Its an interesting point about animals being cruel to each other. It does make me wonder why an all-loving God would create a world where his creatures suffer so much. Its his design after all. As for morality, I don't think it comes from any one religion. The golden rule existed long before Christianity and the old testament, in faiths like Hinduism and Zoroastrianism. To me this implies that our basic moral intuitions come from our shared humanity, not divine revelation. I'm of the opinion that ethics have evolved along with us. We're social animals and want to live in peace and be treated well. So over time, we've developed this unwritten social contract, we agree to be good to each other so we can all thrive. We don't sacrifice disabled people or the "weak" because we're all too aware that one day we also will be disabled or weak. We want to be treated well when we are weak and disabled, so we do the same for others. It's not perfect, it will never be perfect, but it's a reflection of our deepest moral instincts as a species. As a whole, I think morality comes from within us, not from above. It's a product of reason, empathy, and our desire to live together peacefully. And it's always evolving. That much is clear.
especially when you realise that there suffering was in vain, there is no place in heaven for animals, nor does jesus resurrect them. A human who suffers on earth christians believe they will be saved in heaven, animals just suffer for no reason, why would a loving god create this.
There are hundreds of uncontacted tribes in the world. These people, although maybe capturing glimpses of modern technology, for the most part know nothing of the world we live in. Yet, they live in harmony together, cooperating and developing their own cultures and progressing toward a goal together. Obviously, cannot speak to what their religious beliefs are (or even if they have any), but it can be pretty well assumed that they are definitely not Christian. Humans are very socially complex. "Morality" on the basic principle is as much an instinct on a basic level. Keep in mind, the principles of morality often operate in gray zones and shift with time, culture, and circumstance. There is no evidence that morality requires a god. It makes more sense to say sociological norms are a pressure of human psychology and the previously mentioned factors.
4:12 Moral compases do advance species. This claim is simply false. The ability to coordinate and work in groups as socially connected and compassionate members allows for a greater pool of resources and a division of labor that allows for specialization. If one member is focused on food gathering for another, that frees up the other to do things like build better shelters, find other resources, develop better surival tactics and tools, etc.
Um…my friend…there isn’t morality in the animal kingdom. Watch the Instagram page Nature is Metal😂. Animals have no problems throwing the runt out of the nest, mauling each other, abandoning each other, etc. That’s a verified fact. Ask any biologist just how much love, sacrifice, caring and touchy-feely stuff there is in the animal kingdom. None.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I'm not denying that a lot of crazy shit happens in nature but saying every animal is like that is not true and you must know that. Have you ever had a pet before?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon well yeah if you mistreat your dog and abuse him of course they are going to be upset and rightfully so. Same as if a parent neglects their children the child will likely not be happy about that. Respectfully don't know what ur getting at with that statement
4:29 "where do you get morals from" evaluation of the outcomes and theoretical outcomes or actions in regards to how they impact the lives of myself, others, the environment, and several other factors.
@BrandochDaha9 "how do you determine what is a positive impact and what is not?" Again, by comparing the outcomes for the new action or behavior to the outcomes of previous actions and behaviors. "What are the underlying values there?" There are several. "Do you value growth? Safety, health?" So some extent. "Why so?" In general, those things promote an environment that is beneficial. "Do you value life?" Yup. "Why?" Because it is an effective way to increase entropy. "Do you value existence?" Existence is a prerequisite to having value. Something that does not exist, and thus has no properties, cannot have the property of holding value. None of this answers requires a god, yet alone his specific one.
2:44 "otherwise...all these things are just fine" saying they are just fine is a moral assessment. An amoral assessment would say, "yup, they happen," not call them fine.
@LondonJBaker The whole point of this part of your video was to say that without a god, there is no moral compass, and thus all things would be amoral. They would not be fine as that is a moral assessment. They would just be. Our ability to have morals does not depend upon your god. Morality was around before your god.
1:42 "there's nothing special about us" there are special things about humans. That specialness, to an atheist, would not be a gift from any god, of course, but there is uniqueness about humans. There is uniqueness across diversity of life. Tardigrades are absolutely amazing and very unique critters. Does that mean they are favored by the gods? Bacteria were here before humans and will be here long after humans are gone. Does that indicate anything special to you? It does to me. Humans, too, have unique abilities that have, for good and for ill, changed our lives. Humans are the most domesticated species on the planet, so reliant upon our own technology that a shut down of those advances would devistate the human population. Our inginuity is both our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.
What I do find interesting is that regardless of faith, almost no believer can read their holy book from start to finish and not squint when reading certain parts. Its like humans possess a moral compass that surpass any and all historic morality that didn't withstand the test of time. That compass, is what most of us always have but it almost only works in peace time. Where it comes from? I can't really tell except guess like all big unanswered questions (sleep, consciousness, etc) Regarding nature. Humans are evolved beings like everything on Earth and the color of our history is crimson. The only difference between animals and humans is that animals are always in war time, always fighting, always surviving. We progressed into civilization where we don't use our evolved survival senses anymore. I would not do us the great disservice of attributing humanity with superior morality when all we have is peace and abundance.
That makes sense but I suppose the question of where this compass comes from is more important and relevant than the reason the question arose. Do you see what I mean?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Human capacity for morality arose on the shoulders of our ancestors through evolution. Ask yourself, when you see a commercial for a poor homeless child in a third world country asking for food, we stop and think. See a similar commercial with a whole tribe with the same problem, most of us do not stop and think as much. That's an example of where our morality have unwanted side effects. We should care, we want to care - but we cannot, not as much. Humans in our current form are adapted to life many many thousand years ago in the past. Our intelligence have accelerated a sort of revolution through technology. Around year 1900 there were 1.6 billion people, average life span 30 years. Now we are 8 billion and live more than twice as long. In around 100 years this is a marvel of human intelligence. Our senses, morality, what have you... are still calibrated from ages ago for a time that is long gone.
Humans are social animals that were able to transfer information to the next generation through language. Because of that, we could gradually increase the complexity of our tribes culture back in the day (music, creating tools and developing systems for right and wrong). Morality after all, is just a social construct. Think about it: - If humans are inherently moral, why do we need a law system to punish us for rape and murder? Shouldn't moral people just not rape and murder others? Also, why are there so much cases of childrape within the Christian religion? - Animals have morals, they are just much simpler and guide them towards the highest odds of self preservation. For humans as social animals it's logical for our "morality" to be socially oriented, for being an outcast could mean life or death. We can't survive on our own. - If humans are moral, why does our morality take on so many different shapes throughout history? Why is morality so flexible if it was created to be something objective by god? Why does morality change through history? - Lastly, why do humans have factory farms when we know billions of animals suffer because of us? Why did we era's of systemic slavery? Why is society treating poor people so badly? Why were the native american people murdered? Why is racism and police brutality still a thing? Why have women been treated like dogs/furniture for most part of human history? And lastly, how do you explain that these horrora are/were most prevalent in Christian countries? Conclusion: We are actually much more brutal then animals. We pretend to have morality at our side, but use it as a tool to justify horrors that go far beyond what we see in the animal kingdom. Hope you respond.
