Yeah, Goes to show when you know it only takes 100,000 to force an evolution, but no one else does, you can say it costs as many as you wish and keep the extras.
@@anialator1000000 no one can think of it. Rimuru only has the cheat code Raphael thats why. Its the wikipedia of that World thats why he knows even Guy's Girl form cant cope up with that intelligence. Also has the necessary utility tool which is the ultimate skill Beezlebub.
In case you didnt know Shions evolution was held back by Raphael because after her evolution she was likely to be able to kill rimeru with the evolution of her chef skill
bruh, I thought shion's cooking is delicious tho? after the awakening of rimuru as a true demon lord, her cooking skill was upgraded, althought the visual isn't.🤣
her cooking skill works by giving her actions whatever results she wants, that's why even tho she can't cook shit her food still tastes good because that's what she wants. on the ln she uses this on combat and can literally break any barrier, even rimuru's if she wanted too, that's why she could kill him
Diablo is the strongest, the only reason Zegion could give Diablo trouble is because 1. his race is a direct counter to demons, and 2. Diablo refuses to attack the parts that has Rimuru's cells.
They have done mock battles in Labyrinth but gone to tie. No one won yet between them and Diablo admits that 1 mistake means defeat against Zegion. The only thing that tops Diablo to Zegion is the Existence Power of Diablo is higher than Zegion and also Zegion insectar species is direct counter to Demons. Thats why Diablo is not sure to win against Feldway cause Feldway is a higher being.
Weird Kross, I've already stated the reasons why Zegion could give Diablo a hard fight in my first comment and it's *not* because Zegion is stronger than Diablo, I'm going to repeat them here: 1. Zegion (like you said) is a counter to demons. Also, that is *not* a "stronger than you" card, that's like saying water is deadlier then fire simply because water's a counter to fire, yet if you put your hand in fire you'll suffer injury, do the same with water, it's harmless. 2. Diablo refuses to target the parts of Zegion's body that contains Rimuru's cells, which puts a major handicap on Diablo against Zegion. Not sure why you brought up Feldway because he's irrelevant here. However, what do you mean that he's a "higher being" then Diablo? Higher in power? Sure. Higher plain of existence? No, he's a primordial just like Diablo but for angels, he's not a true dragon, which are the only entities that are on a higher plain of existence to fully evolved primordials.
Wat ur saying is true but then again da insectar lord zelaneous himself hates da primordials cause they have interfered too much in their plan to occupy territories..zegion doesn't stand a chance against da primordials actually..they r known as maintainers of power balance of da worlds for a reason..
Diablo only serious when needed or being commanded by Rimuru. Most of his battles are being held back. So yes Diablo is the strongest, even Rimuru acknowledge that.
I love that panel of Shuna telling Adalmann about Rimuru and after he says "Lord Rimuru, what a divine name he has" Shuna palms her head thinking "great, he's another Diablo". I think Diablo, Adalmann and Zegion(in that order) all worship Rimuru while the rest just respect and really look up to him.
@@MoJiTo-_- because 1. Rimuru doesn't have it anymore, Ciel combined it into Void God Azathoth. 2. She gave Geld a weaker version (gourmet king instead of gluttonous king) and iirc it's a gift and not a skill.
The Religion leader:Diablo Rimurism priest:Adalmann Rimuruism Guard:Zegion The Executionors of Rimuruu: Carrera Ultima Testa Diablo Zegion Kumara Shion The above,say shit to or about rimuru and think that you're dead if rimuru isn't present to stop them. Ranga Benimaru Etc excluded
@@luciferdontreadmydescription nice list. You forgot Raine though. Diablo showed her the glory of Rimuru-sama and she's the newest convert of Rimuruism. She even cheered for Diablo when he sparred with Guy and is the artist drawing portraits of Rimuru (Souei confiscated one from the chief financial officer of Rimuruism, Mjollmire) without his consent. And when she screwed up it was Rimuru she was apologizing to and begging for mercy, not Guy.
No zegion is a demon's natural enemy remember the rule demon beats angels angels beats spirits, spirits beat demon, a worm type beast is a spirit, so just think if diablo as a fire type pokemon and zegion is a water type altough diablo is indeed stronger than zegion if zegion wasnt a worm type monsters altough im not counting borrowed nihility energy because diablo is more skilled at using nihility
I don't know if I remember correctly but matching the ancient race of Zegion and Demons being same power level as Angels or they somewhat fear his race so.... It would be correct to call Zegion strongest
......Diablo is probably stronger than Zegion if we go off what he said in V18. BUT Zegion definitely has better feats and statements. Although I do think Carrera could also be stronger than Diablo
@@communitygamer117 Well she has a higher attack power but I still can't see her beating Diablo especially with his mad experience in fighting as veldora stated he had been in over 1000 battle scenarios
When I hear the 12 patrons of Rimuru... I always imagine that it would be the 12 arch priest of Rimuru... Like they are the 12 head priest that are loyal to their God Rimuru
Consider that like half of the 12 are worship Rimuru like a God... And other half follow him as their supreme leader... That statement "Like they are the 12 head priest that are loyal to their God Rimuru" is not far of from Truth... no matter Rimuru aware or not =w=
Rimuru is a freaking devil to be able to scam Guy Crimson to give him mORe souls than needed to evolve Guy's maids,Rain and Mizari into a demon peer.Well,the guy don't actually intend to do that but Raphael is the one who actually requested it
How is it scamming if your beein paid for evolving others. Wouldn't make sense to just evolve others for free. Try find a jewel crafter hand him the materials and demand non payment since you provide materials
@@rasalghul1904 the fuck are you spouting about? If guy didn't know that it should only approximately 200,000 souls needed to evolve the two primordials, which means it's still a scam. I mean you also have a point dear, but it's just a fucking comparison. Additionally, do you even have a brain? If we compare 100,000 souls into 100,000 dollars it would feel like you were actually being scammed without knowing it. We need to use our common sense logic on these types of negotiations, dear.
TBH Rimuru was'nt suppose to scam guy ... it was Lord Of Wisdom : Raphael who suggested that he should get 500k souls instread of just 200k souls this making the culprit Raphqel or Manas: Ciel
Well, he won't. The reason why he gave each one of them titles is exactly because he didn't want them to be patronized as demon lords by the other races. That doesn't mean that they are not true demon lords, it just means that the populace don't consider them as such. Or rather, they don't know and will probably not want to know. Just imagine a hypothetical country, one that claims that they have a weapon so strong it can blow up the planet in one go. Now imagine another country claiming that they have 12 of those. Even the most pessimistic of doubters would hope that it's not real.
