Which Power Amp? Tubes vs SS for Modellers
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2018
- Support the channel and enjoy my music
★open.spotify.com/artist/32XEB...
★ www.ragdollrock.bandcamp.com
Follow me online
★ leontoddmusic
★ leon_ragdoll
★ leon_ragdoll
Gear I use
► Fractal Audio Axe-Fx III, AX8 & X-Load
www.fractalaudio.com
► Anarchy Audio Stompboxes www.anarchyaudioaustralia.com
► Deviser Guitars (STR, Bacchus, Momose & Headway)
www.deviser.co.jp
► PRS Guitars
prsguitars.com/products/core/
►Martin A Smith Pickups
www.martinasmith.com.au/colle...
► Camera - Canon EOS M50
www.canon.com.au/cameras/eos-m50
► Interface - Universal Audio Apollo Twin
www.uaudio.com/audio-interfac...
► Monitors - Adam A7X
www.adam-audio.com/en/ax-seri...
►OPR Modified SM57
www.openplanrecording.com/pro...
► Mesa Rectifier Compact 2x12
mesaboogie.com/cabinets--simul... 
Видеоклипы
Which modeller/power amp are you using and why?
Helix Rack with a Behringer iNuke3000DSP with a couple of 2x15" + horn PA speakers. Moves loads of air, oodles of grunt and sounds ace. Bitch to lug though ... It's about 1200 Watts RMS so it has enough headroom to simulate large guitar cabs well.
For home use, I picked up the new Quilter Interblock to pair with my Axe-Fx II XL. Reason why is because it gives you the Bass/Mid/Treble controls similar to the Seymour Duncan Powerstage, but at a lower power output and half the price (even less with recent sales). This way, I don't have to adjust my profiles and just tweak the Poweramp eq to taste. I haven't had much time to play with it, but for the 30 minutes or so I did, it sounded great. I also tried it with both studio monitors (Out 1) and Cab (Out 2) and that sounded really big, wide, and full. Can't wait to play with it more.
Axe FX II, I prefer using a matrix solidstate power amp. I also have a Fryette 2/50/2 that I have used extensively with the Axe, and while it works very well, its more fiddly to set up. Its a pretty neutral power amp but is still a tube power amp. Some models sound good with the power amp modeling on, others with it off. The speaker page also usually needs fiddling, or you end up with that 'double poweramp' sound where its boomy and fizzy, and too scooped. A solidstate power amp like the Matrix is just easier to set up, and usually sounds just as good (better in some cases).
I switched from a Kemper Rack + Remote + Atomic Reactor Wedge to the Fractal AX8 + Dynacord AXM 12a. The Kemper was great but for portability I prefer the AX8. It sounds great too! \m/ No poweramp but I'm fine with the monitor. Don't treat on me for this coment ;)
My Marshall JCM 9000 poweramp makes everything sound like a marshall lol
Thanks for making this vid! I've decided to make the leap to axe and have been researching power amps and setup etc. Love your vids! 🤘🤘🤘
Oh wow, I've been secretly drooling over tube power amps to use with my AX8, but turns out I liked the SS power amps A LOT more in this one. Thanks for the demo!
Thanks Leon! Beginning to seriously consider the Axe Fx III and this video answered a number of my questions. Really appreciate it!
Awesome. Hit me up with any other questions.
Another great video, Leon! Appreciated this comparison
I’ve used both but the axe fx is truly amazing I use the matrix myself and got rid of my tube power amp. I can always run the axe through the fx loop of one of my heads anyway. Great video.
I play a wide variety of rock/metal/Pop covers, so I needed versatility. I use a Fractal AxeFx II, and run it through a Friedman FRFR ASM12. The Friedman really made a huge difference in the live “feel” of my rig. I am able to get pretty much any sound I need from the AxeFx, and the Friedman translates the amp model and impulses uncolored. The Friedman also has an XLR output, so you can Daisy chain a single out to the FRFR, and then out to the FOH. Keeps my setup simple. Love the channel! Keep up the good work!
Cool. Would be interested to hear what it would sound like using the power amp modelling into the tube power amp.
Perfect A&B comparison, I have a 2:90 power amp with has deep, half and modern mode, I guess I can be close if I use the deep mode. I don't have a solid state power amp but I would like to test with my AX8.