Holy shit amazing points, I hope he seriously considers them and responds as well. I feel like he might avoid the good responses and only respond to the lackluster ones. Hopefully not.
How would we even grasp a concept like morality if we were animals? Animals feel no guilt. We do. There are outliers, yes, but an outlier isn’t the entire population, hence the reason they’re an outlier. You see my point?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon animals have no morality because they feel no guilt? Have you ever looked at the face of a dog that knows he did something wrong moments before you find out? The dog definitely feels a sense of guilt in that moment. Besides, the ability to 'feel guilty' isn't at the core of morality. Morality is a system, guilt is a feeling. We can't expect all animals to feel the same things. A chimpansee (who can also feel guilt for instance) will have different feelings then a zebra, but that doesn't make one more moral then the other. You are talking about outliers, but in my examples I listed many subjects that were systematically wrong (slavery, sexism, racism, factory farms, native american genocide etc.) and not "outliers". If those systemic evils are supported by the (religious) masses for centuries, then we are not talking about outliers anymore. It were the outliers that eventually started to fight those systems. You'll have to agree about that right? Looking forward to your reply! P.S. There is a dutch biologist called Frans de Waal who has written the book: 'are we smart enough to know how smart animals are'. It also concerns animals and the topic of "feelings". Would definitely recommend!
I'm 21, raised under Catholic beliefs, practices and, ethics. Went to catholic secondary school (6 years), we have daily mandatory prayers (12 prayers per day) did a lot of preaching/reachout programs to wide areas in our community, never missed church, had lots of friends and relationship. And now, I'm a regular agnostic for 3 years. So to answer your question of " If God does not exist where does your morality comes from?" The answer is simple my friend. "Philosophy" So the bible/religion isn't the only old concept out there where you can base your moral compass. Because, philosophical concepts like Stoicism have been there since before some middle east guy religion became popular. And this philosophy proved helpful in establishing a well versed moral compass for over 2300 years. And I'm not going in depth to that since there's google for ya if you need more. (There's lots of recorded evidence where it proved helpful to morality, not just some plain old encyclopedia wide book filled with figurative language where theist base everything. lol). So yeah im an individual who base my morality on stoicism and not on some noclip divine who can ressurect himself while his dad happily watch him perish on land. In addition to my little biography, if you're wondering why I left Catholicism is because it just doesn't help me anymore especially during the past pandemic. Almost ki**ed myself if I weren't able to find a much better belief system which is realistic, far more effective and, gives you so much emotional intelligence about the hardships of life and how to get through it. See the difference? You can either wait for that holy man to save you by reading idioms in the bible or you can read something that helps you right away with your mental struggle and even improve you more as an individual. So before i went on to my day as an agnostic who have a strong moral compass, have lots of friends, still attend reachout programs (charities), and have well versed social skills. I'm just here to tell you one thing. Catholicism and Christianity are influenced by Stoicism. The only difference is that the latter aims to help people establish their moral compass, while the first two concepts were used as a catalyst for chaos such as corruption, slavery, colonization, massacre, mass suic*ide (Look at jonestown incident), hysteria and etc. Irony of morality indeed. So yeah that's my take on your inquiry and I commend you for bringing up a very interesting content. Cheers🍻
Don’t worry about your grammar my friend! My problem with philosophy as the foundation is that it’s man made. I read tons of philosophy and adhere to a lot of it but in the end it comes from flawed humans who make flawed choices. It seems risky to bet my life on that. You know?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Just like with religion and their scriptures, which obviously also came from flawed humans who make flawed choices, people have often risked their lives for their religion, as history has shown. “All I Know Is That I Know Nothing." At the end of the day, whether you're a believer, a half-believer, or a nonbeliever, it doesn't matter. What truly matters is that our beliefs, whatever they may be, help us go through life’s challenges and keep our boats afloat. As long as we do that, we'll certainly have a good run in life.
3:46 "if morality comes from yourself, your morality is just as wavy and flakey as you are." And a morality that comes from a god is just as arbitrary and subjective as the god. "Well, god is unchanging," again, you *really* don't want to go there regarding how biblical morality has changed over time.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Then you would be wrong. Even among Christians, the idea of "we are now under the new covenant, not the old" is born specifically because the moral requirements are different now.
@LondonJBaker Is the appropriate penalty for homosexuality the death penalty? Assuming that moral dictates have not changed, as you claim, the answer is yes. Fortunately, most societies are not as barbaric as the book you are trying to defend dictates.
@LondonJBaker Because my parents raised me right and I've been around a good crowd of friends. Most of Europe are atheists. You think they're murdering each other over there?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon You're not replying to all the valid answers in your comments, dude. There's 20 good answers in your comments already. Reply or don't waste our time with call to action videos like this.
Right, human brains have evolved in such a drastically different way than all other living species, to compare us to anything else will lead down a dead end because of how different our life’s are. To say why aren’t we like these other animals and to point to God as an immediate answer doesn’t make any sense given how different we are to these other species he’s comparing us to. We were those animals at one point. I have done zero research on the topic but I believe as we became more and more socialized and brains expanded in consciousness we started evolving these traits that serve to work more effectively as a whole to in order to progress in so many other fronts that wouldn’t be possible without generalized civility. To his point about how it doesn’t make sense if the weak slow us down… that can be true but I don’t think to such an extent that it’s more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn’t be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism. To the creator of the video: at a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to “slow us down”
Yes... What separates humans from the alleged primitive creatures... Are the tools specifically toward the use of communication. From this, we can pass information generation to generation, without playing the telephone game. Also from this, we conceptualize ideas in greater depth. And as far as humans being said to not cull the old or weak... The United States response to COVID totally wasn't about culling the old or weak at all 👀...
I've put a fair amount of thought into the differences between Christian and Buddhist morals. Buddhism is a non-theist religion which has a fair amount of overlap between the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha. The teachings of Right View in the Eight Fold Path I believe gets me out of the trappings of absolute truth claims of Christianity. I am not convinced anyone can speak absolute truth to get to finely tuned moral system. I wrote an article on this if you are interested.
