Late to the game here with Kyra, but I just picked one up on the second hand market and I must say I love it. The biggest selling point for me was the fact that it is class compliant and it works with iOS. I plugged it into my iPad and there it was MIDI and all. The effects on the Kyra are standard quality but since I can have 8 parts ( 4 stereo ) I run it through AUM and use all the great iOS FX I need. I can use Cubasis to sequence my parts, add effects etc and I have a self contained unit and mobile rig. The sound quality is superb and the offline processing of synths in Kyra let my iPad or MacBook breathe better. Yes the head scratching omission of a data entry wheel is profound. The inclusion of the 4,096 waveforms is great, but, those two increment buttons are going to take a beating going through them. My work around so far is to save the banks I like as Init programs and so I can access them in less time and button pushes. The waveforms are AKWF sound sets and are freely downloadable so in theory you can use them in other applications and get a feel for what they are in a different more user friendly environment. All in all I am impressed so far and it's limitations have led me to think outside the box.
Thank you Mr. Shoebridge. Your video made me buy the Kyra after 2 years. I was afraid to have a lot of overlap with my Virus TI or Summit, but at the end the Kyra sounds different. Biggest flaw is the missing data wheel, and the Reverb that does not match the Kyras' sound quality.
Sound quality is top notch. I almost considered buying one, but rediscovered my Waldorf Q with 3 oscillators , 2 subs, 2 wave tables, 2 filters, 3 LFOs, 4 Envelopes, 32 voice, 16 part, arpeggiator, and a sequencer. Sound quality doesn't compaire,, a programmer's dream. Plenty of knobs to tweak. Most have dual function. Not as much menu-diving as Kyra. The on-board sequencer on the Q makes all the difference.
Only got one used for a fair price ... and I am still in the exploring phase ... so ... thanks a lot for this documentary ... it helped me a lot to understand the concept of it ...
When I first saw the thing on the internet , I thought Waldorf were releasing a plugin to compete with Nexus or something like that ; but then I realised that this machine is a hardware synth . It surely does look like a render I have to admit since the interface is so clean and neat . It seems to me that it is a high end tabletop synth with tons of features .It sure sounds fantastic .
Kyra was developed by a man who introduced that at NAMM, then he got contract with Waldorf for releasing it. That's probably the reason why it's different from Quantum.
Thank you Tim for simultaneously talking me into buying a Kyra, while talking me out of buying a Kyra. Though if there were a keyboard version I’d already own it :)
Love this video Tim - it's so much better than a clinical review which you normally get. I was sat on the fence about getting one now I know which way to jump :)
Well worth the time watching what is a very honest and fair review. My feelings: complicated, much menu diving and and rather similar to my 20 year old 48 kHz Alesis Quadrasynth, that does have ADAT.
Thanks for your review. It's similar to what I thought of the Kyra after I got hold of it. The basic sound is really good, really clean and musical. You can get used to the user interface (I mean, I own and,ove thr Yamaha AN1x) but true, there's some room upwards. Though you indeed can adjust the ring/noise level with a knob by activating Shift Lock and twisting the Pulse knob for Osc 1. ;) The things I didn't like about the Krya: the smooth attacks. I like sounds with hard clicky attacks, the Kyra can't do these as the first two wave cycles are always faded in to avoid clicks. Also the Hypersaw cloaking up the entire wave section. I ended up using oscillators and sub oscillators in dual mode to create hypersaw-like sounds just so I can add noise or octave layers. And finally the distortion and reverb effects just don't sound good to me. Any synth from the 90s can do these better. Not sure yet if I do a video on the Kyra too.
Looking at this I kept making comparisons to the Blofeld which I'm very familiar with. It seems it has a lot in common in terms of architecture, yet they seemed to have missed out on several key things, the lack of a data entry encoder (or two in the case of the Blofeld) being one, the missed opportunity of displaying envelopes in the display graphically another. Of course, you get far more voices, more oscillators, and soundwise the Kyra seems to have a smoother sound; I find the Blofeld rather harsh many times. But I'm missing the PPG (SSM 2044) filter mode and the comb filters, the sweepable wavetables, the switchable multi stage envelopes. Comparing it to the Virus, the filter architecture seems much simpler, which personally I feel is a good thing, as I could never get my head around the dual filter implementation in the Virus range, but it still seems that with all the other nods to the Virus, they missed that one. All in all an interesting synth, but it seems to be a step back from what I'd expect from Waldorf, given the price and the extensive front panel.
I'm using this synth to create lush big pads , connected to the input of the Iridium for granular processing , and that's the sound I've been looking for , the user interface it's not good , but right now we have two software options , sigabort and Edisyn , now that Waldorf is phasing out the synth , picked another one on 25% discount , as Electrical Engineer kind of understand the challenges of updating FPGA software , I'm good how it is , and glad discovered this synth .
Hi, Tim. I am very glad you did this video. I have a Kyra. Currently I run it through four stereo channels with four parts, but now I believe that since some of these parts are mono, that I can turn it into eight channels with the eight outs it features. This is very exciting since stacking patches, and controlling the levels on the faders on my mixer can double the four parts to eight by doing it that way. Thank you.
Perfectly timed. I'm in the market for some new gear and had considered the Kyra. After some brief reading up I ruled it out due to the lack of wavetable scanning. I'll certainly give this a watch and see if it changes my mind. After all your videos were one of the things that persuaded me to go for a Quantum.
Ok well I watched it. As always incredibly detailed and useful information. Alas your conclusion was as I had expected. Beautiful sounding machine but the drawbacks are too big to justify the spend right now. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on developments and if they address the UI and scanable wavetables then I'd be tempted. For now moment my purchase this month will have to go elsewhere.
The conclusion segment was critical for me, thank you for your being concise are articulating what is important like the stereo effects at the filter stage. Thumbs up and subscribed.
Superb video on the beast , that said i'm struglling to find a video that demonstrates its cappacity to be a VA , and do convincing analog synth classic sounds , all i hear is Virus / nord type of pads and , airy stuff , witch are beautyfull , illustrate the power of the engine , but can it moog ? jupiter ? Oberhiem quite a bit ?
Thanks for your thoughts, Tim. I was following this synth since it was the Valkyrie.. but honestly got a bit turned off when the Kyra arrived in its final form with no way of rack mounting it as a giant "desktop only" module (even rear VESA mount from NAMM removed). Given Iridium looks like a similar form factor and lists 19" rack kits as an option, then I hope those will also work for Kyra.. and I can begin to look at it again. I don't think it's finished evolving yet.. I think there's a huge potential still for Kyra to add a ton of new features, if Waldorf have Manuel on board actively working on this. With Valkyrie he was even planning to have swappable face-plates as new types of synthesis came in, so hopefully there's enough to work with in the Kyra panel layout anyway
Excellent overview thank you! Along with the summit the absolute state of the art as far as digital Synths available today....probably beyond both my budget and my ability (& I hatethe “ medical equipment 😏” design aesthetic ), but certainly could forgive it that due to amazing sound creation potential - maybe I’ll aspire to own one one day!(
Thanks Tim, so good! as a owner this is so useful, again thank you....waiting of the software editor which is being made by mystery Islands, but like everything with this beautiful synth is the waiting......such an informative video, again, thanks!
Excellent! I want a Waldorf synth at some point but not sure which one would get me in the territory of vintage electronica like Depeche Mode, Erasure and Tangerine Dream? Same with a Roland Jupiter or Fantom. Waldorf and Roland along with Moog are the classic trilogy of synths that classic electronica were made with some from Nord and Access Virus.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion in your review. I was planning on considering this and it's still thinking about it but I'm exploring other options at the same time that's more simplistic but yet still powerful.
I quite like mine, though tbh i've only begun to explore it. A lot of people lament the lack of a rotary encoder, and I understand that, but the Virus models (I have a TI2 and a Classic) don't have one, either. I like it for similar reasons, though - that being, the lush quality of it's sound. It does sound _very_ nice to me.
Some will remember this showed up at the trade shows under a different name from an independent maker who sold it to Waldorf - perhaps they want to keep the deeper wavetable stuff for the Quantum and other stuff developed internally.
Surprised about the lack of wave interpolation between the many waveforms. With Waldorf calling them 'kits' it almost implies that you can construct them into interpolatable wavetables, pity that isnt the case. Its undoubtedly powerful, the 128 voice count, the 8 parts, the effects and the multimode dual stereo filters should lend well for immense layered patches of all kinds from pads to drones, thats what i would use this synth for. Agree about those page menu buttons, they wont last long with that amount of menu diving.
