I've been with Octopus for about two and a half years but I changed to FLUX just over 2 weeks ago. The results are FANTASTIC. I have a 5.6kW array of panels and battery storage of 11.6kWh. My house is 100% electric - no gas. The house has all the usual domestic appliances - two large freezers and two fridges, two electric ovens and an induction hob, washing machine, tumble dryer, two large screen tv's, a hot tub and a charge point for my EV. So our daily load is significant. I run an air source heat pump for heating and hot water. Since changing to FLUX I have only used mains power for three hours a day - during the low cost FLUX cheap period between 2am and 5am. So my batteries get charged during the day from the sun when it's not too cloudy and from the mains during the cheap rate period. Each day I've used NO MAINS ELECTRIC between 5:01 am and 2:00 am the next day - it's all come from the batteries. We haven't even needed to set timers to run stuff in the cheap period, except for charging the EV. On three days it's been fairly cloudy all day and on four days it's been sunny So I've used 139.9 kWh at my cheap rate of 19.4p (£27.14) and exported 29.22 kWh at 34.76p (£10.15). So my total outlay including running my house, a hot tub, an air source heat pump and my EV has been £16.99 for the week. The EV has used about 82kWh, 47kWh from the batteries or solar and 35kWh from the mains at 19.4p So the car has cost me £6.79 to do 220 miles because most of the power was from the sun (via the house battery) and the rest from cheap rate power. If I was running my pervious car which did 50mpg on diesel that would have been around £30.00 My Octopus rates are as follows (they vary depending where you are in the UK) Cheap rate - 19.4p (import) & 8.44p (export) Standard rate - 32.4p and 21.4p Peak rate - 45.26p and 34.76p I think, looking at the temperatures and the amount of sun etc over the last week this will be a fairly average week for me over the year. so I can infer a total energy bill of around £880 a year or £73 a month. These are rough figures so please don't nit-pick - I'm just trying to give an idea of how good this tariff is likely to be. I hope it hasn't been too boring or complicated. Thanks for the video Gary - clear and easy to watch. Keep them coming
Thanks for sharing the details around your experience with Flux, Scott. Amazing results and I'm sure this will help persuade people who are not sure about Flux, to give it a go! Thanks also of the kind words about my videos :-)
Thanks for your statistical info, gives me confidence. One query is I've contacted Octopus by email concerned about my feed in tariff standing, I want to migrate the same rate from my recent move from SSE. Octopus have not replied yet after a week, so how does one communicate if I want to change my plan to Octopus Flux, or a plan that's suitable for my system??
I have much the same size system ,thou my battery is slightly smaller.. As I live alone I use very little power,so my battery is in use all the time ,I import around .25kwh a day and in the last month consumed 115kwh while exporting 138kwh via solar... I do not run an EV (in my case it just does not make financial sense to purchase a £30 000 car when my old car is running so well,) Hopefully by the end of the yearly solar season (which I think of at the end of Nov ,when I start cooking on gas ) I hope to have at least £200 in credit with Octopus , and with that cedit use to finance to dark days of winter,which is around 75days or back to cooking electric middle to late Feb....... The thing I am looking at is this, ,,Octopus standing charge for me is 42p aday,,(I think) per year thats £153 and thats just electric I think the gas is another £100 ayear, so £250 ayear down the swanny for what!!!!! I am considering switching to Utilta for my imported energy and keeping Octopus for my export.. Utilta has no standing charge and is a prepaid energy,,so in theroy I could buy and save credit with them or save the cash myself and just buy as needed..The price of there energy is more expensive but even so .I think it could work.... Regarding using your battery to store then export ,,, in my case I have to wish to do that,,I am 67 and want my battery to last my lifetime.. so I do not want too work it that hard...Treat your battery like a baby care for it and hopefully it will last ,,,regards
Many thanks for your informative video. I have joined octopus on the flux tarrif using your link to get both of us the £50 reward. Even in March I am powering numerous appliances and exporting up to 5KWh per day. So far I have not programmed my solar/battery system to download during the three hour cheap period but will do so soon Many thanks for your informative videos I have subscribed
Hi Philip, you're most welcome - and thank you so much for using my referral code - that helps me an incredible amount :-) Btw, I'm working on a web app version of the utility - it's still quite early but it's shaping up nicely and also fully functional. If you'd like to try it, please send me an email to "me" followed by an at symbol, then my channel name (all one word) and finally dot com, and I'll reply with a link to it.
Brilliant explanation of what’s available. I feel we’re in a ‘coming of age’ period for how and when we consume power and it’s positive impact on the grid. Driven by Octopus where the enablers are solar, home batteries and EV’s. Exciting times. I have an EV and am still seriously considering a move to Flux from Intelligent. It helps that we have a SW facing roof where this lends itself to the peak period for export. Great videos Gary. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
Thanks Jonathan - I totally agree. We're just getting started, I reckon :-) And yes, I was going to mention in the video that any roof with a partial/full West-facing aspect, would be very good for Flux (but I forgot!) :-)
Just had Solar installed and was looking for info on Tariffs, this is an excellent video made by a great presenter and an easy to understand description throughout
Thank you for a very useful video. I've just had 10 4.5kw panels and a 9.5 kw Givenergy battery fitted and managed to switch from Shell to Octopus with a new smart meter fitted yesterday. Flux sounds great however we have a 12kw electric boiler and have a high consumption rate especially in winter. Ican see I'm going to need to study your chart carefully before I choose Flux or Agile. Thanks again
Hi Kevin, my pleasure to provide you with that - and now, instead of the spreadsheets, you can use my free online utility, which is easier to use. Try it here: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/ Good luck with whatever tariff you finally select! :-)
Keep on doing what your doing Gary. We all need people like yourself. My battery system on a fully south facing roof went live last Friday. Aug 18. I have sat & watched your vids in a really serious manner & treated it all like doing a O/U degree. You pack a lot of info into your tutorials so by the same measure you put a lot of effort into what we see. Thank you. I will stand by my product selection "Cos its done now". My next minefield to cross is the Tariff affair. For next few months I will stay where I am just so I get to see actual savings. My point of reference. You manage to make a very complex & outwardly very boring subject interesting. Top man. Well done you.
Hi Rich, your comment has made my day - thank you so much for sharing! And good luck in your tariff analysis - it seems we're all spoilt for choice with smart tariffs these days (at least in the UK)...
Super work, well done. One strange thing: I'm on Octopus Go though we do NOT have an EV. We have up to 5kW from solar and a Tesla Powerwall 2. It looks like Flux should be the way to go, but we are very high energy users (I run a business from home, computers and other equipment run most of the time), so outside the peak of summer our battery will often be nearly flat by 4pm. How did we get onto Go without an EV? We were ported across from the Bulb EV tariff which didn't require an EV.
Thank you! Yeah, Flux is a pretty attractive tariff :-) IU've made available a web app now for people to see if Flux is right for them: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Hi Jon, my pleasure! And very happy to help you out. I'm in the middle of developing a coded version of the spreadsheet, as the spreadsheet is too unwieldy now. Will release the link for it shortly :-)
*** NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION *** 1. Oops - it was pointed out to me that the "duck curve" is actually to do with solar production, not demand (sorry about that). 2. The Octopus Eco7 rates are slightly different than in the video - the off-peak rate of Eco7 is actually higher than Go. 3. I've been told that it's possible to have Octopus Go and and also to be signed up to Scottish Power's SEG export at 12p (with no extra standing charge). So that makes Go even better! 🙂 4. Here is a link to the utility I covered in the video - please feel free to use, but as it could contain bugs, no warranty is provided. Please use at your own risk: www.garydoessolar.com/utilities/fluxcalculator/index.html If anyone finds a bug, let me know and I'll try to fix. I'd also be happy to people to work on this, improving it. If you message me with a copy of your new version, I'll add it to the website, of course crediting you. 🙂 I've been asked how you can support me in my work if you're already on Octopus. I'm happy that you're getting something from my videos, but you can always buy me a "coffee" using this link: www.buymeacoffee.com/GaryDoesSolar - thank you! 🙂
Thanks Gary this will be really helpful for me. I'm currently getting quotes for different size arrays and batteries and was looking at how best to use the energy it'll create.
Glad I found this video. Convinced me to increase my battery size prior to agreeing installation. I will look to increase my battery caoacity in future by adding additional batteries in parallel. Seems like basically the objective financial answer for everybody is get the biggest battery you can afford at first, it will pay for itself using flux import/peak export.
Cheers Martin - yeah, and with battery prices coming down all the time, it's a really good investment. Not sure if you saw this video I made yet, talking about that, but here's the link: ruclips.net/video/3vwDrfuXyik/видео.html
Super helpful video Gary. Thank you. Our Solar PV system went live just 3 weeks ago and is already reducing our grid consumption by almost 70% (and that in a not-so-sunny Dumfries!) I am already thinking of adding a second battery to reduce our exports to grid and the Octopus Flux tariff will make a second battery even more financially viable. The only (slight) stumbling block is that I now need to really get my head around how to correctly set up my Solis invertor to deal with forced imports and exports!
Great news about your grid consumption - and hopefully a lot more sunshine over the coming months! Yeah, I'm hearing that quite a few brands of battery don't handle forced export very well, but forced import should be possible, given that off-peak rates have been around longer than solar batteries. Good luck in your research on Solis, and thanks for your kind words about my video :-)
Gary, your video was so informative. I am about to have solar and batteries installed and I think Flux will be ideal for me. Thanks for your hard work.
Hi there Jean - good luck with your installation, and all the best with your Flux tariff - I think it's a great one! My pleasure to bring you videos like this :-)
Great video, and a superb spreadsheet! Just the kind of thing I wanted to try to do but, seeing yours saved me SO MUCH effort, and made me realise my skills probably werent' good enough anyway! :) Donation on its way!
Marvellous! I have been saying we need a big spreadsheet to understand all the variables, but I was daunted at the prospect. I will check out all your videos as the first one I found was packed with useful information.
I’ve got a GivEnergy 3.6kw inverter this charges at 2.5kw max. If I was thinking of installing solar/battery I’d get as big a battery that I could afford and a 5kw inverter. The inverter is the limiting factor. Excellent idea for the series Gary, thanks.
Thanks Ian - yeah, I have the 5kW version of that, but the charge rate is limited to 3.6kW - sometime's I'm pulling 6kW so a bit of a problem :-/ Will think about a video looking into these rates in more detail... thanks
You're far too kind, Chas. But wait till you see my programming skills :-) (Actually, I used to be very good at that, but the world is changing fast and I can't keep up with it!)
Hi Gary, thanks for taking the time to explain the electricity tariffs, I just signed up to Octopus Flux (used your referral code) after installing a bit more solar and new batteries. All going well until by DNO refused to allow me to export any power from my battery to the grid, this seems counter intuitive to the aim of balancing the grid and put a spoke into my calculations. Do you know if there is an appeals process?
Thank you so much for considering me when joining up with Octopus Energy - that means a lot to me. And sorry to hear that your DNO is blocking you from exporting to the grid from your battery. In case I missed it, could you tell me about your situation again please? Did you already have panels and are now adding a battery?
First class video again Gary, many thanks. I have 9 KW of PV 2 x 8.2 KW Givenergy batteries + an EV and a PHEV. Being on the early - high- FiT the calculation for me is a trade off between which tariff and the FiT. Will be investigating Octopus as my tie in with EDF expires soon. Having an EV tariff has enabled me to charge the batteries through the dark winter months - its the way to go.
Hi Alan, that's an impressive setup - I'm jealous! And being on FiT is just a dream as well. Your early investment must be paying off incredibly well :-) As you can probably tell, I love everything about Octopus Energy - they're just doing things right. I'm wedded to the mobile industry with my career, but if I wasn't (and who knows what might happen in the future), I'd be interested in working for those guys!
Alan, I have a similar set up to you (17.5 storage and on FIT) but without the PHEV. if you can't move to Octopus Intelligent (they will only deal with certain cars and EV Chargers, I have Merc and Zappi, neither of which are compatible) then look at British Gas Electric Driver. their price is the same as Octopus Go but you get a 5 hour window to charge instead of 4. For me that means I can fully charge the batteries every night in winter and get 35kWh into the car.
Great video Gary. Looking forward to your new utility (found the last one very helpful). My rough calculations show Flux is absolutely the way to go for us. Our system doesn’t allow force discharge of the battery, but even without that I think it will be a real winner.
Thanks, Stephen. Yeah, I guess all the batteries are different. But at least you can hopefully cover your load with the battery during the peak period, and the sun should still be around to provide some profitable export. :-)
Not sure the short charging period will work on a smaller system , 3.6 kw inverter and 4kwp panels , during the winter with much reduced solar input. I think we would need to switch to a better charging period for this time.
@@GaryDoesSolar also the other thing to consider is battery temperature. I went through this winter and on a couple of nights my batteries went under 5c (4.5c) and I noticed thier charge rate during eco7 dropped sharply to just 10A per battery (about 500watts) i have 4 batteries (20kwh) but a drop in charge rate to 2kwh would take 9 hours to charge from the maximum discharge level of 90% (a battery SOC of 10%) Not enough time to charge during economy7 and definitely not enough to charge during 4 hour octopus go or 3 hour octopus flux. Conversely at 13c, my batteries can charge at their full sustained 0.5c rate 50A per battery (2.7kw) meaning 10.8kw which is beyond my inverter charge rate. The key note from this, most batteries are installed in a loft or garage.... uninsulated... so exposed to night cold. Its something to consider as you may mot be able to charge fast enough in tbe charging window.
