I suspect that many installers aren't really keeping up with technology developments and simply have a few "recipies" that they choose from that they match against the house configuration and whatever kit they can get at the time. From what I read, if MCS had any real oversight of those they certify, there would be mandatory ongoing education and training to keep them up to date. I've yet to pull the trigger on a Solar PV/Battery system for my own house (NE/SW roofs with slight shading from chimney on NE roof), but I won't just be having whatever an installer throws at me. As it's my money and roof, I'll be having the kit *I* decide on. Another well researched video BTW. Looking forward to your next one ...
You're totally right, Tony - getting true value for money is hard these days, and certainly I've found that having knowledge up front makes a huge difference. Good luck when you pull that trigger... :-)
Absolutely fantastic series Gary. Informative, accurate and concise. I don't think there's a better channel out there explaining the practical considerations and implementation of solar panels out there. Well done!
Another brilliant video with eye-opening content, which totally reinforces parts of the learning matrix: "There are things, you know you don't know" & "Things you don't know, you don't know" Always an education and pleasure to watch. Thanks very much for the work and research put into these excellent videos 🙏
Thanks Nic - yeah, it always feels like I'm going down the rabbit hole every time I get into a topic! :-) But great to hear that you and others are getting a lot out of it! :-) I'll try to keep the channel interesting!
Gary’s series on solar is the best on RUclips in striking a balance between ease of understanding and technical detail. I wish I had this kind of information available when I installed solar on my home four years ago. I’m generally happy with my installation (12 Kilowatts with a SolarEdge inverter) but if I had it to do over again I would have explored going without the inverter and installing more panels (although it’s not clear whether SoCal Edison would have approved a larger system or if I could have found a reliable installer to agree going without inverters). My personal concern is whether or not to expand my system by adding battery capacity. Batteries are still relatively expensive, even with the current 30% tax credit. Additionally, there is the question of how many batteries to install, where to place them, and most importantly what goal I hope to achieve. The important question of return on investment is much more complicated for batteries than it is with solar panels. I would love to have Gary cover this in a future video.
Thanks for the very kind words, Richard. I'm not sure if you saw my video on ROI yet, but it allows you to model different solar/battery solutions to see what their ROI might be: ruclips.net/video/FvjuJQZRrvA/видео.html
Your conclusions make a lot of sense. I could invest in a high quality, reliable hybrid inverter for considerably less than a micro inverter based system.
Thanks Kevin. Yeah, for management of most types of shading, the bypass diodes in your panels will do a good job in a string inverter system. If you have a lot of trees around, then optimisers and microinverters have some value there.
Gary, your video is perfect! Explain everything very comprehensive way and I am really glad and appreciate you said a little bit ugly truth about reliability of system with optimizers... ...and microinverters as well. Well, everybody should know ALL pros and cons of the systems. Many installation companies don't tell the truth to customers. Thanks for your very professional approach! And as last time - my thumbs up!
It's great to get feedback like this - thank you, Martin :-) The videos are really hard work to produce, but as they seem to be helping a lot of people, I'm ok with it. And I'm learning quite a lot myself too!
Good update - thanks! I chose to use Tigo optimizers even though I have no shading issues. I installed the system myself and I will be maintaining it, so the monitoring will be extremely useful. Second, we need the safety shutdown at the panel level because of the new electric code in the US. The optimizers have that built in. One last advantage that optimizers have is they get the most out of each panel because each panel has a slightly different output level. I don't know how much it helps, but it probably isn't much.
Thanks Mark, and great to hear that the Tigo optimisers are working out for you. The safety shutdown is certainly a great feature. I general, I'm hoping that the manufacturers of optimiser and microinverter products continually improve reliability rates over time, and this surely will help take up of those products. Looking forward, I see no reason why microinvertors should not become the most popular solution for solar (even over string inverters), given all their benefits. Let's see what happens...
I only had my solar power system fitted earlier this month and have really enjoyed getting into the technical side of it. Your videos have been the best, most informative I have found, so thank you very much. My system: 18 x 405W Longhi panels Lux Power Tek 6K Hybrid Inverter 2 x Greenlinx 3.2kWh battery Getting a system installed at this time of year, well, of course I am not seeing the best it can do yet, but I have still had some good days, 15.5KWH one day! Not bad for the North of England.
Thanks pretty amazing generation for the time of year, where you are. The New Year is just around the corner and the brighter days are coming. You won't look back! :-) Btw, your array size is similar to what I'm (finally!) hoping to get installed. The date has been pushed back to end Feb... Oh joy....
@@GaryDoesSolar Today was an example of the other end of the spectrum, 1.4kWh. 🤣 A really grey/misty day. I really can't wait to see what I'll generate in the summer months. Ah well, at least February is the month where generation starts to ramp up again. Which kit are you going for? Or is this to be revealed in a later video?
Yeah, I might talk about my setup in a future video. But here’s what I’ve gone for: 19 x Perlight Delta 400W Total Black Mono panels 1 x GivEnergy Hybrid Gen 2 Inverter 2 x GivEnergy 9.5kWh batteries 1 x MyEnergi Eddi Still looking for a good EV charger solution…
@@GaryDoesSolar Sounds great. Nice battery capacity there too. We were not sure if a third battery would help us, the amount we use/the amount we can top up/the amount that the inverter can provide at one time, not sure if we would get the value out of a third battery, time will tell. We might be making an extra purchase! I believe that the Zappi is the go to EV Charger for solar.
Here in the Netherlands a big selling point for microinverters is the reduced risk of fire. Especially for installations with more than 10 panels the DC current will over time pose a greater risk. If the connect wears out and corrosion occurs in a connector that can lead to a very hot point of failure and may even cause a fire. The second one you already mentioned, that it is easier to replace a single panel in your system. Although this is very unlikely to be necessary.
How does one know what type panel architecture you have? The literature (data sheet) on my Hanwha Q.PEAK DUP BLK-G6 340 says nothing about the diodes or impacts of shading - silent. I have SolarEdge optimizers, and I’m fed up with them. Looking at removing them and the inverter, and just going panel array to inverter. Then the question is, being off grid, what tells the inverter to shut off when the PowerWalls are full? Currently, the Gateway raises the frequency, which the SolarEdge inverter sees as a grid fault, and shuts off. What I’d really like is for the inverter to throttle to meet the load, once the batteries are full, so they don’t shut off entirely. How?
Found your video whist researching solar optimizers. Did wonder why some installers are claiming they are essential if you have partial shading on your solar string, suggesting shading on one panel will knock all the panels. Clearing not true and thank you for explaining this so well.
Hi Gary, I would just like to say that another very informative video (again). Took the plunge last week and had an x18 half cut panel array, a 6kW hybrid inverter with 7kW hour battery system installed.
@@GaryDoesSolar errm no initially or so the data led me to think initially, now I understand a bit better yes, although I am already thinking of increasing my battery capacity from 7kWh to 10.5 or even 14kWh. See my reply to another post on this video. I didn't realise how much the output drops due to a dull, overcast winters day. I had a very good Friday last week (day 1 after commissioning) where I generated 15kWh and since then if I've had 1kWh per day I have been lucky. Yes, there was a bit of nieveity involved but once I compared instant results with other people then it reassured me that my system was working fine and it was purely a weather situation which was the reason for the extremely poor results. If I hadn't been able to do this compare then my installer would have been getting phone calls as to why.
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, yes it seems to be going quite well for the time of year. I seem to be outperforming my collegues 8ish array he has about 50 miles away but I think he is at a different angle to me. I would like to suggest to all watchers to join a group or talk to friends / collegues about there daily generation as in winter it is a lot lower than summer and not to get dispondent and question the decision when you (my system) only generates 0.19kWh in a day.
Me neither, John! And you're very welcome! :-) A quick question, if I may: you did some thermal imaging in one of your recent videos, and as you're pretty expert in photography, what equipment did you use? Was it a standalone unit, or combined with some of your existing camera equipment? And have you ever analysed your arrays with it? Many thanks!
@@GaryDoesSolar I purchased a Hti HT-A1 standalone camera. I'm not sure they are still available new as it's fairly old now. I had not even thought of using it on my arrays until you covered it in this video, however I will be once we get some better weather.
"The Tigo Optimizers would not work unless they were connected to the internet" Thank you for that warning. When talking to my contractor on what I would like for an installation, I specified "No cloud services whatsoever". They were like "We might have to hack some stuff". Freaking wild. Cant even buy a brick. It has to be a spy brick.
Yeah, this is the world we seem to be living in now - everything is connected. I can hardly complain about it myself as a lot of my career is in the mobile industry where I developed the technology to do much of that. I get it though, that for many people, they prefer not to have devices around them connected - unless absolutely necessary :-/
Thanks for the two parts Gary, I was very pleased you covered the setup of having panels facing more than one direction. I plan on having panels in three directions to get the best output throughout the day. Think Microinverters will be my choice. Will check out Mark's blog as he is across the ditch as we say in NZ.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, David. And I'm very happy to have provided you with extra information on the topic, to help you make an informed decision. Although my comments to date on microinverters are been in the context of shading, I'm actually quite a fan of where that technology is going - so much so that I'm going to make a dedicated video on microinverters :-) Good luck with your solar journey (would be great to hear how it goes) and it's great to have viewers who are quite literally on the other side of the planet from me! :-)
I wonder whether your position has altered at all after your recent video with Enphase? I suspect no as I suspect you didn’t learn much more than you already know, but, regardless of that, thank you for these very informative videos. My issue is a complex roof space that would probably end up with too many strings for an average inverter, so an Enphase type system might suit, but the jury is still out and these videos help a lot in the thought process.
No, the Enphase inverter hasn't changed my opinion, which was expressed in my original video: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html Yeah, microinverters could be a good solution for you - or a Tesla Powerwall 3 - see here: ruclips.net/video/sSpQSDSVQ9M/видео.htmlsi=w6r_lfv-y1-o5NjM
Another brilliant video Gary. Reassuring that the micro-inverters I'm having installed in January because of our panel installation is spread across two roofs on two buildings. Thanks as always for your in-depth research and clear explanations 👏
Super Information Gary!!!!! Thanks so much. You have made my choice much easier Garry. My 10 panel Qcell Solis sytem in Ireland is costing about 7700. I will also get 32 cent for the energy I export to the grid. My current unit rate I pay for energy is 44 cent. I watched your video on buy now or wait. I think in Ireland buy now is better :)
Great video Gary. I'm planning to move house next year and want to fill the roof of the new house as much as I possibly can with solar panels. You've given me good advise on what to look for when it comes to the installation. 👍
Thank you! I have been struggling to decide between a string inverter and the micro inverters. My system is to be small and on the ground but I'd like it to be as trouble free and reliable as possible for as long as possible. Great info. Thank you very much for your efficient and understandable presentation.
Thanks for the thoughtful info! I would just add that systems with micro-inverters where one fail with reduce your production by that panel only, a system with string inverter that fails stop all production until the inverter can be replaced. Perhaps 2 weeks to 1 month should be expected without production.
Gary - great series of videos. I just moved to Octopus Energy and applied your referral code. So £50 should be on its way to you. Thanks for the very informative and useful videos.
Hi Stephen, I received an email yesterday from Octopus about your sign-up - thank you so much for this! Very much appreciated :-) Glad that you're liking my videos. More coming soon...
The thing I don't like about the micro-inveters (I had enphase on a previous house) is that they are generally grid tied, so unless you have a more complex(and expensive) setup to isolate you from the grid automatically and then kick on another inverter feeding back voltage into the micro-inveters you will have several KW of panels that aren't providing you anything when the grid itself is down.
Micro-inverters are much safer! Good afternoon and excellent presentation and follow-up. Please let's not forget, if not the most critical aspect of a micro-inverter vs. a string, Safety, and Rapid module/panel level shutdown. I would not want 600 to 1500VDC that can not be shut off over the heads of my loved ones living under my roof with a string inverter. My Family's health and safety are worth a few dollars, which I have recuperated in the long lifespan and increased solar harvest of the NEP microinverter.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I think many people are slowly starting to see the benefits of microinverters, especially for the mass consumer market, where, statistically, there will be a growing number of incidents. I'd guess that we'd then see safety legislation (like rapid shutdown) that already exists in the US and other countries, being applied throughout the rest of the world.
Another very useful video. Have subscribed! The MC Electrical reliability report is interesting, especially considering that the Enphase micro inverters have much more to do than the SolarEdge optimizers. From the report they seem to be able to handle the heat and dust in Australia, but what about the cold and wet of northern Europe? Hamburg in my case. Have you come across any reliability figures from installers closer to home?
Gary. We are brothers in thought. I have 3 roof aspects to cover in a 5+5+3 configuration. After alot of searching I conclude that a 3 MPPT inverter is the simplest and most reliable way to go. Solis, SMA and Goodwe make 3 MPPT single phase inverters. I just don't know which Mfr is best.
