"Thirsty" Cat D8 Dozer gets put back together. 3406 Head Install.
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2023
- In this video we are putting the D8 engine that loves to drink oil back together. AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal.
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Great video as usual.
Hi if the air filter is blocked it forces to suck oil passed the value.
Being a tool addict! I already have the tracer dye and light I am amazed how many people dont know|use this. I started about 15 yrs ago when you had to perform the test at midnight on a full moon(just kidding) but it was viewedas a black art! I am not as familiar with Cats as you are but on the surface I would say that the head will not fix that kind of leak. Unless that particular casting has an oil galley that could be leaking It is unfortunate that who ever did the diag didnt use dye in the oil. The leak path might yeild clues. Thanks for including us in the diagnistics Solving murder mysteries doesnt hold a candle to solving engine disasters!
There is different valves on the ones that have dowels!!!! They have a shorter stem length from the keeper out!! The ones with the non dowels are longer because the floating bridge has a deeper hole in it! They will hit the rotator and can cause the keepers to come out! I am pretty sure that I am correct if memory serve me right!! please double check that there is a gap between the bridge and the rotator and that they rock side to side!!!!
I hope you are wrong Roc, but I'm going to have to check that on Monday morning though. I looked all over SIS for info on those stupid bridge differences and couldn't find anything in about 30 minutes of looking. If you are right, you may have saved this engine.
@@AdeptApe Like I said be a while, but memory says there is a different valve stem length use on the doweled head, than the dowel-less stem length from the keeper slots to the top of valve! hope I am wrong, but can not look it up, do not have sis anymore! Look up a 70v 3406 engine for the guide number and valve to see if it gives different part numbers than you showing in sis for this engine, to me the guides are wrong for this engine, when using the dowels, they use to have a rounded head, not the ones for mounting seals!
I'm 90% sure you are right after some research now. The guys over at Hell's Canyon Diesel just sent me an email saying pretty much the same thing you said. I found in SIS that the valves are different part numbers from head to head, but they are if they have the dowels in them. I think we can just buy the different bridges and redo the overhead adjustment. Monday will suck, oh well, better to find out now than in a week with a dropped valve.
@@AdeptApe Ouch
The 50.000 dollar comment roc you are a legend
quick story, I used to work on corporate jets, we had to remove engines for overhaul. the overhaul shop had to tear down and engine twice. They had it all assembled, the stand them on end to aid installing the turbine shafts, an inspector bent over the engine for final inspection dropped his pens out of his pocket down the engine core, main power unit, if he had dropped them down the fan side they would have fallen through.
Ohh man I’m sweating just reading your post. I imagine that inspector wasn’t a popular guy when the entire shop has to redo their FOD training.
Why do I remember seeing this in a movie 🤔
Thank you for the shout out Josh! Beautiful and amazing engine to work on. Cheers Josh! 🍻🥂👍💪
Jerri - AKA Mr Destruction of the Week
As a retired military armoured vehicle mechanic, when you drop something, we call it feeding the hull monster. When we pulled an aging / transmission combo, we weren't surprised by what we would find and even had a cardboard box of "spare" told that previous techs had dropped.
I was out in the shop, I worked the spec shop, and climbed up on the tracks of a D8 with that engine in it! Talking to the mechanic answering some of his questions, when he said they were finishing rolling in bearings, I asked him, what are you going to do with the hole in the side of the cylinder block, the one I am looking through to see you!!! What, you need to pull the engine to repair it, possibly! He went and got the shop manager! Yes, they pulled the engine and sent it to the spec shop to be repaired! True story!
I like the "you have to pull the engine to repair it, possibly" comment. Your original comment is going to be highlighted in the next video, just a heads up.
Some folks do not understand that these decisions are made from warranty dept's or reman center ,.
Even if you disagree its there baby and they also are responsable for it if it all goes tits up .
I like seeing you working on the International because that's what I go through every day and its YOUR FAULT. Forreal though when I was considering working on trucks as a career path I watched a ton of your videos and ended up working at an International dealership. Good times.