I have PV/Battery. Solax. On Flux. During the darker months I charge my batteries during the off peak hours. I then let my batteries discharge from 5am. I then force them to "top up" for 2 hours prior to the higher rate. This ensures I am keeping my batteries full at all times and exporting the maximum to the grid; and that my batteries are depleted during the higher rate hours. I have a 9KW battery systerm but wish I had gone for double that size as my family use a lot of power in the evening. If you can afford it, go big on battery stroage.
Hi, great video, at moment trying to decide whether to increase battery storage from just 5kwh. Watching with interest as at moment cannot financially justify increase. Thanks
Thanks for the kind words - and my plan is to suggest some options in a future video (hopefully not too far away).... I have a GivEnergy inverter/battery myself and it seems to work well.
Thanks for this video Gary and for your work in the spreadsheet. This couldn’t have come at a better time for me as this week we have had PV + batteries installed and I am just awaiting the paperwork that will allow me to switch to Flux.
Great explanation of Octopus Flux and it's potential benefits. I've only recently installed solar / battery and I'm looking how to use it effectively. Are you planning to give an hints/tips on how to configure Inverters in order to be able to obtain the benefits you describe from Octopus Flux?
Hi, lovely video as always, thank you 🙂. I have solar and battery, the GE AIO and am moving to Octopus Flux. I want to automate my system to achieve the following... 1: 2am to 5am - charger to say 100% (the low-cost period) 2: 5am to 4pm - use solar plus battery but keeping sufficient charge to cover the peak period requirement. This is where it would be great if I could set the battery to not fall below say 50%, but only between these times. 3: 4pm to 7pm - use battery only to avoid the high peak rate period. 4: 7pm to 2am the following day - continue to use battery down to the reserve level. The above cycle to repeat every day without any input from the user, must be a set once and forget. I can achieve quite a lot of this in the GE portal but not all of it (do need to dive into the Remote Control settings). Have you any suggestions? Thanks
Thanks for the great feedback! :-) Worth also watching this video I made on how to get the best from tariffs like Octopus Flux - could give you different ideas: ruclips.net/video/dGpsN8-1Fx4/видео.html For some information on how to program your GE settings, this video might be good: ruclips.net/video/DDDd_j8O5s4/видео.html
Thanks Scott - yeah, it does take quite a few hours, but I'd like to think I'm getting a bit quicker at it (I'm sure the reality is I'm not though - lol). I'll keep the videos coming...
Gary, have looked into V2H, V2G, V2L and V2X? I'm wondering if that would be a viable solution for a home battery instead of the ones you've shown in your videos.
Hi Paul, it's on my list - and I'd be focusing on V2G with a little but of V2H... Just waiting for support for those technologies to get a little more traction first...
Very informative. Thanks for the spreadsheet, and thanks to everyone who has helped you to develop it. I asume you will be tackling Octopus Agile soon too. Is there anything I need to know regarding choice of hybrid inverter to make best use of that tariff automatically. I understand that GivEnergy and Fox are compatible, but do they integrate equally with these smart tariffs?
Hi Jeremy, my pleasure - glad you're getting something out of my videos. Just to let you know, the spreadsheet has now be superseded by this web utility I made - far easier to use and more informative: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/ Regarding the batteries, I can only share my experiences with GivEnergy as this is the only battery solution I've worked with (my own solution). They have facilities that allow you to force charge and discharge at certain times of the day, so great for tariffs like Octopus Flux. They also have support for Octopus Agile, but I've never tried using that yet.
Thanks, a great explanation. I can’t have solar, drive an EV, currently on Octopus Go. I’ve enquired about battery installation but it seems Octopus doesn’t do them without solar. Any recommendations for a battery installation?
You're most welcome :-) Now, you can add easily an AC-coupled battery to your house - you'll just need to get hold of an installer (doesn't have to be Octopus). Worth checking out various solar forums like facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466 to see if a battery without solar is worth it... Good luck!
Great video - thanks. We’re currently on Go as we have an EV. I’m considering solar and batteries but it’s so difficult now to work out break even etc because of tariffs like this! Hurts my head!
Great video thanks Gary. We got solar and tesla powerwall last September and were able to get onto the Octopus Tesla Energy plan which is soooo good from a money point of view as it's fully symmetrical. On sunny days we make a really large profit on energy exported. However we got a notification when they launched Flux that this plan was now discontinued and we'll be forced to change in September. It's quite unfortunate because the tariff was one of the main reasons we decided to shell out for solar, the payback was going to be around 10-15 years but now with flux I think we may be out of pocket with the solar. However, at least we're helping the grid and the environment so I guess it's still worth it :)
Hi Matt - thanks for the kind words :-) Yeah, a shame they're stopping the Tesla Energy Plan - I guess you've had a good run at it. You might surprise yourself with Flux though, although having an EV does make it a little less lucrative. Might be worth you watching this video, where Anthony (who also has a Tesla) carries out an in-depth financial analysis of different Octopus tariffs: ruclips.net/video/kWoBzds07Y0/видео.html
Hi Aaron - thank you so much for the super thanks - very kind of you, and I'm very happy to have been able to help you. I'll keep the videos coming... :-)
A nice explanation on the Flux tariff options.. I had a look are your spreadsheet, but at the moment it doesn't really manage to cater for the setup I have in place. I have 7.5kw of generation, 7.5kwh of battery, and an inverter that can push about 3.6kw to charge. I have another inverter that can push the excess solar to the grid when the batteries are charging at capacity. This is all getting a bit complex for Excel formulae... What I need to do is pull down the raw information from the Invertor and generation logs... This will tell me the flow power to / from the grid (AC side) and the flow through the invertor (DC side and conversion to home side AC)... Those two curves on a daily pattern tell me my actual usage stats, and I can code that to calculate the costs, and allow for the usage of the Flux tariff to calculate what i would have got from it for a given period... At a gut feel though, I think that this tariff is pretty good for a house with solar and battery (though I question if that's essential) but the reduced low rate period, (3 hrs) and higher cost of that minimum period (compared to cheapest EV charging options), basically mean that this is not a tariff maximising benefits for a home with an EV that needs a lot of home charging. It might be ok for a low - medium useage of EV's..
Hi Andrew, yeah - that's quite a complex setup. You're right though, the spreadsheet is getting out of hand, so I'm currently coding up a webpage to replace it... So far, it's not looking too bad. I agree with your thoughts on Flux.
Thanks so much, I had my 4.2kw/h solar/batteries (12kw) installed in Oct 22 and as yet have not looked at the export but whilst I am away on holiday monitoring my battery charging/export of energy. I have just filled in the SEG forms with octopus and currently on Octo Go Tarrif with the 7.5p import cost 12.30-0430. using this time to fill batteries but from about 10am I am exporting as the batteries are full. This is excellent modelling but I still need to get head around numbers, and from this video best I stay on my Go until September when it expires, although I am going to generate quite a lot of energy - will fill 80% on battery and charge my Mini via Zappi..
Hi Tony, you're very welcome. I've not long released a web version of the utility that you might like to try as well: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
No worries, Dan. How are you finding the world of being a RUclipsr? It's quite involved, yeah? I'll release the utility very soon, just a couple of things to tidy up - it'll have a massive disclaimer on it too, as I'm sure there will still be bugs! :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar Very involved but I’m really enjoying it! Hoping to get another one out this weekend. Definitely appeals to my creative side, although I need to get the production quality up a lot I think. What do you use for editing?
@@DanEVSolar7 I used to use iMovie, which is ok, but I now use Final Cut Pro, which is really powerful, and relatively easy to use (lots of options and controls, which are quite scary in the beginning though!). All my graphics and animations are PowerPoint, would you believe. Amateur, but they come out not too bad. I think I need a better microphone though...
Hi, I have just found your channel and find interesting, I wish there had been a similar amount of detail when we got solar panels 7 years ago. One point to note is that for people who are still on the uk gov FIT scheme, the PV export price we get is ~5p per kwh (it depend on when you entered the scheme) which is significantly less than the current octopus rate (~15p per kwh) BUT I get paid based on a "deemed" export of 50% of my generation when in fact we only export about 10% of our generation, so this alters the economics.
Hi Carol, thanks for sharing your experiences with FiT. It was a great scheme, and kick started consumer solar for the UK. Not available to anyone today, but Tariffs like Flux provide something close(ish) :-)
great vid - and thanks for the spreadsheet - who doesnt like a spreadsheet after all. Made the switch to Flux ealier today and its clearly aimed at the home owner micro generators- good for Octopus, and as you detailed each user shifting the curve slightly benefits everyone and Octopus. Ive set my inverter initially to export only for just one of the peak hours, time will tell if i can be bolder, but i seem to be runnig at twice your nighttime and nothing is running rate.
Thanks Charlie - I think my spreadsheet is starting to get out of hand though - lol. I'll likely code it up on a website instead... I didn't understand the very last part of your comment - could you restate please?
Gary, really clear content, formalised what i thought i understood. Friend and i decided to buy identical systems. Ordering next week 16x400W, GivEnergy 5.0 inverter & 9.5kW battery. For 2 systems supplier provides scaffolding FOC. 👍
@Chelle Coulson a touch under £14k. That includes discount for buying 2 systems and the company offered me £250 introduction free for the 2nd customer, which i further discounted £125 each system 🤣
@Chelle Coulson just for info, we both decided that we wanted to buy/install through a local company, rather than a web based entity. The company we will order from mentioned that they are frequently approached by said entity to quote to install their system or rectify. We're in Dorset, not sure if that makes any difference 🤔
This looks good. So basically you are saying that this combination of solar, battery and energy tariff is making money for you. Could this be an option for everyone? Also outside of Oxford, the UK? How is the situation in Ireland, Holland, Germany, Poland, Finland and Greece? Gibraltar, Malta, the Falklands???
Thanks for taking the time to watch, Freek. So, in the UK, I would say there is the opportunity to make money using the Flux tariff. In other countries, it depends on whether the energy providers in those countries off similar tariffs. If they do, then the same opportunity applies.
Great video. I find all your videos useful and informative. I have a question. I have a battery free pv installation from 2010 and I’m on the FIT scheme on 43p per kWh. I think this means that I make money from the Solar energy I make even if I use it. Do you think a battery would make financial sense and is it still the best tariff in 2023. Thanks. M.
Hi Mikis, you are SO lucky to be on the FiT scheme - it rewards you in a way that no solar tariff available today can :-) It's difficult to answer your question without knowing all the details about your installation. And I cannot provide you advice because of the liability that exists even if I give that advice free. If you can wait a month or two, I'm planning to make a video and calculator for battery ROI.... Thanks btw, for your very kind words about my videos :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar Hey Gary. I found out the answer to my own question and I think the answer is definitely add an AC battery to my home. I found the answer here. ruclips.net/video/BjJhjsZRUMk/видео.html&si=kDRF7zsW7Oct8_Pc
Thanks Gary, I've got a 5kw Solis inverter & 14 375W PV panels,a myenergi Eddi for my Hot Water (instead of using my Oil Boiler to heat the water) and a Solax X1-Fit inverter and 3, 5kw Solax batteries for now I'm going to stay on Octopus Agile and Outgoing Agile Octopus for my export having only had the system fully installed this winter and waiting forever for the DNO permission I'm not actually sure what my Leccy Bill will be in Summer but so far I'm very pleased with my system, I'll keep watching your Channel to see how you get on with Octopus Flux,hopefully it's the right Tariff for your family 🙏
Just signed up safely for the flat rate Outgoing Octopus 12M Fixed (having 6kW system with 6kW battery, 3.6 inverter). Apart from winter season I am definitely self sufficient even over night. Would FLUX be a better option in this case? And Would anyone recommend switching back to flat tarrif for winter season so we don't overpay when we have to pull more energy from the grid?
Hi there, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466) Good luck!
That's very kind of you, Ecobubl - and just to let you know, the solar and battery installation you fitted for me week before last is performing amazingly :-) I'll be making a video about it shortly...
Thank you for your very informative video. I have been considering a battery only installation but have been unable to get a straight answer to the question 'Will Octopus allow me to have the Flux tariff'. Do you have any information on this? Interested to try out your SS for my scenario.
Thanks Chris - much appreciated :-) Octopus market the tariff as being for "solar and battery" users. And in the FAQ (octopus.energy/smart/flux/ - near bottom of page), it states that solar is a prerequisite: *Am I eligible to join Octopus Flux?* You'll need to have: A smart meter providing us with half-hourly readings A solar system and home battery A copy of the MCS document for your solar system Confirmation your local energy network was notified of your installation
Thanks Keith - I plan to cover Agile in part two of this series - I really like the fact that Octopus is so forward thinking on tariffs Being paid for taking load off the grid sounds marvellous to me! :-)
Great worksheet Gary. I did notice an possible error in one of your formulas (in column M) which seems to miscalculate the discharge rate of the battery during the "FC" period. I believe if the battery is in this mode, then it will be forced into a charge rate so there should be no discharge possible, however your current formula seems to think there is a discharge value if the consumption is high over this period (as it is with me with my immersion heater and EVs charging at this time). I've made a quick update to cell M4 (and copied down) to adjust for this: =IF($K4="FD",-MIN(MAX(MAX($C$7-$J4,0),0),N3*(1-$C$11),$C$13),IF($K4="FC",0,-MIN(MAX(H4-J4,0),N3*(1-$C$11),$C$13))). May need some sense checking though. Keep up the great work.
