How has this not been on Bad Gear yet?? | Synths That Time Forgot: Waldorf Kyra
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- In this edition of Synth’s that time forgot Zach's back in the studio with a rundown on the Waldorf Kyra! Check it out and let us know what you think in the comments!
0:00 Intro
6:45 Demo
15:09 Final Thoughts
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I own many synths. One of them is the Kyra. I have no problem with the Kyra what so ever. It is a top notch synth. Maybe the missing data wheel is a flaw, but the interface and architecture is so simple to work with that after a week, you don't miss a data wheel at all. Just listen to the strings this thing produces... This is a synth that - just like the Novation Summit (I also own) sound or can sound VERY DARK. On top, it has the binaural function the UDO has. And it offers 8 stereo audio streams @96Khz over USB with 128 voices! This is not a synth. The Kyra are 8 poly synths! You just need to spend time with the Kyra. Only then it will reveal its true power!
How many presets ship with kyra?
Come on. It sounds generic AF. And 8x generic AF is still very very generic AF.
It took 3 months after this, but it did happen on Bad Gear.
It probably would be on Bad Gear if someone sent him one. He seems to stick to stuff he can easily afford or ones that are loaned to him.
I smell a collaboration. Alamo Music could send him a loaner, perhaps....
‘Bad’ Gear episode needed on this one , Florian would still make some pristine grooves and harmonies with Kyra!
He would I believe ....
At first glance, it's ticking all the boxes.
Yeah, that Austrian cheapskate 😂
Pretty certain the udo super 6 uses fpga’s.
Correct for the oscilator. Which is the same thing for the peak and summit. FPGA oscillators, analog filters.
@@christinepaluch7967 Which is the big difference. Everyone obsesses about analog oscillators but in reality, high res digital ones can add in emulation to create the (minor) instabilities of a DCO and even a VCO. It's the filter where the real character is. If you look at the Mutable Instruments Shruthi and all the different filter modules she and others brought out - it changes the character hugely!
RME has been using fpga's in their sound cards for 20 years, if I am correct. Their stuff is high-end or maybe the highest end.
@@MrStupidHead its cool man. I own a summit and love it. I hear these comments alot about the summit, but it isn't what I hear, to me its instantly very hifi and has the potential to sound however you want it too. But never have I heard a udo super 6 and thought how sterile it sounded, far from it, would be great to own one(Hence my comment). Have a pro 2 as well which I also love. Personally I think the kyra suffered from its price point vs the iridium, but on the second hand market it looks interesting.
I own a Kyra (and a Peak). The Kyra sounds fat and lush. It has a "SuperSaw" mode where all of the oscillators are detuned and play together to produce an incredibly fat sound. You can apply over 50 effects to a multi patch, so the effects also give it a deep, rich sound. And you can stream output at 96 Khz to your computer, so the output qaulity is outstanding, with zero aliasing on high or low notes. And the knobs provide plenty of real-time inputs to change the sounds as you play.
I'd probably agree that the Kyra works best on pads and full sounds that show off it's abilities. If you're looking for a dirty raw sound with lots of artifacts and noise, than this isn't your machine. But professional musicians can always make sounds dirtier. Producing clean high resolution sounds with multiple layers and patches at the same time is the challenge. And the Kyra excels at this.
If you dont lke the Kyta, than you just don't understand everything that it can do and how well that it does it.
An FPGA is a configurable microprocessor basically. All it means is less latency, almost zero, in processing specific math and emulations, whereas a more general purpose CPU could take a long time to perform some specific functions. FPGAs are used in chip prototyping or for high bandwidth/low latency applications. A friend of mine uses them for video processing (mp4 conversion of RAW video data can be done in real time, for example). They can be very expensive.
And fixed logic paths instead of easily changeable, software driven logic.
Waldorf has yet to ship a finished product.
They don't abandon products. They continue to sell, which by definition means continued support. Lot of stuff I wish that would be true.
This synth sucks. I just got a Kurzweil K2700, which makes a lot of synths suck.
