Effective Smart Tariff Strategies (Part 2: Template Tariffs)

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  • Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024

Комментарии • 128

  • @geoffreycoan
    @geoffreycoan 10 месяцев назад +10

    Another very detailed and comprehensive explanation Gary. I agree with the position that once you’ve paid for the battery you might as well use it, the investment Is sunk and you should get best usage out of the asset. Your analysis of flux pretty much matches my own modelling and experience of using Flux through the summer, I force discharged in the evening peak but not too much that I had to rely on grid draw later on at night. I personally didn’t force charge overnight as long as I had enough battery to see me through to the solar start next day: the overnight Flux import rate is so close to the daytime Flux export rate, and by the time you include battery losses I felt it was very marginal.
    I’m lucky that I have a large array and the roof is East West aligned so we get a long solar day. Some of the summer I was solar charging the battery at 5am and exporting at 8:30pm!

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks for the kind words, Geoffrey - and wow - that's amazing to still be exporting so late in the day - West-facing arrays are great!
      Your solar strategy sounds good to me! :-)

    • @PaulSinnema
      @PaulSinnema 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@GaryDoesSolar The cost of a battery is not a variable that should be taken into consideration other than for ROI. In all cases the template you use should gain the most revenue no matter what the cost of the battery.

    • @redshift3
      @redshift3 10 месяцев назад +1

      Hi Geoffrey, I agree with your position about sunk cost. I had a little correspondence with Gary who did not at that time agree that the sunk cost of the battery should be discounted from strategic decisions after the battery has been purchased.
      Also, it is not strictly correct that only using the battery uses up its useful capability. There is cyclic degradation (based on use) and there is calendric degradation (which depends on time elapsed, regardless of use i.e. ageing). To mitigate the effects of calendric degradation we should use the battery while it is still in good condition.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      @@redshift3 You won me round in the end - thanks for persuading me 🙏

    • @PaulSinnema
      @PaulSinnema 10 месяцев назад +1

      I would even leave cost for the battery out of the equation when you haven't bought one yet. All should be aimed at maximizing profit from the battery. Taking the cost of the battery into the equation would divert from that goal.

  • @arpadvarga3475
    @arpadvarga3475 6 месяцев назад +2

    Your videos are very helpful Gary! Many thanks for all the useful information. Is it worth it to program home appliances to operate when the battery is charging at the same time?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  6 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks for the great feedback, Arpad :-) Now, that's a good question. Generally, the battery is charging during an off-peak period or when there is solar generation. So, that's a perfect time to run other appliances. Be careful of potential fire risks with say clothes dryers though...

  • @PitBull78q
    @PitBull78q 10 месяцев назад +3

    Very nice and helpful content. Well worth watching

  • @familyoffourdisneydreaming6081
    @familyoffourdisneydreaming6081 5 месяцев назад +1

    This is where the beauty of the Tesla solution comes in.
    Programme in your Tarif, and it handles all of the import/export based on your Tarif, use and the weather.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  5 месяцев назад

      Yeah, I really like how Tesla thinks about these things :-)

  • @DaveB-r7u
    @DaveB-r7u 10 месяцев назад +1

    Hi Gary, another excellent video. I did what I think you hoped people would do, I listened to the first part of the video and thought about it and made my own assumption. Then watched the rest of your video and was very surprised on your conclusions. I will now go away and think about what I could do in the future. Well done.
    One thing I have been considering for a while now is the clocks going back and forward, I understand why we did it, but looking to the future, should we keep to GMT all year round now? How would this affect your calculation. I would think in the summer I can discharge during the peak period and it might still be sunny to charge the battery up for an hour. As more and more people get solar there maybe an advantage in keeping to GMT. I am happy if it is proven to start a gov initiative to see if we can get 100,000 votes to get it discussed in parliament 😀👍

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, I should really deal with the daylight savings consideration in the utility - I'll have a think about the easiest, least painful way to handle this! I agree, it's time to ditch daylight savings globally - it causes way more pain than benefit...

  • @redshift3
    @redshift3 10 месяцев назад

    Hi Gary, I'm glad that you came to agree with my views on sunk costs. It's standard business economics, but a fallacy that many fall prey to.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      This is why I aim to engage with everyone who takes time to comment on my videos - we all benefit 😀 thanks!