I'm so sorry Zachary. I don't envy your job.
Had a classmate at school that works at an international dealership, didnt sound like a good time...
Man I had an international 9400i for like 4 years. They SUCK to work on I feel your pain. Got a freightliner classic now and boy it is so much easier to access things.
Man, the old cat dozers bring back so many coal mine memories. ❤❤
Spent 35 years working on these things and my knees still hurt, 5 years after retiring. Keep up the fine work, Josh.
I honor the great work you did in your career.
Belly pans not fun to remove. Boy do I miss the old 3406 engines, be it in heavy equipment or trucks, they had a growl that was unique to them especially the dozers and tracked front end hylifts, you open the throttle lever and the engine growls. In truck applications (thinking about the 1986 Peterbilt 359/379's) they weren't all that powerful compared to today's engines but the turbo whine going through the gears was awesome (13-sp, 3:70 rears, tall 24.5 rubber). Today's trucks and heavy equipment have much more powerful / torque heavy engines with zero turbo noise and it's just not the same as the glory days. The 3406C was my favorite diesel.
That's a rake, like the one they laughed 😂 at Orange man bad about when he talked about raking the forests in ca.
My brother had a D-9R. V8 Cat. What an awesome sound that 3408 makes !
Looks like a style of Root Rake on that small dozer. Goes down, cuts and pulls up roots in land-clearing. Interesting shape on that one.
Another great video! Keep up the great work! Not sure if it's buried somewhere in the comments but maybe mention that the valve adjustments are done with the engine at room temperature. I reached out to you about that question and you quickly explained to me the importance of doing it at room temperature. Not sure if everyone understands that.
Your react video for Erics teardown has made me a sub for your excellent channel.
Ive worked on quite a few Cat engines in the gas compression world, natural gas fueled obviously not diesel. Its kinda crazy how many different kinds of valve stem seals they have available to use. On Natural Gas engines they get no lubricity or damping effect from the fuel on the faces of the valves, so they actually have specific engine oil for NG engines. So depending on the engine load, they have different valve seal configurations or if turbo charged or not also affects them. So in some cases they would start off with valve seals, but as the gas field depleted, the load on the engine would come down requiring different amounts of oil down the valve guides. So as an educated guess, I would say perhaps some Umbrella seals might help if the problem persists. They don’t positively seal off the stem but help deflect most oil away. They do also have positive seals and also seals that meter a certain amount down the guide. On gas engines, they suffer horribly from valve recession if they dont get enough oil on the seats.
Wow, that is a bad move not by you brother by your higher-ups to take a brand new head apart love the videos, man and the doggie😄😄
I think the equipment at the beginning is a tracked loader and the tool is to rake out junk wood in the woods. It looks similar to a "rake" I ran as a kid just clearing brush and branches out of the forest floor to stop forest fires. That tool is something Californication needs to invest in.
Oh boy...keyboard mechanics working overtime on the D8 for sure...Good Job and a lot of work. Cat D343 old engine that Cat stopped making because they lasted to long. It was one strong diesel engine couldn't kill it...they were in the Cat 988 loader,834 rubber tire dozer, 631 scrappers etc. Years ago. Ever run into any of them ?
The first question to the customer would be, What oil are you using? Had a customer complain about oil consumption. Turned out he was using a 5W30 for car engines instead of a quality 15W40 G grade. Changed the oil and filter twice and cured the problem.
On the trash fire international, showing bottom of cylinder #2
I thought I saw a big crack on the counter weight in cylinder #1. That’s was a lot of coolant.
Right at 8:41 I saw the same thing. Probably just casting marks but worth another look.
Same here
Spot on
Sounds good hope it fixed the problem, haze smoke is normal on the mechanical pump engine till it gets warmed up and working.
Great work!! Don’t be scared of a belly pan we take them off every year. Love the 3406 engine!!!
