wow thank you for that! This video is almost 1 year old I think and I dont even ask to subscribe anymore :) and I just keep trying to give people as much VALUE as I can! Thank you for seeing that :)
@@TheDungeonCoach I’m was happy when the algorithm brought you to me 😎 So I watched, and watched, and liked Then you hit me me with the 1 Round Skill challenge Boom! Subscribed. FYI I used the 1 rd skill challenge same night to escape of a collapsing mountain cliff (and the PCs managed to save their fallen companion and and a NPC falling of the cliff)
Daniel Manning I never knew that! Haha I did the same crap in my last video where I gave a Homebrew rule that ended up being an actual rule... lol DM I first had told me this, and I never knew otherwise 😆
In my game, when a character is brought up from 0 hp, they gain a level of exhaustion. If that would kill them, they instead remain unconscious until after a long rest. Save DCs to recover levels of exhaustion after a long rest depend on the conditions (Wretched Squalid, etc.) - meaning it might be worthwhile springing for that Comfortable in room rather than throwing a blanket on the ground. Because they gain levels of exhaustion, players try to avoid tubthumping.
I've been thinking about doing something like this with exhaustion as well but I really like the wounded system in this video! I'm thinking of combining them so that once combat is over, the wounded levels turn into exhaustion levels but I think three levels of exhaustion after a single combat might be too much. But we could also Homebrew spells to relieve exhaustion... Am I being too nice? Lol
Jon Osborne that was literally #8 on my original script for the video, but I LOVE this idea, I only took it off because I have never personally ran it in a game of mine. This also uses the underused mechanic of exhaustion too!
I was about to suggest this exact thing before I read your comment. Great minds...? To expand on the point, it offsets the so-called "overpowered" healing word cutting the tension of the dying mechanics and gives incentive to characters to not fight on after dropping (with no consequences). Another thing to consider from the exhaustion rules is that being raised from death removes a level of exhaustion which would make spells like revivify and raise dead a stronger overall sense of reinvigoration.
I like these rules a lot, except that I like the idea of using Exhaustion as the wounded condition. When a player is brought up from 0hp, they have a level of exhaustion equal to their number of failed death saving throws. When a player goes down they have a number of failed death saving throws equal to their level of exhaustion (so they're dead if they have 3 or more). To curb the intensity of this a little bit I'd use your rest rules and add that players can remove one level of exhaustion during a short rest _once per day_ .
Taber McFarlin I was so close to including that modification in this video! That’s another option I was going to throw in there but it got cut out of my script! I love that mechanic too!
A note on rule 5: I think this is actually RAW. “Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make... a death saving throw” (PHB) Even though some groups might not play it that way, you’re supposed to feel like an unbeatable hero when you roll a nat 20.
Yea I learned that after posting this! It’s how I always did it but thought it was away from normal from on of the players (used to be the DM of the group told me otherwise) 👍🏼 good catch
These sound fun, just one thing I need to bring up. Death saves already are start of turn. RAW, if you nat 20 you get up and are aboe to take your turn.
Alike I never realized that! The first DM ever told me otherwise and I never looked back! That’s crazy... so that point is literally useless I just made... lol! Thanks for the feedback!
TheDJAB what a great question! I’d call it an ADRENALINE SURGE If a player Nat 20 I’d give them 1 hit die (plus con mod) of temporary HP and while they had that Temp hp everything they do is at ADV. but once they get hit once they loose the “buff” But it would auto drop after 3 rounds Just an idea I literally just did for you now. But I’d at least do the a temp HP, maybe not the buff though. What you think? 😄
The Dungeon Coach - I think with a natural 20 being able to spend a hit die immediately would be great reflection of a heroic surge. Doesn’t need to be temporary. That way don’t need to track that. It would range from 1 to 17 hp depending on the class/stats which isn’t really game breaking.
In the game I'm playing in atm we have a "last stand" house rule. When you drop to 0 hp, you can choose to stand up and immediately take a full turn with full resources (spell slots, recharge abilities, hp, etc.) before dying outright with no save. With the help death save, I like to make that the result of using the medicine kit, giving it purpose without nerfing spare the dying, but I don't like it being an automatic success. The benefit of doing this is being able to add your skill modifier to the check so there is a better chance they will stabilise, and they do so faster. When doing secret death saves this is also a public check so there is feedback to the rest of the table on how the wounded is faring.
For those auto death save fails, I could see it being scaled with Adventuring Tier. You take the tier and times it by ten then double it, that's your 3 fails. Tier 1 (1st - 4th) - 20 damage or more is 3 fails. Tier 2 (5th - 9th) - 40 damage or more is 3 fails. Tier 3 (10th - 14th) - 60 damage or more is 3 fails. Tier 4 (15th - 20th) - 80 damage or more is 3 fails. Then each one has its midway point at half the 3 fails level. So at tier 1 you'd take 2 fails at 10 or more and only 1 at 9 or less. At tier 4 you'd take 2 fails if you took 40 damage or more and only one fail if you took 39 or less. I can see this way of doing it being kind of deadly, but I think it works. EDIT: you could also create an “easy, hard, deadly” mode quite easily by adding flat 20, 10, or 0 respectively to the 3 fails value.
ExistentialOcto I TOTALLY love that, it’s like they level up as a group, I like it... feels like a TEAM dynamic! I’ll probably be using this in a future vid and give you a shout out! Good stuff!
Hi, me again, about Pathfinder 2. I follow the advice you gave on the ranger one and checked out this one as well. I will send this to my DnD5 GM, cause he has been looking for ways to make death matter more in this system. Your content is really great, so keep up- :) Now, for the wounded condition from pathfinder 2e there are a few notes. -Droping to 0 HP in PF2 is harsh. You start dying and drop all your items. In a 3-action system, stand up is an action and pick up your items cost actions. So not only you are closer to death, you have to spend a lot of your turn just getting up. -However, only aplying wounded condtion and not the whole dying system can be more lethal than expected. Just a supposition, but i will explain why i think that. Dying in PF2 and in 5e are ver different. 1- First of all, saving throws are handled very differently. In 5e, you need three succeses total to stabilize, or 3 failures total to die. In Pathfinder 2 you can stabilize after the first saving throw. So, for example, a PF2 character in dying 1 has to succeed a DC 11 flat check. If they succeed, they lose dying condition, gain or increase the wounded condition and are stable at 0. If they fail, they are now dying 2. Next turn ( in the failure case), they have to succeed a DC 12 flat check, if they succeed they are dying 1, if they fail, they are dying 3. Next turn, either they succeed a DC 13 flat check (now dying 2 again) or they die. And so on. By these rules, a character can be dying for hours, going back and forth, until they can loose the dying condition either by succeeding, being healed or just death. In 5e having falling down and having a failed save already is worse than in pathfinder. 2- There is a medicine activity called Treat Wounds (10 minutes) that removes the wounded condition and heals hit points (not magic). Without this, you are relying a lot more in magical healing and taking short rests (1h), so its harder to get rid of that condition. 3- Pathfinder 2e has a resource called hero points that are used for rerolls, or if you are ever going to die, you can spend all hero points to recover at 1 hitpoint. You still have to get up and pick up your things, but you are back in the fight. This saves asses, because Pathfinder 2 is deadly if played as intended. So it's like an insurance policy. But it's just an hypothesis, i would have to see the wounded condition in action in 5e to have a better opinion.
Javier Morales WOW I LOVE the insight into PF2! That’s so cool to hear the similarities and differences! Keep the knowledge coming! You’re a great edition to the dungeon crew!! Thanks man!
Auto Death Save Failures: This is my proposed homebrew that extrapolates on your point: if the damage you take is below half your max, it's 1 failure. If it's above half but below your max, that's 2. If it's your max or above, that's autokill (3 fails). Generous, but I think it's reasonable.
For sure generous but TOTALLY makes sense! I love it... that speaks to me... and just feels right! If I do a follow up video I’m gonna throw this in there, shout out for you for sure!
Not that generous if you keep the rule as written where melee attacks against an unconscious character have advantage and are automatic criticals if hit. So any enemy would not always cause 2 death saving throws failures on every melee hit but a decent foe would likely meet the half max threshold, causing 2 failures. That's brilliant. I loved your idea. Coach's take on it have the same logic behind mechanics, but I generally prefer to avoid fixed numbers for thresholds; in abstract systems like D&D I don't see like there's much to gain for memorizing values. "Half the max HP" is a single point on the scale that balances all possible outcomes.
All very good thoughts. I made a below 0 HP chart, which PCs roll on after being reduced below 0 HP. They add the damage that went past 0, and roll a d20. Maybe they live, and maybe they're grievously injured, but they're not necessarily dead; however, I can see how players more steeped in 5e may find this system more familiar. Also, the chart has turned out to be a little difficult to calibrate.
Hey! So I just wanted to say that, while I might not agree with every perspective you have, I really like all the weird quirky rules and techniques you use. I would love to see a video on resurrection :)
Oudwin Exaclty! It’s all about soaking in everything you can from all perspectives and then use what you want to create the right feel at your table! You see the vision. Thanks Oudwin! Resurrections are SO EPIC when you do em right! That’s one of the videos I’m looking forward to the most!
@@TheDungeonCoach yea I mean that is kind of what is cool about DnD I like seeing it like a bunch of optional rules (although I don't consider phb stuff optional but that is another discussion all together). Btw, GL with growing the channel, the timing is probably right so I'm sure that will help. Still way more work than you will ever expect I bet :)
Oudwin I do the same thing with other systems too (hence the last rule too) but I’m all about taking it all in and modifying it to how I like. Appreciate it! Been bustin my butt and have been surprised by the growth!
This video deserves more likes. So many great ideas to make combat and the possibility of having a character die more dramatic while still remaining balanced.
Ted Sroka Thanks man! Will come with time! I feel like one of the strengths of our channel, is there’s a bunch of salad videos, so once someone finds us with one, they got a bunch to check out!👌🏼
I have my own Homebrew for death and dying, but it's part of a larger, in depth HB that covers Hit Points, long & short rests, and makes Hit Dice a much bigger, much more valuable resource. But I like the energy you put into these homebrews. Hope you keep doing it.
Ixelhaine after how much I loved your Revivify fox I would love to see your Homebrew rules on that!! Or others Just made a video (Comes our a week from tomorrow) on my short/ long rest homebrew system that uses hit dice more!
#6 secret saves Imagine being a player, that sits with "entertain me" face, because even his saving throws on his turns, when he's unconscious, rolling DM. Behind the screen.
Stumbled upon this video today and instantly subbed. Love the home brew content you’re sharing. I’ve been running it where if a PC drops twice in the same combat encounter and are brought back up they take a lvl of exhaustion and then another level each time they drop and are brought back up after that. However, I am definitely gonna implement some of your home brew tactics into my game. Can’t wait to watch your other videos.
thenne22 Thanks man! Glad to have ya! This really has became a Homebrew channel and I couldn’t be more excited! Welcome to The Dungeon Crew! I have heard of that rule and it was literally #8 on this list and since I’ve never ran it... I took it off. But I love the system!
I'm starting up a fairly lethal low magic game soon and I was in the market for some ways to make it feel like death matters. So helpful! You have earned a subscriber today!
Magister Ogamesh NICE! I love hearing comments like this, someone was looking for something specific and stumbled across me! Makes my day man! Thanks!!
