Based on some responses to this video I want to add a few clarifications: 1. In this #BladeTechTalk series I am addressing primarily skaters who plan to do it seriously: #freeskate, #downhill, #slalom, maybe even #fitness, but not just for #recreation, for which all these technical details don't really matter and #4x80 is sufficient. I assume that an average recreative skater who would usually be fine with 4x80 would not watch a 15-minute-long video about frame length, and probably wouldn't even look for this video in the first place. 2. Videos in this series will be split by distinct topics or effects, and in this particular video I'm talking about the #length of a frame and nothing else, ignoring other parameters of a setup like height from the ground or weight, which are more related to the wheel size rather than the frame length, and these will be discussed in a separate video (probably the next one). 3. I am not suggesting everyone to use a very long frame. I used the longest one I have to demonstrate the difference in the most visible way. The main message is like I said in the video - for normal skating your frame should have length similar to your foot length: a bit shorter if you want more agility, a bit longer if you want more stability. 4. Unlike some years ago, nowadays it is possible to find a frame that is very close in length to nearly any foot size: 4x76, 4x80, 4x84, 4x90, 4x100, 4x110 + 3-wheel frames + 5-wheel frames, and when a longer frame has a slight rocker, manoeuvrability is not an issue, allowing you to give higher priority to the length of a frame that, in my opinion, it deserves.
Could you please do rockering on day the DH350 powerslide frame using 2x125 + 2x110 which is is their standard setup, but also have the rockered? The frames are 350 ml long and my foot is size is eu 49. I'm really looking trying to find a second frame setup other than my 3x125s that would be best good for for agilitu, slalom, free skate etc
@@WayOfHaQodesh With that particular frame I don't think you can create any reasonable rocker. It's designed to be flat with wheels of very different diameter, so the most straightforward way to make them more manoeuvrable is to skate them until the 125mm wheels wear down a little and become smaller in diameter. Another option would be to use smaller wheels, like 2x100 + 2x110, which should create something like 2.5mm rocker between the inner and outer wheels. That might be too manoeuvrable at the beginning, not sure what exactly you want to achieve this. So if you really want to stick to the DH350 frame you can just buy 3 sets of wheels: 4x125, 4x110 and 4x100 and then combine them in different configurations for either flat or deep-rocker feel.
@@NazarOnWheels Even if not time consuming the concept and execution was great! I love how you included the backpack too, skating with a backpack is soooo different 😅
@@benjiblading2548 I probably should have mentioned also that it's important to fix that backpack well, such that it doesn't fly around, otherwise it becomes unpredictable, which makes balancing really difficult. I avoid backpacks as much as I can. Luckily in Torino there are fountains with water all around, so I don't have to carry it with me and a fanny pack is totally enough.
@@NazarOnWheels I use a hiking bag now, the chest strap and waist strap really help secure it when I do need to bring a backpack. No swinging around makes 180s and backwards skating so much better
I started skating 6 months ago, my feet are 43.5. I always felt discomfort with 243mm bases. preferring 255mm or higher. I always thought that balance was related to the size of the foot and the height of the skater (as it affects the center). All my friends laughed saying I was just making small talk. Detail I'm 1.85 tall and they're all shorter, much shorter. But I had never given up on that idea. Now I confirm everything with your video. You are the most intelligent mind I have seen talking about this subject so far. the only person who truly understood what I was feeling.
Such a great vid! I wish I had known all this before I bought my skates. My first skates were a size 13 (47eu) Rollerblade Twister with 4x80 243mm frame. Even though every vid on RUclips recommended 4x80 to start NO ONE talked about foot/boot size! I was never comfortable using the 4x80s- I began to think I could never learn-so after almost 2yrs of frustration and no fun I gave up. But then I bought a 4x100 303mm frame for my 298mm size foot. Suddenly skating was SO much easier and more fun. Learning moves and skating feels very natural and normal now.
Thank you! I'm glad someone found it useful, because from other comments I had an impression that many people still prefer 4x80 to be the "golden standard" of a beginner's frame. I'm curious what frame was that 4x100? Was it rockered or flat, and was it easy to turn and skate in general from day one?
@@NazarOnWheels I recently heard that frames could be with 20mm of actual foot size so maybe that’s why people still like the 243mm? But for me 243 is a crazy choice and much too small My 4x100 is the Endless frame , it does have a small rocker similar to the NN Ronin it’s very maneuverable for a 4x100. It really was easy to skate on in the first day. I was pleasantly surprised! The 3x110 configuration of the Endless is flat. It’s very different (more stable and comfortable somehow) but after an hour I found it easy to skate as well .
Size 42 just got 243 full banan rocker skates to build a lot of balance and learn free style moves indoors! This is a very good video explaining why to use different frame lengths. I really like the demos you show with different frames and setups thats a really useful visualization
The minimum standard should be not "frame length = foot length", but "frame length = boot length", which acts as an exoskeleton (especially carbon boots). Simply put, starting from your theory, the length of the foot leads, rather, to the 4x80mm frame, as the support is given by the bones, which are not located at the extremities. Therefore, the support points do not coincide with the length of the foot. I can't wait for your new technical episode :)
It sort of makes sense, but I still believe that the foot is a better reference. And then ideally your boot should exactly match your foot, otherwise it will not be responsive enough. And with a frame matching your foot size, even on a longer boot it will provide you the same feeling of stability as on the properly sized boot (as long as it's properly aligned with the foot), so I would not really consider boot too much here.
I started with 80mm and my feet size is 44 even after a month I never felt 100% confident in my skating once in a while I would always get unbalanced and either waving my arms around trying not to fall or actually even falling on my a$$ but when I moved up to 90mm it's like night and day not once have I ever lost balance while skating, length and wheel size is so important to beginners make sure you get the right combination for your feet size it helps alot.
This video is genuinely so well put together and so helpful to me (new to skating and having 46eu feet). it is a crime that this video has less than 1k views. it should be seen by everyone learning to skate.
Very nice content that not many people explained about. It really make sense to choose the 'ideal' frame length for the specific type of skating we would intend to do or fine tune. Thanks!
Great video! When I came back to skating I was recommended a 3 x 110mm on a size 47 boot and went with it. The initial learning curve was pure suffering and I fell a lot. After a while I understood why and adapted to it, and eventually wore out the wheels but skating such a short wheelbase required constant vigilance. I am now on Endless 100 (303mm) 4 x 100mm frames and absolutely love it. I will never skate a shorter frame than about 275mm ever again!