  • @neilshep50
    @neilshep50 10 месяцев назад +2

    I have an East+West system with a 6.5KW battery. I'm on the Economy 7 tariff with Octopus, current rate paying 14.84p per unit cheap rate import, 15p per unit for export. For the past month I've been force charging the battery to "time shift" my daytime use. If the battery is at a high state of charge and I get excess solar generation, I basically sell it back to Octopus for what I paid 12 hours earlier. The same logic applies all year round unless the rates change.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Love it! Eco7 seem to be working well for you. Had you considered some of the other tariffs though? For example, would Flux give a better return, do you think, or just about the same?

  • @junkerzn7312
    @junkerzn7312 10 месяцев назад +2

    One thing I don't think you covered is the difference between forced-charging and load-support. Load-support tends to be more efficient because it only supports the loads on the system when the battery is below a certain level, and does not try to actually charge the battery. Thus load-support completely avoids the battery round-trip. It essentially prevents the battery from depleting past a certain point (in order to ensure proper battery reserves are available in case of a power outage and for other reasons).
    Load-support can also be used to ensure that the battery has enough suds to load-shift the evening peak, though this sort of automation is somewhat more difficult to setup. You load-support at (battery) voltage level A through 4pm, then drop the load-support to voltage level B from 4pm overnight to the next morning, thus allowing the battery to provide the energy at least through the evening. Then you set it back to level A around noon the next day so, presumably, you can avoid charging from the grid if there is sufficient solar to have recovered back to level A the next day.
    That's load-support vs forced-charging. It is basically just a programmable battery charger where you set the voltage level near the bottom of the battery rather than at the top. It kicks in and provides energy support once the battery has gotten low.
    And one other nice thing about load-support is that it doesn't kick in instantly. The battery voltage will tend to recover a little as the load is shifted (fewer amps being pulled from the battery), so the load-support mechanism gradually imposes itself. This has the effect of shifting some of the burden to the next day where it might potentially be able to recover from solar.
    --
    Another problem not well mentioned is the need for weather prediction when deciding whether to export during the evening peak or not. Exporting during the evening peak will begin to deplete the battery, since the sun is heading down at that point. This by itself is not a problem but if poor weather develops in successive days it can cause the battery to get behind the curve and force charging to occur on later days. Usually you only want to export during the evening peak if you know the battery will be able to complete recover the next day. Which requires a weather prediction to be incorporated.
    -Matt

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks for taking the time to comment, Matt - I'll investigate about "load support"... With regard to weather prediction, my analysis (at least for tariffs like Octopus Flux) shows that you don't need to worry about what the weather will be like the next day if you fully charge your battery through the night.

  • @Jchat11
    @Jchat11 9 месяцев назад +1

    Great videos Gary. Personally I prefer agile Octopus, using force charging (5.8Kw Battery) early hours or during price plunge events. My daily use is on average 12Kw a day. I have managed to keep My monthly bill at £60 during November and December.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  9 месяцев назад +1

      Thank you! And great to hear about your savings on Agile. I’ll likely stay on that tariff for another few weeks then switch to one of the Flux tariffs 😀 Part 4 of this series will cover Agile 👍🏻

    • @Jchat11
      @Jchat11 9 месяцев назад +1

      On Sunday 24th December very windy weather brought costs down on Agile tariff. I find your analysis of various scenarios very interesting.
      Total cost
      £ -0.09
      Total consumption
      19.77 kWh

  • @RobRitchie-gk1ky
    @RobRitchie-gk1ky 10 месяцев назад +1

    Gary, You are making an interesting and thought-provoking series and I look forwards to the next 2 videos. I also support your efforts as a patreon.
    I know that you cannot export and import at the same time. Here are some scenarios to make my query clearer. Let's say that an inverter is capable of exporting at 3 kW.
    Please tell me if I am correct. I am ignoring any bonus from solar energy and also efficiency..
    1. I try to export 3kW to the grid but I have a house load of 1 kW. Will 2 kW be exported with the remaining 1 kW used for the house load?
    2. I try to export 3kW to the grid but I have a house load of 4 kW. Will nothing be exported with 3 kW being used for the house load and the remaining 1 kW being imported from the grid? (i.e. the inverter cancels my export request).
    3. I try to import 3 kW into the battery. All 3 kW go into the battery, and house load is also taken care of by the grid (i.e. Charging makes no difference.)
    I agree with Tim that the battery cost only becomes relevant when considering ROI. If I have purchase the battery anyway, I wouldn't include this in my immediate day-to-costs.
    Importing in the night flux 'cheap' period makes sense to me. After all, I get the cost back anyway when exporting excess solar during the day. I have an E/S/W grid. In spring-autumn, the E and W panels perform nearly as well as the S panels over the day. But in Winter, the S panels do much better with the reduced direct E and W direction of the sun.
    Rob

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Thanks Rob, and sorry for the delayed reply - I only just your comment just now! I really appreciate your kind words about the series - it's not for everyone, but I'm hoping that for those interested in getting the best from their smart tariffs will get something from the videos! Thanks for being a patron and I'll logged your questions to be answered in the Patreon Q&A that I plan to record tomorrow (feeling a bit under the weather today). Cheers!

