All you need to know about Infinite Baffle

Поделиться
HTML-код

Комментарии • 83

  • @paulendlicher1409
    @paulendlicher1409 Год назад +17

    Thank you for the obvious time, effort and expense (for the test equipment and software package)and sharing it all; interesting presentation.
    I started installing car audio in Canada in the early 1980s, became an Alpine certified installer in 84 and actually ran the Pioneer Electronics Installation School for the 6 years I worked for them in the 1990s. Have created many "IB" installations starting in 1982. In my experience, the primary reason for IB/Free Air has typically been for space considerations, which leaves the trunk a lot more usable than when using an enclosure.
    Two elemental physics criteria are not mentioned or discussed, I would like to add them here:
    1)When the rear volume exceeds the vehicle interior volume, the "enclosure" design parameters are reversed. The vehicle interior becomes the enclosure, especially with an opening behind the speaker into the atmosphere. Low frequency speakers are influenced equally by the acting air pressure/resistance both in front and behind them and when the interior begins to compress more than the trunk the parameters switch.
    2) The "Quarter Wave" edict, where the vehicle interior maximum dimension is a massive influencer on low frequency propagation. (in many vehicles, facing the drivers in an enclosure towards the rear often/usually works better for that reason.
    Some of the later explanations of speaker overlap/underlap and the crossover suggestions does not mention the effects of using 6 and 12 db/Octave crossovers to induce some phase shift to get the speakers to work better together.
    My two cents worth of thoughts, once again, thank you for taking the time to create this video, great to see IB is still a thing, especially in other markets.

    • @bbriankb1086
      @bbriankb1086 Год назад +3

      I wish I had a friend with knowledge and experience like you, where can I learn more about the "quarter wave edict"?

  • @hypefxx9011
    @hypefxx9011 9 месяцев назад +4

    Best explanation of IB ever. Great job

  • @BMW1M
    @BMW1M Год назад +9

    You covered box colouration in conventional enclosures, but one thing to add to that is: cones are not soundproof - sounds originating inside the enclosure can and will be heard in the front of the driver as they propagate through the cone.
    If you want to test this, just place a bluetooth speaker inside your woofer box and check out just how much sound you can hear coming through the cone..
    IB setups generally result in far less back wave distortion/sound making it through the cone.
    It also becomes a small con in "true IB" setups, because road noise can and will make it's way into the cabin in the same way.

  • @JasonWW2000
    @JasonWW2000 Год назад +4

    At 12:50, the station wagon with the 24" sub actually does use a cover with foam to protect the speaker. They sometimes remove the cover at shows so people can see it better.

  • @Dauntless.steadfast.fortitude
    @Dauntless.steadfast.fortitude Год назад +2

    Thank you
    Very much appreciated
    Great content, video, audio, commentary, tutorial, demo,
    lessons, schematics & humbleness
    You are truly a gifted teacher
    Look forward to more content
    Your contributions simply amazing 🙏

  • @panamaldat
    @panamaldat Год назад +1

    Great video. Lots of detail involved that many will not take the time to explain. Thank you.

  • @xTinBenderX
    @xTinBenderX Год назад +1

    Beautiful explanation of driver selection for IB.

  • @johnd5542
    @johnd5542 10 месяцев назад +1

    Wow thank you so much for the information. Clearly, your put a lot of work and time in this video. I found you channel when I was making pillars, you've been a big help to my recent transitioning to Sq.

  • @bugman72
    @bugman72 Год назад +6

    In the US, it can be a bit more difficult (at least in my limited experience) to find the PA speaker grille material. When I went to IASCA Worlds this past year, I spoke with a couple of people with IB setups. They suggested using snowmobile pre-filter material. It is more easily available in the US and works the same as the PA speaker grille material.

    • @asherdie
      @asherdie 11 месяцев назад

      Google don't work where you're at?

    • @bugman72
      @bugman72 11 месяцев назад +1

      @@asherdie I guess not as good as is does in your area. :) No need to be snarky...just trying to pass along some information to others.

    • @billahler7728
      @billahler7728 8 месяцев назад

      Partsexpress?

