Glad to see the RC community leaders call out that guy in Cali that keeps putting people in danger! I hope too see other Reviewers call out people that are a danger to our Hobby. Your flying and coaching on landings have made helped me understand what to focus on and make second nature on landings. Great touch n go, it was a work of art! I really hope the Big RC companies out there hear you about customer support!
@@memcrew1 He posted his crash video within the last 24 hrs. He was flying a HobbyKing King Twin (NOT a small/light RC model - I have one) and crashed it into a beach house a few hundred feet from where he was standing. While taking off, the beach was very crowded. He had to wait for a clear path and took off with beach goers only a few feet away along the plane's path. He looks like a pre-middle aged guy who acts like a child, with a huge sense of entitlement. His RUclips channel has 9 whole subscribers (but lots of views) and is filled with hundreds of jet flights over, at times, a very crowded beach and over surfers in the water. Where I live, it is illegal to fly near or over people and buildings. His videos shows him doing exactly this all the time. This would be all the proof that the federal authorities would need to have him arrested. The authorities will only act if there is/are complainants and it's strange that nobody has called yet. Perhaps the owner of the beach house will be the first.
@@banzaiib As already said, I don't want to bring him any more attention than necessary. That's what he wants - he's very needy that way. Since I first posted here, his subscribers went from 8 to 11. It's taken him years to get that many. (Hint: InTheTubeDeep)
Youre spot on about Eurofighter V3 and Motion RC. MotionRc's customer service is really bad. To the point that I dont think we as a community should support or cover for them. You're so right about Horizon Hobby also. Going back over the years they have always been very reasonable and accommodating to legit issues. The key is legit issues. HH is so good please dont abuse them. Im so surprised that after a 5 year break from the hobby HH has handled my customer service issues the same as a decade ago. Id stick with them. Buy from RC Castle or elsewhere for Freewing jets. MotionRc needs to be forced to change or suffer consequences.
Glad to see you calling out beach guy in California. The guy is 20 minutes drive from 2-3 very well established club fields in the San Diego area but still insists on putting the hobby in jeopardy with his choices.
Yeah mate, Raymond at RC Castle is the man. Always responsive and willing to help. Motion is too expensive to ship to Aus anyway so we often go through Castle.
I couldn't agree more. When i started flying again around 7 years ago i bought from Motion and i used to brag about their customer service but that all changed when they went global. I know it's funny cuz allot of the guys i got to know quit like Alpha, Richard, pilot Ryan and some others so that tells me probably something happened within the company.
The guy picking the heaviest edf to take off on a beach has got to be the biggest example of what not to do in the rc community. Careless and reckless behavior that forces AMA and the FAA to create stricter rules and restrictions Thank you for Calling out stupid bullshit... i applaud you sir..
@@TwoBrosRC couldn't agree more, even after many people pointing out club options to the guy and explaining how he was endangering himself, bystanders and the hobby very clearly in certain *ahem* Radio Control online Groups...he just continues to do so and clearly states he doesn't care.
Thanks to the QC issues of my recent foam plane purchases I've been building balsa kits and having a great time revisiting my roots. Foam is convenient but flying something you built and you can't have delivered in 2 days if you bury it is so much more rewarding. I'll keep my Viper90 and V-1200 but the rest are getting liquidated.
Balsa has its place, as does kit building. It's important to remember that a lot of people don't have the time, money, or even any interest in building something from scratch. It's a sub-niche within a relatively small niche of RC flying. We're happy you enjoy it, but we prefer spending our time flying instead of building things that can easily wreck.
My favorite thing to do with my foam planes at the moment is to cover them in fiberglass and modify everything just the way I like it. It's not quite the same as building from Balsa, but it's a fun time and I can build a full plane in a couple weekends.
I feel you on the Motion RC support man! I have a thrust vectored SU-35 that the nose gear ripped out on the very first landing. I even have it on film, which I showed them. Didn't matter. I ended up buying a new fuselage.
Check our Gripen vid we just dropped. The CEO had a call with us and committed to improving their customer service significantly based on our feedback.
I always start landing with 2 minutes on the clock. the airfield I go to is packed so you have to sometimes go around a few times before you can land. So I thank you for recommending SMC high voltage they last longer! If you are using newer and or better please share! Thanks again for all the tips professor!
Freewings have pretty good quality landing gear, but they're notorious for being slightly glued to the foam and ripping out easily. I land my F22 on a fabric runway and the nose gear is loose, it won't even rip out without splitting the fuselage so I had to figure out how to shoot some glue in through the top. The Flightline Spitfire 1600mm also had the mains ripped right out with ease.
Very cool plane. Haven't flown one yet, but I'd like to! Great flying Jon. Oh and yes, the retract cycle times on Freewing planes are ridiculous, and quite inconsistent. I own several, and they are all different from quick like you'd expect to close 20 seconds.
Anything in the 80 to 90mm class usually comes with slow retracts with really slow gear door sequencers. Anything in the 70mm range usually has instant retracts. The slow retracts aren't the issue, it's the damned door sequencer. 18 seconds per cycle is just unacceptable.
@@TwoBrosRC Yep, my 80mm Avanti is quick, but it has spring loaded front doors. The Flightline 1.6 Corsair and Spitfire (made by FW) don't even start the retract sequence for several seconds after you flip the switch. To make them look good on a scale takeoff I actually have to flip the switch before I break ground.
They don't really compare. Eurofighter is a better jet that's been designed well from the ground up. Gripen is good but not in the ways that Eurofighter is.
