Shooting Down the FPS: Team Fortress 2 vs. Far Cry 3 | Game/Show | PBS Digital Studios
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2014
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From DOOM to Call of Duty, First Person Shooters seem to TRANSCEND TIME AND SPACE with their staying power. Persisting through periods of both public praise and ridicule, they've proved to be one of gaming's greatest legacies. But this also means that their persistence and tropes are ripe for very deserving parody, most notably in TEAM FORTRESS 2 and FAR CRY 3. Jamin DIGS IN and see who best TURNS THE GENRE ON ITS HEAD in this week's Game Show!
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ASSETS
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• THE NEXT DAYZ? | Nethe...
1:06
• Spec Ops: The Line - I...
1:34
• [SFM] TF2 in 60 second...
1:44
• Meet the Pyro
2:07
• [SFM] Why Raging & Wea...
2:44
• Expiration Date
2:49
• Meet the Medic
6:03
• SFM - What is Love
6:36
www.gamespot.com/reviews/far-c...
6:38
www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/2...
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COMMENTS
Matthew T
• Should League of Legen...
4looming
• Should League of Legen...
UsurperKingZant
• Should League of Legen...
TheJaredtheJaredlong
• Should League of Legen...
Ebon Hawk
• Thoughts on #GamerGate...
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MUSIC:
"Oh Damn!" by CJVSO
/ cjvso-oh-damn
"Digital Sonar" by Brink
"Mindphuck" by Known To Be Lethal
• Video
"After Hours"
"Lakes" by Chooga
• Chooga - 3170 Lakes
"Beautiful Days" by Extan
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"Spectrum Subdiffusion Mix" by Foniqz
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"Good Way Song" by Electronic Rescue
"Alice y Bob" by Javier Rubio and Parsec
archive.org/details/escala19_...
"Sleet" by Kubbi
/ kubbi-sleet
"Toaster" by Kubbi
/ toaster
"Patriotic Songs of America" by New York Military Band and the American Quartet
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"Lets Go Back To The Rock" by Outsider
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"Run" by Outsider
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"Fame" by Statue of Diveo
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"Freedom Weekends" by Statue of Diveo
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Hosted by Jamin Warren (@jaminwar)
See more on games and culture on his site: www.killscreendaily.com
Made by Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
And regarding my glasses:
• Has League of Legends ...
HOLY COW did you miss a golden opportunity to talk about Farcry3 Blood Dragon. If you ever wanted Horatian satire of the fps genre you should look no further than that.
Yeah but that makes fun of the 80s limiting the message to people familiar with that, and dating it (its also in the other category like TF2). 3 is a satire on the modern FPS player like your average CoD Joe. So for the purpose of the episode I think he made the right decision.
BaneDain I disagree. they make blatant critiques on modern day mechanics and tropes along with addressing specifically the issue of video games and violence. Yes the retro parody is definitely there but i wouldn't say that someone who doesn't recognize that doesn't come out of it not realizing its satire.
Agreed. Much better choice than the main game.
epicalex95official Considering blood dragon was extra content far less people played this than the release title. So i'm guessing this is a numbers game, using the content as many people as possible can recognize. But wow was that game funny.
Another way TF2 is a great satire is its trading system. You can go onto servers where instead of killing eachother, people are buying and selling virtual hats. Oh, we can't forget the Conga Taunt either. Thanks to that dance entire servers of ready to kill gamers gave it up to dance with their fellow man. So beautiful....
The spy crab could also fall into this. Never trust the enemy!!! ...Unless they're being cute and silly. Then they're cool.
Especially weapons like the holiday bunch and bread weapons
I think calling Far Cry 3 a satire is giving the game too much credit. It really seems to me that it's playing most (if not everything) straight and has a hard time deciding if it wants to be serious "Oh no, I have to torture my little brother" or over the top fun "Aw yeah, burning down marijuana crops with a flamethrower while dubstep plays".
I'm never sure if Jason Brody is meant to represent some kind of notion of man falling into the darkness of his soul via commiting awful acts, or is just a total douche who's too infantile to really distinguish between whatever activities give him an adrenaline rush.
I think it really goes deeper than that though. There is definitely an in game conscience that speaks to the main character and leads the player to question the true affects violence has on a person. I also cant see the same people who made Blood Dragon as entirely serious.
