The Genius Design of Halo's Weapons | Game/Show | PBS Digital Studios
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
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For over a decade Halo has been a force in the competitive shooter genre. Why? Well the simple answer is the one staring you in the face: THE GUNS!! The slightly longer answer: Halo's Guns are balanced based on the principles of the school yard game rock, paper, scissors, but with a special covenant kicker that gives the game a surprising strategic complexity. Do you think Bungie's intentions of perfect balance matched up with the realities of the game? Let us know.
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Assets:
00:33
• Halo 3 Red vs Blue - G...
:44
• Master Chief vs Leonid...
:59
• EPIC HALO LAN PARTY
2:06
• Newport Vineyards Grap...
2:09
• London's Temple to Fin...
2:10
• The Sprint: Episode 2 ...
2:30
• Rock, Paper, Scissors ...
2:59
• Halo matrix
3:04
• Halo 2 vs Halo 3 vs Ha...
4:54
• Video
5:09
• Winning at Rock Paper ...
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/ @jimmydali2
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• Video
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Hosted by Jamin Warren (@jaminwar)
See more on games and culture on his site: www.killscreendaily.com
Made by Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
And regarding my glasses:
• Has League of Legends ...
It does my heart good to see old Red vs. Blue clips.
i miss halo 3
Dan .B What does that even mean?
those were done over 10 years ago
Cpt Solo ? its still there
I've grown up playing Halo all my life and I can say this much. The weapons are only a third of the equation here. There is a holy trinity in Halo and that is Guns/Maps/Movement.
The guns facilitate the players to interact with their enemies and their surroundings (Rocket Jumps, etc.) They are very good. But they would mean little on poorly-designed maps, which Halo has very few of, if any. Halo's maps have always been a stand-out feature of the Halo games but neither of those features is as important as the movement.
At any one time Halo is encouraging the player to move around the map. The weapons spawn in specific locations and you often spawn with very low-tier weapons in comparison to the ones that spawn. Because of that the player is, more often than not, always moving, if not to get to the weapons then to at least stay a moving target for enemy snipers.
That movement itself though is just sublime. Halo games have always tried to straddle the line of moving just fast enough to get where you need to be going but not so fast that it forces near-endless uptime in the gameplay (one of Halo 4's biggest problems and something I'm glad to see 343 actually picked up on in the Halo 5 Beta.)
In addition to the smoothness and speed of basic movement your jump ability allows you to platform your way throughout the levels with ease. In addition to that there are grenade-jumping, grav-lifts, jetpacks, man-cannons, and vehicles (the hybrid between weapons and movement).
Halo allows you to have fantastic mobility the moment you hit the ground and you hit that ground running. Your shield allows you to usually be fast enough to evade your enemies and engage them in a situation that favours the weapons that you have, adding that movement into the basic combat strategy. Just like in Super Mario 64 the simple act of controlling your Avatar in the game-world is effortlessly enjoyable.
Also, that shield adds so many other dimensions to Halo's gameplay on a base level. It allows larger, open areas since you're less dependent upon cover. It allows for multiple kinds of weapons as mentioned in the video, and it allows greater drop heights and penalties for dropping from them without necessarily dying, but not such great penalties that would discourage you from moving around the level more freely, thus allowing more verticality and exploitation of that third dimension.
Sorry for going on so long about all of this but holy hell I could write a paper on how all of these seemingly small things add so much to Halo's gameplay from the Plasma Pistol's effortless disabling of enemy vehicles to you then hijacking those vehicles off of them.
To say the weapons are the key to Halo's success really does draw focus away from how pretty much every other element of the game is also on top form to the point where Halo would be a little less Halo without them.
(for the record, I don't give a damn about Halo, so I'll just respond to the end)
You see, the same way you call out RE5 for its shallow research and disregard for historical context... you were making the exact same errors in your last video, and that's a major part of why people got upset. You didn't explain any of this about RE5, only that "it's racist because you shoot black zombies with a white dude". Or stating how "all the heroes in Zelda: OoT are white", when a major part of OoT is having allies and a sage from every race/nation in Hyrule, including gerudos btw (Nabooru? forgot her?). You can't talk about a sensitive material like this, and then make generalizing, heavy statements (some of which are factually wrong) and expect people to be all fine with it.
In the last video, he touched on why he thought RE5 was racist. It's only a ~10 min. video and there can only be so much depth in such a broad subject. Which statements were factually wrong?
The thing is, the Gerudos in Ocarina of Time are assumed to be the villains by default, and the ones who are good are special exceptions. It's the same internal logic that's used to justify the racist canard "you are a credit to your race."
I love Ocarina of Time and I won't deny that it's one of the best games ever made, but that doesn't mean that it's treatment of things like race and gender doesn't have issues. I still think it's dumb how they had Sheik get kidnapped the _moment_ she revealed herself to be female by showing her true identity, for example.
Mark Cidade His summarization of OoT for one. Yes, he has to squeeze everything into 10min. but the problem with these videos is they end up taking things out of context to use as an example of where/why there's a problem.It doesn't help that in _this_ video Jamin also claims his viewers don't understand and don't even _want_ to talk about this subject when people disagree with him. By that he's insinuating that he's right and we're wrong but just don't want to hear it, which is just plain rude and insulting.
ZombieBarioth "By that he's insinuating that he's right and we're wrong but just don't want to hear it"
Why are you associating with who Jamin was really talking about, which were the people spouting racial slurs? People who were having civil discussions of this game in the comments last week are obviously not the people he's pointing out.
Sometimes it's a damn crap shoot what commenters will bite on. For each complaint about RE5 or the Gerudo, how many examples flew by that you completely accepted? How is he to predict which ones people will trip over?
Ross Llewallyn
When I watched the video the comment section was actually pretty civil. Perhaps things changed since then, but my point still stands. The elaboration of his point applies to both sides, not just the one.
As for your second point, its not about predicting which ones people will trip over, its about not taking things out of context, period.
Doing so hurts both your argument and credibility. Either you come off as ignorant to the subject your criticizing, or pulling a fast one to support a one-sided argument.
