Pat Metheny Group First Circle: The Rhythmic Pattern
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Pat Metheny First Circle 1984. A comment from film composer Jerry Goldsmith made Pat Metheny try something new with his composition workflow, resulting in the composition of main parts of First Circle. In this video, I go into the composition process and the harmony of the central theme.
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One of the best musical compositions of the last 50 years.
They have definitely done what other composers - like Steve Reich couldn't. That is to be in touch with popular music (in terms of form, melody, and harmony) and then elevate it to a high artistic level.
I agree
Without a doubt.
200
I’ve always considered “First Circle” to be the most satisfying and complete composition I have ever encountered.
And as a percussionist, the rhythmic layering and complexity is so addictive.
Talking about the rhythmic pattern (with its unusual 11/8 time signature), one of the things that makes it so legendary to me is that the hand-clapping at the beginning (and so the whole tune) starts with a pause, so you are "fooled" by the hand-clapping that the weak beat is the strong one, and vice-versa. So, when the "single note melody" played by Pat on the guitar starts on the true first/strong beat, followed by Pedro's singing the main melody, the whole thing seems to become a totally different pattern! This has a truly displacing and somewhat mesmerizing effect, which makes it very difficult to follow or learn for the untrained ear (like mine...), and at the same time so fascinating to listen to. The same happens with the Lyle's melody over the Pat's solo, I think, and again on the hand-clapping at the end (which makes one end up with his hands hanging idle, cause the tune actually ends before he can clap for the last time! :D)
(Ah, I forgot: thank you so much for sharing!)
Thanks, Stefano. Yeah, there's something about that ending and a sense of a 'missing clap' - that's a good observation! :)
Hi Stefano. I actually meet PM in 1985 when our Drum Corps (Concord Blue Devils) played First Circle in our repertoire. Its in 22/8 and to this day I have the original clapping score we used as the battery with 22/8 PM written on it.
the missing clap is just clapping on all the upbeats
@@christommygun2393 yes, on the score it's 22/8, it seems I forgot this and simplified too much. However, the relevant thing here is that the timing is uneven, so 11/4 or 11/8 seemed to underscore better this feature. Thank you for pointing it out.
This has become my favorite song of all time. I tear up at the end every time I listen to it. I am 74.
Reed, me too. Many of his songs get to me like that. Since there are no lyrics, there is something visceral about the way the notes are put together, wrapped around the liver and gut that causes such a profound reaction! LOL
❤ Amen. It's so inspired.
In P.M. music I feel a constant sense of tension (where I am? where are we heading to?) and then resolution (oh I'm back home...which isn't the one I used to be before). This is what I like besides technical (but useful) considerations...
First Circle is an amazing composition....but I like also the "easier" Last Train Home...and "Close to Home" (by Lyle Mays)...
It is no accident that I have used the noun "home" lots of times here...this music sounds to me like a JOURNEY to WHAT WE ARE...to WHERE we belong to...
It absolutely does, Giovanni.
..i still cant clap along with the intro!!
took me a few years
Beautifully explained and beautifully played.
I first heard this song and thought Pat Metheny was our Mozart! I still think this every time I hear this song. Very nicely explained (in both videos)!!
Thanks Ronnie! :)
Fascinating, I could watch Dr Guy all day!
Thank you! Im glad you’re liking these Metheny/Mays videos! 😊
For years I cracked my head trying to figure out this song!!! My all time favorite Metheny song. Thanks for the video.
Sure Wilson - my absolute pleasure!!! :)
Guy,
This popped up in my feed today. One man cover of First Circle. Very enjoyable.
Enjoyed this very much!
I’m glad to hear that Cadiz! Thank you 😊
I hear Pedro Aznar singing over this :)
R.I.P Lyle......
Such a great loss to our continuum, peace.
I love this tune!!! Want to hear the chord progression over and over again.
It's amazing. I wanted to learn these chords for a long time :)
Holy smokes that demonstration is awesome. Thank you. Brilliant. Any age. Music lives. Peace.
Thank so much sir to make Pat and Lyle's music that inspired us through the years with deep emotions so easy to understand .
I have been in love with this piece for a long time. Yes, the piece is in 11/8. This can be seen in Pat's book of compositions. It starts on the &1 not 1. The explanation given in this video is really interesting to me. It does come out to 22 pulses. However its writen as the 8th note getting one so, count half as fast.
In the 1970s I watched the Norton-Harvard lectures by Leonard Bernstein on PBS. Although I was not a musician, I thoroughly enjoyed them. Your musical analysis of Pat Metheny/Lyle Mays First Circle reminded me of portions of those lectures especially the lecture where Mr. Bernstein analyses sections of Igor Stravinsky’s Right of Spring. Thank you for sharing your insightful analysis. I can tell you enjoy teaching.
