Hardest bestest jazz songs. Old rare stuff. The hardest to appreciate jazz. U know it gets better people stop listening I want to know the best. So i can show my son the top of the jazz mountain.
"Everything we need is already right here in front of us. It always has been. It was left to us by the masters. All we have to do is investigate". Hats off to u bro'. Investigation: 9/10ths of creativity...♨️
I’ve been playing Donna Lee since the late ‘80s and can say that this is a very generous lesson. A really great player gave me a similar tip back then and I took it to heart. Actually, all of Bird’s tunes are goldmines - not just Donna Lee - but it is one of the bestest! Cheers
While Donna Lee is great for bebop and swing styles, there are many great pieces that teach us so much. The key, as you said, is internalizing the music. Memorize it, try and understand it, break it down into pieces, sing it, play it in different styles, tempos, and instruments. Also, intangibles like mood and emotion.. Think of yourself as an actor... What story, stories, is the piece trying to tell. Sometimes it takes years, even after learning the notes perfectly. Rhythm and what is idiomatic to your instrument. Personally I am a big fan of classical pieces. (Bach) for what they can teach us, although they are a bit difficult to decipher. Just learning a few of Bach's composition has been very helpful over the years.
@@ejtonefan for example, in Bach, bar 5 of the second cello suite prelude; or bar 8 of the first piano prelude in C major. Just in response to your question.
(Your implication, that major 7th chords were not the most common statement of a tonal center in the 1700s, is of course correct-just that the numerous examples show that Bach and others had that sound in their language.)
GREAT BREAKDOWN!! you are right. The masters left it ALL. It is such a wonderful gift to have you break it all down slowly. Also - you might want to point out that a tune like Donna Lee has a 'fundamental Inner Tune" --- at least this is how I hear it. When you hear the inner tune - which is actually not a complicated tune, then you can hear how the 'twists and turns' that Charlie articulates - Miuch like Shakespeare, explaining in poetry what he just said in prose, act as a 'super articulation of the inner melody. Yet essentially the inner melody is the fundamental key to the whole song. So BIRD, writes a tune while simultaneously taking us all around the block into a deeper understanding of the tune -- a BEBOP musical journey. (all this before he even solos !!!) Do you have a class that talks about this inner tune thing?
There are many that believe Miles wrote this, including Miles. Having played these tunes for many years, it seems to me that there is some language that is not typical of Bird, although his vocab was huge. In fact the chromatics in the first lick sound more like Miles than Bird.
It's based on Ice Freezes Red , trumpet solo. The melody is based 80% on Fat Girl's solo. Miles wrote Donna Lee based on Fats crib. Miles could Not play this!! Each take is slower and slower until he does ok. Listen to Fats play Donna Lee live Metro nome All Stars broadcast. Fats is King of long phrases. Played a lot with Maggie.
@@ebjazz Not so fast. Check out "Tiny's Con," written by drummer/composer/arranger Tiny Kahn, and recorded by clarinetist Aaron Sachs in June 1946, almost a year before Bird recorded "Donna Lee." There's a definite similarity between the two tunes. ruclips.net/video/fayt31lQiDI/видео.html
@@davidjordan5175 Also search out 'Tiny's Con' recorded on June 8, 1946 by Aaron Sachs And The Manor Re Bops (Aaron Sachs, clarinet; Terry Gibbs, vibes; Gene DiNovi, piano; Clyde Lombardi, bass; Tiny Kahn, drums).
Although your lessons are way above my level of ability at present, the content and the way you explain it helps to strengthen my musical understanding and inspires me to push on. Thank you!
Hi Adam - just want to give you a big shout out for these lessons - recent find on my part and I play guitar and can still consume these and they are great! and the enthusiasm is equally enjoyable - keep on! and Thank you.
Yes. Also very close to the C Phrygian Flat 4 (3rd mode of Ab Harmonic Major); George Russell would relate that to the Db Lydian Diminished (Db Melodic Minor + 4). Same notes, Only difference is that theses scales do not contain the note F; whereas the Barry Harris Ab Major 6th Diminished scale does. Not surprisingly, F i s the tonic target it resolves to in the case of the C7--->F. Really cool stuff.
I think much more in terms of triads and arpeggios (and whatever passing or chromatic tones between them), but I must admit it is easier for me to target the "secret dom7 scale" tones by playing off a "blues scale" built on the 7th degree of the current Dom 7. F7 - play Eb blues scale gives you the 7th, root, b9, #9, 3rd, 4/11, 5th, b13 of that F7.
I remember as a young pianist I once played that “secret dominant scale” and thought I invented it lol. Then I heard bird on this exact recording and felt really bad for the next few weeks
I got an ad for alcohol and it had a really nice beat right after you said lets listen to it I was like I wonder where he is going with this not what I expected. So funny.
@ Sean Cushnie: If you're anything like I was years ago - and I am a bassist & guitarist, too, who started on bass just as you have - learning Charlie Parker tunes on guitar will challenge you to think about bebop and jazz differently, and the nature of how to play guitar differently. 'Bird tunes don't lay naturally on guitar in standard tuning, for the most part, at least that's my take on it - so you have to learn ways of finessing that. And since many of his tunes move out at pretty quick tempos, you'll have to learn that, too, at least if you want to play the head (melody) like he did. And then there's the solos.... Bottom line is that modern jazz is not a form of music centered around guitar; if anything it is centered around horns and horn players. So as I see it, the challenge is to make your guitar playing more horn-like.
@@seancushnie974 - Years ago, when jazz guitar great Wes Montgomery was asked about his practice habits, he humorously-quipped "I just open up the guitar case every once in a while and throw in a piece of meat!" and he was totally correct! The guitar is a total beast, a real monster to be tamed, and you have to be willing to pay the price to do it. If you want to play jazz at a high level on the instrument, you have to be damned near a virtuoso. I didn't say that; I think Mark Whitfield did or maybe Bobby Broom. In other words, hang tough.
