Nice show, boys. I’ll cherish my memory of working directly with Kevin; wherein I wrote dialogue (alongside Marv Wolfman and the late-great, Dwayne McDuffie), cast, and directed Mr Conroy in an iconic role. An honor to watch him work. RIP, Mr Conroy.
the one two punch of Kevin Conroy passing and then watching a three hour long tribute to Chadwick Boseman has made this a pretty emotional week. If you haven't gotten a chance to read Kevin's comic from the DC 2022 pride special please do, it's an amazing read
Are you serious? Actually getting emotional about it? I mean…..I’m not a psychopath. I experience and understand emotions the same as 99% of people but this is just asinine 🤦♂️
The reason why the fish people don't die at first is because they do have enhanced durability, but they are weak against sonic weapons, is shown when Shuri is rescued.
@@CursedWheelieBin the same power explanations were in comic books all the time, I don't get why people get pissy about it when it's in a different medium
Beware The Gray Ghost is my favorite Batman episode, *it always hits me emotionally.* I'm sure the next time I watch it, I'm going to burst into tears.
53:49 I actually did get the sense that Namor had like an unlimited army in part because of the look of Talokan. The difference between this and Wakanda is that the Black Panther is treated as like the protector, the ruler and like a respected symbol of the nation which is passed down through the ages, whereas Namor is literally treated as a God King, a seemingly immortal supremely powerful being who rules over them. Wakanda has the feeling more like a conventional monarchy, where there are somewhat defined clans/tribes loosely organized under one sovereign, while Talokan feels more like Egypt or an absolute monarchy, where nearly all power is invested in the single person, so the resources are directed towards that one person, and the rest of the society is built around that.
So happy to hear someone spreading the good word of Jenny Nicholson! I discovered her videos during covid and binged all of them. Her videos about Evermore and Bronycon are some of her best work
I loved Wakanda Forever!! it was definitely a character driven movie versus a plot driven movie, so you have to care about the characters and be interested in their story, otherwise you would find it really boring, but I cried through probably half of it!!
This is a secret Disney Princess love story between Namor and Shuri. ruclips.net/user/postUgkx-A4g0FVlhwSLfH6NH1Kzq4Ck5OsvbnNX He took her to see his underwater kingdom and gave her his mama's bracelet, they technically married.
Yea I thought it was really well done, given the circumstances. A great tribute to Chadwick, really good character development, and the stakes felt high and the achievements shuri made felt earned
I don’t find character driven movies boring. Also all movies need a plot. That’s a stupid statement. This movie is just way too long and messy so that’s what made it boring to me. The Batman for example is a character driven movie, who’s plot actually works, is the same length & most importantly NOT BORING.
@@JJGaming2010 It looks crap 🤷🏻♂️ Every positive thing said I’ve read about it has just been clichéd, vague, recycled platitudes written by people desperate to prove their practiced virtue 🙄
Kevin will forever be my batman, I spent hours upon hours with him whether that was watching the cartoons or on the many many play throughs of the Arkham games. Thank you Kevin for all the good times and may you rest in peace.
I hope Godzilla & Kong is a buddy cop movie like Turner & Hooch. Not sure if Kong would be the straight man w/ Godzilla making a big mess or the other way around.
I want to see the behind-the-scenes of the screenwriters deciding which country to throw under the bus at the beginning of the movie. Someone is just like, "France is the worst. Make it France." And everyone else just looks at each other and are like, "Yeah, sure."
Of the imperial powers, France is the only one with a wide expanse and claim over influence in Africa. Brits have Nigeria and Kenya mainly, with other nations having influence in certain countries, but an easy third of the continent is Francophone. Wakanda set its outreach in service of Black/African people across the Diaspora, with the centers placed in the communities. It would make sense that a third of Africa being Francophone would draw the interest of the French to one of the sites in their orbit
Spoiler: . . . . . Yes, Okoye's suit is visually identical to the version of it in comics, and they are named what they're named in the film. Midnight Angels are a small stealth clandestine group of elite Dora Milaje with a cloaked ship for carrying out international or wetworks missions. The design seems to be later versions of an earlier gold colored power suit smuggled out of Wakanda by a male character that was banished and ended up in NYC, but who snuck tech and vibranium with him on his way out to sell to global powers during a Black Panther / Daredevil issue from the 70's. That may sound familiar because it's loosely the same story plot that was adapted to Killmonger's origin in the film, though in the one shot it's a throw away story and the Wakandan was a disgraced military figure who T'Challa has come out to deal with because he received word that the exile was being abusive to his partner. After being a real dog of a bloke, the exile chooses to later sacrifice himself in a fight for the good of Wakanda. Daredevil is upset that Black Panther allowed it, arguing they should have "saved" him, while Black Panther responds that saving him is precisely what they did. Random story point: Shuri in the comics becomes Leader of Wakanda as well as the Black Panther, while T'Challa is dead. T'Challa comes back from the Ancestral Plane ala Moon Knight, and has gained powers over the dead from an Egyptian God in addition to his own thing with the Panther spirit. He remains Black Panther while Shuri remains leader. Shuri eventually "dies" but is locked in a state of frozen animation for a long while while T'Challa tries to find a solution. There's been a lot of dipping into main story beats from the comics, reordering them or reframing them in ways that serve MCU. So this plot shift I would say is similar to maybe what occurred with Aunt May.
Near the end of wakanda forever, there is a scene where Shuri is reminiscing about T’Challa. It’s supposed to be sad and what not. But in my theater, there was a man audibly snoring throughout the scene. I can’t think of a better way to describe wakanda forever. Chadwick Boseman deserved better.
So men can't sit through a serious drama anymore? Once Upon a Time in America in the early 80s had more hours and long silent moments. I fell asleep the first time I watched Godfather Pt I.
@@suzygirl1843 I’d hardly call this a “serious drama” it is literally labeled as an action/adventure movie lmao you’re fkn reaching. But sure if this is a drama then The Batman was an even MORE serious drama and everyone loved that movie. Your point is mute. Apparently it’s wrong for people to not like this movie.