I'd recommend not running this kind of game with the D&D rules system, but if you want to do that I would say that a great way to hammer home the seriousness of death is to, early on, like first or second week session, have an NPC the players love and have gotten attached to get brutally, suddenly, and unexpectedly killed. Especially if they fail to save this NPC and they die right in front of them, or if the players left the NPC somewhere and returned to find them killed by an enemy (double especially if they can blame themselves for it).
@@TheDungeonCoach for sure, the first time you switch systems can be daunting, but for all those out there worrying about it, I promise it's way easier than you think it is! And can be so rewarding to try new ways and styles of playing with rules systems that are built for and support that new style! D&D is GREAT for a fairly narrow niche of fantasy roleplaying, but there are tons of other games out there that are way better for other narrow niches, like realistic, low-magic, and dangerous.
Thanks so much for all these home brews. I'm totally adding a handful into my campaign! One suggestion I'd like to add is that Stabilizing an unconscious player (through medicine check or spare the dying) prevents death save failures (instead of setting their HP to 0 and then they do nothing for the rest of combat). They continue to roll each turn until 3 successes. This works really well as long as it's in conjunction with persistent failures. I also let my players spend their hit die to regain health on a critical success instead of just going to 1 HP (it happens so rarely, it just makes that come back crit feel super awesome)
I love your vids and really take a lot of inspiration from them for my homebrews. The world I've got for my players is super deadly. I believe in giving players enough rope to hang themselves with. The way I'm running death saves is that when they are healed back up they get an exhaustion stack. I took the general model that you made for exhaustion, made it just a tad more punishing, so players really don't want that exhaustion stack, but it's still relatively well steered away from them totally dying. My exhaustion system: 1: -1 to all d20 rolls & spell save dc's / -5 move (Per level) 2: no Reaction 3: only 1 action or bonus action / no extra atk 4: vulnerable to all damage 5: auto fail all saves 6: death So yes, at level 5 exhaustion they're pretty fragile with only 1 action, -5 to d20 rolls, and -25 movement, no ability to save, and taking 2x damage from everything. But! It beats being dead dead. The rest is RaW but for damage affecting failed death saves, that I handle similar to the damage tier thing you had. Oh and a side mechanic is I created a condition to use called Pain. Pain gives disadvantage to dex saves and both breaks and prevents concentration. Several things such as certain painful toxins can induce Pain, but barring a Con save they are automatically in pain below 25% of their max health. So yeah, sucks to suck
Awesome video as always coach! It was an awesome scene that wouldn't have felt nearly as epic without the framework of the skill challenge. Thanks so much for the inspiration to bring skill challenges into my games!
I just sent this video to my two sets of players. I think these ideas are great! You're so right that nearly dying should be a bigger deal. Thank you for sharing!
The Dungeon Coach you rock! My players were actually concerned at first. Lol one texted me back like "are you trying to kill us!?" But they understood (and agreed) once they watched the video. Lol
By RAW you roll death saving throws at the beginning of your turn. pg 197. "Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw..."
Nice list of some nice options for death saves. I thought you would have added the grinder rule too. :) Old man advice to new DMs on killing PCs (makes for nice engagement 👍 ) I would mention (primary for new DMs) that a character death has a couple of effects that are not fully covered in rules. It can result in loss of players and even the campaign. Some meta points need to be considered by a new DM that has not seen these death save alternatives. (This is long but if you are a new DM enamored by messing with this read) In a party of 4 and one goes down they usually loose 1/4 of there actions. This means if a person goes to save them from death then that person withdraws an additional 1/4 of the actions from the party. This effectively haves the party power. In 5e, the side with the most effective actions wins an encounter (again a general rule). This is why they made it so easy for PCs to get back in the fight. It prevents the lose of actions resulting in a death spiral where one person after another goes down and you TPK. (Being general here because party composition can make this better or impossibly worst) There are things to mitigate this. 1)larger parties mean the loss of a person reacting to death hurts them less 2)Experienced players. Once a player knows how to do an effective nova or RP to prevent the death spiral 3)Start with high levels before changing things. It is important to know that higher level characters can handle more abuse and often can take being pounded on while helping a friend. Also, realize that if you are going to do death save changes try your best to make sure they are good with it in practice. You will know if they are good with the changes often only if they see them. So if and when a person does buy the castle, try to avoid that wipe out. Watch and get your cues from your players. In game try to not let them all die that first time. Let them get away if they run. If they get super angry and if they can win enjoy the show. If they face a second downed player, invent a way to save them the TPK. Maybe have the bad guys retreat and the players find the next town, tower or homestead was ripped apart. Trust me they will want those Gnollls bad if they put together that these people payed for the party’s failure (also a great way to re-introduce the player with a new character). The important part, introduce your players to the in-game death without a TPK (Total Party Kill). That will keep your campaign alive. The last thing add to this is make sure that you handle the non-game element of death with the player as much as the rules. Old guys like me need maybe 5 minutes and I am all ready to make a new character. Young and new players may need more. So make sure you stop the game for a break and make sure it all is okay with that player. Toast the fallen character and congratulate the guy that ran him. It sounds odd but make death - fun. One last thing, if the player takes it hard take a quick break. They will have questions about how it happened or why and be honest. Don’t spoil the Champaign but it they ran there thief into 5 paladins and were chopped because he tried to carry off the princess - tell him that was sorta obviously a bad idea. But If they were trying to save the princess from the gnolls and just roll poorly or you rolled really well - explain it is the dice. But also remember to tell them they can start over with a new idea. Give them a bit of TLC for the first one. Killing characters is actually easy (outside of hot points) but keeping the player takes a bit of work.
Dude these changes are great :) most hombrew systems for death get rid of the death save and up from zero system. I'm happy to see one that keeps it, but manipulates it. Definitely using this. Thanks a bunch, Coach :)
The game I've played the most had one of the best death systems I've read, so I'm sharing it in case you want some heavy homebrew. Stats, HP and damage worked differently, so numbers may be weird. Let's say you have a 14 CON character at 15 HP, fighting and alive. He takes 20 damage, reducing his HP to -5, but that -5 remains there, doesn't magically become a 0. He's now "at death's doors", unconscious, and start losing HP each turn. Any damage dealt to him lowers her HP even more, so he could be at -20, -40, etc. That way, if you want to bring a character back to combat you need to rise it to 1 HP from wherever it was, making healing spells equally useful for conscious and unconscious characters. When you're at death's doors, you roll to stabilize (just as a D&D death save), at a success you stop losing HP each turn, and at a failure you lose HP, with the amount rising with the total number of failures. Now, how do you die? Once your character reaches negative HP proportional to his CON he's dead. In that game it was 5xCON, but in D&D you could make it Proficiency x CON. Your homebrew's though are perfect, and I will implement most of them in any D&D/Pathfinder game I run from now on. As a reminder, you haven't yet linked the resurrection video on this one. PD: I'm not native and watch your videos with subtitles, but the ones generated automatically on this video are in dutch, do you have any idea why?
Miguel Rebollo wow I love that system! Negative health is definitely a mechanic to use and have to BRING THEM BACK. That’s cool! And idk why the subtitles are German! I am getting someone right now to go through my videos and add subtitles though! So that should help! Thanks for the heads up!
The hit point range change at 0 hit points seemed like a good idea but a bit clunky so I would suggest merging this mechanic with something like the concentration checks mechanic. This is what I thought something like this would look like. Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure, and you must make a Constitution saving throw to not gain an additional death saving throw failure. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
I use the Failed Saves Stay rule and each time a player comes back they get a point of exhaustion. But additionally whenever players take a rest they have to spend a hit die to remove failed death saves and levels of exhaustion. This really makes players watch out and makes them not rush into battle when they are low on health.
I like the wounded 1,2,3 concept, but I'd probably use a stacking exhaustion system. They can go down more using this method, but... it utilizes the often unused exhaustion system AND... they suffer cumulative tangible penalties for the trauma their body is experiencing. Magic could be used to remove levels of exhaustion, but that's costing the party valuable resources.
Matthew Neisinger that was the 8th system on the list that I’ve always found fascinating, but I’ve never personally used it myself, so I didn’t wanna put it on there. But in a follow up video I’m for sure mentioning this exhaustion use, because it is definitely under used!
I had the same thought as well, about using exhaustion. I was thinking that with the wounded condition perhaps magical healing could be used to remove wounds as well using the tired system of so much damage for 1, 2, or 3 fails.
As a 4th edition DM, I use a different homebrew that blends 3.5 and 4th edition. The default 4th edition dying state is similar to 5th, based on 3 death saves. Unlike 5th though, successes don't normally do anything. Successes simply stop you from slipping away unless you roll a natural 20, which brings you back to life. I personally didn't like it because you could keep technically succeeding forever and never get back up, so I changed it by reintroducing 3.5's negative hit points. If you go to 0 hp or fewer, you're unconscious and dying. You make death saves each turn. If you fail, you take 2 damage as you slowly bleed out. If you critically fail, you take d4+2 damage as your organs begin to fail and shut down. If you roll a success, you regain 3 hit points as your body tries to preserve itself, and if you roll a natural 20, you immediately become conscious with 0 hit points, and can spend a healing surge for a heroic comeback. As you keep taking damage from failed death saves, you edge closer to the point of death. If you drop to your bloodied HP value or lower expressed as a negative, you're dead, and this can make each potential death wildly different. If you're barely below 0 when you drop, you may end up being able to fail more than 3 death saves and be OK. But if you're already badly wounded, and a crit takes you down, you could end up in a situation where you you're so close to your negative bloodied HP, that you will die if you fail even once. I like this because the players won't know how many death saves they can afford to fail, or if they'll be able to recover on their own, tending to make them act quickly. I tend to roll the dice myself to add to the suspense of not knowing how negative their hit points have gotten. In terms of healing, I change the RAW so that healing effects must heal through the negative hit points before they apply actual healing, so there's none of this "Cure Minor Wounds to get back up" shenanigans. And I allow Heal checks to stabilise the player (no more death saves - they're just down and neither getting better or worse unless they take damage), or give advantage on their next death saving throw. I do like the variants you mentioned so I think I will start allowing them if players ask to do something like that. As the homebrew guy that you are, I thought you might find an older edition hybrid homebrew interesting.
What I do : - When a character falls to 0hp, at his turn he will make a death saving throw in a little box so that no one sees the result, but the box stays there in front of him (no dice fudging is possible). - When there are 3 boxes, the player will continue to make death savings. - Same after 4 boxes. - After 5 boxes, he met his fate. - If someone tries to heal him when there are 3-4-5 boxes, they will know if the character is dead or not by looking at the dices in the boxes. A lot of suspense there. Of course, if the character is hurt by an enemy when he's at 0hp, that will add a failure after the last box (a red or black box for example).
Paul Cave I had a player like that in my campaign that came around to the dark side (creative side lol) thanks man! Send em the video and see if they buy into the hype 😄
I don't understand that mindset at all! The best things about TTRPGs is that they are flexible and customizable! Is it just a comfort thing? Or lack of creativity? Good luck seducing them to the creative side!
Benjamin Harl hahah I know right “rules are just a recommendation” right!? And I can never decide if the “creative side” is the light side or the dark side... I’m gonna go with dark... because I’ve always been a sith fan boy!