I still remember the sense of personal victory I felt when I first really played the melody of that tune. Jaco's take inspired me years before, and even after getting it down in a preliminary sense, it is endlessly instructive :)
Psst.. Don't tell anyone, the secret dominant scale is just the major bepop scale starting from the third degree. So if you play C maior/diminished, everthing is already embedded: C6 vs G7b9, Am7 vs E7b9. But please don't tell anyone🤫
Thank you, Sir! I have only listened to 5:05 minutes of your video thus far. I have been playing "at" Donna Lee since college and the Bb harmonic scale since High School. I have never thought of playing the over the F7 chord. I had to stop the video and sit down at my piano in my studio and try it out. I will definitely watch the remainder of your video. Cheers, ap
I agree with you. All sorts of scales, lines chromatic neighbors. Lately I've been learning in all twelve keys, which has really opened up some fingering puzzles for me to figure out and get smooth in all keys. On tenor g flat concert is taking some time. I'll get it. Playing the lines forward and backward helps too.
I am so under the average player enthusiast its beyond ridiculous; thats my disclaimer. I like this because it shows an argument to what i've heard about modern music (classical and jazz in general) being "dissonant" and sort of un or non-resolved patterns that philosophically / spiritually lead to, &/or come from, chaos. This proves there really is beauty and form in the genre.
The Secret Dominant Scale appears to be the 5th mode of the Bebop Harmonic Minor Scale. Bebop Harmonic Minor = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-7 & the 5th mode of Bebop Harmonic = 1-b2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7. Though modes of Bebop scales aren't usually talked about much from what I've seen anyway.
Thank you for this! I spend a lot of years playing sitar. Much to the chagrin of my traditionalist acquaintances, I often experimented with non-raga based music. I used the head for Donna Lee as an exercise on sitar. It was,,, well,,, you get the idea! LOL! You have inspired me to work on the piece again!
I’ve played preformed Donna Lee more than any other jazz song. I learned the head in 2 octaves. The upper octave was figured out by me and Sid Jacobs at MI. We used economy picking and were able to play it at blistering speeds.
Music is mainly a sequence of harmony with melody. All you need is melody as there are many backtrack handouts there for you to practice and use. Melody could be complex but a drone helps a lot to understand dissonance or ornamentations
My pops was raised in Detroit, played trumpet, and was a young bebop kid before hard bop revolution era and frequently played with Charles McPherson when they both lived in NYC during that '70s period and I used to go with my pops quite frequently to his gigs, the majority of which were clubs down in the West Village and to my recollection I never heard them play Donna Lee. Now, when my father co-lead a quintet with Charlie Rouse, I heard them play Donna Lee once and that was during the early mid '80s in Sweet Basil's. Of course it was required learning because Bird's music (and/or Miles with Bird) was required learning and performing for those cats in the mid 1950s, but it wasn't a tune that I ever heard performed live to my memory, but I was between 5 and 16 years old, so maybe they did play it when I wasn't there. When Jaco Pastorius' debut album came out, his version reignited interest in Donna Lee. I'm thinking one of the reason why that tune wasn't performed that often was because it was originally in Ab and maybe that key was not favored a lot bebop purist cats since blues and other bebop tunes or adaptations of standards tunes were played in F, Bb, C, maybe (?) and for me, Ab was a real pain in the butt to walk over when I was learning. But, I think this video is a really good idea and I'm going to check it out because one can always learn, as I am not a jazz player.
Just a note: although Donna Lee has been traditionally credited to Bird, it seemingly was actually written by Miles (named after a woman bass player who was on the scene at the time). This makes a lot of sense to me in terms of Miles in that period being a serious student of the music, studying classical scores at Julliard in the day and playing with Bird at night, trying to decode that language. My theory is that Miles wrote it in exactly the spirit of what you're talking about, as a kind of bebop etude.
I'm a saxophone player. But I played trumpet a little so I could teach some students. I played Donna Lee on trumpet, and anyone who ever plays this head on the trumpet would tell you that it lays under 'trumpet' fingers very naturally. Not to mention that I lived next door to max Roach in the 80's, and he corroborated this fact.
The scale in bar 31. 3 flat 9 1 7 going in sequence is magic. I played that scale a million times over 30 years but never understood it. Until one day I was studying D. Lee and boom, there it was.
My take on the "secret scale": bottom tetrachord is the altered dominate; top is a minor tetrachord with 11 and 5, not whole-tone like altered dominate including a b5. Just goes to show that like Joe Abercrombie humorously quipped "the chromatic scale fits every dominate chord".
The key to playing mode V of Bb harm. min over the F7 in measure 2 is making sure that the note "Bb" resolves logically to the "A" (as, of course, Parker does in the head.)
I love this. I grew up on Lee Konitz/Lennie Tristano/Warne Marsh. As much as I love their extrapolation on Pres, Roy Eldridge, Fats, Bud, Bird, I feel Lennie never got fully on top of bebop (he had his views). Lennie had his one remarkable melodic thing going. But your video has helped me.
Miles Davis actually definitely wrote “Donna Lee” @OpenStudio (compare it his other tunes of the time like “Sippin’ At Bells”- very similar, it is like a bebop ‘étude’. It was also highly influenced by Fats Navarro’s solo on the tune “Ice Freezes Red”)
Agree. The numbers on the famous Miles-led Savoy session (all formally credited to him) have a straight-ahead quality of simply blowing through the changes in an extremely creative harmonic way (for example, Half Nelson/Lady Bird which is a materpiece by any standard). Bird's Savoy compositions are far more melodic and (for the most part) involve the most distinctive and memorable phrasing units that one can recall after a single hearing (e.g. Billie's Bounce, Now's The Time, Parker's Mood). Only the most talented ears can recall the "melody" of Donna Lee after a single listen.
Yes, Miles wrote it. Even Parker confirmed that. When Gil Evans approached him to ask for a lead sheet because he wanted to arrange it for Claude Thornhill’s orchestra, Parker told him “go ask Miles, it’s his tune”. And that’s how Miles and Evans met. Miles said yes, on the condition Evans would share with him his score for his “Robin’s Nest” arrangement for Thornhill’s orchestra.