Wow, you can do a lot of multi programs on the Kyra. I hear it comes with ZERO. The Kurzweil has Double the polyphony. A sequencer, better sounds than almost anything.
@@RustyTonesJrYou have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're bragging about and comparing a workstation, a literal "I'm too dumb to program a synth" appliance, to an actual synthesizer. Congrats you bought a vst in a plastic box.
@@navigator8222 Sorry, but you've got this wrong. The Kurzweil K2700 with its VAST synthesis is a defining product in the history of synthesizers. It's worth reading up about. As for the Kyra I offer no opinion on that....
You have yet to communicate an intelligent thought.
I like the sounds.. and design is good.
Field Programmable Gate Array. It's basically a programmable circuit on a chip. FPGAs can often be much higher performance for specific tasks than, say, a DSP. I wrote the primary patch editor for the Kyra (in Edisyn). The Kyra does have interface issues, but think of it as basically very high voice count VA with a lot of capabilities.
You might add that FPGAs don't have any influence on the characteristics of a synthesizer per se. Using them is just just a way of designing your device.
FPGA = "field programmable gate array". a type of customizable digital logic chip
Somebody has to explain what it is, because the viewers here are going to think it's a chip for generating cold sterile sound ;-p
Search for MiSTer FPGA.
Yep. It's the difference between implementing algorithms in software on a general purpose processor, vs. implementing them much more efficiently in "bare metal" on your own dedicated custom chip. The traditional way of doing this would be to design and fabricate your own Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) but that's an expensive and difficult process. The killer advantage of a FPGA is that it's like an ASIC you can reprogram. You get the advantage of hardware-speed processing *and* the ability to fix problems and add new features. It also lets you design and build the electronics without first having to design/test/fabricate the chip set - they can go in parallel.
So, it's special in that it performs like a custom chip, but other than that there's nothing particularly "magic" about an FPGA.
Yes many people commented on the lack of support. It does sound good though imho. I like the design too (axel Hartmann I believe)
Same design as all current Waldorf desktop synths.
FPGA - Summit, Peak, Super 6. All of these are really great, but they all have analog filters and VCAs. The Kyra is all digital. I think the analog filters make a WORLD of difference when push comes to shove.
Digital filters can be just as good as analogue, as long as there is sufficient CPU power for the algorithms. Proof of this is the fact that there are some extremely good filter VSTs and plug-ins, and they are 100% digital. I guess the Kyra, in spite of its FPGAs, did not have sufficient computation power for proper filter algorithms to run at the same time as its synthesis algorithms.
@@vladsnape6408 In my experience...not really. This is where analog really shines. I have a great deal of experience with both VSTs and hardware synths, nothing is comparable to what an analog filter does. This is where the character of a synth often shines through with analog and hybrid synths.
Please send one to Jexus 🎃
I'm struggling to identify sounds that could not have been created on a 6 operator FM synth.
The first one couldn't have been, except for SY77/99 or Kronos
I got the impression, when it was originally being made in the U.K., that development was on going, then Waldorf bought it and renamed it from the Valkyrie to the Waldorf Kyra and that development wasn't finish. The rumor is that they bought the rights to the hardware only, then creator stopped all FPGA/Firmware development and wasn't hired to finish it off to a higher standard by Waldorf. BTW this could be true as there hasn't been an update to the firmware for over 2 years now. If so, then it looks like this was basically bought by Waldorf to stifle its development, only a few months before the release of the Iridium. OK taking off my tin hat now! 😊
That does sound quite plausible
I highly doubt that Waldorf would damage their reputation by releasing an unfinished product on purpose. If they wanted to stifle its development they could buy the rights then not manufacture it. More likely they had a disagreement with the original developer once production had already kicked off.
FPGA field programmable Gate array, gate = transistor.
Antelope Audio uses these instead of DSP for onboard effects in it's audio interfaces.
As far as the interface, it's not an Axel Hartmann design, so of course it seems different than other Waldorfs.
Personally I like how it sounds, but if you can't control wave scanning of wavetables, and it has them, no thanks.
