@@sixsense6161 good question I did for a while and as I get better at mixing I realize I need less and less maybe ill do an updated video on how I mix loud now
Here is my flow. Make multiple busses - drum buss, bass buss, sub buss, synth buss, foley fx buss, risers/downers buss. Soft clip each buss to get the most perceived sound from the buss without destroying the sound/timbre. Route each buss to a pre master buss, add saturation and again soft clip to catch any crazy peaks. Route the pre master to your master buss then process - I use 2 buss channel saturation > 2 buss compressor > soft clipper > ott > ozone 8 (eq > exciter > imager > mutlband compr > post eq > limiter to - 4dBs ceiling. Then to the Fab pro L2 with +4 gain. I control my LUFS by the input into ozone which is between -3dB and -4dB. I get crazy loud clean mixes.
This is super interesting. I've always wondered how Skrillex, knife party etc get that next level loudness and this seems to unravel some of that mystery. Muchos Gracias!
Cool video. Interesting he had Camel Phat on his master. This was an old trick back in the day when most software limiters weren't very transparent. Now obviously CamelPhat isn't known as a Limiter, but a multi-effect plug-in (mostly used for saturation, coloring, filtering, compression, etc.). But what people started noticing with it is it had an amazing built in limiter that was fairly transparent and sounded great. People would place it on buses and masters with everything turned off except the "master" section with the "mix" set to %100, and then dial in the volume. Mainly using it just keeps anything from going above "zero"... it gives it a hard-line ceiling that nothing will go over. This helps out the main Limiter (Ozone or Pro-L) a lot because they don't like a clipping signal entering them, so your guaranteed to have a proper but loud gain staged volume coming out of CamelPhat entering your main limiter so it doesn't have to work as hard..... I prob explain that horribly, lol. But I bet he's just using it to keep any wild peaks under control. Many people would drop it on the master this way when they first started out a project as well (like the only thing on the master to start, even if they weren't going to keep it there later) to keep anything from clipping go going above zero while working on a tune. There's actually an old video floating around of the DnB producer Audio (he's a straight Don in the Jungle\DnB game) doing just this exact thing in a tutorial track breakdown.
BigJerr Definitely. I love mixing into limiters, especially on drum channels. I think the key to the whole “loudness war fun” is pushing things in stages (as your video explains). Small amounts of compression and limiting in stages reduces the workload final limiter has to perform, thus allowing you to push it farther and it to react better. At least that’s what I’ve been noticing in my bedroom superstar studio late nights. And yeah, Ableton‘s limiter does suck. I was almost certain they would update that in version 10. It’s not completely useless, but on a master channel it sure as hell is. Lol
@@BigJerr Really misleading info! You preface the whole video by saying not to mix like this, but you are showing people how to do it anyways. Loudness war is not over if people want to mix to LUFS -3. Pulling air through my teeth watching first few mins... tragic
Hey man I want you to know how much I'm grateful for this video. You made an incredible job and it's very well explained. I feel like this is the last piece of puzzle I needed in order to take my music production skills to the next level. The result I got is just phenomenal. I've been producing for 13 years on and off. I thought my music was really good but now it sounds so freakin great and loud! It's day and night. Thank you so much for your work. My biggest dream so far is to make music with Sonny and I truly believe it will happen one day because I'm obsessed to succeed. I will remember you for sure.
I produce metal and i often mix into a clipper (like standard clip/jst clip/inflator etc..) and then once the mix is fone i would crank up that clipper and add more saturation/limiter etc... i can never get the loudness of -3LUFS like they do in EDM. Appreciate the tutorial & flowchart breakdown this was like a PhD research 😂. I might try it in my next few songs. Sidechaining is also another great technique worth mentioning. That pumping effect i often hear with skrillex tracks for thay split second whrn nothing is playing during the attack of the kick or snare 🤘
This was super helpful. I've seen the Skrillex walkthrough from different producers but this was by far the best. Thanks bro for laying it all out and explaining the routing so clearly! Subscribed!
I've seen the thumbnail for this video popping up on my recommendations for a while. I'm glad that today I've finally watched it, cause this is a great breakdown!