Ok. Great work and I appreciate the work it takes to do these vids. That said, I retract the previous post. You are right about what was played on that recording. However it's not what is played by most players and the books have a different transcription. Some differences: Bar 6, note 6 is a G nat, not an E nat. The chord becomes an Eb7+5 resolving to an Ab major. It's a bebop thing for sure and heightens the tension. Again in bar 8 notes 5 (Enat) & 6 (C) make that an Ab7+5. The choice of chords in the head would be up to the pianist and bassist. My guess is the RS was told it's on the changes of "Indiana" so that would be what they played. Bar 16, 4th note's an Eb. Bar 21, 4th note is an A natural in this recording but many such as Clifford Brown play an Ab . The C7 is setting up F minor, the key of the section to come. I have never seen a chart that has any of those above notes in it. I wonder why. Also if this is the first reading of the tune Bird and or Miles may have changed it in later recordings or shows taped by bootleggers or radio. The tune is a line (or contra-fact for any academics out there) on (Back Home Again in) Indiana. The F minor section, bars 21-27 is completely F minor in both tunes and is played that way by dyed in the wool beboppers. Also no one know for sure whether Bird or Miles wrote it. Maybe even Dizzy. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
You wanna know how to play melodic on this tune? Learn an old tune called (Back Home Again In) INDIANA. The chords are EASY. Play on that first before you do the Donna Lee version, which is the Indiana chords but with Parker's melody and played twice as fast. See....people get hung up on Donna Lee because they think THE MELODY is THE TUNE...which it is. But the problem is folks think the chord changes are harder than what they really are (THEY'RE NOT!) and they gotta play licks like Charlie Parker (you don't need to do that). The end result is folks playing this like Charlie Parker or some like some uber be-bop dude and EVERYONE ENDS UP SOUNDING THE SAME. It's like folks are on a mission to outdo Charlie Parker every time they play. It's stupid. Wanna learn how to play on this tune? Learn to play Indiana and then you won't ever have to deal with with Bird's version ever. The hardest thing about Donna Lee IS THE MELODY. That's all. If you learn the melody and learn how to play it FAST (there are tricks on how to make that work), then you will be 'legit' in some circles (which is a load of crap, btw...). Otherwise, enjoy the easy like baby food changes on an old pop tune like Indiana. Do this and you won't be stigmatized like the rest of us on this stupid Donna Lee song. Keep up the good work, guys.
Donna Lee was written by Miles Davis,the record company Savoy Records assumed that was written by Bird cause the rest of the compositions had been written by him
If you're asking "what scale I should play over what chord change" then you're already in the wrong place to start a path to improvisation like Bird. It's the difference between looking at music like a puzzle to be solved or viewing it as a feeling to be expressed with the melody as your anchor. You can always tell the musicians who do the latter because they never sound like themselves they always sound like stale technical copies.
Exactly. This is the mindset that bothers me, and of course, for early jazz students, it is a valid question as a starting point. But I think the goal over time is to transcend this idea that there is ONE valid scale that goes with each chord. Or even the premise that it's all scales that go with chords. Music is a much more complex system and there can be any infinite number of scales or notes that can go with the same chord, depending on what one wants to do with it. For example, in his autobiography, Miles mentions that he once told Bird "You can't play anything over any chord. Like, you can't play an E Maj scale over Bb" and Bird said "Sure you can". So Bird himself didn't believe in this idea of "What's the right scale to go with this chord"? Not to say this isn't a great video for young jazz students, and specifically, students who want to learn the bebop language. But as one gets more experienced, one wants to get away from the mentality that there's a correct scale that goes with a chord.
After a few decades as a musician I’ve come to approach jazz improv as the art of connecting two chords with a valid musical phrase. So rather than start with scale x over chord A, then switch to scale y over chord B, I will try to create a phrase which starts on chord A and connects to chord B. This is not difficult to do and was a big ear opener for me, and allowed me to relax and wait for the sound to guide my melodies.
Do you not think Charlie Parker mastered his scales and arpeggios before he could improvise like that? By all accounts, Parker was a very smart dude and I guarantee he possessed a deep theoretical understanding of what he was playing. Now, I agree with you that knowing what scales and chord tones to play alone won't get you to improvise like Bird (if anything will) but I think it's misleading to suggest that it isn't part of the process.
@@a.m.son222 Yes, which was my point: At the beginning this is how we think about music. But after that, we must learn to transcend this binary notion that "There is ONE scale for each chord". And this is not me saying it. Other musicians like Miles, Herbie and Mingus were constantly making this same point. But of course, you begin by playing only chord tones, and then playing "the scale that goes with the chord", when you're a beginner.
@@rontomkins6727 The comment I was replying to said “if you’re asking which scale should I play over what chord change then you’re already in the wrong place to start a path to improvisation like bird”. “Start a path to improvisation” is pretty clearly talking about a musician at the beginning of their journey.
Definitely. It’s an F7 with leading tones to each chord tone, (except for the Bb, which I might play as B natural ), giving you a pure diminished or octatonic scale.
On the 13th measure over a Bb7 if the 6th note isn't an Ab then the line ceases to be functional. You just can't keep hammering on the Major 7 over a dominant chord. Anyway by measure 14 I've changed that 13th chord to a Bbalt7 so Dimwt scale in 14. Works for me.
Adam: You don't have to play it up to speed on your first day. Me: Can you give me two years? I have learned this on both guitar and upright bass and don't have either up to speed, but I guess it's time to work on this again. Great lesson, Adam!
So I have revisited this since 8 months ago. I got it going from memory on the guitar. This gem and a few others caused me injury on the upright bass. Have been diagnosed with carpal tunnel in my left forearm. Not wanting to get surgery, so the bass has not been out of the case for almost a year. Can play at half speed on the guitar. Going to try to improve that.
It’s funny because most jazz guys just seem to know that there’s something different and special about “Donna Lee.” I’m glad someone’s here to explain the nitty gritty of it.
No, the secret dominant scale I believe has both an added major 3rd and a flat 6 as opposed to the dorian natural 6 of the Dorian b2 scale, so it’s octatonic
The "secret dominant scale" is a Bebop Harmonic Minor scale or sometimes just Bebop Minor, and is octatonic. 1 2 ♭3 4 5 ♭6 ♭7 7 You could think of it as "harmonic minor with an added ♭7", or "natural minor with an added M7". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop_scale#Bebop_harmonic_minor_scale
Thanks! Love the name you gave to that scale - "secret dominant". I've been playing and teaching that scale for years as one of the best things to play over a dominant of a minor chord, but have been surprised that no one mentions it in any jazz theory book. I finally found it in Dan Greenblatt's excellent "Minor is Major" (he calls it "Harmonic Bebop"). I love how it has the same notes as the relative major's "major bebop scale" (or Barry Harris's dim 6th scale).
