You're the coolest doctor ever for embracing modern pop culture instead of existing within your own doctor world. I wish there were more doctors like you!
My mom is a hardcore Karen, and she feels vindicated because when my stepdad was alive, it was part of their good cop/bad cop response to customer service. Essentially, 'Either you can deal with me, _the nice guy,_ or I can call my wife in again c:' Without him here though, it really highlights the old, 'Don't trust anybody who mistreats the waitress. How long until you're in the waitress's shoes?' There's no 'good cop' in this household anymore, just my mom, losing her shit on anybody and everybody who tells her no. She taught my sister and I to behave this way, and it's taken us so long to unlearn that and build an understanding of respectful, consensual communication. The worst part is, neither of us are physically, mentally, or financially stable enough to live on our own when cost of living is so inflated. I don't see a way out. EDIT: A year later, I got on disability for my seizures and my mom started to realize how hurt I really am. It’s taken her a few months, but she’s reflected on her behavior and has gotten better about not lashing out at me. The seizures still make it hard to hold down a job and support myself, but getting support from my family isn’t as hellish as it was a year ago.
i hope you find your way out ^^ don't forget, the fuel that's at the heart of a karen's anger is victimhood. If we want to be different, we have to remember we are not victims of circumstance but actors in the face of them. And no story worth telling is one where the hero faces no adversity right? I know nothing about you save what you wrote here but i'd be willing to believe you and your sister got this
It’s good that you recognize these behaviors. I personally thought the karenisms were passed down as a learned behavior. It’s good to know the Karen’s exist on their own. Just keep doing you👌🏼
I once saw a video where a psychologist described a story about two people ran a local shop. Once was technically the boss, but they were good friends. When a Karen came in and made an unreasonable request, the employee would call the boss and give them a secret signal. On cue, the boss would “fire” the employee and the employee would start begging for the job, saying they needed the money. The Karens would start saying, “It’s not a big deal,” but the boss would explain there would be consequences for these actions. The Karens would then leave and never return. The psychologist explained this worked because Karens want to behave badly with no consequences. Consequences would make them self-reflect on their actions, but that would mean taking responsibility, and no Karen wants that.
That only works on the Karens who are having a bad day. that doesn't work on the Karens who will go out of their way over the next month to email everyone they can to get you fired and follow up to make sure you stayed fired.
Yes it's called people who get angry over any woman speaking up... Because women should be quiet submissive bitches and as such we should bully them... That's someone who uses the word Karen for ya!
I agree. I think my mom raised me to be one and I think I sadly kinda was one until I was about 24-ish. I saw older women say/do stuff, how that was working for them, how my coworkers emotionally processed the experiences of them, I dated guy that was one to find I was frequently ashamed of being associated with him and I chose to change my choices, coping, reaction.
Ive delt with Karens by remaining calm first. Not going to their level, telling them I will help them as soon as they are calm. This worked for me. The lady apologized and we talked some about her day, she was under a huge amount of stress taking care of her husband with cancer. She wasnt a Karen, she was a stressed out human, who just needed help, and was shitty at asking for it.
One time I thought I had a Karen, and then I paid a little more attention to her, and she was just poor and drunk and confused and hungry. She needed her card to work because she had no food, and didn't understand why her card wouldn't go through. I was initially really annoyed with her, but I ended up paying for her groceries myself. And I didn't have to do that. She *was* harassing us. But after the anger faded there was this kind of desperation in her face and her voice and I realized this poor lady was just having a bad night, maybe a bad week, maybe longer. The next time she saw me in the store she tried to pay me back (I told her to keep it.) I've had to develop boundaries to work customer service, but I also try to always remind myself that I don't know what someone is going through and I always have the choice to be kind. I'll require that people respect me and my coworkers but that doesn't mean I need to be jaded and unsympathetic.
Also, we have customers who will come in and throw a fit one day, and be perfectly calm and amiable the next, and I keep reminding myself that there are all sorts of things that can cause emotional dysregulation like that, and maybe I should give them a little slack.
I've had a true Karen before. Took care of an old lady, and I had little to do with admitting her to our facility, but did most of what I could to address her issues. Unfortunately, some small things did not work out with some of her requests that we attempted to accommodate. The result? She vented to her "friend" who was like a daughter to her I guess. That friend (our Karen) was a woman in her mid 30s maybe, early 40s. Karen bitched out my nurses on the phone saying we called that lady fat, the reality of the situation was our bed pans were too small for her to use, she was in for therapy and was supposed to get up to toilet anyway. We could get extra pain medication in, because the ordering doctor did not prescribe a shorter frequency, so that old lady was telling Karen about it the next morning. I was being bitched at for it. And I was assured by Karen that her cousin works at the news channel and they WILL be hearing about it and I would be famous for being uncompassionate. That old lady actually said she was sorry for calling Karen, she knew how she would act when she showed up, and did not want us to get in trouble or hear about it from her. Even went as far as telling us Karen's actual parents used her like a weapon when things didn't go a certain way, because they knew what she would do. My only response to Karen was a firmly grounded in reality response. "Okay, you picked up your loved one. You got her belongings and her paperwork. Is there anything else she needs from us? I can't stand here in the doorway all day, and you aren't permitted to enter right now due to covid regulations." That pissed her off more. But she realized she wasn't going to force her way into the door and so she left. One could argue that she was just upset and protecting her friend, but if it's known to her friend and family that she will act out aggressively, erratically, and make grandiose threats, I'd say that checks most of the boxes for Karen/narcissistic behavior. Ps. I never got famous.
@@sorrelbee113 This is so nice of you! I think it is important to try to be empathetic towards people we don't know exactly bc we don't know them personally and sometimes learning where they are coming from gives us a better perspective of what's going on.
The fact that the name for this phenomenon is Karen is really funny to me because my Aunt Karen couldn't be further from the stereotype she's a quiet and friendly lady who doesn't even like insulting people, even those who deserve it.
My mum's called Karin, and she can be a little entitled or angry sometimes. I mentioned the stereotype once, and she got absolutely furious. Apparently she thinks it's a slur? (quote)
My cousin is named Karen is very sweet and shy. I feel bad imagining people make jokes about her being a Karen meeting her. That said one of the most unpleasant girls in school was named Kerri and one of the most toxic bosses I've ever had (def had a cluster B personality disorder and caused me to get CPTSD) was named Kristin...
Not all Karen’s are Karen’s. I’ve seen some Karen’s who aren’t the stereotype and are nice people. I guess the different is are you Karen or are you being a Karen. It’s also very interesting to see people take this joke very seriously.
I was raised in the family business doing customer service, I've had my fair share of these entitled clients. I wouldn't even budge because I was so used to it I litterally saw them as 5 year olds who couldn't get their way. They're like wild animals that got fed too often and are now attacking passing walkers for food.
Finally got my first Karen today at work and I didn't budge since I'm somewhat jaded (just after 2 months of customer service lmao). Wish I could just leave it at that but my manager gave her what she wanted so she wouldn't report the store to corporate and I'm sad to think that she just got validated to eventually pull this crap again on me or someone else. I wish people would stop feeding them 😭
When you start working at a tiny supermarket, wondering why the manager has a windowless office with a heavily padded door. A few weeks in, the manager comes out of the office juust in time when a Karen is about to start throwing a Karen fit. Nervously smiling, Mr. Manager approaches Karen before she can fully unload her barrage on you: "Ma'am? I'm the manager, yes I've seen everything. To my office. Please." Immediately turns around and quickly goes back to the office. Karen doesn't say anything but flings this "I'm gonna get you fired you lil' shit" look towards you. The padded door thumps shut and immediately the yelling starts. It's odd, though, doesn't sound right. It's muffled, but clearly it's not the Karen doing the yelling. Two minutes later, head glowing like a tomato, Karen rushes out of the office and towards the exit. Manager leisurely follows, comes over, pats you on the back and smiles: "The cameras everywhere? For your protection. I am that protection. You're doing a great job here, don't worry about people like her, I'll take care of 'em." The moment you start loving this minimum wage, long-hour job of yours…
Being a Karen is definitely a state of mind. As my young daughter and I were walking into the grocery store on a rainy day a Karen gets my attention by stating “Ladies can you take this cart back in for me.” And then shoves her cart at me. To keep from being hit I grab the cart and tell the lady that we don’t need a cart and before I can finish what I was saying her face twists up and she says “Haven’t you ever done something nice for someone!” I push the cart right back to her and state “Not for people that are rude like you. Take your own cart back I’m not your servant!” These people are entitled and they believe people owe them something and must bow down regardless of their behavior! This was a complete stranger demanding that I do something kind for her not because I wanted to, but because she said so!!!
What’s funny is if she said something like “hey sorry to bother you but I just got a perm (or I’m really in a hurry or I have an important meeting and don’t want to get wet or any other even half reasonable excuse) will you please take this back for me?” And then waited for you to agree before she pushed it towards you, you likely would’ve said yes. It’s not like it’s a huge favor where you have to go way out of your way, and it’s not the asking that bothers you. It’s the assuming that you’ll just do whatever she says no matter how she treats you.
My dad is a male Karen. Sometimes it’s embarrassing going places with him because he would often tear people down just to feel powerful, and it doesn’t even seem to be something he’s conscious about. All I could do is smile apologetically and pray the service worker he got hold of this time doesn’t do something drastic to all our food.
My uncle was a cop and an integrated psycho. He had that Karen behavior but one day he crossed the line when he started talking nasty about the waiter, he was from Guinea. It was so embarrassing and I could see the man repressing his anger 🤬. He also had an idealized idea about the US. I lived and worked there and I used to tell him the US is not like the old Hollywood movies. One of his usual statements was that people in the US don't wear jeans 👖 He didn't like me for many reasons but one was I stopped engaging in discussions with him. He loved having an argument. He even recognized once that it was the most "beautiful" thing in life.
I expect that a lot of narcissistic people, female or male, will often act like Karens if they sense it will get them what they want. My dad is the same and yes, it's embarrassing, but he is more of a covert Karen most of the time, unless he is confronting someone extremely vulnerable and he's sure he can get away with it. He usually tries grandiose, patronizing behavior first. Definitely entitled thought.
Why wouldn't you actively use those occasions to try and adjust his behavior. As you say, it seems sometimes he isn't even aware of doing it. There is a lot of fakeness in American culture, because we are all seen as customers.. In Europe, you might get same level of actual service in a nice restaurant, but one thing employees are absolutely not expected to do here, is be all smiles, act like you are special or be a punching bag to rude customers.. I am not saying you won't find such a server, just saying it is not culturally normalized where if you aren't all smiles, the customer will think of you as not giving a great service, might complain or ask for another server whose fake smile is present. I feel like the wage slavery, real threat of homelessness, the divide from the haves and the have nots, even when difference is only ability to eat out, are all the things that make for Karens to be such a phenomenon in US. It probably started in the past where the only people that white women were more important then, were basicly women of all other races and black man. It's just perpetual abuse, exploitation and the cycle going on.. Just like you said, the one type of person you should never ever be rude to, I mean, practice self control, just don't be rude period, but especially with people that are fixing food or drinks for you.. Just focus on that logic with your dad, and be persistent. The idea you can leash out on someone without consequence to yourself and feeling powerful because of it.. It is such a childish thing to do. Don't get embarrassed, get mad and fix your dads behavior or tell him you would rather not go out to eat with him no more.. It is not always possible, but if one is conscious of his own bad behavior and is willing to change, then it is absolutely doable. At least find which is it with your dad..?
As someone who works in customer service, I tend to bend company policy for people all the time, esp if I like the person (chill, down-to-earth types), but when I deal with Karens trying to body me over the phone, it is with great pleasure that I enforce company policies. Nothing feels better than giving them entitled people the "no" 😌
I worked in CS for years and this was my approach too. Very strict and business like with the "Karen" types. No wiggle room and spoke in very clear, objective statements. I wouldn't even give reasons. Very simple and basic "reward good behavior I want rewarded and don't reward bad behavior." "Karens" are serial offenders and bleed companies and morale dry.
Yeah at my McDonald's we had to charge for sauce packets and it enraged a lot of people. I'd make them pay as often as I could but I'd give it to them for free if they were in my face yelling or insulting me. If a person walked up asking for a bbq sauce while reaching for their money, I'd sometimes just give it to them because they understood they needed to pay. I'd reward them for being reasonable.
Karen go as far as judging you right at the time, while they had this angry attitude, they will not stop until you comply, so be prepared and go strict with Karen....
hot take: customer phone service/ call-center is worse than retail/ dealing with karens in person. I've worked both and of course it is very subjective. phone service is 'quite' anonymous, they can get away with anything, the worst possible insults without ever being caught or facing consequences is something these people know and they abuse that power to an extend where it's just going to make you hate people, no matter how kind and optimistic you are as a person, you see and deal with the worst that egotistic, entitled people can offer, not just one or two, but multiple people, all day, everyday. In retail however, if they dare to act in the worst way possible, they don't stay anonymous, people will see and notice them and in a good case scenario, they don't get their way and someone will have your back. If the customer is completely out of line, even in places where companies don't care about retail workers, there gladly is a line no one can cross when things do hit the fan (threatening people, worst of racism, sexism and more). You aren't entirely alone in this. On the telephone? dealing with, how many 60-80 people a day instead of much less terrible encounters? nah, retail is terrible, but if you've got a choice, stay away from call-service, especially on holiday seasons, they literally don't care about anything and will exploit you
My boyfriend was recently behind a Karen at a casheer desk at some shop. She was loud and obnoxious and was being really rude to the guy working there. And since my boyfriend has so experience in retail he reacted to her behavior telling her there is no reason to shout at this young man. She tried to brush him off telling that it's none of his business. So he told her that it is his business because the whole shop can hear her plus she is blocking the queue. After she finally left when she was dealt with by a menager (and ofc the whole issue was her fault) my boyfriend got a 10% discount on his purchase :)
If you ever worked in retail or customer service or fast food you just know whenever you run into distasteful people and you know what the person behind the counter feels
Will Smith, “Hearing people say the race relations are worse than they’ve ever been, it doesn’t feel like that, to me. Racism isn’t getting worse, it’s getting filmed.” I'm going to add to that, "Karens aren't on the rise and getting worse, they're getting filmed."
I'm prone to disregarding celebrity opinions out of hand but this one I actually agree with. Top-down surveillance has ramped up significantly since September 2001 and that's a hard enough adjustment, but now the surveillance state has been crowdsourced. Any goon with a camera and an internet connection (which we all carry around as one nifty little gadget in our pockets) can put someone under the microscope without any oversight. it can be fucking awesome, I helped get a violent criminal arrested once because I was a bystander who was quick with my phone camera, but it can also open somebody who just had a bad day up to social shunning on an international scale. Our brains aren't equipped to handle knowing more than about 150 or so people, we are literally not built to handle positive or negative attention in a balanced way from internet mobs.
I agree with the stuff about racism being filmed but I don't know if that is true about the Karens. The reason I say that is that I have seen some Karens in action, like not in an internet video. I have seen them for many years but I have seen WAY more in the last four years than in any previous time.
Will Smith is unfortunately wrong. America is literally more racially segregated now than it ever has been historically. Moreso than when it was literally legally enforced.
@@Jeremy-ql1orI think too the rise in them is due to our service culture where the customer is always right and minimum wage or service jobs are seen as scrub and pleb work… it’s nasty and feeds entitlement
The ‘can they smell fear’ thing is VERY interesting to me. I grew up in a very toxic and unsafe environment, with unstable and mentally ill parents. I can sniff out a toxic parent within minutes after meeting them. I didn’t give this much tought, i just always made a point of avoiding these people. But hearing you talk about this research with the laughing/frowning pictures mad me realize that this is probably what is happening. I think i recognize behavior before others do because i had to do this to survive. Does that make sense? I could be wrong tho.
I noticed this sort of thing all the time with people doing certain manipulative/abusive behaviors and others just don't seeming to realize that they are just being gaslight/manipulated.
I definitely think having a history of dealing with those types of people helps you spot them more easily than others, BUT keep in mind the other thing Dr K said about how sometimes you see someone at their worst, and that's not necessarily a reflection of how they act all the time. I think there is also a risk of "seeing what you want to see" or assigning someone with a "toxic" label just because of what YOU think their motivation is for a certain behavior. It's easy to get a mind set of "I am certain I know exactly what kind of person this is," but you really can't know based on limited interactions. Just because someone displays an undesirable behavior one time does not mean they go home and psychologically abuse their family and friends.