As a genuine answer to your question.... The world and everything in it is very complicated, there are no absolute rules that anything has to be a certain way. If you want to see that, you need to stop thinking so much and quite the mind. Then using your eyes and ears view your surroundings without adding words to what you see and hear. This world is absolutely amazing. If you understand "GOD" you will learn that you are a piece of "it", and it does not lay claim or authority to anything . Love is a very powerful emotion don't forget that. And even though I am not a "Christian" I appreciate your respect in the video for anyone that doesn't believe in your version of morality. Love you guys.
But certain animals can sort of show mercy in the wild but the truth is its a eat or be eaten world out there. We the people aren’t necessarily hungry. In the united states people literally die from too much success its crazy. Dogs are a good example right they protect their own and remember things and even have friends. In the wild its been known to have certain animals co exist and stuff like birds and rhinos or fish and whales.
I mean that makes sense but still doesn’t explain why we feel revolted seeing children being killed in bombings or why we know things like rape are wrong
I address that in the video. It doesn’t benefit us to keep old people around. It doesn’t benefit us to care for the disabled, but we do and we do for good reason.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon But this is my answer to the question "Where do we get morality from?". I'd argue that it helped us through times, and the proof would be... that we have this sense of morality nowadays. Does it make sense? It's not an irrefutable proof, just another possibility than getting it from God. It could (amongst other things) have put us ahead of the other animals in term of survival -> social evolution of the brain.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon To add on to Greg’s response to your point about taking care of the weak/elderly and how it doesn’t technically benefit the species from my perspective. That can be true but I don't think to such an extent that it's more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn't be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism. At a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to "slow us down". So the social moral innate contract in us to my guess arose from simple pressure i.e. in order to develop smarter and more useful technologies and systems to survive better, there was a pressure for developing innate moral care and right and wrong sense in order for that “better and more advanced survival” to take place.
@LivingSimplyWithLondon Citing examples of immorality does not indicate that morality within the larger group does not exist. That would be like claiming that because some humans commit murder that it morality is entirely absent from humanity. Your statement is an example of the hasty generalization fallacy
1:40 "that we don't have souls" how did you determine that other species do not have souls? What test can you provide that empirically verifies the presense or absense of a soul?
Spend a week in the Utah deserts or Amazon rainforest or a night in Yellowstone or a night in the Australian outback. You’ll see the soullessness of animals.
@@lhvinny I am an avid outdoorsman. I have sat for hours and seen animals tear each other apart for no apparent reason. When humans tear each other apart for no reason we react strongly, we execute justice. When it happens in the animal world nature doesn’t even blink
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I don't need to go outdoors to watch people tear each other and other animals apart for no apparent reason. "Nature doesn't even blink." You are imposing upon nature something it doesn't have that animals, not just humans, do. None of this indicates a soul still or how one is demonstrated. The circularity is becoming very clear.
@@lhvinny Morals are unnatural. That’s a fact. There can be ZERO denial of that. It is not natural to care about someone more than yourself, to give something to someone for no reason and expect nothing back, etc. Yet it seems humans have morals. You can tell me we don’t and we’re all just guessing but I’ll just ask you-how do we KNOW rape is wrong? Racism? Sexism? Murder? Genocide? Outside of having permanent and unchanging morals how can you tell me that is absolutely wrong?
2:18 "following the laws of the animal kingdom that's what we would do" where are these laws? When were they dispensed abroad? Wolves defend and care for their injured companions. Again, your claims are surface level at best.
I find it quite ironic that you brought up slavery in a video where you claim that people get their morals from a god. You argue that people get their morals from a god, yet, as you mentioned, slavery was widely accepted and practiced in the 1800s-a period when society was significantly more religious than it is today. This suggests that the moral compass provided by god is not only bad but also subject to change over time. If divine morality were truly absolute and unchanging, we wouldn't see such stark differences in moral standards between the past and the present. This raises important questions about the validity and reliability of moral guidance that is claimed to come from a divine source.
Your response is also kind of ironic because if you look at history you’ll see that the Bible is one of the singular greatest reasons we had an anti-slavery movement to begin with😂
I hope you can acknowledge that the Bible has historically been used to support both proponents and opponents of slavery. Is it wise to base your morality on a book that is open to such varied interpretations? Besides, you didn't address my initial question. Were the majority of Christians back then "bad Christians" for supporting slavery? Or does this imply that the morals they received through God were flawed? Or does it suggest that people's morals are not entirely determined by the deity they believe in?
@@DUDOS_ What that implies are that people are flawed. If I took To Kill A Mockingbird and read it and decided that that was a good book to use as justification to support rape then you’d call me crazy (and for good reason). That’s the same as people using the Bible to support slavery and other such issues. We can’t blame God for the way people behave
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon How is To Kill A Mockingbird at all comparable to the Bible? Is the Bible not a sacred religious text describing something that "really" happened and people that "really" existed?
I'll answer in earnest... From, "If you do not believe in God, where do you get your morality from?"... Intellectual thought, leads to morality, just as religious belief in a God does. Here's how... Given intellectual thought, from the perspective of being part of a civilization... One comes to recognize the entire species, the entire civilization, as a single organism. It is in this consideration, that the sum total of the organism, delivers such as "game theory" as Dr Nash of the movie Beautiful Mind. Yes, you (generalized for anyone read, "you") need to look out for you, but you also need to look out for the others. This way of coming about morals, is in the recognition, that one hand washes the other. Consider driving... Yes, you need to get to some point B, but so does everyone else on the road. If people paid attention to roadways or lanes being clogged, most certainly losing a few seconds in allowing another vehicle to go, this eventually helps everyone. I've seen too many times a left turning vehicle sitting, whereas any one person letting them go would open that lane up from behind them... I'm always watching for the flow of traffic from and in every direction... Yes, I actually drive this way myself... Watching the flows of traffic, and making certain to help a direction that gets clogged... Morality is the same thing... It's too bad leaders dont have morality... Because eventually... That one person... With that one idea... Could stop that one extinction level event... But, the lack of morals of this world, will eventually get what it deserves... And those leaders' bloodlines... Will perish, along with all those they snub their noses at... That, gives me peace...
I get my morality from my personal experiences and how my emotions have been affected by those personal experiences. I listen to my gut (which you may argue as being God) as to whether a possible action done by myself or someone else is fair, unfair, fair with subjective reasons why it may be unfair, unfair with subjective reasons why it may be fair, and things in the middle that in my opinion cannot be considered objectively fair or unfair. But I use some combination of my gut, emotions, experiences, and logic to come to my conclusions. I basically live my whole life wanting "life to be fair" even though I know it isn't. But I do my best not to contribute to the problem and hopefully at times to make things better for the world. I also have my own moral code which I follow. This is a bit different (but not contradicting) from my fairness vendetta. My moral code is a personal preference more than something I would hold others accountable for. Morality to me is someone who tries their best, even if their "best" may not always be a lot on a given day. Morality shouldn't come from the hope of reward or the fear of punishment, which is the number one disagreement I have when it comes to religion and morality from religion.