@@mynameistechno you may be right, I'm not sure... I think they may add wave interpolation to it eventually, we'll have to see what the users want and say. I have a Quantum and i would still buy the Quantum over the Kyra even if the Kyra had the Quantum wavetable engine because theres an additional 4 synth engines on the Quantum, and i think thats what potential Quantum buyers will be interested in, and would overlook the Kyra even if it had wavetable functionality. With Novation regularly giving out free updates, such as the new wavetable creator, it seems odd to even slightly handicap the Kyra by leaving similar functionality out on a synth in a similar price bracket to the Summit. The Kyra certainly has the horsepower to do it. As a Virus TI replacement though, i think perhaps its easily good enough as it is, and perhaps that is the business model and the thinking behind it?
@@mynameistechno What a stupid marketing move :)) Many many VST synths now have waveform morphing. It's not something very special now. Waldorf is ruining it's great name. It's pitty.
Thanks for an excellent review, Tim :) I only missed sound demos of the FX section. Perhaps a good Roland styled stereo chorus effect can replace dual mode? My impression of the synth is, that the sound is more focused to the mid range frequencies. I feel that upper and lower infrequence spectrum is suppressed somehow. No rumble bass or any peaks at the top end, so to speak. Keep up the good work on RUclips, Tim ;-)
I absolutely agree about the number of waveforms. They all have the Waldorf signature, but who needs them anyway. In the first (!) MicroWave I spent already days and days by skipping through the single waveforms of the Wavetables. It sounded good, but those were the analogue filters and VCAs. I prefer a few good sounding basic waveforms and shaping functions.
Bit late on that one, I know. :-) But still: would you be so kind and tell me which drum plugin you used for this demo, Tim? Thank you. Apart from my question: excellent demo, again. I just love your style of explaining things and stating your opinion about them in an honest but respectful way. Your video on the UDO Super 6 actually was sort of the reason for me to finally decide to get one. And the flaws you mentioned about it matched those that stuck out for me 100%. They still haven't fixed the polyphony / retriggering bug, actually. Don't know why I never stumbled upon neither the Kyra nor your video on it... maybe because it's all digital. But watching it now - I'm sort of interested. Thanks again.
Waldorf didn't know what the hell to do with it. During trade shows the reps knew nothing, the patches were terrible/non-existent, the amount of advertising was pretty good but no good demo tracks at all. Then for the longest time no good demo tracks, many reports of bad software bugs, bad support. Oh and the price was too high, put into competition with higher end synths. It was DOA. Is it a good synth? I don't know but it sure is complicated and your demos and full rundown was very nice.
been waiting for a critical review of this! thanks! also there are some really interesting stereo things happening in the filter section, seems to pan a little left and right on as is sweeps passed each step in the harmonic series.
Tim, another well detailed video and nice demo. My honest opinion about this musical instrument, is it’s ‘nothing new’ we haven’t heard before in a plethora of other synths? I agree it does have some impressive specifications, but even when Manuel had the prototype (Valkyrie) it failed to impress a lot of people because it just wasn’t anything we haven’t heard before. I appreciate Waldorf have re-market today and turned it into something more impressive, but for £2000 I think there’s a lot of choice out there before rushing out and buying this....
Dear Tim. Thank you for this film. I own a desktop Iridium (wich I love) and I am not shure, if I should buy the Keyboard Iridium or the new Quantum MK2. Which rythm-machine did you used on this video? Warm regards Andreas
Thanks Tim for the thoughts on the Kyra and some of the sounds. I think the Quantum is a more desirable synth if you can muster up the extra cash. I’m not sure Waldorf have honestly set the price of the Kyra correctly, you can buy a new desktop Virus TI for £1522 and the cheapest I can see the Kyra is £1749 at a reduction. I assume some shops have discounted to try a shift their stock. Why buy a Kyra when you still can get a new TI for less? To make it more attractive to buyers I think its price needs to be set around £1499 or less.
@@BurkhardusX Kyra has dropped in price to around £1590 which makes it a more attractive buy. The Kyra is certainly better in it’s output stage than the Virus.
I'm still getting used to the synth but not mad about how they have setup the filter. I hope they allow you to route one filter into the other in a firmware update and kinda wish they kept the patch editor that the Valkyrie had. Oh and when you enable the 2nd filter it only operates on osc 2, as in filters are split between osc 1 and 2. Oh and mystery island are developing a vst gui editor, so that's a bonus
You would think a simple firmware revision could reassign a seldom used knob on that hardware to function as the plus minus buttons. That UI improvement alone would make this more attractive. Software editor is another option with the ability to assign a midi CC to navigate plus minus would be fine as well. Now cheap on Thommann so I wouldnt mind having compared to original price.
Hello Tim, great video., before starting making music we need to know the capabilities of our synth., so I find your video very helpful and interesting. Im considering this synth very seriously. Now in 2021, with a price of 1.555 euros (1803,52 dollars) and the current updates, do you think this is a fair price for what this synth can offer. The launch price in Spain was 2099 euros (2434,46) to me that makes a great difference. greetings from Spain.
Kyra is one of the best VA synth I have ever tested. Bold and strong voices compared to Virus TI2 and the 128poly and 8multi is super enought to make Kyra the core part of an inspiration flow. Maybe the UX is not the best, sometimes a little bit confusing compared to Digitakt flow but still ok.
Bought myself one used only three weeks ago ... and its all your fault ... ;-) Thanks to this video ... it shaped my opinion !!! Looks like the free time for the next months is gone .... Cheers and Thanks Tim
Take 8 instances of any good (some good are even free!) VST and you'll get sound _better_ than this! Believe me, I've tried a lot of VST and even made few plugins by myself.
Thanks for the video there. Since you have structured it into chapters it would be nice to see a toc with timestamps so we can jump there if we’re interested in certain aspects. Ps: I like the close cam on the synth
Hey Tim, do you think this fantastic pads from the Kyra can be created on the Iridium? Those string sounds getting my heart, but the Iridium touches my brain and would give me much more sound design capabilities. Also I do have a summit, which is also great at pads. I am not to sure if the Kyra would be a good fit - just for the pads.
I think that by utilising samples you can get amazing pads on the Iridium but also so much more. Have you checked out this pad sample library I developed for both the Iridium and Quantum? It hopefully gives you some ideas about the possibilities... ruclips.net/video/i219dEkLlsM/видео.html
Surely a "big" synth, and the Waldorf sound is in my opinion pretty unique, but when I see you pressing the same few buttons over and over again, I wonder how long they will last mechanically. For purely digital synths, like this one is too, my software-synths are good enough and a mouse or a keyboard is much cheaper then having a hardware button replaced.
sorry Tim, i watch this video maybe 3 years too late but im interested at this time on a second hand KYRA and want to collect information about this machine. really nice explatations you made from the gear. the wish you have to integrate samples into the synth engine is not possible. the undertandings of that is grounded by the FPGA infrastructure of audio devices. a FPGA doenst allow a realtime access to the audio processes of the machine. FPGA means a kind of ROM chip, they do the audio processes. there is no audio software inside for manipulating things like data import, play, cut, fade pcm waveforms or something like that. this is a kind of car engine, they build at once and the only thing you can do is, giving control from knobs, sliders, encoders and so on. there is no player software for user interaction with dynamic memory or things like that. this is the reason why FPGA systems are really fast, with very low latency and extreme stable during the work with that. the control user interface is separated from the audio processes and have a own control processor and an own operation system like Linux as example. the communication between the user interface and the FPGA are simple serial data only like MIDI or RS232 as example. there is no space for PCM sample data and no way to import during the FPGA is working. the FPGA programming himself is a small bundle of kB or MB of data and cant include a scaleable storage for sounds. please compare this with a racing car and you want to exchange the gear during a race with 300 km/h at the same time. it is simple not doable.
you are totally right about too many options being confusing in the creative process. that synth is basically every possible synthesis in 2020 in one high quality box. king of like a glorified plugin cast in hardware. id rather have 4 different synths with 4 simpler engines and 4 different sounds. like you said stepping through gazillion parameters with buttons is absolutely unacceptible. still another amazing german audio engineering masterpiece. im german btw. :-) your review beats anything by loopop because he just reads down the manual and you are a musician.
Almost as if the same r&d people from Access jumped ship and went to Waldorf. I'm very disappointed that Access-Music stopped Mac OS software development for the Virus TI beyond Mac OS 10.14. I'm a Mac user and the Virus TI was the foundation of my production. Does the Waldorf Kyra have software gui similar to the Virus TI?
What an excellent demo Tim. If it were £1299 I’d buy one in a flash. I personally thought it sounded Glorious. I have a question about it I am very tempted . The reverb is it one reverb algorithm that you can adjust the parameters of or are there multiple reverb algorithms like plate, hall shimmer etc? I like the sound of this a lot and never owned a virus so can’t compare but I really like what I’m hearing/seeing.
Just one algorithm which is a shame because the thing is so powerful, you would think they would have thought about that before they released it. It’s such an excellent sounding synth, very hifi, but I have a couple gripes with it... even though I got it for $1500. Lack of different effects algorithms, lack of looping envelopes, unable to see a visual representation of the filters like on the blofeld, and the oscillator tuning knob isn’t continuously variable... it steps for each semitone... which wouldn’t be a problem normally, but when you hard sync the oscillators and want to sweep the tuning knob manually, you heard the stepping, and lack of data knob. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to program with a data knob.