:-) and I agree, a 3 string inverter sounds ideal for you. Worth asking about manufacturers on a local solar forum. Here is a link to a good UK one: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466
In the US NEC has required rapid shutdown systems which micro-inverters, or DC optimizers provide that functionality. The cost of buying a DC optimizer is only about $$10 more than a rapid shutdown module. That is something to consider most local city inspections will require that rapid shutdown switch. Ground mounted systems don't require the rapid shutdown switch only rooftop.
Super impressed with your solar video series. I'm in the process of deciding on my own solar set up and found your video on microinverters and optimisers very useful. I agree with your conclusion and will not be going that route. Can you recommend an installer who installs the Perlight Delta shingled panels you chose?
Thanks for the kind words, Paul - and I’m very happy to hear that my videos have been so helpful to you. Now, most installers should be able to get hold of those panels are they’re quite popular. Just specify that you’re looking for those particular ones. Good luck!
Hi Garry, what type of thermal imaging are you referring to if you say 'specific for solar panels' ? Thank you in advance for your reply and thumbs up for your super videos!
Thank you Mark - that's very kind of you and much appreciated! And great to hear you're already up and running. My installation tale is a sorry one, having started it nearly a year ago, but I'm looking at the end of February now (fingers crossed). My battery array size will be similar to yours - I think there are revenue opportunities for such capacity :-)
Thanks for the video Gary. I'm not sure I really understood the split panel mptt optimisation, a single panel is easy to follow, but surely with an array of panels if it used half the voltage that would decrease the overall output significantly? It must find an optimum point, but the diodes are either open of closed and I'm thinking that will always be closed so no advantage?
Hi Stephen, you're most welcome. Yeah, the way I like to think about MPPT, is that it appears an intelligent process but it's not. The MPPT controller in a string inverter simply adjusts the voltage from 0 upwards (a sweep) every minute or so, to see which voltage gives the highest current, and therefore the highest power. It doesn't know about bypass diodes or even optimisers, how they work or anything. The problem for the string inverter MPPT controller is that if there is shading only on one panel, it can't really do anything to optimise that because it will surely bring down the current on all the other panels, so in reality, it's only effective if all of the panels in that string have exactly the same kind of shading (say the lower half of each panel shaded by an adjacent building later in the afternoon). In my mind, these conditions are rare, really, what is the increased generation advantage? Interested in your thoughts on this...
@@GaryDoesSolar Definitely sounds rare in a string, but with an optimiser per panel it’s perhaps a further option when all 3 sections have shading on one half. I expect there are other benefits of the split panel, as this one sounds quite marginal. It would seem like smarter electronics in a panel could handle shading better than diodes, but perhaps it’s avoided due to generating heat. I have panels going up tomorrow with a little shading from a chimney, I’ve gone against my installers advice and will try without optimisers and just position the panels away and accept some loss, my feeling is that shadow is only a factor when there is direct sun, and that’s less common anyway later in the year when shadows are longer. It’s an EW roof with a 40 degree tilt so the only months where the sun is high enough to reach the other side limit the shadow length. I wish I could do 3D trig to properly work it out, but alas beyond my maths ability.
@@smc812 Hope all goes well with the installation - and I reckon you'll be fine not having the optimisers given what you say. And there's still plenty of summer left for some nice generation 🙂
Thanks Gary I can't get any panels for free but I was thinking about getting these for my parents. Half their roof faces north, and it suffers from shading via the chimney I figured it'd still be worth putting them on a north facing roof if the panels are free, and get optimisers instead For myself, I don't really get shading, so I don't bother with optimisers.
What country are you located in, Waqas? If the UK, then North-facing could be a real problem as it will hardly ever get direct sunlight (except in the Summer, depending on the pitch).
Hi Muhammed, you're very welcome - great to get feedback like this! And yeah, if you don't have any shading, or only hard shading in places, then optimisers are unlikely to add a lot of value.
Hello Gary - very interesting video - thanks!. One thing to consider with multiple peaks on the IV curve is that you might expect the newer inverters to perform global sweeps, but the real question is how effective these are. My Solax inverter has this function, but it's disabled by default! You can set it to do the GMPPT every 1/3/4 hours but if the shade is changing, I imagine that this would be far too infrequent. My guess is that the GMPPT function takes some time to perform, thereby limiting the ability to adjust frequently. Am I right in thinking that the MPPT (now thinking of local version, which (according to Solax) sweeps from the right and finds the first peak), is basically adjusting the voltage as the independent variable, and the current is the dependent? in layman's terms, it's essentially swapping part of the current on the string for voltage. By adjusting the voltage upwards, the current is reduced, which means that the resistive effect of shade is less? I ask, because sometimes I see on my string a high voltage when the conditions are poor, and then as the sun comes out, the current increases and voltage decreases. I can understand the current increase as a direct consequence of the sun coming out, but I guess the voltage drop is due to the MPPT (otherwise I believe the voltage would be fairly constant).
Hi Daniel, you're welcome on the video. Yeah, MPPT is a bit of a black art! Global MPPT sweeps do take a little time and you're not generating while they're in progress so limiting the number per hour is a good thing. Trouble is, that you're not then getting the benefit of them! Local MPPT usually can't the other peaks so it's really only Global MPPT that works :-/ Yeah, the only control factor that the inverters has is the voltage.
Would be good to have a view on how wiring panels in parallel rather than series on a multi orientation roof install would mitigate shading issues. The MC electrical blog suggests that optimisers are needed/useful for multi orientations but would wiring the string in parallel mitigate the need for them?
Thank you for sharing this. I’m considering adding bifacial solar to an arch at the stern of a sailboat as reflections from the sea and the boat might improve the overall wattage. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
Great pair of videos. If you are choosing a panel because of its warranty, how will you know that one of say 20 - 30 panels has fallen to say 85% of rated output when it should be 90%, without optimisers. In the 1st video you said the optimiser could cost as much as a panel. I would like to see a half decent $80 panel, because that is what the Tigos cost here in Australia, or Huawei at about $65-70. THe Huawei optimisers are warranted for 25 years I understand.
Hi double-x :-) thanks for taking the time to comment on my shading videos - very much appreciated! Now, you raise a good point. Without any kind of monitoring, how would you know? And without any panel-based MPPT (either via optimisers or microinverters) how would your system ensure that those panels which have deteriorated the worst, don't bring down production of the others? I mean, it all points to the argument of *having* optimisers/microinverters, but I worry about their reliability, which could end up costing you more than they're saving... That said, I do think there is a case for microinverters as the key to mass adoption of solar - something I'm making a video on shortly... With regard to pricing, your point is valid (wrt optimisers) - they're relatively inexpensive now - although I do believe you have to buy a separate monitoring unit for the array as well?
That's not really my thing, but there are many videos available on RUclips that cover that, for example: ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=wiring+solar+panels
Hi Gary, a very insightful video and indeed your entire series are a must watch for anyone considering PV install. I am looking in to PV and I do have a three aspect array requirement East / West - Main House roof and South facing detached garage. We do have shading and tree issues (more pronounced in the winter - lower sun angle) so I originally thought I would be installing a Solar Edge optimiser based system, complete with 400w mono black Half- Cell panels, but I must say I am now rethinking it after watching your video, perhaps changing to Shingled design panels? I can't seem to find a three MPPT inverter in the Solar edge range, perhaps It is just not an option? I also looked into the Perlight delta 400w Shingled panels, and they look very good, but perhaps the Hyundai 400w Shingled Panel, which has a 25 year product /25 year performance warranty, seems to trump the Perlight delta 15 year product / 25 year performance warranty? Although the Perlight delta is a more efficient panel (21.3% for the Perlight Delta Vs 20.4% for the Hyundai) perhaps this swayed your choice? Are these the only Shingled PV 400w panels available in the UK currently? I couldn't find anything else.
Thanks for the kind words, Ade. And great to hear that I've got you thinking about your installation options :-) Worth checking on sites like below for any shingled panels: midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/perlight-monocrystalline-solar-panels solarsuppliesuk.co.uk/product-category/solar-pv/solar-panels/
Hello Gary! I love your videos! Quick question - for "triangular" shading situation (example terrace wall or half wall on roof), that would cover a triangle from left lower corner of panel towards the middle of the panel on the right side. What would be the best solution? A shingled panel? Some different managment approach? Could you mix different panel variations due to shading issues, but considering all of the panels having the same specs? Sorry for the long question,thank you in advance! :)
Crikey - lots of questions! :-) So for triangular shading, you're likely tripping 2 of the 3 bypass diodes in a typical non-shingled panel. I can't answer easily for a shingled panel, but they're all laid out in different ways, but I suspect it's not going to be too different - you might only get a 3rd of the maximum output. I wouldn't recommend mixing panel specs on the same string as this can give additional issues.
Very useful! Currently researching what solution to get, and certainly, SolarEdge are very popular - but seeing the reliability review from MC Electrical gives me pause. That said, the review is a few years old now, and Mark admits in more recent comments that he hasn't gone back to the product to see if things have changed. So, it's off to Trustpilot to see if there's some insights to be had there. MC Electrical seem to rate Fronius highly - but there aren't many reviews on TP to make a solid judgement. However, the reviews that do show up there, are largely negative. SolarEdge don't do especially well either on TP, albeit they have more positive reviews than many of their competitors. If that's 'the best' I can get in terms of customer service though, then it's still enticing, even if I don't technically need the 'benefits' of optimisers, and could be risking additional failure points. It's all about whether I'll be looked after if those problems occur. Still, lots more research to do!
with micro inverters, how do they synchronize phase? I understand that grid systems sync to the grid - but if you're off grid, what's going on? Great deal of easy to follow information! Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm not an expert in off-grid approaches, but I note that certain Enphase products are able to "grid form": enphase.com/download/iq8-grid
Thanks for the Video Gary. When you are saying "Inverter" are you talking about micro inverters only or string inverters as well? I have half cut panels with bypass diodes with an all in one MPPT string inverter.
You're most welcome. Yeah, it can get confusing between "inverter" and "microinverter". So, in my videos, if I just say "inverter" I'm always referring to a string inverter. Hope this helps!
Hi Garry great video but feel you have missed some other benefits of microinvertors. You note in video if microinvertor shows issue you can not resolve it. I had a failure and I used the ABB powerone microiinver to reboot and repair microinvertor. You can update microinvertor softwar and change standards as standards evolve. Ours changed and microinver software covered change. If say panel fails I don’t loose string and I actually know which panel failed. We have 20 panels so we loose 1/20 or 5%. Where as string could be effected and you don’t know which is effected panel. Power from microinvertors is cooler as wash is just converting power at lower domestic voltage and ours is 230 volts + or - 10%. So as you noted growing system is easy. But other feature you missed is string connection to main inverter is high voltage hotter connection and a number of fires in Australia were identified as isolation solar switch arching. As each panel has microinverter there is no main inverter to place so installation is quicker and placement of inverter is not an issue. Main inverter run hot and have say 15 year like. As they day you loose all power or one phase. But as microinvertor is running cooler life is longer but as failure occur it will be a unit in many so solar is continued to be generated. I learnt a bit about the improvement in solar cell shading features as our system in circa 2014. So much in 1/2 cell and shingle is new to me as we are not in the market to replace.
Very informative Ive been recommended Perlight Delta 425W Total Black Mono panels. Are these the shingle panels that you refer to? The datasheet refers to a parallel configuration but does not give any details. My roof is subject to dappled shading from neighbours trees, which will only get worse as they continue to grow, so shading is a concern to me, and I have been considering whether or not to use optimisers. Fortunately, it is a flat first floor roof, and access is simple, I just climb out of a bedroom window. Any thoughts?
Hi Jeremy, great that you're getting something out of my video :-) Yes, I have Perlight Delta 415W panels on my roof, which are shingled. I'm sure yours are too. Sorry to hear about the shading you have. As it is from trees (therefore diffuse), optimisers could help here, and having easier access will help in the unlikely event an optimiser fails. Be careful though if you're attempting to resolve issues yourself - your safety is paramount. All the best with whatever you decide.
Gary made one big assumption in his recommendations and that is the Solar Panels are mounted on a roof. While that is certainly true of most installations for the smaller number of low mounted panels a different set of calculations come in to play regarding optimisers. Firstly replacing a faulty unit is not an expensive or difficult operation when panels are mounted where there is easy access. Secondly ground mounted panels are more likely to suffer from shading. And thirdly something that Gary did not touch on is electrical safety, this much more important where there is easy access and optimisers improve this considerably by reducing the maximum open circuit voltage to just 1V. For these reasons on a ground or low mounted installation I think that optimisers are something that should be seriously considered by installers.
