Suppressors and SBRs should be removed from the NFA. There is absolutely no reason to regulate these items that do not make the gun more lethal than it already is. It’s an infringement and an unjust tax and hurdle to exercising your constitutional rights.
Since the new US military rifles are all coming with a suppressed barrel shorter than 16 inches, the NFA has never looked so unconstitutional. Keep in mind the original $200 tax stamp when the NFA was passed in 1934 is the equivalent of over $4,000 today. It's indefensible.
I live in New Jersey where suppressors are illegal. My wife's family is from Germany. She was born here. One of here German born cousins was visiting and he was a shooter. I asked if he wanted to go shooting with me he said yes. When I opened my gun cabinet to see what he wanted to shoot. He asked where my suppressors were. I said they were illegal. He explained that in Germany shooting with a suppressor was considered being a good neighbor. I said I knew.
I was very very happy that he mentioned caring about his dogs sensitive hearing. We gotta take care of our pooches. They are our first defense in terms of being excellent early detection methods. My dog will warn me of anyone around the house at all giving me time to get prepped real quick. She’s part of the family like my child.
I myself cannot stand any more hearing damage. Several years ago I took my grandson to an indoor range where we were the only shooters. As we were leaving I did not notice a new shooter enter. Just as I was entering the exit I began to remove my hearing protection and at that exact time the shooter fired a 357 magnum just to my right. I suffered permanent damage to my right ear. I also had a head cold which limited the pressure equalization in that ear. I love to shoot and easy and cheap access to silencers would be a blessing. Our lawmakers have watched too many movies where silencers are used and think we are assassins.
@@RayDoyouagree exactly. I just read an article today about hearing protection. It actually went into how you lose your hearing. Quite fascinating. (The tiny hairs in your cochlea die off... and do not regenerate. That's the short version.)
Interesting that the dogs hearing was brought up. It's one of the reasons that I do all of my target shooting with suppressors. The dogs are always with me at my property and I want to protect their hearing. If I am going to shoot unsuppressed, the dogs go into the truck with the windows rolled up and the AC on to protect them. I usually wear plugs and muffs.
What I do with my bird dog is I trained him to wear ear muffs on the shore and boat, with a lanyard tied to the band. After the shots and the command, he jumps in and leaves the muffs tied to a tree or the boat seat. With his ears flat under the muffs, he probably has about a 35 db reduction. It works BEAUTIFULLY!
Here in South Africa, just like magazines, suppressors are not regulated and you can walk into a gunshop anywhere and buy one over the counter. They are very popular and widely used for hunting here.
@@Strawman333 I have no idea what you are talking about , my point was that its your government that made that Con, its not a con of the actual suppressor.
It's even more maddening when you learn that countries in the Europe have an easier time getting a suppressor than us in the USA even though we have the 2A. I wish lawmakers wouldn't make laws on things they have no clue about.
Czech Republic. Silencers are "class C firearms", meaning that they are serialized and registered, but you do not need to get paperwork ahead of purchase. You buy it and then you have 10 days to bring it in to the police and register it. Note that firearm possession (including silencers) requires a license in Czech Republic, but the license is shall issue. Funny story. A sporting goods chain called Decathlon which also operates in countries where silencers are unregulated recently made an oopsie when they delivered silencers into Czech stores and put them on shelves. Several gun owners bought them because this happened soon after silencers were legalized here (under the conditions described above, whereas previously they were MIL/LE only) and they did not know the details and just assumed that if the store gives it to them without even having to show a gun license, then it must be OK.
On dirtying up an AR; all they have to do is what your father and my father told us: when you take a gun out shooting, clean the thing. My father was a little more graphic in his phrasing but the point is made. Keep up the good work.
Mas, it's great to see you still teaching. We haven't talked in several years, but your tell me to contact Bob (as my Expert Witness) was definitely the right move. He blew them outta the water. We won a decision in a trial by Judge and the defense decided against appealing. Hopefully, I see you sometime soon. Patch
Hearing protection that is a great idea, some body should tell the politiqueros in D.C. they needed all are deaf. The right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringe. Great video.
I run one on a 7.62 piston gun with no problems. The added weight and reduced recoil allow for very quick follow up shots. Thanks for the great discussion.
I'm a huge fan of hunting suppressed... it just makes for a more enjoyable hunting experience from quieting the shot and reducing recoil. I've also never seen a reduction of accuracy when using a suppressor it's always been the exact opposite even when using a QD mount.
You mentioned damage to dog's hearing. On TV westerns, you see hero chasing villains from horseback. I've wondered about damage to horse's hearing even with movie blanks. With live rounds, it would seem the horse would throw the rider as soon as it heard the muzzle blast from the revolver.
If you get a chance, watch the ladies at a Single Action Society match shoot while riding their horses around a track. You will notice that the horses have hearing protection. Just as you have to train a bird-dog to deal with the loud noises, so you do with your horse.
You forgot to mention the cost of a metal tube with baffles that takes about $10 worth of materials and nails you for $1000 PLUS the $200 tag.... yeah, I'm saving up for one. 🙂
Hi, great channel by the way! Im from the UK and own hunting rifles here in 243 and 270 calibre. The “suppressor” as you call it, is called a “moderator”, or “sound moderator” over here, due to its ability to moderate sound. Not a muffler as you termed it. We have to state a valid reason for owning one which can only be done in conjunction with a valid firearms certificate. The reason we state for its use, is for our own hearing protection, if you hunt in forests or woods for example, the sound to the shooter, without a moderator can be very uncomfortable and can even lead to hearing damage through repeated use which I’m sure you are fully aware of. Keep up the good work, this is one of my favourite shooting related channels.
I have silencers on my designated home defense guns. My biggest fear is that if I needed to use one, the sound of an unsuppressed shot would get my kids out of bed and rushing to see what was happening. The added bonus is not going any more deaf than I already am. Always great to hear words of wisdom, thanks gentlemen.
I had always considered the process of getting a suppressor in light of a big negative: having to register myself on a government list as a gun owner. The point made about being a "card carrying good guy" - having been investigated by the government for 6 months (and how that can be used in front of a jury) - is an excellent point. It has changed my mind in considering a suppressor for self/home defense. Thanks Massad Ayoob and Bill Wilson.