  • @robinlane8224
    @robinlane8224 8 месяцев назад +1

    I have just come across your channel and you have some fantastic videos and insights.
    One thing that I do that I have not seen mentioned (and is now giving me concerns) is that I also force charge my battery between 1pm and 4,00pm(over the winter months) so that I do not have to buy from the grid during the peak 4pm to 7pm period (regardless of whether on Agile or Flux). We have high usage and the battery won't have enough energy and will be depleted by the the time of the cheap rate the following early morning. I am also hammering the battery with 2 force charges per day over these dark winter months! Any thoughts please?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  8 месяцев назад +2

      Thanks Robin, for your very kind words 🙏 I guess the most obvious/prudent solution would be to increase the capacity of your battery storage. Is that an option for you?

  • @ollie9397
    @ollie9397 10 месяцев назад +1

    This is very useful as we are about to have a solar and battery system installed, we already have Octopus and a smart meter installed in preparation. From this video it looks like there is quite a bit of data gathering and learning to be done once we have the system installed.
    I wonder how much automation can be implemented in the various control software for the inverter/ battery system. Can you set up perameters like " if battery is below X charge at Y time then force charge until a certain value is reached" or the reverse for force export at peak times etc. ?
    If this level of control is not available in the standard software is there a 3rd party control system that can be used ?
    It looks like we will have 3 different data points, the inverter, the battery which seems to have a second inverter and the tigo optimisers, will this data be consolidated through one software?
    Thanks for these videos, the expanations are clear and understandable for non electricians like me.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      You're most welcome, Ollie. Now, depending on the actual battery and inverter products, there are automation solutions out there, include MyOE (myenergyoptimiser.co.uk - I am planning to interview the founder shortly) and Home Assistant, which I made a short video on here: ruclips.net/video/yr6bSSqEiJI/видео.html
      I think we can expect automation to become the norm before long... :-)

  • @bazcurtis178
    @bazcurtis178 10 месяцев назад +2

    I was wondering how I was going to do this in the summer with Agile and I know you have a video to come on this. In the past I have turned off force charging in the summer, but you bring up some interesting points. I then realised that my inverter has the options to set an import cost option. I could set it to say, charge if the slots are below a certain figure. I was thinking 10p as the export is 15p. If not then don’t force change and I will take the imported solar to charge the battery and start to export later.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Yeah, it's certainly worth modelling those scenarios for various amounts of sunshine, then trying for real. For me, I'm convinced that always force charging throughout the night is best, for both winter and summer :-)

    • @MarkAAshdown
      @MarkAAshdown 9 месяцев назад

      Hi - which inverter are you using? It would seem on the face of it that if it can be set to charge any a specific price and discharge at a higher price that that’s a win win situation.

    • @bazcurtis178
      @bazcurtis178 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@MarkAAshdown I am using the LuxPowerTek inverter. It has the option to charge and discharge on price. I had forgotten I could do it. In the summer I just turned it off. Following Gary’s video it could well be worth turning the price option on. At the moment it just picks the 6 cheapest slots regardless of cost. In the summer I might just tell it to charge if the price is cheap, not just the cheapest.

  • @TheBadoctopus
    @TheBadoctopus 10 месяцев назад +1

    I've come to the conclusion that the best overall Flux strategy is to import and export in the appropriate tariff windows only what is necessary to maintain a change buffer of (in my case) 2-3 kwh.
    This covers the most profitable actions that you outline, because we still import cheap and export peak, but also by focusing on the buffer maintenance we have spare to cover the variable British weather, or a big unexpected load. It also has the side effect of avoiding wear on the battery.