Better is based on perspective. But between the two, the Eurofighter is a friendlier jet and requires much less aerodynamic understanding to fly well. Delta jets are generally far more stable than F/A-18s overall which are some of the hardest airframes to fly.
On point again Jon, what were some claims from Horizon that were denied? I find customer service levels can differ substantially with how you approach the situation, but the company needs to have a decent management structure to enforce consistency. A lot of these companies pop up and get big quick but don't invest in the service infrastructure and end up paying for it when times get tough.
The only claim we've ever had denied was a faulty AR637T receiver that they wanted sent in because the barometer wasn't working correctly and one of the channels was intermittently cutting out. It was the only time they'd ever not sent over an immediate replacement with an explanation.
Now another beautiful very well-made video, featuring this very nice flying Dorito, as you may say. Seriously, this looks like a beautiful flyer. I'm curious how you might stack this Eurofighter V3 against the Freewing JAS-39 Gripen 80mm which looks similar to the $4,100 Pilot-RC J-10?
Eurofighter is lighter and more maneuverable than Gripen, and also has the added benefit of flying a motor that produces more thrust to weight for the airframe. It's a much more enjoyable choice.
Very cool. You just nudged me that much closer to adding this to my list. I love the way the Eurofighter looks, and I believe it will also show up well under cloudy weather. This EDF will take me to a very different level from my Viper 90mm.@@TwoBrosRCAlso, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this Freewing Eurofighter design a few years old?
Nope, but it's on our pickup list at some point in the future. No experience with 8 cells on this jet. We prefer to stick with the lightest wing loading we can get, which means a single 6 cell battery.
The quick answer is no... Mirage is a 70mm class jet but freewing put an 80mm motor in it. That's why it flies super fast. Mine is still the older 1920kv motor. I heard some discussion about the plane starting to shake at a very high frequency at full throttle once replace with the new 2150kv motor.
@@mach9908 I've had that happen with the stock 1920kv on 8s. Turning off your gyro will stop it immediately. Reducing gain on the roll axis should help.
Hi Jon, thanks for all the great videos. Whenever I am considering buying a new plane I watch your review and 1-2 other channels and I am always happy with my purchase. I maidened my 8s Eurofighter today and I was VERY surprised by the amount of up elevator trim it required (Almost 10mm). I flew 2 4s 6000 50C HRB batteries and they were placed as far back as they could go. Everything was mechanically trimmed prior to flying and this was evidenced by the fact that both elevons are equal in the trim correction the plane required for level flight. Do you think that my main issue was the canards and elevons being still mixed through the board? I like your idea about splitting everything out but right now I only have an AR637T and a 10360T is almost $300 in Australia so it is hard to justify. Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated. Thanks for all your time spent on your channel.
Happy to hear we're able to help ya! The trim you're talking about is a consequence of nose heaviness which is exacerbated by the heavy batteries you had to put up front to run an 8 cell setup, especially two 6000 packs. Generally, an 8s setup is run as light as possible - so you'd try a pair of 4000s or below, not a pair of 6000s. The stock power system on 6 cells is rather powerful. We'd recommend considering "downgrading" to it, since the motor setup is actually really good for a 6s power system. You'll also significantly reduce the nose weight, too.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks for prompt reply. I figured that might also be the case, but I was not expecting a jet designed for 8s to require that much trim. Do you think adding tail weight like you did would help? I can also get smaller batteries as suggested but I think it will also need tail weight. The new 6s set-up is great but that will be a last resort as spending more money on a plane that was sold as 8s to get it flying correctly would be really frustrating. That said I will swap in 6s if I cannot get it improved. Amazingly enough it did fly well once the elevator was trimmed, so overall I am still happy with it. If I do swap to 6s, is there another 90mm jet you would recommend I upgrade to 8s with the system from the Eurofighter? I already have the F22 and F4 in 8s. How do you think the F-18 would handle it? Would I have the same CG issue? It is easier to justify the 6s swap on the Eurofighter if I am also upgrading another plane and the F-18 is a bit of disappointment with the stock 6s system. Thanks again for all your help and a great channel
If you fly it on 8 cells, fly it on lightweight packs. Use dual 2800 packs or 3600 packs - at most, 4400s. Otherwise you're loading a ton of weight in the nose. Tail weight will help balance it but at a significant cost in wing loading, which will make stalls easier to enter and harder to recover from. This advice applies to basically every airframe out there. For more in-depth info, join us on Discord and chat: bit.ly/TBRCDiscord
Hi i really like your’s videos and wanted to ask. Which jet wloud you recomemd me? I fly small jets like 64mm without gears and mostly propeller planes. Thank’s 😊
Agreed on warranty loosing business. Horizonhobby refused to warranty the ring gear on a 5th scale car of mine that was brand new. They lost my business and the business of my friends. I want the T28 Carbon Z and some other planes but refuse to buy them due to the warranty issue they didn't cover.
Wow! Great input! So well said, Thank you Guy's, cool down on the beach flyer. Has anyone personally spoke to him about it? My mom always said, "you get more with honey than vinegar". Something like that (lol), you get the meaning. Truthfully, I watched him fly on RUclips a few times and the beach was empty like my head when watching. Because there were virtually very very few to zero noted on the beach I didn't really think about it. So, I guess I"m guilty also because I thought the video was pretty cool. Although I do see the danger if the beach is populated. P.s. I do not and have never met the beach pilot but what I saw it was done safely. Sorry, Im sure you all will easily prove me wrong. I'm surprised I guess.
We've had multiple discussions with him as have many others. He has no interest in flying elsewhere and acts like he's being persecuted for putting people in danger.