Agreed regarding access to microinverters and optimisers is easy for ground-mounted arrays, but my videos are really targeted for those looking at roof-based installations (the predominant use case). And in my videos, where I show an array, it is always on a tiled roof. Not many people are in a position to set up a ground-array solution. On the electrical safety point, what you say is true, but not relevant to the topic of the videos which was shading. All that said, and aside from shading, I really do like the concept of microinverters, and so my video after next will be all about the benefits of them, with a challenge out to the manufacturers, which could result in microinverters being the de facto standard for all domestic solutions.
Hi, Gary, thanks for the 2 videos on optimisers advantages/disadvantages. I am considering taking your advice and referral to go with Octopus, but I have a concern over the advantage of Octopus Go and the 4 hour overnight cheap rate. I have a solar system with 8 kWh battery storage and Solis 3.6 kW hybrid inverter. The normal protocol regarding the taking and usage of power for home use is solar, then battery then grid. So if I within the 4 hour rate charge my ev vehicle at my 7kW charger and have set the inverter to charge my batteries at the same time, what will happen? Will the car take the energy at 3.6 kW from the batteries first through the inverter and then take only the remaining kW from the cheap grid rate to make up the 7kW requirement of the charger? OR will it do this AND also charge the batteries as well, thus maintaining the state of charge of the batteries so that I still have sufficient energy to cheaply power the house until the solar kicks in later in the morning? If you have an ev, what do you do to maximise the use of the 4 hour cheap rate?
Hi Barrie, you're most welcome regarding the shading videos - thanks for the feedback! And it would be very kind of you to make use of my referral code and move to Octopus - it all helps with the costs of keeping my channel running :-) Ok, onto overnight charging then. My understanding is this (based on what I've heard as I don't have an EV yet): You can charge your EV and solar battery at the same time - there is a mode on the Solis that allows you to set a timed charge between 00:30 and 04:30 - so no issues there. And of course your grid supply will easily be able to charge both devices concurrently.
How about making a video about how to match one or two panel arrays with a string inverter eg match voltage, amps, string inputs etc? By the way, is the string inverter limitation for voltage or amps per string or per string inverter as a total? Out of curiosity, what are the chances for Octopus to expand to more European countries? I know they are in Spain and France.
It’s really down to the installer to get all that right. As a homeowner, all you need to worry about is how many and where you’d like the solar panels to be located. Your installer will then do all the calculations for the inverter size, string allocation etc.
What do you think of wind turbines based on the archemedies screw like the Liam F1 that I’m seeing videos for? Maybe you can do a video about whether there’s a place for turbines in our homes too.
Now, domestic wind generation is certainly an option that many are starting to look at, to compliment solar. But (unfortunately) there are a number of factors that limit it’s viability in consumer applications: Wind turbines are not quiet - worse, the noise varies with the wind strength, could drive any neighbours close by insane. They are also nothing like solar panels in terms of reliability - you might find you’re spending a fair amount of time, money and effort keeping them going. And they’re expensive. Like really expensive for one that generates even just a few kW. Also watch out for the advertising. Some retailers talk in terms of kW (power) when they’re actually taking about kWh (energy) - even a cheap 30cm diameter turbine will generate 20kWh given enough time!
I'm having an issue, I have 8x 460w JA Solar panels connected in series to a Deye 5kva inverter, the problem I am facing is in the morning from 8am to 10am 2 of the panels are shaded, but the other 6 have full sun but I get no production showing on the inverter 100w to be exact , only after 10am when then all unshaved then it spikes up to 1800w instantly , is this correct behavior?
Hi Paul, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466). However, I'm happy to provide my own views on specific scenarios, which would not constitute as advice) to members messaging me on my Patreon channel, which you can find here: www.patreon.com/GaryDoesSolar Good luck!
Thanks for the shingled tips! Carry on the good work ! Can you please investigate the UK installation market : I am been offered for a 4 panels setup a 6000£ (2000£ of parts)… while my setup (on top my garage) does not require any scaffolding!
My pleasure - it seems like shingled panels are most definitely the future - not least, because you can make different panel designs with them. Tesla are taking this approach for their solar roof tiles, for example. Check out the Facebook group I mentioned in my latest video - its a great forum to ask questions about quotes etc. Good luck with everything!
Hi Nicolas, one of the quotes I recieved when I was looking 2 months ago for a 12x 365w panel array coupled to a 3.6kW inverter was £5791.60 fully fitted. For the same install but with 5kWh battery and hybrid inverter the cost changed to £9225.60 fully fitted. Labour charge was £1550 / £1750 respectively. I hope this info helps.
My intended solar panel array is to be on my new build in a green field site, no trees, no shading ! Can I have a string solar array, no micro inverters or optimizers ?
I would not want to give you specific advise on the matter. Certainly, the three main reasons why someone would get optimises are: - you’re installing a SolarEdge inverter, and so optimisers are mandatory - you have shading - you want to monitor the performance of each of your panels rather than just the array as a whole.
I’m the process of purchasing solar I have a chimney from a wood burner on a south facing roof. The positioning of the chimney means the shading only occurs late afternoon so I am wondering if optimisers are now worth the cost and long term issues if they fail welcome your opinion
Unfortunately, l'm not in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues, even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer for such advice, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466). Good luck!
Hi Gary there is one area the needs talking about is the legal right of solar panels to light I have personal experience with this my own solar array which have had for over 10 years now has been working fine up to now, our neighbour has now erected an extension on their roof which create a major overshadowing we opposed on the grounds of of overshadowing but as the development is under permitted development wrights, I have sought solicitor advise and a barrister ,the barrister's opinion was that we had little chance of success ,the council where no help at all we're not interested and so the development is going ahead, there seems to be very little we can do so we'll just have to put up with the loss. I would love your I comments ,Tim Farley
Hi Timothy, sorry to hear that you're having to deal with such an issue. Here are some links that might be useful to you: dysonenergyservices.co.uk/what-is-your-right-to-light-for-solar-panels/ www.harrison-drury.com/business-law/commercial-property/can-i-protect-the-access-to-sunlight-to-my-solar-panels/ www.cms-lawnow.com/ealerts/2021/11/hot-property-solar-panels-and-rights-of-light?cc_lang=en Definitely worth involving legal expertise, but make sure they're armed with the above as this issue is a relatively new one. Good luck!
From a SolarEdge article: "The exact point at which the PV cell becomes a power consumer instead of producer changes between different types of cells and diodes, but usually a difference of 20% between the light hitting the surfaces of different cells in a substring is enough to activate the bypass diode of the substring." www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_technical_bypass_diode_effect_in_shading.pdf
@@nodelayfordays8083 Yeah, and in my videos, this is why a single leaf covering a cell can cause bypass diodes to activate. Shading is a real issue for solar panels....
Hi Gary - Great video I have a small array of 10x REC260PE Panels and decided that as they don’t all receive direct sunlight during the day, I would install some Solar Edge P320-5NC4ARS 320W Power Optimizers. The install ran into the evening and finished after sundown. This morning the system was not powering up - on investigation I find that none of the panels (Optimizers removed) are producing any volts - I’d appreciate your thoughts - Regards
Hi there, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice, (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466) Good luck!
Hi Garry Just a quick question. Do you have any update on the Tigo optimiser problems outlined by Mark in his blog post?. I have just recieved the design for my system from the installer and they want to use Tigo to handle the East /West split. Im just wondering if we will need the monitering system to make them work. Simon
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Garry. Thanks for the quick reply. I have decided to get the monitoring system as the price is relitively small compared to the whole system, And if you have these things you might as well know what is going on up there!!
I have Perlight Delta 415W panels, which I believe out performs full cell and is at least as good as half-cell: www.perlight.com/perlight-delta-400w.html
Hello Sir, If the current is reduced to 5 A for one PV and you have several PV's in series, all the string will run at 5 A, meaning that the power is reduced also like in the case of FC when the bypass diod is not on ( reduced irradiationce on the cell). My question is in the example that you showed at minute 4 to 6 would not be better to have that diod active so we will have 10 A and 20 W? (meaning the string runs at 10 A and the rest of the panel in the string have 300 W instead of 150W when the current is reduced to 5A) Thank you!
I'm not sure I understood your question correctly, but if you're talking about the scenario at 6:10, then this scenario is for only one panel in the string, therefore the MPPT of the inverter is best to reduce the current to 5 amps to get the highest power output. If there were several panels in the string and only this particular panel had shading, the MPPT inverter (which acts on the string as a whole) would automatically see that pushing 10 amps through the string will provide the highest output, as you suggest. Hope this explains :-)
Hi and thanks for this. In part 1, shading 2 substrings reduced the panel's output to 100W. The 3 panels together than have an output of 700W. This 300W half cell example shows similar shading reduces output to 150W by the inverter reducing the current to 5A. But this affects all panels on the string doesn't it? So we'll have 150W from the partially shaded panel and two more running at 5A each, so 150W each. 450W total. Now I'm also lost as to why a partially shaded panel has the same output as an unshaded panel. Doesn't that make a half cell panel string worse than full cell under partial shade? Please point out where I've gone wrong! :)
Ok, I see where you're coming from - this is where optimisers and micro inverters come in, in fact. A perfect scenario for them to be useful! Aside from that, if it's the case that all the panels suffer the same kind of shading, which means the string inverter can reduce the current and all the panels will benefit.
Unless there’s shading on the panels optimisers are really not worth it. It would be a reallly bad investment from the money perspective. They only increase output in single percentage digit, while costing almost as much as an extra panel. Most of the time the array is better off with an extra panel rather than a bunch of optimisers
Yeah, whilst there could well be a benefit of using optimisers to counteract shading, I came to the view that there is little (and largely unknown) differential in the level of benefit compared to the cost of achieving it. Given that, people might get a greater return on that money spent elsewhere...
Just thinking about optimisers / micro-inverters - if the installer brought the panel cabling into the loft and connect ed these devices in the loft then that would make these far easier to swap out if one had an issue.
That's potentially a lot of holes in your roof underlay (breathable membrane, bitumen felt etc) though I have seen it done that way on at least one RUclips video I saw (can't recall which one though)
Hi great video, please I have a question : my grid tie solar installation is with Huawei SUN2000-5KTL-L1 Which only use high (400v) voltage batteries but I will like to use 48v lithium battery with it, so please how can I make this combination work? Thanks in advance
Thanks for the kind words. Now unfortunately, l'm not in a position to provide advice on specific situations, not least because of potential liability issues - even if advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466) Good luck!
In winter ie Now what should we expect from an 8.8 kw system My highest Kw generation figure was about 35 mins at 3kw about 12.45 10kwh for full day. not as much as expected to be fair.
I had a 6.12kW virtually south facing system installed last Thursday . Friday I had 15kWh generated with a peak of 3.3kW. Since then I have had virtually no generation at all as Lincolnshire has been very cloudy / overcast and damp.
Hi Mark, worth using the tool I described at 5m56s in this video: ruclips.net/video/ccm1HmxELlQ/видео.html - it'll tell you with a fair degree of accuracy...
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, I agree with you about the pv calc but this doesn't give the user an idea of day to day generation (unless I am missing something) for an installation especially when it is new and you don't have any practical data to go off. It certainly has suprised me how little is generated on a winters day when overcast. In some ways this is the best time to start as you get the worst case from the off so you then get used to the low results and then come early spring it will be a welcome suprise to see the output change. I found it useful to compare with work collegues as initially it appears that the system has a problem with virtually no generation these last few days when it is all new to me.
The have three roofs facing east, south and west, as many inverters only have the capability of connecting two strings I believe optimisers or micro inverters are my only option. It is possible I could place all the panels on the west on one string with optimisers or micro inverters but for the panels facing east and south it seems my only option is optimisers or micro inverters?
Hi Gary, thank you for the great video, and presenting this important topic in such a clear way. Edit: I subsequently realised my Q2 was previously asked by @Robert Sporne and answered thanks. I had a couple of questions/comments and would appreciate your and others comments. Please bear with me as I am not a solar installer 1) Would it be correct that split cell performance in shade will vary from portrait to landscape orientation based on the shape and position of partial shading? 2) Loosely paraphrasing from your video, modern MPPTs deal with partial shading on a split cell panel by detecting a second MPP which prevents the bypass from "kicking in". However, would this occur for string of split cell panels, if only one panel is partially shaded? If the global sweep select the higher amperage as the MPP, would this mean the bypass diodes for the shaded panel then "kick in"? If so, this suggests local panel mppt is required. 3) What is the threshold of current at which these diodes "kick in". Does the current split at the diode string junction. E.g. one partially shaded cell causes current to drop, but also diode current to increase hence string current is unchanged? 4) I have seen advice (maybe from MC Electrical?) that diode failure may not be covered by panel warranty, hence it is good to avoid relying on diodes for shade management. Generally I have taken this as a case for optimisers for frequent partially shaded locations.
Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I'll try to answer your remaining questions: 1) Yes 3) My understanding is a 20% difference in current 4) If I've noticed anything about solar equipment warranties, they're full of gotchas! As such, they're not really worth much unfortunately - failed diodes or otherwise :-/ MC Electrical notes on one of their blog posts that diode failures are incredibly rare
Hi having the enphase micro inverters this added £3,600 to my quote ,do companies offer this as an easier installation option, also is there any solar grants ,or any help towards such renewable energy, as we all could do with a little help with the cost 🤔 ,as always great info
It's crazy, the pricing that's going around at the moment. I hope you're able to get the deal you're looking for. Yeah, the VAT saving isn't as good as some countries, but it all helps...
It seems that Companies prefers to supply micro inverters/Optimizers so then can charge a % on top of each item witch at the end would be more than fitting 1 string inverter + the fitting time.
2% fail wow. I worked for a large telecom manufacturer and when we ended up with a 3rd party dc/dc converter increasing failure rate by 0.05% it was drains up time.
Hi Garry, another great and informative video. You mentioned the potential problems of matching a replacement panel in the future if one were to fail (which could well be within warrantee period therefore manufacture’s / installers issue for the replacement?). However another consideration especially for the main inverter or battery system is obsolescence where the warrantee period is a lot less and with technology moving along quickly replacement parts may not be available. If this happens in just a few years time and an expensive replacement unit must then be fitted? Your thoughts? Thanks again :-)
Hi Robert - thank you. This latest video was really hard work! The most difficult to date in fact. Yeah, it's a real problem with parts no longer being available. All we can hope for is that prices come down over time, so that consumers have the choice of buying new (superior) parts, or having market outlets selling (cheaper) second-hand parts - just like other markets today (e.g. automotive, computer)...
If you use micro inverters that changes it to ac, how do you connect it to you inverter in the house if it is designed to run on DC? I know, beginners question.
No problem - all questions are welcome on this channel 👍🏻 In fact, once the microinverters have converted the DC to AC, there’s no need for an inverter at all. That AC is fed directly into the consumer unit of the house. This makes for a relatively straight-forward install.
You've totally hit the nail on the head there. So much research and development has gone into modern panels such as half cell technology, Top-Con, bypass diodes etc, all to increase longevity and production in shade. There are still a few small use cases for optimisers and microinverters but many consumers are being grossly misled by installers saying they'll lose the output of the whole system if an edge of a single panel is in shade. They pay more for no real return
Good point, David. And actually, just like any business today needs to adapt with the changing times, I expect the engineers within the companies that make optimisers and microinverters to wake up every day, thinking "what we have now is not good enough" then going on to design something revolutionary... I can dream...
@@GaryDoesSolar Over the life of the array, a 25-year warrantied microinverter system will be cheaper and more robust. You will lose 100% of the array when the string inverter fails or a panel goes down for whatever reason. Simply not so with microinverters. FEMA in the USA recommends microinverters over string for this very reason. Weather events are famous for provoking failures. With microinverters, the failure is limited to the panels involved rather than the system as a hole. I would rely on FEMA data over the local 3000-unit data set you quoted in this video. FEMA data comes from actual disaster events throughout the USA and territories. Enphase next generation microinverter will feature GaN, will address the newer 500-watt module output, and have a practical life of 40-50 years. Look for it Gary, Enphase is the power electronic innovation leader in the space:) As far as initial cost goes, no price increases are on the horizon, and with the IRA now law, the price per watt will see declines. Yes, clearly I am an Enphase fan:) Do love the content, not trying to through stones in your pond:)
Once again, you have got it wrong. If one sub string is shaded, then 5 amps will pass through the opposite sub string, and 5 amps will pass through the bypass diode, to ensure that the full 10 amps still flows through the string.
Ok, I have since seen your original comment (and have responded to that). I don’t mind criticism of my content, but being so forthright, I’m expecting you to provide strong evidence to support.
In this video, regarding the half cell panel, at 3:40, you state that if one half cell string is shaded (the bottom one in your vid), then the bypass diode will kick in, and the top half cell string is also lost. This is not the case, as the top half cell string will still deliver it's power. Bypass diodes don't just kick in-as you put it. They will start to bypass current at as little as a 1mA drop in current from that single string in a panel. With the half cell panels, when you shade the bottom half cell string, the top half cell string opposite to that of the shaded string still applies a reverse bias voltage across the bypass diode, and so 5 amps of current will run through that unshaded half cell string, and the other 5 amps of current will run through the bypass diode. If we partly shade one string in a panel, and there is 10 amps flowing through the string of panels, then 5 amps may flow through that partly shaded string in the panel, and the other 5 amps may pass through the bypass diode in that panel string. The partly shaded string in that panels doesn't simply stop passing current when the bypass diode starts to conduct. Hope this helps.
@@Sooty_Grandad Please take a look at this video (from 1m28s in) which aligns with what I state in my video. Are you still suggesting I'm wrong? ruclips.net/video/AZ8VQ_zmf1M/видео.html
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes, that video is incorrect. When the bottom half of the half cell string is shaded, you do not also lose the power output from the unshaded half of the half cell string. This was one of the reasons they designed these half cell panels like this. When the bottom half of the half cell string is shaded, you only lose 16.5% of the panels output, not 33%. Here is a video that explains how they work correctly. ruclips.net/video/otovXbs_qZs/видео.html
Diodes have a limited number of cycles on-off. Their meaning is not to handle shade every day. Their mission is to protect the panel. So If they are triggered daily you lose the panel !
Consider solar arrays on roofs in built up areas (i.e. most home installations). As the sun sets and rises, you could expect shading from other buildings on panels, which in turn would activate bypass diodes. This would happen day in, day out on sunny days, so how would you explain the non-occurrence of millions of panels failing after a few years?
I just wanted to say thanks for your videos. It really helped me talking to the sales person. At least it made me feel I had a level of knowledge that I could ask the right questions. My 14 panels, and 2x 3.2 batteries and 3.6 Lux Hydrid inverter were installed last Wednesday. I can’t stop looking at the monitoring 😊. After you last videos, I checked and we have half cell panels. We have had a few hours of free power. This impressed me for winter. Thanks again. I will still continue to watch.
Thanks for the very kind words, Michael. And also, I really appreciate your “super thanks” - it’s a lot of work to make my videos and so this means a great deal to me 😀👍🏻 Sounds like everything went well with your installation and it’s performing well in the winter, so this sets the scene for even better performance over the next 6 months - all the best!
I think I’d like to skip optimizers and microinverters, but I DO want a way to monitor performance on each panel. Does anyone manufacture a cheap per panel measurement hardware/software solution so I can see my array on my smartphone or internet connected laptop?
Thank you for a great and easy to understand content! I think you need to add some economical aspects: - optimizer cost about 55 EUR/per panel (without cost of labor) - they consume energy as well and it is about 2%, so this can put away the benefits - to be able to monitor individual panels, as mention their benefit, you need additional management box which cost you additional 250 EUR I think microinverters are better solution for smaller installations (do optimizer job and convert DC to AC and can be monitored individually without any additional HW) because you are very flexible (different orientation, no need to use "solar cables" for DC, just regular ones for AC) no need of central big inverter which cost from 1000 EUR and more. But at some point, if think only economically, they makes no sense because of the price, e.g. 10x 550 W panel needs 10 microinverters * 220 EUR = 2200 EUR instead of lets say 1500 EUR per central inverter.
Thanks for the extra insight. Now these videos were focussed on shading, but I plan on making a video on optimisers shortly, just to complete the picture on the dedicated microinverters video I made here: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
Hi Gary. Excellent video. I don’t get if I had panels on west and east on same string then given panel’s built in bypass diodes then it should handle the shade (or less sunlight) on west panels in the morning while full generation on east and vice versa in the afternoon. I say I don’t get it because you mention in the video that optimzers are needed if panels on same string face different directions
Thanks for the great feedback! Now, the problem comes from the fact that ALL the panels on your West roof will not be generating much in the morning , whereas ALL the panels on your East roof will be generating a lot (assuming a sunny day). The bypass diodes won't be able to handle that mismatch very well. You're far better putting each orientation on its own string as opposed to adding optimisers. Optimisers (and microinverters) work best when there is partial shading within a single orientation.
@@GaryDoesSolar thanks for your reply. I was confused about your video which illustrated it as a bent hose with the current being pulled down by the panels on different orientation - is that indeed true as it would seem to be contrary in my mind with your other examples that indicate if panell(s) are fully shaded and are on the same string, it would not effect power output from other panels; therefore I was assuming in a situation with panels on different orientation but same string could be modelled as simply panels with a lot of shade on them when sun is on the opposite side; does that make sense or am i missing something fundamental in my understanding ?
@@warperone The problem here is that the panels on the East and West roofs are never shaded as such - they're just not seeing direct sun at different times of the day. There is still a lot of ambient light around, and bypass diodes are designed only to manage partial shade.
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
I suspect that many installers aren't really keeping up with technology developments and simply have a few "recipies" that they choose from that they match against the house configuration and whatever kit they can get at the time.
From what I read, if MCS had any real oversight of those they certify, there would be mandatory ongoing education and training to keep them up to date.
I've yet to pull the trigger on a Solar PV/Battery system for my own house (NE/SW roofs with slight shading from chimney on NE roof), but I won't just be having whatever an installer throws at me. As it's my money and roof, I'll be having the kit *I* decide on.
Another well researched video BTW. Looking forward to your next one ...
You're totally right, Tony - getting true value for money is hard these days, and certainly I've found that having knowledge up front makes a huge difference. Good luck when you pull that trigger... :-)
Absolutely fantastic series Gary. Informative, accurate and concise. I don't think there's a better channel out there explaining the practical considerations and implementation of solar panels out there. Well done!
That's really kind of you to say, Alan - thank you :-)
Another brilliant video with eye-opening content, which totally reinforces parts of the learning matrix: "There are things, you know you don't know" & "Things you don't know, you don't know"
Always an education and pleasure to watch. Thanks very much for the work and research put into these excellent videos 🙏
Thanks Nic - yeah, it always feels like I'm going down the rabbit hole every time I get into a topic! :-) But great to hear that you and others are getting a lot out of it! :-) I'll try to keep the channel interesting!
Gary’s series on solar is the best on RUclips in striking a balance between ease of understanding and technical detail. I wish I had this kind of information available when I installed solar on my home four years ago. I’m generally happy with my installation (12 Kilowatts with a SolarEdge inverter) but if I had it to do over again I would have explored going without the inverter and installing more panels (although it’s not clear whether SoCal Edison would have approved a larger system or if I could have found a reliable installer to agree going without inverters). My personal concern is whether or not to expand my system by adding battery capacity. Batteries are still relatively expensive, even with the current 30% tax credit. Additionally, there is the question of how many batteries to install, where to place them, and most importantly what goal I hope to achieve. The important question of return on investment is much more complicated for batteries than it is with solar panels. I would love to have Gary cover this in a future video.
Thanks for the very kind words, Richard. I'm not sure if you saw my video on ROI yet, but it allows you to model different solar/battery solutions to see what their ROI might be: ruclips.net/video/FvjuJQZRrvA/видео.html
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks for the link, Gary!
Your conclusions make a lot of sense. I could invest in a high quality, reliable hybrid inverter for considerably less than a micro inverter based system.
Thanks Kevin. Yeah, for management of most types of shading, the bypass diodes in your panels will do a good job in a string inverter system. If you have a lot of trees around, then optimisers and microinverters have some value there.
Gary, your video is perfect! Explain everything very comprehensive way and I am really glad and appreciate you said a little bit ugly truth about reliability of system with optimizers...
...and microinverters as well.
Well, everybody should know ALL pros and cons of the systems. Many installation companies don't tell the truth to customers.
Thanks for your very professional approach! And as last time - my thumbs up!
It's great to get feedback like this - thank you, Martin :-) The videos are really hard work to produce, but as they seem to be helping a lot of people, I'm ok with it. And I'm learning quite a lot myself too!
Good update - thanks! I chose to use Tigo optimizers even though I have no shading issues. I installed the system myself and I will be maintaining it, so the monitoring will be extremely useful. Second, we need the safety shutdown at the panel level because of the new electric code in the US. The optimizers have that built in. One last advantage that optimizers have is they get the most out of each panel because each panel has a slightly different output level. I don't know how much it helps, but it probably isn't much.
Thanks Mark, and great to hear that the Tigo optimisers are working out for you. The safety shutdown is certainly a great feature.