Shout out to adept ape you got me into working at Caterpillar in New Mexico, im now an apprentice in the main heavy equipment shop and couldnt be happier thank you for your videos and helping me find my passion
To avoid losing tools in a well forever pack an old blanket on each side . Cheers.
As usual great video. I worked on Garbage trucks(front Loaders) for Waste Management. We used to lay down fender covers as tight to the engine and frame as possible It wouldnt catch all the tools and parts we dropped but it caught most. We had three reasons for not wanting to loose things 1 inconvience and having to replace your tools 2 some of the parts were hard to get 3 The most creepy problem was that the crevices and unwashable areas of the frame were usually packed with garbage and the friends that go with it. Unless it was a Snap on tool that your grand father gave you it wasnt worth retrieving! I love the film clip of The Destruction of the Week it would make a great Adapt Ape T Shirt! Keep up the good work
I did a cat D7 engine. Had a coolant leak issue and milky oil. Ended up putting rods and mains in it and replacing the headgasket having an outside company machine and recondition the head. All that work for miss diagnostics on a water pump. That particular engine had to water pumps. One for the intake air cooler and one for the engine. One of the water pumps had a leak internal into the engine oil drive off the front drive creating milky oil. That one had to have the front radiator hard-nosed removed to finish the project. Took me like 3 weeks.
My boss has a manure spreader truck with a C12 Cat that got misdiagnosed in a similar way. Got in-framed when all it needed was a water pump
@@Raise986 ouch
You're a tremendous help and right to the point.
Good vid man thanks for the info!!! I run a cat for 10 yrs.and I believe in them strongley!! Keep them coming!! Please!!
It sucks when Management / warranty dept/ customer does not want a proper diag. When all you want is to find the root cause and make a quality repair.
I try to find satisfaction in the "I told you it will come back" moments the 2nd time it comes in for the same issue.
Many times they’ve got a time limit on the repair. I used to drive a brand new Freight Liner the fleet I was with had 10 of them. They all ate alternators we would get towed to the closest dealer they’d replace it. After the second one I asked why they weren’t checking for a deeper issue. They said warranty time didn’t allow that to happen because not enough time for the job. When the warranty ran out they checked and found the issue repaired it and replaced the alternator yet again. They didn’t have any issues after that. The fleet took all the problem trucks into their shop and fixed them the same as the first one.
@@darrencatenacci2737 We do get time limits but, we can go over to find the original issue. There is just a lot more paperwork to fill out so we can get paid.
Unfortunately the manufacturers typically don't base diag / repair times on real world scenarios.
If I remember right the smoke is controlled in the governor on the back of the fuel pump and the bottom screw controls the smoke and top one gives it the fuel or vice versa. They used to turn them up by taking both screws out and tossing them in the glove box:) Smoke looks cool every time you grab a gear and it makes Greta angry:))
Always a great video thanks for sharing
On the International you should check the injector cups for the coolant leak into the pan. The international Maxxforce DTs and older International DT engines have the lots of issues with the injector cups. I have dealt with this issue in multiple times. Hope this helps!!!
I copy ed an older guys flywheel timing pin locator, a slotted 1/4 " pipe with a 3/8 bolt with head removed having a roll pin going through bolt and spring. To where when installed in flywheel housing, the bolt shaft would snap into flywheel TDC locating hole when turned. Eliminating the need for a second person to locate TDC hole.
"before we build the composite armor sarcophagus for the dozer, we have to keep a short list of the people who've wronged us"
Don't know weather you did this but I always put a bottle jack in between the frame and the spring and that's how I get the oil pan out
Good luck to the apprentice, wherever his journey takes him!
Really cool repair
Great video, this is definitely a favorite channel!
I’m a retired field mechanic worked on d8&6 hate it when they covered in mud and trash can’t tell you how many tools I’ve lost in belly pans. Glad to be retired
A D8 is tiny I work in mining in Western Australia and have never seen anything smaller than a D10 used a D11 is a big rig though. Perspective is everything i suppose.