I wonder who recommended you to go with that 3x110? And I imagine that was still a rather short frame, something around 250mm? Because also the Endless 100 frame can be used in a 3x110 configuration, but have the same perfect length for you of 303mm.
Great video. Especially the visual of how the frame length affects how far you can lean forwards or backwards before tipping over. Also that bending the knees more affects the forward lean angle. One side note not related to balance point, but the longer the frame length, the higher possibility for the wheels to clip each other when doing cross overs. So if your style of skating has lots of crossovers, you probably should pick a slightly shorter frame, unless you naturally have long legs and/or you have deep knee bends naturally.
Very good and important information. Since 2 years I have picked up skating again for the first time in 10 years. At size 45 I bought a 3 wheel 100mm skate, which has always felt quite unstable for me. I now realize that my shoe size, combined with a relatively short frame + a clear center wheel makes this whole setup very unbalanced. The single middle wheel in a 3 wheel setup probably makes this even worse. I'm now looking to get a 4 wheel frame, but struggling to find a 4 wheel frame that is longer than my foot at 295mm.
Great video, it's good that there are more frame options for free skates out there now. I think for beginners rec skates not free skates are better places to start, they often have longer frames for the stability and to keep the roll height lower they use 80/84mm. Obviously most free skates are better quality and more supportive than rec skates, so people ought to 'upgrade' when they want to do some different wheely boot movements. One thing i would like to see shops/companies doing more of is boot only deals for free skates (like they do with aggressive boots). I bought some Seba Highlight V2s this year and the frames are completely redundant for me (unless I start doing cones..). Looking forward to the next video!!
Yea, I totally agree. A month ago I had to buy a complete set of Powerslide Tau with their 3x90 rocker frames. But I don’t slalom, so I had then to buy different frames and wheels that suits better my type of skating.
Thanks! Yes, I miss boot-only options a lot as well. Usually decent boots come also with decent frames, so if the frame isn’t right for you, you end up paying quite a lot extra for the part you’re going to replace anyway.
Great info, Dude, and you make some logical arguments for longer frames, certainly in terms of foot dimensions. Personally, my favourite frame is a 215mm Trinity with 100mm wheels. It shouldn’t make sense given I’m a size UK9 (280mm), but I find it so quick and nimble, it just seems to work so well for me. I will defo try a longer frame, however - very soon! 😉
@@NazarOnWheels I never played hockey before skating, Dude, that would make sense though, as I always imagine hockey blades to be like a short rockered setup.
@@RichHayterSkater Hm, ok. From your style of skating I had an impression that you have some hockey background. That’s even more impressive then, that you developed it on skates alone 💪🏼
I like your vid but don't fully go with your advise. 4x80 is perfectly fine for tall people with larger feet. You don't need a large stable area for balance. It can even work against you. Think ice hockey skates for example, which have a curved rocker. You want to be agile and manouverable in skates, unless you're into something like speed skating.
Thanks for the comment. Yet I find your hockey argument not convincing. If you search on google images for hockey skate, you'll see that all of them have the blade with length exactly matching the boot or even slightly longer. Curved rocker is another topic, which affects manoeuvrability of a skate, but you still can stand on any part of the blade (except for ~5mm at the edges) and not fall. If you look at other comments you'll find a few from people with large feet who struggled with 4x80 and felt much better on a longer setup.
I am more interested in slalom with cones and more of freestyle slalom without cones for fun. I have very large feet EU46/47 depending on mondopoints. Speaking of 300mm (EU46 HC Evos are too short but EU46 Oxelo MF 500 fits for example ignoring the fact carbon vs hardboot though). Because of slalom I do not want to go larger and stay as short as possible. The common rockering is 76-80-80-76 and I have read that the first axle needs to be under toes and fourth axel under the heel. On the FR iGors it seems a bit too short if I understand it correctly. The question I need to get answered is, if a 273mm frame would fit me better with a 76-80-80-76 setup or is the gap between the wheels to high and should stay with 243mm? I also have read that at slalom the highest frame was 255mm.
Very good video, You are totally right its connected with the foot size. I noticed the skates with smaller sizes have 76mm and shorter frames but they are not doing it for bigger sizes for some reason. Also i assume that people with bigger feet are usually also taller right ? So their center of mass is higher and if it's higher it's easier to lose balance.
Yes, higher people have higher centre of mass, so short people with large feet are the most privileged from the stability point of view :) And that's why I'm in favour of using the foot size as a reference because then it doesn't really matter what is the relation between your height and foot size since you've been practicing balancing with this combination for your whole life.
Could rec skate manufacturers have known that for ages? 42.5 EU 4*80@270mm frame, 40EU 4*80@255mm frame. These were my and my wife's skates bought 15 years ago.
I think I've seen some recreational skates like that as well, with unusually large spacings between wheels. I guess it was exactly their reasoning, like on skates for small kids - they also have wheel base quite a lot longer than the boot, so they hardly ever fall.
I think that they know, but nowadays specialized skating is so small that manufacturer use strategies like "one frame to rull them all" in order to save money. The wealthiest companies, like Rollerblade, include a 255 mm frame for the 4x80 setup for the biggest sizes.
Bonsoir, Nazar. I wonder if you tried to rock a three-wheeled frame, for example back 2x110mm + front 100mm? Are the skates still stable? As you said, the problem with long frames is taking turns, which is why I asked you the question. Keep up the good job!
No, I have never put wheels of different sizes on a triskate. The configuration you suggested: 100-110-110 seems quite extreme to me, because there would be 5mm difference between the 1st and 2nd wheels, which has absolutely no practical benefit, in my opinion. But when skating my 3x110 there was slight rocker developing in it naturally with time (1st and 3rd wheels are consumed faster because of strides and turns respectively), so the middle wheel was bigger than the other two, working as a pivot point. The wheel sizes on that setup now are: 105-106-104.5, so there is about 1.5mm effective difference between wheels 1-2 or 2-3. And I must say it feels great, very manoeuvrable, much easier to turn and enter into slides than on flat 110-110-110. I think in this video was the last time I skated it with that "natural" rocker: ruclips.net/video/H8jQ2xIF6U4/видео.html But of course I wouldn't use them for high speeds, especially if you have symmetric spacing between the wheels, because it's not going to be stable. As far as I know the only 3-wheel frames with a slight rocker of this kind built-in are the 3x110 from NN Skates. But on my flat Supersonic frame that rocker appeared quite soon as well, so if you don't change positions of your wheels in the frame and skate them for a while you'll get that rocker anyway and you can see for yourself how it feels.