@@angelaa7388 in my experience being able to sniff out toxic people is a trait that I cherish. I don't immediately identify someone is toxic upon meeting them because you're right people to have bad days and you never know what their situation is. But after awhile you can just feel it. I've never really been wrong in my assessment of people. And I don't say that to be braggadocious I just have a talent and a lot of experience in rooting out people that are no good for me
I'm glad you mentioned the people using the Karen thing to sometimes just cover up their misogyny. There's been a few videos I've seen where the woman is acting pretty calmly and definitely well within her rights while the ppl filming it are calling her a Karen and egging her on. There's definitely a difference between true Karens and people who are just trying to advocate for themselves in a respectful manner.
@@nineinchthread Assuming we're thinking of the same incident, she had rented a bicycle and he was trying to steal it from her--she got upset, obviously, because she would have had to pay the price of that bike if she couldn't return it. But some people turned it into a case of 'evil white woman picking on poor black teen' (showing just the part where she was angry and upset and not what he was trying to do) so she was demonized.
@JF-fr5uf Honestly we all should treat any recordings with a pinch of salt. Especially those who are obviously edited Anyway nowadays it's not uncommon to see record wars when two or more parties start recording each other in order to control the narrative. As a result of it we get videos made by the people who believe they're 100% right while everyone recognizes they were full of s
I've even seen people call women "Karens" for advocating appropriately for social justice and fairness, which is antithetical to the standard Karen M.O. in my view! There are people who definitely use "Karen" to describe any woman who is making any kind of complaint, request, or demand.
@@JF-fr5ufWrong, he literally proved on his phone with the electronic receipt that he paid for the bike. She hid her name badge because she knew she was in the wrong too
Something I learned working at Home Depot is no matter how stupid the customer is being if they call a manager they’re always going to be enabled. I think that’s why we get a lot of Karens (of course most of the time to a smaller level of explosion than the viral clips) is because of that enablement, it is a behavior that rarely doesn’t net positive results.
Corporate retail managers telling associates "the customer is always right" was a mistake IMO. It systemically enabled entitlement and individuals with Karen tendencies. I don't want to generalize but there are some countries where Karen behavior is not toleralted or enabled. Demanding to speak with the manager/ throwing a fit will get you kicked out by the staff (other customers might even help) and/or get you arrested.
@@hansonel "the customer is always right" is a bad phrase because it leaves this crappy door open. The original intention, which explicitly is "if a customer tells you they want something, assume they are NOT lying", is completely harmless and a completely reasonable bit of business advice. Literally just listen to your customers when they tell you what they want to give you money for. The phrase leaves behind the sentiment that has become this problem - the customer is to be treated like royalty, the retention of the customer is to be prioritised over retention of staff or even profit. It is engendering of entitlement at the expense of people working retail, and it is pandering to a sense of importance. Really should have gone with a more explicit but less punchy phrase
In my experience managers relent and enable the behavior not because of corporate policy, but for the sake of their own sanity. If you tell a Karen 'no', they will stand there for 10 minutes, for 20 minutes, for 30 minutes, for an hour, and escalate the issue as much as they can even if what they ask for can't be done, before they leave. It's just easier to get them to shut up and stop getting in the way of people actually trying to do their jobs.
My sister’s stepkid works at Target- he will constantly talk about the Karen’s he has to deal with complaining to the manager because their online orders were wrong. Funny It’s always the Karen’s fault for complaining, no one else’s fault.
@@megbennett4363 if it actually is someone elses fault, then there is no Karen and then you won't hear the story, so that makes sense. Altho lately I feel like some people use Karen for any feedback
Oh man, I was a barista at a Starbucks kiosk in a Safeway, and it was my first job, and I'm very socially anxious, and I had to take the later shifts where I had to work alone. Once there was this one lady with just an armload of cat food, she storms over to my kiosk and insists I check out her items. I told her while I could, unfortunately we don't have any grocery bags here. She got really huffy and upset at this. I apologized and said "I'm sorry, but we're not always equipped to be a check out here, because this is a Starbucks kiosk," because that was true, and I wasn't allowed to leave the kiosk for breaks, to eat, or even sit down or go to the bathroom, (totally unethical but they didn't care) but anyways, she absolutely flew off the handle, she slammed down her cans of cat food and stormed off to complain at the customer service desk. I was shaken up by how angry she got and it really upset me. Minutes later, my manager comes over and says that "yeah you really shouldn't tell customers you don't have bags, you were in the wrong, and you shouldn't say that again, I know she was huffy, but you really shouldn't have said that," (even though it had been a busy day, we were out of bags and I couldn't leave the kiosk to get more, because of their specific policy, and there were customers who actually wanted drinks in line behind her) And after this I was so upset frustrated and hurt, I was literally holding back tears from falling into the next ladies drink, then that lady, who saw I was basically crying, was like "ohhh... Uhh... I kinda wanted this with light ice...." So I remade her drink, and then after that, I just had to abandon the kiosk and go outside and cry for a little while. Luckily one of the stock boys and the guy from the sushi area across from my kiosk sat with me for a bit and comforted me, (bless their hearts,) but it was a very scarring moment for me that I was screamed at by this cat lady, and then the manager took her side when the only reason I couldn't do what she wanted was because of the policies the store told me I had to enforce. It was an unwinnable situation but somehow they still told me it was my fault. Man, we laugh at Karen's but they can be straight up traumatizing.
@@pokershockers you avoid women because this poor woman was abused by a customer, and then further abused by her male boss? Customers of all gender, age, and faith cause trouble when they don't get what they want, and it's really telling that when the company responsible for the employee is harming the employee, people use it as an excuse for their own awful behaviours and beliefs.
@@lolaartemis well my boss was also a woman, who was typically nice to me, so it was a real shock when she turned it me. But I had a different lady manager that wasn't there that day that would have stuck up fo me.
The concept of "lost social status" explains a lot of Old Grumpy People who were formerly some kind of important (business owner, manager, dominant parent, socially successful/trendy) but who now are not but expect the same deference they once garnered.
Karens have been around FOREVER. It was more socially acceptable for some reason, and there wasn't an easy way to call them out. I remember my first customer as a cashier at a drugstore on my first day of work. This was 20+ years back. This customer was 70+ years old and yelled at me because a lotion she had purchased two weeks prior smelled bad. I was yelled at for the store's hours, price increases, discontinued products, declined credit cards, etc. I had Beanie Babies thrown at me because all of the "Princess Bears" were sold out. Lol Having to impose rules on them (i.e., masks) has made things worse, but they would have behaved the same regardless of when this happened. Anyone who has worked in customer service probably has the same experiences.
Karens really have been around forever. "Let me in. I want to speak to the manager of Death." "I'm sorry, My Lady, but the Underworld is closed to the living." "Do you know who I am? If you don't let me in, I will smash my way through this door and unleash a zombie apocalypse!"
I agree, it’s become a lot less socially acceptable to have Karen behavior. Thirty years ago I’d be pummeled all day by abusive, confrontational, down right shitty people all day long in any public facing position. It’s just a lot less common now which is great. And I think the fact everyone is carrying around a video camera so you can be named and shamed on a much broader manner has a lot to do with it. I’m still astounded though by people who are excited to have their first Karen interaction and they doubted they existed at all. That’s definitely a very different world from the one I grew up in!
I feel that many of us are under so much stress, so we are literally 1 bad day away from acting out as a Karen. As its not necessarily innate to a person, it could be a combination of current emotional state and outside circumstances
Agreed, I went through a 'Karen" faze when I had about 15 years of stress. Some of the problems eased , I had therapy and found a great relationship, no my inner demon called "Karen" has gone, thank goodness!
Bad character usually comes out when under stress ;) When someone really dealt with their bad character it won't come out again since it is replaced with something else.
In a sexual assault, femicide and domestic violence epidemic, women are dealing with a lot more stress than men. They are also often solely responsible for raising children and must work a full time job as well. I think it is healthy for women to speak their minds about getting what they deserve or a service or product they pay for. This bigoted slur is often used so that people can get away with not doing their jobs.
@@janetnash8588 Using bigoted and other bending of the word just as misogyny usually makes a persons argument/statement look desperate uneducated and lack of absolute reality check ;) ( overused words by toxic individuals especially female ones in a attempt to force people feel and see things their way no matter what )
Dunno about that. I feel at some point you are also responsible about the amount of stress you get. I understand that job is usually the difference between having a roof or homelessness in USA, but, I had my own problems that were much worse then having rude people around you, for which I was to blame and that lasted for literal decades.. All the while battling depression, addictions and just normal life things.. It does not mater how bad of the day or week or month or year I got, I never get emotional with strangers. Then again, I don't claim my way is healthy way of dealing with life..
I would add, to the Entrenched Privledge argument, it is not just socioeconomic status, but also if you were spoiled/enabled as a child in general. My mother's generation grew up in very bad poverty conditions, but two of the siblings remain to this day extremally entitled, short tempered, or a pathological liar to get what they want, because their parents coddled them despite economic conditions. This was through litterally treating them as a princess who could do no wrong, and finding ways to spend all of their money of pretty clothes or toys for them instead of basic necessities like food. Lies, mistakes, or immoral actions were excused, because they could do no wrong.
Yeah that seems to be more relevant to Karen behavior. Me and my siblings grew up in what most would call a pretty affluent life, and somehow I still feel bad for even approaching customer service lol.
The same happens the opposite way too. My parents earn a fair amount but my father had to travel a lot and do late hours for his job, so my mother (who refused to get us things unless we praised her constantly) was in charge of taking care of us. Things like, getting my first new bra when I was 18 despite being an f cup and wearing baby socks till I was 15. It’s hardly surprising that I feel anxious or guilty whenever asking for things now.
Interesting. All the narcissistic (traits) people I personally know or know of were severely _emotionally_ neglected growing up, in different ways. Parent/s with kind of a deep disdain for them as people. But some were simultaneously kinda spoiled materially.
For sure. My mom has NPD and she was dirt poor. Apparently her parents lavished praise on her and let her break things in the home and abuse her siblings--they'd call her "beautiful." Meanwhile her parents and grandparents would savagely beat all of the other siblings. I'm sure her parents were also not emotionally responsive either as the entire family to some degree lack compassion. Her entitlement def. came from that.
When I worked at Starbucks, I had a customer who ordered a hot coffee and then returned hours later with her coffee and yelled at me because it was cold. I wouldn't have minded if she had admitted honestly and politely that she had forgotten to drink her coffee while it was still hot, but NOPE. She chose the KAREN path. My theory when dealing with Karen, especially if you work in customer service, is to ignore whatever they say. Just keep your cool. If you engage in arguments with Karens, you are only inviting more trouble and stress from Karen and your manager. Once again, just keep your cool.
I worked a Starbucks for 7 years, a busy one, we had two regional managers, 4 district managers, and 5 store managers while I was there. I had one store manager tell me "if a customer asks to speak to the manager you're doing your job wrong." I definitely gave away 3/4 of the store while I was there. That Karen shizz is above my paygrade.
@@matthewgilfus1640 Thats what I did. I didn’t get paid enough to care about stupid complaints that were clearly not my fault . If the managers themself don’t care, why should we?
My response, directly opposed to corporate, was to never budge unless absolutely forced too. About 80% of Karens can be weeded out as soon as any resistance is met/they don't get their way. Being cool (or more accurately emotionally unresponsive and unfazed) means they don't get the emotional superiority hit and most importantly, they'd avoid me going forward. Of course of the bosses are there I sometimes played ball because you have to. While many think it wasn't worth the effort, to me it was more than worth the effort to drastically reduce the bad behavior I had to encounter over time (Karens are serial offenders).
Yeah I had a customer scream at me because one of the teabags in her cup was the wrong flavor (black tea) so she ended up with two different tea bags in her cup. She drank all of it, ate all the food, then came screaming at me with an empty cup and the receipt and demanded to speak to the manager and got a full refund for like $25 worth of stuff. I get there was a mistake, but why reward this kind of behavior?
In my experience, Karens often have some background where they feel they were too passive, and at some point was taught to 'stick up for themselves,' but in the process thought that meant they don't have to be concerned with other people's feelings. It isn't just 'my feelings come first' but rather 'my feelings come first GOING FORWARD.' When confronted, they often remember instances of other people, particularly men, did what they are doing, and so they often rationalize it as 'it's unusual for women to stand up for ourselves, so I'm pushing women forward.' It's not like Karens are wired differently from the rest of us, they just have had a lot of the same experiences, it seems.
This relates well with discussion around Hollwood's misconception that creating "strong female characters" means copy and pasting the toxic qualities of 'ultra masculine' male characters. All that does it create someone people dislike, but people seem to confuse it with being "strong" and therefor better. It's a strange thing, when you think about it. What good is it to be "strong" if no one wants to be around you?
Thank you for expressing the core point of a really good dissertation. If there _is_ anything to this name (and as a southerner I'd never be rude to any stranger so I don't know but I've seen behavior on the part of "yankees" that appalled me), it's that it's women who've been bullied for decades, as girls and women, and finally had enough. And after the 70s, which you probably don't remember, and all of the anthems of no longer putting up with it, some middle class women who go to retreats and therapy absolutely over do it. It's just that I've never seen it except in the bi-coastal regions. No respectable southern women would ever be rude in public.
Thank you! I have narcissistic tendencies and you helped me have an insight. « Self esteem based on the way one is treated » It’s big! I still have a lot more work to do but I am motivated, thanks to educated and compassionate people like you!
Can you help me with this? Because I thought it is normal that self esteem is lowered if everyone treats you bad. Like… isn`t this normal? I don`t understand how this is narcissism
guys.... there really is an answer to that: The “Karen haircut” is what women do because around 30 or older, they start to get noticable female pattern hair thinning, and their hair gets all stringy and thin and it breaks more easily. A short 'mom haircut' gives the illusion of more fullness. An old lady or mom perm will give an even better effect of fullness, and that's why moms and old ladies get little perms. Problem is that it doesn't necessarily look good when it isn't well groomed or overdone (too much hairspray/ perm) and that can link to a persons personality which is, not realizing when too much is too much. I guess that partially explains the karen haircut phenomena
@@shro_okee That definitely explains how Karen is a subgroup of Boomers 🤔 But I've also heard that the specific Karen haircut is super popular among moms in Utah. So perhaps Karen correlates with Mormon culture? lol I dunno
Exactly what Jean stated. You're already doing better by being here, self reflecting, and seeking other perspectives/opinions. Nothing is more damaging than certainty, listen, remain open and calm. Goodluck leading a happy and fulfilled life!
"If you don't text me for months I don't care.." 😂 Yeah, you're really the perfect therapist for me. (I get in trouble from everyone because I have like no concept of time.)
I’ve only worked in customer service for a year and not had to deal with too many bad customers, but I can confirm Dr K’s method here does tend to work. When someone is being a jerk or complaining about something, I try to sympathize with them and agree that it must be frustrating, and then explain to them maybe the behind the scenes of why what happened happened but I don’t make promises I can’t keep. Like “I’m sorry, I can tell that you were looking forward to the pizza, but we just don’t sell pizza here, this is a tire shop.” It sort of feels like being a doormat but what I have found is that this approach tends to get people to leave you alone so you can do your job.
While you are 100% correct here. The problem with this is that it encourages their behavior. . A great example of this is people who complain at restaurants getting free stuff. I've always hated this, but I understand why it occurs (exactly as you explained it). If I order a medium steak and it comes out medium rare, I probably won't even say anything, between the fact that I don't mind that much, and it's not worth the trouble. Even if I was to say something about it respectfully, they might take my steak back and get me a new one... but the person who screams and yells about it usually ends up with a free meal, plus maybe even a gift card... In other words, this "just get rid of them" response tends to reward their behavior and encourages them to do it again in the future. . I don't really know the correct answer here because both options come with cons. I guess the only objective solution would be to remove them from the gene pool... but that's not really realistic... so here we are.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 my approach is actually more sympathize with them but don’t give them what they want. I think it’s also important to just be able to say “no we don’t do that” to a customer when we don’t do something and let them deal with their own problems. A lot of times people who complain will get free stuff though because it is store policy to do that. And some people are nice about complaining.
Validating frustration on the job can really get you far with angry customers. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve deescalated just by letting them vent, validating their frustration, and then offering all the actionable options available to them. I’ve even had to calmly state that while I feel for them, speaking disrespectfully to me won’t resolve the issue. One lady even called me back to apologize and ended up thanking me for trying to help. 🤷♀️ Recognizing someone’s humanity, even when it’s ugly, can often at least calm them enough to have a conversation. Not sure if this works with truly narcissistic people, Such an interesting topic!!