    • @TheBadoctopus
      @TheBadoctopus 10 месяцев назад +1

      This needs a solar forecasting service (Solcast) integrated to get the correct overnight charging amount.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Sounds good, although what I was trying to show in the video is that by filling your battery during the off-peak period every day, you don't need to worry about the weather - makes automation so much easier :-)

    • @TheBadoctopus
      @TheBadoctopus 10 месяцев назад

      For an AC coupled battery, you're correct, because the losses are unavoidable. But for a hybrid inverter like mine, AC grid -> DC battery is less efficient than DC solar -> DC battery. That 5-10% difference adds up.
      There is a second effect that's perhaps worth considering for those with batteries outside the home envelope, which is that holding a lithium battery at high charge, especially at warmer temperatures in the summer, makes side reactions more likely which degrade the battery faster.

  • @howardwatkins2229
    @howardwatkins2229 10 месяцев назад +1

    One thing I don't think you have covered is the control of the battery. I have recently installed a Tesla Powerwall and (although I'm on a fixed rate tarif) I can model Octopus flux in the Tesla app and see the effect of the off-peak periods etc. The app automatically charges the battery 100% in the off peak period and discharges throughout the day - but I have very little control otherwise.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Yeah, as usual Howard - I felt the video was getting way too long and way too involved to cram in more... (I really need to come up with far shorter videos!)
      You're right though: there is definitely something to be said for battery automation - and it's good to see more and more battery manufacturers becoming interested in developing the required management capability in their products - essentially, tell your battery what energy tariff you're on and it'll take care of everything. I really like that :-)

  • @paulvose3177
    @paulvose3177 10 месяцев назад +1

    Thanks very helpful. Do you know how to force discharge an alphaESS smile B3 plus?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      You're most welcome, Paul. Now this video might be of use: ruclips.net/video/suVIGVJVXQc/видео.html

  • @MartinHopkinson
    @MartinHopkinson 10 месяцев назад +1

    Thanks Gary. I’m pleased that you’ve confirmed with the maths the instinct I had that force charging in the 2-5am window, even in Summer, is the right thing to do. My reasoning was along the lines that, if you don’t need it (and you probably won’t), you can simply get your money back by exporting it. So I do that all year round and it makes things simple. However, I don’t force discharge, and my reason for that was to do with battery life. I heard on the ‘rumour mill’ that it’s not good for the battery. Is that a valid concern?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      You're most welcome, Martin - glad my video has been useful to you, to confirm what you already felt :-) On the subject of pushing your battery hard, I guess it depends how long you intend to keep it... Most batteries come with a 10-year warranty, so you might just want to calculate the battery ROI on that timeframe, and of course, if it's warranted then you could (and should) just use it to its full potential and hammer it. Certainly, that's the view of GivEnergy with their batteries (and they've recently increased their warranty from 10 to 12 years to support that). On the other hand, if you're looking to keep your battery for a lot longer than the warranty, then treating it with a bit more kid gloves could be the way to go... See my video here explaining in a little more detail: ruclips.net/video/DCAMDeA00vM/видео.html

    • @PatDonohue33
      @PatDonohue33 10 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, I've been watching some of your videos & fired an email off to Sunsynk, as I think I have hit on an idea with great potential. I'm fairly new to solar & a little dyslexic, so don't always express myself too well. I was hoping to send you a copy as you may well have thoughts to offer or improvements. I can't find your email address? I have never messaged on RUclips before so did not want to cut and past it here for all to see. Thanks in anticipation Pat

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      @@PatDonohue33 Hi Pat, no problem - feel free to email me@GaryDoesSolar.com 👍

  • @mikejoseph425
    @mikejoseph425 10 месяцев назад +4

    It’s all getting a bit too sophisticated for me and when I look at the figures, for me, the real issue is can I substitute a 30+ pence rate to a 7.5p which makes a 22.5p saving for 18 hours of the day. In my case that is 20kWh x 22.5p = £1,642 saving p.a. Plus any Solar benefit set against an installation cost of £17k which together with Solar is 10%+ TAX FREE
    It is nice to be able to export Solar at zero cost for 15p return, but in my short experience that only seems possible in the sunny months if your battery is sized for winter needs
    I have never at age 69 seen any relevance in pay back time. My focus has always been; is the tax free saving greater than the return on other types of investments whatever they are, which are taxed

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Hi Mike - that's certainly a good way of looking at it, if you're working out a basic strategy. If you can fill your battery at a 7.5p import rate then use that to power your home for the entire day, that's brilliant. And, as you say, any solar generation just compliments that, meaning your battery has greater residual charge at the end of the day, meaning you don't need to charge as much overnight to be ready for the next day :-)