@@NazarOnWheels I have one question About this natural rocker that everyone talks about. So if I rotate my wheels just inside outside left right but not changing the place, natural rocker will develop, right? But with time and wheels getting smaller and smaller, how the rocker will change? Difference between middle and outer wheels getting bigger, i.e. rocker more aggressive? Or because the middle wheels will contact the ground more, they will wear out faster and therefore the rocker will stay pretty much the same over the life of the wheels?
@@nikolaykalendzhiev9612 I think there isn't one simple answer to that. The thing is that when you start with a flat setup, your personal natural rocker will develop that reflects your style of skating. And if your skating is well balanced, in the sense that the wheels wear out more-or-less uniformly, the rocker should remain the same all the time. For my skating style it seems to be the case and I would define 3 main contributions to consuming my wheels: 1. front wheels are consumed more when pushing with toes during strides; 2. rear wheels are consumed more when doing sharp turns or power stops; 3. middle wheels are consumed more when breaking with a drag-stop or parallel stops or eventually during some slides (after steps 1 and 2 the middle wheels get more contact when sliding) So for me all these 3 effects balance each other out keeping the rocker stable, and after I learned to skate decently I never changed my wheel positions. But, for example, if I would be doing primarily long-distance skating on some flat landscape, I would not be doing much of stopping and sliding, the dominant contribution to the consumption of my wheels would only come from step 1 (the strides), and that would not be a sustainable rocker of course, because over time your front wheels would become smaller and smaller, creating ever increasing lean forward in your natural rocker. But I think this is quite rare, so if you skate normally, without any kind of movement being much more dominant over the others, the rocker should remain stable over the whole lifetime of your wheels.
@@NazarOnWheels For a few months, my setup is 4x100mm. The middle wheels have a hardness of 86A and the other 82A. The rocker effect occurred due to uneven wear.
@@DanielDaniel-oe4bg Wow! 100mm 82A? What wheel is that? With the outer wheels being so soft they will wear out faster than the harder ones, so the rocker will show up much quicker, but I wonder how sustainable it will be with time. They might keep wearing out faster, making the rocker deeper and deeper with time. And then it might behave not very nicely during slides when there is such a big difference in grip between the middle and outer wheels. I had for some time a similar configuration of 82A vs 84A on my flat 4x90 setup and I didn't really like it because of that grip imbalance... How is it working for you at 100mm?
great video, what do you think would be a better choice for me, my foot length is 261, shall I start with 4x90 or 4x80? advise, please. I am about buying the powerslide hc evo pro boot only
I think technically they are pretty much the same, but the FR one os stronger. So if you are on a heavier side FR would be more reliable for jumps. Otherwise if you’re lightweight or considering it primarily for cruising and long-distance skating, without too much stress on the frames, Flying Eagle would be perfectly fine.
Great video! I'm considering getting a 4x90mm 275 frame. I'm 45eu and I kind of struggle with the 4x80 243mm so far, it feels that somehow I lose balance sometimes with it, so I think it may be the size of the frame after watching your video. What do you think about it? Can I slalom with this kind of frame?
Yes, I'm sure it will be easier for you on a 4x90 frame from the balance point of view. But you also will be higher from the ground on 90mm wheels, which will require more strength in your muscles for the slalom tricks compared to 80mm. That is of course not to say that it is impossible; people also do slalom tricks on triskates with even bigger wheels, but I think it's important to acknowledge that you will exchange the better balance for more demanding muscle strength. But overall that size should be perfect for you, even though 4x84 might be even better specifically for slalom, being shorter. And needless to say that you certainly want a rocker in such a frame to do slalom.
@@NazarOnWheels Thank you! About the height I don't know if it'll make a big difference because it's the next 4x90 trinity frame, they claim it's lower compared to others. I'm also tall 1,87cm, 6 feet tall
@@felipenogueira7518 Ok, with the Trinity mount it's indeed less of an issue. But it's not rockered, as far as I know, so not really ideal for slalom, unless you put 84mm wheels on the sides
Hi my boots are 38. I am 1.55 cm tall. I want to buy frame for my Seba High Light and make them tri-skates. Should I buy a frame that could hold 125 mm wheels and use it with 100 wheels? What is your recommended length for the frame?
Can i use speed skate frames on my size 46EU freestyle boot? coz it's the only long 276mm 4x90 frame i can find. my current frame is 243mm 4x80. i don't plan to go larger than 90mm wheels for now.
As long as they have compatible mounts, you can for sure use it. I imagine that your freestyle boot uses the 165mm mount, so you just need to get a 4x90 frame in the same mount.
I am taller than you. I reckon 4x110 would be better for me, but all those set ups are too expensive. Add to that, not every boot fits my wide feet. Hard boots are quite uncomfortable for me and soft boots are probably not ideal at larger wheel sizes. Shop Task says they don't recommend soft shoes for people over 150lbs and I am. Choosing skates is hard.
Yes, I agree. Choosing a skate is hard. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by hard and soft boots. Structurally there are two categories of boots: hard shell boots with replaceable liners, and boots with integrated liners, and in both categories they can be harder or softer. But the general rule should be to choose a boot with hardness adequate for what you want to do on them, from soft fitness boots to super stiff carbon boots. And then choose a specific model of the boot based on your foot shape, which of course is best to test in a retail store trying different models. You can try to look up some model shape comparisons on Internet. From the models I've seen myself Seba CJ/SX have the widest shell, which seems to be even a little too wide for my wide feet. Then in a worst case you also consider a larger size boot, leaving some more space in the toe area. If you use a strong 45º strap and lace them tight, it will keep the heel in place, such that the foot won't move inside anyway. Also keep in mind that new skates never feel comfortable from the beginning, unless they are very soft, therefore you need several sessions for them to break in and better take the shape of your foot.