Where he flys is a very busy public beach in a really wealthy neighborhood in front of a famous San Diego restaurant. I'm shocked he hasn't hurt anyone yet, but it's just a matter of time.
i don’t hate motion rc neither but being a 25 year old beginner since last december i started out just randomly finding and choosing motion rc because of their price for my affordability and moving on from micro rtf models but damn their customer support never makes me feel like i’ve accomplished the problem i’m stating or spare part needed, and they’ve always given me a short answer, like just links to stuff no info or real customer to company connection for being family friendly. if i could afford it now i would switch from the futaba system they provide which is all a money scam in my opinion which i’ve also been tricked into by all these small expensive things like telemetry which is an arm and a leg to afford and put together compared to the beginner friendly products horizon and fms offer
Like we said in the vid, we're not the only ones who have had a bad experience with them. We can understand one-off issues, but just about every support ticket we've heard about has been like yours. It's very unfortunate that they choose to act this way toward people who could spend their discretionary income at another company who actually cares.
As an alternative, I find more often than not that forums help give me clues when I'm trying to solve an issue but I never take that advice as gospel unless there's multiple people supporting a claimed solution, there's some sort of photo/video showing the fix or the fix is low risk enough for me to try it out. They're always a double edged sword with both dodgy and good advice.
I too have had less than stellar treatment from Motion. If they will rookydo a major player and RUclipsr such as yourself there really is no hope for the average Joe customer.
I've seen RC Castle online during searches for planes, and while they do sometimes have Planes in stock when other places don't , every plane I got shipping quotes for was around $200 to Michigan....Thanks, But No Thanks!
You have to keep in mind that the prices you're seeing are usually significantly less than what you see on the US retailer's site. Shipping is more expensive, but the US retailer bakes that price into the cost of the aircraft. If you want it in a reasonable timeframe (because their "free shipping" gets sent out whenever they feel like sending it), you have to pay for expedited shipping - which is usually about $50. The total cost comes within $100 of RC Castle in most cases, and their customer support is significantly less likely to tell you to pound sand.
Those in the US, get the so-called "free shipping". I say "so-called" because you actually think the shipping isn't already built into the product price? I have to have my stuff shipped cross border when I buy from Motion (and I have bought many from Motion in the past). My latest purchase was the Cougar. Not only am I paying the same "free shipping" price as US customers but I also must pay for added shipping to me. When the final calculation comes in (currency, shipping, customs, brokerage, taxes, etc), I paid nearly $100.00 LESS from RC Castle. It may be a "no brainer" for you in the US to buy from Motion but it's also a no brainer for many to buy from RC Castle.
@@TwoBrosRC I just ordered a pair of new 2150kv fans and 100amp ESCs for my freewing F-14 from rc castle based on the recommendation. I'm in no hurry to get them, but the clock is ticking 😀
Not to extend the whole MRC debate but is it possible to even get Horizon Hobbies to respond to you if you are not a youtube influencer? I ask as I have had a request in to HH for customer service for over 10 business days now and no response due to the system upgrade. Looking on RC groups that upgrade started sometime in July; is there a trick to getting customer service at Horizon Hobbies and it's affiliates?
HH was responsive to us long before we did anything notable on RUclips. The system upgrade appears to be the culprit here, not HH itself as a systemic issue. We'd recommend reaching out to them again via email or via the chat bot on the site.
@@TwoBrosRC Lol, I agree that they were responsive but not anymore. Believe me when I say that I have tried several chats, emailed support and sales directly, and nothing. Worst part about this is it's a sales question, I am actually trying to buy a product from them. As to the failed system upgrade (it's safe to say this as anything that takes over a month to do is in itself a failure), they seriously should consider firing the IT consultants and hire someone competent.
@@TwoBrosRC an arf plane, my question is around the use of gift cards and is something that thier customer service needs to answer. As a result I have been unable to complete my transaction, hence the frustrations. It's disappointing as HH used to be very customer friendly and sadly I don't get the feeling that they care anymore
They definitely care, but they're probably backlogged. We're sure there's an explanation, though it might not be one you're happy with. We pinged our HH rep to see if the keywords of "ARF" and "gift card" can be used by their support lead to find the ticket you've sent in and work with you. Assuming you sent in a ticket via email?
I'm too scared to buy from Motion RC as way too many complaints about customer service make me look to Horizon Hobby to buy an E-Flight or Hobby Zone product. Oh well...... hopefully sooner rather than later they'll hire a new VP of Customer Service and change the culture of that department. That'll lead to higher revenue......... if they're reading this I'll send you all my resume....;)
I've bought 6 edf jets from Motion RC in the past. Never had an issue with them. I don't doubt they have had issues in the past, but the complainers tend to be the loudest.
I've liked my Freewing planes better than my FMS/Horizon planes, but I also service all of my own avionics so I haven't really had to deal much with Motion's customer support.
None of the manufacturers are perfect by any means, but Motion RCs customer service is top notch crappy. That's why only 3/50+ planes have come from them. With 2 of those 3, I had issues (QC, missing parts, wonky ESC, smudgy paint, crap manual, etc.). Motion RC customer service did nothing. On a separate note, I contacted them over 6 months ago about Bancroft Mad Flow flex shafts. Was told they would be back in stock within a month. 5 months later...still out of stock. Hobbyking style. Yeah - thanks but no thanks!
Ummm it’s got a small downfall, the top cheater holes are square and in the top beam which causes an extreme weakness in the almost mid position. It could probably do with full length carbon
That isn't really a downfall. It's a jet, not a monster truck. It has to be landed gracefully else it'll potentially suffer structural issues. It's like saying "Getting hit in the head by a crowbar means your skull has an extreme weakness" - your head wasn't designed to take crowbar impacts. ;)
I 100% agree that MOTION SUCKS. They shipped me an F-4 with a bad elev servo and it was pure insulting agony to deal with them. Ditto my buddy who’s F-4 came count of the box with an obviously defective wing.