3:19 Disagree here. My morals are not something I bend on, no matter what kind of hardship may come may way. It's not the longest list of morals but the ones I do have are for both peaceful times and times of strife. One moral is a catchall to be the best person I can be while still prioritizing the needs of myself, which gives me flexibility to be a "worse" person during bad times, but that's only if it doesn't contradict the other morals I have.
3:35 "a person who gets angry when they are hungry, that's where morality comes from?" Why not? Does the basis of morality need to never get upset? Does the basis of morality have to avoid anger when they do not get what they need or want? If that's the case, I have some pretty bad news for you about Yahweh.
@@lhvinny I think your view of God might be skewed in comparison to what I believe it to be. I mean that not as a jab or comeback but as an observation. I feel as if, from your wording, you’re picturing some large man with a billowing white beard sitting on a throne barking orders.
I think human brains have evolved in such a drastically different way than all other living species, to compare us to anything else will lead down a dead end because of how different our life’s are. To say why aren’t we like these other animals and to point to God as an immediate answer doesn’t make any sense given how different we are to these other species you’re comparing us to. We were those animals at one point. I have done zero research on the topic but I believe as we became more and more socialized and brains expanded in consciousness we started evolving these traits that serve to work more effectively as a whole in order to progress in so many other fronts that wouldn’t be possible without generalized civility. To your point about how it doesn’t make sense if the weak slow us down… that can be true but I don’t think to such an extent that it’s more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn’t be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism. At a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to “slow us down” Let me know your thoughts on this, as someone who does believe in God but also believes in a natural world with naturally arising traits and organisms where it’s possible a God could’ve provided the ingredients for it all but I don’t believe in attributing things we don’t know about to God without acknowledging it could have natural processes behind it because it can. Not to say God didn’t lead us down this path but to say it couldn’t have naturally happened I completely disagree with because to me with how much variability there is in nature and unknowns it seems ignorant to pick and choose if certain things come from God or not based on how much we know about it. Feel free to let me know what you think cheers
0:52 "there's no morality in the animal kingdom" false. Since humans are a type of animal, there is morality, even according to you, within the animal kingdom. We can, of course, pretend that humans are not aniamls, even though they are, for the sake of this statement, and your claim is still false. The concepts of equity, equality, kindness, compassion, and empathy have been observed in several species: turtles, bees, non-human primates, canines, marine mammals, etc. Your claim is poorly researched and without merit. "But what about all the bad things they do?" is a reply elsewhere you gave. Does the fact that humans do immoral things mean humans have no morality either? Since you are trying to argue that humans, in contrast to other animals, uniquely have morality, the answer is clearly no. So the fact that you can find examples of immoral behavior within animals is no more valid as a defense that morality does not exist within the animal kingdom than my pointing out all the immoral things humans do is valid to say humans collectively have no morality. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Studies on morality throughout the animal kingdom have been done. Your claim contradicts empircally verified reality.
@LondonJBaker "Animals don't treat each other with equality." Yes, they do, and when they notice unequal treatment, they get fussy. This is observed empirical fact. "Unless they are domesticated and trained they are immoral ans selfish." Again, demonstrably false.
4:05 I strongly recommend that you listen to "Treatise on Morality" by Theoretical Bullshit. While it is far from perfect, it addresses most of this rather eligantly given the 10-ish minute time limit of early era youtube.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon That sounds interesting, i assume you mean that there seems to be evils acting on the world but can you elaborate cus i could totally be miss interpreting
My morality comes from my empirical knowledge, from my observation of the world. If I act nicely towards you, you would do the same, right? You wouldn’t keep me as a slave, correct? Why not? It's morally correct according to the Christian moral compass, right? Then why yoh whould not? Find the answer, and that will be my answer as well. I hold something beyond holy books of morality, and you do too, Baker.
Yeah theres a lot of morality in the animal kingdom. More than the old testament for sure. Morality is inherent, its a survival instinct. When we disobey god he gets angry, thats scarier and flakier thsn me being angry when im hungry. Im sorry i gave this a shot but this is absolutely not well thought out. You use the word logic often but this isnt logic its just semantics
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Its an interesting point about animals being cruel to each other. It does make me wonder why an all-loving God would create a world where his creatures suffer so much. Its his design after all.
As for morality, I don't think it comes from any one religion. The golden rule existed long before Christianity and the old testament, in faiths like Hinduism and Zoroastrianism. To me this implies that our basic moral intuitions come from our shared humanity, not divine revelation.
I'm of the opinion that ethics have evolved along with us. We're social animals and want to live in peace and be treated well. So over time, we've developed this unwritten social contract, we agree to be good to each other so we can all thrive. We don't sacrifice disabled people or the "weak" because we're all too aware that one day we also will be disabled or weak. We want to be treated well when we are weak and disabled, so we do the same for others. It's not perfect, it will never be perfect, but it's a reflection of our deepest moral instincts as a species. As a whole, I think morality comes from within us, not from above. It's a product of reason, empathy, and our desire to live together peacefully. And it's always evolving. That much is clear.
especially when you realise that there suffering was in vain, there is no place in heaven for animals, nor does jesus resurrect them. A human who suffers on earth christians believe they will be saved in heaven, animals just suffer for no reason, why would a loving god create this.
My question for you then is if ethics have evolved with us, why don’t animals have the same guilt and complex moral feelings humans do?
0:44 "if you do not believe in god, how do you believe in morality?" Because morality and moral behavior is demonstrable. The gods are not.
Demonstrable but not reliable
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon A car can be unreliable. I do not say a car likely does not exist just because it is unreliable.
There are hundreds of uncontacted tribes in the world. These people, although maybe capturing glimpses of modern technology, for the most part know nothing of the world we live in. Yet, they live in harmony together, cooperating and developing their own cultures and progressing toward a goal together. Obviously, cannot speak to what their religious beliefs are (or even if they have any), but it can be pretty well assumed that they are definitely not Christian.
Humans are very socially complex. "Morality" on the basic principle is as much an instinct on a basic level. Keep in mind, the principles of morality often operate in gray zones and shift with time, culture, and circumstance. There is no evidence that morality requires a god. It makes more sense to say sociological norms are a pressure of human psychology and the previously mentioned factors.
W response
4:12 Moral compases do advance species. This claim is simply false. The ability to coordinate and work in groups as socially connected and compassionate members allows for a greater pool of resources and a division of labor that allows for specialization. If one member is focused on food gathering for another, that frees up the other to do things like build better shelters, find other resources, develop better surival tactics and tools, etc.