@@NazarOnWheels I currently use a larger boot, but people insist there is significant difference in control with well fitting boots. So I was trying to find a good fit. I am not even sure if that's significant to my mediocre skill. I am also confused about frames. They don't seem to be compatible across manufacturers. Can I put a powerslide frame on a roller derby boot? Assuming both are 2 point mount systems? Or are there differences between even 2-point frames?
@@simstar6557 Well, the perfect fit is of course essential. What I mean is that if you can't find the perfect fit, you can sacrifice the perfect length, because the fit from the sides of the boot is very difficult to change in any given boot, while fixing the foot in the forward-backward direction is relatively easy just by lacing and 45º strap. So width of the boot is way more important parameter than its length. Talking about the frames, I'm not sure I understand your question. Roller derby boots are for quad skates, not inline skates, as far as I know, so it's a completely different kind of skate. The inline skate frames with 2 mounting holes still come in different standards, like 165mm, 195mm, UFS. 165mm is the most commonly used for freeskating. So all frames of one specific standard will be consistent with the boots of that standard. So a Powerslide frame with 2 mounting holes would most likely have the 165mm standard and you would need a corresponding boot for that. For example the Seba CJ I mentioned before is has the UFS standard, so it's not readily compatible with 165mm mount frames unless you use an adapter, which would slightly compromise the rigidity of the whole setup.
@@NazarOnWheels roller derby does make inline skates, although they are far better known for quad skates. Their elite inline line has replaceable frames but they dont bother to specify the mount. I am assuming it is a 2 pt 165mm by default since they have 125 and 110 presumably via the same frame. I wish they were explicit.
Very good video. Not much to add. You explain very clearly the basics that every serious practitioner should know, or at least, that every serious practitioner should be interested in. Thanks for the work. An idea for a next video in this series: why not talk about the 3 types of standart frame mounting, 165/195mn, trinity and UFS. If you are considering a video about rockering, I would like to draw your attention to this new type of rockering, which is very popular in hockey today: www.marsblade.com/roller-hockey o7
Thank you for the suggestions! I am going to talk about the mounts in the next or next-to-next video. But I was planning to talk only about UFS and 165/195mm because these are the only ones I have and because these are the most popular and open standards, whereas Trinity is proprietary. Furthermore if I'll talk about Trinity, I should probably also talk about the Quattro from Adapt, which is even less widespread. I can mention them at least to tell what's the technical reasoning behind those mounts.... And thanks a lot for the link! I haven't heard about it before. The concept looks really interesting. I still didn't completely understand how exactly it does what they claim, but I will study it :)
Interesting video, but wish you went more into the benefits of / reasons for choosing a short frame; like tight, agile crossovers and such without clipping wheels. Freeskaters who don't do anything too aggressive or wizardy should be capable of balancing on a short frame. And the feeling of some instability is surely part of the thrill of skating.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, you're right. I was concentrated too much on longer frames, not balancing it with an example for shorter frame use cases, which certainly are important as well. I think I'll make a follow-up video on this topic to address some comments that I've received, and will mention this short-frame use case as well.
In under a minute, he called a NN 5x80 dragon frame a wizard frame, are you serious? OMG, this guy is so unprepared for his video and all over the place. Dude, I know what I know in skating and you can't keep me on track, I feel for someone who knows nothing and sees this.
Wow, there was a lot of bs in one video just to advertise a long frame for a company. Stability isnt the main goal for skate companys to choose a frame length for a skate modell. 4x80 is the perfect and most versatile frame length for the average freeskater or even fitnessskaters. The most common foot size for men according to the shoe industry is size 41. That is also what skate shops confirm by the sales figures. So your claim most men have bigger feet is plain wrong. The center of mass remains the center of mass and doesnt change the place no matter how long the frame is as long as the frame is centered under the foot. Learning to inline skate means gaining balance. Why should a skater avoid it by using longer frames and strange rockering? Inline figure skaters are using short triskate setups for best results and speed skaters are using long frames for best results. If your are none of them stay in the middle and dont fall for stupid marketing or advertising like the skate frame influencers trying to push.
I didn't say that the centre of mass changes depending on the frame length, so I don't see what that comment was about. Concerning the size 41 being the most common, do you have the source of that information? Because I find it hard to believe. I mean it certainly could be true in some regions of the world, but in Europe I think it's bigger. Now I guess you're saying that staying in the middle means sticking to 4x80. And I'm saying that staying in the middle is choosing what's right for your foot. If you happen to be EU41, lucky you. But if not, then maybe 4x80 is not for you. And I want to stress that I didn't advocate for a long frame, I just used the longest one I have to demonstrate the difference. Obviously for normal skating one should choose a frame that matches the foot.
This isn't a great argument; if the length of your frame/point of contact w/the ground didn't matter at all, why aren't we all using super tiny frames? Why aren't hockey players using 500mm frames, or 140mm frames? You don't think they'd feel incredibly hard to use? I didn't take his point to be "everybody needs big frames", just that that most common 243mm frames might not be ideal for everyone. People who are 6'3" with size EU47-48 feet might get a better skating experience by upping the size to make their body size a little bit. Nothing crazy, but maybe 273mm instead of 243mm would make a big difference if they're having trouble with balance. They could learn to use 243mm just fine, of course, we're just talking about what would be ideal.
Based on some responses to this video I want to add a few clarifications:
1. In this #BladeTechTalk series I am addressing primarily skaters who plan to do it seriously: #freeskate, #downhill, #slalom, maybe even #fitness, but not just for #recreation, for which all these technical details don't really matter and #4x80 is sufficient. I assume that an average recreative skater who would usually be fine with 4x80 would not watch a 15-minute-long video about frame length, and probably wouldn't even look for this video in the first place.
2. Videos in this series will be split by distinct topics or effects, and in this particular video I'm talking about the #length of a frame and nothing else, ignoring other parameters of a setup like height from the ground or weight, which are more related to the wheel size rather than the frame length, and these will be discussed in a separate video (probably the next one).
3. I am not suggesting everyone to use a very long frame. I used the longest one I have to demonstrate the difference in the most visible way. The main message is like I said in the video - for normal skating your frame should have length similar to your foot length: a bit shorter if you want more agility, a bit longer if you want more stability.