What i do see is a middle ground though, where the game isnt making statements about the genre at large, but tells a much more serious story than a typical FPS can handle. The problem being that it is a FPS and any time you're lead to question your actions it feels like a critique on the mechanics that place it within a certain genre.
FC3 made is satirizing intentions well known, particularly during one of the rescue sequences. You're fleeing with one of the female friends in a jeep; she's driving and you're shooting enemies in pursuit. At the conclusion, you (Brody) is enthusiastic and self-congratulatory, but your friend quickly rains on your parade by pointing out that you klled those men and asking, "Did you enjoy that?"
sonicpsycho13 I don't think that's satire. I feel like many of those instances are character introspection for the purpose of story rather than critique on the genre. Each one of brodys friends is used to ground the events of the island in reality in some way while jason is living out his fantasy. The conflict between the two isn't necessarily satire.
OurayTheOwl +1
Maybe I need to play through FC3 again, but it never really occurred to me that is was satire while I was playing it - it morr felt that comments like that from the other characters were giving more depth to the player's character than being just some kind of killer. It never really occurred to me that comments such as "did you enjoy that" were aimed at the player themself rather than the player's character. I think elements like that were too subtle to make it an effective satire, or maybe I was guilty of not having my brain engaged!
TF2, because I am a fan of Horatian satire. It makes for the easiest and most pleasing way to troll people IRL, with things like being an ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Right with you bro hilarious mockery of a genre is my way
I'm pretty sure when UsurperKingZant said: "esport != sport" he was saying esports are NOT sports! The != symbol is used in programing languages like C# and it means: does not equal. Small correction on you there.
Also TF2!!!!
Gotta say, I'm impressed with the effort of costumes and involved editing. I really hope the future episodes continue with this quality.
Spec Ops:The Line is the best satire in video game history. Farcry 3 by comparison seemed clunky and unsure of itself. I could see what it was trying to do, but it was always too blatant with its message, making the whole thing feel a touch ham-fisted.
Great episode! Really laughed at your impersonation of Jason BROdy (I'm sure that was intended).
Interestingly enough, I had never though about Far Cry 3 this way before, despite being my favorite FPS. I can appreciate much more the game now. And although I enjoy it much more than Team Fortress 2, I have to agree that Far Cry falls a bit short on its satire, while TF2 delivers thoroughly. But I think that that can be attributed to the fact that this comic/satiric style is a core element of TF2, while the critic of the FPS genre is not by any means a core element in Far Cry. TF is great because everything it does, it does so while keeping in mind is goofy atmosphere they want to get across, making it a central aesthetic of the game.
I'm glad to see the good-old Game/Show back! Not that I don't like your blogs, but this is refreshing. Keep up the good work!
Tobias Azpiazu Thanks Tobias!
Farcry 3 is a really good game
TF2 is more clearly a satire
JBantha Algrank I think he just missed an and. Two separate points not necessarily related.
I think along with satirical tf2 revolutionizes what an fps is suppose to 've in terms of mechanic. For example the spy or pyro
I love TF2 for it's complete clear way of saying "Want a serious game? How about I give you tons of accesories and a weapon or two?" and also "What's that? You complain about the game not being serious enough? How about a free crate you can unlock for 2.49$?" to which I respond: Valve, you magnificent genius bastards... don't change please.
On the other hand, I've wanted to play FarCry 3 for quite a while but my PC is... so bad. I might just get a chance to play FC4 if I get a better PC soon... hopefully.
Hi, I can't find the "Man a man, a man man man" song (0:25) in the music list. Could you tell where I can find it? :(
I was honestly just talking about this exact topic yesterday with a friend. PBS game show, you were obviously made for me.
I have a similar problem with FC3. in that it makes the character out to have this homicidal transformation and berates him for it, yet forces you to continue along that path anyway. It has some of the most genuine and believable interactions with npcs in video games. When Jasons girlfriend has an emotional breakdown when he decides to leave her behind it was honestly an amazing piece of cinematic design. However, i HATED the game for making me go through with that. If it was a critique on the FPS genre its was annoying and unwarranted. I didn't want to go through with half the stuff in the game but was forced, then made to feel bad that i did. I think that's unfair to the unsuspecting consumer.
Great episode!
Farcry 3 does an excellent job at poking fun at not only the FPS genre, but also gratuitous action sequences. As you escape on a helicopter Ride of the Valkyries plays to accent your escape as this amazing epic experience as your character shouts out in excitement and relishes in the destruction he's creating. This whole experience is very tongue in cheek. Farcry 3 Blood Dragon goes alongside TF2 in the way it takes every action game/movie trope and cranks it up to 11 on the ridiculous scale.
