Wartime Changes: The Bren MkI Modified and Bren MkII
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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The British lost some 90% of their stock of Bren light machine guns in the disastrous Dunkirk evacuation, and in the following months rushed to rearm. Part of this program was a two-tiered simplification of the Bren design. First was a MkI Modified Bren (which was not marked any differently than the original MkI), and this was followed by a MkII design. These patterns simplified many of the machining operation required to produce the Bren, significantly reducing the number of required machining operations. The most visually distinctive elements of the MkII pattern were the omission of the stainless steel flash hider assembly and the replacement of the original dial rear sight with a simple ladder sight. In addition, changes were made to the buttstock, buttplate, receiver profile, gas block, and bipod. Both Enfield and Inglis would produce the simpler MkII Brens by the middle of the war. Despite the many changes made, the core operating components (bolt, bolt carrier, etc) were left unchanged, so they could still interchange between all patterns of the gun in service.
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“Forest of Bren guns” is a famous location in Elbonia, a real tourist trap though.
Especially the centrally located and over priced Elbonian Cuisine Cafe at the top of Mount Barrel Shroud.
You mean The Doublefeed? It's a nice place. I'm a little surprised that you are being like this about it.
@@philips.5563 Yeah, I stopped off there once, when I was off to hunt bison past Bayonet Mount...
Armalite has one that's similar, but they call it "Stoner Henge."
Is that in the county of Moardakka?
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OK, I'll fetch my coat!
Even though all the external parts on the mk2 look different to the mk1 they are still all interchangeable with the mk1,s parts, you see some very mongrel guns knocking about mixing all of the versions. 🙂
It's stated in the official 'list of changes' notifications for the introduction of the Mk.2 that guns could and probably would be assembled from Mk.1 and Mk.2 sub-assemblies as production was coming on line, so the Army shouldn't worry if they start receiving guns with mixed mark components.
Here’s a shout-out for parts interchangeability!
Next Generation Of Bren Gun!
7.62 x59 Bren was megga gun
Ian, have you ever thought of making a video on predictions of future warfare? Tactics, Strategy, logistics, production and so on.
"Forest of Bren guns." That's a good problem to have.
And the smile on his face.👍
Not a good problem if you’re a German in the early 40’s
Well not if you're a German Panzergrenadier making a stroll
@@seppesneyers3592 the only good panzergrenadier is a dead one
Brother I don't think I'd call that so much of a poblem.
I've watched 'Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels' yesterday.
"What the fuck's that?"
"It's me Bren gun!"
Edit: I just checked, it has a drum sight. So it's either a MkI or a MkI Modified.
Now that's a brilliant movie.
it appears to have the complicated fluting below the barrel, so it looks like it's the MkI original
@@ajaxribaldo bless the nerdology! And AFAIK, none of the post war upfettlements went back to the drum sight, so (if Ian agrees) it's pretty likely that drum sighted BRENs will be the first generation of the thing?
@@Simon_Nonymous I think the version we used in Australian Army Cadets in the late ‘60s was a hybrid of the mark 2, but retained the drum rear sight. Probably a variation done by locally based manufacturer Lithgow Arms.
''I think Ze British are in that forest...Wait hang on, those aren't trees.''
"V'ait... I s'ink ze British are z'ere in z'at forest... hang on... z'ose are nacht trees!"
Still funny, but I thought you could go a little further with it. Cheers, Danny!
I believe this same forest was instrumental in the defeat of the Roman occupiers. Brenadicea was the first to realize the potential of said forest. History-grafting is amazing fun.
Lets all take a second to appreciate the looks of the BREN..I mean it just looks right.
I agree! :) It looks very solid and dependable, but not too chunky
Looks heavy as fuuu.
Irrelevant question, but you aren't from Finnrand are you
@@LazyLifeIFreak 21 lbs loaded,,, Ihad to carry one a few times lol the L4A4 version that is
Not a fan of top mounted mags, but I have to agree
There's something about guns (and machines in general) going through simplification processes that is just so damn pleasing.
I know what you mean, mechanical evolution through necessity.
"Efficiency is beautiful, efficiency is art."