I always called it an “octatonic harmonic minor”, because of an addition of major 6th. So, the scale of octatonic Bb harmonic minor would actually have (in notation) both 6ths :minor 6 Gb, and major 6 G#. That directly results in F7(#9) dominant, with G# being that sharp 9 in F7. That’s how Miles Davis treated it, so did Oscar Peterson, John Coltrane etc.
this secret harmonic scale is just the bebop scale of Ab major… indoibt charlie parker thought about it like this. he is basically shifting the chord changes. he onlynactually lands om the F7 at the 3rd tempo of the bar. so on the A basically. sonhe is using a bebop scale of Ab going down until the 3rd of A. Its much easier to undestand like this
The Secret Dominant Scale is like combining harmonic and natural minor. Your/Bird's extra note, #9 of the dominant, is b7 of the parent scale, giving it both min and Maj 7. I'm sure you know this already. I just mention it, if it might help some folks plug it into their fingerings.
Fellas, I believe when he refers to the “secret dominant scale, I believe what he’s describing is a phrygian dominant (5th mode of harm minor) with an ADDED #9, on Bb that would be Bb Cb C# D Eb F Gb Ab, it’s octatonic. At least that seems like what it was based on how he was describing it and how it sounded
@@ishi_gho9695 You're right, I just added that point because I figured "the secret dom scale is actually bebop harm minor of whatever key you're in" is a a useful point to know first before "the secret dom scale is phryg dom with an added #9 from the perspective of the dominant chord". Just the way my brain works, but both are useful angles on it for sure.
The secret scale is a secret chord Ab7 resolving to Bb7. The first half of the measure is F7 flat9 flat13 bebop scale material, the second half of the measure is the Ab7 chord. We see Dominant chords resolving up a whole step all the time in Jazz. Remembe,r Charlie Parker is considered a formulaic improviser, which means that each half-measure can be analyzed as a completed musical idea.
When I'm listening, I'm just enjoying the variety of sounds. . .I DON'T care where he's "going" melodically. . .I DON'T listen to music to analyze it in that way. As a musician listening in that way I understand, but when I'm just listening for pure enjoyment, I couldn't care less whether he plays a broken 9th starting on a note an octave above or not. Now as a musician, analyzing Bebop is interesting, but as far as actually playing in this style, it just seems ridiculously overwhelming. After watching this I feel like it would take me 2 lifetimes to absorb it all, much less put much of it into practice. So, I'm left feeling that Bebop is interesting to know about, but just beyond me as a player. . .This video depressed me. . .Guess I'll just go back to slow blues.
I always associate this song with the Jaco Pastorius version. In fact, it was Jaco's version in which I first became familiar with the song. Then from there I listened to this version.
Thanks so much! your breakdown of the tune really helped to correct a few errors on my part. I think I learned the tune about 40 yrs ago using a poor transcription as opposed to using a combination of aural and visual. your session has enlightened quite a bit. Thanks again for sharing. By the way in measure 13 I hear an Ab for the second A but the notation shows an A natural.. Would that be a Typo??
Have a suggestion for a tune you'd like me to break down? Let me know - Adam
Time Remembered - Bill Evans
Hardest bestest jazz songs. Old rare stuff. The hardest to appreciate jazz. U know it gets better people stop listening I want to know the best. So i can show my son the top of the jazz mountain.
Stablemates please!
Bird was a genius period.
Bill Evans Very Early
Been working on Donna Lee for years. It’s become my life’s work because I’m a slow learner. Still love it.
"Everything we need is already right here in front of us. It always has been. It was left to us by the masters. All we have to do is investigate". Hats off to u bro'. Investigation: 9/10ths of creativity...♨️
yeah, it's right there on the instrument. funny how right after saying that inspiring statement he's like, here's all this other shit you need
I’ve been playing Donna Lee since the late ‘80s and can say that this is a very generous lesson. A really great player gave me a similar tip back then and I took it to heart. Actually, all of Bird’s tunes are goldmines - not just Donna Lee - but it is one of the bestest! Cheers
While Donna Lee is great for bebop and swing styles, there are many great pieces that teach us so much. The key, as you said, is internalizing the music. Memorize it, try and understand it, break it down into pieces, sing it, play it in different styles, tempos, and instruments. Also, intangibles like mood and emotion.. Think of yourself as an actor... What story, stories, is the piece trying to tell. Sometimes it takes years, even after learning the notes perfectly. Rhythm and what is idiomatic to your instrument. Personally I am a big fan of classical pieces. (Bach) for what they can teach us, although they are a bit difficult to decipher. Just learning a few of Bach's composition has been very helpful over the years.
Early Classical? Where are the major 7 chords necessary in jazz?
@@ejtonefan for example, in Bach, bar 5 of the second cello suite prelude; or bar 8 of the first piano prelude in C major. Just in response to your question.
(Your implication, that major 7th chords were not the most common statement of a tonal center in the 1700s, is of course correct-just that the numerous examples show that Bach and others had that sound in their language.)
There is sooooooo much Bach in Bird!!!!
@@gabrielbotsford791 I THOUGHT it tasted funny!!
Superb pedagogic style. I’ve taken so much from this.
This is truly one of the songs of all time.
Always used to say that the head to DL was like a three year jazz theory course. Still incorporating ideas from DL. Thanks for exploring this.
GREAT BREAKDOWN!! you are right. The masters left it ALL. It is such a wonderful gift to have you break it all down slowly. Also - you might want to point out that a tune like Donna Lee has a 'fundamental Inner Tune" --- at least this is how I hear it. When you hear the inner tune - which is actually not a complicated tune, then you can hear how the 'twists and turns' that Charlie articulates - Miuch like Shakespeare, explaining in poetry what he just said in prose, act as a 'super articulation of the inner melody. Yet essentially the inner melody is the fundamental key to the whole song. So BIRD, writes a tune while simultaneously taking us all around the block into a deeper understanding of the tune -- a BEBOP musical journey. (all this before he even solos !!!) Do you have a class that talks about this inner tune thing?
There are many that believe Miles wrote this, including Miles. Having played these tunes for many years, it seems to me that there is some language that is not typical of Bird, although his vocab was huge. In fact the chromatics in the first lick sound more like Miles than Bird.