@@NateHorn I actually saw that the other day….. still tempted but I think my sound design/music has moved in a different direction, still think it’s a great piece of kit.
@@jayonbaby Maybe you meant the new M - I didn't know that it is so expensive - but it has actually only 8 voices...there again we find an analog filter per voice, and even an analog VCA, but not in a VA but a WT synth.
You put a lot of thought into this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I don't think the full potential of the Kyra has been reached. I contacted Waldorf a few weeks ago and inquired about an update. They got back to me and said that they've been in touch with the developer and that an update is on the horizon. They haven't abandoned it. Although it's a niche instrument, I love my Kyra. It doesn't have all the functionality of the Iridium (which I also own), but the thoughtful USB integration makes both the integration and workflow a breeze. Because of this, I myself working with it more than my Iridium. It feels like a well integrated hardware plugin, and it synergies with the way I like to work. Although I'd like to see it, I'm not disappointed at the lack of 3D wavetable support. Not having to fiddle with every feature under the sun is liberating.
I already have an Access Virus Ti2. I'm new to production (been a DJ for 20 years). Currently been piecing my studio together. I'm keeping the Virus. However, recently, I've been offered a brand new Kyra for $1000.00 (still in the box). I know the the Kyra has serious potential and innately is more powerful than the Virus (with FPGA architecture), however, the patches seem inspiring. I'm afraid that Waldorf may not support the Kyra (last update was 02/2020). Any recommendations on purchasing it at this price point? I now it has immense potential but as of now... it's just that.
@@ErwinSchrodinger64 So. You did not get a response, sorry to see that. But, did you get the Kyra. If so, was it a keeper, were you loving it or not. I am looking to buy another synth. Maybe a Kyra????
@@tommyg5095 Yes, I did get it. Bottom line: I would recommend it with some caveats. It's powerful and while it's sonically beautifully with richness, it's nothing like the Virus in its capabilities. However, this is limited because of its program interface that could be fixed with updates (none have been available). The problem I see with the Kyra is that it's difficult to extract its power because of it's limited UI (double edge sword). For instance, de-tuning the oscillators and even applying the filters... it's hard to find any sweet spots. You turn the knob(s)... nothing... nothing... then you get this beautiful crescendo... it's gone. You spend so much time attempting to dial in a sound and get there only to change another parameter and you've lost the harmonic richness. I must say, I've created some patches that are absurdly beautiful and complex but have almost been defeated. UI: very easy to understand. Much easier than the Virus. Very well layed out and the effects matrix is so powerful and yet so easy to use. There is menu diving but it's very uncluttered. It's simple but sometimes too simple, in the sense, I wish it was a little more descriptive. The arp. is limited, of course, you will need any external sequencer. I'm currently utilizing a Pioneer Toraiz Squid and Arturia Key Step Pro. Luckily both sequencers allow a high polyphony which captures the Kyra's capabilities. I'm still new to all this. My studio is still incomplete. Hence, my interaction with the Kyra has been limited. I only have enough room for 8 synthesizers. I've also purchased a Waldorf Iridium. That hand's down is the most incredibly complex but beautifully executed synthesizers I've encountered. A sound designers dream. On the other hand, when it comes to supersaws, I think the Kyra still has the edge. Honestly, of all the brands I have: Korg, Pioneer, Roland, ASM Hydrasynth, and Waldorf... Waldorf, hands down, has the most intuitive and simplist interfaces in the market. I've never thought I would grow to like that brand as much as I do now.
@@ErwinSchrodinger64 thanks for your update.. Ahhh, I too just bought an Iridium, it shows 9 hours of use, so basically new, new to me, as of two weeks ago.. Yesterday, through Reverb, I finally ordered the 61 key Virus Ti2. It should be arriving in 2 days. As for your Pyramid, I've looked seriously at the Squarp Hapax, probably will get that for a sequencer, but I do have the Deluge. Amazing how fast we aquire the kit, as for me, there is more money than time... I really need to invest in more time in the studio. That is my biggest problem.
@@tommyg5095 same here. I have 13 synthesizers in my arsenal but work and relationships take much of my time. I have the Toraiz Squid sequencer (not the Pyramid): ruclips.net/video/ar-9g2KZRoo/видео.html I also have a Korg Kronos II (a power house of a workstation but the worse UI, I've yet to encounter) couple with an Akai Live II. Looking to get one more sequencer. I've thought of both the Pyramid and Hapax. Yes, I have the same problem as you. Not enough time. Oh, with the Virus, make sure to utilize some computer interface. It will make its application much easier.
I'm no hardware expert, but I imagine the reason why they aren't wave table oscillators is due to their FFPGA architecture. If I'm not mistaken, the oscillator chip is being reprogrammed every time you change waveforms, so there isn't a way to interpolate between them. It's basically like it comes with 4096 different oscillator chips and each time you change waveforms it's changing out which chip it's using. There's no 'halfway' chips. It can only ever be one of those 4096 waveforms at a time. The UDO super 6 has the same limitation if I'm not mistaken.
There's probably a way you could implement an FFPGA true wavetable synth, but it would require different circuitry in order to have multiple different waveforms loaded at the same time. For an 8 waveform wave table, for example, you would likely require a separate FFPGA chip for each waveform, and then another chip that then interpolates between them. (Could probably make due with just 3 oscillator chips, but then you'd be limited in how quickly you could scan between the waveforms by how fast you could reprogram that spare FFPGA to the next waveform.) If price is proportional to how many of these chips you have inside the hardware and wanted to keep the same price, fidelity, and feature set, that would likely mean you'd lose your 8 part timbrality and have a 16 voice monotimbral synth (or 8 voice stereo). Not that such a synth wouldn't have merit, it'd just be a wildly different synth. Note: I realize that when I say 'chip' it doesn't actually have to actually mean a separate physical chip. It can simply be a portion of a larger FFPGA chip. You could probably design a chip that could load up the entire wavetable and do the requisite interpolation between all of them given the current wavetable position. You'd then just be reprogramming the portion that stores the waveforms each time you load up a new wavetable. My point still stands that it would likely require a hardware redesign, and isn't something you'd be able to accomplish with just a firmware update. (Unless the entirety of the synth architecture is run on a single FFPGA chip, in which case they just might be able to reprogram it in such a way as to lose timbrality to gain wavetable functionality.)
Yes I've read people say this about FPGA before. But Novation have managed to implement wavetable interpolation in their Peak and Summit, including non-fixed user supplied wavetables. It's just a series of zeros and ones at the end of the day. Both synths are FPGA. So it's possible.
@@TimShoebridge I think it's dependent on how FFPGA is used, and how much extra space it has. If it's the case that the entire synth signal chain is implemented on a single FFPGA, then it's probably more feasible to reprogram it in such a way to support wave tables (perhaps at the cost of timbrality or voices). However, if it just uses a series of FFPGA chips connected by copper on a PCB, it's probably much harder if not impossible. Just because they both use FFPGAs doesn't automatically mean they are both going to same capabilities. FFPGAs, while digital and re-programmable, are still hardware. It's not like software where you can just throw more CPU cycles at something in order to get a calculation done. Your hardware implementation has to have enough physcial space and the required ins and outs to implement the circuit you want, which also has to include the memory required to store the waveforms.
@@TimShoebridge Reading through the manual a bit more, I did find out that it's a single FFPGA chip, which makes implementing wavetables easier. However, if you wanted to do a wavetable with 8 waves, my understanding is that you'd basically need an additional 7 oscillators per oscilator (these are real, physical oscillators, mind you, implemented in hardware. The only practical difference between them and an analog oscillator is that an ffpga oscillator has 16 outputs that are either 0V or 5V and an analog oscillator has a single output that is between 0V and 5V. In the super 6, in fact, they simply have a DAC circuit on the end to do this conversion from digital to analog to send this to their analog filters.) My naive understanding is that you'd need a bare minimum of 1 physical gate in the FFPGA to store each bit of each sample in each waveform. Since these waveforms are 16bit 32x over-sampled, I'm assuming that means you would need 16*(32*337) = 172,544 gates per waveform, per oscillator, per voice. With 7 additional waveforms, 2 'macro oscillators', and 128 voices, that means you'd need room for 128*2*7*172,544 = 309,198,848 more gates, at the bare minimum. This isn't counting the gates needed to implement the interpolation between the 8 waveforms. Although, to be fair, that amount is probably negligible compared to the amount of gates required to store the waveforms themselves. You could potentially steal oscillator space from the subs, fixed waveforms, and aux, but you'd still need 3 more physical oscillators per 'macro oscillator', or '6 more per voice', than it currently has in order to implement 8 wave wavetables. This would come down to needed at least 128*6*172,544 = 132,513,792 more gates. Either that or you'd have to start sacrificing voices to make room for the additional oscillator space you would need. Granted, this is all just speculation using my basic knowledge of circuits from computer systems class in college and what my naive assumptions about how you would go about implementing a wavetable osccilator in an FFPGA. There might be a better way to implement wavetables in circuits that would require dramatically less storage.