What people are misunderstanding about Skrillex's loudness is that he was hitting a maximum of -3.6 Lufs in that particular point of the mastering chain, he had an instance of iZotope Ozone 5 after iZotope Insight, so his actual amount of LUFS may have been different.
Very cool Thanks for the teaching. It will teach me to make tracks even louder than I could -5.5-5.9 short and long -6.1 LUFS is my maximum I think this will give an even greater impetus
SUCH a beautiful tutorial, I soaked in as much as I could, and even took notes ! :) Thank you so much for the information, BigJerr, I haven’t been this excited to learn music production in years ❤️
Hi everyone, for those discouraged that you can't run Camel Phat on newer Mac OS computers, there is a way to run it. If you install this software called "Codeweaver's Crossover", it allows you to run windows applications on your Mac. First install a DAW of your choosing and then install camelphat into Crossover (Note that you'll need a windows version of your DAW and a Windows Version of Camel Phat), then export your mix and then run it through the DAW running Camelphat on crossover and tweak it to your liking. Finally, export your mix again.
Structured asf! This tuto is gold As a dnb producer, it helped me a lot to reach a loud level on my tunes Thanks mate! I knew it was all about chains and different kind of comp but I didn’t know how to use it I was jus cutting peaks with clippers and squashing my transients but it was sounding a bit agressive due to the fact everything was going in a master bus ! So, thank u very much 🤝
BigJerr BigJerr thanks for asking! Personally In this case the bus processing. Im curious what you are listening for when deciding your limiting type and the other parameters like attacks and the channel link in the l2. Also I just started trying to use the mode with the headphone. (Think its audition) and im just not getting what I should be looking for in that. Anyway thats just so stuff in my head but any vid here I learn something i had no idea about so thats appreciate big time!
@@DJYukie all good questions! the EQ video will likely be first and ill touch those questions there - as for the limiter - go back and listen to what I said in the "things to watch out for when mixing loud" section at the end of the video - limiting will add a sorta "pressure" to you sounds/Buses - its one of those things your going to have to learn to both hear and feel and ultimately CONTROL !
I think you summarized Skrillex's tactics very well. I've experimented before seeing this with simple tracks (not so many individual sounds/channels), and it definitely works very well. I think there's more than one way to do this, but this is the general idea. And I think the way to explain it is this: you need a good crest factor at every stage of your mix. If you have a great overall crest factor at the end, your track has the potential to be very, very loud (if you want that). Another thing is that getting to -3 is appropriate maybe for some pop and some EDM, but not for everything!
Skrillex's Drums are the focus of the mix. They peak about 3-6 dB louder than anything else, so that the master compression as well as the side chain ducking help push them to the front of the mix. It would sound very uneven between Drums and Synths with the master off, but the master pulls the Synths back to the front, as long as there are no drum hits at that moment. This way he gets a really loud master with amazing clarity on the drums.
As for Campel Phat - I believe it might have been used for the distortion effect at 1:55 (like automating the mix from 0% to 100%), not for the mastering/compression. What do you think?
Also about the Camel Phat 3 thing...I read in a Matt Zo Post from 2016 that he used the plugin with everything turned off for an effect. It drops the level a few db and may do some kind of auto limiting. I also thought the loudness war was over. Still a super interesting topic to me. Thanks for posting!
this is what i have landed on ! YES simply with the Camel Phat on the track even with the mix set to 0 you dont clip - its crazy and i think thats the main reasons its there
@@screendrem but you know what at the very end of your processing just before you print - you can just ever so slightly add a bit of compression from the camel phat and I think its pretty dope
Oh man! I was searching around for how to use reference tracks, if you should try to get your mixes as loud as mastered reference, how loud your sub-frequency should be, the difference between Span and Metric A/B and then I stumble across your channel and this video and wondering what the hell I got myself into. Fascinating stuff, btw! I'm gonna rewatch this and check out some of your other tutorials. The good news is I use Ableton.