    • @eustahijelifetips
      @eustahijelifetips 4 месяца назад

      What is it actually called?

  • @anthonyalvarado9390
    @anthonyalvarado9390 7 месяцев назад +1

    Great job explaining the subject. Thank you.

  • @laimonaskebla4834
    @laimonaskebla4834 Год назад +6

    Nice video Nerijus 👍
    My amarok ib sub’s can play nicely ~10~80hz, couse probably the shape and short cabin and dual ib 6.5” in kicks from 40hz sollid. Very easy integrate and work with it and i don’t need a front sub. I have few diff presets for competition or “daily sq” with differential rear fill where kicks up front plays down to 40 and subs just covers lowest octaves (still can handdle louder than moderate level).
    If i want to go even louder - i crossed at ~80hz (still with good enough sub integration up front). The car shape, install, location, drivers selection dictates big time for SQ

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад

      Are you the owner of the vehicle built by PS Sound shown in this video?

    • @laimonaskebla4834
      @laimonaskebla4834 Год назад

      @@JasonWW2000 Yes - Blue vw amarok, and I’m a Pssound team member. Why ?

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад

      @@laimonaskebla4834 Nice!
      I was wondering if another person built an Amarok with infinite baffle subs. Statistically it seemed unlikely.
      You are a team member? What does that mean? Do car audio competitors form teams?

    • @IPsyChARTz
      @IPsyChARTz 11 месяцев назад +1

      Did not know that you are watching his videos. Your amarok impressed me this weekend in Erkelenz :)

  • @ericjmasters
    @ericjmasters 7 месяцев назад +1

    Amazing video. You gave me so much to think about and plan for. Damn good content.

  • @adamdaniells9521
    @adamdaniells9521 Год назад +2

    BMW all play into the sill, they are Ib not sealed 👍🏼
    Normally the underside has a plastic cover so you space it down a little if you cut through the floor and block off the sill so all pressure stays away from the sill as the plastics flap pretty well from the factory 👍🏼

  • @24cimbo
    @24cimbo Год назад +1

    Nice video!Thanks for clearing things up!!!
    Just want to add on that at 11.00 its my car and I have been speaking to 1of the best installer in the UK and they told me that for 15"woofer I need a 12" hole.

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад

      So they are recommending a hole at least 65% of the speakers area.

  • @edoubleist
    @edoubleist 2 месяца назад +1

    You’re awesome! Thank you!

  • @Rwecosher
    @Rwecosher Год назад

    Hi there. Thanks for the info here. Bit stuck for space to install something as i need the boot. There's a full size spare wheel which i'm considering putting a shallow mount driver into (i need to keep the wheel unfortunately). I measured the volume and may have found a suitable Focal 10" but, after material thickness, clearance for excursion etc etc, i may be lower than the recommended minmum volume so i'm considering trying it open baffle first before sealing. Going to mould fibreglass into the wheel itself. Structurally it will be plywood which i'll try out prior to setting into the fibreglass. The QTS is 0.643 but no excursion info. I already have low expectations with so much compromise involved!

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад +1

      You are essentially describing a spare tire subwoofer design. These are made by JBL, Cerwin Vega and other company's. 5 star car stereo reviewed one a couple months ago and were very impressed. They even took it apart to show the construction. No need to fabricate it yourself.

  • @TheCohesiveGarage
    @TheCohesiveGarage Год назад +1

    This video is such a wealth of knowledge. Thank you. I will share this to friends to explain what I'm doing to my car. Thank you for testing the hole opening effect on sound. I have a 10" hole for my 18" currently in my spare tire well. Seems to work great but was thinking to open it up to 12" I feel better about it now at 10 but if I get a sub that has more excursion I may open it up to 12. What are your thoughts on fabric and foam protections as far as efficiency loss and backpressure ect?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад +1

      If choosing the right materials there will be no loses. Use PA stuff.

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад +1

      According to this video you want the hole to be at least 50% of the cone area. And 18" circle is 250 sq inches, a 10" circle is 80 sq inches. You would want a 13" hole to get 50% of the 18".

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад

      Unless he misspoke and meant 50% of the diameter.