It’s sad that we would need to be investigated for 6 months to be shown as being a good guy. When the government should have to prove I am in fact a bad guy.
Mr. Massad, you are the man! You are truly one of my heroes, and someone that I admire and respect very much. For what it's worth, I have shot a lot, 9mm Beretta pistols and Sako and Remington .308 bolt action rifles. I live in an open-carry state (LA), so I carry at all times, even at home. It doesn't even raise eyebrows at the grocery, although most people carry concealed. I refuse to jump through the hoops to do that, so I just open-carry. It seems to work for me.
I was issued suppressors in my government service. After retiring I lived in a state that permitted suppressors. I find them (suppressors) a useful tool. Thanks for the video. 👍😊🇺🇸
I have a topic: After the Jose alba case in New York, I’ve noticed. Everyone including the news citing (self-defense laws). Thinking they are (deadly self defense laws). It’s a problem that I must always remind individuals of the difference. Now I know this community is aware of the difference 😶 but never hurts to refresh
Where we will run into trouble is the nasty habit of packing the jury. I was on a jury panel. All I knew about the case was it involved a gun. When asked if I knew anything about guns, I answered I am an Army veteran, I fired the M1, M14, M1911, BAR, and Ma Deuce. I never got to my status as an NRA volunteer rifle and hunter safety instructor before I was bounced from the jury. This sort of thing is like bouncing licensed drivers from reckless driving and auto accident cases. I was under the impression that the purpose of a trial was to ARRIVE AT THE TRUTH, not necessarily to convict the accused. Getting people with different backgrounds is one of the reasons we have juries. It makes it harder for prosecutors and judges with political agendas to cause wrongful convictions. Two cases where the suspect appeared to be wrongly convicted appeared in your gunzine columns. One involved someone wrongly convicted of possession of a machine gun because of a defective sear caused his M16 modern sporting rifle to occasionally double. The fact that the prosecutor motioned and the judge excluded mention of defective sear would to me have introduced reasonable doubt. The second case I recalled involved a suicide involving reloaded ammo. Again prosecution motioned and the judge excluded mention of reloaded ammo. The powder burn evidence showed a discharge from inches away. The crime lab used factory cartridges to replicate the powder burn pattern. Since reloaders can tell reloaded ammo from factory cartridges by looking at the case, excluding mentioning of reloading would to me have introduced a reasonable doubt. With factory ammo, this "evidence" (sic) showed the gun was farther away, and the accused was convicted of having held the gun and murder. Conviction should be to a moral certainty and beyond a reasonable doubt. Silencers should never have been subject to the same treatment as machine guns and short barreled rifles and shotguns. My Army service left me with hearing damage. I would have benefited by suppressing my rifles and pistols, but the NFA thought different. If they do the same bull#### I saw regarding stacking juries and Biden's desire to pack the Supreme Court with judicial activists instead of Constitutionalists, we got an uphill fight. I might mention that in the Army, I was called a s### house lawyer because of my ability to see past a lot of the monkey business that amounted to misapplication of Army regulations. Didn't always work. Ended up getting an article 15 for an event that involved saving the lives of two soldiers who would have died from hypothermia had I not acted.
You only truthfully answer the question. “Yep, I know which end the bullets come from” asked more “I tried hunting, didn’t care for it”…. I was on jury involving a semi driver who was careless (likely also improperly adjusted brakes on O/O truck/trailer). I answered honestly. But did not volunteer I am a CDL, did month over the road when friends co-driver got hurt… so I took his place. Lawyers told a crazy story. Outside dual rolls, inside locked. 8 backed up “icy” loading dock, but 18 properly adjusted tires can’t hold 3x. He never adjusted to situation. The jury went from $$$$$ to driver. To just small amount. If nobody was there that understood pre trip, drivers responsibility, how equipment works.. stuff the lawyer on defense should have done. If I had kept talking. I would likely have been excused. Be honest. Just don’t tell life story.
You do know that the current supreme court justices that are repealing our rights as citizens were placed by the Trump administration and both Bush administrations right?
@@larsharris it's public record who was placed by who. Go look it up for yourself, it'll take you less the 10 minutes and it appears that you'll learn things as well.
@@timowsley ok why is what I replied to not showing? I honestly don’t recall what I asked you to expand on. Why is what I clearly replied to gone? Shows 4 replies (after this 5) hard to learn when original topic, info is gone…
Mr. Wilson I am glad to hear this discussion on silencers. You highlighted a concern I have regarding blowback when shooting semi autos. This would argue in favor of going to lead free catalyst primers like federal uses. I love the ballistics of your Lehigh defender bullets but I am reluctant to purchase greater quantities by my concern of breathing in lead from the primers. The military is so concerned about this that they are expressly asking for low blow back silencers to avoid their special forces exposure. Please add lead free catalyst primers to your Lehigh cartridges. They are already a premium product so cost would be if little issue and I would think this would be a selling point especially considering the bullet is already lead free. Regards, Jim
I have a suppressor, and I absolutely love it. They are becoming easier to purchase every year. I am cautiously optimistic they will be taken off the NFA list within a few years.
Happy 4th of July. I picked up my suppressors 2-3 weeks ago, and I have used them a couple of times, the difference on my Walther PPQ is like night and day. A couple of guys the next lane over did not realize that I was using a suppressor, and remarked on how quiet it was. I held it at an angle so they could see the suppressor, they thought it was cool. On my Ar-15 all I can say is wow, what a difference.
Built an AR in 300 blk for many reasons. It's a legal round for taking deer in my area and the platform is great for my kids to use. Also the versatility of that round to be loaded sub or supersonic lends itself to better suppressor use. I'm hoping to make use of that fact within a couple years. I will probably upgrade to an adjustable gas block at the same time though.
"Cat", here, Sir! Another excellent video/teaching moment by you and associates! Thank you! There are two subjects I would like for you to consider for future Wilson Combat sponsored videos, please. 1. How are veterans, especially combat vets with Combat PTSD Chronic Unemployable VA compensated disability ratings up to 100% affected, in general, by local, county, state and federal laws and regulations running the full gamet of the shooting sports? According to the mental health bible, The DSM, Combat PTSD Chronic Unemployable is defined as a "mental illness" and in some cases as a "severe mental illness"? 2. A video discussing the prime first reaction to receiving fire of finding cover or shelter first and then shooting back, when possible? Too many training facilities and individuals stress standing your ground upright and returning fire "hollywood fashion" while fully exposed. Even before dropping to the ground/floor, rolling over your back aligned parallel with the target in the least exposed position possible and returning fire?