Much respect for not super clickbaiting the title with all the trial stuff going on. The content speaks for itself and the doctor is taking care of his community and their curiosity instead of capitalizing on someone's misfortune. Recognized and appreciated
I'm an anti-Karen I call corporate or call over a manager to tell them what a wonderful job their employees are doing and how much I really appreciate how they helped me and made me happy to be a customer...
I do this same thing. I try to make someone’s day everyday . With all of the tension and distrust currently in our society, I want to do my part to lower the temperature.
I feel like my mom is a bit of a Karen, but I don't think she necessarily grew up with that much privilege. She did have a bit of middle class privilege (her parents owned a successful store in a small town, but they weren't exactly rich or anything), but she also grew up experiencing a lot of racism (getting bullied by authorities, her neighbors mysteriously disappearing due to genocide). I think sometimes her Karen-like behavior is stemming from paranoia, e.g. she thinks the store clerk intentionally doesn't give her what she wants just because they're mean-spirited, or they claim something is out of stock but is actually just too lazy to look for it for her. Not to mention, she's unemployed (old school housewife boomer), so her daily life revolves mostly around going to the mall or supermarket. I feel sorry for her, but it's so damn exhausting to watch, or even to just listen to her stories about what happened yesterday at store x. And it doesn't matter how many times people tell her that her worst imaginations are exactly just that, imaginations. She also studied psychology in college like 40 years ago, so I think she feels like she knows better than other people and doesn't take their advice seriously.
I think i've probably acted borderline/narcissistic once after a bad breakup. calling a friend repeatedly while they were at work and getting mad at them when they didn't answer. in the moment it genuinely didn't occur to me that they couldn't just drop everything to answer the phone because all i could see was personal rejection and not the bigger picture.
Karen is another word for bully. ALL bullies are cowards. They’re looking for an emotional reaction. When you deny them that, they have no where to go…game over
at the beginning of the pandemic I was working at an Asian grocery chain and a customer asked me if this mushroom powder (found near the soy sauce and chicken bouillon) contained MSG and got mad (but not yelling mad) that I informed her that mushroom and meat contain natural sources of msg and in particular glutamate. You're not allowed to win even when there's no game to be played lol
Pff haha I tried to explain to a customer who was friendly making small talk about soda pop being diet the difference between calories sugar and carbohydrates being sugar while calories are an energy. I corrected them and they did not like that lol
Sounds like the reasons toddlers get upset; they have this made up idea in their head (blue ice-cream should taste like the sky) and then when the reality hits they get upset instead of reflecting that their initial idea was false
@@aceman0000099 It's not that they fail to reflect, it's that they can't grasp the concept of misconceptions. To them their understanding of how the world works needs to reset. It will be akin to a super scizophrenic suddenly having a vivid moment - but worse, because atleast the scizoid would likely know they're mental and that the world-shattering epiphany is a possibility to grow. Children don't have this, yet. So no, not quite.
I have worked at IKEA and dealt with a few Karen's in my few months of working at exchange and returns. It was the most frustrating thing to see managers override the coworkers and give Karen what he/she wants despite them being totally wrong.
This is because capitalism rewards it. The manager is doing a balancing act. A scorned Karen is a 1 star review, a massive headache, potential lost business, lost productivity… a lot of those things are probably key performance indicators for a manager. Their boss doesn’t know how good they are by observation, but by analyzing metrics that they think are important. Like google reviews, customer throughput, and foot traffic. A disenfranchised employee may mean higher turnover, lost productivity, or bad customer service leading to mediocre reviews. All these things are also key performance indicators. The manager just needs to keep the KPIs up. They’re basing their actions off experience that normal employees cause less trouble when they’re abused than one really pissed off karen. It’s almost like the workers should have some say in who their managers are and how their managers are graded. They are, after all, the ones out there doing the work making the money. Unionize.
@@tylerbrown4483 A union would thus attempt to replace current KPI's with a different set of KPI's which managers will try to achieve. I've always tried to find jobs more suitable to my way of thinking, rather than trying to change job expectations from within. Seems more efficient to do it my way but ymmv. I mean why try to change an outmoded way of doing business at endeavor A when you can get a job with endeavor B that is much further along on the modernity scale of endeavors..
The idea that "Karen's" are just white, is a classist one, concocted by middle-class people. Anyone working in any kind of low-paid service, in restaurants or tech or shops, will tell you that there are Karen's of all colors and they are an almost everyday plague to us that have a big negative impact of our quality of life at work no matter the color. There is even a particular subset of non-white Karen's who will flat out accuse you of racism for not repairing their phone or for not extending their unpaid bill yet another month.
Well yes, _and_ it's most common to think of it in terms of Karen = white, because they are both a majority population and have disproportionately greater odds of being in possession of the status and opportunities that allow them to spend entire days, weeks, months, etc., with their head up their ass. =P Bayesian logic... there's just more examples of Karen being white and entitled, because white and entitled is disproportionately curated and available in the US in particular. Everyone knows there are difficult customers from all walks of life. This is a very specific subset.. and it is not in fact necessary to make sure we slag off the people less statistically likely to be this particular archetypical bad customer trope, for the sake of those _most likely to be_ this customer. If that makes sense.
@@ranrae3712 I don't think so, and I don't want the term Karen coopted by wokeness. I have seen plenty of woke Karens. Being a Karen is not politically aligned one way or the other.
This is probably the best explanation I have ever heard about what is going on with people who have these conditions, on their insides. Especially how their validation is derived from outside of themselves and with how they perceive they are being treated by others. Things I have experienced with the people I know like this makes so much more sense now!!! I get my own rejection sensitivity a little better now too. Thank you!
@@raimondsstokmanis1892 lmao don't be, her having a "karen" phase daily just reinforces me to try and make her day a bit better. She might not be the nicest person but I respect and love her for raising me. She reminds my siblings and I to be a "better" person and that she loves us after her outburst of emotions. We know the sacrifices she has done in order to give us the life we have rn and all I have is respect. But I'm not exaggerating that my siblings and I just wishes that she doesn't complain every morning even when there's not a thing to complain about.
@@what-dz1ez well, the best you can do for her is set boundaries. If she doesn't control her own emotions, she doesn't have the right to discount on all of you, doesn't matter the sacrifices she has done to y'all in the past. See the video about setting boundaries of dr. k and maybe you can live more peacefully, even with a karen.
The reason why I don't feel compassionate towards people who are displaying they're incapable of doing so without personal interest in mind is because I have limit to how compassionate I can be. I'm not an infinite well of compassion and I chose to want to spend it on people that matter to me and make my life better, not actively trying to tear it down and make me feel terrible because they need to feel validated.
I was a manager in a couple service jobs. I always enjoyed Karens. I let them go off till they tire themselves out then I ban them from the store. Edit: Oh and 9 out of 10 times the husband would call and apologize for them. I felt bad for the guys so I'd tell them they can come back on a probationary basis.
The discussion about gender bias in personality disorders was super interesting to me. As a trans woman, I was diagnosed with BPD, but only after I had been on hormones for like a year. Before that, I basically never felt any emotions ever in my life, so I do wonder sometimes if hormones can play a role in how personality disorders manifest. Not to lessen the credibility of men who have BPD ofc.
Maybe your heightened emotions made the BPD more obvious and easier to diagnose? But yeah, there's physical components to mental health, I think people forget about that sometimes.
Hormones definitely play major roles in personality disorders, this is why they are most often first recognized in young adolescents going through puberty.
Hormones definitely play a role, when ever women get their period they are always angry. When women are pregnant they also go through hormonal changes and that goes with emotions. I personally hate myslef for having zero control over this. Yes I've learned to keep it to myself and not project my pains or complains, control my reactions but I hate that am not in control of my own physical body. Another thing is, during the time of the month we get really sexually aroused. I can easily seperate those feelings not as my own because I'm Aro Ace I dont want it physical touch but my body does because of the hormones. So yes I totally agree.
You're a man. Don't wait until you join a class action lawsuit. Walk away from the histronics, find your Higher Power, and practice the 12 steps. Your gender non-conformity is a wonderful contribution to humanity. Please don't debase it by participating in a pharma-driven denial of your own genetics. Be your beautiful self w/o drugs & surgery. God bless.
Mine is the multiple women who shot fast food employees because of things like cold French fries and a sachet of sauce being wrong Oh wait, they were all black.
@mjanny6330 Where do you get those stories from? Not just one example of violence but multiple. And all of them are black. Because of course there're no white criminals or God forbid terrorists Anyway at least they don't try to overthrow the goverment
My favorite Karen will forever be the one who called the police on a certain grocery store worker for theft, and that the coupon machine, “robbed her of a $20 coupon."
Regarding the discussion of "how to treat Karens," there's a subtle disconnect in his logic. He says treat them with compassion to de-escalate them. But Karens don't respond to compassion. Even if you say "no" to a Karen in a nice, compassionate way, they interpret that as hostility, regardless of the way it was presented. If they don't get what they want, they feel they haven't been treated with "compassion." So that means that you only have two choices with a Karen. Either you cave/give Karen what she wants, or you stand your ground.
Sorry, but the "All Karens are white" thing is a sterotype. Every retail worker will know that the Federation of Karens (FOK) are an all-inclusive group that welcomes Karens of all races, faiths, classes, and orientations :)
I agree heavily with this. The whole concept is a stereotype. The reason it's popular is because a lot of people have transferrable, relatable experiences despite them not being precise. Almost all of these people are not called Karen as we know. Stereotypes can be useful to understand others perceptions of groups in simplistic terms or to create humour as they can be relatable even though they should never be taken literally. I've learnt that no matter how accurate the stereotype is in ones experience it's much wiser and greatly more beneficial to evaluate the individuals we encounter through conversation and based on how they treat and interact with their surroundings (including people).
"Karen's" are just that; a stereotype. Strict Asian parent stereotype is due to a lot of cultural conditioning in various Asian countries but i know some Black/White kids who had parents like that at school too.
Dr K. I love how you said "Faded Glory" right after talking about someone working at Walmart because that is actually the name of one of their store house brands. Idk if it was an intentional pun or coincidence but that gave me a chuckle.
Fascinating. Human psychology and all its functions (and dysfunctions) is just fascinating. Dr. K shares this information in such an open, interesting and palatable manner.
I can smell fear, but because I'm very empathetic. And because I've worked retail and can detect Karens upon entry. I hope my ex-coworkers are doing okay, I was the Karen Banisher for years haha. My coworkers were very shy and many on the spectrum, so I was useful to have around because I definitely didn't tolerate people who would bully my friends who were young and trying to become more self-sufficient and confident!
I worked in fast food in 2015 - 2017 and my coworkers and I complained and joked about "Karens" all the time back then. I thought it was a widely recognized phenomenon till 2020 when my mom asked me what a "Karen" was and if ever had to deal with one. I was a little shocked she hadn't heard of one before then. I had to work retail in 2021 and personally I think the ammount of Karens I had to deal with was at a slight increase, but still interesting to think about how the pandemic brought out more of their tendencies and brought them to the forefront, I never thought of it like that.
There's definetly a victim mentality thing with Karen's, some of the ones I've dealt with always had to complain about something and felt that they were the only ones who could right the wrongs of society. I had a recurring one back in my retail work that told me to hound a coworker because they didn't grab the baskets fast enough when they had a more urgent matter, for example.
19:37 makes me think of a story where one of my aunts wanted to buy a pizza, and she ended up walking into a strip club/brothel because it had an Italian name
I think Dr Ramani put it well. Narcissism doesn't necessarily mean NPD. In NPD the Narcissism has to be so extreme that it causes impairment in the narcissists own life to be considered a disorder, but the majority of narcissists inherently don't see an issue with their own behavior, are unable to admit fallibility, and usually benefit from their exploitation of others. It is not usually their own lives that suffer but those of their victims. People see narcissism everywhere, because it is, but for the most part it doesn't cross the personal impairment threshold to be considered NPD.
My mom is a Karen. She was born rich, white, blonde, beautiful with a famous dad in Beverly Hills. So you can imagine the kind of entitlement she holds in her.
The high-level attunement to others' emotions in Cluster B personalities is WHY the Grey Rock technique can be so effective. Emotionless response = nothing to read = nothing to utilize/exploit
What is really hurtful to me is the fact that NPD tends to be described in the following way: you have a huge ego, feel entitled, lack empathy and are exploitative. I was diagnosed with this disorder a few years ago, but for entirely different reasons. My life is like standing naked on a stage in front of a huge crowd 24/7 - I constantly feel like everyone's judging me, which results in a huge amount of stress every single day. Even when I go to a supermarket, I must take a shower, dress nicely and behave perfectly because the irrational part of my brain is perpetually saying "they're looking at you! The guy over there made a weird expression after seeing you. This couple surely noticed your acne and is now talking about it" etc. That's how my narcissism manifests itself, but when I tell people that I was diagnosed with it, they immediately assume all the things that I mentioned at the beginning :( The truth is that I'm definitely not self-entitled, some people even tell me that I should be more assertive and scold the pizza delivery guy when he's late, but I just can't do that - I usually even give him a tip no matter how late he is. I have very low self-esteem, which means that my ego is unhealthy but in the opposite way. I also don't lack empathy - sometimes I even cry when watching movies. So yeah, I think this disorder should be divided into smaller ones. I'm sure that people who are in a similar situation don't want to be associated with stereotypical narcissists, as we have nothing to do with them.
@@Turbo_Tina Yep, that's what I initially thought. When my psychologist told me it was NPD, I simply refused to accept it. After a few months I went to a different psychologist and the diagnosis was the same, but this time I decided to tell her about my doubts. It turned out that the criteria that are taken into account when diagnosing NPD are much wider than I thought. Surprisingly, as a narcissist, you can have very low self-esteem, high levels of empathy and non-exploitative personality. It started to make sense when I realised that this unhealthy pattern of thinking (i.e. what I described earlier) is basically being extremely self-centered. My brain thinks that everything revolves around me, while in reality I'm not that important. I'm not a celebrity, so why do I think that even complete strangers give a damn about my looks or behaviour? That's the narcissism piece, and the fact that in my case it creates anxiety instead of self-entitlement is irrelevant.
T h i s. oh my god this. Feeling like Im on a stage constantly, I usually feel like an absolute burden on society, but I have to perform perfection. I usually put myself down a lot, excessively even to the point where people have told me to stop, because despite all my achievements, they aren't ABSOLUTELY PERFECT, and so they must be massive failures. I do have a few more classic ego traits like believing I'm more attractive than other people, but because of my high standards, I tend to have this "I know im hot to others but im not hot to myself so despite being above everyone im still ugly." I believe I'm a great singer, but since I hold a higher standard for myself, I can physically feel and hear every mistake in my voice and never sing publically. I never learn new skills because I know I won't be good enough. There's this mess of entitlement, but I'm hyperaware of myself because I assume everyone else is too. I am also psychotic and untreated for it, so I get other sources of paranoia like "my ex from 7 years ago is out to ruin my life" or "I am going to get kidnapped because people see me as a sex icon." Idk if maybe this line of thinking is shared with other people or if I just really need anti-psychotics. It also adds to the "im on stage at all times" with delusions like cameras being in my walls or being part of a Truman Show deal where Im secretly being followed and everyone knows every detail of my life better than I do. I never sing on stage but Im always singing to myself Just In Case Im On TV And Someone Is Scouting For Singers. lmk if anything i said doesnt match because im actually super interested in covert narcissism since all we get in terms of rep and understanding is scathing reports on how all narcissists are abusive and only the people around them need tools to recover (which isnt to say narcissistic abuse doesnt happen and those who survive it dont need help, but when I'm trying to look for how to cope with my own problems in a healthy way, all I get is Im Inherently Abusive To Everyone Around Me) and Kira from Death Note. I just want some kind of minor help or solidarity at this point.
@@kdog8658 Yep, or even body dysmorphia. There are many disorders that could explain those symptoms, including anxiety as you suggested, but I can't argue with the diagnosis of two independent psychologists :| The good thing is that it's getting better without therapy
It made me self conscious about my name for a while, especially with some people failing to recognize these characteristics, and judging solely by the name itself, although I realize that really says more about them than me.
