@@matejkopa97 Exactly, they weren't carefully placed on planets but instead spread around like rice on the field, for all we know Cthun and the other Azeroth old gods could and are hinted to be WEAK in comparison to what an Old God can become
It gets interesting when you know that devs wanted to expand this information in Warlods of Draenor expansion. Unused assets indicates that some of the corrupted Arakoa were worshiping an old god being.
That never materialized because the designers realized the arakkoa already had their quite developed pantheon and made a much better story that focused on existing lore. So we got more on Rukhmar, Anzu and Sethe. There was an insectoid race early in WoD alpha called scorpar, but they were also removed and in the end, the role of Old Gods was taken by the Primals, the hostile plant faction.
@@ArakkoaChronicles there is a archeology items that hint that the old god was still there under draenor trying to whisper for followers. I like to think that in on a really early era on draenor that old god landed on draenor but he was defeated and trapped underground by the elementals.
I always thought that the Outlands Old God was something that was _suppose_ to grow into an equivalent to C'Thun, but when Draenor was ripped apart at the end of the Second War, it too was ripped apart as well, leaving behind a weak and crippled creature instead of an Empire-Spanning God.
I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I think the biggest reason why it never developed fully might be because there was never a world soul on Draenor. It's like a seed that's dropped in soil that's not quite right for it, so it just becomes a small bush instead of a tree, as it were.
maybe that is how the void find world souls in the first place, maybe they send weeker versions of old gods first, if they find a would soul they end up sending more stronger forms like the named old gods we have on azeroth. like azeroth does have those weeker old gods like Iso'rath in the twilight hinterlands
You connected the dots I recognized, but never could connect! This was fantastic. I love the whole theory, and you gave the references to show the connections. Great job!
theres a quest in classic TBC at the end of the smv line called "Teron Gorefiend, I am..." and he briefly mentions the altar of shadows being his prison and talks about the dark entities at bay and wanting to be the next death incarnate.
Another explanation to why the old god isnt at full power, could be because it is a legion conquered world, and through lore, the legion focusses on defeating forces of void and light by destroying all worlds. Perhaps the legion managed to banish the old god, somehow, and the corrupted arrakoa tried to summon it back in?
That was a retcon. When this Old God was added thr Legion had no opposition to thr Old Gods, and seemed neutral to thr Void, which was unconnected to the Old Gods.(the first Voidwalkers we see in WC3 are *summoned* by Legion Eredar, and plenty of Legion allied cults had voidwalkers.)
@@DIEGhostfishthat cant be retcon. The Burning Legion was literally created by Sargeras to destroy all life in the cosmos because he bumped into void corrupted planet and thought the only way to destroy the void was to destroy all life.
Yesss you made a video on this!! I have been thinking about a similar theory since the Warlords of Draenor days when I found an archaeology item (called "Outcast Dreamcatcher") which has this description: "Outcast Arakkoa have repurposed the dreamcatcher not to ward off the Curse of Sethe, but to capture and harvest tiny amounts of essences from their lost gods. Rumors persist of an ever-growing mass of swirling energy buried deep beneath Skettis, whispering promises of power to any who will listen... " If anywhere on Draenor were to display signs of corruptive influence it would definitely be Arak. It's also very interesting with what @FishManson said about scrapped old god content in WoD! My personal theory is that this Old God is very weak from the beginning having landed on a planet with no world-soul and it probably hasn't had much to do with whatever power it has anyway, mortal civilizations on Draenor were mostly small, scattered, and struggling with survival until very very recently with the only exceptions being the arakkoa and their one-time ogre students so I don't imagine this entity had much to work with. No active titan influence, mortals without many resources to manipulate, and no world-soul to feed on and grow from...it does kind of make sense that it could make its first real power play when Outland became a cosmological warzone with corruption everywhere and souls dying en masse that it could feed on. Also interesting that the arakkoa were the only ones to pick up on it and eventually serve it because they were the earliest and strongest magic-users..!
I always had a headcanon that an old god crashed into Draenor's seas but it got like destroyed by sporemound infused sea creatures or other savage sea life, but still some lingering part of it remained
I like that idea!! With the Primals/Breakers being the dominant forces on ancient Draenor it may have been hard for an Old God to build up its forces and like you said it could have been totally destroyed!
this is a wonderful mind tug. i've done that quest, but never put the pieces together like that. nor did it dawn on me about the last boss of Alcatraz being so out of place. gg dude.
it dawned on me that the Arcatraz boss was out of place from the beginning, but i always resented it as lazy programming, instead of trying to understand why it might actually be there. def never considered that Ravagers were insectasoid i think at the time, all we had to go on for oozes being connected to Old Gods was the ooze boss in AQ40
Fairly compelling evidence man. Good work on your research! Must be an extremely weak for an Old God as the creature is smaller, using ghosts to command, lost their original commander, and the world is torn asunder and corrupted with fel magic which seems to be a direct counter to the methods of how Old Gods gain power. That and the fact we never see a direct conflict with Legion and Old Gods so your in depth theory is a fun lore idea in a universe we think we know so well. Looking forward to more of your work, been a fan since you swam laps around the coasts of Azeroth.
@@DIEGhostfish Remember, I said we've never seen a conflict between the two. As far as I know it could be like all the other Old Gods, they'll fight each other for all the power regardless if they have the same goal as the Azeroth ones didn't work together to defeat the Titans.
First of all - thank you for this video! I adore the crap of the classic WoW storytelling and you do not disappoint with recaping one of many interesting stories of BC. Second - there is perhaps a bit more to Harbinger Skyriss than meets the eye. His warden Mellichar refers to him as "The great one" when he releases him, implying that he's under some sort of influence of the void already and perhaps that same influence among the Sunreaver forces may not only spread along the part of the Illidan Forces, but also trying to get to the Azeroth as well. This could be seen in all other sections of the Tempest Keep - Mechanar had Sepethrea, a nethermancer that was studying the energies of the void (side note, a High Nethermancer is present among Illidari council in Black Temple), Botanica had the arcane ancient Warp Splinter, which was in the permanent state of confusion (possibly under the influence of the mind control.) and The Eye, where two very interesting bosses may be encountered: Void Reaver and Astromancer Solarian. The former was originally a Burning Legion construction, which has been infused with the void energy, while the other has been researching the energies of the void and even becoming a void creature in the process (another side note, the process very similar to what Nexus King Salhadaar attempted to do, who was the leader of the Etherium, an organization that had an affiliation with the Sunreavers and even aided Kael'thas later in the Magisters' Terrace). The Eye is also where the M'uru was captured and later transfered to Azeroth, where he was drained of his powers, killed and later transformed into the Void God, who unfortunately says nothing interesting during the combat. Could it be that Harbringer Skyriss was plotting his own scheme right under the Legion's plans to invade Azeroth? And by extention gain a larger influance on Draenor through Sunreavers? This of course is just a speculation and perhaps I am reading into it too much, but considering how much schemes and machinations the Old Gods and their servants are responsible for this speculation just might hold some water after all.
You have supremely the most interesting videos mate. Most of the rest are just regurgitating old lore we all already know but you always have a fresh idea. You're brillant. Hope your life goes well.
4:20 I mean he technically is giant squid, because his tentacles were able to reach Vordrassil’s roots and created the emerald nightmare. But maybe it was retconed, idk even know what is and is not canon. :D
Good point good point, there are definitely physical appendages and tendrils at some parts (Vordrassil or the Saronite Mine in Icecrown!)... perhaps I could have phrased that better. With a mass of corruption that large I guess I meant it's better to think of it as a network or hivemind rather than just a "big" organism. :)
Love your videos, everything about them; delivery, lore, cinematics, and knowledge you pass on to us. Thank you for all that you do for all of us. It is never unnoticed or unappreciated. May the Force be with you, sir.
This is a great video! I always wondered about this while questing in Outland. Your theory sounds solid, so many similarities between Old God 'symptoms' on Azeroth. Thank you!
Man, this brought back a lot of memories. Remember in the early TBC presentation material, when some of the earliest concept art we had was of the Rock Flayers? It seemed like they were playing them up a lot, as if they were going to be a big part of the overall storyline of the expansion, lol. Expansions are always weird in hindsight, and speaking of that - TBC has a lot of "dead end" lore I think, ideas or plotlines that were largely abandoned or even retconned later. Lorewise, honestly, it's a pretty big mess.
It's interesting seeing how the black blood of Draenor was around since TBC and now in TWW we know how important it is. They've definitely had this whole Old God story outlined from years ago.