Something mentioned by Bill but not referred to in home defense, flash suppression and reducing your "night vision" indoors. A muzzle flash not only is load but it also reduces or remove a persons ability to see in the darkened room. Just another positive.
Excellent. Just ordered my first suppressor - just about done with the AFT stuff. The process is much faster now due to changes earlier this year I was told - should take only ~3 months now.
This was mentioned with regards to a rifle but with a Sig 45 1911, it is so comfortable to fire that pistol... it just fits like a glove. The silencer really throws that off but definitely not to the point that you wouldn't want it. It's bittersweet.
@little drane well sure, I don't carry suppressed ccw. But if im going somewhere traveling I definitely carry my full size service 9 with a suppressor detached with it in a backpack
I was reluctant to embrace the suppressor for my 5.56 home defense weapon. Y'all changed my mind thanks guys for sharing your wealth of knowledge it helps
I own a 222 bolt action with a suppressor. I'm French but i won't hesitate to use it. I want to be able to save my earring. I also have a 22 lr with a silencer. Still saving to buy one for my 243... 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻 (No taxe stamps here, you buy it as you'd buy candies...)
Yup, I got three hogs in under a minute w/ a suppressed 300blk because the sounder didn't know where to go, or how far to go. A friend got two hogs, side by side, in 5 seconds with a suppressed 300blk bolt gun, and the second hog didn't even move after the first dropped. also really nice to not have to worry about hearing protection (most of the time) when hunting.
It would be good to see his newer handguns with threaded barrels. Not sure why they don't have it as an option. Very useful for a home defense handgun.
I think that it's just a matter of time before we see a self defense case using a suppressor because of how many people are purchasing them. To me it just makes sense to have one on your home defense weapon.
Good point never thought about my dogs hearing she found a lot of wounded dear and she would stand back while I put it down thinking about it how may have not been fare enough but she found it she wanted it after it was done she took the dear and I let her before she passed I took her to south Carolina where I hunted with her the last 6years of her life and shot two dear for her she didn't have to find and gave her all the time she wanted with them .buy the way it was not aney of the dear I put down mine went down were they stood now I think about it it maybe Y she could not hear and mabey because she passed at 16years old eather way she had a lot of good adventures with me Thank You guys for the memories with her.
I heard an urban legend that the real reason silencers were restricted in the first place is because the government was worried about people poaching deer during the great depression. It's so stupid that it actually makes sense.
I love em. I'd use any tool to defend myself that makes it more effective. However a baffled suppressor does dirty up a gun more. Hence adjustable gas blocks
Other commenters have mentioned there are a number countries where suppressors are legal to manufacture, own, and use. Given that, if suppressors were legalized federally, i.e. removed from the NFA, I would expect that prices would drop as more become available and competition kicks in.
Thanks for this video! I currently own a single suppressor and really enjoy shooting with it as do my grandkids in particular. I would definitely like to mount them on more firearms for the benefit of my near neighbors who have to listen to my range sessions and successful hunting trips; but I am irked by the tax and lengthy wait that I have to endure to get one now days. I have a close friend who just secured one in 9mm and waited for over a year to get his hands on it…ridiculous! Really enjoy the channel guys!!
I learn something every time I watch one of your vids. Every time. Even when it's a subject I'm fairly familiar with, there's always an aspect I hadn't considered or a factoid I hadn't heard yet Thanks guys!
It’s best to have a home defense weapon that’s suppressed. It pairs well with a set of powered ear pro. The miffs knocks out any blast from your ears, the suppressor protects the ears of your family and the muffs allow you to hear the threat even better than without them.
Suppressors should be readily accessible and available to all gun owners as an OSHA safety requirement as their studies have proven that indoor/outdoor ranges peak noise levels were greater than 160 dB...exceeding their 'recommended exposure levels' standards...FBI criminal studies have dispelled the myth of criminal use of suppressors...
Good advice as always. It may be just my mindset but I shy away from giving any government bureaucrat any more reason to have me in his database of people to come screw with when they inevitably decide that anyone who's gone through all those hoops is to turn in what they now decided is bad for you to own.
In New Zealand where I live suppressors have been freely available to anyone ever since I can remember (and I'm 80)... Most hunting rifles have them, and almost all .22s. Handguns are heavily regulated here so moderators are not as common on them. The most commonly used firearm for self defence seems to the .22RF, but I don't think the courts here view silencers in a negative way at all, as we have always had them. In fact, some of the very best ones in the world are made right here....they guys have had a LOT of practice... 🙂. The other self defence weapon seems to a shotgun of some sort, and there are silencers for those that are bulky, but light (mostly plastic) and a uncannily quiet, especially with trap loads..... They are not common though....
A suppressor can keep the hunter from being the hunted. Situational awareness in the field is critical. One needs to be able to hear if they are being stalked by a predator. It only makes sense and is obvious. In a tactical situation it enables the good guys to be aware and communicate without destroying their hearing.
They don't get in a hurry. That's for sure . A little over a year now waiting on 2 specifically for hog rifles. Done through silencershop kiosk form 4's. Hopefully soon. Same deal, want them for hearing protection, they're not silent even with a bolt gun. It's crazy.
That last was an interesting point. Wonder if someone involved in a self defense incident and owns a legal NFA item could bring that up as a testament to their character even if the item had not been used in the incident.
I would love to own one and the first gun I would put it on is a bolt gun/non semi auto. I am not an NFA person however and am reluctant to take that step. Peace and Grace to both of you!
I keep hearing that any NFA item affects your rights specifically to search by the ATF. The two most common stories I hear are you allow the ATF to search and inspect any NFA item on demand and that you are required to inform the ATF of where any NFA item is located or stored at all times so they can inspect it at will. I have also heard many say these are myths but never from any source authoritative enough that I would take their word on it. I keep saying that I will pay for a consultation with an attorney specialized in firearms/criminal code to get an answer but it always gets passed over as just another hoop that is too much trouble to take and I refuse to give up my civil rights / liberties to own an NFA item so it just gets pushed year after year. Would love to hear what Mr. Wilson and Mr. Ayoob know about these or other NFA myths.