"A design is finished, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"
Like Ian stated before "The British did make last ditch rifles, they just made them all in 1941 not 1945"
In the morality of Pinochetian Minarchism violence is not wrong per se and neither is spending public money on it. However, wasting public money on it is. Public money can be spent but it must be spent wisely.
3:29 “You really don’t need that so [POP] that goes away”
Extremely satisfying pop.
For those who thought Ian said "lightning" cut (I'm not a machinist or tradesman in any way so I'm stupid in that way), he actually said "lightening" cut, as in making the gun lighter in weight.
Americans abuse the language in that kind of way. Much like leaving out the u in colour and favour. Love them anyway. Even though they talk a bit strange. Still good blokes.
@@amorphoussolid8512 We're not abusing the language, we just don't want "u" in it so much.
English people complaining about Americans abusing the language are actually defending the french.. and that is historically ironic
@@sliceofbread2611 Right? I mean, what's their boeuf/problème anyway?
"Lightening" versus "lightning" isn't an American / English thing. They are just two different words. Many people had trouble understanding the distinction in "Project Lightening" that Ian did with C&Rsenal.
The other night I watched "Siege of Jadotville". This was an instance of Irish UN peacekeepers in the Congo in the early 60s. They stood off a force of around 3000 mercenaries and Congolese Katangan rebels or 5 days while equipped with mostly British small arms. Everything from Lee Engield MkIVs to L1A1s including Bren guns. The Irish unit was 125 men all of who survived.
My father was an Irish UN peacekeeper but served with the 34th Battalion. The Jadotville soldiers were the 35th Battalion. Dad was a Bren Gunner. They had their battles out there as well.
@@72mossy
Well at least the whole mission in the Congo was pretty clear cut case of greed on the part of the mining companies. Glad he got home safe. I firmly believe we need an organization such as the UN. But not necessarily this UN.
Yep he got home safe. Left the army but no jobs. Went working in England during the 60s. He's 81 now.
@@72mossy Cheers to your dad, people like him keep us save, I wish him many more years!
We used to use these as School Cadets in Australia, some of the high schools up until the mid 1980's used to have their own armoury with Brens, Lee Enfield. 303 rifles, occasionally Owen machine carbines, SLRs and Vickers medium machine guns.
Some of them still have .22 rifles these days.
How times have changed.😥🇦🇺
Back in Blighty we had school CCF (combined cadet force) units with roughly similar kit (except Sterlings instead of Owens). My school had Brens, No.4's and No.8's, plus some deactivated drill purpose No.1's. I never got to shoot a Bren though, because "security concerns" took away our functioning Brens and left us only with nonfireable sectioned training versions.
Don’t Australian schools need those to defend against the local wildlife though?
@@PitFriend1 remember the Emu wars were fought with Lewes guns and lost.
You must precede me by a lot bloke, i'm an 84 model from a rural town, thus a 303 LE was the coolest thing i wasn't allowed near.
Ian, since you're talking about Inglis Bren Guns, you might enjoy taking a side trip and look into Veronica Foster. Nicknamed "Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl", she was Canada's answer to "Rosie the Riveter". She assembled Brens at John Inglis during the war and was featured in tasteful photo stories (we're talking 1940s Canada here) depicting her life as a glamorous munitions worker, jitterbug dancer and homemaker.
I just woke up. It’s going to be a good day.
Was it a good day?
The first Carry On film (with William Hartnell, aka the first Doctor) has a great scene where a National Serviceman, after not listening to his DI is tasked to diss/reassemble a Bren. When asked how he managed to do that, he reveals that as a civvie, he works in a factory that makes them...
I remember - it was Bob Monkhouse in a relatively straight role as the romantic lead. The first Police Academy was almost a remake, with Steve Guttenburg as the same character.
From 30,000 Berns to 2,300 after Dunkirk makes you realise how badly Britain’s back was against the wall in late 1940. Churchill pulled off a miracle by continuing to resist the Nazis for the betterment of all humanity.
Ian will you be able to show your performance at Brutality?!
Both of those video post Saturday - my M39 run here on Forgotten Weapons, and my WWSD run on InRange.
@@ForgottenWeapons NICE
I was wondering the same thing. I'm glad someone else asked. Ian is great for responding to comments.
@@ForgottenWeapons thank you!
Why keep the enemy's head down (GPMG/Minimi) when you can blow it right off (BrEn)? A wonderful machine.
