A McIntosh Killer? The Bold & Fearless Advance Paris A12 Classic 🔥
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Advance Paris A12 Classic product page: www.advancepar...
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I have an A12 in my secondary system and your review is spot on. Tube rolling is possible and best achieved by taking the front panel off. I imported mine from a German dealer and saved about $1,100, so for ~$2,500 it's very hard to beat the value. I have compared it to the Accuphase E-4000 in my reference system and although the build quality isn't close the sound signature with Class A bias on gives it a run for the money. I use a HiFi Rose RS250A as the streamer/digital source and the RS250A's SABRE ES9028 Pro DAC is better but to your comment I could live with the Burr Brown DAC in the A12.
Can you share the name of the importer , I can't wait to connect my loaded Geshelli J2 DAC
Why would a well thought out design include all those inputs? You can't imagine a need for them nor can anyone else with a practical mind. It's ridiculous. What other seen or unseen engineering is ridiculous in this unit?
@@BoRerunn-- there's an EBay seller (MERCATOS) out of Germany that sells the A12, it may be the same one although not sure. Research accordingly but they have a good seller rating and ship to the US. Hope this helps 👍
Very good extensive review quiet and slow spoken (not too fast!) Thank you .
I live in France. We tend not to find Advance in independent HiFi stores but,with so many sales going to online businesses it’s difficult evaluate this amplifier. Most independents in my region of France sell HEED, Naim, REGA, Atoll , Cambridge,Musical Fidelity,Roksan, , Rotel and Mcintosh. They mostly promote separate components but even this is changing with Naim and Cambridge. I want to be so positive about this amplifier because of the use of tubes, VU meters but my HiFi journey has been so much fun by buying and selling different components over the years. I buy mostly new and have hardly lost any money selling a DAC, phono preamp, preamp or power amp individually. In fact some of the people I have met in the process have become friends! I have read some of the online reviews in French about Advance and they have been extremely successful. Good luck to Advance Paris .
Great review. Nice and grounded, one of few that did not go for the "McIntosh Killer" hype but evaluated it for the fine product that it is.
I own an Advance Paris A10 classic and have had a few McIntosh and Luxman amps over the years. I agree with your assessment completely .
Great review, thanks. These people saying something’s gonna kill McIntosh are gonna have to wait 50-60 years and see if they’re still in business and offering support and manufacturing parts for stuff that came out today. Even if that happens, they’ll only have come close to matching McIntosh.
If I was in the market for an integrated this would be it. 👍
I bought one just 3 weeks ago after one week of intensive testing. I just didn`t want to give it back anymore🙂. It looks amazing, and it sounds really great. After 50 hours of burn-in, I was actually shocked! Tube preamp and solid state amp is the best of both worlds for me! I use Eversolo DMP-A8 as a streamer, Q Acoustics Concept 500 loudspeakers and some very nice interconnects / speaker cables. It`s an amazing piece of gear. It doesn`t have to be a McIntosch Killer. It is just good as it is. The value for money is incredible. I changed many gear during the last 30 years, some of it was +10 KUSD or above. This is why I was completely blown away with the performance of the Classic A12. Just didn`t expect the sound to be at this level.
*Instead Q Acoustics ???* *Martin Logan Motion 60XT* 👈👍👌
I’m running the same Q acoustics speakers with a Naim XS3 amp. What others amplifiers have you tried with them?
@@navoo9009 Or polk R700
@@sapkan7879 Cambridge Audio Edge NQ / Edge W.. I tried Advance Paris and Eversolo DMP-A8 just for fun. Cambridge is for sale now 🙂. You happy with the Naim?
Given your experience with so many equipment, wish one day you would do a review on this Advance Paris amp.... or just even add more of your comments..