@@TimShoebridge TLDR: asking them to implement true wavetables on the Kyra might be the FFPGA equivalent of asking them to just 'download 16-38MB more RAM, bro, it's all just 0s and 1s.' (For comparison, the Octatrack mk.II, a $1,500 dedicated hardware sampler, only has 80MB total RAM dedicated to storing flex tracks and recording buffers for all 8 of it's tracks combined.) User defined waves would probably be much easier to implement if you could overwrite some of the ones currently stored on the device.
Just part way through watching - at 13:40 - The individual waves in each wavetable are not supposed to sound like 'electric guitar' etc.. they are tables that are meant to be swept through to produce a sound which would fit those names (at least is my assumption.. if you can't sweep them that would be pretty dumb) - EDIT.. I watched until the end.. you can't sweep the tables????? what were they thinking! :) - seems like the first batch of 20 tables would be user modifiable ones - although I would not know for sure. Interesting review so far - might be nice to compare with Hydrasynth (which I have, and found much more intuitive to use than the Kyra (which I had previously tried at NAMM)) - Waldorfs newly annouced desktop synth based on the Quantum looks good though.
Just want to add that I found out later that the much of the wave-set is actually taken from AKWF FREE (free single cycle waveforms) - a huge resource from 'Adventure Kid' - this is mentioned in the Kyra user manual. I got a copy of that wave-set myself to check it out for potential usage in my own synth programming projects - and I don't think they are ordered in typical wave-table sequences.. just grouped by categories, and so it seems Kyra just took the whole set and categories as is - so sweeping tables that are not laid out in a way designed for being swept may not be good anway.. however.. being able to sweep your own lists would be useful (like on Hydrasynth). I think this is a case of less would = more.. ease of use.
Why there is no full wavetable stuff going on in the Kyra? Maybe because Waldorf has a small side business occasionally selling wavetable synthesizers alongside the Kyra? :D In a somewhat related matter: Please name an 8-part multitimbral VA synth with lots of voices and 8 individual outs that's cheaper than the Kyra?
Tim, would you recommend the new Waldorf Iridium, only because you said the Kyra wasn't worth it with the other options out there? I'm just thinking with Omnisphere 2 being a pluggin I have whether its worth it for 2k as there are other things I'm liking the look of like the Pulsar 23 which you can't find in VST! Thanks
Jake Daniel I have not had the privilege of trying out an Iridium but on paper it looks brilliant and has many excellent improvements on the Quantum. I think the range of capabilities in both the Iridium and Quantum make them pretty unique in the market right now.
why don't they make Kyra as a keyboard? it's probably the best module on the market, but I'll probably prefer the Novation Summit because it's a compact instrument
It is an FPGA. With 128 voices I am not surprised that wavetables aren't real wavetables. There could be easily a bottleneck because the internal memory on the FPGA is likely insufficient to store 4096 waveforms, and has to use external memory. With 32x oversampling this can be a problem. The TI total integration works so awful that one can be glad that they did not implement something similar. The TI has huge timing problems, not this thing though. What do I have from 8 parts if the damned TI does not play them correctly?
When you try to do "something similar" does it sound kinda like the Quantum ? Hard to say from the demo...but seems to have also a kinda hi fi tone about it ?
I think the Quantum gets that reputation due to the many factory presets that are wavetable based and are unfiltered so can be hard and brittle to the ear. At the end of the day for me personally both synths will output what is programmed, both can sound really warm if you want them to. I think the Quantum is really amazing, hugely flexible and I use one an awful lot but I do think the filters in the Kyra sound better to my ear, the resonance is more contained, more musical. Reminds me of an Dreadbox Erebus' 2-pole LPF in many ways.
@@TimShoebridge I have a Quantum...i really love it. when i say kinda "Hi fi" is not in a negative way. Not everything has to sound like a Moog of something. Just was mentioning that in terms of "Sound Charater" this (from the demos) seems more similar to it, than t Moog / something similar for example.
Don’t count on Waldorf ever updating the firmware in a significant way. They are notorious for abandoning their products. It took them years to get the Blofeld to where it should have been from the beginning. The Pulse 2 interface is crippled beyond belief and when I asked them if they would ever update it, they said “We’re too busy with the Quantum”. I think with the Quantum they actually are putting a lot of effort into the firmware, but it’s an exception and it seems they don’t give a crap about anything else they make.
Ok I should clarify. I do own a Blofeld and currently it works fine. It’s one of my favorite synths and doesn’t have the cookie cutter interface that plagues the Pulse 2. In fact, I think that’s what frustrates people the most, is that Waldorf designed an optimal interface for the Blofeld but got downright lazy with the Pulse 2 and refuses to do anything about it. Blofeld was plagued by bugs in the first years of its launch and I think some still remain so some research on that is warranted, but in my usage I haven’t come across any. On the other hand, I also have a Novation Ultranova and it’s also great, and their track record is way better than Waldorf. Look at what they did with the Bass Station II...years after its release and they upgraded it with features that make it almost a new synth!
As far as Kyra firmware goes, it has the potential as a synth to evolve more than any other synth ever. Being fully FPGA it can add so many new features without hardware restrictions.. however Manuel made the firmware (for the Valkyrie) so it really depends on if Waldorf have a contract setup with him where he periodically works on Kyra OS updates still..
@@Wagoo and that would be ideal, id pay the guy myself! as you say so much potential, but obvious that Waldorf have their minds on Quantum and Iridium... :{
Hi, kyra vs hydrasynth question: which is more versatile (putting effects aside)? Which sound more realistic? Which would you buy if you could have only one synth and nothing else? Thanks!
Hi, I'd love to give an opinion but the hydrasynth is an instrument that I have not managed to get my hands on yet. hopefully someone else can comment.
Late to the game here with Kyra, but I just picked one up on the second hand market and I must say I love it. The biggest selling point for me was the fact that it is class compliant and it works with iOS. I plugged it into my iPad and there it was MIDI and all. The effects on the Kyra are standard quality but since I can have 8 parts ( 4 stereo ) I run it through AUM and use all the great iOS FX I need. I can use Cubasis to sequence my parts, add effects etc and I have a self contained unit and mobile rig. The sound quality is superb and the offline processing of synths in Kyra let my iPad or MacBook breathe better. Yes the head scratching omission of a data entry wheel is profound. The inclusion of the 4,096 waveforms is great, but, those two increment buttons are going to take a beating going through them. My work around so far is to save the banks I like as Init programs and so I can access them in less time and button pushes. The waveforms are AKWF sound sets and are freely downloadable so in theory you can use them in other applications and get a feel for what they are in a different more user friendly environment. All in all I am impressed so far and it's limitations have led me to think outside the box.
How many presets come with it?
Your demo of Kyra made me order it today. Thank you for this excellent presentation. I will come back to this video when my synth arrived.
Hi! How’s the Kyra? I’m looking to buy one in a few months:)
Thank you Mr. Shoebridge. Your video made me buy the Kyra after 2 years. I was afraid to have a lot of overlap with my Virus TI or Summit, but at the end the Kyra sounds different. Biggest flaw is the missing data wheel, and the Reverb that does not match the Kyras' sound quality.
Haha you make the best review videos! I love how thorough, organised and honest the videos are. Keep up the great work!
Did you get one?
Sound quality is top notch. I almost considered buying one, but rediscovered my Waldorf Q with 3 oscillators , 2 subs, 2 wave tables, 2 filters, 3 LFOs, 4 Envelopes, 32 voice, 16 part, arpeggiator, and a sequencer. Sound quality doesn't compaire,, a programmer's dream. Plenty of knobs to tweak. Most have dual function. Not as much menu-diving as Kyra. The on-board sequencer on the Q makes all the difference.
I have both a 32voice Q and the Kyra. But they sound very very different...
Only got one used for a fair price ... and I am still in the exploring phase ... so ... thanks a lot for this documentary ... it helped me a lot to understand the concept of it ...
Fantastic overview. An amazing synth with unique character and quirks. Some of the smoothest sounds I've heard from any synth. Top form as always Tim.
That design is so clean it looks like a render
I agree, it's not until Tim actually starts turning knobs that it actually starts looking like something physical, and hardly even then.
When I first saw the thing on the internet , I thought Waldorf were releasing a plugin to compete with Nexus or something like that ; but then I realised that this machine is a hardware synth . It surely does look like a render I have to admit since the interface is so clean and neat . It seems to me that it is a high end tabletop synth with tons of features .It sure sounds fantastic .
@@ricardlupus Thanks God, is not full with rainbow led's :)
Look like a reindeer
Excellent Tim! I've been loving my Kyra for months 😃
Really enjoyed that - exactly the type of overview that hits the spot for me. Thanks Tim.