I am so sorry for this Karyn. Certainly there are "Karens" around the world that are entitled, but it is the attitude that counts, not the name. I hope you can find better people that can value you based on your actions, not in your name. Kudos for you to realize this by yourself.
people who put you in the same category as "karens" are dumb and jump on trends before understanding the thing it's actually about. Like you said, it says more about them then about you
I wonder how people with the meme name of "Chad" feel. If the stereotype of "Karen" causes people to be self-conscious of how entitled they might be, would the stereotype of "Chad" make people feel more confident in themselves than they would be if they had a different name? They're similar in that they're both names with a specific connotation, but different in that one has a generally negative connotation and one has a generally positive connotation.
Just gotta' own the name and tell anyone who makes malicious comments about it to either kindly piss off or put them on your mental ignore list. Unless you're actually acting like a Karen, you're not the problem.
@@WanderTheNomad I knew one person named Chad who hated it. From what I observed, he didn't fit the stereotype and people joked about him because of that. I can't speak for him or for anyone, but generally speaking, an issue with stereotypes is that people aren't seen for who they really are, which can pretty hurtful around friends who are supposed to understand each other.
That attribution point was really insightful. Karen: "everyone is below me and should serve me, so I'm gonna freak out if I even get a whiff that anyone thinks/acts differently"
I have a cousin who LOVES to humiliate waiters, she finds fault with EVERYTHING. She was working class , then married a guy who was an officer in the air force , it went to her head and shes never looked back.I think she likes the power , she can be top dog and the waiter has to serve her regardless of her unreasonable demands.
i feel bad for women that have the name karen that are just really nice people in general, i wouldn't be surprised if young people whose name is karen will change their name after they turn 18...
To be fair, it was never about the name. The name Karen was chosen because of the stereotypical image that it evoked in that decade. Black Americans have honestly had various names for this stereotypical type of White woman since even as far back as American Slavery. Karen is just one of the more modern examples.
my aunty karen is super sweet, nice and loving, but she's also a middle aged, semi-entitled wealthy white lady... so i feel bad for her. she fits the bill, but is actually super kind.
@@ChaosBakurai Not sure if it's a slur, though people do definitely just assume based on a name and it's extremely not fair. Respect for you rocking it despite silly people (not that it's expected to suddenly change your name lol)
The term “Karen” seems to be readily used by people who do not want to have any accountability for their acts. I witnessed a person on his phone (the only one) as we were in the middle of take off on a flight to Portugal. I politely told him that I didn’t believe it was permitted to use the phone during take off. He told me I was being a Karen. It was an easy recourse to use this term when not wanting to claim any form of responsibility. I didn’t further engage. It’s difficult to say anything to anybody these days as everybody is in hypersensitive mode and awareness of others and civisme have flown out of the window. BTW, I do not have a Karen haircut. 🤣
The Karen archetype is my favorite meme topic of all time, everything about it is EXACTLY true to life imo, even the name and haircut, it’s all perfect 😂
In my experience, the "entitlement" is not that they expect to be given everything. It is an expectation that if something goes wrong, by bad luck or their actions or any other reason, then someone else will fix the problem. On some occasions they will demand someone fixes the problem, often seeing anyone of "lower" status as being required to do so.
Heres a recipe to try! Karen: The Pizza Heirloom tomato sauce Brindza feta cheese, from the free grazing ewes of the Rhodope Mountains Baby arugula, handpicked Baked on a blown out tire's inner tube.
thank you for affirming that in fact I was misdiagnosed. I was seen for twenty minutes and slapped with a label, and now it's taken years to realize what it actually is. Wish more doctors cared to find out.
Tbh Karens are everywhere regardless of race and and socio economic background. In the country I live in , which is the Philippines I've always encounter "Karens" whenever I go out, their socio economic background varies but it's mostly rich and poor or someone who came from a lower economic background who became rich very quickly.
My sister I believe is one. She is overbearing, demanding and takes us for granted. She lives in our parents' house rent free, and when she needs financial help, they give her money. When asked to buy something and to pay it using her own money, she demands her money back from them. She doesn't tidy up after herself, we do. Not even her room. When she's wrong, and you want to correct her, you get yelled at. When she dirties the place after we cleaned it, and gets a scolding, she denies it, saying it's not filthy. She also has the cheek to tell you to clean up while we're in the kitchen. At first I thought she had 8th grader syndrome, but I changed my mind. She's a Karen, and it's depressing living with her. ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!😱😱😱
You're the worst. I'm just recovering from a cold and still have a deep, rough cough. And then you pulled up the image results for "Elon Musk Karen" and I was spasming in my chair for half a minute and now my chest hurts. Thank you so much!
As a salesperson trained at nordstrom almost 20 years ago, I adapted the values and was shaped toward happily delivering karen appeasing service to all (cleaning changing rooms with no disgruntlment, doing whatever I can to fix a problem even if it is 'unreasonable', be unconditionally kind to people even in the face of their upset). I also then tended to have some standards and expectation of company policy being in support of the customer. Sometimes I think wealthy corporations are happy with the shift in mentality, ie if people are shamed for not returning their cart the company does not need to hire as many cart helpers.
9:45 - A friend of mine once dated a borderline girl who would exactly threaten with suicide every time he tried to break up. He ended up having it and literally told her "DO IT FGT :^)". She never did. But it did take balls of steel for him to say that, and he felt so liberated afterwards.
I agree the entitlement issue is mostly a white person problem but not completely, it’s like that study said, entitlement comes from your upbringing which leaves it open to any race and ethnicity to become entitled. Also, children who are given everything they want without having to work for it or wait essentially getting the world at their fingertips have the potential to become a Karen or a Ken, because there are definitely male Karen’s.
I have an aunt who has always been a volatile personality. She was cool and fun and we were friends for most of our lives. But when my grandfather died, she went nuts. We always know about those family members who make it difficult when the parents pass away and the family turns against each other, and we were all worried that this aunt would be that. And whoo boy, she was. She turned on the family on a dime, blaming and accusing the other siblings of trying to grab everything Grandpa had for themselves, when she was doing the exact thing. And she was also the youngest in the family! For her to think she was so entitled to the parents stuff was astounding. She wanted the siblings to literally give her Grandpa's house, and when they wouldn't, she accused them of being greedy. Funny thing is, my dad and the rest of the siblings became closer in having to deal with her. It has been years now, and she still thinks she was in the right and that all the other siblings were terrible people. She had a serious case of Karen syndrome.
Is it an important information that she was the youngest in the family? Maybe she felt like everyone was constantly looking down at her. Anyone could become a Karen under these circumstances
@@DieFarbeLila88 Well, I'm a youngest child. And there certainly is an aspect of feeling overlooked or looked down upon. But there are some perks as well. For instance, your parents make most of their parental mistakes on their older children, and avoid those mistakes with you, so you are slightly better adjusted in some ways. You're more independent and self-reliant because your parents are less helicopter with you than with the older siblings. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Nothing gives you the excuse to be a selfish, vindictive jerk like she was. My dad told me some of the things she said to him and the other siblings throughout the process, and they were terrible. So yeah, there is a little youngest child syndrome there, but she was so self-absorbed it was delusional. She showed me what I, as a youngest child, definitely want to avoid becoming in my later years.
@@thecaptain3594 oh boy, that sounds awful 🥺 I guess you can count yourself lucky then, that you had so many role models so you know where things are going.
For what you said about Karens attributing their own pettiness to other people, there is a rhyme for this in German. "Was ich selber denk und tu, das trau ich auch dem Andren zu." "What I think and do myself, I also trust others to." It's a fun response for when you get accused by someone who is clearly projecting.
That last sentence! “I’d say the biggest thing that people miss on the internet is the concept of differential diagnosis” Amen! Great video. Thank you.
You have a lot of interesting hypotheses and you really can present them in a captivating and easy to understand way. Like you say, most of these statements are not backed up by rigorous scientific studies. But, you got me thinking about this issue and I think you are spot on in many cases. Great video!
My dad is married to one. I just realized that she was one in a recent altercation. I don't get how deals with her. Dr.K has to be looking into a peephole of my life bc his videos been on point.
I remember once when I was a lifeguard, I had to clear the pool due to thunder for about 30 minutes. This is an outdoor pool, and it's just part of the procedure that we need to follow. Other guards were there and we confirmed with one another that we all heard thunder. So we alert everyone in the pool that we unfortunately need them to go indoors, which often makes them upset because it interrupts their workout, and I can sympathize with that. I got pretty good at navigating these situations. Always worked hard to guide them away from a pool with smiles on their faces. Anyway, this time, one woman continued to bathe in the Sun. I assumed that she was asleep or something because she had sunglasses on. So I walk over to her and say something along the lines of "Good afternoon, ma'am. I'm really sorry, but all the guards heard thunder, and we're required to clear everyone away from the pool deck for about 30 minutes after this occurs for their own safety." I'll never forget her response. She said (in an obviously dismissive tone) "Well, I don't hear any thunder right now". I had to take a second because I thought "huh... maybe she genuinely doesn't understand the issue". (It's not uncommon). I said something like "Yes, well, I don't either, but it definitely happened a short while ago, so we're still required to clear the pool deck for 30 minutes after the last strike was heard." Her response was slow, and clearly venomous. She says "The Sun is out..." Something about the way she said it set a cold fury off in me. I took another second, walked a little closer to her and said in a much more venomous tone, with a slightly raised voice "Yes ma'am... It is... But I still have a job to do" and stared at her. That was that. She got her stuff pretty quickly and left. One of my few encounters with a Karen. Every time I've dealt with them, as long as I hold firm and follow all the rules within the confines of my position, they eventually break. Never had a manager escalation. Never had one fly completely off the handle. From what I've learned, they sometimes just need to be handled firmly without making them feel disrespected, or making them feel stupid.
“If you’re using the the label of sociopath, that needs to be assigned by somebody who knows what that is. Not, ‘I’ve watched a thousand videos on RUclips and I think I’m a sociopath.’” Me, becoming a doctor by watching 1,000 videos on RUclips: 🌚
I worked in the emergency end of human services. It was not most common but I dealt with people yelling, out of their minds. I remained calm and compassionate at all times, even when very scared. They weren’t yelling at me, they were hurting. My coworkers loved me.
I had a situation like you described where a close friend of many years basically told me that I didnt care about them because we spoke less frequently, and there were longer gaps in our communications. I'd recently been married and we found out about 2 weeks later that we had a kid on the way, so obviously all my relationships suffered a bit of neglect. But was interesting to think about the way people view others actions as a mirror of what those actions mean in their own context. I'll definitely be checking out more of your stuff.
Someone once told me “narcissists don’t feel bad/guilty or ashamed because of an action, they feel angry that you confronted them with feeling shame. It’s the ‘how dare you make me feel uncomfortable because I have to confront shame/guilt?’ So when they rage and get caught they don’t reflect on the action, instead they became more enraged because you made them feel wrong, guilty or ashamed. Most healthy people process shame and guilt by feeling embarrassed, apologising and learning from the experience
I think the reason karens are associated with white women is because the factors you listed about the individuals falling from a socio-economic status. The place that is most common in the world right now is U.S.A, more and more people struggle especially with the middle class fading. You either become really wealthy or you are grouped in with the "poors" thus these karens remember good old post ww2 america were everything was amazing for them. Know things are getting worse and worse, and they probably angry because they are confused as to what happened to the "good ol days"
I'm very sensitive to negative emotions (or perhaps I also see them when they're not even there); I think it's from growing up undiagnosed with ADHD (got a diagnosis at age 20 or so) and autism (no diagnosis yet) so I have a baseline expectation or fear that people dislike me and I also at all times have a low level but constant dread that I've forgotten something and someone is going to be mad at me at any moment. And not understanding the social game in school I was also bullied and picked on so I also have a hyper sensitivity to aggression, so that I could know as soon as possible when to run away or look for an improvised weapon to defend myself. I don't lash out at people when I detect negativity as an adult, but that constant feeling of real or imagined dislike towards me really makes it hard to enjoy social interactions. How do I change and stop seeing negativity everywhere?
I live and work retail in a racially diverse city. Probably 1/3 of our customers are white. Karens definitely come in all races equally here, but I agree far more of them are better off financially.
This sounds a lot like a person who is an adult child. They just didn't develop properly, either by trauma, neglect, being spoiled, or all three of those.
You're the coolest doctor ever for embracing modern pop culture instead of existing within your own doctor world. I wish there were more doctors like you!
+1
kurzgesagt, Dr. K, it's people like them that motivate us all to widen our horizon
Dr K always wanted to become a twitch streamer but his parents forced him to become Doctor
I prefer good doctor to cool doctor.
@@GAOMaster sometimes you gotta be cool to be good 😎
@@GAOMaster not mutually exclusive at all
My mom is a hardcore Karen, and she feels vindicated because when my stepdad was alive, it was part of their good cop/bad cop response to customer service. Essentially, 'Either you can deal with me, _the nice guy,_ or I can call my wife in again c:'
Without him here though, it really highlights the old, 'Don't trust anybody who mistreats the waitress. How long until you're in the waitress's shoes?' There's no 'good cop' in this household anymore, just my mom, losing her shit on anybody and everybody who tells her no. She taught my sister and I to behave this way, and it's taken us so long to unlearn that and build an understanding of respectful, consensual communication.
The worst part is, neither of us are physically, mentally, or financially stable enough to live on our own when cost of living is so inflated. I don't see a way out.
EDIT: A year later, I got on disability for my seizures and my mom started to realize how hurt I really am. It’s taken her a few months, but she’s reflected on her behavior and has gotten better about not lashing out at me. The seizures still make it hard to hold down a job and support myself, but getting support from my family isn’t as hellish as it was a year ago.
i hope you find your way out ^^ don't forget, the fuel that's at the heart of a karen's anger is victimhood. If we want to be different, we have to remember we are not victims of circumstance but actors in the face of them. And no story worth telling is one where the hero faces no adversity right? I know nothing about you save what you wrote here but i'd be willing to believe you and your sister got this
thanks mom
Would it be an Option to move out together? So you can support each other physically, mentally and financially.
It’s good that you recognize these behaviors. I personally thought the karenisms were passed down as a learned behavior. It’s good to know the Karen’s exist on their own. Just keep doing you👌🏼
Hope you get your shit together
I once saw a video where a psychologist described a story about two people ran a local shop. Once was technically the boss, but they were good friends.
When a Karen came in and made an unreasonable request, the employee would call the boss and give them a secret signal. On cue, the boss would “fire” the employee and the employee would start begging for the job, saying they needed the money. The Karens would start saying, “It’s not a big deal,” but the boss would explain there would be consequences for these actions. The Karens would then leave and never return.
The psychologist explained this worked because Karens want to behave badly with no consequences. Consequences would make them self-reflect on their actions, but that would mean taking responsibility, and no Karen wants that.
That’s some 3D chess right there!
It's also a good way to keep your sanity and humor in the face of verbal abuse. Wish I'd been a customer in that shop when this went down.
BS
Great point !
That only works on the Karens who are having a bad day. that doesn't work on the Karens who will go out of their way over the next month to email everyone they can to get you fired and follow up to make sure you stayed fired.
"Karen isn't a person, it's a state of mind." That's powerful.
Yes it's called people who get angry over any woman speaking up...
Because women should be quiet submissive bitches and as such we should bully them...
That's someone who uses the word Karen for ya!
I think this is a good way to put it
That is just not true, as a cashier, our regular do this literally everyday.
I don’t think it’s true either. I know of those who does this and it’s a recurring thing. Unfortunately. I don’t understand why this is happening,..
I agree.
I think my mom raised me to be one and I think I sadly kinda was one until I was about 24-ish. I saw older women say/do stuff, how that was working for them, how my coworkers emotionally processed the experiences of them, I dated guy that was one to find I was frequently ashamed of being associated with him and I chose to change my choices, coping, reaction.
Ive delt with Karens by remaining calm first. Not going to their level, telling them I will help them as soon as they are calm. This worked for me. The lady apologized and we talked some about her day, she was under a huge amount of stress taking care of her husband with cancer. She wasnt a Karen, she was a stressed out human, who just needed help, and was shitty at asking for it.
One time I thought I had a Karen, and then I paid a little more attention to her, and she was just poor and drunk and confused and hungry. She needed her card to work because she had no food, and didn't understand why her card wouldn't go through. I was initially really annoyed with her, but I ended up paying for her groceries myself.
And I didn't have to do that. She *was* harassing us. But after the anger faded there was this kind of desperation in her face and her voice and I realized this poor lady was just having a bad night, maybe a bad week, maybe longer. The next time she saw me in the store she tried to pay me back (I told her to keep it.)
