Why my wheel locks up when pushing it forward.
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Thanks for watching. I finally figured out why this Toro mower was given away, and it's a huge problem.
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I would try pulling the pully off the transmission and shim the pully making the small beveled gear sit lower and hopefully it eould make better contact if not you may also be able to shim the shaft that turns the gears making it push the shaft gear into the pully gear , washers as shims may work but it's time consuming, cost wouldn't be that much but it's the time to take everything apart including pulling the drive shaft out and seeing if shiming would fix it so that is up to you if you thought it was worth or time or not
I've tried that before and I might work but depending on wear, it might be too late.
I would check to make sure the deck height adjusters are set to the right height on all wheels.
that's a good idea
I love this mower
it's not bad, I just wish the Engine was in better shape.
Would be interesting to see a transmission repair or replacement👍
it would be. thank you Ludvig Tande.
No, I've gone into some of those transmission. They are a pain in the but to get out and put back in, the transmission consists of 4 gears, I have found that they use gear grease which dries up, so when I put them back together, I use gear oil, rather than grease.
@@donaldbower4097 hi
the sad part is it would cost more to repair correctly than it is worth. it is a machine that is better off to just be used as is. maybe save the wheels and toss some regular wheels on. it is missing the dust shields for the wheels anyways so even if you fix the transmission there is a good chance the dirt getting into the wheels will likely cause accelerated wear on the gears in the wheel.
you are exactly right, unless I can repair this for cheap, it might just be left as a push mower instead.
I know this is an older vid but I am still catching up to your fine work. I have been using "00" grease aka Cotton Pickers grease. Tractor Supply sell a quart for a mere $5 but it is available online also albeit for more $. It is thinner than the type of automotive grease that you encountered yet it is thick enough to lube really well. Its advantage is that it doesn't get thrown off to the sides off the housing like thicker grease. Been doing this for several years on my Toros & when I check the case periodically, the gears remain covered in grease. I fill the case to about 3/4 full. Alas, only the older Toro transmissions are serviceable this way. Newer models use a General brand tranny and are very difficult to separate. If anyone has had luck doing so, I would like to know what you did.
I'll have to look into that, sounds like It just what I need. thank you jj parody
Save it for parts from time to time one might show up or a customer may show up and can use this one 👍
Good idea! thank you Efrain Vazquez.
There is supposed to be a inner hub cap and a rubber inner hub cap washer on both the front wheels.
you're the first person to mention that!
Go ahead if you can find a used transmission because they come as a whole assembly therefore no parts are available for them except for the ratchet gears.
The cheapest price I've seen them go for is $48 USD on eBay for a new transmission !
Damn I didn't see that one, I got one a little more than that.
I would take the belt off and use it as a push mower. It’s still a good push mower.
yes you are absolutely right about that. Thank you William Snow.
The shields are missing. They go on before gear someone had it apart
If you look at spring ect look like assemble with silver antisieze
you might be right
Some one was in there. Shields missing they go on before gear
yep you're right
Go for the gold.
hm.. that's going to take some silver.. I'll look into it.
Try looking for a used transmission or used gears on ebay? Kinda hit or miss when it comes to transmissions for push mowers.
that's a good idea. Thank you vintage fixer
What type/weight oil does Honda use in THEIR trannies? Should we be changing it? If so, when? Thanks👍
it depends on which type of transmission you're asking about. If I recall, most times it was just regular motor oil, but other times it was a heavy grease.
Now I have a question, are smaller engines tour specialty, or are you also good at working on cars, or do you just like to work on the small equipment, i like these videos a lot, but have you ever tried working on a car?
Yes I'm very good at cars too, I had a shop for awhile but my partner made that disappear. I'm an old school car tuner and performance wrench. Small engines was a compromise. This is good enough that I'm going address this in a future Q&A. thanks Alexander Costa.
Ebay has used parts be careful its a match
you are absolutely right about that.
Toro always was junk for me so got a Honda and never had a problem again
thank you Noah Leszcynski, my personal mower is a honda as well.
Since the mower is in good condition I'd fix it so it would be the way it was when it came out of the box
that's a good idea.
Your sockets did you get them colored or did you do it and if you got them like that were did you buy them
they were already colored that way. I've had them for almost a decade and the color is coming off.
How old this mower
it appears to be 23 years old.
You going to sell this mower
no I'm not
i think you should take out the whole transmission and drive and leave it as a push mower
that you definitely make things easier.