0:55 "you look at animals, there's no mercy"
Go look up "leapord saves baby deer." You're welcome.
There are always anomalies. Not every human is as evil as Hitler and not every animal is equally savage
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I agree, which is why saying they are without morals or mercy is simply false.
"Theres no morality in the animal kingdom" Bro ur just wrong straight up stop spreading misinformation
Um…my friend…there isn’t morality in the animal kingdom. Watch the Instagram page Nature is Metal😂. Animals have no problems throwing the runt out of the nest, mauling each other, abandoning each other, etc. That’s a verified fact. Ask any biologist just how much love, sacrifice, caring and touchy-feely stuff there is in the animal kingdom. None.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I'm not denying that a lot of crazy shit happens in nature but saying every animal is like that is not true and you must know that. Have you ever had a pet before?
Most pets are a few meals away from turning on us, you know? If you start to beat your dog, don’t feed him, see how loving he is.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon well yeah if you mistreat your dog and abuse him of course they are going to be upset and rightfully so. Same as if a parent neglects their children the child will likely not be happy about that. Respectfully don't know what ur getting at with that statement
Animals aren’t moral. That’s my main point. They have no morals. My question for you is where do you get your’s?
4:29 "where do you get morals from" evaluation of the outcomes and theoretical outcomes or actions in regards to how they impact the lives of myself, others, the environment, and several other factors.
@BrandochDaha9 "how do you determine what is a positive impact and what is not?" Again, by comparing the outcomes for the new action or behavior to the outcomes of previous actions and behaviors.
"What are the underlying values there?" There are several.
"Do you value growth? Safety, health?" So some extent.
"Why so?" In general, those things promote an environment that is beneficial.
"Do you value life?" Yup.
"Why?" Because it is an effective way to increase entropy.
"Do you value existence?" Existence is a prerequisite to having value. Something that does not exist, and thus has no properties, cannot have the property of holding value.
None of this answers requires a god, yet alone his specific one.
2:44 "otherwise...all these things are just fine" saying they are just fine is a moral assessment. An amoral assessment would say, "yup, they happen," not call them fine.
But can you truly be amoral?
@LondonJBaker The whole point of this part of your video was to say that without a god, there is no moral compass, and thus all things would be amoral.
They would not be fine as that is a moral assessment. They would just be.
Our ability to have morals does not depend upon your god. Morality was around before your god.
@@lhvinny Here’s my question-if I debated you forever and gave you all the logic, all the historical facts, etc. would that change anything?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Definitely.
1:42 "there's nothing special about us" there are special things about humans. That specialness, to an atheist, would not be a gift from any god, of course, but there is uniqueness about humans. There is uniqueness across diversity of life. Tardigrades are absolutely amazing and very unique critters. Does that mean they are favored by the gods? Bacteria were here before humans and will be here long after humans are gone. Does that indicate anything special to you? It does to me.
Humans, too, have unique abilities that have, for good and for ill, changed our lives. Humans are the most domesticated species on the planet, so reliant upon our own technology that a shut down of those advances would devistate the human population. Our inginuity is both our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.
What I do find interesting is that regardless of faith, almost no believer can read their holy book from start to finish and not squint when reading certain parts. Its like humans possess a moral compass that surpass any and all historic morality that didn't withstand the test of time. That compass, is what most of us always have but it almost only works in peace time. Where it comes from? I can't really tell except guess like all big unanswered questions (sleep, consciousness, etc)
Regarding nature. Humans are evolved beings like everything on Earth and the color of our history is crimson. The only difference between animals and humans is that animals are always in war time, always fighting, always surviving. We progressed into civilization where we don't use our evolved survival senses anymore. I would not do us the great disservice of attributing humanity with superior morality when all we have is peace and abundance.
That makes sense but I suppose the question of where this compass comes from is more important and relevant than the reason the question arose. Do you see what I mean?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Human capacity for morality arose on the shoulders of our ancestors through evolution. Ask yourself, when you see a commercial for a poor homeless child in a third world country asking for food, we stop and think. See a similar commercial with a whole tribe with the same problem, most of us do not stop and think as much.
That's an example of where our morality have unwanted side effects. We should care, we want to care - but we cannot, not as much. Humans in our current form are adapted to life many many thousand years ago in the past. Our intelligence have accelerated a sort of revolution through technology. Around year 1900 there were 1.6 billion people, average life span 30 years. Now we are 8 billion and live more than twice as long. In around 100 years this is a marvel of human intelligence. Our senses, morality, what have you... are still calibrated from ages ago for a time that is long gone.
Humans are social animals that were able to transfer information to the next generation through language. Because of that, we could gradually increase the complexity of our tribes culture back in the day (music, creating tools and developing systems for right and wrong). Morality after all, is just a social construct.
Think about it:
- If humans are inherently moral, why do we need a law system to punish us for rape and murder? Shouldn't moral people just not rape and murder others? Also, why are there so much cases of childrape within the Christian religion?
- Animals have morals, they are just much simpler and guide them towards the highest odds of self preservation. For humans as social animals it's logical for our "morality" to be socially oriented, for being an outcast could mean life or death. We can't survive on our own.
- If humans are moral, why does our morality take on so many different shapes throughout history? Why is morality so flexible if it was created to be something objective by god? Why does morality change through history?
- Lastly, why do humans have factory farms when we know billions of animals suffer because of us? Why did we era's of systemic slavery? Why is society treating poor people so badly? Why were the native american people murdered? Why is racism and police brutality still a thing? Why have women been treated like dogs/furniture for most part of human history? And lastly, how do you explain that these horrora are/were most prevalent in Christian countries?
Conclusion: We are actually much more brutal then animals. We pretend to have morality at our side, but use it as a tool to justify horrors that go far beyond what we see in the animal kingdom.
Hope you respond.
Holy shit amazing points, I hope he seriously considers them and responds as well.
I feel like he might avoid the good responses and only respond to the lackluster ones. Hopefully not.
@@TheThirdNight Thank you! Let's hope so :) I would even be up for a friendly online discussion if he feels up to it!
How would we even grasp a concept like morality if we were animals? Animals feel no guilt. We do. There are outliers, yes, but an outlier isn’t the entire population, hence the reason they’re an outlier. You see my point?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon animals have no morality because they feel no guilt?
Have you ever looked at the face of a dog that knows he did something wrong moments before you find out? The dog definitely feels a sense of guilt in that moment. Besides, the ability to 'feel guilty' isn't at the core of morality. Morality is a system, guilt is a feeling. We can't expect all animals to feel the same things. A chimpansee (who can also feel guilt for instance) will have different feelings then a zebra, but that doesn't make one more moral then the other.
