There has been some confusion, The "ad" is an homage to the camel ads, while also mocking people who have become corporate shills. We don't have any sponsors.
I really like that Paul will shoot meat targets with other rounds, first, even though the episode is about the Xtreme Defenders. So many other channels just focus on one round at a time, where-as we are getting continual, varied testing here for comparisons to different targets all the while with the same handgun.
yeah when a channel is payed to promote ammo for instance the company doesnt want them comparing it because it wont look as great or might even look bad. If you make a company look bad you get blacklisted. NutnFancy has been blacklisted for years that's why I like him and Paul they don't take money to do sham reviews
@@nunya3163 Yes, at least two other channels - far less main-stream, far fewer followers, have been using Paul's meat-target (just not as neatly presented).
Thank you Paul and thank you for the pitch about outdoor public ranges and AHs leaving their junk after shooting it. There’s a great one close to me…there Saturday…old chair, shot up beer cans, a motorcycle helmet. It would take just a stroke of a pen to close it forever(in Roosevelt National Forest, above Lyons Colorado). DON’T be a slob!!
I'm in south Denver. Hate going to some of the open ranges because of the garbage. Turkey Creek had garbage everywhere last time I was there. Pawnee's always clean though.
My brother and I take two plastic bags to the shootin' ditch: one for brass, one for trash. My son goes with us now and we've gotten him in the habit of cleaning up.
On the plus side of brass being more expensive, it’s found less often at my public range. Shells and clays still litter the area along with a bunch of other debris. I’ve been meaning to place a few trash cans, but I fear those will become impromptu targets. These people are why we can’t have nice things.
I don't know if you've heard Doug, but if you haven't, unfortunately I bring some bad news. Paul died on September 3rd, 2024. He even made a video for that day. ruclips.net/video/M-gZuFcEu0E/видео.html He is greatly missed.
I really think 380 is a caliber that can really benefit from the Underwood ammo. I've seen a lot of testing and unlike most JHPs that expand the Underwood ammo penetrates well. It also does more damage than FMJ but doesn't over penetrate like FMJ. Underwood is expensive but in this case it's worth it.
I think, because of my arthritis, and shooting my .380 EZ by S&W, that I prefer the Underwood Xtreme Defender 68 gr. There is noticably, to me, less "snap/twist" to that round. I might also add, I enjoy even more shooting the 975 fps rated 100 gr LHC projectile that Underwood makes. I can shoot that one all day long.
I'll have to try it. Shot my Ruger LCP2 with 115grain for the first time and was surprised at the amount of kick that thing had. Within two mags my hand was aching.
Been watching Paul Harrell for a long time, I just realized with his velocity comparison as he brings out 2 different firearms, he maintains excellent muzzle control. Barrels stay down range. Leading by example, some lessons are subtle.
Two points I'd like to make here: 1) I snorted a mouthful of Dr. Pepper when the PopTarts ad came up - brilliant take on the old Camel ads. 2) I learned a ton about the expansion of .380 ACP and barrel lengths. Thank you!!!
Paul, as always that was very informative. I appreciate the mention of not trashing our public ranges. When I was working with the Boy Scouts years ago, as part of our activities we would take a short time at the end of the day and pickup trash at these public access areas. It's surprising how much trash a group of 10 or more kids can remove from an area in 20 minutes. I would always have a full pickup bed loaded with trash and would dispose of the junk in a private dumpster paid for by my company. Anyway,thanks for what you do - you're the best!
It’s terrible isn’t it? I don’t blame anyone except the litter bugs when they get shut down. I always take a whole garbage bag or two of other people’s garbage when I leave. It’s ridiculous.
The American Indian is still crying over what we do to the planet. -- From the "Keep America Beautiful" public service announcement, 1970's. I've watched people visiting my neighbors throw their fast food trash on the ground and walk into the house, and picked up more garbage in one day than some able-bodied neighbors pick up in 5 years. The language I wish to post about this would not make Paul happy (!)
When I was in the Boy Scouts it was always “leave it better than when you arrived.” Countless bags of trash pulled from forests and parks. You’d be surprised, or not, how deep into the woods litter bugs can go.
@@BandAid350z My son who was one of those Boy Scouts years ago still remembers the lesson of picking up trash. We went shooting at our public range a couple weeks ago and and before we left he had a box full of junk.
Paul touched on exactly why I carry the +P version in my Kel-Tec P3AT. Hollow points in .380 are very challenging to get even minimal expansion while also getting 12-18" of penetration in heavy-clothing gel tests. The only exception I've found is Critical defense, which LuckyGunner and others have shown consistently penetrates about 13" while reliably expanding every time. But 13" is close enough to the minimum to make me slightly nervous. In contrast, the Xtreme Defenders don't rely on expansion, and regardless of velocity will penetrate 14-18", not overpenetrate like a hollow point that doesn't expand, and yet will cause more damage than an FMJ or HP that fails to expand. They also cause more damage than most HPs that do expand. To me, the XD is a game changer for .380 and well worth the price.
This is where I think the XD ammo shines the most. It can increase penetration and damage on marginal calibers where you cannot simply jack up the round's velocity to exceed that 1,000fps "threshold" where most hollowpoints will expand reliably. The .380, 9mm Makarov, .32 ACP, and even the lowly .25 ACP could have more effective rounds (comparatively speaking) in the XD configuration.
Hornady XTP bullets have also been shown to work well in 380, even better than the FTX bullets in the critical Defense 380 rounds. They expand less at full expansion so they penetrate more, and the expansion threshold is much lower so they expand more reliably.
Unfortunately, Lucky Gunner, like many "ammo testers," chose to use a Glock 42, instead of a Ruger LCP, which would have been far more representative of the .380 barrel length that most people actually carry.
As always excellent shooting and now i'm off to buy some Pop Tarts And the meat & oranges target tells you so much more Vs boring ballistic gelatin. Now we wait fo the trolls to argue
I'm just picturing Mr. Harrell at the CostCo checkout with a cart full of ribs, oranges, and 2L soda... Cashier says "Oh, another ammo review coming?" ;-) Seriously though, thanks for the info! Great review.
I have personally examined two 380 slugs taken from two different people killed by them. One was a Fed HP and the other a Rem Golden saber. Neither expanded a lot, but some at least, but penetration was fully across the thoracic cavity from side to side......after going through the side of a bus with one victim and through a thin metal partition and an arm before hitting the second victim's body and crossing it side to side completely. Both victim's were full grown adults. One shot each. That changed my opinion a bit on the 380 for SD use.
It's interesting because you can look at a .380 or even something smaller like a .22 and think "man, there's no way that tiny little thing can do any damage." It's hard to visualize the incredible amount of energy that a bullet carries with it and the amount of damage that energy does on impact. I agree .380 is fully capable of deep penetration into the human body (or even as you described, fully capable of a thru-and-thru impact)
Consider, two rounds from a 380 was the first domino that created the world we have today. The Archduke and his wife didn't even make it to hospital. DOA
That's why I carry the Underwood Xtreme Defender when I carry .380 acp. I don't have to worry about denim clogging it up, or not enough velocity to get expansion! Also, it has more velocity than the other ones, and only it and Precision One .380 pass the 12 to 18" FBI standards in the ballistic gel test! Great video! I couldn't wait to see what it would do to the meat target!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲
And now 2/24. We have the new federal 99 grain hydra shock Deep which goes 14 inches expanding.44 in gel vs the older HST 99. Grain that gets 10 inches. In gel. So I’m going to load my G 42 With. Alternating 63 gr Extreme Defender and 99 gr Federal Hydra shock Deep. Losing the Federal 99 gr HST in 380. HST 124 gr +p in 9mm is great. I alternate that with 68 gr or 90 gr Extreme Defender underwood +P.
Paul, you are a treasure for your focus. No bias, you accept the results as they appear, and you consistently use a control variable. Thank you for what you do.
I find your many-many videos to be extremely (pun intended) comprehensive sir. Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom of ballistic applications with RUclips. I've learned a lot over the years looking at your very informative videos. Be well sir. By the way, over the years, I've settled on using only extremely hot Underwood ammunition in my tools of choice, and to-date I've had no feeding issues, or any negative issues of any kind with these rounds.....great stuff. Take care sir.