Just got him. It´s great for production, in combo with DAW, already got beautiful sounds out of it. But there are certainly some practical things. But with the new update from Scaler, and multi timbral you can make some magic happening. Real fun to work with...
Nice rundown.
So .... I visited MusikMesse Frankfurt in 2018, and because few synth companies turned up, I spent a lot of time talking with Manuel Caballero and playing with the (as it was called then) the "Valkyrie". He asked if there were any stalls worth visiting and I said Waldorf (as they had just released the Quantum). And the rest is history. The Valkyrie styling was unashamedly a copy of the virus, and it was amazing to play (imho). But then the Kyra came out. The presets were a bit "meh" and certainly didn't do justice to the potential of the architecture. All the demos I've seen on RUclips have been truly awful, I couldn't believe it was (theoretically) the same instrument. Anyway, that's my claim to fame .... although given how poor the reception to the Kyra has been, perhaps I shouldn't admit it.
Regarding FPGA oscillators, i notice that you did not mention the UDO “Super-6”. Surely that one has loads of character and does not sound thin at all.
Hey Zach I think I'm doing it, its on sale and might be my best step before NORD. I'm hoping this will be the ultimate scoring machine. She'll be driven by MPC1000 and it has to deliver the super sonics. I want the best crisp to dollar ratio. Your vid helped push me over the edge. Thanks dude.
Ultimate scoring machine? Have you heard of the Kurzweil K2700? The Kurzweil will make you a better player. it's got 256 poly, gigs of user sample memory, 16 track sequencer, 88 hammer action keys. 16 zone keyboard. Insane multi patches. easy access to delay and verb. need I go on?
Yes bro 100% AudioPilz needs to do an episode on this.
Field Programmable Gate Arrays are not higher fidelity. They are more efficient. They are not new. They're good for fixed systems. Digiral is digital and the actual quality of the sound is not because of some sonic quality of the FPGA. They are field programmable logic arrays that basically create fixed format systems. They are more efficient than standard computer processors but much more expensive. The limitations of the system, using buttons to control things you would normally expect knobs or slides for, are probably due to the limited set of values the FPGA provides.
Owned a Kyra for nearly 2 years. Best sounding synth ever with the worst user interface of any synth I’ve ever worked with.
If Waldorf ever made a keyboard version with better “knob per function” control and a better UI- I’d buy it immediately.
It was the most frustrating synth ever to program, yet sounded amazing.
Harder to program than the DX7???
IMO doesn't sound too bad really. Still, wouldn't bother digging around for one... Very nice presentation and demo once again, Zach! 👍
The patch at 8:45 sounds very familiar. Can someone say which other synth has a very similar sounding patch?
I think this Kyra sounds amazing to me. What real issues it have?
Pretty much covers my experiences with the Kyra. Overloaded on the one side, underfeatured on the other, and an overall sterile clinical sound without character (from a technical standpoint this is good, but from a musical one not really). And the envelopes are improvable. Not sure if that's the reason why you mainly demonstrated pad sounds but if would have been for me. All that in a package that costs just too much - probably mainly doe to the cost of the FPGA chips.
It is a great plug out synthesizer. Just like the access Virus is. It can play 8 different sounds all together. To audio outputs or over usb.
Fpga thing is used a lot in video game restoration as a way of replicaticating old game system hardware. If I am understanding correctly you can code circuits, but its hardware based not emulation. So you could one machine could exchange its circuits to match a schematic. Ignoring roms and firmware, you can copy a lot of ICs. I guess this could intresting in a synth, espiciall one replicating rare hardware. But I doubt it would percievable sound better, just be performance gains and maybe effiency.
Its real Star trek stuff, at least my understanding of it
FPGAs were first marketed as a means to prototype ASICs. Their main benefit over CPUs is that you can program the FPGA directly to hardware instead of having to adhere to a CPU manufacturers pre-defined hardware setup using software. CPUs are linear in nature (one cycle at a time) while FPGAs can be configured to handle multiple messages at once (like different pins on an IC for example).
CPUs are the more general purpose, do it all option, while FPGAs are typically used as a dedicated piece of hardware designed for a specific purpose.