@@suzygirl1843 so women can’t sit through the godfather? So women can’t sit through schindlers list? So women can’t sit through the help? So women can’t sit through taxi driver? Gtfoh
@@suzygirl1843 Not sure. I didn’t like the Godfather either but I think a lot of that was that it’s been hyped up endlessly so my expectations couldn’t be met, even if I really tried to pretend it was just some random film. Anyway a lot of us men find THINGS slightly more interesting than PEOPLE, overall (left-brain dominant). That’s not set in stone but an engaging story with a problem that needs to be solved is more likely to be interesting to men than subtle, melodramatic characterisation. We’re “problem solvers” (in theory anyway) 😄. I remember I sat through this great film called “The Place Beyond the Pines”. My fiancée found it boring but I was on the edge of my seat for the 160 min runtime. Maybe what we’re discovering is that phase 4 is very feminine and it’s alienating a lot of men who want some excitement, adventure and heroism and not tedious lectures, ADHD TikTok humour, and labels
The music in black panther does not miss. Kendrick Lamar (Paramedic!) on the first soundtrack was amazing. Though it’s completely different, Con la Brisa on wakanda forever was AMAZING. the tour of Talokan when they play it was also amazing. The Talokans (?) playing the hip ball game during it took my breathe away. Such a cool way to respect the Indigenous culture. Makes me wish Disney wasn’t so involved because Marvel does villains the best.
Posted only 14 minutes ago? I'm so early. What's the time difference from Australia to England. Are you broadcasting this from the future!? MIND BLOWN!
Bummer about Kevin Conroy. But speaking of which. Have either of you listened to HBO's new old-timey Batman radio show? I think Batman is voiced by the guy who played Gordon in The Batman. I also heard Jason Sudeikik and Chris Parnell.
Just came back from seeing Wakanda Forever a fourth time. I might break my record and see it seven times. 😚 It's a good and necessary escape for me. The pacing was perfect for me because they didn't linger on any scene for too long. It's never felt long to me. It flies by. I'd have liked for some scenes to be longer, tbh. It lovingly eulogized a man who meant a lot to millions of people (myself included) and moved the story forward. Namor's characterization was great as well (I really liked him). All the main cast acted their butts off, especially Angela and Letitia. I'm addicted to this movie, tbh.
@@suzygirl1843 it’s not boring because it’s 3 hours. It’s boring because it has a messy plot where nothing happens and character motivations are stupid. The Batman is the same runtime, and arguably way slower than this movie. Yet the Batman had an interesting plot. That’s why it wasn’t boring.
@@suzygirl1843 I don’t know why you’re assuming I don’t like old movies that are long? Lmao where did that come from? The runtime is not what makes it bad but it sure as hell makes it noticeable how boring it is
He was definitely the most memorable for me cos I grew up watching the animated show on Saturday mornings. Fast forward to 2008 and I downloaded a free a demo for Arkham Asylum. I instantly recognised that voice of his and was hooked! 🦇
Doug Walker, of all people, somehow managed to sum up how important to the character Conroy was when he said, "When it comes to the sound of Batman, it will always be Conroy and people trying to sound like Conroy."
This is what I love about you guys, the honesty, the movie wasn’t the best and I completely agree with your points, dull city, poor pacing, not a good story, just murky backstories, no context where it is needed, too long and as saddd as it is? It is missing Chadwick and tbh from this I’m certainnnn Ryan shouldn’t make Secret Wars
I can't believe I never knew Conroy was gay until after he died :/ He will be so missed, and I hope that whoever takes up the role next does something original, rather than trying and failing to ape such a unique performance.
the part about not killing namor was very different from other movies. the point is namor is a godlike figure and killing him would start a blood feud between the two nations. shuri isn't againts killing in principle, she just accepts that she has broader responsibillites
I think it was kind of weird when Namor was playing "Marco Polo" when he was in battle against Wakanda's forces. It was also weird when the shark from 'Jaws' showed up and said "N-YUK N-YUK N-YUK!"
Heroes Reborn was my first full comic arc as a kid. It turned me into a life long Franklin Richards fan. He was a little boy creating pocket realities and I was little boy reading him do it. My 2nd run was Superman blue. So I have a weird thing about loving superman blue (but not superman red)
I think I need to watch it again with glasses. I forgot them when i went to the cinema. Everything was already murky and foggy, but me being half blind didn’t help much
@@suzygirl1843 fuck shuri. Bad actress and extremely annoying character. Give it to Okoye or Nakia or someone who has any background in actual fighting. Literally any of the Dora milaje would make a better black panther.
@@imanoldurango8213 See how people WANT it to be good rather than just taking it for what it is? This is basically a cult. If it’s for a Marvel logo above it then we need to “give Shuri a chance”🙄 as though we’re donating to a charity by buying a ticket. The overwhelming majority just watch this stuff and move on with their lives.
I'm surprised that Mason didn't mention how Namor is essentially yet another Marvel villain with a sympathetic backstory, who at a certain point in the movie decides he's going to "kill all the surface dwellers" because the plot needs the conflict to happen.
I think Black Panther was an impossible ask handled the best it could. The script feels like all the Namor stuff was written in response to the criticisms of T’Challa in Black Panther as a way to give him a fully arc analyzing the role of Wakanda and it doesn’t work so well with a different character who didn’t have those criticisms in the first place. The other half that’s the Shuri’s ascension stuff is okay but there’s a reason Letitia Wright was never cast as a lead in the first place, she’s good but can’t replace a legend. I thought it’s consistently funny how absurd Julia Louis Dreyfus keeps making her performance. The horniest character in the MCU
@@suzygirl1843 sure. If iron man 1 in any way belonged to the creative minds that are responsible for the mcu as we know it. But it was made by a completely different studio with different agendas
@@MicoDossun I think the "lack of star power" critique could be said about Thor as well. Or Aquaman. Hence surrounding them with higher caliber actors. Ultimately I think the material they get matters a lot, and I personally found that Wright gave an excellent performance.
Namor commands the oceans, and the sea life is clearly on their side, so he can count both the people and all the fish. So, yeah, he may very well have more soldiers than Wakanda has blades of grass. Also, Shuri didn't take out Namor because it would have led to eternal war, and she finally realized that it wasn't what her mother would have wanted. The Everett Ross stuff is likely because they didn't want to gamble on a totally black/brown film. It's like the white subplot in the first season of Pose (when ballroom was made as a response to discrimination in the drag scene, so that subplot wasn't really relevant). I'm not complaining, as I do think the U.N./Ross were relevant to the plot. But yeah. 😙 Regarding little T'Challa, maybe they added the son to kind of satisfy those misog--guys who complained about T'Challa not being recast. I feel they also double-dipped by suggesting that M'Baku might try to lead. And yet the haters are STILL angry and hateful. So, they might as well have not bothered. ETA: I thought Talokan looked like what a native village would look like in the wake of colonization, only underwater. I think making it look like some goofy Disney funhouse would have been disrespectful. The way they realized it was grounded, and I liked the caverns and the main "hall," so to speak. Also, they needed to avoid anything that would make it look like Aquaman.