Im intrigued by this-- definitely gonna experiment to see how this can affect my overall sound. Also props on the zelda shit, and from what i can see, really dope tattoos man. You got a new sub tonight:)
Above all, only do this if the 'pressure' effect of this degree of limiting is part of the appeal of your music (as with this kind of dubstep). If it flatters your music to have a higher LUFS reading, then don't squish it.
Super interesting! The signal flowchart is really helpful, but I notice that you never showed the Premaster bus in the tutorial. That just has a Pro-L on it? How much gain reduction is that limiter doing?
couple of questions! 1. How much should I be limiting on each group? Do I set a certain ceiling as well? 2. What peak should the mix be hitting before I start this process and subsequently each stage after? 3. I've run into an issue where the limited sounds of the chain group feeding into the premaster make everything else that feeds into the premaster (drums/musical elements/fx etc.) dull. its as if the main drop sounds and sub are overshadowing everything else and fucking up the mix as a whole. how do i fix this?
Excellent tutorial, fascinating
If Au5 approved, it means it really works!! LOL
Au5 lol my dude
thanks man
The real question is do you do any of this on your productions?
@@sixsense6161 good question I did for a while and as I get better at mixing I realize I need less and less maybe ill do an updated video on how I mix loud now
And I was here struggling just to hit a clean -12 lol
youll get it !
that's because you want to achieve this with a compressor, but what you need is a waveshaper. So you will instantly get there.
@@SoundPeaks waveshapers rule!
lol how bad
@@SoundPeaks what do you mean by waveshaper?
Here is my flow. Make multiple busses - drum buss, bass buss, sub buss, synth buss, foley fx buss, risers/downers buss. Soft clip each buss to get the most perceived sound from the buss without destroying the sound/timbre. Route each buss to a pre master buss, add saturation and again soft clip to catch any crazy peaks. Route the pre master to your master buss then process - I use 2 buss channel saturation > 2 buss compressor > soft clipper > ott > ozone 8 (eq > exciter > imager > mutlband compr > post eq > limiter to - 4dBs ceiling. Then to the Fab pro L2 with +4 gain. I control my LUFS by the input into ozone which is between -3dB and -4dB. I get crazy loud clean mixes.
Great video as well btw! Subbed
That flow chart you used to break down the chains was awesome!!
so dope my dude glad you dig it
This is super interesting. I've always wondered how Skrillex, knife party etc get that next level loudness and this seems to unravel some of that mystery. Muchos Gracias!
Cool video. Interesting he had Camel Phat on his master. This was an old trick back in the day when most software limiters weren't very transparent. Now obviously CamelPhat isn't known as a Limiter, but a multi-effect plug-in (mostly used for saturation, coloring, filtering, compression, etc.). But what people started noticing with it is it had an amazing built in limiter that was fairly transparent and sounded great. People would place it on buses and masters with everything turned off except the "master" section with the "mix" set to %100, and then dial in the volume. Mainly using it just keeps anything from going above "zero"... it gives it a hard-line ceiling that nothing will go over. This helps out the main Limiter (Ozone or Pro-L) a lot because they don't like a clipping signal entering them, so your guaranteed to have a proper but loud gain staged volume coming out of CamelPhat entering your main limiter so it doesn't have to work as hard..... I prob explain that horribly, lol.
But I bet he's just using it to keep any wild peaks under control. Many people would drop it on the master this way when they first started out a project as well (like the only thing on the master to start, even if they weren't going to keep it there later) to keep anything from clipping go going above zero while working on a tune.
There's actually an old video floating around of the DnB producer Audio (he's a straight Don in the Jungle\DnB game) doing just this exact thing in a tutorial track breakdown.
any limiter will don on the master (except ablutions lol) and mixing into that limiter is the key to loudness
BigJerr Definitely. I love mixing into limiters, especially on drum channels. I think the key to the whole “loudness war fun” is pushing things in stages (as your video explains). Small amounts of compression and limiting in stages reduces the workload final limiter has to perform, thus allowing you to push it farther and it to react better.
At least that’s what I’ve been noticing in my bedroom superstar studio late nights.