I recently picked one up to give it a try. I ran it continuously for 6 days before sitting down for some serious listening. I found the midrange and high range to be very impressive. The mid clarity is superb, with an excellent presence, and the highs were crisp but never sibilant or fatiguing. In other words, it's very neutral. However, I found the bass to be lacking, even with the loudness function active and the bass set to 10. My speakers are Klipsch Cornwall 3's, and they will produce the deep bass if it's there. With a sensitivity of 102 db, and 8 ohms impedance, it's my opinion that they just didn't present the A12 with enough of a challenge. I think this integrated is probably more at home with speakers that present a challenge to it, as many reviewers have felt it had quite good bass response. My current integrated, and the one I went back to is the Vincent SV-237MK. Both amps are very similar spec wise, including having pure class A output at lower levels and tube preamps. The difference is that the bass presentation of the Vincent is noticeably deeper. I absolutely will not run a sub woofer in my system, so I have to have an amp capable of deep bass. Don't take this as a bad rap on the A12, because it's not meant to be. I loved everything about the A12 except the bass, and would have kept it except for that. This is an FYI. If you run sensitive, easy to drive speakers and you crave deep bass, this may not be the integrated for you.
Have the same experience with AdvanceParis amps in comparison to VINCENT hybrid amps.
The VINCENT are clearer, deeper in bass, and compatible with high and low efficiency speakers.
a 2.000,- VINCENT amp is near a 7.000,- unit of i.e. german AUDIONET.
👍
@@randycochones5965 I'm still surprised that Vincent hasn't gotten wider recognition in the audiophile world. They make some really top shelf gear at very reasonable prices.
Wow. I have an ancient set of Cornwalls and I am amazed at how much bass they produce and how good it sounds. I have run them with the following - 1. Fisher 500B. OK....they need to have BASS emphasized quite a bit using the Fisher. The knobs usually 2-3 O'clock posn. Sometimes even more. 2 and 3. Marantz 2240 and Sansui G5700 ....Using either of these SS amps the bass is almost never beyond 11-0100 posn and even then, the bass is shaking the room. Loudness? No way.
@@lbowsk That's exactly why I like them. They are the heart of my system, and any new piece of gear I try has to work with them, or out the door it goes.
@ I have several sets of Klipsch, speakers. Heresies, 2 sets of Fortes, CF3s, KG5.5s, KLF-30s, and the CWs just kick major ass. The only thing that comes close is the KLF30s. All of them are nice, but the CWs just have IT.
Funny because the Advance Paris A10 first series ( the 2020 model) is featuring an AKM AK4490 DAC… later replaced on the actual series with an ESS 9018
since the A10 is the little brother to the A12… strange they used an old Burr Brown inside. I am vey happy with my 2020 A10
Very nice job, Dave. I don’t think it’s quite a McIntosh killer. I have a few vintage McIntosh pieces. However, this looks like a nice piece. The sheer volume of inputs makes this an extraordinarily versatile component. I don’t think I’d want to use the dac for more than TV. I love that it has tone and high bias. Pretty amazing.
Great review and information. I have the A12 and getting familiar with the features. Your video is very helpful in this respect.
CAM covers A.P. as well, they seem pretty sweet too me. It looks very well made and thought out.
I believe the move to single box solutions and even active speaker systems will continue to grow. Products like this definitely fit that criteria and will make many customers happy. But the high end solutions are not going to be dethroned by “Killers” like this. A blue plastic face plate will not give manufacturers like Macintosh many sleepless nights.
Mines at home waiting to be unboxed! Came in late yesterday!!
Who wouldn’t love this integrated amp.
Front panel appeals? Check!
Just wish it was way less everything in the back end. I’ll bet it does very well in what it provides.
I’m digging that CJ. I have a poor man’s CJ solid state amp ( SA 250) and it’s great. I’m tube integrated and Heresy IV with sub now. Done. I still enjoy reviews:)
I like the big transformers and large caps in this amp.
Owned the Playstream A7 a few years ago, sold it after a month. Was underwhelmed by finishing, sound...everything felt cheap 🙈 But great review 😊
You have a lot of impressive gear. I'm eagerly awaiting your garage sale. LOL If I was a gajillionaire I would buy one of these for each of the systems in my house. I have six right now. LOL
It was on loan from distributor. Thanks for watching.
A Macintosh killer? Hardly. Yet another option. The price certainly is no benefit....a new product to me also...but I understand that they have been around awhile in Europe. I've watched a few reviews by other reviews and the reviews have all been positive. Appreciate your review, just question the Macintosh comparison!! Thanks again for your review.