I think it's unfair I'm British and am not allowed a bren
*Behind forrest of Bren Guns*
"Don't Spandau me, bro" Lindybeige. probably
i hate that video so much haha
It’s not often one has the need for the collective noun for a Bren gun.
I’m not sure about ’forest’.
‘Nest’ is used for machine guns generally.
How about a ‘Chatter’ ?
Or if youre on the other end, a Hurt of Bren Guns.
I immediately thought of "A suppression of Brens" for a collective noun. I think I like Chatter better :)
A murder of bren guns? Like a murder of crows?
A battery of Brens?
More like a chunter than a chatter, perhaps.
A 'bevvy' of Bren Guns.
I used this as the British "LMG" (Light Machine Gun). Extremely accurate and easy to maintain and run. Loved the thing.
I own a deactivated mk2 inglis and its a beatiful gun. Suprisingly heavy so all credit to the chaps who used them and carried them around like they were nothing.
so jealous....
@SpyderyAxis88 Yup, that was me, yup she was heavy, and nope we never carried them "like it was nothing"...
But she was an absolute joy to shoot...
I own a deactivated 1943 Mk.1m that still has a removable barrel. It's a lovely piece
What about the 7.62 NATO conversion? There would have been changes to the magazine and barrel obviously. Perhaps other changes such as gas system? Sights?
Yup, Changes to barrel, magazine, guide ribs internally to position the rounds to breach, sights yes but only the calibrated markings, extractor, and ejector. As i recall, perhaps recoil springs. Cross out the old markings and add new designation. Duh, nearly forgot............new sling and a paint job.......bobs your uncle.
I have watched well over a hundred of Ian's videos and I need to say that I am not a major fan of guns in general, BUUUUT, the engineering nerd in me is just going biserk over these engineering feats and changes! Just incredible to the brains behind these modifications!!!
My great uncle was a Bren gunner and he was in the Dieppe landings, so I've always had an interest in this gun.
His story gets crazy because he was shot in the head during the war, and it was a German doctor who saved his life and he lived a full long life with a metal plate in his head until he passed in the 90s.
As much as I'd like to think I am equally invulnerable to gunfire, I doubt it's genetic.
What happend at Dunkirk was a dark time for the British ?
Arguably it wasn't that good for the rest of the world either....unless you're rooting for Getmany.
Yeah not too happy a day for the French either. Only time the French have ever been unhappy to see a British army driven out of France.
Dunkirk and the events leading to it were a disaster. Now, things could have gone a lot worse but the success was slightly reducing the damage done in the disaster.
@@misterthegeoff9767 I think France is included in " the rest of the world ".
It might be a surprising view, but the French didn't do too badly when faced with a highly professional German army.
The Germans were able to defeat every European army they faced....and for a year destroyed every Russian army they encountered.
Americans tend to forget that when they first encountered angry Germans in North Africa, the Germans went through them like a hot knife through butter.
These Germans were facing the best America had..and they fared little better than the British and French had in 1940.
But the Americans were fast learners.
But he's talking about Been guns, which only the British/Empire used.
@@ericgrace9995 Germany more or less already defeated at that point.
The french army was also highly more professional, and better equipped.
Had the british and French high command a spine, WW2 would have lasted a few month at best.
Instead, the moment the french were ready to retaliate and change their doctrine, the british decided to flee and make sure they had absolutely no chance what so ever.
In 1959 was made Brens mk. II for Italian police in .30-06 Springfield and it is slightly modified. It has longer piston, front grip is not soldered and metal plate on butstock has "wave" to better fit. Charging handle is not foldable, so it's more based on mk II than mk II/1
Again a great series and a great gun. Always gives me a smile when someone mentions the Bren, reminds me of the 1st Bren gun scene from "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels" . "What's that!" "That's me Bren gun!" And all hell breaks loose when he fires it. ruclips.net/video/4yQeyi2Fc40/видео.html Using a Mk1
i dont remember if you mentioned how many hours on each bren in the manufacturing they saved nor the cost of the mk1 to mk2
I got a deactivated BREN Enfield MK3 last week and interestingly it's dated 1957, seems weird they were making the MK3 as late as that instead of the L4 (7.62x51mm BREN)
Not weird, not all countries switched to 7.62 NATO. Many foreign contracts wanted .303 guns. Yes we had .303 guns to sell but we wanted to keep the industry going so offered new guns for foreign sales.