The only thing they can inspect without a warrant are the nfa items in question. However they can use this.waiver to enter your home or place of business for the purpose of inspecting said items. They'll seldom, if ever, do so unless they suspect some crime has been committed. So don't commit crimes. Or be stupid. Have a way of accessing your gun safe without having a bunch of strangers traipsing through your family room.
100% myth I believe most reputable silencer mfg have this in their faq, silencerco as an example. Silencershop, or capital armory the largest nfa dealers in the country I believe have addressed this in video or faq. A silencer tax stamp is literally a Boston tea party style stamp that's on your paperwork. The confusion is from class III SOT dealers. They submit to similar rules although not all you listed and a few you did not.
This is totally how most conversations about how suppressors and the ATF searches goes. Now I definitely say this "Suppressors Pro & Con" video needs a follow up with a "Suppressors Fact & Fiction" version. Could cover up the NFA ATF search debate, how many decibels suppressors actually reduce, form 1 vs form 4, solvent traps, cleaning/durability, sharing suppressors across platforms and there are probably more out there too.
This is 100% myth and gun store rumors. Owning NFA items as a private citizen DOES NOT allow for warrantless searches/inspections of NFA items. Where this myth comes from is if you have an FFL (federal firearms license) to run a gun store THEN the ATF can conduct warrantless searches/inspections. 99.99% of the time when the ATF shows up at a private residence in regards to NFA items is when the actual owner of said items dies and the relatives call the ATF in regards to how to transfer them or get rid of them (which this area of the NFA world is already covered on how to complete).
There is one negative I can think of that was not mentioned. That would be mirage from the suppressor. There are things you can do to help mitigate mirage, and some use cases it's more of an issue than others. It is another aspect of shooting suppressed that needs to be considered.
Depends… they get extremely hot very quickly and then there’s the issue of carbon lock. It’s also easy to tell if you’ve been shooting suppressed from a particular gun.
Another disadvantage which builds on what Bill said: dwell time is effectively increased which is where the extra gas and its accompanying extra fouling comes from; this not only dirties up the action faster it causes greater wear especially in AK pattern rifles which tend to be over gassed to begin with. It is always recommended to have an adjustable gas block to deal with this. Also, AR owners especially tend to get gassed in the face due to openings in the charging handle area. Adjustable gas systems and specialized charging handles should be used to reduce "gas face".
Thank you guys for yet another great informative vid. I was just "approved" for my first can a few weeks ago. All I have to say is WOW what a difference on my 5.56, 10.5" SBR. Now I'm looking at another can for my 9mm Scorpion SBR. These things are like Lays potatoe chips. You can't have just one !
And just yesterday I submitted my form 4 for the 9mm can for my Scorpion. Plus I'm now looking at a .30cal can for my 308 AR platform rifle. So it is true, ya just cant have just one like the Lays chips or I've got "can fever" !
It increases accuracy because the gasses get trapped behind the bullet when it leavea the barrel. The weight also contributes to rigidity, which reduces barrel whip/harmonics because of a stiffer barrel.
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Suppressors and SBRs should be removed from the NFA. There is absolutely no reason to regulate these items that do not make the gun more lethal than it already is. It’s an infringement and an unjust tax and hurdle to exercising your constitutional rights.
Since the new US military rifles are all coming with a suppressed barrel shorter than 16 inches, the NFA has never looked so unconstitutional. Keep in mind the original $200 tax stamp when the NFA was passed in 1934 is the equivalent of over $4,000 today. It's indefensible.
@@barfy362 LOL Don't give the revenuers any ideas.
Oh but the silencer would make the weapon so quiet you won't hear it an inch away! /sarcasm
The NFA should be removed soon by the courts. Hoping a case is brought soon.
How 'bout just repeal the nfa itself..
Abolish the AFT and 44s7av3ry forms.
I live in New Jersey where suppressors are illegal. My wife's family is from Germany. She was born here. One of here German born cousins was visiting and he was a shooter. I asked if he wanted to go shooting with me he said yes. When I opened my gun cabinet to see what he wanted to shoot. He asked where my suppressors were. I said they were illegal. He explained that in Germany shooting with a suppressor was considered being a good neighbor. I said I knew.
The only con with suppressors is government interference and paying 200 dollars.
Back then $200 was a LOT of cash and still......people accepted it.
Gotta love Texas forever, for that one.
@little drane then you don’t run a can on your Cary gun your not going to have a chance to screw it on when you need it
There's no Con with suppressors, it's the lying, cheating, stealing federal government that's the Con.. 🧐
That’s the only con that would effect my decision to use one or not. While certainly not the only con, it’s the worst one.
I was very very happy that he mentioned caring about his dogs sensitive hearing. We gotta take care of our pooches. They are our first defense in terms of being excellent early detection methods. My dog will warn me of anyone around the house at all giving me time to get prepped real quick. She’s part of the family like my child.
I myself cannot stand any more hearing damage. Several years ago I took my grandson to an indoor range where we were the only shooters. As we were leaving I did not notice a new shooter enter. Just as I was entering the exit I began to remove my hearing protection and at that exact time the shooter fired a 357 magnum just to my right. I suffered permanent damage to my right ear. I also had a head cold which limited the pressure equalization in that ear. I love to shoot and easy and cheap access to silencers would be a blessing. Our lawmakers have watched too many movies where silencers are used and think we are assassins.
Similar thing happened to me. Preventing hearing loss is the main reason for getting a suppressor.
@@RayDoyouagree exactly. I just read an article today about hearing protection. It actually went into how you lose your hearing. Quite fascinating. (The tiny hairs in your cochlea die off... and do not regenerate. That's the short version.)
It our fault for supporting companies that comply with these infringements.
Happy independence day
Thanks, but independence has been gone for decades.
Interesting that the dogs hearing was brought up. It's one of the reasons that I do all of my target shooting with suppressors. The dogs are always with me at my property and I want to protect their hearing. If I am going to shoot unsuppressed, the dogs go into the truck with the windows rolled up and the AC on to protect them. I usually wear plugs and muffs.
Yeah, that always bothers me when I see it in youtube videos or anywhere else.