@@TheDungeonCoach nah, both the Sith and the Jedi are chumps who deal in absolutes! 😂 Nothing is entirely light or dark, so I would call this creative side the "personalized" side, if only to avoid "shades of grey" references.
I’m definitely using some of these rules! I think it’s a much more fun and fair alternative to monsters intentionally killing unconscious character to prevent Healing Word Wack-a-mole.
I thought of the same system. When I first played I was like "so my life are these three dots not my hp?" I would add reseting hp and capping it per tier and having hp be like stamina points
My way seems simpler. Make even one death save throw, then get healed, you suffer a level of exhaustion. If you are revived from dead dead, your CON drops by one point, perminatly.
Michael Robinson that was actually #8 on the list! But I haven’t used the system so I cut it for time. I LOVE that system though and might throw it in to a combat video I do! Love the simplicity AND using exhaustion more!
Marco Pagnini Yeeaaaaaa! Thanks man, I’m really trying here! I knew this was a big topic to I spent a lot of time making the script for this video and getting it clear and concise!
Love the videos, but all I could think of after the intro was "Welcome to the Dungeon Coach, home of the Dungeon Coach, can I take your order?" Did I mention I love the videos?
How would you feel about increasing the death save DC every time you go down? For example, the first time you ever go down it's the regular DC 10, but the second time it's 11, then 12, etc. And every time you take a long rest the DC decreases by 1 until its back to 10.
I've used the secret death saves before, it certainly ratchets up the tension. I have to admit though, rolling a natural 1 and having the player die quickly was rough especially since the cleric chose not to heal her that right l round. However, it made for a powerful moment in the campaign, and the next time someone got dropped in a combat they rushed to get that character back up.
Hit points and actual damage should be entirely separate from each other. Hit points should be tryhard points, perhaps even fuel for special abilities per Earthdawn, while wounds should be a serious problem. (Also resolves the issue of only murderhobo groups having apostle-tier healing miracles on demand: Hit point restoration becomes energy restoration, not meat-point recovery.)
@@TheDungeonCoach, Earthdawn doesn't quite do what I'd like, but it did introduce to me the concept of using hit points to fuel abilities. Sadly, it's very awkwardly organized and explained, so it never managed to attain much popularity compared to systems like D&D and White Wolf. What I'd really like to see is a 'quick hp' mechanic that refills every short rest (or ten-minute turn in pre-4e); various stress tracks that feed into a 'strain' penalty mechanic, ranging from being overburdened to exhaustion to bruising to desperate overexertion to avoid damage; and then a wound mechanic that combines the best features of Ars Magica 4th and 5th editions. The 'reduced to 0 hit points' mini-article in the 1e DMG on page 82 describes some pretty severe consequences for getting injured like that, which can't be magically remedied by less than a Heal spell. While I don't want to jump to that level of disability for a relatively light injury, I like the idea that getting actually wounded is an issue that PCs will have to handle rather than ignore. It would also make 'bad touch' effects like poison, fire, electricity, etc., less of a 'save or suck' mechanic. If you can use your quick hp to soak the damage (i.e., you don't actually take damage, you just had to exert yourself to dodge just enough), you avoid the special effect and lose 1d6 extra hp to represent the exertion to ensure a clean miss. If you run out of quick hp, which will happen faster because you've had to be extra careful to avoid the poisoned-or-whatever blade, then the next successful attack will allow the 'bad touch' property to take full effect on your character. Massive pain and disfiguring burns for fire, paralysis for tazering, whatever the poison effects are (quick countdown to death, immediate paralysis, hallucinations, etc.), and so on.
Albert Norman wow that’s a cool concept you have going there! Definitely gives that feel you’re looking for. I have a video on short and long rests that the 10 min rest reminded me of that could help
I roll death saves for my players in secret and they enjoy it way more than actually knowing the results immediately. I really like your idea of getting back up with 1 HP after three successes, going to use it from now on! In my games when a character goes down to 0 HP first time in a day, nothing special happens. When that happens again during the same day, they also get one exhaustion and the same thing happens every time they go down until they start healing those exhaustions with a long rest or die from exhaustion. This makes exhaustion actually come up during gameplay. Characters are free to heal each other as many times as they want with Healing Words, but when thos exhaustion points start racking up.... maybe you should actually get out of there and get cover! Your wound system is really similar, I need to think about which one to use...
Rampe I love bringing in exhaustion too! That sounds fun! I bet the players go nuts once you start rolling haha! Glad I could add in the inspirational heroic recovery moment 👍🏼
I like your fixed death saves but I have recently been using the following and my group has already begun to treat death and death save much more seriously. Credit where Credit is due I watch a lot of You Tube DM stuff and I believe this idea originated from the Dungeon Dudes, with some minor changes on my part. Exhaustion: A character gains 1 level of Exhaustion when they suffer any of the following effects: - Take a Critical Hit - Drop to Zero and are not killed outright. - Fail a Death Save by 5 or more
@@TheDungeonCoach - Exhaustion + wounded condition might be to much for a tier 1 or 2 game or campaign. but either gets the job done. Thanks again for yet another great video.
I love this whole system (except for the hidden rolls), but it might be a bit too brutal for my family game (my wife, daughters, and a few family friends). Both of my daughters have lost a character with the RAW death rules, and we've also lost a few notable NPCs over the past four years. My younger daughter is very emotionally sensitive, and each time someone dies she'll be in tears for at least an hour! But my other games with just adults? I'm definitely using this system!
CrownRock1 awesome! That’s so cool that your daughters are experiencing that emotional spectrum thought D&D... so good! And I’m 100% with you on hidden rolls, I tried it out but never have consistently used it
@@TheDungeonCoach Yeah, I've never used it, but had a DM in an online game do hidden rolls for a lot of skill checks. I like how it eliminated metagaming, but it ended up being more frustrating than anything.
I use a homebrew rule of when someone gets revived from making death saves they suffer one level of exhaustion. I guess it would kind of be like the wounded condition except it affects them while they’re conscious
I surely would use the wounded condition, but I feel it "unrealistic" that someone who almost died, can start to fight again without any consequence. I think the "wound 1" also apply to the rolls like a -2; a "wound 2" like a -4.
Mirko Rustici there’s always the off set excuse of “adrenaline” but I can totally agree with a -2 and -4 I’d even make it a -2, and -5 kind of how cover works Love the idea!
Just thought about this. Never used it. One of the things that I don´t feel makes sense is the "I´ll heal him only for 1 hitpoint" or "I give him 1 goodberry" after that person already went unconscious for like the third or fourth time. I find the exhaustion rule works well, but another option is increasing the amount of healing needed to bring someone backup. First time unconscious, any healing would do. Second time, yo need to heal that person for at least 5 hitpoints. Third time, 10 Hitpoints. And so on... It resets on a long rest. :)
A lot of your homebrews emphasize making deaths harder for the players. Here's a homebrew idea to give them a little relief: What if after 2 successful death saving throws, they "stabalize" and remain unconscious? They are still prone and susceptible to an attack, but they have the option to stop making death saving throws at this point. It could simulate taking a risk to get back on your feet to help the other players fight, but at the risk of hitting the last failed death save. It also lengthens the time they remain unconscious.
my rule is simple, if you reach 0 hp, you roll at the start of your turn, you get a 20, you get an hp and can take your turn starting prone, if you get healed normal rules but my changes are here: 1) you don't get your death save reset till after a short rest. you need a breather before you can do that again. 2) you get a level of exhaustion. This is a harsh one, but it's rough going down and standing up, a level of exhaustion makes sense, and 6 times would likely kill you IRL. This rule does lead into my rule of using a hit die to remove a level of exhaustion on a short rest.
GunnarWahl I love this house rule and was literally #8 on this list !!! But I have never personally ran it like that!!! It’s HUGE!!! Gonna use it in the flow
@@TheDungeonCoach it's a lot like the wound thing, but while you get 6 vs 3, it's actually a death spiral, as your character gets worse and worse the more exhaustion they get. However it I've never got complaints at my table over it.
As I explain my knowledge base and come acroosss new ideas I prefer to not spring big changes all the time. sincemy game is an on goinf game i runa session 0 or 0.2, 0.3 etc at the start of each Tier of play ( We advance by milestone) . Thus changes to rules about death , health and healing can be easily explains as a mean of man taining tension as power levels rise. I love the Auto death Saves rule and I think I will introduce it itno my current campaing once we move to Tier 3. I love the auto fail homebrew you have and I tyhink i have a neat adaption that will work with my group and i wanted to share it with you. 2. Auto Death Save Fails Tier 1: 1 Fail (1 - 10) 2 Fail 10-20) 3 Fail (20 & Above) Tier 2: 1 Fail (1 - 20) 2 Fail (20-40) 3 Fail (40 & Above) Tier 3: 1 Fail (1 - 30) 2 Fail (30-60) 3 Fail (60 & Above) Tier 4: 1 Fail (1 - 40) 2 Fail (40-80) 3 Fail (80 & Above) - Additionally at Tier 3 & 4 any damage over max HP would qualify as 3 failures
Going back to this video, #6 Secret Death Saves with your number #4 Secret d20 Rolls. Player rolls into a skull bowl for just the GM to see. Now that would add an extra flair.
Keith Foyston Haha the “behind the scenes” is I have a laptop open just under my camera and I memorize 1-3 sentences at a time and say it. Takes me MULTIPLE takes though so editing takes a while, but I’m getting better at it! I’ve been thinking about getting a teleprompter though to help
The one i use is to balance the system. i use the under half max hp, 1 fail over half 2 fails and max hp 3 fails system. but i also flip it. when you are healed. under a 1/8 max hp. 1 sucess. over 1/8 max hp. 2 sucess. over 1/4 max hp. 3 sucess. after 3 sucess you regain the amount that person healed you for halfed. it makes it harder for clerics and paladin to just go. your good now.
I went simple with it. I give them 4 death saves between long rests. That's it, 4 and you're dead. They pay a lot more attention now to how many saves they have left and are reluctant to take risks when they've gone down once already.
For the auto death save fails, I feel like they should be 50%, 100%, and 150% max health for each level. Additionally, if you already have 1 death save fail, you shouldn't be able to gain another +1, only a +2/+3. This would make it so being swarmed by a group of 3 goblins all dealing 10 damage won't immediately kill you because you get +1,+1,+1 failed death saves
Here's what I propose (haven't playtested it yet): every point of damage below 0 HP reduces your Max HP until you take a long rest. Obviously when Max HP = 0, you die. Wanna Lay on Hands for 1 HP? Sure but next attack your teammate's HP is gonna drop significantly
As the second melee character in my 7 PC party (next to Totem Bear barb), I can tell you that keeping death saves really sucks. We tried this rule bc of the party size. But often the melee PC's will be the easiest targets, and when you're within the AoE cross fire of all the ranged PC's, you're just f*cked and reliant on the cleric's initiative to keep you from dying. It would simply mean I would have to chicken out and do nothing (low Dex...). It didn't fix the problem in any case. I like the wounded 123 idea btw, I might consider that in the games I run. I am considering using negative HP. This is another way to reduce the "bonus action healing jump up" effect. It makes going down pretty scary, as you need some big healing to get back from a good hit. I also like the stand back up after 3 successes however, maybe you could let players keep rolling for a 20 until they make it. Currently, I play DMG gritty realism with LR taking 24 hours, SR 8h. Also my take on DMG massive damage where there is a DC 15 CON save 33% risk of falling unconscious for 1d10 min, 33% 1 turn disadvantage on attacks and 33% 1 turn stun. I'd need to think if I want to integrate some of these rules. I'm pretty content with how it is now
Wow it sounds like you really have found a good balance for the FEEL you want at your table! That’s what this is for me, a base point for me to adapt from, if I ever had 7 players... wow that’s a lot, I’d probably have to tweak somethings lol Negative HP has always intrigued me too btw! I’m with ya!