And yeah, Ableton‘s limiter does suck. I was almost certain they would update that in version 10. It’s not completely useless, but on a master channel it sure as hell is. Lol
Bro that was perfectly put, not horribly explained. It's one of those little but important details of getting the most out of your audio.
@@BigJerr Really misleading info! You preface the whole video by saying not to mix like this, but you are showing people how to do it anyways. Loudness war is not over if people want to mix to LUFS -3. Pulling air through my teeth watching first few mins... tragic
@@okidot im sorry this bothers you so much - lol
Most helpful video on the topic since Skrillex dropped those tracks. Awesome work
Hey man I want you to know how much I'm grateful for this video. You made an incredible job and it's very well explained. I feel like this is the last piece of puzzle I needed in order to take my music production skills to the next level. The result I got is just phenomenal. I've been producing for 13 years on and off. I thought my music was really good but now it sounds so freakin great and loud! It's day and night. Thank you so much for your work. My biggest dream so far is to make music with Sonny and I truly believe it will happen one day because I'm obsessed to succeed. I will remember you for sure.
I hate anybody who leaves this channel unsubscribed, after listening to all these useful information !! 😍👍👍
Thank you so much dude! There arent many videos explaining dubstep loudness that way, literally changed my life.
amazing
Get some more subs for this man! You put so much work into these videos.
I ve been looking for this for years , all i found is some dude brought up tons of analog comp and randomly tweaking it. THANK YOU SO MUCH MAN
I produce metal and i often mix into a clipper (like standard clip/jst clip/inflator etc..) and then once the mix is fone i would crank up that clipper and add more saturation/limiter etc... i can never get the loudness of -3LUFS like they do in EDM. Appreciate the tutorial & flowchart breakdown this was like a PhD research 😂. I might try it in my next few songs. Sidechaining is also another great technique worth mentioning. That pumping effect i often hear with skrillex tracks for thay split second whrn nothing is playing during the attack of the kick or snare 🤘
This was super helpful. I've seen the Skrillex walkthrough from different producers but this was by far the best. Thanks bro for laying it all out and explaining the routing so clearly! Subscribed!
thanks alot - I was thinking about doing a full course on this topic actually
Wow! Thx for explaining that process!
you got it dude
It's easy when it's just drums, one lead sound and some vocal chops. Nothing ever overlapping.
Such a well structured tutorial. I definitely learned something from this style of tutorial. Thanks so much!
I've seen the thumbnail for this video popping up on my recommendations for a while. I'm glad that today I've finally watched it, cause this is a great breakdown!
What people are misunderstanding about Skrillex's loudness is that he was hitting a maximum of -3.6 Lufs in that particular point of the mastering chain, he had an instance of iZotope Ozone 5 after iZotope Insight, so his actual amount of LUFS may have been different.
Very cool
Thanks for the teaching.
It will teach me to make tracks even louder than I could
-5.5-5.9 short and long -6.1 LUFS is my maximum
I think this will give an even greater impetus
I would never mix this loud but this video was dope, great tutorial!
just an option my dude def mix however you'd like - its your art after all!
BigJerr 💯💯
My mom was mixing -3 lufs in the 80's and that's what got her blacklisted in the industry
Awesome vid! Thank you
Amazing video man ! a lot of tips and tricks to try out.
amazing - tell me how it works out for ya !
SUCH a beautiful tutorial, I soaked in as much as I could, and even took notes ! :) Thank you so much for the information, BigJerr, I haven’t been this excited to learn music production in years ❤️
Dope shirt btw !
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing!
you got it
you did this totally correct. well done man
well thanks
Hi everyone, for those discouraged that you can't run Camel Phat on newer Mac OS computers, there is a way to run it. If you install this software called "Codeweaver's Crossover", it allows you to run windows applications on your Mac. First install a DAW of your choosing and then install camelphat into Crossover (Note that you'll need a windows version of your DAW and a Windows Version of Camel Phat), then export your mix and then run it through the DAW running Camelphat on crossover and tweak it to your liking. Finally, export your mix again.
This was so helpful! I'd love to see what settings your limiters are at for this
This was super helpful! Still hope to see a video on how you use the limiter!