12 point head bolts don't make it a C model. In the truck world Cat went to the 12 point head bolt, but the rocker arm bolts was still a six point. The early 3ZJ 3406C's was a six point bolt. Around the mid 25,000ish serial number the 12 point design started. One thing we use too do is after the rocker shafts was torqued. Put a reducer from 3/4 to 1/2 and re-torque the bolts under the rocker shaft's. They would loosen up after rockers was torque. So Cat came out with a new procedure. You torque the two inside rows first, 200, then 345. Then you put the outside row on and 200, then 330. The internal fuel lines, I would leave loose at the nozzles. Once I was able to prime the system, pump it up until I see fuel starting to come out. Torque fuel lines and soak up the little bit of fuel. Engine cranks better, as air is almost completely out of fuel system. When the first 3406B came out, (7FB) they still used the same head of the earlier 3406. Since they went from capsule nozzles to the 7000 series (pencil type) a new nozzle adapter was needed. The valve springs was larger thus, the valve spring retainer on the bottom covered the nozzle adapter. When the head had to be surfaced on the combustion side, you had to remove all valves out of head, so you could remove the nozzle adapter. A real pain and didn't take Cat long to redesign the head. With that nozzle adapter you had to hold the nozzle top nut as you was torquing the fuel line. The Jacobs Brake bridge was not recessed and you had to take the exhaust bridge off to get a tool on the fuel line. The intake bolts to the JWAC was three inches long with a spacer. Again production change and made it easier for the tech's.
Hope you don't have to open it back up. Wonder if Cat oil stabilizer would help?
Thank you John. Your knowledge always impresses me, especially on the older engines.
@@AdeptApe My time frame, not yours. I grew up with these problems. Your looking back which makes it harder for you. Would take you a long time to do research on every little procedure that was changed or over looked.
This is what I teach in my SIS class. What part number seals would you put on the oil filter base for 7FB10835, numbers on graphic, 6, 14 and 21?
Hi Joshua, love your channel,we had a 425 Peec and thought it was a C engine till we pulled it down only a B.C engines run bigger rod journals to eliminate the 400000 k bearing roll
Have to love it when you have to hang the axle and put bottle jacks between the frame and leaf spring for an oil pan... even after removing sump...
i think the "peak" engines were the start of emissions considerations
Swapped the engine out of D7R twice and the pain of up and down climbing with bending over in weird positions from the cab and stuff makes ur body ache for weeks even after the job is done
Good video
These D8s are little Tonka toys next to a D11, that would be a engine there. I enjoy watching your video s
I don't know if "the apprentice" watches your videos, but if he does, good luck in the industry, man!
U could fit rubber washers for stem seals.... They seal the valve guide when the valve opens to stop the oil going inside
Thanks 👏
That’s amazing. You can work with those gloves on dude. That is too cool.
I think that weird looking blade is a grubbing or root rake blade. It's made to get the roots out of the top soil when you are first preparing a site and removing the top soil to get down to mineral soil so you can put in footing etc. I'll pass on any constructive criticism, I left some on another channel a couple of days a go and you'd have thought I said something bad about the guy's wife or mother. Keep the good stuff coming and wish me luck I have to run the valves on my Cummins 6.7 sometime soon.
I feel your pain. The whole intern will dog pile on you if you say anything.
Thank you Johnny.
We had a similar issue in a private shop. When all was said and done it was found the light oil the customer used caused it. He thought it would save fuel. 🤦🏼♂️
Haha welcome to the equipment end of things. So much fun. But that's what I'm used to trucks are a pain to me. But I'm used to equipment.
I used to build the huge self propelled case ih cotton pickers and they were a nightmare too. They had a belly pan under the entire machine and I guarantee almost every machine that went out the door had sockets and wrenches and random hardware laying down in the belly pan 🤣
We run old scrapers and the alarms go off the first 10 minutes after it starts you just have to turn the key off for a bit after you get into the gear you want
So the new head came ftom CAT right? Surely they should know that this head configuration would not fit this particular engine correctly?