Hey, I just watched lock, stock and two smoking barrels last night.
"Its me bren gun?"
Holy crap, i think this is the first forgotten weapons video I've seen with ads in it as well as the pre-play ones.
4 mid roll ads
Notifications worked🥳🥳🥳
Used to Love shooting the bren, Very nice on the shoulder compared to Simerly chambered rifles. just a shame that some git from HQ found out we still had a live fireing Bren at my cadet branch and he swiped it.
Coffee with gunpowder and forgotten weapons videos= breakfast of champions and the gun Loving great people of our world! Thanks again ian
The Bren is a nice one 👌
Its kind of amazing how many machining operations went into making MGs back in the day, and they didnt even have CNC machines.
@@kenbrown2808 looking at supposedly middle trim "woods" modern rifle stock and souless plastic of modern military equipments , damn every enlightment on industrial things are taken every warmth in this world.
Watch out for the chick passed out on the couch. I know she tends to blend in, but she might be dangerous, if she gets her hands on one.
ruclips.net/video/ksMydLGN1oc/видео.html
Oh Ian. You naughty boy. I’m at work how could you possibly post such erotic content.
Honey why is there a bearded man filming himself with your guns?
I don't, he just appeared and started filming.
Ask him to leave or we will call the cops!
No dear, I think it's best to leave him alone and hopefully he will leave on his own.
IF a random RUclipsrs appear you're house a avoid eye contact and hide in areas of your house without Wi-Fi connection and pray that the will leave.
Too avoid random RUclipsrs appearing in your house, remember to close the valve on your internet pipe and see that it's not leaking.
I think this one likes a good scotch so he can't be all that bad, what!
Will Ian be entering the `Heavy Machine Gun on Tripod` Brutality match ;)
Necessity is the mother of simplification, especially when it comes to firearms.
During my military service (compulsory for everyone at the time), I fired with these two weapons.
They were good weapons at 300 meters (+/- 1000 feet) we obtained very good results even in automatic, all the ammunition fired in a square of 20 cm on the side (all in a square of two thirds of a foot).
The weapon's remote sighting system was a bit awkward at first.
The Australian made Bren was the MK1. It was made at Lithgow during WW2.
10 seconds in I've clicked like. Just for the sheer amount of Bren guns :D
Any chance on covering the L4 variant in the near future?
You’re content is terrific btw!
I love it when Ian “walks me through” firearms.
Dunkirk, Singapore, Battle of Britain, the first half of the war wasn't exactly ideal for the brits
As I understand it the famous "keep calm and carry on" poster was an unused one designed to be used during German occupation. We certainly had our backs against the wall for a while.
@@Govanmauler Indeed, thank god the invasion never came, and the Nova Scotians can build ships faster than wolfpacks can sink em
Anyway, they left the unreliable Bren to the Germans.
I had the pleasure of firing a Bren MkIII a few times, absolutely loved it, it was eventually replaced by the FN MAG, preferred the Bren to be honest!
I watch every video released. No matter the content, as along as it it history based. Another great watch. Keep the videos coming.
“Inglis” is a Scottish name. The proper pronunciation is “In-gals”. It derives from the medieval Scots for “English”
But not, perhaps, in Canadia
@@japhfo, great numbers of Scots migrated to Canada. I think it's likely it retained the same pronunciation.
Did you mean Scottish Gallic or Germanic Scots language ?
@@howdoyouturnthison7827 it’s Gaelic not Gallic and Scots is the languages spoken in the lowlands derived from old English. I’m guessing you aren’t from a Celtic country
@@johngamba4823 I'm Turkish, far from any Celtic presence but I can't see any relevance to my question.
Small correction, the Dunkirk evacuation wasn't one of the darkest moments of WWII for the UK, it was the brightest, it prevented an immediate invasion by Germany and gave the whole country hope.
Whoever owns the house that Ian is at in this series seems to have enough Brens and SMLEs to equip an entire rfile platoon.
An American at heart, apparently
@@asdasd-ty9se An American in mindset, sure. But surely a Brit at heart to possess that much of king and country's finest.