Imagine having a whole empire with demon lords. If Rimuru wanted to, he could rule the world. The once looked down on monster, a slime, becoming a demon lord and then one of the true dragons. An "Ultimate Slime".
Y'know, i love tensura. First it was for me an isekai. An Isekai with typical RPG elements. But it grew and grew to something amazing. Now after having seen you video. I kinda thought that this evolution System reminds me of Digimon, or Pet Raising games. That's what i loved even more. I hope there will be a kind of Action-/RPG /Disgaea / Digimon game of Tensura ~
@@lndrm6186 zegion's like really close, wdym, he's arguably stronger than diablo, if not equal, he has a skill that can alter reality, plus, he's stronger jn melee combat
@@tanakerrr yeah, but zegion's skill is superior out of all those subordinates you are talking about. it's as strong as shion's unique skill (if not stronger)
I read the novel and it's crazy how much development gobta had. He started off as a joke in the series that got his ass beat for fans amusement but my man kept growing and became one of the strongest monsters in the series. Benimaru also becomes a demon lord as well according to the novel.
If Diablo was just interested in getting stronger long before he became Rimuru's subordinate, this discussion about Zegion being stronger than Diablo would've not come to existence
I dont think magic is Zegions strong suit tho, but a demon like Diablos strong suit *is* magic, so if theyre equal in magic I think Zegion would be stronger
Doesn't Shion evolve during battle...she becomes the war spirit Oni, and literally becomes the bane of all spirits. Making her basically the ultimate bodygaurd for Rimuru that to be honest no one except Guy, milim and the true dragons can really go up against with guarantee to win at the final stages of the story?
she didn't evolve during the gifting festival but she did evolve when she fought against the humanoid bug Razul, and yeah I guess I should have mentioned that in my video 😅
@@AnimeRumpai She didnt evolve fighting razul iirc, only obtained another unique skill, the reason she didnt evolve during the ceremony was because there were two evolution options and ciel only figured which one would be best in the middle of her fight with the other worm-type/insectoid under rudra/michael so she evolved into a berserker spirit or something like that
Shion evolved while fighting Minaza into a "Fighting Spirit Oni"(translation could be wrong). this evolution has no ultimate but it has the power to defeat enemies with ultimate skills.
if I'm not mistaken, I think that Gobta didn't awaken because he didn't meet the requirement for awakening. Also you're right, Gobta did get really strong when he combined with Ranga, so technically if he combined with an awakened Ranga, he will be on the level of a true demon lord.
This video is incorrect. It is based on the web novel which is not cannon. None of this has happened in the light novel yet and significant changed will most likely be made since the author considers the web novel a rough draft and the light novel as the proper story.
@@AnimeRumpai I’m pretty sure you’re mean volume 14 but yeah although a lot of people haven’t seen past volume 12 since there are only bot translations
The only reason gobta along with hakurou and souei didn't evolve was because they don't have demon seed which is the requirement to become the demon lord
Thank you for the reminder the light novel exist now excuse me while I go read it while giving your video a like despite not watching it for spoiler reasons
Doesn't Rimuru have a skill that lets him use and maximize the skills of all of his subordinates or named creatures? If that's the case do the ultimate skills count too?
I'm only familar with the Web Novel, in that Geld, and Aldaman turned down their evolution because of feelings of inadeqises and Rimmuru delayed their evolution because he didn't want to force them and he was a little low on souls. Shion also didn't show any immediate sign of evolution though her Yamigari did get a harvest festival evolution. Aldaman and Geld, and Bennimaru evolved after the war with the eastern empire was over in order to be of more use during the Great Tenma war against the angels and Angria Manyu
The reason why Shion didn't evolve in V14 is because Raphael ceased it. She didn't know what to give Shion as an evolution. In V15 whiles fighting Minaza, Ciel allowed her to evolve into a Divine Fighting Oni. Essentially a spiritual being with no direct weakness, an enemy of all spiritual beings.
I thought that was about the unique skill evolution, and the reason she didn't evolve was simply because they didn't know what evolution route/species best suited her
There is actually an explanation about why Shion didn't evolve in the first instance. It's later explained during the battle with Eastern empire, when Shion is fighting one of the guards of the emperor, Ciel (the evolution of Raphael) explains that took a while to discover the most appropriate evolution to Shion, so in the middle of the battle she awakens as a true demon lord and her race changes to a "fighting Oni". Also if you probably noticed all of the 12 patrons have an ultimate skill except for Shion, this is also explained. Ciel explains that she didn't gave Shion an ultimate skill not because she is not capable, but because she is literally the cristalization of power and giving her one would turn her into a person capable of killing even Rimuru, so she decided not to given her anyone
My only question is what event happened in which Rimeru got over a million souls so that he could evolve all these people? I’ve only seen the anime so hearing that Rimeru “forced” the demon lord evolution onto 12 people is crazy.
It was during the attack of the Eastern Kingdom. I don't want to spoil anything, so I won't saz more, but it was one of the best arcs if you ask me. I cannot recommend the LN enough, it is truly amazing!
I kinda feel bad for Benimaru being rushed to marry and have children, but given that the evolution was rushing to him, it makes sense. But I wish he had time to think and date.
She cant grow up becoming a demon lord doesnt age u anymore, look a milim she still body of a child and acts like a child But she prob will get stronger as time passes on because she'll fight more ppl (but idk if the story will even go on further than that)
A kingdom home to monsters, demons, greater demons, demon peer, demon lords, hero, true dragon, God tier creature(Rimuru) on top of that super cheat computer Ciel. This is so fuckin broken kingdom.. legendary cheat kingdom. Not even Guy can go into war with Rimuru.
I love Rimuru!!!! His gift lies in his humanity and sincerity overall. On top of that he is one hell of a leader and a businessman. He does not rule by force unless the situation calls for it or if his hand is pushed to such action such as evil humans attacked his country. Honestly I put him at the same league with Anos demons yes but they love peace while getting to their bad side is never a good idea. However in a fight for me Anos takes it because of a major advantage HUGE MANA POOL, Rimuru has been shown numerous times that despite being the God that he is he runs out of Mana while Anos has no concrete evidence of such event. Sure he died but that is only because he wanted to. He converted his Mana into a Hakkai barrier. In short Anos will only loose if he wants to loose.