  • @serraios1989
    @serraios1989 10 месяцев назад +1

    I have tested the efficiency of my GivEnergy 8.2 a few times, when forced charged and forced discharged and consistently it needs 10kwh to charge to 100% and exports only 6.7kwh. The readings are from our smart meter and the efficiency is only 67%. The efficiency increases significantly when the battery is charged and discharged at lower power. I only discharge the battery to the grid during the octopus saving sessions.
    Would be interesting to see similar tests from other owners

    • @junkerzn7312
      @junkerzn7312 10 месяцев назад

      This is fairly typical for round-trip charge-to-export. AC chargers are typically only 85% efficient. The battery round-trip is 95% (worse if charging or discharging at higher than a 0.2C rate), and exporting from the battery is typically around 92% efficient. 0.85 * 0.95 * 0.92 = 0.74 = 74%.
      So you came in at 67%, and close to the best-case end-to-end efficiency for residential is going to be 74%. (grid-scale storage such as Tesla megapacks clock in at around 93% end-to-end).
      Every voltage conversion matters when it comes to efficiency. Losses add-up quickly. Which means that the quality of the equipment winds up being paramount.
      -Matt

    • @serraios1989
      @serraios1989 10 месяцев назад

      Thanks Matt
      I was not sure whether there was a fault in the system

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Worth writing to GivEnergy to see if they agree with your findings. Most AC Coupled batteries I've seen (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) advertise 10% round-trip losses. A little shocking if it's way more than that, as it starts to kill the ROI for having a battery!

    • @serraios1989
      @serraios1989 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@GaryDoesSolar
      Thanks Gary
      I did write to GivEnergy and they replied that efficiency depends on many factors etc. I’m pretty sure though that in a lab setting under strictly controlled tests the battery performs as advertised. As I said my battery has 67% efficiency only when forced to charge and discharge at max power and I used the readings from the smart meter itself. Efficiency appears to be increased during every day use, but I don’t have a reliable way to calculate it. Forced charge and discharge with all the circuit breakers down apart from the alarm that was on, in the consumer unit allowed me to take quite accurate readings from the smart meter. It’s been consistently 67% when fully charged to 100% from 0 and immediately fully discharged. Perhaps you could try to test your battery next time you are away on holiday and nobody is at home
      It’s interesting that GivEnergy didn’t dispute my meter readings and calculations; they just said that the battery efficiency depends on multiple factors

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      @@serraios1989 Yeah, 67% doesn't help the battery ROI case! I would like to try some testing here, but there are always people at home. If I get the chance though, I will 😃

  • @ChrisChurchill-by7ek
    @ChrisChurchill-by7ek 10 месяцев назад +1

    You have moved to the battery being a sunk cost, but surely we should account for needing to replace it. Hopefully the replacement cost will be lower and will buy increased capacity with a longer life so the price per kWh on a replacement basis could be a lot less than the price that someone about to buy tomorrow should use. But still very much not zero.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Hi Chris, yeah - although I'm not really arguing it as a sunk cost (that was words used by someone in the comments). I agree with you, the cost would be accounted for in the overall ROI chart (a future video). And that chart method would also account for any battery replacements/upgrades over time.

  • @ascot4000
    @ascot4000 10 месяцев назад +1

    Excellent Gary and I have just split the £100 Octopus referral with your account. Enjoy the £50.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      That’s so very kind of you - thanks! 🙏 😀

  • @stephenbrickwood1602
    @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад +5

    If the battery is your insurance against blackouts, then ignore the sunk costs of the battery, as it is part of a different benefit cost problem. 😊

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Agreed!

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      ​@@GaryDoesSolar
      EV big battery is the same on steroids. V2G featured.
      Hahaha Hahaha 😊😊😊😊

    • @123chris0
      @123chris0 10 месяцев назад

      How many hours or minutes in the UK are people expected to build Resilience into their power supply? In the last 20 years, I can count on one hand the number of minutes we have had dropped mains supply.

    • @123chris0
      @123chris0 10 месяцев назад

      Why have insurance against something that never happens?