That’s a great comment I’m trying, begging, for him to do a test using +P+ , in a 9mm. After doing some research to see if it would be safe I decided to get a box and shoot a few rounds through it. Apparently, there were some issues with feeding incorrectly and not going into battery. I think that was because of the odd shape of the round, and as I recall, it blew up a couple of the 9mm’s. My weapon of choice is a Springfield Armory XD subcompact with a 3 inch barrel. The accuracy was superb, but the recoil was unlike anything I can really describe, and I had no issues whatsoever. Have you by chance shot a Luger +P+ 90 fps underwood in a nine? Underwood claims that the extreme defender item 817 has 1550fps. I find that hard to believe. And I realize I would have less muzzle velocity, because of the 3 inch barrel. If you get a minute, please respond. And have a nice day.
@@MrA.51 Hello Mr. A, how are you sir, I hope and trust that all is well my brother. I generally carry a Gen 4 Glock 20 with a KKM barrel, and I've replaced the stock spring (I think that it was originally a 17 pound spring) with a 22 pound spring...and I also carry a Gen 4 Glock 32 with a stock 18 pound spring along with a KKM barrel. I only use all types of Underwood ammunition in both of my Glocks. What I found over the years, is that the Underwood rounds shoot extremely....[extremely] hot, and have full power...AND, they shoot extremely clean compared to other rounds...I've found this round to be an outstanding, and a consistently well feeding round. I, in the beginning shot all types of ammunition in both of these guns like the Hornady Critical Defense, Buffalo Bore (this one is wonderfully hot, but very-very dirty to shoot), Corbon (this one is also a very nice round), but when I discovered Underwood Ammunition many years ago, I found it to be just what I was looking for. I do not think that I have ever shot a +P+ 9×19mm round in any gun. I'm sorry that I don't have any experience using your tool of choice, I've shot 9mm in my Heckler & Koch VP9, but it was not rated +P+. I must admit that I am now curious to try this +P+ out. I have no complaints with either of my regularly carried tools though...and I've put many-many-many rounds through both of these tools. I wish that I could have been of more help to you Mr A...take care, and best of luck to you on your information journey my brother.
I like how he picked up the safety glasses just before shooting the meat target: "Yup, I use PPE" without saying a word or needing to show anything more than that.
I use this stuff in my .32 Seecamp. It is by far the best round I've used, for such a small gun. A hollow point will never expand out of that gun, so it's just adding more surface area onto the tip of the projectile, lowering the amount of penetration. The XDs have consistently acbieved much greater penetration(no worries on over penetration) than any of the HPs I have tested out of it.
@@boostimalaka1 I have used Hornady XTP, CorBon JHP, Fiocchi SJHP and Underwood XD. All ran without Issue. But the Underwood was by far the best performing, as far as accuracy and damage were concerned. Most of my testing is can and bottle plinking. When the others hit, they poked clean holes. The Underwood would leave much larger "wounds", that were fairly mangled. Also, it was the only round that I could reliably(close to 100%) get hits on target with. 5-7 yards, shooting at 12oz cans and 16.9oz bottles. My recyclables never make it to the recycling place, without looking like they went through a paper shredder. Fill em with water and start shootin! Haha.
A perfect example of why we need to test the ammo we use in our own firearm(s). Just because it says 'self defense ammo' or whatever on the box, do not trust it to perform as expected in your own firearm. Educational and Entertaining as always, thanks Paul.
Very interesting Paul, Reaffirms what I've long thought about 380 ammo. In that bullet design and velocity can be critical factors when it comes to effectiveness on target, particularly in this caliber!
For me and I imagine others, in our .380s we give up expansion and some wound channel size for the more reliable penetration and sometimes straighter penetration (in gel anyway) of non-expanding bullets. That is a gamble like all compromises/choices in guns and ammo.
I just watched all your other .380 videos (after buying a LCP Max) and I was really hoping to see this one in the meat target. Thank You!!!! Much better info (for me) than the gel tests on other channels. You are the man.
That is a pretty awesome example, what is shows me is that .380 isn’t all that poop less under the right conditions and fired from the right pistola! Thanks again for opening my eyes!
Please keep these coming. I find your work consistently educational. However, I would like to add one request .You have pointed out that some jurisdictions do not allow for hollowpoint ammunition. If you could you include simple FMJ ammo in more of these comparisons I think they might be even more useful.
Good point. We have done a few presentations that feature a demo of FMJ vs. the meat target, but including them in these ammo comparisons may be helpful.
@@williamstevens4172 If I remember correctly in some jurisdictions “non-traditional” type projectiles are banned and in a few instances by name specifically. As it stands, a comparison between FMJ and Underwood type ammo would be illuminating.
one of my favorite paul harrell videos i cant say it enough you have taught me a lot about firearms in the last 10 years you will always be the goat!!!
You'll forever be one of my favorites, Paul. I still rewatch last year's "thanksgiving special." I enjoy your repetitive, over analysis, but still quite informative deliveries and presentations. :)
If I recall correctly, the selling point of the fluted type 380 acp ammo is the ability to penetrate heavy or thick outer garments worn in the winter and still do damage to tissue. The flutes are supposed to cause damage by hydrailic shock. Expansion is not expected or desired.
My daughter has a HiPoint pistol in Muddy Girl camo loaded with Federal Punch .380 ammunition, for when she has to be home by herself. That 380 runs great and my daughter loves burning a few boxes of ammo through it on a weekend. The punch ammo rips a pork roast to shreds.
Punch may be a good choice for .380. I believe they use a softer bullet that isn't designed with shooting through barriers in mind. Might make them more likely to expand at .380 velocities.
@@BrockOBauma All I know is this, if they will work the same on a intruder as they do on that pork roast, it'll be a extremely bad day for the intruder.
Goes back to what you've said in the past. Test your gun with the ammunition you intend to use and make sure it expands properly, doesn't cause malfunctions, and shoots accurately from your gun. Even though the guns may be the same caliber, brand and model doesn't mean it will have the same results you got. The 380 acp and 45 acp seem to be designed for fmj round nose bullets. Both these calibers were developed in late 1800s and early 1900s even early 9mm had similar issues with low pressure bullets not going fast enough to expand or penatrate as you talked about in the Miami Dade fbi shooting. Bullets have gotten much better for 9mm and have improved for 380 and 45 but you really need to test the ammunition for your own guns
Thank you. All I run through my .380 is fmj round nose and I always feel like a kid out of place in class when everyone else is talking about Hornady CD and Fiochi and Golden Saber hollow point. Doesn't any one else just rely on good old fashioned ball ammo? It's great when you know in the wintertime people wearing big heavy coats that the ball ammo isn't going to mind it a bit.
My every day carry is a Glock 42 with Trijicon HD XR Night Sights and a 9 round ETS magazine fitted with an XGRIP for a full three-finger grip. I load the magazine with 8 rounds maximum, plus one in the chamber, to ensure 100% reliability. Ammo of choice is Underwood Extreme Penetrator 380+P. This combination has very little recoil, is very controllable and EXTREMELY accurate! I carry it 24/7 in a DeSantis Nemesis Pocket Holster and honestly it's so light and compact that I forget it's there. The best self-defense pistol is the one you never leave home without!
I carry the Underwood Extreme Defender in my Glock 43X and love it to death. I have a Bersa 380 CC as my truck gun and load it with the Extreme Penetrator 90 grain. But it's expensive as hell these days so it will get replaced with the Extreme Defender, which is less expensive and easier to find. I like how powerful and barrier blind they are while still producing results like a hollow point.
What a timely video. I was just at the range this weekend to chrono my test handloads of this 68gn xtreme defender in my 380s. My 380s have a 4.25" and 3.8" barrel lengths and i was getting 1250-1300+ fps from those. That is 255 fpe at the muzzle, which is pretty impressive compared to the energies from those micro 380s you were testing. My 100 gn FMJs are around 1000 fps from those guns. I know 380 has the reputation for being anemic, but it seems to me that the reputation is entirely because of the micro pistols with inadequate barrel length and the "budget" hollow point ammo that fails to expand at the
Check out G9 Defense 124g +p Woodsman for what seems to be a great penetrating round and the greatest wound cavity expansion available for 9mm. I carry these in a Glock 34 anytime I go in to the eastern US woods.