Hi Mat - thanks, and also thank you for taking the time to look into this bug! :-) What I'll do is update the spreadsheet and upload it as a new version that people can use! Since publishing, I've been working (this week) on a coded web version - which has completely different logic, but I can compare the output of this new version against your suggested change as a sanity check! Thanks again :-)
Actually, Mat - is it M4 or K4? Maybe the best way is if you could email me a copy of the spreadsheet with your change in it, if that's ok? Send to "me" then at symbol then my channel name (all one word) followed by dot com. Many thanks! :-)
At present I am on the Octopus Tesla tariff, but that is coming to an end late this year/early next. With PV and a Powerwall 2 + an EV6 it will be challenging to find the best replacement ! I will be following your series on this with great interest !!
Great work again Gary. I am on Octopus Flux and trying to work out whether to use my battery to minimise import (and take export benefit as a second priority) or to maximise export and accept some import after the evening peak (as your utility does). I haven't yet convinced myself that the latter is worth the extra battery throughput and degradation for relatively modest extra import income. Looking forward to your utility. My present strategy is a mix of the above. I avoid import before dawn by charging to at least 20% overnight (may not need to charge at all if evening consumption is low) and I avoid import after the evening peak by only force discharging to >45%. This works ok for my system with the present level of sunshine, but as I say above, I am not sure what the optimum strategy is.
Thanks for the kind words :-) Yeah, developing an optimum strategy is really hard - I guess the only real way is a bit of trial and error (and a lot of data analysis!). One feedback I had on the utility is that because of the "power factor" of certain appliances, 1kWh of charge into a battery might not provide 1kWh of useful power for appliances with a low power factor (anything with a motor it seems). I'll need to look into this...
@@GaryDoesSolar you don't need to worry about power factor. Poor power factor (e.g. a motor with poor power factor compensation) means the load has to be provided with reactive power (kVAr) in addition to active power (kW). Reactive power only exists for AC systems so the "real" energy kWh is provided by the DC system (PV or battery) and the "imaginary" reactive "energy" kVArh is provided by the grid connection or produced out of thin air by the magic of your inverter (at the expense of slightly increased inverter losses)
Thanks for the video. How would I go about reconfiguring the powerwall2 to automatically export between 4-7pm? I see a ‘backup reserve’ option although that seems to be for grid outages. There is a utility rate plan setting which allows 3 time periods. Currently the PW uses that to automatically charge at GO times. Would it use that to discharge to grid if I entered a 3rd ‘peak’?
Hmmm, I've just had a read of this page on the Tesla site, and it doesn't look to me that you can force discharge a PowerWall unfortunately :--( ... unless anyone else knows different? www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/powerwall-modes
Hi Gary, Thanks for another in depth and thorough video. (Do I detect a fellow Engineer? 😀). I have just had a 6.7 kWp array, GivEnergy 5kW inverter and 9.5kW battery installed. My charge / discharge rate seems limited to 2.6kW so I can't fully charge / discharge in the 3 hour Flux / Peak windows. You have a similar setup, but with two of these batteries. (@7:11) Is your charge / discharge rate of 3.6 kW per battery, or in total, perhaps now limited by the inverter?
Hi Nick, thanks very much for the kind words - great to get this kind of feedback :-) Now, yeah I have pretty much the same setup as you! My inverter and batteries are Generation 2, which means it can charge and discharge at 3.6kW. If I remember correctly, the previous generation had a charge/discharge limit of 2.6kW. I've set things so that I'm charging all 3 hours of the Flux off-peak period, up to a maximum of 40%. This means I get sufficient cheap energy if the day is not so sunny, and I still have more that half the battery to charge via solar. Maybe you could do something similar, perhaps?
A brilliant summary video Gary. Very much enjoyed it. Looking forward to working through your back-catalogue and future videos. Clear, factual and inspiring. I'm in the middle of moving to Flux and its exciting being part of the future. Unfortunately we only have a 3.1 kWp array and 3.5 kWh battery for now but planning to roughly double both once we get an electric car. We got a power diverter when we had the installation but as per your other video I'm now wondering whether it makes sense to run it now we are on Flux.
Hi Toby, thanks for taking the time to comment (and also for the great feedback!) Hope you enjoy my other videos! I've been on Flux for a few days now and I can't believe that I'm being paid so much to export! I'm almost feeling guilty about it! Lol I'm guessing your current array and battery is in line with your electricity usage, so I wouldn't worry too much. You'll still be exporting a lot as the days get sunnier. And yeah, on the solar diverter - it's a real shame that with high export rates, it longer makes any financial sense at the moment, but who knows, if electricity prices start to come down (and consequently, export rates come down below 12p/kWh) then they could come back into fashion...
Hi Gary , I have been with Octopus for sometime now, i have a 4 kw solar panel system and 7.8 kw of battery storage , currrently on Octopus outgoing using Econ.7. I have expressed interest with Octopus Fliux but as yet undecided. The seg rates look attractive however the import rates at peak times are quite high and thats a bit of an issue however during the summer months could be well wortth it and maybe switch back arouind October time. Seems like no brainer but is there a catch. By the way your videos are great .
Thanks for the kind words. I’m thinking that because you’ve got a good ratio of your battery vs array size, that you should be able to charge enough to get you over the peak period, more than half of the time? And any costs you do incur over the peak period will be offset by some of your export revenue? And depending on your battery, you might be able to get it to hold charge until the peak period?
This was very interesting . At long last we're getting a smart meter. After an 8 month wait. My question is how easy is it to program the kit to follow your example of when to charge the battery, when to use the battery and when to feed the grid. Presumably you need to buy kit that will do it. I'm lucky we are starting from scratch. I'm in my late 70s so need a quickish payback. Thanks generally for your videos. Very interesting and informative. With the smart meter on it's way I can start planning.
Hi Allan, great that you've finally got your smart meter sorted! Now, it depends on the kit you buy. For example, if you had a Tesla Powerwall, you can program it like this chap did in a video here: ruclips.net/video/VrKSKPrdhak/видео.html Good luck with whatever setup you put in place, and thanks for the kind words about my videos - I'll keep them coming! :-)
Hello Gary I am enjoying your videos, I live in Ireland, unfortunately we do not have octopus, but we do have some cheap rates. Can you charge two batterys at the same time.Thank you Tom.
Hi Tom, great to hear that you're enjoying my videos - I'll keep them coming. Octopus is expanding all the time and I'm sure it won't be long before they're present where you live. In the meantime though, keep an eye out on all the providers you do have there - they're starting to wake up to the needs of solar, battery and EV owners and are building tariffs to suit... Yes, you should be able to charge two batteries at the same time, provided they are controlled by the same string inverter. The inverter will ensure the batteries remain at roughly the same level of charge each.
Great video, Gary. I have plenty of solar and a SolarEdge inverter + battery, but am stymied by two issues. Firstly, my utility provider won’t install a smart meter as the 4G signal is apparently inadequate. And secondly, SolarEdge don’t have workable time-of-use software yet.😢
Thanks Alan. Isn't it incredible that so many manufacturers are not anticipating how the market is changing...? I've only been looking at this market for the last 8 months, and even I can see that equipment needs to have tight integration into other equipment around them, energy tariffs, the weather forecast. That's one of the reasons I went with GivEnergy - they seem to get it. Hopefully SolarEdge will wake up...
Hi Gary. May I take some screenshots from your video on tariffs to use at a presentation I’m giving at my village hall. I would of course reference your channel. Rob
wow what great info, I've ordered solar and will have a 10.5Kw battery plus I have a EV so this makes things really worth it I might think about getting a 3rd battery as well
Thank you for the feedback - very much appreciated! And great that you're starting your solar journey :-) Haha - yeah, big battery installations might become all the rage soon!
Thanks for the brilliant explanation of flux. We are thinking of changing from economy 7 to flux. Do you have a table to work out how long it will take to pay them off? And which tariff is best for me. Thanks
You're very welcome, Dawn :-) So, I am working on a utility at the moment that can give you a view of how well your setup will perform with Flux (or other tariffs). I'll post this link after this comment, but in case RUclips automatically deletes links, just look in the video description for it. You could also take a look at another video I did a while back on calculating your payback period. Again, I'll try to post the link below.
Really enjoying the videos. My install was commissioned in June after a 1 year wait. 4.4KW (12 x 370w) panels, .6 KW Giv Hybrid Inv (gen1), and Giv 9.5KW battery. The Inv limits the battery charge rate and the supply to the house to 2.6KW/h, which is quite limiting. You are higher at 3.6KW/h, but I think 2.6 is too limiting for adding another battery to my system. I think however adding a GivEnergy all in one would work for me, as it connects directly to consumer unit, can be charged from grid or solar, and gives 6KW/h charge/discharge and think this would be on top of my 2.6 from the inverter. However, I think it may need a G99 application, and pricing may be high just now as only released - would be interested in your thoughts on GivAllInOne.
Also already on Flux, but thinking Agile might be better for me in winter - when not likely to export, and maybe take advantage of plunge pricing to charge battery, and charge cheaply through night. 3 hrs on flux with 2.6 charge rate I cannot fully charge battery.
Hi George, thanks for your kind words on the videos :-) And yes, you're right, the charge/discharging rates on GE products are not great. But adding a new battery/inverter as AC-coupled will increase that. I'll be covering this and other things in a follow-up video I'm making on batteries...
A really well explained presentation, thanks Gary. I have solar panels with a battery and also have an EV. Do you know if you have to have a dedicated EV charger to benefit from the Octopus flux tariff as I get by with just trickle charging from a normal 3 pin 240v socket?
Hi Tom, thanks very much for the great feedback 😀 No, you don’t need an EV charger to go onto the Flux tariff. In fact, you don’t even need an EV. You can continue with the charger you have if you want - no problem 👍🏻
Thanks for another great video Gary. If you use flux to maximise export daily, will you not decrease your life of your battery? I can see the benefit of having 3 hrs to fill my 2x 5.2kw batteries as I don't have an EV. 👍
You're most welcome! :-) Those with solar installations with a battery will find that their battery is charging and discharging at least once a day anyway. So, when purchasing a battery, it's always wise to look at the number of cycles warranted, based on 365 cycles every year. And yeah, Flux should easily fill this batteries, and during the summer, the sun will hopefully do that as well! :-)
The best tariff to use depends a great deal on the solar and battery installation specifics and also usage specifics. I'm sorry, but I can't give individual advice. There are many forums online, including "Octopus Go, Intelligent Octopus & Octopus Flux chat" on Facebook, where you can get advice. Good luck!
Hi Gary, Enjoying these videos very much. Thanks. I have used the spreadsheet If I have the FIT export from pre-2012 is there anything that I can do to maximise the export or is this only for SEG clients? Cheers John
Hi John, thanks for the great feedback. Now, the spreadsheet is only for the SEG scenario, I'm afraid - only because I don't know too much about how FiT works.
Hi Gary, I have just installed a 6kw solar array and I was wondering if you had any utilities or tips to help with choosing a UK tariff suitable for my needs? We've just switched to octopus, and I have an EV. I was looking at Octopus outgoing to begin with but after having the solar panels in for a while the car is taking most of the excess solar. Any help or guidance appreciated.
Hi Steve, worth checking out this group on Facebook, which should give you the answers you're looking for: facebook.com/groups/567513347297329 Good luck! :-)
Excellent video and web utility, THANKS! One question on the utility: when modelling an Autumn quarter using a max average array power generation of 2.4kWp with a 9.6kWh battery, using a 3.8kW inverter produces a higher daily profit figure than using a 5kW inverter. Would you expect this? Just at the quote stage for installation and trying to assess whether the extra 1.2kW and a 12 week delay for DNO approval is worthwhile.
Thanks for the very kind words, Ray :-) Now, on the face of it, I would not expect a lower-powered inverter to result in a greater profit for the day. I just tried those numbers here and there is no difference in profit (as the solar generation doesn't get near even the lower inverter limit). Could you try with the latest version of the utility please and let me know... thanks!
Just modelled the same numbers in the new version and clearly a better result with the 5kw inverter as one would expect. The new version looks great BTW. I see that you now don't have to calculate the maximum achievable array output by quarter. Is this now included within the utility based on array orientation entered under the Solar Array Performance box? On that point, my planned array will achieve a total of 6kWp but with 4kWp from the directly south facing roof and 2kWp from the directly east facing roof. How is is best to model that performance in the utility please? Many thanks Gary!
@@rayscogings3700 Hi Ray, great to hear that the utility is working for you! Now, yeah - modelling two arrays on different orientations is actually quite tricky. Currently, the solar model is only optimal for a single South-facing array, but it's something I'm thinking about for a more powerful utility down the line.
Question. Hi Gary enjoy the videos. Where did you find the Octopus Eco7 tarriff please? I have a "Smart meter" so dont know if it is available to me but it look's a good bet if it is. I have a 60kWh battery pack that I am struggling to charge on the "Octopus Go" tarriff during the 4 hours using a 100A single phase supply, as I also obviously charge my EV in the same time period! Thanks.