Rockflayers can also be found in deepholm. Seeing as how deepholm was created AFTER the imprisonment of the old gods, its safe to say that rockflayers are not void minions
It’s not only C’thun that has bugs. All the undead insectoids in Nothrend (like Anub’arak) were once servants of Yogg. The Mantids of Pandaria were servants of Y’Shaarj. There are theories about N’zoth’s insectoid race being the Makrura. It really speaks in favor of your theory and I love it !
Thank you for that detail!! I like your idea about the Makrura... when you think about how the Naga basically became pawns of N'Zoth, it also reminds me of those Naga Warlords and how they basically became "crab-ified" and have shells and chitin grafted to their bodies... maybe another clue that this is N'Zoth's version of "insectifying" his servants! :D
@@Jediwarlock The qiraji, nerubians, and mantid are all offshoots of the ancient aqir servants of the Azerothian Old Gods at the height of their powers. Perhaps Old Gods on other worlds create similar beings.
Hi Jedi! Cool ideas! I definitely like the idea that many planets are under siege from the void lords. Old gods are sent into the universe to feed on world souls like parasites, and while most planets don't have them, the old gods are still happy to raise armies of void and place another brick in the wall no matter where they go. The reason Azeroth has so many old gods is because the first one to land there (maybe N'Zoth?) managed to signal for reinforcements when it sensed the presence of the world soul.
Thanks for the additions! I like that argument... even though Draenor doesn't have a World Soul (as far as we know) it could still be turned into a void bastion. :)
Great video. I love WoW lore and when I came across this in BC I was shocked. Also, if you dive in one of the pools of water in the saronite quarry in Icecrown you'll find some strange old god like thing poking out of the bottom.
@@Jediwarlock yeah it's strange because it doesn't have the same color scheme as Yog. So what is it? A different type of faceless one or another old god?
Would've been cool if this story in outland, was mentioned in Dreanor when we travelled back in time. Sadly would've been most likely a Alliance only encounter, but even so, would've been fun to see it mentioned in Shadowmoon Valley
If I recall, The Void Lords or those above Old Gods threw the Old Gods through space and Twisting Nether and landed indiscriminately to corrupt and take over. Draenor did not have a "world soul" like Argus or Azeroth so things didn't get too involved until blood sacrifices, mutations and demonic activity picked up speed. My side theory with the Arrakoa (Draenor / Outlands) is that Light and Shadow influence is notable. Elementals are semi balanced and can be amicable and aren't overly rampant.
The Void Lords didn't know which worlds had a Titan inside them, so they just threw the Old Gods randomly. Many of them would crash into planets that didn't hold a world-soul
I really like the idea ! Nice work! If a Void Expansion it’s on the way - I hope that we go back to Outland . Update for the Zones .. Update for Silvermoon and Exodar! There is so much potential. We left so many Characters and places there . The Black Temple, Alerian Stronghold , Shatrath , Tempest Keep… the Broken in Zangarmarsch . I don’t want new expansion again with 5 new zones and new isle on Azeroth. Update the old zones and move the story there !
Updated Outland would be so cool!! They could definitely also add some small islands in the Nether based on what we know from WoD... Ashran, Goria, and the ruins of Spires of Arak and Frostfire Ridge if they're still around!
I haven’t finished the video fully but I believe the reason he hasn’t influenced Outland much is 2 reasons. The void randomly shots old gods at planets in the hope it has a Titan soul to corrupt, which Outland does not have a soul. So it’s prime objective is already a no-go, so now only thing left is to spread is the voids belief system, so now he’s just doing missionary work. Second in the novel “2 Bright Lights”, it explains how the void can see all possible futures, all possible outcomes. So there’s a good chance the old god knew the world was going to crumble and what local influence he had near him was most likely radiation. Old god radiation and not actually done on purpose.
I love that idea, thank you for pointing out those details! Makes a lot of sense when you think about the arakkoa worshipping a shadowy deity along with numerous other examples of Void influence. :)
so, about yogg not being a giant squid covering all of northrend, blizzard have actually confirmed that old gods are HUGE, and if we were to actually kill them it would most likely kill azeroth with how deep they are, which is one of the reasons yogg said during his death that we sealed our fates(before they retconned him fully dieing)
Great video. Heres some info to support your theory: -in Warcraft chronicle book. it is mentionned that old god traverse the universe to corrupt as many planet as they can. so its possible that they at some point landed on draenor. His weakness is probably due to the fact that he cant corrupt fel energy and this world is just full of it. -in warcraft 3, near the end of the tft undead campain we encounter an old god or what seems to be one in the underground between dragonblight and icecrown. I saw some people in the comment saying the the chronicle part has been "retconned". Idk about that part but i would be very curious to know what was the explanation before chronicle if any1 know
I would guess the old god that’s being summoned in SMV was somewhat new to Draenor before the legion destroyed the planet, and the old God was separated from what we now know as Outland due to being embedded in whatever part of the planet blew up. It would explain the oozes on Netherwind ledge being detached from SMV, the corrupted arrakoa trying to summon the god, the army being spread out and seemingly separate from each other, as well as the harbinger in arcatraz. The harbinger was left in Outland when Draenor was destroyed. There’s other mobs in the arcatraz that share models with the Twins bosses in AQ40. They were likely captured when the harbinger was as well.
Great points!! That would explain how the Old God could be being summoned from somewhere "outside" of Outland... but that somewhere could be another floating chunk of the planet!
I think the breaking of Ountlands might have something to do with its stunted growth as well. It looks like large parts of the planet have been destroyed, and I imagine the life energy of the planet is also spilling out into the nether.
I like the theory for the most part, but i vaguely remember that the flayers used to be the saberon, much like the mushroom pepole of WoD ended up as the sporelings in TBC
I do remember the ravgers and rock flayers when tbc launched but chalked it up to blizz having things like that in vanilla that never panned out just another idea unfortunatley scrapped for one reason or another
It would be cool if the old God was just C'thun being summoned due to Azeroth being linked to Draenor via the dark portal. His body is so vast that it can't be contained to one planet.
Dude also read the description of the Archaeology item: "Outcast Dreamcatcher" it's from Draenor and this with the whole Cho'gall thing during the Imperator fight they probably were planning to go deeper during WoD about it all, I really hope they come back to it at some point. also PS extremely tinfoil hat because why not, but if you watch the Harbringers: Gul'dan video like right the second the elements back off from Gul'dan in like 1-2 frames you can see their colors collectively turn into something that REALLY like WAY TOO MUCH resembles Void/Shadow tendrils XD
seeing that chronicles 2 would have mentioned if there was an old god on draenor but there were plenty of void influences biggest of them sethek and his blood which turned arakoa into corrupted arakoas and them hearing the void whisper from that and ofc later on darkened naaru's. Tempest keep arrived timewise recently on outland and its a dimensional fortress and they were captured before it arrived in outland as nearly immediatly blood elves assaulted it and took over.
Even if there are old gods elsewhere, I don't think any of them would even come close to the power Y'Shaarj had. Aman'thul himself had to rip him out of Azeroth, and the effects that were left on the planet afterwards were extremely severe.
At first I thought this was an extremely elaborate meta channel that tries to explore WoW Classic lore as if anything post WotLK doesn’t exist. But then you ventured to the WoD Dreanor and I remembered that the ‘old gods on Draenor confirmed’ plot point was actually unresolved, and it was just a speculation we had during WoD beta, and I considered this as cannon just cause I never played WoW since. I’ll like and subscribe anyways.
Cool idea, and presented well. As for why this old god seems power starved I have one more idea. I believe a while ago it was stated that Draenor was a planet without a world soul unlike Azeroth which houses a very powerful one. Maybe without a world soul to feed on this old god is struggling to gain power. Then the planet blows up and hinders it even further
I dunno, while I get what you're saying, I think Sabellian's lore contradicts that. He said that in Outland, the Old Gods' corruption couldn't affect him, which allowed him to research a cure. Still, this is an awesome theory. Absolutely subscribed and waiting for more.
I always thought they were summoning cthun into Outland (since same model, and they were summoning him whereas an Outland old god would be already there, and cthun is newly defeated and the only old god in the game up to that point). It would’ve been so cool tho if they did more with this there’s clearly more Easter eggs than I saw at first
Allways wondered why the bird ppl were trying to summon an Old god . I wouldnt mind seeing this loose end tied up in future content , i would like to see an exapc where we help heal Outlands as well as finding a few new zones floating around perhaps the lands of the Ogre empire
I agree! Going back to Outland and seeing the progress of the world (like a Cata revamp) would be super cool! Maybe we could find the ruins of Spires of Arak, Ashran, Goria, and Frostfire Ridge!