I totally agree on the fact that the older halo games are similar to strategy games. I'm not that good of an fps gamer because I lack that twitch response to kill the enemy, Halo makes me think strategically because the game actually gives me time to think due to the heavy shields and slow time it takes to kill someone. You also remember important things about the weapons that give you an advantage when strategizing how you will take down opponents
Ex1: 3 shots with the battle rifle takes down shields, 4th shot to the head is a kill
Ex2: 3 shots with the plasma rifle takes down shields, but doesn't do much damage after shields are down, so your best bet is to melee after the 3 shots.
The battle rifle will do better at long range, but the speed of plasma rifle to take down shields and melee will make it better at close range
or you can just noob combo
BR for life!!!!
Christian Alvarez Or you could have a soul... >8C
(But yeah, noob combo kicks ass.)
Too bad 343 didn't get the memo.
Hopefully we're past the point of the post-release hate, so I have to point out, that's exactly what's great about Destiny PVP too. The time-to-kill is high, and so much can happen after the first shot is fired. Unlike literally every other shooter at the moment.
Grif: Simmons. Get the warthog.
Simmons: Heh, you mean the puma
The guns look like ships and the ship's looked like guns. :)
PBS Game/Show Your followup on RE5 made your argument make complete sense. It's a darn shame that you didn't make it in the original video :). I recommend linking to this followup in that video. But then I suppose that's kinda messy.
Totally agree with you man. I was fuming when I saw the original video.
Now that Jamin expressed these ideas, topic is clear and open a good conversation.
Isles of Scion I think the issue there is he wasn't expecting such a knee-jerk volatile reaction THOUGH I think he definitely could have predicted it and avoided a lot of that. But a lot of PBSgameshow episodes in general are paced to present an idea and move onto the next one very quickly, so its not surprising he just said it and moved on to the next thought.
He was probably expecting the 'gamer culture' audience, or at least those among whom who happen to be subscribed to a channel like this, to posses a level of cultural criticism-literacy that's comparable to that of the general populations of countries (like, basically the whole of what is called the "the western world") where cultural criticism is a fairly common thing. It's funny how provincial the culture surrounding video games can be in this way; it's like the latter half of the twentieth century never happened!
When I noticed Jamin didn't unpack the concept of systemic racism, I winced in anticipation of what was waiting in the comment section. I guess a lot of it was just internet trolldom, but this gap of knowledge is a consistent stumbling block for conversations attempting engage with video games as _cultural texts_ at all, let alone as possibly problematic texts.
ArsenalAgent
This idea of Systematic Racism urks me... something smells rotten about it... but I can agree with the arguements that Jamin offered even if I feel uncomfortable with some of the theory behind it.
DErde Yeah I agree. He probably wasn't expecting people to flip their lids.
For me I was annoyed only because it SOUNDED like he was saying "You shouldn't be killing black people regardless of context."
Which ok, if we were playing GTA 5 and for some reason all the npcs were black that would make me uncomfortable.
But Africans are largely dark skinned. Much like the europeans in RE4 (and Europeans in general) are largely light skinned. So at the time I was like "That's a dumb argument."
I hated RE5 for gameplay reasons so I never got very far. Had no idea they had spear chucking and other stuff like that. Once he brought that up I was like...
Oh...oh dear. Oh yeah, that's uncomfortable.
The Deus Ex one made me uncomfortable while I was playing it. Like I laughed when she was first introduced, then I realized they were being serious and cringed.
I'm pretty easy going. I usually assume ignorance before I assume malice. Sometimes a blue curtain is just a blue curtain. But I can also appreciate that sometimes it isn't and we should probably point it out when it isn't.
Like, again, that chick in Deus Ex. That was funny but simultaneously kinda fucked up. Funny along similar lines of Schadenfreude.
I've had a entertainement design course, and as an example for thumbnails drawings, they showed us the design process of Halo's weapons : the designers made 200+ thumbnails and finally choose 6 of them :p. Crazy graphic work.
I always said the Halo sniper was my favorite weapon in gaming, if used efficiently it can kill in one hit or even a average player can kill in two but whilst this happens it literally draws a line to your position to your position once fired therefore defeating the camper stereotype of snipers. Nuances like this make the guns in halo timeless and also the cause of frustration when tweeked. I also think you've missed the importance of grenades/ melee of Halo how these effect the balance of these weapons especially the ones you mentioned in the video.
Good point there- the fact that you can essentially combo the assault rifle with a well-placed grenade and a follow-up punch makes the gameplay far more than that of a traditional, aim-down-sights shooter. If you combine that with the rock-paper-cissors style of weapon balance, the gameplay almost reminds me of high-level fighting game play (especially super smash brothers) in it's execution. God, I could gush about Halo for hours.
I remember the first time someone shot the tank in a game and the shot ricocheted off it. Everyone in the room was laughing cause we knew what was going to happen next.
I feel that his commentary on the guns was a bit thin.
Uh..The Beam rifle is a better version of the Sniper. Limited only by your trigger finger, if you could control it properly you won't ever have to vent it.
Dan .B The SR can fire four shots off in a shorter time than the Beam can. So if you have a bunch of targets to quickly kill all at once, the SR is better. Also you can get more ammo for it.
Needler is an outlier?
Supercombine?
Hello?
I think what he meant was that it doesn't really fit with the UNSC Rock, Paper, Scissors system or the Covvie RPS System. Neither system utilizes the heat seeking or supercombine explosion kill. It's an odd tool that, if used correctly, beats both systems.
***** I liked the guns in Halo, but I disagree with his RPS interpretation of the guns, especially his examples in the case of Halo 3 considering how anemic the pistol was compared the other non-power weapons.
One important detail here is that you're only allowed to carry 2 guns, which was not very common until Halo. This balancing would never work so well if you could carry all the guns at the same time like in DOOM. At the same time this made the game a lot more easy to control on a controller, switching between only 2 weapons is a lot easier than between 8 like in DOOM or most 90's FPS. In fact, that's why I think Halo is so popular, because it was designed to be played on consoles, unlike most FPS of it's time.