4. Unlike some years ago, nowadays it is possible to find a frame that is very close in length to nearly any foot size: 4x76, 4x80, 4x84, 4x90, 4x100, 4x110 + 3-wheel frames + 5-wheel frames, and when a longer frame has a slight rocker, manoeuvrability is not an issue, allowing you to give higher priority to the length of a frame that, in my opinion, it deserves.
Could you please do rockering on day the DH350 powerslide frame using 2x125 + 2x110 which is is their standard setup, but also have the rockered? The frames are 350 ml long and my foot is size is eu 49. I'm really looking trying to find a second frame setup other than my 3x125s that would be best good for for agilitu, slalom, free skate etc
@@WayOfHaQodesh With that particular frame I don't think you can create any reasonable rocker. It's designed to be flat with wheels of very different diameter, so the most straightforward way to make them more manoeuvrable is to skate them until the 125mm wheels wear down a little and become smaller in diameter. Another option would be to use smaller wheels, like 2x100 + 2x110, which should create something like 2.5mm rocker between the inner and outer wheels. That might be too manoeuvrable at the beginning, not sure what exactly you want to achieve this. So if you really want to stick to the DH350 frame you can just buy 3 sets of wheels: 4x125, 4x110 and 4x100 and then combine them in different configurations for either flat or deep-rocker feel.
Loved the « leaning » part of the video! Good analysis:)
Thanks. Funny enough that was the easiest and least time-consuming part of the video to make. That's something to take note of...
@@NazarOnWheels Even if not time consuming the concept and execution was great! I love how you included the backpack too, skating with a backpack is soooo different 😅
@@benjiblading2548 I probably should have mentioned also that it's important to fix that backpack well, such that it doesn't fly around, otherwise it becomes unpredictable, which makes balancing really difficult. I avoid backpacks as much as I can. Luckily in Torino there are fountains with water all around, so I don't have to carry it with me and a fanny pack is totally enough.
@@NazarOnWheels I use a hiking bag now, the chest strap and waist strap really help secure it when I do need to bring a backpack. No swinging around makes 180s and backwards skating so much better
Simply the smartest video I've ever seen about skating. completely revealed the secret. that's exactly it.
You are a great teacher. I am impressed by the clarity of the content and the effort you put into it.
I started skating 6 months ago, my feet are 43.5. I always felt discomfort with 243mm bases. preferring 255mm or higher. I always thought that balance was related to the size of the foot and the height of the skater (as it affects the center). All my friends laughed saying I was just making small talk. Detail I'm 1.85 tall and they're all shorter, much shorter. But I had never given up on that idea. Now I confirm everything with your video. You are the most intelligent mind I have seen talking about this subject so far. the only person who truly understood what I was feeling.
Such a great vid! I wish I had known all this before I bought my skates. My first skates were a size 13 (47eu) Rollerblade Twister with 4x80 243mm frame. Even though every vid on RUclips recommended 4x80 to start NO ONE talked about foot/boot size! I was never comfortable using the 4x80s- I began to think I could never learn-so after almost 2yrs of frustration and no fun I gave up.
But then I bought a 4x100 303mm frame for my 298mm size foot. Suddenly skating was SO much easier and more fun. Learning moves and skating feels very natural and normal now.
Thank you! I'm glad someone found it useful, because from other comments I had an impression that many people still prefer 4x80 to be the "golden standard" of a beginner's frame. I'm curious what frame was that 4x100? Was it rockered or flat, and was it easy to turn and skate in general from day one?
@@NazarOnWheels I recently heard that frames could be with 20mm of actual foot size so maybe that’s why people still like the 243mm? But for me 243 is a crazy choice and much too small
My 4x100 is the Endless frame , it does have a small rocker similar to the NN Ronin it’s very maneuverable for a 4x100. It really was easy to skate on in the first day. I was pleasantly surprised! The 3x110 configuration of the Endless is flat. It’s very different (more stable and comfortable somehow) but after an hour I found it easy to skate as well .
@@Jkw211 Yes, that is a good frame. For normal skating rocker is essential on anything longer than 4x80, or maybe 4x84
That foot size to frame length ratio is a great argument, now I can tell to the wife to upgrade to a longer triskate frame and wheels.
Size 42 just got 243 full banan rocker skates to build a lot of balance and learn free style moves indoors! This is a very good video explaining why to use different frame lengths. I really like the demos you show with different frames and setups thats a really useful visualization
The minimum standard should be not "frame length = foot length", but "frame length = boot length", which acts as an exoskeleton (especially carbon boots). Simply put, starting from your theory, the length of the foot leads, rather, to the 4x80mm frame, as the support is given by the bones, which are not located at the extremities. Therefore, the support points do not coincide with the length of the foot.
I can't wait for your new technical episode :)
It sort of makes sense, but I still believe that the foot is a better reference. And then ideally your boot should exactly match your foot, otherwise it will not be responsive enough. And with a frame matching your foot size, even on a longer boot it will provide you the same feeling of stability as on the properly sized boot (as long as it's properly aligned with the foot), so I would not really consider boot too much here.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about skates. It helps me a lot.
Your wizard movements are great on both short and long frame. :)
I started with 80mm and my feet size is 44 even after a month I never felt 100% confident in my skating once in a while I would always get unbalanced and either waving my arms around trying not to fall or actually even falling on my a$$ but when I moved up to 90mm it's like night and day not once have I ever lost balance while skating, length and wheel size is so important to beginners make sure you get the right combination for your feet size it helps alot.
I respect the subject matter you're talking about and how much importance you put into making this video.
This video is genuinely so well put together and so helpful to me (new to skating and having 46eu feet). it is a crime that this video has less than 1k views. it should be seen by everyone learning to skate.
Thank you! I’m glad it was helpful.
🎉 The best vídeo of all times ...
Great content. Thanks! Looking forward to the next episodes. :)
Very nice content that not many people explained about. It really make sense to choose the 'ideal' frame length for the specific type of skating we would intend to do or fine tune. Thanks!
This is an outstanding video! I especially liked the demonstrations. Looking forward to the next one.
Thank you! 🙌
Great video! When I came back to skating I was recommended a 3 x 110mm on a size 47 boot and went with it. The initial learning curve was pure suffering and I fell a lot. After a while I understood why and adapted to it, and eventually wore out the wheels but skating such a short wheelbase required constant vigilance. I am now on Endless 100 (303mm) 4 x 100mm frames and absolutely love it. I will never skate a shorter frame than about 275mm ever again!