The klaxxi are an example of old god forces that continued on after y'shaarj died. IF you have a void elf and you look in the background in the character screen you can see an old god the size of a planet. They are fully capable of spanning all of a continent. Maybe it was in the mine somewhere and was killed when that part of the planet was torn from the rest and they are trying to resummon it
My theory why this "Unnamed Old Gold" Doesnt have the same influcence as Yogg Saron or Chtun is because he is on Outlads a mostly dead Planet. There is not much "Life/Energy/Esscence" left for him to feed of and grow.
Ya know with this old god in outland, it could also be possible that the alternate wod old god could be the reason why alternate dreanor was dying in bfa as its probably at a point now where it can start killing the planet.
@@Jediwarlock hey if you see this I've had a wow question. Why do so many things in wow go through spider-ification? There's spider people in nerubians, maldraxxus, surumar, and maybe more that I forgot. The spiderfication of our enemies must cease Edit: there are spider demons in the legion and even spiders on outlands ???
Hi @@Sauroth, that is a great question! I think it mostly stems from the original aqir (qiraji, silithid etc.) anatomy. The nerubians kept the spidery appearance over thousands of years and it seems they evolved to be even more spiderlike in their architecture and webbing. I'm not sure about Maldraxxus or Suramar, but perhaps for Maldraxxus since it is a reflection of the creatures and cultures that have passed into Death that could explain why they appear similar? If the Old Gods have influenced lots of planets in the galaxy then lots of cultures could have been "spider-ified" from the original "Old God Servant" blueprint and are now mirrored in the afterlife. Just my first theory/thoughts on that but I'm sure there are other options. :)
@@Jediwarlock Thanks for taking the time to read! I find that very interesting as there are even spiders in the legion and on the outlands. Space spiders eh? Gross. But very cool. Thanks for the response! I hope you have a great day!
If the Dread Expanse was still doing youtube, you'd of probably enjoyed his content and perhaps collab'd with him as he's had similar thoughts about alt draenor and the spores.
If there would be a Old God in Outland, we would've seen more evidence of this and its influence. The old god, or rather, lesser god was not summonned FROM Draenor. It does NOT reside in Draenor as its followers were trying to summon it. Its from the Beyond as all the other old gods.
Thanks for the comment! Are you saying that ALL Old Gods are summoned from outside their planets? Because I'm pretty sure the Azeroth ones are actually on/below the planet.
@@Jediwarlock Old gods or void's minions can be summonned, but originally eons ago "Void Lords" sent countless old gods flying through cosmos hoping some of them land on a planet where dormant titan souls are maturing inside to corrupt them. Some of them hit Azeroth and ruled the world for ages until Titans intervened and prisoned all of them underground! :) As far as we know, none of them hit Draenor and/or weren't interested in Draenor/Outland as it didn't have a titan soul inside. Tho it is possible to summon minions of the Void, lesser or greater, but we haven't yet seen a successful summonning of an Old God 👍🏼Our Old Gods are breaking out of these underground prisons. But in short, yeah old gods are all aliens who physically traveled to planets they would inhabit!
@@Jediwarlock i did because you can make them a lock now which is funny in their staring zone.on retail though the quest order is messed up because you get access to quests before you should. i have to try it again on wrath.
Explanation why the Old God of Outland isn't at full power or atleast is having really hard time to manifest unlike its brethren on Azeroth is that something like a "food" source is missing. What i mean by food source is wast amount of Element of Decay. Azeroth depleted its wast quantities of Spirit to quell Elemental Lords but in doing so imo, balance of Spirit and Decay Element got destroyed. The wast amount of Decay left and looking how every OG has great connection to element of Decay(number of their abilities are decay/death magic) no wonder why on Azeroth we have so many Old Gods. But on Draenor it was said that there was great amount of Spirit on planet which in turn gave fuel for Sporemounds to grow. Again it seems that balance was tilted but unlike on Azeroth it was other way around. What if as you say this Old God on Draenor/Outland is much newer addition unlike ones on Azeroth that are ancient when we look at history or timeline. Another explanation for this could be that looking how Draenor, because of Burning Legion,Nerzhul,Gul'Dan and all events that happened in current time is more and more decaying.Levels of Element of Decay could be on the rise and that's why we can see attempt of summoning "new" Old God on Draenor/Outland now or in future expansions as great possibility.
I would not be supprised at slightest if Old God name in life was Botani, as Old Gods stikes me as Elemental Lords of Decay drunk on the Void. Also Death of Y'shaarj and Legend of Elun'Ahir sounds like one and the same story, and look how those void tentacles on planets durring Star Augur fight in Nighthold looks like plant roots.
what if it wasn't the lich king calling arthas to northrend, what if it was yogg'saron using the armor as a proxy. since isn't the lich king's armor made of saronite/yogg saron's blood?
IIRC, the armor and the helm of domination were forged in the nether by the nathrazime using nerzhul's soul. Only icecrown citadel and the armor of his subordinates use saronite. I think there is still a lot of crossover between chaos(demons), undead and the void. Yogg may have had some sway over the Lich King or some long term plan with the dreadlords
my theory is, that because of the fact that Dreanor is just a normal planet and not a juvenile titan, that this perticuluar Old God went into hibernation of some sorts because Old Gods usually leech off a planet's world soul, and feed of its energies, this one was probably starving, and instead of accepting this slow death, hibernated to wait for his chance to emerge
Very good point/theory! I was thinking it could also be possible that the Old God landed here because Draenor had a LOT of Life/Spirit energies which could have made it appear like a Titan planet even though it turned out to be empty. :)
Do you think the fact that there is less land mass that the old god is unable to grow? We know they can get big, look at Ysaarj and how much land mass he took up and look at the tentacles of Yogg and how far they reached. Or N'zoth, he spanned quite a bit of land mass. I think the old god only looks like Cthun is because that was the only model they had atm. What do you think this old gods corruption was? Yogg had the curse of flesh and infested with his blood, Ysaarj played off emotions, N'zoth played with your mind and visions.
Yes! Even before Draenor blew up a lot of it was ocean which could have made corrupting life/land difficult... great question about the corruption! With so many Old Gods out there I am guessing some of them would have overlapping properties... I would give it some similarity to N'Zoth since they were both very secretive and in this case did not give off a lot of outright clues at the surface of the world. With this Old God, perhaps adaptation and evolution could have played a big role? Maybe shaping the land and the creatures to "fit in" on Draenor so the infestation would not appear obvious at first. :)
I think it's 100% an Old God, but it was weakened by the destruction of Draenor, and couldn't grow back once the Outlands became occupied by the Legion until the events of TBC. If you think about it there's a lot of void corruption in WoD, the Pale, the Shadowmoon and Cho'Gall being the major forces along with some "incidents" here and there. It wasn't yet the army of the Qiraji but it was starting to spread its influence throughout old Draenor.
When the orcs attempted to leave draenor about a gajillion portals opened all across the planet which lead to the destruction in the first place. It is very possible that various creatures came through those portals. If that thing really is an old god it probably discovered draenor through those portals and corrupted the arakkoa to summon him there. Similar to sargeras and the highborne elfes. Personally i doubt it since old gods and voidlords have no reason to corrupt a world without soul. Especially one that is already broken
Mabye old gods and the titans are the same thing like how priests can be holy & shadow? Titans just inhabit constructs they made, while old gods just manifest themselves as monstrous creatures.
I think a lot of pre-Cata lore tends to the "it's just a cool idea" side of things, especially since the Old God lore was just riffing on Lovecraft among all the other pop culture references in Classic. Harbinger Skyriss being a callback to an older raid boss isn't unique, either (Murmur in Shadow Labyrinth was a direct callback to Ragnaros, for example). If it's not the A plot (Illidan) or B plot (the Orc, Draenei, Honor Hold, and Blood Elf stuff), I'd take the TBC stuff with a very tiny grain of salt. Remember, there was also a thing similar to C'thun in the Scourge campaign in Warcraft III in the Nerubian area of Northrend. Not saying this isn't cool, because I had similar thoughts when I played through SMV back in 2007, but Metzen's lore was REALLY scatterbrained (remember the massive retcon about the Draenei and Eredar going into TBC?), and if it wasn't *the* main story arcs, I would be wary about how to interpret things. Also remember that they felt the need to introduce major lore characters as raid bosses (hence Illidan going rogue and Kael'thas turning evil) rather than as friendly NPCs like they started doing in Wrath and Cata.
The reason why this wouldn't work, is because it's stated the purpose of an Old God is to corrupt a sleeping titan. There is no titan on Draenor. It's a fun video though!
