherwise, you'd use a weapon like a quarterstaff, and get 1d8+1d4+DEX damage, and subsequent unarmed attacks (martial arts or FoB) would be 1+1d4+DEX.
And the martial arts goes up over time, eventually to 1d8+1d10+DEX.
Considering that half of a Monk's attacks are unarmed strikes, Tavern Brawler adding 1d4 or 2d4 damage every round would be practically mandatory IMHO.
Thanks Chris very interesting. I hadn't even thought of some of those key- points.
There are 3 ways i have dealt with monks in my game:
*give them 3 battle-master maneuvers they can use with ki points and martial arts die.
*magic hand-wraps that gives them plus 2 to hit, damage, hit points, ac, and ki-points.
*split 'ki' into 'yin and yang': have 5 points for offensive abilities(stunning strike, flurry of blows), and 5 for defensive abilities(patient defense, deflect missiles).
I think the changes sound quite reasonable.
The martial arts die progression seems a bit weird to be honest.
Most of the other non-caster character gain a significant amount of their power through feats. So giving them feats that actually work well with them or making the monk work better with some of the existing feats should also improve their potential.
What do you think about that? Am I overlooking something?
One of my own additions: Monks get 2 reactions per turn. It's flavourful because the monk's niche was meant to be controlling the battlefield, and monks spend their lives training reaction speed.
Maybe even more than that. Perhaps even a capstone where you have unlimited Reactions for a minute or so.
@@mathiasseverin5673 I can see that getting out of hand. Not sure how, but some power gamer will find a way.
@@arnav3642 perhaps. But we are talking level 20. At this point Wizard throw out Wish and Simulacrum for fun.
@@mathiasseverin5673 Fair enough. Another issue I see with unlimited reactions though is bogging down combat when one player is constantly taking opportunity attacks. I like Perfect Self. One of my friends suggested the monk capstone be Blindsight and Truesight up to 30 ft., which I also really like.
@@arnav3642 that would fit them great. I agree.
My monk fix:
1. Ki pool = monk lvl + WIS modifier
2. Strike of the Six Paths
5th level, monk feature
You can interact with the Ki energy flowing through your opponent's body. Once per turn, if you hit another creature with a melee attack with a monk's weapon, you can spend 1 ki point to deal a Strike of the Six Paths and choose your next effect.
- The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or become restrained until the end of your next turn.
- The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
- The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.
- The target must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw or roll a d4 and subtract the resulting number from all of its attack rolls and ability checks, as well as from its Constitution saving throws to maintain concentration until the end of your next turn.
- The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened until the end of your next turn.
- The target must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or gain the effect of a slow spell until the end of your next turn. You don't need to concentrate on this effect.
3. BG3 buff: Ki-Empowered Strikes: unarmed attacks deal extra damage equal to your WIS modifier (minimum 1)
4. ADEPT KI
11th level, monk feature
You have mastered the signature Ki techniques. Once per turn, you can use Strike of the Six Paths or Flurry of Blows without spending Ki.
5. Master
17th level, monk feature
Monk take extra unarmed strike from Flurry of Blows
I love these changes. The additional dice for martial arts dice works really well as a damage bonus for unarmed strikes. It's basically a +1 for 2 dice and +2 for 3 dice.
About "Stillness of Mind" wording: the original says that you "can use your action to end one effect". As a lawyer, I would argue that it ALWAYS allows you to use your action this way, even if the charm effect would otherwise demand a action. You have a special ability that says that you "can use your action", so it must override other commands. But I totally understand how the writting is too vague and should be improved
But many other effects say "you can use your action" as opposed to "as an action." Are all of those viable while incapacitated?
I think you'd be wrong in the case of spells like fear and dominate person. Those duels specify that you *must* use an action to do something. Not that you lose the action to do something else.
Though I agree with your meaning.
TBH they should just get Immunity to fear & charm, devotion paladins get Immunity to fear & charm and can give it to everyone in 10ft from them, and Twilight cleric can end fear/charm without using an action in a 30ft radius.
Been racking my brain for some simple monk fixes.
I love these changes.
One of the minor tweaks I had come up with was adding proficiency bonus to KI total.
(Also hit die and martial die changes, but those were covered here)
And I think that grouping two features that are fairly minor to one level(like tongue of the sun and moon), then adding an additional ASI to the monk.
Edit: and also removing the Attack Action requirement to Flurry of blows and the Martial Arts bonus action unarmed strike.
(Less book keeping and frees up the action to use something like a healer's kit)
(Also did this for the War Priest subclass feature)
I've also thought that making stunning fist last 1d4 rounds (with a save on each subsequent round to shake off the effects) would make the monk FAR more useful/relevant in combat situations. Alternatively, giving them the ability to do a stunning strike for 2 ki cost, but with DISADVANTAGE on the save could have potential.
I'd personally give monks ki equal to their proficiency bonus + level, then change Stunning Strike so the creature instead gets to repeat the save at the end of each of their turns with Adv if they still have >50% of their hitpoints.
My own version of Stunning Strike has only small change: regardless of if the target makes their saving throw or not, they have disadvantage on their next attack roll before the end of their next turn. Its a minor debuff that I think makes Stunning Strike a much more reliable feature to spend your limited ki points on.
EDIT: Oh, one more minor change: if your attack was a critical hit, you don't have to spend ki points to use Stunning Strike on that attack.
@@jimmybob7873 Ooh, I like it. Might co-op that for my own games actually.