@@Reddsoldier it’s funny because we stole the concept of men (humans in general nowadays) having the right to possess weapons from the English
Wow Ian, way to alienate your navy viewers by not starting from tip to butt
Holy balls RUclips. 5 adds in a 12min video? I'm so glad most content creators are leaving this dump
Adblock. 👍
The forest of Bren guns is so long that we actually got Ian's family photos in the shot 😄
This all reminding me of the heist in Lock Stock ruclips.net/video/3FpO3_60GJo/видео.html
That’s a lot of heavy weaponry
I mean, how heavy can it be if you can still lift it?
@@LolTollhurst Well, in the past, gravity was apparently weaker. People carried 6-12kg of textbooks back and forth to school every day
Now, people carry 50-gram phones and 2kg computers and complain about the weight.
I got to fire a MK1 modified in the late 1980s. What fun!
I found the weapon to be really accurate, and you could put 2 or 3 round bursts down range with almost as effective accuracy as the Lee Enfield rifle it self (on standard leaf sight)
With those short bursts you could hit near centre on the targets with 1 or 2 rounds every time.
It was so consistent in accuracy, that when the butts staff made the mistake of pointing to where I had been hitting the target before I had actually finished one of the final burst of rounds hit the the triangle end of the pointer.
The most entertaining thing that day was when one of the instructors decided he would demonstrate firing the Bren from the hip.
The gun was fitted with a sling to hang from the shoulder and he folded out the carrying handle to the straight position.
Standing at the 100m range point he loaded a full mag and let rip, Rambo style!!
Unlike the movies he seemed to hit everything down range except the targets, the earth banks in front and behind the butts erupted with earth and dust flying everywhere. When the chaos stopped his face was a picture, and another officer on the range point was heard to comment "that's one way to dig the garden". Shortly after that the range radio crackled to life with much colourful language from the butts officer asking what was going on.
A day I will never forget.
I did appreciate the researched numbers of Mk 1 s after Dunkirk.
I too have seen a lot of part mixes but that's what wars can do.
Take Care and Be Safe, John
Was the Bren gun ever chambered for 7.62 anti?
Yes. Converted post war into the Bren L4.
Thanks to Ian for showing me all the shiny things I would otherwise never get to see! I'd love to spend a day at a range with a Bren but that is never gonna happen. This is the next best thing.
The bren/zb26 design is one of the most underrated LMGs
Long time since had my hands on one of those.
From Baroque to Art Nouveau...
the irish army reserve used the MK3 up until the late 80"s
...and beyond. It was still used it in the early 00's at least up to when the FCA became the RDF .
@@padmundo thanks. I lost track of the years. I’ve fond memories of the bren
Why “Mk I, modified” and not Mk I * ?
Because it wasn’t officially adopted?
The Canadian stuff was actually marked up as MK1m, the brit stuff was not. I am presuming they were too busy panicking to get more made to bother with the finer touches of the paperwork side of things. When you look at lots of the guns over time you find that between the MK1 and the Mk1 "modified" there are actually 7 variations as each of the savings in time were thought of and implemented in the factory.
The asterisk "*" simply denotes "Modified" on British equipment, and easier to print/ stamp than the full word. Not all equipment necessarily received an "*" stamping. The Mk.I * in this video does not have it, but my 1943 Enfield Bren Mk.I* does have the asterisk.
2 million subscribers
Where do you find these weapons?
Where is a you getting your subject information from ?
In the photo of me at Enfield is a 1941 Henry Faulkner.. BESAL..who was superintendent at BSA Small Heath..
eating pasta while watching..
Hey Ian, I was wondering if you've ever seen the game "Metro Exodus" or any other Metro games. They feature some pretty neat homemade weapons, including a toggle lock shotgun. Pretty crazy, I think it would be cool to see your thoughts on them. Have a good day!
I'm in heaven...!
My late father in law was trained on the Bren between coming back from Italy and going to Normandy. He said the men on his course were at the end of the training required to strip and reassemble the weapon blindfold in a certain time. He carried the Bren until they got to the Dutch border.
Thanks Ian, great video. Have you or are you doing something on the post-war 7.62mm of the conversion Bren gun?
