How to Lay Tile Over Plywood
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2016
- www.ronhazelton.com/
Laying tile over a plywood subfloor can be tricky, but if you prepare the sub floor properly, your tile floor will last for a lifetime. Learn more: bit.ly/2dVbNj2
With over 500 hundred free DIY ideas, tips, how-to's, suggestions, and video tutorials available to help you turn your home improvement plans into finished projects. With more projects being added every month this is the go-to place for Do-It-Yourselfers & professionals alike.
Follow Us On Twitter: / ronhazelton
Like Us On Facebook: / ronhazeltonhousecalls
Follow Us On Google+: plus.google.com/u/1/b/1065954...
View Our Pinterest: / ronhazelton
Don't Forget To Subscribe: / @ronhazelton
Transcript:
When it comes to setting tile over plywood floors, there's no one who knows how better than master tile setter, Armen Tavey. In fact, he's invented a patented method and material that virtually guarantees professional quality results. However, as Armen points out, it's what's under the tile that makes all the difference between a tile job destined for failure and one that's guaranteed to hold up for the life of your home. That's especially true when the tile is being laid over a plywood subfloor.
Before laying tile over any plywood subfloor, it's important to make sure that the floor itself is free from excessive deflection or bending, which can pop grout joints and loosen or crack tiles. A glass of water can detect deflection that's otherwise hard to see with your eye. A single sheet of three quarter inch plywood is normally not adequate as a substrate for tile. The tile industry recommends a subfloor that's at least an inch and a quarter thick. In this case we're going to add a second sheet of three quarter inch exterior grade plywood. The plywood seams where the sheets meet should be offset from each other. This provides added strength and minimizes flexing at the joints.
Another way to reduce deflection is with proper nailing. Use a chalk line to mark out a grid. Underlayment should be nailed or screwed every eight inches in the field and every six inches around the perimeter. The nails themselves should be long enough to pass through both layers of underlayment. Be sure to drive all nail heads, flush with or below the surface with an extra hammer blow and leave one sixteenth inch gap between sheets to allow for expansion. Now this may look like overkill, but a properly installed subfloor is an important key to a trouble free tiling job. Laying out a tile job can mean literally that, actually laying out the tile across the room in both directions, using spaces for the grout joints. What you want to avoid are narrow slivers of tile around the edge of the room or tiles of differing widths on one side of the room versus the other. Slide tiles back and forth until you end up with edge tiles that are an attractive size and equal in width. The tiles that go around the perimeter of the room can be cut to width using a manual scoring type tile cutter. A carbide wheel scores the surface, then a bar exerts pressure on both sides of the cut, cleanly snapping the tile along the line.
With the layout complete, it's now time to begin preparing the surface for tiling, using Armen Tavey's thin skin system. First, he applies a code of adhesive to the subfloor, using a straight trowel. Then he lays fiberglass reinforced paper mats, he calls them thin skin, on top of the adhesive. Finally, he presses the paper into contact using a wide putty or joint knife. Next, he mixes, then applies a thin skin coat of mortar that conditions the paper. Once again, he uses a straight edge trowel to spread the material. The mortar, in effect, acts as a sort of primer on the paper, creating a cement surface to which the tile will bond perfectly. Using a knots trowel Armen now applies a coat of thin set tile mortar. Notice how he holds the trial at a 45 to 60 degree angle, allowing the notches on the trowel edge to create uniform rows or ridges. This ensures that the mortar is laid down evenly and at the proper thickness so that the entire back of the tile will be in contact with the material. Now it's time to set some tile!
Watch the technique. I set the tile, drop it down, I'm going to push it forward about a quarter of an inch to three eighths of an inch. What does this do? It takes the high ridges and drops them down into the low ridges or no ridges, pull it back. What I've done is I've transferred mortar to the back of the tile, more than likely one hundred percent.
. 
Хобби
I feel like I'm watching Tool Time or Bob Vila lol. Awesome video!
LOL, the tile experts who have probably never laid a single tile are out in full force.
Thanks for the nice instructional video. Cant wait to tear up there tiles and lay new ones!
A very good and brilliant technique of installing the tile by moving it in all direction, I respect you for that
Less than half inch thick plus the small matter of one and a half inch thick board. Vinyl flooring suddenly seems so much more attractive.
Lol I agree my upstairs at home has 3/4” subfloors, if I had to add another 3/4” plus the 1/2” for the tile stuff, no thank you, I’ll stick with carpet and vinyl flooring.
You lot can bugger off!