    • @Drunken_Hamster
      @Drunken_Hamster 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@JasonWW2000 He definitely means area. It's why two 12s are only equivalent to one 18, and not a 24.

  • @benparker6415
    @benparker6415 Год назад

    Will the sundown e v4 15 make a good IB Sub ? As far as I can tell it’ll be decent comparing the ts parameters with the fi

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад

      It's not gonne be a great sub for IB, but it will work. You would need alteast a pair of them however.

  • @biggdofficial
    @biggdofficial Год назад

    very nice video, I made an attempt to do a trunk baffle but was informed my subs did not qualify and would sound better in a box with aeroport.
    I'm still interested in getting a IB sub but it looks as though Fi discontinued their IB line. nothing comes close to the Fi IB as far as Qts. any suggestions?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад +2

      One Audio USA is the same just rebranded FI IB department. They have IBv2 andanother one is coming next month.

  • @daviddenton7666
    @daviddenton7666 Год назад +2

    Good day to you. I am from Jamaica, I love your explanations quite clear. What I need to know is the photo in your thumbnail the one with a speaker mounted in front of the gear lever! 😮 Is that a real picture and if so whose car is it and their story of how they did it.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад +1

      There is a comment under the video by the guy who did that.

  • @milesbachelor8747
    @milesbachelor8747 Год назад

    Will a sealed trunk enclosure with a hole in the rear deck give a similar result? Or will that be considered a 4th order?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад

      That will depend on the size of enclosure I guess.

  • @woldemortxyz7996
    @woldemortxyz7996 11 месяцев назад

    Do you know of any 12" midbass drivers that would have rather good sensitivity but also be good for IB?
    Currently I have lavoce waf123.03 mids in my doors. Seem to be a good blend of 500Wrms power handling, 97dB sensitivity and almost 10mm of xmax. But the Qts is very low.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  11 месяцев назад +1

      I would say you need to look at pro audio subwoofers. Even at 12in they will have a light cone and high sensitivity and would be ideal for midbass duties. Look at some quality brands like SB Audience, FaitalPro and others.

  • @Drunken_Hamster
    @Drunken_Hamster 8 месяцев назад

    Yo, when you loaded up the response of that FI 315 in IB I had a *_FIT_* because as a guy that likes 150+db of bass, that's EXACTLY the kind of response that I want... What's the mounting depth on that, and how much space would the cone need in a down-firing, "slot-loaded" blow-through style setup in a single cab 2009 Ford Ranger (compact pickup truck)?
    I have about 16.5 inches (42cm) of total depth in my cargo box to work with, and I can fit three 15s across the span of said cargo box, which is what I plan to do since I want to maximize bass SPL while still having crazy good SQ.
    I'm not sure I'll be able to do IB midbass due to how claustrophobic my kicks are AND the fact that I have a clutch pedal AND a floor-mounted parking brake, but I might still try to do it, regardless.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  8 месяцев назад +1

      Mounting depth is about 11 in plus another 2 for xmax, so I think you are solid👍

    • @Drunken_Hamster
      @Drunken_Hamster 8 месяцев назад

      @@RAW-CAt It's pushing it! I might have to make the slot angled, like a manifold style, for the motors to clear my bed cover. They're gonna be inverted since my max cut height on the cab is about 10 inches, and after doing the math, I need at least a 3-inch air gap at full excursion (roughly 4.5" including excursion, but the baffle will be 1.5" thick and the subs inverted, so) to have enough clearance to prevent compression or w/e.
      Don't know if I'll have to treat the two or three sub version as each needing their own 3 inches of gap (so 6-9 inches total?) but if so, then I'll definitely have to make it an angled manifold slot-loading/half-clamshell thing. with like a 6-8" opening on the cab side, and whatever gap at the back that will let me angle the subs enough to avoid the bed cover while still letting me get a tool on the mounting bolts.
      What do you reckon two or three Fi IB315 on roughly the rated power will do SPL-wise if cabin gain starts at roughly 110hz due to my cab being so small?

