When I was a member, I was called to be a service missionary with the Addiction Recovery Program. I served in the calling for 4 years, which was a long time but found it interesting that the number of members attending due to viewing pornography. I was aware pornography was not identified as an addiction under the American Psychiatric Association so I didn’t feel it was a necessarily valid part of the program. All of those who were “struggling”’with pornography were there due to being caught or feeling shame due to being a member. Many declared themselves “cured” after 12 steps, only to be back after a few months….as with any addiction, the only way to start recovery is to do it for yourself, not out of fear of others. A licensed therapist can be so much more helpful than the church in helping identify if you are truly addicted or not.
Good points! Anybody out there who's using their "addiction" to persuade other people to do certain actions (such as what Jeffrey Epstein did) -- well, that's a definite sign of an addiction.
In experience with my friends who were "addicted", the addiction stopped after they left the church and got into therapy. Do they still enjoy some AM on occasion...some do, and it's not a problem.
@@GenerallyUnquotable this is a pipe dream of course, but it would have been so much better if the leaders didn’t equate things such as self gratification or doing “stuff” as a teen or adult to leading toward eternal damnation or equivalent to murder. 🙄
My tbm dad was a very abusive person. Aside from being physically and emotionally abusive, he was also the "I AM PREISTHOOD, HEAR ME ROAR" type, as my mom would say. But starting when I was 18 months old, I was diagnosed with type 1 juvenile onset diabetes. And seeing as I was young and my body wasn't mature enough to handle it. I frequently was very sick and in dire need of hospitalization. But he would not let me go to the hospital. My mother recounted years later how he said, "I gave him a blessing, he'll be fine, and if he isn't, then you didn't have enough faith!" My mom even recalled how, on one occasion, he put his recliner in front of the front door and sat there cleaning his gun to keep her from taking me to the hospital when I had a seizure. He sat there all night. My mom took me upstairs and held me all night while staying on the phone with my doctor.
Oh wow. I am so sorry that both you and your mother went through that. The teachings of the church can lead people to feel empowered to abuse because with god as their backing they feel justified. The church can indeed give people the green light to harm others.
@@GenerallyUnquotable Thank you, and sadly, yes, they do! And then they try to blame the victims, justify or defend their own actions. And spend millions of dollars defending themselves rather than admit they screwed up. I was lucky in that my own bishop actually did the right thing and helped report the abuse and even arranged for us to stay with other members for our own safety. He also fought to obtain church discipline for my dad even though some leaders in the stake didn't want to discipline him at all. However, that same told me years later that if my dad repented, there would've been nothing he could do.
@@jonjahr3403 The church can aid good people in doing bad things...which is why it can be so insidious. There would've been nothing he could do? That makes me sick to think about.
Thanks for your reporting on the BYU porn study. That was very interesting. And i liked whhat you highlighted on the wearing of garments by female members. So thanks.
Those who wear garments and say they *like* wearing them, i.e., it's *flattering* are kidding themselves. I hate wearing my garments and Heavenly Father knows how uncomely they make me feel. My Stake President understood why I feel this way. Thank goodness for redesigned garments. *God knows what his daughters are going through*
My dear, sweet tbm hubby thinks gawd will work everything out later (thus he doesn't worry about my leaving mormonism). If that's the case, and it's also true that we can just do people's temple work after they die, why in the bloody hell does ANYONE need to live mormonism right now? I guess there has to be someone faithful to do all that temple work. 🤣
I thought about this even as a child. You get a free ticket to heaven if you are lucky enough not to know about the church. Luke, then what’s the point? I wished I hadn’t been born into the church because now I had a long list of stuff I had to do and if I didn’t do it well enough, I was out. But if I hadn’t know, I didn’t need to do a single thing to be saved.
It so frustrates me that intelligent thought and reasoning equals apostasy and stupidity. It looks like the membership of the church is going to push out all the honest real thinkers that could save it! I am really tired of being treated like I am stupid, deceived, and a misled nobody. Then again I do not think I would much enjoy the attention of these “do-gooders” either!