I general, I'm hoping that the manufacturers of optimiser and microinverter products continually improve reliability rates over time, and this surely will help take up of those products. Looking forward, I see no reason why microinvertors should not become the most popular solution for solar (even over string inverters), given all their benefits. Let's see what happens...
I only had my solar power system fitted earlier this month and have really enjoyed getting into the technical side of it. Your videos have been the best, most informative I have found, so thank you very much.
My system:
18 x 405W Longhi panels
Lux Power Tek 6K Hybrid Inverter
2 x Greenlinx 3.2kWh battery
Getting a system installed at this time of year, well, of course I am not seeing the best it can do yet, but I have still had some good days, 15.5KWH one day! Not bad for the North of England.
Thanks pretty amazing generation for the time of year, where you are. The New Year is just around the corner and the brighter days are coming. You won't look back! :-)
Btw, your array size is similar to what I'm (finally!) hoping to get installed. The date has been pushed back to end Feb... Oh joy....
@@GaryDoesSolar Today was an example of the other end of the spectrum, 1.4kWh. 🤣 A really grey/misty day. I really can't wait to see what I'll generate in the summer months.
Ah well, at least February is the month where generation starts to ramp up again.
Which kit are you going for? Or is this to be revealed in a later video?
Yeah, I might talk about my setup in a future video. But here’s what I’ve gone for:
19 x Perlight Delta 400W Total Black Mono panels
1 x GivEnergy Hybrid Gen 2 Inverter
2 x GivEnergy 9.5kWh batteries
1 x MyEnergi Eddi
Still looking for a good EV charger solution…
@@GaryDoesSolar Sounds great. Nice battery capacity there too.
We were not sure if a third battery would help us, the amount we use/the amount we can top up/the amount that the inverter can provide at one time, not sure if we would get the value out of a third battery, time will tell. We might be making an extra purchase!
I believe that the Zappi is the go to EV Charger for solar.
Yeah, agreed - Zappi seems to be the way to go...
Here in the Netherlands a big selling point for microinverters is the reduced risk of fire. Especially for installations with more than 10 panels the DC current will over time pose a greater risk. If the connect wears out and corrosion occurs in a connector that can lead to a very hot point of failure and may even cause a fire.
The second one you already mentioned, that it is easier to replace a single panel in your system. Although this is very unlikely to be necessary.
Thanks Jeroll - these are great points. I think safety of solar installations is going to become more and more prominent as the mass market grows.
I've also heard people are not getting home insurance renewed because of high DC voltage from Solar Panels?
And if you have the room, you could take the money saved on the power optimizers and spend it on additional panels. Giving you more power.
I can't argue with that :-)
How does one know what type panel architecture you have? The literature (data sheet) on my Hanwha Q.PEAK DUP BLK-G6 340 says nothing about the diodes or impacts of shading - silent. I have SolarEdge optimizers, and I’m fed up with them. Looking at removing them and the inverter, and just going panel array to inverter. Then the question is, being off grid, what tells the inverter to shut off when the PowerWalls are full? Currently, the Gateway raises the frequency, which the SolarEdge inverter sees as a grid fault, and shuts off. What I’d really like is for the inverter to throttle to meet the load, once the batteries are full, so they don’t shut off entirely. How?
Found your video whist researching solar optimizers. Did wonder why some installers are claiming they are essential if you have partial shading on your solar string, suggesting shading on one panel will knock all the panels. Clearing not true and thank you for explaining this so well.
My pleasure, James :-)
Hi Gary, I would just like to say that another very informative video (again). Took the plunge last week and had an x18 half cut panel array, a 6kW hybrid inverter with 7kW hour battery system installed.
Thanks Adrian - and great to hear you've taken the plunge! Sounds like a very nice setup! Is it all working as expected?
@@GaryDoesSolar errm no initially or so the data led me to think initially, now I understand a bit better yes, although I am already thinking of increasing my battery capacity from 7kWh to 10.5 or even 14kWh. See my reply to another post on this video. I didn't realise how much the output drops due to a dull, overcast winters day. I had a very good Friday last week (day 1 after commissioning) where I generated 15kWh and since then if I've had 1kWh per day I have been lucky. Yes, there was a bit of nieveity involved but once I compared instant results with other people then it reassured me that my system was working fine and it was purely a weather situation which was the reason for the extremely poor results. If I hadn't been able to do this compare then my installer would have been getting phone calls as to why.
Ok, so it's actually sounding quite good so far... sunnier days are around the corner (I hope!)
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, yes it seems to be going quite well for the time of year. I seem to be outperforming my collegues 8ish array he has about 50 miles away but I think he is at a different angle to me. I would like to suggest to all watchers to join a group or talk to friends / collegues about there daily generation as in winter it is a lot lower than summer and not to get dispondent and question the decision when you (my system) only generates 0.19kWh in a day.
There's always stuff to learn, who knew shading was so involved. Thanks for this follow up video.
Me neither, John! And you're very welcome! :-)
A quick question, if I may: you did some thermal imaging in one of your recent videos, and as you're pretty expert in photography, what equipment did you use? Was it a standalone unit, or combined with some of your existing camera equipment? And have you ever analysed your arrays with it? Many thanks!
@@GaryDoesSolar I purchased a Hti HT-A1 standalone camera. I'm not sure they are still available new as it's fairly old now.
I had not even thought of using it on my arrays until you covered it in this video, however I will be once we get some better weather.
Looks like a nice little unit! Yeah, will be good to see how your panels are looking under the (IR) spotlight! 🙂
Really a Great Informative videos for PV Fraternity.Thank you so much for your subject narration.I become a core Fan of you Mr Garry
Wow - that's high praise indeed - thank you! I'll keep the videos coming...
"The Tigo Optimizers would not work unless they were connected to the internet"
Thank you for that warning.
When talking to my contractor on what I would like for an installation, I specified "No cloud services whatsoever". They were like "We might have to hack some stuff".
Freaking wild. Cant even buy a brick. It has to be a spy brick.
Yeah, this is the world we seem to be living in now - everything is connected. I can hardly complain about it myself as a lot of my career is in the mobile industry where I developed the technology to do much of that. I get it though, that for many people, they prefer not to have devices around them connected - unless absolutely necessary :-/
Good information! Seems like no matter how much solar research you do or how many videos you watch on it, there's always more to learn.
Thanks, Justin - yeah, the more I dig, the more I find! Lol
Thanks for the two parts Gary, I was very pleased you covered the setup of having panels facing more than one direction. I plan on having panels in three directions to get the best output throughout the day. Think Microinverters will be my choice.
Will check out Mark's blog as he is across the ditch as we say in NZ.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, David. And I'm very happy to have provided you with extra information on the topic, to help you make an informed decision. Although my comments to date on microinverters are been in the context of shading, I'm actually quite a fan of where that technology is going - so much so that I'm going to make a dedicated video on microinverters :-) Good luck with your solar journey (would be great to hear how it goes) and it's great to have viewers who are quite literally on the other side of the planet from me! :-)
I wonder whether your position has altered at all after your recent video with Enphase? I suspect no as I suspect you didn’t learn much more than you already know, but, regardless of that, thank you for these very informative videos. My issue is a complex roof space that would probably end up with too many strings for an average inverter, so an Enphase type system might suit, but the jury is still out and these videos help a lot in the thought process.
No, the Enphase inverter hasn't changed my opinion, which was expressed in my original video: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
Yeah, microinverters could be a good solution for you - or a Tesla Powerwall 3 - see here: ruclips.net/video/sSpQSDSVQ9M/видео.htmlsi=w6r_lfv-y1-o5NjM
Another brilliant video Gary. Reassuring that the micro-inverters I'm having installed in January because of our panel installation is spread across two roofs on two buildings. Thanks as always for your in-depth research and clear explanations 👏
My pleasure Paul. It's quite a lot of work, researching everything, but comments like this make it all worthwhile! :-)
Super Information Gary!!!!! Thanks so much. You have made my choice much easier Garry. My 10 panel Qcell Solis sytem in Ireland is costing about 7700. I will also get 32 cent for the energy I export to the grid. My current unit rate I pay for energy is 44 cent. I watched your video on buy now or wait. I think in Ireland buy now is better :)
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Aisling - I'm very happy to have been able to help you in your solar journey! :-)
Great video Gary. I'm planning to move house next year and want to fill the roof of the new house as much as I possibly can with solar panels. You've given me good advise on what to look for when it comes to the installation. 👍
Thanks Craig - great to hear and all the best with your solar plans!
God bless you, Gary.
Hope the video was useful 🙏
Thank you! I have been struggling to decide between a string inverter and the micro inverters. My system is to be small and on the ground but I'd like it to be as trouble free and reliable as possible for as long as possible. Great info. Thank you very much for your efficient and understandable presentation.
Cheers Gary - thanks for the kind words and all the best with whatever you decide :-)
Thanks for the thoughtful info! I would just add that systems with micro-inverters where one fail with reduce your production by that panel only, a system with string inverter that fails stop all production until the inverter can be replaced. Perhaps 2 weeks to 1 month should be expected without production.
Agreed
Gary - great series of videos. I just moved to Octopus Energy and applied your referral code. So £50 should be on its way to you. Thanks for the very informative and useful videos.
Hi Stephen, I received an email yesterday from Octopus about your sign-up - thank you so much for this! Very much appreciated :-) Glad that you're liking my videos. More coming soon...
@@GaryDoesSolar and I got £50 credit it out it too - bargain! 🙂
The thing I don't like about the micro-inveters (I had enphase on a previous house) is that they are generally grid tied, so unless you have a more complex(and expensive) setup to isolate you from the grid automatically and then kick on another inverter feeding back voltage into the micro-inveters you will have several KW of panels that aren't providing you anything when the grid itself is down.
Hi Michael, this is a good point, and once I hadn't considered to date - thank you!
Thank you! The information you provided here is very valuable. I will recommend it to my solar friends in Latvia.
You're very welcome, Andris!
And thank you so much for recommending my video to your friends :-)
As some one new to solar systems and researching to the point of getting a headache, your videos have been very helpful without the need for aspirin.
That's really kind of you to say - I'm humbled, thank you :-)
Probably the best video on the topic.
Thank you 🙏
Micro-inverters are much safer!
Good afternoon and excellent presentation and follow-up.
Please let's not forget, if not the most critical aspect of a micro-inverter vs. a string, Safety, and Rapid module/panel level shutdown. I would not want 600 to 1500VDC that can not be shut off over the heads of my loved ones living under my roof with a string inverter. My Family's health and safety are worth a few dollars, which I have recuperated in the long lifespan and increased solar harvest of the NEP microinverter.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I think many people are slowly starting to see the benefits of microinverters, especially for the mass consumer market, where, statistically, there will be a growing number of incidents. I'd guess that we'd then see safety legislation (like rapid shutdown) that already exists in the US and other countries, being applied throughout the rest of the world.
Another very useful video. Have subscribed!
The MC Electrical reliability report is interesting, especially considering that the Enphase micro inverters have much more to do than the SolarEdge optimizers. From the report they seem to be able to handle the heat and dust in Australia, but what about the cold and wet of northern Europe? Hamburg in my case. Have you come across any reliability figures from installers closer to home?
Thanks Tim. Getting hold of reliability data is not easy, but I'm hoping to be interviewing Enphase soon...
Outstanding work, as always, Gary. Keep it up!
Thanks Tim - this particular video was really hard work - took me much longer than before for some reason. I need to become more efficient!!
Another great video Gary. Keep it coming. Learning more and more about solar.
Thank you! Already working on the next one... :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar What do you use for the animation?
Try not to laugh, but it's all Microsoft PowerPoint! 🙂
@@GaryDoesSolar wow, that's some impressive powerpoint skills. I might give it a go now that I can see what its capable of.
Thanks - yeah, it's actually quite powerful. The only problem is, I can't get it to generate 4K output
Great informative video. Thanks
Thanks Sam! :-)
Gary, A very informative series of video. Many thanks for sharing
My pleasure, Dan - thanks for taking the time to watch them! :-)
Gary. We are brothers in thought. I have 3 roof aspects to cover in a 5+5+3 configuration. After alot of searching I conclude that a 3 MPPT inverter is the simplest and most reliable way to go. Solis, SMA and Goodwe make 3 MPPT single phase inverters.
I just don't know which Mfr is best.
:-) and I agree, a 3 string inverter sounds ideal for you.
Worth asking about manufacturers on a local solar forum. Here is a link to a good UK one: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466
In the US NEC has required rapid shutdown systems which micro-inverters, or DC optimizers provide that functionality. The cost of buying a DC optimizer is only about $$10 more than a rapid shutdown module. That is something to consider most local city inspections will require that rapid shutdown switch. Ground mounted systems don't require the rapid shutdown switch only rooftop.