I never thought I’d see the day solid state rivalled tube amps....now it’s everyday 🤣🤣🤣
But it's like saying an apple rivals an orange,, they are different. Both have pros and cons.
It doesn't I immediately heard the tube qualities on the Mesa power amped the pick attack on the palm mutes the tightened bass responds and the harmonic content immediately different .Granted Im listening to it through a high end set of studio monitors .
They don’t, Leon needs a “how to set up a tube power amp” lesson, if he wants to move air your not beating tubes
Nobody seems to get it. The sound is there with modelers. No argument. *The feel is lacking.* The organic dynamics and direct feeling between fingers and sound is not there.
Thank you for all that you have shared about fractal products. I still use a ax-8 and have never felt the need for a ax-3 since you showed us how to implement a H-9 with our ax-8. Keep up the good work. Your the reason why a computer illiterate like Me still has & now has learnt to enjoy the fractal ax-8.
Thanks again.
This made me very happy to read :)
Wow. B was remarkably more pleasing to listen to. Kudos again Mr Leon!
Thanks for the video Leon. I'm currently using and loving AXE-FXll XL+ through Mesa Simul 2:90 stereo into Marshall 4x12 w/vintage 30's. I bypass only the cab block. I've been considering moving to the Matrix to get 100% away from tubes. Bit expensive to purchase and hope for the best since i can't try before buy. BTW cool X vibe in the riff!!
I'm interested in one of the comments you made at the end of the video, Leon : can I run a cable out of the Fx3 straight to a Marshall JCM Fx loop return to leverage the latter 's power amp? (I've done this with the Helix but wasn't sure if good results could be obtained under an Fx3 scenario). In this case, which output from the Fx3 should be used? Thks in adv!
Thanks for putting that together, very helpful.
Hi Leon! Great video comparison and thanks for going through the trouble of getting these sounds out to everyone.
I'm personally using a line 6 Helix through the same Mesa Tube Power amp you have, but I had a question... How were your volume and presence knobs set during this recording? I do like the ability to control the brightness of the sound before going into the amp. CHEERS!
This is literally my dilemma at the moment^^ I was though really surprised about your A/B results, because I had the opposite results with SS vs tube. Maybe my poweramp sucks. It just a cheap behringer ep2500. Anyone have some insight on using a PA-poweramp for amplification? I'm missing the feel and the low-end when using my AxeFx2 into the ep2500 into my Diezel cab.
If you use a claSs D power amp with a preamp like the Marshall JMP-1, will it be terrible or good?
Hard to find a el34 power amp...
If you have a tube amp with an effects loop, it sounds really good....I had a Marshall valvestate 80watts per side(this power amp didn't have any tubes)...With my Ada mp1 it sound pretty good, later on I added a BBE Sonic Maximizer which brought clarity to my Ada....
amazing ! what you prefer, triaxis or Fractal? for metal sounds (whitout all efects)
Hey. Thank you for posting this. I’m deciding which amp style to use with my axe fx and diezel cab.
Oh man, I am really happy you played "Dogman!" KX was so underrated.
Hey man ! I want to buy this 2:50 poweramp but I have an Orange PPC212 cab 16 ohms... any solutions to use it ? I run it through my kemper
What’s a good power amp to use with a peavey rockmaster preamp ?? Was looking at a old school peavey classic 50/50 but not too sure on it
Do you have any videos comparing the use of a power amp and guitar cabinet with FRFR speakers in the room?
Hi Leon. Since the Mesa Stereo 2:50 has preamp tubes (12AX7’s), are you bypassing those with the presence knob down? Or are you running the preamp tube sim on the Fractal and again through the Mesa Stereo 2:50?
@Leon Todd I know I am late to this party, but after a few years of using the Axe FX3 with powered FRFR speakers (Mission), I am going to be exploring using it with a Matrix GT1000FX. The other decision I’ll need to come to is what cab to use. If I’m not mistaken, this method generally means you are not using cab IR’s so that simulation can be turned off. Any advice in this regard would be appreciated.
In that case you're fixing one of the great variables in any guitar sound which is the speaker and cabinet. I tend to use a single cab IR for nearly everything when playing direct anyway, so get a physical cab that you like the sound of and dial everything in around that!