I noticed that my nextdoor neighbors quit going to church. Should I bake a batch of oatmeal cookies? lol I took a break from all the podcasts but kept a few to follow. I got engaged to someone I have known practically all my life. We are sharing our event on New Year's Day 2025 At my parents winter home in Saint George. I feel so grown up. Your podcast has helped me to think of things with a sense of humor. Big Hugs!
Will the oatmeal cookies have chocolate chips or raisins? Because if they will have raisins it might feel like a threat. 😆 Congratulations on your upcoming event, I'm so happy for you.
Great job with this today I was really inspired I even went and read the psychology today article with the addendum at the bottom from Willoughby he actually did a beautiful job of the Mormon doublespeak apologist. I think he thought that the writer was leaning heavily on the fleshy arm of intellect.😅
I could not, in good conscience, read that part out loud. To me it felt like he was trying to sound very intellectual so people would take his feelings as fact.
This is a fabulous episode! The BYU research on adult materials is fundamental, so much so that I think it would be a threat to the church. I love it when BYU produces academically credible research. Funny that the most damaging psychological aspect of adult materials, is not the adult materials, but rather if there are limiting religious beliefs that they are viewed through… another reason the church should denounce the book, visions of glory! The garment topic is excellent, can we pinpoint the perspective that the only factor to consider in wearing garments should be whether a woman wants to…?
Thank you for doing the show. I appreciate watching you dissect the nonsense that is "THE CHURCH" You wouldn't happen to appreciate older exmormon hippie types, would ya? 😉 🌎🫂☮️❤️
When I was a member, I was called to be a service missionary with the Addiction Recovery Program. I served in the calling for 4 years, which was a long time but found it interesting that the number of members attending due to viewing pornography. I was aware pornography was not identified as an addiction under the American Psychiatric Association so I didn’t feel it was a necessarily valid part of the program. All of those who were “struggling”’with pornography were there due to being caught or feeling shame due to being a member. Many declared themselves “cured” after 12 steps, only to be back after a few months….as with any addiction, the only way to start recovery is to do it for yourself, not out of fear of others. A licensed therapist can be so much more helpful than the church in helping identify if you are truly addicted or not.
Good points! Anybody out there who's using their "addiction" to persuade other people to do certain actions (such as what Jeffrey Epstein did) -- well, that's a definite sign of an addiction.
In experience with my friends who were "addicted", the addiction stopped after they left the church and got into therapy. Do they still enjoy some AM on occasion...some do, and it's not a problem.
@@GenerallyUnquotable this is a pipe dream of course, but it would have been so much better if the leaders didn’t equate things such as self gratification or doing “stuff” as a teen or adult to leading toward eternal damnation or equivalent to murder. 🙄
The Exponent article author is my sister! I'm texting her right now to tell her that you used her article. Yay!
I LOVED her article. I hope it gets tons of traffic.
Even though I left the church 17 years ago, I wore my first sleeveless shirt this year. Indoctrination is deep.
And how did it feel?
My tbm dad was a very abusive person. Aside from being physically and emotionally abusive, he was also the "I AM PREISTHOOD, HEAR ME ROAR" type, as my mom would say. But starting when I was 18 months old, I was diagnosed with type 1 juvenile onset diabetes. And seeing as I was young and my body wasn't mature enough to handle it. I frequently was very sick and in dire need of hospitalization. But he would not let me go to the hospital. My mother recounted years later how he said, "I gave him a blessing, he'll be fine, and if he isn't, then you didn't have enough faith!" My mom even recalled how, on one occasion, he put his recliner in front of the front door and sat there cleaning his gun to keep her from taking me to the hospital when I had a seizure. He sat there all night. My mom took me upstairs and held me all night while staying on the phone with my doctor.
Oh wow. I am so sorry that both you and your mother went through that. The teachings of the church can lead people to feel empowered to abuse because with god as their backing they feel justified. The church can indeed give people the green light to harm others.