You are talking about outliers, but in my examples I listed many subjects that were systematically wrong (slavery, sexism, racism, factory farms, native american genocide etc.) and not "outliers". If those systemic evils are supported by the (religious) masses for centuries, then we are not talking about outliers anymore. It were the outliers that eventually started to fight those systems. You'll have to agree about that right?
Looking forward to your reply!
P.S. There is a dutch biologist called Frans de Waal who has written the book: 'are we smart enough to know how smart animals are'. It also concerns animals and the topic of "feelings". Would definitely recommend!
I'm 21, raised under Catholic beliefs, practices and, ethics. Went to catholic secondary school
(6 years), we have daily mandatory prayers (12 prayers per day) did a lot of preaching/reachout programs to wide areas in our community, never missed church, had lots of friends and relationship. And now, I'm a regular agnostic for 3 years.
So to answer your question of " If God does not exist where does your morality comes from?"
The answer is simple my friend. "Philosophy"
So the bible/religion isn't the only old concept out there where you can base your moral compass. Because, philosophical concepts like Stoicism have been there since before some middle east guy religion became popular. And this philosophy proved helpful in establishing a well versed moral compass for over 2300 years. And I'm not going in depth to that since there's google for ya if you need more. (There's lots of recorded evidence where it proved helpful to morality, not just some plain old encyclopedia wide book filled with figurative language where theist base everything. lol).
So yeah im an individual who base my morality on stoicism and not on some noclip divine who can ressurect himself while his dad happily watch him perish on land.
In addition to my little biography, if you're wondering why I left Catholicism is because it just doesn't help me anymore especially during the past pandemic. Almost ki**ed myself if I weren't able to find a much better belief system which is realistic, far more effective and, gives you so much emotional intelligence about the hardships of life and how to get through it.
See the difference? You can either wait for that holy man to save you by reading idioms in the bible or you can read something that helps you right away with your mental struggle and even improve you more as an individual.
So before i went on to my day as an agnostic who have a strong moral compass, have lots of friends, still attend reachout programs (charities), and have well versed social skills.
I'm just here to tell you one thing.
Catholicism and Christianity are influenced by Stoicism. The only difference is that the latter aims to help people establish their moral compass, while the first two concepts were used as a catalyst for chaos such as corruption, slavery, colonization, massacre, mass suic*ide (Look at jonestown incident), hysteria and etc. Irony of morality indeed.
So yeah that's my take on your inquiry and I commend you for bringing up a very interesting content. Cheers🍻
My bad for my punctuation and grammar lapses since i don't do essays for a living🥱
Don’t worry about your grammar my friend! My problem with philosophy as the foundation is that it’s man made. I read tons of philosophy and adhere to a lot of it but in the end it comes from flawed humans who make flawed choices. It seems risky to bet my life on that. You know?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Just like with religion and their scriptures, which obviously also came from flawed humans who make flawed choices, people have often risked their lives for their religion, as history has shown.
“All I Know Is That I Know Nothing." At the end of the day, whether you're a believer, a half-believer, or a nonbeliever, it doesn't matter. What truly matters is that our beliefs, whatever they may be, help us go through life’s challenges and keep our boats afloat. As long as we do that, we'll certainly have a good run in life.
3:46 "if morality comes from yourself, your morality is just as wavy and flakey as you are." And a morality that comes from a god is just as arbitrary and subjective as the god. "Well, god is unchanging," again, you *really* don't want to go there regarding how biblical morality has changed over time.
I would argue biblical morality hasn’t changed
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon Then you would be wrong. Even among Christians, the idea of "we are now under the new covenant, not the old" is born specifically because the moral requirements are different now.
@@lhvinny Customs are different, I’d agree with that
@LondonJBaker Is the appropriate penalty for homosexuality the death penalty? Assuming that moral dictates have not changed, as you claim, the answer is yes.
Fortunately, most societies are not as barbaric as the book you are trying to defend dictates.
@@lhvinny Death penalty is not the consequence for homosexuality
So the ONLY reason you're good is because you need an imaginary God to tell you to?
Well why are you good (supposing you are I don’t know you so I’m just taking a guess😂)?
@LondonJBaker Because my parents raised me right and I've been around a good crowd of friends. Most of Europe are atheists. You think they're murdering each other over there?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon You're not replying to all the valid answers in your comments, dude. There's 20 good answers in your comments already. Reply or don't waste our time with call to action videos like this.
@@thoryan3057 I’ve been really sick these last few days and have been resting and waiting until I am recovered to reply. Thanks.
2:33 "where are we getting this from [without a god]" A moral sense need nothing more than a brain that can be empathetic.
Right, human brains have evolved in such a drastically different way than all other living species, to compare us to anything else will lead down a dead end because of how different our life’s are.
To say why aren’t we like these other animals and to point to God as an immediate answer doesn’t make any sense given how different we are to these other species he’s comparing us to. We were those animals at one point. I have done zero research on the topic but I believe as we became more and more socialized and brains expanded in consciousness we started evolving these traits that serve to work more effectively as a whole to in order to progress in so many other fronts that wouldn’t be possible without generalized civility. To his point about how it doesn’t make sense if the weak slow us down… that can be true but I don’t think to such an extent that it’s more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn’t be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism.
To the creator of the video: at a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to “slow us down”
Yes... What separates humans from the alleged primitive creatures... Are the tools specifically toward the use of communication. From this, we can pass information generation to generation, without playing the telephone game. Also from this, we conceptualize ideas in greater depth.
And as far as humans being said to not cull the old or weak... The United States response to COVID totally wasn't about culling the old or weak at all 👀...
I've put a fair amount of thought into the differences between Christian and Buddhist morals. Buddhism is a non-theist religion which has a fair amount of overlap between the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha. The teachings of Right View in the Eight Fold Path I believe gets me out of the trappings of absolute truth claims of Christianity. I am not convinced anyone can speak absolute truth to get to finely tuned moral system. I wrote an article on this if you are interested.
Yes! Please send the article to my email (contactlondonbaker@gmail.com)
As a genuine answer to your question.... The world and everything in it is very complicated, there are no absolute rules that anything has to be a certain way. If you want to see that, you need to stop thinking so much and quite the mind. Then using your eyes and ears view your surroundings without adding words to what you see and hear. This world is absolutely amazing. If you understand "GOD" you will learn that you are a piece of "it", and it does not lay claim or authority to anything . Love is a very powerful emotion don't forget that. And even though I am not a "Christian" I appreciate your respect in the video for anyone that doesn't believe in your version of morality. Love you guys.