I wonder who recommended you to go with that 3x110? And I imagine that was still a rather short frame, something around 250mm? Because also the Endless 100 frame can be used in a 3x110 configuration, but have the same perfect length for you of 303mm.
Great video. Especially the visual of how the frame length affects how far you can lean forwards or backwards before tipping over. Also that bending the knees more affects the forward lean angle. One side note not related to balance point, but the longer the frame length, the higher possibility for the wheels to clip each other when doing cross overs. So if your style of skating has lots of crossovers, you probably should pick a slightly shorter frame, unless you naturally have long legs and/or you have deep knee bends naturally.
You're the man Naz
Very good and important information. Since 2 years I have picked up skating again for the first time in 10 years. At size 45 I bought a 3 wheel 100mm skate, which has always felt quite unstable for me. I now realize that my shoe size, combined with a relatively short frame + a clear center wheel makes this whole setup very unbalanced. The single middle wheel in a 3 wheel setup probably makes this even worse.
I'm now looking to get a 4 wheel frame, but struggling to find a 4 wheel frame that is longer than my foot at 295mm.
Great video, it's good that there are more frame options for free skates out there now. I think for beginners rec skates not free skates are better places to start, they often have longer frames for the stability and to keep the roll height lower they use 80/84mm. Obviously most free skates are better quality and more supportive than rec skates, so people ought to 'upgrade' when they want to do some different wheely boot movements. One thing i would like to see shops/companies doing more of is boot only deals for free skates (like they do with aggressive boots). I bought some Seba Highlight V2s this year and the frames are completely redundant for me (unless I start doing cones..). Looking forward to the next video!!
Yea, I totally agree.
A month ago I had to buy a complete set of Powerslide Tau with their 3x90 rocker frames. But I don’t slalom, so I had then to buy different frames and wheels that suits better my type of skating.
Thanks! Yes, I miss boot-only options a lot as well. Usually decent boots come also with decent frames, so if the frame isn’t right for you, you end up paying quite a lot extra for the part you’re going to replace anyway.
Great info, Dude, and you make some logical arguments for longer frames, certainly in terms of foot dimensions. Personally, my favourite frame is a 215mm Trinity with 100mm wheels. It shouldn’t make sense given I’m a size UK9 (280mm), but I find it so quick and nimble, it just seems to work so well for me. I will defo try a longer frame, however - very soon! 😉
Thanks Rich! You’ve been also playing ice hockey before getting on rollerblades, right? Were the blades of your ice skates also as short?
@@NazarOnWheels I never played hockey before skating, Dude, that would make sense though, as I always imagine hockey blades to be like a short rockered setup.
@@RichHayterSkater Hm, ok. From your style of skating I had an impression that you have some hockey background. That’s even more impressive then, that you developed it on skates alone 💪🏼
@@NazarOnWheels Thanks Dude! I wish I had played ice hockey as a kid, I love all that buzzing about!
Thanks for the clarification! totally make sense! :)
Excellent tech talk.
Thanks!
I like your vid but don't fully go with your advise. 4x80 is perfectly fine for tall people with larger feet. You don't need a large stable area for balance. It can even work against you. Think ice hockey skates for example, which have a curved rocker. You want to be agile and manouverable in skates, unless you're into something like speed skating.
Thanks for the comment. Yet I find your hockey argument not convincing. If you search on google images for hockey skate, you'll see that all of them have the blade with length exactly matching the boot or even slightly longer. Curved rocker is another topic, which affects manoeuvrability of a skate, but you still can stand on any part of the blade (except for ~5mm at the edges) and not fall. If you look at other comments you'll find a few from people with large feet who struggled with 4x80 and felt much better on a longer setup.
I am more interested in slalom with cones and more of freestyle slalom without cones for fun. I have very large feet EU46/47 depending on mondopoints. Speaking of 300mm (EU46 HC Evos are too short but EU46 Oxelo MF 500 fits for example ignoring the fact carbon vs hardboot though).
Because of slalom I do not want to go larger and stay as short as possible. The common rockering is 76-80-80-76 and I have read that the first axle needs to be under toes and fourth axel under the heel. On the FR iGors it seems a bit too short if I understand it correctly.
The question I need to get answered is, if a 273mm frame would fit me better with a 76-80-80-76 setup or is the gap between the wheels to high and should stay with 243mm? I also have read that at slalom the highest frame was 255mm.
Really good
I'm still looking for what I want to use. Im now rocking 3x110 on a 243 frame with size 46 (europe) foot.
Very good video, You are totally right its connected with the foot size. I noticed the skates with smaller sizes have 76mm and shorter frames but they are not doing it for bigger sizes for some reason. Also i assume that people with bigger feet are usually also taller right ? So their center of mass is higher and if it's higher it's easier to lose balance.
Yes, higher people have higher centre of mass, so short people with large feet are the most privileged from the stability point of view :)
And that's why I'm in favour of using the foot size as a reference because then it doesn't really matter what is the relation between your height and foot size since you've been practicing balancing with this combination for your whole life.
Could rec skate manufacturers have known that for ages? 42.5 EU 4*80@270mm frame, 40EU 4*80@255mm frame. These were my and my wife's skates bought 15 years ago.
I think I've seen some recreational skates like that as well, with unusually large spacings between wheels. I guess it was exactly their reasoning, like on skates for small kids - they also have wheel base quite a lot longer than the boot, so they hardly ever fall.
I think that they know, but nowadays specialized skating is so small that manufacturer use strategies like "one frame to rull them all" in order to save money. The wealthiest companies, like Rollerblade, include a 255 mm frame for the 4x80 setup for the biggest sizes.
Bonsoir, Nazar. I wonder if you tried to rock a three-wheeled frame, for example back 2x110mm + front 100mm? Are the skates still stable? As you said, the problem with long frames is taking turns, which is why I asked you the question. Keep up the good job!