@@diablo9044 But got to admit dude head to head this is a hard match up as both are in all sense of the word DEMON KINGS Literally. Conventional stats such as AP resiliency speed etc are irrelevant that is why to me the MANA Pool is crucial and as of now Rimuru having that sleep mode means more than likely in a high level magic battle as Anos is no fodder and even if his mana pool is finite chances are Rimuru will be out of juice first!!!! And nope he cannot eat Anos for one he has that Hakkai Barrier along with a ton of hax equal if not greater in both quantity and quality than Rimuru!!!! Not to mention he has at least 1000 years of experience!!!! As I said he died yes but only because he got bored to the point of even the demon king he seeks peace ha ha.
We are talking about infinity pool you know at the end of web novel Rimuru mana pool is enough to destroy and rebuild ten of thousand of mutiverse in turn anos has to sacrifice his core to split just one world to three parts than talk about this and so Rimuru pool from web novel is not the strongest because the light novel is still ongoing and he is broken so much
@@ravemasterharu anos is op but in the end rimuru literally becomes a fucking omnipotent being like literally he's just that OP also yes infinite mana pool too.
He did get another title from Rimuru, but he didn't meet the requirements to become a True DL, I believe it was because Souei was like the shadow of Benimaru, the one that always stays hidden and things like that, and he was practically considered like a subordinate from Benimaru, so that's why he is not in those 12 patrons.
Shion didn't evolve basically cause she was jealous and worried Rimiry would forget her someday or she would be obsolete. She finally let's that go and evolved in the middle of a fight.
She evolved into a spiritual life form but still didn't get an ultimate skill like everyone else did, ciel is still worried that a rule-altering/law-defying ultimate skill would damage rimuru :(
@@carrotmango3650 you talking with right? Cause her jusdgement chef did evolve in wn to an ultimate skill. Ill grab name of ot tomorrow, gotta find chapter again.
12:00 "But after scamming Guy the demon lord of over HALF A MILLION (500 000) souls he managed to awaken them as true demon lords" Yo man he good merchant (everyone knows that fantasy merchants are VERY DANGEROUS, even more dangerous than some demon lords I would say)
Shion evolved during the battle with Dagruel. And btw, Diablo is the strongest because he's the first one to master the "nihilitic" (not sure about the spelling) energy from rimuru and he was also able to move during "stopped time" abilities.
It depends diablo is stronger, and more skilled at using the nihility energy but if he fought zegion he will probably lose just consider diablo a fire type pokemon and zegion is water type, diablo IS stronger but if he fought zegion he will lose
@@TrapConnoisseur. naa bro diablo 😈 will clap chicks because of experience he literally is as old as the plant because he is one of the primordial. Still I appreciate your reply
@@TrapConnoisseur. if your entering the concept of Pokemon types here ill still tell that Diablo is stronger,lets say that Zegion is Blastoise and Diablo is Charizard,thats how the concept of three way match work,it doesn't literally mean that an angel would always win against a demon but the fact that the angels HAVE the upper hand against demon is the truth So yeah back to Char and Blas,Blas would win,thats one would say if they dont what level Char is,if your putting in the concept of pokemon type here,then I'll pit this in Blastoise = Lvl. 70 Charizard = Lvl. 90
@@TrapConnoisseur. Let me add one more thing, I'm pretty sure you know that Diablo is a Primordial Demon,demons that exist in he beginning of time,along with the Primordial Angels and The Great Spirits,Diablos experience and wisdom in battle will surely make him uo against Zegion,add the fact that when they have a battle,Diablo is not attacking the parts of Zegion that have Rimurus flesh on them,so he's holding back
Let pretend if all the 12 patrons have a practice fight with rimuru, where they all up against rimuru 12vs1. I don’t think Rimuru will obtain the victory, will he? Yet, to be worthy of such powerful patrons require powerful surpass those below him. This is to maintain the superior position if thing leading to a unexpected direction. This inquiry is relate to power, despite loyalty.
Bro, Rimuru in the novels is much stronger, in the end of the Webnovel he became as strong as a God or Veldanava or even stronger, he could even devour a black hole like it’s nothing.
I mean Diablo wasn't lying when he said the mask was connected to rimuru and he would have the power to control time and space and decided to serve him because Later at the end of the series Rimuru lost to yuuki and got banished to the ends of time and space He absorbed large of amounts of nuitililty thus gaining the power to control time and space and he returned and defeated yuuki
thing is, the space time control is actually from a pretty non descript teleport skill he picked up from some empire gall, which it turns out lets you teleport.... ANY where,when. you just need the energy for it.
Didnt lose just got pushed in that realm. Yuuki was using desperate measures at that point. We were hinted a few chapters before that when discussing Chloe (if readers read thoroughly) that Rimiru could and will control space and time
@@tsukinercua And sadly for the Angels, Rimuru is just too powerful to stop. Btw, you already met an angel (fallen), he is that lazy sleepy Demon Lord.
So benimaru's post nut clarity caused him to awaken as a true demon lord? 😂😂. I can't wait to see these episodes animated. It's gonna be hilarious watching benimaru get flustered.
naming hells rimmuru went through Group 1: OG Goblins(Rigurd, Rigurd, Gobta), the direwolf pack Group 2: All the other Goblins who flocked to tempest while away at Dwargon Group 3: The remnants of the Ogre tribe Group 4: The Orcs and Lizardman after the Orc Disaster is defeated Group 5: The Black Numbers demons Rimmuru named others on a case by case basis for example Gozu and Mezu, Zegion and Apito, Diablo, Kumara and her eight tails, Berretta, Wenti, and the 4 Dragon Lords(the dragons used souls instead of rimmurus magicules) and most importantly Ciel.
My opinion on their rankinv of strongest to weakest 1. Diablo no doubt 2. Zegion bruh bodied dino 3. Benimaru op as f but not astrong as other 4. Testaross 5. Carrera 6. Ultima 7. Shion im kinda biased to primordial trio to shion adn they have more potential than her 8. Kumara she has the potential to be in the top 5 atleast but because of the lack of experience she isnt top 5 9. Adalman super strong 10. Ranga he isnt the most op but aslong as he is in rimuri shadow he would keep getting stronger but i barely remeber why 11. Gabiru their strongest air type batler 12. Geld isnt a firghter but the sheild of tempest
So you're saying Gabiru will get yet another makeover, with larger horns and scales turning from blackish-purple to redish-purple, with an "obsidian-like artistic quality"? I am VERY curious to see how that will get adapted, either in the anime or gacha game first...