Hondas not cool mowers
I should have figured that out.
List it for $60 and let it go.
that would be the smart thing to do.
I find it amazing how many of these mowers are still in service . I know a fair amount of people who still use them. I guess that oil pump really does make this engine last longer
as long as there's just enough oil in it, yes the pump does that top bearing a lot of good.
Check underneath the mower ( of course with the engine off ) for debris
that makes sense.
Thank you so much for your videos. I am 13 years old and just fixed my first trimmer. You are an inspiration to me and my friends.
That is awesome! And thank you.
I would leave it alone and use it as a push mower. Great video and content. 🙏👍🙏👍🙏👍🙏👍
Thank you RayFpv!
I own a toro and the front wheels get stuck, would be nice to see a transmission fix.
I might have to clean and inspect the transmission In the next video..
as usual I vote for parts (if engine is good you can use it on a different machine) but it be fun to see for youtube if you can repair or replace the transmission?
Oh I can replace it, that's not going to be a real problem, the repair of the old one will be tough. The parts cost is higher, than a whole new transmission for some reason.
@@HomeGaragechannel true but what if you use gears from something else? if it is cheap enough to go thru the trouble of replacing it. Like that saying if it is stupid but works then it is not stupid. Maybe you can get gears from a different parts mower and hammer them to fit lol
How about using the parts from a different parts mower you might have laying around? almost like an engine swap but transmission swap instead?
no need to find something that might fit. There are replacement gears available
Now that might be a possibility if the dimension are roughly the same.
The gearbox failure is usually caused by the two bronze output shaft bushings, they’re about 2 bucks each. When the bronze shaft bushings become worn and elliptical shaped the drive shaft moves down and increases the clearance between the ring gear and the input gear. Not a big deal IF it hasn’t been used like that for too long. If the previous owner kept trying to use it like that however then the ring gear teeth will have flat spots formed in them and that’s the end of that. Sometimes the input gear bearing becomes worn too, that’s like 5 bucks or so. This mower has a ton of hours on it and the engine sounds pretty worn too, not sure if I’d put the $ into it at this point. Maybe you’ll find a good donor someday with a rotted or cracked deck, there’s a ton of them out there. That’s funny about the backwards drive gear, I used to see that a lot on these drives (Honda too). BTW you can convert a rear wheel drive gearbox to a front drive gearbox for this mower by driving out the drift pin holding the ring gear in place, sliding the ring gear off the shaft and reversing it then driving the drift pin back into the other hole provided. Now the ring gear will ride on the other side of the input gear and it’s a FWD.
I hadn't though about the bushing. I'll look into but the other issue is that the beveled ring gear has some teeth that are severely worn. This one might need everything replaced.
Differential gears's meshing can be adjusted with shims of varying thicknesses. Likewise, maybe a cheap solution for this mower would be to open the transmission and see if you can add shims between the small bevel gear and the bushing/bearing on top of the transmission. New grease would be welcome too.
Yes sir, I'm already looking into the shims. thank you Claude Hebert.
@@HomeGaragechannel did shims work ?
take the gear out. weld it then grind it. will work but take a lot of time and work.
so you want me to weld back on the missing material?
@@HomeGaragechannel you can add metal using stick welder.
I know what I would have done I want to know what you did
I'm pretty sure the video explained it.
Ha ha, I haven’t watched the whole video yet but I sure know what causes that wheel lockup! People always put the gear in backwards lol!
You got it!
I' d rather spend my money on a normal mower... Less headaches....
That makes sense. thank you Samuel Velez
I live in NJ I get snow here I have 10 snow blowers work on
now that's a lot of snow blowers
Sometims you can install a washer behind the gear and tighten it up to engage. Might last for quite a while. Mayby look for another with a blown motor and get the trans out of it. Great job and many thanks.
you are absolutely right
Shimming should help it. You might be able to cut some out of sheet metal with a slot to fit the shaft and slip them in behind the washer on the gear without disassembling the gearbox. If cut to the right shape, the gearbox cover will hold them in place so they don't turn.
I'm certain that shimming the gears to get better contact, but with the damage to the teeth, I don't think it's going to help. You'll see the damage in the next video on it.
Well, if you fix the lawnmower, it will be another nice movie that many can appreciate. You might get some advertising revenue or stand in some other way.
It's always fun to do a proper job without cheating.