Kyra was developed by a man who introduced that at NAMM, then he got contract with Waldorf for releasing it. That's probably the reason why it's different from Quantum.
Wow! This is great!!! Thanks for the awesome videos! If you can make a comparison video between this and Waldorf Quantum, that will be super helpful!
Thank you Tim for simultaneously talking me into buying a Kyra, while talking me out of buying a Kyra. Though if there were a keyboard version I’d already own it :)
Great demonstration, Mr Shoebridge. It sounds glorious in your hands.
Love this video Tim - it's so much better than a clinical review which you normally get. I was sat on the fence about getting one now I know which way to jump :)
Well worth the time watching what is a very honest and fair review. My feelings: complicated, much menu diving and and rather similar to my 20 year old 48 kHz Alesis Quadrasynth, that does have ADAT.
You really made a thorough analysis mate...thanks for such an accurate investigation....very much appreciated review...
4096 waveforms, 10osc per voice (or even 4), 132 voices and 8 parts - this is like 4 poly synths for the price of 1! Thanks for the deep dive Tim
A fantastic overview of a synth I thought I wanted, but the few negatives are just too big for me. Thank you Tim.
Update: I ordered one today. Your vid here helped immensely, thank you.
around 9.44 Beautiful chord progressions with beautiful pad sound
Thanks for your review. It's similar to what I thought of the Kyra after I got hold of it. The basic sound is really good, really clean and musical. You can get used to the user interface (I mean, I own and,ove thr Yamaha AN1x) but true, there's some room upwards. Though you indeed can adjust the ring/noise level with a knob by activating Shift Lock and twisting the Pulse knob for Osc 1. ;)
The things I didn't like about the Krya: the smooth attacks. I like sounds with hard clicky attacks, the Kyra can't do these as the first two wave cycles are always faded in to avoid clicks. Also the Hypersaw cloaking up the entire wave section. I ended up using oscillators and sub oscillators in dual mode to create hypersaw-like sounds just so I can add noise or octave layers. And finally the distortion and reverb effects just don't sound good to me. Any synth from the 90s can do these better.
Not sure yet if I do a video on the Kyra too.
Looking at this I kept making comparisons to the Blofeld which I'm very familiar with. It seems it has a lot in common in terms of architecture, yet they seemed to have missed out on several key things, the lack of a data entry encoder (or two in the case of the Blofeld) being one, the missed opportunity of displaying envelopes in the display graphically another. Of course, you get far more voices, more oscillators, and soundwise the Kyra seems to have a smoother sound; I find the Blofeld rather harsh many times. But I'm missing the PPG (SSM 2044) filter mode and the comb filters, the sweepable wavetables, the switchable multi stage envelopes. Comparing it to the Virus, the filter architecture seems much simpler, which personally I feel is a good thing, as I could never get my head around the dual filter implementation in the Virus range, but it still seems that with all the other nods to the Virus, they missed that one. All in all an interesting synth, but it seems to be a step back from what I'd expect from Waldorf, given the price and the extensive front panel.
I own a Kyra, but I do miss my wavetable scanning. Hope they introduce it in a new update.
Tim Shoebridge I believe I will buy the Waldorf Kyra +5 years from now, used.
Love it, but i feel I can wait for this.
I'm using this synth to create lush big pads , connected to the input of the Iridium for granular processing , and that's the sound I've been looking for , the user interface it's not good , but right now we have two software options , sigabort and Edisyn , now that Waldorf is phasing out the synth , picked another one on 25% discount , as Electrical Engineer kind of understand the challenges of updating FPGA software , I'm good how it is , and glad discovered this synth .
I have to try this
Hi, Tim. I am very glad you did this video. I have a Kyra. Currently I run it through four stereo channels with four parts, but now I believe that since some of these parts are mono, that I can turn it into eight channels with the eight outs it features. This is very exciting since stacking patches, and controlling the levels on the faders on my mixer can double the four parts to eight by doing it that way. Thank you.
Yes, your comment about adding PCMs is a good one too for a future update.
Also, I use this synthesizer much for this kind of music: ruclips.net/video/ujhahrUuTfU/видео.html. So you don’t have to use it for just pads.
Perfectly timed. I'm in the market for some new gear and had considered the Kyra. After some brief reading up I ruled it out due to the lack of wavetable scanning. I'll certainly give this a watch and see if it changes my mind. After all your videos were one of the things that persuaded me to go for a Quantum.
Ok well I watched it. As always incredibly detailed and useful information. Alas your conclusion was as I had expected. Beautiful sounding machine but the drawbacks are too big to justify the spend right now. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on developments and if they address the UI and scanable wavetables then I'd be tempted. For now moment my purchase this month will have to go elsewhere.
The conclusion segment was critical for me, thank you for your being concise are articulating what is important like the stereo effects at the filter stage. Thumbs up and subscribed.
even though i've long since lost interest in this synth, no wavetable scanning?!, i'm so glad to see a proper vid about it. thank you tim.
Superb video on the beast , that said i'm struglling to find a video that demonstrates its cappacity to be a VA , and do convincing analog synth classic sounds , all i hear is Virus / nord type of pads and , airy stuff , witch are beautyfull , illustrate the power of the engine , but can it moog ? jupiter ? Oberhiem quite a bit ?
Those excerpts you present are beautiful. My background is in the classics.
The best audio product review I have watched in a long time. Bravo.
New subscriber.
Thanks for your thoughts, Tim. I was following this synth since it was the Valkyrie.. but honestly got a bit turned off when the Kyra arrived in its final form with no way of rack mounting it as a giant "desktop only" module (even rear VESA mount from NAMM removed). Given Iridium looks like a similar form factor and lists 19" rack kits as an option, then I hope those will also work for Kyra.. and I can begin to look at it again. I don't think it's finished evolving yet.. I think there's a huge potential still for Kyra to add a ton of new features, if Waldorf have Manuel on board actively working on this. With Valkyrie he was even planning to have swappable face-plates as new types of synthesis came in, so hopefully there's enough to work with in the Kyra panel layout anyway
Wagoo agreed, the Iridium for me.
Excellent overview thank you! Along with the summit the absolute state of the art as far as digital Synths available today....probably beyond both my budget and my ability (& I hatethe “ medical equipment 😏” design aesthetic ), but certainly could forgive it that due to amazing sound creation potential - maybe I’ll aspire to own one one day!(
Excellent demo. I like the features and so many options. Tricky navigation. I prefer the sound of the Solaris, but this has better FX options.
I really love the format of your videos .. very informative.. Thankyou
Thanks Tim, so good! as a owner this is so useful, again thank you....waiting of the software editor which is being made by mystery Islands, but like everything with this beautiful synth is the waiting......such an informative video, again, thanks!
Excellent! I want a Waldorf synth at some point but not sure which one would get me in the territory of vintage electronica like Depeche Mode, Erasure and Tangerine Dream? Same with a Roland Jupiter or Fantom. Waldorf and Roland along with Moog are the classic trilogy of synths that classic electronica were made with some from Nord and Access Virus.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion in your review. I was planning on considering this and it's still thinking about it but I'm exploring other options at the same time that's more simplistic but yet still powerful.
Very nice and extensive review. Thank you!
Wow, thats powerful and also a bit overkill to me. I just wish they would power up the Blofeld a little bit with their new technology.
Extra pair of outs, slightly better processor and better pots on the Blofeld and they'd sell like hotcakes - well overdue a v2!
I would kill for that. Love the blofeld
I quite like mine, though tbh i've only begun to explore it. A lot of people lament the lack of a rotary encoder, and I understand that, but the Virus models (I have a TI2 and a Classic) don't have one, either. I like it for similar reasons, though - that being, the lush quality of it's sound. It does sound _very_ nice to me.
Some will remember this showed up at the trade shows under a different name from an independent maker who sold it to Waldorf - perhaps they want to keep the deeper wavetable stuff for the Quantum and other stuff developed internally.
Yup. Exodus Digital. I remember how excited I was for the Valkyrie back then. All the promising potential was gone with Waldord getting involved.
those filters sound gorgeous
Surprised about the lack of wave interpolation between the many waveforms. With Waldorf calling them 'kits' it almost implies that you can construct them into interpolatable wavetables, pity that isnt the case.
Its undoubtedly powerful, the 128 voice count, the 8 parts, the effects and the multimode dual stereo filters should lend well for immense layered patches of all kinds from pads to drones, thats what i would use this synth for.
Agree about those page menu buttons, they wont last long with that amount of menu diving.
My guess is that they dont want to have a true in-house cempetitor to the Quantum. Its like the old powerhouse duo Microwave > Q.