Can you revisit the Kyra. And demonstrate it's surround sound scape design capability. This is a great tool for music to movie.
For me Kyra sounds really amazing if you like this kind of sounds that is a bit cold. And the look and build quality are also outstanding for me. 8 multitimbral machine (you can play 8 different sounds at the same time for a really fat sound). Clean sound and built-in effects, 3 lfo:s, nice filters etc. It is really not a bad gear. For me at least. 😊
If you think the Kyra sounds 'a bit cold', just put an Hydra aside. (I own one as well as the Kyra) The Hydra sounds stone cold. Which is not a bad thing by the way...
@@sK3LeTvM1 Also a Hydra owner. It’s got a nice cold sound with great effects. ☺️
I really believe this could be a big trend in synthesizers if more good concepts pop up.
People used to talk the same way about digital synths after all.
Intellijel's Shapeshifter also utilizes FPGA
good looking bad gear
Interesting. I'm not a fan of the FPGA oscillators in the Novation Peak/Summit and the UDO Super 6. They sound cold and sterile to me. But the Kyra sounds surprisingly good for a digital synth. Better than most plugins that's for sure. But I already have a Virus TI2 keyboard which I love. I think there's too much overlap between the Virus and the Kyra to have both.
Waldorf continues to neglect their children and move laterally. Got rid of my Blofeld for how much it crashes and actually does not live up to its spec sheet. Waldorf bought the Kyra from a dude developing it with FPGA chips, and called it the Valkyrie. I wanted the kyra to be a rehash of a better Blofeld, but they abandoned it immediately.
Came here after seeing it on Bad Gear 😄
Wow.
I bought one and sent it back within 2 days, the interface is truly unpleasant. But my problem was the bugs, it kept staying on when turned off, the display also would turn itself off and the flashing lights would also become meaningless as the thing slowly stopped displaying what was being tweaked or adjusted, a true bad gear in its own right.
Talking of the access virus, I also had to send the ti snow back, brand new and every 4th or 5th key would not sound, I waited so long to get them and nothing but a disaster. Unfortunately I will not trust either for a long time, eventually I got a nord lead A1, rock solid.
From what I understand of FPGA, it’s way more efficient than using a general purpose CPU (like ARM chips) to do DSP work - but if they used the DSP design imbedded in Kyra’s FPGA to create a custom silicone chip of the same design, it really wouldn’t be any different in functionality or performance.
FPGAs are programmable chips, so you can instantly update it to be a completely different, or even better DSP or CPU, with a flash update. A benefit that won’t likely be utilized in Kyra.
Would love to hear from an FPGA/DSP expert on the topic. I understand FPGA are generally more expensive than mass producing custom DSP chips, so I don’t quite understand the benefit.
I have one, the sound is amazing but it is indeed not very pleasant to program despite the many knobs.
I think the fpga fell out of favor because low-cost processors have caught up in capability. The things you can get done in a Teensy is amazing for example, and it’s not a particularly powerful micro
All sounds a pretty using dual mode , and are wide open , this might be great for ambient , pads ect ... but it takes off all the density and presence we have in a more centered / mono sound .... struggling to find a review where people actually sound design stuff and show the synth capacities ....
Great video anyway for its purpose ...
Because there are not many out there! Never got one in my hands yet! There should be not so negative things around. We all theside as adults where we wanna spend our many, but even when i do not buy one, someone else can be a big fan of! I once had a synth were for me its limitations were its strength. Great is what inspires you...
Does it have an editor????Does it take internal sounds that can be processed through the unit??Can I take and process samples???
Random patch generator button needed (eg Korg Wavestate)
It has 4 stereo pair outputs. Why? I mean did you even read the manual?
Good title though, made me watch it.
The benefit of fpga vs software is the ability to emulate hardware most accurately, mainly because parallel operations vs procedural.
It’s like ACTUAL virtual analog. The UI has nothing todo with it though.
This series needs to come back.....Synths That Time Forgot.
Bro, your channel is becoming one of my fav’s. I think that synth sounds killer. The most important thing to me is that it can sit in a mix naturally with other machines. Do you guys have one for sale?