The problem is nobody gives a damn what a 380 does out of a 4 inch gun.If you going with a weapon that size,there is literally no reason not to bump it on up to 9mm.The ONLY reason anybody is carrying a 380 is.because of the convenience and concealability of these little micros like lcp,sw bodyguard,taurus tcp etc.In which case these extreme defenders or extreme penetrators are the most effective rounds for them by far.
I've purchased a few types if underwood ammunition and always been pleased with its performance. Underwood extreme penetrators is what I put in my carry when I'm out in bear country.
I’m glad you did this video. I watched with “extreme” interest with your test on its sister cartridge. I was curious which would be better in this caliber. Based on all of your tests the Xtreme Penetrator seems to be the best option if I use a ..380 for self defense.
Xtreme Penetrator is a different projectile from Lehigh, which is generally meant for hunting. In comparison, Xtreme Defender will create larger wound cavities and is less likely to over-penetrate.
Ditto what ars3nic and codiddley said. The Xtreme Penetrator doesn't meet one of my most important criteria for self-defense due to over-penetration. It was not designed as a self-defence projectile. I spent the better part of 6 months testing & researching .380 ACP self-defense ammo, which included watching every review I could find. For me, the Underwood XD tested here was the clear choice in a Bersa Thunder 380. There were ZERO failures in ammo handling (failure to feed, eject, or fire), and accuracy was excellent. In my opinion, Underwood's quality control is superb. FYI, of all the JHP rounds I tested, Hornady's FTX (90 gr.) was the best, being the closest to barrier blind after the XD, which is _completely_ barrier blind. The FTX is a lot slower than the XD, but still had consistently excellent expansion. However, the physics of the XD's conversion of rotational energy to transverse shock makes for significantly greater termnal effect, with a larger wound channel. Nothing else comes close.
I use the Underwood Xtreme Penetrator in my 380, 90 gr, standard pressure, 979 fps, 194 ft-lbf. The other respondents are quoting marketing materials and making general remarks - and have obviously not seen Paul's video that you're referring to, they can be safely ignored. If you go with the Penetrators, you'll be fine.
The penetrator is a bit too much pentration imo. These hit the sweet spot on penetration. And these get more cavitation. If I'm not mistaken these hit about 16" on a FBI gel test and the penetrators are over 24". I really think the gel test is important to check out with these rounds because the meat target doesn't effectively show the differences with such a low powered round
One of the things I admire about you is the serious, rational and argumentative nature of your character. It gives a guy peace of mind to listen to another fellow man speak about something in a serious and coherent manner.
A few years back I got a hold of some hand loaded 380 acp. It was loaded with Starfire hollow points I believe of PMC design but they seem to be loaded a little bit hot. Not sure what the specifications were but you could definitely tell a noise and recoil difference between that and factory ammo. But we got pretty good expansion out of it not sure how much of that was due to it being a hot round. I know 380 expansion seems to be a contentious point at best. About like anything else too really some things function better than others out of different barrel lengths. Another excellent video though
Where these xtreme defender helps is at .32 ACP where you are lucky to get any hollow point expansion regardless of barrel length. Using Underwood .32 ACP +P with the xtreme defender bullet, it might be a viable defense round for a larger group of users.
I don't know how you do it Paul, but your uploads are always relevant for my current projects. I just bought a PPK/S last week. I'm starting with cast bullet loads but want to get regular defense loads. I normally carry a glock 19, but wanted something with a slimer profile for certain days, and the PPK was a pretty good deal.
For years I've carried my Bersa Thunder .380 ACP CC, loaded with 90 gr Federal Hydra-shok JHP. I have gotten reliable expansion and decent penetration with this loading out of this gun.
@@Nickrioblanco1 using a variety of medium (wood, meat, fruit, etc.) and ballistic gelatin, you could come to your own conclusions on what is decent or reliable. For me in my gun, I found the results favorable.
Federal Hydra-Shock has been good for me in pretty much every platform I’ve tried. Going in blind on an ammo choice for a new pistol, I’d pick that. Then likely Remington or Hornady. But as the great Papa Hotel says, “not all conditions are the same and one firearm and ammo combination may vary.”
Generally projectile velocity has a greater impact on penetration in soft tissue than mass, so a light and fast bullet like the xtreme defender should actually penetrate deeper.
I would say more damage on the oranges with the defender. Looks significant. This video helps confirm my suspicion that my.357 air rifle which has very similar ballistics to a .380 pistol actually does more damage. I have shot gel and a meat target. and despite the near identical fpe the nature of the airgun ammo(pure lead) compared to firearm ammo produced more damage on my ''pig target''. That was especially true with the steel ball bearing ballistic tipped hp ammo. That same ammo did well in gel too. With a 4'' separate wound channel branching off the main 10 1//2 inch overall channel. The second channel was the ball bearing. The rest of the projectile achieved good expansion. This is pretty ideal for suppressed hunting. this particular Airgun comes with a suppressor and no special permission or fee needed.. Feral swine and yotes are usually the game hunted. Many times additional eradication is achieved because of how quiet the weapon is. For example the other pigs just don't run off or come back quickly and think their buddy was just having a stroke.
@@James28R It does. for example 93 grains 854 fps 150 fpe. Spot on .380 ballistics. I don't know what your basing your comment on. Thanks for the interest and comment though
Thanks, Paul. You have confirmed precisely what I was expecting from the .380 Underwood Extreme Defender. I have them in my .357 Sig and the G9 in my S&W .40 M&P. I appreciate the way you present all the facts.
Hey Paul, I love your videos. One suggestion, when you show the “close ups” of the fired rounds. It would be helpful if you held them close enough to actually see them.
Thanks for another great review. One of the tested benefits from the Underwood extreme defender is that it is somewhat "barrier blind" which allows it to get past the issue of clogging a hollow point with clothes (I know that's why you use leather and cloth layers in front on the meat target) or drywall or glass such as a windshield etc.- many of the things that can get between you and the bad guy. This will still have the desired "hydrostatic shock" effect that the hollow points are designed to do with their expansion. Also some guns are finicky with hollow points feeding from the magazine such as getting caught on the feed ramp on the barrel so every ammo should be checked for function in your specific gun. Plus, the flutes on the Underwood ammo help prevent over penetration as you saw in your test DESPITE the added velocity and foot pounds of energy. Better energy dump in my most humble opinion.
I use the Underworld Xtreme Defender in my .380s for pocket carry, mostly during summer in shorts. They performed well in my Sig P238 and Ruger LCP II in my testing. Very reliable penetration and seemed like plenty of energy dump.
Paul, since you seem to be a fan of 38 super, I was wondering if you would weigh in on this: supposedly, early Colt 38 super 1911s had accuracy issues. I have yet to find any proof or supporting documentation of this. The given reason for this accuracy problem was that early 38 super barrels headspaced on the rim rather than the case mouth. The implication here is that these barrels would have excessive headspace if you are measuring with the case mouth. This issue was supposedly fixed sometime in the 1970s, when Colt started measuring headspace from the case mouth and making barrels to that standard. The problem with this reasoning is that General Julain Hatcher has done tests that show excessive headspace doesn't contribute to bad accuracy. His tests were done with 1903 Springfields and showed no change in accuracy at normal and excessive headspace. However, it is only my assumption that these results translate to to 1911s.
I have no experience with 38 Supers being inaccurate. Mine have always been extremely accurate. I did read John Taffin writing about this many years ago. He had always wanted a super and finally purchased one. He couldn’t get it to shoot well. Replaced the barrel, and it immediately became an extremely accurate pistol. So, there maybe something to it, but any problem that may have once existed, no longer does.
I’ve been tinkering around with a bit of extreme defender lately but It’s been 44 special extreme defender. I do a couple videos about it. Thanks for doing this video. Me and all of my friends very much enjoyed watching it.
Seeing that the Underwood ammo performed very well....and wasn't so "barrel length/velocity" dependent...I'm left confused at Paul's somewhat cool repsonse saying it's a personal choice.....but that this ammo "wasn't for him" ( 17:41 - 18:22) . Hmm......why? Would have liked a more elaborate explanation on that.
I was happy to see that the bullets were stopped by t-shirt or first layer of fleece. The tissue damage was very unimpressive to me, though. So I don’t see myself carrying a .380 for defense. Still, it’s better than a harsh word.