It's based on Ice Freezes Red , trumpet solo. The melody is based 80% on Fat Girl's solo. Miles wrote Donna Lee based on Fats crib. Miles could Not play this!! Each take is slower and slower until he does ok. Listen to Fats play Donna Lee live Metro nome All Stars broadcast. Fats is King of long phrases. Played a lot with Maggie.
@@davidjordan5175 Wow! Thanks for the tip. Seems right to me.
@@ebjazz Not so fast. Check out "Tiny's Con," written by drummer/composer/arranger Tiny Kahn, and recorded by clarinetist Aaron Sachs in June 1946, almost a year before Bird recorded "Donna Lee." There's a definite similarity between the two tunes. ruclips.net/video/fayt31lQiDI/видео.html
I agree with you. Parker's writing is more about rhythm surprises than long linear phrases.
@@davidjordan5175 Also search out 'Tiny's Con' recorded on June 8, 1946 by Aaron Sachs And The Manor Re Bops (Aaron Sachs, clarinet; Terry Gibbs, vibes; Gene DiNovi, piano; Clyde Lombardi, bass; Tiny Kahn, drums).
Although your lessons are way above my level of ability at present, the content and the way you explain it helps to strengthen my musical understanding and inspires me to push on. Thank you!
Hi Adam - just want to give you a big shout out for these lessons - recent find on my part and I play guitar and can still consume these and they are great! and the enthusiasm is equally enjoyable - keep on! and Thank you.
You can see this scale as the 3rd mode of “Barry Harris diminished scale”, so for a C7, a Ab major with its added b13
Great find!!
Yes. Also very close to the C Phrygian Flat 4 (3rd mode of Ab Harmonic Major); George Russell would relate that to the Db Lydian Diminished (Db Melodic Minor + 4). Same notes, Only difference is that theses scales do not contain the note F; whereas the Barry Harris Ab Major 6th Diminished scale does. Not surprisingly, F i s the tonic target it resolves to in the case of the C7--->F. Really cool stuff.
Thank you Florent!! Now I can wrap my head around this “secret scale!”
I believe this scale was created for this reason, to integrate the III7
Dude came straight from the skate park to cut this vid. Not even mad at that
I love that this happens to sit in a pretty good place for my singing voice, scatting it is a lot of fun. It's a great sight reading exercise as well.
This is in depth teaching! Thank you Adam!
I think much more in terms of triads and arpeggios (and whatever passing or chromatic tones between them), but I must admit it is easier for me to target the "secret dom7 scale" tones by playing off a "blues scale" built on the 7th degree of the current Dom 7.
F7 - play Eb blues scale gives you the 7th, root, b9, #9, 3rd, 4/11, 5th, b13 of that F7.
I remember as a young pianist I once played that “secret dominant scale” and thought I invented it lol. Then I heard bird on this exact recording and felt really bad for the next few weeks
Youghta felt great friend
@@bremlquan DIG MY BROTHER 💕💯
barry harris chuckles...😅😅
HEY DUDE !!! i agree with the first guy - celebrate your inner connection to the masters!
I got an ad for alcohol and it had a really nice beat right after you said lets listen to it I was like I wonder where he is going with this not what I expected. So funny.
The “secret dominant scale” is the Db major bebop scale. Db6=Bbmin. You’re doing Ab7/F7 -> Db6/Bb (which resolves to Bb13 in this case).
Love this channel. As a bassist, and now playing guitar, this is a little outside my ability, but I get most of it and it’s very educational
@ Sean Cushnie: If you're anything like I was years ago - and I am a bassist & guitarist, too, who started on bass just as you have - learning Charlie Parker tunes on guitar will challenge you to think about bebop and jazz differently, and the nature of how to play guitar differently. 'Bird tunes don't lay naturally on guitar in standard tuning, for the most part, at least that's my take on it - so you have to learn ways of finessing that. And since many of his tunes move out at pretty quick tempos, you'll have to learn that, too, at least if you want to play the head (melody) like he did. And then there's the solos....
Bottom line is that modern jazz is not a form of music centered around guitar; if anything it is centered around horns and horn players. So as I see it, the challenge is to make your guitar playing more horn-like.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 thank you for your inspiring reply. I will dig in deeper
@@seancushnie974 - Years ago, when jazz guitar great Wes Montgomery was asked about his practice habits, he humorously-quipped "I just open up the guitar case every once in a while and throw in a piece of meat!" and he was totally correct! The guitar is a total beast, a real monster to be tamed, and you have to be willing to pay the price to do it. If you want to play jazz at a high level on the instrument, you have to be damned near a virtuoso. I didn't say that; I think Mark Whitfield did or maybe Bobby Broom. In other words, hang tough.
I've yet (years later still) to finish getting Donna Lee under my piano fingers fully. This just motivated my weekend plans.
I still remember the sense of personal victory I felt when I first really played the melody of that tune. Jaco's take inspired me years before, and even after getting it down in a preliminary sense, it is endlessly instructive :)
@@davepuxley7387 agreed because then go and learn it in all 12 keys. There is tremendous learning when practicing in other keys for one song.
@@justin.johnson still working on that! I totally agree
Psst.. Don't tell anyone, the secret dominant scale is just the major bepop scale starting from the third degree. So if you play C maior/diminished, everthing is already embedded: C6 vs G7b9, Am7 vs E7b9. But please don't tell anyone🤫
My lips are sealed buddy
Bepop, berock, bemetal 🤭
I don't understand, explain please
Thank you, Sir! I have only listened to 5:05 minutes of your video thus far. I have been playing "at" Donna Lee since college and the Bb harmonic scale since High School. I have never thought of playing the over the F7 chord. I had to stop the video and sit down at my piano in my studio and try it out. I will definitely watch the remainder of your video. Cheers, ap
I agree with you. All sorts of scales, lines chromatic neighbors. Lately I've been learning in all twelve keys, which has really opened up some fingering puzzles for me to figure out and get smooth in all keys. On tenor g flat concert is taking some time. I'll get it. Playing the lines forward and backward helps too.
Such a valuable lesson! I learned so much as a listener (don't play the sax).
I am so under the average player enthusiast its beyond ridiculous; thats my disclaimer. I like this because it shows an argument to what i've heard about modern music (classical and jazz in general) being "dissonant" and sort of un or non-resolved patterns that philosophically / spiritually lead to, &/or come from, chaos. This proves there really is beauty and form in the genre.
so Niice..an intelligent comment section and, great session/lesson/analysis/presentation ! thank you
This is so useful - thank you. Please 'complete' the set and do similar for diminished and chromatics! Thanks again!