Anyways, I believe Farcry 3 does an amazing job of pointing out the inherent silliness of a warrior hero fantasy.
But i have something I'd like to talk about that I think this episode makes good points about. There is this small game that was announced titled "Hatred" where you play as the antagonist rather then the protagonist. The goal is simple, kill people on a dark homicidal rampage. There is literally no depth to the game whatsoever. Even the developers insist that the game has no complex themes. It exists as a game about killing people, a type of game we see all of the time but packaged differently.
Would you consider this brutal shooter a satire along the same lines that TF2 is satire? TF2 and Hatred don't even try to be subtle about what they are portraying. Granted, Hatred is not trying to make light of anything, its just brutal for the sake of brutality. Because of this brutality however, you are somewhat forced to look at what contexts in which society views virtual murder as acceptable.
TF2 has cartoon gore and violence, Hatred depicts an almost comical and melodramatic view of mass murder. (when i say "comical" i don't mean i was laughing through the brutal violence in the trailer, but the words of the main character in the beginning seem purposefully generic and melodramatic, making it hard to take seriously)
Thumbs up for Godwin's Law reference.
No thumbs for him. He was using it to deflect the commentator's point, and that's not cool.
But he didn't deflect the commentator's point. He said the commentator's point is correct in that relating bad people to a cause or a group doesn't make the cause or group bad.
Ultimately, he did, but he first used the Godwin's Law point to deflect and make light of it. It's a common tactic in debate: Make a short tangent to undermine the weight of the comment you're replying to, then agree, and then make a statement which essentially contradicts the point of the comment. It's clever maneuvering, I must admit. Still not cool, though.
O52401 I rewatched that segment (11:09) just to make sure I didn't remember things wrong and I do believe I still disagree with you. He starts out after Ebon Hawk's point saying that he doesn't quite understand what Ebon is saying (I personally read Ebon's comment as being Absurd to demonstrate the absurd), making the joke of Godwin's Law, then moving on to address the comment that when you identify as a member of a group you have to deal with other members of that group and how they represent that group that you too are representing. In certain groups it will be more difficult than others Such as the Nazi Party. It is hard to say you're a member of the Nazi Party but then say that Hitler guy was going too far. He then closes stating that how each person deals with other members of the group is up to the individual. Because it is.
In Short: I do believe he did address the comment and he closed with an open ended statement because how each person deals with the subject is open ended.
For The Wynne Convenient, though, that he selected Ebon Hawk's poorly phrased argument as opposed to the many other arguments that made more well constructed arguments.
For example, some argued that writing off all gamergaters as bad because of the few that are extremist is like writing off all feminists because of the radicals in feminism. Ultimately the amount of harm that's come from gamergate is relatively small compared to the amount of harm that's come from radical feminists, yet the coverage is completely different.
Even when you look at the Nazi Party, every single German living in Germany during WWII was a Nazi. We don't go persecuting them; we only go after the ones that actually did something wrong. Likewise a crusade against all of gamergate is just mindblowing, when only a few incidents by a few (mostly unidentified) individuals have ever occured. The Anita Sarkeesian death threat, for example, was done by 1 individual, and there was no claim it was related to GamerGate at all, yet all the news headlines say that it's a result of gamergate. The individual claims that feminism ruined his life, however, and assuming that's true then this threat would've likely had happened regardless of whether gamergate existed or not.
Like O52401 mentioned, he's avoiding the topic. It's called the strawman fallacy. He's avoiding the broader argument of "it's wrong to stereotype an entire group based on extremists" by only focusing on the weak point in Ebon Hawk's argument, but avoids committing to the larger argument. If you take what he said (that you should reconsider labelling yourself as something because a few people gave it a bad name) and applied it to feminism, or thinkers in the pre-enlightenment era, or any profession that has a bad rap you would just sound completely ignorant and bigotted. Imagine if I went up to Anita Sarkeesian and told her she should reconsider being a feminist because feminists have murdered people, or dismembered phalluses in the past.
why didnt you mention quake or timesplinters ?
The best satire is Minecraft where kids shoot lego pieces instead of bullets
...sort of ;)
Splatoon
Agreed
I feel that episodes like this are much better than comments on current events. I didn't notice this before this episode so I can't say I agree yet, but I can say this episode was very interesting.