I've had to develop boundaries to work customer service, but I also try to always remind myself that I don't know what someone is going through and I always have the choice to be kind. I'll require that people respect me and my coworkers but that doesn't mean I need to be jaded and unsympathetic.
Also, we have customers who will come in and throw a fit one day, and be perfectly calm and amiable the next, and I keep reminding myself that there are all sorts of things that can cause emotional dysregulation like that, and maybe I should give them a little slack.
I've had a true Karen before. Took care of an old lady, and I had little to do with admitting her to our facility, but did most of what I could to address her issues. Unfortunately, some small things did not work out with some of her requests that we attempted to accommodate. The result? She vented to her "friend" who was like a daughter to her I guess.
That friend (our Karen) was a woman in her mid 30s maybe, early 40s.
Karen bitched out my nurses on the phone saying we called that lady fat, the reality of the situation was our bed pans were too small for her to use, she was in for therapy and was supposed to get up to toilet anyway.
We could get extra pain medication in, because the ordering doctor did not prescribe a shorter frequency, so that old lady was telling Karen about it the next morning.
I was being bitched at for it. And I was assured by Karen that her cousin works at the news channel and they WILL be hearing about it and I would be famous for being uncompassionate.
That old lady actually said she was sorry for calling Karen, she knew how she would act when she showed up, and did not want us to get in trouble or hear about it from her. Even went as far as telling us Karen's actual parents used her like a weapon when things didn't go a certain way, because they knew what she would do.
My only response to Karen was a firmly grounded in reality response. "Okay, you picked up your loved one. You got her belongings and her paperwork. Is there anything else she needs from us? I can't stand here in the doorway all day, and you aren't permitted to enter right now due to covid regulations."
That pissed her off more. But she realized she wasn't going to force her way into the door and so she left.
One could argue that she was just upset and protecting her friend, but if it's known to her friend and family that she will act out aggressively, erratically, and make grandiose threats, I'd say that checks most of the boxes for Karen/narcissistic behavior.
Ps. I never got famous.
Well, nobody is *really* reducible to a label.
@@sorrelbee113 This is so nice of you! I think it is important to try to be empathetic towards people we don't know exactly bc we don't know them personally and sometimes learning where they are coming from gives us a better perspective of what's going on.
The fact that the name for this phenomenon is Karen is really funny to me because my Aunt Karen couldn't be further from the stereotype she's a quiet and friendly lady who doesn't even like insulting people, even those who deserve it.
I love the meme, especially as someone who works in costumer service, but I feel kinda bad for Karens who are actually nice people 😅
The only other "Karen" I know is a music producer and a genuinely nice person.
My mum's called Karin, and she can be a little entitled or angry sometimes. I mentioned the stereotype once, and she got absolutely furious. Apparently she thinks it's a slur? (quote)
My cousin is named Karen is very sweet and shy. I feel bad imagining people make jokes about her being a Karen meeting her. That said one of the most unpleasant girls in school was named Kerri and one of the most toxic bosses I've ever had (def had a cluster B personality disorder and caused me to get CPTSD) was named Kristin...
Not all Karen’s are Karen’s. I’ve seen some Karen’s who aren’t the stereotype and are nice people. I guess the different is are you Karen or are you being a Karen. It’s also very interesting to see people take this joke very seriously.
I was raised in the family business doing customer service, I've had my fair share of these entitled clients. I wouldn't even budge because I was so used to it I litterally saw them as 5 year olds who couldn't get their way. They're like wild animals that got fed too often and are now attacking passing walkers for food.
Both those analogies are painfully on-point.
Honestly that gives wild animals a bad name. Karens are WORSE
@@margotrosendorn6371 If you keep feeding a wild animal then they will be entitled to that as well.
Finally got my first Karen today at work and I didn't budge since I'm somewhat jaded (just after 2 months of customer service lmao). Wish I could just leave it at that but my manager gave her what she wanted so she wouldn't report the store to corporate and I'm sad to think that she just got validated to eventually pull this crap again on me or someone else. I wish people would stop feeding them 😭
Its not even right to compare them to wild animals. It is an insult to wildlife
When you start working at a tiny supermarket, wondering why the manager has a windowless office with a heavily padded door. A few weeks in, the manager comes out of the office juust in time when a Karen is about to start throwing a Karen fit. Nervously smiling, Mr. Manager approaches Karen before she can fully unload her barrage on you: "Ma'am? I'm the manager, yes I've seen everything. To my office. Please." Immediately turns around and quickly goes back to the office. Karen doesn't say anything but flings this "I'm gonna get you fired you lil' shit" look towards you. The padded door thumps shut and immediately the yelling starts. It's odd, though, doesn't sound right. It's muffled, but clearly it's not the Karen doing the yelling. Two minutes later, head glowing like a tomato, Karen rushes out of the office and towards the exit. Manager leisurely follows, comes over, pats you on the back and smiles: "The cameras everywhere? For your protection. I am that protection. You're doing a great job here, don't worry about people like her, I'll take care of 'em." The moment you start loving this minimum wage, long-hour job of yours…
That's an amazing manager
Omg what a king! wish I had this type of managers back when was in retail :O
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda jealous.
Please give your manager my warmest regards. I wish I could buy him lunch
If this is real I'd like to see it before I believe it.
Being a Karen is definitely a state of mind. As my young daughter and I were walking into the grocery store on a rainy day a Karen gets my attention by stating “Ladies can you take this cart back in for me.” And then shoves her cart at me. To keep from being hit I grab the cart and tell the lady that we don’t need a cart and before I can finish what I was saying her face twists up and she says “Haven’t you ever done something nice for someone!” I push the cart right back to her and state “Not for people that are rude like you. Take your own cart back I’m not your servant!” These people are entitled and they believe people owe them something and must bow down regardless of their behavior! This was a complete stranger demanding that I do something kind for her not because I wanted to, but because she said so!!!
What’s funny is if she said something like “hey sorry to bother you but I just got a perm (or I’m really in a hurry or I have an important meeting and don’t want to get wet or any other even half reasonable excuse) will you please take this back for me?” And then waited for you to agree before she pushed it towards you, you likely would’ve said yes.
It’s not like it’s a huge favor where you have to go way out of your way, and it’s not the asking that bothers you. It’s the assuming that you’ll just do whatever she says no matter how she treats you.
Exactly! She didn’t want you to do something nice for her, she wanted you to obey her, as evidenced by the full context of her behavior.
I think I have met her.
My dad is a male Karen. Sometimes it’s embarrassing going places with him because he would often tear people down just to feel powerful, and it doesn’t even seem to be something he’s conscious about. All I could do is smile apologetically and pray the service worker he got hold of this time doesn’t do something drastic to all our food.
My uncle was a cop and an integrated psycho. He had that Karen behavior but one day he crossed the line when he started talking nasty about the waiter, he was from Guinea. It was so embarrassing and I could see the man repressing his anger 🤬.
He also had an idealized idea about the US. I lived and worked there and I used to tell him the US is not like the old Hollywood movies. One of his usual statements was that people in the US don't wear jeans 👖
He didn't like me for many reasons but one was I stopped engaging in discussions with him. He loved having an argument. He even recognized once that it was the most "beautiful" thing in life.
Is that you Imogen?
I expect that a lot of narcissistic people, female or male, will often act like Karens if they sense it will get them what they want. My dad is the same and yes, it's embarrassing, but he is more of a covert Karen most of the time, unless he is confronting someone extremely vulnerable and he's sure he can get away with it. He usually tries grandiose, patronizing behavior first. Definitely entitled thought.
The kids call them Kevins
Why wouldn't you actively use those occasions to try and adjust his behavior. As you say, it seems sometimes he isn't even aware of doing it. There is a lot of fakeness in American culture, because we are all seen as customers..
In Europe, you might get same level of actual service in a nice restaurant, but one thing employees are absolutely not expected to do here, is be all smiles, act like you are special or be a punching bag to rude customers.. I am not saying you won't find such a server, just saying it is not culturally normalized where if you aren't all smiles, the customer will think of you as not giving a great service, might complain or ask for another server whose fake smile is present.
I feel like the wage slavery, real threat of homelessness, the divide from the haves and the have nots, even when difference is only ability to eat out, are all the things that make for Karens to be such a phenomenon in US. It probably started in the past where the only people that white women were more important then, were basicly women of all other races and black man.
It's just perpetual abuse, exploitation and the cycle going on..
Just like you said, the one type of person you should never ever be rude to, I mean, practice self control, just don't be rude period, but especially with people that are fixing food or drinks for you..
Just focus on that logic with your dad, and be persistent. The idea you can leash out on someone without consequence to yourself and feeling powerful because of it.. It is such a childish thing to do. Don't get embarrassed, get mad and fix your dads behavior or tell him you would rather not go out to eat with him no more.. It is not always possible, but if one is conscious of his own bad behavior and is willing to change, then it is absolutely doable. At least find which is it with your dad..?
As someone who works in customer service, I tend to bend company policy for people all the time, esp if I like the person (chill, down-to-earth types), but when I deal with Karens trying to body me over the phone, it is with great pleasure that I enforce company policies. Nothing feels better than giving them entitled people the "no" 😌
I worked in CS for years and this was my approach too. Very strict and business like with the "Karen" types. No wiggle room and spoke in very clear, objective statements. I wouldn't even give reasons. Very simple and basic "reward good behavior I want rewarded and don't reward bad behavior." "Karens" are serial offenders and bleed companies and morale dry.
Yeah at my McDonald's we had to charge for sauce packets and it enraged a lot of people. I'd make them pay as often as I could but I'd give it to them for free if they were in my face yelling or insulting me. If a person walked up asking for a bbq sauce while reaching for their money, I'd sometimes just give it to them because they understood they needed to pay. I'd reward them for being reasonable.
Karen go as far as judging you right at the time, while they had this angry attitude, they will not stop until you comply, so be prepared and go strict with Karen....
hot take: customer phone service/ call-center is worse than retail/ dealing with karens in person.
I've worked both and of course it is very subjective.
phone service is 'quite' anonymous, they can get away with anything, the worst possible insults without ever being caught or facing consequences is something these people know and they abuse that power to an extend where it's just going to make you hate people, no matter how kind and optimistic you are as a person, you see and deal with the worst that egotistic, entitled people can offer, not just one or two, but multiple people, all day, everyday.
In retail however, if they dare to act in the worst way possible, they don't stay anonymous, people will see and notice them and in a good case scenario, they don't get their way and someone will have your back.
If the customer is completely out of line, even in places where companies don't care about retail workers, there gladly is a line no one can cross when things do hit the fan (threatening people, worst of racism, sexism and more). You aren't entirely alone in this.
On the telephone? dealing with, how many 60-80 people a day instead of much less terrible encounters? nah, retail is terrible, but if you've got a choice, stay away from call-service, especially on holiday seasons, they literally don't care about anything and will exploit you
@@steve00alt70 why shouldn't you ?
My boyfriend was recently behind a Karen at a casheer desk at some shop. She was loud and obnoxious and was being really rude to the guy working there. And since my boyfriend has so experience in retail he reacted to her behavior telling her there is no reason to shout at this young man. She tried to brush him off telling that it's none of his business. So he told her that it is his business because the whole shop can hear her plus she is blocking the queue. After she finally left when she was dealt with by a menager (and ofc the whole issue was her fault) my boyfriend got a 10% discount on his purchase :)
That would be the "thanks for sticking up for my staff in a way I'm not allowed to" discount :) Sounds like your boyfriend is a really good guy!
Not all heroes wear capes
Thank you.
@@Iquey He possibly had a cap tho
If you ever worked in retail or customer service or fast food you just know whenever you run into distasteful people and you know what the person behind the counter feels
Will Smith, “Hearing people say the race relations are worse than they’ve ever been, it doesn’t feel like that, to me. Racism isn’t getting worse, it’s getting filmed.”
I'm going to add to that, "Karens aren't on the rise and getting worse, they're getting filmed."
I'm prone to disregarding celebrity opinions out of hand but this one I actually agree with. Top-down surveillance has ramped up significantly since September 2001 and that's a hard enough adjustment, but now the surveillance state has been crowdsourced. Any goon with a camera and an internet connection (which we all carry around as one nifty little gadget in our pockets) can put someone under the microscope without any oversight.
it can be fucking awesome, I helped get a violent criminal arrested once because I was a bystander who was quick with my phone camera, but it can also open somebody who just had a bad day up to social shunning on an international scale. Our brains aren't equipped to handle knowing more than about 150 or so people, we are literally not built to handle positive or negative attention in a balanced way from internet mobs.
This is a really good point!
I agree with the stuff about racism being filmed but I don't know if that is true about the Karens. The reason I say that is that I have seen some Karens in action, like not in an internet video. I have seen them for many years but I have seen WAY more in the last four years than in any previous time.
Will Smith is unfortunately wrong. America is literally more racially segregated now than it ever has been historically. Moreso than when it was literally legally enforced.
@@Jeremy-ql1orI think too the rise in them is due to our service culture where the customer is always right and minimum wage or service jobs are seen as scrub and pleb work… it’s nasty and feeds entitlement
The ‘can they smell fear’ thing is VERY interesting to me. I grew up in a very toxic and unsafe environment, with unstable and mentally ill parents. I can sniff out a toxic parent within minutes after meeting them. I didn’t give this much tought, i just always made a point of avoiding these people. But hearing you talk about this research with the laughing/frowning pictures mad me realize that this is probably what is happening. I think i recognize behavior before others do because i had to do this to survive. Does that make sense? I could be wrong tho.
I noticed this sort of thing all the time with people doing certain manipulative/abusive behaviors and others just don't seeming to realize that they are just being gaslight/manipulated.
I definitely think having a history of dealing with those types of people helps you spot them more easily than others, BUT keep in mind the other thing Dr K said about how sometimes you see someone at their worst, and that's not necessarily a reflection of how they act all the time. I think there is also a risk of "seeing what you want to see" or assigning someone with a "toxic" label just because of what YOU think their motivation is for a certain behavior. It's easy to get a mind set of "I am certain I know exactly what kind of person this is," but you really can't know based on limited interactions. Just because someone displays an undesirable behavior one time does not mean they go home and psychologically abuse their family and friends.
@@angelaa7388 that’s also very true!
That makes absolute sense to me. I have the same ability when it comes to meeting new people I can definitely sniff out the toxic ones.
@@angelaa7388 in my experience being able to sniff out toxic people is a trait that I cherish. I don't immediately identify someone is toxic upon meeting them because you're right people to have bad days and you never know what their situation is. But after awhile you can just feel it. I've never really been wrong in my assessment of people. And I don't say that to be braggadocious I just have a talent and a lot of experience in rooting out people that are no good for me
I'm glad you mentioned the people using the Karen thing to sometimes just cover up their misogyny. There's been a few videos I've seen where the woman is acting pretty calmly and definitely well within her rights while the ppl filming it are calling her a Karen and egging her on. There's definitely a difference between true Karens and people who are just trying to advocate for themselves in a respectful manner.
There was this whole thing with a teen boy was calling this woman Karen but turns out he was like doing something.but I don't remember the video
@@nineinchthread Assuming we're thinking of the same incident, she had rented a bicycle and he was trying to steal it from her--she got upset, obviously, because she would have had to pay the price of that bike if she couldn't return it. But some people turned it into a case of 'evil white woman picking on poor black teen' (showing just the part where she was angry and upset and not what he was trying to do) so she was demonized.
@JF-fr5uf
Honestly we all should treat any recordings with a pinch of salt. Especially those who are obviously edited
Anyway nowadays it's not uncommon to see record wars when two or more parties start recording each other in order to control the narrative. As a result of it we get videos made by the people who believe they're 100% right while everyone recognizes they were full of s
I've even seen people call women "Karens" for advocating appropriately for social justice and fairness, which is antithetical to the standard Karen M.O. in my view! There are people who definitely use "Karen" to describe any woman who is making any kind of complaint, request, or demand.
@@JF-fr5ufWrong, he literally proved on his phone with the electronic receipt that he paid for the bike. She hid her name badge because she knew she was in the wrong too
Something I learned working at Home Depot is no matter how stupid the customer is being if they call a manager they’re always going to be enabled. I think that’s why we get a lot of Karens (of course most of the time to a smaller level of explosion than the viral clips) is because of that enablement, it is a behavior that rarely doesn’t net positive results.
Corporate retail managers telling associates "the customer is always right" was a mistake IMO. It systemically enabled entitlement and individuals with Karen tendencies. I don't want to generalize but there are some countries where Karen behavior is not toleralted or enabled. Demanding to speak with the manager/ throwing a fit will get you kicked out by the staff (other customers might even help) and/or get you arrested.