Actually, the 10p off-peak rate for Eco7 I quoted in the video was incorrect - it is actually 16p, I've been told, so that may make the tariff less appealing? Here is a link to the tariff: octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/what-is-an-economy-7-meter-and-tariff/
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes the one I found was 16p also. No problem. Thanks. Looks like I will stick with "Go". I'm paying 7.5p/kWh at the moment but no doubt that will double when I need to renew. Pity no one else does a reasonable price EV tarriff! Thanks again for the informative video's.
Thanks Gary. Looking forward to the tool. My own analysys using a year's half hourly data shows that IO is slightly cheaper than GO for my usage with off peak EV charging, but that may just be down to the nature of my domestic usage. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the best tarrif for EV, panels and battery (appreciating that panel generation and battery size affect the sums). Keep up the good work!
You're very welcome - I'll post a link to the tool later today - it's still buggy so will come with a HUGE disclaimer :-) I reckon Octopus Go still remains the best tariff for those with solar, battery and EV - not least because EVs have batteries 10-15 times the size of a typical solar battery. So, not much energy will ever be exported... :-/
Hi Gary, an update, on contacting the DNO (Northern Powergrid) myself they have agreed to let me export from my battery as well, seems that they have updated their policy so good news! - I had two solar installations and have added batteries and a new solar install with battery.
Here in South Australia the off-peak is 10am to 3pm when all the rooftop solar swamps the grid. On some days, rooftop solar output exceeds demand and some inverters have to be turned off to reduce generation. On the wholesale market, electricity is often negatively priced between 10 and 3. Our problem is a lack of cheap power during peak and overnight.
@@GaryDoesSolar for people on wholesale (almost nobody) a battery makes sense. On normal retail plans they are too expensive and will never payback the investment.
Currently I am procrastinating if moving to Agile in January is a good or bad thing, but looking at this just moving to flux as I wait should be a no brainer, right? 5 kWh battery with 9 kWh average usage per day? Fill it at night, top up an hour before peak pricing, I should be better of than flexible but in no case worth than on it, if I get it right.
So I’m on Agile at the moment and am planning to move back to Flux around Feb/March. If I had an EV though (one day - sigh) I’d move to IOG for the full year. Good luck with whatever you decide! 👍🏻
Thanks for the kind words :-) If you'd asked be that question say 10 years ago, I'd suggest solar would not be seen as a value-add to a house sale - not least because the average person would not have understood what it was all about. But over the last couple of years, with dramatically rising energy costs being acutely on the minds of most of the population, more and more people are now understanding the benefits of having solar. Anyone selling a house, should easily be able to demonstrate the financial savings of the solar equipment installed (though data and bills etc.) and in my mind, that for the prospective buyer, should equate to a notional increase of value on the house itself.
I’m certainly looking at switching over from Agile to Flux. Export rates on Agile are much lower this year, but that in turn is probably a forecast for what flux tariffs will look like in a few months time. Flux is certainly a good deal for the coming summer. But I’ll still switch to Go for winter EV charging.
Hi Anthony, great to hear from you - hope all is well :-) Yeah, I'm hearing that wholesale rates are starting to lower over the longer term. It all feels like investing in stocks and shares!! Lol Would be great to hear your thoughts on Flux in a video :-)
Main problem is during winter or poor solar production. 3 hour charging window at night limits on appliance usage. A 300L water tank will take more than 3 hours to fully heat up to 60c. This tariff only works if you retain the battery charge for peak use and hope your solar can retain/ aid its charge. Cloud / weather and winter is its enemy
That's true, and it might not always be possible to do that. You might be interested to watch this video I made on solar diverters - might cause you to think about the benefits of using that (I used to be a fan of them, but now I'm not): ruclips.net/video/6zc1g1bz0eA/видео.html
Hi Gary, loving your videos, thank you! Your calculator spreadsheet seems potentially useful but as you acknowledge in your video, it doesn't yet work for Octopus Flux as it only accepts 2 of the 6 figures from an Octopus Flux quote. Personally I'm initially looking at a storage only installation (13kW battery + 3.68kW hybrid inverter) to take advantage of the difference between the Flux import and Peak export rates (with the hybrid inverter to support potential future investment in solar) so I'm looking to model that configuration to see how it plays out over time and whether it makes financial sense. So here's hoping that you will be updating your spreadsheet so that it has inputs for all 6 of the rates found in an Octopus Flux quote so that the spreadsheet fully takes them all into account. It's also missing DoD (usually 90%, but does vary) and for future proofing should also allow specifying the number of Flux and Peak hours. It might be better to allow the user to specify the import & export rates for each hour of the day, allowing usage not only for Octopus Flux but also any other tariff where the rates vary by hour, which would work for future tariffs which could potentially have more than 3 different sets of rates.
Hi Marcus, thanks for the great feedback! :-) Now, the spreadsheet is already populated with the pricing for all six tariff periods for Octopus Flux (normal, off-peak, peak) in fact. Check the values in columns N and R - you should see the different prices depending on the time. Each hour can have its own price (for both import and export). Is that what you were referring to, or do I need to add something else to the spreadsheet? In any case, I'm working on a web app version, which is much easier to use, and if you'd like to try it out before I release, please email me on "me" followed by an at symbol, then my channel name (all one word) and finally dot com and I'll reply with a link.
Great video! Is there a way to automate all the charging and discharging? I have a 5kw array, with the Gen 2 Giv Energy Hybrid and 2x 5Kw batteries. The only downside I see for me is the Gen 2 Giv Energy charge rate is only 2.4Kw so I wouldn't be able to fill the batteries in 3 hours.
Hi Rohan, you're most welcome. Is this your inverter? www.givenergy.co.uk/pdfs/products/datasheets/giv-hy-3-6-gen-2.pdf In which case, the charge rate is 3.6kW, but maybe your batteries are limiting the rate? I also have GivEnergy products: a Gen 2 GivEnergy Hybrid (5kW) and 2 x 9.5kWh batteries. I can only charge about half the batteries as well, but I'm ok with that because as we head Into sunnier days, the increased solar will quickly fill the remainder.
@@GaryDoesSolar Sorry, I was wrong, I have the Gen 1 inverter which is limited to 2.4kw charge and discharge. I think they announced the 3.6kw version a month after I took delivery of mine!
Great utility tool! Could you explain how the utility determines solar output? Is this an average figure over a year? Obviously generation is higher and longer in summer and shorter in winter. Cheers!
Hi Benn, thanks :-) Now, I created a simple solar model in column G, which is simply the relative "power" of the sun throughout a sunny summer's day. Each hour has a value between 0 (no sun) and 1 (sun at highest point in the sky).The model is essentially a bell curve. The spreadsheet has no concept of the seasons, so it would be up to the user to set the "Max Array Output" to the most power that their array would put out for a particular time of year. I'm now coding up a utility that will do the same thing as the spreadsheet, but in a far better way. Will be released soon! :-)
Great video Gary ... and have been contemplating Flux since it came out recently. I don't have a need for EV charging ... and my solar setup sounds ideal for the tarriff. I'm running a Sunsynk Hybrid inverter 5.5kw with 10.24kw battery storage ... DC coupled to 16 off 405watt solar panels on two arrays, SE and SW facing. 6480kwp I 'll be testing you new calculator page just as soon as it's fully released. Looks a great tool in the decision making process.
Hi Gary, Thank you for the video, with your two batteries shouldn't you theoretical be able to charge/discharge a maximum of 7.2 kwh assuming your inverter could handle the load?, or can both batteries not discharge 3.6kwh each due to their setup or other factors?
You'd think that might be the case, but apparently with GivEnergy products, it's not :-( The only other option is for each battery to have its own inverter, but those inverters are only 3kW. What I might do longer term is get myself another hybrid (same model) so that each battery is only it's own inverter - then I could perhaps get to 7.2kW :-)
Gary I have a pv and battery system on Octopus Flux. Do you know how that will work when the winter savings sessions restart ? We don't have any grid consumption to cut back on.
Hi Peter, many people think that Flux will not be as lucrative in the winter, not least because of the short (3-hour) off-peak import period. I don't have any information on how the next saving sessions will operate. The National Grid is closing their consultation session tomorrow, so hopefully they'll provide some insight in the next couple of months or so: www.nationalgrideso.com/industry-information/balancing-services/demand-flexibility-service-dfs
Great video, I’m on the OI tariff at the moment and thinking about changing over to flux. However I’ve found 2 problems- Tesla won’t let you export a PW to the grid and secondly a PW is specifically designed to harvest solar therefore will probably need to be rewired such that the solar feed is upstream of the battery so the battery doesn’t know solar exists? I hope I’m wrong on both these! Do you know any different? Also with Flux you must opt out of the deemed 50% export if you are on a FIT scheme (UK) - this is a one way action. So for people wth big batteries perhaps IO is the best Winter tariff (I never use day time electricity) and Flux maybe better for the summer especially if you have west facing panels. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks Geoff - yeah, the internals of Tesla battery management seem to be shrouded in secrecy! And opting out of FiT deemed export is a huge decision to make - I'd likely stay with it, given it's a one-way move!
Hi Gary, What have you heard about Octopus bringing out a new "Intelligent Octopus Flux" tariff? It seems to be restricted to owners of GivEnergy batteries, has the same import and export rates, no cheap flex rate and I think that Octopus would control the importing and exporting of one's battery.
Hi Nick, so, it's still all quite new, and details are sparse. It's only open to GivEnergy battery owners initially, but that is expected to expand to other brands over time. The new tariff is currently being trialled with a subset of customers, to iron out any problems etc. I'll be making a video on the tariff shortly...
We’re an octopus customer in rented social housing with solar panels, but no batteries When we moved in the analog meter went backwards in bright sunshine However changing to octopus required a smart meter On bright days electricity is £0.00
It must have been so strange to see your analog meter going backwards! Great to hear you're not having to pay for electricity on those sunny days - every penny counts! :-)
Finally someone who explains all this confusing tariff charges in easy to understand language and graphics.... looking forward to more content...!
Hi Bob - thanks for this excellent feedback. Exactly what I’d set out to do, so great to hear I’m adding useful value 😀👍🏻
I've been with Octopus for about two and a half years but I changed to FLUX just over 2 weeks ago.
The results are FANTASTIC.
I have a 5.6kW array of panels and battery storage of 11.6kWh. My house is 100% electric - no gas.
The house has all the usual domestic appliances - two large freezers and two fridges, two electric ovens and an induction hob, washing machine, tumble dryer, two large screen tv's, a hot tub and a charge point for my EV. So our daily load is significant. I run an air source heat pump for heating and hot water.
Since changing to FLUX I have only used mains power for three hours a day - during the low cost FLUX cheap period between 2am and 5am.
So my batteries get charged during the day from the sun when it's not too cloudy and from the mains during the cheap rate period.
Each day I've used NO MAINS ELECTRIC between 5:01 am and 2:00 am the next day - it's all come from the batteries.
We haven't even needed to set timers to run stuff in the cheap period, except for charging the EV.
On three days it's been fairly cloudy all day and on four days it's been sunny
So I've used 139.9 kWh at my cheap rate of 19.4p (£27.14) and exported 29.22 kWh at 34.76p (£10.15).
So my total outlay including running my house, a hot tub, an air source heat pump and my EV has been £16.99 for the week.
The EV has used about 82kWh, 47kWh from the batteries or solar and 35kWh from the mains at 19.4p
So the car has cost me £6.79 to do 220 miles because most of the power was from the sun (via the house battery) and the rest from cheap rate power. If I was running my pervious car which did 50mpg on diesel that would have been around £30.00
My Octopus rates are as follows (they vary depending where you are in the UK)
Cheap rate - 19.4p (import) & 8.44p (export)
Standard rate - 32.4p and 21.4p
Peak rate - 45.26p and 34.76p
I think, looking at the temperatures and the amount of sun etc over the last week this will be a fairly average week for me over the year. so I can infer a total energy bill of around £880 a year or £73 a month.
These are rough figures so please don't nit-pick - I'm just trying to give an idea of how good this tariff is likely to be. I hope it hasn't been too boring or complicated.
Thanks for the video Gary - clear and easy to watch. Keep them coming
Thanks for sharing the details around your experience with Flux, Scott. Amazing results and I'm sure this will help persuade people who are not sure about Flux, to give it a go! Thanks also of the kind words about my videos :-)
how did you get that export rate?
Thanks for your statistical info, gives me confidence. One query is I've contacted Octopus by email concerned about my feed in tariff standing, I want to migrate the same rate from my recent move from SSE. Octopus have not replied yet after a week, so how does one communicate if I want to change my plan to Octopus Flux, or a plan that's suitable for my system??
I have much the same size system ,thou my battery is slightly smaller.. As I live alone I use very little power,so my battery is in use all the time ,I import around .25kwh a day and in the last month consumed 115kwh while exporting 138kwh via solar... I do not run an EV (in my case it just does not make financial sense to purchase a £30 000 car when my old car is running so well,) Hopefully by the end of the yearly solar season (which I think of at the end of Nov ,when I start cooking on gas ) I hope to have at least £200 in credit with Octopus , and with that cedit use to finance to dark days of winter,which is around 75days or back to cooking electric middle to late Feb....... The thing I am looking at is this, ,,Octopus standing charge for me is 42p aday,,(I think) per year thats £153 and thats just electric I think the gas is another £100 ayear, so £250 ayear down the swanny for what!!!!! I am considering switching to Utilta for my imported energy and keeping Octopus for my export.. Utilta has no standing charge and is a prepaid energy,,so in theroy I could buy and save credit with them or save the cash myself and just buy as needed..The price of there energy is more expensive but even so .I think it could work.... Regarding using your battery to store then export ,,, in my case I have to wish to do that,,I am 67 and want my battery to last my lifetime.. so I do not want too work it that hard...Treat your battery like a baby care for it and hopefully it will last ,,,regards
@@ExplodingPiggyOctopus.