I would like to buy the friedman Asc-10, mine concern is that Ill not get the cab filling.
Hi mate, Excellent Video, if I was lucky enough to own an Axe Fx 3 I would go Solid State, the weight as you mentioned is a big factor, but to be honest, I found it hard to tell the difference between both, very surprised!
Take care.
Melbourne, Australia.
Can you compare a Marshall 9100 vs Mesa Boogie 2:90 power amp with the Triaxis? I can't find any comparison whatsoever....I have the Triaxis with the 9100 and it sounds great! I just wonder if I actually miss something or if its just a myth...
I bought a Harley Benton Thunder 99 and Running it with a Mooer GE150..Both going into a 4 by 12 with Celestion super 65s. I bought these 2 to see if I could pull off a pro level sound live at a super cheap price..They both cost about $300 with shipping and the results were quite amazing.
Great video and major kudos for the King's X snippet :-) One of the all-time great bands -
They put the power in power trio
I’m just trying to power a line 6 hd pro rack mount, any suggestions?
Another great video as always! Do you normally dial tones for your Axe FX using your studio monitors? Maybe a better question is what process do you go through when creating tone from scratch that you find translates well between studio monitors and FRFR cabs for example? Your videos have really helped me a lot with my axe fx!!!
I usually dial tones on my monitors. If I'm going to gig them I crank the studio monitors right up and add a parametric eq block after the cab sim and dial out any really harsh frequencies.
Axe fx3. Using a Mesa 2:90 through 2 4x12 Mesa Recto straight cabs. Sounds incredible.
I know this is an older video, but I wonder if you might do a review with your JMP-1 and a solid state power amp. Will it still sound like a marshall with el34's? Has SS tech come that far yet? Interesting.
Cool idea!
Cool video! I was asking about this on the Axe forum because I just got a Crown XLS 1002 Power Amp and it sounds like it has a blanket over the cabinet! I've been able to EQ it so it sounds much better. I've also turned off the cab sims. I'm going through a 2x12 with Veteran 30 speakers.
Get a 1-12 open back and put in the middle.I have a Crown also with my AX8 and I use a combination of Closed back /Open and Eminence/Celestion -- All 12'' Blend accordingly.
I would love to see you demo the AxeFxIII through a Fryette LXii!
I thought that the "B" power amp was the tube one, because of the low end, I was wrong! xD I like what the Supply Sag did, it really adds some very realistic low end to the sound.
One of my favourite parameters, it adds so much cool low end thrak.
Ok, that's for big/pro rigs and big open air gigs. Do you have a Home rig suggestion for people who'd like to power software sims like Amplitube, Revalver, Guitar Rig, Bias, EZMix etc. I'm looking at this, because I have all of those softwares and though the monitors sound crystal clean, they don't push any air hence a crippling lack of ''feel'' when playing, so I'm in the process of finding a 15W to 40W amp to drive a 2X12 Cab to push those softwares used as preamps. Obviously the amp has to deliver clean power through the effects loop, right? Would any of those $200 Joyo Bantamp 20W give proper life to my Frankenstein idea? Other thoughts?
You could just use the fx return of your favourite amp. Alternatively, one of the pedal size EHX power amps could do it.
This one was challenging and I guessed wrong! At first I thought, "A" must be the solid state one, because it sounded tighter and more focused, but on the other hand, I also thought that "B" was the solid state one, but the power-amp modelling was just a little "too effective" if you catch my drift. Both sounds were great though.
If I was a touring musician, I´d probably go with the solid state one, as the tone-shaping capabilities of the Axe 3 seems to have a lot of options, and also, since it´s solid state, it´s probably a lot more reliable, compared to a tube power-amp.
I think Metallica are using the same solid state poweramps as you do. If I remember correctly, they use them to power some cabs onstage (when they´re playing on their "traditional" stage setup, not when they´re playing on that rectangular stage in the middle of the arena/venue), just to move some air, whilst the sound that the audience hears (and what they get in their in-ears I presume) comes straight from the Axe Fx through the board.
Hey man, I use the line 6 Helix at home for recording the guitar (wich is perfect) but what is better for live situations : a real speaker cab or a frfr speaker ?