We do! Just the one we used in the video. If you want it, I’ll give it to you @ a steal
Beautiful sounding synth
@@asoundlabhow much
Im confused this is a synth or a powerful audio interface?
FPGA is way too generalized to mean anything and is just used by marketing as a means of hype.
It is like saying my computer uses a CPU. Ok... How powerful is that CPU? How well is it implemented into the system? Same with FPGAs. In a very overly-simplified view, CPU and FPGAs both read and compute binary messages. CPUs have to do it in a linear fashion while FPGAs can be configured to handle multiple messages at once. So to compare synths with FPGA oscillators is going to vary just as much as different VAs that use CPUs.
100% agree with this review. I bought it on launch. Waldorf abandoned the Kyra not long after release. I think there was one firmware update soon after launch, and then nothing. I loved how it sounded, but like others have said, very menu divey. I ended up selling mine last year for a big loss. I don't miss it.
So, if you replaced the Kyra, what did you get, or what will replace this???
1st awesome video bud
Sounds shiny and digital to my ear. Not bad but the interface is bonkers and I am a slow learner.
Just get a PolyBrute. Perfect for slow learners like you and me. I love mine. Lots of wins rather than frustration.
@@LesterH25 I have been looking at the PolyBrute and people are saying good things about it. I know analog synths much better than the digital monsters. Hydrasynth is a curve ball for me. Can't hit the curve apparently. Polybrute has lots of good stuff and probably more intuitive for programming. Thanks.
Where is Zac he was brilliant and informative
I was super excited for the synth as the Virus TI2 was abandoned and the original creator made it as a spiritual successor. But... all the points you raised are what turned me off. I'm a huge fan of the Peak for its close to knob per function. That too is an FPGA but the analog filter gives it character and warmth. The menu diving on that is there but it is thoughtfully implemented so the amount of "level 2, 3, 4" diving you have to do is limited. It's a real pity for the original creator that Waldorf couldn't have turned this into a monster. Sounds like a UI overhaul would have done it and satisfied certain users.
Modal uses FPGA, Opsix, Super-6.
It's not a new technology, actually a old one.
Has nothing to do with ARM or x86 or MC 68000.
It's not an emulation.
It's not a DSP like Virus.
Search for MiSTer FPGA.
Opsix is a Raspberry PI
It is now lol
I would never buy this because I had my lessons how important usability of a synth is. But I do like the clean sounds.
Never heard before, not the worst one. Had a MicroWave II in the 90s...
The three ingredients for a bad synth review: Somebody who has never put a hand on the synth, who can not afford it and is extremely pissed about that….
I love Waldorf gear, but this one was priced really high, and the next few releases from Waldorf seemed superior (?), so ultimately if I was in a position to buy a top-shelf Waldorf this one wouldn't be it.
it's not been on bad gear because it too expensive still just to make a joke video out of is my guess not only that more dead units in the wild than working ones i have found by looking at used market
I find the sound examples Almost depressing in how to incredibly dead they sound to me.
Weren’t these innsanely expendive?
I think most modern digital synths are FPGA. Zen Core engine is probably FPGA, too.
You can have DSP synths, FPGA synths and soft synths in a hardware shell like the Juno-X.
The Zen Core is a soft synth.
An fpga-based design (forget about the Field Programmable part, focus on the Gate Array Part) allows a highly paralleled design. Digital data gets clocked in step thru a series of tables, instead of an if-the-else cpu-based design. This is how Yamaha got the DX-7 core down to a few chips. It’s highly efficient, but the non-traditional design requires non-traditional programming and a different way of thinking. It is… difficult. Probably why Kyra has had few updates. Programming the sounds isn’t hard, but extending the architecture may only be understood by the original hardware designer. Something that Waldorf and father Korg are no doubt uncomfortable with.
2k?? Worth more than most modular rigs. Not feeling that
Everybody bitching about this and that : Give this mama to Chris Lowe and he'll squeeze
5 platinum albums using just this : people are to spoiled : period
Cheers 🥂
Haha! Yes! Saw PSB last year at the Hollywood Bowl and they BLEW New Order away!