Many thanks for your informative video. I have joined octopus on the flux tarrif using your link to get both of us the £50 reward. Even in March I am powering numerous appliances and exporting up to 5KWh per day. So far I have not programmed my solar/battery system to download during the three hour cheap period but will do so soon
Many thanks for your informative videos I have subscribed
Hi Philip, you're most welcome - and thank you so much for using my referral code - that helps me an incredible amount :-)
Btw, I'm working on a web app version of the utility - it's still quite early but it's shaping up nicely and also fully functional. If you'd like to try it, please send me an email to "me" followed by an at symbol, then my channel name (all one word) and finally dot com, and I'll reply with a link to it.
Brilliant explanation of what’s available. I feel we’re in a ‘coming of age’ period for how and when we consume power and it’s positive impact on the grid. Driven by Octopus where the enablers are solar, home batteries and EV’s. Exciting times.
I have an EV and am still seriously considering a move to Flux from Intelligent. It helps that we have a SW facing roof where this lends itself to the peak period for export.
Great videos Gary. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
Thanks Jonathan - I totally agree. We're just getting started, I reckon :-) And yes, I was going to mention in the video that any roof with a partial/full West-facing aspect, would be very good for Flux (but I forgot!) :-)
Just had Solar installed and was looking for info on Tariffs, this is an excellent video made by a great presenter and an easy to understand description throughout
Thanks Geoff - it’s great to get feedback like this, as it means I’m on the right track 👍🏻😀
Thank you for a very useful video. I've just had 10 4.5kw panels and a 9.5 kw Givenergy battery fitted and managed to switch from Shell to Octopus with a new smart meter fitted yesterday. Flux sounds great however we have a 12kw electric boiler and have a high consumption rate especially in winter.
Ican see I'm going to need to study your chart carefully before I choose Flux or Agile. Thanks again
Hi Kevin, my pleasure to provide you with that - and now, instead of the spreadsheets, you can use my free online utility, which is easier to use. Try it here: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/ Good luck with whatever tariff you finally select! :-)
Thank you for this excellent breakdown
You're very welcome - glad it was useful to you :-)
Keep on doing what your doing Gary. We all need people like yourself. My battery system on a fully south facing roof went live last Friday. Aug 18. I have sat & watched your vids in a really serious manner & treated it all like doing a O/U degree. You pack a lot of info into your tutorials so by the same measure you put a lot of effort into what we see. Thank you. I will stand by my product selection "Cos its done now". My next minefield to cross is the Tariff affair. For next few months I will stay where I am just so I get to see actual savings. My point of reference. You manage to make a very complex & outwardly very boring subject interesting. Top man. Well done you.
Hi Rich, your comment has made my day - thank you so much for sharing! And good luck in your tariff analysis - it seems we're all spoilt for choice with smart tariffs these days (at least in the UK)...
Super work, well done. One strange thing: I'm on Octopus Go though we do NOT have an EV. We have up to 5kW from solar and a Tesla Powerwall 2. It looks like Flux should be the way to go, but we are very high energy users (I run a business from home, computers and other equipment run most of the time), so outside the peak of summer our battery will often be nearly flat by 4pm. How did we get onto Go without an EV? We were ported across from the Bulb EV tariff which didn't require an EV.
Thank you! Yeah, Flux is a pretty attractive tariff :-) IU've made available a web app now for people to see if Flux is right for them: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Great video for Octopus Flux well explained, i signed up yesterday at last some decent export rates, keep up the great work
Thanks Mark - really great to hear you liked it! :-)
Just to let you know, I've just released the next video in the series - this time on Agile...
Outstanding thank you so much for the video and for your utility. Extremely valuable!
Hi Jon, my pleasure! And very happy to help you out. I'm in the middle of developing a coded version of the spreadsheet, as the spreadsheet is too unwieldy now. Will release the link for it shortly :-)
*** NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION ***
1. Oops - it was pointed out to me that the "duck curve" is actually to do with solar production, not demand (sorry about that).
2. The Octopus Eco7 rates are slightly different than in the video - the off-peak rate of Eco7 is actually higher than Go.
3. I've been told that it's possible to have Octopus Go and and also to be signed up to Scottish Power's SEG export at 12p (with no extra standing charge). So that makes Go even better! 🙂
4. Here is a link to the utility I covered in the video - please feel free to use, but as it could contain bugs, no warranty is provided. Please use at your own risk: www.garydoessolar.com/utilities/fluxcalculator/index.html If anyone finds a bug, let me know and I'll try to fix. I'd also be happy to people to work on this, improving it. If you message me with a copy of your new version, I'll add it to the website, of course crediting you. 🙂
I've been asked how you can support me in my work if you're already on Octopus. I'm happy that you're getting something from my videos, but you can always buy me a "coffee" using this link: www.buymeacoffee.com/GaryDoesSolar - thank you! 🙂
Thanks Gary this will be really helpful for me. I'm currently getting quotes for different size arrays and batteries and was looking at how best to use the energy it'll create.
Glad I found this video. Convinced me to increase my battery size prior to agreeing installation.
I will look to increase my battery caoacity in future by adding additional batteries in parallel.
Seems like basically the objective financial answer for everybody is get the biggest battery you can afford at first, it will pay for itself using flux import/peak export.
Cheers Martin - yeah, and with battery prices coming down all the time, it's a really good investment. Not sure if you saw this video I made yet, talking about that, but here's the link: ruclips.net/video/3vwDrfuXyik/видео.html
Super helpful video Gary. Thank you.
Our Solar PV system went live just 3 weeks ago and is already reducing our grid consumption by almost 70% (and that in a not-so-sunny Dumfries!)
I am already thinking of adding a second battery to reduce our exports to grid and the Octopus Flux tariff will make a second battery even more financially viable. The only (slight) stumbling block is that I now need to really get my head around how to correctly set up my Solis invertor to deal with forced imports and exports!
Great news about your grid consumption - and hopefully a lot more sunshine over the coming months! Yeah, I'm hearing that quite a few brands of battery don't handle forced export very well, but forced import should be possible, given that off-peak rates have been around longer than solar batteries. Good luck in your research on Solis, and thanks for your kind words about my video :-)
Gary, your video was so informative. I am about to have solar and batteries installed and I think Flux will be ideal for me. Thanks for your hard work.
Hi there Jean - good luck with your installation, and all the best with your Flux tariff - I think it's a great one! My pleasure to bring you videos like this :-)
Great video, and a superb spreadsheet! Just the kind of thing I wanted to try to do but, seeing yours saved me SO MUCH effort, and made me realise my skills probably werent' good enough anyway! :) Donation on its way!
Hi Chris, thanks for taking the time to comment and also for the donation! :-)
I'm hoping to improve on the utilities over time!
Marvellous! I have been saying we need a big spreadsheet to understand all the variables, but I was daunted at the prospect. I will check out all your videos as the first one I found was packed with useful information.
Thanks Rob - great that you’re getting a lot of value from my work 😀👍🏻
I’ve got a GivEnergy 3.6kw inverter this charges at 2.5kw max. If I was thinking of installing solar/battery I’d get as big a battery that I could afford and a 5kw inverter. The inverter is the limiting factor.
Excellent idea for the series Gary, thanks.
Thanks Ian - yeah, I have the 5kW version of that, but the charge rate is limited to 3.6kW - sometime's I'm pulling 6kW so a bit of a problem :-/
Will think about a video looking into these rates in more detail... thanks
Excellent video. Cleared up many questions for me. Thanks.
Thanks Tarquin - very happy to have been of help to you! 😀
I have solar, battery and an EV, I moved to flux from the flexible tariff - so far so good :)
Great stuff, Tony - hope you can achieve good savings (and maybe even a little profit) :-)
Great Powerpoint skills *and* impressive Excel formula wrangling? Your skills have no limits Gary! :)
You're far too kind, Chas. But wait till you see my programming skills :-)
(Actually, I used to be very good at that, but the world is changing fast and I can't keep up with it!)
Hi Gary, thanks for taking the time to explain the electricity tariffs, I just signed up to Octopus Flux (used your referral code) after installing a bit more solar and new batteries. All going well until by DNO refused to allow me to export any power from my battery to the grid, this seems counter intuitive to the aim of balancing the grid and put a spoke into my calculations. Do you know if there is an appeals process?
Thank you so much for considering me when joining up with Octopus Energy - that means a lot to me. And sorry to hear that your DNO is blocking you from exporting to the grid from your battery. In case I missed it, could you tell me about your situation again please? Did you already have panels and are now adding a battery?
First class video again Gary, many thanks. I have 9 KW of PV 2 x 8.2 KW Givenergy batteries + an EV and a PHEV. Being on the early - high- FiT the calculation for me is a trade off between which tariff and the FiT. Will be investigating Octopus as my tie in with EDF expires soon. Having an EV tariff has enabled me to charge the batteries through the dark winter months - its the way to go.
Hi Alan, that's an impressive setup - I'm jealous! And being on FiT is just a dream as well. Your early investment must be paying off incredibly well :-) As you can probably tell, I love everything about Octopus Energy - they're just doing things right. I'm wedded to the mobile industry with my career, but if I wasn't (and who knows what might happen in the future), I'd be interested in working for those guys!
Alan, I have a similar set up to you (17.5 storage and on FIT) but without the PHEV. if you can't move to Octopus Intelligent (they will only deal with certain cars and EV Chargers, I have Merc and Zappi, neither of which are compatible) then look at British Gas Electric Driver. their price is the same as Octopus Go but you get a 5 hour window to charge instead of 4. For me that means I can fully charge the batteries every night in winter and get 35kWh into the car.
Great video Gary. Looking forward to your new utility (found the last one very helpful). My rough calculations show Flux is absolutely the way to go for us. Our system doesn’t allow force discharge of the battery, but even without that I think it will be a real winner.
Thanks, Stephen. Yeah, I guess all the batteries are different. But at least you can hopefully cover your load with the battery during the peak period, and the sun should still be around to provide some profitable export. :-)
Not sure the short charging period will work on a smaller system , 3.6 kw inverter and 4kwp panels , during the winter with much reduced solar input. I think we would need to switch to a better charging period for this time.
@@albennett9947 yeah, good point. It’s all fine in the summer, but winter is a different story…
@@GaryDoesSolar also the other thing to consider is battery temperature.
I went through this winter and on a couple of nights my batteries went under 5c (4.5c) and I noticed thier charge rate during eco7 dropped sharply to just 10A per battery (about 500watts) i have 4 batteries (20kwh) but a drop in charge rate to 2kwh would take 9 hours to charge from the maximum discharge level of 90% (a battery SOC of 10%)
Not enough time to charge during economy7 and definitely not enough to charge during 4 hour octopus go or 3 hour octopus flux.
Conversely at 13c, my batteries can charge at their full sustained 0.5c rate 50A per battery (2.7kw) meaning 10.8kw which is beyond my inverter charge rate.
The key note from this, most batteries are installed in a loft or garage.... uninsulated... so exposed to night cold.
Its something to consider as you may mot be able to charge fast enough in tbe charging window.
@@davespages Crikey - so many variables to consider, eh? I've made a note for any follow up videos I do on forced charging - thanks for highlighting!
I have PV/Battery. Solax. On Flux. During the darker months I charge my batteries during the off peak hours. I then let my batteries discharge from 5am. I then force them to "top up" for 2 hours prior to the higher rate. This ensures I am keeping my batteries full at all times and exporting the maximum to the grid; and that my batteries are depleted during the higher rate hours. I have a 9KW battery systerm but wish I had gone for double that size as my family use a lot of power in the evening. If you can afford it, go big on battery stroage.
Sounds advice! I just wish battery prices would come down quicker than they are - would allow people to consider those larger batteries, as you say.
Very good presentation. This new tariff does seem very attractive. Thanks
Thanks for the great feedback! :-)
Hi, great video, at moment trying to decide whether to increase battery storage from just 5kwh. Watching with interest as at moment cannot financially justify increase. Thanks
Hi Laurence, that's so great to hear - thank you! :-)
Excellent video! Which battery manufacturer/ system would you recommend to take advantage of these schemes most easily?
Thanks for the kind words - and my plan is to suggest some options in a future video (hopefully not too far away).... I have a GivEnergy inverter/battery myself and it seems to work well.
Thanks for this video Gary and for your work in the spreadsheet.
This couldn’t have come at a better time for me as this week we have had PV + batteries installed and I am just awaiting the paperwork that will allow me to switch to Flux.
You’re very welcome, Neil. Thanks for the kind words. And good luck with everything 👍🏻 😀
Great explanation of Octopus Flux and it's potential benefits. I've only recently installed solar / battery and I'm looking how to use it effectively. Are you planning to give an hints/tips on how to configure Inverters in order to be able to obtain the benefits you describe from Octopus Flux?