@@mynameistechno you may be right, I'm not sure... I think they may add wave interpolation to it eventually, we'll have to see what the users want and say. I have a Quantum and i would still buy the Quantum over the Kyra even if the Kyra had the Quantum wavetable engine because theres an additional 4 synth engines on the Quantum, and i think thats what potential Quantum buyers will be interested in, and would overlook the Kyra even if it had wavetable functionality.
With Novation regularly giving out free updates, such as the new wavetable creator, it seems odd to even slightly handicap the Kyra by leaving similar functionality out on a synth in a similar price bracket to the Summit. The Kyra certainly has the horsepower to do it. As a Virus TI replacement though, i think perhaps its easily good enough as it is, and perhaps that is the business model and the thinking behind it?
@@mynameistechno What a stupid marketing move :)) Many many VST synths now have waveform morphing. It's not something very special now.
Waldorf is ruining it's great name. It's pitty.
Thanks for an excellent review, Tim :) I only missed sound demos of the FX section. Perhaps a good Roland styled stereo chorus effect can replace dual mode? My impression of the synth is, that the sound is more focused to the mid range frequencies. I feel that upper and lower infrequence spectrum is suppressed somehow. No rumble bass or any peaks at the top end, so to speak. Keep up the good work on RUclips, Tim ;-)
Those filters are special!
27:46 Oh yeah, just lovely (ouch!)
I absolutely agree about the number of waveforms. They all have the Waldorf signature, but who needs them anyway. In the first (!) MicroWave I spent already days and days by skipping through the single waveforms of the Wavetables. It sounded good, but those were the analogue filters and VCAs. I prefer a few good sounding basic waveforms and shaping functions.
Very useful run through of the Kyra features, thanks a lot.
Bit late on that one, I know. :-) But still: would you be so kind and tell me which drum plugin you used for this demo, Tim? Thank you.
Apart from my question: excellent demo, again. I just love your style of explaining things and stating your opinion about them in an honest but respectful way. Your video on the UDO Super 6 actually was sort of the reason for me to finally decide to get one. And the flaws you mentioned about it matched those that stuck out for me 100%. They still haven't fixed the polyphony / retriggering bug, actually.
Don't know why I never stumbled upon neither the Kyra nor your video on it... maybe because it's all digital. But watching it now - I'm sort of interested.
Thanks again.
Thanks Tim, great presentation.
Waldorf didn't know what the hell to do with it. During trade shows the reps knew nothing, the patches were terrible/non-existent, the amount of advertising was pretty good but no good demo tracks at all. Then for the longest time no good demo tracks, many reports of bad software bugs, bad support. Oh and the price was too high, put into competition with higher end synths. It was DOA. Is it a good synth? I don't know but it sure is complicated and your demos and full rundown was very nice.
Because it's not their synth, they just bought a concept synth off some guy
@@X-101 Their name is on it and they are selling it.
been waiting for a critical review of this! thanks! also there are some really interesting stereo things happening in the filter section, seems to pan a little left and right on as is sweeps passed each step in the harmonic series.
Thanks for your review. I was considering it, but the UI is a deal-breaker for me
love the fact that although you have all the latest music tech you are still using a mobile from the last millennium! my kinda prioritizing!
Tim, another well detailed video and nice demo. My honest opinion about this musical instrument, is it’s ‘nothing new’ we haven’t heard before in a plethora of other synths? I agree it does have some impressive specifications, but even when Manuel had the prototype (Valkyrie) it failed to impress a lot of people because it just wasn’t anything we haven’t heard before. I appreciate Waldorf have re-market today and turned it into something more impressive, but for £2000 I think there’s a lot of choice out there before rushing out and buying this....
Dear Tim. Thank you for this film. I own a desktop Iridium (wich I love) and I am not shure, if I should buy the Keyboard Iridium or the new Quantum MK2. Which rythm-machine did you used on this video?
Warm regards
Andreas
Thanks Tim for the thoughts on the Kyra and some of the sounds. I think the Quantum is a more desirable synth if you can muster up the extra cash. I’m not sure Waldorf have honestly set the price of the Kyra correctly, you can buy a new desktop Virus TI for £1522 and the cheapest I can see the Kyra is £1749 at a reduction. I assume some shops have discounted to try a shift their stock. Why buy a Kyra when you still can get a new TI for less? To make it more attractive to buyers I think its price needs to be set around £1499 or less.
@@BurkhardusX Kyra has dropped in price to around £1590 which makes it a more attractive buy. The Kyra is certainly better in it’s output stage than the Virus.
I'm still getting used to the synth but not mad about how they have setup the filter. I hope they allow you to route one filter into the other in a firmware update and kinda wish they kept the patch editor that the Valkyrie had. Oh and when you enable the 2nd filter it only operates on osc 2, as in filters are split between osc 1 and 2.
Oh and mystery island are developing a vst gui editor, so that's a bonus
You would think a simple firmware revision could reassign a seldom used knob on that hardware to function as the plus minus buttons. That UI improvement alone would make this more attractive. Software editor is another option with the ability to assign a midi CC to navigate plus minus would be fine as well. Now cheap on Thommann so I wouldnt mind having compared to original price.
Hello Tim, great video., before starting making music we need to know the capabilities of our synth., so I find your video very helpful and interesting. Im considering this synth very seriously. Now in 2021, with a price of 1.555 euros (1803,52 dollars) and the current updates, do you think this is a fair price for what this synth can offer. The launch price in Spain was 2099 euros (2434,46) to me that makes a great difference. greetings from Spain.
Excellent video. Love the no nonsense. I already ordered the Matriarch, gonna go broke watching your channel.
Kyra is one of the best VA synth I have ever tested. Bold and strong voices compared to Virus TI2 and the 128poly and 8multi is super enought to make Kyra the core part of an inspiration flow. Maybe the UX is not the best, sometimes a little bit confusing compared to Digitakt flow but still ok.
Iridium or Kyra?
Which is better and for what purpose?
Thanks Tim! Be good to get your viewpoint on the U.D.O Super 6 if you have thought about purchasing that synth?
Bought myself one used only three weeks ago ... and its all your fault ... ;-) Thanks to this video ... it shaped my opinion !!! Looks like the free time for the next months is gone .... Cheers and Thanks Tim
Cheers Tim, another great video. Are you keeping the Quantum?
666JGNotts Thanks a lot. Yes definitely. It fills a void for me, there’s very little overlap with any of the other synths I own 👍
That is a synth orchestra. Nice but complicated.
Take 8 instances of any good (some good are even free!) VST and you'll get sound _better_ than this!
Believe me, I've tried a lot of VST and even made few plugins by myself.
Most intelligent review I’ve heard to date
Beautiful sounding like my TI2 Darkstar Virus..
Thanks for the video there. Since you have structured it into chapters it would be nice to see a toc with timestamps so we can jump there if we’re interested in certain aspects. Ps: I like the close cam on the synth
does kyra have functional encoders - would be nize for a waldorf
Hey Tim, do you think this fantastic pads from the Kyra can be created on the Iridium? Those string sounds getting my heart, but the Iridium touches my brain and would give me much more sound design capabilities. Also I do have a summit, which is also great at pads. I am not to sure if the Kyra would be a good fit - just for the pads.
I think that by utilising samples you can get amazing pads on the Iridium but also so much more. Have you checked out this pad sample library I developed for both the Iridium and Quantum? It hopefully gives you some ideas about the possibilities... ruclips.net/video/i219dEkLlsM/видео.html
No way
Surely a "big" synth, and the Waldorf sound is in my opinion pretty unique, but when I see you pressing the same few buttons over and over again, I wonder how long they will last mechanically.
For purely digital synths, like this one is too, my software-synths are good enough and a mouse or a keyboard is much cheaper then having a hardware button replaced.
sorry Tim, i watch this video maybe 3 years too late but im interested at this time on a second hand KYRA and want to collect information about this machine. really nice explatations you made from the gear. the wish you have to integrate samples into the synth engine is not possible. the undertandings of that is grounded by the FPGA infrastructure of audio devices. a FPGA doenst allow a realtime access to the audio processes of the machine. FPGA means a kind of ROM chip, they do the audio processes. there is no audio software inside for manipulating things like data import, play, cut, fade pcm waveforms or something like that. this is a kind of car engine, they build at once and the only thing you can do is, giving control from knobs, sliders, encoders and so on. there is no player software for user interaction with dynamic memory or things like that. this is the reason why FPGA systems are really fast, with very low latency and extreme stable during the work with that. the control user interface is separated from the audio processes and have a own control processor and an own operation system like Linux as example. the communication between the user interface and the FPGA are simple serial data only like MIDI or RS232 as example. there is no space for PCM sample data and no way to import during the FPGA is working. the FPGA programming himself is a small bundle of kB or MB of data and cant include a scaleable storage for sounds. please compare this with a racing car and you want to exchange the gear during a race with 300 km/h at the same time. it is simple not doable.
Those value buttons as opposed to a knob was the deal-breaker. Who made that decision????
Tim Shoebridge can you do a demo of all the Hypersaws/Supersaws you can come up with?