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@123chris0
      You do not need a home battery if you have an EV with the V2G feature.
      The existing national grid will become the backup supply.
      5 times more electricity in the no fossil fueled future world.
      And so by UNLOADING the existing grid and using it to balance battery storage you save humongously on expensive grid expansion.
      The grid infrastructure makes up 66% of electricity bills.
      The grid expansion costs are the 'elephant in the room'.
      The silence is deafening, on this matter except when nuclear promoters are attacking distant renewables as uneconomic.
      Expanding electricity from central generation needs expanded national electric grid. Nuclear promoters are silent.
      Not happy to talk about the grid costs.
      Ask them Hahaha Hahaha 😆

  • @PaulSinnema
    @PaulSinnema 10 месяцев назад

    Gary, I've become a Patreon. I've tried using your Solarazma. Are you certain that the calculations are correct? I don't have a battery yet but I'm planning on getting one next year and would like to use your tool to decide if I want a bigger capacity then my home needs. My daily needs are about 15 - 20 kWh in the Winter (all electric heat pump) but nothing in the Summer (PV). Maybe I'm using the tool wrong but tried several scenarios and never get a revenue.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Hi Paul, thanks very much for becoming a Patreon - I’ll send you a message on there in a moment to see if I can help you 👍🏻

  • @lyndastokes2971
    @lyndastokes2971 5 месяцев назад

    If you force discharge your battery to the grid in stage 3 to maximise income then what power are you left with for your own use until the cheap rate? Is it not better to save your battery for use in stage 3 and 4? I can’t get my head around that one.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  5 месяцев назад

      Hi Lynda, I would recommend you stop the force discharging during stage 3 when you get down to a certain percentage level - that way you should have enough to get you through to the next day.

  • @RaNdomcAPitaLISatiOn
    @RaNdomcAPitaLISatiOn 8 месяцев назад

    Silly question from someone new to this: what happens during forced discharge? Does it go toward usage during that time with excess discharge (for lack of a better word) going to the grid?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  8 месяцев назад +1

      Not a silly question at all. Yes, house load is always covered first with the remainder being exported to the grid.

  • @RobAldred
    @RobAldred 10 месяцев назад +1

    Really enjoy your videos Gary. Shame Agile is performing poorly currently. I'm monitoring but sticking with flux for the moment. it's all pointless if Octopus fail to retrieve any half hour period from the meter, you get shunted onto standard as happened in October for me.

    • @RobAldred
      @RobAldred 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@kayoedowner6711 thanks for the advice. I have messaged them, will see what they come back with. Seems unfair. OctoAid shows 2, 3 or 4 half hour slots missing each day over the period of a week in October. Seems clear since so just a glitch 🤞

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks for the kind words, Rob. Now, I was going to suggest the same as other commenters here wrt to the missing readings - always worth speaking to Octopus about any problems you have - their support is great and they are pragmatic when solving smart-meter related problems. Good luck in the resolution!

    • @radiotowers1159
      @radiotowers1159 10 месяцев назад

      Hi Rob,
      funny you mention it I am presently on Agile and my half hourly electric stopped in October yet it’s working for my gas. I got the Octopus mini by chance in October and that works fine for the instant readings, just the half hourly has stopped. Octopus reackon the meter was never commissioned properly when installed in June, I follow the Agile tariff for usage and home battery charging, I just hope I have not been wasting my time.?

    • @RobAldred
      @RobAldred 10 месяцев назад

      @@radiotowers1159 Thats sounds a bit more extreme that the odd missing reading.
      Definitely get in touch.
      The outcome of mine was their support person calculated the average of my previous reading at the missing time slots and gave me credit for the difference. Good result

  • @paulhaussauer9943
    @paulhaussauer9943 10 месяцев назад

    This is excellent work to provide an income. But what if you are more concerned with UPS?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Thanks. Yeah, in some areas, UPS has to be the priority. I note many battery manufacturers (including Tesla) incorporate special functionality to handle such events - eg. Storm Watch

  • @davidphillips2497
    @davidphillips2497 10 месяцев назад

    Have you allowed for the efficiency loss between putting energy into the battery and taking it out. For my Tesla battery this appears to be a loss of apx 12.5%.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Hi David, yeah, the utility includes DC-AC and AC-DC conversion losses, and these can be programmed for any kind of AC (default 9%) or DC Coupled (default 3%) battery.

  • @philip_james
    @philip_james 10 месяцев назад

    Did you take into account the 10% loss for force charging the battery?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Yes, that’s built into the utility, and it’s also configurable.