Team Fortress 2, especially because it's prequel was a "gritty dark shooter". Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon is another good satire as well.
My response to this is what the good folks at Extra Credits said.
Extra Credits - Plan, Practice, Improvise - Understanding the Three Types of Play in Games
Ha, I just noticed the Kill Screen issues on the set. That's a nice detail.
I'm biased.
tf2 for sure and does someone know the background song @ 3:00?
I think it would be cool to see an episode focusing on the sudden return of AAA survival horror games. We had two released just this month (alien isolation and the evil within). I've just kind of noticed this return to more actually scary horror games opposed to the action "horror" games we were seeing in the AAA market. I was just kind of interested in that.
I agree with that choice, also Borderlands, and even Saints Row (mainly 3 & 4) Loadout and Bulletstorm (A very underrated game that I think the sequel turned into what will be Sunset Overdrive). Still my pick Fallout: New Vegas. Seriously, you can talk your way out of things, get far ahead of the main story, kill 5 people with flamethrowers with using sign, drink soda that both heals and kills you for money, and after you save people say you want nothing in return even when the game offers you money and unlike some games you actually get nothing but "Good Karma" (IE The happy feels) and not a new quest for a far larger reward.
I loved spec ops the line. I wish there would be a sequel in spirit.
Nice you chose my comment!
Need a dispenser here.
Cool cosplay. Simple is the best. I love how I feel like kazuma kuwabara from yu yu hakusho should I wear all blue
I think the official extended media of TF2 is far more zany than the actual game, but the game does have its fair share of zany things going on. Though it's the fanmade content that is where the true zaniness lies.
Just started playing Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon. I think the developers probably wanted to have a crack at Horatian satire after they'd finished their Juvenalian work. The Horatian satire is a lot of fun, the approach in Far Cry 3 really struck me as different and engaging on a personal, role playing level and got me to think hard about the genre.
I never really though about Far cry 3 in that sort of way but it makes sense considering how certain sequences play out.
9:18 I think in Basketball if kids want to have fun, they can play it without a coach. I wouldn't know anything about what it feels like to play with a coach on a team or anything like that because I never did that in school. I feel like it would be the same as DotA though. You can have fun if you want to, and I know in my experience, I like to have people coaching me! I enjoy being competitive, so I don't think that institutionalizing esports by bringing it into a school would make them any less fun, because even if I'm exhausted with ranked matches, I still have the option to play it more casually.
I've never actually put much thought to TF2 being a parody of the traditional FPS, I guess I just find it so fun and humorous I never really took the time to examine if there was a bigger point Valve was trying to make with it
Hats. Nuff' said.
I honestly didn't even pick up on the satire in Far Cry 3. Not sure if that makes it better for it's subtlety or worse for totally failing to deliver the message.
I like playing FPS not for the killing but just because there's something fun about shooting guns. I just like gunplay, even when violence or other isn't part of it.
the 2 types of satire seem fairly incomparable, it feels weird to pick which game is better at being satire
Candy Mountain Massacre.
I think hotline Miami was one of the best satires of modern day gaming violence.
The FPS shouldn't be looked at as a genre, it's a type of mechanic. That being said, the criticism you bring up are spot on, and I love both these games. (TF2 more, but it's really apples and oranges).
I wouldn't hold my breath for satire in FC4. I'm certain it will be excellent, but probably also quite different in its approach to gaming conventions, because this one is a sequel (technically FC3 is too, but it really went its own direction). It will probably bask in new conventions set by FC3. I can't wait to play it.
There's also Saxton Hale in tf2, a caricature of hypermasculinity, and the interesting fact that the two smartest classes, medic and engie, are the least violent.
speaking of satire lets not forget blood dragon in fry cry 3, which was pretty much just pocking fun of 80's and 90's action movies and games.
I'd go for TF2 too, something about mocking stuff in a goofy way just makes me happy.
I truly think that you make a good point about the whole 'military serious MANLY MANLY' stuff'. I kinda wish there were less First Person Shooters, instead why not just, FPP? First Person Perspective. A lot of good games can use first person in better ways than BAM BAM shoot the bad guy, Portal for instance. Plus with new VR technology first person can go so much farther, and there are a lot of cool stuff with VR FPP. First Person Shooters are great and all, but I want to do more than shoot the bad guy nowadays. I'd love some new games that use first person perspective in a different way. That's just my opinion.
atlest we didnt start the flame war of tf2 vs CoD ...