Oh great, another "listen to me as I read wikipedia for halo page" game show
Thank you for clarifying your point Jamin. I didn't think that RE5 was racist because it made sense from the location the game too place in. But from the information you gave, yes I think the devs could have done a better job in that aspect.
I don't understand why it's so hard for main characters to be different ethnicities. You literally just have to change the race and call it a day. Instead of rebooting a game with new mechanics, change the race of the main character create a new IP.
Maybe there must have been a character script, and a design document that has been diverted as the game's production progressed. Who knows how old and how different the original idea was. Maybe it didn't originally take place in Africa when it was on paper or when it hit it's first month of production.
>I don't understand why it's so hard for main characters to be different ethnicities.
It is hard... and here is why..Yes they could have had a different race for the character, but it requires months or even a year of planning, production actually starts.Character designs take ALOT of time and money, and a single character could take months and millions of dollars to create.
If you gonna have a character of a different race you gonna have to do it right you can't just slap on a different shade of brown, tan, or whatever skin color on a guy who was originally meant to be something else, you have to create a background story, voice over, clothing, animation, modeling. Or else it's just gonna be nothing but a cheap mod.
And changing any part of the game will affect other parts of the game's production to varying extents. Thus making the production time and costs increase, and not by a little, I'm talking months of reworking and implementing the new character design.
Point that I'm making is that, having a well made character takes alot of time and planning, we can't assume that RE5 was intended to be exactly how it is when it was originally conceived, and if adjustments to replace the character with one that can satisfy the sensitive people, were even logical to make during mid production.
And to say that "just have to change the race and call it a day" is too reductive, because even if the main character was black the African (as a whole) stereotype still stands as an argument.
Demon AR36 Its actually for this reason I can't really say that RE5 is racist, it wasn't made with the intent to be and alot of the context is lost through history to a majority of people as too why it might be considered that way by accident. Its like the Tom and Jerry cartoons that were taken off air and are now being shown again. Enough generations have passed that people really don't see the big deal and just look at it as either shoddy writing or cutting corners to write a script. Which may also be looked at as a bad thing but as long as people eventually look back through history and get the context or try to work to some understanding I don't view this as really a problem, not in the first world anyway. I say that the creators should just work with whatever race they want to work with and stop trying to conform characters to set some sort of racial quota. I think that could be learned from alot of things in the entertainment industry though.
You literally just contradicted your second point with your first point with "maybe it didn't originally take place in Africa when it was on paper or when it hits its first month of production." So you're saying that its easier to change a whole environment of where the game takes place with all the characters that inhabit it than the main character? I know how the design process goes. The devs have to come up with back stories and concepts for the environments as well.
And I'm not saying, "Slap a darker toned skin on a character that's already modeled, textured, rigged and animated." I'm saying that from conception, they could easily change the race of the character while, quite possibly keep the same history. For example, instead of rebooting Tomb Raider and redesigning Laura Croft, the devs could have (from conception) had darker skin toned woman gave her dreads (or not even. There are black girls with straight hair) and gave her a different name. From there, they probably wouldn't even have to change the voice actor. And even if they did, it wouldn't matter because the voice actor would have to fit the character anyway. And as for the back story, it could be kept the same because those events could really happen to anyone.
Anthony Purington "So you're saying that its easier to change a whole environment of where the game takes place with all the characters that inhabit it than the main character?"
yes well actually it is, to change a location it really is "change the textures on the ground here and put these kinds of buildings there", very generally making it so that simple pictures is all that is needed to get a rough idea on what to aim for. Now for the main character, try and write a semi-believable story in a context that you have no clue what it is to be for this argument here RE5, change the character to that of a native born black African, can't be easily be done. Write a main protagonist that is a black female lesbian living in Newfoundland, i bet you couldn't do it, well making it realistic any ways, and finding people that can do this is really the largest hurdle to over come, I've been a writer since i was in the second grade and couldn't come close to being able to write that.
So really just trying to do a texture swap when it comes to a person really doesn't work and the game would have had even more stereotypes in it, not less because finding some one that can write all of that (of which would honestly be from experience) would be next to impossible to find.
ThatDamnedGamer1 I bet I could do it. But why does it have to lesbian character from Newfoundland? Why couldn't it be a an African American woman from Raccoon city?
Hi Jamin! I really liked how you addressed the comment section in this video and explained/clarified your side of the situation before responding to the comments. I really hope you could continue that in future videos that cover controversial subjects. By that I mean, before you go into the points of your argument for the video could you please tell the audience your side of the situation just as you did in this one? The large amount of backlash must have been a result of miscommunication.
I think we would appreciate if Anita did the same thing. To bad she never addresses her critics.
Demon AR36
That's a whole can of worms I do not want to get into. Anita is a whole different situation.
No, I think bigots will always find something to be bigots about when discussing social prejudice and bias.
Adrian Thoen
Which side of the coin of are talking about?
To me Anita is a bigot
Demon AR36
This sounds like it's about to go down the rabbit hole very rapidly, but I suppose I'll give you a chance.
Exactly how is someone criticising sexist themes in our media, as a fan of that media, a bigot?
the gun designs were also really great, all the guns have these iconic features and colors to help you tell them apart instantly
I think that the campaign of halo also was hugely influential in its success. It acts as both a training ground for the multilayer, with the grunts training your aim, the elites training you to kill players, and the hunters training you to survive for extended periods of time. Also, the story is amazing. I know people who got halo just because the story and campaign are so good.
Even after the last video I was kind of on the fence about whether or not RE5's representation of Africa was problematic or not, but after your elaborated on it some more I can really see what you mean. Thanks for digging a little deeper into that one.
I think it's important to add that one of the big reasons Halo's weapons became so balanced is because of constant iteration and playtesting. This was one of the first games that used the data they were collecting from players prior to launch (usually in a lab setting) to help them make informed decisions about their designs. It allowed them to come up with some really cool ideas, put those in the game, watch what players did to see if their experience matched that original design intent, and iterate off of that. This led to some smarter decisions and greater fine tuning than was possible for most games at the time.