So basically rimuru just has a monopoly on true demonlords
Well... From what I heard Rimuru became a god Soo...
considering the fact that rimuru is a god um.... I think its practical
@@chaisensei that's WN
@@communitygamer117 bruh its already in ln long time ago
Milim evolved Freya and Karion whereas Guy also evolved Rain and mezari after Rimuru revealed how to evolve them using souls.
"Scammed guy crimson out of half a million souls"
Yeah, Goes to show when you know it only takes 100,000 to force an evolution, but no one else does, you can say it costs as many as you wish and keep the extras.
@@anialator1000000 no one can think of it. Rimuru only has the cheat code Raphael thats why. Its the wikipedia of that World thats why he knows even Guy's Girl form cant cope up with that intelligence. Also has the necessary utility tool which is the ultimate skill Beezlebub.
Raphael Scammed him, not Rimuru. Lol
@@burnmybread4985 Yeah thats right Raphael Did and rimuru was so scared at that time.....
@@weirdkross9632 what chapter in WN where rimuru evolved the 3 of them
In case you didnt know Shions evolution was held back by Raphael because after her evolution she was likely to be able to kill rimeru with the evolution of her chef skill
She still manage to get it anyway lol
@@genrrizeecuvsfatti4747 Well ye but only after he became a being that couldnt be killed by it
So shions skill was that broken 💀
bruh, I thought shion's cooking is delicious tho? after the awakening of rimuru as a true demon lord, her cooking skill was upgraded, althought the visual isn't.🤣
her cooking skill works by giving her actions whatever results she wants, that's why even tho she can't cook shit her food still tastes good because that's what she wants. on the ln she uses this on combat and can literally break any barrier, even rimuru's if she wanted too, that's why she could kill him
Diablo is the strongest, the only reason
Zegion could give Diablo trouble is because 1. his race is a direct counter to demons, and 2. Diablo refuses to attack the parts that has Rimuru's cells.
They have done mock battles in Labyrinth but gone to tie. No one won yet between them and Diablo admits that 1 mistake means defeat against Zegion. The only thing that tops Diablo to Zegion is the Existence Power of Diablo is higher than Zegion and also Zegion insectar species is direct counter to Demons. Thats why Diablo is not sure to win against Feldway cause Feldway is a higher being.
Weird Kross, I've already stated the reasons why Zegion could give Diablo a hard fight in my first comment and it's *not* because Zegion is stronger than Diablo, I'm going to repeat them here: 1. Zegion (like you said) is a counter to demons. Also, that is *not* a "stronger than you" card, that's like saying water is deadlier then fire simply because water's a counter to fire, yet if you put your hand in fire you'll suffer injury, do the same with water, it's harmless. 2. Diablo refuses to target the parts of Zegion's body that contains Rimuru's cells, which puts a major handicap on Diablo against Zegion.
Not sure why you brought up Feldway because he's irrelevant here. However, what do you mean that he's a "higher being" then Diablo? Higher in power? Sure. Higher plain of existence? No, he's a primordial just like Diablo but for angels, he's not a true dragon, which are the only entities that are on a higher plain of existence to fully evolved primordials.
Wat ur saying is true but then again da insectar lord zelaneous himself hates da primordials cause they have interfered too much in their plan to occupy territories..zegion doesn't stand a chance against da primordials actually..they r known as maintainers of power balance of da worlds for a reason..
Diablo only serious when needed or being commanded by Rimuru. Most of his battles are being held back. So yes Diablo is the strongest, even Rimuru acknowledge that.
it was funny in the manga.
Adalman : "Rimuru-sama!"
Shuna : "Great, he's another Diablo..." (facepalm)
I love that panel of Shuna telling Adalmann about Rimuru and after he says "Lord Rimuru, what a divine name he has" Shuna palms her head thinking "great, he's another Diablo".
I think Diablo, Adalmann and Zegion(in that order) all worship Rimuru while the rest just respect and really look up to him.
Wait ultimate skill can exits only one right soo hooww geld got beezlebub
@@MoJiTo-_- because 1. Rimuru doesn't have it anymore, Ciel combined it into Void God Azathoth. 2. She gave Geld a weaker version (gourmet king instead of gluttonous king) and iirc it's a gift and not a skill.
@@MoJiTo-_- geld has
Gourmet king beelzebub
And
Rimuru had
Gluttonous king Beelzebub
See the difference?
The Religion leader:Diablo
Rimurism priest:Adalmann
Rimuruism Guard:Zegion
The Executionors of Rimuruu:
Carrera
Ultima
Testa
Diablo
Zegion
Kumara
Shion
The above,say shit to or about rimuru and think that you're dead if rimuru isn't present to stop them.
Ranga
Benimaru
Etc excluded
@@luciferdontreadmydescription nice list. You forgot Raine though. Diablo showed her the glory of Rimuru-sama and she's the newest convert of Rimuruism. She even cheered for Diablo when he sparred with Guy and is the artist drawing portraits of Rimuru (Souei confiscated one from the chief financial officer of Rimuruism, Mjollmire) without his consent. And when she screwed up it was Rimuru she was apologizing to and begging for mercy, not Guy.
Souei deserves a demon seed....he was on par with benimaru for sometime in the series.
True
he's mainly for espionage and assassination. I don't think that he really needs to be a demon lord for that kind of job
I thought he got one
I don't think he need it he's already a calamity or disastrous lower level like low demon lord
Diablo is the strongest. He just doesn't want to fight Zegion since part of Zegions body is rimurus flesh 😂
No zegion is a demon's natural enemy remember the rule demon beats angels angels beats spirits, spirits beat demon, a worm type beast is a spirit, so just think if diablo as a fire type pokemon and zegion is a water type altough diablo is indeed stronger than zegion if zegion wasnt a worm type monsters altough im not counting borrowed nihility energy because diablo is more skilled at using nihility
I don't know if I remember correctly but matching the ancient race of Zegion and Demons being same power level as Angels or they somewhat fear his race so.... It would be correct to call Zegion strongest
......Diablo is probably stronger than Zegion if we go off what he said in V18. BUT Zegion definitely has better feats and statements.