So sick dude!!
this project is a boom! and i learn much stuffs THANKS BRO!
of course
glad you liked it
awesome video
thanks
exxelent and clear presentation , many thanks for this
thanks
Fun fact: Ive been doing this exact bus routings for like a year withouth seeing this video or any other info on mixing besides one Barely Alive one
Structured asf! This tuto is gold
As a dnb producer, it helped me a lot to reach a loud level on my tunes
Thanks mate! I knew it was all about chains and different kind of comp but I didn’t know how to use it
I was jus cutting peaks with clippers and squashing my transients but it was sounding a bit agressive due to the fact everything was going in a master bus ! So, thank u very much 🤝
Great vid man thanks so much
Great tutorial!
SO WELL EXPLAINED!!!!
that's an easy sub! Looking forward to check out some more of your content! Thanks for the insight :D
your the man
THANK YOU FOR THIS BREAKDOWN! Exactly what I was looking for
Sick! Gonna try this out
so cool please do tell me how it works out !
TRIP TROP
Hah
This video changed my mixing game.
Wow super informative. Thanks a lot as usual! Have questions about you q3 and l2 so for sure excited about your vids on those!
cool what are you question specificly so i can see if i can work them into the lesson
BigJerr BigJerr thanks for asking! Personally In this case the bus processing. Im curious what you are listening for when deciding your limiting type and the other parameters like attacks and the channel link in the l2. Also I just started trying to use the mode with the headphone. (Think its audition) and im just not getting what I should be looking for in that. Anyway thats just so stuff in my head but any vid here I learn something i had no idea about so thats appreciate big time!
@@DJYukie all good questions! the EQ video will likely be first and ill touch those questions there - as for the limiter - go back and listen to what I said in the "things to watch out for when mixing loud" section at the end of the video - limiting will add a sorta "pressure" to you sounds/Buses - its one of those things your going to have to learn to both hear and feel and ultimately CONTROL !
BigJerr ahh ok I gotcha. Ill do exactly that and train my ears better! Btw your Wish Wish Remix killed at a festival I did over the weekend!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@DJYukie I love that did you get any video ?
I think you summarized Skrillex's tactics very well. I've experimented before seeing this with simple tracks (not so many individual sounds/channels), and it definitely works very well. I think there's more than one way to do this, but this is the general idea. And I think the way to explain it is this: you need a good crest factor at every stage of your mix. If you have a great overall crest factor at the end, your track has the potential to be very, very loud (if you want that). Another thing is that getting to -3 is appropriate maybe for some pop and some EDM, but not for everything!
Your beat and those lazers are FIIIREEEEE, I need em!!!!!!!
This is great ! Thanks
of course
super dope!! thanks for sharing
you got it buddy !
THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING I NEEDED THIS
you got it !
My FL studio Template's about to go next level. Thank you for this❤
I have been mixing for 10 years and I have never heard the word luf. I am giving up. This whole industry is secrets
nice video, but you never mentioned about the drums processing. it seems to me that skrillex revolved the mix around the drums at 0dB
Wouldnt that be impossible?without clipping?
@@thomasmorris9283 skrillex clips his drums
@@ap7390 must softclip them though right?
@@thomasmorris9283 correct
Skrillex's Drums are the focus of the mix. They peak about 3-6 dB louder than anything else, so that the master compression as well as the side chain ducking help push them to the front of the mix. It would sound very uneven between Drums and Synths with the master off, but the master pulls the Synths back to the front, as long as there are no drum hits at that moment. This way he gets a really loud master with amazing clarity on the drums.
Nice work!!!
thanks !
Most def man always great tutorials!
this is dope
thanks man
The way you explaining 👓🕶🥽
Thanks a lot for this!!
you got it
Great video! I wonder what will spotify do to a -3 lufs master? Will it be turned down by 11?
As for Campel Phat - I believe it might have been used for the distortion effect at 1:55 (like automating the mix from 0% to 100%), not for the mastering/compression. What do you think?
i mean honestly your guess is as good as mine - try it and see what happens
Agreed. I'm pretty sure camel phat also essentially acts like a limiter/clipper if the distortion and compression amounts are on zero.