Whatever you're most comfortable with - if you're used to using a combo or head/cab live then a power amp/cab will be very familiar.
From what I understand, the Mesa power amps are designed to be very clean an uncolored. You might have had better results with the power amp modeling on when using the Mesa. There are other tube power amps (Fryette) that are designed to behave very much like the power section of a regular tube head. You would want to turn power amp modeling off with one of those.
Good to know, I may redo this vid
So are you running your Axe 3 thru venue PA? Or thru your own FRFR monitors and/or cabs for amplification?
Venue PA with IEM
We need this video, but with clean tones! :)
Ok I know nothing about how to use Axe or power amps and I think I want to make the leap. So with the tube power amp you can't use the power amp modeling? Only the solid state? What if you were to crank the power amp like we do in tube amps?
I should have explored tubes plus power amp modelling in the video actually
@@LeonTodd what about running through my tube amps effects loop? Will that give you a good sound or is the stand alone power amp the way to go?
Maybe in another video?
That’s why I use a pedal baby for my line6 podGO, it all fits in my backpack 😈
Muito obrigado 👌 this is the only video which is clear what is this difference. Thanks
how does this apply to the kemper and whatever its got or hasnt got goin on with the power amp modelling(or similiar effect of)?
Good question. i imagine you'd need to just profile the preamp section of an amp if you wanted to use it with a tube PA.
@@LeonTodd cheers
@@imantisocial3179 If you want to use a poweramp with the Kemper, the best way is to get "merged" profiles, which are profiles that have the preamp and the whole amp profiled separately and then merged into a single profile. Then you can just click the "cab" side off from the Kemper and that's it!
The way I use my Kemper is, that the FOH/audience/PA gets a direct signal from the Kemper with the cab-sim on, so I don't need to mic the cab, no bleed, the tone is super controllable. Then I use the monitor-out from the Kemper with the cab simulation disabled. That goes into a poweramp and a cab. (you can disable the cab emulation for the monitor output without it having an effect on the other outputs) That way I get the pure profiled sound to the audience while getting some air moving on stage.
Thanks! I was trying to decide if it was worth it to lug a rack around with my modeler. Sounds like a power amp pedal would do just fine (better in some cases). If you have the time or inclination, I'd love to hear a comparison between solid state power amps (cause now I have to decide between Mooer baby bomb, EH .44 Cal, SD powerstage, HB Thunder 99, and several other power amp pedals because they're everywhere :D )
It's not. The purpose of the power amp is to amplifier your preamp signal which where the overwhelming majority of your tone shaping comes from. Additional tone coloring from your power amp is wholly unnecessary. Solid state power doesn't color your sound like the tubes do. Needing one to go with your tube preamp and a myth that needs to have been broken decades ago. Tube preamps are awesome, but tube power is a pain in the butt and just not worth it in the end.
@@dudemcmann6936 I'm not sure if you're answering another person's question, because I'm not running tube preamps... but that's not true. The mooer baby bomb and EH .44 cal, for instance, both impart their own distortion at higher volumes levels (lots of youtube videos on that), and have their own sound even at lower levels. There's a few videos comparing two or three power amp pedals to each other, and they do sound different from one to the next.
This is great info! I'm using an AXE-FX lll with a Mesa 2:90 but I think I'll consider getting a Matrix now after watching this. Mainly because the 2:90 weighs a ton!
@@SimonLloydGuitar Haha! I swear my arms have gotten bigger from carrying mine to rehearsals/gigs.
Would like to say that I liked the tube poweramp more. But yes, the trani sounded way better with the tweed setting. The only way to make it a little more interesting would be if you'd have a way to distort the phase inverter in your mesa poweramp. Which again even if it would be possible would be a set and forget thing, so your heavy mesa tones wouldn't be as tight and the whole ethos of Fractal with all the tweaking and stuff would be compromised again... Great subject Leon, I'm not a modeler guy. But with all your videos I keep getting closer to buying myself an axefx or kemper. Cheers
That's a good summary regarding power amp distortion. Modelling isn't for everyone but these days it's never been easier to get into.
Hi Leon! Love your vids and your gear tests.