Do you guys really read through all the comments for each video? I like to imagine that for topics like last week's, you probably restock the liquor cabinet before sitting down to dig through the comments section.
Wait, the plasma weapons stun? I thought they just tore through shields but did less damage to armor.
It doesn't stun a players ability to shoot or move like he made it sound. While it does cause a bright flash and an actual visual stun which when used well can really throw you off long enough for someone to kill you after your shields are down, they don't do what they do to vehicles. When you charge up and stun any vehicle with the plasma pistol, it causes an EMP blast which disables the vehicle entirely for a couple seconds, allowing you to aim a well thrown plasma grenade or rocket launch and blow it up, if it's becoming too much of a nuisance.
Oh, my bad. I misheard what he was saying :)
Latsu15 Covenant weapons were buffed up in Halo 4. Though, like every Halo game, the UNSC weapons were still the overall best.
I'd like to say that lead over plasma anytime
But scientifically, plasma should be beating the bullets every time
Science Shmience right?
I have major respect for you, man. I could never answer these remarks against you as calmly as you do.
Another reason that makes Halo my favorite shooter series ever (one that you already mentioned in a previous episode) is it's spectacular map design. To date I have yet to see any game have better map design than the Halo franchise. The maps have an excellent flow to them that lends tons of depth to the multiplayer.
The Halo CE pistol was so strong because it used armor piercing, explosive ammo. Read the manual guys
Max brx its the only one that matters to me, i live in halo bro xp
+Popsickle5 It was also overpowered because it was scoped. It was basically a sniper rifle that sacrificed raw power and a little range for bullet capacity and rate of fire.
I'm incredibly grateful to have a voice like yours speaking on a lot of the difficult issues arising in modern gaming. It's an incredible medium on the verge of becoming the cultural cornerstone it always promised it would be, and to have someone navigating these growing pains as gracefully as you do... thank you.
I'll be honest Jamin I didn't think you would tackle the criticism directly with sensible arguments like you did. I really appreciate you addressing the criticism, it was professional and honest. I haven't checked Gamergate but I think this is the kind of thing that they... actually anyone really would appreciate. I think cynicism has made it really hard to have a decent conversation on the internet
One thing that goes along with the gun balance of Halo is Time To Kill (TTK). Halo has a relatively long TTK compared to other modern shooters (COD, Battlefield, or Counter Strike). Having a longer TTK means your success in a 1v1 fight is more dependent on continuously expressing skill - as opposed to whoever gets the jump instantly wins. In Halo it is very possible for a skill player to get ambushed out of total surprise and still win the fight. Clever use of grenades, terrain, vertical and horizontal dodging, and weapon mechanics can really change the outcome of a fight from one player to another in the blink of an eye. It also makes teamwork very effective as two or three players taking down a single target is very effective. If the TTK were lower its possible that one player could blow through a few players in a single clip through a moment of luck or opportunity. TTK is also affected significantly in Halo by another skill express - accuracy. The difference between headshots and body shots increases TTK significantly on the sniper and pistol / battle rifle. So many opportunities to express skill = fun and challenging gameplay that's very rewarding.
I think that not just the Guns balance are what makes halo so great, but also other things. For example since Halo 2 you could be able to bord enemy vehicles and either take it over or destroy it. That and the EMP effect from the plasmapistol makes it possible for everyone to fight against a Banshee or even a Tank without needing a rocketlauncher that is rare enough or anything else that is by logic a hard hitting weapon. Same goes with the Ghosts. everyone can do a good killstreak with the ghost on most maps, but they are vulnerable enough to not camp around on one spot and also have to be carefull when they try to ram someone with the front or else someone will steal it from them.
next to the weapon balance and the system which gives everyone weapon a place and reason to be in the game, the possibilities to fight against vehicles without needing special weapons and with everyone having equal chances and opportunities to play, it makes the games so fantastic. In battlefield for example you need to play specific classes that have specific tools and items to fight against ground vehicles and air crafts which forces some players to play a class they don't want to play and equip tools they don't normally use, otherwise they have to rely on others to do the job and that does not always work.
I'm getting the feeling you never played Halo.
Did you play the originals ?
+Serious ElITE yes i played . But if you're talking about reach,4 and 5 those aren't balanced
Serious ElITE The classic Halos aren't balanced either...
+zRexx they are
+zRexx if you know how to use the gun
one of my favorite things about halos weapons was not only that they were balanced, but that each one filed a purpose. there weren't 20 different sniper rifles with varying stats, but rather, only one sniper rifle tat did exactly what you expected it to do. this made each weapon feel useful while still having, obvious, fleshed out weaknesses. what was also interesting was the fact that, for nearly all human weapons, there was a covenant version. the two variants, as a whole, filled a purpose. the covenant weapons reduced shields, and the human weapons reduced health.
50% of those Halo 5 deaths were probably me;-;
There are so many things that make Halo awesome. The guns and their balancing made them good for multiplayer, but something else that made it good for multiplayer was the lack of bullet drift when firing (that is to say your bullets would always fire within the HUD reticule and it would never expand) meaning that your actual skill at aiming was ALWAYS the reason you made the shot (unless you aim-botted you dirty dirty shizno!).
Aside from that what also made it an awesome game was both the single player story, coop in that story, and the levels in that story both visually and mechanically. All the story stuff was stuff we loved about Star Trek and Star Wars (and other awesome SciFi). The levels were fantastic (literally, both definitions) with their really amazing architecture and references to other scifi such as the Halo Ring being a tribute (or ripoff) of the Larry Niven's Ringworld.
The only regret I have is that I cannot play the rest of the games on my computer... because Microsoft is being stupid.
I've always found that the effectiveness of any given gun in Halo is determined more by the circumstance of the encounter than by whatever gun the opponent is using.
Amazing analysis, the videos about pure game design are my favourite! keep it up!
Pistol beats everything if you try hard enough. And didn't they remove the Dual Weilding after a certain point because it was like carrying rock and paper at the same time?