Ok that was awesome, thank you.
This is game changing stuff right here!
Thank you for this video!
Very helpful, thank you.
of course
Heavy weight info here !
Nice video! Instant sub
glad you liked it
Thanks a lot man
subscribed! this was so informative :)
Also about the Camel Phat 3 thing...I read in a Matt Zo Post from 2016 that he used the plugin with everything turned off for an effect. It drops the level a few db and may do some kind of auto limiting. I also thought the loudness war was over. Still a super interesting topic to me. Thanks for posting!
this is what i have landed on ! YES simply with the Camel Phat on the track even with the mix set to 0 you dont clip - its crazy and i think thats the main reasons its there
Agreed. I'm laughing to myself about it.
@@screendrem the simple things ! good eye !
@@screendrem but you know what at the very end of your processing just before you print - you can just ever so slightly add a bit of compression from the camel phat and I think its pretty dope
Would love to see more of this!!!
Great tutorial, thank you
Thanks!!!
Oh man! I was searching around for how to use reference tracks, if you should try to get your mixes as loud as mastered reference, how loud your sub-frequency should be, the difference between Span and Metric A/B and then I stumble across your channel and this video and wondering what the hell I got myself into. Fascinating stuff, btw! I'm gonna rewatch this and check out some of your other tutorials. The good news is I use Ableton.
Fantastic will try this 🔥
Im intrigued by this-- definitely gonna experiment to see how this can affect my overall sound.
Also props on the zelda shit, and from what i can see, really dope tattoos man. You got a new sub tonight:)
thanks much - I actually think im going to be doing a short course on mixing loud soon
@@BigJerr No problem! im definitely keen to hear it! *no pun intended*
Thank you for changing my life forever.
Dude you blew my fucking mind. Thank you for this amazingly helpful video!!
Very cool ,thanks.
great stuff thanks
Amazing tutorial
thank youuuuu!!!
yoor welcome
I have a former icon student who mixes all my projects and is mentoring me rn!
thank you for this!!
Youre very help with this tutorial, Thank you so much i appreciate it. Question, where do you learn it??
Above all, only do this if the 'pressure' effect of this degree of limiting is part of the appeal of your music (as with this kind of dubstep). If it flatters your music to have a higher LUFS reading, then don't squish it.
Awesome video. Is there any need for a clipper on the pre master?
Fantastic I’m subscribing to you
great
My man pulled out the spider man font! FR though super insightful video 🙏
Imaginary World that’s def not the spider man font
awesome vid. You can also substitute clippers for limiters in many cases it sounds even cleaner !
Great video! When will you have the how You use ProQ3 and ProL2?
we looked on the channel and couldn't find it!
Thanx again for all your help!
I'm actually releasing a course with Warp Academy shortly with all that info so I cant really post it here sorry
@@BigJerr keep us posted on the release date so we can purchase the training!
Thank you!
I usually mix and achieve -6 with no problem or distortion. Let’s try to achieve -3 🔥
whats your processes of eqing and levels for kick and bass to get -6 without this technique
this video is very rare shit,thanks,for some knowledge and for that chart
Super interesting! The signal flowchart is really helpful, but I notice that you never showed the Premaster bus in the tutorial. That just has a Pro-L on it? How much gain reduction is that limiter doing?
THANKS!!
thumbs up and a new sub nice video dude
thanks so much !
couple of questions!
1. How much should I be limiting on each group? Do I set a certain ceiling as well?
2. What peak should the mix be hitting before I start this process and subsequently each stage after?
3. I've run into an issue where the limited sounds of the chain group feeding into the premaster make everything else that feeds into the premaster (drums/musical elements/fx etc.) dull. its as if the main drop sounds and sub are overshadowing everything else and fucking up the mix as a whole. how do i fix this?
mastering with mastersword
Super video 🎉thankx but now camel phat not support with newr osx and live 12😢
Liked and subed. Would love a start to finish guide!
This is SO loud. Super helpful though.
This is fucking amazing ❤️