@@serkaherfain4727 LOL thanks!
assuming the subfloor is thick enough you could just use a primer on the subfloor first and then use a polymer modified thinset and do it. Least that is what Mapei told me. Primer T on the wood, uncoupling membrane thinset with the liquid polymer instead of water.
Although this was published in 2016 I'm sure this is an old school video from at least 20 years ago, nobody would do it this way now with all of the modern materials available
Would this method still work? Like as good as newer ones?
@@Stargate-over-starwars No, never install tile directly over a wood subfloor. Either cement board or an uncoupling membrane needs to be installed for a durable bond.
@@Heb101922 Of course you are fine about that this is the best way for to do this job.
Nice work especially when you need to know. Some people cut corners to save time and money. Or they simply don't know.👍
I’ll never get these 8 minutes back
Very simple😃
This is actually a really good vid
Fantastic - thank you so very much!!
Thanks for the idea
From little india
@Herman Tornes wtf
If you want to match floor height with adjacent floors go underneath and add more beam support under the floor joists. otherwise you have to use a wedge threshold transition to the adjacent floor.
Use hardy back and don't do all the drama
@@wayneburton6191 I think this is about vertical flex issues not horizontal expansion.
Very nicely done video!! After all this I think I'll go with vinyl now, lol!
1 1/4 sub-floor!!!! wtf....gonna have to raise the ceiling
or use thinner ceiling gypsum board?
I like this video, which might solve our problem how to install the tile on the plywood subfloor. We've been using hardyboard subfloor for years. This is great. Ron, can you tell me what adhesive, conditioner, reinforcement paper, thinset system, etc mentioned in this video. I didn't catch these information. I want to try your solutions. Thank you.
Awesome... Thanks for sharing...
I agree that thick plywood is needed. But once this is achieved, a better method to prepare the plywood is to coat it with a thick coating of marine quality two-part epoxy rolled and brushed on. When it is still wet, sprinkle dry fine sand (not fine and coarse mixed, but fine only) generously all over the epoxy. Cover it thoroughly deeper than needed. Then let cure completely dry. When dry, carefully sweep the excess sand off and then vacuum the surface to get the fine residue off using a brush attachment on the vacuum. You are now ready for mortar. The surface is waterproof, and like sandstone ready for perfect mortar adhesion.
In my opinion and I was a tiler for over 26 years always use screws NOT NAILS. If you notice on the video at about 1:47 as he hits the last nail the one next to it pops up. But that's just my opinion.
What mortar and thinset are the best application for a lifelong solution for wood substrate?
This is an old school method that is still up to code in some situations but as tike installer with 22 years experience, I have never laid a tile floor over plywood. I have run into installs over plywood and each one was being tore out because of cracking everytime
@Carolyn durarock or hardybacker to lay over the plywood....would depend on your budget.
but what did they do before all these products existed? I mean I see old houses with old tile work and it still is perfect.
@@Bigbacon From what I've seen, they usually would just use a lot of mortar and/or concrete under the tiles in old houses.
My house was built in 1950 original wood flooring. I don't know if I should just tile over it or keep and seal and what else . I'm 🤦🏽♂️???
@@dynoesauranything timber is a nono with tiles. Just don't do it, timber expands and contracts, it absorbs moisture, it rots, it is a soft material that absorbs impact and pushes back, cracking the tiles and grout joints.
I work on hardwood floor but I suscribe to your channel
7:22 this man bout to do a magic trick
Nah its the Shamwow guy at age 70
he used to be a pimp in broolyn, then opened a pizza shop. too many "ex clients" noticed him so he closed that down and got into the tile biz and instant success! he now has several patents but ex clients tracked him down and accused him or putting benadryl in their drinks when they were young...
Can this tiling work can be done on Wooden Plywood which is Vertical and standing Independently? Will the Plywood Hold the Stone Interlocking Tiles .
Nice job
Ron Hazelton. Hi very informative demonstration, thanks for sharing. Can this flooring, with furnishing such as beds, sofas, closets etc also serve and "hold up" as a ceiling for a lower floor or will the pressure be too great and cause the floor/ceiling to crack?
When you raise the level of the floor with more plywood you might want to ensure that you can still put your appliances back in place without running into uneven countertop surfaces.
32 + years ago, I was sick of replacing cigarette burned and wrecked carpet in my rental properties
I decided to go with tiles, in between people moving in and out
I just screwed another sheet of plywood running the opposite way screwed every 6 inches
And just put the thin-set right over the plywood and put the tiles down
I used epoxy grout
I also did the same for around the tubs and the counter tops
All that tile is perfect and crack free, to this day
I am retired now, and live off the income from those few rental properties
Same here, I only used 1/4 inch Luan boards and like new 25 years later. I think their is so much over kill today.