Thanks! Do Old Gods only embed themselves on planets with a world soul? If so then your idea makes sense :) ...I was thinking the Void wouldn't mind taking over a planet just to gain another base in the galaxy, but your point works too!
the thing is the Void Lords had no idea where planets with world souls were so they kinda just threw them all the universe and hoped one landed on a planet.
Pretty sure that the Qiraj are native to Azeroth and were only corrupted by the old gods Edit: nvm they're related. The Aqir at least came directly from the old gods, some of whom then went on to take over Ahn'Qiraj
Doesn't bother one thing, if creatures like C'Thun are destroyed, others will return like parasites so Cho'gal will be disassembled into Cata. but when the Titan aman'tul destroyed the first Y'shaarji, the Shaa came. but where is his consciousness? what if the other 3 sealed Y'shaarji in the dagger. tthe 5th is probably even to Dreanor we know that Aggramar was there a lot event traveled with portal to azzeroth. Probably thought that the titan Y'shaarji would destroy whom the battle lost and Fohe in the world where a world soul also suspected. Since Drenor doesn't have a World Soul, the journey has drained his power reserves too much in the shadows. What's in it [G'huun] was made from a part of Y'shaarji. which researches the part, like knowing from zandalar. but why didn't Y'shaarji then use G'huun as a vessel? because he was trapped in the dagger The Titan's attempt at containment to create an empty essence Perhaps this void essence was used to create Galakron. when he drank the water contaminated by Yogg-Saron, umwan started to grow into creature of the void(The Old God size) PS I assume that part The Old God of the wow story parsietn are the ones of their size because millennia have lnag at leylinen / titan power utes to wake up. That's why he couldn't keep watch in outland either, the ley lines on Draenor are relatively weak and the world in the Nether was close (before the destruction) and there wasn't any titan soul there.
There is absolutely and old god on draenor, In alternate timeline version, blizzard scrapped Entire zone called Farahlon, so who knows what was supposed to be there, also Thoose arakoa Seem to be worsshipping some shadow Below or something like that, and In our main timeline arakoa are actualy summoning and Old god, and No it is not a Cthuun as Blizzard was most likely lazy and Re-used the same model. Also all thoose Weird Tentacles in Gorgrond, yea Kinda sus. That old god got destroyed most likely when Outland blew up as He was most likely located in Farahlon, which was supposed to be part of WOD expansion. I mean Old gods are not that strong To tank Planet Busting Force so it makes sense it is dead, and Thoose arakoa in Shadowmoon valley are just tryng to bring it back From The Nyalotha/some Void Afterlife where They reside.
The old gods of azeroth had a world soul to feed on. Draenor didn't have something like that, and maybe because of that. The old god never revealed himself.
I think we are sort of both right. The Auchindoun explosion caused the Bone Wastes and damaged Terokkar Forest, and Shadowmoon Valley was where Gul'dan destroyed the orcs' connection to the elements which caused the volcano and demonic energy to flow in. In the lore I don't think it says exactly where Ner'zhul summoned all the portals that ripped Draenor apart so I suppose Shadowmoon is not necessarily the epicenter of the final disaster, but it sure looks like it got hit hard! :)
Like H.P. Lovecraft? Blizzard literally took his stories and just made them more Blizzardesque. George R.R. Martin did the same thing with A Song of Ice and Fire... that's why the Lichking and the Scourge come from the North.... that's where the White Walkers come from. It's an undead scourge controlled by a single Night King (LichKing) that come from beyond the wall... way in the North (Northrend.) Plus actual historical events.
I disagree. Firstly, Sargeras' entire reason for becoming "corrupt" was to wage war on the voidlords and ensure their destruction by any means neccesary; Leaving an old god presence on one of his main planets doesn't seem like an oversight he'd make. The black blood of Draenor I'd compare to the Azerite globules we found during BFA. (Actually, did Draenor even have a world soul?) Idk how the Naaru are involved with the Arcatraz, but I wouldn't put it past Kael'thas to have been able to imprison a Qiraji. I'm not saying impossible, blizzard's done dumber lore things, but idk man. Seems like a stretch.
![The Story of The Old God Y'Shaarj [Lore]](/img/1.gif)
I feel like since outland is slowly falling apart, the old god is missing some kind of sustenance that it needs to grow stronger.
could be feeding on the twisting nether, kinda like how kael'thas began using it in tempest keep
Nice try, Nzoth. Trying to get us to go back there.
I agree! It could have been weakened quite a bit when Draenor blew up! :o
@RichSmithson Old Gods were sent randomly into Great Dark Beyond to hopefully stumble into World Souls.
@@matejkopa97 Exactly, they weren't carefully placed on planets but instead spread around like rice on the field, for all we know Cthun and the other Azeroth old gods could and are hinted to be WEAK in comparison to what an Old God can become
It gets interesting when you know that devs wanted to expand this information in Warlods of Draenor expansion. Unused assets indicates that some of the corrupted Arakoa were worshiping an old god being.
That is interesting! Thanks for commenting about it! :D
That never materialized because the designers realized the arakkoa already had their quite developed pantheon and made a much better story that focused on existing lore. So we got more on Rukhmar, Anzu and Sethe.
There was an insectoid race early in WoD alpha called scorpar, but they were also removed and in the end, the role of Old Gods was taken by the Primals, the hostile plant faction.
Huh. Came here to ask what the supporting evidence would be in WoD Draenor. Too bad it didn't manifest. :(
@@ArakkoaChronicles there is a archeology items that hint that the old god was still there under draenor trying to whisper for followers.
I like to think that in on a really early era on draenor that old god landed on draenor but he was defeated and trapped underground by the elementals.
I always thought that the Outlands Old God was something that was _suppose_ to grow into an equivalent to C'Thun, but when Draenor was ripped apart at the end of the Second War, it too was ripped apart as well, leaving behind a weak and crippled creature instead of an Empire-Spanning God.
I love that idea!! I trust your judgement especially seeing your profile pic ;)
dude, you literally blow me away with the amount of unique ideas you have lol
Agreed
THANK YOU! :D
Yo its you
@@apblolol 🙋♂️🙋♂️
There is a quest in Gorgrond where you have to kill a qiraji referred to as "the thing in the cave".
WOW! I just looked into that... another great clue! :D
Where is this quest/npc?
@@Jediwarlock don't forget the corruption of the Gron and all.
I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I think the biggest reason why it never developed fully might be because there was never a world soul on Draenor. It's like a seed that's dropped in soil that's not quite right for it, so it just becomes a small bush instead of a tree, as it were.
I agree!! Without all that bonus energy it is probably much more difficult for it to grow and spread across a planet. :D
maybe that is how the void find world souls in the first place, maybe they send weeker versions of old gods first, if they find a would soul they end up sending more stronger forms like the named old gods we have on azeroth. like azeroth does have those weeker old gods like Iso'rath in the twilight hinterlands
You connected the dots I recognized, but never could connect! This was fantastic. I love the whole theory, and you gave the references to show the connections. Great job!
Thank you very much! :D
This was honestly a skyscraper jump up from your previous content. Good to see the improvements!
Thank you so much! :D
theres a quest in classic TBC at the end of the smv line called "Teron Gorefiend, I am..." and he briefly mentions the altar of shadows being his prison and talks about the dark entities at bay and wanting to be the next death incarnate.
Very good point! I missed that little detail. :D
Another explanation to why the old god isnt at full power, could be because it is a legion conquered world, and through lore, the legion focusses on defeating forces of void and light by destroying all worlds. Perhaps the legion managed to banish the old god, somehow, and the corrupted arrakoa tried to summon it back in?
That was a retcon. When this Old God was added thr Legion had no opposition to thr Old Gods, and seemed neutral to thr Void, which was unconnected to the Old Gods.(the first Voidwalkers we see in WC3 are *summoned* by Legion Eredar, and plenty of Legion allied cults had voidwalkers.)
@@DIEGhostfishthat cant be retcon. The Burning Legion was literally created by Sargeras to destroy all life in the cosmos because he bumped into void corrupted planet and thought the only way to destroy the void was to destroy all life.
@@Sodys_eyy That was literally not his origin until Chronicle retconned it back in.
New lore: old god was on draenor, but it got retconned, so the devs banished it, but the arakkoa of shadowmoon valley wanted to bring it back.