One of my players is always late but i want to avoid violence as solution. I was thinking i could kidnap him, keep him in my basement and let him out for game day so that he doesn't keep us waiting. I need some tips, could you do a video about "how to kidnap your players"? Thanks man
Disagio World I got you! I would chain him down there and set up the D&D table there too! So he can still be chained up while you play! You know... so he doesn’t run away mid session... lol! I did a campaign start video where I talked about kidnapping players... I should do a video on just that...
How would you recommend introducing a change to deaths mid-campaign? We had our first death a few sessions ago and at first the other players were really concerned but then the dead player explained “I’m not dead, yet” and it took the intensity out of the moment. I agree that falling to 0 hit points should be a big deal. Before watching this video, I had considered having the players roll on an injury table for a more lingering effect once they revive. We’re picking up tonight mid boss fight so I’d like to have something ready to go since I know one player has a single hit point. Thoughts?
midnightwaps ahhhh Yea I hate that, drops the intensity out when that happens. Here’s what I’d do. Talk to the players about the “feel” being off and why you are wanting to add a Homebrew rule. Then explain what you want to do and see if they like it/ what they think. Give them a option and y’all can tweak it from there! I would have death saving throws not reset until a short rest and large blows can fail more death saves. Basically rules 1 and 2 But I’d also follow it up with giving them #4 too to help them out! I’m not a huge fan of most injury tables and am working on a Homebrew one myself that I want to try out, but I’d be careful with that. You could also do another rule where you gain a stack of exhaustion if you fall unconscious too, but I’ve not tried that one! Honestly send them this video and see what they say... that could be a good starting point for the conversation
I wouldn't be surprised if you've already implemented something similar, but my brain is starting to tinker with mechanics that use the wounded condition. Ie. A class feature or feats that actually give a benefit for being wounded - the true grit style character who hits harder the closer they are to death, or whose magic is fueled by pain.
Definitely buried the competition on similar content there Coach. Raised the bar for other content creators to realize they have been em-bodying a lack of progression in this important but looked over area of the game.
taeurus Dude that’s a great compliment! Wow, thank you bro! I’m trying my hardest to stand out in this competitive RUclips scene! Appreciate you noticing!!
Not sure if this is just my viewing experience today - but the audio sounds a bit off... distant. Love the content as usual, just thought you'd like feedback in case there might be technical issues or changes to be made. Or perhaps, it was just me and my 'puter today.
Here’s a crazy homebrew rule: When your character runs out of hit points, you tear the sheet in two, then go home and tell your mama her little boy is a failure. Jesus. Closing in on 40 years of D&D....discussions of this kind seem to me like “Alternative ways to deal with Pac-Man getting killed by ghosts....” Just roll 3d6 down the line and problem solved in 15 seconds.
I like the idea of the damage threshold but I think that that threshold should scale as the game goes on so maybe something like. More than 1/4 of health 1 failed save more than 1/3 two failed saves more than 1/2 health failed save
JoJo Kaler I totally agree, I say in the video you could try thresholds of 10/20 instead of 25/50... but I love the idea of basing it off general max health of the party (I wouldn’t do a individual basis though) great idea!!
Fushi Con Hahahaha YES thanks man! I put a lot into editing every video and try and get better and better, so the fact that you noticed that is HUGE!! Thanks man
Hey, just want to say I love all these options for spicing up death saving throws and making things more dramatic and intense! I do have a question concerning Heroic Recovery though: How does this work with things like Spare the Dying or Healer’s Kits that automatically stabilize the player? Do they just continue to roll saves to see if they tally the three successes to come back up to 1 hp without counting their fails? I would love to implement this in my game, and I’m just wondering how you would rule that!
me personaly, I'd fix the auto death saving throws to better follow RAW, considering that there is already an instant death rule, where if you take atleast twice your max hp in a single turn, you die instently. so I'd say if you take dammage less then your max hp, 1 Death Failure, if you take atleast equal to your max hp, 2 death failures, and if you take dammage atleast equal to twice your max hp, 3 failures, resulting in instent death no matter what. but thats just my personal take, and understand if others wouldn't follow this recomandation, but would rather follow yours, (you Included...)
Hey, just so you know having Death Saves at the beginning of your turn is NOT Homebrew. This is RAW, players handbook pg. 197 "Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw..." Because this happens at the beginning of your turn, the subsequent rule where rolling a nat 20 regains 1 hit point means that although you are still prone, you are now conscious and can take your full turn as you regain consciousness. ofc since I don't like my players attacking and restabilizing their stable ally over and over to give them more chances to make a nat 20 death save after combat (so they don't have to wait the 1d4 hours), I usually just let them make a "special death save" with a successful medicine check on the downed ally. There is no failure condition, but it gives an opportunity for a nat 20 to regain 1 hit point. (though I might want to think about incorporating one of your rules to make that initial attack unwise instead, but I think taking this rule away would be pretty unfair)
Jacob G yea I totally see that now, never knew till after I made this, crazy how you can think a RAW rule is a certain way for years and not know haha And that sounds totally balanced, yea giving that player a chance to snap out of it can lead to some cool epic moments!
I just end running the pointy hat adventure in the feywild, and since My players managed to flee the conflict and left the Bbeg alive, but hurt. I will link the result of that campaing to the curse of Strad campaing. If they are OK it will be with gestald rules, and some of these rules.
An idea regarding #2, I saw you already use the bloody condition, so how about linking the death save threshold to a characters max hp. If the damage is less than 1/2 their Max hp they take 1 failure. If the damage is greater than 1/2 their Max hp they take 2 failure. And there is already a rule saying if you take damage equal to greater than your max hp you die instantly, the same as 3 failures.
Thechaoticmagnet Ooooooo linking it to the bloodied condition is BRILLIANT! As long as each player knew their number (could update as they level) that’s pretty smooth. I chose numbers based on the group... but a wizard would die faster from a big blow than a beefy barbarian would... so I love it! DONE!
I like the idea of a player getting back up with 1hp after 3 successes, but how would you handle non lethal knockouts? I'm building a monk who's re-flavored as a boxer. He only uses unarmed strikes and always goes for nonlethal.
Do you differentiate between #1 and #7? video was a little confusing on that. they seem like the same thing. Does "wounded" go away after a certain amount of time in pathfinder or something?
quazarthemad so it’s all about if getting a wound comes from 1. Failing a death save, OR 2. getting knocked unconscious and coming back That’s the difference and if you combine both it would be very brutal lol And idk about pathfinder, but I have 1 reset on a long rest 👌🏼 Let me know if I need to clarify further!
I think there is a slight difference between killing your players and killing your player's characters 😅
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Literally laughing out loud... wow that got me good!!! ... yup still laughing... wow!
Damn, I was just about to make that joke! You got it first!
Benjamin Harl was really “dying” laughing at that joke... eh? Get it??
@@TheDungeonCoach 😑👏😳👏😂 yep, you got me!
is there now.
The fact that this guy says we should only subscribe if we feel like we get value from his videos already makes him one of my favorite RUclipsrs
wow thank you for that! This video is almost 1 year old I think and I dont even ask to subscribe anymore :) and I just keep trying to give people as much VALUE as I can! Thank you for seeing that :)
@@TheDungeonCoach
I’m was happy when the algorithm brought you to me 😎
So I watched, and watched, and liked
Then you hit me me with the 1 Round Skill challenge
Boom! Subscribed.
FYI I used the 1 rd skill challenge same night to escape of a collapsing mountain cliff (and the PCs managed to save their fallen companion and and a NPC falling of the cliff)
#5 is already in the rules. You do make the save at the beginning of your turn, so if you roll a 20, you heal 1 hp and can play out your turn
Daniel Manning I never knew that! Haha I did the same crap in my last video where I gave a Homebrew rule that ended up being an actual rule... lol
DM I first had told me this, and I never knew otherwise 😆
I forgot about that too. Maybe I will add that they do not suffer a level of wounded if they roll a 20
In my game, when a character is brought up from 0 hp, they gain a level of exhaustion. If that would kill them, they instead remain unconscious until after a long rest. Save DCs to recover levels of exhaustion after a long rest depend on the conditions (Wretched Squalid, etc.) - meaning it might be worthwhile springing for that Comfortable in room rather than throwing a blanket on the ground.
Because they gain levels of exhaustion, players try to avoid tubthumping.
I've been thinking about doing something like this with exhaustion as well but I really like the wounded system in this video! I'm thinking of combining them so that once combat is over, the wounded levels turn into exhaustion levels but I think three levels of exhaustion after a single combat might be too much. But we could also Homebrew spells to relieve exhaustion... Am I being too nice? Lol
Jon Osborne that was literally #8 on my original script for the video, but I LOVE this idea, I only took it off because I have never personally ran it in a game of mine.
This also uses the underused mechanic of exhaustion too!
@@TheDungeonCoach This works wonders in a gritty realism game.
Will Carter thanks! My main goal was to have it feel REAL and then you could make them more punishing if you wanted to go GRITTY. Glad you like em!!
I was about to suggest this exact thing before I read your comment. Great minds...?
To expand on the point, it offsets the so-called "overpowered" healing word cutting the tension of the dying mechanics and gives incentive to characters to not fight on after dropping (with no consequences). Another thing to consider from the exhaustion rules is that being raised from death removes a level of exhaustion which would make spells like revivify and raise dead a stronger overall sense of reinvigoration.
I like these rules a lot, except that I like the idea of using Exhaustion as the wounded condition. When a player is brought up from 0hp, they have a level of exhaustion equal to their number of failed death saving throws. When a player goes down they have a number of failed death saving throws equal to their level of exhaustion (so they're dead if they have 3 or more). To curb the intensity of this a little bit I'd use your rest rules and add that players can remove one level of exhaustion during a short rest _once per day_ .
Taber McFarlin I was so close to including that modification in this video! That’s another option I was going to throw in there but it got cut out of my script! I love that mechanic too!
A note on rule 5: I think this is actually RAW. “Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make... a death saving throw” (PHB)
Even though some groups might not play it that way, you’re supposed to feel like an unbeatable hero when you roll a nat 20.
Yea I learned that after posting this! It’s how I always did it but thought it was away from normal from on of the players (used to be the DM of the group told me otherwise) 👍🏼 good catch
These sound fun, just one thing I need to bring up. Death saves already are start of turn. RAW, if you nat 20 you get up and are aboe to take your turn.
Alike I never realized that! The first DM ever told me otherwise and I never looked back! That’s crazy... so that point is literally useless I just made... lol! Thanks for the feedback!
@@TheDungeonCoach What would you do on a nat 20 death save with your homebrew rules? Give the player bonus HP?
TheDJAB what a great question!