I like how he use his "Tile puck" I use my float/and level to slide back and forth, same results...
Thank you this helps.could you give me the name of the topping and what did you put in the tile , the markers I think??
Sir what kind of paper u used for tile setting and why.tnx for the answer
interesting methods there wario.
Tile Fixer I really just bol 😂😂😂
lulz! I was hoping he'd check for leveling with a go kart. or, wipe down with a banana peel
@@scottt89 XD
its very easy on the table
Hi, which glue you are using above the board?
Is this still the right way to do tile on the plywood nowadays in the year of 2021? It’s because I’m about to do my mom’s tile and it’s my first time doing tile and with the existing materials that we have nowadays is it still possible to do it this way
Very nice👍😄
If this dudes a master then I am a god legend.
Thanks!
can you send this guy over to my place! he can do all three of my bathrooms :D
make sure your girl is not in the dwelling at time of install. he will be sure to make a patent
This good for bathrooms too?
@ 5:30 wario gets on stage and warms up for a game of dance dance revolution Mario mix.
cement boards will make life so much easier.... just saying
hardie backer these days. easier to use and lighter
Why double to cost of your installation with no added benefit?
Who uses hardy boards on the floor lol?! You must have money to burn!
They're for bad walls and boxing in. Anything else is a waste.
Your so right
Why didn’t you just lay half inch wonder board?
Hey, where do I get the thin skin sheet??
is marine ply the best alternative?
where was this video made??? def isn't florida
Thanks
Where can I find the product showed in this video? We're laying tile over plywood, but anything else from the sound of it.
Can you directly apply mud to the plywood ?
If you've never heard of Ron Hazelton, you've most likely been stuck under subfloors! LOL. TS
How about never install tile directly over ply. You have too use something between the ply and tile whether it be backer,hardi or ditra. I own a tile company and every job that I have had to redo that was flooring was either laid directly to the plywood or the installer used the wrong thinset. Guaranteed cracked tile in 2 to 4 years if laid directly to ply. There are so many videos like this out there that are wrong. I will be putting videos out soon please check them out and let me know if you have any questions
Brandon Parrish don't have a lot of money what way would you recommend putting tile on a plywood floor
@@michaelcamp3336 save up some more money and do it correctly. If you go straight over plywood youre going to experience problems sooner rather than later. Like this man says....do it right and you wont have any worried down the road and no pricey repair bills
Still waiting for a video to show how to do it right...
That's because you get all these so-called experts, tile shop owners, experts this, expert that, yet they never show a better way or provide anything useful.
22 years in the business, and I can assure you what he said is true. Idk know this man, or the statice on the video he mentioned. But tilling over a plywood subfloor with no backer board between the tile and wood will fail. I will not even accept a job if the customer insist on not using a backer board over the wood, simply because it just doesn't hold up and I will not put my name on it. There are many false statements out there such as, "if there is 2 layers of 3/4 plywood then it ok to tile without a backer board". False! If a video is what you want to explain a step by step process of installation, then just simply enter it into the search bar. I hate to think you've waited this long (which I don't believe you have) for this one guy to produce a video when RUclips literally has 1000s of others. And they will direct you in the right direction and teach you all the proper procedures. But understand this, this man owes you nothing, even if he said he would make a video and didn't do so then it's just bad wording on his part. But for people to come to RUclips and expect installers to just make videos and give up trade information for free is just lazy on your part. Do some work for yourself, Google a few things, watch the videos that have advertisements which pay the installers for their time to teach you. Or even donate to a patron account. But if you haven't spent a dime to learn anything then don't complain. People like me and this guy didn't spend 20 plus years learning a trade so someone can sit back and watch our methods for free. Be willing to invest a little in you project. If all you want is easy solution tips, cheap materials, and quick results then be willing to accept the hack job you end up with.
Sometimes the framing isn't perfectly level so leveling could potentially be an issue.
@RealEstateInsider247 You level them with the thin-set
Is the "thin skin?" just paper? Does it have brand name? can you get it at Home Depot?
Nice
Instead of the fiber "paper", use the Schluter Ditra underlayment system for uncoupling.
"The dance of the tile fairies"....hehehe
Your video is well educated.
These stupid idiots talking about not putting thin set over plywood.
They are not paying attention to your procedure. They don't have a darn clue of understanding.
This is the reason you went through all those steps.
On the other hand, it "is" a lot simpler to use backer board. You save money and time.
Still a very nice educational video.