McIntosh cheap parts at high end price? No thanks. Joke brand selling on made in America and looks.
Great review! Thanks for sharing.
A made in China amplifier
CAM RUclips channel has been pimping Advance Paris for a while and this model as well
Nice looking amplifier
I use the Advance Paris Stream Tubes which is nice streamer with good software
Made in China, not Chinese. Did you know that Hegel amps are made there as well?
Hegel never appealed to me and now even less so
@@middleearthltd yet they are recognised as extremely well sounding everywhere I've heard(Hegel). American made stopped meaning something in the late 70s for the rest of the world.
@@MODAC Made by Opera Audio/Consonance
@@MODAC Same with Monitor Audio, Wharfedale.
Would I rather have a McIntosh tube/solid state hybrid a la the MA12000? Yes. However I don't have 15 grand laying around. So I settled for the A12 and while it doesn't "kill" the McIntosh, you'd think you were listening to an integrated amp twice the A12's price. It's a great piece of gear.
Hi,
Thank for this review, very clear and calm.
I own an A12 since a while now (more than a year) and I just love it. It is paired with Focal Aria 926 + a Dali E-12F sub. Acoustic corrections in the room where made (best investment EVER). Music source is only streaming with USB connection from my computer and using Qobuz or reading flac files.
You're not the first one to notice that the internal DAC is maybe not so good compared with recent products.
It seems like adding a DAC could be a source of improvement.
So my question is : in a range of 1500€ maximum, is there any DAC that would significantly improve my experience? What product would you recommand?
Thank you very much.
Cheers from France!
Too bad you aren't in Florida. I would be willing to have you test my McIntosh MA-252 and run a comparison review with your other gear. It is the most reasonable ($4500.00) amp they make. The fit & finish is superb. I listen to some form of music 12+ hours a day and have never experienced any listening fatigue. True, it has no meters so i took that money and purchased their XR50 speakers together. I am very happy with the tube/SS setup and think it is the way to go for someone who plays mostly vinyl and CDs. But, there is some terrific gear out there. Very informative video BTW 😊
I am in Florida. Thx
@@MODAC the offer is there. I'm in Ft. Meyers.
Looks great! But how does a US citizen purchase this product?
The US distributor’s dealer website playbackdistribution.com/pages/store-locator-1
First, thanks for the review. I have the Advance Paris A10 running a pair of Magnepan LRS+ with a Rel Tzero MkIII sub. The music source is a Cambridge Audio Azure 851N which I play FLAC files from an SSD. I also have a Rotel CD-11 Tribute CD player. Prior to the Advance Paris A10 I was running an Outlaw Audio RR2160 MkII. I purchased the A10 because the Outlaw seemed to be under powered with LRS+ which are a bit inefficient; however the bass response was good anyway. The Outlaw and the A10 are about the same wattage wise but I have to say that I was a bit disappointed with the A10's inability to push those LRS+; it seemed even more under powered than the Outlaw. However I think the A10 is a better sounding amp. The mids and highs are a bit pronounced and I like that but the bass seems to lack presence and muscle. I'm not a "bass head"; in other words I really don't care for room shaking bass. Particularly with the kind of music I predominantly listen to mostly jazz piano trios, straight jazz with acoustic instruments, upright bass, etc. With the Outlaw I really don't need the subwoofer; it's just there to add a slight more presence to the sound-stage, but with the A10 I have to use the subwoofer otherwise not much bass. Additionally with the A10, mellow jazz guitar on some tracks sound a little recessed and distorted more than I've heard on other amplifiers. The A10 is a lovely amp overall but I returned it. I've considered the A12 but I've read comments about the same thing, bass seems to be lacking a bit. The other option I considered was the Rotel 1572 MkII which is about the same price. It's really difficult trying to make a decision when we don't have retail stores to check the sound out before purchases.
Interesting, thank you
Good video
There are many cases when 'the less is more' principle doesn't apply. This amplifier may indeed represent such a case. It looks much more beautiful than any McIntosh component. In that regard, at least, it wins. By the way, I saw in flashes the albums you chose to test the device, and I have to say that your music taste is impeccable (The Police, Kate Bush, Talking Heads, the list goes on)
nice piece a gear
so i am digging this video and then its pop the hood timeAsome!