I like that thought! :)
Yesss you made a video on this!! I have been thinking about a similar theory since the Warlords of Draenor days when I found an archaeology item (called "Outcast Dreamcatcher") which has this description:
"Outcast Arakkoa have repurposed the dreamcatcher not to ward off the Curse of Sethe, but to capture and harvest tiny amounts of essences from their lost gods. Rumors persist of an ever-growing mass of swirling energy buried deep beneath Skettis, whispering promises of power to any who will listen... "
If anywhere on Draenor were to display signs of corruptive influence it would definitely be Arak. It's also very interesting with what @FishManson said about scrapped old god content in WoD! My personal theory is that this Old God is very weak from the beginning having landed on a planet with no world-soul and it probably hasn't had much to do with whatever power it has anyway, mortal civilizations on Draenor were mostly small, scattered, and struggling with survival until very very recently with the only exceptions being the arakkoa and their one-time ogre students so I don't imagine this entity had much to work with. No active titan influence, mortals without many resources to manipulate, and no world-soul to feed on and grow from...it does kind of make sense that it could make its first real power play when Outland became a cosmological warzone with corruption everywhere and souls dying en masse that it could feed on. Also interesting that the arakkoa were the only ones to pick up on it and eventually serve it because they were the earliest and strongest magic-users..!
I like your theory! :D Could definitely explain the arakkoa and also the absence of a bunch of really obvious Old God corruption here...
You would do such a better job than the current writers working on the game
Hahaha, thank you!! Maybe I'll hear from them if they wanna talk Classic+... XD
I mean that's not hard
@@Jediwarlock Ever thought of making a collab with Platinum WoW?
I always had a headcanon that an old god crashed into Draenor's seas but it got like destroyed by sporemound infused sea creatures or other savage sea life, but still some lingering part of it remained
I like that idea!! With the Primals/Breakers being the dominant forces on ancient Draenor it may have been hard for an Old God to build up its forces and like you said it could have been totally destroyed!
@@Jediwarlock there’s also those amorphic creatures at the lost veil anzu in spires of arak which are very similar to merciless ones from azeroth
this is a wonderful mind tug. i've done that quest, but never put the pieces together like that. nor did it dawn on me about the last boss of Alcatraz being so out of place. gg dude.
Thank you! The Arcatraz boss just dawned on me while I was writing the script and I was like :o
it dawned on me that the Arcatraz boss was out of place from the beginning, but i always resented it as lazy programming, instead of trying to understand why it might actually be there.
def never considered that Ravagers were insectasoid
i think at the time, all we had to go on for oozes being connected to Old Gods was the ooze boss in AQ40
Fairly compelling evidence man. Good work on your research! Must be an extremely weak for an Old God as the creature is smaller, using ghosts to command, lost their original commander, and the world is torn asunder and corrupted with fel magic which seems to be a direct counter to the methods of how Old Gods gain power. That and the fact we never see a direct conflict with Legion and Old Gods so your in depth theory is a fun lore idea in a universe we think we know so well. Looking forward to more of your work, been a fan since you swam laps around the coasts of Azeroth.
Fel and Old Gods being enemies/incompatible was *not* a thing when Burning Crusade was written
@@DIEGhostfish Remember, I said we've never seen a conflict between the two. As far as I know it could be like all the other Old Gods, they'll fight each other for all the power regardless if they have the same goal as the Azeroth ones didn't work together to defeat the Titans.
Thank you very much! I like reading your thoughts. :)
First of all - thank you for this video! I adore the crap of the classic WoW storytelling and you do not disappoint with recaping one of many interesting stories of BC. Second - there is perhaps a bit more to Harbinger Skyriss than meets the eye. His warden Mellichar refers to him as "The great one" when he releases him, implying that he's under some sort of influence of the void already and perhaps that same influence among the Sunreaver forces may not only spread along the part of the Illidan Forces, but also trying to get to the Azeroth as well. This could be seen in all other sections of the Tempest Keep - Mechanar had Sepethrea, a nethermancer that was studying the energies of the void (side note, a High Nethermancer is present among Illidari council in Black Temple), Botanica had the arcane ancient Warp Splinter, which was in the permanent state of confusion (possibly under the influence of the mind control.) and The Eye, where two very interesting bosses may be encountered: Void Reaver and Astromancer Solarian. The former was originally a Burning Legion construction, which has been infused with the void energy, while the other has been researching the energies of the void and even becoming a void creature in the process (another side note, the process very similar to what Nexus King Salhadaar attempted to do, who was the leader of the Etherium, an organization that had an affiliation with the Sunreavers and even aided Kael'thas later in the Magisters' Terrace). The Eye is also where the M'uru was captured and later transfered to Azeroth, where he was drained of his powers, killed and later transformed into the Void God, who unfortunately says nothing interesting during the combat. Could it be that Harbringer Skyriss was plotting his own scheme right under the Legion's plans to invade Azeroth? And by extention gain a larger influance on Draenor through Sunreavers?
This of course is just a speculation and perhaps I am reading into it too much, but considering how much schemes and machinations the Old Gods and their servants are responsible for this speculation just might hold some water after all.
WOW! I love that theory!! Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment! :)
Thank you for your content! Glad that people are digging into my favorite period of WoW history @@Jediwarlock
Been watching your videos while leveling my druid and they have been a great addition. Very well made :D
Thanks so much! :)
You have supremely the most interesting videos mate. Most of the rest are just regurgitating old lore we all already know but you always have a fresh idea. You're brillant. Hope your life goes well.
Thank you so much! That means a lot. :)
4:20 I mean he technically is giant squid, because his tentacles were able to reach Vordrassil’s roots and created the emerald nightmare. But maybe it was retconed, idk even know what is and is not canon. :D
Good point good point, there are definitely physical appendages and tendrils at some parts (Vordrassil or the Saronite Mine in Icecrown!)... perhaps I could have phrased that better. With a mass of corruption that large I guess I meant it's better to think of it as a network or hivemind rather than just a "big" organism. :)
@@Jediwarlock no problem, I just did not know if it is still canon :D
Love your videos, everything about them; delivery, lore, cinematics, and knowledge you pass on to us. Thank you for all that you do for all of us. It is never unnoticed or unappreciated. May the Force be with you, sir.
Thank you so much!! :)
This is a great video! I always wondered about this while questing in Outland. Your theory sounds solid, so many similarities between Old God 'symptoms' on Azeroth. Thank you!
Thank you so much! Thanks for watching. :)
Man, this brought back a lot of memories. Remember in the early TBC presentation material, when some of the earliest concept art we had was of the Rock Flayers? It seemed like they were playing them up a lot, as if they were going to be a big part of the overall storyline of the expansion, lol. Expansions are always weird in hindsight, and speaking of that - TBC has a lot of "dead end" lore I think, ideas or plotlines that were largely abandoned or even retconned later. Lorewise, honestly, it's a pretty big mess.
Agreed! Lots of ideas and not enough time for them all to get fleshed out. ;)
Bro, been playing since feb 2007 and never put that together. Great job with this video! Liked and subscribed!
Thank you so much! :D
It's interesting seeing how the black blood of Draenor was around since TBC and now in TWW we know how important it is. They've definitely had this whole Old God story outlined from years ago.
Yeah! Or at least the beginnings of it. :D
OwO hewwo,,, NEW VID DROPPED. so im like a loremaster... but yet i had no idea about this one-- well done :0
Thank you! Glad I could help you find something new ;)
Great video! I'm all about those theories and findings 😁👍🏻
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
Rockflayers can also be found in deepholm. Seeing as how deepholm was created AFTER the imprisonment of the old gods, its safe to say that rockflayers are not void minions
My question is how did a Draenor-native species make its way to deepholm, an elemental plane of azeroth??
That's a good point! I hadn't considered that :)
@@Kapootz12 they got lost
It’s not only C’thun that has bugs. All the undead insectoids in Nothrend (like Anub’arak) were once servants of Yogg. The Mantids of Pandaria were servants of Y’Shaarj. There are theories about N’zoth’s insectoid race being the Makrura. It really speaks in favor of your theory and I love it !
Thank you for that detail!! I like your idea about the Makrura... when you think about how the Naga basically became pawns of N'Zoth, it also reminds me of those Naga Warlords and how they basically became "crab-ified" and have shells and chitin grafted to their bodies... maybe another clue that this is N'Zoth's version of "insectifying" his servants! :D
@@Jediwarlock the best term is Arthropodes, which includes insects and more !
@@Jediwarlock The qiraji, nerubians, and mantid are all offshoots of the ancient aqir servants of the Azerothian Old Gods at the height of their powers. Perhaps Old Gods on other worlds create similar beings.
Hi Jedi! Cool ideas!
I definitely like the idea that many planets are under siege from the void lords. Old gods are sent into the universe to feed on world souls like parasites, and while most planets don't have them, the old gods are still happy to raise armies of void and place another brick in the wall no matter where they go. The reason Azeroth has so many old gods is because the first one to land there (maybe N'Zoth?) managed to signal for reinforcements when it sensed the presence of the world soul.