  • @bosshawg7427
    @bosshawg7427 Год назад +1

    I tend to often object to using home audio rules to car audio because of major room gain differences thus I don't necessarily agree with this "true IB" that gets used often. No strikes against anyone suggesting to cut open a car, but the goal of any IB is to design is to choose a driver where the rear space is higher than Vas ad to not raise Qtc over Qts, yes. That said, this is easily acheived IF you don't use gigantic or super high Vas subs. Many stock stereos achieve such with a single sub albeit output may not be what an aftemarket stereo is caoable of. So, it is very possible though not often practiced to design an aftemarket uograde that achieves a "trunk baffle" setup without raising Q over the applied sub.. Still, overall Q (final response) affects both true and trunk which makes either somewhat of a misnomer. Too often, the application excludes careful selection of drivers to achieve suchz instead just opt for ones with so much beef to where cutting open a car is required to fall under such. Not practical.
    As a side note... test subs to confirm parameters. The Ultimax and many others may not measure out what most think. That would be a good plot twist

  • @bobgodd
    @bobgodd Год назад +1

    I'm sure you didn't intend this but I fear people will steer away from IB if they think they'll also need a front sub. I've done a lot of cutting on my car already but I draw the line at front sub lol. Anyway, great video as always

    • @adamdaniells9521
      @adamdaniells9521 Год назад +1

      It is a fact of life with boot Ib woofers for the best performance, so I think it’s worth mentioning, if I couldn’t do a front woofer I wouldn’t do an Ib setup for Sq being very honest, the whole system has to work perfectly together to get the best results 👍🏼

    • @bobgodd
      @bobgodd Год назад

      Perhaps it has a lot to do with driver and application. I can play my parcel shelf sub well into 80hz and it does it well.. But maybe if it was all the way in the trunk I'd be singing a different tune.

    • @davidtimmerman3121
      @davidtimmerman3121 Месяц назад

      i've done away with that need by using good, stout midbases (dynaudio mw 170s) that are strong down to 50hz in the kicks.

  • @SheikhN-bible-syndrome
    @SheikhN-bible-syndrome Год назад

    Dont you have less cone displacement on the back side then you do from the front side?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад

      In IB it's equal.

    • @SheikhN-bible-syndrome
      @SheikhN-bible-syndrome Год назад

      @@RAW-CAt that makes no since IB has nothing to do with surface area and the front of the cone has more surface area then the back

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад

      ​@@SheikhN-bible-syndromeThe rear of the cone does have the same area, you just can't see it. The air behind the dust cap for instance still gets pushed in and out.
      If you mean displacement as in the magnet displacing air space that will not make a noticeable difference.

  • @neal00
    @neal00 Год назад

    Can you please explain why you don't want to cut the peak to flatten and extend the curve. Thanks

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад

      It all depends how much you are cutting. Cutting too much you are loosing a lot of headroom and it's just wastewull in my opinion.

    • @bobgodd
      @bobgodd Год назад +1

      Also cutting too much can kill dynamics, at least in my experience.

    • @BMW1M
      @BMW1M Год назад +1

      If using a quality DSP, how does cutting differ at all to lowering gain?
      There should not be any dynamic range compression happening, surely?

    • @GarryDavidson157
      @GarryDavidson157 Год назад

      ​@@bobgodd it is true

  • @LatvianVideo
    @LatvianVideo 6 дней назад

    when talking about xmax and bottoming out, going past xmax (linear excursion) wont make it bottom out, but reaching xmech (mechanical excursion) will make it bottom out.

  • @rts100x5
    @rts100x5 Год назад +3

    IB24 FOR THE WIN

  • @benjaminkotrla943
    @benjaminkotrla943 Год назад +1

    Why not split the difference? Turn the gain down on the IB sub about 5-8 db, and then use the DSP to cut the IB sub and keep the 45-80 hz region?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад

      In my case, the gain on all amplifiers are minimum. Can't turn them lower.

    • @benjaminkotrla943
      @benjaminkotrla943 Год назад +2

      @@RAW-CAt No, No.
      You said you turned the gain down to bring the sub in-line with targets, but then you were way under target in the 45-80 Hz area. You also said that the sub was essentially identical in this area vs a non-infinite baffle sub. (the reason why you say you need a front sub)
      I am saying, don't turn the amp gain so low, use the DSP to (partially) pull the bass down in the sub 45 Hz area, and then your 45-80Hz response will be much closer.