Paul, Again another well done comparison on .380 acp My wife an I carry this caliber despite its less than ideal performance. The Bodyguard .380 just slips in our pockets so easily. I very much appreciate your "meat target" test media. Sure seems like very small holes with little damage. Our 9mm and .45 pistols are looking like a way better choice overall. You have taught me/us so much of the years... great work !
Definitely curious, but I'm fine with either my 9 or 380 everyday carry, yes both..... hard to find 380 ammo, and harder to spend the extra for the ammo over 9mm, but skeptically intrigued 🤔... it's going to be a hard sell for Federal for sure
@@JJoker69 I mean i don't see 30 super replacing anything, but it might be a great choice for like ankle backup gun or people with incredibly small hands or something...it has a place just not a very big one... the slight capacity increase is neat and all, but if you cant get it done with 10 i doubt 2 more are going to help you.
30SC is a solution looking for a problem, but it's not likely to find one. I don't hate the idea, but the one or two extra rounds isn't going to be enough of an advantage for 9mm people to invest in a completely new caliber for essentially the same performance (supposedly). As for replacing 380, the super high chamber pressures of 30SC probably eliminates it from the pocket pistol category where it actually might have made enough of a capacity and weight difference to matter.
After watching several 380 comparison videos with sub compact guns, I decided to keep Lehigh Xtreme penetrators in my LCP Custom. They function in my gun reliably, which is the most important thing to me. Thanks for the video. Real world info for many pocket carry folks in this day and age.
Paul , loved the video on the .380 ACP rounds. My question is how many boxes of pop tarts does it take to replace 500 rated Ballistic armor if taped to my chest ? Also how fast would I need to run to escape a hungry black bear with a 25 yard head start going after my taped to the chest pop tarts ?
I remember when I thought the same about every other pistol caliber compared to 10mm. I'm glad that I was able to see my ignorance on the subject and change my view based on actual facts. Obviously you haven't.
I have carried a 5.25" .357 (with loads chosen for the day's circumstances) for the last six years religiously. I recently got an LCP Max because the LCP makes a better pajama and pocket gun. When not in pajama type clothing I carry both. The LCP in a pocket gives me a second draw that could be, depending on circumstances a better option over the more complex and somewhat slower shoulder rig draw of the .357. I live on a mountain side in WY with grizzlies and other predators where the .357 can make more sense than it would in an urban environment, but I still carry it when I go to town. I am just better with it than my other guns and am irrationally romantic.
@@TheHandHistoryVault clearly you still have some ignorance to deal with, .380 is isn't the best option for everyone. I dont have one either and probably never will, 9mm is the smallest I care to have with the exception of a few 22lr pistols for plinking with my kids. My wife however has 380 and 9mm, she doesn't want anything bigger. We have different perspectives, thats the reality of your ignorance that you think others need to see it the same as you.
Thank you for putting in a plug for range cleaning. I always try to leave the range cleaner than I found it. If everyone else did as well, we would have some squeaky-clean ranges. And thank you for this test. I may have to reconsider my wife's carry ammo.
The pucture Meme in the beginning will be hanging on my wall tonight Paul. I absoutley live you. The content and the way you enlighten all of us. Thank you for being here, and for teaching us there is a better way.
Been banned on RUclips. Back and re subscribed to you. I’m so glad RUclips hasn’t banned you and you’re still posting content. I love you Paul. One of the best RUclips channels I’ve ever seen.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
There has been some confusion,
The "ad" is an homage to the camel ads, while also mocking people who have become corporate shills.
We don't have any sponsors.
Well, I’m sure others (including myself) find it hilarious. Keep it up!
I got it immediately and loved it. :)
Sure does make me want a blueberry Pop Tart though.
I wouldn't mind if you shilled for pot tarts. Would allow for more meat targets.
I had a coughing fit the last time. That was unexpected and really funny. Keep it up!
Rewatching this because I bought a Bersa Thunder several months ago. Can't believe he's gone. Rest In Peace Paul! Gone way too soon!
Yes , very sad
Everyone’s sentiments.
Gone way too soon. The Lord has his plans for all of us.
Paul will be missed by many folks and gun enthusiasts alike.
Rip Paul
Paul hits the 9-ring: "We had one flier, that's just me."
I hit the 9-ring: "OH YEAH I'm in the zone!"
The guy is superhuman. Guess that is why he's got those boxes of competition awards.
"fairly good group" :-D
@@lazaglider Haha saw that rebuttal vid. Dumps a large cardboard box full of various gold medals on the table. Classic.
hehe 😄
And how many rounds per year do you shoot vs. Harrell?
Gone from this earth and still teaching from the other side. This man is s legend.
I doubt he's teaching how to kill, what is best to that end.
The Paul Harrell pop-tarts ads are my new favorite thing!
Marlboro Country? Nah, Pop Tart Township is where a man really belongs.
As long as paul isn’t telling me that its the best pop-tart for me.
I want to see him actually eat one.
@@pigybak hahahaha right. Has to be a close up.
I don't get it. Is he saying that a man belongs popping a tart?
I can't stand Pop Tarts so I just make a yuck face.
The new opening is great. Paul's humor is multilayered - much like PopTarts or the high-tech fleece bullet stop.
Correction: "New and Improved" high-tech fleece bullet stop. 🤣🤣
Kid: Why are you buying 10 boxes of pop tarts?
Dad: because these are the limited edition Paul Harrell collection, gotta have them all.
survival food
Better get several of the Wildberry. They're scientifically the best!
@@Pinned2Five I always struggle to find wildberry around here. They're definitely the okayest flavor of them all.
😂😂😂 save me a box on the shelf im on my way to the store as we speak
The generic at Winco, has the special Paul traiding cards inside!
I really like that Paul will shoot meat targets with other rounds, first, even though the episode is about the Xtreme Defenders. So many other channels just focus on one round at a time, where-as we are getting continual, varied testing here for comparisons to different targets all the while with the same handgun.
yeah when a channel is payed to promote ammo for instance the company doesnt want them comparing it because it wont look as great or might even look bad. If you make a company look bad you get blacklisted. NutnFancy has been blacklisted for years that's why I like him and Paul they don't take money to do sham reviews
Do any others have a meat target analog? All I ever see is the ballistic gel, often overly used gel.
@@nunya3163 Yes, at least two other channels - far less main-stream, far fewer followers, have been using Paul's meat-target (just not as neatly presented).
Miss you, Paul. Rest in Peace.
Thank you Paul and thank you for the pitch about outdoor public ranges and AHs leaving their junk after shooting it. There’s a great one close to me…there Saturday…old chair, shot up beer cans, a motorcycle helmet. It would take just a stroke of a pen to close it forever(in Roosevelt National Forest, above Lyons Colorado). DON’T be a slob!!
I hope there are hefty fines involved if they are caught
I'm in south Denver. Hate going to some of the open ranges because of the garbage. Turkey Creek had garbage everywhere last time I was there. Pawnee's always clean though.
Somebody left an old camper in the the desert where lots of people shoot
My brother and I take two plastic bags to the shootin' ditch: one for brass, one for trash. My son goes with us now and we've gotten him in the habit of cleaning up.
On the plus side of brass being more expensive, it’s found less often at my public range. Shells and clays still litter the area along with a bunch of other debris. I’ve been meaning to place a few trash cans, but I fear those will become impromptu targets. These people are why we can’t have nice things.
You know its going to be a GREAT day, Paul has a new video.
Paul's bugout bag content, ribs, oranges, and boxes of pop tarts.
the bag itself being made from several layers of leather jacket, t-shirt and hi-tech fleece.
God Bless you Paul.
I hope you fully recover.
SGT DOUG, RECON, 101ST, RVN 68-69, LZ SALLY
I don't know if you've heard Doug, but if you haven't, unfortunately I bring some bad news. Paul died on September 3rd, 2024. He even made a video for that day. ruclips.net/video/M-gZuFcEu0E/видео.html
He is greatly missed.
Still bringing value. Rest easy PH.
Not often the bullets fall out of the meat target! Thanks for info Mr. Harrell!
That fleece bullet stop must be really high-tech! It actually spits out bullets!
I've been watching for years and haven't seen that happen that I recall; it happened *twice* this video!
I really think 380 is a caliber that can really benefit from the Underwood ammo. I've seen a lot of testing and unlike most JHPs that expand the Underwood ammo penetrates well. It also does more damage than FMJ but doesn't over penetrate like FMJ. Underwood is expensive but in this case it's worth it.