*looks down*
oh god ...
iYou sir, are a fool. Why would you even mention it.
i have no clue
That's one plad shirt.
I think the anti violence message in far cry 3 was weak. You the "bad guys" in far cry 3 captured a group of tourists that didn't do anything wrong, then did some pretty terrible things that forced Jason to do something for his friends and new family in the local tribe he had joined. And Vaas and his German patron were legitimate threats to the local society and anyone traveling through the neighboring air and waters. From a Celtic player's perspective it seems like the pursuit of justice.
I have an idea for an episode: Does Call of Duty®: Advanced Warfare represents the future of warfare ?
I have a problem with this, you are asking witch is a better satire, while comparing too completely different satires. It's comparing apples to oranges about taste, it's completely subjective. You can't ask 'witch is more effective' as both have different goals, and what people want to hear will alter the effectiveness of the work. If people don't want to see FC3 satire, then it won't be effective. You need to compare piece who are trying to make a similar point or opposed points, as you can compare objective aspects of the quality of their argument.
TF2 satires FPSes visually and mechanically
FC3 satires FPSes morally
They are simply two arguments that can't be compared as they don't even share a subject, they satire the same things for different reasons.
In response to Matthew T on the obesity problem; most (if not all) current e-sports teams require a physical workout routine to be maintained during active participation because strong mental condition is linked to a healthy lifestyle.
Can I just say... with that wig.. you look great. I wish you would keep it around longer xD
Wig? That's my real hair.
Totally!
You took a mechanic,
found two games,
made them compete,
gave us arguments,
and left us without
an answer and
a comment section.
I think this you could probably switch out Farcry with Fallout 3 and TF2 with Borderlands haha
I think calling Jason Brody a millennial does a disservice to what the developers were trying to say about his character. Brody is supposed to be a common fantasy: young, privileged, rich, and on top of the world. To begin with he is the person that the target demo of most modern FPS dream of being.
To call him a millennial ignores his more important character traits in favor of his age.
You guys said to recommend things to put in the background, how about some Kingdom Hearts love? Mini Keyblade please
I just think of shooters as digital paintball.
Sandbox games were critiqued beautifully at almost the same moment with Saints Row IV and GTA V. The character of Trevor was a complete parody of the behavior of the average GTA player and Saints Row IV solved the cognitive dissonance of a hero committing over-the-top acts of violence by (spoiler alert) setting the game in a simulation, aligning the character' moral position with the player's (just killing programs).
I haven't played it, but Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon seems to me like a pretty stellar Horatian satire. Someone who has played it care to tell me if they think it is?
TF2 all the way. I didn't even realize that Far Cry 3 was meant to be a satire; I just thought it was a bit self-aggrandizing and trope-filled. After seeing you explain it, I can easily see that's what the writers were going for, but I'm afraid that didn't communicate to me directly.
TF2, on the other hand, is wildly fun and goofy, and I could always tell that (despite being a stellar-quality game), it doesn't take itself too seriously. It's easily my favorite FPS.
I just learned the word Satire, and now it keeps popping up everywhere. In school, in my favorite forum, youtube...etc watttttt
I don't know if I'd consider it a satire, but I do think Bioshock Infinite does a pretty good job at deconstructing some FPS tropes.
Normally, the genre has you play some anonymous, interchangeable person who's put in situations where he has to kill faceless enemies for the sake of progression. Bioshock Infinite makes it look like you're just an everyman facing violent hordes, but the ending reveals exactly how specifically your character ties into everything that happened. The truth about Booker is his violent past led him to do horrible things, and since we get to experience the game by murdering people [who, though prone to idol worship and violence are hardly inhuman monsters], we get that sense first hand. The game only truly ends where he takes responsibility for all the pain he's caused.
I agree. Far Cry (I haven't played 3, but 2 and 1 have the same inklings of satire at the endings) is hypocritical as a satire. My main qualm is that it essentially saves the "satire" for the last 5 minutes of the game, simply just condemning you for enjoying the game that it completely legitimately just served up, rather than being anything more substantive. Their failed-satirical last 5 minutes didn't change my mind that I enjoyed the rest of the game. A real satire would make me realize I am not in fact enjoying or condoning what's on display. It's a weak device on the same level as "it was all just a dream".