@@GenerallyUnquotable Thank you, and sadly, yes, they do! And then they try to blame the victims, justify or defend their own actions. And spend millions of dollars defending themselves rather than admit they screwed up. I was lucky in that my own bishop actually did the right thing and helped report the abuse and even arranged for us to stay with other members for our own safety. He also fought to obtain church discipline for my dad even though some leaders in the stake didn't want to discipline him at all. However, that same told me years later that if my dad repented, there would've been nothing he could do.
@@jonjahr3403 The church can aid good people in doing bad things...which is why it can be so insidious. There would've been nothing he could do? That makes me sick to think about.
@@GenerallyUnquotable Exactly!
Thanks for your reporting on the BYU porn study. That was very interesting. And i liked whhat you highlighted on the wearing of garments by female members. So thanks.
Reminds me of the poor guys that Judy Hilderbutt (or whatever her name is) convinced them they were sex addicts.
And now that she is in jail, there are MANY church approved therapists waiting in the wings to take her spot.
Those who wear garments and say they *like* wearing them, i.e., it's *flattering* are kidding themselves. I hate wearing my garments and Heavenly Father knows how uncomely they make me feel. My Stake President understood why I feel this way. Thank goodness for redesigned garments. *God knows what his daughters are going through*
I never liked them either. Taking them off was a huge part of me healing from disordered eating.
My dear, sweet tbm hubby thinks gawd will work everything out later (thus he doesn't worry about my leaving mormonism). If that's the case, and it's also true that we can just do people's temple work after they die, why in the bloody hell does ANYONE need to live mormonism right now? I guess there has to be someone faithful to do all that temple work. 🤣
I thought about this even as a child. You get a free ticket to heaven if you are lucky enough not to know about the church. Luke, then what’s the point? I wished I hadn’t been born into the church because now I had a long list of stuff I had to do and if I didn’t do it well enough, I was out. But if I hadn’t know, I didn’t need to do a single thing to be saved.
It so frustrates me that intelligent thought and reasoning equals apostasy and stupidity. It looks like the membership of the church is going to push out all the honest real thinkers that could save it!
I am really tired of being treated like I am stupid, deceived, and a misled nobody. Then again I do not think I would much enjoy the attention of these “do-gooders” either!
The Church will not be saved. Get over it!
I noticed that my nextdoor neighbors quit going to church. Should I bake a batch of oatmeal cookies? lol
I took a break from all the podcasts but kept a few to follow.
I got engaged to someone I have known practically all my life. We are sharing our event on New Year's Day 2025 At my parents winter home in Saint George. I feel so grown up.
Your podcast has helped me to think of things with a sense of humor.
Big Hugs!
Will the oatmeal cookies have chocolate chips or raisins? Because if they will have raisins it might feel like a threat. 😆 Congratulations on your upcoming event, I'm so happy for you.
Great job with this today I was really inspired I even went and read the psychology today article with the addendum at the bottom from Willoughby he actually did a beautiful job of the Mormon doublespeak apologist. I think he thought that the writer was leaning heavily on the fleshy arm of intellect.😅
I could not, in good conscience, read that part out loud. To me it felt like he was trying to sound very intellectual so people would take his feelings as fact.
This is a fabulous episode! The BYU research on adult materials is fundamental, so much so that I think it would be a threat to the church. I love it when BYU produces academically credible research. Funny that the most damaging psychological aspect of adult materials, is not the adult materials, but rather if there are limiting religious beliefs that they are viewed through… another reason the church should denounce the book, visions of glory! The garment topic is excellent, can we pinpoint the perspective that the only factor to consider in wearing garments should be whether a woman wants to…?
October 31, 1517. Martin Luther was right.
Thank you for doing the show. I appreciate watching you dissect the nonsense that is "THE CHURCH" You wouldn't happen to appreciate older exmormon hippie types, would ya? 😉 🌎🫂☮️❤️
Exmormon hippies are my people. 😊
@@GenerallyUnquotable are you spoken for ma'am? 😉