So, I had a questions regarding power amps with some of the newest gear you’ve made videos on.. The Synergy modules. I acquired a Matrix 1000FX SS power amp when I switched to the AxeFX, but thinking of getting away from modelers and something more like the Synergy setup, but was wondering if you feel I’d be ok with my Matrix SS amp vs having to invest in the Synergy 5050 tube power amp. I like the weight savings of the SS vs tube, which is one factor that led me to modeling in the first place, but also don’t know how the tone/feel would be running a tube preamp into a SS power setup to a guitar cab.
Hope you can offer some advice and I’ll look forward to more of your awesome vids! Thanks buddy!
The Matrix is fine with the Syn setup but you definitely miss out on some of the "feel" with a tube preamp and SS power amp IMO. I really like the Syn5050 with the Syn modules!
@@LeonTodd Thanks so much for your reply! I’ll have to try it out and see if the “feel” difference is worth the extra weight of the tube PA’s. That was the whole reason I wanted to downsize and gave up my big, heavy amp heads. I wish they had lightweight tube power amps. That would be amazing!
Woah, the Mesa power amp got rid of the annoying rasping sound with palm mutes that I have struggled with my Axe fx for ten years!
Love the King's X Dogman riff!!
These vids are really just an excuse for me to play King's X riffs
Now that the Tube debate is dead the q is how do we improve the AXFX interface and whole signal chain for non-Leon Todd/genius tone chasers. It’s going to be a fun ride.
Augmented reality amps!
Can you do a video on how to heat your house on a 100w tube amp in the winter and use SS in the summer? Thats how we do it here.
🤣
I'm not familiar with that Mesa tube amp, but I made IR's from my Marshall 1960, one through an SS and another through the effects return on my DSL, and the difference was night and day. My results were the opposite of what you got. My SS IR is more flat and dull. But my DSL IR has amazing tube amp shape. You should try this again with a better tube amp. I will say though, your tube amp modeler is very good. Sounds almost as good as my real tube power-amp IR.
I gig 3 nights a week. My setup is Helixfloor >> Powerstage 200 >>>>Orange 2 x 12 Openback Cabinet. I also go out from Helix Floor to the Desk. Couldn't be Happier. best of both worlds.
I just scored an old Marshall 9005 Fifty watt times 2 power amp....I got it to use with my FM3.....I find that the FM3 sounds good with the power amp modeling on,with the tube power amp....
"if it sounds good, it is good" is the only mantra to abide by!
10,000 points to you for playing Dogman
So does the AXE FX iii have built in power but the AXE 8 doesnt?
Neither unit has a built in power amp.
Thank you
I’m guessing the headroom on the Mesa prevents it from compressing - the Poweramp emulation brings that back with the SS - but what about a low wattage poweramp - like a 15w Orange or a H&k lunchbox style - they should give the valve artifacts and the compression at reasonable volumes?
The heavy tones were close enough to be considered negligible to the ear (not sure how it'll feel under my fingers cause that's a different story) but those clean tones were SO MUCH tastier coming through the matrix. I think SS is the way to go for me there
You are absolutely spot on as allways but my quest for tone has brought me back to full analogue: Mesa Quad + 2:90 (deep mode engaged). Stand alone, or if (like you) you're the only guitar player, Modeling and a frfr solution sounds great and very versatile, but in a mix with other players whom play analogue gear, one get's lost in de mix very easily. It's not a matter of volume... I've played Kemper, Axe FX XL through a Matrix gt1000fx but it lost hands down in the mix against a Dual Rec and a JCM900 half stack... I guess one could get away with it if all band members made the switch to digital (like Metallica).
The real question would be poweramp-modeling going into a relative clean-high-headroom tube poweramp vs the solid-state poweramp.
Of course, turning the poweramp emulation off and then not driving the real tube poweramp hard will lose something somewhere, compared to driving an (emulated) poweramp real hard and playing that sound at more reasonable volumes into a solid-state poweramp.
The question that remains is 'what feels better'. Specially for lower-gain players.
Getting a real nice feel in the play of a tube poweramp working can only be done with that poweramp being driven, right on / before the edge of breakup. Which means volume.
So for home players... what gives a more satisfying feel... playing an emulated, driven poweramp at lower-solid-state volume... or playing a real tube amp but not driving it hard to get the volume at reasonable levels.... or attenuating it.