Thanks for the kind words, Stuart. Yeah, I'm keeping a wish list of future video ideas - and will add this to it :-)
Hi, lovely video as always, thank you 🙂. I have solar and battery, the GE AIO and am moving to Octopus Flux. I want to automate my system to achieve the following...
1: 2am to 5am - charger to say 100% (the low-cost period)
2: 5am to 4pm - use solar plus battery but keeping sufficient charge to cover the peak period requirement. This is where it would be great if I could set the battery to not fall below say 50%, but only between these times.
3: 4pm to 7pm - use battery only to avoid the high peak rate period.
4: 7pm to 2am the following day - continue to use battery down to the reserve level.
The above cycle to repeat every day without any input from the user, must be a set once and forget.
I can achieve quite a lot of this in the GE portal but not all of it (do need to dive into the Remote Control settings).
Have you any suggestions?
Thanks
Thanks for the great feedback! :-) Worth also watching this video I made on how to get the best from tariffs like Octopus Flux - could give you different ideas: ruclips.net/video/dGpsN8-1Fx4/видео.html
For some information on how to program your GE settings, this video might be good: ruclips.net/video/DDDd_j8O5s4/видео.html
Gary, again your video is superb. I cant imagine how long it takes to put this together and edit. Thank you, its really helpful for me.
Thanks Scott - yeah, it does take quite a few hours, but I'd like to think I'm getting a bit quicker at it (I'm sure the reality is I'm not though - lol). I'll keep the videos coming...
Gary, have looked into V2H, V2G, V2L and V2X? I'm wondering if that would be a viable solution for a home battery instead of the ones you've shown in your videos.
Hi Paul, it's on my list - and I'd be focusing on V2G with a little but of V2H... Just waiting for support for those technologies to get a little more traction first...
Very informative. Thanks for the spreadsheet, and thanks to everyone who has helped you to develop it. I asume you will be tackling Octopus Agile soon too. Is there anything I need to know regarding choice of hybrid inverter to make best use of that tariff automatically. I understand that GivEnergy and Fox are compatible, but do they integrate equally with these smart tariffs?
Hi Jeremy, my pleasure - glad you're getting something out of my videos. Just to let you know, the spreadsheet has now be superseded by this web utility I made - far easier to use and more informative: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Regarding the batteries, I can only share my experiences with GivEnergy as this is the only battery solution I've worked with (my own solution). They have facilities that allow you to force charge and discharge at certain times of the day, so great for tariffs like Octopus Flux. They also have support for Octopus Agile, but I've never tried using that yet.
Great video Gary. I'm switching tonight. Just need to convince my wife to eat her tea at 2am now! Subbed and Liked!
That made me laugh, Nic. Good luck, and please do let me know how it all goes :-)
Thanks, a great explanation. I can’t have solar, drive an EV, currently on Octopus Go. I’ve enquired about battery installation but it seems Octopus doesn’t do them without solar. Any recommendations for a battery installation?
You're most welcome :-)
Now, you can add easily an AC-coupled battery to your house - you'll just need to get hold of an installer (doesn't have to be Octopus). Worth checking out various solar forums like facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466 to see if a battery without solar is worth it... Good luck!
Great video - thanks. We’re currently on Go as we have an EV. I’m considering solar and batteries but it’s so difficult now to work out break even etc because of tariffs like this! Hurts my head!
You're very welcome :-)
And now, you know how I felt trying to build a calculator utility - haha!
Great video thanks Gary. We got solar and tesla powerwall last September and were able to get onto the Octopus Tesla Energy plan which is soooo good from a money point of view as it's fully symmetrical. On sunny days we make a really large profit on energy exported.
However we got a notification when they launched Flux that this plan was now discontinued and we'll be forced to change in September. It's quite unfortunate because the tariff was one of the main reasons we decided to shell out for solar, the payback was going to be around 10-15 years but now with flux I think we may be out of pocket with the solar. However, at least we're helping the grid and the environment so I guess it's still worth it :)
Hi Matt - thanks for the kind words :-)
Yeah, a shame they're stopping the Tesla Energy Plan - I guess you've had a good run at it. You might surprise yourself with Flux though, although having an EV does make it a little less lucrative. Might be worth you watching this video, where Anthony (who also has a Tesla) carries out an in-depth financial analysis of different Octopus tariffs: ruclips.net/video/kWoBzds07Y0/видео.html
thanks for your efforts in making the videos. I've used your octopus referral code as a thank you.
Hi Mark, you are most welcome! And thank you so much for using my referral code - thank really helps me out a lot! :-)
Thanks Gary you help me educate my customers
Hi Aaron - thank you so much for the super thanks - very kind of you, and I'm very happy to have been able to help you. I'll keep the videos coming... :-)
A nice explanation on the Flux tariff options.. I had a look are your spreadsheet, but at the moment it doesn't really manage to cater for the setup I have in place. I have 7.5kw of generation, 7.5kwh of battery, and an inverter that can push about 3.6kw to charge. I have another inverter that can push the excess solar to the grid when the batteries are charging at capacity. This is all getting a bit complex for Excel formulae... What I need to do is pull down the raw information from the Invertor and generation logs... This will tell me the flow power to / from the grid (AC side) and the flow through the invertor (DC side and conversion to home side AC)... Those two curves on a daily pattern tell me my actual usage stats, and I can code that to calculate the costs, and allow for the usage of the Flux tariff to calculate what i would have got from it for a given period...
At a gut feel though, I think that this tariff is pretty good for a house with solar and battery (though I question if that's essential) but the reduced low rate period, (3 hrs) and higher cost of that minimum period (compared to cheapest EV charging options), basically mean that this is not a tariff maximising benefits for a home with an EV that needs a lot of home charging. It might be ok for a low - medium useage of EV's..
Hi Andrew, yeah - that's quite a complex setup. You're right though, the spreadsheet is getting out of hand, so I'm currently coding up a webpage to replace it... So far, it's not looking too bad.
I agree with your thoughts on Flux.
Thanks so much, I had my 4.2kw/h solar/batteries (12kw) installed in Oct 22 and as yet have not looked at the export but whilst I am away on holiday monitoring my battery charging/export of energy. I have just filled in the SEG forms with octopus and currently on Octo Go Tarrif with the 7.5p import cost 12.30-0430. using this time to fill batteries but from about 10am I am exporting as the batteries are full.
This is excellent modelling but I still need to get head around numbers, and from this video best I stay on my Go until September when it expires, although I am going to generate quite a lot of energy - will fill 80% on battery and charge my Mini via Zappi..
Hi Tony, you're very welcome. I've not long released a web version of the utility that you might like to try as well: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Great video Gary. Brilliantly explained! 👍 I will be sure to make use of the tool when it is released as well.
No worries, Dan. How are you finding the world of being a RUclipsr? It's quite involved, yeah? I'll release the utility very soon, just a couple of things to tidy up - it'll have a massive disclaimer on it too, as I'm sure there will still be bugs! :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar Very involved but I’m really enjoying it! Hoping to get another one out this weekend. Definitely appeals to my creative side, although I need to get the production quality up a lot I think. What do you use for editing?
@@DanEVSolar7 I used to use iMovie, which is ok, but I now use Final Cut Pro, which is really powerful, and relatively easy to use (lots of options and controls, which are quite scary in the beginning though!). All my graphics and animations are PowerPoint, would you believe. Amateur, but they come out not too bad. I think I need a better microphone though...
Just signed up to octopus and used your referral code 👍
Hi Matt, thank you 🙏 that means a great deal to me! I’ll keep the videos coming 😀😀😀
Brilliant work Gary .
Thanks Keith :-)
Hi, I have just found your channel and find interesting, I wish there had been a similar amount of detail when we got solar panels 7 years ago. One point to note is that for people who are still on the uk gov FIT scheme, the PV export price we get is ~5p per kwh (it depend on when you entered the scheme) which is significantly less than the current octopus rate (~15p per kwh) BUT I get paid based on a "deemed" export of 50% of my generation when in fact we only export about 10% of our generation, so this alters the economics.
And yes I have a spreadsheet that calculations this !
Hi Carol, thanks for sharing your experiences with FiT. It was a great scheme, and kick started consumer solar for the UK. Not available to anyone today, but Tariffs like Flux provide something close(ish) :-)
great vid - and thanks for the spreadsheet - who doesnt like a spreadsheet after all. Made the switch to Flux ealier today and its clearly aimed at the home owner micro generators- good for Octopus, and as you detailed each user shifting the curve slightly benefits everyone and Octopus. Ive set my inverter initially to export only for just one of the peak hours, time will tell if i can be bolder, but i seem to be runnig at twice your nighttime and nothing is running rate.
Thanks Charlie - I think my spreadsheet is starting to get out of hand though - lol. I'll likely code it up on a website instead...
I didn't understand the very last part of your comment - could you restate please?
Gary, really clear content, formalised what i thought i understood. Friend and i decided to buy identical systems. Ordering next week 16x400W, GivEnergy 5.0 inverter & 9.5kW battery. For 2 systems supplier provides scaffolding FOC. 👍
This sounds like the system we would like. Would you mind sharing the ballpack of what you are paying, please?
@Chelle Coulson a touch under £14k. That includes discount for buying 2 systems and the company offered me £250 introduction free for the 2nd customer, which i further discounted £125 each system 🤣
@@nicflanagan6662 Thank you. I'm getting quoted £3k more than that, which is taking the mick I think. Enjoy your new system!
@Chelle Coulson just for info, we both decided that we wanted to buy/install through a local company, rather than a web based entity. The company we will order from mentioned that they are frequently approached by said entity to quote to install their system or rectify. We're in Dorset, not sure if that makes any difference 🤔
That's great to hear, Nic! All the best with your installation, and thanks for the taking the time to watch my videos :-)
This looks good. So basically you are saying that this combination of solar, battery and energy tariff is making money for you. Could this be an option for everyone? Also outside of Oxford, the UK? How is the situation in Ireland, Holland, Germany, Poland, Finland and Greece? Gibraltar, Malta, the Falklands???
Thanks for taking the time to watch, Freek. So, in the UK, I would say there is the opportunity to make money using the Flux tariff. In other countries, it depends on whether the energy providers in those countries off similar tariffs. If they do, then the same opportunity applies.
Excellent video Gary! Very informative. Are you going to cover the Octupus Agile Tariff next? 😃🤞🏾
Thanks. Here is my video on Agile: ruclips.net/video/MbUDGbnHHBE/видео.html ✅
Great video. I find all your videos useful and informative. I have a question. I have a battery free pv installation from 2010 and I’m on the FIT scheme on 43p per kWh. I think this means that I make money from the Solar energy I make even if I use it. Do you think a battery would make financial sense and is it still the best tariff in 2023. Thanks. M.
Hi Mikis, you are SO lucky to be on the FiT scheme - it rewards you in a way that no solar tariff available today can :-) It's difficult to answer your question without knowing all the details about your installation. And I cannot provide you advice because of the liability that exists even if I give that advice free. If you can wait a month or two, I'm planning to make a video and calculator for battery ROI....
Thanks btw, for your very kind words about my videos :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar Hey Gary. I found out the answer to my own question and I think the answer is definitely add an AC battery to my home. I found the answer here. ruclips.net/video/BjJhjsZRUMk/видео.html&si=kDRF7zsW7Oct8_Pc
Thanks Gary, I've got a 5kw Solis inverter & 14 375W PV panels,a myenergi Eddi for my Hot Water (instead of using my Oil Boiler to heat the water) and a Solax X1-Fit inverter and 3, 5kw Solax batteries for now I'm going to stay on Octopus Agile and Outgoing Agile Octopus for my export having only had the system fully installed this winter and waiting forever for the DNO permission I'm not actually sure what my Leccy Bill will be in Summer but so far I'm very pleased with my system, I'll keep watching your Channel to see how you get on with Octopus Flux,hopefully it's the right Tariff for your family 🙏
Thanks Ian - much appreciated, and hope you get DNO approval very soon!
@GaryDoesSolar DNO all through Gary,took ages though, the system seams very by the Government to grant permissions
Oh, that’s good! Mine took more than 5 months! Madness
I just moved to octopus today , will add your referral link/ code
Thank you
That's so very kind of you - thanks! I really appreciate you doing this for me :-)
Just signed up safely for the flat rate Outgoing Octopus 12M Fixed (having 6kW system with 6kW battery, 3.6 inverter). Apart from winter season I am definitely self sufficient even over night. Would FLUX be a better option in this case? And Would anyone recommend switching back to flat tarrif for winter season so we don't overpay when we have to pull more energy from the grid?
Hi there, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466) Good luck!
Great Video Gary, loved the content and easy for homeowners to follow. Many thanks
That's very kind of you, Ecobubl - and just to let you know, the solar and battery installation you fitted for me week before last is performing amazingly :-)
I'll be making a video about it shortly...
Love your videos Gary, you are such as good teacher and explainer. I presume you teach others in your day job?
Hi Rob, thanks for the kind words. I do enjoy presenting, and this is a big part of my day job, which is in the mobile industry (I'm an eSIM expert).
Thank you for your very informative video. I have been considering a battery only installation but have been unable to get a straight answer to the question 'Will Octopus allow me to have the Flux tariff'. Do you have any information on this? Interested to try out your SS for my scenario.