Their ears are ridiculously sensitive. Gotta be awful.
What I do with my bird dog is I trained him to wear ear muffs on the shore and boat, with a lanyard tied to the band. After the shots and the command, he jumps in and leaves the muffs tied to a tree or the boat seat. With his ears flat under the muffs, he probably has about a 35 db reduction. It works BEAUTIFULLY!
@@colbullsigh6823 nice idea - training can do amazing things!
Run raccoons dogs...we use supressors
Animal welfare!🐕 Great play to cross the aisle.👏
Here in South Africa, just like magazines, suppressors are not regulated and you can walk into a gunshop anywhere and buy one over the counter. They are very popular and widely used for hunting here.
The biggest cons on suppressors are:
Asking big brother for permission for a muffler, the registration, and the extortion fee.
that's not a problem with the suppressor..
@@akcarlos Licking their boots don’t help us. C’mon, it’s “Independence” Day
And the wait.
@@Strawman333 I have no idea what you are talking about , my point was that its your government that made that Con, its not a con of the actual suppressor.
@@akcarlos that’s exactly the guys point. He doesn’t think suppressors have cons, just the red tape is the con.
It's even more maddening when you learn that countries in the Europe have an easier time getting a suppressor than us in the USA even though we have the 2A. I wish lawmakers wouldn't make laws on things they have no clue about.
Even in anti gun Canada its easier to get a can than here
Czech Republic. Silencers are "class C firearms", meaning that they are serialized and registered, but you do not need to get paperwork ahead of purchase. You buy it and then you have 10 days to bring it in to the police and register it. Note that firearm possession (including silencers) requires a license in Czech Republic, but the license is shall issue.
Funny story. A sporting goods chain called Decathlon which also operates in countries where silencers are unregulated recently made an oopsie when they delivered silencers into Czech stores and put them on shelves. Several gun owners bought them because this happened soon after silencers were legalized here (under the conditions described above, whereas previously they were MIL/LE only) and they did not know the details and just assumed that if the store gives it to them without even having to show a gun license, then it must be OK.
They don’t care about gun knowledge, they just don’t want you to have it.
You guys are great, thank you. And after 40 years of reading Mr. Ayoob's articles, I've learned, when Mas speaks, I listen.
I could listen to Massad read the phone book.
On dirtying up an AR; all they have to do is what your father and my father told us: when you take a gun out shooting, clean the thing. My father was a little more graphic in his phrasing but the point is made. Keep up the good work.
Wilson Combat is a wealth of information & firearm entertainment! My #1 Station!
I just got notified I was approved to get my suppressor. It only took 14 and a 1/2 months.
Congratulations.
30 + years of Tinnitus, shooting suppressed esp on my 2011 is a pleasure.
On my ARs it does increase clean up, but that is well worth it.
Mas, it's great to see you still teaching. We haven't talked in several years, but your tell me to contact Bob (as my Expert Witness) was definitely the right move. He blew them outta the water. We won a decision in a trial by Judge and the defense decided against appealing. Hopefully, I see you sometime soon.
Patch
Hearing protection that is a great idea, some body should tell the politiqueros in D.C. they needed all are deaf.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringe.
Great video.
Love listening to these 2 gentlemen, unmeasurable wealth of knowledge
I run one on a 7.62 piston gun with no problems. The added weight and reduced recoil allow for very quick follow up shots. Thanks for the great discussion.
I'm a huge fan of hunting suppressed... it just makes for a more enjoyable hunting experience from quieting the shot and reducing recoil. I've also never seen a reduction of accuracy when using a suppressor it's always been the exact opposite even when using a QD mount.
You mentioned damage to dog's hearing. On TV westerns, you see hero chasing villains from horseback. I've wondered about damage to horse's hearing even with movie blanks. With live rounds, it would seem the horse would throw the rider as soon as it heard the muzzle blast from the revolver.
If you get a chance, watch the ladies at a Single Action Society match shoot while riding their horses around a track. You will notice that the horses have hearing protection. Just as you have to train a bird-dog to deal with the loud noises, so you do with your horse.
@@johnreacher3756 :
This is today. I was wondering about, for example, part of the Lone Ranger title shot from when I was a kid.
You forgot to mention the cost of a metal tube with baffles that takes about $10 worth of materials and nails you for $1000 PLUS the $200 tag.... yeah, I'm saving up for one. 🙂
Hi, great channel by the way! Im from the UK and own hunting rifles here in 243 and 270 calibre. The “suppressor” as you call it, is called a “moderator”, or “sound moderator” over here, due to its ability to moderate sound. Not a muffler as you termed it. We have to state a valid reason for owning one which can only be done in conjunction with a valid firearms certificate. The reason we state for its use, is for our own hearing protection, if you hunt in forests or woods for example, the sound to the shooter, without a moderator can be very uncomfortable and can even lead to hearing damage through repeated use which I’m sure you are fully aware of. Keep up the good work, this is one of my favourite shooting related channels.
Very good video. I tell people all the time, if you want the ideal home defense weapon, it needs to have a silencer on it.
I have silencers on my designated home defense guns. My biggest fear is that if I needed to use one, the sound of an unsuppressed shot would get my kids out of bed and rushing to see what was happening. The added bonus is not going any more deaf than I already am. Always great to hear words of wisdom, thanks gentlemen.
I had always considered the process of getting a suppressor in light of a big negative: having to register myself on a government list as a gun owner. The point made about being a "card carrying good guy" - having been investigated by the government for 6 months (and how that can be used in front of a jury) - is an excellent point. It has changed my mind in considering a suppressor for self/home defense. Thanks Massad Ayoob and Bill Wilson.
It’s sad that we would need to be investigated for 6 months to be shown as being a good guy. When the government should have to prove I am in fact a bad guy.
Good points, I am early in the video.
Aren't you already basically 'on a list' when you fill out the 4473?
@@everythingisaworkinprogres5729 Sure are. They know your social security number, name, address, model and serial number of your new firearm.
@@lowandslow3939 exactly. So why are folks so 'omg, I'm NOT getting on a government list'?