Thanks for the additions! I like that argument... even though Draenor doesn't have a World Soul (as far as we know) it could still be turned into a void bastion. :)
Great video. I love WoW lore and when I came across this in BC I was shocked. Also, if you dive in one of the pools of water in the saronite quarry in Icecrown you'll find some strange old god like thing poking out of the bottom.
Yes, the Weeping Quarry I believe! Another great little Old God hint ;)
@@Jediwarlock yeah it's strange because it doesn't have the same color scheme as Yog. So what is it? A different type of faceless one or another old god?
Would've been cool if this story in outland, was mentioned in Dreanor when we travelled back in time.
Sadly would've been most likely a Alliance only encounter, but even so, would've been fun to see it mentioned in Shadowmoon Valley
Yeah! I agree. :)
If I recall, The Void Lords or those above Old Gods threw the Old Gods through space and Twisting Nether and landed indiscriminately to corrupt and take over.
Draenor did not have a "world soul" like Argus or Azeroth so things didn't get too involved until blood sacrifices, mutations and demonic activity picked up speed.
My side theory with the Arrakoa (Draenor / Outlands) is that Light and Shadow influence is notable. Elementals are semi balanced and can be amicable and aren't overly rampant.
The Void Lords didn't know which worlds had a Titan inside them, so they just threw the Old Gods randomly. Many of them would crash into planets that didn't hold a world-soul
I like your thoughts! :) Thanks for the comment.
I really like the idea ! Nice work!
If a Void Expansion it’s on the way - I hope that we go back to Outland . Update for the Zones .. Update for Silvermoon and Exodar!
There is so much potential. We left so many Characters and places there . The Black Temple, Alerian Stronghold , Shatrath , Tempest Keep… the Broken in Zangarmarsch .
I don’t want new expansion again with 5 new zones and new isle on Azeroth. Update the old zones and move the story there !
Updated Outland would be so cool!! They could definitely also add some small islands in the Nether based on what we know from WoD... Ashran, Goria, and the ruins of Spires of Arak and Frostfire Ridge if they're still around!
I haven’t finished the video fully but I believe the reason he hasn’t influenced Outland much is 2 reasons. The void randomly shots old gods at planets in the hope it has a Titan soul to corrupt, which Outland does not have a soul. So it’s prime objective is already a no-go, so now only thing left is to spread is the voids belief system, so now he’s just doing missionary work. Second in the novel “2 Bright Lights”, it explains how the void can see all possible futures, all possible outcomes. So there’s a good chance the old god knew the world was going to crumble and what local influence he had near him was most likely radiation. Old god radiation and not actually done on purpose.
I love that idea, thank you for pointing out those details! Makes a lot of sense when you think about the arakkoa worshipping a shadowy deity along with numerous other examples of Void influence. :)
so, about yogg not being a giant squid covering all of northrend, blizzard have actually confirmed that old gods are HUGE, and if we were to actually kill them it would most likely kill azeroth with how deep they are, which is one of the reasons yogg said during his death that we sealed our fates(before they retconned him fully dieing)
That is a good point! I think I downplayed that a bit with my understanding at the time, but their influence is indeed very large. :)
Great video. Heres some info to support your theory:
-in Warcraft chronicle book. it is mentionned that old god traverse the universe to corrupt as many planet as they can. so its possible that they at some point landed on draenor. His weakness is probably due to the fact that he cant corrupt fel energy and this world is just full of it.
-in warcraft 3, near the end of the tft undead campain we encounter an old god or what seems to be one in the underground between dragonblight and icecrown.
I saw some people in the comment saying the the chronicle part has been "retconned". Idk about that part but i would be very curious to know what was the explanation before chronicle if any1 know
Thank you for those thoughts! Very interesting :D
I would guess the old god that’s being summoned in SMV was somewhat new to Draenor before the legion destroyed the planet, and the old God was separated from what we now know as Outland due to being embedded in whatever part of the planet blew up. It would explain the oozes on Netherwind ledge being detached from SMV, the corrupted arrakoa trying to summon the god, the army being spread out and seemingly separate from each other, as well as the harbinger in arcatraz. The harbinger was left in Outland when Draenor was destroyed. There’s other mobs in the arcatraz that share models with the Twins bosses in AQ40. They were likely captured when the harbinger was as well.
Great points!! That would explain how the Old God could be being summoned from somewhere "outside" of Outland... but that somewhere could be another floating chunk of the planet!
I think the breaking of Ountlands might have something to do with its stunted growth as well. It looks like large parts of the planet have been destroyed, and I imagine the life energy of the planet is also spilling out into the nether.
I agree! Without a lot of land mass and/or energy to work with, the Old God would have a much harder time accumulating power. :)
I found this fascinating. Love those topics.
Glad to hear it! Thank you! :)
I like the theory for the most part, but i vaguely remember that the flayers used to be the saberon, much like the mushroom pepole of WoD ended up as the sporelings in TBC
Ah I see, I did not know about the pre-history of the flayers. :)
I do remember the ravgers and rock flayers when tbc launched but chalked it up to blizz having things like that in vanilla that never panned out just another idea unfortunatley scrapped for one reason or another
They're a pretty distinct enemy! Almost reminds me of something that you could find in Silithus :)
Really good writing in this one.
I remember most of these clues, but I just figured they were lazily reusing assets.
Thank you! Yes, originally I thought the model was just a lazy example of repurposing, but then... all the other evidence! :D
There are SO MANY disconnected tangents and dropped storylines in the game, we really need more videos like this.
Yeah! I plan on making many more! :)
It would be cool if the old God was just C'thun being summoned due to Azeroth being linked to Draenor via the dark portal. His body is so vast that it can't be contained to one planet.
That's a cool idea! :D
Dude also read the description of the Archaeology item: "Outcast Dreamcatcher" it's from Draenor and this with the whole Cho'gall thing during the Imperator fight they probably were planning to go deeper during WoD about it all, I really hope they come back to it at some point.
also PS extremely tinfoil hat because why not, but if you watch the Harbringers: Gul'dan video like right the second the elements back off from Gul'dan in like 1-2 frames you can see their colors collectively turn into something that REALLY like WAY TOO MUCH resembles Void/Shadow tendrils XD
Great details! :D I definitely think they were laying the groundwork for it ;)
seeing that chronicles 2 would have mentioned if there was an old god on draenor but there were plenty of void influences biggest of them sethek and his blood which turned arakoa into corrupted arakoas and them hearing the void whisper from that and ofc later on darkened naaru's. Tempest keep arrived timewise recently on outland and its a dimensional fortress and they were captured before it arrived in outland as nearly immediatly blood elves assaulted it and took over.
Good details! Thanks for mentioning :)
Even if there are old gods elsewhere, I don't think any of them would even come close to the power Y'Shaarj had. Aman'thul himself had to rip him out of Azeroth, and the effects that were left on the planet afterwards were extremely severe.
True!
At first I thought this was an extremely elaborate meta channel that tries to explore WoW Classic lore as if anything post WotLK doesn’t exist.
But then you ventured to the WoD Dreanor and I remembered that the ‘old gods on Draenor confirmed’ plot point was actually unresolved, and it was just a speculation we had during WoD beta, and I considered this as cannon just cause I never played WoW since.
I’ll like and subscribe anyways.
Thanks for the sub! I usually try to stay within the Classic-Wrath era, but sometimes looking into the future can be useful. :)
Cool idea, and presented well. As for why this old god seems power starved I have one more idea. I believe a while ago it was stated that Draenor was a planet without a world soul unlike Azeroth which houses a very powerful one. Maybe without a world soul to feed on this old god is struggling to gain power. Then the planet blows up and hinders it even further
Very good point! I think both of those factors definitely contributed to the lack of power of this Old God. :)
I dunno, while I get what you're saying, I think Sabellian's lore contradicts that. He said that in Outland, the Old Gods' corruption couldn't affect him, which allowed him to research a cure. Still, this is an awesome theory. Absolutely subscribed and waiting for more.
Great point! Thank you for the thoughtful comment. :)
Another great video!