I do overall like this better than the PHB monk, but I do have a couple of issues with it. First, I do think that this basically cuts out almost all of the monk's uses for wisdom, and I think that plays against the fantasy of the monk quite a bit. I don't think it's that much of a problem balance-wise, but many of these changes minimize any incentive to put points in wisdom, which to me is part of the appeal of the idea of the monk. The next thing I'd argue against is the scaling on the martial arts dice. While on its own, I don't think it's too much of a problem, I do think that first, it would be something would be confusing on a conversion, and second, while I do think that martial arts needs a boost, I think that "catching up" to your baseline is a borderline problematic goal, especially in combination with stunning strike getting it's own resource pool. Now, I will say that I do like stunning strike getting its own resource pool, but considering monks can force up to 4 (or more, with multiclassing) saving throws, even ones that tend to be good, like constitution saves, and in this case would be doing them fully scaled up since they would rely on dexterity, I don't think their damage should be as close to the baseline as it would be given this build. At level 20 (I know, I know, not a likely scenario to be played at), you'd be forcing the boss monster to make 4 DC 23 saves a turn. While I think that might be fine on its own, that theoretical character should probably not also be on par in terms of damage. Something's got to give, and that might have to be damage in this case. I do think that generally, it's a good direction, but maybe it could use some more time in the oven, or some playtesting.
I'd love to see you use this approach to fix the four elements and sun soul monks now.
My Monk subclass fix video will be released next week.
@@TreantmonksTemple Cant wait! :)
I think a lot of monk's problems stem from wizard writing them as a sister class to rogues essentially, sharing hit die and dex saves/dex specialization.
only issue here is that rogues are also written to be very good at hit and run tactics or to excell at ranged combat to stay out of the way of danger or at least make it hard to be hit. and they don't spend resources to do it. Monk feels like they were worried about unarmed combat getting out of hand but forgot this game has wizards and paladins in it.
though, from a simplicity standpoint, at least monks let newer players /feel/ badass early, getting access to multiple attacks at the start without having to optimize or mess around with feats. They're very beginner friendly, i just don't understand why unarmed/two weapon combat is held so harshly back when smites, sharpshooter/GWM and sneak attack exist
I agree it's like there's clear oversight with the power scaling, especially when it comes to what you said above. Dipping into Hexblade fixes Paladin which would make you got why isn't Cha their main stat? Since they kinda need all 6 stats.
@@ExeErdna honestly, a paladin doesn't exactly /need/ hexblade dip. it's just the means to get the most damage. they would still be the most balanced martial offensively and defensively, WITH spellcasting and a damage burst feature that doesn't over-rely on their spellcasting stat. hexblade rewards a paladin for main stat-ing charisma, but str based paladins are by no means weak. not when they can just GWM and or polearm mastery and divine favor and start crit fishing that way.
Our group loves these changes! We came up with only two other modifications:
Changing the Ki save to use Dex instead of Wis - We use the highest of the two
Quickened Healing - We use it just like Second Wind - with no Ki cost but 1/shortrest resource pool. It heals less than Second Wind, even if you adopt all the scaling changes to martial arts dice . It can be a bonus action with a ki point instead of a full action.
Great changes. What we did for our game was apply the Open Hand monk archetype directly to the base monk chassis. The result was for the monk to lean harder into the control aspect with it's flurry of blows by knocking creatures prone and removing reactions and have an interesting high level ability to look forward to with quivering palm which was a feature base monk's could use in older editions.
good proposed fixes Chris! i like them. they're intuitive, balanced and doesn't make the monk suck too much anymore.
Gotta agree with a comment I saw down below about making the Martial Art's die scale by adding D4s instead of going D6 -> D8 -> 2D6 -> 3D6. Less confusing, feels similar to Rogue Sneak Attack. Last thing I want when keeping track of something scaling, is for the scale to change through the progression. It either needs to be consistently changing dice type, or consistently changing number of dice used, not one and then back to the other. If it meant that the Monk's baseline damage dropped down to literally baseline/every so slightly under baseline I'd be fine with the tradeoff.
Also loved the comment I saw about using Wis in place of Con for HP gained when leveling up (I'd assume for Hit Dice rolled during a Short Rest as well). It stands out in a cool "oh that's different!" way that's easy to keep track of while removing one of the Monk's problems (being MAD). It also maintains Wis as an important stat for Monks: with changing the save DC for Monks to Dex off of Wis without giving Wis another area of importance, Wis kinda ends up in this awkward area of "well its important for AC unless you get Medium Armour proficiency then you have literally no reason to invest in it". Kinda makes races that provide armour proficiency a bit *too* good for Monks without that additional reason to invest in Wis.
Quickened Healing I always thought was designed to be a way to use your remaining ki during a short rest to heal back up, since it otherwise goes unused, so I never thought it was too bad in that sense.
I’m most cases what remaining ki and if you have ki it just means you didn’t do much fighting.
Before the video what I do.
1. health die d10 like normal close range melee classes
2. Any weapon without the heavy attribute can be a monk weapon
3. Make their bonus action movement not cost ki you if that seems to overpowered make it only half their movement.
4. For way of the for element monk make any cantrip like addilities not cost ki, and make the spells cost ki equal to the spells level.
great video as always, just played a level 1 monk but it was already clear how the class was poorly designed
The discussion of Step of the wind made me think of one of the Monks themes: mobility. It'd be neat to design the class around a resource pool (ki?) that grants exploitation and manipulation of the action economy.
The rogues cunning action has no resource outside the action economy, but if the monk could use step of the wind (once per turn) at the cost of a ki point without it costing a bonus action.