SUGGESTION for VIDEO: Do a video same way on suppressors for handguns and home defense ! 🔥❤️
Mr. Massad, you are the man! You are truly one of my heroes, and someone that I admire and respect very much. For what it's worth, I have shot a lot, 9mm Beretta pistols and Sako and Remington .308 bolt action rifles. I live in an open-carry state (LA), so I carry at all times, even at home. It doesn't even raise eyebrows at the grocery, although most people carry concealed. I refuse to jump through the hoops to do that, so I just open-carry. It seems to work for me.
I was issued suppressors in
my government service. After retiring I lived in a state
that permitted suppressors.
I find them (suppressors)
a useful tool. Thanks for the
video. 👍😊🇺🇸
Thanks for sharing
I have a topic: After the Jose alba case in New York, I’ve noticed. Everyone including the news citing (self-defense laws). Thinking they are (deadly self defense laws). It’s a problem that I must always remind individuals of the difference. Now I know this community is aware of the difference 😶 but never hurts to refresh
Pro for suppressors ! Thank you for sharing Bill and Massad.
Our pleasure!
You both are great teachers and first class individuals. I have followed you both for years....
Awesome! Thank you!
Where we will run into trouble is the nasty habit of packing the jury. I was on a jury panel. All I knew about the case was it involved a gun. When asked if I knew anything about guns, I answered I am an Army veteran, I fired the M1, M14, M1911, BAR, and Ma Deuce. I never got to my status as an NRA volunteer rifle and hunter safety instructor before I was bounced from the jury. This sort of thing is like bouncing licensed drivers from reckless driving and auto accident cases. I was under the impression that the purpose of a trial was to ARRIVE AT THE TRUTH, not necessarily to convict the accused. Getting people with different backgrounds is one of the reasons we have juries. It makes it harder for prosecutors and judges with political agendas to cause wrongful convictions.
Two cases where the suspect appeared to be wrongly convicted appeared in your gunzine columns. One involved someone wrongly convicted of possession of a machine gun because of a defective sear caused his M16 modern sporting rifle to occasionally double. The fact that the prosecutor motioned and the judge excluded mention of defective sear would to me have introduced reasonable doubt. The second case I recalled involved a suicide involving reloaded ammo. Again prosecution motioned and the judge excluded mention of reloaded ammo. The powder burn evidence showed a discharge from inches away. The crime lab used factory cartridges to replicate the powder burn pattern. Since reloaders can tell reloaded ammo from factory cartridges by looking at the case, excluding mentioning of reloading would to me have introduced a reasonable doubt. With factory ammo, this "evidence" (sic) showed the gun was farther away, and the accused was convicted of having held the gun and murder. Conviction should be to a moral certainty and beyond a reasonable doubt.
Silencers should never have been subject to the same treatment as machine guns and short barreled rifles and shotguns. My Army service left me with hearing damage. I would have benefited by suppressing my rifles and pistols, but the NFA thought different. If they do the same bull#### I saw regarding stacking juries and Biden's desire to pack the Supreme Court with judicial activists instead of Constitutionalists, we got an uphill fight.
I might mention that in the Army, I was called a s### house lawyer because of my ability to see past a lot of the monkey business that amounted to misapplication of Army regulations. Didn't always work. Ended up getting an article 15 for an event that involved saving the lives of two soldiers who would have died from hypothermia had I not acted.
You only truthfully answer the question. “Yep, I know which end the bullets come from” asked more “I tried hunting, didn’t care for it”….
I was on jury involving a semi driver who was careless (likely also improperly adjusted brakes on O/O truck/trailer). I answered honestly. But did not volunteer I am a CDL, did month over the road when friends co-driver got hurt… so I took his place. Lawyers told a crazy story. Outside dual rolls, inside locked. 8 backed up “icy” loading dock, but 18 properly adjusted tires can’t hold 3x. He never adjusted to situation. The jury went from $$$$$ to driver. To just small amount. If nobody was there that understood pre trip, drivers responsibility, how equipment works.. stuff the lawyer on defense should have done.
If I had kept talking. I would likely have been excused. Be honest. Just don’t tell life story.
You do know that the current supreme court justices that are repealing our rights as citizens were placed by the Trump administration and both Bush administrations right?
@@timowsley please expand on this. Examples
@@larsharris it's public record who was placed by who. Go look it up for yourself, it'll take you less the 10 minutes and it appears that you'll learn things as well.
@@timowsley ok why is what I replied to not showing? I honestly don’t recall what I asked you to expand on. Why is what I clearly replied to gone? Shows 4 replies (after this 5) hard to learn when original topic, info is gone…
Massad, you sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you
You are very welcome
One awesome episode once again. Great topic, great points and arguments.
Thanks for this.
Our pleasure!
New Zealand also allows unencumbered purchase of silencers and require their use in some situations.
Thanks guys!
Our pleasure!
Y’all always have beyond excellent videos with excellent topics being discussed. I look forward to the next one. Thank you gentlemen
Our pleasure!
Mr. Wilson I am glad to hear this discussion on silencers. You highlighted a concern I have regarding blowback when shooting semi autos. This would argue in favor of going to lead free catalyst primers like federal uses. I love the ballistics of your Lehigh defender bullets but I am reluctant to purchase greater quantities by my concern of breathing in lead from the primers. The military is so concerned about this that they are expressly asking for low blow back silencers to avoid their special forces exposure. Please add lead free catalyst primers to your Lehigh cartridges. They are already a premium product so cost would be if little issue and I would think this would be a selling point especially considering the bullet is already lead free.
Regards,
Jim
I have a suppressor, and I absolutely love it. They are becoming easier to purchase every year. I am cautiously optimistic they will be taken off the NFA list within a few years.
Great to hear!
Happy 4th of July. I picked up my suppressors 2-3 weeks ago, and I have used them a couple of times, the difference on my Walther PPQ is like night and day. A couple of guys the next lane over did not realize that I was using a suppressor, and remarked on how quiet it was. I held it at an angle so they could see the suppressor, they thought it was cool. On my Ar-15 all I can say is wow, what a difference.
Thanks for sharing
I shot a 9mm AR over the weekend with a suppressor and wow it was awesome shooting steel targets all you hear is the ring I definitely want one now.
Thanks, guys!
Well thought out statement about legalities involved.
Built an AR in 300 blk for many reasons. It's a legal round for taking deer in my area and the platform is great for my kids to use. Also the versatility of that round to be loaded sub or supersonic lends itself to better suppressor use. I'm hoping to make use of that fact within a couple years. I will probably upgrade to an adjustable gas block at the same time though.