I agree in regards to the UN being relevant, you can definitely be cynical and say they were just setting up Thunderbolts, but honestly I was kind of impressed it wasn't wrapped up neatly and that Wakanda is just a big target now. It's gloomy, but it is true to life, wars don't just stop because you beat up a flying fishman.
Not all of the recast T'Challa people are hateful or misogynistic. I personally wanted to see him recasted because I've always loved the character and he's too important to the Marvel mythos to kill off IMO. I also gave the film a fair shot and loved it, it was a beautiful tribute to Chadwick and T'Challa junior was brilliant. He might even be more like comic book T'Challa, overly paranoid and over powered. You shouldn't make generalizations about large groups of people.
I would say Ross is relevant as far being the one genuine ally to them outside of Wakanda, even the Avengers are neccessarily close to Wakanda beyond Steve and Bucky but Steve is gone and Bucky doesn't really have any "pull" in the world.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds just because you complain about not recasting doesn’t mean your misogynistic. They just chose the worst character to take the mantle. Idc that it’s a girl now, I care that it’s a girl who has no right or reason to be the black panther. Give it to okoye or nakia or he’ll even Angela basset’s character would’ve made a better black panther. Also fkn bullshit that nobody is gonna challenge shuri for the throne.
People have been asking why I was not in this, it is because when I went to kill an enemy I electrocuted him to death. They expected me to use “prop effects” doom does no such thing!
The last battle was then standing on top of a big flat boat and was a jumbled mess lol. BP like ran around on the side for two minutes and did nothing cool. Then the Talocans slaughtered basically all the Wakandans. Great job Shuri.
her first battle as Black Panther and they were in the middle of the ocean so I would be wonderfully surprised if the Wakandans actually won that fight
Screw bran stark. Podrick should push him out of a window. An even higher window than his first time plummeting. Jeez that brought some rage back thanks fellas
They could do the Goku and say T'Challa doesn't want to come back. Make it an uplifting message about how Wakanda no longer needs him and then establish Killmonger as being selfish, still has rehabilitation to achieve and grow through.
@@suzygirl1843 T'Challa would be the one saying Wakanda no longer needs him, using how much the nation has grown after losing his father, and his father before him. A legacy message about how Wakanda will forever move forward and upward in spite of their losses. It makes sense to me
1:32:00 I adore James being to Elon what Hannibal Burress was to Bill Cosby. He has been saying this for years as have many and finally he is being vindicated in the mainstream.
My theater's sound system was dreadful and too loud which really dampened my experience, making it harder to really connect with the emotional beats. I feel kind of beat over the head with grief in superhero stories after this phase had every single Disney+ series feature it so it's no longer a new concept and as a result this didn't feel special. There are some incredible performances of some really bad lines, Angela Basset and Winston Duke are killing it out there doing a great job. Namor was pretty solid i thought, shocked that he looked as cool and intimidating as he did with the silly little wings. Theres is a lot of way too on the nose dialogue like Mason mentioned. To me, this felt like just a movie- and too much of one. I'll watch it again eventually on disney+ and see how better soundscape does to help the movie.
For what it's worth the comics have been kicking around the threat of the Infinity stones for quite some time after the Infinity War comics. I think they just wrapped up a miniseries where the power of the stones ended up trapped inside 6 heroes/villains. I'd genuinely love to see a War of the Realms story at some point. Hell if I had my way we'd get an entire phase set in Battleword where every movie is just set in one of the weird multiverse fragments that make up the world. A weird film noir movie where Black Bolt is a detective, a Mad Max style Ghost Rider flick, a Wild West Hawkeye film. Just go bonkers with it.
@@N313GrayFox I love how you love that. T'Challa says MAYBE we can heal you. Killmonger doesn't just pull the spear out of his own gut and then continue to have a big standoff with BP. Let's not even mention the fact that Namor could have easily just jumped into the ocean real quick after the jet crashed. But no, plot reasons.
@@tylertate3584 T'Challa says "maybe we can still heal you." KM doesn't just stand and keep fighting with a huge hole in his gut (shit Shuri's was through her whole body).
@@bad72690 I can't understand people blindly defending these movies anymore. It's like it's personal to them or something. Let's be honest these Marvel movies lately have been bang average at the very best
There's always the Infinity Crusade. I'd perfectly happy with them redoing the story but the way it's supposed to be with the Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock.
I will say the pacing was a bit off and Black Panther, specifically, I think the addition of the Riri Williams plot caused the beginning to kind of drag a bit. As much as I loved her and I’m excited to see her show, I think it would’ve been better to wait to introduce her then, than to shoehorn her into this movie. I think that time should’ve gone to exploring this new civilization they introduced.
I don’t think she’s shoehorned into this. She’s the scientist that made that vibranium-detecting machine instead of a random scientist. Plus she’s the reason for that major death too
Yes, but the circumstances of her being included are very contrived, and would’ve been easily replaced with simpler explanations that would have allowed more time for other things. We learn about Namor but not enough about his world. Like I said, I liked her, but objectively the beginning drags, it’s a little too long, and people have a lot of questions about Namor like how does he have so many soldiers, and how do they avoid detection, etc, so it would have made more sense to not include her and spend more time under water.
@@imanoldurango8213 exactly, and I enjoyed her character so it worked for me, but objectively removing her sun plot would have given more room for the exploration of Namor’s world.