Very good ammo for 10mm
@@BartlettRacing66 10mm! A good choice!
@@smiffythecat3751 Got a Witness Hunter with my first trump check in 2020, only paid $100 in tax for it haha
The only JHP i trust in 380 is Hornady XTP, preferably in +P. I carried Underwood 380+P Xtreme penetrators when I used to live in black bear country.
@@Followme556 have you seen tests of Federal Hydrashok Deeps in 380? Legitimately impressive, possibly even beating Hornady XTP.
I think, because of my arthritis, and shooting my .380 EZ by S&W, that I prefer the Underwood Xtreme Defender 68 gr. There is noticably, to me, less "snap/twist" to that round. I might also add, I enjoy even more shooting the 975 fps rated 100 gr LHC projectile that Underwood makes. I can shoot that one all day long.
You and me both. Basal joint arthritis takes the fun out anything much bigger.
@@dr.michaelbennett8597 I understand my grandmother's gardening complaints much better now. Used to enjoy SA .45 Colt... Oh, well.
@@johnkellmer5133 YA, NO KIDDING, IT'S SUCKS GETTING OLD.
@@NoWr2Run yep getting old ain't for pussies
I'll have to try it. Shot my Ruger LCP2 with 115grain for the first time and was surprised at the amount of kick that thing had. Within two mags my hand was aching.
Been watching Paul Harrell for a long time, I just realized with his velocity comparison as he brings out 2 different firearms, he maintains excellent muzzle control. Barrels stay down range. Leading by example, some lessons are subtle.
Two points I'd like to make here: 1) I snorted a mouthful of Dr. Pepper when the PopTarts ad came up - brilliant take on the old Camel ads. 2) I learned a ton about the expansion of .380 ACP and barrel lengths. Thank you!!!
Paul, as always that was very informative. I appreciate the mention of not trashing our public ranges. When I was working with the Boy Scouts years ago, as part of our activities we would take a short time at the end of the day and pickup trash at these public access areas. It's surprising how much trash a group of 10 or more kids can remove from an area in 20 minutes. I would always have a full pickup bed loaded with trash and would dispose of the junk in a private dumpster paid for by my company. Anyway,thanks for what you do - you're the best!
It’s terrible isn’t it? I don’t blame anyone except the litter bugs when they get shut down. I always take a whole garbage bag or two of other people’s garbage when I leave. It’s ridiculous.
The American Indian is still crying over what we do to the planet.
-- From the "Keep America Beautiful" public service announcement, 1970's.
I've watched people visiting my neighbors throw their fast food trash on the ground and walk into the house, and picked up more garbage in one day than some able-bodied neighbors pick up in 5 years. The language I wish to post about this would not make Paul happy (!)
When I was in the Boy Scouts it was always “leave it better than when you arrived.” Countless bags of trash pulled from forests and parks. You’d be surprised, or not, how deep into the woods litter bugs can go.
Sadly we were just discussing this this weekend at my public range. Crap is usually left everywhere.
@@BandAid350z My son who was one of those Boy Scouts years ago still remembers the lesson of picking up trash. We went shooting at our public range a couple weeks ago and and before we left he had a box full of junk.
Paul touched on exactly why I carry the +P version in my Kel-Tec P3AT. Hollow points in .380 are very challenging to get even minimal expansion while also getting 12-18" of penetration in heavy-clothing gel tests. The only exception I've found is Critical defense, which LuckyGunner and others have shown consistently penetrates about 13" while reliably expanding every time. But 13" is close enough to the minimum to make me slightly nervous.
In contrast, the Xtreme Defenders don't rely on expansion, and regardless of velocity will penetrate 14-18", not overpenetrate like a hollow point that doesn't expand, and yet will cause more damage than an FMJ or HP that fails to expand. They also cause more damage than most HPs that do expand. To me, the XD is a game changer for .380 and well worth the price.
I like the XD as well. I can go from my 2" revolver to my 16" carbine with the same ammo and not have to worry about velocity dependent expansion.
This is where I think the XD ammo shines the most. It can increase penetration and damage on marginal calibers where you cannot simply jack up the round's velocity to exceed that 1,000fps "threshold" where most hollowpoints will expand reliably. The .380, 9mm Makarov, .32 ACP, and even the lowly .25 ACP could have more effective rounds (comparatively speaking) in the XD configuration.
Agreed, great round for small weapons.
Hornady XTP bullets have also been shown to work well in 380, even better than the FTX bullets in the critical Defense 380 rounds. They expand less at full expansion so they penetrate more, and the expansion threshold is much lower so they expand more reliably.
Unfortunately, Lucky Gunner, like many "ammo testers," chose to use a Glock 42, instead of a Ruger LCP, which would have been far more representative of the .380 barrel length that most people actually carry.
Paul has the best ammo reviews! Thats how I got hooked on this channel!
As always excellent shooting and now i'm off to buy some Pop Tarts
And the meat & oranges target tells you so much more Vs boring ballistic gelatin. Now we wait fo the trolls to argue
How is it boring seeing the crazy temporary cavity they cab make? I think gel is lretty cool. But the meat target is great too!
God bless you 🙏 and your family my family is keeping your family in our thoughts and prayers 🙏
I'm just picturing Mr. Harrell at the CostCo checkout with a cart full of ribs, oranges, and 2L soda... Cashier says "Oh, another ammo review coming?" ;-)
Seriously though, thanks for the info! Great review.
A BBQ at his place probably has a lot of pork with holes in it
Top comment!!
Hate to burst your bubble, but Costco does not sell bargain brand soda. Lots of ribs and oranges though.
Ash Green have you seen his Irish Wolf Hound?
Hey you can still smoke them ribs!
I have personally examined two 380 slugs taken from two different people killed by them. One was a Fed HP and the other a Rem Golden saber. Neither expanded a lot, but some at least, but penetration was fully across the thoracic cavity from side to side......after going through the side of a bus with one victim and through a thin metal partition and an arm before hitting the second victim's body and crossing it side to side completely. Both victim's were full grown adults. One shot each. That changed my opinion a bit on the 380 for SD use.
Many scoff at .380, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end, especially at what the FBI considers common engagement ranges.
@@BandAid350z Me either. After what I saw, especially not.
It's interesting because you can look at a .380 or even something smaller like a .22 and think "man, there's no way that tiny little thing can do any damage." It's hard to visualize the incredible amount of energy that a bullet carries with it and the amount of damage that energy does on impact. I agree .380 is fully capable of deep penetration into the human body (or even as you described, fully capable of a thru-and-thru impact)
.380 ACP is 9mm short, only a moron would think it's not effective. Especially with the advancements in ammunition.
Consider, two rounds from a 380 was the first domino that created the world we have today. The Archduke and his wife didn't even make it to hospital. DOA
Thank you paul for demonstrating that an extra inch on the right tool can make a big difference!
Always like watching Paul's videos. Rip Sir
That's why I carry the Underwood Xtreme Defender when I carry .380 acp. I don't have to worry about denim clogging it up, or not enough velocity to get expansion! Also, it has more velocity than the other ones, and only it and Precision One .380 pass the 12 to 18" FBI standards in the ballistic gel test! Great video! I couldn't wait to see what it would do to the meat target!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲
And now 2/24. We have the new federal 99 grain hydra shock Deep which goes 14 inches expanding.44 in gel vs the older HST 99. Grain that gets 10 inches. In gel. So I’m going to load my G 42 With. Alternating 63 gr Extreme Defender and 99 gr Federal Hydra shock Deep. Losing the Federal 99 gr HST in 380.
HST 124 gr +p in 9mm is great. I alternate that with 68 gr or 90 gr Extreme Defender underwood +P.
Paul, you are a treasure for your focus. No bias, you accept the results as they appear, and you consistently use a control variable. Thank you for what you do.
I find your many-many videos to be extremely (pun intended) comprehensive sir. Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom of ballistic applications with RUclips. I've learned a lot over the years looking at your very informative videos. Be well sir. By the way, over the years, I've settled on using only extremely hot Underwood ammunition in my tools of choice, and to-date I've had no feeding issues, or any negative issues of any kind with these rounds.....great stuff. Take care sir.