Always use screws.... never nails
this job will fail lol
Published possibly in the early 90's
Basically making cement board 👍( homemade cement board 😋 twice the cost)
Easy on a table, but en reality is another history
So you are looking for more strength yet you use nails that will pull out and cause squeaking. Screws are always the better choice over nails in every application they can be used in.
Never use ROOFING Nails for sub Flooring, use Ring shank or Screws (drywall screws will not back out or squeak over time) this video is a terrible excuse of installation.
drywall screws will rust , use something that is treated to resist moisture
@@markme4 rust? Only if your tiler is a useless oaf.
And who cares if they rust? They aren't going anywhere for the duration the floor will be there.
@@ssss-df5qz What does the installer have to do with nails rusting ?
@@walterdiaz2003 That will work , they do also make screws specifically designed for backerboard.
Back in the day we used what's called a story pole, that way you didn't have to fuge tile around all was there on your story pole.
them nails could have been with being a bit longer to go into beam
Would PermaBase to be simpler?
Ron Hazelton - So here's a question for you: I have a friend who asked about laying tile in her upstairs guest bath, replacing the linoleum. The carpet has a standard metal transition piece to the linoleum. If I do what this video recommends, by adding a 3/8" ply piece to the floor, plus the 3/8" mortar bed, plus the tile, it will put it well above the level of the carpet coming into the bathroom, thus creating a tripping hazard, or at the very least, a noticeable step up, that I don't believe any transition piece on the market will take care of. Just curious how to go from a floor that's currently level (or pretty darn close) with the carpet to adding 1" of overall material and make it so no one takes a spill going into the bath. Thoughts?
The
thas why you use shims under carpet pad. mortar bed is only 1/8 thick
magic buddy
L P shims are rubber 12 inches x 48 inches
12 inches wide x 48 inches long you can add,cut,stack. atach them with nail,screw, glue, depending over what you're installing carpet
Wow, this guy invented hydroban and waterproof felt.
What's the specific name of white paper? And the color blue you apply first in the plywood?
You can find all products at tools4flooring. I think it's a great idea compared to the Schluter system which is pretty pricy.
You would be a good pastor
How to lay tile on top of stamp concrete
This men love fiber glass paper
would you please let me know what kind of material I need to place tile on plywood?, thanks
Dont.. use cement board durarock under the tile over the wood.. unless you want it to crack and come up
I used cement board under my tile 14 years ago and its holding up just fine
Chris Sproles - Ok, so what would you use? Please identify the layers. I’m caught between a tile outdoor deck or treated pine. They have no hardwoods where I live.
so wait, leave a 16th of an inch for expansion!?!?......but the whole idea of 2 layers of plywood, thin set, fiberglass sheets was supposed to keep flexing below the tile bed to avoid cracking tile or grout or both
nails to secure a subfloor doesn't seem like the best idea. Remember that nails are best in shear, while screws are best in tension. Subfloors are a tension application, and therefore screws are best
I wondered that too as I watched 01:34 ... That nail is barely going into the second board. Recipe for squeaks and jumpy floors later.
@@kevinm8865 No it goes all the way through the second board. There are two layers of plywood and then the studs, but the objective is not tension with the studs, because he nails the two layers together even where there is no stud. I think it's about sheer force. Preventing the layers from sheer movement will increase stiffness.
You look like the guy who have the pic in the spacers bag lol
All I do is this floor joice/ 3/4 ply/ 1/2 ply/cement board/ditra on top for uncoupling skim with self leveling/3/4 deck mud bed /hydro ban over that spread hot Cheeto crumbs ..solid
My first day on the internet
Gump you're a gifted genius!!
Hot Cheetos crumbs, outstanding!
Whats the first 3 letters n contractor?
Why would you put a second layer of plywood down instead of using tile backer?
because the durock is not rigid enough. the 3/4 plywood alone was by far not rigid enough alone by itself
I’m what about the nails wouldn’t it come up , wouldn’t screws work better. The house we bought used nails they are coming up slowly but eventually.
Yes. 2 1/2” screws and glue between plywood layers is the way to go.
Fantástico 🇧🇷
I've always heard and put the liquid in first, then put the thin set set in to mix it.
dave12546 in large quantities yea that's to prevent air pockets and clumps but he used so little it didn't really matter
Read and follow manufacturers dierctions.
vinyl will make a come back in a couple of years.
K. lamar eye v hahahahahahahahahahahahaha yeah it already has. builders get asked to use it instead because its cheap. then they get in, and demo it out and either install there own floors, or pay someone else, that is still half price. vinyl is what it is, cheap, fast, and shit.
It already is
Wood "look" vinyl planks are trending .