Thank you for your comment! Can’t say I totally agree but you raise great points. Best wishes for you!❤️🙏🏼
But certain animals can sort of show mercy in the wild but the truth is its a eat or be eaten world out there. We the people aren’t necessarily hungry. In the united states people literally die from too much success its crazy. Dogs are a good example right they protect their own and remember things and even have friends. In the wild its been known to have certain animals co exist and stuff like birds and rhinos or fish and whales.
I mean that makes sense but still doesn’t explain why we feel revolted seeing children being killed in bombings or why we know things like rape are wrong
Tribal cooperation and empathy helped us throughout time. That's all.
I address that in the video. It doesn’t benefit us to keep old people around. It doesn’t benefit us to care for the disabled, but we do and we do for good reason.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon But this is my answer to the question "Where do we get morality from?". I'd argue that it helped us through times, and the proof would be... that we have this sense of morality nowadays. Does it make sense? It's not an irrefutable proof, just another possibility than getting it from God.
It could (amongst other things) have put us ahead of the other animals in term of survival -> social evolution of the brain.
@@Greg2fram Potentially, I see your point.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon To add on to Greg’s response to your point about taking care of the weak/elderly and how it doesn’t technically benefit the species from my perspective. That can be true but I don't think to such an extent that it's more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn't be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism.
At a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to "slow us down". So the social moral innate contract in us to my guess arose from simple pressure i.e. in order to develop smarter and more useful technologies and systems to survive better, there was a pressure for developing innate moral care and right and wrong sense in order for that “better and more advanced survival” to take place.
1:46 "if that logic tracks" it doesn't, though. Your claims about a lack of morality in the animal kingdom are false.
Mother birds throw their babies out of nests. Herds abandon the week and disabled. If that’s moral then…
@LivingSimplyWithLondon Citing examples of immorality does not indicate that morality within the larger group does not exist.
That would be like claiming that because some humans commit murder that it morality is entirely absent from humanity.
Your statement is an example of the hasty generalization fallacy
1:40 "that we don't have souls" how did you determine that other species do not have souls? What test can you provide that empirically verifies the presense or absense of a soul?
Spend a week in the Utah deserts or Amazon rainforest or a night in Yellowstone or a night in the Australian outback. You’ll see the soullessness of animals.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon How does it demonstrate the soullessness of animals?
@@lhvinny I am an avid outdoorsman. I have sat for hours and seen animals tear each other apart for no apparent reason. When humans tear each other apart for no reason we react strongly, we execute justice. When it happens in the animal world nature doesn’t even blink
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I don't need to go outdoors to watch people tear each other and other animals apart for no apparent reason.
"Nature doesn't even blink." You are imposing upon nature something it doesn't have that animals, not just humans, do.
None of this indicates a soul still or how one is demonstrated. The circularity is becoming very clear.
@@lhvinny Morals are unnatural. That’s a fact. There can be ZERO denial of that. It is not natural to care about someone more than yourself, to give something to someone for no reason and expect nothing back, etc. Yet it seems humans have morals. You can tell me we don’t and we’re all just guessing but I’ll just ask you-how do we KNOW rape is wrong? Racism? Sexism? Murder? Genocide? Outside of having permanent and unchanging morals how can you tell me that is absolutely wrong?
2:18 "following the laws of the animal kingdom that's what we would do" where are these laws? When were they dispensed abroad?
Wolves defend and care for their injured companions. Again, your claims are surface level at best.
I find it quite ironic that you brought up slavery in a video where you claim that people get their morals from a god. You argue that people get their morals from a god, yet, as you mentioned, slavery was widely accepted and practiced in the 1800s-a period when society was significantly more religious than it is today. This suggests that the moral compass provided by god is not only bad but also subject to change over time. If divine morality were truly absolute and unchanging, we wouldn't see such stark differences in moral standards between the past and the present. This raises important questions about the validity and reliability of moral guidance that is claimed to come from a divine source.
Your response is also kind of ironic because if you look at history you’ll see that the Bible is one of the singular greatest reasons we had an anti-slavery movement to begin with😂
I hope you can acknowledge that the Bible has historically been used to support both proponents and opponents of slavery. Is it wise to base your morality on a book that is open to such varied interpretations? Besides, you didn't address my initial question. Were the majority of Christians back then "bad Christians" for supporting slavery? Or does this imply that the morals they received through God were flawed? Or does it suggest that people's morals are not entirely determined by the deity they believe in?
@@DUDOS_ What that implies are that people are flawed. If I took To Kill A Mockingbird and read it and decided that that was a good book to use as justification to support rape then you’d call me crazy (and for good reason). That’s the same as people using the Bible to support slavery and other such issues. We can’t blame God for the way people behave
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon How is To Kill A Mockingbird at all comparable to the Bible? Is the Bible not a sacred religious text describing something that "really" happened and people that "really" existed?
@@overfoxed I’m saying that you saying the Bible can be used to support slavery is the same as me saying TKAM can be used to support rape
I'll answer in earnest... From, "If you do not believe in God, where do you get your morality from?"...
Intellectual thought, leads to morality, just as religious belief in a God does. Here's how... Given intellectual thought, from the perspective of being part of a civilization... One comes to recognize the entire species, the entire civilization, as a single organism. It is in this consideration, that the sum total of the organism, delivers such as "game theory" as Dr Nash of the movie Beautiful Mind. Yes, you (generalized for anyone read, "you") need to look out for you, but you also need to look out for the others. This way of coming about morals, is in the recognition, that one hand washes the other. Consider driving... Yes, you need to get to some point B, but so does everyone else on the road. If people paid attention to roadways or lanes being clogged, most certainly losing a few seconds in allowing another vehicle to go, this eventually helps everyone. I've seen too many times a left turning vehicle sitting, whereas any one person letting them go would open that lane up from behind them... I'm always watching for the flow of traffic from and in every direction... Yes, I actually drive this way myself... Watching the flows of traffic, and making certain to help a direction that gets clogged... Morality is the same thing... It's too bad leaders dont have morality... Because eventually... That one person... With that one idea... Could stop that one extinction level event... But, the lack of morals of this world, will eventually get what it deserves... And those leaders' bloodlines... Will perish, along with all those they snub their noses at... That, gives me peace...
3:15 "was the same government that said slavery was okay in the 1800s." You *really* don't want to go there as a Christian.
The Bible was the very document that paved the way for any abolitionist movement at all. That’s undeniable
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon My warning was not about the abolitionist movement. I still strongly recommend you not go there.
I get my morality from my personal experiences and how my emotions have been affected by those personal experiences. I listen to my gut (which you may argue as being God) as to whether a possible action done by myself or someone else is fair, unfair, fair with subjective reasons why it may be unfair, unfair with subjective reasons why it may be fair, and things in the middle that in my opinion cannot be considered objectively fair or unfair. But I use some combination of my gut, emotions, experiences, and logic to come to my conclusions.