This wouldn't jive with arguments about Monks limited ki pool, but more ki based abilities tied to hacking the action economy feels very Monk and distinguishes them in terms of flexibility.
I love the 2d6 and 3d6 for the martial arts die. I feel like a big part of monks is hitting plenty of attacks, and rolling multiple d6 makes it feel thematically like you've actually landed multiple hits at once
There is one thing I missed from your old version of the monk. It had a reaction to raise AC. Maybe if deflect missiles could work for melee attacks too? Just on one attack.
For the capstone, I'd want something more interesting. I'd keep the 4 ki regen while adding this : " Whenever you spend Ki, you may gain the benefit from another ki ability if it is less than or equal to the ki you spent. If the additional ability requires a bonus action, treat it as a free action."
Unsure if this would work well or break the game balance but one thing that came to mind as thematically appropriate gimmick might be to allow you to spend additional ki (on flurry, patient defence, and step of the wind) to use them without using a bonus action. You can only augment an ability in this way once during each of your turns, and it does not allow you to use the same ability more than once on a turn - so this doesn't allow you to flurry twice, but it does allow you to flurry and also make your normal martial arts bonus attack.
The fixes presented here have been really good, I have tested them in my group up to level 8, and it was good.
Quick Healing had a small issue however, at higher levels, you can spend all your ki point before a short rest and heal your full hit points instead of using hit dice. So perhaps having a "you can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. All spent uses are reganed after finishing a long rest" will help
They should get extra ASI at 6, 10, and maybe 14 (same as Fighters + Rogues). Make Ki equal to the monk level + wisdom modifier, and number of attacks in flurry of blows increase with proficiency bonus if staying in monk levels. Maximize dex and wisdom earlier, more ki early and overall, and more attacks than anyone else like a monk should be doing.
I think a fun capstone would be to play off a one inch punch. You could do something like, “when you hit with an attack, you can deal a number of D6s extra damage equal to the number of ki points you spend.” Just put a cap on how many ki points you can spend in one hit. This would let monks wait for that crit then do a ton of damage.
I don’t even know that you need to put a cap on it. If the 20th level Monk wants to burn all of their ki to deal 20d6 I don’t feel like it’s unreasonable. On average that would still only be 70 damage and they would be seriously limiting themselves until until they can rest.
That looks like good design, and is very much in line with the class design of the latest subclasses form Tasha's.
Always enjoy the analysis on where classes come up short. I frequently use your content to generate things to ponder and some pitfalls to look out for when I design stuff in 5e.
I'd rather approach monk damage through number of attacks instead of larger damage die/dice. Maybe biased from a character I played that abused 3e's double weapon rules and enchantments to get 9 attacks a round, but thematically, I do like monks getting the high volume of attacks.
Light/Medium armor reminds me of an earlier Sohei subclass pass I did using the monk chassis, but accommodating armor and weapon use required so much exception to the monk chassis that I reworked the concept to use the paladin class (a throwback to the 1e version in OA).
The d10 hit dice does make more sense based on the modern fantasy monk (heck, certain archetype versions would be d12, e.g. Final Fantasy).
I'm currently testing some TCoE-style optional features (this is the method I'm using to patch official content rather than rewriting them - rewriting feels more like a 5.5e deal). 5th level lets you choose one bonus action monk feature to reduce its ki cost by one (switch on LR), improving at 14th level to allow you to use a second monk bonus-action feature as part of the same bonus action. 9th level, regain 2 ki for a bonus action WisB/LR uses, 12th level FoB is 3 instead of 2 attacks, level 20 regain 4 ki if less than 4 ki when you roll initiative (Perfect Self fix, really).
One ki for each level is insufficient. After reading some ideas from others, I have homebrew the below to add to the existing monk class. Base on the theme that: Monks need to be wise to know when and how to use their ki.
Level 2
Ki points equal to monk level + proficiency bonus. You can only have a maximum of 20 ki points. Which meant that once you get to level 15, your ki points do not increase anymore. (It won't be too much as below are more features to spend ki points)
Ki Defence. As a bonus action you can spend 1 ki point to gain +1 bonus to AC for 1 minute. You can spend 2 ki points to gain +2 bonus to AC using this feature from level 7, and 3 ki points for +3 AC from level 14
Deflect Missiles
Starting at level 3, you can use your reaction to concentrate on deflect or catch the missiles when you are hit with weapon attacks until the start of your next turn. When you do so, the damage you take from a ranged weapon attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level. You can deflect up to 2 missles from level 8 and 3 missiles from level 15.
Level 3
Ki-Fueled Attack. You can spend one ki point at the start of your turn to gain +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn. You can spend 2 ki points to gain +2 bonus and 3 ki points to gain +3 bonus from level 8 and level 15 respectively. Your attacks using this feature count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. (In replacement of the feature under the same name. Mainly for the fact that monks don't get the benefit of magic weapons)
Level 6
Ki Refuel. On the first turn in a combat, you can spend one turn not moving and not taking any actions to regain 2 spent ki points (the regained ki points increases to 3 from level 13). You will be in the same state as under the Sanctuary spell until begining of your next turn (spell save DC = 8+PB+Wis Mod). Once you regain ki points this way, you cannot do so again until you finish a short/long rest.
Level 10
Ki Strike. You learn the way to concentrate your ki to deal additional damage with your attack. From Level 10 if you have not moved in your turn, you can spend one ki point to add one extra d6 to all damage rolls of your attacks in this turn. Your speed will become 0 for this turn. (No other features from 11-17 as many of them do scale)
Level 18
Supreme Ki Defence. You have practice ki defence for long enough that the effect become perminant. Your unarmored defence = 13 + Dex mod + Wis mod. You cannot spend extra ki points to gain the benefit of Ki Defence.