Although I do think Carrera could also be stronger than Diablo
@@communitygamer117 yeah with her gun kek
@@communitygamer117 Well she has a higher attack power but I still can't see her beating Diablo especially with his mad experience in fighting as veldora stated he had been in over 1000 battle scenarios
When I hear the 12 patrons of Rimuru... I always imagine that it would be the 12 arch priest of Rimuru... Like they are the 12 head priest that are loyal to their God Rimuru
Consider that like half of the 12 are worship Rimuru like a God... And other half follow him as their supreme leader... That statement "Like they are the 12 head priest that are loyal to their God Rimuru" is not far of from Truth... no matter Rimuru aware or not =w=
Not far off tbh
Only Diablo, Adalmann and Zegion see Rimuru as their "God". The rest just really respect, look upto and admire him.
its 3 of the 12 that worship him. Diablo, Zegion, and Adalmann
Rimuru is a freaking devil to be able to scam Guy Crimson to give him mORe souls than needed to evolve Guy's maids,Rain and Mizari into a demon peer.Well,the guy don't actually intend to do that but Raphael is the one who actually requested it
raphael*
he scammed guy crimson at volume 14 honey. Ciel still does not exist at that volume. : /
How is it scamming if your beein paid for evolving others. Wouldn't make sense to just evolve others for free. Try find a jewel crafter hand him the materials and demand non payment since you provide materials
@@rasalghul1904 the fuck are you spouting about? If guy didn't know that it should only approximately 200,000 souls needed to evolve the two primordials, which means it's still a scam. I mean you also have a point dear, but it's just a fucking comparison. Additionally, do you even have a brain? If we compare 100,000 souls into 100,000 dollars it would feel like you were actually being scammed without knowing it. We need to use our common sense logic on these types of negotiations, dear.
TBH Rimuru was'nt suppose to scam guy ... it was Lord Of Wisdom : Raphael who suggested that he should get 500k souls instread of just 200k souls this making the culprit Raphqel or Manas: Ciel
I'm still dead ass surprised that Zegion fucking became a Dragon Lord. Dude was literally a fucking beetle when Rimuru met and saved him..
Wasn't he the son of the insectoid king tho?
@@Narteyyy Ya he is basically the direct descendant of the Insectar king Zelanus who according to Dino is in the same realm of strength as Guy
@@sondragneel3471 no, same realm to guy is zeth and zalario not zelanus
@@emperor.rem2023 dude zalario is not on guys level, what r u reading
@@sondragneel3471 he has 20M EP while Guy has almost. 40M, and zalario fighting diablo right now in LN tho
damn i cant imagine how the other demon lords reacting after rimuru bringing 12 new born demon lords in future walpurgis
Well, he won't. The reason why he gave each one of them titles is exactly because he didn't want them to be patronized as demon lords by the other races.
That doesn't mean that they are not true demon lords, it just means that the populace don't consider them as such. Or rather, they don't know and will probably not want to know.
Just imagine a hypothetical country, one that claims that they have a weapon so strong it can blow up the planet in one go. Now imagine another country claiming that they have 12 of those. Even the most pessimistic of doubters would hope that it's not real.
8 -> 20 members. i dont really see a noticable difference
@@genshinult1039 he added like 12 SUPER AWAKENED Demon lords...
he can't true demon lord evolution =/= demon lord title
@@aaronpingol1566 why would you spoil that?
I really love how venom looks..like a delinquint boy🤣
I love the relationship that forms between venom and masayuki.
Benimaru - Flare Spirit oni
Zegion - Water Spirit Oni
Ranga - Wind Spirit Oni
Kumara - Earth Spirit Oni
Shion - Divine Spirit Oni
Yup.
Avatar spirit
Zegion is not water spirit oni hahah oni applies only on ogres, zegion is water insect god
Oni are only from Benimaru and Shion race
Imagine having a whole empire with demon lords. If Rimuru wanted to, he could rule the world. The once looked down on monster, a slime, becoming a demon lord and then one of the true dragons. An "Ultimate Slime".
i was trying to just get the jist of what to expect in the future anime episodes but i didnt expect benimaru the impregnate 2 woman at once lmaoooo
Wait holuuup, He impregnated 2 wamen at the same time? If so what da dog doi'n?
@@thatdumbteen6812 threesom maybe !? 😅
Y'know, i love tensura. First it was for me an isekai. An Isekai with typical RPG elements. But it grew and grew to something amazing. Now after having seen you video. I kinda thought that this evolution System reminds me of Digimon, or Pet Raising games. That's what i loved even more.
I hope there will be a kind of Action-/RPG /Disgaea / Digimon game of Tensura ~
probably there will be a sort of MMO, just like FF14
That's what hate abt tensura
my man Benimaru out there scoring.
Sadly he din't marry rimuru
I love this ! This video is the closest explanation from the light novel. I was looking for this one.
Diablos the strongest, even Guy Crimson considers Diablo to be his equal
Barely zegion and Benimaru are close
@@lndrm6186 zegion's like really close, wdym, he's arguably stronger than diablo, if not equal, he has a skill that can alter reality, plus, he's stronger jn melee combat
Well, he IS a primordial
@@felipeshannkarln.121 half of Rimuru’s subordinates have an ability that can alter reality, he ain’t special
@@tanakerrr yeah, but zegion's skill is superior out of all those subordinates you are talking about. it's as strong as shion's unique skill (if not stronger)
I read the novel and it's crazy how much development gobta had. He started off as a joke in the series that got his ass beat for fans amusement but my man kept growing and became one of the strongest monsters in the series. Benimaru also becomes a demon lord as well according to the novel.
Hii, may I know if where can I read the novel for free?
I really want the anime to show Rimiru's relationship with Zeigon.
Rimuru already saved zegion and apito in the slime diary, they already started developing their relationship
If Diablo was just interested in getting stronger long before he became Rimuru's subordinate, this discussion about Zegion being stronger than Diablo would've not come to existence
The light novel said Diablo was so strong that his illusion magic was on par with zeigion's proving he is stronger
I dont think magic is Zegions strong suit tho, but a demon like Diablos strong suit *is* magic, so if theyre equal in magic I think Zegion would be stronger
@@carrotmango3650 Zegion ultimate skill is illusion based magic and that's what he referred to.
where can i read the light novel
According only to rimuru diablo is strongest but it's not valid, we all know rimuru tend to said praise always...