I'm on the fence to get a poweramp to play my Victory V4 tube preamp pedal.. but also to use for my helix. The reason for the Victory preamp is to get something 'real' and to use as a pedal platform. I'm struggling to make up my mind.. will it 'feel' nice enough with a simpler poweramp-pedal for lower volumes and a 1x12 cab.. or do I need a real tube poweramp for that.. and for the money for that, am I now better off getting a smaller tube amp-head.. questions questions :)
Nice KingsX riffs bro!!!
🙏
Power Amp A sounds harsher, B sounds warmer. Nothing that a little eq'ing can't compensate though
I think the difference between solid state and tube power amps becomes more apparent when you are in the room with the cabinet. Close micing a cab to show the difference loses a lot of the effect a tube power amp delivers to the speaker. I have been using a powered Kemper for about 4 years now. I have tried Mission Gemini FRFR, several different guitar cabs, and of course have used it through studio monitors while recording. Since I have had the Kemper, the other guitarist has been through 3 different amps. Blackstar 50 watt combo, Marshall Origin 50 watt combo, and now plays a 50 watt Rockerverb Mark 2 through an Orange 2x12. I have been through about 10 Amp profiles that I actually used consistently. They always sound great while setting them up, but once they are next to the real amp in a rehearsal situation, the profiler always falls short. I have to run the 600 W amp in the Kemper at 3/4 volume to even come close to the 50 W Rockerverb. When the volumes get near unity, his raw sound still has more punch and clarity. That being said, once we are playing live and i'm hearing myself through monitors, my tone is usually better.... Fryette has a good demo on here showing a SS vs Tube comparison using a room mic that shows the difference im talking about.
THIS! My quest for tone has brought me back to full analogue: Mesa Quad + 2:90 (deep mode engaged). Stand alone, or if (like you) you're the only guitar player, Modeling and a FRFR solution sounds great and very versatile, but in a mix with other players whom play analogue gear, one get's lost in de mix very easily. It's not a matter of volume... I've played Kemper, Axe FX XL through a Matrix gt1000fx but it lost hands down in the mix against a Dual Rec and a JCM900 half stack... I guess one could get away with it if all band members made the switch to digital (like Metallica).
Modelers get destroyed on the same stage as a real amp every time.
Dan D Running it through a tube poweramp fixed it for me. Had nothing to do with it being a modeler vs real real amp and everything to do with solid state vs vacuum.
@@SunshineHB Yes, a Mesa 2:90 will do wonders. I mean, go direct with a modeler and beg the sound guy to give some of your volume in the monitor while your buddy in the band has a Marshall or Mesa head on a 4x12. Good luck with that. But yes, a Fractal on a 4x12 with a tube power amp does sound killer. I haven't tried a Matrix or Mosvalve SS amp yet though.
Dan D I had a powered Matrix FRFR and didn’t like it at all. I actually preferred the 600watt amp in the Kemper through a real guitar cab. I have never tried one of their power amps through a guitar cab. I am using the Fryette Power Station 2 which I like because it fits in the rack, sounds awesome, and is also a great attenuator when I decide to get the 71’ Bassman out.
Can i find a 5150 rack power amp or a simulator?
peavey classic 120/120 is basically two 5150 power sections
Leon, why did you go for the GT800FX over the 1000?
I feel like it's all that was in stock at the time
@@LeonTodd Think I'm landing on the GT1000FX-2U! I need to revisit your rig vid. I was thinking of going with two Mesa 4x12 straight cabs for my ridiculous over the top stereo rig. What are your thoughts/recommendations? Cheers
The only thing better than a boogie straight cab is two of them :D
Headrush PB Into Randall RRM 2-80 into a Avatar 4x12. Holy bejeezus
Honestly at this point in life having owned both. I own a Katana 100 Artist MK2 and a H&K Triamp. I play both equally. The Triamp is a great amp but it doesnt have the bells and whistles the Katana has. Neither sound bad. Goto amp for distortion? Katana. Goto amp for everything else? H&K. The speed of a solid state amp cant be argued for high gain. The richness of a tube amp for everything else.... Ive had old Peavey 5150s that sound better than a Boogie dual rectifier. My Katana sounds better than a lot of the old tube amps i used to own. Like you Leon I used to own a Triaxis into a rackmount C+ amp. That had 2 or 3 goto sounds I liked. I dont own it anymore BUT my katana gets more sounds. Just my point.