And finally, most paradoxically, as a company, how are you going to make your money off a scathing criticism of what you're making you're money off of. They are serving the thing they are criticizing, for the first 99.5% of the game. If anything, it's just a really terrible attempt at moral handwashing of the whole business, while still being happy to make money off of it.
My votes for borderlands as Horatian tf2's joke wears off pretty quick.
However in Far cry 3 if you choose to save your friends you dont get killed but you leave the first person perspective which the game stuck to the entire game. This might suggest that you have dissociated with the jason and that you dont have to be a violent criminal. Or you might see it as not acting as the game expected you to. Anyways it though it was interesting to mention how the game consciously breaks imersion.
I would say that FC3 more rehashes the comments that Joesph Conrad makes in The Heart of Darkness about society, rather than satirizing modern military shooter games like CoD.
I'm on board with TF2 as the better teardown. How many other shooters/FPS have a spin-off Texas Hold'em Poker Game? Also - I like the Konami Code eye exam poster!
Love both but TF2 is closer to my heart, the friends I met and the brilliant humor pulled me out of some low times
Far Cry 3 does both styles of satire , if you count Blood Dragon
Can something be unintentional satire? I ask because I feel TF2 wasn't created to specifically satirize straight faced gritty shooters. Sure, 2007 had Modern Warfare 1 come out, as well as having had the WWII shooter coming and going before. But Modern Warfare sort of kick started the idea of "No questions asked, power fantasy shooters that are problematic morally" (aka what Yahtzee Crenshaw might call "Spunkgargleweewee"). I mean, clearly past popular multiplayer games weren't too serious (the Quakes, Unreal tournie, others I can't think of at the moment). I would wager TF2 just wanted to look different from the other shooters out there, and Valve is used to having a sense of humor, so that fell into the TF2 cauldron as well. If satire is something drawn from the audience though, then I can see it more as being one.
I was referring to the satire of fps in the last part of my previous comment.
Tf2 is just a great game in general, it's my favorite fps. It's the only fps I play consistently even after 2 years.
TF2! The Far Cry games have never seemed like a satire of the FPS genre to me.
Is it bad that I never cared to finish Far Cry 3?
I got so invested in hunting and doing side missions, I racked like 150 hours on it before even killing Vaas.
The game could've been just a hunting simulator (where you can hunt people too) and I would've been perfectly happy with it.
Lol, good job! You subverted the moral agenda of the game!
If you look at it from a different perspective, some of the newer installments of Call Of Duty and Battlefield play out like parodies, most notably Modern Warfare 3. Is it possible for these types of unintentional satire to be taken as such? Or is it just attempting to justify the extremes of the trope?
I counter all of this with FarCry: Blood Dragon.
Tf2 is great not just because of the satire, but the community. Its been around since 2007, and its going strong with the halloween update coming out a few hours ago. What games are 7 years old that have an average of 70,000 players each day on steam?
I think Spec-Ops: The Line is another, even more clear Juvenalian satire of the FPS genre & accompanying bro culture.
Team fortress 2 is one of those games I want to like, but I can't get myself to enjoy. Far cry 3 on the other hand, I thought could improve it's story more. At the end I felt like the game was just trying to make me feel like I was bad for playing it, and I just laughed at it. The main reason I would play far cry 3 is for it's gameplay, not story. Far cry 3 really needed to centre more on Vaas.
ABSOLUTELY Team Fortress 2 is the better satire. It's also the better game in general, a game doesn't remain popular for over 7 years without being very high-quality!
Well honestly almost every FPS game has been the same. Farcry 3 is no different from Borderlands where you take quests, level up and etc. To add it up, Borderlands is also kinda like TF2 coz they made the game brutal and unforgiving yet funny and surprising and not to mention the coop/team elements.
TF2 really did well on its own. But what about the adventure of Half-Life? And the coop/puzzle aspect from Portal? Id like to hear the opinion of others here.
I personally think it's kind of like comparing apples and oranges. The only real question here is "do you think Horatian or Juvenalian satire is more effective?" Or perhaps "do you prefer Horatian or Juvenalian satire." I think the goals of the two are quite different. Horatian satire depowers through making something absurd.
TF2 is crazy and cartoony and can't possibly be taken seriously (outside of the hat trade... that's serious business) and so it makes us look at ourselves and say "how hilariously screwed up are we to enjoy shooting someone with a rocket and watching their gorey bits fly off. It's childish."