@@emperor.rem2023 what are u reading? Diablo is the strongest patron among the 12 guardians, zegion is indeed the second strongest
Doesn't Shion evolve during battle...she becomes the war spirit Oni, and literally becomes the bane of all spirits. Making her basically the ultimate bodygaurd for Rimuru that to be honest no one except Guy, milim and the true dragons can really go up against with guarantee to win at the final stages of the story?
she didn't evolve during the gifting festival but she did evolve when she fought against the humanoid bug Razul, and yeah I guess I should have mentioned that in my video 😅
@@AnimeRumpai She didnt evolve fighting razul iirc, only obtained another unique skill, the reason she didnt evolve during the ceremony was because there were two evolution options and ciel only figured which one would be best in the middle of her fight with the other worm-type/insectoid under rudra/michael so she evolved into a berserker spirit or something like that
Shion evolved while fighting Minaza into a "Fighting Spirit Oni"(translation could be wrong). this evolution has no ultimate but it has the power to defeat enemies with ultimate skills.
@@justanothergamer3675 Is this LN? its said she has the Ultimate skill the Susanoo.
@@saturnaurora8891 the LN isnt done yet, maybe in the next volume she will obtained the ultimate skill
The video was very informative and I like your accent 😍
tq so much, 😂
I don't really care who's the strongest. I'm just happy my boi Adalman became a True Demon Lord. 🤧❤️
As someone who only watched the Anime, i hope that they are many seasons yet to come, just like in OV
What about Gobta? I remember he got REALLY strong once, but why didn't he awaken?
if I'm not mistaken, I think that Gobta didn't awaken because he didn't meet the requirement for awakening.
Also you're right, Gobta did get really strong when he combined with Ranga, so technically if he combined with an awakened Ranga, he will be on the level of a true demon lord.
This video is incorrect. It is based on the web novel which is not cannon. None of this has happened in the light novel yet and significant changed will most likely be made since the author considers the web novel a rough draft and the light novel as the proper story.
@@EmperorOfMan I based my video research on chapter 14 of the light novel, not the web novel
@@AnimeRumpai I’m pretty sure you’re mean volume 14 but yeah although a lot of people haven’t seen past volume 12 since there are only bot translations
The only reason gobta along with hakurou and souei didn't evolve was because they don't have demon seed which is the requirement to become the demon lord
Thank you for the reminder the light novel exist now excuse me while I go read it while giving your video a like despite not watching it for spoiler reasons
Personally Among all of Rimuru’s Subordinates Geld is my Favourite
I am glad you didn't spoil Shion's full evolution since that's further down the line in the WN.
Overall power of these 3 included example. Skill, martial arts/ melee combat, race, magicule, secret arts.
1. Diablo
2. Zegion
3. Benimaru
9 tails in Naruto = Kurama
9 tails in Tensura = Kumara
🤣
Doesn't Rimuru have a skill that lets him use and maximize the skills of all of his subordinates or named creatures? If that's the case do the ultimate skills count too?
Prolly :P
Considering how broken rimuru is... yes lol
What would happen if it acuierd master cheff
Its called Wisdom Lord Raphael and Food Chain
That's his Ultimate Skill Uriel, King of Covenants.
I'm only familar with the Web Novel, in that Geld, and Aldaman turned down their evolution because of feelings of inadeqises and Rimmuru delayed their evolution because he didn't want to force them and he was a little low on souls. Shion also didn't show any immediate sign of evolution though her Yamigari did get a harvest festival evolution. Aldaman and Geld, and Bennimaru evolved after the war with the eastern empire was over in order to be of more use during the Great Tenma war against the angels and Angria Manyu
...and?
What a great video! I cant wait for this stuff to get animated, I bet we will see the fox before the end of s2!
My favourite 'Shion' from day1 i saw her
Never would’ve thought the cute beetle and wasp from slime diaries would get so strong!
12:29 I don't know if it was on purpose, but if you turn on the English Subtitles, the true nature of Shion is revealed
@RUclips are Snowflakes
Kumara evolving to K/DA Ahri Prestige Edition was the coolest in the manga
I can't wait for this to be Animated
me too, but it will take a very long time
Even the schools training on the island i want to c the poison tiger be animated
We probably won't see season 3 or 4 until a year or two from now, I'm sure i heard something of a movie in between that time also i don't know though
Cant wait for Kumara and Testarossa bruh they both looks so beautiful bruh
The reason why Shion didn't evolve in V14 is because Raphael ceased it. She didn't know what to give Shion as an evolution. In V15 whiles fighting Minaza, Ciel allowed her to evolve into a Divine Fighting Oni. Essentially a spiritual being with no direct weakness, an enemy of all spiritual beings.
I thought that was about the unique skill evolution, and the reason she didn't evolve was simply because they didn't know what evolution route/species best suited her
...and the reason her skills remains involved is that it has the potential to kill Rimuru
Honestly though im very proud of Gabiru. I remember when he showed up in the first season i couldn't take him seriously as he was so dumb lol.
He was the goat bruh, peak comedy from him
Gabiru and Adalman is my favorite in the 12. Hiryuu's my favorite unit in the JTF.
That sucks none of the goblins became demon lords. They were the first group to join
gobta is sometimes fusing with Ranga in order for him to have a humanoid form
There is actually an explanation about why Shion didn't evolve in the first instance. It's later explained during the battle with Eastern empire, when Shion is fighting one of the guards of the emperor, Ciel (the evolution of Raphael) explains that took a while to discover the most appropriate evolution to Shion, so in the middle of the battle she awakens as a true demon lord and her race changes to a "fighting Oni". Also if you probably noticed all of the 12 patrons have an ultimate skill except for Shion, this is also explained. Ciel explains that she didn't gave Shion an ultimate skill not because she is not capable, but because she is literally the cristalization of power and giving her one would turn her into a person capable of killing even Rimuru, so she decided not to given her anyone
ZEGION IS ALWAY BE MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IN THE SERISE.
Come with me into the paradise 😆
My only question is what event happened in which Rimeru got over a million souls so that he could evolve all these people? I’ve only seen the anime so hearing that Rimeru “forced” the demon lord evolution onto 12 people is crazy.
It was during the attack of the Eastern Kingdom. I don't want to spoil anything, so I won't saz more, but it was one of the best arcs if you ask me. I cannot recommend the LN enough, it is truly amazing!
he scammed guy crimson
I believe he killed 1M people because they took veldora and manipulated him?