Thanks Chris - much appreciated :-)
Octopus market the tariff as being for "solar and battery" users. And in the FAQ (octopus.energy/smart/flux/ - near bottom of page), it states that solar is a prerequisite:
*Am I eligible to join Octopus Flux?*
You'll need to have:
A smart meter providing us with half-hourly readings
A solar system and home battery
A copy of the MCS document for your solar system
Confirmation your local energy network was notified of your installation
I use agile with batt and solar atm which sometimes I get free charging and I know some people have been paid for using energy. Good work Gary
Thanks Keith - I plan to cover Agile in part two of this series - I really like the fact that Octopus is so forward thinking on tariffs Being paid for taking load off the grid sounds marvellous to me! :-)
Great worksheet Gary. I did notice an possible error in one of your formulas (in column M) which seems to miscalculate the discharge rate of the battery during the "FC" period. I believe if the battery is in this mode, then it will be forced into a charge rate so there should be no discharge possible, however your current formula seems to think there is a discharge value if the consumption is high over this period (as it is with me with my immersion heater and EVs charging at this time).
I've made a quick update to cell M4 (and copied down) to adjust for this: =IF($K4="FD",-MIN(MAX(MAX($C$7-$J4,0),0),N3*(1-$C$11),$C$13),IF($K4="FC",0,-MIN(MAX(H4-J4,0),N3*(1-$C$11),$C$13))).
May need some sense checking though.
Keep up the great work.
Hi Mat - thanks, and also thank you for taking the time to look into this bug! :-) What I'll do is update the spreadsheet and upload it as a new version that people can use!
Since publishing, I've been working (this week) on a coded web version - which has completely different logic, but I can compare the output of this new version against your suggested change as a sanity check!
Thanks again :-)
Actually, Mat - is it M4 or K4? Maybe the best way is if you could email me a copy of the spreadsheet with your change in it, if that's ok? Send to "me" then at symbol then my channel name (all one word) followed by dot com. Many thanks! :-)
Very well explained. Looking forward to the new app. 👍
Hi Trevor, thanks :-) And you can try out an early version of the web app here: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
At present I am on the Octopus Tesla tariff, but that is coming to an end late this year/early next.
With PV and a Powerwall 2 + an EV6 it will be challenging to find the best replacement !
I will be following your series on this with great interest !!
Cheers, Con - I'll see what I can do... :-)
Great video Gary. A very clear and concise explanation 👍
Thanks Dean - great to hear feedback like this, and thanks for watching my video :-)
Great work again Gary.
I am on Octopus Flux and trying to work out whether to use my battery to minimise import (and take export benefit as a second priority) or to maximise export and accept some import after the evening peak (as your utility does). I haven't yet convinced myself that the latter is worth the extra battery throughput and degradation for relatively modest extra import income. Looking forward to your utility.
My present strategy is a mix of the above. I avoid import before dawn by charging to at least 20% overnight (may not need to charge at all if evening consumption is low) and I avoid import after the evening peak by only force discharging to >45%. This works ok for my system with the present level of sunshine, but as I say above, I am not sure what the optimum strategy is.
Thanks for the kind words :-) Yeah, developing an optimum strategy is really hard - I guess the only real way is a bit of trial and error (and a lot of data analysis!). One feedback I had on the utility is that because of the "power factor" of certain appliances, 1kWh of charge into a battery might not provide 1kWh of useful power for appliances with a low power factor (anything with a motor it seems). I'll need to look into this...
@@GaryDoesSolar you don't need to worry about power factor.
Poor power factor (e.g. a motor with poor power factor compensation) means the load has to be provided with reactive power (kVAr) in addition to active power (kW). Reactive power only exists for AC systems so the "real" energy kWh is provided by the DC system (PV or battery) and the "imaginary" reactive "energy" kVArh is provided by the grid connection or produced out of thin air by the magic of your inverter (at the expense of slightly increased inverter losses)
Thanks for the video. How would I go about reconfiguring the powerwall2 to automatically export between 4-7pm? I see a ‘backup reserve’ option although that seems to be for grid outages. There is a utility rate plan setting which allows 3 time periods. Currently the PW uses that to automatically charge at GO times. Would it use that to discharge to grid if I entered a 3rd ‘peak’?
Hmmm, I've just had a read of this page on the Tesla site, and it doesn't look to me that you can force discharge a PowerWall unfortunately :--(
... unless anyone else knows different?
www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/powerwall-modes
Hi Gary, Thanks for another in depth and thorough video. (Do I detect a fellow Engineer? 😀).
I have just had a 6.7 kWp array, GivEnergy 5kW inverter and 9.5kW battery installed.
My charge / discharge rate seems limited to 2.6kW so I can't fully charge / discharge in the 3 hour Flux / Peak windows.
You have a similar setup, but with two of these batteries.
(@7:11) Is your charge / discharge rate of 3.6 kW per battery, or in total, perhaps now limited by the inverter?
PS I've just spotted that my 5kW GivEnergy Inverter is the bottleneck limiting the charge / discharge to 2.5 kW. Am I missing a trick?
Hi Nick, thanks very much for the kind words - great to get this kind of feedback :-)
Now, yeah I have pretty much the same setup as you! My inverter and batteries are Generation 2, which means it can charge and discharge at 3.6kW. If I remember correctly, the previous generation had a charge/discharge limit of 2.6kW.
I've set things so that I'm charging all 3 hours of the Flux off-peak period, up to a maximum of 40%. This means I get sufficient cheap energy if the day is not so sunny, and I still have more that half the battery to charge via solar.
Maybe you could do something similar, perhaps?
@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, you're right, it looks like I have a gen 1 inverter, which is disappointing as it was only fitted last week.
@@nickbradley3966 Nick, did your contract specifically state “Gen 1”? If not, you could expect to have fitted the latest generation…?
A brilliant summary video Gary. Very much enjoyed it. Looking forward to working through your back-catalogue and future videos. Clear, factual and inspiring. I'm in the middle of moving to Flux and its exciting being part of the future. Unfortunately we only have a 3.1 kWp array and 3.5 kWh battery for now but planning to roughly double both once we get an electric car. We got a power diverter when we had the installation but as per your other video I'm now wondering whether it makes sense to run it now we are on Flux.
Hi Toby, thanks for taking the time to comment (and also for the great feedback!) Hope you enjoy my other videos!
I've been on Flux for a few days now and I can't believe that I'm being paid so much to export! I'm almost feeling guilty about it! Lol
I'm guessing your current array and battery is in line with your electricity usage, so I wouldn't worry too much. You'll still be exporting a lot as the days get sunnier.
And yeah, on the solar diverter - it's a real shame that with high export rates, it longer makes any financial sense at the moment, but who knows, if electricity prices start to come down (and consequently, export rates come down below 12p/kWh) then they could come back into fashion...
Hi Gary , I have been with Octopus for sometime now, i have a 4 kw solar panel system and 7.8 kw of battery storage , currrently on Octopus outgoing using Econ.7. I have expressed interest with Octopus Fliux but as yet undecided. The seg rates look attractive however the import rates at peak times are quite high and thats a bit of an issue however during the summer months could be well wortth it and maybe switch back arouind October time. Seems like no brainer but is there a catch. By the way your videos are great .
Thanks for the kind words. I’m thinking that because you’ve got a good ratio of your battery vs array size, that you should be able to charge enough to get you over the peak period, more than half of the time? And any costs you do incur over the peak period will be offset by some of your export revenue? And depending on your battery, you might be able to get it to hold charge until the peak period?
This was very interesting . At long last we're getting a smart meter. After an 8 month wait.
My question is how easy is it to program the kit to follow your example of when to charge the battery, when to use the battery and when to feed the grid.
Presumably you need to buy kit that will do it.
I'm lucky we are starting from scratch. I'm in my late 70s so need a quickish payback.
Thanks generally for your videos. Very interesting and informative. With the smart meter on it's way I can start planning.
Hi Allan, great that you've finally got your smart meter sorted! Now, it depends on the kit you buy. For example, if you had a Tesla Powerwall, you can program it like this chap did in a video here: ruclips.net/video/VrKSKPrdhak/видео.html
Good luck with whatever setup you put in place, and thanks for the kind words about my videos - I'll keep them coming! :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar thanks I'll look at the link
Hello Gary I am enjoying your videos, I live in Ireland, unfortunately we do not have octopus, but we do have some cheap rates. Can you charge two batterys at the same time.Thank you Tom.
Hi Tom, great to hear that you're enjoying my videos - I'll keep them coming. Octopus is expanding all the time and I'm sure it won't be long before they're present where you live. In the meantime though, keep an eye out on all the providers you do have there - they're starting to wake up to the needs of solar, battery and EV owners and are building tariffs to suit...
Yes, you should be able to charge two batteries at the same time, provided they are controlled by the same string inverter. The inverter will ensure the batteries remain at roughly the same level of charge each.
Great video, Gary. I have plenty of solar and a SolarEdge inverter + battery, but am stymied by two issues. Firstly, my utility provider won’t install a smart meter as the 4G signal is apparently inadequate. And secondly, SolarEdge don’t have workable time-of-use software yet.😢
Thanks Alan. Isn't it incredible that so many manufacturers are not anticipating how the market is changing...? I've only been looking at this market for the last 8 months, and even I can see that equipment needs to have tight integration into other equipment around them, energy tariffs, the weather forecast. That's one of the reasons I went with GivEnergy - they seem to get it.
Hopefully SolarEdge will wake up...
Hi Gary. May I take some screenshots from your video on tariffs to use at a presentation I’m giving at my village hall. I would of course reference your channel. Rob
Yes, no problem, Rob. All the best with your presentation 👍🏻
wow what great info, I've ordered solar and will have a 10.5Kw battery plus I have a EV so this makes things really worth it I might think about getting a 3rd battery as well
Thank you for the feedback - very much appreciated! And great that you're starting your solar journey :-) Haha - yeah, big battery installations might become all the rage soon!
Thanks for the brilliant explanation of flux. We are thinking of changing from economy 7 to flux. Do you have a table to work out how long it will take to pay them off? And which tariff is best for me. Thanks
You're very welcome, Dawn :-) So, I am working on a utility at the moment that can give you a view of how well your setup will perform with Flux (or other tariffs). I'll post this link after this comment, but in case RUclips automatically deletes links, just look in the video description for it. You could also take a look at another video I did a while back on calculating your payback period. Again, I'll try to post the link below.
Utility: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Payback video: ruclips.net/video/FvjuJQZRrvA/видео.html
Really enjoying the videos. My install was commissioned in June after a 1 year wait. 4.4KW (12 x 370w) panels, .6 KW Giv Hybrid Inv (gen1), and Giv 9.5KW battery. The Inv limits the battery charge rate and the supply to the house to 2.6KW/h, which is quite limiting. You are higher at 3.6KW/h, but I think 2.6 is too limiting for adding another battery to my system. I think however adding a GivEnergy all in one would work for me, as it connects directly to consumer unit, can be charged from grid or solar, and gives 6KW/h charge/discharge and think this would be on top of my 2.6 from the inverter. However, I think it may need a G99 application, and pricing may be high just now as only released - would be interested in your thoughts on GivAllInOne.
Also already on Flux, but thinking Agile might be better for me in winter - when not likely to export, and maybe take advantage of plunge pricing to charge battery, and charge cheaply through night. 3 hrs on flux with 2.6 charge rate I cannot fully charge battery.
Hi George, thanks for your kind words on the videos :-)
And yes, you're right, the charge/discharging rates on GE products are not great. But adding a new battery/inverter as AC-coupled will increase that. I'll be covering this and other things in a follow-up video I'm making on batteries...
A really well explained presentation, thanks Gary. I have solar panels with a battery and also have an EV. Do you know if you have to have a dedicated EV charger to benefit from the Octopus flux tariff as I get by with just trickle charging from a normal 3 pin 240v socket?
Hi Tom, thanks very much for the great feedback 😀 No, you don’t need an EV charger to go onto the Flux tariff. In fact, you don’t even need an EV.
You can continue with the charger you have if you want - no problem 👍🏻
brilliant video, many thanks
Cheers Steven :-) this feedback much appreciated
Thanks for another great video Gary.
If you use flux to maximise export daily, will you not decrease your life of your battery?
I can see the benefit of having 3 hrs to fill my 2x 5.2kw batteries as I don't have an EV. 👍
You're most welcome! :-) Those with solar installations with a battery will find that their battery is charging and discharging at least once a day anyway. So, when purchasing a battery, it's always wise to look at the number of cycles warranted, based on 365 cycles every year.
And yeah, Flux should easily fill this batteries, and during the summer, the sun will hopefully do that as well! :-)
We have one battery 9.5 Kw (GivEnergy), Solar Panels, ASHP, MVHR and 2 EVs. Would you still recommend Octopus Go for that?
The best tariff to use depends a great deal on the solar and battery installation specifics and also usage specifics. I'm sorry, but I can't give individual advice. There are many forums online, including "Octopus Go, Intelligent Octopus & Octopus Flux chat" on Facebook, where you can get advice. Good luck!
Hi Gary, Enjoying these videos very much. Thanks. I have used the spreadsheet If I have the FIT export from pre-2012 is there anything that I can do to maximise the export or is this only for SEG clients? Cheers John
Hi John, thanks for the great feedback. Now, the spreadsheet is only for the SEG scenario, I'm afraid - only because I don't know too much about how FiT works.