My opinion.
that makes sense
Why we don’t have many mowers like that in the uk we just push them and there fine 😂
you know what they say about Americans.
@@HomeGaragechannel yes
Fix it so you can make another video.
that's the plan
I have worked on so many of those now, I could fix them in my sleep. That and the Honda HHR216. Replacing the transmission is a drag on any of them. Usually on the Toro, it is the spring that eather breaks or gets stuck from eather crud or rust to the point they prevent the gear from working properly. People grease them and honestly, that just makes things worse. A dry lube is the best bet on the drive gears and spring that retains the half moon key in the drive shaft. If someone takes it apart, they usually put the drive gear in backwards. They have an L and a R on them so you can put them in properly. If you cannot pull the mower backwards, the gear is in wrong.
I like that idea of using dry lube,
you want to buy one
I’m guessing the front wheels were replaced not too long ago. They are in too good a shape to be as old as the mower is.
I don’t think the individual trans parts are available. Too bad.
I know right, it didn't make sense to me either.
Seeing as how common the FWD mowers seem to be there, maybe swapping out a good used transmission and changing the grease in it would be a better use of time.
possibly, we'll see in the next video.
Why you like Hondas Mowers
it has a good quiet engine and the transmission last a long time.
Tag it for sale as a push mower. Remove all extraneous parts, that it doesn't need anymore, to use on other repairs.(pulleys, belt, pinion...)
In the mean time, while it sits in the inventory, look for appropriate used parts that would work as replacements.
The initial work has already been done. You need to get paid for the hours spent. I imagine space is at a premium around a shop, so best for the inventory to be turned over quickly, to accommodate the new mowers coming in. Of course, this vid was posted a year ago, so probably it's likely to have been sold by now.
good advice
I don't like Hondas Mowers
why not?
My Toro mower 10 OR 15 Year old
Nice, take care of it, and it will last.
Since it’s a Toro, I would replace the transmission. It’s a good lawnmower.
yes you are right about that
i know it might not be practical for the expense to fix but would make a good video ...
you are right, at most it would be very enlightening.
I don’t like self-propelled mowers so I would just remove the gears from the gearbox take the belt off for me and just make it a non-propelled push mower
that makes sense. thank you Fred D.
Be easy to find a donor mower with a good tranny that will work u can buy the whole mower if engine is shot for twenty bucks might even get one free for hauling it off.either way be a cheap fix plus u would have other parts if needed
you make a good point Will Cook.
If the engine runs good, go ahead and fix the front drive. After all you said you got it free. 😊
It depends on the cost. If it's too expensive then I'd better be fixing it to use, because selling it could loose me money
You fix snow blowers too
we don't get much snow here, and I only have 1 snow blower to work on.
If you could find a used transmission off of a junk mower or with the condition this one is in and it being free might be worth a new transmission if it doesn't exceed what you can get out of the mower if you sold it
I think you might be right.
I don't like Hondas
why don't you like them?
Check on price of replacement transmission. Or is there a way to shim the gears tighter together to make self propell work again .
this one is also suffering from bushing failure and the transmission is pretty pricey now.
The mower is in great shape so I would try to fix the transmission or take one off a parts mower with a bad engine. I personally like to treat all equipment like it is brand new and you just got it from the store recently because you extend the life of it greatly by treating it like new and replacing parts like you would with a brand new mower. The thing is too, that mower is probably made better than a lot of newer ones with all the plastic parts. I was at Menards recently and the cheap $140 mowers are very disappointing, I would rather put money towards a good quality older one like the one in the video. Maybe more people are realizing too the older stuff is well worth fixing as it is better quality than a cheap new one.
you make a good point. I have parts coming in soon. Thank you C:\ DOS
@@HomeGaragechannel Makes me happy to hear that, I love seeing you fix yard equipment! I love picking up leaf blowers or trimmers for cheap and seeing if I can fix them, although it takes me some time since I am nowhere near as experienced as you are.
me too. Just for some reason I've been getting nothing but mowers lately.
You like Toro mowers
They're pretty good, but I prefer Hondas
do you know what would be causing low compression in an engine? i recently got a mtd push mower and the engine has low compression
sure, most of the time the rings will be worn, and sometime it's in conjunction with cylinder wall wear. The other reason could be leaking valve seats. How did the oil look when you check it?
@@HomeGaragechannel oil looked like how it did when you drained it in this video, except with a more greyish hue
was this your mower then or is It "new" to you? it may have missed some oil changes which would cause the ring wear.