I’d call it an ADRENALINE SURGE
If a player Nat 20 I’d give them 1 hit die (plus con mod) of temporary HP and while they had that Temp hp everything they do is at ADV. but once they get hit once they loose the “buff”
But it would auto drop after 3 rounds
Just an idea I literally just did for you now.
But I’d at least do the a temp HP, maybe not the buff though. What you think? 😄
The Dungeon Coach - I think with a natural 20 being able to spend a hit die immediately would be great reflection of a heroic surge. Doesn’t need to be temporary. That way don’t need to track that. It would range from 1 to 17 hp depending on the class/stats which isn’t really game breaking.
In the game I'm playing in atm we have a "last stand" house rule. When you drop to 0 hp, you can choose to stand up and immediately take a full turn with full resources (spell slots, recharge abilities, hp, etc.) before dying outright with no save.
With the help death save, I like to make that the result of using the medicine kit, giving it purpose without nerfing spare the dying, but I don't like it being an automatic success. The benefit of doing this is being able to add your skill modifier to the check so there is a better chance they will stabilise, and they do so faster. When doing secret death saves this is also a public check so there is feedback to the rest of the table on how the wounded is faring.
Dude my jaw dropped whne I read this... WOW!! hahah SO EPIC! good stuff man
@@TheDungeonCoach it makes for some cool moments, especially if a fight is going poorly, and gives players an out if they want to change things up.
For those auto death save fails, I could see it being scaled with Adventuring Tier. You take the tier and times it by ten then double it, that's your 3 fails.
Tier 1 (1st - 4th) - 20 damage or more is 3 fails.
Tier 2 (5th - 9th) - 40 damage or more is 3 fails.
Tier 3 (10th - 14th) - 60 damage or more is 3 fails.
Tier 4 (15th - 20th) - 80 damage or more is 3 fails.
Then each one has its midway point at half the 3 fails level. So at tier 1 you'd take 2 fails at 10 or more and only 1 at 9 or less. At tier 4 you'd take 2 fails if you took 40 damage or more and only one fail if you took 39 or less. I can see this way of doing it being kind of deadly, but I think it works.
EDIT: you could also create an “easy, hard, deadly” mode quite easily by adding flat 20, 10, or 0 respectively to the 3 fails value.
ExistentialOcto I TOTALLY love that, it’s like they level up as a group, I like it... feels like a TEAM dynamic! I’ll probably be using this in a future vid and give you a shout out! Good stuff!
Hi, me again, about Pathfinder 2. I follow the advice you gave on the ranger one and checked out this one as well. I will send this to my DnD5 GM, cause he has been looking for ways to make death matter more in this system. Your content is really great, so keep up- :)
Now, for the wounded condition from pathfinder 2e there are a few notes.
-Droping to 0 HP in PF2 is harsh. You start dying and drop all your items. In a 3-action system, stand up is an action and pick up your items cost actions. So not only you are closer to death, you have to spend a lot of your turn just getting up.
-However, only aplying wounded condtion and not the whole dying system can be more lethal than expected. Just a supposition, but i will explain why i think that. Dying in PF2 and in 5e are ver different.
1- First of all, saving throws are handled very differently. In 5e, you need three succeses total to stabilize, or 3 failures total to die. In Pathfinder 2 you can stabilize after the first saving throw. So, for example, a PF2 character in dying 1 has to succeed a DC 11 flat check. If they succeed, they lose dying condition, gain or increase the wounded condition and are stable at 0. If they fail, they are now dying 2. Next turn ( in the failure case), they have to succeed a DC 12 flat check, if they succeed they are dying 1, if they fail, they are dying 3. Next turn, either they succeed a DC 13 flat check (now dying 2 again) or they die. And so on. By these rules, a character can be dying for hours, going back and forth, until they can loose the dying condition either by succeeding, being healed or just death. In 5e having falling down and having a failed save already is worse than in pathfinder.
2- There is a medicine activity called Treat Wounds (10 minutes) that removes the wounded condition and heals hit points (not magic). Without this, you are relying a lot more in magical healing and taking short rests (1h), so its harder to get rid of that condition.
3- Pathfinder 2e has a resource called hero points that are used for rerolls, or if you are ever going to die, you can spend all hero points to recover at 1 hitpoint. You still have to get up and pick up your things, but you are back in the fight. This saves asses, because Pathfinder 2 is deadly if played as intended. So it's like an insurance policy.
But it's just an hypothesis, i would have to see the wounded condition in action in 5e to have a better opinion.
Javier Morales WOW I LOVE the insight into PF2! That’s so cool to hear the similarities and differences! Keep the knowledge coming! You’re a great edition to the dungeon crew!! Thanks man!
I love the deadliness!!
@@TheDungeonCoach A pleasure, really. If I can help with anything regarding that system, I will gladly do it :)
Thanks.
Javier Morales I might have to take you up on that at some point!!
Auto Death Save Failures:
This is my proposed homebrew that extrapolates on your point:
if the damage you take is below half your max, it's 1 failure. If it's above half but below your max, that's 2. If it's your max or above, that's autokill (3 fails).
Generous, but I think it's reasonable.
For sure generous but TOTALLY makes sense! I love it... that speaks to me... and just feels right!
If I do a follow up video I’m gonna throw this in there, shout out for you for sure!
Not that generous if you keep the rule as written where melee attacks against an unconscious character have advantage and are automatic criticals if hit. So any enemy would not always cause 2 death saving throws failures on every melee hit but a decent foe would likely meet the half max threshold, causing 2 failures.
That's brilliant. I loved your idea.
Coach's take on it have the same logic behind mechanics, but I generally prefer to avoid fixed numbers for thresholds; in abstract systems like D&D I don't see like there's much to gain for memorizing values. "Half the max HP" is a single point on the scale that balances all possible outcomes.
All very good thoughts. I made a below 0 HP chart, which PCs roll on after being reduced below 0 HP. They add the damage that went past 0, and roll a d20. Maybe they live, and maybe they're grievously injured, but they're not necessarily dead; however, I can see how players more steeped in 5e may find this system more familiar. Also, the chart has turned out to be a little difficult to calibrate.
Sam Chafin can you send me the chart?? That sounds awesome!
Thedungeoncoach@gmail.com
@@TheDungeonCoach It's on the way.
Hey! So I just wanted to say that, while I might not agree with every perspective you have, I really like all the weird quirky rules and techniques you use. I would love to see a video on resurrection :)
Oudwin Exaclty! It’s all about soaking in everything you can from all perspectives and then use what you want to create the right feel at your table! You see the vision. Thanks Oudwin!
Resurrections are SO EPIC when you do em right! That’s one of the videos I’m looking forward to the most!
@@TheDungeonCoach yea I mean that is kind of what is cool about DnD I like seeing it like a bunch of optional rules (although I don't consider phb stuff optional but that is another discussion all together).
Btw, GL with growing the channel, the timing is probably right so I'm sure that will help. Still way more work than you will ever expect I bet :)
Oudwin I do the same thing with other systems too (hence the last rule too) but I’m all about taking it all in and modifying it to how I like.
Appreciate it! Been bustin my butt and have been surprised by the growth!
This video deserves more likes. So many great ideas to make combat and the possibility of having a character die more dramatic while still remaining balanced.
Ted Sroka Thanks man! Will come with time! I feel like one of the strengths of our channel, is there’s a bunch of salad videos, so once someone finds us with one, they got a bunch to check out!👌🏼
Recently found you through tiktok, and tbh this is one of the coolest channels for homebrew stuff. Definitely on par with dungeon dudes IMO. Im hooked
One thing my group does is use the exhaustion system. Every time a player character goes unconscious they get one level of exhaustion.
I have my own Homebrew for death and dying, but it's part of a larger, in depth HB that covers Hit Points, long & short rests, and makes Hit Dice a much bigger, much more valuable resource. But I like the energy you put into these homebrews. Hope you keep doing it.
Ixelhaine after how much I loved your Revivify fox I would love to see your Homebrew rules on that!! Or others
Just made a video (Comes our a week from tomorrow) on my short/ long rest homebrew system that uses hit dice more!
#6 secret saves
Imagine being a player, that sits with "entertain me" face, because even his saving throws on his turns, when he's unconscious, rolling DM. Behind the screen.
farmazonlost Ooooo I never even thought of that! So true! I would have totally added that in threes, great point
Stumbled upon this video today and instantly subbed. Love the home brew content you’re sharing. I’ve been running it where if a PC drops twice in the same combat encounter and are brought back up they take a lvl of exhaustion and then another level each time they drop and are brought back up after that. However, I am definitely gonna implement some of your home brew tactics into my game. Can’t wait to watch your other videos.
thenne22 Thanks man! Glad to have ya! This really has became a Homebrew channel and I couldn’t be more excited! Welcome to The Dungeon Crew!
I have heard of that rule and it was literally #8 on this list and since I’ve never ran it... I took it off. But I love the system!
I'm starting up a fairly lethal low magic game soon and I was in the market for some ways to make it feel like death matters. So helpful! You have earned a subscriber today!
Magister Ogamesh NICE! I love hearing comments like this, someone was looking for something specific and stumbled across me! Makes my day man! Thanks!!
I'd recommend not running this kind of game with the D&D rules system, but if you want to do that I would say that a great way to hammer home the seriousness of death is to, early on, like first or second week session, have an NPC the players love and have gotten attached to get brutally, suddenly, and unexpectedly killed. Especially if they fail to save this NPC and they die right in front of them, or if the players left the NPC somewhere and returned to find them killed by an enemy (double especially if they can blame themselves for it).
Benjamin Harl it can be scary to run other systems, but I definitely seen some cool ones out there with a totally different “feel”
@@TheDungeonCoach for sure, the first time you switch systems can be daunting, but for all those out there worrying about it, I promise it's way easier than you think it is! And can be so rewarding to try new ways and styles of playing with rules systems that are built for and support that new style! D&D is GREAT for a fairly narrow niche of fantasy roleplaying, but there are tons of other games out there that are way better for other narrow niches, like realistic, low-magic, and dangerous.
Thanks so much for all these home brews. I'm totally adding a handful into my campaign! One suggestion I'd like to add is that Stabilizing an unconscious player (through medicine check or spare the dying) prevents death save failures (instead of setting their HP to 0 and then they do nothing for the rest of combat). They continue to roll each turn until 3 successes. This works really well as long as it's in conjunction with persistent failures. I also let my players spend their hit die to regain health on a critical success instead of just going to 1 HP (it happens so rarely, it just makes that come back crit feel super awesome)
I love your vids and really take a lot of inspiration from them for my homebrews. The world I've got for my players is super deadly. I believe in giving players enough rope to hang themselves with. The way I'm running death saves is that when they are healed back up they get an exhaustion stack. I took the general model that you made for exhaustion, made it just a tad more punishing, so players really don't want that exhaustion stack, but it's still relatively well steered away from them totally dying. My exhaustion system:
1: -1 to all d20 rolls & spell save dc's / -5 move
(Per level)
2: no Reaction
3: only 1 action or bonus action / no extra atk
4: vulnerable to all damage
5: auto fail all saves
6: death
So yes, at level 5 exhaustion they're pretty fragile with only 1 action, -5 to d20 rolls, and -25 movement, no ability to save, and taking 2x damage from everything. But! It beats being dead dead. The rest is RaW but for damage affecting failed death saves, that I handle similar to the damage tier thing you had. Oh and a side mechanic is I created a condition to use called Pain. Pain gives disadvantage to dex saves and both breaks and prevents concentration. Several things such as certain painful toxins can induce Pain, but barring a Con save they are automatically in pain below 25% of their max health. So yeah, sucks to suck
I honestly love these death rules! 1 through 5 sound like the perfect way to make death feel tense and like the right level of a threat
Cinematic rules like these are always good.