I heard these are allot like Emotiva inside, possibly built in the same factory as the BassX series has anyone else heard that?
I'm looking to buy the A10. If a tube goes out are they changeable?
Of course.
Prob a nice piece of gear. But I'd still rather have the Mack.
It's a decent product. I don't think it's a Mac killer. Ide still buy a Rotel Pre power combo for around this money. The meters are nice buy not up to Mac standards. I've seen em in the same room. The Knob feel is the only let down for me. This amp is very well featured. That's what people want. I believe this company are reading the market well would like to see more amps wirh midrange controls like Yamaha and Marantz used to include. Class AB is the go. Over time the only question I ask is about reliability and parts availability. I know people in the tech world that are very big on these for good reason. I am an Accuphase fan boy really. But this gear is very expensive now. The quality justifies those prices. Like the red boards and big transformers. Decent capacitors too.
Hi, i have a Sansui 881 like you. My question is if the A12 integrated is a night and day difference from the Sansui soundwise. Thank you.
Didn’t think to do a head to head…wouldn’t actually be very helpful. Thanks!
Serious question, do you think the A12 would drive the Maggie LRS plus to a satisfying standard and without issue? Many thanks in advance.
I drove my 1.6X with plenty of gusto. Thanks
@@MODAC Many thanks.
I couldn't tell you about the A12 with LRS+ but it's little brother the A10 seemed a bit under powered running the LRS+; bass was lacking a bit and I don't listen to loud bass. Jazz piano trios, etc. is mostly what I listen to and the bass was very light. I was sort of forced to use a subwoofer (REL Tzero Mkiii) to make up for the loss, I didn't have to do that with other amplifiers. I sent it back. Apparently I've seen reports of others sharing the same experience with the A12 as well.
@@mr.b4444 thanks for the heads up.
Those tubes don't seem to be easy to get to to roll...is this true? Thank you
Good question.
Not really worth the effort.
hmmmm, toroid-AL vs toroid-IAL?
Tube rolling? Easy or difficult?
Didn’t try it. Looks like it will require a bit of effort.
Anyone know where Advance Paris products can be purchased? I see they have a distributor in Toronto and one called Playback Distribution in the USA ( although I was unable to find any info on their site regarding retail options….)
I put a link for a store locator in the video description. Thx
Thanks Modac however I tried that earlier a few times but distributor’s site dealer locator doesn’t seem to function, coming up blank. Good overview of the amp BTW.
@@Toisornottoam There are European sellers of it on Ebay
Yes, I saw there were European sellers on EBay, thanks. The potential of a need for warranty work dissuades me from that. The manufacturer states on their website that warranty claims are to be handled by the distributor who will work in concert with the manufacturer so it would likely be a real rat’s nest with an E Bay purchase. I have no reason to believe Advance Paris products may have quality control issues or are prone to breakdowns but on the other hand we don’t know that they don’t or aren’t. I’ll get in touch directly with the distributor here in the US and figure out where they are headed and when, and report back here.
@@Toisornottoam I understand that. Good reasoning.
I wouldn't say even it is an ADCOM killer. Sorry I am not impressed!
And you're basing that opinion on what experience?
Adcom is lofi.
Does it sound similar to any Vintage Receivers?
The best thing about any integrated amp is you don't have use a set of interconnects between preamp and power amp. You lose a lot of sound quality through cables; the worse your cables, the more SQ you lose. I have experienced cables that have easily 50% more sound quality than other cables. I don't think getting great amplification has to be that expensive. I sometimes put in use into my system a Bravo Ocean tube headphone amp that has rca outputs to a power amp. I connect it usually to the Main In terminals of a totl 1980s Luxman integrated amp, and the sound quality I'm sure would compete with some current integrated amps costing thousands of dollars. Nearly impossible to fault the sound. I paid somewhat over $200 for the used Luxman integrated, less than $90 for the Bravo headphone amp which acts as a preamp, and under $20 I'm sure for NOS 1954 Sylvania 12AU7 tube. Around $350 total for something whose sound quality competes head on with a lot of new integrated amps costing ten times more. I do use, out of this world good cables, and the ones I use with this combo costs far more than the two components combined.