I want some of the better newer stories from the comics but I also want them to get to that point first, we still have loadsssss more story to tell and I mean a shit ton load of ideas we could use before we even reach the newer comics, some of the newer ones are just terribleeee tho, it’s either more MCU toned or setting up stories the MCU could use, there’s no individuality with comics anymore it’s just allll for one narrative, whereas anything after Marvel NOW in the comics is just hit and miss, I think they should do some stories again maybe and do it properly but for some titles we have what we get and in the end, what can we do about it 😂 1:09:25 EXACTLYYYY THAT, I just think they’re gonna fuck it up and mess it up soo badly, I love Marvel I love their comics and always have but pfffttt they really do some of these comics dirty, age of ultron, civil war, dark phoenix etc, I want to see it done properly I do so let’s see, and the infinity stones and Thanos come back multiple times in the comics, not just that one comic and one story so I actually want them both to return so that could work
So if Shuri becomes Black Panther in Wakanda Forever, what’s to stop an M’baku or a Killmonger from declaring trial by combat, knocking out a teenage girl, and claiming the title of Black Panther/King of Wakanda?
@@nuffsaidny after taking the herb she should could easily have no problem standing up against him, the plot hole is how the herb downloaded wakanda panther kungfu into her brain cause all she ever did before shoot a gauntlet but after the herb shes doing black flips down the side of a boat swing kicking goons,
I really think Shuri should’ve killed Namor. Not only would it make sense for her character (she’s still mourning her brother and this guy killed her mom a few days ago), it would also tie into Killmonger appearing to her in the spirit world and imo would be a much more interesting development. It would make her decision to give up the throne and that scene on the beach hit even harder since it would be because she couldn’t live up to T’challa’s legacy.
Would be a bit of a downer ending, to have Shuri give into revenge, given T'challa's central lessons as a character were to resist that temptation. Definitely would be interesting but probably too uneasy to leave us feeling as if the future of the franchise was a failure to live up to the inspirational former leader, both in and out of fiction.
I mean i don't mean to be 'that' guy...but my years have been getting better. I fully understand i am in a VERY small margin lol. But the Conroy news was just awful, RIP an absolute legend.
Honestly, I always feel bad for saying this, but Covid was the best thing to happen to me financially. My pay has nearly doubled since 2019 and it's because we had to put several employees on break and I had to pick up the slack and ended up getting pay raise after pay raise.
Kevin Conroy absolutely warrants an episode dedicated to him.
I already miss him
@@mathewblaine1109 That's what happens when people die.
Yess
Good idea!
Here you go:
ruclips.net/video/Y2XBN8pbXkM/видео.html
Kevin Conroy warrants a whole month or appreciation
I just get goosebumps everytime i hear a Conroy story. That man was a legend upon legends.
Same
Nice show, boys. I’ll cherish my memory of working directly with Kevin; wherein I wrote dialogue (alongside Marv Wolfman and the late-great, Dwayne McDuffie), cast, and directed Mr Conroy in an iconic role. An honor to watch him work. RIP, Mr Conroy.
the one two punch of Kevin Conroy passing and then watching a three hour long tribute to Chadwick Boseman has made this a pretty emotional week. If you haven't gotten a chance to read Kevin's comic from the DC 2022 pride special please do, it's an amazing read
Are you serious?
Actually getting emotional about it?
I mean…..I’m not a psychopath. I experience and understand emotions the same as 99% of people but this is just asinine 🤦♂️
@@CursedWheelieBin "I experience and understand emotion" is not something someone who actually does would ever say
@@CursedWheelieBin You clearly don't feel emotions the same as 99% of people or you'd fully understand.
@@CursedWheelieBin Did you know that if you can't relate to another person it's possible to just shut up?
@@CursedWheelieBin You know who says stuff like "I'm not a psychopath" and "I experience emotions"?
Psychopaths who don't experience emotions.
The reason why the fish people don't die at first is because they do have enhanced durability, but they are weak against sonic weapons, is shown when Shuri is rescued.
Yeah I’ll give that a miss. I’m getting way too old for this shi*
@@CursedWheelieBin the same power explanations were in comic books all the time, I don't get why people get pissy about it when it's in a different medium
@@jaminelvers7250 Comic book movies are srs bsns
@@anthonyvillanueva5226 wat
Beware The Gray Ghost is my favorite Batman episode, *it always hits me emotionally.* I'm sure the next time I watch it, I'm going to burst into tears.
I rewatched it after Adam West died and it was already extremely emotional, now that they're both gone I don't stand a chance
@@Marb315 100% 😔
53:49 I actually did get the sense that Namor had like an unlimited army in part because of the look of Talokan. The difference between this and Wakanda is that the Black Panther is treated as like the protector, the ruler and like a respected symbol of the nation which is passed down through the ages, whereas Namor is literally treated as a God King, a seemingly immortal supremely powerful being who rules over them. Wakanda has the feeling more like a conventional monarchy, where there are somewhat defined clans/tribes loosely organized under one sovereign, while Talokan feels more like Egypt or an absolute monarchy, where nearly all power is invested in the single person, so the resources are directed towards that one person, and the rest of the society is built around that.
So happy to hear someone spreading the good word of Jenny Nicholson! I discovered her videos during covid and binged all of them. Her videos about Evermore and Bronycon are some of her best work
She's one of my favorites.
“That better not have been little James”
Wheezing
It's really hard to see the hero of my Childhood pass by, he was the Best
Rest in peace Kevin Conroy
I loved Wakanda Forever!! it was definitely a character driven movie versus a plot driven movie, so you have to care about the characters and be interested in their story, otherwise you would find it really boring, but I cried through probably half of it!!
This is a secret Disney Princess love story between Namor and Shuri.
ruclips.net/user/postUgkx-A4g0FVlhwSLfH6NH1Kzq4Ck5OsvbnNX
He took her to see his underwater kingdom and gave her his mama's bracelet, they technically married.
Yea I thought it was really well done, given the circumstances. A great tribute to Chadwick, really good character development, and the stakes felt high and the achievements shuri made felt earned
I don’t find character driven movies boring. Also all movies need a plot. That’s a stupid statement. This movie is just way too long and messy so that’s what made it boring to me. The Batman for example is a character driven movie, who’s plot actually works, is the same length & most importantly NOT BORING.
@@JJGaming2010 It looks crap 🤷🏻♂️
Every positive thing said I’ve read about it has just been clichéd, vague, recycled platitudes written by people desperate to prove their practiced virtue 🙄
@@CursedWheelieBin This is Marvel, Dude. Stop taking it seriously. NWH had Peter defeat Dr. Strange while his consciousness was out of his body.
Kevin will forever be my batman, I spent hours upon hours with him whether that was watching the cartoons or on the many many play throughs of the Arkham games. Thank you Kevin for all the good times and may you rest in peace.