    • @JoshFischer
      @JoshFischer Месяц назад +1

      @@benjaminkotrla943 This. Also, you can use EQ to boost in the area where the drop off occurs because you've pulled the overall gain down so much. If you pull overall gain down by -8db and boost in one area +6db, you will be just fine. This will still net a -2db cut in the region where you boosted. The amp will still be below clipping assuming it was originally setup correctly prior to the cuts and the sub is capable of outputting at that volume as you can see from your original measurements.

  • @adrianadr3821
    @adrianadr3821 8 месяцев назад

    Im here for the free cookies !🍪🍪🍪

  • @h.phillip5245
    @h.phillip5245 3 месяца назад

    Could you just mount in a shallow box with a port

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  3 месяца назад

      Small ported box will have a sharp roll off and no low end extension.

  • @vasilemazilu7342
    @vasilemazilu7342 Год назад +1

    15:30❤ 🔊

  • @MikeB1972
    @MikeB1972 Год назад

    I don't think I've seen anyone mention it, wouldn't true IB be audible outside of the vehicle? Idk if other cars in traffic or pedestrians wanna hear my mid bass and subs lol
    then again maybe I just worry too much 🤷‍♂

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Год назад +3

      I actually have a video about that😉
      ruclips.net/video/kxa028XaUnw/видео.html

    • @MikeB1972
      @MikeB1972 Год назад +1

      ​@@RAW-CAtThanks! I'll definitely check that out. RUclips never told me you replied lol

    • @duroxkilo
      @duroxkilo 3 месяца назад +2

      yes it can get loud outside the vehicle plus road/traffic noise will get in the vehicle as well.
      people don't realize how much research is put into car acoustics, mainly isolating the passengers from certain road noises.
      some frequencies tend to tire us more than others and it doesn't need to be loud...
      (in short our brains are 'tuned' to pay more attention to certain things and when noise match the tuning, the brains work over-time trying to decode the input signal. because it's noise there's no conclusive result and the brain tries again, etc. it results in something similar to 'attention fatigue', when you try to stay focused/study for too long)

    • @davidtimmerman3121
      @davidtimmerman3121 Месяц назад

      @@duroxkilo main reason i use the "trunk baffle" set-up, no road noise.

  • @csj9619
    @csj9619 8 месяцев назад +1

    Qts of .07 or higher is desireable for IB applications. If driver's manufacturer doesn't show Thiel/Small perameters, stay away.

  • @larrygaines7462
    @larrygaines7462 Месяц назад

    Very simple correct cabinet more bass. Cars have cabinet gain or loss and a resonant structure . Strike the steering wheel to find it then build your box s accordingly usually turn it away from the front of car. Phase is important. Amateur keep studying and ask some pros also

  • @veelink6345
    @veelink6345 3 месяца назад

    So long story short, IB will play loud and clean with lower power and is king for SQ but in a sealer you can dump a lot of power and pound harder at high volumes without hitting Xmax on your drivers and is a SQL set up, more for what 99.8% of people want when installing a system, you need to be hardcore into the SQ competition scene or just have no room for a box to consider it.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  3 месяца назад +1

      In sealed you HAVE to dump a lot of power to get the same output as in IB. If using the same driver, output in sealed or IB is the same. The difference is efficiency. Ported us a different thing.

  • @gxiong3917
    @gxiong3917 6 месяцев назад

    So basically like your STOCK SPEAKER SETUP.
    SMH

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  6 месяцев назад +1

      Yes, the principle is the same. However the install and location is what makes the difference😉

  • @constantinelheman
    @constantinelheman Год назад

    shame to see that M2 Competition being butchered like that.

    • @JasonWW2000
      @JasonWW2000 Год назад +2

      I don't think the owner is concerned about how others feel. They know some will like it and some won't. You can't please everybody. Lol.

  • @aaronmcneal1698
    @aaronmcneal1698 10 месяцев назад +1

    For those over protective parents