Thinking back to this video, one thing that really helped monks in my games was allowing their unarmed strikes to count as one handed melee weapons or letting them use some kind of cestus / brass knuckles. The first benefit this gave was allowing them to use the Dueling fighting style on their bonus action attacks and the second much more impactful benefit was letting their unarmed strikes be the target of spells like Elemental or Holy Weapon.
Great video, I am considering presenting this to my group.
One thing we have been using in my home campaign is stealing the idea of a ki focus from 4e. the idea works as follows. "Ki focus: the monk can attune to a magic weapon they are proficient in. (if a weapon does not require attunement, the monk can choose to do so to gain the benefits of this feature." When attuned to a magic weapon, the monk can apply the abilities of the magic weapon to their martial arts attacks. " This helps the monk keep up in a magic heavy campaign and is a quality of life feature in that all the monk's attacks can now use the same attack and damage calculation. it also removes the need for the insignia of the claw. and allows for a scaling version of the talisman to be built into the class. As a monk player, i found this to make the class far more enjoyable.
Bit late to the party here but I'll throw in my two cents. I'd do three other changes (1)-Unarmoured defence is 10+STR+WIS or 10+DEX+WIS whichever is higher. (2) Martial arts allows you to use STR, WIS, OR dex for to hit and damage, and you use the highest of these three stats when determining the DCS of your monk ability's (3) Diamond body is gained at 4th level but only grants one save;The monk gaining another save prof at 8th, 12th, and 14th.
The purpose of the first two are obvious:Allowing different styles of monks. Neither make the monk more powerful just more flexible in concept. Want to play a high init fast hitting monk like bruce lee? Go Dex. Want to play a grappling bruiser like Zangief? STR is there for you! Want to be an insightful old sage like Mr. Miyagi? WIS for you sir. The Last is more of a patch; Level 14 is way way too long to wait for diamond body, monks should be getting save bonuses before then if it's suppose to be something they're known for. Now some say this would cause all clerics/druids to multi-class monk for the WIS to hit bonus but uh... is a slightly better basic attack really worth it slowing spell progression on casters who never get extra attack? I think not.
My fix for damage scaling is just keep adding d4s. At 1st level, your unarmed attacks do 1d4 + Dex. At 5th, 11th and 17th level, add 1d4 damage to your damage with monk weapons or unarmed attacks.
It does a little more damage in the mid game and is easier to remember.
Thank you so much for doing this! I’m new to D&D and am super excited to roll my first PC as a monk, I’ve spend a couple month learning about the game and this class in particular. This video was super helpful on understanding not only the monk class better but the game better as well. Thank you again!! XOXO 🥰
I've got to admit this video was golden!
I would like to share my mind on all those suggestions and also ask a question.
Long Post Follows:
Having played 4 monks already (1 in a long running 4 years campaign that just wrapped up)
Especially him I never felt he was weak.
I even did the math and I was holding up with the rest of the party greatly. And actually began carrying them after getting Diamond Soul.
However I have to admit two things on that.
1) We had as a partly lots of encounters filled with saving throws. Especially the last three bosses. I didn't fail a singler saving throw. Diamound soul is a powerful ability that allowed me to win the war of atrition.
2) My monk had extremely good rolls on his stats.
I always thought the monk as a high AC class (coming from pathfinder) and my char had an AC of 19 at lvl 4 (With also an 18 Con) which seemed fine to me. Then as a DM I made a standard array monk and only managed to hit AC 17 at lvl 4. Somewhat lower but I was expecting standard array to be weaker, the real dealbreaker was that I had a 13 Con to achieve the same. With a d8 hit die.
Obviously Monks are MAD. But Paladins (a very thematically similar class in some aspects) while also being MAD do not need their secondy stat (charisma) as much from the get-go. They can afford to increase it at later levels, while protcted behind their heavy armors till then. Monks need both wisdom and constitution in order to survive.
Also Flurry of Blows damage scales a lot with Dex(Being able to apply the mod 4 times in a turn at lvl 5). More than i.e. a fighters damage scales with Str(At the same lvl)
So yeah Monks are MAD and all classes are better with high stats. ( And no class should be rated on how good you did on a random game of Yahtzee) but the Truth is Monks scale even more with ability scores than other classes... But also "Descale", if that's a word, equally hard if you decrease said ability scores.
So (TL/DR) one simple fix I was thinking before watching this video was giving them an additional ASI like Fighters and Rogues get. What's your take on this?
I made my own sun soul fix where radiant sun bolt used wisdom for its attack rolls, gave it hand crossbow range, and allowed a free single bonus action bolt so it matched cantrip damage. Then I put searing sunblast to 6th level and gave it scaling for number of ki u could spend so it better matched other spell casters who get fireball at 5th level. Still couldn't decide on s 11th level feature but it was a low level campaign. Cant wait to see Treantmonks fix ideas.
Enjoyed the breakdown! This looks like a fine list of homebrew fixes for the monk - a little more in terms of total number of changes than I typically look at myself, but I think it all adds up pretty well.
My (very basic) thoughts on how I'd do it myself would be: 1) one of these three survivability changes: Deflect missiles applies to all weapon attack, uncanny dodge at lvl 5, or remove the BA cost from step of the wind and patient defense. 2) Give more attacks - at lvl 11, make flurry of blows attack 3x instead of 2x, and then at either 17 or 20, make the attack action give one more attack.