Bernstein was a truly great and inspiring teacher, he's also my favorite conductor. I'm so glad you enjoyed this one Mario - thank you!
I like this song more after this lecture! Thank you.
Thank you for watching! I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
This music is full of magic, full of positive power, love it so much.
Agreed 110%! 😊
That is some serious music right there. I always love your playing Guy, and hearing you explain it is like a drink of water in the desert. So impressive. Perhaps it's because on one hand I don't know one damn thing about music, but on the other hand something in me knows everything about music as I am passionate about what I like and what sounds good to me. PMG hits that nerve every time. After 40 yrs it still sounds fresh and current. Thanks Guy!
Of course you know music. You’ve heard/seen it in many different forms - concerts, movies scores theater, TV, radio, games. You know how it behaves. PMG is intricate, multi layered yet always clear. Great music.
Thanks so much for this brilliant analysis especially your thoughts about the alternative progressions that Pat chose not to use! Each time he seemed to have taken the "road less travelled". It's the progressions he uses that makes this piece so interesting to listen to. However, there is a name missing from this analysis and that is Lyle Mays. Do you think It's Lyle who has composed these progressions because they seem for me to fall more in the sphere of the piano rather than the guitar and also they seem very typical of Lyle's compositional approach. Listening to the PMG live on a number of occasions you can hear these in Lyle's solo's with the group. BUT having said that what it is so clear is that it is the combination of these two brilliant musicians is a synergy that is quite exceptional. I am revisiting Pat and Lyle's work after some years of listening to other musicians and find it still exceptionally brilliant including of course the other musicians they played with over the years. Finally, I wonder if in his work with the pianist Gwilym Simcock (on the 2020 CD "From This Place"), Pat has found another almost perfect fit?
Thanks again.
PM has no peer when it comes to sense of melody, body of work, tenure, curiosity, virtuosity, and whatever else it is that made him the most important musical genius of our time.
Pat is undoubtedly great, but let’s not forget Chick Corea. Also worth mentioning that a lot of the music of the Pat Metheny group was composed by Lyle Mays.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Yeah, I absolutely love Chick and Lyle, but to me PM is greatest today. Too bad we can’t look up who’s the best, that would resolve about 50% of the arguments on here. The “best” is my favorite at the time.
This is pure gold. Instant subscribe. That parallel to Close to You was something I always felt but could never explain - until now.
Hey Kamil! Thank you! :)
I love major 3rd and minor 3rd modulations. Good teaching Doc!
Thanks Derryl. This melody is brilliant. Notice how in both cases - the G major and the E major, the tonic is the last chord of the progression.
I call it a "shy" tonic that reveals itself only a the end.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Yes, great! I believe Holdsworth does this in Funnels if I'm not mistaken.
Pat Metheny and Jerry Goldsmith working together....never knew, but makes it even more awesome!
The film score by Jerry goldsmith sounds really good, by the way :)
Beautiful soul 💖
☺️🙏
I listened to this in 1985 and couldn't go back. It's funny how music that speaks to you can really alter your life and perception. I travelled far to see PMG in the day. Now with Lyle gone a year ago it's hard to imagine PMG could never happen again.
Sorry for just finding this..amazing breakdown
Thanks Alan! Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Hi, that's an interesting analysis and observation of the syncopated rhythm(s) that Metheny employed. What struck me when I first heard this work was the influence of Steve Reich.
Interesting but I can intuitively understand now what made you refer it to Steve Reich. Yes. :)
I agree that it’s minimalistic but the rhythms are syncopated just mixed meter. There’s a difference.
@@sethwexler6910 Hi Seth, syncopated in the sense that certain beats in the bar have been emphasized. The main rhythm employed is atypical and quite convoluted, hence my use of the word "syncopated". A simpler rhythm could have been employed but, of course the piece would have been far less engaging. Syncopation is often associated with rhythmic alteration and, if I remember correctly, the main (opening) rhythm doesn't change much throughout the piece. So, yes I take your point but I think the use of the word "syncopation" would be apt in this instance. As for Steve Reich's influence, it's clear but it is one of a myriad of influences that Metheny and Mays employed in their compositions. Reich kind of returned the favour, if you will, with the powerful influence of Jazz in his music and the Reich/Metheny collaboration on "Electric Counterpoint".
This is so simple concept but at first glance it looks so complex amd complicated. Wow thanks for this video I'll incorporate this concept in my playing
Thank you, I’m so glad to hear that! Using it in your own music creation can be the best way of internalizing it!
