Is the Lumix S1H really a mini Varicam?
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- Опубликовано: 8 авг 2024
- The Panasonic Lumix S1H represents a big leap in the mirrorless cinematography game. Panasonic has made some big claims and big advancements with this camera when it comes to video - but how close is it to their premier digital cinema camera, the Varicam?
Vistek Video Producer, Dale Sood travelled to Los Angeles and shot a lifestyle fashion spot with it. Observations inside the video!
Error corrections (what? I don't make mistakes!):
4:38 (ish) I talk about how the S1 only has the gamma of the Varicam, not the Gamut, while the S1H has both. This is starting to appear to be incorrect. The new S1 upgrade (paid) does give S1 users access to both the new Gamma and Gamut. However, my tests seemed to show different results. There are a host of reasons to go with the S1H over the S1 that go beyond just colour science. That said, we'll be following this to see where the two may diverge in terms of colour. No information yet on if an IDT is available for the S1. Stay tuned.
5:22 ACES isn't really a "codec" its mandate is to create a digital image file interchange and color management system that is not dependent on any specific camera, display, or production or postproduction tool. It's an industry standard for managing color throughout the life cycle of theatrical motion picture, television, video game, and immersive storytelling projects. ACES ensures a consistent color experience that preserves the creator’s vision.
More info on ACES: acescentral.com
7:33 I said, "hyper log gamma" when I meant to say "hybrid log gamma."
10:16 I said, "4:4:2 10 bit" where I intended to say "4:4:2 10 bit."
Other things we talked about in the video👇👇👇👇
Gerald Undone S1H Review: bit.ly/2k15rD1
DP Review S1H Review: bit.ly/2lB0VLE
S1H @ Vistek: www.vistek.ca/store/433317/pa...
Model: Stephanie Moore / stephaniemoore007
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#S1H #Panasonic #Varicam 
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Hey! Great video, Dale. Thanks for the very kind shout-out. 😃🙏
Thanks homie!
Amazing! Always nice to find test footage from someone with good taste.
Thank you very much Tyler! Really appreciate the comment!
What a fantastic and refreshing review. I am about a week away from a purchase and I was really having a hard time deciding if I really needed to spend the extra cash on the S1H vs S1 and have watched every video I could. You my friend made a very compelling case and the S1H it is! Really, a great job and a subscriber is born. If I had anything negative to say, you have really damaged my son’s collage fund ;)
Thanks Robert! Really appreciatew the comment and the support!
i remember the days where 520mb was a massive amount of memory
Great video Dale! Loved the opening piece.
Thanks Homie!!
Giving you a hard time aside, love your channel and just subscribed. Also really liked your tripod/fluid head video! Great information. Just wish I could get a chance to experience that stuff myself, in person. Maybe one of these days!
Thanks GFBJJ!!
Those included clips look sooooo good!
Thank you Jayclas4023!
Great review. Love the color of this camera. As a Glidecam user the extra weight of this body is a big bonus. I think Panasonic nailed it on this camera.
Cool that you mention one of the biggest capabilities of the S1H: ACES via the IDT from Panasonic.
I came across this incidentally, and I am really wondering why most ‘experts’ here in RUclips use lossy LUTS for De-Loging their footage.
Keep on going with your great stuff!
Axel
Can you explain what this is? I’m new to all this.
Great info, thanks! Hope you don't mind a quick question -- When the rec709 LUT's applied in the sunset shot at 6:59, banding becomes pretty noticeable - is it youtube compression or is it visible in your master too? (The S1h is obviously an amazing camera, but I'm trying to get a better feel for how much weight I should give the s1h's 10 bit color vs bmpcc 6k's 12 bit). Thanks much! Cheers
Great reveal Dale. Thanks.
THank you Reginald!
dope video bro!
Thanks!
Thanks a lot man ! Got two S1H and I can confirm this set up can be absolutely added in B or C Cams with Varicam Pure without any issues .. And now BRaw arrived threw BlackMg vidéo assist 12G
Thanks LFTV! I'm super psyched to hear that it matched really well, as I had hoped/expected! It's really an awesome camera.
Great review thank u. say, where in the menu can u turn off the shutter record button ?
Hi Matan, your guess is as good as mine. I never found it! It's hidden in there somewhere.
So you have any recommendations for affordable + good media for the S1H?
The ProRes RAW option is going to be great and now the new Blackmagic Assist is going to be compatible with 3rd party cameras that will allow you record into BMPCC RAW. Hopefully the S1H will be compatible to do this.