But im not entirely sure, Never read it
@@gaborkiss2206 hello can I ask if there are properly translated chps of the LN until the end of eastern kingdom war?
@@lilybelle2464 there are. You can even find them online.
Are you from Malaysia..?if yes will subscribe your channel, clearly this is my first time found someone sharing about tensura..good content 👍🏻
Haha yes I am from Malaysia
I just realised kumara's name is just kurama with switched letters and also called the nine tailed fox
Damn Rimuru just have 12 True Demon Lords as a subordinate
Ranga is the best boy in this show and you cannot fight me on this! He is the bestest boy and you cannot deny it!
I kinda feel bad for Benimaru being rushed to marry and have children, but given that the evolution was rushing to him, it makes sense. But I wish he had time to think and date.
I would like to complement you on the background musics of this video for characters with different backstory , something not many RUclipsrs do...
I think when kumara grows up, she will be the strongest with a huge margin cuz she got named 9 times😅
She cant grow up becoming a demon lord doesnt age u anymore, look a milim she still body of a child and acts like a child
But she prob will get stronger as time passes on because she'll fight more ppl (but idk if the story will even go on further than that)
@@zaksilva3286 yeah that's the same case from Milim who became a true demon lord at early age
Nice content bro
Can’t wait til you blow up
10:16 "He's another Diablo" xD
Goes into a new world "there's a few demon lords here.... I might as well have more then the exiting amount of them work just for me"
A kingdom home to monsters, demons, greater demons, demon peer, demon lords, hero, true dragon, God tier creature(Rimuru) on top of that super cheat computer Ciel. This is so fuckin broken kingdom.. legendary cheat kingdom. Not even Guy can go into war with Rimuru.
I love Rimuru!!!! His gift lies in his humanity and sincerity overall. On top of that he is one hell of a leader and a businessman. He does not rule by force unless the situation calls for it or if his hand is pushed to such action such as evil humans attacked his country. Honestly I put him at the same league with Anos demons yes but they love peace while getting to their bad side is never a good idea. However in a fight for me Anos takes it because of a major advantage HUGE MANA POOL, Rimuru has been shown numerous times that despite being the God that he is he runs out of Mana while Anos has no concrete evidence of such event. Sure he died but that is only because he wanted to. He converted his Mana into a Hakkai barrier. In short Anos will only loose if he wants to loose.
After end of the series rimuru will have unlimited mana pool 🔥🔥
@@diablo9044 But got to admit dude head to head this is a hard match up as both are in all sense of the word DEMON KINGS Literally. Conventional stats such as AP resiliency speed etc are irrelevant that is why to me the MANA Pool is crucial and as of now Rimuru having that sleep mode means more than likely in a high level magic battle as Anos is no fodder and even if his mana pool is finite chances are Rimuru will be out of juice first!!!! And nope he cannot eat Anos for one he has that Hakkai Barrier along with a ton of hax equal if not greater in both quantity and quality than Rimuru!!!! Not to mention he has at least 1000 years of experience!!!! As I said he died yes but only because he got bored to the point of even the demon king he seeks peace ha ha.
We are talking about infinity pool you know at the end of web novel Rimuru mana pool is enough to destroy and rebuild ten of thousand of mutiverse in turn anos has to sacrifice his core to split just one world to three parts than talk about this and so Rimuru pool from web novel is not the strongest because the light novel is still ongoing and he is broken so much
@@ravemasterharu anos is op but in the end rimuru literally becomes a fucking omnipotent being like literally he's just that OP also yes infinite mana pool too.
What about Souei, can someone explain why hes not in the 12 patreons? or did he take another type of title from Rimuru?
He did get another title from Rimuru, but he didn't meet the requirements to become a True DL, I believe it was because Souei was like the shadow of Benimaru, the one that always stays hidden and things like that, and he was practically considered like a subordinate from Benimaru, so that's why he is not in those 12 patrons.
@@diegocantu725 ohhh, thanks for telling me, have a nice day man
love your singapore-malay accent
I thought that was Indian accent
“Being the cheeky little fucker Rimuru was” hilarious
That’s who the stag beetle was!!!? I completely forgot that part hahahaha
Shion didn't evolve basically cause she was jealous and worried Rimiry would forget her someday or she would be obsolete. She finally let's that go and evolved in the middle of a fight.
She evolved into a spiritual life form but still didn't get an ultimate skill like everyone else did, ciel is still worried that a rule-altering/law-defying ultimate skill would damage rimuru :(
@@carrotmango3650 you talking with right? Cause her jusdgement chef did evolve in wn to an ultimate skill. Ill grab name of ot tomorrow, gotta find chapter again.
Tyrant King Susanoo. Basically she warps reality to her own desires. Simplest way to put it.
@@oziebanksIV in WN not in LN.
Shion gots a ultimate now should do an update video for her
Shion as of volume 19 of the light novel has no ultimate skill
Anime-onlies are likely shocked by the term 'true Demon Lord' and it not just being connected to Rimuru.
it makes sense actually why Rimuru isn’t the only true demon lord because not one thing is a true object there are always more
@@animehades6182 I mean if they get stronger he gets stronger aswell so it just makes sense
12:00 "But after scamming Guy the demon lord of over HALF A MILLION (500 000) souls he managed to awaken them as true demon lords"
Yo man he good merchant (everyone knows that fantasy merchants are VERY DANGEROUS, even more dangerous than some demon lords I would say)
That is a scam, the true number is 1/5 of a milion
Shion evolved during the battle with Dagruel. And btw, Diablo is the strongest because he's the first one to master the "nihilitic" (not sure about the spelling) energy from rimuru and he was also able to move during "stopped time" abilities.
Wn or Ln what version did you read?
What about my boy gobta? 🤧
Btw did shion Produce a child too
Just like benimaru?
Cuz that would be great!
That space after the open bracket in the title gives me pain (despite not having OCD).
I say 1 diablo 😈
2 zegion
3 benimaru
yeah i think that sounds about right XD
It depends diablo is stronger, and more skilled at using the nihility energy but if he fought zegion he will probably lose just consider diablo a fire type pokemon and zegion is water type, diablo IS stronger but if he fought zegion he will lose
@@TrapConnoisseur. naa bro diablo 😈 will clap chicks because of experience he literally is as old as the plant because he is one of the primordial.