I'm a mechanic myself and things like this really annoy me. You really dealt with it so much better than i would have 😂😂
Love your videos mate. Keep up the good work
Enjoy your evening with all your family around you Adept Ape
👍
CANNY Adept Ape
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 21:32pm
Thank you Nick.
Rad cap with the vandalism section removed.
You need one of the spring loaded timing pins. There was a document about making them out of pipe fittings and a bolt. It may have been something the old timers had made. Wish I could find that for you. I have one but I don’t think anything has part numbers on them.
Now do my thirsty 3406!
Bring it on down, or up more likely.
@@AdeptApe down, I hang out on the Canadian border. it was actually built last by western state in 2012, I believe the Caldwell location. Still running great it’s just leaking from basically everything at this point, so I thankfully know where the oil is going. With how good it’s been to me it will certainly make the trip back when it’s time.
You can purchase a spring loaded timing pin tool that makes it easy to find tdc in these situations although I agree, not super significant for running the overhead
Amazing episode.
As I am driving cross country to be a mechanic again in pullMan wa. On the Idaho border.
Keep it up
Is that a crack on the crank of the trash-fire or just casting marks??
You should be able to find a spring loaded TDC pinning tool in SIS
Fire truck service is hard on motors. Cold and dark to full throttle after a short warm up. Sitting still pumping water, newer truck will do pump capacity at lower RPM's but still not the easiest service.
I like the equipment video, did you do a lot of equipment work or mostly truck engines?
I did run into mostly the same problem on a 3306 reman engine .it had wrong oil ring installed
I only ever really see 3516’s and 3512 but Jesus them things make my life hard
Been out of the bis. for about 20 yrs.
But I was under the impression that coolant / antifreeze would eat the babbitt on bearings , if left in for some time / not catching a coolant leak early enough ?
Thanks again
I might suggest picking up some harbor freight moving blankets. They're super cheap and you could lay them out as a means to catch any of your tools that might fall. May not be worth it since you don't have to work on equipment like this very often...
@AdeptApe 8:52 Didn't notice the crack in the crankshaft the first time I watched the video, I wonder if the Trashfire has been talking to Cranky lol
Could you tuck a fire resistant blanket on the sides to keep things from falling down underneath? I use to work poles and towers and I used a fine wire to attach tools to my tool belt. dropping something you need from the top really sucks. I drilled and taped a set screw to the socket to the ratchet and did all I could to not drop a tool or me. I am not a diesel expert but I have my doubts this will fix it. I would bet they run the throttle to low for the work they ask of it.
What kind of jump box does your shop use? Does Cat make one? Can you do a review and a recommendation?
My understanding of the C vs B difference is the C crank shaft is interchangeable with the E models (having wider bearing journals than the B's).
Not true, wide rod journal design was phased in and when you look it up makes no sense. For the crankshaft to work in a E model, the timing slot must be cut in it. If not you cannot calibrate the speed timing sensor. I do not know when the timing slot was first used.
@John Goldsmith: OK, so the C crankshaft is not immediately interchangeable forward, but is the E crankshaft interchangeable rearward to the C, and more importantly, to the B in order to improve longevity and possibly strength. Thanks and take care.
If you have a magnet you can get those keys out.
Hey love the channel, but I just had that experience where I didn’t catch the difference in valve stem height between the fixed bridges and the floating bridges above the valve, rotator and dropped a valve on a 3408 and the natural gas side of the world it only had 70 hours on the new heads if you want pictures of it, I can send you them
Sorry to hear that, send them over to AdeptApe@yahoo.com I just made a video on getting it fixed today actually.
On the number 3 cylinder of that International is that a big crack on the counterweight ?
OMG! The old "I put it back the way I found it."
Who says the last guy did it right?
What is the serial number?
The "A,B,and,C"Model use adjustable bridges, if the dowels are missing, and it has the wrong bridges, something is a foot.
Also those adjustable bridge engines had a valve train adjustment every 125k on hyway.