Nice footage. Thanks.
Can I ask what lenses you used? Did you use an adaptor?
Thank you. It was whatever Panasonic gave me with the camera. Can't exactly remember. It was an L-mount zoom lens. If I were to guess, I'd say it was the Panasonic Lumix S PRO 24-70mm f/2.8 Lens.
Is the rolling shutter better on the GH5S better than the S1H? I was thinking of getting a GH5S with a speedbooster to reduce crop factor.
I haven't tested them side by side, but the math on this should but the GH5S ahead on RS.
Many thanks Dale 🙏🙏💯💯✨
Great video 👍🏾
Thanks Matthias!
Great video champ
Thanks Tally Ho Tech!
Pretty safe to say hands down, the S1H is the best 4K offering mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses system (in terms of image quality)
But, your last point... the best 4K video autofocus ‘so far’ arguably is the Sony A7R4 in cropped mode...
Will Sony ever release the A7S#3or4? I bet people are hesitant to pull the trigger on this camera at least until Sony shows their hand...
However, what are your thoughts as for green boxes over faces or eyes? seems to be some manufacturers have processing that can detect faces and eyes but that doesn’t seem to necessarily mean that is where it is pulling focus?
G. S. Sigma’s lenses work perfectly on Sony, as good as native... big fan of the 16mmf1.4, and I’ll likely get the 14-24f2.8 when it drops
So this camera is possibly accepted by Netflix is it acceptable camera that you can submit films ? Great video thank you
Thanks Frank!
do you think the 25MB/s max 6k data rate hurts the s1h or does it seem enough?
Where are you getting this number from? It records at 400 mega bits a second which is equal to 50 mega bytes a second.
Hey man! Which lens are you using for your shoot at 7 minutes in?
The "Panasonic Lumix S-Series Camera Professionals - S1H, S1, S1R" Facebook Group has a good discussion going on about this camera. I highly recommend joining.
Just to be clear, did you shoot this material in 4K Full sensor readout? Did you notice a difference in the rolling shutter between 4K FF and 6K FF? I’m very interested in this camera as a b-cam, but I heard from someone at Mystery Box that the rolling shutter made it challenging to use. I didn’t see much in your footage so I’m trying to reconcile differing reports. Thanks for your time and insights. Out of all the footage I’ve seen, your stuff looked the best!
Hi Kenneth. I did use the full sensor for the 4K footage, and the 6K. However, I shot only a second of the 6K - as it was a very short day and I didn't have time to really test it. The 6K footage I showed was literally the only 6K footage I had time to take. I know other people are getting different results. I guess that is why you should never trust the opinions of just one review. However, the smoothness of the hand held footage was something that I noticed right away. I use A7 series cameras often and a 5D from time to time, and I guess compared to those it was fantastic - but that's not to say it's not without its rolling shutter. It just depends on everyone's threshold. I try as best I can to be a good hand held operator (posture, stance, etc). So if I just whipped the camera around willy-nilly, maybe it would have been more obvious.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! It does seem that people can get a little worked up about the details. The A7 cameras have noticeable rolling shutter but still see constant use. Also a few of the comments I’ve seen are coming from people that are used to cinema cameras like the Alexa-so their expectations may be a little too high for the camera.
Your footage looked great and makes me think this could be a good b-cam for my Amira or compact/cheap option for those smaller projects where a small camera makes more sense.
Hi Kenneth! Thanks for the comment. And yes, 99% of internet trolls focus on irrelevant details. You kind of have to tune that out and just focus on what matters most to you as an artist & craftsperson. At the end of the day if you're spending money on something that's designed to make you money - you know exactly what matters to you. I don't know exactly if someone who uses and Alexa should have high expectations from a small mirrorless camera, though. They should be well versed in the cinema space and should know without question that it's never going to be a replacement for their large body cameras. We all get excited with new tech, but it's also important to keep our expectations realistic. Thanks for your comments - really appreciate it.
Dude, amazing video again. Can you tell me if you used ND filters with the s1h?
Thank you so much James! I absolutely did. I can’t imagine shooting exterior days without one.
@@vistek Would you mind sharing which ND filters you use?
It was just a circular one that I rented locally in LA. I can't remember the brand, but probably Tiffen.
What LUTs were used for the opening piece? Varicam LUTs?
Hi John. I didn't use a LUT. I used the Film Convert Varicam profile. The LUT looked nice, but I liked how FC looked a bit better.
Is the color science really different from the S1? I love the s1h colors but its very expensive.