Still I appreciate your reply
@@TrapConnoisseur. if your entering the concept of Pokemon types here ill still tell that Diablo is stronger,lets say that Zegion is Blastoise and Diablo is Charizard,thats how the concept of three way match work,it doesn't literally mean that an angel would always win against a demon but the fact that the angels HAVE the upper hand against demon is the truth
So yeah back to Char and Blas,Blas would win,thats one would say if they dont what level Char is,if your putting in the concept of pokemon type here,then I'll pit this in
Blastoise = Lvl. 70
Charizard = Lvl. 90
@@TrapConnoisseur. Let me add one more thing, I'm pretty sure you know that Diablo is a Primordial Demon,demons that exist in he beginning of time,along with the Primordial Angels and The Great Spirits,Diablos experience and wisdom in battle will surely make him uo against Zegion,add the fact that when they have a battle,Diablo is not attacking the parts of Zegion that have Rimurus flesh on them,so he's holding back
Let pretend if all the 12 patrons have a practice fight with rimuru, where they all up against rimuru 12vs1. I don’t think Rimuru will obtain the victory, will he? Yet, to be worthy of such powerful patrons require powerful surpass those below him. This is to maintain the superior position if thing leading to a unexpected direction. This inquiry is relate to power, despite loyalty.
Umm bro i think your wrong Rimuru can easily erase UNIVERSES they don't stand a chance
Btw
The stronger he grows the stronger his subortinates grow and vice versa
Bro, Rimuru in the novels is much stronger, in the end of the Webnovel he became as strong as a God or Veldanava or even stronger, he could even devour a black hole like it’s nothing.
@@nowtoday1488 thats basic even testa can do it
they don't need to surpass him though, he solos his verse low diff, the way i sww it they're just in it so rimuru can flex
I mean Diablo wasn't lying when he said the mask was connected to rimuru and he would have the power to control time and space and decided to serve him because
Later at the end of the series
Rimuru lost to yuuki and got banished to the ends of time and space
He absorbed large of amounts of nuitililty thus gaining the power to control time and space and he returned and defeated yuuki
thing is, the space time control is actually from a pretty non descript teleport skill he picked up from some empire gall, which it turns out lets you teleport.... ANY where,when. you just need the energy for it.
Didnt lose just got pushed in that realm. Yuuki was using desperate measures at that point. We were hinted a few chapters before that when discussing Chloe (if readers read thoroughly) that Rimiru could and will control space and time
11:59 I love this
Bro rimuru just dominated the whole world in just years
fuck. this is the first time i regret ignoring the spoiler alert :(
I like how people arguing about diablo and the bug power when its in writing that rimuru said diablo is his strongest servant 💁♂️
They just can't accept da reality of LN..im also appalled by these people.
Feels like it's going to be a Alexzander the Great kind of situation if Rimuru dies.
He will not die he will end up becoming a true greate demon lord which will turn him into a multiversal being.. DEATH will be irrelevant to him
Thats a big IF like thats ever gonna happen
You have his 12 patreons, Then rimuru himself which is ridiculously stronger than all 12 combined :P
how far into the lightnovel*** is this? because i am genuinely hyped if this gets animated
it hasnt happened yet in the manga, this is from volume 14 of the light novel
O
@@inc0gnit0derp75 so 2 more seasons lmao
@@TrapConnoisseur. 2 seasons = 6 Volumes so this will probably be animated at the end of season 5
i just wonder that rimuru has all different species of people under his command from spirits to demon why does he not have angels under his command
Because they will be targeted by Angels next. Its called the Tenma War arc. Angels destroy countries that are progressing too much
@@tsukinercua And sadly for the Angels, Rimuru is just too powerful to stop. Btw, you already met an angel (fallen), he is that lazy sleepy Demon Lord.
Haha don't worry he has insectars far more superior than angels
Can you talk about the 12 patrons squads like what species they are in the light novel and what purpose each squad has
Im just glad BeniAlbis sailed + momiji
So benimaru's post nut clarity caused him to awaken as a true demon lord? 😂😂. I can't wait to see these episodes animated. It's gonna be hilarious watching benimaru get flustered.
Correction. Gabiru's ultimate gift is Pierrot star. It changes the worst outcome into a fortunate one for Gabiru.
Adalmann got a Ultimate Gift, not a Ultimate Skill iirc
naming hells rimmuru went through
Group 1: OG Goblins(Rigurd, Rigurd, Gobta), the direwolf pack
Group 2: All the other Goblins who flocked to tempest while away at Dwargon
Group 3: The remnants of the Ogre tribe
Group 4: The Orcs and Lizardman after the Orc Disaster is defeated
Group 5: The Black Numbers demons
Rimmuru named others on a case by case basis for example Gozu and Mezu, Zegion and Apito, Diablo, Kumara and her eight tails, Berretta, Wenti, and the 4 Dragon Lords(the dragons used souls instead of rimmurus magicules) and most importantly Ciel.
12:30 "Ogre to a kitchen" 😂😂😂😂😂😂
turn the subtitles on
I haven't read the light novel but I'm hoping hakurou becomes a demon king cause he would be in the top 5 strongest lol
How crazy is it that Kumara has the strength of 9 NAMED MONSTERS AND IS NOT A TOP 3 STRONGEST SUBORDINATE!
What a anime amazing world building story
My opinion on their rankinv of strongest to weakest
1. Diablo no doubt
2. Zegion bruh bodied dino
3. Benimaru op as f but not astrong as other
4. Testaross
5. Carrera
6. Ultima
7. Shion im kinda biased to primordial trio to shion adn they have more potential than her
8. Kumara she has the potential to be in the top 5 atleast but because of the lack of experience she isnt top 5
9. Adalman super strong
10. Ranga he isnt the most op but aslong as he is in rimuri shadow he would keep getting stronger but i barely remeber why
11. Gabiru their strongest air type batler
12. Geld isnt a firghter but the sheild of tempest
The irony is how they are talking about power balance when the MC is so OP. LMAO
I keep hearing you said- “he became the -goddamn- of the @& floor….” Until I realized you meant -Guardian-… lol.
So you're saying Gabiru will get yet another makeover, with larger horns and scales turning from blackish-purple to redish-purple, with an "obsidian-like artistic quality"?
I am VERY curious to see how that will get adapted, either in the anime or gacha game first...
I always found it weird that shuna didn't get evolved further?
that could easily be a "she's better as a cute oni princess"by the creator as well you see shuna fight she's quite good XD
He must have made Souei a demon lord as well
Jeez Rimurus got 4 Primordials under him