Marblr confirmed my suspicions about Deadeye in Overwatch 2
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2023
- @Marblr's amazing analysis of Cassidy's Deadeye: • Deadeye Can Miss (a lo...
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you'd think such a straight up ability like lock on and shoot wouldnt be THAT complicated
programmers are lazy (or "efficient", if you will). they will opt to use convenient shotcuts, such as hardpoints for lock on, instead of going through the trouble of writing code that locks on to any part of the hitbox. Not an excuse, just an explaination. They should have done better here.
I can’t say why they did it this way but as a software engineer myself I can say that MOST features would be simple and clean if it could be handled exclusively by one small set of programmers. Unfortunately features are not perfectly self-contained and this baggage or dependence on other features/other teams begins to grow and grow and grow as time goes on. Unless there’s not only resources spent but TIME as well to do massive feature overhauls then inevitably games or products of all kinds tend to become an mess and incredibly difficult to tweak in certain ways….still this is so bad hahah idk how they let this happen 😂😂😂 probably a midly reasonable excuse somewhere tho
@NniemandweiterR Code that locks on any part of the hitbox would be near impossible. The amount of rays you would have to cast would make your computer fry itself the moment you hit Q
@@NniemandweiterR yes but this is a terrible way to code the ability. The proper way to code this ability to place a damage over time debuff on entire team and then put a LOS check(Similar to Old Roadhog hook) that ticks damage number of damage over time(DoT) the longer the target is LOS. When player releases the Q button, the damage is applied to all targets in Cassidy line of sight. What in the world is this hard-point stuff for such a basic ability.
I'm surprised they made it an actual bullet that travels. Why not just make the bullet purely visual and just kill them if the game says they're able to be shot
marblr came out of nowhere but he is really someone we NEEDED.
Dude has been making these videos before OW2 released, nobody was playing the game anymore
He was bound to great success. His videos are just perfect
@@Guarrow actually 🤓 his most popular videos are from before ow2 released and he did start the overwatch videos kinda recently and they were already popular from the first video
I think an easy fix to high noon is when you activate it, it just downloads one of those hacking programs that never seems to miss...
he's the Shounic of overwatch (both of them are pogger, chad, sigma even)
@@Labadamier you can't download a gaming chair, that's ridiculous
I do not know what to comment, nerf Genji
Valid tbh
fr
buff Mei
@@HogEnjoyer no
facts
New nerf: when Cassidy uses high noon, the game will check your device for the time, the farther it is from 12:00pm, the less accurate high noon becomes
Compensation buff: mag nade is now a lock on missile
It already is tho
@@cWoo-wv1xk with infinite range and one taps all 200hp enemies
This sounds fair and balanced
@@MothFable im something of an activision developer myself
Isn't his name Jesse Mcree?
Chat has to apologise for all the times they said he missed, because here's the proof that he didn't miss because of bad aim, but because of bad code.
NGL but this explains so much, i thought you had to see their outlines/hitboxes in order to lock on, and then have direct line of sight to shoot a character. This clearly is not the case and causes so much more confusion to such a basic and awful ult.
u cant miss deadeye due to bad aim, this was no surprise. its not ur own fault if u miss something that auto aims itself.
when he used deadeye at winston he shot the pole thingy
@@milku4558 it was because of the hard point of winston he did not choose to shoot there.
How can he have bad aim with deadeye?
4:05 marblr was testing these in custom games, the target in that scenario was set to be invincible, so he can test deadeye as often as he wants
Seems like the fix would entail a complete rewriting of all of the code surrounding deadeye. For example, LOS and hit checks for any part of the hitbox, not some weird jumpy hardpoints that are often outsdie the hitbox, not updated corrently and also depend on your internet connection.