The problem is there is now 2 types of SS power amps on the market. The older style IMO is much more tube like in how it performs. These are the larger more power consuming mos-fet power. The newer style are a chip or a pack. They both are critical to cooling but the newer style is a little more fragile to heat then the older style.
For the price you pay for a high end modeler like the AxeFX III, you better use all of it's functions! If you go all-digital, go all the way - use a class-d power amp (or other solid-state solutions, but class-d is way lighter) to save weight and utilize power amp simulations.
My thoughts as well. Lots of people say "tube amps are irrelevant, technology arrived", but they are running their modellers through actual cabs. What's the point? If I have to use a cab and deal with heavy gear, then I just use my tube amp and eliminate the hassle of dialing my tone in a PC software. Plus, it's really a waste of the unity's potential to use it with a cab and lose all the cab sim, mics, and many other parameters, including making all the amp sims sound similar to each other. If technology really arrived, then go full digital as you very well said.
@@viniciusbertucci I have a guess about why people still use 412s with modellers - playing through studio/stage monitors doesn't feel the same! I know I myself hate it. I also don't like the nitpicking of every parameter, what about commiting to a sound and playing the goddamned guitar??
I haven't heard an amp sim that can rival my Rivera when cranked.
@@aGabay I believe those people who go the modeller way and use them with a cab want really hard to go digital, but they know that the FRFR falls short in comparison. And the problem with the comparisons we see on RUclips is that they compare the amp and the modellers in a mic'ed situation. I don't care about mic'ed sounds. For recordings I use whatever I can to get the sound I want. Now when I'm actually PLAYING through the stuff there's no comparison. Modellers can't compare with the wall of sound, punch and feel of a loud tube amp through a 4x12. Even Tosin Abasi admitted that some time ago, and now he's using a tube rig (surprise!). People are lowering their standards in exchange of convience, size and a shit ton of sounds of which they won't grasp 10% of them. Also, the hassle of going through menus, adjusting and editing parameters, and all that mouse clickery. Fuck that shit. People blame it on the nostalgia; well, guess what... I'm 29 years old and played my first tube amp in 2012. I play them because they are the best the money can buy.
@@viniciusbertucci Yeah, that feeling when you play a cranked tube amp... I like to plug, get exactly the sound and feel I want and enjoy. I'm past this time tinkering bullshit, got passes that at like 24 years of age. Now I'm 30 lol
The derpy goku is the real secret to massive tone
Michael Wagner used a solid state Macintosh with racer x, white lion, extreme, and others...
I realised a while ago the common thread in the 80's albums I love is Michael Wagener.
Great, king's X
I was using a GT800fx til it blew and took out the speakers in my cab. No service centre in Aus, and Matrix will not supply a Schem. It will cost me as much to round trip ship to them as Paid for it. So for now it sits, useless, and in the way.
All I hear is chug-chug-chug-chug-scrank-scrank. LOL.
I've used/own/owned a Carvin PMxxx (back in the 90's), Matrix GT800, a VHT/Fryette 2902, Quilter Interblock 45, and also plugged modelers into the FX return on my tube heads (Bogner Shiva, Rivera S120, Marshall 50W, etc). It all sounds good. Tubes are fun, but you don't *need* them. I certainly appreciate the weight savings using a good SS power amp these days, even though my Shiva (with a Helix for FX duties) still beats the Shiva model in the Helix by a mile. The Marshall models seem to compare to my 50W quite well, but there's something about the Shiva they just weren't able to capture.
Dude, what's that thing on your head? Did you swipe that off your Grandma's coffee table? btw, nice color. Cool vid, good info...thx. Always dug the reliability & consistency of SS, really diggin the progression of SS technology these days.
What is stopping you from running Power Amp Modeling with the tube power amp? A tube power amp should be doing nothing more than amplifying the modeler. I know that may not be 100% true in practice, but that is not 100% true for the SS power amp either. BTW, I have the Matrix Power Amp in my XiTone FRFR.