Disregard maybe, just viewed the first 6 demo
you are totally right about too many options being confusing in the creative process. that synth is basically every possible synthesis in 2020 in one high quality box. king of like a glorified plugin cast in hardware. id rather have 4 different synths with 4 simpler engines and 4 different sounds. like you said stepping through gazillion parameters with buttons is absolutely unacceptible. still another amazing german audio engineering masterpiece. im german btw. :-) your review beats anything by loopop because he just reads down the manual and you are a musician.
Almost as if the same r&d people from Access jumped ship and went to Waldorf. I'm very disappointed that Access-Music stopped Mac OS software development for the Virus TI beyond Mac OS 10.14. I'm a Mac user and the Virus TI was the foundation of my production. Does the Waldorf Kyra have software gui similar to the Virus TI?
What an excellent demo Tim. If it were £1299 I’d buy one in a flash. I personally thought it sounded Glorious. I have a question about it I am very tempted . The reverb is it one reverb algorithm that you can adjust the parameters of or are there multiple reverb algorithms like plate, hall shimmer etc? I like the sound of this a lot and never owned a virus so can’t compare but I really like what I’m hearing/seeing.
Just one algorithm which is a shame because the thing is so powerful, you would think they would have thought about that before they released it. It’s such an excellent sounding synth, very hifi, but I have a couple gripes with it... even though I got it for $1500. Lack of different effects algorithms, lack of looping envelopes, unable to see a visual representation of the filters like on the blofeld, and the oscillator tuning knob isn’t continuously variable... it steps for each semitone... which wouldn’t be a problem normally, but when you hard sync the oscillators and want to sweep the tuning knob manually, you heard the stepping, and lack of data knob. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to program with a data knob.
Checking in from the future - that's exactly what it's retailing for today!
@@NateHorn I actually saw that the other day….. still tempted but I think my sound design/music has moved in a different direction, still think it’s a great piece of kit.
It’s a bit steep with 8 voices. Who’s used it in hit recordings to justify the price? Great in-depth video though. Thanks
Quantum is 8 Voices, Kyra is 128.
@@pontram oh wow. I must’ve clicked the wrong link. 128 voice is different
@@jayonbaby Maybe you meant the new M - I didn't know that it is so expensive - but it has actually only 8 voices...there again we find an analog filter per voice, and even an analog VCA, but not in a VA but a WT synth.
You put a lot of thought into this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I don't think the full potential of the Kyra has been reached. I contacted Waldorf a few weeks ago and inquired about an update. They got back to me and said that they've been in touch with the developer and that an update is on the horizon. They haven't abandoned it.
Although it's a niche instrument, I love my Kyra. It doesn't have all the functionality of the Iridium (which I also own), but the thoughtful USB integration makes both the integration and workflow a breeze. Because of this, I myself working with it more than my Iridium. It feels like a well integrated hardware plugin, and it synergies with the way I like to work.
Although I'd like to see it, I'm not disappointed at the lack of 3D wavetable support. Not having to fiddle with every feature under the sun is liberating.
I already have an Access Virus Ti2. I'm new to production (been a DJ for 20 years). Currently been piecing my studio together. I'm keeping the Virus. However, recently, I've been offered a brand new Kyra for $1000.00 (still in the box). I know the the Kyra has serious potential and innately is more powerful than the Virus (with FPGA architecture), however, the patches seem inspiring. I'm afraid that Waldorf may not support the Kyra (last update was 02/2020). Any recommendations on purchasing it at this price point? I now it has immense potential but as of now... it's just that.
@@ErwinSchrodinger64
So. You did not get a response, sorry to see that. But, did you get the Kyra. If so, was it a keeper, were you loving it or not. I am looking to buy another synth. Maybe a Kyra????
@@tommyg5095 Yes, I did get it. Bottom line: I would recommend it with some caveats. It's powerful and while it's sonically beautifully with richness, it's nothing like the Virus in its capabilities. However, this is limited because of its program interface that could be fixed with updates (none have been available). The problem I see with the Kyra is that it's difficult to extract its power because of it's limited UI (double edge sword). For instance, de-tuning the oscillators and even applying the filters... it's hard to find any sweet spots. You turn the knob(s)... nothing... nothing... then you get this beautiful crescendo... it's gone. You spend so much time attempting to dial in a sound and get there only to change another parameter and you've lost the harmonic richness. I must say, I've created some patches that are absurdly beautiful and complex but have almost been defeated.
UI: very easy to understand. Much easier than the Virus. Very well layed out and the effects matrix is so powerful and yet so easy to use. There is menu diving but it's very uncluttered. It's simple but sometimes too simple, in the sense, I wish it was a little more descriptive.
The arp. is limited, of course, you will need any external sequencer. I'm currently utilizing a Pioneer Toraiz Squid and Arturia Key Step Pro. Luckily both sequencers allow a high polyphony which captures the Kyra's capabilities.
I'm still new to all this. My studio is still incomplete. Hence, my interaction with the Kyra has been limited. I only have enough room for 8 synthesizers. I've also purchased a Waldorf Iridium. That hand's down is the most incredibly complex but beautifully executed synthesizers I've encountered. A sound designers dream. On the other hand, when it comes to supersaws, I think the Kyra still has the edge. Honestly, of all the brands I have: Korg, Pioneer, Roland, ASM Hydrasynth, and Waldorf... Waldorf, hands down, has the most intuitive and simplist interfaces in the market. I've never thought I would grow to like that brand as much as I do now.
@@ErwinSchrodinger64 thanks for your update.. Ahhh, I too just bought an Iridium, it shows 9 hours of use, so basically new, new to me, as of two weeks ago.. Yesterday, through Reverb, I finally ordered the 61 key Virus Ti2. It should be arriving in 2 days. As for your Pyramid, I've looked seriously at the Squarp Hapax, probably will get that for a sequencer, but I do have the Deluge.
Amazing how fast we aquire the kit, as for me, there is more money than time... I really need to invest in more time in the studio. That is my biggest problem.
@@tommyg5095 same here. I have 13 synthesizers in my arsenal but work and relationships take much of my time. I have the Toraiz Squid sequencer (not the Pyramid):
ruclips.net/video/ar-9g2KZRoo/видео.html
I also have a Korg Kronos II (a power house of a workstation but the worse UI, I've yet to encounter) couple with an Akai Live II. Looking to get one more sequencer. I've thought of both the Pyramid and Hapax.
Yes, I have the same problem as you. Not enough time. Oh, with the Virus, make sure to utilize some computer interface. It will make its application much easier.
Very helpful, cheers for the awesome content (per usual) 😀
I'm no hardware expert, but I imagine the reason why they aren't wave table oscillators is due to their FFPGA architecture. If I'm not mistaken, the oscillator chip is being reprogrammed every time you change waveforms, so there isn't a way to interpolate between them. It's basically like it comes with 4096 different oscillator chips and each time you change waveforms it's changing out which chip it's using. There's no 'halfway' chips. It can only ever be one of those 4096 waveforms at a time. The UDO super 6 has the same limitation if I'm not mistaken.
There's probably a way you could implement an FFPGA true wavetable synth, but it would require different circuitry in order to have multiple different waveforms loaded at the same time. For an 8 waveform wave table, for example, you would likely require a separate FFPGA chip for each waveform, and then another chip that then interpolates between them. (Could probably make due with just 3 oscillator chips, but then you'd be limited in how quickly you could scan between the waveforms by how fast you could reprogram that spare FFPGA to the next waveform.) If price is proportional to how many of these chips you have inside the hardware and wanted to keep the same price, fidelity, and feature set, that would likely mean you'd lose your 8 part timbrality and have a 16 voice monotimbral synth (or 8 voice stereo).
Not that such a synth wouldn't have merit, it'd just be a wildly different synth.
Note: I realize that when I say 'chip' it doesn't actually have to actually mean a separate physical chip. It can simply be a portion of a larger FFPGA chip. You could probably design a chip that could load up the entire wavetable and do the requisite interpolation between all of them given the current wavetable position. You'd then just be reprogramming the portion that stores the waveforms each time you load up a new wavetable. My point still stands that it would likely require a hardware redesign, and isn't something you'd be able to accomplish with just a firmware update. (Unless the entirety of the synth architecture is run on a single FFPGA chip, in which case they just might be able to reprogram it in such a way as to lose timbrality to gain wavetable functionality.)
Yes I've read people say this about FPGA before. But Novation have managed to implement wavetable interpolation in their Peak and Summit, including non-fixed user supplied wavetables. It's just a series of zeros and ones at the end of the day. Both synths are FPGA. So it's possible.
@@TimShoebridge I think it's dependent on how FFPGA is used, and how much extra space it has. If it's the case that the entire synth signal chain is implemented on a single FFPGA, then it's probably more feasible to reprogram it in such a way to support wave tables (perhaps at the cost of timbrality or voices). However, if it just uses a series of FFPGA chips connected by copper on a PCB, it's probably much harder if not impossible.