That’s a great comment I’m trying, begging, for him to do a test using +P+ , in a 9mm. After doing some research to see if it would be safe I decided to get a box and shoot a few rounds through it. Apparently, there were some issues with feeding incorrectly and not going into battery. I think that was because of the odd shape of the round, and as I recall, it blew up a couple of the 9mm’s. My weapon of choice is a Springfield Armory XD subcompact with a 3 inch barrel. The accuracy was superb, but the recoil was unlike anything I can really describe, and I had no issues whatsoever. Have you by chance shot a Luger +P+ 90 fps underwood in a nine? Underwood claims that the extreme defender item 817 has 1550fps. I find that hard to believe. And I realize I would have less muzzle velocity, because of the 3 inch barrel.
If you get a minute, please respond. And have a nice day.
@@MrA.51 Hello Mr. A, how are you sir, I hope and trust that all is well my brother. I generally carry a Gen 4 Glock 20 with a KKM barrel, and I've replaced the stock spring (I think that it was originally a 17 pound spring) with a 22 pound spring...and I also carry a Gen 4 Glock 32 with a stock 18 pound spring along with a KKM barrel. I only use all types of Underwood ammunition in both of my Glocks. What I found over the years, is that the Underwood rounds shoot extremely....[extremely] hot, and have full power...AND, they shoot extremely clean compared to other rounds...I've found this round to be an outstanding, and a consistently well feeding round. I, in the beginning shot all types of ammunition in both of these guns like the Hornady Critical Defense, Buffalo Bore (this one is wonderfully hot, but very-very dirty to shoot), Corbon (this one is also a very nice round), but when I discovered Underwood Ammunition many years ago, I found it to be just what I was looking for. I do not think that I have ever shot a +P+ 9×19mm round in any gun. I'm sorry that I don't have any experience using your tool of choice, I've shot 9mm in my Heckler & Koch VP9, but it was not rated +P+. I must admit that I am now curious to try this +P+ out. I have no complaints with either of my regularly carried tools though...and I've put many-many-many rounds through both of these tools. I wish that I could have been of more help to you Mr A...take care, and best of luck to you on your information journey my brother.
Over 700K subscribers. Way to go Paul! You've earned each and everyone of us.
YES- but 100K ++ others that come in to Paul's Vids daily-------------
I like how he picked up the safety glasses just before shooting the meat target: "Yup, I use PPE" without saying a word or needing to show anything more than that.
because it is RUclips. If the cupcakes didn't see it it didn't happen. Same as a Freaking safety check. Like they are in danger or something.
Love me some Paul Harrel. Thanks for another great informative and entertaining video!!
I use this stuff in my .32 Seecamp.
It is by far the best round I've used, for such a small gun. A hollow point will never expand out of that gun, so it's just adding more surface area onto the tip of the projectile, lowering the amount of penetration.
The XDs have consistently acbieved much greater penetration(no worries on over penetration) than any of the HPs I have tested out of it.
The Seecamp always recommended the use of Winchester Silvertip. It’s good knowing other ammunition is available to use in this fine little pistol.
@@boostimalaka1 I have used Hornady XTP, CorBon JHP, Fiocchi SJHP and Underwood XD.
All ran without Issue. But the Underwood was by far the best performing, as far as accuracy and damage were concerned.
Most of my testing is can and bottle plinking. When the others hit, they poked clean holes.
The Underwood would leave much larger "wounds", that were fairly mangled.
Also, it was the only round that I could reliably(close to 100%) get hits on target with. 5-7 yards, shooting at 12oz cans and 16.9oz bottles.
My recyclables never make it to the recycling place, without looking like they went through a paper shredder.
Fill em with water and start shootin! Haha.
Broke my seacamp with fmj… since then I stick with silver tip.
A perfect example of why we need to test the ammo we use in our own firearm(s).
Just because it says 'self defense ammo' or whatever on the box, do not trust it to perform as expected in your own firearm.
Educational and Entertaining as always, thanks Paul.
LCP with Extreme Defender is the right combo for me. The only gun I can conceal easily and the ammo that will penetrate in summer and winter.
Very interesting Paul, Reaffirms what I've long thought about 380 ammo. In that bullet design and velocity can be critical factors when it comes to effectiveness on target,
particularly in this caliber!
For me and I imagine others, in our .380s we give up expansion and some wound channel size for the more reliable penetration and sometimes straighter penetration (in gel anyway) of non-expanding bullets. That is a gamble like all compromises/choices in guns and ammo.
Check out a video series called "Ammo Quest .380
ruclips.net/p/PLgNSGOEQko_MjOCGyqlMTiM2njdQQRbdg
Pocket protection? Not always a wrong concept?
I just watched all your other .380 videos (after buying a LCP Max) and I was really hoping to see this one in the meat target. Thank You!!!! Much better info (for me) than the gel tests on other channels. You are the man.
That is a pretty awesome example, what is shows me is that .380 isn’t all that poop less under the right conditions and fired from the right pistola! Thanks again for opening my eyes!
Please keep these coming. I find your work consistently educational. However, I would like to add one request .You have pointed out that some jurisdictions do not allow for hollowpoint ammunition. If you could you include simple FMJ ammo in more of these comparisons I think they might be even more useful.
Good point. We have done a few presentations that feature a demo of FMJ vs. the meat target, but including them in these ammo comparisons may be helpful.
TBF the ammo tested here (the extreme defender) are non HP and non expanding, thus should be legal in those areas you speak of
@@williamstevens4172 If I remember correctly in some jurisdictions “non-traditional” type projectiles are banned and in a few instances by name specifically. As it stands, a comparison between FMJ and Underwood type ammo would be illuminating.
@@BandAid350z damn, I wasn't aware that such areas were that specific!
In that instance it would be good data then
@@williamstevens4172 one only needs to look at how upset places are with lead ammunition to see just how obtrusive laws can be.
Thank you, and the entire crew, for another exemplary presentation.
one of my favorite paul harrell videos i cant say it enough you have taught me a lot about firearms in the last 10 years you will always be the goat!!!
You'll forever be one of my favorites, Paul. I still rewatch last year's "thanksgiving special."
I enjoy your repetitive, over analysis, but still quite informative deliveries and presentations. :)
…that “ad” made my morning Paul, keep up the videos and great content.
I love this channel. It informs my decision making regarding firearms. Well done, Paul.
If I recall correctly, the selling point of the fluted type 380 acp ammo is the ability to penetrate heavy or thick outer garments worn in the winter and still do damage to tissue. The flutes are supposed to cause damage by hydrailic shock. Expansion is not expected or desired.
I believe the secondary effect of the fluted bullet is to induce tumbling.
@@jamesmartin7282 I've never seen them tumble.
My daughter has a HiPoint pistol in Muddy Girl camo loaded with Federal Punch .380 ammunition, for when she has to be home by herself. That 380 runs great and my daughter loves burning a few boxes of ammo through it on a weekend. The punch ammo rips a pork roast to shreds.
Perhaps you could send Paul a box of them?
@@workingguy-OU812 I will, if I can pry a box out of my daughter's hands and then I'll be stuck with replacing them.
@@adampatterson707 Then join Paul's Patron and help contribute a buck....
Punch may be a good choice for .380. I believe they use a softer bullet that isn't designed with shooting through barriers in mind. Might make them more likely to expand at .380 velocities.
@@BrockOBauma All I know is this, if they will work the same on a intruder as they do on that pork roast, it'll be a extremely bad day for the intruder.
The meme in the beginning got an instant thumbs up. Great vid as always Paul!
Goes back to what you've said in the past. Test your gun with the ammunition you intend to use and make sure it expands properly, doesn't cause malfunctions, and shoots accurately from your gun. Even though the guns may be the same caliber, brand and model doesn't mean it will have the same results you got. The 380 acp and 45 acp seem to be designed for fmj round nose bullets. Both these calibers were developed in late 1800s and early 1900s even early 9mm had similar issues with low pressure bullets not going fast enough to expand or penatrate as you talked about in the Miami Dade fbi shooting. Bullets have gotten much better for 9mm and have improved for 380 and 45 but you really need to test the ammunition for your own guns
Thank you. All I run through my .380 is fmj round nose and I always feel like a kid out of place in class when everyone else is talking about Hornady CD and Fiochi and Golden Saber hollow point. Doesn't any one else just rely on good old fashioned ball ammo? It's great when you know in the wintertime people wearing big heavy coats that the ball ammo isn't going to mind it a bit.