And yes, I think this needs to happen. or replace it with another ult entirely.
the real way to fix it is to completely get rid of it and replace it with something other than a quick reload
I believe the comments of the actual video talked about soldier’s ult not having this problem, so maybe they could basically just copy and paste and adjust how it works a bit
if they replace deadeye the community will riot, thats one of the most iconic ults even if it's kinda bad
Honestly? It doesn't even seem that hard to fix based on the information given in the video. Just make the bullet go to the hardpoint which you have LOS on. If you can see their kneecaps, shoot their kneecaps. Otherwise, the mercy no-regs can be fixed by just favoring the shooter. It seems the problem is that it re-checks where the hardpoints are when you shoot but the bullet is not adjusted, so sometimes the bullet goes wide. If the damage just goes by where they were, then there will be no issue.
it seems like it can track where to put the skull accurately? Why not just put LOS and bullet there?
Guys, crazy idea here to maybe fix most of the inconsistencies with deadeye. What if we just made the LOS and bullet travel location the HEAD where the INDICAOTR IS???? Idk just a thought
@@sphrcl. which is not any more broken than what it is now. As a mccree main, I’d rather that than how bad it is now
It should aim where ever is sees the player that way he is constantly changing aim to be more like a cow boy
Send it to los point that your looking at not just los 1
@@Av-te7ze cassidy
@@boinggerss1560 as a programmer this solution would be just hell to implement, Hi Liketogame's idea seems more feasible ("Send it to los point that your looking at not just los 1")
Like someone said: this was literally never an issue for me in OW1 but now my deadeyes misses near every damn time.
I've actually experienced this pretty frequently in OW1. It just wasn't quite as much of an issue as often because teams were less mobile/more anchored and there were usually more targets, alongside simply adapting to its weirdness when the enemy was more divey.
just say "before OW2"
Just sounds weird "back in OW1" xD
@@Broockle This is Overwatch 2 - the second game. Therefore the game "before OW2" IS "OW1". People say "Halo 1", not "Halo Combat Evolved" or "Before Halo 2 game." OW1 is also more concise whereas "before OW2" could mean anything before OW2 as it is right now. Yeah no he said it correctly the first time you're just old dude.
@@sexypanda1349
hmm dun think we'll agree on this.
I would of course argue that halo 1 and 2 are actually 2 very different games.
All new graphics, engine improvements, completely revamped weapon balance and pretty much not a single asset is the same.
Where as OW and OW2 are the same game except OW2 just has over 2 years of updates on it all at once while OW stagnated that whole time.
That's my case, take it or leave it. Not gonna argue about this.
@@Broockle No OW2 is a updated engine as I understand it
jumping into an earthshatter to avoid dying to dead eye is maybe the ultimate tech in OW2 and I'm going to spend all day practicing it
Since Deadeye is shit, I've began using it as a fear-inducing weapon. Earlier today I played a game of Midtown where, on overtime, 3 of the people pushing the cart that was under the bridge fled from my Deadeye and let the timer for the overtime run out. I must say, it was very funny lol
Same I was on colosseo, I popped ult and the whole team hid and it was funny how they quickly moved and just standing still waiting for it to run out, the whole hall was clear
It's called a "zoning ult."
Edit: people have been doing that for a long time. Because it is ultimately all it ever ends up being good for. Well, except AGAINST ME. Then McCassidy hits every damn shot against my team and I.
@@firghteningtruth7173 if he ain't hitting his shots, the goddamn homing missile he carries in his belt will do the job for him lol
I see many high rank Cassidys use Deadeye as a second reload.
@@i_i_hope_i_i right, but his ult is kind of...done and done, just get out the way. I mean it still works as such.
But everyone hears, "It's hiiigh noon," and no one wants to contest aimbot. Even tho it IS quite broken in some regards. If you are out in the open, ur f-d.
Not necessariky so much with bastions ult.
8:25 I had that happen with sojourn sliding. Literally game losing bug cause we were down 1 and I would've killed 2 (sojourn and brig) instead brig gets rezzed and sojourn just slides and ignores my dead eye, I get speared by the orisa and die, then we lose the round and game. Safe to say that was my last game that day
Sojourn already has a weird body hitbox when standing still, even worse when she slides.
Meanwhile her gun remains in the same hardpoint, often giving the incorrect impression that she is aiming at you.