@@TwoBrosRC Last summer in the Aug-Sep time frame. I’d ordered 5 EDFs from them (north of $2500 worth, closer to $3k) and they acted like I was trying to scam them out of a single crappy servo. Tried to tell me that a jittering and unflyable elev servo was somehow “normal”. My buddy’s F-4 right wing was completely and severely popcorned right out of the box, completely destroying its aerodynamics. Between us he and I had owned 30+ foamies and never seen anything like this at any time on any plane or any age. Still, they insisted repeatedly that it was “normal” and that the distorted wing would fly just fine. It didn’t. We nearly lost it on the maiden while he focused 100% on flying while I reached over his shoulder to dial in full aileron trim to compensate for the one wing that didn’t want to fly. Even then -and only after threats to report their crappy quality and customer service in various forums- they would only send a raw wing (no components) to replace his defective PNP wing, forcing him to transfer gear and servos on his own.
This, of course depends on what you like and don't like and what kind of flying you like to do. I agree that the Eurofighter is a really fine RC airplane (mine is 8s) and flying off lumpy, bumpy grass, I've never had problems with the landing gear at all - yet. I've also had the Avanti S, V1 and just imagining what the V2 would be like, when comparing it to the EuroF., I agree that it may be better overall, HOWEVER, as long as we're doing the comparison game, I would also add that my Stinger 90 and my Eflite Viper 90 is better than all of the mentioned planes, even the Avanti S V1 and the new Cougar. It is highly unlikely that I would ever sell the EuroF. or the Stinger 90, yet I can see the Cougar getting dumped one day. But to re-iterate, that's a personal and individualized opinion. It's kinda like asking, "Which do you think is better? White or black socks?"
Chill? Karen wasn't even brought into the equation. Safety was. The question would be, if CA beach flyer was to fly a 90mph Jet into a person with a pointed Styrofoam nose, what kind of harm or death(s) could result? I don't a lot about Rc flying but I know enough that if an object flying at high speeds makes contact with a human face chances of serious harm or death is got to be exceptionally high!!! Wouldn't you agree?
@@marcymcsheehan3579 HE HAS! It's only by the shearest of circumstances that he hasn't impailed anyone. And he's dumb enough to document them all with posted videos. That would be "exhibit A, B, C, D ..........." when he ends up in court one day. It's going to be an ambulance chasing lawyer's field day.
>I seem to recall a video wherein the host of this channel is at an actual RC meet and nearly flies a plane into people standing nearby. He actually came closer to hitting people than anything this beach guy has. The difference (and it's a really big difference) is that the crash you're referencing happened at an event for RC airplanes. People who come to events like that tend to accept the risk of being there around flying machines. People don't go to a public beach expecting someone to fly a 100+ MPH jet around them that weighs over 10 pounds. The kind of flying this guy regularly engages in is the kind of flying that puts the hobby in an extremely negative spotlight. If we can't police ourselves, the FAA will be more than happy to do it for us.
@@TwoBrosRC Agreed! This current Eurofighter is NOTHING like the predecessor. "I've had 2 of those." It's like saying the "New Beetle" has been around since the days of Hitler.
Glad to see the RC community leaders call out that guy in Cali that keeps putting people in danger! I hope too see other Reviewers call out people that are a danger to our Hobby.
Your flying and coaching on landings have made helped me understand what to focus on and make second nature on landings. Great touch n go, it was a work of art!
I really hope the Big RC companies out there hear you about customer support!
Is the beach guy in Cali still around?
@@memcrew1 He posted his crash video within the last 24 hrs. He was flying a HobbyKing King Twin (NOT a small/light RC model - I have one) and crashed it into a beach house a few hundred feet from where he was standing. While taking off, the beach was very crowded. He had to wait for a clear path and took off with beach goers only a few feet away along the plane's path. He looks like a pre-middle aged guy who acts like a child, with a huge sense of entitlement. His RUclips channel has 9 whole subscribers (but lots of views) and is filled with hundreds of jet flights over, at times, a very crowded beach and over surfers in the water. Where I live, it is illegal to fly near or over people and buildings. His videos shows him doing exactly this all the time. This would be all the proof that the federal authorities would need to have him arrested. The authorities will only act if there is/are complainants and it's strange that nobody has called yet. Perhaps the owner of the beach house will be the first.
care to point me in the direction... i'm just curious now... and i have no idea who you're talkin about @@Xviperprime
@@Xviperprime Oh wow! I remember watching his videos a few years ago, and thinking he’s taking risks. He’s out of Sandiego.
@@banzaiib As already said, I don't want to bring him any more attention than necessary. That's what he wants - he's very needy that way. Since I first posted here, his subscribers went from 8 to 11. It's taken him years to get that many. (Hint: InTheTubeDeep)
We respect your honesty, you are 💯 correct ✅ by telling us all what’s on your mind. We come back here because of it. Keep it up 👍
Youre spot on about Eurofighter V3 and Motion RC. MotionRc's customer service is really bad. To the point that I dont think we as a community should support or cover for them. You're so right about Horizon Hobby also. Going back over the years they have always been very reasonable and accommodating to legit issues. The key is legit issues. HH is so good please dont abuse them. Im so surprised that after a 5 year break from the hobby HH has handled my customer service issues the same as a decade ago. Id stick with them. Buy from RC Castle or elsewhere for Freewing jets. MotionRc needs to be forced to change or suffer consequences.