My every day carry is a Glock 42 with Trijicon HD XR Night Sights and a 9 round ETS magazine fitted with an XGRIP for a full three-finger grip. I load the magazine with 8 rounds maximum, plus one in the chamber, to ensure 100% reliability. Ammo of choice is Underwood Extreme Penetrator 380+P. This combination has very little recoil, is very controllable and EXTREMELY accurate! I carry it 24/7 in a DeSantis Nemesis Pocket Holster and honestly it's so light and compact that I forget it's there. The best self-defense pistol is the one you never leave home without!
These Poptarts intros keep getting better and better
he's what you call a professional
I carry the Underwood Extreme Defender in my Glock 43X and love it to death. I have a Bersa 380 CC as my truck gun and load it with the Extreme Penetrator 90 grain. But it's expensive as hell these days so it will get replaced with the Extreme Defender, which is less expensive and easier to find. I like how powerful and barrier blind they are while still producing results like a hollow point.
What a timely video. I was just at the range this weekend to chrono my test handloads of this 68gn xtreme defender in my 380s. My 380s have a 4.25" and 3.8" barrel lengths and i was getting 1250-1300+ fps from those. That is 255 fpe at the muzzle, which is pretty impressive compared to the energies from those micro 380s you were testing.
My 100 gn FMJs are around 1000 fps from those guns. I know 380 has the reputation for being anemic, but it seems to me that the reputation is entirely because of the micro pistols with inadequate barrel length and the "budget" hollow point ammo that fails to expand at the
Check out G9 Defense 124g +p Woodsman for what seems to be a great penetrating round and the greatest wound cavity expansion available for 9mm.
I carry these in a Glock 34 anytime I go in to the eastern US woods.
The problem is nobody gives a damn what a 380 does out of a 4 inch gun.If you going with a weapon that size,there is literally no reason not to bump it on up to 9mm.The ONLY reason anybody is carrying a 380 is.because of the convenience and concealability of these little micros like lcp,sw bodyguard,taurus tcp etc.In which case these extreme defenders or extreme penetrators are the most effective rounds for them by far.
I've purchased a few types if underwood ammunition and always been pleased with its performance. Underwood extreme penetrators is what I put in my carry when I'm out in bear country.
what do you carry when your in jogger country?
I’m glad you did this video. I watched with “extreme” interest with your test on its sister cartridge. I was curious which would be better in this caliber. Based on all of your tests the Xtreme Penetrator seems to be the best option if I use a ..380 for self defense.
Xtreme Penetrator is a different projectile from Lehigh, which is generally meant for hunting. In comparison, Xtreme Defender will create larger wound cavities and is less likely to over-penetrate.
It will also over Penetrate. I carry the XD so all energy is expended inside the target- not whatever is behind the target.
Ditto what ars3nic and codiddley said. The Xtreme Penetrator doesn't meet one of my most important criteria for self-defense due to over-penetration. It was not designed as a self-defence projectile. I spent the better part of 6 months testing & researching .380 ACP self-defense ammo, which included watching every review I could find. For me, the Underwood XD tested here was the clear choice in a Bersa Thunder 380.
There were ZERO failures in ammo handling (failure to feed, eject, or fire), and accuracy was excellent. In my opinion, Underwood's quality control is superb.
FYI, of all the JHP rounds I tested, Hornady's FTX (90 gr.) was the best, being the closest to barrier blind after the XD, which is _completely_ barrier blind. The FTX is a lot slower than the XD, but still had consistently excellent expansion. However, the physics of the XD's conversion of rotational energy to transverse shock makes for significantly greater termnal effect, with a larger wound channel. Nothing else comes close.
I use the Underwood Xtreme Penetrator in my 380, 90 gr, standard pressure, 979 fps, 194 ft-lbf.
The other respondents are quoting marketing materials and making general remarks - and have obviously not seen Paul's video that you're referring to, they can be safely ignored. If you go with the Penetrators, you'll be fine.
The penetrator is a bit too much pentration imo. These hit the sweet spot on penetration. And these get more cavitation. If I'm not mistaken these hit about 16" on a FBI gel test and the penetrators are over 24". I really think the gel test is important to check out with these rounds because the meat target doesn't effectively show the differences with such a low powered round
One of the things I admire about you is the serious, rational and argumentative nature of your character. It gives a guy peace of mind to listen to another fellow man speak about something in a serious and coherent manner.
RIP Paul... watching in 2024 Sept.😢
Excellent educated comparison! Thankyou Paul!
A few years back I got a hold of some hand loaded 380 acp. It was loaded with Starfire hollow points I believe of PMC design but they seem to be loaded a little bit hot. Not sure what the specifications were but you could definitely tell a noise and recoil difference between that and factory ammo. But we got pretty good expansion out of it not sure how much of that was due to it being a hot round. I know 380 expansion seems to be a contentious point at best. About like anything else too really some things function better than others out of different barrel lengths. Another excellent video though
Thank you much Paul. I have been looking at this load for my wife's carry
“for those who haven’t seen it before…” gets me every time 🤣
Like who’s been in a cave or on the moon the past several years?
PH is legendary. 👏🏻
Where these xtreme defender helps is at .32 ACP where you are lucky to get any hollow point expansion regardless of barrel length. Using Underwood .32 ACP +P with the xtreme defender bullet, it might be a viable defense round for a larger group of users.
I don't know how you do it Paul, but your uploads are always relevant for my current projects. I just bought a PPK/S last week. I'm starting with cast bullet loads but want to get regular defense loads.
I normally carry a glock 19, but wanted something with a slimer profile for certain days, and the PPK was a pretty good deal.
Those PopTarts commercials have me cracking up! They are great! The music choice is spot on also!
For years I've carried my Bersa Thunder .380 ACP CC, loaded with 90 gr Federal Hydra-shok JHP. I have gotten reliable expansion and decent penetration with this loading out of this gun.
That is the way to do it, test and verify how your ammunition works with your gun.
How were you able test penetration and expansion?
@@Nickrioblanco1 using a variety of medium (wood, meat, fruit, etc.) and ballistic gelatin, you could come to your own conclusions on what is decent or reliable. For me in my gun, I found the results favorable.
That’s the exact same ammo I use in my 380 Bersa.🍻
Federal Hydra-Shock has been good for me in pretty much every platform I’ve tried. Going in blind on an ammo choice for a new pistol, I’d pick that. Then likely Remington or Hornady. But as the great Papa Hotel says, “not all conditions are the same and one firearm and ammo combination may vary.”
Happy new year, good to see you again.
In the next eppasode- "How many Pop-Tarts does it take to stop a 380acp"
Just bought a kahr 380 had to Chanel Paul's wisdom for the right pocket amao Rip miss you bud
Hey Paul. I've been wondering about this one for some time. My concern is if it's too light to penetrate. Now I'm gonna watch and find out. Thanks!
Generally projectile velocity has a greater impact on penetration in soft tissue than mass, so a light and fast bullet like the xtreme defender should actually penetrate deeper.
you be the judge
Oi! This is why I carry the Black Hills Honey Badger in my 380 ACP & 38 Spl. Thanks for the share!!
I would say more damage on the oranges with the defender. Looks significant. This video helps confirm my suspicion that my.357 air rifle which has very similar ballistics to a .380 pistol actually does more damage. I have shot gel and a meat target. and despite the near identical fpe the nature of the airgun ammo(pure lead) compared to firearm ammo produced more damage on my ''pig target''. That was especially true with the steel ball bearing ballistic tipped hp ammo. That same ammo did well in gel too. With a 4'' separate wound channel branching off the main 10 1//2 inch overall channel. The second channel was the ball bearing. The rest of the projectile achieved good expansion. This is pretty ideal for suppressed hunting. this particular Airgun comes with a suppressor and no special permission or fee needed.. Feral swine and yotes are usually the game hunted. Many times additional eradication is achieved because of how quiet the weapon is. For example the other pigs just don't run off or come back quickly and think their buddy was just having a stroke.
What brand/model air rifle?
it really doesn't have similar ballistics.
@@James28R It does. for example 93 grains 854 fps 150 fpe. Spot on .380 ballistics. I don't know what your basing your comment on. Thanks for the interest and comment though
@@warrenharrison9490 FX impact
Thanks, Paul. You have confirmed precisely what I was expecting from the .380 Underwood Extreme Defender.