Awesome video as always coach! It was an awesome scene that wouldn't have felt nearly as epic without the framework of the skill challenge. Thanks so much for the inspiration to bring skill challenges into my games!
Andre Ouimet Thank you for being an open minded DM to try new things and give your players this epic expletive! Great job!
AND.. I commented on the wrong video... technology is hard.. this was meant for your skill challenge follow up of course
Andre Ouimet what’s funny... I didn’t even realize this until you just now said something! I was so excited it was you and didn’t even notice!
I just sent this video to my two sets of players. I think these ideas are great!
You're so right that nearly dying should be a bigger deal.
Thank you for sharing!
xoxlyss thank you sharing, commenting and liking my stuff! It’s literally the best thing you can do to help out the channel! You rock!
The Dungeon Coach you rock!
My players were actually concerned at first. Lol one texted me back like "are you trying to kill us!?" But they understood (and agreed) once they watched the video. Lol
By RAW you roll death saving throws at the beginning of your turn. pg 197. "Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw..."
Nice list of some nice options for death saves. I thought you would have added the grinder rule too. :)
Old man advice to new DMs on killing PCs (makes for nice engagement 👍 )
I would mention (primary for new DMs) that a character death has a couple of effects that are not fully covered in rules. It can result in loss of players and even the campaign. Some meta points need to be considered by a new DM that has not seen these death save alternatives. (This is long but if you are a new DM enamored by messing with this read)
In a party of 4 and one goes down they usually loose 1/4 of there actions. This means if a person goes to save them from death then that person withdraws an additional 1/4 of the actions from the party. This effectively haves the party power. In 5e, the side with the most effective actions wins an encounter (again a general rule). This is why they made it so easy for PCs to get back in the fight. It prevents the lose of actions resulting in a death spiral where one person after another goes down and you TPK. (Being general here because party composition can make this better or impossibly worst)
There are things to mitigate this.
1)larger parties mean the loss of a person reacting to death hurts them less
2)Experienced players. Once a player knows how to do an effective nova or RP to prevent the death spiral
3)Start with high levels before changing things. It is important to know that higher level characters can handle more abuse and often can take being pounded on while helping a friend.
Also, realize that if you are going to do death save changes try your best to make sure they are good with it in practice. You will know if they are good with the changes often only if they see them. So if and when a person does buy the castle, try to avoid that wipe out. Watch and get your cues from your players. In game try to not let them all die that first time. Let them get away if they run. If they get super angry and if they can win enjoy the show. If they face a second downed player, invent a way to save them the TPK. Maybe have the bad guys retreat and the players find the next town, tower or homestead was ripped apart. Trust me they will want those Gnollls bad if they put together that these people payed for the party’s failure (also a great way to re-introduce the player with a new character). The important part, introduce your players to the in-game death without a TPK (Total Party Kill). That will keep your campaign alive.
The last thing add to this is make sure that you handle the non-game element of death with the player as much as the rules. Old guys like me need maybe 5 minutes and I am all ready to make a new character. Young and new players may need more. So make sure you stop the game for a break and make sure it all is okay with that player. Toast the fallen character and congratulate the guy that ran him. It sounds odd but make death - fun.
One last thing, if the player takes it hard take a quick break. They will have questions about how it happened or why and be honest. Don’t spoil the Champaign but it they ran there thief into 5 paladins and were chopped because he tried to carry off the princess - tell him that was sorta obviously a bad idea. But If they were trying to save the princess from the gnolls and just roll poorly or you rolled really well - explain it is the dice. But also remember to tell them they can start over with a new idea. Give them a bit of TLC for the first one.
Killing characters is actually easy (outside of hot points) but keeping the player takes a bit of work.
Leodous Kyron I have logged this post and will definitely pin it next to my how to handle death video! GREAT advice! Wow
Dude these changes are great :) most hombrew systems for death get rid of the death save and up from zero system. I'm happy to see one that keeps it, but manipulates it. Definitely using this. Thanks a bunch, Coach :)
Cameron F I try and keep the core and just fix the problems only instead of making things complicated! Thanks man!! 👍🏼😎
The game I've played the most had one of the best death systems I've read, so I'm sharing it in case you want some heavy homebrew. Stats, HP and damage worked differently, so numbers may be weird. Let's say you have a 14 CON character at 15 HP, fighting and alive. He takes 20 damage, reducing his HP to -5, but that -5 remains there, doesn't magically become a 0. He's now "at death's doors", unconscious, and start losing HP each turn. Any damage dealt to him lowers her HP even more, so he could be at -20, -40, etc. That way, if you want to bring a character back to combat you need to rise it to 1 HP from wherever it was, making healing spells equally useful for conscious and unconscious characters. When you're at death's doors, you roll to stabilize (just as a D&D death save), at a success you stop losing HP each turn, and at a failure you lose HP, with the amount rising with the total number of failures. Now, how do you die? Once your character reaches negative HP proportional to his CON he's dead. In that game it was 5xCON, but in D&D you could make it Proficiency x CON.
Your homebrew's though are perfect, and I will implement most of them in any D&D/Pathfinder game I run from now on. As a reminder, you haven't yet linked the resurrection video on this one.
PD: I'm not native and watch your videos with subtitles, but the ones generated automatically on this video are in dutch, do you have any idea why?
Miguel Rebollo wow I love that system! Negative health is definitely a mechanic to use and have to BRING THEM BACK. That’s cool!
And idk why the subtitles are German! I am getting someone right now to go through my videos and add subtitles though!
So that should help! Thanks for the heads up!
I feel the wound rules is cool, but you could make it simpler just say they get 1 level of exhaustion every time they get up from being knocked down.
The hit point range change at 0 hit points seemed like a good idea but a bit clunky so I would suggest merging this mechanic with something like the concentration checks mechanic. This is what I thought something like this would look like.
Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure, and you must make a Constitution saving throw to not gain an additional death saving throw failure. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
I use the Failed Saves Stay rule and each time a player comes back they get a point of exhaustion.
But additionally whenever players take a rest they have to spend a hit die to remove failed death saves and levels of exhaustion.
This really makes players watch out and makes them not rush into battle when they are low on health.
I love this concept. Implementing this from my groups next session
Good ideas. As an old grognard I greatly approve of your approach.
Andrew Kelly hahaha Grognard! I love it! I was originally worried about how different of an approach I have, but it seems to be working out!
I like the wounded 1,2,3 concept, but I'd probably use a stacking exhaustion system. They can go down more using this method, but... it utilizes the often unused exhaustion system AND... they suffer cumulative tangible penalties for the trauma their body is experiencing. Magic could be used to remove levels of exhaustion, but that's costing the party valuable resources.
Matthew Neisinger that was the 8th system on the list that I’ve always found fascinating, but I’ve never personally used it myself, so I didn’t wanna put it on there. But in a follow up video I’m for sure mentioning this exhaustion use, because it is definitely under used!
I had the same thought as well, about using exhaustion. I was thinking that with the wounded condition perhaps magical healing could be used to remove wounds as well using the tired system of so much damage for 1, 2, or 3 fails.
Joe Gulley this is going in my part 2 rules for combat for sure!
As a 4th edition DM, I use a different homebrew that blends 3.5 and 4th edition. The default 4th edition dying state is similar to 5th, based on 3 death saves. Unlike 5th though, successes don't normally do anything. Successes simply stop you from slipping away unless you roll a natural 20, which brings you back to life. I personally didn't like it because you could keep technically succeeding forever and never get back up, so I changed it by reintroducing 3.5's negative hit points.
If you go to 0 hp or fewer, you're unconscious and dying. You make death saves each turn. If you fail, you take 2 damage as you slowly bleed out. If you critically fail, you take d4+2 damage as your organs begin to fail and shut down. If you roll a success, you regain 3 hit points as your body tries to preserve itself, and if you roll a natural 20, you immediately become conscious with 0 hit points, and can spend a healing surge for a heroic comeback.
As you keep taking damage from failed death saves, you edge closer to the point of death. If you drop to your bloodied HP value or lower expressed as a negative, you're dead, and this can make each potential death wildly different. If you're barely below 0 when you drop, you may end up being able to fail more than 3 death saves and be OK. But if you're already badly wounded, and a crit takes you down, you could end up in a situation where you you're so close to your negative bloodied HP, that you will die if you fail even once. I like this because the players won't know how many death saves they can afford to fail, or if they'll be able to recover on their own, tending to make them act quickly. I tend to roll the dice myself to add to the suspense of not knowing how negative their hit points have gotten.
In terms of healing, I change the RAW so that healing effects must heal through the negative hit points before they apply actual healing, so there's none of this "Cure Minor Wounds to get back up" shenanigans. And I allow Heal checks to stabilise the player (no more death saves - they're just down and neither getting better or worse unless they take damage), or give advantage on their next death saving throw. I do like the variants you mentioned so I think I will start allowing them if players ask to do something like that.
As the homebrew guy that you are, I thought you might find an older edition hybrid homebrew interesting.
Congrats on 1000 subscribers!
taeurus YEEEEAAAAAAA!!!! Thanks man! We did it!!
@@TheDungeonCoach and it is ONLY the beginning! We are not even rolling for initiative yet so let's get the battle for the top going!
taeurus session 0 baby! We’re just getting started!!
What I do :
- When a character falls to 0hp, at his turn he will make a death saving throw in a little box so that no one sees the result, but the box stays there in front of him (no dice fudging is possible).
- When there are 3 boxes, the player will continue to make death savings.
- Same after 4 boxes.
- After 5 boxes, he met his fate.
- If someone tries to heal him when there are 3-4-5 boxes, they will know if the character is dead or not by looking at the dices in the boxes. A lot of suspense there.
Of course, if the character is hurt by an enemy when he's at 0hp, that will add a failure after the last box (a red or black box for example).
This is awesome! Hopefully my players all agree to it. (Some players have a RAW tendency and aren’t as open minded to trying out new house rules)
Paul Cave I had a player like that in my campaign that came around to the dark side (creative side lol) thanks man! Send em the video and see if they buy into the hype 😄
I don't understand that mindset at all! The best things about TTRPGs is that they are flexible and customizable! Is it just a comfort thing? Or lack of creativity?
Good luck seducing them to the creative side!
Benjamin Harl hahah I know right “rules are just a recommendation” right!? And I can never decide if the “creative side” is the light side or the dark side... I’m gonna go with dark... because I’ve always been a sith fan boy!
@@TheDungeonCoach nah, both the Sith and the Jedi are chumps who deal in absolutes! 😂 Nothing is entirely light or dark, so I would call this creative side the "personalized" side, if only to avoid "shades of grey" references.
I’m definitely using some of these rules! I think it’s a much more fun and fair alternative to monsters intentionally killing unconscious character to prevent Healing Word Wack-a-mole.