Hi Aviciiz - well, technically, no it's not different (which, I know is contradictory to what I said in the video - I was presented with some misinformation). However, what you pay for with S1H isn't really the colour science. It's the load of other features. Important if filmmaking is the priority.
@@vistek So what you said about the colours from the S1 looking like GH4/5 colours still holds true and is the same for the S1H?
Well... that's tricky to say. According to Panasonic, with the firmware upgrade it's the same colour science. So there shouldn't be a difference from S1 to S1H. That said, there was something visabily different in my experience with the S1 and the S1H. I could see a huge improvement in the colours of the S1H. That said, the science doesn't seem to back me up on that. So, I'd suggest watching some videos that compare the two (I'm sure they're out there), or try to do your own tests if you can get your hands on the cameras.
@@vistek Thanks for your response! Hopefully they do have the same colour.
@@vistek spreading straight up lies. There is no difference as stated by the Panasonic’s Matt Frazer.
Just needs the ProRes RAW option ... I think the current internal codecs are kind of weak to keep up with cinema cameras. Crossing fingers it will be 12-bit ... the EVA1 can only do 10bit RAW.
Would be nice, but no one really needs 12 bit. It’s an incredibly inefficient way or shoot video, with very small improvement. 10 bit is great for most applications, and this camera will still do 10 bit at 60p 4K. Which is the significant upgrade from the gh5 cameras in my opinion
@@lewiswood6440 FWIW, from a DATA STORAGE standpoint, you are only talking about 20% larger data files to go from 10-bit to 12-bit (though it allows you to capture 4 times the gradations of each color). Then again, past 10-bit, the law of diminishing returns does kick in a bit (i.e. the ability to visually detect the difference and/or the ability to materially take advantage of the increased gradations).
However, I do agree with you. It is a much bigger jump from, say, 422 to 444, which doubles the amount of data. And the color accuracy benefits of 422 to 444 are probably greater than the jump from 10-bit to 12-bit.
My VERY unscientific guess is that the abilities of the delivery codec is more important than moving past 10-bit. Hmm, since I only have a GH5S, my camera's Gamut limitations wouldn't show a possible benefit of moving from 10-bit to 12-bit. Perhaps the full V-Log gamut would make it visible to me. What am I saying? I only deliver in Rec709 anyway...
/Rant On
Personally, I just wish Panasonic would release a full V-Log implementation for, at the least, the GH5S (I'd be willing to pay for it). The artificial limitations of VLog-L are really irritating to me. I'd love to get an extra stop(+?) of dynamic range out of the camera. And it is frustrating since NONE of Panasonic's competitors (that have cameras with Log) have limited them in any way (e.g. Sony). Even Canon, who is notorious for limiting their lower level cameras to keep from competing with their up-level cameras, provides a full Log implementation on their cameras that have Log.
/Rant Off
Sigh!
Anyway, my $.02... (and probably not worth that).
Nice Vid! Thanks!
Thanks Hans! A great comment on both platforms! Bonus points for you. :)
Vistek | Your Visual Imaging Experts 👍you are a star 🍺
this was DCI 4.2.2 10 bits internal?
Yep!
I don't get the deal why so many people get up in arms over auto focus.
I agree BWL. It's a very polarizing topic depending on what type of shooter you are. Great AF has incredible applications for independent shooters who are using gimbals etc for corporate or weddings etc. For larger scale productions it's not really an issue. I think the frustration for a large body of users is that the technology feels very close to being there - and the blame needs to fall a bit on the manufacturer's marketing. Almost all brands are pushing how great their new AF face and eye detection is; which gets consumers excited - but then it's still just the same old results. We're all a very impatient bunch. :)
What really good glass is fly by wire anyway? NONE!
Yes! The S1H is a mini Varicam and a game changer for professional video production. The camera is really a full-blown 6K cinema camera in a mirrorless body that exceeds the capabilities of anything else in it’s class. For video, television, and film production I can confidently say it offers more bang for the buck of any video camera ever made. Here’s a link to my review of the camera and a trailer for a the 4-hour S1H master class I have produced that can help new owners get the best results with their camera. ruclips.net/video/GhZP14WVCn0/видео.html
seria genial ver un video de LUMIX S1H VS BLACKMAGIC POCKET 6K :)
That's what I want to see.
... vs ZCam s6 & ZCam F6
no comparision. As what he said. Panasonic tech division has packed so much technology into this camera. Black magic still has fixed pattern noise :-O
It should start to happen once the S1H is finished and shipping to stores.