So that part where he tries to shoot Pharah and the server rejects it is the same animation I've been finding when I stand in certain places on the training ground as Mercy and GA to certain highground targets. Now I'm thinking that OW2 just has a larger LOS problem in that the clients and servers don't agree about what it is.
I've had this same issue in some of my games where I ga to a target but for whatever reason the game auto cancels it for me. At first I thought it was because it locked onto another target for a split second, but now I think it might be an LoS and sever/client issue.
Hitscan character has a projectile ultimate. The reverse sojourn 😂
Considering how inconsistent the deadeye oneshot is yea literally
@@boiofbois4232 inconsistent? Look at the earth shatter clip, it is a projectile.
Pretty sure it's still hitscan.
its not a projectile, this just the effect
Do you know what either of those terms mean? The ult IS hitscan.
Damn! the dedication for the research on debunking one single ability is just too damn much. That was a really good analysis and is really interesting. One simple Ult ability that you never thought is so broken in so many ways. wtf
I definitely wanna see more of this OVERWATCH Testers myth busters investigators whatever you call it but this just proves they either gotta mega buff Cassidy's ULT or give him a new ultimate entirely lol 😂😂
check out marblrs channel, it’s full of goodies like this one
nothing to buff they just need to fix it
@@majinflo2438 which is a buff
@@trillster8855 so when its fixed and its too good you will revert the "buff" by making the ult fundamentely broken again?
@@majinflo2438 the ult isn’t good even if it does work
So basically if you want to play McCassidy do it if you have good pin or internet connection otherwise just use Deadeye as the most dramatic and glorified reload animation at this point they should rework it to just shoot confetti and adding the Wii sports "MISS" sound effect and people will still prefer that to current high noon
Winton
I wanna be winton
Wait winton?
Yeah i totally agree
Saw this stream live, saw the video on release, id like to see it for a 3rd time
See it in your dreams
we need more marblr reactions, i love seeing flats find this stuff out
4:04 They probably increased her health/resistance for testing purposes.
I think the solution is to always crouch. Take 2 minutes to crawl around the back of the map. And then have your dreams obliterated before your very eyes. That's what I see most Cassidy players do anyway
At this rate cass will now need to wear glasses when he deadeye
Deadeye is broken - yet it still always seems to get me...😪
I've survived it unfairly a couple times, always feel bad for em
Same with my ex 😅
the second 0:12 and third 0:18 deadeye shots hit the lantern poles, on the 0:18 one you can clearly see the impact splash on the lantern
Which is pretty ignorant lmao
Worst ult in the game by far
You do know that on the first one deadeye was literally only shot to the rein shielding, no shot went to the soldier or the other guy
@@diogoferreira7427 hm yeah the lantern actually broke line of sight there, no shot fired. good eye
@@Bioshyn thank you, the shot missing on the guy on the right (not the rein) has no excuse tho, he had line of sight, but as marblr said it was only the upper line of sight
If you look at the shot missed on the Winston, it only missed because of what is later explained in the video. Deadeye doesn't favor the shooter in OW2, so even though he obviously pressed the trigger while the Winston was still marked and very visible (the deadeye marker disappears the moment you press the trigger), it updated AFTER the shot finally goes through and shot the lampost instead because it updated to Winston's hardpoints' new position (behind the lampost). Is it fair that HN doesn't favor the shooter to prevent dying behind a wall just as you got behind it? No, not really considering it's an ULT and every other ULT favors the shooter (including Visor). Even Widow and Hanzo favor the shooter despite the one tap potential, and that's not even an ULT.
Effectively, 0:18 was the Mei example but in a real game. In other words, that Deadeye should've killed bc the trigger was pulled while he was still out in the open, not "updated" to *not* favor the shooter.