@@hansonel "the customer is always right" is a bad phrase because it leaves this crappy door open. The original intention, which explicitly is "if a customer tells you they want something, assume they are NOT lying", is completely harmless and a completely reasonable bit of business advice. Literally just listen to your customers when they tell you what they want to give you money for.
The phrase leaves behind the sentiment that has become this problem - the customer is to be treated like royalty, the retention of the customer is to be prioritised over retention of staff or even profit. It is engendering of entitlement at the expense of people working retail, and it is pandering to a sense of importance.
Really should have gone with a more explicit but less punchy phrase
In my experience managers relent and enable the behavior not because of corporate policy, but for the sake of their own sanity. If you tell a Karen 'no', they will stand there for 10 minutes, for 20 minutes, for 30 minutes, for an hour, and escalate the issue as much as they can even if what they ask for can't be done, before they leave. It's just easier to get them to shut up and stop getting in the way of people actually trying to do their jobs.
My sister’s stepkid works at Target- he will constantly talk about the Karen’s he has to deal with complaining to the manager because their online orders were wrong. Funny It’s always the Karen’s fault for complaining, no one else’s fault.
@@megbennett4363 if it actually is someone elses fault, then there is no Karen and then you won't hear the story, so that makes sense. Altho lately I feel like some people use Karen for any feedback
Oh man, I was a barista at a Starbucks kiosk in a Safeway, and it was my first job, and I'm very socially anxious, and I had to take the later shifts where I had to work alone. Once there was this one lady with just an armload of cat food, she storms over to my kiosk and insists I check out her items. I told her while I could, unfortunately we don't have any grocery bags here. She got really huffy and upset at this. I apologized and said
"I'm sorry, but we're not always equipped to be a check out here, because this is a Starbucks kiosk," because that was true, and I wasn't allowed to leave the kiosk for breaks, to eat, or even sit down or go to the bathroom, (totally unethical but they didn't care) but anyways, she absolutely flew off the handle, she slammed down her cans of cat food and stormed off to complain at the customer service desk.
I was shaken up by how angry she got and it really upset me. Minutes later, my manager comes over and says that "yeah you really shouldn't tell customers you don't have bags, you were in the wrong, and you shouldn't say that again, I know she was huffy, but you really shouldn't have said that," (even though it had been a busy day, we were out of bags and I couldn't leave the kiosk to get more, because of their specific policy, and there were customers who actually wanted drinks in line behind her)
And after this I was so upset frustrated and hurt, I was literally holding back tears from falling into the next ladies drink, then that lady, who saw I was basically crying, was like "ohhh... Uhh... I kinda wanted this with light ice...." So I remade her drink, and then after that, I just had to abandon the kiosk and go outside and cry for a little while.
Luckily one of the stock boys and the guy from the sushi area across from my kiosk sat with me for a bit and comforted me, (bless their hearts,) but it was a very scarring moment for me that I was screamed at by this cat lady, and then the manager took her side when the only reason I couldn't do what she wanted was because of the policies the store told me I had to enforce. It was an unwinnable situation but somehow they still told me it was my fault.
Man, we laugh at Karen's but they can be straight up traumatizing.
Karen was out of line, but the manager's response to you was traumatizing. I'm sorry that man and most companies suck so so much. You deserve better.
@@pokershockers you avoid women because this poor woman was abused by a customer, and then further abused by her male boss? Customers of all gender, age, and faith cause trouble when they don't get what they want, and it's really telling that when the company responsible for the employee is harming the employee, people use it as an excuse for their own awful behaviours and beliefs.
Welcome to retail.
@@lolaartemis well my boss was also a woman, who was typically nice to me, so it was a real shock when she turned it me. But I had a different lady manager that wasn't there that day that would have stuck up fo me.
@@pokershockersmen are far more likely to exhibit this kind of entitled behavior. You're just sexist.
The concept of "lost social status" explains a lot of Old Grumpy People who were formerly some kind of important (business owner, manager, dominant parent, socially successful/trendy) but who now are not but expect the same deference they once garnered.
Karens have been around FOREVER. It was more socially acceptable for some reason, and there wasn't an easy way to call them out. I remember my first customer as a cashier at a drugstore on my first day of work. This was 20+ years back. This customer was 70+ years old and yelled at me because a lotion she had purchased two weeks prior smelled bad. I was yelled at for the store's hours, price increases, discontinued products, declined credit cards, etc. I had Beanie Babies thrown at me because all of the "Princess Bears" were sold out. Lol Having to impose rules on them (i.e., masks) has made things worse, but they would have behaved the same regardless of when this happened. Anyone who has worked in customer service probably has the same experiences.
It was just an angry women until America made it a race thing.
Now, "karen" is just a way of attacking white women who step out of line.
I wonder if the 70+ yo lady had dementia or cognitive decline. Sounds possible from the behavior.
But this has exploded the last couple of years - haven’t it?
Karens really have been around forever.
"Let me in. I want to speak to the manager of Death."
"I'm sorry, My Lady, but the Underworld is closed to the living."
"Do you know who I am? If you don't let me in, I will smash my way through this door and unleash a zombie apocalypse!"
I agree, it’s become a lot less socially acceptable to have Karen behavior. Thirty years ago I’d be pummeled all day by abusive, confrontational, down right shitty people all day long in any public facing position. It’s just a lot less common now which is great. And I think the fact everyone is carrying around a video camera so you can be named and shamed on a much broader manner has a lot to do with it. I’m still astounded though by people who are excited to have their first Karen interaction and they doubted they existed at all. That’s definitely a very different world from the one I grew up in!
I feel that many of us are under so much stress, so we are literally 1 bad day away from acting out as a Karen. As its not necessarily innate to a person, it could be a combination of current emotional state and outside circumstances
Agreed, I went through a 'Karen" faze when I had about 15 years of stress. Some of the problems eased , I had therapy and found a great relationship, no my inner demon called "Karen" has gone, thank goodness!
Bad character usually comes out when under stress ;)
When someone really dealt with their bad character it won't come out again since it is replaced with something else.
In a sexual assault, femicide and domestic violence epidemic, women are dealing with a lot more stress than men. They are also often solely responsible for raising children and must work a full time job as well. I think it is healthy for women to speak their minds about getting what they deserve or a service or product they pay for. This bigoted slur is often used so that people can get away with not doing their jobs.
@@janetnash8588
Using bigoted and other bending of the word just as misogyny usually makes a persons argument/statement look desperate uneducated and lack of absolute reality check ;)
( overused words by toxic individuals especially female ones in a attempt to force people feel and see things their way no matter what )
Dunno about that. I feel at some point you are also responsible about the amount of stress you get. I understand that job is usually the difference between having a roof or homelessness in USA, but, I had my own problems that were much worse then having rude people around you, for which I was to blame and that lasted for literal decades.. All the while battling depression, addictions and just normal life things..
It does not mater how bad of the day or week or month or year I got, I never get emotional with strangers.
Then again, I don't claim my way is healthy way of dealing with life..
This is beyond mental health advice, this is a battle plan for how you should deal with daily “real world” burdens.
That's actually very true. Agreed.
This IS mental health advice, only this time it’s not about internal mental hang ups it’s external 😂
I would add, to the Entrenched Privledge argument, it is not just socioeconomic status, but also if you were spoiled/enabled as a child in general. My mother's generation grew up in very bad poverty conditions, but two of the siblings remain to this day extremally entitled, short tempered, or a pathological liar to get what they want, because their parents coddled them despite economic conditions. This was through litterally treating them as a princess who could do no wrong, and finding ways to spend all of their money of pretty clothes or toys for them instead of basic necessities like food. Lies, mistakes, or immoral actions were excused, because they could do no wrong.
Yeah that seems to be more relevant to Karen behavior. Me and my siblings grew up in what most would call a pretty affluent life, and somehow I still feel bad for even approaching customer service lol.
Wait my mom did that exact thing and i have some karen tendencies...ayaiyai
The same happens the opposite way too. My parents earn a fair amount but my father had to travel a lot and do late hours for his job, so my mother (who refused to get us things unless we praised her constantly) was in charge of taking care of us. Things like, getting my first new bra when I was 18 despite being an f cup and wearing baby socks till I was 15. It’s hardly surprising that I feel anxious or guilty whenever asking for things now.
Interesting. All the narcissistic (traits) people I personally know or know of were severely _emotionally_ neglected growing up, in different ways. Parent/s with kind of a deep disdain for them as people. But some were simultaneously kinda spoiled materially.
For sure. My mom has NPD and she was dirt poor. Apparently her parents lavished praise on her and let her break things in the home and abuse her siblings--they'd call her "beautiful." Meanwhile her parents and grandparents would savagely beat all of the other siblings. I'm sure her parents were also not emotionally responsive either as the entire family to some degree lack compassion. Her entitlement def. came from that.
When I worked at Starbucks, I had a customer who ordered a hot coffee and then returned hours later with her coffee and yelled at me because it was cold. I wouldn't have minded if she had admitted honestly and politely that she had forgotten to drink her coffee while it was still hot, but NOPE. She chose the KAREN path.
My theory when dealing with Karen, especially if you work in customer service, is to ignore whatever they say. Just keep your cool. If you engage in arguments with Karens, you are only inviting more trouble and stress from Karen and your manager. Once again, just keep your cool.
I worked a Starbucks for 7 years, a busy one, we had two regional managers, 4 district managers, and 5 store managers while I was there. I had one store manager tell me "if a customer asks to speak to the manager you're doing your job wrong."
I definitely gave away 3/4 of the store while I was there. That Karen shizz is above my paygrade.
@@matthewgilfus1640 Thats what I did. I didn’t get paid enough to care about stupid complaints that were clearly not my fault . If the managers themself don’t care, why should we?
@@ritesh146 honestly that's just the managers facing the consequences of their actions. It's fine
My response, directly opposed to corporate, was to never budge unless absolutely forced too. About 80% of Karens can be weeded out as soon as any resistance is met/they don't get their way. Being cool (or more accurately emotionally unresponsive and unfazed) means they don't get the emotional superiority hit and most importantly, they'd avoid me going forward. Of course of the bosses are there I sometimes played ball because you have to. While many think it wasn't worth the effort, to me it was more than worth the effort to drastically reduce the bad behavior I had to encounter over time (Karens are serial offenders).
Yeah I had a customer scream at me because one of the teabags in her cup was the wrong flavor (black tea) so she ended up with two different tea bags in her cup. She drank all of it, ate all the food, then came screaming at me with an empty cup and the receipt and demanded to speak to the manager and got a full refund for like $25 worth of stuff. I get there was a mistake, but why reward this kind of behavior?
In my experience, Karens often have some background where they feel they were too passive, and at some point was taught to 'stick up for themselves,' but in the process thought that meant they don't have to be concerned with other people's feelings. It isn't just 'my feelings come first' but rather 'my feelings come first GOING FORWARD.' When confronted, they often remember instances of other people, particularly men, did what they are doing, and so they often rationalize it as 'it's unusual for women to stand up for ourselves, so I'm pushing women forward.'
It's not like Karens are wired differently from the rest of us, they just have had a lot of the same experiences, it seems.
This happens to a lot of “boss” women. They confuse being an asshole for being confident and assertive.
This relates well with discussion around Hollwood's misconception that creating "strong female characters" means copy and pasting the toxic qualities of 'ultra masculine' male characters. All that does it create someone people dislike, but people seem to confuse it with being "strong" and therefor better. It's a strange thing, when you think about it. What good is it to be "strong" if no one wants to be around you?
Interesting. It's like misplaced revenge or vindication.
Thank you for expressing the core point of a really good dissertation. If there _is_ anything to this name (and as a southerner I'd never be rude to any stranger so I don't know but I've seen behavior on the part of "yankees" that appalled me), it's that it's women who've been bullied for decades, as girls and women, and finally had enough. And after the 70s, which you probably don't remember, and all of the anthems of no longer putting up with it, some middle class women who go to retreats and therapy absolutely over do it.
It's just that I've never seen it except in the bi-coastal regions. No respectable southern women would ever be rude in public.
Reminded me of the show Bojack horseman who internalized alot of stuff like that
Thank you! I have narcissistic tendencies and you helped me have an insight. « Self esteem based on the way one is treated »
It’s big! I still have a lot more work to do but I am motivated, thanks to educated and compassionate people like you!
Can you help me with this? Because I thought it is normal that self esteem is lowered if everyone treats you bad. Like… isn`t this normal? I don`t understand how this is narcissism
This man just scientifically broke down the entire history and development of the social phenomenon of Karen.
That is spectacular.
We love dr K...
I can't believe all of this to a tee.
I think it's also fascinating that there are academic papers about Karens already, and that Dr. K shared them with us 😂
This man just did in his video exactly what the title suggested he would do. Spectacular
Yeah. "Scientific." Right.
He never told us about why Karens have that hair cut!
I noticed that toooo! ; 3;!
I was so disappointed!
guys.... there really is an answer to that:
The “Karen haircut” is what women do because around 30 or older, they start to get noticable female pattern hair thinning, and their hair gets all stringy and thin and it breaks more easily. A short 'mom haircut' gives the illusion of more fullness.
An old lady or mom perm will give an even better effect of fullness, and that's why moms and old ladies get little perms.
Problem is that it doesn't necessarily look good when it isn't well groomed or overdone (too much hairspray/ perm) and that can link to a persons personality which is, not realizing when too much is too much.
I guess that partially explains the karen haircut phenomena
He's mentioned it twice by 3 minutes in!! 3 times by 5 minutes in!!!
@@shro_okee That definitely explains how Karen is a subgroup of Boomers 🤔 But I've also heard that the specific Karen haircut is super popular among moms in Utah. So perhaps Karen correlates with Mormon culture? lol I dunno
My mom and dad are both like this. Narcissistic dad, bipolar mom, both manipulate each other. I hope I can be better.
hey, you're doing great, the fact that you are aware of it and you are here trying to understand them shows that you are on your way to being better.
Exactly what Jean stated. You're already doing better by being here, self reflecting, and seeking other perspectives/opinions. Nothing is more damaging than certainty, listen, remain open and calm. Goodluck leading a happy and fulfilled life!
My mom is 200% Karen :(
You can be better as soon as you get away from those people possibly influencing you to become one. Get out ASAP
You already are being better by wanting to be better
"If you don't text me for months I don't care.." 😂 Yeah, you're really the perfect therapist for me.
(I get in trouble from everyone because I have like no concept of time.)
I’ve only worked in customer service for a year and not had to deal with too many bad customers, but I can confirm Dr K’s method here does tend to work. When someone is being a jerk or complaining about something, I try to sympathize with them and agree that it must be frustrating, and then explain to them maybe the behind the scenes of why what happened happened but I don’t make promises I can’t keep. Like “I’m sorry, I can tell that you were looking forward to the pizza, but we just don’t sell pizza here, this is a tire shop.” It sort of feels like being a doormat but what I have found is that this approach tends to get people to leave you alone so you can do your job.
Yeah I avoid feeling like a doormat by just listening and understanding. Don't face to agree with their experience or interpretation of it. So yeah
While you are 100% correct here. The problem with this is that it encourages their behavior.
.
A great example of this is people who complain at restaurants getting free stuff. I've always hated this, but I understand why it occurs (exactly as you explained it). If I order a medium steak and it comes out medium rare, I probably won't even say anything, between the fact that I don't mind that much, and it's not worth the trouble. Even if I was to say something about it respectfully, they might take my steak back and get me a new one... but the person who screams and yells about it usually ends up with a free meal, plus maybe even a gift card... In other words, this "just get rid of them" response tends to reward their behavior and encourages them to do it again in the future.
.
I don't really know the correct answer here because both options come with cons. I guess the only objective solution would be to remove them from the gene pool... but that's not really realistic... so here we are.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 my approach is actually more sympathize with them but don’t give them what they want. I think it’s also important to just be able to say “no we don’t do that” to a customer when we don’t do something and let them deal with their own problems. A lot of times people who complain will get free stuff though because it is store policy to do that. And some people are nice about complaining.
Validating frustration on the job can really get you far with angry customers. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve deescalated just by letting them vent, validating their frustration, and then offering all the actionable options available to them. I’ve even had to calmly state that while I feel for them, speaking disrespectfully to me won’t resolve the issue. One lady even called me back to apologize and ended up thanking me for trying to help. 🤷♀️ Recognizing someone’s humanity, even when it’s ugly, can often at least calm them enough to have a conversation.