"Cat", here, Sir!
Another excellent video/teaching moment by you and associates! Thank you!
There are two subjects I would like for you to consider for future Wilson Combat sponsored videos, please.
1. How are veterans, especially combat vets with Combat PTSD Chronic Unemployable VA compensated disability ratings up to 100% affected, in general, by local, county, state and federal laws and regulations running the full gamet of the shooting sports? According to the mental health bible, The DSM, Combat PTSD Chronic Unemployable is defined as a "mental illness" and in some cases as a "severe mental illness"?
2. A video discussing the prime first reaction to receiving fire of finding cover or shelter first and then shooting back, when possible? Too many training facilities and individuals stress standing your ground upright and returning fire "hollywood fashion" while fully exposed. Even before dropping to the ground/floor, rolling over your back aligned parallel with the target in the least exposed position possible and returning fire?
Something mentioned by Bill but not referred to in home defense, flash suppression and reducing your "night vision" indoors. A muzzle flash not only is load but it also reduces or remove a persons ability to see in the darkened room. Just another positive.
Excellent. Just ordered my first suppressor - just about done with the AFT stuff. The process is much faster now due to changes earlier this year I was told - should take only ~3 months now.
Good luck!
This was mentioned with regards to a rifle but with a Sig 45 1911, it is so comfortable to fire that pistol... it just fits like a glove. The silencer really throws that off but definitely not to the point that you wouldn't want it. It's bittersweet.
Suppress everything. Its a game changer
@little drane well sure, I don't carry suppressed ccw. But if im going somewhere traveling I definitely carry my full size service 9 with a suppressor detached with it in a backpack
I was reluctant to embrace the suppressor for my 5.56 home defense weapon. Y'all changed my mind thanks guys for sharing your wealth of knowledge it helps
Amen on honesty, salute brother
I own a 222 bolt action with a suppressor. I'm French but i won't hesitate to use it. I want to be able to save my earring. I also have a 22 lr with a silencer. Still saving to buy one for my 243...
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
(No taxe stamps here, you buy it as you'd buy candies...)
Yup, I got three hogs in under a minute w/ a suppressed 300blk because the sounder didn't know where to go, or how far to go.
A friend got two hogs, side by side, in 5 seconds with a suppressed 300blk bolt gun, and the second hog didn't even move after the first dropped.
also really nice to not have to worry about hearing protection (most of the time) when hunting.
Thanks for another great video! Debating biting the bullet for the tax stamp for suppressors here in Oregon
do it! totally worth it. I'm in Oregon and glad I did
@@sgtslippyfist6345 Does it last for only a few years or for life?
@@vaporiiz for life, one time fee
It would be good to see his newer handguns with threaded barrels. Not sure why they don't have it as an option. Very useful for a home defense handgun.
Thanks Guys.
Our pleasure!
I think that it's just a matter of time before we see a self defense case using a suppressor because of how many people are purchasing them. To me it just makes sense to have one on your home defense weapon.
Good point never thought about my dogs hearing she found a lot of wounded dear and she would stand back while I put it down thinking about it how may have not been fare enough but she found it she wanted it after it was done she took the dear and I let her before she passed I took her to south Carolina where I hunted with her the last 6years of her life and shot two dear for her she didn't have to find and gave her all the time she wanted with them .buy the way it was not aney of the dear I put down mine went down were they stood now I think about it it maybe Y she could not hear and mabey because she passed at 16years old eather way she had a lot of good adventures with me Thank You guys for the memories with her.
I heard an urban legend that the real reason silencers were restricted in the first place is because the government was worried about people poaching deer during the great depression. It's so stupid that it actually makes sense.
_'whisper'_
That is where you got me!
I love em. I'd use any tool to defend myself that makes it more effective. However a baffled suppressor does dirty up a gun more. Hence adjustable gas blocks
Great commentary.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Other commenters have mentioned there are a number countries where suppressors are legal to manufacture, own, and use. Given that, if suppressors were legalized federally, i.e. removed from the NFA, I would expect that prices would drop as more become available and competition kicks in.
Great video. Thank you gentlemen.
Our pleasure!
Thanks for this video! I currently own a single suppressor and really enjoy shooting with it as do my grandkids in particular. I would definitely like to mount them on more firearms for the benefit of my near neighbors who have to listen to my range sessions and successful hunting trips; but I am irked by the tax and lengthy wait that I have to endure to get one now days. I have a close friend who just secured one in 9mm and waited for over a year to get his hands on it…ridiculous! Really enjoy the channel guys!!
I learn something every time I watch one of your vids. Every time.
Even when it's a subject I'm fairly familiar with, there's always an aspect I hadn't considered or a factoid I hadn't heard yet Thanks guys!
It’s best to have a home defense weapon that’s suppressed. It pairs well with a set of powered ear pro. The miffs knocks out any blast from your ears, the suppressor protects the ears of your family and the muffs allow you to hear the threat even better than without them.
Great info! I have been on the verge of purchasing "mufflers" for both the AR and the Beretta. Happy Fourth!
Right on
Great video guys. Your pros and cons are spot on for suppressors.
Thanks 👍
This channel so far has been a class act and as such I listen very carefully. Thank you for the wonderful content and please keep them coming.
Our pleasure!
Suppressors should be readily accessible and available to all gun owners as an OSHA safety requirement as their studies have proven that indoor/outdoor ranges peak noise levels were greater than 160 dB...exceeding their 'recommended exposure levels' standards...FBI criminal studies have dispelled the myth of criminal use of suppressors...
Your channel is like the Neighborhood of Make Believe for us New Yorkers
Good advice as always. It may be just my mindset but I shy away from giving any government bureaucrat any more reason to have me in his database of people to come screw with when they inevitably decide that anyone who's gone through all those hoops is to turn in what they now decided is bad for you to own.
You all have me looking into one of these now. I recently saw a video of a Ruger American in 300 blackout with a suppressor. Woo hoo, looks fun!!!
In New Zealand where I live suppressors have been freely available to anyone ever since I can remember (and I'm 80)... Most hunting rifles have them, and almost all .22s. Handguns are heavily regulated here so moderators are not as common on them.