Some 1980s integrated amps are absolutely wonderful sounding and under the radar. A lot of people don't even see what their seperatable power amp section sounds like. On some, it is a whole lot better than the preamp section of the integrated, used as an integrated, instead of as just a power amp. Of course hooking it up to the power amp section only, it bypasses all the controls on the integrated. But a volume control on what is feeding it, is enough.
DAC Direct w JLA active crossover
Interconnects minimal expense
Compared to speaker/sub/amp
The distortion noise that accompanied the ‘subscribe now’ prompt is incredibly annoying, especially via an outboard home audio system. You might want to rethink it.
Just keeping you on your toes. Thx
It's not really a big deal is it?
I think not,get what you pay for.
Yes, Separates are easier to integrate
Actually this is additional evidence that the only thing that sells a McIntosh is its look. McIntosh has not offered competitive sound since the 60's. I have been a high end dealer for 45 years and it is the best selling brand like Bose. Ever since Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson, David Berning, Rapaport,, and Bedini came on the scene in the 70's, McIntosh has fallen further behind in performance while their prices keep going up.
Cheap looking
a real McIntosh killer could be BOSE.
Not soundwise, but under ownership of BOSE, they may ruin McIntosh.
Good but design is not good. That silver color..and design is not my cup of tea.
If it's made in China, I don't even consider it.
Well then don't buy any Apple, Samsung, Borrenson (cabinets made in China), KEF, Onkyo, Marrantz, Rotel, NAD, Denafrips, Prima Luna, HP, Dell, Adidas, Proctor and Gamble, GM (certain models), Volkswagon (many models), Ford (some models), Monitor, Tannoy, most Klipsch and many Bowers & Wilkins products. You can't avoid China.
@@Darrylizer1😂😂😂
Should be noted that this is a French-German collaboration with the actual units being made in China. No thank you........
Quelle blague !
Why are these people pushing an obsessing over Paris advanced when it's pretty much like any other amplifier out there. Just find a really good amplifier at Rock bottom price you can get one that's excelente 7 to 11 channel for under $1,500 bucks..
Tone winner is delete app to buy through a Canadian retailer who will sell you one of 11 channels at 2 to 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms for less than 1500 bucks to Royal has the sandwich.. the last minute you spend the more of a giant killer it is. 1 grand example is gathering together let's say 6 200 watts per channel 8 ohm 2 channel power amplifiers from crown the LXI 800 is excellente and you can get six of them for less than $1,800 delivered which means that you have one amplifier for every pair of speakers in your surround sound system and you can switch and delete any pair of channels you like whenever you like without any trouble whatsoever. If you use an amplifier with all channels in one single box and one of those channels go out or a pair of those channels go out or a number of those channels go out you are without an amplifier completely until it's repaired .. the suggestion that you have six 200 watt 2-channel power amplifiers at 8 ohm separately for each pair of speakers.. what's the most honest and secure way of pounding concrete and breaking glass with your surround sound system. Considerate I did and it works really really really really really really well
The Advance Paris is NOT a multichannel amp. Strictly two-channel…and I would make a video about about any home theater gear. Not sure what you are going on about…
@MODAC this is already known. Point being that you have many options 42 channel to multi-channel powering of your preamps processors for sound or adding external amplifiers to your present AVR or receiver.. electronics are becoming extraordinarily too expensive.. and should not be treated as jewelry none of it has the appreciable value over time. It's kind of like buying a new car.. where it actually loses value overtime.. and in this economy where it is. A d-class amplifier or an AB class amplifier on a class amplifier are any combination of these make absolutely no difference in the quality of sound you are listening to. The quality of the sound you're listening to comes directly from the quality of the speakers in the processor that you are using to manipulate that sound..
The statements are not meant to warn you of what you are buying for too much money it is just telling you that you have many choices.. just don't spend more than you have to at present until the economy gets better.