Those two fixes don't completely fix the monk, obviously - but they're what came to mind for me as the 'lightest' possible fix that addresses the two major concern I have (bad survivability and bad dmg at higher levels).
This fixes are pretty good. Simpler and more effective than the previous ones. But the d10 change and the martial dice scaling change for me is enough to make it at least playable for most of subclasses
YOu revision to Perfect Self is fantastic. Very much in flavor of "enlightened superpowers of the sage monk".
I also like the hit die fix and especially Step of the Wind. I did that myself in a homebrew. When I did that, my player started using it a lot more often to make this thrilling chase scene with a wizard.
Another MA dice progression to consider: 1d6, 1d8, 1d12, 1d20.
It gives the same average damage as your proposed fix, except for the 1d12 which is 0.5 less damage than 2d6.
Love your work! Really appreciate your thoughtfulness not just around the math, but ease of use by players.
One thing I hear from DMs around Stunning Strike is that is too powerful because the player can spam it to attach the stunned condition in one round and that it's like getting to cast a spell 4 times in 1 round at 6th level. A fix for this with your additional uses via proficiency bonus (which I love) is to limit Stunning Strike to once per turn.
Do you feel this is too limiting? The player still gets to attempt a stun but essentially slows the rate at which they spend their ki. I feel like this would incentivize the use of other Ki costing abilities (like Patient Defense) and/or manufacture a way for Ki to last longer.
Thank you again for your work!
I think that's reasonable.
Interesting point. Maybe I'd allow for more then one attempt with some extra KI cost, before limiting it completely, just to see how it works out.
Maybe each additional SS is +1 KI if its on the same turn, up to a max of 2.
Though that doesn't change things much practically /mathematically.
Maybe 2KI cost/attempt after the first is better.
Thank you ver much. For the first time I will have a monk on my table.
And I will test your fixes :)
As a 1st edition Grandmaster of Flowers, I see what you are doing. The Oriental Adventures book had a similar damage die layout, relative to that editions mechanics. The armor change is *perfect*; simple, straight, and to the point. Most of these changes are quality of life changes to a class that has suffered for as long as the Monk class historically has. Lucky for us that we are great at suffering, lol. THese changes, taken as a whole, open up more varied characters being created, which is a very important development for the archetype as a whole.
I like a lot of this. Something I've come up with that I think would be cool is an additional Ki feature gained at level 2:
Combat Meditation: You can use your Bonus Action to roll your Martial Arts Die and regain that many Ki points, up to your maximum. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest.
Things I like about this: 1) it gives you more Ki to use, duh. Maybe you can play Elements Monk without wanting to cry 2) it uses your Bonus Action, and I think juggling what Bonus Action to use on any particular turn of comabt is actually kind of fun when playing a monk 3) it scales with your monk levels 4) it basically increases your Ki based on your Wisdom, which makes being MAD somewhat more bearable and fits thematically
Bonus Action, Martial Arts Die, Wisdom mod and Ki points, it uses almost every defining characteristic of the Monk and lets you do more of your Monk stuff.
I really like those changes , those are good simple and easy fix to apply . Goin try this out .
Good reasoning behind the changes. More martial arts and usage of armor makes sense. I felt something needed to be free, and something could have a separate pool of usage/resource.
My fav part is martial arts is usable with armor at the cost of unarmed movement. Clear choice one can make of playstyle.
Awesome video concept and I really hope you do one of these for Sorcerer and potentially Warlock
I've been a DM for about 13 years now, and the house rule I've enjoyed using for the monk in my 5e games has been the following:
Whenever a monk feature would have you expend one or more Ki points AND use an action, reaction, or bonus action, you can instead spend the base amount of required Ki points OR use the required action, reaction, or bonus action to use the feature. Any additional Ki points you could spend to enhance the feature can still be spent upon using it.
This is added to having Ki points recover on a long rest instead of a short, and the following line is included in the "Ki" feature: "Each feature that could be used through the expenditure of Ki can only be used once per Round."
While I've haven't been able to test it extensively in games due to a lack of players choosing monks, the players I've seen use it have had a blast.
Interestingly, monk is surprisingly close to the baseline if all you do is give them a second extra attack at lvl 11 (same a fighter), and then make flurry of blows 3 attacks at lvl 17.
Interesting. However, more attacks means the monk's turn will take up more time, every round. One fo the BIG merits of 5E is the fast round progression.
First of all, I'd just like to say thank you for presenting this video in such an organized way, including the recap around 22:00, because that makes assessing my own takeaway from this so much easier.
I'd say I think most of these changes make sense, though if I had to pick at any of them, it would be 2, 4, and 11.
2 because, while martial arts can certainly be done while wearing armor irl, that's not necessarily part of the class fantasy. It feels like something that should be given by a monk subclass, the same way Kensai gives a wider weapon selection. You're not actually giving them proficiency of course, so it's not that big of a difference, but if finding a way to get medium armor proficiency became part of typical monk optimization, it would really feel like it had strayed as a class.
4 because it makes sense to me that a monks more advanced techniques aren't simply physical but based on their senses, intuition, and state of mind. Between 2 and 4, the result feels too close to the class fantasy of simply being a battlemaster fighter with unarmed fighting, a swift and agile pugilist with unparalleled technique, not necessarily someone who lives a self-disciplined life detached from worldly pursuits.