Your videos are so rich of informations thank you
Thanks Malek! I’m so glad you like them 🙏
Gorgeous
Great stuff, Dr! Keep it coming 👌🏻
Thanks Steve!
Amazing! thank you for this!
indeed, Pat has cited Bacharach as one of his influences
.
Allan Koay Absolutely.
Great analysis
Thanks Tom!
Brilliant! Finally an explanation of the ambiguous rhythm’ is there a transcription of the score for solo piano.?
this is the best composition ever!
One day I will maybe get tired of listening to it, but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon :)
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer NEVER :) I`m listening it almost everyday since it was written. I`m pure "Methenyst" for 20 years approx.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer First Circle & Have you heard are incredible for me
Only after your analysis that I realize this piece is so interesting!
You’ve outdone yourself on this series!
Great work👍 Probably would be asking too much for a breakdown of Lyle’s solo too?
Thanks, Mike. Lyle's way of crafting a solo deserve more than one video, and I might make one at some point, yes.
I just realized that when I listen to the main part of First Circle (This guy plays it at 2:35) my body will automatically react by closing my eyes. This guy's body reaction is exactly just like mine. Is it only me and this guy? Or anybody here have the same body reaction as ours?
'VERY effective teaching/study! ...i've listened to another once but his was just a few minutes long.
IF I can get through this beautiful forest to the other side, I think I'll feel good walking through it!
....and Jerry Goldsmith, DEEP
This has been the first introduction to PMG to my kids, from the vid, always called the Birdy song, if you have seen the DVD you will know. Thank you for breaking this down. This has always been a fav.
Oh yeah I’ve seen this video :)
this guy knows
תודה רבה!!
תודה לך! שמח שאהבת!
Perfect, Guy. Thank you. Much love!
Thanks, Jacek! 🤗
' why I keep trying... or have I just not brave to begin?
NICE catch!
one of my favorites...thank you!! superbrilliant analysis as ever!!
Thank you so much, Maria! :)
Awesome!
Thanks Tiago :)
Really interesting thinking of this being in G rather than C. I thought of it as being in C because not only does the main theme start in C, but it's also the first note of the piece. On the other hand, the piece ends on G. I think it's a G5 chord that implies major? The last chords of the piece are incredible, and I hope you will explain what's going on there!
Matt, The thing is, Pat wrote the interlude in C, and the main theme in G. What's confusing is that the main theme also starts with a Cmaj7. But as you follow the course of it, you realize that this time the C is the IV degree. I think that starting it not from the tonic home gives that haunting quality to it...
Lyle matched a vocal intro in C. So that's a lot of music in C at the beginning. But as the rest of the piece rely on the main theme, the focus moves to G. (They don't go back to the interlude or the opening).
And those chords at the end... maybe my favorite ending in all music history. I'll talk about it when in the video about the entire tonal plan.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Thank you for the explanation. It makes complete sense to me now. It's a great way of starting the piece in C and subtly moving it to G.
I can't wait for that video where you talk about the end. Pat and Lyle really wrote fantastic endings. While they used fade-out endings to great effect in a number of tunes, they are often disappointing when compared to a fully composed ending. I really hate it when Pat solos over a fade and I can't hear where the solo is going, like in Yolanda You Learn and Red Sky. If they're going to play the tunes live they need an ending anyway. I suppose they already had a lot to come up with for an album, and a fade is better than a poor ending.
That’s probs because honestly C lydian is a very ambiguous mode to be in. It’s a very safe place to be musically and it adds a different kind of atmosphere to a piece of music. And it allows for all those modulations to E Major or A Major. It’s honestly a very cool song to study for modal harmonics IMO.
GÉNIAL
Wow. Thank you.
As usual very accurate. I notice every time I play a PMG song where are the major/minor modulation. In Phase Dance the Bm7/Bbmaj7 is a D/Dm modulation. In First Circle the G/E is a Em/E modulation and there are plenty of that stuff in the PMG compositions.
Gracias genio esa música es una maravilla 👏👏👏👏
Thanks!nice video.
excelente doc!!!
Muchas Gracias!
Grácias por esto Dr
No way... I have been playing my self-taught (ie Ear transcription) for 25 years... just heard the BB within it... nice
Thanks for a great analysis.
Thank you! :)
Nice👏👏👏👏
Very nice👍👍👍👏👏👏👏😀
Thank you Giuseppe! 😊
inspiring!
clap-clap clap clap-clap clap clap clap-clap clap-clap clap clap ...
it's very surprising that some seasoned musicians can't follow First Circle's clapping. i got it after only a few listens.