No, I have never put wheels of different sizes on a triskate. The configuration you suggested: 100-110-110 seems quite extreme to me, because there would be 5mm difference between the 1st and 2nd wheels, which has absolutely no practical benefit, in my opinion. But when skating my 3x110 there was slight rocker developing in it naturally with time (1st and 3rd wheels are consumed faster because of strides and turns respectively), so the middle wheel was bigger than the other two, working as a pivot point. The wheel sizes on that setup now are: 105-106-104.5, so there is about 1.5mm effective difference between wheels 1-2 or 2-3. And I must say it feels great, very manoeuvrable, much easier to turn and enter into slides than on flat 110-110-110. I think in this video was the last time I skated it with that "natural" rocker: ruclips.net/video/H8jQ2xIF6U4/видео.html But of course I wouldn't use them for high speeds, especially if you have symmetric spacing between the wheels, because it's not going to be stable.
As far as I know the only 3-wheel frames with a slight rocker of this kind built-in are the 3x110 from NN Skates. But on my flat Supersonic frame that rocker appeared quite soon as well, so if you don't change positions of your wheels in the frame and skate them for a while you'll get that rocker anyway and you can see for yourself how it feels.
@@NazarOnWheels I have one question About this natural rocker that everyone talks about.
So if I rotate my wheels just inside outside left right but not changing the place, natural rocker will develop, right?
But with time and wheels getting smaller and smaller, how the rocker will change? Difference between middle and outer wheels getting bigger, i.e. rocker more aggressive? Or because the middle wheels will contact the ground more, they will wear out faster and therefore the rocker will stay pretty much the same over the life of the wheels?
@@nikolaykalendzhiev9612 I think there isn't one simple answer to that. The thing is that when you start with a flat setup, your personal natural rocker will develop that reflects your style of skating. And if your skating is well balanced, in the sense that the wheels wear out more-or-less uniformly, the rocker should remain the same all the time. For my skating style it seems to be the case and I would define 3 main contributions to consuming my wheels:
1. front wheels are consumed more when pushing with toes during strides;
2. rear wheels are consumed more when doing sharp turns or power stops;
3. middle wheels are consumed more when breaking with a drag-stop or parallel stops or eventually during some slides (after steps 1 and 2 the middle wheels get more contact when sliding)
So for me all these 3 effects balance each other out keeping the rocker stable, and after I learned to skate decently I never changed my wheel positions. But, for example, if I would be doing primarily long-distance skating on some flat landscape, I would not be doing much of stopping and sliding, the dominant contribution to the consumption of my wheels would only come from step 1 (the strides), and that would not be a sustainable rocker of course, because over time your front wheels would become smaller and smaller, creating ever increasing lean forward in your natural rocker.
But I think this is quite rare, so if you skate normally, without any kind of movement being much more dominant over the others, the rocker should remain stable over the whole lifetime of your wheels.
@@NazarOnWheels For a few months, my setup is 4x100mm. The middle wheels have a hardness of 86A and the other 82A. The rocker effect occurred due to uneven wear.
@@DanielDaniel-oe4bg Wow! 100mm 82A? What wheel is that? With the outer wheels being so soft they will wear out faster than the harder ones, so the rocker will show up much quicker, but I wonder how sustainable it will be with time. They might keep wearing out faster, making the rocker deeper and deeper with time. And then it might behave not very nicely during slides when there is such a big difference in grip between the middle and outer wheels. I had for some time a similar configuration of 82A vs 84A on my flat 4x90 setup and I didn't really like it because of that grip imbalance... How is it working for you at 100mm?
great video, what do you think would be a better choice for me, my foot length is 261, shall I start with 4x90 or 4x80? advise, please. I am about buying the powerslide hc evo pro boot only
Hello, great video.
Can you help me please to decide buy, Seba Fr310 or flying Eagle supersonic?
Thanks.!
I think technically they are pretty much the same, but the FR one os stronger. So if you are on a heavier side FR would be more reliable for jumps. Otherwise if you’re lightweight or considering it primarily for cruising and long-distance skating, without too much stress on the frames, Flying Eagle would be perfectly fine.
Great video! I'm considering getting a 4x90mm 275 frame. I'm 45eu and I kind of struggle with the 4x80 243mm so far, it feels that somehow I lose balance sometimes with it, so I think it may be the size of the frame after watching your video. What do you think about it? Can I slalom with this kind of frame?
Yes, I'm sure it will be easier for you on a 4x90 frame from the balance point of view. But you also will be higher from the ground on 90mm wheels, which will require more strength in your muscles for the slalom tricks compared to 80mm. That is of course not to say that it is impossible; people also do slalom tricks on triskates with even bigger wheels, but I think it's important to acknowledge that you will exchange the better balance for more demanding muscle strength. But overall that size should be perfect for you, even though 4x84 might be even better specifically for slalom, being shorter. And needless to say that you certainly want a rocker in such a frame to do slalom.
@@NazarOnWheels Thank you! About the height I don't know if it'll make a big difference because it's the next 4x90 trinity frame, they claim it's lower compared to others. I'm also tall 1,87cm, 6 feet tall
@@felipenogueira7518 Ok, with the Trinity mount it's indeed less of an issue. But it's not rockered, as far as I know, so not really ideal for slalom, unless you put 84mm wheels on the sides
@@NazarOnWheels Thank you for your great video and comments about frame length and strength. This helps me a lot for my skating path.
Hi my boots are 38. I am 1.55 cm tall. I want to buy frame for my Seba High Light and make them tri-skates. Should I buy a frame that could hold 125 mm wheels and use it with 100 wheels? What is your recommended length for the frame?
Can i use speed skate frames on my size 46EU freestyle boot? coz it's
the only long 276mm 4x90 frame i can find. my current frame is 243mm 4x80. i don't plan to go larger than 90mm wheels for now.
As long as they have compatible mounts, you can for sure use it. I imagine that your freestyle boot uses the 165mm mount, so you just need to get a 4x90 frame in the same mount.
I am taller than you. I reckon 4x110 would be better for me, but all those set ups are too expensive. Add to that, not every boot fits my wide feet. Hard boots are quite uncomfortable for me and soft boots are probably not ideal at larger wheel sizes. Shop Task says they don't recommend soft shoes for people over 150lbs and I am. Choosing skates is hard.