Glad to see you calling out beach guy in California. The guy is 20 minutes drive from 2-3 very well established club fields in the San Diego area but still insists on putting the hobby in jeopardy with his choices.
We made sure not to mention him because we don't want to give him free exposure. It's really unfortunate that he chooses to endanger people.
@@TwoBrosRCnot talking about ruining his airplanes with the water and, salt and high humidity
Let the beef begin...
🐄
It appears that said person has taken down there RUclips channel.
Yeah mate, Raymond at RC Castle is the man. Always responsive and willing to help. Motion is too expensive to ship to Aus anyway so we often go through Castle.
Good stuff Jon, great flying. The "calling out" was 😂😂. I like this edf, can't afford it but I like it!!
I couldn't agree more. When i started flying again around 7 years ago i bought from Motion and i used to brag about their customer service but that all changed when they went global. I know it's funny cuz allot of the guys i got to know quit like Alpha, Richard, pilot Ryan and some others so that tells me probably something happened within the company.
Awesome video as usual! Thanks for the heads up with motion!
Thanks for your reviews and instruction videos! Eurofighter V3 is an amazing jet and you fly it masterfully!
The guy picking the heaviest edf to take off on a beach has got to be the biggest example of what not to do in the rc community. Careless and reckless behavior that forces AMA and the FAA to create stricter rules and restrictions
Thank you for Calling out stupid bullshit... i applaud you sir..
That Guy epitomizes everything wrong with some sections of modern society. "I don't care who it might hurt, I do what I want."
@@TwoBrosRC couldn't agree more, even after many people pointing out club options to the guy and explaining how he was endangering himself, bystanders and the hobby very clearly in certain *ahem* Radio Control online Groups...he just continues to do so and clearly states he doesn't care.
I will say I love both takes on jets. Glad to see you didn’t throw a tail dragger setup on this puppy.
Thanks to the QC issues of my recent foam plane purchases I've been building balsa kits and having a great time revisiting my roots. Foam is convenient but flying something you built and you can't have delivered in 2 days if you bury it is so much more rewarding. I'll keep my Viper90 and V-1200 but the rest are getting liquidated.
Balsa has its place, as does kit building. It's important to remember that a lot of people don't have the time, money, or even any interest in building something from scratch. It's a sub-niche within a relatively small niche of RC flying. We're happy you enjoy it, but we prefer spending our time flying instead of building things that can easily wreck.
My favorite thing to do with my foam planes at the moment is to cover them in fiberglass and modify everything just the way I like it. It's not quite the same as building from Balsa, but it's a fun time and I can build a full plane in a couple weekends.
I feel you on the Motion RC support man! I have a thrust vectored SU-35 that the nose gear ripped out on the very first landing. I even have it on film, which I showed them. Didn't matter. I ended up buying a new fuselage.
Check our Gripen vid we just dropped. The CEO had a call with us and committed to improving their customer service significantly based on our feedback.
@@TwoBrosRC I sure hope so! Love love LOVE my 80mm Freewing A-10 I got from them. Hope support is there if I ever need it!
Awesome vid!
I always start landing with 2 minutes on the clock. the airfield I go to is packed so you have to sometimes go around a few times before you can land. So I thank you for recommending SMC high voltage they last longer! If you are using newer and or better please share! Thanks again for all the tips professor!
Excellent flying as usual!
Jon, I totally agree that the Eurofighter is just awesome, and I love it too. But I think that you gotta try the new FW Cougar as well. You’ll love it
Nah, it's not really the kind of jet we're interested in. Appreciate the comment though!
@@TwoBrosRC fair enough 😊
I absolutely agree with your opinion on the landing gear.
Freewings have pretty good quality landing gear, but they're notorious for being slightly glued to the foam and ripping out easily. I land my F22 on a fabric runway and the nose gear is loose, it won't even rip out without splitting the fuselage so I had to figure out how to shoot some glue in through the top. The Flightline Spitfire 1600mm also had the mains ripped right out with ease.
This happens with other manufacturers too, but it is pretty common with Freewing jets.
Very cool plane. Haven't flown one yet, but I'd like to! Great flying Jon. Oh and yes, the retract cycle times on Freewing planes are ridiculous, and quite inconsistent. I own several, and they are all different from quick like you'd expect to close 20 seconds.
Anything in the 80 to 90mm class usually comes with slow retracts with really slow gear door sequencers. Anything in the 70mm range usually has instant retracts. The slow retracts aren't the issue, it's the damned door sequencer. 18 seconds per cycle is just unacceptable.
@@TwoBrosRC Yep, my 80mm Avanti is quick, but it has spring loaded front doors. The Flightline 1.6 Corsair and Spitfire (made by FW) don't even start the retract sequence for several seconds after you flip the switch. To make them look good on a scale takeoff I actually have to flip the switch before I break ground.
Every warranty request ive called in to Motion Rc they approved and same day shipped the replacement item.
Happy to hear that you've had no issues. Unfortunately that seems to not be the case for a lot of people.
Trustful channel !
Very nice review! So, which one do you like better, the euro fighter or the Gripen? Head to head how do they compare?
They don't really compare. Eurofighter is a better jet that's been designed well from the ground up. Gripen is good but not in the ways that Eurofighter is.
Hi Jon what flies better, this of the f18 90mm? If you had to choose one which would it be and why? Thanks for your vids, the best. -Ant
Better is based on perspective. But between the two, the Eurofighter is a friendlier jet and requires much less aerodynamic understanding to fly well. Delta jets are generally far more stable than F/A-18s overall which are some of the hardest airframes to fly.