You oil consumption is probably the valve guides as you suspected. Caused by the wrong bridges, the rockers have more side torque on the bridges and valves without elephant foot style rockers on a 3406E or C-15, thus requiring the guided adjustable bridge.
Just because it's not on SIS for your Machine, you can look up the info on just the Engine 90% of it under the same Engine for other applications.
I just recently sent in a ticket on SIS not supplying info on a 3176 in a D6. I had to use a C-10 Ztruck engine to get info. CAT has now adjusted SIS and placed the info with the 3176 as it should have been. SIS2 is full of gaffs.
Hey question here!
C13 acert here. It runs rough at cold idle(not so bad when warmed up, almost like a miss but I did a cut out test and everything came back fine.
It runs the worst all the time if you have the park brake on and leave it in gear(automatic). Sounds like it skips a beat every few seconds. While driving it's totally fine.
I bypassed the fuel tank and ran it out of a clean bucket of diesel and no change.
I did a full valve adjustment
Replaced fuel transfer pump
replaced the 75psi regulator on the fuel manifold.
Fuel gauge on the compucheck fitting reading about 70psi at idle.
Any thoughts man? No logged codes.
We just put this remane in in December of 2022
Edit: just checked another engine and the fuel pressure was at 65 via the compucheck fitting
D8 Dozer 3406 engine have ECM ,or mechanical diesel pump.( like old school diesel engines).
Thanks for answering.
Did you use a spirit or similar in the bores to check if the rings held it in each cylinder?
I was caught as a young engineer when the chrome liner surfaces was perfect. Thanks Josh.
Get you a Texas twister for an air hammer
if the turbo oil seal has a bit of age and the turbo also is getting a few thousand hours it's a good possibility that it's leaking oil , turbos don't last so it might pay to get it serviced or a reman exchange one and put it on it. as you said you didn't know where it's using the oil. i would have done it before i did the head
8:51 is that a crack on the crank?
8:51 is the crank cracked on the right?
👊🏻💪🏻
Oil consumption on earth moving machines… did you check the air filter?
By revving up the engine during idle that help prevent the oil use?
It’s a root ripper
I have NEVER seen a 3406 head with those "E model" bridges 😳 something is FISHY....
Has this been apart before??
Fyi Old dozers got a root rake. Least it looks like one lol
3306 engines are also 15 thou int 30 thou exhaust
15 I, 25 E and on some 3306 engines with Jacobs Brake the exhaust push tube is bigger. So I replace intake as well so people don't get them mixed up and have a failure.
😊😊😊😊😊😅😅 edit- the faces must've happened in my pocket, or my 🐕 Dog got me when I wasn't looking. I would never laugh at a pain in the ass job like that Josh I would leave that to you.
Sorry, what is the update!!
Lets just say that your comment turned out to be 100% correct and probably saved this engine from an early failure. I'm still working on getting it corrected, but I'm going to make a follow up video and your original comment is going to get highlighted in the video. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on this one.
@@AdeptApe Glad that it helped! You do a get job, keep up the good work!
I hope that solves the oil consumption problem. Seems as if your hands were tied on this one. Oh well “Eagles Upstairs” And all.
I think they honestly made the best decision, it was on a time crunch and we couldn't go much deeper without major time delay.
@@AdeptApe That’s true. I guess there are certain jobs where the clock is ticking loudly in the background. This must’ve been one of them.
You know localcrew, I always see your profile picture and thought it was some sort of monster with a black open mouth. I finally realized it's just a nice puppy with a black nose and reflected eyes. Give them a pet for me.
@@AdeptApe That’s our big, beautiful Great Pyrenees Molly. She was being naughty by getting on the bed with my gf so I took a picture. My avatar is, of course, her face in isolation with her eyes reflecting the flash. She is in a handful of my vids, mostly howling at sirens & stuff. She is very beautiful. And she is a monster. Very protective, naturally. Very barky.
Definitely no oil making its way into the torque converter, is the TC oil a blackish color?
At 852 is that a crack in the crankshaft?