The most commonly used firearm for self defence seems to the .22RF, but I don't think the courts here view silencers in a negative way at all, as we have always had them. In fact, some of the very best ones in the world are made right here....they guys have had a LOT of practice... 🙂.
The other self defence weapon seems to a shotgun of some sort, and there are silencers for those that are bulky, but light (mostly plastic) and a uncannily quiet, especially with trap loads..... They are not common though....
A suppressor can keep the hunter from being the hunted. Situational awareness in the field is critical. One needs to be able to hear if they are being stalked by a predator. It only makes sense and is obvious. In a tactical situation it enables the good guys to be aware and communicate without destroying their hearing.
Currently building my AR10 wild hog rifle with my DeadAir Nomad 30.
They don't get in a hurry. That's for sure . A little over a year now waiting on 2 specifically for hog rifles. Done through silencershop kiosk form 4's. Hopefully soon. Same deal, want them for hearing protection, they're not silent even with a bolt gun. It's crazy.
Great segment. Thanks!
I just can't bring myself to register an NFA item, yet.
Understandable
That last was an interesting point. Wonder if someone involved in a self defense incident and owns a legal NFA item could bring that up as a testament to their character even if the item had not been used in the incident.
I would love to own one and the first gun I would put it on is a bolt gun/non semi auto. I am not an NFA person however and am reluctant to take that step. Peace and Grace to both of you!
I keep hearing that any NFA item affects your rights specifically to search by the ATF. The two most common stories I hear are you allow the ATF to search and inspect any NFA item on demand and that you are required to inform the ATF of where any NFA item is located or stored at all times so they can inspect it at will. I have also heard many say these are myths but never from any source authoritative enough that I would take their word on it.
I keep saying that I will pay for a consultation with an attorney specialized in firearms/criminal code to get an answer but it always gets passed over as just another hoop that is too much trouble to take and I refuse to give up my civil rights / liberties to own an NFA item so it just gets pushed year after year.
Would love to hear what Mr. Wilson and Mr. Ayoob know about these or other NFA myths.
The only thing they can inspect without a warrant are the nfa items in question. However they can use this.waiver to enter your home or place of business for the purpose of inspecting said items. They'll seldom, if ever, do so unless they suspect some crime has been committed. So don't commit crimes. Or be stupid. Have a way of accessing your gun safe without having a bunch of strangers traipsing through your family room.
100% myth I believe most reputable silencer mfg have this in their faq, silencerco as an example. Silencershop, or capital armory the largest nfa dealers in the country I believe have addressed this in video or faq. A silencer tax stamp is literally a Boston tea party style stamp that's on your paperwork. The confusion is from class III SOT dealers. They submit to similar rules although not all you listed and a few you did not.
This is totally how most conversations about how suppressors and the ATF searches goes.
Now I definitely say this "Suppressors Pro & Con" video needs a follow up with a "Suppressors Fact & Fiction" version.
Could cover up the NFA ATF search debate, how many decibels suppressors actually reduce, form 1 vs form 4, solvent traps, cleaning/durability, sharing suppressors across platforms and there are probably more out there too.
@@independentthinker4881 I second this, this stuff needs to rest. The loss of 4th amend. rights is not applicable to the humble quite patriot.
This is 100% myth and gun store rumors. Owning NFA items as a private citizen DOES NOT allow for warrantless searches/inspections of NFA items. Where this myth comes from is if you have an FFL (federal firearms license) to run a gun store THEN the ATF can conduct warrantless searches/inspections. 99.99% of the time when the ATF shows up at a private residence in regards to NFA items is when the actual owner of said items dies and the relatives call the ATF in regards to how to transfer them or get rid of them (which this area of the NFA world is already covered on how to complete).
Love my Quell. Weight does not bother me, I went with the Titanium. It does make the gun a bit dirty but I just need to clean more often.
There is one negative I can think of that was not mentioned. That would be mirage from the suppressor. There are things you can do to help mitigate mirage, and some use cases it's more of an issue than others. It is another aspect of shooting suppressed that needs to be considered.
In Poland you can buy "mufflers" at any gun store with no restrictions. Oddly enough it is technically illegal to actually put one on a weapon though.
Very good information!
I don’t own one yet but am giving it serious thoughts ! I see several pluses to having one !!
Right on
Well, maybe the reason we don't see self defense cases with suppressed firearms is that suppressors are very easy to quickly remove from a firearm.
Depends… they get extremely hot very quickly and then there’s the issue of carbon lock.
It’s also easy to tell if you’ve been shooting suppressed from a particular gun.
Total investment for my $50+/- silencer was about $1,200 and 10 months wait. Time for a change.
Thank you 😊
Welcome!
A suppressor is not simply a benign accessory, it's a force multiplier.
Also, 300 HAM'R leads the way.
Interesting. Thanks.
You're welcome
Another disadvantage which builds on what Bill said: dwell time is effectively increased which is where the extra gas and its accompanying extra fouling comes from; this not only dirties up the action faster it causes greater wear especially in AK pattern rifles which tend to be over gassed to begin with. It is always recommended to have an adjustable gas block to deal with this. Also, AR owners especially tend to get gassed in the face due to openings in the charging handle area. Adjustable gas systems and specialized charging handles should be used to reduce "gas face".
Superlative Arms adjustable/bleed off gas block. I have 2, they reduce excess gas forward away from your face.
Got one, love it.
Thank you guys for yet another great informative vid.
I was just "approved" for my first can a few weeks ago. All I have to say is WOW what a difference on my 5.56, 10.5" SBR. Now I'm looking at another can for my 9mm Scorpion SBR.
These things are like Lays potatoe chips. You can't have just one !
Lays chips 😂
And just yesterday I submitted my form 4 for the 9mm can for my Scorpion. Plus I'm now looking at a
.30cal can for my 308 AR platform rifle.
So it is true, ya just cant have just one like the Lays chips or I've got "can fever" !
I will be amazed if I can ever have a suppressor here in CA. Looking for ways out of here, but don’t know if I will ever get out of CA.
Great advice as usual.
Love my surefire surpressors life is good
Thanks for all the information in this video
My pleasure
It increases accuracy because the gasses get trapped behind the bullet when it leavea the barrel. The weight also contributes to rigidity, which reduces barrel whip/harmonics because of a stiffer barrel.