On point again Jon, what were some claims from Horizon that were denied? I find customer service levels can differ substantially with how you approach the situation, but the company needs to have a decent management structure to enforce consistency. A lot of these companies pop up and get big quick but don't invest in the service infrastructure and end up paying for it when times get tough.
The only claim we've ever had denied was a faulty AR637T receiver that they wanted sent in because the barometer wasn't working correctly and one of the channels was intermittently cutting out. It was the only time they'd ever not sent over an immediate replacement with an explanation.
Love it! Is this a good beginner jet?
Definitely isn't, more of a fifth or sixth jet.
@@TwoBrosRC thank you for your reply!
Now another beautiful very well-made video, featuring this very nice flying Dorito, as you may say. Seriously, this looks like a beautiful flyer. I'm curious how you might stack this Eurofighter V3 against the Freewing JAS-39 Gripen 80mm which looks similar to the $4,100 Pilot-RC J-10?
Eurofighter is lighter and more maneuverable than Gripen, and also has the added benefit of flying a motor that produces more thrust to weight for the airframe. It's a much more enjoyable choice.
Very cool. You just nudged me that much closer to adding this to my list. I love the way the Eurofighter looks, and I believe it will also show up well under cloudy weather. This EDF will take me to a very different level from my Viper 90mm.@@TwoBrosRCAlso, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this Freewing Eurofighter design a few years old?
Have you flown the 80mm mirage? Curious how similar this flies. Also, any experience with the 8s version?
Nope, but it's on our pickup list at some point in the future. No experience with 8 cells on this jet. We prefer to stick with the lightest wing loading we can get, which means a single 6 cell battery.
The quick answer is no... Mirage is a 70mm class jet but freewing put an 80mm motor in it. That's why it flies super fast. Mine is still the older 1920kv motor. I heard some discussion about the plane starting to shake at a very high frequency at full throttle once replace with the new 2150kv motor.
@@mach9908 I've had that happen with the stock 1920kv on 8s. Turning off your gyro will stop it immediately. Reducing gain on the roll axis should help.
Hi Jon, thanks for all the great videos. Whenever I am considering buying a new plane I watch your review and 1-2 other channels and I am always happy with my purchase. I maidened my 8s Eurofighter today and I was VERY surprised by the amount of up elevator trim it required (Almost 10mm). I flew 2 4s 6000 50C HRB batteries and they were placed as far back as they could go. Everything was mechanically trimmed prior to flying and this was evidenced by the fact that both elevons are equal in the trim correction the plane required for level flight. Do you think that my main issue was the canards and elevons being still mixed through the board? I like your idea about splitting everything out but right now I only have an AR637T and a 10360T is almost $300 in Australia so it is hard to justify. Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated. Thanks for all your time spent on your channel.
Happy to hear we're able to help ya! The trim you're talking about is a consequence of nose heaviness which is exacerbated by the heavy batteries you had to put up front to run an 8 cell setup, especially two 6000 packs. Generally, an 8s setup is run as light as possible - so you'd try a pair of 4000s or below, not a pair of 6000s.
The stock power system on 6 cells is rather powerful. We'd recommend considering "downgrading" to it, since the motor setup is actually really good for a 6s power system. You'll also significantly reduce the nose weight, too.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks for prompt reply. I figured that might also be the case, but I was not expecting a jet designed for 8s to require that much trim. Do you think adding tail weight like you did would help? I can also get smaller batteries as suggested but I think it will also need tail weight. The new 6s set-up is great but that will be a last resort as spending more money on a plane that was sold as 8s to get it flying correctly would be really frustrating. That said I will swap in 6s if I cannot get it improved. Amazingly enough it did fly well once the elevator was trimmed, so overall I am still happy with it. If I do swap to 6s, is there another 90mm jet you would recommend I upgrade to 8s with the system from the Eurofighter? I already have the F22 and F4 in 8s. How do you think the F-18 would handle it? Would I have the same CG issue? It is easier to justify the 6s swap on the Eurofighter if I am also upgrading another plane and the F-18 is a bit of disappointment with the stock 6s system. Thanks again for all your help and a great channel
If you fly it on 8 cells, fly it on lightweight packs. Use dual 2800 packs or 3600 packs - at most, 4400s. Otherwise you're loading a ton of weight in the nose. Tail weight will help balance it but at a significant cost in wing loading, which will make stalls easier to enter and harder to recover from. This advice applies to basically every airframe out there.
For more in-depth info, join us on Discord and chat: bit.ly/TBRCDiscord
Hi i really like your’s videos and wanted to ask. Which jet wloud you recomemd me? I fly small jets like 64mm without gears and mostly propeller planes. Thank’s 😊
bit.ly/Rafale64 is our general recommendation for a great jet to fly.
@@TwoBrosRC thank’s and what wloud you recomend if something bigger? Rafale 64 is almost nit available in Europe
Is it possible to setup AS3X on this jet with only a six channel receiver? Or will the canards not work??
You can get AS3X but you won't have stabilized canards.
As3x will work on canards
Agreed on warranty loosing business. Horizonhobby refused to warranty the ring gear on a 5th scale car of mine that was brand new. They lost my business and the business of my friends. I want the T28 Carbon Z and some other planes but refuse to buy them due to the warranty issue they didn't cover.
Sorry to hear that!
Are you flying this on 6s or 8s?
6 cells.
What are your thoughts of the 8s version?