    • @philip_james
      @philip_james 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@GaryDoesSolar Perfect 👍

  • @PlayerOne101.
    @PlayerOne101. 10 месяцев назад

    How would I force discharge a foxess battery and inverter during peak times on octopus flux?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      This video will show you: ruclips.net/video/bm8mf3N6mK8/видео.html

  • @wajopek2679
    @wajopek2679 10 месяцев назад +1

    Abit heavy going towards the end. if I had battery it would be Tesla and I would just leave it to learn and do its thing. This is like an “Home Energy Stock market” scheme. The end user has paid up front for all this equipment, plays his game to make the best of his investment whilst the energy companies play their game on the back of the end user.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      There is definitely something to be said for automation - and it's good to see battery manufacturers becoming more and more interested in developing such management capability - essentially, tell your battery what energy tariff you're on and it'll take care of everything. I quite like that.
      And I like the fact that it's the collaboration between the consumers, energy providers and grid authority that makes it all work. And everybody has to win in order for that to happen... :-)
      (Sorry it got a little heavy at the end of the video, btw)

  • @123chris0
    @123chris0 10 месяцев назад

    The UK is not in a situation (for 99% of the population) where blackout redundency is a need. It is so rare, it is not a issue.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Whilst it's true that in most places across the UK, there is little issue of blackouts, some remote areas do suffer. And in many countries outside of the UK, including locations in the US, it is a real problem - especially in stormy weather.

  • @stephenbrickwood1602
    @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад +3

    If your EVs battery is free with the vehicle and has the V2G feature.
    Then again, the battery costs are zero.
    The vehicle is normally parked 23hrs every day and can still day trade electricity and grid stability, then you should still get benefits.
    😊😊😊😊😊😊

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +2

      You're totally right, Stephen - and I'm hoping that V2G technology appears in more and more EVs before long - it's a game changer!

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@GaryDoesSolar
      you could do a what if video about a well known EV that is on UK roads and the imaginary self plugin feature.
      It helps everyone appreciate what could be.
      You would know the vehicle price and running costs there in the UK.
      You should know the battery size.
      If I am right your spread sheet should show how practical the idea is, profitable.
      If I am right people will demand V2G, but it is not obvious to others yet.
      If I am right it will protect the existing national grid. And block nuclear promoters.
      Just my suggestion.
      Please, you are well equipped with or knowledge and spread sheet.

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@GaryDoesSolar my thoughts are that EVERY parking space will have a knee high wall power point.
      The vehicle will have a plug on the bumper.
      And the selfparking software will see the plug and nuzzle onto it.
      Like a baby on its mother's.......
      The EV will identify itself and follow its program and daytrade electricity.
      NOTHING RAPID just one of millions protecting the existing national grid.
      Saving the country from humongous costs of grid capacity expansion.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      @@stephenbrickwood1602 You've got me thinking on topics I could cover when I tackle V2G. I'm not sure a knee-height connector would work though - it would heavily constrain vehicle design.

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@GaryDoesSolar
      Design constraints was my first thoughts.
      I was trying to avoid the plugin and unplug situation. With a wall cable.
      If the plug was forgotten as you drove off, damaged equipment would become a problem.
      Then I thought of the robotic vacuum cleaner and stopped wasting time thinking about the plug in the bumper.
      Given it would be a low kWh rate of supply or demand a simple wall plug would be fine.
      Also simple selfparking is a working thing today.
      I would think a simple extruded plastic part will be the solution.
      A power point installation was only $80 by a home electrician.
      Shopping centre car parks could become Virtual Power Plants, VPP, with trickle flows from thousands of vehicles.
      What I am saying is that grid costs are fixed and as people used less grid electricity the last customers will pay higher and higher power bills.
      It could be destabilising to the economics of the entire grid.
      My insights are expanding as I explain my thoughts based on strong feedback from my critics.
      Thanks Gary.

  • @stephenbrickwood1602
    @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад +3

    Say EV big battery is 100kwh,
    and the daily drive is only 7kwh, and daily top-up is std operating procedure.
    Then, smart weather forecasting and you weekly use profile programed into the vehicles computer, ezi pezi backup as needed. 😊😊😊
    With V2G. And selfparking plugin to the grid.
    Edit.
    Just saw your software. Excellent.
    My example is the 100kwh big battery, but only a 7kwh daily drive.
    Compared to your 10kwh fixed home battery in your example.
    V2G looks very interesting.
    Can you do the V2G example please.
    Because that is the future I believe.
    If I am right a little bit of fossil fueled generation in the worst of winter will have little climate impact and avoid worldwide nuclear proliferation.
    And be the cheapest for the economy and climate as the national grid expansion is stupendously expensive and CO2 emissions from metal production.