Thanks for this info - rapid shutdown is likely to become a concern in other parts of the world as well
I just installed 10 x 410w panels with Tigos, My wall panels perform now better. Old ones were 8x 370 w panels.
Great to hear! :-)
Super impressed with your solar video series. I'm in the process of deciding on my own solar set up and found your video on microinverters and optimisers very useful. I agree with your conclusion and will not be going that route. Can you recommend an installer who installs the Perlight Delta shingled panels you chose?
Thanks for the kind words, Paul - and I’m very happy to hear that my videos have been so helpful to you.
Now, most installers should be able to get hold of those panels are they’re quite popular. Just specify that you’re looking for those particular ones. Good luck!
Thank you so much for your informative videos, they helped me so much.
You're most welcome, Mike - thanks for the great feedback! I'll keep the videos coming :-)
Fantastic videos, great detail and well presented
Thank you, Peter - great to have feedback like this 😀👍🏻
Good clear presentation. Thanks very much
You're very welcome - thank you for the great feedback!
Hi Garry, what type of thermal imaging are you referring to if you say 'specific for solar panels' ? Thank you in advance for your reply and thumbs up for your super videos!
Cheers for the great feedback, Renout. The thermal imaging camera I have is this one: www.flir.co.uk/products/flir-one-pro/
thanks again GARRY octipus referal done My system is now up and running! Just waiting on 3rd 5.7kw battery
Thank you Mark - that's very kind of you and much appreciated! And great to hear you're already up and running. My installation tale is a sorry one, having started it nearly a year ago, but I'm looking at the end of February now (fingers crossed). My battery array size will be similar to yours - I think there are revenue opportunities for such capacity :-)
Thanks for the video Gary. I'm not sure I really understood the split panel mptt optimisation, a single panel is easy to follow, but surely with an array of panels if it used half the voltage that would decrease the overall output significantly? It must find an optimum point, but the diodes are either open of closed and I'm thinking that will always be closed so no advantage?
Hi Stephen, you're most welcome. Yeah, the way I like to think about MPPT, is that it appears an intelligent process but it's not. The MPPT controller in a string inverter simply adjusts the voltage from 0 upwards (a sweep) every minute or so, to see which voltage gives the highest current, and therefore the highest power. It doesn't know about bypass diodes or even optimisers, how they work or anything. The problem for the string inverter MPPT controller is that if there is shading only on one panel, it can't really do anything to optimise that because it will surely bring down the current on all the other panels, so in reality, it's only effective if all of the panels in that string have exactly the same kind of shading (say the lower half of each panel shaded by an adjacent building later in the afternoon). In my mind, these conditions are rare, really, what is the increased generation advantage? Interested in your thoughts on this...
@@GaryDoesSolar Definitely sounds rare in a string, but with an optimiser per panel it’s perhaps a further option when all 3 sections have shading on one half. I expect there are other benefits of the split panel, as this one sounds quite marginal. It would seem like smarter electronics in a panel could handle shading better than diodes, but perhaps it’s avoided due to generating heat.
I have panels going up tomorrow with a little shading from a chimney, I’ve gone against my installers advice and will try without optimisers and just position the panels away and accept some loss, my feeling is that shadow is only a factor when there is direct sun, and that’s less common anyway later in the year when shadows are longer. It’s an EW roof with a 40 degree tilt so the only months where the sun is high enough to reach the other side limit the shadow length. I wish I could do 3D trig to properly work it out, but alas beyond my maths ability.
@@smc812 Hope all goes well with the installation - and I reckon you'll be fine not having the optimisers given what you say. And there's still plenty of summer left for some nice generation 🙂
very informative and useful! Thanks!
You're most welcome, Tomek - thanks for the great feedback! :-)
Great information Gary; thanks.
My pleasure - thanks for watching! :-)
Thanks Gary
I can't get any panels for free but I was thinking about getting these for my parents. Half their roof faces north, and it suffers from shading via the chimney
I figured it'd still be worth putting them on a north facing roof if the panels are free, and get optimisers instead
For myself, I don't really get shading, so I don't bother with optimisers.
What country are you located in, Waqas? If the UK, then North-facing could be a real problem as it will hardly ever get direct sunlight (except in the Summer, depending on the pitch).
Thanks for the mice video! I decided to not to waste money on optimizers.
Hi Muhammed, you're very welcome - great to get feedback like this! And yeah, if you don't have any shading, or only hard shading in places, then optimisers are unlikely to add a lot of value.
Hello Gary - very interesting video - thanks!. One thing to consider with multiple peaks on the IV curve is that you might expect the newer inverters to perform global sweeps, but the real question is how effective these are. My Solax inverter has this function, but it's disabled by default! You can set it to do the GMPPT every 1/3/4 hours but if the shade is changing, I imagine that this would be far too infrequent. My guess is that the GMPPT function takes some time to perform, thereby limiting the ability to adjust frequently.
Am I right in thinking that the MPPT (now thinking of local version, which (according to Solax) sweeps from the right and finds the first peak), is basically adjusting the voltage as the independent variable, and the current is the dependent? in layman's terms, it's essentially swapping part of the current on the string for voltage. By adjusting the voltage upwards, the current is reduced, which means that the resistive effect of shade is less?
I ask, because sometimes I see on my string a high voltage when the conditions are poor, and then as the sun comes out, the current increases and voltage decreases. I can understand the current increase as a direct consequence of the sun coming out, but I guess the voltage drop is due to the MPPT (otherwise I believe the voltage would be fairly constant).
Hi Daniel, you're welcome on the video. Yeah, MPPT is a bit of a black art!
Global MPPT sweeps do take a little time and you're not generating while they're in progress so limiting the number per hour is a good thing. Trouble is, that you're not then getting the benefit of them!
Local MPPT usually can't the other peaks so it's really only Global MPPT that works :-/
Yeah, the only control factor that the inverters has is the voltage.
Would be good to have a view on how wiring panels in parallel rather than series on a multi orientation roof install would mitigate shading issues. The MC electrical blog suggests that optimisers are needed/useful for multi orientations but would wiring the string in parallel mitigate the need for them?
Hi Justin, I don't have any views on that myself for the moment (my video roadmap is quite busy) but perhaps others here can comment...
Thank you for sharing this. I’m considering adding bifacial solar to an arch at the stern of a sailboat as reflections from the sea and the boat might improve the overall wattage. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
Hi Frank - you're most welcome. Now, I'm not in a position to comment on this, as it's not an area of expertise, but perhaps others can... :-)
Great pair of videos. If you are choosing a panel because of its warranty, how will you know that one of say 20 - 30 panels has fallen to say 85% of rated output when it should be 90%, without optimisers.
In the 1st video you said the optimiser could cost as much as a panel. I would like to see a half decent $80 panel, because that is what the Tigos cost here in Australia, or Huawei at about $65-70. THe Huawei optimisers are warranted for 25 years I understand.
Hi double-x :-) thanks for taking the time to comment on my shading videos - very much appreciated! Now, you raise a good point. Without any kind of monitoring, how would you know? And without any panel-based MPPT (either via optimisers or microinverters) how would your system ensure that those panels which have deteriorated the worst, don't bring down production of the others? I mean, it all points to the argument of *having* optimisers/microinverters, but I worry about their reliability, which could end up costing you more than they're saving...
That said, I do think there is a case for microinverters as the key to mass adoption of solar - something I'm making a video on shortly...
With regard to pricing, your point is valid (wrt optimisers) - they're relatively inexpensive now - although I do believe you have to buy a separate monitoring unit for the array as well?
Could u plz make a video about connecting the Panels and string cables togather and then to inverter?
That's not really my thing, but there are many videos available on RUclips that cover that, for example: ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=wiring+solar+panels
Hi Gary, a very insightful video and indeed your entire series are a must watch for anyone considering PV install.
I am looking in to PV and I do have a three aspect array requirement East / West - Main House roof and South facing detached garage.
We do have shading and tree issues (more pronounced in the winter - lower sun angle) so I originally thought I would be installing a Solar Edge optimiser based system, complete with 400w mono black Half- Cell panels, but I must say I am now rethinking it after watching your video, perhaps changing to Shingled design panels?
I can't seem to find a three MPPT inverter in the Solar edge range, perhaps It is just not an option?
I also looked into the Perlight delta 400w Shingled panels, and they look very good, but perhaps the Hyundai 400w Shingled Panel, which has a 25 year product /25 year performance warranty, seems to trump the Perlight delta 15 year product / 25 year performance warranty?
Although the Perlight delta is a more efficient panel (21.3% for the Perlight Delta Vs 20.4% for the Hyundai) perhaps this swayed your choice?
Are these the only Shingled PV 400w panels available in the UK currently? I couldn't find anything else.
Thanks for the kind words, Ade. And great to hear that I've got you thinking about your installation options :-) Worth checking on sites like below for any shingled panels:
midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/perlight-monocrystalline-solar-panels
solarsuppliesuk.co.uk/product-category/solar-pv/solar-panels/
Hello Gary! I love your videos!
Quick question - for "triangular" shading situation (example terrace wall or half wall on roof), that would cover a triangle from left lower corner of panel towards the middle of the panel on the right side.
What would be the best solution? A shingled panel? Some different managment approach? Could you mix different panel variations due to shading issues, but considering all of the panels having the same specs? Sorry for the long question,thank you in advance! :)
Crikey - lots of questions! :-) So for triangular shading, you're likely tripping 2 of the 3 bypass diodes in a typical non-shingled panel. I can't answer easily for a shingled panel, but they're all laid out in different ways, but I suspect it's not going to be too different - you might only get a 3rd of the maximum output. I wouldn't recommend mixing panel specs on the same string as this can give additional issues.
Very useful! Currently researching what solution to get, and certainly, SolarEdge are very popular - but seeing the reliability review from MC Electrical gives me pause. That said, the review is a few years old now, and Mark admits in more recent comments that he hasn't gone back to the product to see if things have changed.
So, it's off to Trustpilot to see if there's some insights to be had there. MC Electrical seem to rate Fronius highly - but there aren't many reviews on TP to make a solid judgement. However, the reviews that do show up there, are largely negative.
SolarEdge don't do especially well either on TP, albeit they have more positive reviews than many of their competitors. If that's 'the best' I can get in terms of customer service though, then it's still enticing, even if I don't technically need the 'benefits' of optimisers, and could be risking additional failure points. It's all about whether I'll be looked after if those problems occur.
Still, lots more research to do!
Great to hear you're getting a lot from my videos! Yeah, it's quite a minefield choosing the right solar solution - good luck in your journey!
Good advice on two strings arrays!
Great to hear my videos are helping you out! :-)
with micro inverters, how do they synchronize phase? I understand that grid systems sync to the grid - but if you're off grid, what's going on? Great deal of easy to follow information! Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm not an expert in off-grid approaches, but I note that certain Enphase products are able to "grid form": enphase.com/download/iq8-grid
Thanks for the Video Gary. When you are saying "Inverter" are you talking about micro inverters only or string inverters as well? I have half cut panels with bypass diodes with an all in one MPPT string inverter.
You're most welcome. Yeah, it can get confusing between "inverter" and "microinverter". So, in my videos, if I just say "inverter" I'm always referring to a string inverter. Hope this helps!
Hi Garry great video but feel you have missed some other benefits of microinvertors.
You note in video if microinvertor shows issue you can not resolve it.
I had a failure and I used the ABB powerone microiinver to reboot and repair microinvertor.
You can update microinvertor softwar and change standards as standards evolve. Ours changed and microinver software covered change.
If say panel fails I don’t loose string and I actually know which panel failed. We have 20 panels so we loose 1/20 or 5%. Where as string could be effected and you don’t know which is effected panel.
Power from microinvertors is cooler as wash is just converting power at lower domestic voltage and ours is 230 volts + or - 10%.
So as you noted growing system is easy.
But other feature you missed is string connection to main inverter is high voltage hotter connection and a number of fires in Australia were identified as isolation solar switch arching.
As each panel has microinverter there is no main inverter to place so installation is quicker and placement of inverter is not an issue.
Main inverter run hot and have say 15 year like. As they day you loose all power or one phase. But as microinvertor is running cooler life is longer but as failure occur it will be a unit in many so solar is continued to be generated.
I learnt a bit about the improvement in solar cell shading features as our system in circa 2014.
So much in 1/2 cell and shingle is new to me as we are not in the market to replace.
Thanks for your comments, Malcolm. This is great insight!
Very informative Ive been recommended Perlight Delta 425W Total Black Mono panels. Are these the shingle panels that you refer to? The datasheet refers to a parallel configuration but does not give any details. My roof is subject to dappled shading from neighbours trees, which will only get worse as they continue to grow, so shading is a concern to me, and I have been considering whether or not to use optimisers. Fortunately, it is a flat first floor roof, and access is simple, I just climb out of a bedroom window. Any thoughts?