@@HomeGaragechannel ah i see now, yeah this is a "new" mower within my fleet and the ad said all it needed was carb work, which it did need replacing, but before i did that i checked on the compression and saw the low numbers. i appreciate your thoughts on this and ill make sure to replace the rings
@@vg3o_j you can't rely on compression readings when it comes to stuff like lawnmowers or snowblowers. they usually have a compression release to make machines easier to pull start. if it runs good i wouldn't worry about it. if you wanted to get a better idea what shape the rings are in you would need to do a leakdown test which tells you a lot more about the engine.
Would like to see how to get the wheel gears off the front drive tb 200 I have a gear stuck on
use a pair of vice grip pliers to hold the axle, get the correct size Torx, and a long handle ratchet and hope you can break the thread locker. these can be really tough to get off
Looks like the PO took off the dust covers too. I don't recall seeing any drive systems with exposed gears and teeth like that one. Looks like a few more years left on that mower. I had a similar drive issue that worked fine after replacing the lube inside of the gear box. Nice video!
thank you The Lawnmower Lady, yes I took a look at the diagrams for the drive, and I do believe the PO did take them off.
On a little mower like that I would just remove the self propel bits.
that's definitely an option.
Maybe you could shim the transmission gears, to keep them meshed. It's not great but in my mind the alternative is to just rip out the self-propel mechanism and keep it as a regular push mower. Just usually doesn't seem worth it to replace those transmissions in those mowers from what I've seen.
it should work, except theres visible wear on the cone gear, I haven't seen the pinion gear yet, but it can't be any better. So the propel might be hit or miss even shimmed.
@@HomeGaragechannel Well, probably won't take a ton of time, so it's probably worth giving it a shot. If it still doesn't work, that's when I'd just rip it out.
good point
Honda lawn mowers have a real problem with this, especially pulling the backward, as we all have to do. Never had a problem with the engine but it’s self propel function, sucks. I fixed it but I got tired of fixing it because dirt and sand find their way into the wheel hubs. I traded the Honda off and bought a Snapper Ninja mulched. It does not have any self propel problems, like the Honda. He Honda drive mechanism is very similar to the Toro design, with the ratchet gears, spring and key.
Transmission way to expensive! Push mower or parts mower.
that makes sense
Just give it away and tell that person the problem.
that would make sense
Wait there will be another one down the road you use ! Spare !!!
thank you Bill Clement
what grease ARE u suppose to use on the shafts? curious lol
not sure, which grease I'm SUPPOSED to use, just using what I have available.
The Honda uses the same oil as the engine, 10W30, four ounces. I replaced mine several times and sealed up the cover with RTV.
I will buy this mower
No save your money and put it on the curb for the next person
thank you Moses Rodriguez
It’s worth a hundred bucks? Goodness 😬
my guess
I love Murray Mowers too
how many years did you work with engines?
no many, been working with them since 2014 or so, it was cars before that.
Well pull it backwards then.
sure
I had just disassembled my FWD Toro yesterday. The bronze bushings in the transmission are worn out and egg shaped. Got a new transmission ordered from Amazon for $48. My mower starts on first pull every time so I figure it's worth fixing. Love the Toros.
really? it should have been over $100! nice find
Usually the top pulley drive gear shaft that rides down through the aluminum gearbox housing on the transmission wears the aluminum some where the shaft goes through and causes the gears to not align and mesh together as they would when new , eventually the gears get ground off some due to improper tooth engagement resulting in wear and metal shaving particles in the transmission! ! If you find side to side play in the input shaft that is what has happened!! I have removed the input shaft and drilled out the hole to a slightly larger size so I could insert a thick piece of copper tubing that would fit the input shaft diameter but also being mindful that the copper tube must fit the drilled out larger hole also , then lube and your good provided the gears are ok !! Another way to fix it is remove input shaft then clean the hole with brake cleaner then ONLY on the worn side of the hole ( which is always the side facing the engine due to belt tension , put jb weld aluminum weld in the worn side let harden and set up then using the same size drill bit as the input shaft drill the hole out to be circular paying attention to NOT drill out any factory good aluminum on the transmission housing !
thank you Mark Harris.