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +2

      Thanks for the kind words about my software, Stephen. You'll be pleased to hear I'm going to be making a video on V2G before long... :-)

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@GaryDoesSolar
      excellent.
      Remember the combination of existing national electric grid and its unnoticed cost. And decades and decades and decades to build.
      5times bigger, bs economics.
      AND EV parked 23hrs every day
      AND rooftop solar PV
      AND the unloaded grid as the future expands.

    • @stephenbrickwood1602
      @stephenbrickwood1602 10 месяцев назад

      @@GaryDoesSolar
      People don't even 'see' the wires, the poles, the connection to millions and millions of buildings and grid ends.
      I noticed that at 90 Elm Park, Brixton the electric power supply is under ground.
      Expanding underground electric power supply is TRIPLE HUMONGOUSLY EXPENSIVE.
      I only looked at above ground aerial supply.
      The address is my brothers old London address from decades ago, that's all.

  • @davidfellowes1628
    @davidfellowes1628 10 месяцев назад +1

    Gary, what you have exposed is a few very interesting facts:
    1. The battery takes on a much more significant role for both the VPP and the utility. If force charge makes sense in every case with Flux (as proven) as proven, then moving to say even four days battery supply as a black out strategy (as recommended by Tony Saba of RethinkX - ruclips.net/video/7eJKTYc_v-I/видео.html), makes even more sense
    2. The EV charging overnight is no different from battery charging as long as your inverters are properly sized.
    3. Electrical options when upgrading one's home are much more viable and industry experts need to be monitored carefully, as many still don't appreciate the significance of our solar systems.
    Many thanks

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад

      Great points - thanks, David. I think batteries are going to be become more and more important wrt domestic energy management over time. And if the prices come down (as expected) more people will get them, and those with them, will be able to extend their capacity easier.

  • @petercraig9197
    @petercraig9197 29 дней назад

    Sorry Gary, you've lost me. Why is there a cost of using the battery please ?

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  29 дней назад

      Hi Peter, so there are two schools of thought on this (that I know of): The first is that to do anything with a battery, you have to pay for it in the first place, so you should amortise the cost of the battery over its lifetime of use. And as that lifetime is measured in cycles, it becomes a useful metric to amortise against. There’s more on that in this video here and also the follow-up: ruclips.net/video/DCAMDeA00vM/видео.htmlsi=M2ZOvrghr6npXyTt
      All that said, I now actually prefer the second school of thought, which treats the cost of the battery as a sunk cost (along with the rest of the system) which is then recovered over time. See this video for how that would work:
      ruclips.net/video/JE2q__wFck0/видео.htmlsi=ayua4x19Mhj_EDgs

  • @SuperDiagnostic
    @SuperDiagnostic 10 месяцев назад

    Unfortunately this video is geared to selling your software package.. Such a shame as I have no interest in buying it and 👋

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      You don’t understand my motivation at all. I’ve literally spent more than a year developing this utility so that those who want to, now have a way of modelling their installation - this capacity simply did not exist before. I’m not selling the utility - I’m using is as a thank you to people who want to support me in my mission (that is, joining my Patreon).
      I have to ask: do you write to every entity that promotes products you’re not interested in purchasing, to inform them of that? It must be exhausting…

  • @steviebye1
    @steviebye1 10 месяцев назад +1

    Hi Gary ive just joined your patreon, how do i message you directly as i have a couple of questions 😀

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Hi Steve, thanks very much for joining my Patreon. You can send a message from there or you can email me direct on me@GaryDoesSolar.com 👍🏻

  • @tomsgrinbergs8020
    @tomsgrinbergs8020 10 месяцев назад +1

    Used your referral code when signing up for Octopus. Let me know if you get the credit!

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  10 месяцев назад +1

      Hello Toms, that's so very kind of you - thank you! I'll do that :-)

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  9 месяцев назад +1

      Hi Toms, just to let you know, I received the £50 credit today - hope you did too. Happy New Year :-)

    • @tomsgrinbergs8020
      @tomsgrinbergs8020 9 месяцев назад +1

      Got the email just now as well, thank you and happy new year!

    • @GaryDoesSolar
      @GaryDoesSolar  9 месяцев назад +1

      @@tomsgrinbergs8020 Fab, and thanks again for thinking of me 😃