I just had to learn this song for our jazz band “final” at school this past semester! So. Many. Notes.
The Secret Dominant Scale appears to be the 5th mode of the Bebop Harmonic Minor Scale. Bebop Harmonic Minor = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-7 & the 5th mode of Bebop Harmonic = 1-b2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7. Though modes of Bebop scales aren't usually talked about much from what I've seen anyway.
Cool I was waiting for you guys to post this session I've been looking for it
You didn't have to do the *whole thing* again, but we appreciate it!
This melody is perfect for sight reading and learning to read. Thanks so much for this tutorial!
My two music buddies challenged me to learn this. So I’m off to the woodshed! Great work!
Thank you for this!
I spend a lot of years playing sitar. Much to the chagrin of my traditionalist acquaintances, I often experimented with non-raga based music. I used the head for Donna Lee as an exercise on sitar. It was,,, well,,, you get the idea! LOL!
You have inspired me to work on the piece again!
Dude you are awesome! Thx So much!
One of the best lessons that I’ve ever 😮
Melody from scales,that's my eternal journey!
"CONFIRMATION" - the perfect Charlie Parker tune......
Fair enough, that WAS a great lesson; subscribed !
I’ve played preformed Donna Lee more than any other jazz song. I learned the head in 2 octaves. The upper octave was figured out by me and Sid Jacobs at MI. We used economy picking and were able to play it at blistering speeds.
I love this channel. Thank you Adam.
Gracias!
Music is mainly a sequence of harmony with melody. All you need is melody as there are many backtrack handouts there for you to practice and use. Melody could be complex but a drone helps a lot to understand dissonance or ornamentations
What’s a drone. Single chord?
Great lesson man! I'm saxophonist and will be amazing exercise! Donna Lee always is! Thank you!
I’m back home again in Indiana! Russel Webster here always said remember the melody- one can start there
My pops was raised in Detroit, played trumpet, and was a young bebop kid before hard bop revolution era and frequently played with Charles McPherson when they both lived in NYC during that '70s period and I used to go with my pops quite frequently to his gigs, the majority of which were clubs down in the West Village and to my recollection I never heard them play Donna Lee. Now, when my father co-lead a quintet with Charlie Rouse, I heard them play Donna Lee once and that was during the early mid '80s in Sweet Basil's. Of course it was required learning because Bird's music (and/or Miles with Bird) was required learning and performing for those cats in the mid 1950s, but it wasn't a tune that I ever heard performed live to my memory, but I was between 5 and 16 years old, so maybe they did play it when I wasn't there. When Jaco Pastorius' debut album came out, his version reignited interest in Donna Lee. I'm thinking one of the reason why that tune wasn't performed that often was because it was originally in Ab and maybe that key was not favored a lot bebop purist cats since blues and other bebop tunes or adaptations of standards tunes were played in F, Bb, C, maybe (?) and for me, Ab was a real pain in the butt to walk over when I was learning. But, I think this video is a really good idea and I'm going to check it out because one can always learn, as I am not a jazz player.
You are my favorite teacher on piano right now, dude. This was super awesome
A favorite teacher of mine as well and I play guitar and trombone.
Bar 15 - a Honey Suckle Rose quote. 🎶
There's that one chromatic part that makes me think of the Conan Show theme. Love it!
Charlie Parker was a big fan of the Conan theme song.
Just a note: although Donna Lee has been traditionally credited to Bird, it seemingly was actually written by Miles (named after a woman bass player who was on the scene at the time). This makes a lot of sense to me in terms of Miles in that period being a serious student of the music, studying classical scores at Julliard in the day and playing with Bird at night, trying to decode that language. My theory is that Miles wrote it in exactly the spirit of what you're talking about, as a kind of bebop etude.
I'm a saxophone player. But I played trumpet a little so I could teach some students. I played Donna Lee on trumpet, and anyone who ever plays this head on the trumpet would tell you that it lays under 'trumpet' fingers very naturally. Not to mention that I lived next door to max Roach in the 80's, and he corroborated this fact.
Learned Guthrie govans version ten years ago, still know it, and still had trouble analyzing the theory. This video made it a lot easier. Thanks!
Extremely lucid lesson. You are amazing! Thank you!!!
The scale in bar 31. 3 flat 9 1 7 going in sequence is magic. I played that scale a million times over 30 years but never understood it. Until one day I was studying D. Lee and boom, there it was.
My take on the "secret scale": bottom tetrachord is the altered dominate; top is a minor tetrachord with 11 and 5, not whole-tone like altered dominate including a b5. Just goes to show that like Joe Abercrombie humorously quipped "the chromatic scale fits every dominate chord".
I love the A natural that you pointed out in the other video about the Real Book. You're right, it's SO much better this way.
The key to playing mode V of Bb harm. min over the F7 in measure 2 is making sure that the note "Bb" resolves logically to the "A" (as, of course, Parker does in the head.)
I love this. I grew up on Lee Konitz/Lennie Tristano/Warne Marsh. As much as I love their extrapolation on Pres, Roy Eldridge, Fats, Bud, Bird, I feel Lennie never got fully on top of bebop (he had his views). Lennie had his one remarkable melodic thing going. But your video has helped me.
hey great job thanks alot
you are such great teacher. thanks
great lesson
Miles Davis actually definitely wrote “Donna Lee” @OpenStudio (compare it his other tunes of the time like “Sippin’ At Bells”- very similar, it is like a bebop ‘étude’. It was also highly influenced by Fats Navarro’s solo on the tune “Ice Freezes Red”)
Agree. The numbers on the famous Miles-led Savoy session (all formally credited to him) have a straight-ahead quality of simply blowing through the changes in an extremely creative harmonic way (for example, Half Nelson/Lady Bird which is a materpiece by any standard). Bird's Savoy compositions are far more melodic and (for the most part) involve the most distinctive and memorable phrasing units that one can recall after a single hearing (e.g. Billie's Bounce, Now's The Time, Parker's Mood). Only the most talented ears can recall the "melody" of Donna Lee after a single listen.