Thanks! :D
It is said that the aarakoa god Anzu have communicated with "gods of the abyss" likely being void entities or old gods
I definitely agree! Even Terokk in Skettis seems to come from a void dimension/abyss when you summon him. ;)
I always thought they were summoning cthun into Outland (since same model, and they were summoning him whereas an Outland old god would be already there, and cthun is newly defeated and the only old god in the game up to that point). It would’ve been so cool tho if they did more with this there’s clearly more Easter eggs than I saw at first
That is a cool interpretation if it! A resurrected C'thun in the very next expansion would be a cool epilogue to its story. :)
Allways wondered why the bird ppl were trying to summon an Old god . I wouldnt mind seeing this loose end tied up in future content , i would like to see an exapc where we help heal Outlands as well as finding a few new zones floating around perhaps the lands of the Ogre empire
I agree! Going back to Outland and seeing the progress of the world (like a Cata revamp) would be super cool! Maybe we could find the ruins of Spires of Arak, Ashran, Goria, and Frostfire Ridge!
Never saw this OL quest line, very interesting. Reminds me of one of the raid bosses from NIGHTHOLD in legion
Thanks for the comment! I'll have to check out that raid :D
Really good video. keep it up!
Thanks! :)
The klaxxi are an example of old god forces that continued on after y'shaarj died.
IF you have a void elf and you look in the background in the character screen you can see an old god the size of a planet.
They are fully capable of spanning all of a continent.
Maybe it was in the mine somewhere and was killed when that part of the planet was torn from the rest and they are trying to resummon it
I like your ideas!! Great little details :D
My theory why this "Unnamed Old Gold" Doesnt have the same influcence as Yogg Saron or Chtun is because he is on Outlads a mostly dead Planet. There is not much "Life/Energy/Esscence" left for him to feed of and grow.
Very good point!! I'm also thinking that Draenor doesn't have a full world-soul which would limit the size/power of an Old God here. :)
@@Jediwarlock Especially after the Planent was destroyed by Ner'zhul
Amazing video, thanks!
You are most welcome! :)
@@Jediwarlock I enjoy your content and you're doing a great job 👏
Ya know with this old god in outland, it could also be possible that the alternate wod old god could be the reason why alternate dreanor was dying in bfa as its probably at a point now where it can start killing the planet.
That is a very interesting idea! I like it. :)
Awesome theory and quiet a convincing argument to support it
Thank you very much! :D
Sometimes I think theres no point in investing in wow lore but I really enjoyed your investigation! Maybe theres hope haha
Thank you very much! I think exploring the lore can enrich the game when you find little details that build to something more significant! :D
@@Jediwarlock hey if you see this I've had a wow question. Why do so many things in wow go through spider-ification? There's spider people in nerubians, maldraxxus, surumar, and maybe more that I forgot. The spiderfication of our enemies must cease
Edit: there are spider demons in the legion and even spiders on outlands ???
Hi @@Sauroth, that is a great question! I think it mostly stems from the original aqir (qiraji, silithid etc.) anatomy. The nerubians kept the spidery appearance over thousands of years and it seems they evolved to be even more spiderlike in their architecture and webbing. I'm not sure about Maldraxxus or Suramar, but perhaps for Maldraxxus since it is a reflection of the creatures and cultures that have passed into Death that could explain why they appear similar? If the Old Gods have influenced lots of planets in the galaxy then lots of cultures could have been "spider-ified" from the original "Old God Servant" blueprint and are now mirrored in the afterlife. Just my first theory/thoughts on that but I'm sure there are other options. :)
@@Jediwarlock Thanks for taking the time to read! I find that very interesting as there are even spiders in the legion and on the outlands. Space spiders eh? Gross. But very cool. Thanks for the response! I hope you have a great day!
super cool never new about all the other evidence of the old god in outland
Thanks for tuning in! :D
If the Dread Expanse was still doing youtube, you'd of probably enjoyed his content and perhaps collab'd with him as he's had similar thoughts about alt draenor and the spores.
I would have loved to collab with him! I checked out his channel and it seems we could have made something cool together :)
If there would be a Old God in Outland, we would've seen more evidence of this and its influence. The old god, or rather, lesser god was not summonned FROM Draenor. It does NOT reside in Draenor as its followers were trying to summon it. Its from the Beyond as all the other old gods.
Thanks for the comment! Are you saying that ALL Old Gods are summoned from outside their planets? Because I'm pretty sure the Azeroth ones are actually on/below the planet.
@@Jediwarlock Old gods or void's minions can be summonned, but originally eons ago "Void Lords" sent countless old gods flying through cosmos hoping some of them land on a planet where dormant titan souls are maturing inside to corrupt them. Some of them hit Azeroth and ruled the world for ages until Titans intervened and prisoned all of them underground! :)
As far as we know, none of them hit Draenor and/or weren't interested in Draenor/Outland as it didn't have a titan soul inside. Tho it is possible to summon minions of the Void, lesser or greater, but we haven't yet seen a successful summonning of an Old God 👍🏼Our Old Gods are breaking out of these underground prisons.
But in short, yeah old gods are all aliens who physically traveled to planets they would inhabit!
i just ran the draeni starting zone and i was getting this quest mixed up with stopping the blood elf portal in the pond on bloodmyst
Ooh yeah! I want to roll draenai and try out the starting storyline again. :)
@@Jediwarlock i did because you can make them a lock now which is funny in their staring zone.on retail though the quest order is messed up because you get access to quests before you should. i have to try it again on wrath.
looks to me like outland was a case of the burning legion winning over the void lords
I like that idea! :)
This is so cool!
Thanks! :D
Wow completely forgot about this...kinda makes ya think about how many worlds could've been infested with "old gods"
Very true!
Explanation why the Old God of Outland isn't at full power or atleast is having really hard time to manifest unlike its brethren on Azeroth is that something like a "food" source is missing. What i mean by food source is wast amount of Element of Decay. Azeroth depleted its wast quantities of Spirit to quell Elemental Lords but in doing so imo, balance of Spirit and Decay Element got destroyed. The wast amount of Decay left and looking how every OG has great connection to element of Decay(number of their abilities are decay/death magic) no wonder why on Azeroth we have so many Old Gods. But on Draenor it was said that there was great amount of Spirit on planet which in turn gave fuel for Sporemounds to grow. Again it seems that balance was tilted but unlike on Azeroth it was other way around.
What if as you say this Old God on Draenor/Outland is much newer addition unlike ones on Azeroth that are ancient when we look at history or timeline. Another explanation for this could be that looking how Draenor, because of Burning Legion,Nerzhul,Gul'Dan and all events that happened in current time is more and more decaying.Levels of Element of Decay could be on the rise and that's why we can see attempt of summoning "new" Old God on Draenor/Outland now or in future expansions as great possibility.
I love the thoughts!! Thank you. :)
Bro the original ravagers on draenor seen in WoD prove the connection even further lol
Ooh, good to know! :D
the rock flayers oddly look like the cat people from Tanan Jungle.
Just looked that up... very true! I wonder if they had been modified into the rock flayers after Draenor's destruction. :)
The name of the creature in the game files is even called 'Summoned Old God'
Yeah! :o
I would not be supprised at slightest if Old God name in life was Botani, as Old Gods stikes me as Elemental Lords of Decay drunk on the Void. Also Death of Y'shaarj and Legend of Elun'Ahir sounds like one and the same story, and look how those void tentacles on planets durring Star Augur fight in Nighthold looks like plant roots.
Woah! Interesting thoughts! :D
I miss the MMO and RPG elements in my out mmorpg : ^)
True :')
what if it wasn't the lich king calling arthas to northrend, what if it was yogg'saron using the armor as a proxy. since isn't the lich king's armor made of saronite/yogg saron's blood?
Definitely could be the case. The war of Northrend was chaotic and costly, two things that the Old Gods Love.
IIRC, the armor and the helm of domination were forged in the nether by the nathrazime using nerzhul's soul.
Only icecrown citadel and the armor of his subordinates use saronite.
I think there is still a lot of crossover between chaos(demons), undead and the void. Yogg may have had some sway over the Lich King or some long term plan with the dreadlords
Very good thoughts! Thank you for pointing that out. :)
Very smart theories. Very interesting
Thank you! I hope you enjoy my upcoming theory/deep dive ;)
my theory is, that because of the fact that Dreanor is just a normal planet and not a juvenile titan, that this perticuluar Old God went into hibernation of some sorts
because Old Gods usually leech off a planet's world soul, and feed of its energies, this one was probably starving, and instead of accepting this slow death, hibernated to wait for his chance to emerge
Very good point/theory! I was thinking it could also be possible that the Old God landed here because Draenor had a LOT of Life/Spirit energies which could have made it appear like a Titan planet even though it turned out to be empty. :)
youre like the only decent WoW youtuber out here right now lol
Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying my content. :)
Do you think the fact that there is less land mass that the old god is unable to grow? We know they can get big, look at Ysaarj and how much land mass he took up and look at the tentacles of Yogg and how far they reached. Or N'zoth, he spanned quite a bit of land mass. I think the old god only looks like Cthun is because that was the only model they had atm. What do you think this old gods corruption was? Yogg had the curse of flesh and infested with his blood, Ysaarj played off emotions, N'zoth played with your mind and visions.