Also when I wake up I imagine I'm the tentacle from Day of the Tentacle
I was really disappointed with peoples behavior with last weeks episode. Like any video that attempts to discuss race or gender there seems to be a group of people who are quick to get angry and lash out rather then stop, think, and be part of the discussion. I see the same issue with PBS Idea channel, Scishow, Mental Floss, pretty much anywhere on youtube
because he got it wrong...
"Walk to work" Aaaah city folk :P
I always liked Halo's weapons. I got into the series, and the shooter genre, with Halo 2, so that's what I'll be referring to for most of this.
The pistol by itself was a fairly weak weapon, but dual-wielded, it became quite effective. The shots were medium range, accurate, and rapid. Not the most powerful, but you could fire off a lot of them.
The assault rifle was always my favorite weapon, because it automatically gave me the short, controlled bursts of powerful, long range fire, that could take down an enemy with a few well-placed headshots. It contrasted the battle rifle of Halo CE, which for most people acted like a spray-and-pray weapon, though with practice one could use it for similar short controlled bursts. And I did love the huge clip it had.
Speaking of huge clips, the SMG was rightly known as the bullet hose. Problem was that it was very weak. But, it made a good short range weapon that could pour substantial fire into an enemy while they fumbled around with sniper scopes. Especially dual-wielded. (really, who ever used just one of those?) Even if you miss a few shots while dodging, they all add up.
The shotgun was perfect for close range, fast kills. Where the SMGs add up the damage, shotguns finish the job with one or two hits.
The sniper rifle had long range accuracy, but you could only get off a few shots before reloading, so if you didn't get that headshot the first time, the target would probably get away.
The rocket launcher was of course the counter to any vehicles, and also the bane of players who didn't know where to get it, on maps without vehicles.
The Covenant weapons were always the wild cards to me. Plasma pistols and rifles were great for stripping off shields, and then switching to some human weapon to finish with. Or dual-wielding one of each.
Many of them seemed equivalent to a human weapon though. FRC/rocket launcher, plasma sword/shotgun.
Needlers were good for spraying, but they weren't very accurate, even with the homing ability. That led to players spraying wildly and hoping the homing would give them the kill, which it often didn't, thus balancing out against the times it did get the kill. Double-Needling was a lot like double-SMGing, but with mild homing ability, and explosive finishes. Over-powered, but hecka fun. Pink mist forever!
Later games added stuff like the Target locator, grenade launcher, and DMR, which were all pretty cool, but not quite as memorable. I think the original ones were more memorable because at the time there weren't any other decent games like that. Other options, even up to Halo 3, consisted of crummy FPSs, and games like Counter Strike and CoD, which featured real weapons, and amounted to twelve dozen names for a gun that goes ratatatatatatat.
The memorable, distinctive shooter games, are the ones with new and different weapons. DooM in 1993 and Halo in 2001 are both good examples.
+TheOtherGuys2 Halo 2 was the most unusual in terms of balance (based on the developers getting to grips with the intricacies of dual wielding). Also you've got the rifles mixed up: Assault rifle was in Halo CE while the Battle rifle was in Halo 2.
Halo 2 plasma rifle pistol combo was unmatched at close to medium range. Pop the shields then pop the head with rapid fire pistol shots. My friends banned me and anyone else from using it during competitive matches.
I've been thinking about a similar matrix for the champion matchups in League of Legends
High Mobility > Long Range > Short Range
Sustain Lane > Poke Lane > Kill Lane
Tank/Fighter > Assassin > ADC
Those last two look really similar. One survives damage (Sustain & Tank/Fighter), one does damage over a period of time (Poke & ADC), and one does a whole bunch of damage all at once (Kill Lane & Assassin). But take a closer look. The direction of the triangle reverses itself. Its like the skills you built up in the laning phase now mean something completely different in the mid-late game.
I like this guy. He is smart, logical and analytical. Good vids m8.
I really appreciate what you said about last weeks episode at the end of this video. Thank you for trying to combat racism and explaining really well what it actually means. I'm sorry you have to deal with so much hate.
Before Halo, it was widely understood that all multi-player matches could be dominated by the biggest gun on the map or the machine gun. We knew this because every game campaign was designed around this one principle. You ever growing inventory of guns(hidden in the TARDIS pocket) was in order of weakest to "clear the room." I, like many others, believe Halo CE was the same, until you realized there was no infinite pocket. The first few times I played the campaign, I grabbed the Pulse Rifle(machine gun) and held on tight to the rocket launcher if I found it.
Then one day I let the title screen laps into the gameplay. To my amazement, I watched as someone take down a Hunter with a single shoot of the handgun. At that moment I learned that every gun the game was balanced. This might be a testament for all Let's Play Videos to come, but I've loved the handgun since and beyond.
The balance in Halo go beyond the guns as well. I once worked on systems for a dissolved company. We would often test Xboxes with Halo CE and I would start an existing file. One day I started "the Silent Cartographer" mission and before the Pelicans landed on the beach the lunch bell rang. I left it running, thinking I was going to clean up the Covenant that were left. When I came back to the game, I scouted the beach for aliens only to find 4 marines waiting a half hour for me. Was this the design gun balance or AI. Who knows.
As for your rock/paper/scissors theory on the guns. I have learned that with years of death matches we have added counter measures to each attack. For Handguns vs Shotguns: follow up with a melee. Sniper vs Handguns: force then into tight spaces. Shotgun vs Sniper: speed, sheathe and above all the guy that got sniped next to you. Most of the time it results are a tie, but at least you're taking the guy down with you.
I loved the balance in the original Halo! It made for such an organic gameplay experience , and blessed me with some of my most cherished memories ever in gaming.
Yes. I agree with this. In Halo 3 I usually kept the BR as a mediary, or the assault rifle if the option wasn't available. If things were closer ranged I would grab a plasma rifle, no one picks them up and it's easy to gain close range advantage (though obviously not the perfect option) also even dual wields like the Plasma Rifle SMG combo were nearly just as effective, but dual Spikers were a little better with accuracy at medium range. Often map flow was important knowing where to go from any random point to optimize your ability also knowing where not to stand. In Halo 3 it feels like a refined version of Halo 2, because 'weapon sets' mattered not just the biggest baddest guns. Being equipped with the right equipment for the right environment or situation favors you more. The noob combo is an easy weapon set, but often BR stapled inbetween balancing long and short range combat like the sniper rifle or the shotgun works much better than the sniper rifle -and- the shotgun, medium rangers will get you more easily with the BR. I often find more than one power weapon to be trouble, since some of the more common weapons like the assault rifle while disposable are important to off set the weakness of power weapons. Like AR, Spartan Laser. Ultimately it comes down to the feel and flow of the fight, if you don't have it, you'll do very poorly. Refinement, and trial and error are key to this.