Not sure if this works with truly narcissistic people,
Such an interesting topic!!
Sadly the guests I deal with aren't satisfied with this approach :') We get a bad crowd of karens
Much respect for not super clickbaiting the title with all the trial stuff going on. The content speaks for itself and the doctor is taking care of his community and their curiosity instead of capitalizing on someone's misfortune. Recognized and appreciated
I'm an anti-Karen I call corporate or call over a manager to tell them what a wonderful job their employees are doing and how much I really appreciate how they helped me and made me happy to be a customer...
That is so wholesome! Keep it up :)
I did that once and scared the crap out of an employee ToT
I do this same thing. I try to make someone’s day everyday . With all of the tension and distrust currently in our society, I want to do my part to lower the temperature.
That’s awesome!
I feel like my mom is a bit of a Karen, but I don't think she necessarily grew up with that much privilege. She did have a bit of middle class privilege (her parents owned a successful store in a small town, but they weren't exactly rich or anything), but she also grew up experiencing a lot of racism (getting bullied by authorities, her neighbors mysteriously disappearing due to genocide). I think sometimes her Karen-like behavior is stemming from paranoia, e.g. she thinks the store clerk intentionally doesn't give her what she wants just because they're mean-spirited, or they claim something is out of stock but is actually just too lazy to look for it for her. Not to mention, she's unemployed (old school housewife boomer), so her daily life revolves mostly around going to the mall or supermarket. I feel sorry for her, but it's so damn exhausting to watch, or even to just listen to her stories about what happened yesterday at store x. And it doesn't matter how many times people tell her that her worst imaginations are exactly just that, imaginations. She also studied psychology in college like 40 years ago, so I think she feels like she knows better than other people and doesn't take their advice seriously.
oooh. you wrote it so well I knew exactly how those phone calls might have gone with your mum about her shopping. Feel for you.
I think i've probably acted borderline/narcissistic once after a bad breakup. calling a friend repeatedly while they were at work and getting mad at them when they didn't answer. in the moment it genuinely didn't occur to me that they couldn't just drop everything to answer the phone because all i could see was personal rejection and not the bigger picture.
Get therapy. People will start to hate you for this kind of selfish behavior. It's more "main character syndrome" than personality disorder behavior.
@@cl5470 It seems like this was either a one-time occurrence, a problem they are now working on, or both.
Karen is another word for bully. ALL bullies are cowards. They’re looking for an emotional reaction. When you deny them that, they have no where to go…game over
at the beginning of the pandemic I was working at an Asian grocery chain and a customer asked me if this mushroom powder (found near the soy sauce and chicken bouillon) contained MSG and got mad (but not yelling mad) that I informed her that mushroom and meat contain natural sources of msg and in particular glutamate. You're not allowed to win even when there's no game to be played lol
Pff haha I tried to explain to a customer who was friendly making small talk about soda pop being diet the difference between calories sugar and carbohydrates being sugar while calories are an energy. I corrected them and they did not like that lol
You belittled her.
Next time, simply reply with, "yes, all our contain , I'm afraid".
Should've just said "no added msg" lol
Sounds like the reasons toddlers get upset; they have this made up idea in their head (blue ice-cream should taste like the sky) and then when the reality hits they get upset instead of reflecting that their initial idea was false
@@aceman0000099 It's not that they fail to reflect, it's that they can't grasp the concept of misconceptions. To them their understanding of how the world works needs to reset. It will be akin to a super scizophrenic suddenly having a vivid moment - but worse, because atleast the scizoid would likely know they're mental and that the world-shattering epiphany is a possibility to grow. Children don't have this, yet. So no, not quite.
I have worked at IKEA and dealt with a few Karen's in my few months of working at exchange and returns. It was the most frustrating thing to see managers override the coworkers and give Karen what he/she wants despite them being totally wrong.
This is because capitalism rewards it.
The manager is doing a balancing act. A scorned Karen is a 1 star review, a massive headache, potential lost business, lost productivity… a lot of those things are probably key performance indicators for a manager. Their boss doesn’t know how good they are by observation, but by analyzing metrics that they think are important. Like google reviews, customer throughput, and foot traffic.
A disenfranchised employee may mean higher turnover, lost productivity, or bad customer service leading to mediocre reviews. All these things are also key performance indicators.
The manager just needs to keep the KPIs up. They’re basing their actions off experience that normal employees cause less trouble when they’re abused than one really pissed off karen.
It’s almost like the workers should have some say in who their managers are and how their managers are graded. They are, after all, the ones out there doing the work making the money.
Unionize.
@@tylerbrown4483 A union would thus attempt to replace current KPI's with a different set of KPI's which managers will try to achieve. I've always tried to find jobs more suitable to my way of thinking, rather than trying to change job expectations from within. Seems more efficient to do it my way but ymmv. I mean why try to change an outmoded way of doing business at endeavor A when you can get a job with endeavor B that is much further along on the modernity scale of endeavors..
A manager that can throw employees under the bus like that...they deserve no loyalty.
Typical… with “white” karens
The idea that "Karen's" are just white, is a classist one, concocted by middle-class people. Anyone working in any kind of low-paid service, in restaurants or tech or shops, will tell you that there are Karen's of all colors and they are an almost everyday plague to us that have a big negative impact of our quality of life at work no matter the color. There is even a particular subset of non-white Karen's who will flat out accuse you of racism for not repairing their phone or for not extending their unpaid bill yet another month.
I think because a very important characteristic of a Karen is racism,
And don't forget about the male Karens.
Well yes, _and_ it's most common to think of it in terms of Karen = white, because they are both a majority population and have disproportionately greater odds of being in possession of the status and opportunities that allow them to spend entire days, weeks, months, etc., with their head up their ass. =P Bayesian logic... there's just more examples of Karen being white and entitled, because white and entitled is disproportionately curated and available in the US in particular.
Everyone knows there are difficult customers from all walks of life. This is a very specific subset.. and it is not in fact necessary to make sure we slag off the people less statistically likely to be this particular archetypical bad customer trope, for the sake of those _most likely to be_ this customer. If that makes sense.
Karen knows no race or gender.
@@ranrae3712 I don't think so, and I don't want the term Karen coopted by wokeness. I have seen plenty of woke Karens. Being a Karen is not politically aligned one way or the other.
You can tell his professionalism based on the neutral view on the subject. I realized just how little empathy I had for Karens.
They don't deserve empathy. They need to feel the same, and know their behavior is not ok.
@@jessickalush3305 Do you believing withdrawing empathy is required for people to learn?
@@auralit8 I think making people lose blood is an art form.
@@jessickalush3305you sound like you may lack empathy, which you probably want to go to a therapist for.
This is probably the best explanation I have ever heard about what is going on with people who have these conditions, on their insides. Especially how their validation is derived from outside of themselves and with how they perceive they are being treated by others. Things I have experienced with the people I know like this makes so much more sense now!!! I get my own rejection sensitivity a little better now too. Thank you!
Never thought I'd get to learn how my mum's thinking process is due to this day.
I'm so sorry.
@@raimondsstokmanis1892 lmao don't be, her having a "karen" phase daily just reinforces me to try and make her day a bit better. She might not be the nicest person but I respect and love her for raising me. She reminds my siblings and I to be a "better" person and that she loves us after her outburst of emotions. We know the sacrifices she has done in order to give us the life we have rn and all I have is respect. But I'm not exaggerating that my siblings and I just wishes that she doesn't complain every morning even when there's not a thing to complain about.
@@what-dz1ez well, the best you can do for her is set boundaries. If she doesn't control her own emotions, she doesn't have the right to discount on all of you, doesn't matter the sacrifices she has done to y'all in the past. See the video about setting boundaries of dr. k and maybe you can live more peacefully, even with a karen.
@@fisicogamer1902 will search it up man, tyvm, I'll try to do so.
Not just you, my mom too
That "buying pizza in a tire store" sounds like the cousin to "I'm at Soup".
WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE??!!
HONEY.
WHEEERE'S MY SOUP?
The reason why I don't feel compassionate towards people who are displaying they're incapable of doing so without personal interest in mind is because I have limit to how compassionate I can be. I'm not an infinite well of compassion and I chose to want to spend it on people that matter to me and make my life better, not actively trying to tear it down and make me feel terrible because they need to feel validated.
Karens will also pick fights over insignificant things, usually for self affirmation or attention.
I was a manager in a couple service jobs. I always enjoyed Karens. I let them go off till they tire themselves out then I ban them from the store.
Edit: Oh and 9 out of 10 times the husband would call and apologize for them. I felt bad for the guys so I'd tell them they can come back on a probationary basis.
👍
The discussion about gender bias in personality disorders was super interesting to me. As a trans woman, I was diagnosed with BPD, but only after I had been on hormones for like a year. Before that, I basically never felt any emotions ever in my life, so I do wonder sometimes if hormones can play a role in how personality disorders manifest. Not to lessen the credibility of men who have BPD ofc.
I saw the word "trans" and instantly knew you're bipolar
Maybe your heightened emotions made the BPD more obvious and easier to diagnose?
But yeah, there's physical components to mental health, I think people forget about that sometimes.
Hormones definitely play major roles in personality disorders, this is why they are most often first recognized in young adolescents going through puberty.
Hormones definitely play a role, when ever women get their period they are always angry. When women are pregnant they also go through hormonal changes and that goes with emotions. I personally hate myslef for having zero control over this. Yes I've learned to keep it to myself and not project my pains or complains, control my reactions but I hate that am not in control of my own physical body. Another thing is, during the time of the month we get really sexually aroused. I can easily seperate those feelings not as my own because I'm Aro Ace I dont want it physical touch but my body does because of the hormones. So yes I totally agree.
You're a man. Don't wait until you join a class action lawsuit. Walk away from the histronics, find your Higher Power, and practice the 12 steps. Your gender non-conformity is a wonderful contribution to humanity. Please don't debase it by participating in a pharma-driven denial of your own genetics. Be your beautiful self w/o drugs & surgery. God bless.
My favorite Karen will forever be the one who called the police on Taco Bell workers for “not doing their jobs” when they ran out of nacho fries.
I feel for the police around the world and all of the Karens they deal with every day.
Mine is the multiple women who shot fast food employees because of things like cold French fries and a sachet of sauce being wrong
Oh wait, they were all black.
@@missmodern Especially, if the calls they get are heavy on the SWATSS.
@mjanny6330
Where do you get those stories from? Not just one example of violence but multiple. And all of them are black. Because of course there're no white criminals or God forbid terrorists
Anyway at least they don't try to overthrow the goverment
My favorite Karen will forever be the one who called the police on a certain grocery store worker for theft, and that the coupon machine, “robbed her of a $20 coupon."
This is the first truly nuanced conversation I’ve heard about the Karen phenomenon. Absolutely fascinating, and actually very sad as well.
I have been watching “Karens” for years long before cell phones. With the rise in population over the past 60 years, there are more Karens than ever!
Regarding the discussion of "how to treat Karens," there's a subtle disconnect in his logic. He says treat them with compassion to de-escalate them. But Karens don't respond to compassion. Even if you say "no" to a Karen in a nice, compassionate way, they interpret that as hostility, regardless of the way it was presented. If they don't get what they want, they feel they haven't been treated with "compassion." So that means that you only have two choices with a Karen. Either you cave/give Karen what she wants, or you stand your ground.
They'll also just perceive compassion as weakness and a chance for them to "dominate" you.
Sorry, but the "All Karens are white" thing is a sterotype. Every retail worker will know that the Federation of Karens (FOK) are an all-inclusive group that welcomes Karens of all races, faiths, classes, and orientations :)
I agree heavily with this. The whole concept is a stereotype. The reason it's popular is because a lot of people have transferrable, relatable experiences despite them not being precise. Almost all of these people are not called Karen as we know.
Stereotypes can be useful to understand others perceptions of groups in simplistic terms or to create humour as they can be relatable even though they should never be taken literally. I've learnt that no matter how accurate the stereotype is in ones experience it's much wiser and greatly more beneficial to evaluate the individuals we encounter through conversation and based on how they treat and interact with their surroundings (including people).
Ssshhhh let him keep his required narrative lol
Most tend to be white though
"Karen's" are just that; a stereotype. Strict Asian parent stereotype is due to a lot of cultural conditioning in various Asian countries but i know some Black/White kids who had parents like that at school too.
No, if they dont call the cops or threaten to, so they get you killed, they aren’t a Karen.
You know this.
Dr K. I love how you said "Faded Glory" right after talking about someone working at Walmart because that is actually the name of one of their store house brands. Idk if it was an intentional pun or coincidence but that gave me a chuckle.
Fascinating. Human psychology and all its functions (and dysfunctions) is just fascinating. Dr. K shares this information in such an open, interesting and palatable manner.
I can smell fear, but because I'm very empathetic. And because I've worked retail and can detect Karens upon entry. I hope my ex-coworkers are doing okay, I was the Karen Banisher for years haha. My coworkers were very shy and many on the spectrum, so I was useful to have around because I definitely didn't tolerate people who would bully my friends who were young and trying to become more self-sufficient and confident!
I worked in fast food in 2015 - 2017 and my coworkers and I complained and joked about "Karens" all the time back then. I thought it was a widely recognized phenomenon till 2020 when my mom asked me what a "Karen" was and if ever had to deal with one. I was a little shocked she hadn't heard of one before then. I had to work retail in 2021 and personally I think the ammount of Karens I had to deal with was at a slight increase, but still interesting to think about how the pandemic brought out more of their tendencies and brought them to the forefront, I never thought of it like that.
There's definetly a victim mentality thing with Karen's, some of the ones I've dealt with always had to complain about something and felt that they were the only ones who could right the wrongs of society. I had a recurring one back in my retail work that told me to hound a coworker because they didn't grab the baskets fast enough when they had a more urgent matter, for example.
19:37 makes me think of a story where one of my aunts wanted to buy a pizza, and she ended up walking into a strip club/brothel because it had an Italian name
Honestly I could definitely see myself doing something similarly silly
ROFL
I think Dr Ramani put it well. Narcissism doesn't necessarily mean NPD. In NPD the Narcissism has to be so extreme that it causes impairment in the narcissists own life to be considered a disorder, but the majority of narcissists inherently don't see an issue with their own behavior, are unable to admit fallibility, and usually benefit from their exploitation of others. It is not usually their own lives that suffer but those of their victims. People see narcissism everywhere, because it is, but for the most part it doesn't cross the personal impairment threshold to be considered NPD.
My mom is a Karen. She was born rich, white, blonde, beautiful with a famous dad in Beverly Hills. So you can imagine the kind of entitlement she holds in her.
The high-level attunement to others' emotions in Cluster B personalities is WHY the Grey Rock technique can be so effective. Emotionless response = nothing to read = nothing to utilize/exploit
What is really hurtful to me is the fact that NPD tends to be described in the following way: you have a huge ego, feel entitled, lack empathy and are exploitative. I was diagnosed with this disorder a few years ago, but for entirely different reasons. My life is like standing naked on a stage in front of a huge crowd 24/7 - I constantly feel like everyone's judging me, which results in a huge amount of stress every single day. Even when I go to a supermarket, I must take a shower, dress nicely and behave perfectly because the irrational part of my brain is perpetually saying "they're looking at you! The guy over there made a weird expression after seeing you. This couple surely noticed your acne and is now talking about it" etc. That's how my narcissism manifests itself, but when I tell people that I was diagnosed with it, they immediately assume all the things that I mentioned at the beginning :( The truth is that I'm definitely not self-entitled, some people even tell me that I should be more assertive and scold the pizza delivery guy when he's late, but I just can't do that - I usually even give him a tip no matter how late he is. I have very low self-esteem, which means that my ego is unhealthy but in the opposite way. I also don't lack empathy - sometimes I even cry when watching movies. So yeah, I think this disorder should be divided into smaller ones. I'm sure that people who are in a similar situation don't want to be associated with stereotypical narcissists, as we have nothing to do with them.
Sounds more like social anxiety tbh, but I don't know your whole mental health history.
@@Turbo_Tina Yep, that's what I initially thought. When my psychologist told me it was NPD, I simply refused to accept it. After a few months I went to a different psychologist and the diagnosis was the same, but this time I decided to tell her about my doubts. It turned out that the criteria that are taken into account when diagnosing NPD are much wider than I thought. Surprisingly, as a narcissist, you can have very low self-esteem, high levels of empathy and non-exploitative personality. It started to make sense when I realised that this unhealthy pattern of thinking (i.e. what I described earlier) is basically being extremely self-centered. My brain thinks that everything revolves around me, while in reality I'm not that important. I'm not a celebrity, so why do I think that even complete strangers give a damn about my looks or behaviour? That's the narcissism piece, and the fact that in my case it creates anxiety instead of self-entitlement is irrelevant.