At home, my preferred low volume solution it running the AX8, full modeling, through my Champ or 2204, set warm and clean, straight into the front, as neither has a loop. It is a bit like re-amping through a second amp. I prefer the Weber Alnico or vintage G12M's I have to my very nice FRFR. I turn the cab block on and off as the mood suits.
I want to try the speaker modeling in a Line 6 Power Cab, but I am very happy with my current solutions. For sure, it is the best low volume solution I have tried and I have tried many! I still use my Lead 12 sometimes for straight in low volume Marshall kicks.
Think it might be time for an update to this lol
Man, yes indeed this has been an ordeal for me. Being that I've got both the Simul-class 2:90 and the Recto 2:100 its been hard for me to say, fuck it and get the Matrix.
I've been using my Axe III with the Recto 2:100 and with very good results going into 2 Boogie cabs. But curiosity in the Matrix with this setup certainly has me considering buying one.
Especially the difference in weight. The Recto power amp is HEAVY on the back! Great video as always!
Didn’t hear a negligible difference in the heavy tones but power amp B was way better for the bass man tones
That sounds like noise Mr. Vai.
Do you want me to turn it down? LIKE THIS !?!?
I can’t believe I was wrong. Matrix huh? 🤔
Dogman!😁
Matrix sounds harsher here 😥
My Matrix GT1000 with axe fx III sounds much closer to the Mesa Tube amp in your demo. I am an EE and have did custom electronics in each of my guitars. Accept on Collings City Limits Deluxe (stock electronics), I get about the same results you are getting, while playing the Collings. I have 6 great Tube amps and 7 SS amps. I like both, and I am enjoying SS amps only because they are different. The pickups and electronics play an important roll in the over sounds in both type of amps.
Love Collings, they make insane instruments.
I prefer the Mesa 2:90 with deep and modern on. Of course on a Mesa 4x12 with a Mesa amp sim it’s going to sound like......you guessed it, a Mesa. I still haven’t found a solid state amp I like yet.
you cant capture that real world tube warmth over mic, thats why modeling over solid state lacks . so your just basically modeling even when using the mesa over a mic to our ears. i use a bias rack and yes compared to kemper it lacks and sounds digital processed but i run it into my lee jackson amps return and it really wakes profiles up alot !! of course with this amp i can swap power tubes to match the profiles i choose also. they both have their places. but if u want modelers to sound real get a tube power amp .
B was way beefier
I run a Bogner have since 92 one thing I’ve learned is modeling models the distortion but not the tone of the amp solid state wont give you tone even with the best modeler to get real good tone with a model amp sound you need a good tube amp.
This video just proved that what you've just said is absolutely not the case. I'm glad you like your Bogner. Congrats. The truth of the matter is that good tone exists on both sides of the Tube/Solid State debate.
RX120D Everybody’s got their opinions but I was in the First band to record a song and have a top 20 hit on the radio with a line 6 Amp back in 2001 I’ve tried every single amp model solid state amp every gimmick and I’ll put them side-by-side with the Bogner or any high end tube amp any day and you can tell the difference I’m not saying models don’t sound good when you record but pushing that power tube amp there is a difference and models just don’t have it
@@mrjones6501 Sure. You're entitled to your opinion. Amps are your preference. Personally, I don't care what I'm playing through as long as it sounds good. As it stands, the digital realm is on an even level with Analog in my opinion. Times have changed.
I'd be interested to hear the track you're speaking of. Mind name dropping the song so I can look it up?
RX120D ruclips.net/video/C7YHdhGjxHI/видео.html
1:17
1:37
KIngs X content .
I can barely tell the difference and that's because tubes in the power amps don't change the tone enough to to be very noticeable. Tube power amps are extreme overkill in my opinion. They're too delicate and expensive and require too much maintenance for such a minimal payoff. Additionally, 95% of your tone comes from your guitar and pre-amp. why would you want to color it further during the final amplification stage? It's a ridiculous myth that needs to be broken. I've played for many years with a tube pre-amp and a nice solid state power amp. It's the perfect combo.
Dude....the hat. Don't wear that ever. :P
not a fair comparison, if you re going to run your amp sims for distortion then you need to run the tube amp hot enough to compare, not underdrive the tube power amp to make it sound anemic...that is an unfair [parameter trick!!!