In Halo 3, which would win if both enemies stood point blank, and one was shooting with an Assault Rifle and the other a Plasma Rifle? And I mean no pulls, whoever dies first dies first.
What about all the other weapons? You've never mentioned where they fall in this rock-paper-scissors balance.
Speaking of the sword, I love halo's power weapon balance. The interaction of sniper, rocket launcher and the close range weapons, or how shotgun beat sword.
I can´t put my finger on it, but there is something distinctively American about Halo, something college fratboy dudebroish element.
Very elegantly put. I wonder if it might be because Halo seems to fall somewhere on the middle of the Arcade vs Simulator spectrum, maybe closer to Arcade. Fun enough for most anyone, but with enough depth that the dudebros who want to put the time in can get very good at it.
I now have a new channel to binge watch.
My personal favorite channels:
Game Theory
Film Theory
Variant
Nerd Sync
And now this channel, cool!
One interesting thing about the guns in halo is the assault rifle and the battle rifle, they're sort of like the "middles" between the sniper, shotgun etc. this give everyone a level playing field to start. (at least back in halo 3)
I prefer the guns from Unreal Tournament to the guns from Halo. Unique and creative with secondary shots that are varied and fun.
I remember pissing off the BR nuts and wrecking havoc in halo 3 with an energy pistol and shotgun.
Short range: Shotgun away
Medium range: Energy pistol burst and finish with shotgun
Long range: Lure in enemy with weak energy pistol fire, finish with shot gun
Halo's balance and diversity of weapons put Call of Duty to shame.
Sambo0201 which is exactly why cod decided to copy halo
Halo is one of the few FPS games where any time I'm killed, whether in single player or multiplayer, my death never feels cheap. I agree with the notion that the weapons are well balanced because it seems like my deaths were always a matter of skill versus feeling over powered. Despite lacking a lot of the bells and whistles of the more modern military shooter in its multiplayer, I still think its some of the most fun I've had, and that simplicity, in terms of design, has placed the focus more on gameplay than unlocking that next gun mod or buff or whatever.
Halo was not the first multiplayer fps with balanced weapons; what I think really made it stand out was the mechanic of avoiding combat to regain health (shields in halo). That altered the flow of the game so that whenever you are out of combat the goal isn't to find health packs, but to go find more combat; this makes the game reward/punish loop much shorter, hence more fun per minute.
I agree with your guns hypothesis, but I also loved how they put that unexpected twist in with Cortana's rampancy. it was unexpected and made me react in a totally different way than what would happen if it was just the standard ending with a big getaway or boss fight. I don't like how cortana is gone now but we will see in the future weather or not something else unexpected happens with her (they bring her back) don't blame me for getting my hopes up I know you all want that too
Keep in mind, I only played any Halo (2) on one occasion. I am sure having access to a limited subset of the weapons helped contribute to that feeling of balance since you couldn't just switch for the specific scenario. You had to live with your weapon choices or what you're given access to when you spawned.
First, I think halo also came out at a very opportune time. Before halo, the games to be played with a group of friends were limited especially when you consider there was just a switch in consoles. My friends and I had just switched from the n64 and Playstation to new systems and we were searching for a game that we could all play together. Halo filled that void.
I'd say that in general the weapons are balanced with exceptions that pop up with each iteration of the game. However I'm inclined to think that someone good enough at the game can overcome the balancing of a gun. For instance, on of my friends was quite literally an artist with the Sniper Rifle and could easily put shots right on the head at pretty much any range. For him, it quite literally didn't matter if you had a weapon that was "better suited" for different ranges and styles of combat, as he could simply negate most of their effects with a well aimed shot to the head.
The Android Next Door Yes, skill and experience will usually trump the balance between weapons. If everyone was on an equal skill level, then the balance would be more prevalent. However, the nice thing about Halo is that someone who is really skilled can still die from someone worse based on timing and because of this balance. Whereas some other shooters (which reward the players who play a lot with the best guns) won't have this balance. The veteran players will almost always win.
Oh I understand that. Which is part of the reason why I don't play games like COD anymore because of that. In terms of sheer balance and skill based combat, Halo is one of the top games if not the number 1.
LandoElf Nothing like an idiot with a rocket launcher to even the playing field.
If Napoleon is to be believed it is better to be lucky then skilled and you don't see that a lot anymore. Nothing sucks more than spawning next to an awesome weapon then getting killed before you can fire a shot.
Yeah your skill level had to be so high because 1 missed shot meant you were dead. So kind of cool the game rewarded that.
I seriously loved how much better the balancing got in Halo 5. It was amazing before, but it was highly improved in Halo 5. Every gun has its uses and it is one of the most balanced games I've every played.
Chillydogdude - Every gun has its use _regardless of the skill required to use._
Every gun has its use _regardless of whether another gun does the exact same thing but marginally better._
Halo 5 is the absence of direction and the gentrification of balance. It is worrying that it's most broken feature - the dumbing down and de-evolution of the sandbox - is appealing to some. There are _many_ other games that work because all weapons are easily capable multipurpose roles. Halo has never been one of them.
I am learning about the Han dynasty in school! The same day u uploaded this we learned the Rock Paper Scissors thing in school
Hey Jamin / GameShow creators, thanks for taking on the labor of dealing with / talking about racism here / in the last vid (and others). I know it must not be easy so just thanks!