Hi Jeremy, great that you're getting something out of my video :-)
Yes, I have Perlight Delta 415W panels on my roof, which are shingled. I'm sure yours are too. Sorry to hear about the shading you have. As it is from trees (therefore diffuse), optimisers could help here, and having easier access will help in the unlikely event an optimiser fails. Be careful though if you're attempting to resolve issues yourself - your safety is paramount. All the best with whatever you decide.
Gary made one big assumption in his recommendations and that is the Solar Panels are mounted on a roof. While that is certainly true of most installations for the smaller number of low mounted panels a different set of calculations come in to play regarding optimisers. Firstly replacing a faulty unit is not an expensive or difficult operation when panels are mounted where there is easy access. Secondly ground mounted panels are more likely to suffer from shading. And thirdly something that Gary did not touch on is electrical safety, this much more important where there is easy access and optimisers improve this considerably by reducing the maximum open circuit voltage to just 1V. For these reasons on a ground or low mounted installation I think that optimisers are something that should be seriously considered by installers.
Agreed regarding access to microinverters and optimisers is easy for ground-mounted arrays, but my videos are really targeted for those looking at roof-based installations (the predominant use case). And in my videos, where I show an array, it is always on a tiled roof. Not many people are in a position to set up a ground-array solution.
On the electrical safety point, what you say is true, but not relevant to the topic of the videos which was shading.
All that said, and aside from shading, I really do like the concept of microinverters, and so my video after next will be all about the benefits of them, with a challenge out to the manufacturers, which could result in microinverters being the de facto standard for all domestic solutions.
Thanks, for the great job.
Cheers Norman - this is great feedback to receive! :-)
Great work!
Thank you! 🙏 😀
Hi, Gary, thanks for the 2 videos on optimisers advantages/disadvantages.
I am considering taking your advice and referral to go with Octopus, but I have a concern over the advantage of Octopus Go and the 4 hour overnight cheap rate. I have a solar system with 8 kWh battery storage and Solis 3.6 kW hybrid inverter. The normal protocol regarding the taking and usage of power for home use is solar, then battery then grid. So if I within the 4 hour rate charge my ev vehicle at my 7kW charger and have set the inverter to charge my batteries at the same time, what will happen? Will the car take the energy at 3.6 kW from the batteries first through the inverter and then take only the remaining kW from the cheap grid rate to make up the 7kW requirement of the charger? OR will it do this AND also charge the batteries as well, thus maintaining the state of charge of the batteries so that I still have sufficient energy to cheaply power the house until the solar kicks in later in the morning? If you have an ev, what do you do to maximise the use of the 4 hour cheap rate?
Hi Barrie, you're most welcome regarding the shading videos - thanks for the feedback! And it would be very kind of you to make use of my referral code and move to Octopus - it all helps with the costs of keeping my channel running :-)
Ok, onto overnight charging then. My understanding is this (based on what I've heard as I don't have an EV yet):
You can charge your EV and solar battery at the same time - there is a mode on the Solis that allows you to set a timed charge between 00:30 and 04:30 - so no issues there. And of course your grid supply will easily be able to charge both devices concurrently.
How about making a video about how to match one or two panel arrays with a string inverter eg match voltage, amps, string inputs etc?
By the way, is the string inverter limitation for voltage or amps per string or per string inverter as a total?
Out of curiosity, what are the chances for Octopus to expand to more European countries? I know they are in Spain and France.
It’s really down to the installer to get all that right. As a homeowner, all you need to worry about is how many and where you’d like the solar panels to be located. Your installer will then do all the calculations for the inverter size, string allocation etc.
What do you think of wind turbines based on the archemedies screw like the Liam F1 that I’m seeing videos for? Maybe you can do a video about whether there’s a place for turbines in our homes too.
Now, domestic wind generation is certainly an option that many are starting to look at, to compliment solar. But (unfortunately) there are a number of factors that limit it’s viability in consumer applications:
Wind turbines are not quiet - worse, the noise varies with the wind strength, could drive any neighbours close by insane.
They are also nothing like solar panels in terms of reliability - you might find you’re spending a fair amount of time, money and effort keeping them going.
And they’re expensive. Like really expensive for one that generates even just a few kW.
Also watch out for the advertising. Some retailers talk in terms of kW (power) when they’re actually taking about kWh (energy) - even a cheap 30cm diameter turbine will generate 20kWh given enough time!
Not yet available, but Vortex looks promising. No blades, no noise.
I'm having an issue, I have 8x 460w JA Solar panels connected in series to a Deye 5kva inverter, the problem I am facing is in the morning from 8am to 10am 2 of the panels are shaded, but the other 6 have full sun but I get no production showing on the inverter 100w to be exact , only after 10am when then all unshaved then it spikes up to 1800w instantly , is this correct behavior?
Hi Paul, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466).
However, I'm happy to provide my own views on specific scenarios, which would not constitute as advice) to members messaging me on my Patreon channel, which you can find here: www.patreon.com/GaryDoesSolar
Good luck!
Thanks for the shingled tips!
Carry on the good work !
Can you please investigate the UK installation market : I am been offered for a 4 panels setup a 6000£ (2000£ of parts)… while my setup (on top my garage) does not require any scaffolding!
Find another supplier
Does seem expensive, how many quotes do you have?
My pleasure - it seems like shingled panels are most definitely the future - not least, because you can make different panel designs with them. Tesla are taking this approach for their solar roof tiles, for example. Check out the Facebook group I mentioned in my latest video - its a great forum to ask questions about quotes etc. Good luck with everything!
Hi Nicolas, one of the quotes I recieved when I was looking 2 months ago for a 12x 365w panel array coupled to a 3.6kW inverter was £5791.60 fully fitted. For the same install but with 5kWh battery and hybrid inverter the cost changed to £9225.60 fully fitted. Labour charge was £1550 / £1750 respectively. I hope this info helps.
@@adrianlynch9435thanks a lot. Indeed these seems more in line with what I thought!
My intended solar panel array is to be on my new build in a green field site, no trees, no shading ! Can I have a string solar array, no micro inverters or optimizers ?
I would not want to give you specific advise on the matter. Certainly, the three main reasons why someone would get optimises are:
- you’re installing a SolarEdge inverter, and so optimisers are mandatory
- you have shading
- you want to monitor the performance of each of your panels rather than just the array as a whole.
I’m the process of purchasing solar I have a chimney from a wood burner on a south facing roof. The positioning of the chimney means the shading only occurs late afternoon so I am wondering if optimisers are now worth the cost and long term issues if they fail welcome your opinion
Unfortunately, l'm not in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues, even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer for such advice, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466). Good luck!
Hi Gary there is one area the needs talking about is the legal right of solar panels to light I have personal experience with this my own solar array which have had for over 10 years now has been working fine up to now, our neighbour has now erected an extension on their roof which create a major overshadowing we opposed on the grounds of of overshadowing but as the development is under permitted development wrights, I have sought solicitor advise and a barrister ,the barrister's opinion was that we had little chance of success ,the council where no help at all we're not interested and so the development is going ahead, there seems to be very little we can do so we'll just have to put up with the loss. I would love your I comments ,Tim Farley
Hi Timothy, sorry to hear that you're having to deal with such an issue. Here are some links that might be useful to you:
dysonenergyservices.co.uk/what-is-your-right-to-light-for-solar-panels/
www.harrison-drury.com/business-law/commercial-property/can-i-protect-the-access-to-sunlight-to-my-solar-panels/
www.cms-lawnow.com/ealerts/2021/11/hot-property-solar-panels-and-rights-of-light?cc_lang=en
Definitely worth involving legal expertise, but make sure they're armed with the above as this issue is a relatively new one. Good luck!
Where did you figure that 20 % of the panel has to be shaded to trigger the bypass?
From a SolarEdge article:
"The exact point at which the PV cell becomes a power consumer instead of producer changes between different types of cells and diodes, but usually a difference of 20% between the light hitting the surfaces of different cells in a substring is enough to activate the bypass diode of the substring."
www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_technical_bypass_diode_effect_in_shading.pdf
@@GaryDoesSolar so even if 1 PV cell has a difference of more than 20% from everything else it's owning diode will activate?
@@nodelayfordays8083 Yeah, and in my videos, this is why a single leaf covering a cell can cause bypass diodes to activate. Shading is a real issue for solar panels....
Hi Gary - Great video
I have a small array of 10x REC260PE Panels and decided that as they don’t all receive direct sunlight during the day, I would install some Solar Edge P320-5NC4ARS 320W Power Optimizers.
The install ran into the evening and finished after sundown. This morning the system was not powering up - on investigation I find that none of the panels (Optimizers removed) are producing any volts - I’d appreciate your thoughts - Regards
Hi there, unfortunately, l'm not really in a position to provide individual advice, (not least because of potential liability issues - even if that advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466) Good luck!
Hi Garry
Just a quick question. Do you have any update on the Tigo optimiser problems outlined by Mark in his blog post?. I have just recieved the design for my system from the installer and they want to use Tigo to handle the East /West split. Im just wondering if we will need the monitering system to make them work.
Simon
Hi Simon, I have been in touch with Mark but no updates as yet, sorry. Good luck with your solar installation!
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Garry. Thanks for the quick reply. I have decided to get the monitoring system as the price is relitively small compared to the whole system, And if you have these things you might as well know what is going on up there!!
What solar manufacturer makes a good shingled type of panel, the one that outperformed the half cell in full cell panels?
I have Perlight Delta 415W panels, which I believe out performs full cell and is at least as good as half-cell: www.perlight.com/perlight-delta-400w.html
Hello Sir,
If the current is reduced to 5 A for one PV and you have several PV's in series, all the string will run at 5 A, meaning that the power is reduced also like in the case of FC when the bypass diod is not on ( reduced irradiationce on the cell). My question is in the example that you showed at minute 4 to 6 would not be better to have that diod active so we will have 10 A and 20 W? (meaning the string runs at 10 A and the rest of the panel in the string have 300 W instead of 150W when the current is reduced to 5A)
Thank you!
I'm not sure I understood your question correctly, but if you're talking about the scenario at 6:10, then this scenario is for only one panel in the string, therefore the MPPT of the inverter is best to reduce the current to 5 amps to get the highest power output. If there were several panels in the string and only this particular panel had shading, the MPPT inverter (which acts on the string as a whole) would automatically see that pushing 10 amps through the string will provide the highest output, as you suggest. Hope this explains :-)
Hi and thanks for this.
In part 1, shading 2 substrings reduced the panel's output to 100W. The 3 panels together than have an output of 700W. This 300W half cell example shows similar shading reduces output to 150W by the inverter reducing the current to 5A. But this affects all panels on the string doesn't it? So we'll have 150W from the partially shaded panel and two more running at 5A each, so 150W each. 450W total. Now I'm also lost as to why a partially shaded panel has the same output as an unshaded panel.
Doesn't that make a half cell panel string worse than full cell under partial shade? Please point out where I've gone wrong! :)
Ok, I see where you're coming from - this is where optimisers and micro inverters come in, in fact. A perfect scenario for them to be useful! Aside from that, if it's the case that all the panels suffer the same kind of shading, which means the string inverter can reduce the current and all the panels will benefit.
Unless there’s shading on the panels optimisers are really not worth it.
It would be a reallly bad investment from the money perspective. They only increase output in single percentage digit, while costing almost as much as an extra panel. Most of the time the array is better off with an extra panel rather than a bunch of optimisers
Yeah, whilst there could well be a benefit of using optimisers to counteract shading, I came to the view that there is little (and largely unknown) differential in the level of benefit compared to the cost of achieving it. Given that, people might get a greater return on that money spent elsewhere...
Just thinking about optimisers / micro-inverters - if the installer brought the panel cabling into the loft and connect ed these devices in the loft then that would make these far easier to swap out if one had an issue.
That's potentially a lot of holes in your roof underlay (breathable membrane, bitumen felt etc) though I have seen it done that way on at least one RUclips video I saw (can't recall which one though)
@@tonymatthews1053 My installer was resistant to the idea.
I've heard that others have done this too. It's a good idea, but there are the potential issues that Tony raised - tricky decision!
Hi great video, please I have a question : my grid tie solar installation is with Huawei SUN2000-5KTL-L1
Which only use high (400v) voltage batteries but I will like to use 48v lithium battery with it, so please how can I make this combination work? Thanks in advance
Thanks for the kind words. Now unfortunately, l'm not in a position to provide advice on specific situations, not least because of potential liability issues - even if advice is given free - such is the world today). You're best to speak to an installer about that, or post a comment onto a solar forum (e.g. this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466)
Good luck!