Didn't really love the Midnight Angels costumes but do kinda appreciate the commitment to the comic accurate suits.
I hope Godzilla & Kong is a buddy cop movie like Turner & Hooch. Not sure if Kong would be the straight man w/ Godzilla making a big mess or the other way around.
I want to see the behind-the-scenes of the screenwriters deciding which country to throw under the bus at the beginning of the movie. Someone is just like, "France is the worst. Make it France." And everyone else just looks at each other and are like, "Yeah, sure."
Of the imperial powers, France is the only one with a wide expanse and claim over influence in Africa.
Brits have Nigeria and Kenya mainly, with other nations having influence in certain countries, but an easy third of the continent is Francophone.
Wakanda set its outreach in service of Black/African people across the Diaspora, with the centers placed in the communities.
It would make sense that a third of Africa being Francophone would draw the interest of the French to one of the sites in their orbit
i’ve been listening to the wakanda forever score by Ludwig Göransson since the night i saw the movie. it’s so fantastic. loved the movie! 🙅🏽♂️
Agreed. The 'Con la Brisa' song is also magical
I just (hilariously) realized that Djimon H. was in both Captain Marvel AND Shazam! 🤣😅😂🍻
“Godzilla passes to Kong from down town. Kong-from the 3 point line…and Boom goes the dynamite!”
There’s your new title
Spoiler:
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Yes, Okoye's suit is visually identical to the version of it in comics, and they are named what they're named in the film. Midnight Angels are a small stealth clandestine group of elite Dora Milaje with a cloaked ship for carrying out international or wetworks missions. The design seems to be later versions of an earlier gold colored power suit smuggled out of Wakanda by a male character that was banished and ended up in NYC, but who snuck tech and vibranium with him on his way out to sell to global powers during a Black Panther / Daredevil issue from the 70's. That may sound familiar because it's loosely the same story plot that was adapted to Killmonger's origin in the film, though in the one shot it's a throw away story and the Wakandan was a disgraced military figure who T'Challa has come out to deal with because he received word that the exile was being abusive to his partner. After being a real dog of a bloke, the exile chooses to later sacrifice himself in a fight for the good of Wakanda. Daredevil is upset that Black Panther allowed it, arguing they should have "saved" him, while Black Panther responds that saving him is precisely what they did.
Random story point: Shuri in the comics becomes Leader of Wakanda as well as the Black Panther, while T'Challa is dead. T'Challa comes back from the Ancestral Plane ala Moon Knight, and has gained powers over the dead from an Egyptian God in addition to his own thing with the Panther spirit. He remains Black Panther while Shuri remains leader. Shuri eventually "dies" but is locked in a state of frozen animation for a long while while T'Challa tries to find a solution. There's been a lot of dipping into main story beats from the comics, reordering them or reframing them in ways that serve MCU. So this plot shift I would say is similar to maybe what occurred with Aunt May.
I met Kevin conroy at a convention about five years ago. He signed my season 2 Batman box set as “Kevin conroy, Batman” he still had great hair.
Near the end of wakanda forever, there is a scene where Shuri is reminiscing about T’Challa. It’s supposed to be sad and what not. But in my theater, there was a man audibly snoring throughout the scene.
I can’t think of a better way to describe wakanda forever. Chadwick Boseman deserved better.
So men can't sit through a serious drama anymore? Once Upon a Time in America in the early 80s had more hours and long silent moments. I fell asleep the first time I watched Godfather Pt I.
@@suzygirl1843 I’d hardly call this a “serious drama” it is literally labeled as an action/adventure movie lmao you’re fkn reaching. But sure if this is a drama then The Batman was an even MORE serious drama and everyone loved that movie. Your point is mute. Apparently it’s wrong for people to not like this movie.
@@suzygirl1843 so women can’t sit through the godfather? So women can’t sit through schindlers list? So women can’t sit through the help? So women can’t sit through taxi driver? Gtfoh
@@imanoldurango8213 Stop taking the bait ffs 😂
@@suzygirl1843 Not sure. I didn’t like the Godfather either but I think a lot of that was that it’s been hyped up endlessly so my expectations couldn’t be met, even if I really tried to pretend it was just some random film.
Anyway a lot of us men find THINGS slightly more interesting than PEOPLE, overall (left-brain dominant). That’s not set in stone but an engaging story with a problem that needs to be solved is more likely to be interesting to men than subtle, melodramatic characterisation.
We’re “problem solvers” (in theory anyway) 😄.
I remember I sat through this great film called “The Place Beyond the Pines”.
My fiancée found it boring but I was on the edge of my seat for the 160 min runtime.
Maybe what we’re discovering is that phase 4 is very feminine and it’s alienating a lot of men who want some excitement, adventure and heroism and not tedious lectures, ADHD TikTok humour, and labels
The music in black panther does not miss. Kendrick Lamar (Paramedic!) on the first soundtrack was amazing. Though it’s completely different, Con la Brisa on wakanda forever was AMAZING. the tour of Talokan when they play it was also amazing. The Talokans (?) playing the hip ball game during it took my breathe away. Such a cool way to respect the Indigenous culture. Makes me wish Disney wasn’t so involved because Marvel does villains the best.
Absolutely loved the Conroy tribute!
So many high points in this episode, my personal favorite was James ripping into Elon Musk *chef's kiss*
Time stamp?
@@emiliolopez1808 me too!
they've been doing that for a while
Also, the Ironheart suit was basically Samus Aran from Metroid and I loved it.
If Mega Man and Samus had a daughter. I just adored it.
I voted for the lads and now I’m gonna do it again
Overlord DVD when Overlord Blu-Ray walks in:
Posted only 14 minutes ago? I'm so early. What's the time difference from Australia to England. Are you broadcasting this from the future!?
MIND BLOWN!
i’m so happy to hear a We Got This Covered Covered segment
Wakanda Forever!
I can't wait for "Black Adam vs Bugs Bunny"...Funny thing about Killmonger is, that he dies and comes back numerous times in the comics.
Bummer about Kevin Conroy. But speaking of which. Have either of you listened to HBO's new old-timey Batman radio show? I think Batman is voiced by the guy who played Gordon in The Batman. I also heard Jason Sudeikik and Chris Parnell.