I once had a staring contest with my opponent in a 1v1 on Snowbound because we knew the first to move lost. Shotgun/SMG vs Mauler/Energy sword
Most intense game of rock paper scissors ever, I joked. Seems I'm not the only one that sees it that way ^w^
When talking about balance, and important thing to consider is always the skill level of other players, which might explain why the pistol was OP in the first game. Games tend to be balanced using an average player idea, which is good in theory, but can produce an effect in practice. Think of it like this: in a Rock Paper Scissors game, beginners tend to follow a strategy. Pick rock first, maintain their choice when they win, change to a "better" choice when they lose. Assuming you knew this and were playing that "average" player, you could win more than 33% of the time this way, upsetting the balance of the game. Slightly elevating that to something people are more familiar with, when a young kid plays Tic-Tac-Toe, they tend to bumrush for the fastest win, or try a new strategy that backfires. An older kid usually has it figured out, and knows that there's a certain combination that ensures that you either win or tie.
Similarly. good Halo players could use the pistol well enough that it could be seen as a better gun overall, with a normal chance to beat a shotgun and a slightly higher chance to beat a sniper rifle. This unbalances the balance, assuming other players are just average. What should the devs do at this point? Well, that's always a question. There's the option to implement randomness (like in some card games coughHearthstonecough). But then the game might be seen as too random, and people will start to dislike it. They could balance it around low levels of play, to hit a large amount of players. But then that unbalances the higher levels of play that more dedicated fans play in. They could balance around the higher levels, but that gives new players a steep learning curve, making them less likely to continue playing the product. They could attempt to balance across all skill levels, but then randomness rears its ugly head again, and homogenization of choices becomes a completely separate problem. Interestingly enough, developers need to balance their balancing, based on their expected or desired player populations.
Good job with your response of last times comments Jamin!
I had a lot of conversations with friends that really liked the covenant carbine in halo, I didn't really understand why they liked it since I'm more of a battle rifle guy. But maybe there is a sort circle of light precision weapons as well. Maybe Lightrifle>DMR>Battle rifle>carbine>Light rifle.
But balancing like this can also be seen in other games, such as tf2. Is that scout weilding the sandman giving you trouble when you play as sniper? Just switch to demoman and use the loch 'n' load to take advantage of his lower health. Is that medic heavy duo leaving your team #rekt? Then just switch to spy and initiate backstabbing glory.
It's features like these that can help a game survive, it might be one of the many reasons why pokemon/smash bros/tf2/halo are so fun.
It's definitely the usability of the various weapons that draws me to halo, after the story aspects of course. In other games if you get ahold of, say, a pistol equivalent after expending all other ammo you think "Well, damn. Better use this on myself. Can't do anything with it anyway." In Halo, every gun is an opportunity to win. "Okay, only have ammo for the magnum. Better kill a Grunt, steal his plasma pistol, and go from there on up the ladder."There really aren't no win scenarios based on what gun you have in the series as long as you play smart.
I feel as though your research on halo was off because of the name mix ups and the lack of real knowledge of the guns. Plus no one talked about the forerunner weapons even though a lightrifle was shown. Any how, the needler uses its shards to explode. When enough shards are near each other, the explode or supercombine. Plus the plasma pistol takes down shields and stuns vehicles, not the plasma rifle, which doesn't do anything other then shoot. Also the rocket launcher fits somewhere but better because the reason the snipers rifle wins over the shotgun is still true for the magnum pistol. Thnx for reading and hope you enjoy. Love your show so much!
Nice reply to last week's comments.
My favorite parts of Halo usually involve using the vehicles in Multiplayer. Did you research turn up any specifics on how they fit into the strategic balance the game has?
BTW, nice work on the comments from last week. I think I'll have to remember your particular take, and see if I can't learn something about how I talk with others about difficult topics like race.
Halo is one of the FEW multiplayer games I can sit down and enjoy. Battle Rifle was my weapon of choice. If I had a Xbox One, I would want to get Halo 5 with it.
In Halo 2, the new Battle Rifle took the pistol's place as the mid-range king. While it was cool in the first game that you weren't defenseless in multiplayer, even after just respawning, the rifle does feel better with the mid-range killing gameplay.
What do the new alien guns in Halo 4 add? From previews, they just looked like reskinned human weapons.
I think Halo's gun balance can be described as "niche protection" Each gun will have a particular range or role it is suited for, where it will outperform the other tools in the sandbox, but have situations where it is inferior to the other tools.
Some weapons can be too general or have a broad purpose (BR, DMR) and become the primary tool. This may be somewhat necessary though so that you can give players a starting tool that they have a good chance of competitive play with.
The halo 1 needler is still my favourite weapon. I just love its design.
There's a (I think freeware) game that me and my friend played in LANs called Baboviolent 2. We loved it because every gun was balanced and a viable choice.
The guns made Halo fun, but I also loved the story and characters of the single player campaign. I didn't start playing the multiplayer until Halo 3.
Shogun Beats Sword (in Halo 2)
The Shotgun's one shot kill range is Juuuuuuuuust a bit longer than the Sword's Lock On Lunge Attack. As long as you have good timing *_(Bang)_*
If you don't have to think about a game mechanic or design then they have done their job successfully. Your avatar should feel like an extension of yourself. since you know how the guns will act and react every time and under what circumstances sometimes just by looking at them you know they did a great job with their game.
A good distription of proper balance this is!I have experienced this myself in most class/character based multiplayer games, like Team fortress 2 and League of Legends. Many devs and players think that a good balance means that all guns are equal towards each other (so rock can beat both scissor and paper, depending on the player's skill). Although this can be balanced, it becomes boring, because there's is no real strategy involved. Everytime there was such a character or weapon in a game, it would quickly become overpowered or simply boring (think ace of spades).
someone's never heard of quickscoping
The weapons are pretty great now that I think about it more and more. The only thing I don't understand is the Fuel Rod gun. While it is my favorite weapon, it fires so slowly and is sort of moot at even medium range unless the target is stationary. Maybe the blast is good against slower vehicles, but that's all I can think of, haha.
Exactly, if people don't know how to beat you, they're screwed. I always go for the incineration cannon and jet pack (I play heavies). The way to beat this strategy is to get as close as possible with a jet pack/rifle weapon. this way it forces me to go after vehicles and unsuspecting players only. Otherwise some dude comes and head shots me or gets too close to fire the cannon. This is only one strategy too!