11 because it's just too same-y. It's certainly balanced with the barbarian in a well-thought-out way, but a capstone shouldn't just feel powerful, it should feel unique. It is a lot to ask for, and I don't know if I could do a better job, but that's how I feel about it.
But that's it. I'm glad I went back and watched these. I'll watch the subclass video soon.
Some cool ideas there. I also made Step of the Wind not cost ki and Quickened Healing cost only 1 ki. I like the idea of short rest exhaustion removal for Timeless Body as well.
The main changes I made in "D&D Rebalanced: Classes and Subclasses" were:
- Proficiency with Light armor and longswords added.
- You can use your Dexterity score instead of your Strength score to calculate your jump distance.
- Flying Leap: You can spend 1 ki point to double your jump distance and increase your speed by 10 feet for that turn.
- Gain Ability Score Improvements at levels 4, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, and 19 (2 more than normal, like the Fighter)
- Stunning Strike: You can choose to spend an additional ki point to force the target to roll its Constitution saving throw with disadvantage.
- Focused Aim: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll the attack and take the second result, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
- New Feature - Deep Meditation: At 5th level, if you take 1 minute to sit still and mentally prepare yourself, you can use an action to enter a deep meditative state immediately after your preparation is complete. You gain 1 ki point for every uninterrupted period of 10 minutes that passes, up to 5 over the limit determined by your monk level.
- Ki-Empowered Strikes: Once on each of your turns, when you hit with an unarmed strike, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your monk level.
- Perfect Self: At 20th level, when you roll initiative against hostile creatures, you regain a number of ki points (to a maximum of10) based on the highest challenge rating of monster engaged in combat. (CR 5-15 = 3 ki; CR 16-20 = 4 ki; CR 21+ = 5 ki)
Rather than altering the martial arts die, I found that my change to Ki-Empowered Strikes did a good job to help the monk keep up with its damage, it also incentivizes doing at least one unarmed strike each turn regardless of the die type being used. I also think the balance of Dex and Wis is an important part of the class' identity. Giving additional ASIs was my solution.
My 5 cents in the matter:
- Proficiency in improvised weapons, they count as monk weapons.
- Martial Arts Die one step up: D6 > D8 > D10 > D12
- While wearing no armor add WIS mod to Strength ability checks and saving throws.
- Ki pool = level + WIS mod
- Ki options: Flurry improves to 3 attacks at level 11. Patient defense improves at level 11 letting you attack as a reaction when an attack or spell misses you. Step of the wind gives you both disengage and dash benefits as a bonus action, and at level 11 gives you flying speed for the turn as bonus action.
- Stunning strike: if the target is surprised, the delivering attack is a crit or product of a reaction (OA or Patient defense) the target does the saving throw with disadvantage.
I really like the change to the capstone. The +4 to con and dex is great. If that seems overtuned to some people I may suggest a +2 to wis, dex, and con.
Or go ham with some kind of +2 to all stats. And call it enlightenment of body and mind.
I think I would change un armored movement, to be unimpeded movement, you gain the same benefits but only when wearing armor that does not impose disadvantage on stealth. It allows light armor and breastplate. These don't limit movement as much. Also allows for medium mithral armor
Disagree. Monks thematically, usually dont wear armor. So its interesting to give them the choice to wear it but they have a drawback if they do. The most important thing was being able to use up to Med armor with martial arts since now we can multiclass properly. Since thats covered, I prefer a more interesting/strategic decision depending on what i'm going for.
@@toufexisk I guess I have different priorities. I agree with monks needing options, but monk needs flexibility beyond what may be wanted for multi classing. I was thinking in terms of ways to bolster choices for monks who want to be monks. So they don't loose all their features linked to no armor if they want to wear a breast plate or leather.
One thing I would like to see is a mechanic similar to the Barbarian rage. You can channel your Ki inwards to give yourself boosts like increased AC, immunity from certain statuses, resistances to certain types of damage, etc. Perhaps that could be the Stillness of Mind/Timeless Body. Stillness of Mind lets you spend a Ki to use a free action to gain immunity to mental effects (bypassing the "use your action" problem too), gain advantages on mental saves or skill checks, etc. Timeless Body does the same, but for physical effects, saves, and checks. Only one can be activated at a time, and each costs 1 Ki, but you could say "I channel my Stillness of Mind to gain resistance to psychic damage," and then next time "I channel my Timeless Body to gain +2 AC," and have both active. Maybe impose a maximum of 1/2 your Ki pool, and you have to make a constitution saving throw in order to maintain the effect if you're damaged.
I'm so glad that you are changing your aproach to monks. You went from absurd arguments that told you never played a monk like: "monk's mobility sucks because everyone can use a horse" in your "Monks sucks" video to actually playing a monk and having fun with it (Mercy) and now doing constructive criticism and proposing fixes for this very fun but maligned class.
Now on topic: all the short rest classes are balanced to have 2 short rest per adventure day according to DMG but in many tables that doesn't happen as we all know. If this works properly, monks could be spending 1 ki for round by level 6 or 8 (depending if your DM is closer to 6 or 8 combat a day) and that is great. I have 2 homebrew options to achieve that: 1) reduce short rest duration to 10 minutes as proposed in DMG optional rules and ignore the 30 min meditation required to regain Ki (you can limit the effective short rests to 2 times a day if you consider your players are abusing the mechanic) or 2) just triple the ki pool and make it a long rest mechanic, this is my prefered fix, it is simple, is accord to the intended balance and you aren't breaking anything.
Love that you are doing this for the monk. My suggestions below:
Martial arts die progression: 1d4, 2d4, 3d4, 4d4.