It's him yeah, Jeffrey Wright
1:21:17 this transition is so chaotic i love it
“Alright, do you know what the time is for? Do you know w-WHat, whatwouldyoudonow?”
@@nasecoo “He’s flailing, OH NO!”
23:50 Not sure if Mason was joking when he mentioned the Banshees of Inisherin in relation to Scotland.
Just came back from seeing Wakanda Forever a fourth time. I might break my record and see it seven times. 😚 It's a good and necessary escape for me. The pacing was perfect for me because they didn't linger on any scene for too long. It's never felt long to me. It flies by. I'd have liked for some scenes to be longer, tbh. It lovingly eulogized a man who meant a lot to millions of people (myself included) and moved the story forward. Namor's characterization was great as well (I really liked him). All the main cast acted their butts off, especially Angela and Letitia.
I'm addicted to this movie, tbh.
That’s wild bro. You spent 12 hours of your life watching a pretty boring movie. 1/6th of your weekend was spent watching this.
@@imanoldurango8213 You haven't seen it if you think it's boring. Then what were 3 hour movie back in the 60's and 70's? Garbage?
@@suzygirl1843 what in the living fuck makes you think I didn’t watch it? Lmaooooo
@@suzygirl1843 it’s not boring because it’s 3 hours. It’s boring because it has a messy plot where nothing happens and character motivations are stupid. The Batman is the same runtime, and arguably way slower than this movie. Yet the Batman had an interesting plot. That’s why it wasn’t boring.
@@suzygirl1843 I don’t know why you’re assuming I don’t like old movies that are long? Lmao where did that come from? The runtime is not what makes it bad but it sure as hell makes it noticeable how boring it is
No probably about it. Kevin Conroy was THE best Batman. Of all time.
He was definitely the most memorable for me cos I grew up watching the animated show on Saturday mornings.
Fast forward to 2008 and I downloaded a free a demo for Arkham Asylum. I instantly recognised that voice of his and was hooked! 🦇
Doug Walker, of all people, somehow managed to sum up how important to the character Conroy was when he said, "When it comes to the sound of Batman, it will always be Conroy and people trying to sound like Conroy."
This is what I love about you guys, the honesty, the movie wasn’t the best and I completely agree with your points, dull city, poor pacing, not a good story, just murky backstories, no context where it is needed, too long and as saddd as it is? It is missing Chadwick and tbh from this I’m certainnnn Ryan shouldn’t make Secret Wars
I can't believe I never knew Conroy was gay until after he died :/ He will be so missed, and I hope that whoever takes up the role next does something original, rather than trying and failing to ape such a unique performance.
I was under the impression the massive army Namor mentioned was all the marine life in the ocean.
the part about not killing namor was very different from other movies. the point is namor is a godlike figure and killing him would start a blood feud between the two nations. shuri isn't againts killing in principle, she just accepts that she has broader responsibillites
Wouldn't of really mattered all that much. The Talocan people were easily winning that battle.
I bloody love the John Farnham finale lads😅
"Do you know what time is for?"
That deepest question ever asked on the pod
Thanks for the Red Dwarf episodes.
I think it was kind of weird when Namor was playing "Marco Polo" when he was in battle against Wakanda's forces. It was also weird when the shark from 'Jaws' showed up and said "N-YUK N-YUK N-YUK!"
Heroes Reborn was my first full comic arc as a kid. It turned me into a life long Franklin Richards fan. He was a little boy creating pocket realities and I was little boy reading him do it. My 2nd run was Superman blue. So I have a weird thing about loving superman blue (but not superman red)
I think I need to watch it again with glasses. I forgot them when i went to the cinema. Everything was already murky and foggy, but me being half blind didn’t help much
Wakanda was epic. I thought the long run time gave all the heavy moments room to breathe.
The two heavy moments that are at the beginning and end of the film? Lmao the movie is way to fkn long
@@imanoldurango8213 Give Shuri a chance. Sick and tired of the same heroes over and over. Marvel redeemed Tony Stark who was C level hero
@@suzygirl1843 fuck shuri. Bad actress and extremely annoying character. Give it to Okoye or Nakia or someone who has any background in actual fighting. Literally any of the Dora milaje would make a better black panther.
@@suzygirl1843 marvel didn’t do shit. The first iron man was made by Universal. The whole MCU only exists because UNIVERSAL made a good iron man.
@@imanoldurango8213 See how people WANT it to be good rather than just taking it for what it is?
This is basically a cult. If it’s for a Marvel logo above it then we need to “give Shuri a chance”🙄 as though we’re donating to a charity by buying a ticket.
The overwhelming majority just watch this stuff and move on with their lives.
may Little James never die
Maso really crushing on Lupita Nyong'o (can't say i blame you m8) but i thought he's more into cartoon foxes
Haven't seen Wakanda Forever yet but I hope in the spirit realm everyone has to share one Penny-Farthing in order to climb the ancestral tree.
He’s also doing a Korean War plane movie with the himbo from “Scream Queens.”
I'm surprised that Mason didn't mention how Namor is essentially yet another Marvel villain with a sympathetic backstory, who at a certain point in the movie decides he's going to "kill all the surface dwellers" because the plot needs the conflict to happen.
I think Black Panther was an impossible ask handled the best it could. The script feels like all the Namor stuff was written in response to the criticisms of T’Challa in Black Panther as a way to give him a fully arc analyzing the role of Wakanda and it doesn’t work so well with a different character who didn’t have those criticisms in the first place. The other half that’s the Shuri’s ascension stuff is okay but there’s a reason Letitia Wright was never cast as a lead in the first place, she’s good but can’t replace a legend.
I thought it’s consistently funny how absurd Julia Louis Dreyfus keeps making her performance. The horniest character in the MCU
Marvel is good at elevating C tier list characters. I didn't know who Tony Stark was before RDJ.
@@suzygirl1843 sure. If iron man 1 in any way belonged to the creative minds that are responsible for the mcu as we know it. But it was made by a completely different studio with different agendas
@@suzygirl1843 sorry. I didn’t mean Shuri was the problem, I meant Letitia Wright lacks the star power that everyone around her has
@@MicoDossun True. But I think that's the point. Marvel doesn't want stars
@@MicoDossun I think the "lack of star power" critique could be said about Thor as well. Or Aquaman. Hence surrounding them with higher caliber actors. Ultimately I think the material they get matters a lot, and I personally found that Wright gave an excellent performance.