So fucking ecstatic to see rvb on gameshow lol.
Hey Jamin, I think this discussion of racism and NPCs is one of the best you've done so far. Haters are gonna hate, as they say, but I really appreciate your efforts to spotlight and analyze the issue. Keep up the good work, sir.
I always thought Halo was mainly about the balance between guns, grenades, melee? Hadn't heard the theory in this video, was pretty interesting
As far as Halo goes, I completely understand and agree with the balance here. While I've always felt Halo was a little too old-school and repetitive in its design to get really into, even back in the day I could see the amazing emphasis they put on balance in their games. Even things like the recharging shields, the 2-gun limit, etc., were all intentionally put into the game to incentive experimentation, risk/reward play, and an actual focus each enemy encounter. Especially in single-player these design choices combined with things like the mid-level checkpoints allowed each enemy encounter to be unique, and as tough as they wanted them to be. There was no worrying about players being out of resources right before a big boss, and them having to retread a whole level if they died. So the devs could throw basically anything at the player after each checkpoint, leading to a much more fulfilling experience. There were very few filler encounters, because there was no longer any need for them.
I understand where you're coming from with believing that RE5 is racist because of the real world context/history of white people shooting people of color that it likely unintentionally emulates. But I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that it's racist; I'm more of the mind of it just being really insensitive. I think intentions do matter, and it should be taken into account when someone isn't intending to be prejudice/racist, etc. When you look at the Resident Evil track record, it's pretty all-inclusive, with RE4 focusing on rural Spain, and most of the others being set in a sort of Japanese-slathered interpretation of the United States.
To put it rather bluntly, you shoot all types of people in the Resident Evil series. And while it is indeed disrespectful to boil an entire continent of countries down into a few core stereotypes that don't actually coexist in the way the game implies, the setting wasn't in any way intended to reflect on the real world and the problems within it. I personally feel that does matter. To put it into a simpler context, if someone doesn't know that your mom passed away a few months ago and makes a 'Your Mom' joke, it's kind of mean to get upset at them for it. I don't quite think RE5 crosses that line where it's something you can consider malicious or so blind to real world problems that constitutes blatent and purposeful disregard for the types of people depicted in the game. So again, I don't think it's racist, just really damned insensitive.
The pistol was balanced between Halo 2 and Halo Reach. Dual wielding is what ended up balancing it out initially. It should also be noted that the weapon advantages can be reversed by things such as cover and range, adding another level of strategy into the game. Sadly, that all broke down in Halo 4 when weapons were grouped into three separate tiers based on race that made each successive tier simply better than the one beneath it, rather than keeping the former strategy element.
Paper represents the mind and rock represents strength.
It's mind over matter.
Paper beats rock
Halo: CE's pistol was my fave weapon of the game. Glad to hear the devs want to bring it back
Oh, and dual-needlers were the sh*t in Halo 2.
+Inkswitch the Unicorn haha yeah they were pretty crazy! The best combo IMO was plasma rifle, pistol combo. It killed stupidly quick
Splatoon have kinda done the same thing. And even after all the new weapons and the new weapon types (which I would have called Gattler and Bucket), nothing is simply superior nor inferior 2 anything, but the Rollers that play well will more often than not, splat the Shooters.
Halo's also works well because of the enemy variety that makes you change your tactics to deal with them all differently.
How can you not mention the original *Unreal Tournament*, while having a go at this topic?
That game was something else.
Amazing AI(still one of the best), really unique guns(beats the weapon design of Halo), and really fast paced
I just want to tell that in Sweden the papper is a plastic bag and can capture the rock.
Halo is so good. For me it was one of the only console exclusives that competed with nintendo on quality and brand/character recognition. Master chief (such an awkward name) is so identifiable in design but also as his personality and increasingly his motivations to a general public.
That's his title (Master Chief Petty Officer). His name is John-117
He called the Magnum a Pistol. 0/10
Weapons did play a part in making halo popular but it was the pacing that made it so awesome. I admit the weapons design heavily influenced the pacing though.
If we want to talk about awesome weapons there is no doubt in my mind that the unreal franchise takes that cake.
You also forgot about how the shield and health system along with the movement system gives ideas or flexaibility or uniqueness to the guns.
The needler is a great weapon because at times there are moments where you wouldnt be able to hit a person because he is being way too dodgy, or hard to shoot.
The plasma guns are projectiles and not hitscan and thus able to be dodged. Also strong against shields which the game has. The rocket launchers arent that fast and can be seen coming. Even the rocket can be shot if you are good enough. Then they also introduced vehicles into the game and some guns naming the plasma gun can be even more important in stopping really good Banshee pilots. Lets not forget the ammount of guns you have on yourself can determine how you kill people.
Plasma pistol + Drm or Battle rifle.
Plasma Machine gun + Teamates
You have 2 slots and that is just enough to be a walking killing machine that abuses the balance where you both have Rock and Alternate Paper.
Halo and Halo 2's success in the original Xbox comes partially from heavy marketing as they were exclusives.Furthermore, Halo 2 was one of the first console games to present a large online multiplayer experience, if you played online, you played Halo. This is a time before franchises like Call of Duty became the biggest games in the industry, and there's no doubt, the Halo franchise had an influence on that.
Perfectly balanced. OK I'm just gonna stop you right there bro.
U forget to mention really important variable... range.
Shotgun might lose to sniper from long range, but for example try to fight guy with shotgun with your sniper in close combat.
for those 3 weapons it goes most of the time like this->
at short range shotgun beats pistol and sniper- at mid range pistol beats shotgun and sniper- at long range sniper beats shotgun and pistol.
And then there are like miljon variables and special type weapons and mid points to those weapons like Br for example.
The PC Version of Halo: Combat Evolved had online play. And Rocket Warthogs. It was awesome.
Game theory is the field of strategic thinking when competing individuals' decisions are interdependent, Jesper is a professional game designer and researcher of the same.
Love the show week to week! You beautiful man!