OH, and one more thing! Not only did the ULT miss because it updated after it was shot, but if you look again at the beginning of 0:18 at 0.25, the Winston was visible for a solid amount of time before the ULT locked on again. It took the ULT a HUMONGOUS amount of time to re-lock on too, meaning that Flats only had the lampost incident happen because HN's lock on doesn't function properly to begin with. For example, Visor right there would've allowed you to lock on from the moment Winston shows up on the screen (despite breaking los mid jump to the right)! This is a very noticeable amount of delay from an ULT meant to lock on lol, and there's nothing Flats could do about it. The ULT needs a revision to its coding tbh, especially when Visor functions similarly, but without any of the issues.
Deadeye is clearly being handled server-side, whereas most shooting is handled client-side (hence the favor the shooter behavior). You see the lock-on, then when you pull the trigger the server checks to see if the shots are valid
This explains everything I was always wondering how an enemy team can eliminate me from behind the wall. But this wasn't happening it's often in overwatch 1 because the game speed wasn't as fast as it is in 2.
Oh it’s bullshit. People with higher latency being favoured. No other game does this but Overwatch, which means I can actually quite commonly blame the game for dying, most often as Moria fading or Genji dashing.
This happens with Road hook a lot too, when Mercy angels to someone or Hanzo leaping around. Just disconnects without anything in the way
im also 90% sure I dodged a high noon by just crouching at the right time (where they had no obstructions between us)
Yeah, Top (chest) LOS point is above the shot target, so they can still see you but the shot target is gonna hit a wall or whatever
Seek and Destroy. Never thought I'd hear another soul talk about that one. Those vs mini games were ridiculously fun. My sister and I spent hours playing. Gotta leave some appreciation for the nostalgia 👍
Lucio's aura has a similar issue where the LOS check doesn't use the same points as the visual indicator and there are marginal cases where someone can be in the aura indicator and not receive the aura. Not as big a deal as completely missing what ought-to-be a guaranteed kill tho.
You can also be just outside the aura and still get the benefits, but the craziest thing is how weird the aura looks, its more of a decagon than an actual circle, and it has 2 layers to it that you can see at the right angle
Very cool breakdown. It kinda sounds like they could make the bullet hit the visual indicator on their head with the same hardpoint and just don't let it headshot like ana or bastion turret. I have a couple clips of deadeye missing and it's nice to see some theoretical science behind it. Seems pretty legit. You can miss rein when he end's a charge also.
So not only is Deadeye kinda a bad ult other than for spacing, but its ""bugged" and doesnt work. GG nice work
Was this ever fix ?
Due to a bug where mccree can miss a genji while he is changing poses during a double jump, we have removed his double jump…
“It’s LOS Hardpoint Noon”
Ah but getting a 3 or 4 clap with dead eye once every 20 tries is so worth it
i even saw a clip of someone shooting a dead eye to an ana, but it missed just because ana just jumped, best ultimate of the game 11/10.
Love this content, very informative
judging by favor the shooter, i think i know why pose change does it, its because when you fire, the bullet is headed to the position that it should by your screen, but by the time the server gets your "fire deadeye in this direction" input, the hardpoint changes, so you miss because the bullet is still headed to old position, this is unlike bullets because it seems that bullet hit or miss happens clientside, then a "hit" or "miss" signal is handed to server and damage calc happens (this is why 2 hitscans can kill each other at same time), but for deadeye, your client only sends an angular vector of the deadeye bullet, and server decides hit or miss, which it then sends back to client. Its very weird, and i dont know why they make the exception for deadeye. this reason is also why pose change depends on ping, because higher ping means it takes longer for the vector to reach server meaning more time for a pose change to effect it
It has to be a Deadeye thing because I dont remember using Visor with soldier and missing bullets. Thats hitscan and works "the same" I guess? Dude this is insane.
Even if it works exactly the same, it'd be far less noticeable on Visor since the hard points would be updating every hit rather than ever ult. So even if you miss like 5 shots each time you ult, that's out of 60-90 total.
@@PunkZombie1300 Actually in The Comments of the Video, Marblr replied to a user that Tactical Visor hits every bullet. Meaning Visor and Deadeye work differently it seems as he couldn't get Visor to miss.