Give monks a "cunning action" for 0 ki for bonus action to include: single unarmed strike, dodge, disengage, dash
I do like the wis-based for casting.
I like the d4 suggestion!
We already have the unarmed strike in Martial arts though. Dodge for free as a bonus action is a bit much.
Step of the wind could also function differently: costs a bonus action, but you can spend 1 or more ki points and for each point used you leave behind a mirror image of yourself that lasts until the end of your next turn.
Great job with these monk fixes. I'd like to add two friendly suggestions...: 1.) ki: dex OR wis mod... 2.) add an additional benefit for using unarmored defense (maybe increased damage with unarmed strikes).
Monk fighting styles. At level 2.
1. Great Strike Style: +2 damage with unarmed strikes.
2. Evasion: +1 Monk's AC while not wearing armor.
3 Sage: +1 to the difficulty of saving the monk's rolls.
At 10th level, the ability to choose one more style or boost one previous one by +1 value.
At 18th level, the ability to also take one of the styles or boost the value of one by +1.
You know, I missed this when you first posted it... But when I rebuilt Monks for my custom campaign (I rebuilt basically all the base classes), I did most of the things you do here... I made martial arts die larger (though not quite as high as you went at the high end), unarmored defense use Proficiency bonus+Dex, made some ki powers 'free', reduced the cost of Quickened Healing, fixed stillness of mind (though by letting them use a reaction to nullify those effects which was simpler wording), and a handful of other things. However, I also added some features of Drunken Master like redirecting attacks as a reaction (and removed the ki cost) and 'leap to your feet'. Which feel like things all monks should be able to do.
Of course then I rebuilt literally all the subclasses as well, though I did that for all the classes and not just Monk. So we had some very similar thoughts.
I just come up with a small fix for Astral Self monk is that your dedicated weapon(the TCE feature) will also show up as a part of your astral arm. You can use your astral arm attack as if you are using your dedicated weapon, and the damage type will be force damage and if it is a melee weapon than it will extent it's reach by 5 feet.
Let's face it, silver chariot uses an rapier and the emperor is a gun. So stand can use weapons, and can be ranged.
I made 3 simple changes to monk, and it had drastic results: all I did was bump the martial arts die (d6-d12), add wisdom modifier to ki points, and gave them a a d10 hit die. I also just told my monk player that stillness of mind just works, RAI in this case not RAW, so not a change so much as a ruling.
I additionally added 2 more complex features, at 11th level the monk can redirect any attack not just ranged attacks, and still “throw it back” if they reduce it to 0, and for level 20 perfect self I gave them a resistance of their choice which they can change at the start of their turn.
I do like your idea of stealing the barbarian feature though, monks hunger for better base stats, and empty body as a bonus action seems good
We have only gotten to lv 7 so far so I haven’t tried all of these, and I bumped the subclasses on a case by case basis.
Have you considered modifying features to augment damage rather than dice pool values? For instance rather than changing the monk damage die to multiple dice from 11th level on, you could effectively multiply damage by adding paralysis to the stunning strike feature. This doesn't address the problem of landing a stun but it puts individual strike damage on a stunned target in range with your improved dice pools. It may still have issues but could be a simpler solution mathematically.
I think they Should have a d12 as a Hit die. they are about perfecting the body. so it make sense
I think either Giving them the option to add Wisdom to their monk hit die HP or add half of the wisdom mode when they level up would cover up the obvious shortcoming they get instead of the barbarian.
I think the Monk progression should be a die size increase but I would increase the number of attacks of Martial arts and flurry of blows as they level up.
Diamond soul I think should come earlier but progress not all saving throws at once. maybe 1 save at 7 , 2 saves at 11, all saves at 14
as the versatile damage increase I would say make it +2 that would keep up and match most fighting styles . the thing is there is no drawback for using two hands. you can use shields normally and your two hands won't be super occubide all the time so you can still use deflect missiles
d12 hit die outright doesn't seem very thematic to me, but it would be interesting as a later feature, for Timeless Body for example.
@@antongrigoryev6381 HD increase for Timeless Body, never thought of that, but I like it.
I like all of the changes except making DC Dexterity, the change to quickened healing, and the change to perfect self (I made it so that you recover 5 ki at the start of initiative, no matter the amount of ki you're at, to a max of 20). Thank you a lot. As a DM, I struggle with balancing things for my players. A couple of my players only care about flavour, and some only care about power, so making sure that all classes are at least close in power is very helpful. I wouldn't really want to nerf anything, but I'm totally fine buffing weaker things. I'm going to pitch this to my group and see if they like it.
Great suggestions, I ran a lv 20 one shot with a Monk, Fighter, and Barbarian and it was obvious after a few combats that the monk was just incredibly under performing. As I recall his output of damage was about 25% less every turn than either of the other 2 and cost him Ki. By the end of it they had killed over 100 creatures and his self counted "kill counter" was in the single digits still.
This is definitely a step in the right direction, though I would still keep the save dc as 8+ prof +Wis or some variation that keeps wisdom in the mix. The reasoning being, one could look at monks as a melee focused half-caster with a vary limited spell selection. Just like other half-casters, the monk gets another resource pool at lv 2 just like paladins and rangers; however, the ranger is less penalized defensively for a diverse ability score spread (if they stick to ranged attacks) than the monk. The paladin makes up the 3 primary needed stats with armor proficiency. That all said to see a monk as a half caster and removing Wisdom from the big 3 stats seems to go against the spirit of having a mental ability scores as a need balance between physical and mental scores.