Yes, Miles wrote it. Even Parker confirmed that. When Gil Evans approached him to ask for a lead sheet because he wanted to arrange it for Claude Thornhill’s orchestra, Parker told him “go ask Miles, it’s his tune”. And that’s how Miles and Evans met. Miles said yes, on the condition Evans would share with him his score for his “Robin’s Nest” arrangement for Thornhill’s orchestra.
Ok. Great work and I appreciate the work it takes to do these vids.
That said,
I retract the previous post. You are right about what was played on that recording. However it's not what is played by most players and the books have a different transcription.
Some differences:
Bar 6, note 6 is a G nat, not an E nat. The chord becomes an Eb7+5 resolving to an Ab major. It's a bebop thing for sure and heightens the tension. Again in bar 8 notes 5 (Enat) & 6 (C) make that an Ab7+5. The choice of chords in the head would be up to the pianist and bassist. My guess is the RS was told it's on the changes of "Indiana" so that would be what they played.
Bar 16, 4th note's an Eb.
Bar 21, 4th note is an A natural in this recording but many such as Clifford Brown play an Ab . The C7 is setting up F minor, the key of the section to come.
I have never seen a chart that has any of those above notes in it. I wonder why. Also if this is the first reading of the tune Bird and or Miles may have changed it in later recordings or shows taped by bootleggers or radio.
The tune is a line (or contra-fact for any academics out there) on (Back Home Again in) Indiana. The F minor section, bars 21-27 is completely F minor in both tunes and is played that way by dyed in the wool beboppers. Also no one know for sure whether Bird or Miles wrote it. Maybe even Dizzy.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks.
Here's me desperately trying to get the altered dominant scale under my belt and then you go and throw in the secret dominant! Anything goes!!
You wanna know how to play melodic on this tune? Learn an old tune called (Back Home Again In) INDIANA. The chords are EASY. Play on that first before you do the Donna Lee version, which is the Indiana chords but with Parker's melody and played twice as fast. See....people get hung up on Donna Lee because they think THE MELODY is THE TUNE...which it is. But the problem is folks think the chord changes are harder than what they really are (THEY'RE NOT!) and they gotta play licks like Charlie Parker (you don't need to do that). The end result is folks playing this like Charlie Parker or some like some uber be-bop dude and EVERYONE ENDS UP SOUNDING THE SAME. It's like folks are on a mission to outdo Charlie Parker every time they play. It's stupid.
Wanna learn how to play on this tune? Learn to play Indiana and then you won't ever have to deal with with Bird's version ever. The hardest thing about Donna Lee IS THE MELODY. That's all. If you learn the melody and learn how to play it FAST (there are tricks on how to make that work), then you will be 'legit' in some circles (which is a load of crap, btw...).
Otherwise, enjoy the easy like baby food changes on an old pop tune like Indiana. Do this and you won't be stigmatized like the rest of us on this stupid Donna Lee song.
Keep up the good work, guys.
Not the first time I've heard this opinion. It's definitely a known opinion, but has some valid points.
I kinda hear it - ruclips.net/video/7wcgaRkHAWY/видео.html
Thanks master !
love how he said “you’ve got it” when i clearly don’t got it lol… all jokes aside great breakdown
Remember that Miles wrote "Donna Lee"- cut the fella some slack, Jack.
In neoclassical metal we call the secret dom scale (mixed Phrygian) or mixed minor over the i chord
Great transcription. Obviously the melody is more accurate than in 6th edition fake book!
Donna Lee was written by Miles Davis,the record company Savoy Records assumed that was written by Bird cause the rest of the compositions had been written by him
This is amazing
If you're asking "what scale I should play over what chord change" then you're already in the wrong place to start a path to improvisation like Bird. It's the difference between looking at music like a puzzle to be solved or viewing it as a feeling to be expressed with the melody as your anchor. You can always tell the musicians who do the latter because they never sound like themselves they always sound like stale technical copies.
Exactly. This is the mindset that bothers me, and of course, for early jazz students, it is a valid question as a starting point. But I think the goal over time is to transcend this idea that there is ONE valid scale that goes with each chord. Or even the premise that it's all scales that go with chords. Music is a much more complex system and there can be any infinite number of scales or notes that can go with the same chord, depending on what one wants to do with it.
For example, in his autobiography, Miles mentions that he once told Bird "You can't play anything over any chord. Like, you can't play an E Maj scale over Bb" and Bird said "Sure you can". So Bird himself didn't believe in this idea of "What's the right scale to go with this chord"?
Not to say this isn't a great video for young jazz students, and specifically, students who want to learn the bebop language. But as one gets more experienced, one wants to get away from the mentality that there's a correct scale that goes with a chord.
After a few decades as a musician I’ve come to approach jazz improv as the art of connecting two chords with a valid musical phrase. So rather than start with scale x over chord A, then switch to scale y over chord B, I will try to create a phrase which starts on chord A and connects to chord B. This is not difficult to do and was a big ear opener for me, and allowed me to relax and wait for the sound to guide my melodies.
Do you not think Charlie Parker mastered his scales and arpeggios before he could improvise like that? By all accounts, Parker was a very smart dude and I guarantee he possessed a deep theoretical understanding of what he was playing. Now, I agree with you that knowing what scales and chord tones to play alone won't get you to improvise like Bird (if anything will) but I think it's misleading to suggest that it isn't part of the process.
@@a.m.son222 Yes, which was my point: At the beginning this is how we think about music. But after that, we must learn to transcend this binary notion that "There is ONE scale for each chord". And this is not me saying it. Other musicians like Miles, Herbie and Mingus were constantly making this same point. But of course, you begin by playing only chord tones, and then playing "the scale that goes with the chord", when you're a beginner.
@@rontomkins6727 The comment I was replying to said “if you’re asking which scale should I play over what chord change then you’re already in the wrong place to start a path to improvisation like bird”. “Start a path to improvisation” is pretty clearly talking about a musician at the beginning of their journey.
I feel like Charlie Parker was thinking more diminished then harmonic minor
Definitely. It’s an F7 with leading tones to each chord tone, (except for the Bb, which I might play as B natural ), giving you a pure diminished or octatonic scale.
Great stuff. Now part 2 would be the left hand comping... That would be awesome. PLease! ;-)
I see the F secret dominant scale as Eb blues scale with an F major chord folded into it.