@@PunkZombie1300 Visor possibly works the same but it isn't bugged like Deadeye. Or possibly works a little differently because Marblr couldn't get it to miss
@@rickygamingproductions My guess would be that they did Visor properly, as in have LOS logic directly connected to shots - shoot the LOS point that is visible, rather than always shooting a specific point
@@rickygamingproductions Good to know, thanks.
In conclusion: genji should get nerfed
The jiggle and posture change misses are the one which needs fixing the most as others are kinda rare.
Yesterday one happened to me lol
I had something similar happen to me, I activated the ult and Ball hide behind a pole after filling red skull, I shoot as fast I could as soon as he was pushed out of it just to do some DMG to him but not kill him? I still don't know if that is how it's supposed to work.
Damn, cassidy needs a new ult at this point.
The fact that some random guy on the internet knows more about their game than the devs themselves worries me
They definitely know about it. Its probably a hard fix since deadeye is already a complicated ultimate. Redoing it would probably take a while
@@frankandmike9805 how is it complicated? Rofl it's literally just an aimbot.
@@frankandmike9805 at that point a rework to the ult as suggested by Mr "cassidy rolls" might be better. Honestly high noon isn't a fun ult, having him go akimbo would be more fun
@@seiji6195 anyone who knows anything about coding or game dev will tell you that it is not even CLOSE to being that easy.
He is not some random guy, he is in Game Development too
This came at a perfect time because this issue cost me a game last night. Full lock on Mercy, got a hitreg, she didn't die. I don't understand how one of the simplest abilities in the game can have such complicated issues.
Yeah I don't play a lot of McCree and this has still happened to me several times in OW2. I wasn't entirely sure what was happening, but knew it was related to opponents making sudden quick movements and confusing the Deadeye calculation. Don't know who Marblr is but he did his research and made a great video
Not sure if anybody would actually care if his ult was scrapped for something new, the voice line is cool and that's it. Maybe just give him some alternate ammo as an ultimate.
Just another reason to give Cassidy a new ultimate.
"Dude, how did you miss deadeye?"
"Mannnnn, I'm lagging too bad, this is unfair..."
"Don't try that bullshit excuse on- y'know what, I'm lagging a bit too, I'll try that."
1 lagspike later:
"Oh damn, you ain't lying, what the fuck-"
I’m so glad there’s a detailed explanation for why his ult has felt so weak since OW2. Been maining him for years and when I started playing him in OW2 I just thought it was intentional somehow. I hope it gets fixed rip
Why does Zen's bind pose look like he's like "TAKE ME NOW!" 😂
I played cassidy yesterday. I came up with a solution: Solo ult half health enemies out in the open, close range. Only need about half a second to charge (200hp average) so a shot is more likely to hit.
I came up with the idea after missing a 4k after clicking on 4 skulls.
him explaining all those hardpoints and whatnot is nice and all but....
i have never EVER seen deadeye miss in the 6 YEARS of OW1
this is clearly an OW2 issue...
Seek and destroy on ps1! That has brought back some memories. Big love my dude
I was waiting for your reaction to this
I never thought I'd find someone who loved, let alone knows, Seek and Destroy. That game was something different.
I knew this intuitively from playing junkrat on WiFi but it's cool to see it explained.
I'm not sure if your chat explains it, but at around 4:10 the reason the echo doesn't die is because he decreased damage taken, skulls can still appear
This can go both ways tho. I had one a few days ago that got me a 4pc and I was even questioning that as 2 of them were clearly behind cover and out of los from my screen.
6:00 nostalgia music super monkey ball 2 the water zone theme
I’ve missed so many Deadeyes and didn’t know why
But it did not have this issue in ow1, there must have been a change in the code on transition. This video also explains why I was getting killed as mei while being self frozen (had high lag, appeared frozen my side but standing still to enemy)
When magnetic grenade hits more than deadeye.
finally was gonna suggest you react to this
I actually wanna know if wintstons hardpoint is dislocated when he leaps would've been some nice info
I loved Seek and Destroy! It was such an Interesting cartoony tank game. Giant boss battles at the time crazy customization so many different tanks to choose from crazy story. I still own the original PS2 copy I wish it would get remastered.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, I loved Seek And Destroy as a kid. But I never could remember the name, so when you said it. It felt so familiar that i had to google it.