Allan Koay Very simple: you listen.
DR Guy, hello from Greece...wpnderfull job...
Hello Sakis! Thank you very much - I'm glad to see you here! :)
well done Guy!
Thanks Sam! :)
When are u gonna release an album - Piano versions of Metheny tunes....?
I must say, I love playing these tunes but when I release an album I like to write my own music. Like on this album here: www.allaboutjazz.com/landing-niogi-alessa-records-jazz-and-art-review-by-mark-sullivan.php
Beautiful performance and commentary.
Carpenters is my favorite,too!
I wonna see your performance. Wow!
Your videos are amazing. I want to ask You if you can analize the song "If I could" from Pat. I think it is one of his most beautiful pieces. Thanks a lot for the knowledge you keep spreading
Thank you so much! That’s a wonderful song! My Pat Metheny/Lyle Mays project is completed for now. Check out the videos I made on The Bat, a wonderful ballad from the album Offramp.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer thanks for your suggestion. That is a great song too
I will check it
...you are carrying the legacy of orijginal collective.
Ah'd been to a few other teachings of this composition.
The element of your gentle soul through, (until tecognized) a rugged domain remains almost UNN-believable!
I tried doing the clapping at other times unsuccessfully, and your explanation was helpful and did the trick. But it's really hard. I wonder if Pat's musicians had to practise it...
Be sure both Pat and the rest of the band practiced it. It was a new rhythm pattern that needed to be absorbed!
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composerI am practicing it your way, at 75% of speed and my brain is not use to this complexity , huge thanks !!! ✌️🍻✌️🎼🍻
35 שנה, אחרי ששמעתי לראשונה את האלבום בהופעה חיה, שהיווה שיר הערש שלי במשך תקופה ארוכה ויושב לי בפלייליסט כשאני על האופניים החשמליות, אני פוגשת את הניתוח שלך.
לא אכביר במילים לגבי קוצר הניתוח (לטעמי), אבל כן אודה לך, על שבכלל טרחת, העונג היה כולו שלי.
ברכות.
נ.ב. לא בדקתי את שאר הסירטונים שלך, אך אודה לך אם תואיל להקדיש זמן לניתוח של straight on red
אהלן! תודה רבה על התגובה!
יש 4 סרטים על first circle! :)
עשיתי כל כך הרבה על הלהקה הזאת, אני עכשיו עובד על מלחינים אחרים ותופעות אחרות. אבל יש לי בקנה עוד אחד על פט.ולגבי Straight on Red זה קטע אהוב ובאמת חשבתי עליו בשלב מסויים. זה קטע שפט מתאר כסיוט מבחינת השילוב של כלים אלקטרוניים - אבל.. הם עשות את זה :)
the clap at the beginning is a flamenco? (a friend said that in Sevilla every one in the crowd clapped in time)
Seems like Flamenco influenced - the Idea of clapping on the 2nd eight-note of the beat :)
Yummy. So yummy.
whos playing that goddamed tambourine off camera, got me bugged
1:21
I really wish you hadn't made the connection to Burt Bacharach. Regardless of how apt it might be, Close To You is cringingly sappy, whereas First Circle opens into something transcendent. IMO.
Yet I did, it's a great song 😉
Dr. Guy, how to learn the clapping 😉? You're to fast haha
I learned them slowly, I'm not good at math :)
count: 1-2-3 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 1-2
1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2 1-2
3+2+3+2+2+3+3+2+2=22
Claro. son dos grupos de 11
@@hugocra Es un grupo de 12 y otro de 10! :)
The question mark was because after Pat invented the pattern,
he said he "was looking for solutions to the question the pattern seemed to be asking"
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer What a great way to write music! Come up with a question, then answer it. I'm surprised it took Pat until 1990 to write a tune called "Question and Answer"! I think that by coming up with such a unique rhythm for First Circle, some of the piece writes itself. The main theme and Lyle's intro and interlude follow the pattern Pat came up with. But Pat was creative enough to change the meters to add and release tension. He changes the meters in this piece like others change chords.
Dr. Guy Shkolnik I was just playing around. I happen to be flying back from a trip and the passenger next to me was saying how their favorite number was 22. I recommended listening to First Circle 🕶
You overcomplicate. It’s a 6 followed by a 5. All you show here is the first subdivision of the basic pattern. It falls so easily into that “11” when you think of it in terms of the quarter note (I assume the meters in 6/4 + 5/4). I know you’re trying to capture the clapping pattern, but it’s just simple subdivision and accents.
Wow. Thank you.
Thank you!