Wow! Great input! So well said, Thank you
Guy's, cool down on the beach flyer. Has anyone personally spoke to him about it? My mom always said, "you get more with honey than vinegar". Something like that (lol), you get the meaning. Truthfully, I watched him fly on RUclips a few times and the beach was empty like my head when watching. Because there were virtually very very few to zero noted on the beach I didn't really think about it. So, I guess I"m guilty also because I thought the video was pretty cool. Although I do see the danger if the beach is populated.
P.s. I do not and have never met the beach pilot but what I saw it was done safely. Sorry, Im sure you all will easily prove me wrong. I'm surprised I guess.
We've had multiple discussions with him as have many others. He has no interest in flying elsewhere and acts like he's being persecuted for putting people in danger.
Where he flys is a very busy public beach in a really wealthy neighborhood in front of a famous San Diego restaurant. I'm shocked he hasn't hurt anyone yet, but it's just a matter of time.
i don’t hate motion rc neither but being a 25 year old beginner since last december i started out just randomly finding and choosing motion rc because of their price for my affordability and moving on from micro rtf models but damn their customer support never makes me feel like i’ve accomplished the problem i’m stating or spare part needed, and they’ve always given me a short answer, like just links to stuff no info or real customer to company connection for being family friendly. if i could afford it now i would switch from the futaba system they provide which is all a money scam in my opinion which i’ve also been tricked into by all these small expensive things like telemetry which is an arm and a leg to afford and put together compared to the beginner friendly products horizon and fms offer
Like we said in the vid, we're not the only ones who have had a bad experience with them. We can understand one-off issues, but just about every support ticket we've heard about has been like yours. It's very unfortunate that they choose to act this way toward people who could spend their discretionary income at another company who actually cares.
As an alternative, I find more often than not that forums help give me clues when I'm trying to solve an issue but I never take that advice as gospel unless there's multiple people supporting a claimed solution, there's some sort of photo/video showing the fix or the fix is low risk enough for me to try it out. They're always a double edged sword with both dodgy and good advice.
I too have had less than stellar treatment from Motion. If they will rookydo a major player and RUclipsr such as yourself there really is no hope for the average Joe customer.
"Where Customers Matter" - only if you're giving them money.
You you have the 6S or 8S version?
He has 6s version
@@sendit_rc ok thx
I know there gonna be an 80mm/90mm Chinese J10 coming this year.
Really now?
Most likely yes, maybe FMS will have an 80mm version first and Freewing will have a 90mm version later@@TwoBrosRC
I've seen RC Castle online during searches for planes, and while they do sometimes have Planes in stock when other places don't , every plane I got shipping quotes for was around $200 to Michigan....Thanks, But No Thanks!
You have to keep in mind that the prices you're seeing are usually significantly less than what you see on the US retailer's site. Shipping is more expensive, but the US retailer bakes that price into the cost of the aircraft. If you want it in a reasonable timeframe (because their "free shipping" gets sent out whenever they feel like sending it), you have to pay for expedited shipping - which is usually about $50. The total cost comes within $100 of RC Castle in most cases, and their customer support is significantly less likely to tell you to pound sand.
Those in the US, get the so-called "free shipping". I say "so-called" because you actually think the shipping isn't already built into the product price? I have to have my stuff shipped cross border when I buy from Motion (and I have bought many from Motion in the past). My latest purchase was the Cougar. Not only am I paying the same "free shipping" price as US customers but I also must pay for added shipping to me. When the final calculation comes in (currency, shipping, customs, brokerage, taxes, etc), I paid nearly $100.00 LESS from RC Castle. It may be a "no brainer" for you in the US to buy from Motion but it's also a no brainer for many to buy from RC Castle.
@@TwoBrosRC I just ordered a pair of new 2150kv fans and 100amp ESCs for my freewing F-14 from rc castle based on the recommendation. I'm in no hurry to get them, but the clock is ticking 😀
6s or 8s?
6 for power and wing loading.
Not to extend the whole MRC debate but is it possible to even get Horizon Hobbies to respond to you if you are not a youtube influencer? I ask as I have had a request in to HH for customer service for over 10 business days now and no response due to the system upgrade. Looking on RC groups that upgrade started sometime in July; is there a trick to getting customer service at Horizon Hobbies and it's affiliates?
HH was responsive to us long before we did anything notable on RUclips. The system upgrade appears to be the culprit here, not HH itself as a systemic issue. We'd recommend reaching out to them again via email or via the chat bot on the site.
@@TwoBrosRC Lol, I agree that they were responsive but not anymore. Believe me when I say that I have tried several chats, emailed support and sales directly, and nothing. Worst part about this is it's a sales question, I am actually trying to buy a product from them. As to the failed system upgrade (it's safe to say this as anything that takes over a month to do is in itself a failure), they seriously should consider firing the IT consultants and hire someone competent.
What specifically are you trying to buy?
@@TwoBrosRC an arf plane, my question is around the use of gift cards and is something that thier customer service needs to answer. As a result I have been unable to complete my transaction, hence the frustrations. It's disappointing as HH used to be very customer friendly and sadly I don't get the feeling that they care anymore
They definitely care, but they're probably backlogged. We're sure there's an explanation, though it might not be one you're happy with. We pinged our HH rep to see if the keywords of "ARF" and "gift card" can be used by their support lead to find the ticket you've sent in and work with you. Assuming you sent in a ticket via email?
I'm too scared to buy from Motion RC as way too many complaints about customer service make me look to Horizon Hobby to buy an E-Flight or Hobby Zone product. Oh well...... hopefully sooner rather than later they'll hire a new VP of Customer Service and change the culture of that department. That'll lead to higher revenue......... if they're reading this I'll send you all my resume....;)
I've bought 6 edf jets from Motion RC in the past. Never had an issue with them. I don't doubt they have had issues in the past, but the complainers tend to be the loudest.