I would change the #2 to a threshold based on player's HP. It makes more sense and is more personal, but may be a little bit hard to manage.
Another great video … Thanks
Phillip Bush says the guy who formatted the text document! As usual, you rock man!
Great stuff, I plan to use it!
Outer Panda awesome! Glad to hear it!
p.s. I love your name!!! Haha
I thought of the same system. When I first played I was like "so my life are these three dots not my hp?" I would add reseting hp and capping it per tier and having hp be like stamina points
JON THOMPSON Oooo nice! Yea I felt the same way about the death system and that it felt strange to me! I like your fix too!
My way seems simpler. Make even one death save throw, then get healed, you suffer a level of exhaustion. If you are revived from dead dead, your CON drops by one point, perminatly.
Michael Robinson that was actually #8 on the list! But I haven’t used the system so I cut it for time. I LOVE that system though and might throw it in to a combat video I do! Love the simplicity AND using exhaustion more!
These are some real fantastic advices, your video just keep getting better! And by the way, congratulations for hitting those 1000 subscriptions!
Marco Pagnini Yeeaaaaaa! Thanks man, I’m really trying here! I knew this was a big topic to I spent a lot of time making the script for this video and getting it clear and concise!
Love the videos, but all I could think of after the intro was "Welcome to the Dungeon Coach, home of the Dungeon Coach, can I take your order?" Did I mention I love the videos?
Congratulations on 1000+
blakscot thank you! I was so excited! I didn’t know that this video alone would jump 200+
Y’all must love killing players!! 😈😇
Im that 1000 sub. Grats!
Meso Meso Really??? Did you see 999 and then click it??? YOU ROCK MESO MESO!!! I’m so pumped! Thank you, for real!
@@TheDungeonCoach No i clicked it because the content was good.
Meso Meso Ha! Damn thanks man! Appreciate that! Now it’s time to set another goal!
10k before the end of the year!
How would you feel about increasing the death save DC every time you go down? For example, the first time you ever go down it's the regular DC 10, but the second time it's 11, then 12, etc. And every time you take a long rest the DC decreases by 1 until its back to 10.
WOLF7356 o for sure! That’s what I say in the video too! I have the DC go up by 2 for each death! Love it!
This is great. Regarding #2, I think the number ranges you choose area a tad arbitrary, though. Tie the levels to the character's HP. Great content!
jeffrey bucklew I agree, I implemented it around 100ish health so 25 and 50 felt right, but I DEFINITIVELY agree about scaling it!
I've used the secret death saves before, it certainly ratchets up the tension. I have to admit though, rolling a natural 1 and having the player die quickly was rough especially since the cleric chose not to heal her that right l round. However, it made for a powerful moment in the campaign, and the next time someone got dropped in a combat they rushed to get that character back up.
RAW you do make death saves at the start of your turn.
Find out this channel today, so glad, great content!
Lee Brandon I’m trying here! Glad ya found me! Welcome to the Dungeon Crew!
Hit points and actual damage should be entirely separate from each other. Hit points should be tryhard points, perhaps even fuel for special abilities per Earthdawn, while wounds should be a serious problem. (Also resolves the issue of only murderhobo groups having apostle-tier healing miracles on demand: Hit point restoration becomes energy restoration, not meat-point recovery.)
Albert Norman WOW that is a very creative and drastically different system! I’ve never heard of that, that’s awesome! The system is called Earthdawn??
@@TheDungeonCoach, Earthdawn doesn't quite do what I'd like, but it did introduce to me the concept of using hit points to fuel abilities. Sadly, it's very awkwardly organized and explained, so it never managed to attain much popularity compared to systems like D&D and White Wolf.
What I'd really like to see is a 'quick hp' mechanic that refills every short rest (or ten-minute turn in pre-4e); various stress tracks that feed into a 'strain' penalty mechanic, ranging from being overburdened to exhaustion to bruising to desperate overexertion to avoid damage; and then a wound mechanic that combines the best features of Ars Magica 4th and 5th editions.
The 'reduced to 0 hit points' mini-article in the 1e DMG on page 82 describes some pretty severe consequences for getting injured like that, which can't be magically remedied by less than a Heal spell. While I don't want to jump to that level of disability for a relatively light injury, I like the idea that getting actually wounded is an issue that PCs will have to handle rather than ignore.
It would also make 'bad touch' effects like poison, fire, electricity, etc., less of a 'save or suck' mechanic. If you can use your quick hp to soak the damage (i.e., you don't actually take damage, you just had to exert yourself to dodge just enough), you avoid the special effect and lose 1d6 extra hp to represent the exertion to ensure a clean miss. If you run out of quick hp, which will happen faster because you've had to be extra careful to avoid the poisoned-or-whatever blade, then the next successful attack will allow the 'bad touch' property to take full effect on your character. Massive pain and disfiguring burns for fire, paralysis for tazering, whatever the poison effects are (quick countdown to death, immediate paralysis, hallucinations, etc.), and so on.
Albert Norman wow that’s a cool concept you have going there! Definitely gives that feel you’re looking for. I have a video on short and long rests that the 10 min rest reminded me of that could help
How about needing a spell like a restoration as a main way of recovering failed saves. Would make clerics really needed.
I roll death saves for my players in secret and they enjoy it way more than actually knowing the results immediately.
I really like your idea of getting back up with 1 HP after three successes, going to use it from now on!
In my games when a character goes down to 0 HP first time in a day, nothing special happens. When that happens again during the same day, they also get one exhaustion and the same thing happens every time they go down until they start healing those exhaustions with a long rest or die from exhaustion. This makes exhaustion actually come up during gameplay. Characters are free to heal each other as many times as they want with Healing Words, but when thos exhaustion points start racking up.... maybe you should actually get out of there and get cover! Your wound system is really similar, I need to think about which one to use...
Rampe I love bringing in exhaustion too! That sounds fun! I bet the players go nuts once you start rolling haha! Glad I could add in the inspirational heroic recovery moment 👍🏼
On the second down, good thinking!
You have a lot of interesting ideas and methods.
I like your fixed death saves but I have recently been using the following and my group has already begun to treat death and death save much more seriously. Credit where Credit is due I watch a lot of You Tube DM stuff and I believe this idea originated from the Dungeon Dudes, with some minor changes on my part.
Exhaustion:
A character gains 1 level of Exhaustion when they suffer any of the following effects:
- Take a Critical Hit
- Drop to Zero and are not killed outright.
- Fail a Death Save by 5 or more
Akashambatwa Miller YES! This was literally #8 on my list but had to chop it for time! I LOVE that system too! And would totally love that!
@@TheDungeonCoach - Exhaustion + wounded condition might be to much for a tier 1 or 2 game or campaign. but either gets the job done. Thanks again for yet another great video.
I love this whole system (except for the hidden rolls), but it might be a bit too brutal for my family game (my wife, daughters, and a few family friends). Both of my daughters have lost a character with the RAW death rules, and we've also lost a few notable NPCs over the past four years. My younger daughter is very emotionally sensitive, and each time someone dies she'll be in tears for at least an hour!
But my other games with just adults? I'm definitely using this system!
CrownRock1 awesome! That’s so cool that your daughters are experiencing that emotional spectrum thought D&D... so good!
And I’m 100% with you on hidden rolls, I tried it out but never have consistently used it
@@TheDungeonCoach Yeah, I've never used it, but had a DM in an online game do hidden rolls for a lot of skill checks. I like how it eliminated metagaming, but it ended up being more frustrating than anything.
I use a homebrew rule of when someone gets revived from making death saves they suffer one level of exhaustion. I guess it would kind of be like the wounded condition except it affects them while they’re conscious
I surely would use the wounded condition, but I feel it "unrealistic" that someone who almost died, can start to fight again without any consequence. I think the "wound 1" also apply to the rolls like a -2; a "wound 2" like a -4.
Mirko Rustici there’s always the off set excuse of “adrenaline” but I can totally agree with a -2 and -4
I’d even make it a -2, and -5 kind of how cover works
Love the idea!
Congratulations! You win a subs!
Just thought about this. Never used it.
One of the things that I don´t feel makes sense is the "I´ll heal him only for 1 hitpoint" or "I give him 1 goodberry" after that person already went unconscious for like the third or fourth time. I find the exhaustion rule works well, but another option is increasing the amount of healing needed to bring someone backup. First time unconscious, any healing would do. Second time, yo need to heal that person for at least 5 hitpoints. Third time, 10 Hitpoints. And so on... It resets on a long rest. :)
A lot of your homebrews emphasize making deaths harder for the players. Here's a homebrew idea to give them a little relief: What if after 2 successful death saving throws, they "stabalize" and remain unconscious? They are still prone and susceptible to an attack, but they have the option to stop making death saving throws at this point. It could simulate taking a risk to get back on your feet to help the other players fight, but at the risk of hitting the last failed death save. It also lengthens the time they remain unconscious.
my rule is simple, if you reach 0 hp, you roll at the start of your turn, you get a 20, you get an hp and can take your turn starting prone, if you get healed normal rules but my changes are here:
1) you don't get your death save reset till after a short rest. you need a breather before you can do that again.
2) you get a level of exhaustion. This is a harsh one, but it's rough going down and standing up, a level of exhaustion makes sense, and 6 times would likely kill you IRL. This rule does lead into my rule of using a hit die to remove a level of exhaustion on a short rest.
GunnarWahl I love this house rule and was literally #8 on this list !!! But I have never personally ran it like that!!!
It’s HUGE!!! Gonna use it in the flow
@@TheDungeonCoach it's a lot like the wound thing, but while you get 6 vs 3, it's actually a death spiral, as your character gets worse and worse the more exhaustion they get. However it I've never got complaints at my table over it.
GunnarWahl yea because I feel like it’s fair and accurate, you would be worse off than before!
As I explain my knowledge base and come acroosss new ideas I prefer to not spring big changes all the time. sincemy game is an on goinf game i runa session 0 or 0.2, 0.3 etc at the start of each Tier of play ( We advance by milestone) . Thus changes to rules about death , health and healing can be easily explains as a mean of man taining tension as power levels rise.
I love the Auto death Saves rule and I think I will introduce it itno my current campaing once we move to Tier 3. I love the auto fail homebrew you have and I tyhink i have a neat adaption that will work with my group and i wanted to share it with you.
2. Auto Death Save Fails
Tier 1: 1 Fail (1 - 10) 2 Fail 10-20) 3 Fail (20 & Above)
Tier 2: 1 Fail (1 - 20) 2 Fail (20-40) 3 Fail (40 & Above)
Tier 3: 1 Fail (1 - 30) 2 Fail (30-60) 3 Fail (60 & Above)
Tier 4: 1 Fail (1 - 40) 2 Fail (40-80) 3 Fail (80 & Above)
- Additionally at Tier 3 & 4 any damage over max HP would qualify as 3 failures
Nr 3. They can spend an action to stabalize using a dc10 medicine check aswell. Automatic success if using healers kit
Going back to this video, #6 Secret Death Saves with your number #4 Secret d20 Rolls. Player rolls into a skull bowl for just the GM to see. Now that would add an extra flair.
This is really good. Like I mean, really good.
Keith Foyston Thanks! This was a big video topic for me, I spent a lot of time writing the script since this is such a HUGE topic. Glad you liked it!