I basically live my whole life wanting "life to be fair" even though I know it isn't. But I do my best not to contribute to the problem and hopefully at times to make things better for the world.
I also have my own moral code which I follow. This is a bit different (but not contradicting) from my fairness vendetta. My moral code is a personal preference more than something I would hold others accountable for.
Morality to me is someone who tries their best, even if their "best" may not always be a lot on a given day. Morality shouldn't come from the hope of reward or the fear of punishment, which is the number one disagreement I have when it comes to religion and morality from religion.
3:19 Disagree here. My morals are not something I bend on, no matter what kind of hardship may come may way. It's not the longest list of morals but the ones I do have are for both peaceful times and times of strife.
One moral is a catchall to be the best person I can be while still prioritizing the needs of myself, which gives me flexibility to be a "worse" person during bad times, but that's only if it doesn't contradict the other morals I have.
I’m sure you don’t bend on your own morals but my question is how do you know the morals that came from you to begin with are true and good?
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon I couldn't say for sure the morals that came from me are true and good. But I do feel strongly about them.
3:35 "a person who gets angry when they are hungry, that's where morality comes from?" Why not? Does the basis of morality need to never get upset? Does the basis of morality have to avoid anger when they do not get what they need or want? If that's the case, I have some pretty bad news for you about Yahweh.
Morals and moral judgments made in anger are emotional reactions, not firm foundations
@LondonJBaker Then Yahweh is not performing moral judgements from firm foundations.
@@lhvinny How so?
@LondonJBaker Do you really need me to list all the times that Yahweh makes judgements and imposes punishments because Yahweh is angry with Israel?
@@lhvinny I think your view of God might be skewed in comparison to what I believe it to be. I mean that not as a jab or comeback but as an observation. I feel as if, from your wording, you’re picturing some large man with a billowing white beard sitting on a throne barking orders.
I think human brains have evolved in such a drastically different way than all other living species, to compare us to anything else will lead down a dead end because of how different our life’s are.
To say why aren’t we like these other animals and to point to God as an immediate answer doesn’t make any sense given how different we are to these other species you’re comparing us to. We were those animals at one point. I have done zero research on the topic but I believe as we became more and more socialized and brains expanded in consciousness we started evolving these traits that serve to work more effectively as a whole in order to progress in so many other fronts that wouldn’t be possible without generalized civility. To your point about how it doesn’t make sense if the weak slow us down… that can be true but I don’t think to such an extent that it’s more detrimental than to live like chimpanzees or lions I.e. we wouldn’t be where we are technologically without the ability to function as a giant organism.
At a certain point it was more effective for our species to develop moral traits and become more civilized despite there being weak to “slow us down”
Let me know your thoughts on this, as someone who does believe in God but also believes in a natural world with naturally arising traits and organisms where it’s possible a God could’ve provided the ingredients for it all but I don’t believe in attributing things we don’t know about to God without acknowledging it could have natural processes behind it because it can. Not to say God didn’t lead us down this path but to say it couldn’t have naturally happened I completely disagree with because to me with how much variability there is in nature and unknowns it seems ignorant to pick and choose if certain things come from God or not based on how much we know about it.
Feel free to let me know what you think cheers
this video is so good… please keep putting more stuff like this out there
I really appreciate that. Thank you!🙏🏼❤️
0:52 "there's no morality in the animal kingdom" false. Since humans are a type of animal, there is morality, even according to you, within the animal kingdom.
We can, of course, pretend that humans are not aniamls, even though they are, for the sake of this statement, and your claim is still false.
The concepts of equity, equality, kindness, compassion, and empathy have been observed in several species: turtles, bees, non-human primates, canines, marine mammals, etc. Your claim is poorly researched and without merit.
"But what about all the bad things they do?" is a reply elsewhere you gave.
Does the fact that humans do immoral things mean humans have no morality either? Since you are trying to argue that humans, in contrast to other animals, uniquely have morality, the answer is clearly no. So the fact that you can find examples of immoral behavior within animals is no more valid as a defense that morality does not exist within the animal kingdom than my pointing out all the immoral things humans do is valid to say humans collectively have no morality. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Studies on morality throughout the animal kingdom have been done. Your claim contradicts empircally verified reality.
Animals don’t treat each other with equality. Unless they are domesticated and trained (by humans) they are immoral and selfish
@LondonJBaker "Animals don't treat each other with equality." Yes, they do, and when they notice unequal treatment, they get fussy. This is observed empirical fact.
"Unless they are domesticated and trained they are immoral ans selfish." Again, demonstrably false.
4:05 I strongly recommend that you listen to "Treatise on Morality" by Theoretical Bullshit. While it is far from perfect, it addresses most of this rather eligantly given the 10-ish minute time limit of early era youtube.
I think we are different than animals, and i think we should go against nature in many ways. Im an absurdist personally
That makes sense. Sometimes life seems too dark to be absurd, though.
@@LivingSimplyWithLondon That sounds interesting, i assume you mean that there seems to be evils acting on the world but can you elaborate cus i could totally be miss interpreting
@@marian7514 Evil sometimes seems too targeted, too malicious to be an absurd accident
My morality comes from my empirical knowledge, from my observation of the world. If I act nicely towards you, you would do the same, right? You wouldn’t keep me as a slave, correct? Why not? It's morally correct according to the Christian moral compass, right? Then why yoh whould not?
Find the answer, and that will be my answer as well. I hold something beyond holy books of morality, and you do too, Baker.
But what if two people view slavery as okay and agree it doesn’t hurt them and then go an enslave a village? Is that right?
Yahuah is our DNA 144,000 divided by 2 is our exact DNA number, look at your veins, Y we're in his image, look at tree branches Y
72,000 is our DNA number? What does that even mean?
Also, Yahuah, in its actual language, does not begin with a Y.
@@lhvinny Each strain is 72,000 and there's 2 so it equals 144,000
@landonmccloy5924 Each strain? What strain? And equals 72,000 whats? Grams? Pineapples? Bases?
Your statement is lacking.
@@lhvinny Did you get the COVID vaccine?
@@landonmccloy5924 Wow. Can't stay on topic.
Are you going to clarify what you mean by 72,000 somethings per strain in DNA or not?
Yeah theres a lot of morality in the animal kingdom. More than the old testament for sure. Morality is inherent, its a survival instinct. When we disobey god he gets angry, thats scarier and flakier thsn me being angry when im hungry. Im sorry i gave this a shot but this is absolutely not well thought out. You use the word logic often but this isnt logic its just semantics