Yes, I agree. Choosing a skate is hard. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by hard and soft boots. Structurally there are two categories of boots: hard shell boots with replaceable liners, and boots with integrated liners, and in both categories they can be harder or softer. But the general rule should be to choose a boot with hardness adequate for what you want to do on them, from soft fitness boots to super stiff carbon boots. And then choose a specific model of the boot based on your foot shape, which of course is best to test in a retail store trying different models. You can try to look up some model shape comparisons on Internet. From the models I've seen myself Seba CJ/SX have the widest shell, which seems to be even a little too wide for my wide feet. Then in a worst case you also consider a larger size boot, leaving some more space in the toe area. If you use a strong 45º strap and lace them tight, it will keep the heel in place, such that the foot won't move inside anyway. Also keep in mind that new skates never feel comfortable from the beginning, unless they are very soft, therefore you need several sessions for them to break in and better take the shape of your foot.
@@NazarOnWheels I currently use a larger boot, but people insist there is significant difference in control with well fitting boots. So I was trying to find a good fit. I am not even sure if that's significant to my mediocre skill.
I am also confused about frames. They don't seem to be compatible across manufacturers. Can I put a powerslide frame on a roller derby boot? Assuming both are 2 point mount systems? Or are there differences between even 2-point frames?
@@simstar6557 Well, the perfect fit is of course essential. What I mean is that if you can't find the perfect fit, you can sacrifice the perfect length, because the fit from the sides of the boot is very difficult to change in any given boot, while fixing the foot in the forward-backward direction is relatively easy just by lacing and 45º strap. So width of the boot is way more important parameter than its length.
Talking about the frames, I'm not sure I understand your question. Roller derby boots are for quad skates, not inline skates, as far as I know, so it's a completely different kind of skate. The inline skate frames with 2 mounting holes still come in different standards, like 165mm, 195mm, UFS. 165mm is the most commonly used for freeskating. So all frames of one specific standard will be consistent with the boots of that standard. So a Powerslide frame with 2 mounting holes would most likely have the 165mm standard and you would need a corresponding boot for that. For example the Seba CJ I mentioned before is has the UFS standard, so it's not readily compatible with 165mm mount frames unless you use an adapter, which would slightly compromise the rigidity of the whole setup.
@@NazarOnWheels roller derby does make inline skates, although they are far better known for quad skates. Their elite inline line has replaceable frames but they dont bother to specify the mount. I am assuming it is a 2 pt 165mm by default since they have 125 and 110 presumably via the same frame. I wish they were explicit.
Very good video. Not much to add.
You explain very clearly the basics that every serious practitioner should know, or at least, that every serious practitioner should be interested in. Thanks for the work.
An idea for a next video in this series: why not talk about the 3 types of standart frame mounting, 165/195mn, trinity and UFS.
If you are considering a video about rockering, I would like to draw your attention to this new type of rockering, which is very popular in hockey today:
www.marsblade.com/roller-hockey
o7
Thank you for the suggestions! I am going to talk about the mounts in the next or next-to-next video. But I was planning to talk only about UFS and 165/195mm because these are the only ones I have and because these are the most popular and open standards, whereas Trinity is proprietary. Furthermore if I'll talk about Trinity, I should probably also talk about the Quattro from Adapt, which is even less widespread. I can mention them at least to tell what's the technical reasoning behind those mounts....
And thanks a lot for the link! I haven't heard about it before. The concept looks really interesting. I still didn't completely understand how exactly it does what they claim, but I will study it :)
Ciao...posso sapere che numero hai di scarpe? Grazie..
EU40
Interesting video, but wish you went more into the benefits of / reasons for choosing a short frame; like tight, agile crossovers and such without clipping wheels. Freeskaters who don't do anything too aggressive or wizardy should be capable of balancing on a short frame. And the feeling of some instability is surely part of the thrill of skating.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, you're right. I was concentrated too much on longer frames, not balancing it with an example for shorter frame use cases, which certainly are important as well. I think I'll make a follow-up video on this topic to address some comments that I've received, and will mention this short-frame use case as well.
Non ho capito niente... ma sono comunque d'accordo con te :)
Grazie :)
shoes def. have a larger base than feet
Well, we're talking a few mm difference here. But yes, I shouldn't have used the word "exactly" when talking about shoes :)
@@NazarOnWheels usually about an inch boots are more.
In under a minute, he called a NN 5x80 dragon frame a wizard frame, are you serious? OMG, this guy is so unprepared for his video and all over the place. Dude, I know what I know in skating and you can't keep me on track, I feel for someone who knows nothing and sees this.
Wow, there was a lot of bs in one video just to advertise a long frame for a company.
Stability isnt the main goal for skate companys to choose a frame length for a skate modell. 4x80 is the perfect and most versatile frame length for the average freeskater or even fitnessskaters.
The most common foot size for men according to the shoe industry is size 41. That is also what skate shops confirm by the sales figures. So your claim most men have bigger feet is plain wrong.
The center of mass remains the center of mass and doesnt change the place no matter how long the frame is as long as the frame is centered under the foot.
Learning to inline skate means gaining balance. Why should a skater avoid it by using longer frames and strange rockering?
Inline figure skaters are using short triskate setups for best results and speed skaters are using long frames for best results.
If your are none of them stay in the middle and dont fall for stupid marketing or advertising like the skate frame influencers trying to push.
I didn't say that the centre of mass changes depending on the frame length, so I don't see what that comment was about. Concerning the size 41 being the most common, do you have the source of that information? Because I find it hard to believe. I mean it certainly could be true in some regions of the world, but in Europe I think it's bigger.
Now I guess you're saying that staying in the middle means sticking to 4x80. And I'm saying that staying in the middle is choosing what's right for your foot. If you happen to be EU41, lucky you. But if not, then maybe 4x80 is not for you. And I want to stress that I didn't advocate for a long frame, I just used the longest one I have to demonstrate the difference. Obviously for normal skating one should choose a frame that matches the foot.
come on dude, if that's a sale video then it's a very bad one. btw, are you size 47 and flying with 4x80 frames? if not be quiet please
This isn't a great argument; if the length of your frame/point of contact w/the ground didn't matter at all, why aren't we all using super tiny frames? Why aren't hockey players using 500mm frames, or 140mm frames? You don't think they'd feel incredibly hard to use? I didn't take his point to be "everybody needs big frames", just that that most common 243mm frames might not be ideal for everyone. People who are 6'3" with size EU47-48 feet might get a better skating experience by upping the size to make their body size a little bit. Nothing crazy, but maybe 273mm instead of 243mm would make a big difference if they're having trouble with balance. They could learn to use 243mm just fine, of course, we're just talking about what would be ideal.