Hi Gary, I have just installed a 6kw solar array and I was wondering if you had any utilities or tips to help with choosing a UK tariff suitable for my needs?
We've just switched to octopus, and I have an EV. I was looking at Octopus outgoing to begin with but after having the solar panels in for a while the car is taking most of the excess solar.
Any help or guidance appreciated.
Hi Steve, worth checking out this group on Facebook, which should give you the answers you're looking for: facebook.com/groups/567513347297329
Good luck! :-)
Excellent video and web utility, THANKS!
One question on the utility: when modelling an Autumn quarter using a max average array power generation of 2.4kWp with a 9.6kWh battery, using a 3.8kW inverter produces a higher daily profit figure than using a 5kW inverter. Would you expect this?
Just at the quote stage for installation and trying to assess whether the extra 1.2kW and a 12 week delay for DNO approval is worthwhile.
Thanks for the very kind words, Ray :-)
Now, on the face of it, I would not expect a lower-powered inverter to result in a greater profit for the day. I just tried those numbers here and there is no difference in profit (as the solar generation doesn't get near even the lower inverter limit). Could you try with the latest version of the utility please and let me know... thanks!
Just modelled the same numbers in the new version and clearly a better result with the 5kw inverter as one would expect.
The new version looks great BTW. I see that you now don't have to calculate the maximum achievable array output by quarter. Is this now included within the utility based on array orientation entered under the Solar Array Performance box?
On that point, my planned array will achieve a total of 6kWp but with 4kWp from the directly south facing roof and 2kWp from the directly east facing roof.
How is is best to model that performance in the utility please?
Many thanks Gary!
@@rayscogings3700 Hi Ray, great to hear that the utility is working for you! Now, yeah - modelling two arrays on different orientations is actually quite tricky. Currently, the solar model is only optimal for a single South-facing array, but it's something I'm thinking about for a more powerful utility down the line.
Question. Hi Gary enjoy the videos. Where did you find the Octopus Eco7 tarriff please? I have a "Smart meter" so dont know if it is available to me but it look's a good bet if it is. I have a 60kWh battery pack that I am struggling to charge on the "Octopus Go" tarriff during the 4 hours using a 100A single phase supply, as I also obviously charge my EV in the same time period! Thanks.
Actually, the 10p off-peak rate for Eco7 I quoted in the video was incorrect - it is actually 16p, I've been told, so that may make the tariff less appealing? Here is a link to the tariff: octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/what-is-an-economy-7-meter-and-tariff/
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes the one I found was 16p also. No problem. Thanks. Looks like I will stick with "Go". I'm paying 7.5p/kWh at the moment but no doubt that will double when I need to renew. Pity no one else does a reasonable price EV tarriff! Thanks again for the informative video's.
@@pepermintpilot1694 You're most welcome! Yeah, Go does look best for your situation. All the best! 🙂
Thanks Gary. Looking forward to the tool. My own analysys using a year's half hourly data shows that IO is slightly cheaper than GO for my usage with off peak EV charging, but that may just be down to the nature of my domestic usage. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the best tarrif for EV, panels and battery (appreciating that panel generation and battery size affect the sums). Keep up the good work!
You're very welcome - I'll post a link to the tool later today - it's still buggy so will come with a HUGE disclaimer :-)
I reckon Octopus Go still remains the best tariff for those with solar, battery and EV - not least because EVs have batteries 10-15 times the size of a typical solar battery. So, not much energy will ever be exported... :-/
Hi Gary, an update, on contacting the DNO (Northern Powergrid) myself they have agreed to let me export from my battery as well, seems that they have updated their policy so good news! - I had two solar installations and have added batteries and a new solar install with battery.
Wow - great news! And good to see DNOs taking a positive view around residential export. Sounds like you'll be in the money before long! :-)
Here in South Australia the off-peak is 10am to 3pm when all the rooftop solar swamps the grid. On some days, rooftop solar output exceeds demand and some inverters have to be turned off to reduce generation.
On the wholesale market, electricity is often negatively priced between 10 and 3.
Our problem is a lack of cheap power during peak and overnight.
Hi Rob, thanks for this information. Sounds like a big battery is perfect for that kind of situation, yeah?
@@GaryDoesSolar for people on wholesale (almost nobody) a battery makes sense. On normal retail plans they are too expensive and will never payback the investment.
@@robhaitch5544 Ok, I see.
Excellent video - thanks.
Cheers Colin :-)
Currently I am procrastinating if moving to Agile in January is a good or bad thing, but looking at this just moving to flux as I wait should be a no brainer, right?
5 kWh battery with 9 kWh average usage per day? Fill it at night, top up an hour before peak pricing, I should be better of than flexible but in no case worth than on it, if I get it right.
So I’m on Agile at the moment and am planning to move back to Flux around Feb/March. If I had an EV though (one day - sigh) I’d move to IOG for the full year. Good luck with whatever you decide! 👍🏻
Very good video. I am debating if solar increases house value or reduces it? Any ideas
Thanks for the kind words :-)
If you'd asked be that question say 10 years ago, I'd suggest solar would not be seen as a value-add to a house sale - not least because the average person would not have understood what it was all about.
But over the last couple of years, with dramatically rising energy costs being acutely on the minds of most of the population, more and more people are now understanding the benefits of having solar.
Anyone selling a house, should easily be able to demonstrate the financial savings of the solar equipment installed (though data and bills etc.) and in my mind, that for the prospective buyer, should equate to a notional increase of value on the house itself.
If it doesn't add value, it should at least make it easier to sell. Who wouldn't want a house with massively reduced energy costs?
I’m certainly looking at switching over from Agile to Flux. Export rates on Agile are much lower this year, but that in turn is probably a forecast for what flux tariffs will look like in a few months time. Flux is certainly a good deal for the coming summer. But I’ll still switch to Go for winter EV charging.
Hi Anthony, great to hear from you - hope all is well :-) Yeah, I'm hearing that wholesale rates are starting to lower over the longer term. It all feels like investing in stocks and shares!! Lol
Would be great to hear your thoughts on Flux in a video :-)
Main problem is during winter or poor solar production. 3 hour charging window at night limits on appliance usage. A 300L water tank will take more than 3 hours to fully heat up to 60c.
This tariff only works if you retain the battery charge for peak use and hope your solar can retain/ aid its charge. Cloud / weather and winter is its enemy
That's true, and it might not always be possible to do that. You might be interested to watch this video I made on solar diverters - might cause you to think about the benefits of using that (I used to be a fan of them, but now I'm not): ruclips.net/video/6zc1g1bz0eA/видео.html
@@GaryDoesSolar Great video Gary. I've seen all of your contents thanks. Keep them rolling
Hi Gary, loving your videos, thank you!
Your calculator spreadsheet seems potentially useful but as you acknowledge in your video, it doesn't yet work for Octopus Flux as it only accepts 2 of the 6 figures from an Octopus Flux quote.
Personally I'm initially looking at a storage only installation (13kW battery + 3.68kW hybrid inverter) to take advantage of the difference between the Flux import and Peak export rates (with the hybrid inverter to support potential future investment in solar) so I'm looking to model that configuration to see how it plays out over time and whether it makes financial sense.
So here's hoping that you will be updating your spreadsheet so that it has inputs for all 6 of the rates found in an Octopus Flux quote so that the spreadsheet fully takes them all into account.
It's also missing DoD (usually 90%, but does vary) and for future proofing should also allow specifying the number of Flux and Peak hours.
It might be better to allow the user to specify the import & export rates for each hour of the day, allowing usage not only for Octopus Flux but also any other tariff where the rates vary by hour, which would work for future tariffs which could potentially have more than 3 different sets of rates.
Hi Marcus, thanks for the great feedback! :-)
Now, the spreadsheet is already populated with the pricing for all six tariff periods for Octopus Flux (normal, off-peak, peak) in fact. Check the values in columns N and R - you should see the different prices depending on the time. Each hour can have its own price (for both import and export).
Is that what you were referring to, or do I need to add something else to the spreadsheet?
In any case, I'm working on a web app version, which is much easier to use, and if you'd like to try it out before I release, please email me on "me" followed by an at symbol, then my channel name (all one word) and finally dot com and I'll reply with a link.
Great video! Is there a way to automate all the charging and discharging? I have a 5kw array, with the Gen 2 Giv Energy Hybrid and 2x 5Kw batteries. The only downside I see for me is the Gen 2 Giv Energy charge rate is only 2.4Kw so I wouldn't be able to fill the batteries in 3 hours.
Hi Rohan, you're most welcome. Is this your inverter? www.givenergy.co.uk/pdfs/products/datasheets/giv-hy-3-6-gen-2.pdf In which case, the charge rate is 3.6kW, but maybe your batteries are limiting the rate?
I also have GivEnergy products: a Gen 2 GivEnergy Hybrid (5kW) and 2 x 9.5kWh batteries. I can only charge about half the batteries as well, but I'm ok with that because as we head Into sunnier days, the increased solar will quickly fill the remainder.
@@GaryDoesSolar Sorry, I was wrong, I have the Gen 1 inverter which is limited to 2.4kw charge and discharge. I think they announced the 3.6kw version a month after I took delivery of mine!
@@rohanchaffey3591 Ah ok - no worries - you can still half charge your batteries with off-peak (like me) then let the sun do the rest 🙂
Great utility tool! Could you explain how the utility determines solar output? Is this an average figure over a year? Obviously generation is higher and longer in summer and shorter in winter. Cheers!
Hi Benn, thanks :-)
Now, I created a simple solar model in column G, which is simply the relative "power" of the sun throughout a sunny summer's day. Each hour has a value between 0 (no sun) and 1 (sun at highest point in the sky).The model is essentially a bell curve.
The spreadsheet has no concept of the seasons, so it would be up to the user to set the "Max Array Output" to the most power that their array would put out for a particular time of year.
I'm now coding up a utility that will do the same thing as the spreadsheet, but in a far better way. Will be released soon! :-)
Great video Gary ... and have been contemplating Flux since it came out recently. I don't have a need for EV charging ... and my solar setup sounds ideal for the tarriff.
I'm running a Sunsynk Hybrid inverter 5.5kw with 10.24kw battery storage ... DC coupled to 16 off 405watt solar panels on two arrays, SE and SW facing. 6480kwp
I 'll be testing you new calculator page just as soon as it's fully released. Looks a great tool in the decision making process.
Thanks Rog - yeah, would be interested to hear how you get on. Good luck with your analysis! :-)
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the video, with your two batteries shouldn't you theoretical be able to charge/discharge a maximum of 7.2 kwh assuming your inverter could handle the load?, or can both batteries not discharge 3.6kwh each due to their setup or other factors?
You'd think that might be the case, but apparently with GivEnergy products, it's not :-(
The only other option is for each battery to have its own inverter, but those inverters are only 3kW. What I might do longer term is get myself another hybrid (same model) so that each battery is only it's own inverter - then I could perhaps get to 7.2kW :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar I might have to do some more research in that case before I get my setup thank you :)
Great Video - really helpful. A quick question - did you publish the spreadsheet on costs etc.? Thanks
I believe you found it now, but for anyone looking, it’s in the video description 👍🏻
Gary I have a pv and battery system on Octopus Flux. Do you know how that will work when the winter savings sessions restart ? We don't have any grid consumption to cut back on.
Hi Peter, many people think that Flux will not be as lucrative in the winter, not least because of the short (3-hour) off-peak import period. I don't have any information on how the next saving sessions will operate. The National Grid is closing their consultation session tomorrow, so hopefully they'll provide some insight in the next couple of months or so: www.nationalgrideso.com/industry-information/balancing-services/demand-flexibility-service-dfs
Great video, I’m on the OI tariff at the moment and thinking about changing over to flux. However I’ve found 2 problems- Tesla won’t let you export a PW to the grid and secondly a PW is specifically designed to harvest solar therefore will probably need to be rewired such that the solar feed is upstream of the battery so the battery doesn’t know solar exists? I hope I’m wrong on both these! Do you know any different?
Also with Flux you must opt out of the deemed 50% export if you are on a FIT scheme (UK) - this is a one way action. So for people wth big batteries perhaps IO is the best Winter tariff (I never use day time electricity) and Flux maybe better for the summer especially if you have west facing panels. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks Geoff - yeah, the internals of Tesla battery management seem to be shrouded in secrecy! And opting out of FiT deemed export is a huge decision to make - I'd likely stay with it, given it's a one-way move!
Hi Gary, What have you heard about Octopus bringing out a new "Intelligent Octopus Flux" tariff?
It seems to be restricted to owners of GivEnergy batteries, has the same import and export rates, no cheap flex rate and I think that Octopus would control the importing and exporting of one's battery.
Hi Nick, so, it's still all quite new, and details are sparse. It's only open to GivEnergy battery owners initially, but that is expected to expand to other brands over time. The new tariff is currently being trialled with a subset of customers, to iron out any problems etc. I'll be making a video on the tariff shortly...
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, I look forward to that.
The tariff sounds great, I've signed up to their waiting list.
We’re an octopus customer in rented social housing with solar panels, but no batteries
When we moved in the analog meter went backwards in bright sunshine
However changing to octopus required a smart meter
On bright days electricity is £0.00
It must have been so strange to see your analog meter going backwards! Great to hear you're not having to pay for electricity on those sunny days - every penny counts! :-)