Thanks for this an ALL your documentaries! I am not a gun collector, but your analysis gives me insight on the thinking of the the people and military of countries at the time.
I did know about the BREN history, but seeing your piece I now have MUCH more appreciation for the BREN!
Collective now for Bren guns?
Thanks Ian,
thanks to you, I just discovered that the Bren MK1 that I bought yesterday has an MK2 barrel, retype to the regimental case number...
Slightly a shame, because the rest of the gun is an MK1 from 1938, number A2418, one of the very first produced in Enfield...
I remain very proud of my purchase despite everything.
To clear up the comment on the bi-pod. Inglis used the Bipod Mk3 which Ian shows, they were used on all Inglis Mk2 guns. The bipod, Mk2 was only used on Monotype Mk2 manufactured guns.
The Barrel on the Bren Mk3 was the barrel MkIV.
You might be able to find Mk.3 at Rifle Factory, Ishapore.
Did the ladder sights share it's design and/or components with the sights on the Rifle No. 4?
Short answer is no, other than them both being ladder type rear sights.
Wait, does Ian have kids? Who’s kids are those guy I’ve never in 10 years seen those pictures
"So we might not have got all the brens back."
"No worries bound to mislay the odd gun. How many are missing."
"All of them."
"Well at least you got the tanks back"
"Oh that"
Its bren week
"Benign purposes" related to a firearms... Oh, Ian. Please don't ever change!
i think we can put the mk1 modified as Bren Mark I* since its basically what happened to SMLE No1 Mk III*
A forest of Bren guns. Nice.
Did they ever make a Bren gun for south paws? I tried shooting one when I was a cadet during my teens. I couldn't aim it with my weak right eye. This was the only SMG where I ever encountered that problem. It wasn't configured for the left shoulder.
A...'bevy'...of Bren guns? A...'murder' of Bren guns? What is the correct collective noun?
I think that the Mk2 it's the one that i'd seen the most; still looking good to me, but... if i had to walk most of the times instead move in a vehicle... idk how fan i would be.
My father, who used one in WW2, always insisted that the Bren was "too accurate". As a schoolboy shooting enthusiast this infuriated me. After a while I just ignored him on the subject.
Then you have the Australian Lithgow made Bren guns. All MK 1's though they had a MK 1 stock without the hump or flip out shoulder plate. They also often had the MK1 bipod without the extendable legs and a simplified receiver with only the one dovetail and a the simplified gas system. Lithgow never went to MK 2 production like the never moved from SMLE rifles to No 4 rifles.
They began production with 350 Double Dovetail guns, made at least one known intermediate gun and then had 2 production lines with different versions of the Mk1 modified known as Pattern A and Pattern B. They also made Mk2 butts and hardware and Mk3 Australian pattern bipeds
We used Mk3 Brens in the 80s (FCA. Ireland). We were told the gas regulator could be adjusted to the larger port to enable the use of .303 from the Lee Enfield No.4 which was our standard issue . The ammunition for the Bren had a different colour ring on the primer. I think the Bren was Red and the Enfield was Green. We were told that the Bren ammunition which was more powerful, would damage a Lee Enfield if fired from it.
When firing the Bren it was possible to get groupings similar to the Enfield when firing single shots.
"The miracle of Dunkirk" if you're British.
Not "disaster". That's defeatist! 🇬🇧 🚢 ⛵
The 303 Bren I used (1950s built) had both the extending bipod legs and the machined holes in the barrel grip/carrying handle. Cocking handle was folding. No rear sling swivel, instead the butt plate had a sling loop.
@@zoiders the memory of the weapon I used up to 2001 says otherwise. Unless the date was a random one stamped on the body for shits and giggles.
@@zoiders
I think even the Indians got rid of .303
@@zoiders I didn't live in India or the UK. My manual says we used mk1,2, and 3. I saw the earlier ones in stores but I used a mk3.
@@zoiders Ours even still had their packing boxes. I think they remained in service (with reserve infantry only - everyone else used the FN MAG) until around 2001. We used the No4 also up to the mid 1990s.
Mk3 Brens were made until 1961, the Irish Mk3s were mostly dated 1954, 55 and 56. The X10E1 program started in the late 50s with the first conversions being produced in 1958.
I like the way you did this comparison