Baku was great loved his character growth
Namor commands the oceans, and the sea life is clearly on their side, so he can count both the people and all the fish. So, yeah, he may very well have more soldiers than Wakanda has blades of grass. Also, Shuri didn't take out Namor because it would have led to eternal war, and she finally realized that it wasn't what her mother would have wanted.
The Everett Ross stuff is likely because they didn't want to gamble on a totally black/brown film. It's like the white subplot in the first season of Pose (when ballroom was made as a response to discrimination in the drag scene, so that subplot wasn't really relevant). I'm not complaining, as I do think the U.N./Ross were relevant to the plot. But yeah. 😙
Regarding little T'Challa, maybe they added the son to kind of satisfy those misog--guys who complained about T'Challa not being recast. I feel they also double-dipped by suggesting that M'Baku might try to lead. And yet the haters are STILL angry and hateful. So, they might as well have not bothered.
ETA: I thought Talokan looked like what a native village would look like in the wake of colonization, only underwater. I think making it look like some goofy Disney funhouse would have been disrespectful. The way they realized it was grounded, and I liked the caverns and the main "hall," so to speak. Also, they needed to avoid anything that would make it look like Aquaman.
I agree in regards to the UN being relevant, you can definitely be cynical and say they were just setting up Thunderbolts, but honestly I was kind of impressed it wasn't wrapped up neatly and that Wakanda is just a big target now. It's gloomy, but it is true to life, wars don't just stop because you beat up a flying fishman.
Not all of the recast T'Challa people are hateful or misogynistic.
I personally wanted to see him recasted because I've always loved the character and he's too important to the Marvel mythos to kill off IMO.
I also gave the film a fair shot and loved it, it was a beautiful tribute to Chadwick and T'Challa junior was brilliant. He might even be more like comic book T'Challa, overly paranoid and over powered.
You shouldn't make generalizations about large groups of people.
I would say Ross is relevant as far being the one genuine ally to them outside of Wakanda, even the Avengers are neccessarily close to Wakanda beyond Steve and Bucky but Steve is gone and Bucky doesn't really have any "pull" in the world.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds just because you complain about not recasting doesn’t mean your misogynistic. They just chose the worst character to take the mantle. Idc that it’s a girl now, I care that it’s a girl who has no right or reason to be the black panther. Give it to okoye or nakia or he’ll even Angela basset’s character would’ve made a better black panther. Also fkn bullshit that nobody is gonna challenge shuri for the throne.
Making a lot of excuses for this movie
I hope Godzilla and Kong is a buddy cop movie.
When I read Batman he is the voice in my head. Also Mark Hamel is always Joker in my head. RIP bro
SNAKE EYES IS NEXT, RIGHT?
Godzilla and Kong is just gonna be Hobbs and Shaw - only the Rock is Godzilla and Statham is Kong.
Obviously they also do all the motion capture.
I feel Winston Duke could pull off the Black Panther suit with the cape and it still be serious.
my favorite part is that one guy saying vegemite is a exotic
13:26 🤣🤣 killed me
Did you know that the original title for the "Star Wars references" joke in this episode was actually "Blue Harvest"?
People have been asking why I was not in this, it is because when I went to kill an enemy I electrocuted him to death. They expected me to use “prop effects” doom does no such thing!
The last battle was then standing on top of a big flat boat and was a jumbled mess lol. BP like ran around on the side for two minutes and did nothing cool. Then the Talocans slaughtered basically all the Wakandans. Great job Shuri.
her first battle as Black Panther and they were in the middle of the ocean so I would be wonderfully surprised if the Wakandans actually won that fight
Screw bran stark. Podrick should push him out of a window. An even higher window than his first time plummeting. Jeez that brought some rage back thanks fellas
greatest movie ever..Mr.Sunday " its GRIM & OVERLONG, I Don't want to watch it again"...😂😂
I am upset at the fact that I moved across the country stayed in SLC for the night and def drove within 20 miles of Evermore and had no idea
They could do the Goku and say T'Challa doesn't want to come back. Make it an uplifting message about how Wakanda no longer needs him and then establish Killmonger as being selfish, still has rehabilitation to achieve and grow through.
The "bw don't need a man" message won't take well
@@suzygirl1843 T'Challa would be the one saying Wakanda no longer needs him, using how much the nation has grown after losing his father, and his father before him. A legacy message about how Wakanda will forever move forward and upward in spite of their losses. It makes sense to me
@@ldrayeyler6446 Doesn't matter who says it, that would be the worst way to send him off
@@suzygirl1843 T'Challa has already been sent off. This is about bringing Killmonger back
@@ldrayeyler6446 Kilmonger is a racist Marxist. They would never.
💕💕💕
1:46:58 for all John Farnham Fans out there.
Thank you 🙂 (from a Scandinavian Farnsey fan)
‘Somehow, the infinity stones have returned’
Alex Mack has telekinesis much like force users.
1:32:00 I adore James being to Elon what Hannibal Burress was to Bill Cosby.
He has been saying this for years as have many and finally he is being vindicated in the mainstream.
My theater's sound system was dreadful and too loud which really dampened my experience, making it harder to really connect with the emotional beats. I feel kind of beat over the head with grief in superhero stories after this phase had every single Disney+ series feature it so it's no longer a new concept and as a result this didn't feel special. There are some incredible performances of some really bad lines, Angela Basset and Winston Duke are killing it out there doing a great job. Namor was pretty solid i thought, shocked that he looked as cool and intimidating as he did with the silly little wings. Theres is a lot of way too on the nose dialogue like Mason mentioned. To me, this felt like just a movie- and too much of one. I'll watch it again eventually on disney+ and see how better soundscape does to help the movie.
For what it's worth the comics have been kicking around the threat of the Infinity stones for quite some time after the Infinity War comics.
I think they just wrapped up a miniseries where the power of the stones ended up trapped inside 6 heroes/villains.
I'd genuinely love to see a War of the Realms story at some point. Hell if I had my way we'd get an entire phase set in Battleword where every movie is just set in one of the weird multiverse fragments that make up the world. A weird film noir movie where Black Bolt is a detective, a Mad Max style Ghost Rider flick, a Wild West Hawkeye film.
Just go bonkers with it.