Your secret dominant scale seems to be a mix of Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant (depending on the tonality of the 3rd)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop_scale#Bebop_harmonic_minor_scale
It's not easy to learn. I got the tab online and it is really good. I'm glad I found it.👍
So you want a priceless lesson for free?
Welcome.
🇨🇦
On the 13th measure over a Bb7 if the 6th note isn't an Ab then the line ceases to be functional. You just can't keep hammering on the Major 7 over a dominant chord. Anyway by measure 14 I've changed that 13th chord to a Bbalt7 so Dimwt scale in 14. Works for me.
GREAT GREAT GR..
I have learned so much as a harpist from you. My playing is better. Thank you for adding a mark in the jazz harp world ❤️
"The jazz harp world" There are dozens of us! Dozens!
"Wink wink" hahahahahahaha! that was great. nudge nudge, say no more say no more.
Adam: You don't have to play it up to speed on your first day.
Me: Can you give me two years?
I have learned this on both guitar and upright bass and don't have either up to speed, but I guess it's time to work on this again. Great lesson, Adam!
So I have revisited this since 8 months ago. I got it going from memory on the guitar. This gem and a few others caused me injury on the upright bass. Have been diagnosed with carpal tunnel in my left forearm. Not wanting to get surgery, so the bass has not been out of the case for almost a year. Can play at half speed on the guitar. Going to try to improve that.
@@richardsorice4509 il
It’s funny because most jazz guys just seem to know that there’s something different and special about “Donna Lee.” I’m glad someone’s here to explain the nitty gritty of it.
I think the ‘secret F7 scale’ is actually the dorian b2 mode of eb melodic minor. Fwiw.
100%- it’s all about melodic minor modes
No, the secret dominant scale I believe has both an added major 3rd and a flat 6 as opposed to the dorian natural 6 of the Dorian b2 scale, so it’s octatonic
The "secret dominant scale" is a Bebop Harmonic Minor scale or sometimes just Bebop Minor, and is octatonic. 1 2 ♭3 4 5 ♭6 ♭7 7
You could think of it as "harmonic minor with an added ♭7", or "natural minor with an added M7".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop_scale#Bebop_harmonic_minor_scale
„Back Home in Indiana“ - Who would have imagined that this tune could be transformed this way. Awesome.
indeed from dixie swinging to hop grooving. never know where the song will take you. gotta love jazz.
Did you think no one would click on your video if you put “Donna Lee” in the title?
Thanks! Love the name you gave to that scale - "secret dominant". I've been playing and teaching that scale for years as one of the best things to play over a dominant of a minor chord, but have been surprised that no one mentions it in any jazz theory book. I finally found it in Dan Greenblatt's excellent "Minor is Major" (he calls it "Harmonic Bebop"). I love how it has the same notes as the relative major's "major bebop scale" (or Barry Harris's dim 6th scale).
Apparently it's listed in Mark Levine's The Drop 2 Book: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop_scale#Bebop_harmonic_minor_scale
I always called it an “octatonic harmonic minor”, because of an addition of major 6th. So, the scale of octatonic Bb harmonic minor would actually have (in notation) both 6ths :minor 6 Gb, and major 6 G#. That directly results in F7(#9) dominant, with G# being that sharp 9 in F7. That’s how Miles Davis treated it, so did Oscar Peterson, John Coltrane etc.
Major Bebop scale is identical. It also has both 6ths : minor 6 and major 6. So, it also is an octatonic scale.
this secret harmonic scale is just the bebop scale of Ab major… indoibt charlie parker thought about it like this. he is basically shifting the chord changes. he onlynactually lands om the F7 at the 3rd tempo of the bar. so on the A basically. sonhe is using a bebop scale of Ab going down until the 3rd of A. Its much easier to undestand like this
ok i think its not so simple as i said
Very fluid teacher. Sub’d ya because of ya style and channel content bro. Bring it!
The Secret Dominant Scale is like combining harmonic and natural minor. Your/Bird's extra note, #9 of the dominant, is b7 of the parent scale, giving it both min and Maj 7. I'm sure you know this already. I just mention it, if it might help some folks plug it into their fingerings.
great video 💜
Fellas, I believe when he refers to the “secret dominant scale, I believe what he’s describing is a phrygian dominant (5th mode of harm minor) with an ADDED #9, on Bb that would be Bb Cb C# D Eb F Gb Ab, it’s octatonic. At least that seems like what it was based on how he was describing it and how it sounded
It's a bebop harmonic minor scale en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop_scale#Bebop_harmonic_minor_scale
@@75kpos right, so it contains the phryg. dom. +#9 scale as a mode
@@ishi_gho9695 You're right, I just added that point because I figured "the secret dom scale is actually bebop harm minor of whatever key you're in" is a a useful point to know first before "the secret dom scale is phryg dom with an added #9 from the perspective of the dominant chord". Just the way my brain works, but both are useful angles on it for sure.
The secret scale is a secret chord Ab7 resolving to Bb7. The first half of the measure is F7 flat9 flat13 bebop scale material, the second half of the measure is the Ab7 chord. We see Dominant chords resolving up a whole step all the time in Jazz. Remembe,r Charlie Parker is considered a formulaic improviser, which means that each half-measure can be analyzed as a completed musical idea.
When I'm listening, I'm just enjoying the variety of sounds. . .I DON'T care where he's "going" melodically. . .I DON'T listen to music to analyze it in that way. As a musician listening in that way I understand, but when I'm just listening for pure enjoyment, I couldn't care less whether he plays a broken 9th starting on a note an octave above or not. Now as a musician, analyzing Bebop is interesting, but as far as actually playing in this style, it just seems ridiculously overwhelming. After watching this I feel like it would take me 2 lifetimes to absorb it all, much less put much of it into practice. So, I'm left feeling that Bebop is interesting to know about, but just beyond me as a player. . .This video depressed me. . .Guess I'll just go back to slow blues.
I always associate this song with the Jaco Pastorius version. In fact, it was Jaco's version in which I first became familiar with the song. Then from there I listened to this version.
Very useful!
F Phrygian Dominant bebop scale )
Thanks so much! your breakdown of the tune really helped to correct a few errors on my part. I think I learned the tune about 40 yrs ago using a poor transcription as opposed to using a combination of aural and visual. your session has enlightened quite a bit. Thanks again for sharing. By the way in measure 13 I hear an Ab for the second A but the notation shows an A natural.. Would that be a Typo??