@@GaryDoesSolar thanks for the fast reply
In winter ie Now what should we expect from an 8.8 kw system My highest Kw generation figure was about 35 mins at 3kw about 12.45 10kwh for full day. not as much as expected to be fair.
I had a 6.12kW virtually south facing system installed last Thursday . Friday I had 15kWh generated with a peak of 3.3kW. Since then I have had virtually no generation at all as Lincolnshire has been very cloudy / overcast and damp.
Hi Mark, worth using the tool I described at 5m56s in this video: ruclips.net/video/ccm1HmxELlQ/видео.html - it'll tell you with a fair degree of accuracy...
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, I agree with you about the pv calc but this doesn't give the user an idea of day to day generation (unless I am missing something) for an installation especially when it is new and you don't have any practical data to go off. It certainly has suprised me how little is generated on a winters day when overcast. In some ways this is the best time to start as you get the worst case from the off so you then get used to the low results and then come early spring it will be a welcome suprise to see the output change. I found it useful to compare with work collegues as initially it appears that the system has a problem with virtually no generation these last few days when it is all new to me.
The have three roofs facing east, south and west, as many inverters only have the capability of connecting two strings I believe optimisers or micro inverters are my only option.
It is possible I could place all the panels on the west on one string with optimisers or micro inverters but for the panels facing east and south it seems my only option is optimisers or micro inverters?
Yeah, in the case you outline, I reckon microinverters could be a good solution.
See my earlier comment on inverters with x3 MPPT's
Hi Gary, thank you for the great video, and presenting this important topic in such a clear way.
Edit: I subsequently realised my Q2 was previously asked by @Robert Sporne and answered thanks.
I had a couple of questions/comments and would appreciate your and others comments. Please bear with me as I am not a solar installer
1) Would it be correct that split cell performance in shade will vary from portrait to landscape orientation based on the shape and position of partial shading?
2) Loosely paraphrasing from your video, modern MPPTs deal with partial shading on a split cell panel by detecting a second MPP which prevents the bypass from "kicking in". However, would this occur for string of split cell panels, if only one panel is partially shaded? If the global sweep select the higher amperage as the MPP, would this mean the bypass diodes for the shaded panel then "kick in"? If so, this suggests local panel mppt is required.
3) What is the threshold of current at which these diodes "kick in". Does the current split at the diode string junction. E.g. one partially shaded cell causes current to drop, but also diode current to increase hence string current is unchanged?
4) I have seen advice (maybe from MC Electrical?) that diode failure may not be covered by panel warranty, hence it is good to avoid relying on diodes for shade management. Generally I have taken this as a case for optimisers for frequent partially shaded locations.
Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I'll try to answer your remaining questions:
1) Yes
3) My understanding is a 20% difference in current
4) If I've noticed anything about solar equipment warranties, they're full of gotchas! As such, they're not really worth much unfortunately - failed diodes or otherwise :-/ MC Electrical notes on one of their blog posts that diode failures are incredibly rare
Hi having the enphase micro inverters this added £3,600 to my quote ,do companies offer this as an easier installation option, also is there any solar grants ,or any help towards such renewable energy, as we all could do with a little help with the cost 🤔 ,as always great info
I recently had my system installed and the only help is zero VAT, which to be fair is a significant saving.
@@JetmanUK yeah that’s a fair point ,
It's crazy, the pricing that's going around at the moment. I hope you're able to get the deal you're looking for. Yeah, the VAT saving isn't as good as some countries, but it all helps...
It seems that Companies prefers to supply micro inverters/Optimizers so then can charge a % on top of each item witch at the end would be more than fitting 1 string inverter + the fitting time.
2% fail wow. I worked for a large telecom manufacturer and when we ended up with a 3rd party dc/dc converter increasing failure rate by 0.05% it was drains up time.
Yup
Hi Garry, another great and informative video. You mentioned the potential problems of matching a replacement panel in the future if one were to fail (which could well be within warrantee period therefore manufacture’s / installers issue for the replacement?). However another consideration especially for the main inverter or battery system is obsolescence where the warrantee period is a lot less and with technology moving along quickly replacement parts may not be available. If this happens in just a few years time and an expensive replacement unit must then be fitted? Your thoughts? Thanks again :-)
Hi Robert - thank you. This latest video was really hard work! The most difficult to date in fact.
Yeah, it's a real problem with parts no longer being available. All we can hope for is that prices come down over time, so that consumers have the choice of buying new (superior) parts, or having market outlets selling (cheaper) second-hand parts - just like other markets today (e.g. automotive, computer)...
If you use micro inverters that changes it to ac, how do you connect it to you inverter in the house if it is designed to run on DC? I know, beginners question.
No problem - all questions are welcome on this channel 👍🏻
In fact, once the microinverters have converted the DC to AC, there’s no need for an inverter at all. That AC is fed directly into the consumer unit of the house. This makes for a relatively straight-forward install.
@@GaryDoesSolar and what if you wanted a backup battery/off grid? Just stick to the optimizers and string inverter?
I guess you could still use micro inverters so long as your battery/backup component is AC-coupled.
Perhaps optimisers/microinverters were more useful when panels were less sophisticated than they now are.
You've totally hit the nail on the head there. So much research and development has gone into modern panels such as half cell technology, Top-Con, bypass diodes etc, all to increase longevity and production in shade. There are still a few small use cases for optimisers and microinverters but many consumers are being grossly misled by installers saying they'll lose the output of the whole system if an edge of a single panel is in shade. They pay more for no real return
@@chriscodes1 Agreed, unless their hobby is panel efficiency watching😊😊
Good point, David. And actually, just like any business today needs to adapt with the changing times, I expect the engineers within the companies that make optimisers and microinverters to wake up every day, thinking "what we have now is not good enough" then going on to design something revolutionary... I can dream...
@@GaryDoesSolar Let's hope so and thanks once again for such an instructive video.
@@GaryDoesSolar Over the life of the array, a 25-year warrantied microinverter system will be cheaper and more robust. You will lose 100% of the array when the string inverter fails or a panel goes down for whatever reason. Simply not so with microinverters.
FEMA in the USA recommends microinverters over string for this very reason. Weather events are famous for provoking failures. With microinverters, the failure is limited to the panels involved rather than the system as a hole.
I would rely on FEMA data over the local 3000-unit data set you quoted in this video.
FEMA data comes from actual disaster events throughout the USA and territories.
Enphase next generation microinverter will feature GaN, will address the newer 500-watt module output, and have a practical life of 40-50 years. Look for it Gary, Enphase is the power electronic innovation leader in the space:) As far as initial cost goes, no price increases are on the horizon, and with the IRA now law, the price per watt will see declines.
Yes, clearly I am an Enphase fan:)
Do love the content, not trying to through stones in your pond:)
Once again, you have got it wrong. If one sub string is shaded, then 5 amps will pass through the opposite sub string, and 5 amps will pass through the bypass diode, to ensure that the full 10 amps still flows through the string.
Once again? Where did I get it wrong before then? And tell me exactly *where* in this video I got it wrong, Sooty Grandad…
Ok, I have since seen your original comment (and have responded to that). I don’t mind criticism of my content, but being so forthright, I’m expecting you to provide strong evidence to support.
In this video, regarding the half cell panel, at 3:40, you state that if one half cell string is shaded (the bottom one in your vid), then the bypass diode will kick in, and the top half cell string is also lost. This is not the case, as the top half cell string will still deliver it's power. Bypass diodes don't just kick in-as you put it. They will start to bypass current at as little as a 1mA drop in current from that single string in a panel. With the half cell panels, when you shade the bottom half cell string, the top half cell string opposite to that of the shaded string still applies a reverse bias voltage across the bypass diode, and so 5 amps of current will run through that unshaded half cell string, and the other 5 amps of current will run through the bypass diode. If we partly shade one string in a panel, and there is 10 amps flowing through the string of panels, then 5 amps may flow through that partly shaded string in the panel, and the other 5 amps may pass through the bypass diode in that panel string. The partly shaded string in that panels doesn't simply stop passing current when the bypass diode starts to conduct. Hope this helps.
@@Sooty_Grandad Please take a look at this video (from 1m28s in) which aligns with what I state in my video. Are you still suggesting I'm wrong? ruclips.net/video/AZ8VQ_zmf1M/видео.html
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes, that video is incorrect. When the bottom half of the half cell string is shaded, you do not also lose the power output from the unshaded half of the half cell string. This was one of the reasons they designed these half cell panels like this. When the bottom half of the half cell string is shaded, you only lose 16.5% of the panels output, not 33%. Here is a video that explains how they work correctly. ruclips.net/video/otovXbs_qZs/видео.html
Diodes have a limited number of cycles on-off. Their meaning is not to handle shade every day. Their mission is to protect the panel. So If they are triggered daily you lose the panel !
Consider solar arrays on roofs in built up areas (i.e. most home installations). As the sun sets and rises, you could expect shading from other buildings on panels, which in turn would activate bypass diodes. This would happen day in, day out on sunny days, so how would you explain the non-occurrence of millions of panels failing after a few years?
It is 100% shaded every night, so they are going to be cycled every day I would think.
I just wanted to say thanks for your videos. It really helped me talking to the sales person. At least it made me feel I had a level of knowledge that I could ask the right questions. My 14 panels, and 2x 3.2 batteries and 3.6 Lux Hydrid inverter were installed last Wednesday. I can’t stop looking at the monitoring 😊. After you last videos, I checked and we have half cell panels. We have had a few hours of free power. This impressed me for winter. Thanks again. I will still continue to watch.
Thanks for the very kind words, Michael. And also, I really appreciate your “super thanks” - it’s a lot of work to make my videos and so this means a great deal to me 😀👍🏻 Sounds like everything went well with your installation and it’s performing well in the winter, so this sets the scene for even better performance over the next 6 months - all the best!
Genuinely helpful Gary, thank you.
You're very welcome, Jim - thanks for letting me know :-)
I enjoyed both Part-1 and Part-2 Gary ... keep up the good work
Thanks - I'll keep the videos coming :-)
I think I’d like to skip optimizers and microinverters, but I DO want a way to monitor performance on each panel. Does anyone manufacture a cheap per panel measurement hardware/software solution so I can see my array on my smartphone or internet connected laptop?
Hi Tom, I think the only way you'll get that is via optimisers or microinverters, I'm afraid...
@@GaryDoesSolar thx
Thank you for a great and easy to understand content!
I think you need to add some economical aspects:
- optimizer cost about 55 EUR/per panel (without cost of labor)
- they consume energy as well and it is about 2%, so this can put away the benefits
- to be able to monitor individual panels, as mention their benefit, you need additional management box which cost you additional 250 EUR
I think microinverters are better solution for smaller installations (do optimizer job and convert DC to AC and can be monitored individually without any additional HW) because you are very flexible (different orientation, no need to use "solar cables" for DC, just regular ones for AC) no need of central big inverter which cost from 1000 EUR and more. But at some point, if think only economically, they makes no sense because of the price, e.g. 10x 550 W panel needs 10 microinverters * 220 EUR = 2200 EUR instead of lets say 1500 EUR per central inverter.
Thanks for the extra insight.
Now these videos were focussed on shading, but I plan on making a video on optimisers shortly, just to complete the picture on the dedicated microinverters video I made here: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
Hi Gary. Excellent video. I don’t get if I had panels on west and east on same string then given panel’s built in bypass diodes then it should handle the shade (or less sunlight) on west panels in the morning while full generation on east and vice versa in the afternoon. I say I don’t get it because you mention in the video that optimzers are needed if panels on same string face different directions
Thanks for the great feedback! Now, the problem comes from the fact that ALL the panels on your West roof will not be generating much in the morning , whereas ALL the panels on your East roof will be generating a lot (assuming a sunny day). The bypass diodes won't be able to handle that mismatch very well. You're far better putting each orientation on its own string as opposed to adding optimisers. Optimisers (and microinverters) work best when there is partial shading within a single orientation.
@@GaryDoesSolar thanks for your reply. I was confused about your video which illustrated it as a bent hose with the current being pulled down by the panels on different orientation - is that indeed true as it would seem to be contrary in my mind with your other examples that indicate if panell(s) are fully shaded and are on the same string, it would not effect power output from other panels; therefore I was assuming in a situation with panels on different orientation but same string could be modelled as simply panels with a lot of shade on them when sun is on the opposite side; does that make sense or am i missing something fundamental in my understanding ?
@@warperone The problem here is that the panels on the East and West roofs are never shaded as such - they're just not seeing direct sun at different times of the day. There is still a lot of ambient light around, and bypass diodes are designed only to manage partial shade.
Impressive video and grafics,⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thanks Jonas :-) :-) :-) I'll keep the videos coming!
Super presentation love the voice tone + explanations !!! BRAVO
Hi Alex - that's so great to hear! Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'll keep the videos coming (next one is uploading right now...) :-)