T h i s.
oh my god this.
Feeling like Im on a stage constantly, I usually feel like an absolute burden on society, but I have to perform perfection. I usually put myself down a lot, excessively even to the point where people have told me to stop, because despite all my achievements, they aren't ABSOLUTELY PERFECT, and so they must be massive failures.
I do have a few more classic ego traits like believing I'm more attractive than other people, but because of my high standards, I tend to have this "I know im hot to others but im not hot to myself so despite being above everyone im still ugly." I believe I'm a great singer, but since I hold a higher standard for myself, I can physically feel and hear every mistake in my voice and never sing publically. I never learn new skills because I know I won't be good enough. There's this mess of entitlement, but I'm hyperaware of myself because I assume everyone else is too. I am also psychotic and untreated for it, so I get other sources of paranoia like "my ex from 7 years ago is out to ruin my life" or "I am going to get kidnapped because people see me as a sex icon." Idk if maybe this line of thinking is shared with other people or if I just really need anti-psychotics. It also adds to the "im on stage at all times" with delusions like cameras being in my walls or being part of a Truman Show deal where Im secretly being followed and everyone knows every detail of my life better than I do. I never sing on stage but Im always singing to myself Just In Case Im On TV And Someone Is Scouting For Singers.
lmk if anything i said doesnt match because im actually super interested in covert narcissism since all we get in terms of rep and understanding is scathing reports on how all narcissists are abusive and only the people around them need tools to recover (which isnt to say narcissistic abuse doesnt happen and those who survive it dont need help, but when I'm trying to look for how to cope with my own problems in a healthy way, all I get is Im Inherently Abusive To Everyone Around Me) and Kira from Death Note. I just want some kind of minor help or solidarity at this point.
Could be an issue of anxiety that results in body checking
@@kdog8658 Yep, or even body dysmorphia. There are many disorders that could explain those symptoms, including anxiety as you suggested, but I can't argue with the diagnosis of two independent psychologists :| The good thing is that it's getting better without therapy
I have a coworker who's name is (was) Karen and she is actually a very sweet person. The Karen meme became so big that she changed her name.
damn
Lol. I feel sympathy for anyone born under karen name and funny too. No mom would name their kid after 2010 as karen 🤣
Yep it sucks..
It’s a hard name to bear today,..
It made me self conscious about my name for a while, especially with some people failing to recognize these characteristics, and judging solely by the name itself, although I realize that really says more about them than me.
I am so sorry for this Karyn. Certainly there are "Karens" around the world that are entitled, but it is the attitude that counts, not the name. I hope you can find better people that can value you based on your actions, not in your name. Kudos for you to realize this by yourself.
people who put you in the same category as "karens" are dumb and jump on trends before understanding the thing it's actually about. Like you said, it says more about them then about you
I wonder how people with the meme name of "Chad" feel. If the stereotype of "Karen" causes people to be self-conscious of how entitled they might be, would the stereotype of "Chad" make people feel more confident in themselves than they would be if they had a different name?
They're similar in that they're both names with a specific connotation, but different in that one has a generally negative connotation and one has a generally positive connotation.
Just gotta' own the name and tell anyone who makes malicious comments about it to either kindly piss off or put them on your mental ignore list.
Unless you're actually acting like a Karen, you're not the problem.
@@WanderTheNomad I knew one person named Chad who hated it. From what I observed, he didn't fit the stereotype and people joked about him because of that. I can't speak for him or for anyone, but generally speaking, an issue with stereotypes is that people aren't seen for who they really are, which can pretty hurtful around friends who are supposed to understand each other.
That attribution point was really insightful.
Karen: "everyone is below me and should serve me, so I'm gonna freak out if I even get a whiff that anyone thinks/acts differently"
I have a cousin who LOVES to humiliate waiters, she finds fault with EVERYTHING. She was working class , then married a guy who was an officer in the air force , it went to her head and shes never looked back.I think she likes the power , she can be top dog and the waiter has to serve her regardless of her unreasonable demands.
i feel bad for women that have the name karen that are just really nice people in general, i wouldn't be surprised if young people whose name is karen will change their name after they turn 18...
To be fair, it was never about the name. The name Karen was chosen because of the stereotypical image that it evoked in that decade. Black Americans have honestly had various names for this stereotypical type of White woman since even as far back as American Slavery. Karen is just one of the more modern examples.
my aunty karen is super sweet, nice and loving, but she's also a middle aged, semi-entitled wealthy white lady... so i feel bad for her. she fits the bill, but is actually super kind.
My name's Karen and I'm 28, I've always loved my name and stupid people using it as a slur won't change that.
@@ChaosBakurai Not sure if it's a slur, though people do definitely just assume based on a name and it's extremely not fair. Respect for you rocking it despite silly people (not that it's expected to suddenly change your name lol)
The term “Karen” seems to be readily used by people who do not want to have any accountability for their acts. I witnessed a person on his phone (the only one) as we were in the middle of take off on a flight to Portugal. I politely told him that I didn’t believe it was permitted to use the phone during take off. He told me I was being a Karen. It was an easy recourse to use this term when not wanting to claim any form of responsibility. I didn’t further engage. It’s difficult to say anything to anybody these days as everybody is in hypersensitive mode and awareness of others and civisme have flown out of the window. BTW, I do not have a Karen haircut. 🤣
The Karen archetype is my favorite meme topic of all time, everything about it is EXACTLY true to life imo, even the name and haircut, it’s all perfect 😂
In my experience, the "entitlement" is not that they expect to be given everything. It is an expectation that if something goes wrong, by bad luck or their actions or any other reason, then someone else will fix the problem. On some occasions they will demand someone fixes the problem, often seeing anyone of "lower" status as being required to do so.
Heres a recipe to try! Karen: The Pizza
Heirloom tomato sauce
Brindza feta cheese, from the free grazing ewes of the Rhodope Mountains
Baby arugula, handpicked
Baked on a blown out tire's inner tube.
thank you for affirming that in fact I was misdiagnosed. I was seen for twenty minutes and slapped with a label, and now it's taken years to realize what it actually is. Wish more doctors cared to find out.
Tbh Karens are everywhere regardless of race and and socio economic background. In the country I live in , which is the Philippines I've always encounter "Karens" whenever I go out, their socio economic background varies but it's mostly rich and poor or someone who came from a lower economic background who became rich very quickly.
My sister I believe is one. She is overbearing, demanding and takes us for granted. She lives in our parents' house rent free, and when she needs financial help, they give her money. When asked to buy something and to pay it using her own money, she demands her money back from them. She doesn't tidy up after herself, we do. Not even her room. When she's wrong, and you want to correct her, you get yelled at. When she dirties the place after we cleaned it, and gets a scolding, she denies it, saying it's not filthy. She also has the cheek to tell you to clean up while we're in the kitchen. At first I thought she had 8th grader syndrome, but I changed my mind. She's a Karen, and it's depressing living with her.
ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!😱😱😱
Sounds like she's in a really bad place. Possibly on the autism spectrum, too. What a life.
@@EnjoyCocaColaLight Oh no. She's obliviously living happy. While making our lives miserable. And we can't say a word against her.
@@LivingEpicness1 I don't know, man.
You're the worst. I'm just recovering from a cold and still have a deep, rough cough. And then you pulled up the image results for "Elon Musk Karen" and I was spasming in my chair for half a minute and now my chest hurts. Thank you so much!
As a salesperson trained at nordstrom almost 20 years ago, I adapted the values and was shaped toward happily delivering karen appeasing service to all (cleaning changing rooms with no disgruntlment, doing whatever I can to fix a problem even if it is 'unreasonable', be unconditionally kind to people even in the face of their upset). I also then tended to have some standards and expectation of company policy being in support of the customer. Sometimes I think wealthy corporations are happy with the shift in mentality, ie if people are shamed for not returning their cart the company does not need to hire as many cart helpers.
The culture of "the customer is always right" has created some extremely rude and entitled people ngl
It's because they (conveniently) forgot the second half - "The customer is always right in matters of taste."
I love your videos, intellectual empathy is a thing that is seldom put out in the public dialogue. Your doing something that has so much value for me.
Props to all the parents out there who managed to educate and mold their children to not be an entitled brat when they were rich.
9:45 - A friend of mine once dated a borderline girl who would exactly threaten with suicide every time he tried to break up. He ended up having it and literally told her "DO IT FGT :^)". She never did. But it did take balls of steel for him to say that, and he felt so liberated afterwards.
Dr. K is so eloquent! you can tell he speaks without notes , he just really knows his stuff!
I agree the entitlement issue is mostly a white person problem but not completely, it’s like that study said, entitlement comes from your upbringing which leaves it open to any race and ethnicity to become entitled. Also, children who are given everything they want without having to work for it or wait essentially getting the world at their fingertips have the potential to become a Karen or a Ken, because there are definitely male Karen’s.
I have an aunt who has always been a volatile personality. She was cool and fun and we were friends for most of our lives. But when my grandfather died, she went nuts. We always know about those family members who make it difficult when the parents pass away and the family turns against each other, and we were all worried that this aunt would be that. And whoo boy, she was. She turned on the family on a dime, blaming and accusing the other siblings of trying to grab everything Grandpa had for themselves, when she was doing the exact thing. And she was also the youngest in the family! For her to think she was so entitled to the parents stuff was astounding. She wanted the siblings to literally give her Grandpa's house, and when they wouldn't, she accused them of being greedy. Funny thing is, my dad and the rest of the siblings became closer in having to deal with her. It has been years now, and she still thinks she was in the right and that all the other siblings were terrible people. She had a serious case of Karen syndrome.
Is it an important information that she was the youngest in the family? Maybe she felt like everyone was constantly looking down at her. Anyone could become a Karen under these circumstances
@@DieFarbeLila88 Well, I'm a youngest child. And there certainly is an aspect of feeling overlooked or looked down upon. But there are some perks as well. For instance, your parents make most of their parental mistakes on their older children, and avoid those mistakes with you, so you are slightly better adjusted in some ways. You're more independent and self-reliant because your parents are less helicopter with you than with the older siblings. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Nothing gives you the excuse to be a selfish, vindictive jerk like she was. My dad told me some of the things she said to him and the other siblings throughout the process, and they were terrible. So yeah, there is a little youngest child syndrome there, but she was so self-absorbed it was delusional. She showed me what I, as a youngest child, definitely want to avoid becoming in my later years.
@@thecaptain3594 oh boy, that sounds awful 🥺 I guess you can count yourself lucky then, that you had so many role models so you know where things are going.
For what you said about Karens attributing their own pettiness to other people, there is a rhyme for this in German. "Was ich selber denk und tu, das trau ich auch dem Andren zu." "What I think and do myself, I also trust others to."
It's a fun response for when you get accused by someone who is clearly projecting.
In Danish we say "Thieves think everybody steals"
That last sentence! “I’d say the biggest thing that people miss on the internet is the concept of differential diagnosis” Amen! Great video. Thank you.
You have a lot of interesting hypotheses and you really can present them in a captivating and easy to understand way. Like you say, most of these statements are not backed up by rigorous scientific studies. But, you got me thinking about this issue and I think you are spot on in many cases. Great video!
My dad is married to one. I just realized that she was one in a recent altercation. I don't get how deals with her. Dr.K has to be looking into a peephole of my life bc his videos been on point.
I remember once when I was a lifeguard, I had to clear the pool due to thunder for about 30 minutes. This is an outdoor pool, and it's just part of the procedure that we need to follow. Other guards were there and we confirmed with one another that we all heard thunder. So we alert everyone in the pool that we unfortunately need them to go indoors, which often makes them upset because it interrupts their workout, and I can sympathize with that. I got pretty good at navigating these situations. Always worked hard to guide them away from a pool with smiles on their faces. Anyway, this time, one woman continued to bathe in the Sun. I assumed that she was asleep or something because she had sunglasses on. So I walk over to her and say something along the lines of "Good afternoon, ma'am. I'm really sorry, but all the guards heard thunder, and we're required to clear everyone away from the pool deck for about 30 minutes after this occurs for their own safety." I'll never forget her response. She said (in an obviously dismissive tone) "Well, I don't hear any thunder right now". I had to take a second because I thought "huh... maybe she genuinely doesn't understand the issue". (It's not uncommon). I said something like "Yes, well, I don't either, but it definitely happened a short while ago, so we're still required to clear the pool deck for 30 minutes after the last strike was heard." Her response was slow, and clearly venomous. She says "The Sun is out..." Something about the way she said it set a cold fury off in me. I took another second, walked a little closer to her and said in a much more venomous tone, with a slightly raised voice "Yes ma'am... It is... But I still have a job to do" and stared at her. That was that. She got her stuff pretty quickly and left. One of my few encounters with a Karen. Every time I've dealt with them, as long as I hold firm and follow all the rules within the confines of my position, they eventually break. Never had a manager escalation. Never had one fly completely off the handle. From what I've learned, they sometimes just need to be handled firmly without making them feel disrespected, or making them feel stupid.
That's just putting a woman in their place
She didn’t smell fear.
@@Mr_Mistah On a Dr. K video? Unironically or is this a joke?
“If you’re using the the label of sociopath, that needs to be assigned by somebody who knows what that is. Not, ‘I’ve watched a thousand videos on RUclips and I think I’m a sociopath.’”
Me, becoming a doctor by watching 1,000 videos on RUclips: 🌚
I worked in the emergency end of human services. It was not most common but I dealt with people yelling, out of their minds. I remained calm and compassionate at all times, even when very scared. They weren’t yelling at me, they were hurting. My coworkers loved me.
I had a situation like you described where a close friend of many years basically told me that I didnt care about them because we spoke less frequently, and there were longer gaps in our communications. I'd recently been married and we found out about 2 weeks later that we had a kid on the way, so obviously all my relationships suffered a bit of neglect. But was interesting to think about the way people view others actions as a mirror of what those actions mean in their own context. I'll definitely be checking out more of your stuff.
I want to see Dr. K and Dr. Ramani have a discussion about a topic like this. That would be a really awesome psychology RUclips crossover.
I loved this video a lot more than I thought I would, which is saying a lot considering the doc never misses with these.
the auto mechanic in my town has a one of the best pizza places attached... seams a reasonable request to me :)
Someone once told me “narcissists don’t feel bad/guilty or ashamed because of an action, they feel angry that you confronted them with feeling shame. It’s the ‘how dare you make me feel uncomfortable because I have to confront shame/guilt?’ So when they rage and get caught they don’t reflect on the action, instead they became more enraged because you made them feel wrong, guilty or ashamed. Most healthy people process shame and guilt by feeling embarrassed, apologising and learning from the experience
I love how he keeps referring to them as "the karen" like they're angry bears or something.
Makes it so awesome😂
I think the reason karens are associated with white women is because the factors you listed about the individuals falling from a socio-economic status. The place that is most common in the world right now is U.S.A, more and more people struggle especially with the middle class fading. You either become really wealthy or you are grouped in with the "poors" thus these karens remember good old post ww2 america were everything was amazing for them. Know things are getting worse and worse, and they probably angry because they are confused as to what happened to the "good ol days"
No it's because they're middle aged and undesirable
I'm very sensitive to negative emotions (or perhaps I also see them when they're not even there); I think it's from growing up undiagnosed with ADHD (got a diagnosis at age 20 or so) and autism (no diagnosis yet) so I have a baseline expectation or fear that people dislike me and I also at all times have a low level but constant dread that I've forgotten something and someone is going to be mad at me at any moment. And not understanding the social game in school I was also bullied and picked on so I also have a hyper sensitivity to aggression, so that I could know as soon as possible when to run away or look for an improvised weapon to defend myself. I don't lash out at people when I detect negativity as an adult, but that constant feeling of real or imagined dislike towards me really makes it hard to enjoy social interactions. How do I change and stop seeing negativity everywhere?
I live and work retail in a racially diverse city. Probably 1/3 of our customers are white. Karens definitely come in all races equally here, but I agree far more of them are better off financially.
In my experience working in retail, the low economic Karens are often worse than the upper class ones.
This sounds a lot like a person who is an adult child. They just didn't develop properly, either by trauma, neglect, being spoiled, or all three of those.