@@asoundlab I like the classic PSB the new stuff is to modern to housey
Cheers 🥂
Dude... He'll squeeze the same out of free VST...
I love the Peak, and have one. It's not the contrived mess this one seems to be.
I love the sound of the Kyra, but I wouldn't buy one, this gent explains how janky it is: ruclips.net/video/1uKDbZTjjog/видео.html
And you add that the interface sucks.
I've already got the M-Audio Venom and Roland JD-Xi, which come with rubbish interfaces though sound awesome, that's as far as I go when it comes to "great sounding synths with mediocre design".
Poor explanation of FPGAs. Its actually a really interesting technology with which one can program virtually any circuit(s).
Not sure $2k is what I'd call "cheap"
I feel like Dune 3 does everything that Kyra can do and more.....but it can't do what the Waldorf M can do, which IMO is a modern classic. Kyra is also way overpriced.
Are you Rick Moranis ?
Not a fan of waldorf.... funny enough I get people always trying to trade me waldorf stuff for my eurorack and I lol. They always get chuffed... ya u bought junk ... I'd be chuffed when I realize late too
I thought I was the ‘only’ person who didn’t like the Peak/Summit sound, and maybe I now know why … the FPGAs … ? I think that what you refer to as ‘a hypermodern sound’, may come across as ‘sterile’ and ‘lacking any character’ to my ears …
I recently learned you can get a lot more character out of the otherwise very plain oscillator section using its distortion, which is a pretty Novation way of doing it tbh
Interesting I love my summit and find it crazy expressive and organic but this leaves me cold
FPGAs do nothing about the sound. It is merely a different processor chip instead of a standard microprocessor, that handles multi-tasking better.
What you’re thinking of, is both this synth and the Peak/Summit, use single cycle waveforms looped over and over, which results in a very accurate sound. Combine that with 0 pitch drift and no free running, you get a very clean sound. The “character” you’re looking for is in the imperfections, not the freaking machine its built on.
@@NOLNV1 like you run the whole thing into a drive pedal ?
@@mastermachetier5594 Ah, no Novation have put in drive for the oscillator section, before they are sent anywhere, so you can give them some more power and saturation right before filtering, and there's other drives in the chain too, this is a thing they did for Bass Station 2 as well, which has two overdrives at different stages too, very good sounding ones at that.
I don‘t even find the look beautiful. I‘d rather expect it in a hospital than in a studio, and accordingly it sounds: sterile.
Worst explanation of FPGA I've ever heard. FPGA is a compute platform that perfectly mimics classic circuits. Resistors, capacitors, IC chips replicated with incredibly low latency. Really doesn't necessarily have anything to do with fidelity. The FPGA architecture allows this synth to have 16 part multi-timbrality with mod matrix and all of the features in a low cost, cooled synth in a small form factor. Honestly man. Pretty low informed criticism to trash talk what will eventually be a classic masterpiece.
Nice design, bad sound.
Haha... great idea putting another channels series name in the title then not even linking his channel in the bio... This guys has zero personality compared to my favourite German
Who is gonna see this and go “I’ve never heard of Bad Gear and it’s too bad I don’t know how to find it”?
Austrian.
Waldorf milking the rich kids with serious G.A.S. but this one was too much even for the soy bunch. Too bad coz the box sounds nice for 200-300 USD.
Get to the point! Cut all the chit chat about nothing. Does it generate good sounds or not? Is the poly genuine or fake? Quit wasting poeple time. See you.
Your comment was a waste of time
crazy that the alpha Juno’s used fpgas in 1985 so nothing new
ALAMO MUSIC + BAD GEAR. THE 2 BEST SYNTH CHANNELS ON THE RUclipsS
It really bothers me the way the music industry uses the word digital. If you're comparing it to a computer, an FPGA is a lot closer to analog than digital. It's just that if you ask an electrical engineer it's digital because "digital" to an engineer means "primarily made out of switches". it's like calling the sequencer on a moog modular system digital because it's also "primarily made out of switches". It's kind of ridiculous.