Just because they both use FFPGAs doesn't automatically mean they are both going to same capabilities. FFPGAs, while digital and re-programmable, are still hardware. It's not like software where you can just throw more CPU cycles at something in order to get a calculation done. Your hardware implementation has to have enough physcial space and the required ins and outs to implement the circuit you want, which also has to include the memory required to store the waveforms.
@@TimShoebridge Reading through the manual a bit more, I did find out that it's a single FFPGA chip, which makes implementing wavetables easier. However, if you wanted to do a wavetable with 8 waves, my understanding is that you'd basically need an additional 7 oscillators per oscilator (these are real, physical oscillators, mind you, implemented in hardware. The only practical difference between them and an analog oscillator is that an ffpga oscillator has 16 outputs that are either 0V or 5V and an analog oscillator has a single output that is between 0V and 5V. In the super 6, in fact, they simply have a DAC circuit on the end to do this conversion from digital to analog to send this to their analog filters.)
My naive understanding is that you'd need a bare minimum of 1 physical gate in the FFPGA to store each bit of each sample in each waveform. Since these waveforms are 16bit 32x over-sampled, I'm assuming that means you would need 16*(32*337) = 172,544 gates per waveform, per oscillator, per voice.
With 7 additional waveforms, 2 'macro oscillators', and 128 voices, that means you'd need room for 128*2*7*172,544 = 309,198,848 more gates, at the bare minimum. This isn't counting the gates needed to implement the interpolation between the 8 waveforms. Although, to be fair, that amount is probably negligible compared to the amount of gates required to store the waveforms themselves.
You could potentially steal oscillator space from the subs, fixed waveforms, and aux, but you'd still need 3 more physical oscillators per 'macro oscillator', or '6 more per voice', than it currently has in order to implement 8 wave wavetables. This would come down to needed at least 128*6*172,544 = 132,513,792 more gates.
Either that or you'd have to start sacrificing voices to make room for the additional oscillator space you would need.
Granted, this is all just speculation using my basic knowledge of circuits from computer systems class in college and what my naive assumptions about how you would go about implementing a wavetable osccilator in an FFPGA. There might be a better way to implement wavetables in circuits that would require dramatically less storage.
@@TimShoebridge TLDR: asking them to implement true wavetables on the Kyra might be the FFPGA equivalent of asking them to just 'download 16-38MB more RAM, bro, it's all just 0s and 1s.' (For comparison, the Octatrack mk.II, a $1,500 dedicated hardware sampler, only has 80MB total RAM dedicated to storing flex tracks and recording buffers for all 8 of it's tracks combined.)
User defined waves would probably be much easier to implement if you could overwrite some of the ones currently stored on the device.
Just part way through watching - at 13:40 - The individual waves in each wavetable are not supposed to sound like 'electric guitar' etc.. they are tables that are meant to be swept through to produce a sound which would fit those names (at least is my assumption.. if you can't sweep them that would be pretty dumb) - EDIT.. I watched until the end.. you can't sweep the tables????? what were they thinking! :)
- seems like the first batch of 20 tables would be user modifiable ones - although I would not know for sure. Interesting review so far - might be nice to compare with Hydrasynth (which I have, and found much more intuitive to use than the Kyra (which I had previously tried at NAMM)) - Waldorfs newly annouced desktop synth based on the Quantum looks good though.
Wavesequencer perhaps you have a great point! I feel Nord Wave 2.0, Korg R3 and UDO Super Six can do more in this instance
Just want to add that I found out later that the much of the wave-set is actually taken from AKWF FREE (free single cycle waveforms) - a huge resource from 'Adventure Kid' - this is mentioned in the Kyra user manual. I got a copy of that wave-set myself to check it out for potential usage in my own synth programming projects - and I don't think they are ordered in typical wave-table sequences.. just grouped by categories, and so it seems Kyra just took the whole set and categories as is - so sweeping tables that are not laid out in a way designed for being swept may not be good anway.. however.. being able to sweep your own lists would be useful (like on Hydrasynth). I think this is a case of less would = more.. ease of use.
It sounds beautiful.
Why there is no full wavetable stuff going on in the Kyra? Maybe because Waldorf has a small side business occasionally selling wavetable synthesizers alongside the Kyra? :D In a somewhat related matter: Please name an 8-part multitimbral VA synth with lots of voices and 8 individual outs that's cheaper than the Kyra?
Tim, would you recommend the new Waldorf Iridium, only because you said the Kyra wasn't worth it with the other options out there? I'm just thinking with Omnisphere 2 being a pluggin I have whether its worth it for 2k as there are other things I'm liking the look of like the Pulsar 23 which you can't find in VST! Thanks
Jake Daniel I have not had the privilege of trying out an Iridium but on paper it looks brilliant and has many excellent improvements on the Quantum. I think the range of capabilities in both the Iridium and Quantum make them pretty unique in the market right now.
@@TimShoebridge You're doing great video's and i am subbed, thank you for your kind response
Unless you've got all week, 2 times the playback speed. Great review.
why don't they make Kyra as a keyboard? it's probably the best module on the market, but I'll probably prefer the Novation Summit because it's a compact instrument
Funfact: You can still buy Viruses new. At least here in Germany some music retailers still have them
very clear explanations and educated opinions. Subbed
You could perform in octophonic sound. I cannot afford such a sound system, but it’s beautifully Floydian.
There is one available at a store near me, used, for about $1500. Is it worth it for that price??
It is an FPGA. With 128 voices I am not surprised that wavetables aren't real wavetables. There could be easily a bottleneck because the internal memory on the FPGA is likely insufficient to store 4096 waveforms, and has to use external memory. With 32x oversampling this can be a problem.
The TI total integration works so awful that one can be glad that they did not implement something similar. The TI has huge timing problems, not this thing though. What do I have from 8 parts if the damned TI does not play them correctly?
I've thought that VA has no limits now... Seems that working with VST and some reliable PC/Mac station has much more perspectives!
@@KiR_3d The signal is processed at 32x sample rate. I want to see the computer doing that for 128 voices without clocks and pops.
I still want one. Waiting for the right $$$ in hand moment.
When you try to do "something similar" does it sound kinda like the Quantum ? Hard to say from the demo...but seems to have also a kinda hi fi tone about it ?
I think the Quantum gets that reputation due to the many factory presets that are wavetable based and are unfiltered so can be hard and brittle to the ear. At the end of the day for me personally both synths will output what is programmed, both can sound really warm if you want them to. I think the Quantum is really amazing, hugely flexible and I use one an awful lot but I do think the filters in the Kyra sound better to my ear, the resonance is more contained, more musical. Reminds me of an Dreadbox Erebus' 2-pole LPF in many ways.
@@TimShoebridge I have a Quantum...i really love it. when i say kinda "Hi fi" is not in a negative way. Not everything has to sound like a Moog of something. Just was mentioning that in terms of "Sound Charater" this (from the demos) seems more similar to it, than t Moog / something similar for example.
Don’t count on Waldorf ever updating the firmware in a significant way. They are notorious for abandoning their products. It took them years to get the Blofeld to where it should have been from the beginning. The Pulse 2 interface is crippled beyond belief and when I asked them if they would ever update it, they said “We’re too busy with the Quantum”. I think with the Quantum they actually are putting a lot of effort into the firmware, but it’s an exception and it seems they don’t give a crap about anything else they make.
I am wanting a Blofeld .
Harry Monk thanks ..I’ll check it out.
Ok I should clarify. I do own a Blofeld and currently it works fine. It’s one of my favorite synths and doesn’t have the cookie cutter interface that plagues the Pulse 2. In fact, I think that’s what frustrates people the most, is that Waldorf designed an optimal interface for the Blofeld but got downright lazy with the Pulse 2 and refuses to do anything about it. Blofeld was plagued by bugs in the first years of its launch and I think some still remain so some research on that is warranted, but in my usage I haven’t come across any. On the other hand, I also have a Novation Ultranova and it’s also great, and their track record is way better than Waldorf. Look at what they did with the Bass Station II...years after its release and they upgraded it with features that make it almost a new synth!
As far as Kyra firmware goes, it has the potential as a synth to evolve more than any other synth ever. Being fully FPGA it can add so many new features without hardware restrictions.. however Manuel made the firmware (for the Valkyrie) so it really depends on if Waldorf have a contract setup with him where he periodically works on Kyra OS updates still..
@@Wagoo and that would be ideal, id pay the guy myself! as you say so much potential, but obvious that Waldorf have their minds on Quantum and Iridium... :{
Hi, kyra vs hydrasynth question: which is more versatile (putting effects aside)? Which sound more realistic? Which would you buy if you could have only one synth and nothing else? Thanks!
Hi, I'd love to give an opinion but the hydrasynth is an instrument that I have not managed to get my hands on yet. hopefully someone else can comment.