FC3 is "serious" in that it shows the 'reality" of what you are doing after coaxing you into doing them, kind of like Spec Ops: The Line. It chastises you by showing you real consequences of your actions, which probably weren't what you expected in a fantasy shooter world. Unlike the depowering of elements in TF2 to be absurd and childish, FC3 EMPOWERS it's elements, to carry a weight that they normally wouldn't have in a world where we are desensitized to violence in the FPS landscape. In most shooters, shooting a guy in the head is a headshot, in FC3, shooting a guy in the head is a murder.
And so I'm not sure you can say "which is better" as one is trying to make us laugh at what we have accepted as the normal and one is trying to make us regret what we have accepted as the normal. They are both effective in their own way, but are doing different things.
Brodian/Scoutian Rap Battle!
Allen Baker Oh goodness....
Praise Lord GabeN.
imo, spec ops is a 1000x better example of juvanalian satire than farcry
Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying gun shot blasts won't tear limbs or heads off or send people hurtling backwards? There are hundreds of guns that do just that. I mean yeah these games take liberty with the ragdoll effect but you make it sound like when people are shot they just crumple to the ground.
I feel that TF2 is pretty satirical, but I feel like Far Cry 3 was just a genuine blending of the Shooter and the Action Adventure game genres.
I personally would go with Team Fortress 2. I think the gameplay and atmosphere of FarCry 3 relies on too much on shooter stereotypes, effectively subverting it's satirical message.
Yea, tf2 forever! 500 hours here :D
I'm surprised about that you didn't refer to the Narrative of Tf2 which definitely plays into the satire of how we play FPSs. In TF2, the narrative justification for each match is to reclaim control of the area's Gravel pits. These pits are completely worthless, even in the videogames reality. Most other FPS games give the player some form of narrative incentive; You are fighting evil, you are fighting terrorism, you are fighting a rival gang. But TF2 knows that those reasons are completely without any value. Winning a match of COD is just as shallow as winning a pile of gravel, but TF2 is honest about the reward you are working toward.
Each of the player characters in TF2 also play into the pointlessness of the game. In each of the "Meet the Team" videos, you learn why every merc believes that they have the advantage over their opponents (The Scout has pride in his speed, the Sniper thinks its his patience and inteligence, Spy thinks its his cunning and inherent superior tactics, Heavy thinks its his gun). But we as an audience know that this isn't the case, since every merc gets absolutely destroyed by the other team, despite whatever advantages they think they have. The teams are locked at an absolute stalemate, battling over completely pointless prizes, gravel (and hats).
The ironic thing is that Pyro, a character who is depicted as a psychotic murdering machine, sees the world in a way that is far closer to reality; murder has no permanent consequence, its only a mechanic in a game, and he is only playing a game when he does so.
I already forgot Farcry 3 existed. Tf2 is still going after what, seven years? Tf2 is just the king of FPS games
You made the right choice, Jamin. TF2 is by far my second favorite game.
C_Splash Gaming :)
(Dota 2 is my #1)
TF2 (since its my favourite game) :)
There's no blood in any Battlefield game. Same with the Call of Duty series.
There's no gore either.
TF2!
Tf2 imo. But far cry is great too!
Why was BL2 in a visual for generic shooters? It's not really generic, it's a comedy looter shooter, that generally doesn't take itself too seriously. You run about with a shotgun that shoots anti air shells and and AR that shoots rockets, that explode into grenades, or a grenade that explodes in to ten other grenades, all of witch explode into another grenade.
Hello, my name is docpony, and I'm addicted to Tourge,
*explosion noise*
I would say Dishonored serves a similar role to Far Cry 3, except, of course, it is a different genre. Still, I would say it provides the same moral choice as Far Cry 3, but in a much better manner. The player is rewarded for "good actions" (ie not killing people) not only by a brighter resolution, but also through tangible effects throughout the game's level design, a highly visible check box at the end of missions, and a series of achievements. On the other hand, cutting down your enemies may feel satisfying, but gives you the clear impression that the city is falling apart around you with the spread of the plague and a much darker conclusion. Dishonored takes a much more subtle approach than Far Cry, at least up to the end, but I highly prefer the former's take on morality.
damn my comment wasn't featured :(
I prefer TF2 because its one of those games that is enjoyable even when you are not playing it (sometimes more so than when you are).
Side note. TF2 made the F2P Cartoon shooter a thing. Think of that as you will