Yes! Even before Draenor blew up a lot of it was ocean which could have made corrupting life/land difficult... great question about the corruption! With so many Old Gods out there I am guessing some of them would have overlapping properties... I would give it some similarity to N'Zoth since they were both very secretive and in this case did not give off a lot of outright clues at the surface of the world. With this Old God, perhaps adaptation and evolution could have played a big role? Maybe shaping the land and the creatures to "fit in" on Draenor so the infestation would not appear obvious at first. :)
This is too weird. I did this quest last night. then this video ends up in my recommended. I hear the whispers.
The Void calls! :o
I think it's 100% an Old God, but it was weakened by the destruction of Draenor, and couldn't grow back once the Outlands became occupied by the Legion until the events of TBC.
If you think about it there's a lot of void corruption in WoD, the Pale, the Shadowmoon and Cho'Gall being the major forces along with some "incidents" here and there. It wasn't yet the army of the Qiraji but it was starting to spread its influence throughout old Draenor.
Agreed! Great thoughts :) I like how WoD made sure to explicitly give us some hints that there was indeed Old God corruption here the whole time!
Lore says Yogg is indeed HUGE - almost as big as Northrend.
Good point! I think I needed to re-evaluate how I explained it in my vid. :)
When the orcs attempted to leave draenor about a gajillion portals opened all across the planet which lead to the destruction in the first place. It is very possible that various creatures came through those portals. If that thing really is an old god it probably discovered draenor through those portals and corrupted the arakkoa to summon him there. Similar to sargeras and the highborne elfes. Personally i doubt it since old gods and voidlords have no reason to corrupt a world without soul. Especially one that is already broken
That's a really good idea! :)
Mabye old gods and the titans are the same thing like how priests can be holy & shadow?
Titans just inhabit constructs they made, while old gods just manifest themselves as monstrous creatures.
Interesting point! :D
I think a lot of pre-Cata lore tends to the "it's just a cool idea" side of things, especially since the Old God lore was just riffing on Lovecraft among all the other pop culture references in Classic. Harbinger Skyriss being a callback to an older raid boss isn't unique, either (Murmur in Shadow Labyrinth was a direct callback to Ragnaros, for example). If it's not the A plot (Illidan) or B plot (the Orc, Draenei, Honor Hold, and Blood Elf stuff), I'd take the TBC stuff with a very tiny grain of salt. Remember, there was also a thing similar to C'thun in the Scourge campaign in Warcraft III in the Nerubian area of Northrend.
Not saying this isn't cool, because I had similar thoughts when I played through SMV back in 2007, but Metzen's lore was REALLY scatterbrained (remember the massive retcon about the Draenei and Eredar going into TBC?), and if it wasn't *the* main story arcs, I would be wary about how to interpret things. Also remember that they felt the need to introduce major lore characters as raid bosses (hence Illidan going rogue and Kael'thas turning evil) rather than as friendly NPCs like they started doing in Wrath and Cata.
You make a good point! I forgot about the Old God presence in WC3 Azjol'Nerub :)
It's probably a forgotten or disregarded plot. There's no doubt in my mind that's an old god.
Definitely a possibility! :)
The reason why this wouldn't work, is because it's stated the purpose of an Old God is to corrupt a sleeping titan. There is no titan on Draenor. It's a fun video though!
Thanks! Do Old Gods only embed themselves on planets with a world soul? If so then your idea makes sense :) ...I was thinking the Void wouldn't mind taking over a planet just to gain another base in the galaxy, but your point works too!
the thing is the Void Lords had no idea where planets with world souls were so they kinda just threw them all the universe and hoped one landed on a planet.
Super cool, thanks😮moar is welcomed❤
Thank you for watching! More videos on the way. :)
Good video
Thank you! :)
Pretty sure that the Qiraj are native to Azeroth and were only corrupted by the old gods
Edit: nvm they're related. The Aqir at least came directly from the old gods, some of whom then went on to take over Ahn'Qiraj
Maybe the old god was not stoped by us but by breaking outland apart?
Yes! Definitely another factor :D
Doesn't bother one thing, if creatures like C'Thun are destroyed, others will return like parasites so Cho'gal will be disassembled into Cata.
but when the Titan aman'tul destroyed the first Y'shaarji, the Shaa came. but where is his consciousness?
what if the other 3 sealed Y'shaarji in the dagger.
tthe 5th is probably even to Dreanor we know that Aggramar was there a lot event traveled with portal to azzeroth. Probably thought that the titan Y'shaarji would destroy whom the battle lost and Fohe in the world where a world soul also suspected.
Since Drenor doesn't have a World Soul, the journey has drained his power reserves too much in the shadows.
What's in it [G'huun]
was made from a part of Y'shaarji. which researches the part, like knowing from zandalar. but why didn't Y'shaarji then use G'huun as a vessel?
because he was trapped in the dagger
The Titan's attempt at containment to create an empty essence
Perhaps this void essence was used to create Galakron. when he drank the water contaminated by Yogg-Saron, umwan started to grow into creature of the void(The Old God size)
PS I assume that part The Old God of the wow story parsietn are the ones of their size because millennia have lnag at leylinen / titan power utes to wake up.
That's why he couldn't keep watch in outland either, the ley lines on Draenor are relatively weak and the world in the Nether was close (before the destruction) and there wasn't any titan soul there.
Wow! I like that idea a lot! Thank you for that thoughtful comment. :)
There is absolutely and old god on draenor, In alternate timeline version, blizzard scrapped Entire zone called Farahlon, so who knows what was supposed to be there, also Thoose arakoa Seem to be worsshipping some shadow Below or something like that, and In our main timeline arakoa are actualy summoning and Old god, and No it is not a Cthuun as Blizzard was most likely lazy and Re-used the same model. Also all thoose Weird Tentacles in Gorgrond, yea Kinda sus. That old god got destroyed most likely when Outland blew up as He was most likely located in Farahlon, which was supposed to be part of WOD expansion. I mean Old gods are not that strong To tank Planet Busting Force so it makes sense it is dead, and Thoose arakoa in Shadowmoon valley are just tryng to bring it back From The Nyalotha/some Void Afterlife where They reside.
Very good points!!! Thank you for pointing them out. :)
Maybe the old god inside Draenor was kinda new and had low power so when the world exploded he was destroyed.
Yeah! Totally possible :)
The old gods of azeroth had a world soul to feed on. Draenor didn't have something like that, and maybe because of that. The old god never revealed himself.
Great point! I totally agree. :)
Auchindoun was the epicenter of what happened to outlands not Shadowmoon valley...
I think we are sort of both right. The Auchindoun explosion caused the Bone Wastes and damaged Terokkar Forest, and Shadowmoon Valley was where Gul'dan destroyed the orcs' connection to the elements which caused the volcano and demonic energy to flow in. In the lore I don't think it says exactly where Ner'zhul summoned all the portals that ripped Draenor apart so I suppose Shadowmoon is not necessarily the epicenter of the final disaster, but it sure looks like it got hit hard! :)
arent all the old gods are just in azeroth?
To my knowledge, the Void Lords sent Old Gods all across the universe, meaning they landed on all sorts of planets. :)
No, because we know sargeras destroyed a planet because it was already void corrupted. We just know a few old gods so far.
Like H.P. Lovecraft? Blizzard literally took his stories and just made them more Blizzardesque. George R.R. Martin did the same thing with A Song of Ice and Fire... that's why the Lichking and the Scourge come from the North.... that's where the White Walkers come from. It's an undead scourge controlled by a single Night King (LichKing) that come from beyond the wall... way in the North (Northrend.) Plus actual historical events.
Good points!! :)
I disagree.
Firstly, Sargeras' entire reason for becoming "corrupt" was to wage war on the voidlords and ensure their destruction by any means neccesary; Leaving an old god presence on one of his main planets doesn't seem like an oversight he'd make.
The black blood of Draenor I'd compare to the Azerite globules we found during BFA. (Actually, did Draenor even have a world soul?)
Idk how the Naaru are involved with the Arcatraz, but I wouldn't put it past Kael'thas to have been able to imprison a Qiraji.
I'm not saying impossible, blizzard's done dumber lore things, but idk man. Seems like a stretch.
Hey that's alright, I appreciate the input! There are some hints to this in Warlords of Draenor as well but I could be stretching it.