I have them in my .357 Sig and the G9 in my S&W .40 M&P. I appreciate the way you present all the facts.
Hey Paul, I love your videos. One suggestion, when you show the “close ups” of the fired rounds. It would be helpful if you held them close enough to actually see them.
Thanks for another great review. One of the tested benefits from the Underwood extreme defender is that it is somewhat "barrier blind" which allows it to get past the issue of clogging a hollow point with clothes (I know that's why you use leather and cloth layers in front on the meat target) or drywall or glass such as a windshield etc.- many of the things that can get between you and the bad guy. This will still have the desired "hydrostatic shock" effect that the hollow points are designed to do with their expansion. Also some guns are finicky with hollow points feeding from the magazine such as getting caught on the feed ramp on the barrel so every ammo should be checked for function in your specific gun. Plus, the flutes on the Underwood ammo help prevent over penetration as you saw in your test DESPITE the added velocity and foot pounds of energy. Better energy dump in my most humble opinion.
I use the Underworld Xtreme Defender in my .380s for pocket carry, mostly during summer in shorts.
They performed well in my Sig P238 and Ruger LCP II in my testing.
Very reliable penetration and seemed like plenty of energy dump.
I appreciate your time you put a lot of energy into this video. Thank you.
Paul, since you seem to be a fan of 38 super, I was wondering if you would weigh in on this: supposedly, early Colt 38 super 1911s had accuracy issues. I have yet to find any proof or supporting documentation of this.
The given reason for this accuracy problem was that early 38 super barrels headspaced on the rim rather than the case mouth. The implication here is that these barrels would have excessive headspace if you are measuring with the case mouth. This issue was supposedly fixed sometime in the 1970s, when Colt started measuring headspace from the case mouth and making barrels to that standard.
The problem with this reasoning is that General Julain Hatcher has done tests that show excessive headspace doesn't contribute to bad accuracy. His tests were done with 1903 Springfields and showed no change in accuracy at normal and excessive headspace. However, it is only my assumption that these results translate to to 1911s.
I have no experience with 38 Supers being inaccurate. Mine have always been extremely accurate. I did read John Taffin writing about this many years ago. He had always wanted a super and finally purchased one. He couldn’t get it to shoot well. Replaced the barrel, and it immediately became an extremely accurate pistol. So, there maybe something to it, but any problem that may have once existed, no longer does.
I have no experience with "early" .38 super. Mine was made in 2011.
I’ve been tinkering around with a bit of extreme defender lately but It’s been 44 special extreme defender. I do a couple videos about it. Thanks for doing this video. Me and all of my friends very much enjoyed watching it.
I love watching your demos with the meat target. Entertaining and informative. Out of curiosity, what do you do with the leftover pork ribs?
It's usually fed to animals.
@@PaulHarrell 2 legged or 4 ?
Ok, the first Pop Tarts ad was cute. It was amusing. This time, it was unexpected and downright funny. Props for sticking with the bit.
Love me some deer season pop-tarts, sitting in the stand 👍
Seeing that the Underwood ammo performed very well....and wasn't so "barrel length/velocity" dependent...I'm left confused at Paul's somewhat cool repsonse saying it's a personal choice.....but that this ammo "wasn't for him" ( 17:41 - 18:22) . Hmm......why? Would have liked a more elaborate explanation on that.
I was happy to see that the bullets were stopped by t-shirt or first layer of fleece. The tissue damage was very unimpressive to me, though. So I don’t see myself carrying a .380 for defense. Still, it’s better than a harsh word.
Or a sharp stick
Paul,
Again another well done comparison on .380 acp
My wife an I carry this caliber despite its less than ideal performance.
The Bodyguard .380 just slips in our pockets so easily.
I very much appreciate your "meat target" test media.
Sure seems like very small holes with little damage.
Our 9mm and .45 pistols are looking like a way better choice overall.
You have taught me/us so much of the years...
great work !
I can’t wait for him to test 30 super carry I hope it doesn’t disappoint
It's basically just slightly worse than ok 9mm ammo. It's nothing special or fancy. Just decent little bullets.
IMHO It's a NICHE CAL. don't think it ill catch on with the 9mm so close if not better in comparison.
Definitely curious, but I'm fine with either my 9 or 380 everyday carry, yes both..... hard to find 380 ammo, and harder to spend the extra for the ammo over 9mm, but skeptically intrigued 🤔... it's going to be a hard sell for Federal for sure
@@JJoker69 I mean i don't see 30 super replacing anything, but it might be a great choice for like ankle backup gun or people with incredibly small hands or something...it has a place just not a very big one... the slight capacity increase is neat and all, but if you cant get it done with 10 i doubt 2 more are going to help you.
30SC is a solution looking for a problem, but it's not likely to find one. I don't hate the idea, but the one or two extra rounds isn't going to be enough of an advantage for 9mm people to invest in a completely new caliber for essentially the same performance (supposedly). As for replacing 380, the super high chamber pressures of 30SC probably eliminates it from the pocket pistol category where it actually might have made enough of a capacity and weight difference to matter.
Thanks for another great presentation, Paul!
After watching several 380 comparison videos with sub compact guns, I decided to keep Lehigh Xtreme penetrators in my LCP Custom. They function in my gun reliably, which is the most important thing to me.
Thanks for the video. Real world info for many pocket carry folks in this day and age.
Paul Harrell is my spirit animal.
Paul , loved the video on the .380 ACP rounds. My question is how many boxes of pop tarts does it take to replace 500 rated Ballistic armor if taped to my chest ? Also how fast would I need to run to escape a hungry black bear with a 25 yard head start going after my taped to the chest pop tarts ?
I love the freaking pop tart pics in the last 2 videos LOL. Anothe great comparison video from the crew. Thanks!
I've never owned a .380 pistol, and after watching this presentation I never will. Thank you.
I remember when I thought the same about every other pistol caliber compared to 10mm.
I'm glad that I was able to see my ignorance on the subject and change my view based on actual facts.
Obviously you haven't.
I have carried a 5.25" .357 (with loads chosen for the day's circumstances) for the last six years religiously. I recently got an LCP Max because the LCP makes a better pajama and pocket gun. When not in pajama type clothing I carry both. The LCP in a pocket gives me a second draw that could be, depending on circumstances a better option over the more complex and somewhat slower shoulder rig draw of the .357. I live on a mountain side in WY with grizzlies and other predators where the .357 can make more sense than it would in an urban environment, but I still carry it when I go to town. I am just better with it than my other guns and am irrationally romantic.
@@TheHandHistoryVault clearly you still have some ignorance to deal with, .380 is isn't the best option for everyone. I dont have one either and probably never will, 9mm is the smallest I care to have with the exception of a few 22lr pistols for plinking with my kids. My wife however has 380 and 9mm, she doesn't want anything bigger. We have different perspectives, thats the reality of your ignorance that you think others need to see it the same as you.
Thank you for putting in a plug for range cleaning. I always try to leave the range cleaner than I found it. If everyone else did as well, we would have some squeaky-clean ranges. And thank you for this test. I may have to reconsider my wife's carry ammo.
Would it be possible to make a playlist with all your .380 ammo test videos? There was one where you tested federal .380 HST but I can't find it
The pucture Meme in the beginning will be hanging on my wall tonight Paul.
I absoutley live you. The content and the way you enlighten all of us. Thank you for being here, and for teaching us there is a better way.
.380 seems like a difficult caliber to pull the ole chrono with a longer barrel trick. Maybe they got a ridiculous Mac 11 16” carbine
The Hi-Point...thing...exists
@@jimmyrustler5801 it comes in .380? Gross
@@Matt-xc6sp you could probably convert a PC Carbine to .380 with a bit of knowledge or access to a good gunsmith
Been banned on RUclips. Back and re subscribed to you. I’m so glad RUclips hasn’t banned you and you’re still posting content. I love you Paul. One of the best RUclips channels I’ve ever seen.
Ruger 380 max has made this caliber a good choice for EDC as far as I am concerned. 12 rounds in 10.6 oz. Is a game changer.
The G42 makes a helluva difference in the handling and accuracy of the .380 and I love mine!!
My G42 has been my EDC for years. I will have to look into the Underwood rounds.