@@TheDungeonCoach Do you memorise the lines or something? I couldn't detect any hint of a teleprompter! Keep up the great work coach!
Keith Foyston Haha the “behind the scenes” is I have a laptop open just under my camera and I memorize 1-3 sentences at a time and say it. Takes me MULTIPLE takes though so editing takes a while, but I’m getting better at it! I’ve been thinking about getting a teleprompter though to help
IDEA: Last Dance rule: Allow PCs at 0 HP to trade death saves for extra attacks, at the cost of being _dead_ once they run out.
The one i use is to balance the system.
i use the under half max hp, 1 fail over half 2 fails and max hp 3 fails system. but i also flip it.
when you are healed.
under a 1/8 max hp. 1 sucess.
over 1/8 max hp. 2 sucess.
over 1/4 max hp. 3 sucess.
after 3 sucess you regain the amount that person healed you for halfed.
it makes it harder for clerics and paladin to just go. your good now.
Courtney The coder oh I see that! That also would prevent from the whack-a-mole yo-yo up-and-down’s! Nice!
@@TheDungeonCoach Also makes sorcs with healing word a life saver.
Courtney The coder true!!!
I went simple with it. I give them 4 death saves between long rests. That's it, 4 and you're dead. They pay a lot more attention now to how many saves they have left and are reluctant to take risks when they've gone down once already.
I’m only 2 minutes into the video and I can already tell the changes he’s gonna make will absolutely shit all over grave cleric
For the auto death save fails, I feel like they should be 50%, 100%, and 150% max health for each level.
Additionally, if you already have 1 death save fail, you shouldn't be able to gain another +1, only a +2/+3. This would make it so being swarmed by a group of 3 goblins all dealing 10 damage won't immediately kill you because you get +1,+1,+1 failed death saves
Here's what I propose (haven't playtested it yet): every point of damage below 0 HP reduces your Max HP until you take a long rest. Obviously when Max HP = 0, you die. Wanna Lay on Hands for 1 HP? Sure but next attack your teammate's HP is gonna drop significantly
As the second melee character in my 7 PC party (next to Totem Bear barb), I can tell you that keeping death saves really sucks. We tried this rule bc of the party size. But often the melee PC's will be the easiest targets, and when you're within the AoE cross fire of all the ranged PC's, you're just f*cked and reliant on the cleric's initiative to keep you from dying. It would simply mean I would have to chicken out and do nothing (low Dex...). It didn't fix the problem in any case.
I like the wounded 123 idea btw, I might consider that in the games I run.
I am considering using negative HP. This is another way to reduce the "bonus action healing jump up" effect. It makes going down pretty scary, as you need some big healing to get back from a good hit.
I also like the stand back up after 3 successes however, maybe you could let players keep rolling for a 20 until they make it.
Currently, I play DMG gritty realism with LR taking 24 hours, SR 8h. Also my take on DMG massive damage where there is a DC 15 CON save 33% risk of falling unconscious for 1d10 min, 33% 1 turn disadvantage on attacks and 33% 1 turn stun. I'd need to think if I want to integrate some of these rules. I'm pretty content with how it is now
Wow it sounds like you really have found a good balance for the FEEL you want at your table! That’s what this is for me, a base point for me to adapt from, if I ever had 7 players... wow that’s a lot, I’d probably have to tweak somethings lol
Negative HP has always intrigued me too btw! I’m with ya!
One of my players is always late but i want to avoid violence as solution. I was thinking i could kidnap him, keep him in my basement and let him out for game day so that he doesn't keep us waiting. I need some tips, could you do a video about "how to kidnap your players"? Thanks man
Disagio World I got you! I would chain him down there and set up the D&D table there too! So he can still be chained up while you play! You know... so he doesn’t run away mid session...
lol! I did a campaign start video where I talked about kidnapping players... I should do a video on just that...
I love these so much, but my players are less into the high stress combat, sadly.
How would you recommend introducing a change to deaths mid-campaign? We had our first death a few sessions ago and at first the other players were really concerned but then the dead player explained “I’m not dead, yet” and it took the intensity out of the moment. I agree that falling to 0 hit points should be a big deal. Before watching this video, I had considered having the players roll on an injury table for a more lingering effect once they revive. We’re picking up tonight mid boss fight so I’d like to have something ready to go since I know one player has a single hit point. Thoughts?
midnightwaps ahhhh Yea I hate that, drops the intensity out when that happens. Here’s what I’d do. Talk to the players about the “feel” being off and why you are wanting to add a Homebrew rule.
Then explain what you want to do and see if they like it/ what they think. Give them a option and y’all can tweak it from there!
I would have death saving throws not reset until a short rest and large blows can fail more death saves. Basically rules 1 and 2
But I’d also follow it up with giving them #4 too to help them out!
I’m not a huge fan of most injury tables and am working on a Homebrew one myself that I want to try out, but I’d be careful with that.
You could also do another rule where you gain a stack of exhaustion if you fall unconscious too, but I’ve not tried that one!
Honestly send them this video and see what they say... that could be a good starting point for the conversation
I wouldn't be surprised if you've already implemented something similar, but my brain is starting to tinker with mechanics that use the wounded condition. Ie. A class feature or feats that actually give a benefit for being wounded - the true grit style character who hits harder the closer they are to death, or whose magic is fueled by pain.
Definitely buried the competition on similar content there Coach. Raised the bar for other content creators to realize they have been em-bodying a lack of progression in this important but looked over area of the game.
taeurus Dude that’s a great compliment! Wow, thank you bro! I’m trying my hardest to stand out in this competitive RUclips scene! Appreciate you noticing!!
@@TheDungeonCoach well keep doing those quirky, awesome intros and pieces of content and we'll be seeing you in trending in no time!
taeurus trying to have better thumbnails and intros! Glad you noticed!
The Dungeon Coach , I think your thumbnails are top notch 👌 having an index of topics in the video is also a great idea
Fushi Con I appreciate it! When I started doing it y’all said you liked it, I think it helps people have a structured flow 👍🏼
Not sure if this is just my viewing experience today - but the audio sounds a bit off... distant.
Love the content as usual, just thought you'd like feedback in case there might be technical issues or changes to be made.
Or perhaps, it was just me and my 'puter today.
Here’s a crazy homebrew rule: When your character runs out of hit points, you tear the sheet in two, then go home and tell your mama her little boy is a failure.
Jesus. Closing in on 40 years of D&D....discussions of this kind seem to me like “Alternative ways to deal with Pac-Man getting killed by ghosts....”
Just roll 3d6 down the line and problem solved in 15 seconds.
I like the idea of the damage threshold but I think that that threshold should scale as the game goes on so maybe something like. More than 1/4 of health 1 failed save more than 1/3 two failed saves more than 1/2 health failed save
JoJo Kaler I totally agree, I say in the video you could try thresholds of 10/20 instead of 25/50... but I love the idea of basing it off general max health of the party (I wouldn’t do a individual basis though) great idea!!
I do get value, I subscribe
Just want you to know that the wounded condition tracking on your hand at 11:53 was greatly appreciated 😂 Do you edit all these yourself??
Fushi Con Hahahaha YES thanks man! I put a lot into editing every video and try and get better and better, so the fact that you noticed that is HUGE!! Thanks man
@@TheDungeonCoach I thought that was a fun little touch of editing too. 👌
Benjamin Harl I’ve been working on my editing skills, taking more time, but I feel like it’s worth it!
@@TheDungeonCoach it's definitely looking better! Damn good work, my man!
Hey, just want to say I love all these options for spicing up death saving throws and making things more dramatic and intense! I do have a question concerning Heroic Recovery though:
How does this work with things like Spare the Dying or Healer’s Kits that automatically stabilize the player? Do they just continue to roll saves to see if they tally the three successes to come back up to 1 hp without counting their fails?
I would love to implement this in my game, and I’m just wondering how you would rule that!
me personaly, I'd fix the auto death saving throws to better follow RAW, considering that there is already an instant death rule, where if you take atleast twice your max hp in a single turn, you die instently.
so I'd say if you take dammage less then your max hp, 1 Death Failure,
if you take atleast equal to your max hp, 2 death failures,
and if you take dammage atleast equal to twice your max hp, 3 failures, resulting in instent death no matter what.
but thats just my personal take, and understand if others wouldn't follow this recomandation, but would rather follow yours, (you Included...)
Hey, just so you know having Death Saves at the beginning of your turn is NOT Homebrew.
This is RAW, players handbook pg. 197
"Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw..."
Because this happens at the beginning of your turn, the subsequent rule where rolling a nat 20 regains 1 hit point means that although you are still prone, you are now conscious and can take your full turn as you regain consciousness.
ofc since I don't like my players attacking and restabilizing their stable ally over and over to give them more chances to make a nat 20 death save after combat (so they don't have to wait the 1d4 hours), I usually just let them make a "special death save" with a successful medicine check on the downed ally. There is no failure condition, but it gives an opportunity for a nat 20 to regain 1 hit point. (though I might want to think about incorporating one of your rules to make that initial attack unwise instead, but I think taking this rule away would be pretty unfair)
Jacob G yea I totally see that now, never knew till after I made this, crazy how you can think a RAW rule is a certain way for years and not know haha
And that sounds totally balanced, yea giving that player a chance to snap out of it can lead to some cool epic moments!
I just end running the pointy hat adventure in the feywild, and since My players managed to flee the conflict and left the Bbeg alive, but hurt. I will link the result of that campaing to the curse of Strad campaing. If they are OK it will be with gestald rules, and some of these rules.
Bought your works on DM Guild! Love them!
An idea regarding #2, I saw you already use the bloody condition, so how about linking the death save threshold to a characters max hp. If the damage is less than 1/2 their Max hp they take 1 failure. If the damage is greater than 1/2 their Max hp they take 2 failure. And there is already a rule saying if you take damage equal to greater than your max hp you die instantly, the same as 3 failures.
Thechaoticmagnet Ooooooo linking it to the bloodied condition is BRILLIANT! As long as each player knew their number (could update as they level) that’s pretty smooth.
I chose numbers based on the group... but a wizard would die faster from a big blow than a beefy barbarian would... so I love it! DONE!
@@TheDungeonCoach I saw a post on reddit, you have good thumbnails to attract attention. You are now one subscriber closer to 1000. Keep it up.
Thechaoticmagnet thanks man! I have been REALLY working on my thumbnails and intros, so the fact that you said that feels real good! Thank you!
I like the idea of a player getting back up with 1hp after 3 successes, but how would you handle non lethal knockouts? I'm building a monk who's re-flavored as a boxer. He only uses unarmed strikes and always goes for nonlethal.
Would you consider using levels of exsaustion, in place of the wounded condition.
Do you differentiate between #1 and #7? video was a little confusing on that. they seem like the same thing. Does "wounded" go away after a certain amount of time in pathfinder or something?
quazarthemad so it’s all about if getting a wound comes from 1. Failing a death save, OR 2. getting knocked unconscious and coming back
That’s the difference and if you combine both it would be very brutal lol
And idk about pathfinder, but I have 1 reset on a long rest 👌🏼
Let me know if I need to clarify further!
Do a video on how u can raise stautes
Do you still incorporate the instant death if the damage equals or exceeds your hit point total?
8:00 Ummm that's RAW. You make your Death Save at the start of the turn and if you revive, then you get your turn normally.