Love the videos. Didn’t know that these engines have a oil pump built in (learned that from a comment on this video) would seam to make sense to keep the mower as is do too the lack of major/minor rust and a healthy sounding engine. Would be really cool to see a replacement on the transmission from maybe a downer mower but that would be up two you and what your capable off
(not capable of fixing it no no I don’t doubt in your abilities, but capable of storing the mower until i downer is located)
You know I really do like this engine, and even though it's not in perfect shape, it's good enough for some investment. I'll be doing a follow up soon on this one
the ST4 i was recently given, was given to me because the self drive was not working. after removing the wheels and gears I found that the key and springs were rust frozen in the down position. I removed them both, buffed them clean, cleaned the seat and reinstalled. everything works amazingly now. sorry about the transmission issues.
nice work and thanks.
So in this case, I would hold on to it until I find a good mower deck with self propel and a blown engine and then just swap the engine or. Find a parts mower with good self propel and just rob parts off of it. Running a small engine repair shop my self I try to avoid using new parts unless they are totally necessary like belts, blades, spark plugs etc
You are absolutely right about that. thanks Cole Steffens.
IF it were mine and I was going to use it HERE I'd find a tranny for it or see if I could shim the pinion gear a little closer to the ring gear and fill it up with 00 grease. The Re-store Snapper rear end was full of leaves and the fill plug was gone. I cleaned it up and greased it but it'd hang and have to be pushed forward every time it was stopped. Pinion gear and bearings were shot so I got a pinion gear and bearings and it's been fine ever since. Come to think of it. we have a Toro just like that one in standby mode but the deck is about shot but it runs and works good. Hasn't run in years but started and ran fine after a few years the last time i9t ran. I'll have to clean the carb when it goes again, no doubt. Main jet. Rear bagger and side discharge and mulcher if one is so inclined. We never mulch because we use Gator blades and they grind clippings up so fine they just disappear. Thanks and Blessings!
shimming works, but the bronze bushing that support the axles are now oblong,
@@HomeGaragechannel The 00 grease stays put well so it'd last a while.
so I've heard.
@@HomeGaragechannel Try some and see what you think. It's a go-to for me. That and Delo.
don't worry, you'll see it in video. thanks again.
I love Toro mowers Toro Are Cool Mowers
yes they are very nice mowers
Some Honda self propelled lawn mowers have a similar gear system at the wheel. If you find the parts to fix it at a reasonable price I would fix it but if they are expensive i wouldn't fix it.
luckily it's not expensive.
I have no idea about the cost of a new transmission or the parts for it. May be to expensive for what money you will gain from the repair. While it would be nice to see a transmission replacement it is your money and time. What ever you choose is fine. Thanks for the video
transmission Is roughly $70 before taxes, but the machine isn't worth much more to me.
Since you got the mower free I would fix it. Still room for a small profit and an opportunity for more experience. The mower seems to be in good shape otherwise with nice paint underneath.
you're right, it's in decent, not beat up like some of the ones I get.
toro is a good brand and once used to self-propilled, you don't wanna go back imo
I completely agree with you.
How much is a rebuild kit for the transmission or a new transmission? I see others have talked about shims. Interesting I have the same mower I need repair that was a free find.
the rebuild parts cost are, $20 bushings, $30 beveled gear, and $25 for the pinion gear. Or a new Trans is $60.
May be remove the transmission and completely clean to check out what’s happening. Cheers
yes sir, you read my mind!
If it were mine I would use it as a push mower. That is because I have never known how to fix it. I'd like to see it fixed.
that makes the most sense. thank you. Jason Hilliker.
I have the same problem with the same mower. After watching your vid, I have the confidence to open and service the tranny. I love the mover-it cuts a little higher than my traditional push and is easy to start.
I completely agree with you on that, thank you topnotcheez.
If you are a mechanic,
a beautiful sound starts at 7:25
.
I personally would get a used one from my stash or just turn it into a push mower. How much is a new transmission?
only $54 before taxes.
With luck, you might find another free mower with good parts to fix this one! Thanks for the info on the wheel/gear placement.
Fingers crossed!
I say use it for parts since I don't know the cost of repairing the transmission or the self drive system.
it's kind of expensive, but not bad, sort of in the middle of the road when it comes down to cost. thank you Ramadin Sookhoo.
Use it as a Puch mower,shame. The gearbox can be expensive..
you make a great point. Thank you Mick
Personally, I would either sell it as a push mower with the transmission issue caveat or harvest it for parts.
I would like to save it because it's one of the last Tecumseh, only as a point of curiosity.