Where are the spell slots as I see it spell casting means options, for monk it just lv 2 feature and stunning strike but really stunning strike and furry blows. Then dex base dc is good because at least it has a decent chance on landing on a CON save since you are giving up damage for it. Don’t forget still using wisdom on armor class perception and insight
I like a lot of what you put in here, thank you.
Deliberately very humble, but this isn't just an opinion. It's analysis, numerical analysis. Some people think that feelings constitute data. Monk is aesthetically my favorite class. It's a horrendous class mechanically.
Although you had already made a video with your improved versions of the original classes, I’ve been waiting for a vid FOCUSED on trying to fix the Monk. Thank you so much Treant Sensei
Edit: I loved how the changes were exactly what I expected, all the way to the end, including borrowing the Barbarian Capstone, which I thought would be great to adapt for the Monk!
These changes definitely make the Monk an interesting and exciting class to play
Maybe on the DPR graph at the end you could have included the current 5e Monk line so we would get a better idea of the improvement
I think an additional set of changes, in line with your framework, would be to lighten the load on the Diamond Soul feature and spread the save proficiency to other flavor features, making them purposeful. Stillness of Mind for INT saves, Purity of Body for CON saves, Tongue of the Sun and Moon for CHA saves, and Diamond Soul for WIS saves. End power is the same, and thematically cool as your monk's growing mastery of their ki grants measurable combat prowess.
This fix opens up more races:
Unarmored Defense: Your AC is equal to 10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your proficiency bonus. Your training in martial arts (proficiency) supersedes your natural defense (Dexterity).
Martial Arts: When you make attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons that lack the heavy or two-handed properties, you can use your Wisdom modifier on your attack and damage rolls. Your understanding of combat, finding weaknesses, and intuition allow you to strike more effectively.
Ki already uses WIS modifier for calculating target save DCs (Ki save DC= 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier). So there is no need to change this.
Deflect Missiles: The damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your monk level. Your sixth-sense and awareness of your surroundings allows you to use your reaction to avoid attack.
Or
Deflect Missiles/Iron Body: Starting at level 3, when you are hit by a ranged or melee weapon attack, as a reaction, you can spend 1 ki point to duplicate the effects of (cast) the shield spell.
Initiative Checks: You can add your Wisdom modifier to initiative rolls.
This allows for Strength (grapple checks/athletes), Dexterity (acrobatics/additional defenses), or Constitution (for more HP) builds. Get Wisdom to 20 asap, then focus on what you want most.
An issue I see with Stillness of Mind is that because it still uses up your action, you cannot use your bonus action take make unarmed strikes since both the Martial Arts feature and Flurry of Blows specify an Attack action must be used beforehand. I think immunity is more fitting, especially since Paladins gain immunity at 10th level and they grant that bonus to everyone in 10ft.
Great ideas! I've been working on a bit of a PHB balance pass for my tables, as I find a lot of the subclasses are lacking that originate from the PHB, my design philosophy is very similar to yours, with it being:
A) I'd rather buff things than nerf things (it's much more socially acceptable to see your favorite class being buffed; compared to seeing your favorite class be nerfed)
B) Simple changes, the core class and subclass experience should remain the same.
C) 5e Design Consistency. I don't like how the PHB has several subclasses that aren't consistent with the newer subclasses in terms of expanded spell lists, for example, so this is changed.
D) No class should be detrimentally weak, but I'm okay with classes I buff being a little bit behind the curve -- and I tend to aim for something to be middle of the pack, as opposed to being on par with some of the stronger options.
Monks was something I knew were going to need a lot of work, so I'm happy I found this video to draw inspiration off.
For Martial Arts I have went with "The Martial Arts die is increased to 1d4 at 1st level, 2d4 at 5th level, 3d4 at 11th level, and 4d4 at 17th level.", the damage die remains consistent and comparatively to your values the difference is only a mere 0.5 above/behind. The only exception to that is 1st level, where you already agreed during the video that they didn't need a significant buff prior to 5th level anyway.
I agree Ki needs a drastic change, I'm not quite sure what I'm specifically going to do with it yet -- however. For my specific design philosophy changing Step of the Wind to not use Ki would be a violation of my 2nd rule but I do agree that Step of the Wind is kind of useless. At the moment, as of writing this, I'm actually thinking about doubling the Ki monks get, but also doubling the Ki spend by *most* features. This would provide more nuance between the weaker features and the stronger features. This would mean that Patient Defense and Flurry of Blows would require 2 Ki, but Step of the Wind would only require 1 Ki. My idea might shift overtime, though, but I know this in particular would help balance out the Four Elements monk. The only downside I see to this is book keeping becomes a little harder, but since I play on a virtual tabletop that isn't a problem for my group.
Additionally, the Perfect Self change you suggested goes against the 2nd rule as well. I'd argue for something similar to base feature Perfect Self, but with the stipulation that it works even if you have Ki, and maybe a slight number tweak as well. "At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have fewer than 10 ki points remaining, you regain 10 ki points." this would ensure you always had resources for your abilities (that always feed off the same one resource), effectively giving you half of your points back every time you enter combat. Just a bit of a thought.
All-and-all, I really enjoyed your insights and they helped me with my own projects, I can't wait to see what you do to the subclasses!
I don't know why monks have a d8 instead of a d10. Tematicaly monks have trained their body at least as much of as a fighter
The emphasis is 'at least'. Listen to Phillip at ruclips.net/video/FQg5b6bagGs/видео.html
they are not a front liner they are a scraper type pluse they can reduce damage in different ways