are they just broke it(like hanzo bow animation) or it was this way always?
well this explains so much -.-
thenumber of times Ill just miss at clutch moments even though I should have hit and resulted in a lose because of the jank -.-
I saw someone say to give him a transformation ult that has him pull out another revolver, he gets dmg reduction, and just goes akimbo.
i had high noon locked in on a mercy sojourn one game. It looked like it hit them, and in the replay I think it did because it did some damage to them, but neither of them died. This game is so awful sometimes.
Anyone got a link to the original video?
Okay so what if instead of shooting for high noon it simply sends the enemy back to spawn if they are in los
I really thought it was an "execute", and that the bullet was just for the looks
It should be as simple as checking if the enemies' head harpoint is visible to you, if it is, you make damage or kill them if you reach the skull icon, as simple as that
Seek and Destroy mentioned!!
I love Videos like this
Soldier ult must work somehow similar but i guess we don't realize it since he shoots multiple bullets in rapid succession
this confirms a theory of mine that there are fundemetal things with how the game checks stuff is not model accurate because of these small inconsistoncys in regards to well the hard point for one. infact im fairly sure the is some level to this with just regular shots to, idk how many times how characters move and i shot at them and im like "ok how is that a headshot" , especcially with suppots, oh got its worst with supports. ive shot lucio well wall riding at there waist down on my view and landed a headshot far more times then i can count
I've been that lucio so many times. It's really bad against hanzo since you can run into the shaft of his arrow as it goes by and get headshot.
Hopefully they're working on this as well while doing the rework
Dude mentioned Seek and Destroy. I was playing that literally yesterday. I've had that game most of my life.
This was interesting to watch
Marblr really does sound like a more chill surefour now that someone mentions it lol
I've had my deadeye miss while I was falling and a Anna who was jumping in place, was completely unobstructed. The red circle filled in and she took no damage from it.
This is some TF2 spaghetti code shenanigan
I've been playing Cass more recently and have noticed this. I'm like... this is not how it was in OW1. I have a full, clear shot and it misses. It's crazy.
When dead eye fires you know Imm about to start emoting to sit down to avoid it
the worst thing is that this doesn't even *seem* like a difficult fix to make it happen much less. Only do an LoS check on the upper hard point and never check for the bind pose hard pose
imagine the amount of times he had to listen to that "high noon" voice line
or he can just mute the game
Seems like a simple fix can be established, first check los upon activation - end of ult, then if los = true within the last 300 ms hit = true. Regardless of envirorment (minus barriers) , the damage dealt should be based off the time dead eye has been charging for. With a setup like this peaking a dead eye is ALWAYS a bad idea since the damage level is based off the amount of time spent in dead eye rather then the amount of time you have been locked onto and it will hit you through walls if you recently peaked or got to cover.
Sounds unfair but its an ultimate and has a myraid of counters to it, the man is literally a slow standing shoot me display until its charged up.
This feels alot like spy interp abuse but...inversed. as a short explanation: lagging spy becomes basically invincible and it becomes easier for them to one shot you.
But here is makes mcwestern man almost unplayable.
seek and destry ( the game) was KKND -I had it too
Flats' words in the last 5 seconds are why I find this situation so bizarre. I don't think I've ever seen it miss before this season and it happened to a friend and I like the first week of the season and several times throughout it. Mostly just on Mercy.
And to say they could just fix it from the beginning by having this projectile (and only this one) travel through walls
Why does a hitscan character have a projectile firing ult?
Seek and Destroy, the nostalgia!
If Deadeye only hits in the chest it should also only check for the chest I guess. It probably means there are other unkown issues w that sysetm too tho.
11:39 OH MY GOD I HATE THAT! THAT LITERALLY HAPPENS TO ME EVERY DAMN TIME! Now I finally know why 😵
There’s something about videos like Marblrs that are always fascinating to me. Breaking down video game bugs and mechanics are always a treat.