I loved the film I kept replaying it lol
Thank you John! Really appreciate the super kind comment.
Hi, imho the S1 has the same V-Log and V-Gammut then the S1H. Is there some info that the S1H has really different colors then the S1 ?
While I appreciate your opinion Sabri, I have to inform you that you are incorrect. S1 has full V-log gamma, but not the varicam gamut (one m, btw). The S1H is in a completely different product category with Panasonic. It's grouped with their Pro AV line-up which includes the EVA-1 and Varicam. The S1 is grouped with the prosumer product line. Very different technologies. If you would like more information you can find it here: pro-av.panasonic.net/en/cinema_camera_varicam_eva/index.html
@@vistek Thank you, but what i´ve read the S1 has V-Gammut and is operating with the same LUTs as Varicam. Also the S1 and S1H share the same sensor. From reading the charts at dpreview and dxomark there is also a kind of dual iso processing. Is there a probability that Panasonic has crippled the V-Gammut at the S1?
I have no S1H at hand but if you have some time a side by side comparison of colors with S1 and S1H would be great!
Sensor and gamut are not 'necessarily' tied together. A sensor is a photon collection device. No less, no more. There is some proprietary filter dies, but that doesn't really have an impact on its gamut. Gamut and Gamma are a measure of encoding. Encoding is completed after the ATD conversion and is proprietary to the devices hardware and firmware. Panasonic made it clear in their press conference (which I attended) that the S1 and S1H are very different - and in particular in respect to the gamut. Theories can abound limitlessly about why the S1 and S1H are different. One among 1000+ theories could be the S1 does not have a fan, and as such (ie more complicated processing) could overheat the S1. I'm just spitballing here - but you get the idea. The S1H is a very different animal to the S1 - intentionally so.
@@vistek I appreciate your insight, and I really like getting your opinion because you've shot with both (combined with all your other camera experience). Your thoughts on the Panasonic reps answer at the 20:17 mark here: ruclips.net/video/lQ2cuFfcWB8/видео.html
I don't mean to beat it to death but I'm super curious about this as an S1 owner (and potential future S1H owner)
Don’t forget it has the LPF which softens it for a filmic look.
What would have put this camera over-the-top for me is if they would have added external recording to an SSD somehow through the USB 3
only thing missing is Sony's autofocus software
And built in ND :-)
@@patrik.clifford - If you want to use PL or EF lenses you have to use an adaptor to sit the lens farther from the frame. There is enough space in that distance for a company like sigma to make an electric ND filter system lens adaptor.
Why do you need autofocus while shooting pro videos?
@jaspal singh low light is better than Sony for the S1H, you kidding ? lol
Real shooters dont use af :)
top clip
Great review! Thanks! Which lenses, if I may ask?
Thank you Manuel! I only used one lens for the entire shoot. 24-105 f4.
Vistek | Your Visual Imaging Experts Thanks! Did you find something you didn’t like in it?
@@vistek you mean 24-70 f2.8 or 24-105 f4?
@@Trankilstef +1 one that question
Hi guysssss.... read my first response please! I answered this already.
I-BIS
"I' "B" "I" "S"
Wow! This is my first time checking out your channel. Great test and great model. Her high energy is everything.
I have a Varicam LT, and shoot on it almost everyday. I am waiting my turn to dig into the S1H at Panasonic Hollywood. Hopefully, I'll hear back from Steve or Lawrence in the next few days, so I can give her a spin. The colors look really rich and clean. Maybe not quite the Varicam magic but certainly feels very very close, and with the right glass this camera will be punching way above its weight class.
Depending on how my test goes, I may just sell my LT package, buy an S1H, more glass and just rent V35s for larger projects. We'll see. But I am really digging the idea of having a varicam-esque image in such a small body.
This video got me excited for this camera, again. Do you think it would be possible to share a few clips that I can push around in resolve and see how the codec holds up? Thanks for taking the time to shoot something cool and share your thoughts. Best wishes!
Cheers, Alex
Hey Alex! Thanks for the great comments. I really liked the S1H, but I'll be honest - I still don't think it's a replacement for an LT. I think you can probably think of the host of reasons I would give - mostly around usability. I think the S1H is a good compliment to the Varicam lineup, but not a replacement. I also think you'll still likely find a stronger image fidelity out of the LT than the S1H. I would love to send you some clips, but once my projects a completed and uploaded, I trash everything. So I have nothing to share, regrettably. I would strongly suggest you reach out to your local rep or retailer and see if they can get you the camera for a day and do your own tests. I'm certain they would be more than accommodating. All the best! -D
Vistek | Your Visual Imaging Experts thanks man. Great channel. I subscribed. Look forward to more content.