I've liked my Freewing planes better than my FMS/Horizon planes, but I also service all of my own avionics so I haven't really had to deal much with Motion's customer support.
None of the manufacturers are perfect by any means, but Motion RCs customer service is top notch crappy.
That's why only 3/50+ planes have come from them. With 2 of those 3, I had issues (QC, missing parts, wonky ESC, smudgy paint, crap manual, etc.). Motion RC customer service did nothing.
On a separate note, I contacted them over 6 months ago about Bancroft Mad Flow flex shafts. Was told they would be back in stock within a month. 5 months later...still out of stock. Hobbyking style.
Yeah - thanks but no thanks!
Ummm it’s got a small downfall, the top cheater holes are square and in the top beam which causes an extreme weakness in the almost mid position. It could probably do with full length carbon
That isn't really a downfall. It's a jet, not a monster truck. It has to be landed gracefully else it'll potentially suffer structural issues. It's like saying "Getting hit in the head by a crowbar means your skull has an extreme weakness" - your head wasn't designed to take crowbar impacts. ;)
Seems like a rebuttal to a popular channels take on jets😂
did he say arse?
Did you say arse?
Mine cost $700+ lol. Europe and 8S...
Definitely consider going down to 6 - it has more than enough thrust and it'll fly better without the extra wing loading.
I 100% agree that MOTION SUCKS. They shipped me an F-4 with a bad elev servo and it was pure insulting agony to deal with them. Ditto my buddy who’s F-4 came count of the box with an obviously defective wing.
How long ago was this? They said they'd be improving customer service going forward after a chat we had with their CEO late last year.
@@TwoBrosRC Last summer in the Aug-Sep time frame. I’d ordered 5 EDFs from them (north of $2500 worth, closer to $3k) and they acted like I was trying to scam them out of a single crappy servo. Tried to tell me that a jittering and unflyable elev servo was somehow “normal”. My buddy’s F-4 right wing was completely and severely popcorned right out of the box, completely destroying its aerodynamics. Between us he and I had owned 30+ foamies and never seen anything like this at any time on any plane or any age. Still, they insisted repeatedly that it was “normal” and that the distorted wing would fly just fine. It didn’t. We nearly lost it on the maiden while he focused 100% on flying while I reached over his shoulder to dial in full aileron trim to compensate for the one wing that didn’t want to fly. Even then -and only after threats to report their crappy quality and customer service in various forums- they would only send a raw wing (no components) to replace his defective PNP wing, forcing him to transfer gear and servos on his own.
Always thought the dude flying on beach was taking a huge risk… lol 10lbs planes doing 80-100+ mph around people is not smart..
No u
Avanti S Ver.2 is way better overall.
At being a sport jet, sure. At being a scale fighter jet, not even remotely.
This, of course depends on what you like and don't like and what kind of flying you like to do. I agree that the Eurofighter is a really fine RC airplane (mine is 8s) and flying off lumpy, bumpy grass, I've never had problems with the landing gear at all - yet. I've also had the Avanti S, V1 and just imagining what the V2 would be like, when comparing it to the EuroF., I agree that it may be better overall, HOWEVER, as long as we're doing the comparison game, I would also add that my Stinger 90 and my Eflite Viper 90 is better than all of the mentioned planes, even the Avanti S V1 and the new Cougar. It is highly unlikely that I would ever sell the EuroF. or the Stinger 90, yet I can see the Cougar getting dumped one day. But to re-iterate, that's a personal and individualized opinion. It's kinda like asking, "Which do you think is better? White or black socks?"
@@TwoBrosRC Your video title says best jet not best fighter jet. Your now shifting the goal posts..
You're being super pedantic. Regardless, this is our video and our criteria.
@@TwoBrosRC Sure, I'm not trying to stop you in any way, say and do as you please. I was just pointing out a fact.
The guy in ca is probably not a Karen. Keep it chill buddy.
What's this even supposed to mean?
Chill? Karen wasn't even brought into the equation. Safety was. The question would be, if CA beach flyer was to fly a 90mph Jet into a person with a pointed Styrofoam nose, what kind of harm or death(s) could result? I don't a lot about Rc flying but I know enough that if an object flying at high speeds makes contact with a human face chances of serious harm or death is got to be exceptionally high!!!
Wouldn't you agree?
@@marcymcsheehan3579 HE HAS! It's only by the shearest of circumstances that he hasn't impailed anyone. And he's dumb enough to document them all with posted videos. That would be "exhibit A, B, C, D ..........." when he ends up in court one day. It's going to be an ambulance chasing lawyer's field day.
@@jojoma4025 curious what the statistical risks of crashing an rc plane on a crowded beach with fatalities or injuries is.
Please share
>I seem to recall a video wherein the host of this channel is at an actual RC meet and nearly flies a plane into people standing nearby. He actually came closer to hitting people than anything this beach guy has.
The difference (and it's a really big difference) is that the crash you're referencing happened at an event for RC airplanes. People who come to events like that tend to accept the risk of being there around flying machines. People don't go to a public beach expecting someone to fly a 100+ MPH jet around them that weighs over 10 pounds.
The kind of flying this guy regularly engages in is the kind of flying that puts the hobby in an extremely negative spotlight. If we can't police ourselves, the FAA will be more than happy to do it for us.
That jet has been around for at least 15 years old
That isn't accurate at all. This is an entirely new design and is not the V2 jet.
@@TwoBrosRC Agreed! This current Eurofighter is NOTHING like the predecessor. "I've had 2 of those." It's like saying the "New Beetle" has been around since the days of Hitler.