I hope I miss doing vinyl
A) If you're gonna install over plywood, use "ring" nails, not roofing nails. B) Plywood is porous and will suck all the moisture out of the thinset before it does it's job and will lead to cracked tiles. C) Grout is very porous and will soak up any water (snow or rain or dog pee) and leach to the plywood and rot it and develop mold. Go with a proper underlayment and save the nightmares for the movies.
Good point about moisture leaching through .
I cringed when I saw the length and type of nail going in. I would only use steel screws.
How much it cost to hire someone to do the tile?
What are the standards for laying tile over an OSB subfloor?
I was told to not use OSB where they will be water. you know the kitchen ...
Simple answer...
"what are the standards for laying tile over an OSB subfloor?" "SUB - standard".
JUST DON'T DO IT.
I asked this question five years ago when I was inexperienced. Where I am located, most all subfloors are 3/4” OSB T&G and not plywood. I’ve now learned that a backerboard suitable for floor, steel lath, or a schluter ditra can be used.
I use liquid nail....screws and nails for floor...
yep,I see all you guys catching the nailing..roofing nails...totally wrong.......and yea, another guy said why use ply over ply.. i like crete board over ply but what I prefer is to thinset the wonder board to the ply- not just screw it- that way, you bond the two surfaces into a monolithic slab..anyway, interesting stuff!
Customers then come in to my store and ask "why my tile breaking?"..turns out it's plywood underneath. No thanks. Do it the right way. Spend the extra cash to protect your investment.
Outkast I had a bathroom tiled on plywood in christchurch. Had 10000 quakes and house sank and 25 tonnes of liquefaction came up on property. 400 grand of damage and not one cracked tile or grout in two renovated bathrooms. Was thick plywood though.
Thats tavy the guy that made all the tools we work with he's Renown in the tile world. buy firming up your subfloor there's no deflection giving it a proper surface to adhere to which is the thin skin adhesive or you can go Eco Prime same method shouldn't have a problem
Our whole house has just one layer or that plywood. We got thinset and durock and moter to go on top of the durock under the tile. Are we going to have problem. We havent started yet. But all the walls are up
Okay... so what do you use? I have plywood... and I'd like tile... is it a no-go?
@@javasearcy890
Java, it is 10 months later.. How is it holding up???
You know, this guy may very well be a master mechanic and a legend in the tile world (although I never heard of him) but if I've learned one thing in 34 years of the tile business it's that I would not lay tile directly to plywood and I certainly wouldn't guarantee it. But it did occur to me that this man didn't lay it directly to the wood either. He put a coat of glue, a layer of some kind of special paper, a skim coat of mud, all of this on a second layer of plywood. Seems like a gimmick to sell special paper and whatever kind of glue that was, if you ask me. I think I'll just stick with durock(NOT HARDI-BOARD).
No screws no Hardy board just papper?hum yah I would not recommend anyone that is starting out on tile. Not to do it this way. if you do it this way your tile will start cracking after some time.
what about if your tileing a wall
hello, what is a color grout?
Umm, grout comes in all kinds of color. You can mix match with the tile.
Id definitely use ditra over that plywood first
TEACHER WHAT KIND OF PAPER DO YOU PUT FIRST ?
Armen frm armainea I thk I wrkd with u
This is what I have now. The old tiles were installed on two layers of plywood. It is impossible to remove that extra layer of plywood because there are thousands of screws on it. If I add another layer of Schluter system on it, it will be 1 inch higher than my hardwood floor. I am totally screwed...☹☹
My hubby had tile laid down in a large den-I wasn't available for this. The jerks who did it just laid it directly on concrete after they had taken up some really nice and new berber carpet, which I preferred. Nevertheless, the jerks that did the application did not level anything and did not seal any grout. I can tell what is not done right, not only because it breaks the tile(!!) but the one's unloved sound hollow underneath. A mess! And not sealing th grout-yikes. There is grout with sealant in it but they didn't do that, either. He had them do a lot of different jobs inside and out-they were all done wrong! Ladies, check these things out and make yourself available! I knew more about it than dear hubby and would not have made the same choices. He was too trusting. Bad people, bad!
1) Nails will eventually pop out, so I recommend to use screws. (old house floors squeak because of this).
2) Now it's better to use a membrane like the Schulter Ditra instead of applying ceramic over plywood.
Nothing wrong with his method except the nails..... other than that the layer of thinset with fiberglass sheet over thin top layer is an old school method that proves solid...my father used this method almost 40 years ago on my cousins bathrooms, and still solid...
I agree its overkill. So many things wrong with this method I dont' know where to start.