Shuri somehow survived the exact injury that killed Killmonger
Killmonger could have been saved but he wanted to die as he’d been beaten, and tchala honored that request by not getting medical help
I love how you missed the whole point Kilmonger scene, being that he COULD be saved.
@@N313GrayFox I love how you love that. T'Challa says MAYBE we can heal you. Killmonger doesn't just pull the spear out of his own gut and then continue to have a big standoff with BP. Let's not even mention the fact that Namor could have easily just jumped into the ocean real quick after the jet crashed. But no, plot reasons.
@@tylertate3584 T'Challa says "maybe we can still heal you." KM doesn't just stand and keep fighting with a huge hole in his gut (shit Shuri's was through her whole body).
@@bad72690 I can't understand people blindly defending these movies anymore. It's like it's personal to them or something. Let's be honest these Marvel movies lately have been bang average at the very best
Man playing GoWR in 30 fps is rough
" Nine Days" is a super interesting movie! It also stars Zazzle Beats
Yo Ben pls animate James kicking Grogu
There's always the Infinity Crusade. I'd perfectly happy with them redoing the story but the way it's supposed to be with the Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock.
I love their running gag of pretending like The Last Jedi was good 😂
The rage James could summon if Elon was anti-vaccine would be epic.
I will say the pacing was a bit off and Black Panther, specifically, I think the addition of the Riri Williams plot caused the beginning to kind of drag a bit. As much as I loved her and I’m excited to see her show, I think it would’ve been better to wait to introduce her then, than to shoehorn her into this movie. I think that time should’ve gone to exploring this new civilization they introduced.
I don’t think she’s shoehorned into this. She’s the scientist that made that vibranium-detecting machine instead of a random scientist. Plus she’s the reason for that major death too
Yes, but the circumstances of her being included are very contrived, and would’ve been easily replaced with simpler explanations that would have allowed more time for other things. We learn about Namor but not enough about his world. Like I said, I liked her, but objectively the beginning drags, it’s a little too long, and people have a lot of questions about Namor like how does he have so many soldiers, and how do they avoid detection, etc, so it would have made more sense to not include her and spend more time under water.
@@chaos_wtch7437 she’s the definition of a macguffin.
@@taylorgayhart9497 exactly. She only exists to move the plot forward and give the characters a reason to start the conflict. Literally a macguffin.
@@imanoldurango8213 exactly, and I enjoyed her character so it worked for me, but objectively removing her sun plot would have given more room for the exploration of Namor’s world.
I want some of the better newer stories from the comics but I also want them to get to that point first, we still have loadsssss more story to tell and I mean a shit ton load of ideas we could use before we even reach the newer comics, some of the newer ones are just terribleeee tho, it’s either more MCU toned or setting up stories the MCU could use, there’s no individuality with comics anymore it’s just allll for one narrative, whereas anything after Marvel NOW in the comics is just hit and miss, I think they should do some stories again maybe and do it properly but for some titles we have what we get and in the end, what can we do about it 😂
1:09:25 EXACTLYYYY THAT, I just think they’re gonna fuck it up and mess it up soo badly, I love Marvel I love their comics and always have but pfffttt they really do some of these comics dirty, age of ultron, civil war, dark phoenix etc, I want to see it done properly I do so let’s see, and the infinity stones and Thanos come back multiple times in the comics, not just that one comic and one story so I actually want them both to return so that could work
So if Shuri becomes Black Panther in Wakanda Forever, what’s to stop an M’baku or a Killmonger from declaring trial by combat, knocking out a teenage girl, and claiming the title of Black Panther/King of Wakanda?
Noting, and that's what happens, well shes not there to get knocked out
@@ciarandodrill3562 I couldn’t wrap my mind around her being 90lbs and going toe to toe with Namor lol 😂
@@nuffsaidny after taking the herb she should could easily have no problem standing up against him, the plot hole is how the herb downloaded wakanda panther kungfu into her brain cause all she ever did before shoot a gauntlet but after the herb shes doing black flips down the side of a boat swing kicking goons,
@@ciarandodrill3562 right, prior to this film she’s never even thrown a punch. She’s always just in the lab 😂😂😂
I really think Shuri should’ve killed Namor. Not only would it make sense for her character (she’s still mourning her brother and this guy killed her mom a few days ago), it would also tie into Killmonger appearing to her in the spirit world and imo would be a much more interesting development. It would make her decision to give up the throne and that scene on the beach hit even harder since it would be because she couldn’t live up to T’challa’s legacy.
Would be a bit of a downer ending, to have Shuri give into revenge, given T'challa's central lessons as a character were to resist that temptation. Definitely would be interesting but probably too uneasy to leave us feeling as if the future of the franchise was a failure to live up to the inspirational former leader, both in and out of fiction.
I like to have my main characters learn something and grow, thanks
Not only is Namor as strong as Hulk and Kang(whowehaven'tseen) i think, but also as FUNNY AS SPIDER-MAN I THINK. HE'S ONE RAD COOL DUDE.
You sound like you’re describing poochy the dog.
“He’s totally in my faaace” 😎
You have doughnuts in the land of oz, mate? Is this a new thing?
My first youtube recommendation under this video is John Oliver's episode on Gerrymandering
The suits are from the comic. Y’all should read it. 1:06:14
Did he really say that Ewan McGregor can’t do an Indiana Jones film because he has already been in Star Wars? Does he know who Harrison Ford is?
R.I.P. Kevin Conroy
I mean i don't mean to be 'that' guy...but my years have been getting better. I fully understand i am in a VERY small margin lol. But the Conroy news was just awful, RIP an absolute legend.
Quick, get him
Honestly, I always feel bad for saying this, but Covid was the best thing to happen to me financially. My pay has nearly doubled since 2019 and it's because we had to put several employees on break and I had to pick up the slack and ended up getting pay raise after pay raise.
Watching Trump, Musk, Truss, Bolsonaro, and Kanye all fail in the span of a few months has been glorious.
So Elon allowed everyone to have the checkmarks so that he can later have a Blue Harvest
Coincidentally that’s the name of the original working title for Star Wars (1977) 😮
I left the theater during BP.
Both are mid. Second one barely ok if you're inebriated
From the future here, catching up on old episodes, the amount of poorly aged hot takes in this episode had me rolling.
Nice Red Dwarf chat.
That’s what I said, they defo regret killing Killmonger but what we got was just enough