Pixelatornyc. .......habe you worked with EVA? If so..would you say this looks more like Varicam or EVA is closer?
👍
must to see: S1h + Ninja V + Sony Cine Alta Lens
That codec is gonna be hard on my CPU
Only in Premiere. Modern programs like Resolve Studio decode it via GPU flawlessly.
@@DennisSchmitz agreed . Dump the Adobe crap and you'll be fine.
Preproduction model***
Yeah, I hate my GH4's colors.
learn to grade it better. ive seen amazing results from gh4/gh5
Black Warrior Lures ..The GH4 was used in all the aerial footages from the film "(A WALK IN THE WOODS")...Starring Nick Nolte and Robert Redford..it got theatrical distribution.. I saw it in the big screen...and it looked absoulety amazing... Jist like film..
Fuji definitely has the best colors
"I said, '4:4:2 10 bit' where I intended to say '4:4:2 10 bit.'" Uh, those two are the same. Did you mean you intended to say "4:2:2 10 bit"?
Darned pesky fingers not typing what you meant... ROFL!
Use the S1H now with the weebill S and I promise you will enjoy the gimbal experience
Nope, the varicam can hold luts with more then 8 Letters...
Short answer. No.
Ahh now this is the video I was waiting for before pulling the trigger and dumping my blackmagic.
Thanks Max! It's a beast for sure. Love the colour science too. I find it's a much more flexible than BM Film, albeit more work to reign in and get a good image. Depends on your post demands and production timeline.
Very reassuring to hear! I love BMD Film for getting an “extreme film look” ...Really anytime I don’t mind wrecking skin tones and DR, but man is it tough to get consistently accurate color and quality skin tones.
I know we may be in the minority here, but I couldn't agree more.
I think manufacturers already gave us very good hybrid cameras bodies in the $2k budget to make videos. Why amateurs would ever need 4k60p to do 24p RUclips or wedding type productions? This S1H has exciting specs but as you state in this video, it's overheating and the AF is terrible. I would add that it's overpriced for the result at $3,995 and most importantly it has no valuable lens ecosystem.
Let's look at some real facts, the new Ursa Mini pro G2 is $5,995 and shoots 4k120p not cropped (yes), and 2k300p (yes), all that in 12bits (Raw or ProRes) internally (yes), with a Canon EF mount. Well then you have it, it's beautiful (look at the videos on RUclips), you can compare it to other cinema cameras, it is listed by NetFlix as a validated camera for productions.
If you want to step up your game for videos from the dslr/mirrorless market, I think this is where you need to look at! Yes it does have a bigger body, but this is how you get to cool down the system when you want these crazy frame rates with quality codecs, it is the same form factor than Red, Alexa, Canon Cx00, Sony FSx,...
Why do you think that the A7S3 is not coming ?!?! I'm sure Sony is trying hard, but there's no magic... The specs that everybody want are in their new FS9, or in the exciting new Canon C500mk2. Yes they clearly know how to do it, yes it's more expensive and bigger than a mirrorless camera, no they won't give us these specs in a tiny $2k camera.
Bottom line, I'm happy everyday for my "amateur" work with the few 10bits outputting cameras we have (EOS R, Z6, X-T3) and my Atomos Ninja :) No Sony alpha product can compete here (yet) with this terrible 8bits 100mbps codec sorry... Please Sony just give us 10bit 422 on your next A74 or AS3, frame-rates are good enough and the AF is fantastic!
Fred Dumartin RE overheating, I think he just worded that line poorly. He said the camera he was filming the review with overheated at least once and Panasonic have solved that issue with the S1H
Correct Luke. Thank you for making the comment. The S1H NEVER overheated. Likely never even came close. I mean, it has a FAN! The camera I was shooting the stand up to camera on however (which shall not be named) overheats after only being on for 15 minutes...
@@vistek my bad. I think Panasonic, Fuji and BlackMagic are the only brands pulling the market forward and this is good. They don't cripple the specs and the S1H doing FF 4K60 is a real deal !! Also the way they did the flippy screen is very smart, it can be tilted up at its original position without being on the left side like on the EOS R which is more convenient when you are behind the camera :)
It’s pronounced “eye-biss”
Not “eye-bee-eye-ess”
I wasn't aware there was an official way to pronounce an acronym for Internal Body Image Stabilization. Thanks for the english lesson! How embarrassing. ;)